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Science Has a Sexual Assault Problem

cold fjord writes: Phys.org reports, "The life sciences have come under fire recently with a study published in PLOS ONE that investigated the level of sexual harassment and sexual assault of trainees in academic fieldwork environments. The study found 71% of women and 41% of men respondents experienced sexual harassment, while 26% of women and 6% of men reported experiencing sexual assault. The research team also found that within the hierarchy of academic field sites surveyed, the majority of incidents were perpetrated by peers and supervisors. The New York Times notes, "Most of these women encountered this abuse very early in their careers, as trainees. The travel inherent to scientific fieldwork increases vulnerability as one struggles to work within unfamiliar and unpredictable conditions."

460 comments

  1. Is there a single field that doesn't? by Rinikusu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can't think of a single profession which doesn't seem to have a "problem." Makes one wonder.

    --
    If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    1. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Chelloveck · · Score: 5, Funny

      I can't think of a single profession which doesn't seem to have a "problem." Makes one wonder.

      It tells me that the definitions are too broad to be useful. Oh, crap, I said "broad". Now I'm guilty too!

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    2. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Women regularly use their sexuality in the workplace for their gain. Watch how the young/attractive colleagues act around those in positions of power, compared to other female or lower grade staff, especially when they want something. E.g. time off when shit is hitting the fan, or when vacation days are all blocked off due to lack of staff. They're conditioned early on to use it for their advantage, but don't see the hypocrisy of their position.

    3. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Porn industry?

    4. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Jawnn · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I can't think of a single profession which doesn't seem to have a "problem." Makes one wonder.

      Makes you wonder what, exactly? That this is not a "problem", because "everybody's doing it?" WTF? Look pal, the "problem" is narrow-minded, clueless misogynist views like that.

    5. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Extinct professions are probably the only ones who technically qualify: I don't think there is any sexual harassment or sexual assault of dodo hunters.
      We have seen plenty of reports of problems in various professions. I would love to see the statistics compiled together and compared.

    6. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by NotSanguine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can't think of a single profession which doesn't seem to have a "problem." Makes one wonder.

      Makes you wonder what, exactly? That this is not a "problem", because "everybody's doing it?" WTF? Look pal, the "problem" is narrow-minded, clueless misogynist views like that.

      Wow! Just wow! I was thinking the same thing myself, except I put "this is a societal problem, not one just in the academic community," after 'Makes one wonder'. Way to go in projecting your fears and negativity on others.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    7. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      No, it's the fucking denialism makes you guilty.

      "Oh they must be mismeasuring, because the results challenge my assumptions!" is not a hallmark of rationalism.

    8. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations! That's exactly the response that the NFL took.

      Check out any si.com - the story lines are still raging, and the commissioner may lose his job.

    9. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well yes, you are, guilty of deflecting criticism by claiming the definitions are too broad.

      That's a common defensive reaction.

    10. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2

      Hey!

      Us handsome dudes get extra rewards too. Just because we look so fucking good.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    11. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is anecdotal, but a friend works in academia and hears about grad students being coerced. They put up with it because reporting their advisor would undo everything they've been working for years on, and they're so close to the end the personal cost is just too high.

      Some professions like accounting require you to intern at one company. It's possible dropping out of that mid-program could be as much of a setback.

      Whereas if you have a harassing boss in an office job, you can turn them in and find another job. If your resume shows you worked at multiple companies, I don't think anyone would bat an eye.

    12. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Way to go in projecting your fears and negativity on others.

      The GP didn't do that. They weren't responding to you. That evidence is an example of you projecting.

    13. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There was some feminazi that went on a tear because some guy had the audacity to hit on her. Then she whined when the corresponding community luminaries pointed out that she was being a hysterical idiot. The whole situation was portrayed as proof that "X community is mysoginistic".

      It was all a load of mindless victimology.

      There can be a wide gap between how a bunch of extremist crusaders define a term and how the rest of us define it.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    14. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mean+pun · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your description certainly reads like calm and objective description of the situation.

    15. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Who?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    16. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by RatBastard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If he's talking about "Elevatorgate", then he's accurate, even if he's not calm about it.

      --
      Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
    17. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 0, Troll

      "There was some feminazi that went on a tear"

      "It was all a load of mindless victimology."

      Oh yeah, you sound totally informed about whatever thing you're talking about. Not like you're talking out your ass at all. Yep, just some feminazi. No particular person, that'd make you accountable for your claim.

      What really gets me is how slashdot eats up shit like this, and only when it comes to feminism.

    18. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by RatBastard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Makes you wonder what, exactly?"

      That this is a widespread social problem and not something restricted to just the nerdy professions. Project much?

      Insightful, my ass.

      --
      Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
    19. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by ganjadude · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh, crap, I said "broad". Now I'm guilty too!

      you joke but you are probably correct here. The issue is not that 71% of all women are being sexually assaulted. Its that 71% of all women "feel assaulted" Somehow in the past 40 years what someones feelings are trump what the actual actions are.

      Saying something sexual, is NOT sexual assault.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    20. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by ganjadude · · Score: 2

      well, he kan reed, so who knows

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    21. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You've got it.

      There are clear and exact boundaries accepted by rational and sane people. Hitting or flirting on someone - especially a peer, is not harassment. Some "feminists" think it is.

      Hitting on a subordinate, especially a direct report, is not acceptable.
      Hitting on someone AFTER they ask you to stop crosses the line into harassment.

      It's that simple.

    22. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You haven't watched enough.

      Look for girls with glassed over eyes. ie drugged so they'd bend over.

    23. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is funny 'cause it's true and flies in the face of what ultra-conservatives think.

    24. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Went on a tear" = "spent 20 seconds of an 8 minute youtube video talking about it"
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    25. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by An+Ominous+Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, because if that is what the poster was referencing, "going on a tear" was actually saying "guys, don't do that", with the context being: sexual propositioning a stranger in an enclosed space in a foreign country at 4 AM after having just listened to the person you're propositioning give a presentation that included discussion on how the constant sexual propositions she received at these conferences made her uncomfortable.

      THAT in turn led to her receiving a never-ending wave of abuse, including rape and death threats, and including having one of the most prominent male voices in the movement insultingly state that women in the west shouldn't complain about sexism because women in Islamic countries have it a lot worse.

      It was after all THAT, that she, quite rightly, started going on a tear.

    26. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know, this has some truth to it. The root of the problem though, is that this kind of crap from supervises is tolerated. It's a problem with permanent-contract and tenure culture just as much, because the offenders cannot be dealt with or fired with cause as they should.

      I do sympathize with people who are in such vulnerable positions. I only wish they operated like where I work - where if anyone tried this kind of thing they'd simply get fired, as they should.

    27. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mythosaz · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, here's the actual questions:

      32. Have you ever personally experienced inappropriate or sexual remarks, comments about physical beauty, cognitive sex differences, or other jokes, at an anthropological field site? (If you have had more than one experience, the most notable to you.)

      The section is entitled Sexual harassment and assault so you would hope people would be contextually aware that "or other jokes" means of a sexual nature. But it's still a badly worded question. I further assume the reader is supposed to parse "inappropriate or sexual" as prefixes for the other items, but we live in a tightly wound panties world when comments about physical beauty are harassment.

      39. Have you ever experienced physical sexual harassment, unwanted sexual contact, or sexual contact in which you could not or did not give consent or felt it would be unsafe to fight back or not give your consent at an anthropological field site? (If you have had more than one experience, the most notable to you.)

      The problem, again, is a terribly worded question. Are we to again assume physical should extend through the commas? Or is unwanted sexual contact just a fat girl asking a handsome dude to get a date after the working day is done. Is all physical contact unwanted sexual contact now?

      The math for their statistical distributions is fine.

      Their questions suck, lack good wording, and lack examples. [Not limited to but including... ...excluding FOO, but not limited to BAR.]

    28. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by narcc · · Score: 0

      "Oh they must be mismeasuring, because the results challenge my assumptions!" is not a hallmark of rationalism.

      That's flamebait now? WTF Slashdot!?

    29. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by dkman · · Score: 2

      I can think of one, and it's the oldest profession.

      --
      I refuse to sign
    30. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by dkman · · Score: 2

      Saying something sexual, is NOT sexual assault.

      That was before the PC revolution, and I'm not talking about computers here.

      --
      I refuse to sign
    31. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      There's simply no shortage of willing participants for adult film actresses. Producers don't need to drug them. They are, after all, producing and distributing a video record of their event -- which seems unwise.

      Do some willing adult film actresses use drugs, appear on camera under the influence, or even produce drug-themed adult films? Absolutely.

    32. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, just an ideologue.

    33. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by jedidiah · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yes. That was Dawkins that rightfully noted that you lot are complaining about 1st world non-problems.

      You will take a situation that's not the least bit sinister and distort it until seems to be something entirely else.

      That's why no one can trust any stories like these.

      Radical feminists have hijacked the debate and the language.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    34. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by NotSanguine · · Score: 2

      > Way to go in projecting your fears and negativity on others.

      The GP didn't do that. They weren't responding to you. That evidence is an example of you projecting.

      The OP (rinukuzu) made an excellent observation -- that this is not limited to a single profession. The obvious implication is that this is a problem with our whole society, yet Jawnn assumed the GP was somehow trying to claim the problem doesn't exist. That isn't supported by what was posted.

      Yes, I know Jawnn wasn't responding to me -- I hadn't posted anything. I was just struck by the completely negative tone, with Jawnn making a failrly obvious faulty assumptions about what the OP said.

      I'm not sure what I'm projecting. I say there's a big problem with violence against women and it's not limited to academia.

      What I don't support is poor reading comprehension. Both you and Jawnn seem to have that in spades. Geez Louise! get a grip.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    35. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

      That this is a widespread social problem and not something restricted to just the nerdy professions. Project much?

      That's what I was trying to figure out how to say. Thanks for being more eloquent than I. Though, at the same time, there is the issue of the scare quotes around the word "problem" in the OP's post.

      I think that while your statement about this problem not being isolated to nerd communities is dead-on and an important point, I also think it is reasonable to interpret OP's post in the way Jawnn did.

      And, perhaps most importantly, it seems like the adversarial thing (yours and Jawnn's) isn't going to help any of this. It's not going to help Jawnn understand that nerds aren't the bad guys (though there are bad guys among nerds), and it won't help Rinikusu (OP) accept that there is a problem overall.

      Feminists and nerds should be working together. Nerds have been subject to prejudicial sterotyping, too. That should (and I think does) make us more understanding of the problem, not less. Instead of sniping at each other, let's bury our hatchets and work the problem.

    36. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      "Makes you wonder what, exactly?"

      That this is a widespread social problem and not something restricted to just the nerdy professions. Project much?

      Insightful, my ass.

      Thank you. Apparenlty, there aren't enough people who disagree with Jawnn, so he or she needs to attack someone who is making a reasonable and supportable claim which, based on Jawnn's rant, is in full support of what they believe. Sigh.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    37. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so bitter .. u still no have girlfriend bro?

    38. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Kielistic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually Slashdot is like that about everything. What really gets to some on Slashdot is how people like you act all sanctimonious and incredulous when people disagree about something, and only when it comes to feminism.

    39. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't think of a single city that doesn't seem to have "crime". Makes one wonder.

    40. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, women must be protected, which is why they shouldn't be hired.

    41. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I remember there was a similar study about high school (back when I was there). Things like mooning and even wedgies (presumably because that involves grabbing underwear?) were considered sexual harassment. By that definition 100% of the student body at my high school had been sexually harassed.

    42. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Princeofcups · · Score: 0, Troll

      you joke but you are probably correct here. The issue is not that 71% of all women are being sexually assaulted. Its that 71% of all women "feel assaulted" Somehow in the past 40 years what someones feelings are trump what the actual actions are.

        Saying something sexual, is NOT sexual assault.

      I disagree. The problem is that most men think that the way they sometimes treat women is not sexual assault, when in reality it is. This should be an eye opener for all men to take another look at themselves.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    43. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      Apparently having an opinion apart from the group-think gets some pretty heavy moderation these days...

      Does someone actually think these are well-worded questions that provide a clear understanding of the definitions of "sexual harassment" and "physical sexual harassment," or do they just prefer people not see the post by modding it down?

    44. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      we live in a tightly wound panties world when comments about physical beauty are harassment.

      Which is why there's a lot of eye rolling when the topic comes up. No matter how many trainings you make your employees go to, you cannot force them to accept complimenting somebody as assault. Just like the movie Reefer Madness, once you've compromised a part of your message by being ridiculous the entirety of your message is dismissed altogether. I don't know what mental deficiency exists in the minds of people who believe that holding FOUR annual employee trainings on sexual harassment is going to force people to accept some radical attempt to redefine normal civility as assault.

    45. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Non-problems?

      I think the "never-ending wave of abuse" to her simply saying, "guys, don't do that" demonstrates that it is, in fact, a problem.

      Moreover, that you don't see anything wrong with it is *part of the problem*.

    46. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please provide direct examples of sexual assault that most men think is not sexual assault.

    47. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Same goes for women.

      Why is it always the men that get singled out here? That 6% figure for men ought to be far more eye opening than the figure for women. Basically 1, it's definitely underrported and 2, the focus is still on the women. The focus is always on the women.

      Few men bother to report sexual assault or rape because there's little point in doing so. Most people are under the belief that women don't do that and even if they were to try, it's not technically possible. But, it does happen, even if most cases get swept under the rug.

      As far as the figures for women go, most of the time it's 3rd parties defining it as sexual assault even in cases where the "victim" wouldn't consider it to be sexual assault.

    48. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't think of a single profession which doesn't seem to have a "problem." Makes one wonder.

      Physics. There are no women.

    49. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      We should all be working together to stop harassment and violence . Nerds have been subject to prejudicial sterotyping, too. That should (and I think does) make us more understanding of the problem, not less. Instead of sniping at each other, let's bury our hatchets and work the problem.

      There. FTFY.

      There are no hatchets to bury, IMHO. In my experience, reasonable, decent people all agree that harassment and violence are inappropriate. The horrible things a small minority of people do should be roundly criticized and much more aggressively prosecuted.

      I get that people are mad about these issues. It makes me quite angry as well, At the same time, I agree with you that spewing vitriol at those who agree is counterproductive, I'd go further and say that those who can be reasoned with, should be reasoned with. You'll catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar.

      Those who can't be reasoned with aren't going to suddenly see the light when you call them names. It's a waste of energy that could be used in actually fixing the problems of discrimination, abuse and violence.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    50. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      The length you've gone to distort the facts of that situation speaks volumes about the source of the problem we're talking about.

    51. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Telling a woman her outfit looks nice can be interpreted as sexual assault, as can any complement that relates to appearance in any way.
      The only safe bet is to avoid complementing women at all.

      And further, avoid making any statement whatsoever that implies that she is female, or that she might do something typical of females. Any such statement can be construed as sexual harassment.

      Also, don't even think of making physical contact.

    52. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Really? You don't think sexual harassment and assault happen in the "1st world"?
      You have a *very* selective view of the world around you.

    53. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder when we will start attacking the sexual assault problem in politics and Hollywood? How is it that we still hold Roman Polanski and Bill Clinton in such high regard??

    54. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by ganjadude · · Score: 4, Interesting

      an example or 2 please?

      Ive known someone personally getting in trouble for sexual harassment for simply saying that the woman was wearing a nice shirt today. to her, that was sexual assault, to anyone with common sense, it was a complement

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    55. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Megol · · Score: 0

      You sir is an asshole and and idiot.

    56. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      It's flamebait to imply anything other than feminism is evil and actively attacking poor helpless men. Sorry you didn't know that. It antagonizes the misogynists.

      I don't get why they're so sensitive about it, but just a puff of genuine concern for gender equality(and the rather large body of evidence surrounding it) is seen as an attack.

      I don't actually understand the motivations of the mods, but I've come to expect that hypersensitive behavior, regardless of my own understanding. Actual thought out replies to the concerns are missing for me to fill in the gaps.

    57. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was it a hooters t-shirt?

    58. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Only? Slashdot is FULL of people with sanctimonious behavior on a ton of subjects.

    59. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      Clearly you have not been paying attention.
      http://www.fbi.gov/stats-servi...

    60. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Actually Slashdot is like that about everything. What really gets to some on Slashdot is how people like you act all sanctimonious and incredulous when people disagree about something, and only when it comes to feminism.

      Correct.
      Dipshits like "I kan reed" are always champing at the bit to jump on the next agenda bandwagon so they can scream at everyone else how they're terrible people while ignoring other problems completely because they're not represented by mob of "enlightened" retards.

    61. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by jsepeta · · Score: 1

      Is it wrong for me to tell a coworker "Nice dress" or "Cool tie"?

      some people misinterpret compliments as sexual harassment, and that's just plain dumb.

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    62. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by sexconker · · Score: 1, Offtopic

        Saying something sexual, is NOT sexual assault.

      That was before the PC revolution, and I'm not talking about computers here.

      2015 will be the year of Linux on the vagina!

    63. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, but being too much of a fucking asperger's case to pick up on the fact that your "something sexual" is making the woman you said it to extremely uncomfortable and that your advances are unwelcome means you've crossed the line into sexual harassment.

      Nobody said it was sexual assault. In fact the article above specifically describes two separate categories: assault and harassment, why would you conflate the two?

    64. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by whereiswaldo · · Score: 1

      You are guilty of deflecting criticism that the definitions are too broad by claiming that the parent poster is guilty of deflecting criticism. What if I performed an experiment and grouped the results by temperature: cold, warm, and hot? Wouldn't you question what temperature ranges those cold/warm/hot temperature labels corresponded to?
      Labels are thrown around in the media all the time and are often misleading. If you aren't questioning labels then you're that much easier to deceive.
      There is no deflection here - it is a rational question to ask.

    65. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it just wanted to make sure that everyone was treated equally under the law, it would be ok. But it doesn't, so feminism is evil to its core.

    66. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue is not that 71% of all women are being sexually assaulted. Its that 71% of all women "feel assaulted"

      You don't actually know what the word "assault" means, do you? Words have meanings.

      It's "the intentional creation of the apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact". If you "feel assaulted", then you likely were assaulted. You're confusing 'sexual assault' with 'sexual battery'. They aren't the same thing.

      An no, I didn't just make this up. The definition of 'assault' hasn't changed for centuries. You're just using it incorrectly.

    67. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by sexconker · · Score: 0

      Well, here's the actual questions:

      32. Have you ever personally experienced inappropriate or sexual remarks, comments about physical beauty, cognitive sex differences, or other jokes, at an anthropological field site? (If you have had more than one experience, the most notable to you.)

      The section is entitled Sexual harassment and assault so you would hope people would be contextually aware that "or other jokes" means of a sexual nature. But it's still a badly worded question. I further assume the reader is supposed to parse "inappropriate or sexual" as prefixes for the other items, but we live in a tightly wound panties world when comments about physical beauty are harassment.

      39. Have you ever experienced physical sexual harassment, unwanted sexual contact, or sexual contact in which you could not or did not give consent or felt it would be unsafe to fight back or not give your consent at an anthropological field site? (If you have had more than one experience, the most notable to you.)

      The problem, again, is a terribly worded question. Are we to again assume physical should extend through the commas? Or is unwanted sexual contact just a fat girl asking a handsome dude to get a date after the working day is done. Is all physical contact unwanted sexual contact now?

      The math for their statistical distributions is fine.

      Their questions suck, lack good wording, and lack examples. [Not limited to but including... ...excluding FOO, but not limited to BAR.]

      The second question also leaves "yes" as a valid response when consent was given for sexual content at an anthropological field site, but the respondent felt it would have been unsafe to fight back (despite having no need or desire to, since the sexual contact was consensual and enjoyed by all).
      Fighting at a dig site while having sex is unsafe. Hell, everyone in the world could answer that question "yes" as fighting in general is unsafe.

    68. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Bullshit. Nobody "gets in trouble" for a single comment.

      The comment about the woman's shirt was clearly the straw that broke the camel's back - your friend was probably perving out on the poor woman for months before she finally lost her shit at his unwelcome advances and sexual innuendo.

      Provide a citation, or retract the assertion.

    69. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by nbauman · · Score: 2

      Here's one of the questions:

      The following questions could be answered as “Yes,” “No,” or “I don't know:”

      “Have you ever personally experienced inappropriate or sexual remarks, comments about physical beauty, cognitive sex differences, or other jokes, at a field site? (If you have had more than one experience, the most notable to you).”

      In terms of good experimental design, that does seem too broad. "Comments about physical beauty" could be harassment or not. It's a leading question. What's inappropriate? They're not measuring sexual harassment, they're measuring their respondents' subjective perceptions of their colleagues' comments.

      It seems as if the researchers were designing the study with the intent of coming up with the largest numbers possible, in order to make the problem seem as big as possible.

      Last week a girl said to me, "that's a nice sweater," which I as a geek trying to understand social interactions interpreted as a friendly way of making small talk. If I said the same thing to a girl, these respondents could report it as sexual harassment.

      This study has flaws that the peer reviewers should have identified.

      I'd like to see studies of sexual harassment that meet the standards I see from rigorous scientific studies elsewhere.

    70. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Meeni · · Score: 1

      No, the problem is not with permanent tenure or whatnot. When they are reported, they are dealt with appropriately. The problem is that the cost of reporting is very high for victims, as they may not be able to complete their Ph.D. which is costing them tens of thousands (if not more) in lost future revenues, and 3 or 4 years of their life. So many can be effectively coerced into staying silent, because the cost is too high.

    71. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Rich0 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      32. Have you ever personally experienced inappropriate or sexual remarks, comments about physical beauty, cognitive sex differences, or other jokes, at an anthropological field site?

      Those are all joined by "or" so this is true if the answer to this question is true:
      Have you ever personally experienced comments about physical beauty at an anthropological field site?

      Technically that would be true if I said to a corker at a dig site, "that sure is a beautiful sunset." Even if making the obvious correction that they're talking about comments about YOUR OWN physical beauty, the statement is true if I compliment a coworker on her haircut.

      The other question is much more useful as it focuses more on unwanted physical contact. Question 32 is so broad that I'd be surprised if it wasn't true of almost everybody.

    72. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Creedo · · Score: 0

      Asshole misogynists have hijacked the debate and the language.

      There, fixed that for you. Dawkins is a brilliant evolutionist and a good defender of science. And he is a shithead when it comes to sexual harassment. If this attitude is the new face of the atheist movement, then fuck it. I no longer spend time or money on such things, and I'm not going to play ball with a bunch of sexist fuckwits. And if this is your attitude, then fuck you, too.

