Slashdot Mirror


Why the iPhone 6 Has the Same Base Memory As the iPhone 5

Lucas123 writes When the iPhone 5 was launched two years ago, the base $199 (with wireless plan) model came with 16GB of flash memory. Fast forward to this week when the iPhone 6 was launched with the same capacity. Now consider that the cost of 16GB of NAND flash has dropped by more than 13% over the past two years. So why would Apple increase capacity on its $299 model iPhone 6 to 64GB (eliminating the 32GB model), but but keep the 16GB in the $199 model? The answer may lie in the fact that the 16GB iPhone is, and has been, by far the best selling model. IHS analyst Fang Zhang believes Apple is using that to push users to its iCloud storage service. Others believe restricting storage capacity allows Apple to afford the new features, like NFC and biometrics.

264 comments

  1. Memory doesn't cost that much. by NotInHere · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its only to drive people to use cloud services and buy the expensive model for more capacity. Apple would be stupid to satisfy its users.

    1. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are missing the point. All of my Android phones include the ability to add a MicroSD card. I don't care how much memory is on the phone, my data (pictures etc) doesn't reside there. Apple's continued refusal to add a MicroSD slot is just more of their way of ripping off their customers.

    2. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by sribe · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Apple's continued refusal to add a MicroSD slot is just more of their way of ripping off their customers.

      Or, it's just more of keeping things simple. Not requiring users to keep track of what's where, nor which flavor of memory can used to store apps, nor what will disappear when the card is pulled out to replace it and what will remain.

      I don't *want* to use a MicroSD card in my phone. (This, coming from a guy who just built his own ZFS-based 28TB server at home...)

    3. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple would be stupid to satisfy its users.

      Except they do consistently

      http://9to5mac.com/2013/03/21/...

    4. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Your thought process:

      Apple good
      Apple no provide mem expansion card
      Mem expansion good!
      Apple good!
      [conflict!!!!!!!!!!]
      Apple good override!
      Mem expansion bad because "confusing"
      [conflict satisfied]
      Hail Apple!

    5. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't *want* to use a MicroSD card in my phone.

      Then buy the size card you want and glue it in, you'll get the same result. Others shouldn't be inconvenienced just because you don't want choice.

    6. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Richy_T · · Score: 2

      Yeah, those grapes were probably sour anyway, amiright?

    7. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Or, if it is such a traumatic event for you, you can just buy an Android phone, install the card size you want, and leave others alone. So the guy wants a phone without a card, and there is one on the market that has that configuration. Let him be happy.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    8. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Or, it's just more of keeping things simple."

      Or it's a matter of security and user experience. Without an SD card you won't be getting a bunch of forum posts like this one: http://www.droidxforums.com/fo...

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    9. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by u38cg · · Score: 1

      An alternative explanation, because Apple is no doubt exploiting price drops as they happen, is that they've simply realised many users probably don't come close to touching that amount of storage anyway. My wife uses her 5S nonstop and only has about 10GB used.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    10. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Scot+Seese · · Score: 1

      I had this discussion with a coworker the other day. He and his wife have three children, which - as new parents, causes them to generate photos at approximately the firing rate of an MG42 installed inside a pillbox at Normandy.

      So, Apple wants $20/month for their 1 TB iCloud plan.
      DropBox wants $99/year for the same 1 TB.

      Flickr will cheerfully store 1TB FOR FREE.

      I told him this yesterday during a coffee chat - *blink* ... *blink* .. "I'm going to talk to (wifesname) about Flickr tonight."

      Even though I myself am fully in Apple's hardware ecosystem (rMBP, iPhone 5S, AppleTV, Apple Time Capsule, iPad Air, yaddayadda) I prefer to use quality third-party solutions for apps and cloud storage. One of the ways Apple hooks you is with the burden of inconvenience should you ever decide to try something different. What if I wake up tomorrow and want to purchase a nice new LG G3 Android phone?

      - All my photos are privately stored on Flickr, zero inconvenience
      - All my iTunes library is duplicated on Google Play Music, thanks to the awesome Mac desktop toolbar app that constantly monitors your iTunes library, and duplicates it in your Google Play account, up to 20,000 songs FOR FREE.

      For people who shoot tons of photos, those 1 megabyte JPGs are really whats gobbling up most of your cloud storage. iWork documents tend to be very small. Shove those photos onto Flickr and suddenly that free 5gb iCloud Drive storage is more than you'll ever use.

      --
      THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.
    11. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by nofud · · Score: 1

      Memory can cost much, when you sell tens of million devices like Apple do. Worldwide production capacity is not easily extensible and Appleâ(TM)s main competitor (Samsung) has its own source.

      If Apple would offer double size on their lower speced model, they would remove all elasticity of the market and make all the prices go up for everyone, including themselves.

      Except Samsung who manufactures their own stuff...

      --
      -- p a n a p i c - panoramas des alpes: Mont-Blanc, Mont-Rose, Cervin, etc...
    12. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      Or, they could simply write a decent OS, that can handle the Oh-so-difficult (/s) task of loading applications from external storage.

      Maybe, in a distant future, iOS will have feature parity with Symbian. Right now, it's ridiculous that of the three major mobile OSes, none of them does everything that Symbian did back in the day.

    13. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      NO!!!! HE MUST HAVE TEH APPLE HATEZ!!!!!
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      damned cap filter
      effing cap filter
      why can't I yell if I want to, dammit?

    14. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by the_B0fh · · Score: 2

      Did you also tell him about the EULA that you signed when you use FLICKR?

    15. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not trying to fight here: I like expansion slots, and I want one. However, could one proof of what sribe's saying be that there are zero cases of people posting "problems with my iPhone's MicroSD card" online or complaining about issues with their expansion slot to their friends, and the more they simplify the more they eliminate bad publicity or user unhappiness?

    16. Re: Memory doesn't cost that much. by shitzu · · Score: 1

      Its just marketing. If the base model was 32gb not many would shell out the extra 100$ for 64 model. But 16 vs 64 - even i am considering it...

    17. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      You are missing the point. All of my Android phones include the ability to add a MicroSD card. I don't care how much memory is on the phone, my data (pictures etc) doesn't reside there. Apple's continued refusal to add a MicroSD slot is just more of their way of ripping off their customers.

      I don't need to put an SD card in my iPhone - I have the proper cable and 3tb of HDD capacity. The 32gig of memory on my phone is just short term storage for anything I want to keep.

    18. Re: Memory doesn't cost that much. by dfeifer · · Score: 1

      Personally I think the whole argument is meaningless. The reason why the 16gb was the largest seller was because it was the cheapest.

    19. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Does Flickr store RAW yet?

    20. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Or, Apple could make a phone for those of us who want expandable storage and those who don't want that can not buy it, or simply not put a card in the slot. He can still be happy, but then so can I, says the Android user who would be an iPhone user if that one feature existed on the platform.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    21. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      And if you're away for an extended period and want to take a lot of photos or video? That 32GB may not be enough, but the ability to buy a few SD cards and swap them out as you fill them up sure would be useful. If that's not a use case you'll ever encounter, then great, you're all set, but that doesn't mean it's not a use case that exists.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    22. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      No, in general, they don't. Very few Apple customers are satisfied, and that's exactly what Apple wants; a satisfied user doesn't upgrade. I say this as someone who's quite satisfied with my HTC One (M7, not the M8 that came out this year) and iPad Air, but becoming less and less satisfied with my 2011 (e.g. aging hardware) 17" MBP, but sticking with it because I'd be less satisfied with a smaller display and I'm not yet so dissatisfied with it the switch back to a PC.

      To put that into perspective for you, I wanted the M8 when it came out, but the M7 still satisfies my needs; I can't justify the upgrade, so I don't spend the money; if I weren't still satisfied with the M7, I'd have the M8 and HTC would have made more money. Likewise, I'm satisfied with the iPad Air, which is probably good as it's the newest model, but I'll likely remain satisfied with it for as long as it can run the newest version of iOS (or at least the version required for the apps I use), so Apple won't get any more of my money, which they want, there. As for my MBP? Well, Apple could have my money, but they quit making what I want in a laptop, so I simply remain unsatisfied.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    23. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He didn't miss the point; that was exactly his point.