      --
      All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
    73. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by nbauman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, what they're talking about is, according to the article:

      “Have you ever personally experienced inappropriate or sexual remarks, comments about physical beauty, cognitive sex differences, or other jokes, at a field site? (If you have had more than one experience, the most notable to you).”

      That's not sexual assault. I'm not even sure it rises to the level of sexual harassment.

      Flirtation isn't sexual harassment. I'm sure every woman in the country must have been the subject of welcome and unwelcome flirtations.

      At a recent professional meeting, a woman made suggestive sexual remarks to me about a computer program. If I had said the same thing to another woman, the second woman could have interpreted it as harassment under that definition.

      There's a lot of grey areas and political correctness. If you want to look at it with publications in the scientific literature, fine. Let's use rigorous scientific methods to find out what the magnitude of sexual assault is. The first step is get your definitions right.

    74. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by ganjadude · · Score: 2

      yeah, let me just pull internal documents out of my ass.... look, the problem is that it doesnt matter if any harassment or assault happens these days. all there needs to be for sexual assault/harassment is for someone to "feel" abused, intent no longer matters.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    75. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Meeni · · Score: 1

      Actually, prostitutes are very often victims of sexual abuse (by clients, pimps, police, etc.)

    76. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So she was in a bar a 4 in the morning and announced to a group of people that she was going up to her room. One of them asked (apparently politely) if she was interested in going to his room; that's not harassment. Plus, I can't tell for sure but it appears that she's not wearing a bra in that video - sending mixed signals maybe?

    77. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's supposed to cover being pressured into sex, like say yes or you'll be stabbed or reassigned to a desk job. If someone was forced into sex then it wasn't consensual (it's rape) and people can make valid arguments that being manipulated into sex isn't consensual as well. Sex isn't automatically enjoyed by all. It can be mentally or physically painful for any party.

    78. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1, Troll

      You're right; feminists don't in general, push for only that, because legalistic bias isn't the only kind that's harming people. You can see object evidence of how systemic bias hurts women Or objective evidence that certain kinds of cultural media measurably cause those biases. Standing against that, in spite of having nothing to do with the law, is morally justified, and even necessary.

      But I'm sure you meant that what they we want is some kinda imagined matriarchy, where special rights are reserved for one half the population. Which is dumb. And while people with all sorts of self-labels say all sorts of dumb things, it is not a suggestion made by anywhere near a large percentage of feminists.

    79. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I have seen it a lot in the arts.
      Gay men trying hook up with straight men and accepting that their advances are unwanted.
      Straight women trying to hook up with gay men that are just not interested.
      Straight men hitting on straight women that are not interested.
      Straight women hitting on married or men in committed relationship.

      You name it and it has probably happened.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    80. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by chispito · · Score: 1

      39. Have you ever experienced physical sexual harassment, unwanted sexual contact, or sexual contact in which you could not or did not give consent or felt it would be unsafe to fight back or not give your consent at an anthropological field site? (If you have had more than one experience, the most notable to you.)

      The problem, again, is a terribly worded question. Are we to again assume physical should extend through the commas?

      I don't see the leeway you do. "Sexual contact" is physical. There's simply no other way to read those two works used together.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    81. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      What really gets me is how slashdot eats up shit like this, and only when it comes to feminism.

      When I was here 10+ years ago, the community was what you would expect from a populated that trended heavily young, male, and nerdy.

      But when I came back recently, the first thing I noticed was that the community is awful. Apparently everyone with 2 ounces of social skills left a while ago. The people left seem to be mostly basement dwelling neckbeards who have ridiculous issues with women.

    82. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you completely. There is a scientific consensus on this issue. 97% of women's study doctorates agree and have gathered a rather large body of evidence. Anyone who takes the other side of the issue is a "denier." It turns out that if people were not created equal it makes everyone's lives better to insist that they were created equal and regulate every aspect of our lives to ensure we base all of our actions upon the assumption that they were. Computer models of civil society have proven this to be the case over and over, the result is very robust. It's amazing how some people can just stubbornly keep their heads in the sand about such a clear cut issue, the science is settled!

    83. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You should read the study, not the article about the study, if you are going to criticize it. The thing you quoted was about harassment, not assault.

      http://www.plosone.org/article...

      "Have you ever experienced physical sexual harassment, unwanted sexual contact, or sexual contact in which you could not or did not give consent or felt it would be unsafe to fight back or not give your consent at an anthropological field site? (If you have had more than one experience, the most notable to you.)"

      Is the question about sexual assault.

      The grey areas are overwhelmed by the black and white areas. If you feel there are too many grey areas, talk to your manager about getting on a course to help you.

    84. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      In my experience, reasonable, decent people all agree that harassment and violence are inappropriate. The horrible things a small minority of people do should be roundly criticized and much more aggressively prosecuted.

      Of course. This is obvious. Horrible things are bad. The problem comes in defining what is horrible.

      If you think what someone is doing is horrible but they don't, then saying "you love doing horrible things" is a lie. They don't love doing horrible things and they aren't doing anything horrible -- in their definition of horrible. It is a complete waste of time to argue on that level. If the first statement out of your mouth when trying to get someone to change their behavior is obviously (to them) a lie, they have no reason to listen to anything else you say.

      So, in this context, the question that includes "comments about physical beauty" and even "cognitive gender differences" in the category "sexual assault or harassment", and then reports that 71% of women report being sexually assaulted or harassed, is a dishonest question. I.e., a lie. Some percentage of those answering the question yes will have experienced the horrible and terrifying situation of a coworker telling them they're nicely dressed or wearing pretty earrings. Or they may have seen a copy of the book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" on someone's desk. Or, if a man, they'll have looked inside any copy of Elle or Vogue or Cosmo.

      It's a waste of energy that could be used in actually fixing the problems of discrimination, abuse and violence.

      As one gets older, or if one obtains the help of any 12 step program, you learn that you have very little control over what other people do or think. Most of the efforts to fix these problems are a waste of energy. Sending 50 people to a workplace sexual harassment prevention seminar for the day will waste the time of all fifty people. It accomplishes two things: it satisfies legal requirements for such "training" to have been given, and it provides a better basis for firing someone who is actually causing a problem. Of course it doesn't look so good if the actual problem is counseled privately the first time and then fired the second, so 49 people have to be told not to do "horrible things" in the workplace when they are already not doing horrible things. But that seminar didn't fix anything.

    85. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      Oh, and also, Dawkins has since apologized for that comment. I think he eventually recognized the logical fallacy he had used and realized his mistake. So if you consider yourself a rational person you will do the same.

    86. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you don't want to look like a creep - ask the girl to your room around witnesses (they don't have to hear, just as long as you make it feel safe for her to refuse). Waiting until your alone in a confined space, if not harassing, is very bad manners to the point of being ungentlemanly. Don't do that, guys.

    87. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Oh, I'm sorry, that's a completely different area where you're objectively wrong, for different reasons.

      But good job on making the connection.

    88. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      The issue is that 71% of RESPONDANTS said it was an issue.

      You cant form any conclusion from that without knowing more information-- the size of the poll, whether people responded to other questions but not this one, etc.

    89. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, let me just pull internal documents out of my ass.... look, the problem is that it doesnt matter if any harassment or assault happens these days. all there needs to be for sexual assault/harassment is for someone to "feel" abused, intent no longer matters.

      Talking about your "ass" offends me. I feel assaulted.

    90. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The problem is that most men think that the way they sometimes treat women is not sexual assault, when in reality it is."

      But this is ridiculous. If there was intent to sexually offend, there is guilt. If there was no intent, there is no guilt.

      Perception is not reality. Just because someone feels sexually offended doesnt mean there was intent to be offensive.

    91. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I'm sure you meant that what they we want is some kinda imagined matriarchy, where special rights are reserved for one half the population. Which is dumb. And while people with all sorts of self-labels say all sorts of dumb things, it is not a suggestion made by anywhere near a large percentage of feminists.

      You're absolutely right. Only a small percentage does that, so let's just ignore it, or pretend it balances out. The correct thing to do is NOT to address both issues.

    92. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by MSG · · Score: 2

      the problem is that it doesnt matter if any harassment or assault happens these days. all there needs to be for sexual assault/harassment is for someone to "feel" abused, intent no longer matters.

      You're correct in identifying the standard that is used for sexual harassment. If someone feels harassed, then the issue is treated as harassment. That is not, however, the problem or a problem. It doesn't mean that you'll be fired or even disciplined as a result of the complaint. All it means is that when an employee submits a harassment complaint, that HR treats the complaint seriously and investigates each complaint consistently. If they find that the complaint warrants discipline, then the offending person will be disciplined. Otherwise, there may simply be mediation to remedy the situation.

      Your attitude, ganjadude, that treating harassment claims seriously based on the subjective experience of the person making the claim is "the" problem almost certainly indicates that you take criticism poorly. The problem with harassment is that people against whom complaints are made often retaliate against the person making the complaint rather than accepting criticism and working to create an environment where people feel safe.

    93. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Flirtation, on the job, especially by supervisors, is pretty damn hard to distinguish from sexual harassment. (And may actually legally be sexual harassment, when done at work.)

    94. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Who?

      That's DOCTOR Who, to you, Sir!
       

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    95. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. You're just defending horrible shit for no reason.

      That's a reason to condemn you as bad people.

    96. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Plus, I can't tell for sure but it appears that she's not wearing a bra in that video - sending mixed signals maybe?

      Seriously? I mean, seriously?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    97. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flirtation isn't sexual harassment.

      It is if it continues even when the woman is clear that she isn't into it.

    98. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And further, avoid making any statement whatsoever that implies that she is female, or that she might do something typical of females. Any such statement can be construed as sexual harassment.

      Also, don't even think of making physical contact.

      I got an idea. While at work, lock yourself in your office all day, every day. You can come out once or twice for bathroom breaks, but all the rest of the day stay in your office. It is obviously much safer for you to stay in there.

      Problem solved. No need to thank me.

    99. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I do research in this area and this is an increasing problem. If you ask people--victims or perpetrators--if they've raped or been raped, for example, it's so loaded that people change their answers in ways that are unintended. But if you beat around the bush by trying to be very specific but general at the same time, it leaves room for all sorts of grey areas and differences of interpretation.

      E.g., with question 39, I agree with you about "unwanted sexual contact" being physical, but the deeper, more pressing question is what does "unwanted" mean. Unwanted beforehand? Unwanted afterward, in the sense of "regretted"? What about situations where you cannot give consent, but neither can the other person because you're both horribly intoxicated? For that matter, how do we know that what's perceived as sexual was actually sexual? E.g., if someone unintentionally brushes against a breast in a cramped lab space, and the respondent *infers* that it was of a intentional sexual nature?

      That's not even getting into question 32, which could be interpreted so broadly as to apply to anyone. Hell, it technically applies to me and I know not in the way they mean.

      I'm not trying to dismiss actual victims, nor am I trying to dismiss the idea that there are problems with sexual harassment and assault in the sciences or elsewhere, but this has gotten way out of hand and is turning into a witch hunt. We've reached a point where claims of sexual mistreatment are taken as fact; where past events are defined by a single person's perceptions and memories of what occurred; and where situational factors are totally ignored.

    100. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Kielistic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is the mindless and baseless insults to anyone that disagrees with you that makes it flamebait. Your brazen strawmen that make people completely disregard what you have to say. That is also the number one reason that there is such a strong push-back against feminism. Obnoxious, pretentious blow-hards like yourself are the exact reason why so many people think feminism is a joke.

      Of course you will continue to excuse your reprehensible attitude with pious self-importance and sarcastically shrug off any criticism with "most people that disagree are just misogynists" even though you have no reason the believe that and are shown otherwise every time you say it.

      I want you to think about this, i kan reed, every time you feel someone is complaining about "straw-feminists" or "doesn't know what feminism is about". It is because of you and people like you. You are the number one reason that people have a bad image of feminism. It isn't misogyny. It isn't insecurities. People do not fear strong women nor do they fear losing their "privileges" (not that there aren't many feminists that love infringing on the rights of others). It is you. It is you and the other preening mooks like you. The self-aggrandizing attitude that because you are "feminist" you are morally superior and entitled to talk down, belittle, insult and defame anyone that dares say something you do not like.

      You are a straw-feminist.

    101. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Please define said "horrible bullshit" and please show where I've defended such things.

    102. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know what you mean, this place is now too depressing for words, the angry misogynists, seemingly angry about being called misogynists for being blatantly misogynistic, are tainting all aspects of traditional geekdom. I guess slashdot was going to die one day, shame it had to go this way.

      The cry is for women to grow some balls and man up, afterall guys get harassed too but they're sensible and take it as a complement(????), this cry coming from over-sensitive manchildren who are weirdly scared of girls behaving in ways they interpret as mean or misandristic, where's the sense in that?

    103. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Both you and Jawnn seem to have that in spades. Geez Louise! get a grip.

      When you make unexplained connections in your head, spouting nonsense, then rephrasing what you had posted in an attempt to make it appear as if you were really clever (if you had only explained your thought process), isn't a failure of comprehension on someone else's part.

    104. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      As one gets older, or if one obtains the help of any 12 step program, you learn that you have very little control over what other people do or think. Most of the efforts to fix these problems are a waste of energy. Sending 50 people to a workplace sexual harassment prevention seminar for the day will waste the time of all fifty people. It accomplishes two things: it satisfies legal requirements for such "training" to have been given, and it provides a better basis for firing someone who is actually causing a problem. Of course it doesn't look so good if the actual problem is counseled privately the first time and then fired the second, so 49 people have to be told not to do "horrible things" in the workplace when they are already not doing horrible things. But that seminar didn't fix anything.

      I am, as you put it, older, and yes I have learned that there are very few things that are actually under our individual control -- and other people do not fit into those few things at all.

      I would say that it might have been more productive to more fully quote me:

      I'd go further and say that those who can be reasoned with, should be reasoned with. You'll catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar. Those who can't be reasoned with aren't going to suddenly see the light when you call them names. It's a waste of energy that could be used in actually fixing the problems of discrimination, abuse and violence.

      and make your comments with the broader point, IMHO.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    105. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      > Both you and Jawnn seem to have that in spades. Geez Louise! get a grip.

      When you make unexplained connections in your head, spouting nonsense, then rephrasing what you had posted in an attempt to make it appear as if you were really clever (if you had only explained your thought process), isn't a failure of comprehension on someone else's part.

      My complaint about reading comprehension related to the initial post, not my post. One reacted with vitriol over some, as you eloquently put it, unexplained connections in their head. When I called that person it, some AC (perhaps you?) was annoyed that I was incredulous at the GP's (and the AC's) poor reading comprehension.

      Does that help you? Or should I use smaller words, so you'll be sure to understand?

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    106. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      "Horrible shit" being denialism over the level of sexual assault in the scientific field, and implicitly by suggesting that this completely spurious dismissal is somehow not completely fucking insane by the nature of your argument.

      Now you can argue your statements are somehow completely divorced from the discussion's context. You can do that till the cow comes home and I won't be able to prove it, but I don't think you've remotely earned that level of good faith.

    107. Re: Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The premise of this argument is defective. Why does anyone believe that Science qualifies for such indiscriminate treatment? I can understand the assertion that individuals or organized groups of individuals can have identfiable problems and subsequent responsibilities. But arguing that Science qualifies as a legitimate target for criticism is ridiculous and unhelpful if the goal is actually to address unacceptably aggressive sexual behavior. It's like saying Religion has a problem without bothering to identify whether there's an institutional component. I don't recall anyone lumping the Eastern Orthodox priests with the pedofile priests of the Pope. It almost sounds like some anti-intellectual effort to discredit philosophy because religious conservatism has lost so much of its former value as a political franchise. This should have been posted to Slashdot not /.

    108. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well yes, you are, guilty of deflecting criticism by claiming the definitions are too broad.

      That's a common defensive reaction.

      i consider this sexual harrassment.

    109. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 0

      I've never accused anyone of being a misogynists for disagreeing with me, and since you've clearly gone over my posts recently, I can tell you have no evidence of it.

      You're strawmanning again.

      And I don't give a fuck if you think I'm being "morally superior" to people whose behaviors are outright reprehensible. Take you self-righteousness about self-righteousness and shove it up your ass, you hypocritical douchebag.

    110. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      I am in no way trying to say harassment doesnt happen. it does, Ive seen it with my own eyes im sure everyone has at some point. The problem I see (and it is a real problem) is with political correctness making it so that intent no longer matters, the only thing that matters is what the "victim" "feels" Hell Ive personally been yelled at for holding a door open for a woman "I dont need no MANS (she used an s) to hold no doors fo' me" in her head, I "assaulted" her by holding the door open for her

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    111. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct.
      If you aren't equally focused on all problems you are a dipshit hypocrite who doesn't deserve a voice on any of the problems.

    112. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a complaint was lodged against me for an unintentionally offending comment or action, I'd never feel professionally safe around that person again. I'd limit all interactions to exactly what was absolutely needed so to keep myself safe and never offend them again. And I'd warn other to be careful was is said around the person who made the complaint, so as to prevent them from offending.

      Sensitive and delicate snowflakes are too thin skinned for standard interaction.

    113. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've got it.

      There are clear and exact boundaries accepted by rational and sane people. Hitting or flirting on someone - especially a peer, is not harassment. Some "feminists" think it is.

      Hitting on a subordinate, especially a direct report, is not acceptable.
      Hitting on someone AFTER they ask you to stop crosses the line into harassment.

      It's that simple.

      Of course you stop hitting on someone when asked to stop. You just treat them like used toilet paper, tell everybody that they should be careful around that PC sourpuss and go pointedly out of their way and refuse cooperating in a meaningful manner with them. If they don't want to get along with you, you will not force them. You are reasonable and get along with reasonable people.

    114. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But this is ridiculous. If there was intent to sexually offend, there is guilt. If there was no intent, there is no guilt.

      This gave me the idea for a disturbingly ludicrous new crime: Negligent Sexual Assault, meaning a sexual assault which occurred through negligence. Just wait, President Biden will push this through.

      - T

    115. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      But when I came back recently, the first thing I noticed was that the community is awful. Apparently everyone with 2 ounces of social skills left a while ago. The people left seem to be mostly basement dwelling neckbeards who have ridiculous issues with women.

      Witness the rise of the MRA movement. The shared voice seems to have emboldened them o share their deep issues and repulsive attitudes much more freely.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    116. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by MSG · · Score: 1

      I seriously doubt that she considered your holding the door open an assult. She probably considered it disrespectful, and unless you are equally likely to hold a door for any person, then it could certainly be considered condescending from a certain point of view.

      The issue isn't that intent doesn't matter, it is that intent doesn't matter more than the subjective experience of the second party. Their perception of your actions is equally important to your intent. When you are able to accept other people as equals, and not as subordinates, you'll understand why that's the right way to handle the situation.

      Again, that doesn't mean that a complaint is always valid. Mediation is intended to determine both intent and perception, to explain both to each party, and whenever possible, to provide guidelines for everyone to ensure that future interactions don't create further offense.

    117. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Kielistic · · Score: 2

      It's flamebait to imply anything other than feminism is evil and actively attacking poor helpless men. Sorry you didn't know that. It antagonizes the misogynists.

      So what are you saying here other than that anyone that thought your post was flamebait was an antagonized misogynist? I really don't understand how you can think people are going to take you seriously when you say moronic things like that. Especially when you say I am making a strawman. I read what you wrote and I am really unsure how to interpret it other than you implying people are misogynist.

      And I don't give a fuck if you think I'm being "morally superior" to people whose behaviors are outright reprehensible.

      That would be exactly my point. You just label anyone that disagrees with you to have "outright reprehensible behaviour". Either that or you just conveniently ignore (or pretend don't exist) the huge amount of people that disagree with you and do not have reprehensible behaviour. You think that you are better than people; you think that entitles you to act like an asshole.

      Pointing out that you have a brazen superiority complex does not mean I am being self-righteous. You can call me hypocritical and self-righteous all day long but you are still the one constantly going on about how superior you are to all us mere mortal misogynists.

    118. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 1

      At a recent professional meeting, a woman made suggestive sexual remarks to me about a computer program. If I had said the same thing to another woman, the second woman could have interpreted it as harassment under that definition.

      That's basically the 2013 'Donglegate' controversy in a nutshell.

    119. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't do that, guys.

      That is the attitude which caused her so much trouble: "You must obey me when I tell you what to do and when to do it."

    120. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're jealous and insecure that they're doing a better job than you. Got it.

    121. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      That would be exactly my point. You just label anyone that disagrees with you to have "outright reprehensible behaviour".

      And you just cherry pick and ouright make shit up. If you read his posts, you will very clearly see that he does not in fact label literally everyone who disagrees with him as having outright reprehensible behaviour. As far as I see, it's fine for him to label the dickheads who disagree as dickheads.

      Either that or you just conveniently ignore (or pretend don't exist) the huge amount of people that disagree with you and do not have reprehensible behaviour.

      I think you're confused as to who is ignoring what. You seem to be ignoring the people who disagree over things in a reasonable way who he isn't in fac labelling as sexist.

      You think that you are better than people; you think that entitles you to act like an asshole.

      You're projecting here. What I see is him disagreeing with people who are basically asshole MRAs and you jumping all over him accusing him of being a "straw feminist" whatever the fuck that is. You are thereby getting a very smug feeling of superiority over him (and now presumably me) which is exactly what you're accusing him of.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    122. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      They do happen. But AFAIK, the guy in question did neither, contrariwise to what might happen in a similar situation elsewhere in the world, which perhaps was Dawkins' point. And as far as the guy's action resulting in something merely awkward and uncomfortable...well, I could think of dozens of things that happen in the society that make people feel awkward and uncomfortable.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    123. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      It's "the intentional creation of the apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact"

      Your interpretation of that seems overly broad. All actions are intentional, and some of them create the apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact, but does that imply that all intentional actions (which are all of them) creating the apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact intend to create the apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact? If I ask someone at night what's the time, 1) it's intentional, and 2) that person might mistakenly get the apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact, but 3) is it my intention to create the apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact? It's not the same thing as throwing a stone at someone and missing, where a misunderstanding is much less likely.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    124. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact that you feel like you need to put the word "feel" or "emotion" around the word "woman" is part of the problem.

    125. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      If you care so much about denialism why are you aligning yourself with feminists, who are such profound rape and domestic violence denialists that they continue to this day to define rape and domestic violence as "Violence Against Women" despite all non-feminist research proving that rates are 50/50 across the genders? Why are you aligning yourself with people who support pedophile rapists getting child support from their rape victims? With people who wrote laws that force the police to arrest domestic violence victims purely for their gender, and force them to use the "Duluth Model"?

      You don't give a flying fuck about actually helping anyone, this is just a positional good for you. It's a way to feel morally superior and bully other people while claiming that you're the real victim.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    126. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why I do not talk to women at work about anything that isn't work related. I, like I'm sure most other men, also am very careful about what I say that could be overheard as well.

    127. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mean+pun · · Score: 1

      It looks to me like mod prime is gently giving some friendly advice. Pretty damn obvious advice that should not be necessary, but friendly advice.

      Is it really so hard to see that s/he has a point?

    128. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are zero women in my workplace. I love it.

      I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the women love it, too.

    129. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      I would say that it might have been more productive to more fully quote me:

      Just as you admit that controlling what other people do or think is seldom within one's ability, so is telling other people what points they should be making and how broadly they ought to discuss things.

      My point is, and remains, that the concept of "actually fixing the problems of discrimination, abuse and violence" (the part I quoted) requires telling other people how to think and behave. It also requires a correct definition of "discrimination, abuse and violence", and one worker telling a blond joke within earshot of a woman just doesn't reach that level. Sending 50 people to a class to learn how not to "discriminate, abuse or be violent" when they aren't doing that to start with is still a waste of everyone's time. Sending them to a class to learn how not to violate some law that has ridiculous definitions of "discrimination, abuse and violence" is only slightly less a waste of time.

    130. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd love to, but I don't get an office. I have to work in a cube farm, but it isn't even really a cube farm because the "cubicles" are open to each other in clusters of 4 and the "cube walls" only go halfway up anyway, so its like a giant conference room.

      And to make matters worse, the woman who sits right next to me is gorgeous and flirtatious. But anything I say to her might be seen as harassment by anyone in the whole damn room that might overhear. Or by her if she gets annoyed.

      I cannot win.

    131. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dawkins has realized that he was using a logical fallacy and has since apologized for that tweet so everyone in this thread that is trying to defend him looks pretty silly.

      She never accused the guy of harassment or assault. She was just pointing out behavior that she found to be creepy and used it as an example of what not to do. The whole video in question had to do with things that make women feel uncomfortable and thus not attend certain conferences. Yes, people have to deal with that from time to time in the larger society but if a specific group of people want to be more inclusive than they certainly shouldn't issue death threats just because someone had the nerve to point out some of those "awkward and uncomfortable" things.

    132. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Well, he *did* challenge some assumptions, and that's not smart on Slashdot...

    133. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Few men bother to report sexual assault or rape because there's little point in doing so.

      Because men are pathetic worms who will do ANYTHING - literally anything - to put their disgusting penis into a warm hole.

    134. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      So you're jealous and insecure that they're doing a better job than you. Got it.

      Yeah, I've moved past the point where people like you can shame me into flip flopping. I don't want you around me, and I don't value your approval.

      It doesn't really matter why I hold this position, or how you want to label it. What matters is, I refuse to support companies that woo women away from traditional family life, and I refuse to be sneaky about it in the name of political correctness.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    135. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      It is harassment if it continues after saying "no". You don't get disciplined or fired at work for flirting one time, you get fired for keeping at it. It's not just women, and not just some stereotype of feminists. There are men who get harassed by men, then laughed at if they complain. It's common sense: if it becomes uncomfortable for an employee to come to work because of the attitudes of their coworkers, then something is wrong and it needs to be fixed. Act professionally at work, it's that simple.

    136. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I cannot win.

      Actually, you can. Just stick strictly to business. Just because she is flirtatious does not mean you must respond in kind. If she keeps it up, you could gently suggest that she try to keep it on a professional level while at work. It may be harder to cordone off work life from social life, but it is possible.

    137. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by xevioso · · Score: 1

      That is "are", and "an", respectively, idiot.

    138. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      That's the simplest rule here, if people would follow it: don't be the creep.

    139. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Why aren't YOU at home taking care of the wife and children? It'd be a lot nicer at the workplace if the misogynists would just stay home.

      Right now there are fewer women in my workplace than I've ever seen in my career. And it is most certainly not better. I'd like to see more women, it makes the workplace nicer and more professional instead of being just an extension of the locker room.

    140. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, let me just pull internal documents out of my ass

      you have no problem pulling random anecdotes out of your ass, why is it a problem to find one more thing up there?

      look, the problem is that it doesnt matter if any harassment or assault happens these days. all there needs to be for sexual assault/harassment is for someone to "feel" abused, intent no longer matters.

      Defendant: "Well yes, your honor, I slapped her on the ass and told her to ride my hard cock like a bad girl do, but my INTENT was to show her that I really care for her in a professional, courteous manner. That was also my intent when I told her I wanted to drown her in my hot cum."
      Judge: "Oh well, if that was your intent, then case dismissed."

      On the one hand, you're arguing that it's a problem that "how the comment makes someone feel" is problematic. But then you're arguing that the actual effects of the comment should be ignored in favor of the commenter's "intent" when making the comment? Quite a double standard there, no? "Her feelings about my comments don't matter; it's all about how *I* felt when I said it!"

      Here's the thing: NOBODY is being disciplined for sexual harassment without a long and distinguished track record of being an abusive creep. You keep asserting that this is a real risk, and yet you can provide no evidence of it actually happening, and no evidence that this nefarious conspiracy that nobody else has ever seen evidence of actually exists.

      So sorry, either put up, or shut up.

    141. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for one comment. All the harassment training I've seen emphasizes that it is a pattern of harassment that gets one into trouble, or by creating a hostile or uncomfortable workplace.

    142. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Skarjak · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure the dude had only asked her if she wanted to come up to his room for coffee. She just overreacted in a completely ridiculous way. Then the internet overreacted too cause that's what it does.

    143. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Skarjak · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, some people have gotten it into their heads that they have a right to not feel awkard, and that feeling awkward makes them "violated". A clear abuse of the word, if I've ever seen any.

    144. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by xevioso · · Score: 1

      And correct.

    145. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Skarjak · · Score: 1

      The funny thing is that the very same woman who complained had been making dick jokes on twitter in the morning of that day.

    146. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Someone posts this drivel, and yet some slashdotters still refuse to admit that there's a problem.

      What does not wearing a bra have to do with anything; it is not a sign that someone wants to be hit on. And why are you trying to see if this person has a bra or not, what damned business is it to you? She is not there to be part of your entertainment. So if someone sees you're wearing boxers instead of briefs, you're sending the signal that I bunch of sweaty fat conference goers can come on to you?

    147. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Asking someone to your room when others may overhear puts her under probably unwanted social pressures. Failing to wait until you can ask her privately is very bad manners to the point of being ungentlemanly. Don't do that, guy.

    148. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I'm here because it's not reddit.

      (to be fair I know nothing about reddit, I only said it in a desperate search for approval)

      I actually don't remember slashdot ever trending heavily young. It's always felt like an older crowd than the typical internet forum. Back when GrampaTaco started the thing up.

    149. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      32. Have you ever personally experienced inappropriate or sexual remarks, comments about physical beauty, cognitive sex differences, or other jokes, at an anthropological field site?

      Those are all joined by "or" so this is true if the answer to this question is true:
      Have you ever personally experienced comments about physical beauty at an anthropological field site?

      Technically that would be true if I said to a corker at a dig site, "that sure is a beautiful sunset." Even if making the obvious correction that they're talking about comments about YOUR OWN physical beauty, the statement is true if I compliment a coworker on her haircut.

      The other question is much more useful as it focuses more on unwanted physical contact. Question 32 is so broad that I'd be surprised if it wasn't true of almost everybody.

      The heart of 32 is a good question, but there is a big difference between an inappropriate comment and a physical comment. An inappropriate comment could be "Did that person even *try* to look professional today?" Is this question inappropriate? Potentially. Is this question sexual? No. Will a response of "Yes" get classified as an example of sexual assault because two independently bad characteristics are lumped together into a single question? Absolutely yes.

    150. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Skarjak · · Score: 1

      Reading the summary, I was amazed that according to their own figures, 41% of men have suffered sexual harrassment, yet the quote is only about women.

    151. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      There is a bit more than that, what you said is just one part of what can constitute sexual harassment in the workplace. The other major facet is in creating a persistently hostile or uncomfortable workplace. You don't have to ever hit on someone or flirt, yet if every single day people are telling raunchy jokes or commenting on physical attributes, that is also harassment. This applies even when the person who's uncomfortable isn't a women. Calling a guy pussy-whipped constantly, or a nickname referring to genital size, and so forth. Not everyone automatically appreciates overhearing the penthouse forum lettters being read outloud. It can happen with women creating an uncomfortable environment for men as well.

    152. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      And indeed, some women fall afoul of harassment rules at the workplace also. The whole point is to create a workplace where everyone can come in to work without worrying about the social environment, spend the day without hearing descriptions about physical attributes, not be called a prude because they don't want to hear the jokes, and so forth.

    153. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      This was something that happened in the 90s, but there was a prof I knew who would regularly tell women grad students that they would do better if they stayed at home and had kids. Including to one of the smartest people I have ever met on the planet. Meanwhile idiotic men enter the workplace without anyone ever suggesting that they're incompetent and would be better off doing housework.

    154. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Management?

    155. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ya I don't see the problem. Just like those DMCA take down notices.

      Oh wait.

    156. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by horigath · · Score: 1

      Parent post: women "feel" assaulted. That doesn't mean they actually were!

      This post: other people say women were assaulted. That doesn't mean they feel assaulted!

      Damned if you do/damned if you don't.

    157. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      I did read the study, and the appendix S1. I just reread it, searching for "assault" and "rape."

      They define "assault" to mean "unwanted sexual contact, up to and including rape." Apparently, they measure it by the answers to Question 39, about "physical sexual harassment," which is where they got that 26% figure from.

      They don't define "unwanted sexual contact." For example, Bora Zivkovic had a habit of hugging women, some of whom didn't enjoy it. That is literally an "unwanted sexual contact." It may be creepy, unpleasant or inappropriate, and it should (and did) stop. But it's not rape.

      This study doesn't distinguish between unwanted hugging and forcible rape, and it doesn't break down the 26% figure into more or less violent forms of unwanted sexual contact. It doesn't even give the number of violent rapes.

      If you have an unknown number of unwanted huggings, at one end of the spectrum, and an unknown number of violent rapes, at the other end of the spectrum, then that's a big grey area.

      Managers get their orders from the legal department. The legal department sets rules that will give them a safe harbor from lawsuits, and not necessarily rules that are fair, reasonable, logical, or based on evidence.

      This study is oversimplified. I think they're using science to advance their political agenda. That's OK, but they need better science. I'd like to see a better-quality study.

    158. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And to make matters worse, the woman who sits right next to me is gorgeous and flirtatious. But anything I say to her might be seen as harassment by anyone in the whole damn room that might overhear. Or by her if she gets annoyed.

      I cannot win.

      Of course you can, you should immediately march down to HR and report her "flirtatious" manner as sexual harassment - there is no reason you should be subjected to that in your work environment. ... and if they laugh at you and do nothing, you should take them to court and sue them for allowing such a 'hostile' workplace.

    159. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen.

      Enough with the Wolf Crying.

    160. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      I can't think of a single profession which doesn't seem to have a "problem." Makes one wonder.

      Makes you wonder what, exactly? That this is not a "problem", because "everybody's doing it?" WTF? Look pal, the "problem" is narrow-minded, clueless misogynist views like that.

      Wow! Just wow! I was thinking the same thing myself, except I put "this is a societal problem, not one just in the academic community," after 'Makes one wonder'. Way to go in projecting your fears and negativity on others.

      Um, no... Observing that the "problem" is indeed widespread (i.e. a "societal problem") and that this in no way excuses any single community's misogyny is hardly "projecting" anything.

    161. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1, Troll

      I'm glad to see you have corrected your argument from it's previously incorrect position.

      They don't define "unwanted sexual contact." For example, Bora Zivkovic had a habit of hugging women, some of whom didn't enjoy it. That is literally an "unwanted sexual contact." It may be creepy, unpleasant or inappropriate, and it should (and did) stop. But it's not rape.

      This study is about unwanted sexual contact, not rape. If you don't know what unwanted sexual contact means, take a course. Hint, pressing your body up against an unwilling partner is unwanted sexual contact.

      This study doesn't distinguish between unwanted hugging and forcible rape, and it doesn't break down the 26% figure into more or less violent forms of unwanted sexual contact. It doesn't even give the number of violent rapes.

      Aww, does it not discuss legitimate rape? It's a study about sexual assault.

      If you have an unknown number of unwanted huggings, at one end of the spectrum, and an unknown number of violent rapes, at the other end of the spectrum, then that's a big grey area.

      Not if you are looking at rates of sexual assault. In which case, it's exactly what you were looking for.

      I'd like to see a better-quality study.

      You're free to fund one, or if you think you can do better - perform it yourself.

    162. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1, Insightful

      First, we're talking cold propositions here. The kind of proposition where there has been no previous conversation/flirtation etc.
      Second, I didn't suggest doing it so others can overhear - indeed I pointed this out. Just so that they can see what's going on - or at the very least the lady you are propositioning has an easy way to get to witnesses (so avoid metal cages suspended in the air, for example).

      This is because some men are gigantic assholes who, when it is safe for them to do so, get aggressive at 'bitches' that turn them down, and being alone with a testosterone-fuelled human with hard-on is pretty terrifying because the consequences can turn horrifying. If you want to know what such men can be like when women don't submit and they have basic anonymity? Check out the internet.

      So be the gentleman, always make sure the ladies you proposition can politely turn you down without fear.

      If nothing else, realize this - if you cold proposition a woman on her own, she may feel that it isn't a 'request' and you may end up inadvertently raping or sexually assaulting someone if she says OK out of fear. I doubt you'd be prosecuted for such a rape, but morally you'd be a rapist. Play on the safe side, always give girls an out.

    163. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      It is harassment if it continues after saying "no". You don't get disciplined or fired at work for flirting one time, you get fired for keeping at it.

      Yes, but in this survey, they only asked Question 32 about "inappropriate or sexual remarks" and Question 39 about "physical sexual harassment".

      You can't tell from this survey whether the subject said "no", or whether the incidents happened once or repeatedly.

      The survey asks them for a completely subjective response. They say in the article that they deliberately didn't give definitions. So these "inappropriate sexual remarks" might have been something as innocuous as telling an off-color joke in a bar after work. The "physical sexual harassment" might have been a co-worker putting his hand on your arm.

      If you join a group of people and they have a certain style of conversation, should everybody else accommodate your standards, or should you accommodate theirs? I don't see why everybody else should be required to change their language to your standards. This is what anthropologists study. I'd like to see studies of these real issues.

      Some people are very prudish. If you say "fuck", they get upset. Other people say "fuck" all the time. When I was in college, my English teachers assigned us poems by Alan Ginsberg, who used "fuck" all the time. Some people -- very few -- were upset. What were we supposed to do -- censor Alan Ginsberg's poems? Should we all change? Or should that one Freshman English student from a religious high school realize that she's being too fastidious and that this is the way adults talk?

      Suppose the incidents happen repeatedly, and the subject doesn't say "no"? That's what happened in the Bora Zivkovic case. Nobody stopped coming to work. They even encouraged him. Then they suddenly started complaining that they were being harassed all along.

      It's not that simple. That's why people study anthropology.

    164. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If she doesn't feel safe around you why, pray tell, would she be alone with you?

    165. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      Ah, 'some "feminists"'. They're always up to no good those 'some "feminists"'.

    166. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      If you have trouble to talk to a girl, especially after she started the conversation, you are not a geek, but a nerd.

      Sad that in our days geeks and nerds are considered the same thing ... but I don't feel sexually harassed by it :D

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    167. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Rinikusu · · Score: 1

      FWIW, this is precisely what I was intending.

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    168. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I have never been in a country where it would not be considered unbelievable rude if you asked a girl in front of witnesses to your room.
      I mean, if I would do that in certain European countries or regions and the brother or father is around (assuming I'm not already married to the girl in question) that would be close to a death sentence aka suicide.
      In what retarded world do you live that you consider to ask a girl in public: "you wanna fuck me?" is okey?
      Ah, well, you only wanted to ask her to come (and stay?) to your room ... drinking a coffee, sorry, my misinterpretation.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    169. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More professional my ass. You just want to see more tits and ass up close. This whole white knight defender of the vagina bullshit isn't fooling anyone on here. And it most certainly doesn't help you score more vaj.

    170. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      I didn't suggest you do that.

      I suggested you made sure there were people around, not necessarily within earshot.

      Do you think walking up to strange women when they are alone with no prospect of immediate help around and propositioning them for sex is polite?

    171. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      I would say that it might have been more productive to more fully quote me:

      Just as you admit that controlling what other people do or think is seldom within one's ability, so is telling other people what points they should be making and how broadly they ought to discuss things.

      My point is, and remains, that the concept of "actually fixing the problems of discrimination, abuse and violence" (the part I quoted) requires telling other people how to think and behave. It also requires a correct definition of "discrimination, abuse and violence", and one worker telling a blond joke within earshot of a woman just doesn't reach that level. Sending 50 people to a class to learn how not to "discriminate, abuse or be violent" when they aren't doing that to start with is still a waste of everyone's time. Sending them to a class to learn how not to violate some law that has ridiculous definitions of "discrimination, abuse and violence" is only slightly less a waste of time.

      I made i clear that I was expressing my opinion, not telling you what to do. I have no expectation that you will feel that it's necessary to act on my opinion, nor should I. Does that mean you think I shouldn't express my opinion, since I have no way to force others to do as I suggest? I'm not being snarky here, but that's what I gleaned from your response. Perhaps I interpreted your statement incorrectly.

      I don't disagree with your point, rather I felt that including the part about "reasoning with those who can be reasoned with" makes your argument stronger, which is why I suggested its inclusion.

      Have a lovely evening.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    172. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      I can't think of a single profession which doesn't seem to have a "problem." Makes one wonder.

      Makes you wonder what, exactly? That this is not a "problem", because "everybody's doing it?" WTF? Look pal, the "problem" is narrow-minded, clueless misogynist views like that.

      Wow! Just wow! I was thinking the same thing myself, except I put "this is a societal problem, not one just in the academic community," after 'Makes one wonder'. Way to go in projecting your fears and negativity on others.

      Um, no... Observing that the "problem" is indeed widespread (i.e. a "societal problem") and that this in no way excuses any single community's misogyny is hardly "projecting" anything.

      True enough. But you jumped down OP's throat when he or she made a statement that supports your point of view. I'd hate to see how you deal with people who disagree with you.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    173. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I mean, seriously!
      Do you think these are place women really want strange men to proposition them for sex?

      Dark Alleyways
      In the park at night
      In a low traffic stairwell of a near empty building
      In an underground parking garage
      In an elevator
      On the subway
      Just before she opens the front door to her inner city house at 3AM in the morning

      Because if you do, then you are the one with a serious problem.

      On the other hand, elevegator guy could have have quietly asked her on the way to the elevator and if she said 'no', he could let her catch the elevator on her own. But he waited until it was enclosed space with nobody watching. You don't see why this might not be cool?

    174. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont need no MANS (she used an s) to hold no doors fo' me

      The truf comes out. Ganjadude is a racist prick who hates niggers.

    175. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      You did suggest that.
      Do you think walking up to strange women when they are alone with no prospect of immediate help around and propositioning them for sex is polite?
      Why would anyone do that, oh yes ... certainly in your experience this happens.
      Something 'like' this happened to my GF, she wrecked his face. A drunk fucktard lingering in her street and 'waiting for girls' passing by. The other girls inly yelled 'fuck your self'.

      A year later for other reasons she told that a random police officer, who immediately asked for a description and encouraged her to call the police next time: regardless how she handled the situation.

      Anyway .. got distracted :) perhaps I misunderstood your previous post.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    176. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I mean seriously!
      For fuck sake read what you have posted two posts back.
      What has my answer to do with the bullshit you wrote in the post parent to this?
      Who in his sane mind asks a random women he never has met before about 'sex'?
      So what is your nonsense post/accusion about?

      You have serious problems! Don't interpret bullshit into other peoples posts!

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    177. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rude or not, the witnesses make it easier to convince the jury that both you and her read and understood the contract in full before signing it. Witnesses are not strictly necessary as both your lawyers should be present, and only a complete madman wouldn't have their lawyer analyze the contract for any traps.

    178. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Adults don't talk that way all the time. Honest. If someone is saying fuck all the time at work, then HR needs to get involved. This is the work place, act like professionals. We get emails currently saying "we have customers in the building this week, please be careful what you say", and it's not only about giving away product secrets but to make sure that we don't appear to be some startup run by twenty somethings. Sure, maybe the CEO swears a bit, but that CEO stops swearing when the customers come around (even Jobs and Ballmer), but if there's a department that just can't stop swearing like they're watching HBO then they do get a bad reputation from the rest of the company.

      There's the phrase "swearing like a sailor", but in my experience when military people are around civilians at home, they are highly respectful and keep the language civilized.

      I'd say that 95% of the people I hear saying fuck all the time in public or using fucking as a universal adjective are kids (teens or twenty somethings, usually without a job).

    179. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      No I didn't. I specifically said twice that it does not need to be within earshot.

      Why would anyone do that, oh yes ... certainly in your experience this happens.

      http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/E...

      That's what this subthread is about.

    180. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My sister was doing some kind of biology/ecology work in college, and had an offer to go to Florida over the next summer to help a researcher observe alligators. It took a while before she realized he was expecting to share a tent with her. Decided she had to drop that program, and was really annoyed about it; I don't know if there were any repercussions for him.

    181. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      I'm aware of what I posted. Let me quote it to you.

      If you don't want to look like a creep - ask the girl to your room around witnesses (they don't have to hear, just as long as you make it feel safe for her to refuse).

      IE., sat at the bar together where there are other patrons in the bar, a bartender and maybe some security.

      Or maybe in lobby of the hotel as you both walk towards the elevator where there is a receptionist and maybe some security and other hotel guests milling around.

      Who in his sane mind asks a random women he never has met before about 'sex'?

      Elevator Guy.

      So what is your nonsense post/accusion about?

      ElevatorGate.

      Don't interpret bullshit into other peoples posts!

      You haven't laid any groundwork of my interpreting other people's posts, so this random nonsense is strange to see.