    24. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nexus 4 and 5 come straight from google without SD cards.

    25. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear Apple should make low end phones and don't forget about the xMac. Oh, and please bring back the xServers. Hey, Apple should go into the grocery business. Should they make cars too?

      I hear the pure Android experience phones from Google don't comes with SD expansion. Why is that? I also hear Google has de-emphasized and changed the way Android supports SD storage. The writing is on the wall, SD expansion is on the way out.

      Pick your poison. Apple makes what it makes. If it doesn't satisify your needs, move along, there are other products from different companies.

    26. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is consuming large amounts of time swapping data back and forth. How much are your man hours worth to you, which are finite?

    27. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Brulath · · Score: 2

      User experience is probably pretty key; people will buy the cheapest SD cards they can find (despite some people buying their iPhones up-front, most get them 'free' with plans and like the 'cheap' route). Without some sort of quality control on the cards you could get some pretty dodgy performance. It seems Tom's Hardware did some performance testing of them a while ago, with the slowest random write being 25x slower than the fastest and the slowest random read being 4x slower than the fastest. Those are some pretty large differences.

    28. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      And if you're away for an extended period and want to take a lot of photos or video? That 32GB may not be enough

      On my 16gig 4S I had a ton of apps, nine gig of music, and over 400 pictures - and room to spare. If the 32gig isn't big enough, the problem is more likely self control than anything else.
       

      the ability to buy a few SD cards and swap them out as you fill them up sure would be useful. If that's not a use case you'll ever encounter, then great, you're all set, but that doesn't mean it's not a use case that exists.

      If you've reached that point (exceeding 32 gig) in taking pictures you're either a) a pro who should be using a more appropriate tool in the first place.... or b) taking a ton of pictures you'll never look at again. I'm not arguing it's not a use case, I'm arguing that it's a use case out on the edge of the bell curve. Android is merely pandering by supporting it, and it gives them a sales point over Apple. Meanwhile, 16 gig phones account for half of all iPhones.

    29. Re: Memory doesn't cost that much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know a few folks with Android devices that "run out" of storage constantly because their devices stores to hardware by default. Had a heck if a time figuring out how to move the data with the phone constantly bitching while I tried. Your use case is exactly why I appreciate not having to deal with it. An SD slot for pics and whatnot might be nice but at 128gig I don't see a need anytime soon.

    30. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      I don't need to put an SD card in my iPhone...

      Translation: I can't put an SD card in my iPhone but I know Apple is perfection incarnate so I will convince myself that it does not really harm me. Much. At all. For now.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    31. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      You are missing the point. All of my Android phones include the ability to add a MicroSD card. I don't care how much memory is on the phone, my data (pictures etc) doesn't reside there. Apple's continued refusal to add a MicroSD slot is just more of their way of ripping off their customers.

      You're absolute correct. Google is ripping off users as well with their Android phone too!.

      Oh wait, Google only offers 16 and 32GB Nexus phones and tablets with NO SD SLOT. Perhaps the owner of the Android OS is also guilty of ripping people off!

      Oh wait, you said Apple, not Google.

      Anyhow, managing multiple SD cards is a pain - did you put the app on this one, or that one, or where is that damn music file? Oh wait, why am I getting this error, did I not insert the right SD card? It's fine if you start with a 32GB now, then upgrade to 64GB later and then move on up, but since few Android phones have more than 32GB of internal storage (WHY?!) it means you're limited to 96GB of storage without entering the whole card-swap madness. Hell, I think the SD slot is just an excuse for manufacturers because they know 99% of the time, it'll either be empty, or they'll toss in a 16GB card and it'll live in there for the rest of its life. (Which is probably why they put it so you often have to remove the battery to eject them or other such madness rather than a slot on the outside).

    32. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      When the price difference is soo high between storage sizes on iPhone when SD storage is sooo cheap, its a rip off

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    33. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      I agree Google shouldn't have omitted the SD card slot from their Nexus series. It's one of many reasons I'll never buy a Nexus device again.

      Nobody here is talking about swapping SD cards constantly. What's being talked about is not caring about the capacity of the device you buy. You store apps on the device as there's more than enough space even when they have tiny amounts of memory like 16GB. You store data on one, single, micro SD card. When you run out of space on your micro SD card, you buy a bigger one and copy your data to that.

      That way, upgrading your phone is just a matter of swapping the SIM and SD cards. Your data follows you. It "just works". Rather than the inordinately stupid idea, popularized by Apple and slavishly copied by Google, of copying all your data across from one device to the other, either directly, or via the cloud, all umpteen gigabytes of it. That's ridiculous, that's absurd, and manufacturers should recognize that's a massive inconvenience nobody wants.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    34. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Translation: You're an ignorant jackass with the IQ of a rotting roadkill.

    35. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to my Nexus 5...

    36. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      2 months in the wilderness, hiking so you're packing light. Solar charger strapped to the back of your pack provides enough juice during the day to keep your phone charged. Hoe many photos might one take in 2 months? How much video? microSD cards are lightweight enough that you can carry a few TB with you if you so choose.

      A laptop is ruled out by both its weight and power requirements, while uploading to a cloud provider as you go is ruled out by the fact that it's the middle of the fucking wilderness and you probably don't have signal. Sometimes, you just have to realize that, despite its drawbacks, the only available solution has to be considered as the perfect solution. In this case, it's a microSD slot in your phone.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    37. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      2 months in the wilderness, hiking so you're packing light. Solar charger strapped to the back of your pack provides enough juice during the day to keep your phone charged. Hoe many photos might one take in 2 months? How much video? microSD cards are lightweight enough that you can carry a few TB with you if you so choose.

      Yup. And yet, oddly enough, rather than design their high-end mass-market product for that guy, they chose to design for people with more common lifestyles.

      That's like complaining that your new BMW doesn't go everywhere that your Unimog-based camper with powered trailer can. It may be true, but it shouldn't imply that the BMW was poorly designed for its intended purpose.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    38. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Well, to be fair, Apple targets an audience with plenty of cash. Who goes on 2 month wilderness hikes? Perhaps a better question to illustrate my point: who can afford to go on 2 month wilderness hikes?

      People with plenty of cash. Cash they could use to buy Apple devices.

      Having an SD slot wouldn't stop someone from using the iPhone without an SD card. they could still sell the devices to the same market they currently sell them to, and as a shareholder I would certainly hope they would; but, also as a shareholder, I recognize the market they're missing. My example was extreme, so as to be clear, but there are hundreds of other, more common, scenarios in which an SD slot might be useful.

      Hell, putting on the shareholder hat again, I'd be happy if they just made it an option on the 128GB model. Really, that would be ideal, as it would stop people from buying the 16GB model and slapping a 128GB SD card in it, while opening up a whole market that Apple is not tapping.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    39. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      They could do so, yes, at a small yet non-zero cost to every other user of the device (a tiny amount of money, a larger amount of missing space resulting in a larger phone, less physical battery, or some other similar cost). No design decision is without an impact.

      The fact that they don't attempt to please everyone but aim to please a large percentage of the population just a little bit more than would otherwise be possible has contributed in no small way to their success over the past decade.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    40. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Here's a followup for you:

      My coworker and I took a day trip down Highway 1 this week. I recorded over 30GB of video *on my phone* (while driving) while shooting over 10GB of photos on my camera (while stopped). Now, I'll grant you that my camera is 20MP while my phone is 13MP, so it would have only been 6.5GB of photos, had I taken them with my phone, so we'll use that number. That's still 36.5 GB in a single day, and it wasn't hard to do. At all. Mind you, I was shooting RAW+JPEG; the 10GB of photos is the JPEG portion, the RAW images made up another 30GB that I'm likewise not counting, since my phone wouldn't have used that space, either.