    182. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we mod you down because we're tired of hearing the same old useless drivel posted by you, day after day, thread after thread. Take the hint and just go to Reddit.

    183. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      My point is (and sorry, that I missed the 'they have not to hear') stuff like this is not happening anyway.
      So your 'advice' is rather mood.
      No one who lives in a sane world and has 'sane' mind is 'proposing' anything to a woman he never has talked to before.
      Ofc it is perfectly fine to become acquainted to a girl, e.g at the bar in the hotel, and ask her in the elevator what 'her plans' are. And ofc it might be more 'secure' to ask her in the hotel reception on the way to the elevator instead.
      Nevertheless your first two posts I answered to look completely 'out of context'.

      And your further answers - half accusing me to be a moldster - make your previous posts not look better!

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    184. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't have to suck I kant reed's cock, bra.

    185. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you say that it doesn't matter why you hold this position, what you really mean is that you know that the reason is a bad one, and that you just don't want to think about it because it makes you uncomfortable with what a piss-poor excuse for a man you are. In other words, you are insecure that women will do your job better than you, and you know it, and you can't handle it.

      Also, if you go out of your way to tell someone that you don't value their approval when the subject was never brought up, that means you are utterly consumed with the need for their approval.

    186. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Adults don't talk that way all the time. Honest. If someone is saying fuck all the time at work, then HR needs to get involved. This is the work place, act like professionals.

      That was in a university. At that time, we had a strong principle of academic freedom, and it would have been inappropriate and a violation of their AAUP contracts for HR to say anything.

      My freshman physics professor, who was a great teacher, was teaching in the U.S. for the first time in several years, because he had been blacklisted during the McCarthy days. An oceanography professor had escaped Nazi Germany. One of my art teachers was arrested in an obscenity case. So they were very defensive of free speech.

      One of the leading Supreme Court cases in free speech was the one known as the "Fuck the Draft" case. So even the Supreme Court defended free speech back then.

      Now, we have much less free speech. In the "Bong Hits for Jesus" case, the Supreme Court took a dive.

      It's not a coincidence that several college teachers who have been fired by their administrations, over the objections of the faculty, "Not for what he said but the manner in which he said it," had criticized Israel, like Norman Finkelstein and Steve Salaita. Salaita was fired after a billionaire contributor said he wouldn't give the university any more money. Or search Google for "professor fired" to get an idea of the state of free speech in America.

      The original PLOS article was about the academic profession. That's an environment in which we try to give people maximum freedom.

      Either you have free speech or you don't. As Lennie Bruce said, if you can't say "Fuck", you can't say "Fuck the government." And now, sure enough, we can't say either.

    187. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's mostly homosexual harassment of men. Other words, it's almost always men doing the assaulting, even when men are the victims.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    188. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      This study is about unwanted sexual contact, not rape.

      Your reading comprehension is not as good as you think it is.

      The experiences described by our respondents ranged from inadvertent alienating behavior, to unwanted verbal and physical sexual advances, to, most troublingly, sexual assault including rape.

      For somebody who says that we should respect women, your language towards someone you disagree with is too snarky and disrespectful for me to want to continue this discussion.

    189. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I find it interesting that on the one hand we have complaints about men being assaulted not being taken seriously, while at the same time trying to dismiss complaints by women as trivial.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    190. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The problem is that harassment is subjective, so you can only ask for people's opinions rather than setting an absolute standard.

      Take your nice sweater example. If said casually it would just be friendly small talk. If said leeringly while standing uncomfortably close and trying to look down it that would be something else. In between there is a whole spectrum of behaviour and annoying as it is I'm afraid there is no ISO standard to compare it with.

      Looking at very specific examples and asking if people felt uncomfortable is all we can do. Of course, we make a judgement, simply feeling uncomfortable is not in itself harassment.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    191. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      Except we're talking about a specific report of this incident happening. It's called ElevatorGate. Have you looked that up yet?

      I have not even partially accused you of being a molester? Monster? Or whatever. I asked you a rhetorical question to show that what I am saying is perfectly reasonable. IF you are going proposition strange women, don't do it when they're alone with no help or escape. You agree with this position, and go further and say just don't proposition strange women. That's absolutely fine. I've never done either. The MENZ of the internet DEMANDED the right to proposition strange women at 4am and many of them said they were entitled to do so in elevators or wherever else they felt like doing it. There was a whole controversy. Called ElevatorGate. Have you highlighted that phrase and selected 'search Google' yet?

    192. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      Yes, all rape is unwanted sexual contact.
      Not all unwanted sexual contact is rape.

      This was about unwanted sexual contact in general.

    193. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      I made i clear that I was expressing my opinion, not telling you what to do.

      Telling me your opinion of what I should have done is still telling me what I should have done, because you telling me what I should have done is only ever going to be your opinion.

      Does that mean you think I shouldn't express my opinion,

      Nowhere did I say you didn't have the right to express your opinion. I was simply pointing out the irony of you telling me me what I should have said in the same article where you admit that telling other people what they should or should not do or say is beyond your control.

    194. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well he normally does the same thing that you do- resorting to random ad homs about how stupid the other person is because they don't get it, kant reed, or is some kind of psychopath.

    195. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And he's probably correct 90% of the time but don't let those kind of facts deter you from whatever your "cause" is this week.

    196. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The whole white knight defender of the vagina bullshit" doesn't exist.

    197. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      I made i clear that I was expressing my opinion, not telling you what to do.

      Telling me your opinion of what I should have done is still telling me what I should have done, because you telling me what I should have done is only ever going to be your opinion.

      Does that mean you think I shouldn't express my opinion,

      Nowhere did I say you didn't have the right to express your opinion. I was simply pointing out the irony of you telling me me what I should have said in the same article where you admit that telling other people what they should or should not do or say is beyond your control.

      Splitting that hair pretty finely, eh? Please, if you so choose, carry on. Or not. Not my business or concern. Have a lovely day. or not. again, not my business or concern.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    198. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      Well he normally does the same thing that you do- resorting to random ad homs about how stupid the other person is because they don't get it, kant reed, or is some kind of psychopath.

      I'm sorry. Please point out where I made any remarks that could be considered to be ad hominem attacks. My point about reading comprehension was *not* irrelevant to the discussion (and hence, not 'ad hominem'). In fact, It wasn't really even an attack, just an observation.

      Also, I'm not sure who the "he" you're referring to might be. Please enlighten me.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    199. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you joke but you are probably correct here. The issue is not that 71% of all women are being sexually assaulted. Its that 71% of all women "feel assaulted" Somehow in the past 40 years what someones feelings are trump what the actual actions are.

        Saying something sexual, is NOT sexual assault.

      I disagree. The problem is that most men think that the way they sometimes treat women is not sexual assault, when in reality it is. This should be an eye opener for all men to take another look at themselves.

      how many is most? what are the some times that men treat women this way? and what exactly is this treatment? why should all men take another look at themselves, and not just most? this "problem" is so ill defined, it seems that you might be unlikely to solve it, possibly, at some future time. or perhaps you think the solution is to hit men in general over their heads with "something they did" and make them feel eternally guilty.

    200. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't want to look like a creep - ask the girl to your room around witnesses (they don't have to hear, just as long as you make it feel safe for her to refuse). Waiting until your alone in a confined space, if not harassing, is very bad manners to the point of being ungentlemanly. Don't do that, guys.

      yes, because if he asked the girl in front of witnesses, she totally wouldn't humilate the "creep", like she did in a public youtube video. and, he should be gentlemanly because she would never be a fucking bastard, like in a public youtube video. instead of asking for special treatment, why don't women just learn how overcome their discomfort and simply respond to sexual advances in professional manner? "no thank you. leave me alone."

      you can't have a world where no means no until you're willing to say no.

    201. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's mostly homosexual harassment of men. Other words, it's almost always men doing the assaulting, even when men are the victims.

      this reads to me: straight men don't want to be treated by homosexual men like women are treated by straight men.

      it's like sex is a deadly weapon unless you're the one doing the shooting.

    202. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I made i clear that I was expressing my opinion, not telling you what to do.

      Telling me your opinion of what I should have done is still telling me what I should have done, because you telling me what I should have done is only ever going to be your opinion.

      Does that mean you think I shouldn't express my opinion,

      Nowhere did I say you didn't have the right to express your opinion. I was simply pointing out the irony of you telling me me what I should have said in the same article where you admit that telling other people what they should or should not do or say is beyond your control.

      Splitting that hair pretty finely, eh? Please, if you so choose, carry on. Or not. Not my business or concern. Have a lovely day. or not. again, not my business or concern.

      He was correct. Not that it really matters.

      And for something that's "not your concern" you seem to want to get the last word in. Even if it's just saying how much you don't care. Which is also kind of ironic.

    203. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Sique · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, some people have gotten it into their head, that all their behaviour is ok as long as they can wiggle out of any actual criminal law suit. A clear abuse of the word ok, if I've ever seen any.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    204. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      At a recent professional meeting, a woman made suggestive sexual remarks to me about a computer program

      I'm sorry, I don't know how to break this to you gently over the internet, but.. you've been sexually abused. You're a victim of harassment. You should seek support to help you recover.

      Oh hang on - are you a man? No, go fuck yourself.

    205. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Hint, pressing your body up against an unwilling partner is unwanted sexual contact.

      Greeting someone with a hug is not sexual contact, unwanted or otherwise.

      How the fuck is someone meant to know when you do and don't hug anyway.

      It may be a social faux-pas, but trust me, it's equally fucking awkward when you have Aspergers and people actually expect a hug.

      Or are you telling me that all those women I know are actually making sexual overtures when they expect me to hug them?

      So sorry but I give no fucking credibility to a study that treats greeting hugs as 'sexual assault'.

    206. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I've had that too - getting abuse for holding a door open for a woman.

      Clearly she felt that she was a precious snowflake and that I was making an unwanted advance to her.

      Curiously the other 17 men and women I held a door open for that day welcomed my advance, mostly going as far as to actually thank me for it. I guess they appreciated the simple courtesy of holding a door open for them.

    207. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Oh, it's worse than that.

      "Nice dress" is a compliment if a woman says it.
      "Nice dress" is sexual harassment is a man says it.

      I just don't understand this. I can't work with it. It causes me problems.

    208. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Sique · · Score: 1
      Bullshit. You try to read something wrong into the study to make it sound false, but all the falsehoods are just of your making.

      They define "assault" very clearly, and they make clear, that it includes rape, but does not solely mean rape. It's you who equals sexual assault and rape. If you can't make a difference between the whole and a part of the whole, then go to Reading of Scientific Texts 101.

      (Or are you one of the people who also equal crime and murder and chastize people who got beaten up that nothing happened because they still are alive?)

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    209. Re: Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This probably runs Linux under the hood, so...

    210. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mean+pun · · Score: 2

      Hint, pressing your body up against an unwilling partner is unwanted sexual contact.

      Greeting someone with a hug is not sexual contact, unwanted or otherwise.

      No, and women will not interpret it as such, even if you misread a situation and give a hug when it was not expected. There is a big difference between a friendly hug and something sexually suggestive. Duration, for a start.

      How the fuck is someone meant to know when you do and don't hug anyway.

      It may be a social faux-pas, but trust me, it's equally fucking awkward when you have Aspergers and people actually expect a hug.

      Yes, understanding when and when not to hug can be problematic if you don't always read the social signs properly. Similar with social kissing. I think most people have had awkward moments like this. There are huge differences between social groups anyway, so misreading the signs is not such a big deal, as long as you keep it friendly. And you can always err on the safe side.

      Or are you telling me that all those women I know are actually making sexual overtures when they expect me to hug them?

      No, of course not. What point are you trying to make?

      So sorry but I give no fucking credibility to a study that treats greeting hugs as 'sexual assault'.

      Is there any evidence that they do?

    211. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      sexist much?

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    212. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      she was white..... but thanks for trying

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    213. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      fair enough points. Clearly there is a line that should be there yet somehow is gone. Telling someone they look nice today is in NO way harassment and or assault. What you said obviously is. Thats the point im making things that are legit complements are taken as assault and harassment these days.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    214. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see that the line between friendly advice and totalitarianism is very fine... in your mind.

      Just because you don't agree with advice someone gives you, doesn't make it "authoritarian".

    215. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Skarjak · · Score: 1

      This fails to address the point I made, but I guess I should have expected nothing else. :)

    216. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      If you are having difficulty knowing whether a hug is wanted or not, don't hug.
      If you aren't sure about the difference between a welcome friendly consensual greeting hug and an unwanted sexual contact hug - then you are probably a social problem and people are already talking about you behind your back. You referenced Bora Zivkovic. Here is the edited accusation against him which he admitted to:

      "He began describing his own experience of going to a strip club. Then he described himself as “a very sexual person.” Then he told me about his wife’s sexual and mental health history. Then he began telling me about his dissatisfaction with his current sex life with his wife. Then he reminded me that he was “a very sexual person.” Then he told me, in an awful lot of detail, about how he almost had an affair with a younger woman he’d been seeing at conferences.

      . At the end of the meeting, I hugged him, which may seem bizarre; but earlier he’d identified himself as a “hugging person” and so do I, generally, and I was still in shock and trying to smooth over the incident."

      When you have considerable power over someone, veering the conversation towards sexual topics like that, is harassment or at least stupendously inappropriate and creepy, immorally so. It gives the impression (deliberate or not) that in order to get what you want (the thing he has the power to provide) you'll need to know that he is 'a sexually frustrated sexual person who is open to casual sex outside of his marriage'. This is like saying 'You want my contacts? Suck my dick!"

      If you are ignorant of this social interplay - avoid talking explicitly about sex with women you've just met and you should be fine. I don't see any accusaionts against him for sexual assault. What exactly are you trying to say?

    217. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      well 'you' didn't - but the 'side' you are defending did.

    218. Re: Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh my God, why have you been modded down for pointing out the truth? A survey reveals that one in every four women in scince has been sexually assaulted, and the GP shrugs it off as bad methodology: that's how abuse gets covered up by our assumptions and perpetuated

    219. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 1

      This voluntary online survey of academic fieldwork environments primarily shows two things:

      1. These people aren't very good at science (See "voluntary online survey" again).
      2. What science they've done which someone may consider valid serves only to demonstrate that one of the most left-leading, "liberal", feminist groups in the nation (academics, for whom government bureaucrats and main stream media would be their only real competition for the title) is apparently unable to successfully implement "solutions" to sexual harassment they'd confidently proscribe for everyone else to follow.

      A reasonable alternate interpretation to #2, reversing causation, would be that academics are the ones who complain much more about feminist mythology-type topics and propose dramatic solutions because they happen to be the group with the biggest problem in that area, which causes them to be more concerned about it than most folks do.

      Of course, they might also just be caught up in the pettiness which comes from arguing about less and less important things over time, but no one would suggest that...

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
    220. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Reziac · · Score: 1

      See also

      Researching the "Rape Culture" of America
      by Dr. Christina Hoff Sommers

      http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/facul...

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    221. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by megahurts.gr · · Score: 1

      OK, for the past several weeks, I swear, every day, this happens to me: when I have the privilege to mod, nothing worth modding gets posted. And whenever I do not have this privilege, all the interesting posts get posted. Aaaargh!

      --
      This guide is definitive. Reality is frequently inacurate. (from THHGTTG)
    222. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mean+pun · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately, some people have gotten it into their heads that they have a right to not feel awkard, and that feeling awkward makes them "violated". A clear abuse of the word, if I've ever seen any.

      If a woman ask men kindly not to do some kinds of things because it makes her feel awkward (and it should be obvious even without asking), and if a man then does it anyway, the word `violated' seems pretty accurate to me. He's not interested in her comfort, he's just interested in is own jollies.

    223. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      No, because if that is what the poster was referencing, "going on a tear" was actually saying "guys, don't do that", with the context being: sexual propositioning a stranger in an enclosed space in a foreign country at 4 AM after having just listened to the person you're propositioning give a presentation that included discussion on how the constant sexual propositions she received at these conferences made her uncomfortable.

      THAT in turn led to her receiving a never-ending wave of abuse, including rape and death threats, and including having one of the most prominent male voices in the movement insultingly state that women in the west shouldn't complain about sexism because women in Islamic countries have it a lot worse.

      It was after all THAT, that she, quite rightly, started going on a tear.

      I really wonder if all that "sexual harassment" is really harassment. Suppose I was single and I asked a co-worker out, is that wrong. Do I have to wait until we both get home, to search out her phone number and call her from home?

      Women put on lipstick, get hair and nails done, put jewelery in their earlobes and navel cavity, apply some perfume, and wear low cut tops to highlight the valley between, and wear up-lifting bras for one reason -- to feel feminine, to catch the eyes of males, to receive complements and perhaps, because it is the mode. So, if you advertise your femininity, and you receive messages that hurt your feelings, is it any wonder why? My opinion is that it is only harassment if there was an invitation or insinuation for physical contact, or if a person told a second person, "I'd like to go all the way with her", while she overhears it.

      Some women like to feel sexy, and recognize what it is, and others, interpret sexually based remarks the wrong way. Again, no to touch, no harm to responding to "sexy" with politeness, but not crudeness.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    224. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      I addressed the only part of your point that was worth addressing. You tried to use something Dawkins tweeted as support for your position. Dawkins has since realized he was using a logical fallacy and apologized (rightfully so). Without that support the rest of your stupid argument falls on its face so I didn't feel I needed to waste any time on it.

    225. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think she even claimed she was harassed. She just said "Don't do that" and explained why. I suspect the subsequent misogyny conversation she's apparently having is really more about the uninformed butthurt of dudes who get shot down a lot failing to actually respond to what was said in the context it was said in and raging against t3h unfairness! The real problem isn't misogyny. It's sexual frustration and social cluelessness.

      So, to all the ragers out there:

      Step 1. You have a hand, most likely two and unprecedented access to free porn that I didn't have even back when the internet was barely-regulated. Use both and remember, the porn is pure fiction. It's never like that. Don't try to make it like that. Try not to develop an excessively specific fetish about that. It will only make things harder for you if you do. Yes, you clearly do need to get laid but try not to let that get in the way of getting laid. Have no shame. As many times a day as needed to keep yourself from acting like complete batshit around women. In my teens/20s, I was a twice a day man.

      Step 2. Learn enough social graces that you too can easily identify how awkward and uncomfortable it is to be propositioned on an elevator about anything, much less being asked back to someone's room just for coffee (it's never "just" coffee when preceded by "You're attractive" and it's 4 fucking am). If that's still not clicking for you, imagine somebody wants you tell them what you really think of their lifelong pursuit of becoming an accomplished poet after reading some of their godawful teenage angst bullshit and you've got 20 floors worth of uncomfortable rejection silence to look forward to if you're completely honest with them. Not putting somebody in a position like that requires empathy and forethought and learning from your mistakes.

      You'll notice even people who know each other well will often clam up on the elevator. It's for this reason. There's too much risk of putting somebody in a bad space with no escape plan if an uncomfortable topic is stumbled upon.

    226. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But when I came back recently, the first thing I noticed was that the community is awful
      I stopped posting with any frequency about 4 years ago after I realized the community had tipped into moron territory. The good people largely left, the morons and ideologues stayed.

      I still occasionally read the comments, and consistently see the same dumb comments from the same people as 10 years ago. It's not all men either. Jane Q Public, and Girl in training post consistently snarky, dumb and ideological posts as ever. I read the posts, notice it's something highly rated, but poor quality, and notice it's an old regular I've hated for years. I really wish Slashdot had a kill feature so d-bags don't show up.

    227. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Kielistic · · Score: 1

      I didn't cherry pick anything. He went on some absurd tirade about how people were flagging his inflammatory comments as flamebait. I pointed out the exact sentences that gave me the impression that i kan reed was disregarding all criticism as coming from horrible people that he is "morally superior" to. There was nothing reasonable about what he said and definitely not how he said it.

      So far I have received no clarification as to how I misinterpreted the statements. Just a repetition of "I don't label everyone that disagrees with me as morally inferior it just so happens that they are morally inferior". When he acts like a total dickhead himself no one has any obligation to not be a dickhead back. I don't expect either of you will admit to this behaviour; you will just continually repeat your vague rationalizations.

      You're projecting here. What I see is him disagreeing with people who are basically asshole MRAs and you jumping all over him accusing him of being a "straw feminist" whatever the fuck that is. You are thereby getting a very smug feeling of superiority over him (and now presumably me) which is exactly what you're accusing him of.

      I am projecting nothing. i kan reed made inflammatory comments and decided to act like a child after being modded flamebait. I told him why he was modded flamebait- that is not being an asshole. Whereas as soon as I say something you do not like you start trying to label me with words you think are insults like "MRA", "misogynist", "asshole".

      I have a pretty strong suspicion that you both know what a straw-feminist is. A straw-feminist is a culmination of bad traits attributed to feminists that feminists claim "feminists aren't like that". To use i kan reed's own straw-feminist strawman defense:

      feminism is evil and actively attacking poor helpless men.

      Feminists say feminist critics accuse all feminists of being that (aka straw-feminist). Now that is actually a strawman fallacy accusing others of making a strawman fallacy (straw-ception). What feminist critics actually say is feminists behave in deplorable and extremely obnoxious ways. Being completely dishonest and more attached to their own sense of superiority than actually helping anyone. To again use i kan reed's own words:

      And I don't give a fuck if you think I'm being "morally superior" to people whose behaviors are outright reprehensible.

    228. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not sexism if it's true.

      Probably the only reason you think it's not true is because all that "ganja" has turned your disgusting penis into a limp little noodle, "ganjadude."

      But you keep on coming into conversations like this trying to oppress women as if there's no problem, anyway, so it's clear you're furiously projecting, wishing that little piston still worked.

      Worm.

    229. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly there is a line that should be there yet somehow is gone

      Because you and others like you are here arguing that "the line" should have nothing to do with how your sexual innuendo makes its recipient feel, that it's only about the "intent" of the person offering it up, as if putting a turd on a silver platter and fancy crystal will change its essential turdy nature.

      Don't bemoan the "loss of a line" when you are the one who is doing your damnedest to erase the fucking line.

    230. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      If you think she's going to humiliate you, and that worries you. Don't hit on her.

      She didn't humiliate him on a youtube video. She said the conference was great and there were lots of people that got what she was trying to say about the way women were treated in the community, except this one guy, it was like 4AM and she said she was going to bed, she walked onto an elevator and a man got on with her. '"I'd like to talk more, want to come to my room for coffee". "Guys - don't do that. It made me uncomfortable. A single woman, in a foreign country, at 4AM in a hotel elevator. Don't ask me to your room after I've spent the day talking about sexualising makes me feel uncomfortable." {paraphrased semi quote} That's not humiliation, that's calmly explaining her position and why she thinks guys shouldn't do that. What part of your brain flips out at a person calmly asserting their own boundaries that makes you think it is humiliating?