      In case you don't understand, a day trip is one day long, so we're talking about a timeframe of less than a day, here, since no photos or video were taken before we left at 10AM, and very little was taken after dark. 36GB. In a day. Well, less than a day, more like 10 hours. Take a weekend hike, shoot some video, and take photos, and you'll very quickly find that even 113GB of usable space on the the 128GB iPhone 6 is a tight fit. Though, weighing in at only 8MP, my 10GB of images would have taken up 4GB on the iPhone, making the daily total 34GB, rather than 36.5GB; so, in theory, it could last Friday evening, all day Saturday and Sunday, and hope you don't see anything interesting on the way back Monday morning. 2 month wilderness hike need not apply.

      If you've got apps and music on your iPhone, you're screwed for a weekend hike. Better skip the extra rations and water so you can pack a camera with removable storage.

      I'm not sure when I'm gonna get around to editing the video I shot this week, or when I'll have an idle hour to copy it all off the phone, so I'm glad I could just pop out the SD card and pop in another one.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    41. Re:Memory doesn't cost that much. by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      They'd have done well to make the entire phone the thickness of the corner with the camera. *BAM* There's room for an SD slot, and a bigger battery. Oh, and the phone could lay flat on a table.

      My wife loves hers, though. Not judging, just pointing out what I see as flaws that other companies have already solved years ago.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  2. lockin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    it's all about the lockin. Apple has consistently manipulated people.

    1. Re:lockin by gnupun · · Score: 4, Informative

      In an age where 16 GB is available as RAM on many desktops and laptops, it's stupid to sell/buy a computer with only 16 GB persistent storage.

      The iPhone is just an underpowered palm computer with touch interface instead of keyboard/mouse of a laptop. Is the portability premium so high, or the case so shiny, that we have to pay 2 times the cost of a powerful laptop while getting computing power/memory of a 5 year old laptop?

      BTW, please stop calling flash as "Memory" (in the title) because memory is often confused with RAM.

    2. Re:lockin by sribe · · Score: 1

      The iPhone is just an underpowered palm computer with touch interface instead of keyboard/mouse of a laptop. Is the portability premium so high, or the case so shiny, that we have to pay 2 times the cost of a powerful laptop while getting computing power/memory of a 5 year old laptop?

      No, the cost of miniaturized components is higher. And that's not even counting your gross exaggeration, the iPhone is 2 times the cost of a crappy barely-functional laptop, NOT a "powerful" laptop.

    3. Re:lockin by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're using the word 'powerful' to describe an Apple Laptop, aren't you. As in 'powerfully overpriced.' Or 'powerful' in the sense that Limburgher Cheese has a powerful smell. Right?

      Because power in computing is defined by what the user does with the hardware using software, not what some marketing price point dictates. And a powerful laptop ten years ago is still powerful today, thus a $300 laptop from WalMart is powerful in the right hands. A $1600 Mac Book Pro in the hands of the typical user is no more powerful than a $200 chromebook. But it looks shiney.

    4. Re:lockin by jbolden · · Score: 1

      The iPhone 6 isn't close to what you had on a 5 year laptop. 5 years ago: 4g ram, 256g HD, somewhere on the order of 10x the video speeds was standard in a PoS laptop.

    5. Re:lockin by gnupun · · Score: 1

      No, the cost of miniaturized components is higher.

      I looked at the iPhone 6 tear down and the chip sizes are not that much smaller than a laptop's chips. So it's just miniaturized case, motherboard, battery and camera (and the battery holds a lot less charge than a laptop battery).

      And that's not even counting your gross exaggeration, the iPhone is 2 times the cost of a crappy barely-functional laptop, NOT a "powerful" laptop.

      But you can buy a very decent laptop for 1000 bucks, with 10-15 times more RAM, 10 times more processing power with an i7 CPU, and 10-100 times more persistent storage.

    6. Re:lockin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In an age where 16 GB is available as RAM on many desktops and laptops

      Please do not presume to speak for the rest of us. Many of us are still using 32-bit Windows machines and having only 2-4GB of RAM installed.

      But hey, if you're a geek/enthusiast, go ahead and enjoy your 16GB RAM awesome machines. Knock yourself out.

    7. Re:lockin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, here's a 5 year old laptop (a reasonably high end one at that, the i7 720QM was a pretty awesome chip at the time).
      Here's an iPhone 6.