      Women will get over their discomfort when a certain and significant percentage of men don't get angry at women who decline their sexual advances.

      I'm not sure what women you have tried hitting on, or how you are doing it - but if you are not getting reactions like 'no thank you', it's probably because you are being an asshole. The last time a female humiliated me for showing an interest and making a move was when I was 14. Hey,if you are generalising all women as needing to 'learn how to cope with angry men calling them a bitch for not wanting to sleep with them', maybe that says something about how you view women, and thus talk to them, which they pick up on, and thus humiliate you as a tool to get you to change whatever is causing them to react that way.

      The fact that you don't see why you should be a gentleman on the grounds that some women are unpleasant is the final clue that you're doing it wrong.

    231. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      Well in this specific example, because he followed her into an otherwise empty elevator. But men can use their legs to get themselves alone with women in all manner of creative ways. Have you heard of walking?

    232. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      What attitude? I mean if you think it's remotely smart to try and hit on a feminist in an empty elevator go right ahead. But a) you'll probably make her feel uncomfortable rather than sexually interested b) she may escalate the situation in ways you don't like.

      There is no order. It is advice. Ignore it if you like, but that means you are a bit of a creep who worries women rather than attracting them.

    233. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Skarjak · · Score: 1

      Dawkins, to my knowledge, said that women here shouldn't complain because women have it worse elsewhere. This has nothing to do with what I wrote. If you let the little wheels turn in your head, you'll see that I'm basically saying that, unlike what many people in the extreme left think, it is actually possible to judge whether it is reasonable for someone to feel a certain way. Basically, if a situation is only awkward, and you claim to be violated, then other people have the right to judge that you are exaggerating. This is trivially true to prove since I could claim at any moment, in bad faith, to be violated by any mundane action, and you would call me out on it. When people claim to have certain feelings, that does not mean that we should stop and act immediately to please them. Anyone can claim to feel anything. We only have to act if we can show that the action taken was actually harmful.

    234. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Skarjak · · Score: 1

      Then I guess we're going to have to just disagree on this one. The dude in the original story had merely invited her for coffee and she refused. To my knowledge that was the end of that. They then spent an uncomfortable elevator ride. I really don't see why anyone should feel violated by this. If he'd really been insistent and pushy, then maybe you could really say that he'd gone too far.

      I have a feeling this comment thread is basically just restating stuff that was said back then.

    235. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      [Invalid premise] She never claimed that she was violated while in the elevator. I do however agree that it is possible to judge whether it is reasonable for someone to feel a certain way. That is how I know that it's unreasonable for the guys in your camp to feel sooo upset over this specific incident. The extent of overreaction (really, death threats?) only highlights that she has a valid point.

    236. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by strikethree · · Score: 1

      If you don't want to look like a creep - ask the girl to your room around witnesses (they don't have to hear, just as long as you make it feel safe for her to refuse).

      I am sure you are not aware of this but many guys are shy. They do not want to have the world witness them getting turned down in a forceful and rude manner by some girl they thought was not actually a bitch.

      This kind of shit makes me want to hate women and treat them like animals. Fuck them and their requirements for special treatment. You know what? Fuck you for supporting that shit.

      People are people. Women are people. Men are people. Women do not deserve special treatment just because they have been treated like shit in some cultures and some periods of time.

      They are the weaker sex so therefore they deserve special rules? Fine. But to be balanced, if one thing is given, another must be taken. Remember that.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    237. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it wrong for me to tell a coworker "Nice dress" or "Cool tie"?

      some people misinterpret compliments as sexual harassment, and that's just plain dumb.

      listen to the advice of Facebones is my advice https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    238. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Flirtation isn't sexual harassment.

      Yeah, you subtly flirt; but that creepy guy over there annoying that woman with crude sexual innuendos and inappropriate invasioin of her body space is...oh you're looking in a mirror.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    239. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Splitting that hair pretty finely, eh?

      No. I didn't come anywhere close to saying you couldn't express your opinion, and I told you that explicitly. You misread what I said, so the problem is yours.

    240. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      I disagree. I think the problem is that there are women in the workforce serving the needs of rich old bastards instead of taking care of their husband and children.

      There are zero women in my workplace. I love it.

      You know, it's only flamebait or troll if it's a fake position crafted to instigate. It doesn't matter if you hate what I think, if I genuinely believe what I say, I'm not trolling.

      I'm not trolling.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    241. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Most women develop the social competence to deal with these situations by age 14.

    242. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      I am sure you are not aware of this but many guys are shy. They do not want to have the world witness them getting turned down in a forceful and rude manner by some girl they thought was not actually a bitch.

      I am sure you are not aware of this but so are many women. Among other things I suffer from anxiety and paranoia. On the other hand, I've managed to have sexual partners my entire adult life.

      But fine - treat all women like they are bitches just in case they are. See how that works out for you.

      Incidentally, if women are turning you down like this? This is a sign to change tactics. And that doesn't involve isolating women and making sexual advances on them. I imagine, like me, you are not a looker. So if you approach a woman in a context that means the approach is a sexual one, you may get a direct answer, it might be rude but that's people for you. There's probably a reason like she used to turn people down gently but too many guys didn't get the hints. Who knows? Either way, maybe you shouldn't be walking up to women in bars and asking them if they want to dance/drink etc unless you are hotter than the girl you are hitting on (to sum up a complex situation crudely) or you can take lots of rejections in the hope of the occasional jackpot.

      This kind of shit makes me want to hate women and treat them like animals. Fuck them and their requirements for special treatment. You know what? Fuck you for supporting that shit.

      OK, I get it. You are a angry hate filled pipsqueak that doesn't know how to approach women without them telling him to fuck off. Keep it up, I'm sure it's really smart and it'll totally get you laid.

      People are people. Women are people. Men are people. Women do not deserve special treatment just because they have been treated like shit in some cultures and some periods of time.

      Nobody is asking you to treat women 'special'. But it's probably a good idea to give special treatment to someone who you want to fuck, even if you have the attitude you do. But more importantly, if you aren't able to realize that being a woman is a different experience than being a man with different perspectives and different fears I can't help you. If you think that women should feel perfectly safe alone with strange men in elevators may I remind you of Ray Rice?

      They are the weaker sex so therefore they deserve special rules? Fine. But to be balanced, if one thing is given, another must be taken. Remember that.

      All fear the Internet Tough Guy!

      The thing is, women have a lot more to lose in recreational sex with strangers of the opposite sex than men do. If you can't recognize that element of the psychology of women, you are going to continue to have women tell you to fuck off.

    243. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      ok coward. we got it. you have a small penis

      it IS sexism when you used the term "men" If you said "some men" you might have some backing but you didnt. you are just a pathetic little troll

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    244. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Lol, I oversaw your (they don't need to hear it) phrase .... and now you make such a fuzz ...

      I'm not interested in ElevatorGate stories ... so no, I have not googled it :D

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    245. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      I'm making a fuss? Let's review your input:

      In what retarded world do you live that you consider to ask a girl in public: "you wanna fuck me?" is okey?

      Why would anyone do that, oh yes ... certainly in your experience this happens.

      For fuck sake read what you have posted two posts back.
      What has my answer to do with the bullshit you wrote in the post parent to this?
      Who in his sane mind asks a random women he never has met before about 'sex'?
      So what is your nonsense post/accusion about?

      You have serious problems! Don't interpret bullshit into other peoples posts!

      Now, in case you were wondering - that's making a fuss. I am just answering your queries, if that bothers you, you don't have to actually post.

      I'm not interested in ElevatorGate stories ... so no, I have not googled it :D

      If you aren't interested in the answer to your questions. Don't ask them.

    246. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I don't think an "ElevatorGate" is an answer to any question I made.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    247. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      I don't think an "ElevatorGate" is an answer to any question I made.

      It's not an ElevatorGate, it's a scandal/controversy that occurred in an elevator when a man asked a woman he has never met before about 'sex'. Scandals sometimes get the suffix -gate attached to them in 'homage' to the Watergate scandal. The Elevatorgate scandal was the context of the entire discussion and was therefore exatly what my 'nonsense' post/accusation was about. Therefore this answers the following two questions:

      Who in his sane mind asks a random women he never has met before about 'sex'?
      So what is your nonsense post/accusion about?

      And also rebuts your claim that

      My point is...stuff like this is not happening anyway.

      Had you Googled this you would have discovered this information much faster than having me type this out for you.

    248. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't believe it, though. You desperately want to, but you know you're full of shit. It's why you're such a whiny little bitch. You can't handle the cognitive dissonance.

    249. Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think she's going to humiliate you, and that worries you. Don't hit on her.

      oh sure, it's the guy's fault. this sounds familiar...

      She didn't humiliate him on a youtube video.

      her expression, demeanor, and tone of voice were very condescending; as in trying to humiliate. i don't understand how you can argue this point. by her own account, he tried to be discreet, polite, and non-threatening. she may have been put off and nervous at the time, but given time to think about it, she decided the she should hit back in a humiliating and very public manner?

      if it were me, i'd be humilated, and she would have lost a discreet, respectful, and non-threatening ally. perhaps she would rather surround herself with subservient males, who tolerate getting slapped around when they step out of line? this would not be equality.

      I'm not sure what women you have tried hitting on, or how you are doing it - but if you are not getting reactions like 'no thank you', it's probably because you are being an asshole.

      you have no basis for this supposition.

      Hey,if you are generalising all women as needing to 'learn how to cope with angry men calling them a bitch for not wanting to sleep with them', maybe that says something about how you view women, and thus talk to them, which they pick up on, and thus humiliate you as a tool to get you to change whatever is causing them to react that way.

      you have tried to generalize men this way several times now. and, i repeat: by her own account, he was discreet, polite, and non-threatening. so, your statements have no relevance here.

      The fact that you don't see why you should be a gentleman on the grounds that some women are unpleasant is the final clue that you're doing it wrong.

      once again, you have no basis for this supposition. would your women friends appreciate if you made such generalizations, and as well the admonishment in your first line, towards women?

  2. Repeat? by jythie · · Score: 1

    Did not this exact same study get a piece on slashdot a few months ago when it was published?

    1. Re:Repeat? by rotorbudd · · Score: 1

      "get a piece"

      I saw what you did there.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it, but artillery is addressed to " Whom It May concern"
    2. Re:Repeat? by denzacar · · Score: 1

      And it was placed on the front page by the same editor, Soulskill.
      http://science.slashdot.org/st...

      Considering how long ago 1998 was, I think that it's time to start taking in account things like possible early onset senility of the editors.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    3. Re: Repeat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are editors!? I thought Slashdot was run by three highly trained monkeys.

    4. Re: Repeat? by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      "Highly" trained?

  3. More leftwing feminist hysteria... by pigiron · · Score: 0

    they will always find some issue to bash men with.

    1. Re:More leftwing feminist hysteria... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pigiron, are you secretly Sean Hannity?

      You know, the one who said that Ray Rice was the real victim of domestic abuse because he lost his job.

      And then said capital, not corporal, punishment for kids was fine because what's, next getting arrested for teaching them being gay is wrong.

    2. Re:More leftwing feminist hysteria... by pigiron · · Score: 1

      Being gay is not wrong; it's merely disgusting. And Sean Hannity is an authoritarian lackey of the establishment who presents a false faux "conservative" honey trap to whites.

      The sooner we get on with exterminating these war-mongering corporate Republicrat spokesmen on Fox and MSNBC, the better.

      Resist "Diversity"!

    3. Re:More leftwing feminist hysteria... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pigiron, are you secretly Sean Hannity?

      You know, the one who said that Ray Rice was the real victim of domestic abuse because he lost his job.

      And then said capital, not corporal, punishment for kids was fine because what's, next getting arrested for teaching them being gay is wrong.

      Lies.

      a guest on his show made the statement about Ray Rice, not him. http://crooksandliars.com/2014/09/hannity-guest-blames-janay-rice-spitting

      Your third sentence is also an incomplete and inaccurate paraphrase of what he actually said: http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/09/17/3568452/hannity-parents-gay-not-normal/

      Keep making up complete lies, seems to work for you.

  4. Geeks Assaulting Geeks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe it's just the case of these people not really groking human interaction.

  5. Moving the goalposts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where can "sexual assault" be defined as "an offensive comment"?

    1. Re:Moving the goalposts by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Where can "sexual assault" be defined as "an offensive comment"?

      Not in this study. There had to be physical contact for it to be assault.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Moving the goalposts by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And that's a recurring problem in these discussions. That the sexists will imagine a strawman version of the methodology in order to dismiss it. Strawmanning these kinds of concerns is one of two tools in their toolbox. The other is "ignore this, there's [other vaguely comparable problem] so it's balanced" as if the correct thing to do isn't addressing both issues.

    3. Re:Moving the goalposts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh fuck off you SJW idiot. People react negatively because people just like you made the definitions such things as harsh words and looking at people the wrong way. It's become a bit more sensible in most places due to the push-back, but many people still remember the ridiculousness. People like YOU hurt more women than any other factor and you stop the adoption of social constructs that would actually protect women. How do you do this? You bitch and moan about all the wrong things and spend all your time attacking "the bad guys" so you can feel somehow superior.

      You don't give a shit about women, all of your shitposting is to pat yourself on the ego.

    4. Re:Moving the goalposts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, its the same deficient study.

      http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/07/16/2130242/sexual-harassment-is-common-in-scientific-fieldwork

    5. Re:Moving the goalposts by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      No. It's a recurring problem in these discussions because radical feminists will redefine terms. So it's hard to know at any one time whose definition you are dealing with. Are you dealing with something sane or are you dealing with something that's been "trumped up" in order to push an agenda?

      You can't trust any random study to be free from such biases.

      Then you end up with the basic magnitude problems that occur when dire claims fail to meet basic sanity with respect to numeracy.

      If you're actually numerate, some of these claims are just incredible on their face.

      I don't think most of the people pushing them fully understand the implications.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    6. Re:Moving the goalposts by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      No, we clearly saw the OP redefine the terms, and the first reply chastise the liar.

      You can make up a narrative like that for yourself, if you wish, but I was clearly correct in this particular case.

      So, shut up.

    7. Re:Moving the goalposts by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      And so you use that strawman, in response to me saying people like you strawman, and you cite no evidence it's real.

      Good fucking job.

      You can impugn my character all you want. Calling out people who are perpetuating lies on the internet is seen as perfectly reasonable in other discussions, but so you random ACs will bring the wrath of god if you ever dare to call misogynistic shitfucks on it.

    8. Re:Moving the goalposts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you're a fucking idiot as usual. You refer to "Anonymous Coward" as a "Sexist" without any evidence. You immediately paint the entire opposition to your fucked-up, brainwashed belief as "The Bad Guy", furiously stroking yourself to the idea that you're so much more enlightened and humanized than they, all the while spouting bullshit nonsense about your delusions of what the other side believes, says, or does. You ignore the very question that could have spawned OP's confusion:
      "Have you ever experienced physical sexual harassment" -- behind the one-way mirror the question makes sense as "This is the ASSAULT question!", but in the scope of the questionnaire, it may have simply sounded redundant ("Oh, was my sexual harassment about physical beauty or features?").

      Ignore that, though. Fail to see the argument from anyone's side but your own. You're arguing that when a kid keeps crying "Wolf" it should bring attention to the wolf problem, rather than desensitize people to that boy's lies. When someone tells you "Let me know when that kid actually SEES a fucking wolf, and I'll care", you tend to shit yourself screaming "DON'T YOU KNOW THAT TEN MILLION KIDS ARE EATEN BY WOLVES EVERY SECOND?!?!?!" which only further convinces everyone on Slashdot that you're a fucking idiot and that wolves aren't a problem -- even if they are. Every time I see you post (which is far too often) it delegitimizes the size you're arguing for.

    9. Re:Moving the goalposts by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Okay, the fact that this isn't even an argument that is cohesive makes it kinda hard to deconstruct.

      I'll address the only clear point you managed to make though.

      It's not wrong to call the recurring clearly arbitrary dismissal of female concerns "sexist". That's what's motivating it.

    10. Re:Moving the goalposts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look dude, no amount of white knighting on /. is gonna get you laid- not even by the gay dudes on here so just STFU already!

    11. Re:Moving the goalposts by __aaluto8585 · · Score: 1

      Where are you guys getting this 'radical feminists' shit from anyway, given the overuse of certain terms like agenda, sounds like echoes of Fox and 'conservative' radio shitshows. Anyhow, the article or i kan reed has yet to make any 'radical' demands or remarks, I would actually go far as to say that they are fairly conservative liberal arguments that point towards problems in the path toward a superficial gender equity. The study clearly defines its terms and methodology, you can keep beating ghosts, or straw women as some call it, but as with any ghosts, they are your frustrations manifest in your imaginary, so save yourself the trouble and your arms the strain and maybe listen for a change, perhaps there are other people who are right about certain things that you might not know about? People can still learn you know, its not like we are cast in stone after puberty.

  6. I FIND THIS HIGHLY... by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

    "I find this highly... Illogical."

    BTW: What's with the adverb, Spock? A thing is in the category of logical distribution, or it is not. The presumption "Highly" is an illogical value judgement.

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re:I FIND THIS HIGHLY... by neoritter · · Score: 1

      Because there is actually nothing logical about Vulcans.

    2. Re:I FIND THIS HIGHLY... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a little [illogical] to say a tomato is a vegetable. It's very [illogical] to say it's a suspension bridge.

    3. Re:I FIND THIS HIGHLY... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There you go, calling all female Vulcans illogical. They find that extremely offensive, and consider it to be sexual assault.

    4. Re:I FIND THIS HIGHLY... by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      It's a little [illogical] to say a tomato is a vegetable. It's very [illogical] to say it's a suspension bridge.

      Logic is a binary function. Something is in a logical set - or it is not. Being illogical is not a synonym for being mistaken. Degrees of precision are irrelevant for set inclusion. Fuzzy logic is not logic.

      BTW: It is illogical to conclude that a Tomato in NOT a vegetable, simply because it belongs to a taxonomical subclass, "fruit". It as if I were to say your testicle is not animal.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    5. Re:I FIND THIS HIGHLY... by Coryoth · · Score: 1

      Logic is a binary function. Something is in a logical set - or it is not. Being illogical is not a synonym for being mistaken. Degrees of precision are irrelevant for set inclusion. Fuzzy logic is not logic.

      Fuzzy logic is logic. So are linear logic, intuitionistic logic, temporal logic, modal logic, and categorical logic. Just because you only learned Boolean logic doesn't mean there aren't well developed consistent logics beyond that. In practice bivalent logics are the exceptions.

  7. More data by pigiron · · Score: 1

    "Science" doesn't have a problem. It merely has more data points to analyze.

  8. Reporting bias? by mattventura · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've got to think that women are more likely to actually report sexual harassment than men are. Probably wouldn't make up the entire difference, but would still be something to think about.

    1. Re:Reporting bias? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Most of the harassment women experienced was from supervisors.
      Most of the harassment men experienced was from peers.

      Of course, there's always the grey area, "if someone says I'm handsome, is that harassment, or is it a compliment?"

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re: Reporting bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also consider this: when a man reports a gay man for sexual harassment, the gay man can easily claim he's being discriminated against if he's fired. A woman reports sexual harassment against a straight man? Sayonara, chauvinist.

    3. Re:Reporting bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, so to solve this problem all we need to do is increase the number of men complaining about sexual harassment, and once we reach parity we can calm down about it?

    4. Re:Reporting bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a compliment. The fact you have trouble with this, while finding the time to troll, is not surprising.

    5. Re:Reporting bias? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      It is true that women are more likely to report sexual assault(these days) than men. But the differences aren't tremendously dramatic. Google scholar is being awful and not helping me find the study, but I seem to recall it was in the neighborhood of 30% for women and more like 20% for men.

      That's a dramatic enough difference to be quite concerned about how we treat male sexuality, but not so much as to cover the differences seen here.

    6. Re:Reporting bias? by pla · · Score: 2

      I've got to think that women are more likely to actually report sexual harassment than men are.

      I don't think that rates of reporting substantially undermine the presence of a problem, but I do have to agree with you.

      Men learn from a young age that we crave sex, think about it constantly, would bang anything with enough paper bags available, blah blah blah. And while most of us realize that doesn't actually hold true, we tend to passively accept it as part of our social identity. Thus, when some troll-woman flirts a little too shamelessly or even grabs your ass as you walk by (which in this study would have counted as an assault), we just brush it off and even take it as flattering (even while thinking "do... NOT... want!").

      I would therefore agree that we very likely see a serious reporting bias here that tips the scales toward the female side. That said, where do we draw the line (for both genders) between "testing the waters" and "harassment"? Clearly it doesn't "hurt" those men who just brush it off and move on with their day; do we seriously accept, in the modern world, that females count as emotionally weaker and unable to bear similar compliments from ugly guys?

      Personally, I consider this issue more complex than "just don't do it" (which will no doubt enrage the SJWs, but, fuck 'em)... We exist as a sexual species, and no amount of social conditioning can change that fact; on the flip side of that, clearly some people don't get the fact that "no" doesn't mean "try again later".

    7. Re:Reporting bias? by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Women are more likely to be the subject of a sexual advance because men are expected to initiate courtship. Differing social expectations and indoctrination will dictate that women find any advances more objectionable then would men regardless of the level of genuine menace the represent.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    8. Re:Reporting bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you feel the same about them, it's a compliment, otherwise it's harassment

    9. Re:Reporting bias? by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      The questions on the test make it impossible to known if male supervisors were likely to harass women more, or if there were simply more male superiors.

      There isn't a separate section that says "if you had a female superior."

    10. Re:Reporting bias? by neoritter · · Score: 1

      ...clearly some people don't get the fact that "no" doesn't mean "try again later".

      Popular culture certainly doesn't help this. I'm willing to bet that if you look at the rom-coms that came out in the last few years, you'd see at least half of them have a suitor continue even after the love interest has said or expressed what effectively means "no."

    11. Re:Reporting bias? by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      I'm going based on what the paper says here. It seems not all the questions asked were listed in the primary paper. Quote:

      Such behaviors aimed at men originated primarily from peers, whereas such behaviors aimed at women primarily originated from individuals the respondent identified as superior to them in the field site professional hierarchy (Figure 2B).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    12. Re:Reporting bias? by meta-monkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Also, whether a woman finds an advance to be "harassment" or not depends on whether or not she's interested in the man.