      It appears that actually, an iPhone 6 is indeed roughly as powerful as a 5 year old laptop, more powerful if you care about single core performance.

    8. Re:lockin by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      I looked at the iPhone 6 tear down and the chip sizes are not that much smaller than a laptop's chips. So it's just miniaturized case, motherboard, battery and camera (and the battery holds a lot less charge than a laptop battery).

      I haven't looked at that teardown, but I'm willing to bet that there's a lot FEWER chips because there's more integration within them, not to mention the engineering to fit that many into such a tight space. Mounting chips on BOTH sides of the motherboard? That's not normally seen in laptops or desktops.

      Anyways - from a quick count I got 18 chips in an iphone 6.

      In my laptop the RAM alone is 16 chips. Yes, it's a desktop replacement laptop.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    9. Re:lockin by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      Oh, you are one of those guys who would hold a laptop up to his ear to make phone calls, because Skype is free, right?

    10. Re:lockin by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      BTW, please stop calling flash as "Memory" (in the title) because memory is often confused with RAM.

      Indeed, I was reading the title and summary and thought "Slashdot really is dead" if they confuse memory and storage like the ignorant masses.

    11. Re:lockin by gnupun · · Score: 1

      Well, to make a long story short, the phone is 1/10th in almost every respect compared to a similarly priced laptop (cpu, ram, screen, storage etc) but the price is same as a laptop. Don't you think we deserve a discount for less powerful parts and fewer/cheaper parts used? I bet the RAM does not perform as good as that on the latest laptops. In other words, does apple pay 10 times as much as laptop manufacturers for RAM or flash? Of course not, so why should the consumer?

      Charge a premium for making it compact, and a functionally and aesthetically designed case, but still, it should be priced nowhere near as much as a laptop. Well, maybe we can forgive Apple for overcharging since they are a manufacturer of luxury goods. But other phones (i.e. Samsung etc.) should not be charging the same ridiculous premiums Apple is charging.

    12. Re:lockin by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      If only submitters edited the summaries to be pedantically correct, /. could truly become a refuge from the the usual 14m3r crowd.

      but in a sense, the article is correct; the iphone 6 has the same gigabyte as the iphone 5.

    13. Re:lockin by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Very interesting. Good analysis. That's way below what I had 5 years ago and I owned the cheapest laptop of my life then but your argument is reasonable.

    14. Re:lockin by sootman · · Score: 1

      > In an age where 16 GB is available as RAM on many desktops and laptops...
      >The iPhone is just an underpowered palm computer...

      Do you realize how big 16 GB of desktop RAM physically IS? And do you realize how fucking SMALL a modern smartphone is?

      "Underpowered"? Compared to what, exactly? Please, show me a palm-sized computer from ANY manufacturer with all the power of a current desktop computer -- I'd love to have one.

      Yes, the "portability premium" IS pretty goddamn high to make AN ENTIRE COMPUTER about the size of a laptop's hard drive alone. Do you actually CARRY your laptop in your pocket? No? Hmm, I wonder why that is... (And if you say "yes", then you've got a tiny netbook AND big pockets... and I'll bet my next year's pay that I can find a more powerful and larger computer.)

      Also, there's this little thing called "physics"... how big do you want the battery to be to run a device at a certain performance level for any reasonable amount of time? Do you think there's no difference between the current draw of a big stomping desktop compared to a smartphone?

      Seriously, how did you get a "+5, Insightful" out of that? All the smart people must be doing something besides reading Slashdot this weekend.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    15. Re:lockin by gnupun · · Score: 1

      Yes, the "portability premium" IS pretty goddamn high to make AN ENTIRE COMPUTER about the size of a laptop's hard drive alone.

      Sorry, I don't buy it that the premium is so ridiculously high. They took a dumb phone and added a more powerful cpu, a touch screen and more RAM -- that's about it. A laptop is a stripped down PC (you can't plug in your device card in the pci/pcie slot). And a smartphone is a stripped down laptop so they are similar but not the same thing shrunk down.

      "Underpowered"? Compared to what, exactly?