      So let that be a lesson to you. If you want to avoid harassment:

      1) Be handsome

      2) Be attractive

      3) Don't be unattractive

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    13. Re:Reporting bias? by radtea · · Score: 1

      I've never been able to find any reliable under-reporting data for men, so this would be extremely interesting to see.

      A priori I find it fairly implausible that men failing to report sexual assault is a lot more common than women, but would love to see the data. One informal observation is that in the multi-thousand-comment threads that are spawned after every accusation leveled at a public figure like Michael Shermer, there seem to be a lot of women self-identifying as victims of sexual assault but no men. Given that rates of sexual assault on adult men are reported at 10% of women's rate, and that male children are at least as vulnerable as female children (as the data here suggest) it is more than a little odd that no man seems willing to self-identify as a survivor.

      At the very least this speaks to the way in which we silence men's voices in these debates, which in my view should be understood not in terms of women vs men but citizens vs predators (most predators are men, but most men are not predators.)

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    14. Re:Reporting bias? by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      The questionnaire is linked and fairly boring. In fact, it spends questions 1-31 asking pretty benign stuff, then has a quick one-page two-question "have you been harassed" block, with some follow-up questions like "If yes to #31, was the offender your superior, peer or subordinate."

      There's no asking if you have both male and female subordinates, or if management is primarily male, or if you only have female peers; so there's no way to tell if male peers are more of less "dangerous" than female subordinates or any other combination you might want to figure out.

    15. Re:Reporting bias? by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      And whether that man thinks being persistent will win her over eventually.

    16. Re:Reporting bias? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Yes, you're right, I read it incorrectly.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    17. Re:Reporting bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...clearly some people don't get the fact that "no" doesn't mean "try again later".

      Popular culture certainly doesn't help this. I'm willing to bet that if you look at the rom-coms that came out in the last few years, you'd see at least half of them have a suitor continue even after the love interest has said or expressed what effectively means "no."

      Question: in how many of those rom-coms is the suitor a superior at the workplace? One would think that may change how the person receiving the unwanted attention perceived the situation. Also, pla made this comment:

      Personally, I consider this issue more complex than "just don't do it" (which will no doubt enrage the SJWs, but, fuck 'em)...

      While it may be more complex than "just don't do it", I believe that the point is that there seem to be quite a few neckbeards who are getting bent out of shape that anything they do or say could be interpreted in a suggestive manner which could get them in trouble. If these guys are so afraid of this then, what is so godawful wrong with remaining strictly business at work and leaving your social life outside the office? You do realize that you are being paid to work and not to socialize, right?

    18. Re:Reporting bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, whether a woman finds an advance to be "harassment" or not depends on whether or not she's interested in the man.

      Life isn't fair. Deal with it.

    19. Re:Reporting bias? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The workplace is the important factor here. The reason that companies and professions have rules against harassment is to avoid the workplace problems that occur. When soemone gets repeatedly hit on at work is cause the worker to want to stay home, avoid the coworker, or just quit the job and go elsewhere. Bad for morale and the bottom line. Yes it's difficult to completely eliminate this in society as a whole, there will always be the catcalls and wolf whistles while walking down the street, but there's no reason to tolerate it in a workplace where everyone is supposed to be acting professionally.

      Basically the workplace is not supposed to be a dating pool. Sure it may happen, but it's not the purpose of the job and most the vast majority of employees they did not join the company in an attempt to find a partner.

    20. Re:Reporting bias? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      But the attractive guys who continue to hit on someone even after being told no do get reported. Stop blaming the women here.

    21. Re:Reporting bias? by MatthiasF · · Score: 1

      Um, 30% and 20% means Women are 50% more likely.

      That is pretty drastic.

      The article mentions "71% of women and 41% of men respondents", which is a 75% difference.

      If your study was indeed accurate and the numbers from this article plays out too, than academic environments have a significant issue with sexual harassment. Either it literally is an issue, or the young men and women in academia are poorly educated on what is sexual harassment (and are over reporting it).

    22. Re:Reporting bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was accused of harassing a female because my deodorant was too strong (Axe, Dark Temptation flavor). It isn't ignorance, it's using a weapon.

    23. Re:Reporting bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the vast majority of employees they did not join the company in an attempt to find a partner.

      They always say you find love when you least expect it. And maybe YOU didn't go to work to get some 'tang but I sure as fuck did! "No" means whatever the hell the judge says it means ;)

    24. Re:Reporting bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, whether a woman finds an advance to be "harassment" or not depends on whether or not she's interested in the man.

      To be fair, I expect that whether a man finds an advance to be "harassment" or not would also depend on whether or not he's interested in the woman. I know that I could certainly feel harassed by advances from women in whom I wasn't interested, when I'd feel more positive about advances from women in whom I was interested. But I wouldn't agree with any sort of official sanctions against them for hitting on me, unless they continued after I'd explicitly asked them to stop.

  9. Title != TFS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Science" vs. "fieldwork". Given that the latter involves travel away from familiar environments, I can see how would-be predators are emboldened.

    This doesn't make it right, of course, but I'm not sure how to deal with it. Maybe team-building isolation exercises conducted in controlled environments during the application process? See who doesn't play well with the rest and junk them. It seems to work for NASA, who I would imagine are the experts in "[working] within unfamiliar and unpredictable conditions".

  10. Then it happens less in science than in general by Lucas123 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The study the level of sexual assault of trainees in academic fieldwork environments... was 26% of women and 6% of men reported experiencing sexual assault. According to a study by the CDC, 51.9 percent of surveyed women and 66.4 percent of surveyed men said they were physically assaulted as a child by an adult caretaker and/or as an adult by any type of attacker. More than half (54 percent) of the female rape victims identified by the survey were younger than age 18 when they experienced their first attempted or completed rape. Violence against women is primarily intimate partner violence: 64.0 percent of the women who reported being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked since age 18 were victimized by a current or former husband, cohabiting partner, boyfriend, or date. In comparison, only 16.2 percent of the men who reported being raped and/or physically assaulted since age 18 were victimized by such a perpetrator. Study: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles...

    1. Re:Then it happens less in science than in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're not comparing like against like. This study only looks at sexual assault in one particular environment (which, obviously, is part of someone's lifetime). The NIJ report looks at both physical and sexual assault, over an entire lifetime.

      So that comparison does nothing to show whether sexual assault happens more or less often "in science" than "in general" or compared to any other workplace environment.

    2. Re:Then it happens less in science than in general by rmstar · · Score: 1

      According to a study by the CDC, 51.9 percent of surveyed women and 66.4 percent of surveyed men said they were physically assaulted as a child by an adult caretaker and/or as an adult by any type of attacker.

      I suppose that these figures make sense - but only after you include almost any inuendo as an assault.

      Basically, I call bullshit. These numbers are way to high. I suspect they equate large swaths of inocuous stuff with real rape in order to furhter an agenda.

    3. Re:Then it happens less in science than in general by HiThere · · Score: 1

      IIUC, this is not a survey of the *level* of sexual assault, but of the rate. And if the sample questions quoted above are typical, then I'm surprised that it isn't higher.

      OTOH, the questions that were listed above (in the discussion about poorly worded questions) don't distinguish between a bit of uncomfortable humor and forcible rape. One presumes that actual criminal activity is rare, but this isn't evidence of that.

      That said, in groups that are predominantly male and relatively isolated from external contact, one might expect that undesireably agressive sexual behavior would be relatively common. The real question to me is how moderate is the degree of undesireably agressive sexual behavior. (The rate would be interested *IF* coupled with the degree.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  11. DUPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Duplicate

    1. Re:DUPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [citation needed]

  12. It's all about perception.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have had a coworker years ago said she was offended because men pay attention to the pretty office admin instead of her. So she got upset and tried to claim sexual harassment in the office. Though no one would ever do anything since the office admin was the owners daughter.

    1. Re:It's all about perception.. by mark-t · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty darn sure that paying attention to somebody else on the allegation that they are better looking than you does not actually qualify as sexual harassment.

    2. Re:It's all about perception.. by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      In science, we call that a biological need to reproduce with the fittest specimens available.

  13. Prey by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1, Informative

    The weak prey on the weakest.

    --
    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    1. Re:Prey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But what about those of us who like a little sexual harassment? :D

    2. Re:Prey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The weak prey on the weakest.

      so do the strong.

    3. Re:Prey by PPH · · Score: 1

      The weak prey on the weakest.

      so do the strong.

      Not so much in the dating/reproductive game. This isn't like a lion looking for an easy meal. The strongest males seek the best females. It's an optimal reproductive strategy for producing the fittest offspring. And society has encoded it in its social structure. Be seen dating a lower ranked woman by the alpha females and you get points taken off your rank.

      And then there's the whole etiquette thing: Proper social behaviour is learned, much like sports, if you practice correct technique, you improve your game. If you goof around, or play with low ranked players, your game will suck. Sure, you can get laid more frequently hanging around the strip club. But you'll have a hell of a time building long term relationships with quality women if you treat them like hookers out of habit.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Prey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But what about those of us who like a little sexual harassment? :D

      Post your real name, address, and phone number and I'm sure someone will be along shortly to solve that problem for you.

  14. Reporting bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've got to think that women are more likely to actually report sexual harassment than men are. Probably wouldn't make up the entire difference, but would still be something to think about.

    Yes cause 'till we reach 50% in sexual harassment reports and in every other thing of life we are not happy.

    Cause there surely must be discrimination and discrimination is bad, a fascist state that has laws to control every aspect of life is good and solves the discrimination problem, that surely exist, or else women would be have a penis and be men.

  15. Science also has a random hook-up problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Consider the people who attend research conferences in the greatest numbers (grad students). They tend to be
    • Median age mid-20s
    • Single
    • Overworked
    • Underpaid

    They are also being entertained at conferences by a lot of vendors with fat wallets. To say beer flows like water at some of these events is an understatement to say the least. It isn't hard to see how this can lead to sexual assault as well. It of course in no way justifies it, but the culture doesn't impede it very well, either.

    1. Re:Science also has a random hook-up problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This was more or less speaking about field researchers. I myself was a field researcher in my mid-20s with other 20 somethings. We were all underpaid and overworked, same as our laboratory counterparts, but with a twist. Field researchers work in remote locations. There were even very intimate settings, such as the time I and my opposite gender colleague shared a single tent over the course of 3 days on a deserted island hundreds of miles from another human being. Nothing happened, but the opportunity routinely presents itself in this line of work for the a-holes who would exploit it.

    2. Re:Science also has a random hook-up problem by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Never saw a lot of vendors, given that no one at the conferences had money to spend...

    3. Re:Science also has a random hook-up problem by strikethree · · Score: 1, Insightful

      To say beer flows like water at some of these events is an understatement to say the least. It isn't hard to see how this can lead to sexual assault as well.

      Fuck off. Alcohol is no excuse. You either respect people or you do not. Alcohol is not an excuse.

      I am unsure why you are proposing the situation. If you would assault someone while you are drunk, you already have the will to assault someone regardless of being drunk or not. The most alcohol can do is loosen up your restrictions. Regardless, YOU are still CHOOSING to perform that action.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  16. No Shit Sherlock by pastafazou · · Score: 0

    who do you think invented date rape drugs?

    1. Re:No Shit Sherlock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sumerians? beer - wine

  17. If it smells like shit.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its probably shit.

    I wonder who profits off of this bullshit?

    1. Re:If it smells like shit.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your statement is predicated on the ASSumption that this smells like shit. [CITATION FUCKING NEEDED]

  18. HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by gurps_npc · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Step 1) Do the same query on men.

    2) If the men have a significant response rate, then just maybe that means the problem is YOUR QUESTION IS TOO VAGUE, rather than both genders experiencing sexual issues.

    The mere fact that this article claims that 40+% of men experience 'sexual harassment', proves that their definition of 'sexual harassment' is not reasonable - the kind of thing only a PC fool trying to prove a problem exists would use.

    Similarly, 6% of men experience sexual assault seems on the high side, though not as ridiculous as the 41% claiming harassment.

    The only thing going on here is idiots using bad definitions for their poll.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. Unless the study finds 0% harassment and 0% assault in males, it is flawed. This study was complete horse shit.

    2. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're emphatically saying that men don't get sexually harassed or assaulted as much as women, or really much at all?

      Question: what makes you say so?

    3. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by narcc · · Score: 1, Funny

      Similarly, 6% of men experience sexual assault seems on the high side

      Have you considered that you may just be unattractive?

    4. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      If the men have a significant response rate, then just maybe that means the problem is YOUR QUESTION IS TOO VAGUE, rather than both genders experiencing sexual issues.

      Wow, how unscientific can you get? You've decided on what you want the result to be and you're discarding data that doesn't fit.

      Sexual assault is really, really common. It's not just another word for rape, it covers any unwanted sexual touching. I had a woman I didn't know grope me as I was leaving a club last week. That's sexual assault. You may think that it's harmless - I wasn't particularly bothered by it - but regardless of severity, it's still sexual assault.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    5. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by gurps_npc · · Score: 1

      But but but she said the mole makes my bald head look GOOD! He he he

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    6. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
      It's not about me discarding data that doesn't fit, it's about usefulness.

      Look, lets say I have a test that determines who who should go to Harvard and who should go to community college. If the test says 41% of people should go to Harvard, that is useless.

      If 41% of people are experience activity X, than that means that X is NOT THAT BAD. Otherwise people would take steps to avoid that experience.

      Say we were were talking about people getting "Cragled" in Central Park. If 41% of people are getting "Cragled" in Central Park, than one of two possibilities:

      Either "Cragled" is a horrible thing, and the newspapers are going to immediately start reporting about it, while cops stake out Central Park, and everyone in the world refusing to go into Central Park. If that does not happen, than that means that "Cragled" is not such a bad thing.

      Most importantly, Sexual Assault suffers from psychological issues. The same activity could be called 'flirting" if both people like it, while it is Sexual Assault under other circumstances.

      If you are not bothered by the activity, then it is flirting. If you are bothered by it, it becomes sexual assualt.

      More importantly, ridiculously paranoid people do not have the right to stop those of us that like to flirt from flirting, simply because you can't tell the difference between flirting and sexual assault. If neither of me nor the girl I am flirting with at work are bothered by the behavior, then let us do it and stop trying to call us nasty names and kill our fun.

      Rape is RAPE, Consensual sex is CONSENSUAL SEX, and the same goes for Sexual Harassment and Flirting. The mere fact that you can't tell the difference does not mean the rest of us have to stop doing the things we like to do.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    7. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The mere fact that this article claims that 40+% of men experience 'sexual harassment', proves that their definition of 'sexual harassment' is not reasonable - the kind of thing only a PC fool trying to prove a problem exists would use.

      Similarly, 6% of men experience sexual assault seems on the high side, though not as ridiculous as the 41% claiming harassment. "

      It's not ridiculous at all, when you figure in that ~49% of men are too embarrassed to ever admit it.

      I agree that 'sexual harassment' has been expanded to the point where it's not all that useful a measure, but it's still real. It's defined as sexually related behaviour or comments that make you uncomfortable, which is a very low bar.

      Any attractive man that has worked in a mostly female field for a significant time experiences sexual harassmen on a regular basis, and  has already gotten so practiced at deflection it becomes nearly unconscious. I expect the same to be true for females in mostly male fields, it should be no surprise.

      Sexual assault is defined more tightly, and therefore a better measure. That's actually touching someone in a sexual area against their will. The resistance to reporting is even higher there. The 6% figure is ridiculously low, and clearly a result of under-reporting.

      Anyone who thinks females do not practice sexual harassment and sexual assault and so so regularly simply does not have sufficient experience with women to comment.

    8. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by skine · · Score: 1

      Why are you assuming that male sexual assault victims are rare? According to the CDC:

      19.3% of women and 1.7% of men have been raped during their lifetimes.
      1.6% of women and a negligible number of men had been raped in the 12 months preceding the survey.
      Note: Forced or otherwise coerced sex is not rape unless there is penetration of the vagina or anus, or penetration of the mouth by a sexual organ, as per the definition given by the US DOJ.

      43.9% of women and 23.4% of men have experienced other forms of sexual violence during their lifetime, including being made to penetrate, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and noncontact unwanted sexual experiences.
      5.5% of women and 5.1% of men had been victims of these other forms of sexual violence in the 12 months preceding the survey.

      That does bring up the question of why these other forms of sexual victimization are nearly identical in the short-term (93 men for every 100 women), but somewhat disparate in the long-term (53 men for every 100 women). Even if we assume that the groups of rape victims and victims of other forms of sexual violence are mutually exclusive, that's 72 men for every 100 women in the short-term and 40 men for every 100 women in the long-term.

      http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/previe...

    9. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once heard a young man in the 80s complain that an older, more experienced woman used science to first blind him and then take advantage of his weakened state. He said only that it involved chemicals.

    10. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      If you are engaging in sexual banter in the workplace and it is making even one of your colleagues uncomfortable you should stop.

    11. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      They used this definition: http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types...

    12. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a shitty way to deal with anything. There will always be one person in any office who will just want to fuck with you and be an asshole and caving in to them just makes them do it even more. But you keep running up that hill with your banner, warrior!

    13. Re:HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      You've decided on what you want the result to be and you're discarding data that doesn't fit.

      Just like Mary Koss and pretty much all feminist sexual assault statistics really.

  19. Yawners. DUPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Regurgitating news over the same study published in July.

    http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/07/16/2130242/sexual-harassment-is-common-in-scientific-fieldwork

    1. Re:Yawners. DUPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great catch! Now could you complain about the next story that tells us how great Assange and Snowden are?

    2. Re:Yawners. DUPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, if either one of those is a dupe.

      Meanwhile. #GAMERGATE!!!1! and not a dupe

      http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/17/Exposed-the-secret-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite
      http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/18/The-emails-that-prove-video-games-journalism-must-be-reformed

  20. Study Questions by Bob9113 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Phrasing of the questions in a survey is important to fully understanding the problem that is being examined. Here are the study questions. Two of the most relevant questions are these:

    32. Have you ever personally experienced inappropriate or sexual remarks, comments about physical beauty, cognitive sex differences, or other jokes, at an anthropological field site?

    39. Have you ever experienced physical sexual harassment, unwanted sexual contact, or sexual contact in which you could not or did not give consent or felt it would be unsafe to fight back or not give your consent at an anthropological field site?

    The PLOS ONE document itself is very thorough, and worth reading through to more fully understand the issue.

    1. Re:Study Questions by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      ...and both of those look like they need to be broken out into a number of distinct questions. Every comma and "or" muddles the resulting data.

      Although I've been part of the phone survey racket. So I know all about how these things can be distorted to suit the agenda of the company paying for the study.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:Study Questions by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

      comments about physical beauty

      So, "your hair looks nice" is sexual harassment?

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    3. Re:Study Questions by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      comments about cognitive sex differences.

      So everytime someone says something about women being superior or smarter I am being sexually harassed?

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    4. Re:Study Questions by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Have you ever personally experienced ... other jokes, at an anthropological field site?

      Umm. So did the studier notice that they ask the subjects if they have ever experienced jokes at an anthropological field site?

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    5. Re:Study Questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yep and inappropriate comments like "your are stupid" suddenly get mixed together with "sexual" because the question asks about "inappropriate or sexual" instead of "inappropriate sexual".

      But this is a minor problem. The bigger problem is their approach to sampling. They use voluntary online survey. These type of surveys tend to be answered by people with vested interest in the topic and ignored by people busy with other things. How do I know that their sample is no good? Here is a quote

      Hundreds of respondents, recruited online, answered our survey questions. A majority of the sample were women N = 516/666 (77.5%).

      So they have a miniscule sample, that is horribly biased towards one sex (for comparison see the gender and race distribution in academia here".

    6. Re:Study Questions by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    7. Re:Study Questions by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Informative

      Holy crap I didn't realize that. A self-selected online survey? And based at that absolutely meaningless metric, "science has a sexual assault problem?" Fuck that.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    8. Re:Study Questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Fuck that.

      Oops there we go again... Now Slashdot has a sexual assault problem.

    9. Re:Study Questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since at least 59% of men (and 29% of women) had to have answered no to this question, I think the sensationalist headline should be changed to "Majority of men have no sense of humor!"

    10. Re:Study Questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      comments about cognitive sex differences.

      So everytime someone says something about women being superior or smarter I am being sexually harassed?

      Not just sexually harassed, sexually assaulted. According to this 'study' anyway.

    11. Re:Study Questions by Livius · · Score: 1

      Said the wrong way and/or in the wrong context, yes.

    12. Re:Study Questions by s.petry · · Score: 1

      This is what people want you to believe, without a doubt. Whether or not that is truthful does not seem to matter very much. They can easily get away with manipulations using language like this.

      The survey used operationalized definitions of phenomena generally characterized as “harassment” by the United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commission [17], and “assault” by WomensLaw.org [20] without specifically using the terms “harassment” or “assault” to avoid making respondents name their experiences (see Materials S1 for the full survey).

      As with most fallacies, a glance this looks to be a good thing. Also, as with most fallacies, it generates a fabricated reality. As you point out, comments being automatically ranked as sexual harassment.

      Disclaimer: Real problems do exist, and my comments are not intended to diminish real problems.

      That out of the way, studies like this dilute real issues. The majority of the time a person hears "Your hair looks really nice." the comment is not a sexual comment but a friendly and sincere statement about someone's appearance. Nowhere does the comment indicate that the value of the recipient of the comment is only with their appearance. Nor does the statement indicate a lack of any other characteristics being human (I.E. knowledge, ethics, etc..). That Media keeps telling people that this is sexual harassment means that the gullible start to believe it, and even the not-so gullible think they can use proof of such comments as a method of advancement and/or retaliation.

      This has created a society that is very isolated and simply not friendly. It has created distrust of people, where no distrust should exist.

      It also means that every time a person has a real issue, their issue is not easily heard. It's hard to take the one case seriously when anyone observing evidence in numerous other cases can see that they are exaggerations to get ahead or get revenge.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    13. Re:Study Questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...cognitive sex differences...

      Like saying men are generally speaking a bit better at math, women at languages?

      The statement might not follow the dogma of the "PC movement". It may even be factually incorrect. It is, however, not a sexual assault.

    14. Re:Study Questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if stated by someone you're not attracted to.

    15. Re:Study Questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > They use voluntary online survey.

      This is important. This study is about as valid and useful as a magazine survey. Even before taking into account the vague. broad, poorly defined questions.

      In other words: This is a typical case of feminist advocacy "research". As in this case, it is usually not worthy of the term "research".

  21. Damn them labcoats! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can you blame them? Those Labcoats are soooooooo Sexy.

  22. Prof. John Nash (A beautiful mind). by MindPrison · · Score: 1

    Well, if they're like Mr. Nash in the movie A beautiful mind - then I can sort of see this as a problem.

    He basically asks the girl to simply skip the pleasant introduction, courting etc. and just go for the sex.

    --
    What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
    1. Re:Prof. John Nash (A beautiful mind). by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if they're like Mr. Nash in the movie A beautiful mind - then I can sort of see this as a problem.

      He basically asks the girl to simply skip the pleasant introduction, courting etc. and just go for the sex.

      All the issues of modern society can be traced to doing away with that simple courting ritual.

  23. Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there more sexual assaults in the sciences or in football? Where should code Pink be focusing?

    I'm to lazy to look up all the numbers.

  24. IT'S A DUPE! by denzacar · · Score: 1

    Hey Soulskill! Having issues with memory or is it something related to sex in general?

    Same study, same slashdot editor, 2 months ago...
    http://science.slashdot.org/st...

    So, why not just go over there and read the +4 and +5 comments for the last time?
    http://science.slashdot.org/co...

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  25. object to the title by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    I rather object to the title, Science doesn't have a problem with anything.....science is a tool. Some scientists, on the other had, very much seem to have a problem.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:object to the title by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I'm sick of getting lumped into a "victimizer group" constantly. There are assholes who harass and assault women and should be dealt with. But it's got nothing to do with me.

      Sexism absolutely exists. There are those who, upon learning Steve is bad at math will say, "Wow Steve, you suck at math." But upon learning that Amy is bad at math will say "Girls suck at math."

      But without irony, men in different groups are lumped together because of the actions of some assholes.

      Some women are harassed in field research and therefore "science has a sexual assault problem?" No, the assholes who harassed the women have a problem.

      Last month we had the "gamergate" blow-up where some troll on the internet threated a woman who was involved with video games. Thereafter we had to hear that "gamers have a sexism problem." No we don't. That deranged asshole has a problem. Not "gamers."

      I play games. I'm not a sexist. I...work in engineering but have conducted scientific research at a university and have published papers. So, I'm tangentially a scientist. And I'm not a sexist. The media people who write these stories need to stop the sweeping generalizations and quit lumping me and people like me in with a few assholes who happen to have the same interests I do.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    2. Re:object to the title by sugar+and+acid · · Score: 1

      The point is, this issue is statistically obvious and the guys that do this stuff are endemic and everywhere. The point is not to blame every man, but to squeeze those wankers out. And that should be a good thing! Just get with the idea, when this crap happens back the woman and not the man.

    3. Re:object to the title by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      I back the women. Absolutely. Would be nice, though, if the women wouldn't lump me in with the abusers by claiming that my entire field/group/hobby/gender/whatever has a problem.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    4. Re:object to the title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Squeezing the ol wanker out is the problem isn't it? I couldn't agree more though, it is indeed a good thing! I try to squeeze my wanker at least twice a day.

  26. nonsense by silfen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article looks at field work, not science as a whole. The results are self-reported, not verified or verifiable. And "harassment" and "assault" are defined so broadly that many normal day-to-day interactions can fall under them. In short, there is no evidence that "science has a sexual assault problem" in any standard meaning of those words.

    Much as feminists and other progressives like to establish such a principle, in reality, just because you feel uncomfortable or believe that something was inappropriate doesn't mean anybody has actually done anything wrong.

    1. Re:nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And "harassment" and "assault" are defined so broadly that many normal day-to-day interactions can fall under them.

      If people are defining this actions as harassment and assault, maybe we shouldn't have these be normal day-to-day interactions?

    2. Re:nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Women are superior, if they say it's wrong, it is. Are men able to speak without a woman's permission at your workplace? Do men hold any decision-making authority? Are women's salaries less than double those of male employees? Do women make up less than 99.99% of hires? Are women required to work more than 1 hour per day (including 30 min break)? If the answer to any of these questions is "no" you have a sexist workplace hostile to women.

    3. Re: nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we shouldn't. You do not have a right not to be offended, and you do not have a right to feel comfortable in every situation.

    4. Re:nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Much as feminists and other progressives like to establish such a principle, in reality, just because you feel uncomfortable or believe that something was inappropriate doesn't mean anybody has actually done anything wrong.

      You forget to finish that with "now bend over."

      Okay seriously - what exactly are the circumstances in which it is *supposed* to be okay for me to touch or approach you sexually in a way that you don't like in a professional setting?

      There's a woman at my work who doesn't really like handshakes. I like shaking hands. Handshakes are perfectly normal. Do you really believe that I should just impose them on her?

      I'm not making that up, and it's not even sexual.

      My honest reaction is that she shouldn't have to put up with people touching her hands if that's not something she likes. Start moving past handshakes into private parts and harassing people and I don't see how you can justify crossing someone's boundaries in a way that doesn't also give them the right to kick your teeth in and call it self-defense, assuming they have the power and desire to pull it off. (I don't, btw, but the image expresses my perspective.) Seems to me that the biggest problem academic feminists have is that they keep trying to talk about their feelings in situations where the average guy would have hit, stabbed, or shot the sonafabitch already.

    5. Re:nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My honest reaction is that she shouldn't have to put up with people touching her hands if that's not something she likes.

      You're free to respect her wishes. Your business may make that mandatory for employees and fire people who don't comply. But attempting to shake her hand does not constitute sexual assault, and it's not the job of government to cater to her idiosyncracy and throw people in jail who don't respect it.

      And this illustrates the problem with the study: it labels things "sexual assault" that really are just idiosyncracies of weird people.

      in situations where the average guy would have hit, stabbed, or shot the sonafabitch already.

      If you get violent towards someone who attempts to shake your hand, you belong in jail.

    6. Re:nonsense by prgrmr · · Score: 1

      How is field work not science? How is field work appreciably different from office/lab work or academia that it warrants your implied "one of these things is not like the other, one of these things doesn't belong"? And why is self-reported not verifiable? How is "self-reported" different from survey results? The logical fallacies you invoke are more than sufficient to invalidate your ridiculous conclusion that science doesn't have a sexual assault problem--particularly given that the only acceptable number of men raping any number of women over any given measured span of time is zero. And as things currently stand, that number is well above zero.

      Science, as a profession and as a culture, has a problem. And scientists everywhere ought to be embarrassed by that.

    7. Re:nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The logical fallacies you invoke

      Are you kidding me? Your post is a string of logical fallacies.

      Science, as a profession and as a culture, has a problem. And scientists everywhere ought to be embarrassed by that.

      The result of this FUD will simply be a further segregation and marginalization of women in science, as men simply don't want to have to deal with this b.s.

  27. Nobody Tell Anita by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody tell Anita Sarkeesian, the future of the patriarchy is at risk!

    (As a comical side-note, the CAPTCHA for the post was "domineer" I shit you not... http://s24.postimg.org/qhuydgr5h/Capture.png)

  28. Is there a single field that doesn't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since sexual harrassment has been extended to "disagreeing" or providing factual counterpoints to an argument....

  29. Problem with survey structure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Looking at questions 32-35 in the online survey, question 32 suggests a variety of encounters one of which is referred to as harassment, then retroactively describes them all as harrassment in question 35. It is entirely possible respondents interpreted this series of questions differently than the survey creators. The criterion for harassment is the EEOC guide http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm, but respondents were not informed of that either. Whether or not respondents felt harassed is not explicit in these questions, but part of a criteria the respondents would not necessarily be aware of.

  30. Dialogue v. Trolling by Etherwalk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well yes, you are, guilty of deflecting criticism by claiming the definitions are too broad.

    That's a common defensive reaction.

    Problems should be well-defined. Someone can take that position whether they're doing it defensively or not and still be making a legitimate point. Calling it defensive, notably on a topic where there is moral stigma associated with being defensive about it, is just an ad hominem attack.

    There are plenty of legitimate critiques of Parent's message--he appears to be dismissing out-of-hand an issue that affects hundreds of millions of people a year. He also failed to state what definitions he thinks are too broad to be useful. Responding with a question about one or more of those that might make people think about the issue is the difference between trolling and dialogue.

    1. Re:Dialogue v. Trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problems should be well-defined. Someone can take that position whether they're doing it defensively or not and still be making a legitimate point.

      Or they can take that position, because it is purportedly a legitimate one, and can thus have some apparent value to it. Even if their actual intent is anything but legitimate.

      Really, very few people are stupid enough to go all-cackling "I'm going to be evil" about whatever they want to go on about. They know to couch their objections in terms that can appear valid.

      Doesn't matter what the subject is, environmental, employment, religious, racial, or whatever, they do find ways to make their position seem better.

      Calling it defensive, notably on a topic where there is moral stigma associated with being defensive about it, is just an ad hominem attack.

      Ad hominem? So what about complaining about the definitions being too broad, then following it with a flippant remark about "Oh no, I said broad" in a descriptive representation of the purported nature of the attacks that said person wished to represent were the substance of complaints about sexual harassment.

      You did see, that, didn't you? Is that not ad hominem? Besides, is ad hominem necessarily wrong? Or is it actually important to understand the motivations and considerations of another?

      There are plenty of legitimate critiques of Parent's message--he appears to be dismissing out-of-hand an issue that affects hundreds of millions of people a year. He also failed to state what definitions he thinks are too broad to be useful. Responding with a question about one or more of those that might make people think about the issue is the difference between trolling and dialogue.

      Or you can think about the motivations of the above poster, and consider whether they're actually producing a legitimate concern, or just blowing steam.

      It's not too hard to do. And since you're interested in doing that yourself, I suggest you stop the remarks about an ad hominem attack. It's just making you look like a hypocrite.

    2. Re:Dialogue v. Trolling by Skarjak · · Score: 1

      The greatest crime of a lot of these extreme left ideologies, as far as I'm concerned, is to wish to make everything subjective. Who someone is is 100% irrelevant to their argument. The possible intentions they might have are also 100% irrelevant. Is the argument right or wrong? Would the argument be any better if it came out of someone else's mouth? This is nonsense. A logical argument exists independantly of the person who stated it. The habit that a lot of these people have of attacking people reather than arguments is a seriously anti-intellectual one, and you're not helping right now.

  31. Given the relative percentages... by tlambert · · Score: 1

    Given the relative percentages... it's likely that the "harassment escalating to assault" numbers for the men is underreported by a factor of 2.5, which would be about on a par with the underreporting of men being raped in the general population. There's a real cultural stigma to reporting by men, who are, by stereotype and therefore societal norms, "supposed to be" on the other end of the power equation.

  32. Women need to get overthemself by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 0

    Now before I get marked as a troll let me say I am not suggesting that all complaints of harrassment or assault are ficticious or embelishements. But lets be honest here - a guy looking at a woman in the office is viewed by women a lot differently than when one of their female coworkers checks out a male worker. And then there is the flipside - the woman who holds a grudge seemingly against all males because she is not pretty and does not get that kind of attention - regardless of whether she advances in her career or not. Men are damned if they do and damned if they don't while women get the free pass.

    So I guess I come at this from the "fat? no of course that dress doesn't make you look fat because you aren't!" school of things because we all know what happens if you don't answer precisely that way. Isn't it time that women (as a group) just get over it?

    1. Re:Women need to get overthemself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a woman file a complaint with HR which went in my file. She was hitting on me and would break her computer to get me over to fix it; then she would actually lay on her desk next to me talking while I fixed her computer. I was not friendly after she did this twice and so I was written up. Then the rumors spread about me being gay which got me crap from the older conservatives. I'm not gay but I now know what that feels like (well ten years ago what it was like.) It's not like the woman was ugly, some might of liked her but I didn't like her personality so it didn't matter what she looked like, she had an ugly soul.

  33. Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course this happened. Smart people are sex magnets.

  34. A Submission by cold fjord?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fucking hell. A conservative anti-science fascist tool submitting a story on science and women...

    1. Re:A Submission by cold fjord?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SWJ who forgot to switch persona before submitting?

    2. Re:A Submission by cold fjord?! by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Do you think there is a possibility you have a few things wrong?

      If not, perhaps you should brace yourself.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  35. supervisors tend to be male by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is some selection bias inherent in this. Supervisors are more likely to be male (another persistent problem in many fiels), so therefore, any instance of supervisor/subordinate interaction, of any kind, is more likely to be male>female rather than female>male

    1. Re:supervisors tend to be male by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Dont' forget supervisory harassment combinations of male->male and female->female, those also occur.

  36. No it's not harassment, but it counted as it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem isn't so much with question 32, which looks to elicit what could be loosely described as "sexist or inappropriate remarks" (which "that's such a female way to approach the problem" would be an example of.. not rising to sexual assault, but certainly sexist).

    The real issue is whether the response rate to that question gets reported as "TBD % of women reported receiving inappropriate or sexual remarks" (without the qualifiers)

  37. Re: Then it happens less in science than in genera by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Personally, I blame it on the existence of the 'mount' command.

  38. Look to your left and look to your right.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..odd are I will rape both of them or one of them and yourself by the end of this semester.

  39. Really? by PPH · · Score: 1

    Poindexter is more likely going to get his ass kicked by Helga, the research assistant who can pick up a tyrannosaurus thighbone.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  40. NERDS! by jsepeta · · Score: 1

    Nerd: Look at the terrible NFL and how they treat women.
    Woman: ORLY?

    --
    Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    1. Re:NERDS! by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      What's especially entertaining are the twice daily reports of female schoolteachers raping boys.

  41. currently under treatment for nightmares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Usually involving 3 or more women forcing themselves on me.
    Against my will.
    why are you laughing? I am not going to tell the rest of my story if you refuse to be serious.
    did i mention I am PRO CHOICE ? Even a fetus should have the right to choose euthenasia.

  42. Dialogue v. Trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Calling it defensive, notably on a topic where there is moral stigma associated with being defensive about it, is just an ad hominem attack.

    Not sure about your perspective on the situation but I consider any woman whose had sexual relations prior to marriage to be damaged goods in the sense she is not a virgin. Is that the moral stimga you've attached to this discussion?

    If a woman says 'no', cease and desist immediately. Walk away if you feel unable to control yourself. If she subsequently plays all "let's get it on, I was joking when I said no", run away after explaining to her that she is sending mixed messages which is unacceptable. You don't want a sexual assault charge do you?

  43. science has no problem by YoungManKlaus · · Score: 1

    because science is a concept.

    the people conducting what they call science are the problem.

  44. Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unless you can separate out the responders who were too drunk to give consent during sexual contact (but otherwise didn't object to the encounter) from the responders who were raped or date raped or unknowingly drugged.

    From the PLOS ONE site:
    "A majority of survey respondents reported that they had directly observed or been told about the occurrence of other field site researchers and/or colleagues making inappropriate or sexual remarks at their most recent or most notable field site"

    The 'or been told' means they are getting the equivalent of a message passed during the telephone message.

  45. The outcome is that there is probably a problem. by EnempE · · Score: 1

    Have a look at the original article the authors even note the major problems of this study. The sample (Only 666 respondents) is not representative. The subject matter is more likely to be responded to by those with strong negative views. The link was referred, making it a snow ball sample, those who know others with strong view are likely to pass it to those people. The group was uncharacteristically composed of women They assumed a different email name signifies a different person. The researchers pointed this out along with the face that there is not way of singling out any group as being worse than any other group. This in combination with the differing understandings of the questions. That said however, there are issues here. It is important to highlight the different understanding and norms between genders and age groups that can cause problems as well as bring attention to the options open to victims to seek help and remedy issues. Note that the survey found that none of the men knew what to do if they felt they had been sexually harassed.

  46. Lies and Politics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please don't fall for the political manipulation. Women are just as capable of being fully as reprehensible as men. The only problem that I see, is our failure within the technological community to acknowledge that fact.

  47. Get to know the REAL 'BarbaraHudson'... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of the 1st times "Barb" libeled me stating "APK is a know-nothing that's never worked in the industry" -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... in 1 of her numerous sockpuppet fake accounts kept active @ the same time here she uses to upmod herself & downmod opponents she can't get the better of (everyone's onto your games, freak).

    Funny part is I've DONE FAR BETTER than ole' "cyclops Frank N. Furter" ever has shown in that exchange too http://slashdot.org/comments.p... , lol!

    ---

    Later, he/she kept a journal on me & libeled me even more but worse -> http://slashdot.org/journal/25...

    (Typical b.s. to *try* to 'put down' computer "geeks/nerds" saying "I live in a basement with my mommy" etc. when *ANYTHING BUT THAT* is true, considering I am a taxpaying homeowner!).

    ---

    * From the dates you can SEE she's kept this up unceasingly since early to mid 2010 no less, & that's only scratching the surface (there's far more).

    (Even TELLING OTHERS TO HARASS ME BY ANONYMOUS COWARD POSTS, calling me a "pedo" -> http://news.slashdot.org/comme... )

    He/She left in May 2012 after being exposed for ALL OF THAT, but came back with this NEW account of hers, & what started up again (I did *NOT* bother "shim" even once before that)?

    You guessed it (more harassment) -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...

    Where I challenged her for her usual CRAP she always runs from (to validly disprove my points on hosts, which she clearly, cannot):

    "I tore apart your stupid hosts file crapola." - by BarbaraHudson (3785311) on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @10:46AM (#47703255) Homepage

    Oh, really?

    Then why'd you run from disproving my points on them giving users added speed, security, reliability & more here too then -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...

    APK

    P.S.=> Barb/Tom (whatever, with multiple sockpuppets too http://slashdot.org/~BarbaraHu... = http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson... + http://slashdot.org/~Barbara%2... ) you've destroyed yourself yet again...

    ...apk

  48. Witch Hunts by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    A few years ago we had a nasty witch hunt for supposed child molesters. Then we went through a sexual assault panic. Now we seem to be getting really crazy in regard to sexual assaults in the work place. The catch is that sexual assaults or insults can be claimed out of whole cloth. Think about two or three people working covertly who sign up for work at a company as if they never knew each other. All of a sudden a false accusation is made and the other two workers back up the lies told by the supposed victim. You know the business can be sued for lots of money. Just how can a target defend against such tactics? Imagine an employee claiming that he saw a grab and fondle incident while the woman tried to break free. Then another employee claiming that she saw the supposed victim fighting off the same executive. The problem is that false accusations are all too common. Remember the Duke sports team that was hammered and scarred forever by a crack addict with false accusations? Or how about the McMartin Day Care incident where people were ruined for life where no violations ever took place. And even the famous George Zimmerman case is important as it proves corruption in the system and an unjust system on top of that. Mr. Zimmerman met every inch of Florida law. The police refused to make an arrest as there was zero evidence of wrong doing. The prosecutor refused to take Mr. Zimmerman to trial as there was no violation of law. Yet the notoriously corrupt Governor Rick Scott ordered a special prosecutor and state police to arrest Mr. Zimmerman and take him to trial. A sane jury found him not guilty. Yet he has been bankrupted and lives in fear and is probably a bit crazy now due to the persecution he has suffered. Keep in mind that simply clenching a fist and stepping forward is enough to justify being gunned down under Florida law. There are areas that the police and courts need to avoid as proof and truth will usually not be found. Now we are told that if a female is the type that says oh no, oh no, oh yes, oh yes during sex that somehow that makes a man a rapist. Obviously the entire situation must be considered and be provable before any arrest takes place.

    1. Re:Witch Hunts by Patent+Lover · · Score: 1

      Um, fuck George Zimmerman. The self appointed non-cop.

  49. Seems the other way around... by kinohead · · Score: 1

    Sexual Assault has a science problem...

    --
    "Moogs! Would YOU buy that for a quarter?" CMK
  50. Anecdote from Graduate School by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My girlfriend had the audacity to be the only woman graduate student in a science research group. Her reward was nearly constant verbal sexual abuse. Her colleagues would joke about masturbating in the office and splattering their semen on her computer keyboard. The harassers were Americans born in the 1980s from upper-middle class backgrounds.

  51. The numbers make sense by Gliscameria · · Score: 1

    Isn't the other statistic that 1 in 5 women in the US have been sexually assaulted? So, that's a 20% baseline. I imagine somewhat of an increase in sexual assault if you're working in a field that is predominantly the opposite sex. Plus I'm sure there are some other modifiers for the field that you simply aren't going to be able to change, like the types of people that get into those fields - I don't mean peverts, but maybe higher ambition or drive can contribute to crossing the line between flirtation and a meeting with HR. ---It could also be that educated and motivated females are less tolerant of assault and more likely to report it.--- Or maybe science makes nerds horny (half joking).

    --
    X
  52. Cultural acceptance by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 1

    I've read an article about the same sort of problem but then about ISIS/IS mass raping women and little boys in their war and the lack of public outrage about that. It seems that rape is a culturally accepted practice in the USA. Given the fact of unsolved and unreported rapes withing USA borders and their military, it's hard to find proof that rape *isn't" accepted, even if it's technically a crime.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
    1. Re:Cultural acceptance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rape is not culturally accepted in the USA: it's a political expedience.

  53. This has been discussed before ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... I am pretty sure here on /.; science doesn't have a "sexual assault" problem; Humans have a sexual assault problem; it's called "Psychopaths".

  54. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  55. noticing a pattern yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its almost like it's totally independent of each witch hunted organization and activity.

  56. Oh the irony of it all ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Just since yesterday afternoon, apk (the HOSTS file troll) has posted 100 responses to posts I've made. The ones in this thread were among the tamest ...

    "you transsexual weirdo"
    "I did *NOT* bother "shim"

    The others included references and links to a pic from Rocky Horror Picture Show, saying that I was nuts for "cutting off my balls", "He/She", Frank. N. Furter, "you are mentally unhinged by taking estrogen to attempt to upset your body's natural order of things, which yes, includes your mind taking a huge hit. You have mentally unbalanced yourself more than doing something quite insane in a sex change to yourself also."

    And a lot more. And this goes on every day ...

    Sexual harassment in a thread about sexual harassment? This all started because someone asked "What is APK" and I told them.

    Now, back on topic, the headline is mislabeled (so what else is new). It says "Science has a sexual assault problem," whereas the actual survey talks about sexual harassment. And a lot of posters seem to have failed to make the distinction.