      Compared to a currently selling laptop, obviously. But it's priced same/higher than that laptop. Why?

      Also, there's this little thing called "physics"... how big do you want the battery to be to run a device at a certain performance level for any reasonable amount of time? Do you think there's no difference between the current draw of a big stomping desktop compared to a smartphone?

      Fine, don't run it at the performance level of a laptop. But then don't charge the customer the same price as a laptop. The CPU speed/RAM size vary as much as 10 times between an iphone 6 and a $1000 laptop. That's a ripoff.

      Seriously, how did you get a "+5, Insightful" out of that?

      Okay, smart guy, you better address all the points I'm making both in this post and the thread. Don't be intellectually dishonest, like many slashdotters, by skipping portions of text that contradict your point of view.

    16. Re:lockin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the laptop is such a better deal, just buy the laptop. Easy peasy.

  3. Derp Post? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Derp Post!

    1. Re: Derp Post? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. Derp.

  4. Yes and yes... by bogaboga · · Score: 1

    The answer may lie in the fact that the 16GB iPhone is, and has been, by far the best selling model.

    Therein lies the answer. It's always about the money. Period.

    1. Re:Yes and yes... by laird · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Best selling means that most actual consumers think that 16 GB is enough. That means that while _you_ want more storage in a smartphone, most people don't. That doesn't make them wrong. :-)

    2. Re:Yes and yes... by h2oliu · · Score: 2

      So true. I wonder what the ratio business/consumer is. For a business user who needs internet, mail, phone, and maybe a few additional apps, 16 will be completely appropriate. I think this is part of the reason for the jump to 64. You either need very little additional space, or you need significantly more.

      --
      Ok, I give up, why you?
    3. Re:Yes and yes... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Best selling means that most actual consumers think that 16 GB is enough. That means that while _you_ want more storage in a smartphone, most people don't. That doesn't make them wrong. :-)

      Up to now, you had to pay a lot of money to upgrade from 16GB to 32GB. Now you get 64GB for the same money. I'd think the percentage of 64GB purchasers will go up.

    4. Re:Yes and yes... by fluffy99 · · Score: 1

      Or that if you signed up for a phone plan, they gave you the base 16-gig model, and upgrading was really expensive.

    5. Re:Yes and yes... by snsh · · Score: 2

      It's a value decision. Consumers didn't want to pay a $100 premium for the additional 16GB.

    6. Re: Yes and yes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as they keep calling it "memory," they ARE wrong.

    7. Re:Yes and yes... by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      Best selling means that most actual consumers think that 16 GB is enough. That means that while _you_ want more storage in a smartphone, most people don't. That doesn't make them wrong. :-)

      Exactly. The base storage in many Android phones has been stuck at 16GB for a while - e.g. the Galaxy S5 (which admittedly has a SD slot) and the Nexus 5 (which doesn't).

      If you're streaming your media and can cope with occasionally deleting apps you don't use (given that you can re-install them anytime, anywhere), 16GB is plenty. If you want to carry a decent media collection for offline use, you want 64GB+.

      Now, whether Apple is gouging people on storage costs is another matter - but like all mass-produced electronics the production volume and logistics of multiple SKUs can be as important as the bill of material costs.

      Personally, lack of a microSD slot has been a deal-breaker for me, which is why I've stuck with android, However, I know others (including techies) who are happy with 16MB.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    8. Re:Yes and yes... by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Best selling means that most actual consumers think that 16 GB is enough. That means that while _you_ want more storage in a smartphone, most people don't. That doesn't make them wrong. :-)

      Up to now, you had to pay a lot of money to upgrade from 16GB to 32GB. Now you get 64GB for the same money. I'd think the percentage of 64GB purchasers will go up.

      And even more importantly, if the majority of people who owned 16 GB iPhones of a previous model were unsatisfied with that amount of storage, you would have seen a gradual increase year-over-year of the higher-capacity models as they replaced their older iPhone with a newer one, and a gradual decrease in the base model. But that apparently hasn't happened, even over 6 iterations and seven years.