    One (not exhaustive) definition of sexual harassment I would use is words or acts containing references to sex or sexual identity that either make me uncomfortable, or, or, in APK's case, were intended to make me uncomfortable but failed. Sexual assault, on the other hand, is when I'm lying on a hospital gurney in emergency with paper towels stuffed between my legs to stop the bleeding after being attacked. And for the doubters that sexual assault is under-reported, I didn't report that incident - the doctors did. I couldn't tell them. I just wanted the whole world to leave me suffer alone in peace.

    Sexual harassment is not a case of "I'll know it when I see it", because too many of the harassers simply don't get it in the first place. Saying so doesn't make me a feminazi - there are plenty of men who do "get it". And there are other parts of the world where it's a heck of a lot worse, due to a culture that treats women as 3rd-class citizens.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:Oh the irony of it all ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course you aren't being a feminazi. You aren't actually female, ergo.......

    2. Re:Oh the irony of it all ... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      And for the non americans: what is APK?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    3. Re:Oh the irony of it all ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Alexander P. Kowolski, the HOSTS file troll. Just google "apk hosts file troll."

      One result, from the Debian mailing lists

      Sometimes referred to as the APK approach (a famous troll) who devoted his life to promoting the hosts file as a cure for everything - more than just a filter - it's a firewall - it's an antivirus - it stops spyware, fixes your car, and makes you look thin! Last I heard *his* hosts files were around the 12MB mark! Hosts files work fine I guess (they certainly keep you busy!) - though they lack the fine grain control (wildcards, selected fileextensions, regular expressions) of AdBlock Plus, protection against cross-site scripting, element hiding, the ability to block flash and java elements - and the reporting ability. And it's easy to write new extensions for it. You could probably import the basis of a host block list from an AdBlock subscription. NoScript combined with AdBlock (they're both in the repositories) allow you to remove the mouse-overs and the embedded (javascript written) ads as well. Host files will only remove some ads, and they can't do squat about floating divs or javascript document writes.

      His "solution" is absurd in an era when even cheap laptops have quad cores and oddles of ram to run whatever you want, including browser extensions. And yet, pointing out that he has one heck of a reputation as the "HOSTS file troll" or that his "solution" is so '90s gets the same response. With me, of course, he takes it to an entirely different (and lower) level. Kind of sad, really.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    4. Re:Oh the irony of it all ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Frank N. Furter lives http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net...

  57. Well it finally happened... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Feminism has started to ruin science...

    First they came for the internet trolls, but I didn't say anything because I wasn't an internet troll.
    Then they came for the gamers, but I didn't say anything because I wasn't a gamer.
    Then they came for the college students, but I didn't say anything because I wasn't a college student. ...
    Now they've come for the scientists, but no one is left to say anything...

  58. nitpick by mod+prime · · Score: 1

    It is perfectly logical to call a tomato a vegetable. Because it is a vegetable (culinarily speaking). It's also a fruit (botanically speaking).

  59. The numbers fit my preconceived assumptions... by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 1

    The methodology of this study is pretty shaky, so the numbers are worthless. The fact that they're what you'd expect them to be is meaningless. I'm not saying there's no harrassment issues in science or field work, or that your conjecture is necessarily wrong. I'm saying the selection bias of this survey makes it impossible to draw any conclusions from it.

    --
    Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
  60. Witness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have personally observed a friend abandon her more than half complete Physics PhD in Finland due to sexual harrassment and sexual assault. It was also much more interesting than the subsequent PhD she has pursued elsewhere.

  61. HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To be fair, I have actually gotten someone fired for sexual harassment as a man.

    For the record, the guy in question put his hands down my pants at work, so I believe it was justified in that particular case.

  62. I've noticed... by 7-Vodka · · Score: 1
    I've noticed that all these pointless professional victim-hood articles are being published by this soulskill idiot.

    Now I'm wondering why.

    --

    Liberty.

  63. Eye of the Beholder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How the survey questions are interpreted by the people answering them:

    32. Have you ever personally experienced sexual remarks, comments about physical beauty, cognitive sex differences, or other jokes, at an anthropological field site from a person to whom you were not attracted ?

    39. Have you ever experienced contact in which you could not or did not give consent or felt it would be unsafe to fight back or not give your consent at an anthropological field site from a person to whom you were not attracted ?

  64. percentages by l3v1 · · Score: 1

    "Most of these women encountered this abuse..."

    So, not to discriminate or anything, but what about those 6% men?

    Anyway, to the numbers, I'd only say that 26% (or even 6%) of 666 is staggering. The authors should have gone to great lengths to work with law enforcement provide a means to gather anonymized data in such a way that still could be used to discover the offenders. Otherwise I don't think this paper has any more value than some article in a tabloid.

    --
    I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
  65. Does adblock do these things? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That custom hosts files can?? Answer these 15 questions barbarahudson (YES or NO only):

    1.) Secure you vs. known malicious sites/servers
    2.) Secure you vs. downed DNS servers aiding reliability
    3.) Secure you vs. DNS redirect poisoned dns servers
    4.) Protect you vs. fastflux using botnet attacks and stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    5.) Protect you vs. dynamic dns using botnet attacks and stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    6.) Protect you vs. domain generation algorithm using botnet attacks and stop their communications back to their C&C servers
    7.) Speed you up for websurfing not only by adblocking but also hardcoding favorite sites
    8.) Get you past a dnsbl you may not agree with
    9.) Keep you off dns request logs
    10.) Do all of those things and block ads (better than adblock) more efficiently in cpu cycles and memory usage
    11.) Work on ANY webbound application (think stand-alone email programs, for example).
    12.) Give you direct, easily notepad/texteditor controlled data for all of the above
    13.) Block out trackers
    14.) Block spam mails sources
    15.) Block phishing mails sources

    "?"

    * Simple YES or NO answers will do for repliers to this - that's all.

    APK

    P.S.=> Of course, ANSWER ="NO" to each enumerated item above as far as "Almost ALL Ads Blocked" (crippled by default & 'souled-out' defeating it's very base purpose) is concerned -> http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/...

    So, *IF* you feel like doing things LESS efficiently as well -> https://blog.mozilla.org/nneth... ontop of doing less than hosts do (by far) with more complexity + from a slower mode of operations (usermode with more messagepassing overheads vs. hosts in kernelmode, also starting up w/ the IP stack itself, before REDUNDANT inefficient addons even BEGIN to operate, & as the 1st resolver queried by the OS as well)?

    That's illogical, but up to you - I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make them drink!

    ... apk

    1. Re:Does adblock do these things? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Anyone with brains can write a botnet that doesn't use dns. Sure, it will be taken down quicker, but there are ways around that as well. Sheesh, get over it, this is not 1985 any more.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  66. I told the truth (you're a tranny freak)... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're a transsexual weirdo. You're not a woman (fact) - That's not harassment - it's FACT (one you admit is true).

    APK

    P.S.=> Funny YOU talk about 'stalking' though - YOU stalk me by ac posts ADMITTEDLY & told others to join you in it (an organized conspiracy of stalking):

    FROM http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    "HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off)." - by tomhudson (43916) barbara.hudson@ ... a - h u dson.com on Saturday April 16, 2011 @01:38PM (#35841122) Journal

    and that's been going on since May 2010 (proof here in YOUR OWN WORDS) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme." - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09, 2010 @08:29PM (#32150544) Journal

    YOU also keep several sockpuppet accounts here that I KNOW OF http://slashdot.org/~BarbaraHu... = http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson... + http://slashdot.org/~Barbara%2... (AND, there's probably many more)... apk

    1. Re:I told the truth (you're a tranny freak)... apk by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      You're such a fool, apk. Stuck in the mid-90s technologically, the '70s socially ... transsexual women have the same status in law as genetic women. And in society? We're where gays and lesbians were a generation ago - uber-cool to have at least one as a friend. Jealous much?

      All I told people to do is what you've been doing to others for years. You can dish it out (sort of), but you can't take it, because you're a hypocrite, like most narcissists.

      As for the "sockpuppet account" charge, you know it's bogus. When I was outed on slashdot in '06, I took a second account that was more gender-appropriate. And no, you didn't "chase me away" in 2012 - my retinas deteriorated to the point where I couldn't use a computer (or read, or sometimes even see). Contrary to expectations, and thanks to a lot of hard work by several teams of specialists, I can see well enough to use a computer, read, do day-to-day tasks (just don't ask me to drive a car, tell the difference between colours, ask me if a picture is straight, or similar stuff). If I still had the old passwords, I would have gone back to using my old accounts.

      But keep on going through every post I make, and using proxies to post 100 times a day about how I'm such a weird freak. All you're doing is reinforcing your reputation as a social maladroit and a hater of people like me who put the "T" in LGBT.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  67. Those sockpuppet accounts you use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To minusmod opponents ran out of modpoints eh? Your crap posts get upmods from those too (sockpuppets modding yourself up also obviously). You're painfully obviously online trash "barb". Obviously you're also not a woman. You're a transgender which speaks worlds in and of itself as to your state of affairs mentally.

  68. Better than being Frank N. Furter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net... that runs from his questions on hosts vs adblock here http://slashdot.org/comments.p... sockpuppeting troll and technically challenged computer wannabe that you are barb.

  69. Barb, again: Where'd I actually say that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm confronting YOU directly on that note here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    FACT: I never said hosts "do everything under the sun" - only that they are an EXTREMELY EFFICIENT & VALUABLE + EFFECTIVE layer of defense which even Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET even agreed with me on a few days ago via email (would you like to see that too? Just ask & "ye shall receive").

    * SO - Why're you "running" from answering those questions of mine on hosts vs. adblock then, "Forrest"?

    (OR, should I say "Frank N. Furter" instead? LMAO!)

    APK

    P.S.-> Bottom-Line: You're FLAT-OUT RUNNING "Forrest" from those simple questions on "can adblock do all hosts can"(which is a HUGE "NO" in a 15:1 ratio) & as efficiently as hosts can as well (which it CAN'T by a HUMUNGOUS level of difference in terms of CPU, RAM, & other forms of I/O including messagepassing overheads AND layering in over already SLOWER usermode apps in browsers, slowing them more)... apk

  70. You stated it doesn't bother you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And it's not been a secret that I'm trans since I was outed back in 2006. Nothing to be ashamed of. by BarbaraHudson on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @10:49PM (#47933725) Attached to: Interviews: David Saltzberg Answers Your Questions About The Big Bang Theory

    Source http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    So what's your point then? You told everyone you are a transgender and it doesn't bother you. You however have been proven in your own words and methods to stalk apk anonymously http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

  71. Avoiding answering my questions? YOU FAIL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject-line: Why're you avoiding answering 15 simple questions http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    ?

    * We KNOW why - you opened your big mouth & it wrote checks your dull limited in computing skills brain can't cash... fact, which your evasions makes fact.

    APK

    P.S.=> Keep "Running, Forrest", lol... apk

  72. I don't use proxies & you're not a real woman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject-line above, it's facts. I didn't go thru all your posts. Only your upmodded to +5 ones you upmodded yourself, obviously via your sockpuppets!

    Just so everyone can see how you are stalking, libeling, & harassing me since 2010 (proofs of your words quoted doing so http://news.slashdot.org/comme... AND telling others to do so with you).

    Face facts:

    Everyone KNOWS you had multiple accounts here (& it *doesn't* take a brain to know you can & DID use those to upmod yourself, as well as downmod others who get the better of you - whom you stalk by ac posts as well).

    APK

    P.S.=> Barb, ever since I showed you are a FOOL stating lies on Windows AutoRun, you've been pursuing & stalking me ever since from 2010 onwards!

    Heck - I suspect you really NEVER EVEN LEFT /. but skulked around anonymously AND PROBABLY HAD THOSE SOCKPUPPET ACCOUNTS OF YOURS BANNED for your crap I think!

    (Funny how ever since that confrontation, the downmods on MY POSTS went up hugely since then - "gosh, I wonder why?" - NOT! See your sockpuppets usage methods + AC stalking me in YOUR WORDS QUOTED showing you not only doing so, but telling others to do so WITH you, freak) -

    LMAO - I must have *REALLY* busted your ego down then, as I am doing now on hosts vs. adblock here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... AND YOU ARE RUNNING "FORREST" since you can't prove me wrong, & YOU KNOW IT (everyone does, doesn't take a brain to see it, lol)

    ... apk

  73. Ok Barb: HOW am I "absurd"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hosts do more than adblock more efficiently by far proven from reputable sources in my challenge to you http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    ?

    * You're even RUNNING "Forrest" from answering those 15 simple questions too, for Pete's sake, lol...

    Yes, face facts: YOU? FAIL... badly!

    (As always vs. "yours truly", you dumbass multiple sockpuppet self upmodding/opponent downmodding + ac post stalking/harassing/libeling tranny weirdo!)

    APK

    P.S.=> No "barb": YOU'RE clearly the "ABSURD" (& clearly STUPID) one, telling others to do LESS, USING MORE - that is BAD ENGINEERING

    vs.

    Using hosts to do more than adblock EVER could with less moving parts complexity, more efficiently with less CPU, RAM, & messagepassing overheads with hosts also operating in kernelmode vs. usermode (more priority/higher speed) with hosts also being the 1st resolver queried BEFORE remote DNS does, stupid - you're a TOTAL imbecile, lol!

    ... apk

    1. Re:Ok Barb: HOW am I "absurd"? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      You seem to forget that I once worked for the Russians. They taught me a few things, I taught them a few things, fun times.

      It's entirely possible to create malware that doesn't use DNS, and it doesn't matter how many entries you put in your hosts file, you're screwed. We investigated this because we had to be ready if someone tried to do this to us, because they could have poisoned a LOT of computers that way. And, of course, because it's always handy to have something special in your bag of tricks :-)

      Like I said, it's absurd not to take advantage of the capabilities of modern hardware. Because if you don't some $BAD_PERSON out there will be quite happy to steal all those cpu cycles you "saved."

      Your "15 questions" are straw men that take away from the point that you're obsolete, and so is your hosts file "solution", which is why you have a long reputation of being the "hosts file troll".

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:Ok Barb: HOW am I "absurd"? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Well, since you FINALLY asked how you are absurd:

      1st definition of absurd from google: Ab-surd: (of a person or a person's behavior or actions) foolish; unreasonable.

      Going through every post I make in every thread, posting multiple responses (up to 100 posts a day) attacking me based on my gender (including in a thread about sexual harassment) - I think that most people would qualify your behaviour as both foolish and unreasonable.

      Getting all bent out of shape when someone exposes your bullying tactics and then tells other people how to do the same to you - both your original bullying and your response when you get it thrown right back at you are foolish, unreasonable, and just plain childish.

      Saying I'm stalking you when it's obvious you're the one doing the stalking - foolish, unreasonable, and more than a bit delusional. Oh, and your paranoia is showing.

      Thinking that attacking me because I'm transsexual is going to get you anywhere on a tech site, when tech attracts a higher-than-average number of people in the LGBT community, as well as sympathizers, is foolish. Continuing it day after day when it doesn't work is not just unreasonable, it's stupid and/or insane.

      Clinging to arguments for your HOSTS file that are completely orthogonal to today's reality, and that obviously the vast majority don't care about and don't need because they have found better ways to solve their own problems, is foolish on it's face and unreasonable to those looking on, who use their computers just fine without your "solution."

      Going on about how "taking estrogen is rotting your brain", that "you're crazy to have cut your balls off" (btw - I'm not a surgeon, and I don't pretend to be one on the innnertubes), when I'm following expert medical advice that has a proven track record of success, well, that's both foolish and ridiculous.

      The problem isn't your hosts file - it's your behaviour, which certainly is absurd, and probably disturbed as well.

      That leads to another question - why? What is it about me in particular that sets you off worse than anyone else? Is it me, or do you have a problem with women in general (I seem to recall some attacks you made on other women who have challenged you that would indicate that this may be the case)? Do you think that men are superior to women, and that anyone who willingly "trades in" to become a woman is stupid because you have a low opinion of women?

      And that, of course, brings us back on-topic - the "science has a sexual assault problem. You don't seem to be capable of the introspection necessary to realize how absurd your behaviour is. How many other women have you felt it's your right to attack, and still continue years later, about their sex, gender, or sexual identity, just because you disagreed with their opinion on a technical issue of absolutely no import to anyone but you?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    3. Re:Ok Barb: HOW am I "absurd"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Barb you're literally quoted stalking apk by ac posts telling others to join you in it http://slashdot.org/comments.p... so you're full of it and despite your other crap on hosts and adblock we also see you literally evading disproving apk's points on hosts too after you called him a know nothing who never worked in the industry when it's clear the reverse is probably true based on your poor results against apk's post here http://slashdot.org/comments.p... Go away you pot calling the kettle black nutcase. Small wonder your 2 sockpuppet accounts were banned.

  74. Dicks tangled up in a knot again by __aaluto8585 · · Score: 1

    If someone comes up to you and says that they are uncomfortable about something, do you say, 'but the statistics argue that i can be theoretically uncomfotable too'?, perhaps one could say 'I'm sorry to hear that, can we work on fixing that together'? People are pointing to a systemic challenge that they face in life that we can solve by just talking and establishing a communicated common ground and everybody goes up in arms and start yelling dumb neologisms like misandry without even engaging feminism in any sort of meaningful way apart from what has been reverberating Rush Limbaugh style from conservative networks onto the internet and echoing out back from tech circles. Whenever there is an article that might indicate a gendered wrongdoing, slashdot gets their dicks tangled up in a knot faster than a 'first poster' can post a 'first post' post. Rather than trying up to come up with reasons why this article that goes beyond your beliefs is wrong, why not see the problem as it clearly exists? Might make you discomfortable sure, but hell is less discomfortable than what women(as well as LGBT people) report as being in the workplace. Given that this exists within a matrushka doll of gendered power hierarchies where men are empowered (... > expectations > education > career steps > ...).. anyhow.. I am digressing here, just wanted to point out that this is not a problem of research methods or terminology but of being.

  75. BarbaraHudson = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!"... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject-line & face the music here scumbag-> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    * Where I am FINALLY "cornering you" after you erroneously & FALSELY stated I claimed a hosts file can "completely secure you vs. everything/anything & cure cancer" etc. - et al... & what are YOU doing in response?

    "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" evasions, nothing more, vs. answering 15 simple questions, adblock vs. hosts!

    (R O T F L M A O... no doubt about it!)

    APK

    P.S.=> LMAO @ "I worked with the Russians": That's supposed to "impress me"? So have I, TONS of times, as colleagues in the Fortune 100-500 & more!

    ( + there's LITTLE QUESTION I've done far more than YOU in computing http://slashdot.org/comments.p... that was actually cited so "barb" in my programming career which YOU CLAIMED I was a "know nothing that never worked in the industry" you bullshit blowhard swine (which I confronted you on before & YOU HAD SQUAT by verifiable comparison, bigmouth stalker/libeler/harasser/sockpuppeteer you are KNOWN & PROVEN TO BE in YOUR OWN WORDS quoted here you scumbag freak -> http://news.slashdot.org/comme... )... apk

  76. BarbaraHudson std. modus operandi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your post's minusmodded by barbhudson's sockpuppets. You're right as usual. She tries to vainly hide when she gets her tail handed to her with unjustifiable minusmods administered by her numerous sockpuppets and mods up her own crappy no substance posts with them as well obviously.

  77. barbhudson = pot calling a kettle black by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Proof right here of your std. modus operandi via sockpuppets & ac stalking posts http://slashdot.org/comments.p... which YOU even TOLD OTHERS TO JOIN YOU IN, scumbag.

    Above ALL else here however?

    I've totally vindicated myself & saved MY GOOD NAME vs. your outrageous libelous stalking bullshit - with YOU RUNNING AWAY from 15 simple questions on hosts vs. adblock you are evading like a SCARED RABBITT -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    Who's the "know nothing" here, Barb? YOU ARE, lol!

    By the SAME token via your evasions being unable to backup your b.s.? You've made ME look GOOD, & yourself like the online TRASH you clearly are.

    I haven't stalked you shithead - I was merely confronting you DIRECTLY as is my right to defend myself, AND WIN, destroying a scumbag online like you... and you have only DESTROYED YOURSELF, with your own words & actions, you freak.

    "Cry pity" all you LIKE asshole - you fail, no matter *WHAT* crap angle you try. Truth's like that, Try it sometime.

    APK

    P.S.=> You're trash, twisted (obviously since fact is fact you're a transsexual for Pete's sake) sicko trash, plain & simple proved in the link above in YOUR OWN WORDS quoted as PROOF THEREOF on how you have multiple sockpuppets online to upmod yourself + downmod opponents unjustifiably with AND stalking me by AC posts too!

    Lastly - YOU certainly CAN'T BACKUP YOUR B.S. vs. my points on hosts here ("run, forrest: run!!!") -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... despite libeling me saying "I live with my mommy" (I am a taxpaying homeowner) & that I am a "know nothing who never worked in the industry" which I proved TOTALLY WRONG with facts here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

  78. Learn to READ cyclops... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't confront you in "every post you make" liar: Only your bogusly sockpuppet modded up ones http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    Which is NOW, backfiring on you, isn't it? They're highly visible where I state facts, you quoted in fact, on JUST HOW YOU OPERATE ONLINE!

    So much for YOU using MULTIPLE SOCKPUPPETS to hide posts you failed BADLY in, & yes, ones you *obviously* used your multiple registered accounts to "upmod" your shit posts with as well!

    OR, are these *NOT* just 3 examples of your bogus shenanigans with multiple account use here on /.:

    http://slashdot.org/~BarbaraHu... = http://slashdot.org/~tomhudson... + http://slashdot.org/~Barbara%2...

    ?

    I am SURE you keep many more of those too... you are dishonest & dishonorable TRASH.

    APK

    P.S.=> Now, I've FINALLY 'cornered you' FAIRLY & you can't escape it, only evading it like the pisspot you are evidencing yourself to be, you fucking libelous stalking sockpuppeteering piece of shit, by evading answering 15 simple questions I put to you in COMPLETELY FAIR CHALLENGE TO YOU in this link (to watch you squirm like you've been doing - I love it: You only did it, to yourself) -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... - Keep "RUNNING", Forrest - we all can now see, plainly via your evasions, who the "know nothing is" you stooge (you)... apk

  79. Re:I don't use proxies & you're not a real wom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Barb projects her sockpuppet methods again using TOR or proxies apk. No first for her. She/He's proven to stalk you by anonymous coward posts. Fact is she keeps at least 3 sockpuppet accounts (2 of which are apparently banned) which you've shown too. She's toast. She did it to herself (himself?) again.