      So, once again, typical, immature, self-centered Slashtards (not you, gnashed). It wouldn't suit my needs; so it cannot suit anyone's needs.

    9. Re:Yes and yes... by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Planned obsolescent headphones and chargers,

      I know the plural of anecdote is not data; but I have never had a failure of either of those devices, from chargers for PowerBooks through several generations of iBooks through my current MBP and also an iPod Gen 5, my iPhone 4s and iPad 2, to my iPhone's earbud/microphone headset.

      Not one of them has failed, despite abuse such as repeatedly using my iPhone charger to charge my iPad. Not even supposed to work; but it does.

      Perhaps you're holding it wrong? (j/k)

    10. Re:Yes and yes... by macs4all · · Score: 1

      So true. I wonder what the ratio business/consumer is. For a business user who needs internet, mail, phone, and maybe a few additional apps, 16 will be completely appropriate. I think this is part of the reason for the jump to 64. You either need very little additional space, or you need significantly more.

      This, This, THIS!!!

      I think you are exactly correct: There are essentially two distinct classes of users: Those who have zero extra Apps, zero Music/Video, and 10 photos on their phone (e.g., the two owners of the software company I work for, both of whom are not in any way technophobes), and those who "live in their phone/tablet".

      I am pretty sure Apple looked at the sales figures, and figured out that the middle-tier would be better served by bumping it up to 64 GB (at the same price point as 32 GB), while the 16 GB users weren't even beginning to challenge that storage limit, and never would. Hence the reason that Android phones apparently often still start at 16 GB, too, even ones without SD storage.

    11. Re: Yes and yes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does anyone remember the Apple commercial from 1984?

      No.

      I'm surprised that you do.

      Now you can return to your "get off my lawn, you kids" routine ...

    12. Re:Yes and yes... by laird · · Score: 1

      To state the obvious, if people didn't think that 16 GB was enough storage, they'd buy more of the models with more storage.

      Surprisingly large percentages of smartphone buyers only install a few apps and no media. They apparently talk on the thing! :-) For them, paying more for more storage would be a waste of money.

      Look, if people want what you don't, that doesn't mean that they're all deceived and "fleeced", it means that most people care about things you don't care about. I had an engineer who reacted to the iPod Nano launch with the verdict that it was "stupid" and that nobody would buy one because the price/storage ratio was terrible, and it couldn't store all your music, after which the Nano rapidly became the best selling MP3 player of all time (at the time). Because what people cared about wasn't storage, or cost per GB, it was convenient access to some music, and a nice looking, durable, easy to use device.

    13. Re: Yes and yes... by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      There's no planned obsolescence in chargers. It was a better design and so that's what Apple went with. The Lightning port design is so good that the next revision of USB connectors is going to have a reversible connector as well. Are you going to whine about the upgraded port on your next android phone, too?

      Sometimes old designs are outdated and need to be fixed. Try not to take it personally.

    14. Re:Yes and yes... by macs4all · · Score: 1

      They are well made devices, for the most part. It is usually an obvious wear point or flaw in design that will force the heavy-handed to purchase more. The macbook charger (2008, mine) tends to fall out of outlets. It is heavy and brittle plastic and would easily have been destroyed if I didn't tether it to the table. The charge ports are not usb or mini-usb or micro-usb, like all sane phones have been for years.

      1. Every single device with a cable has problems at the point where the strain-relief stops. Ever had a pair of headphones/earbuds with an annoyingly intermittent cable? That's the physics of abuse; not a design flaw. As you said: "Heavy-Handed". As I said, I haven't had any problems, even with an iPod/iPhone charger cable that looked like it was going to fail at any second (exposed shield braid, etc.). Meh. Next...

      2. My 2013 MBP charger doesn't hang onto the AC socket with as much retention force as I'd like. That is because the AC plugin "Blades" aren't like what we grew up with, i.e., the "Spring-Leaf" contact-type. It's a common issue with new "Flat-bladed" AC cables of all sorts. However, you can get some more "grip" force by either taking the AC plug "blades" and pinching them together with your thumb and forefinger, or (gently) taking a pair of needle-nose pliers and prying the blades apart just a little. Nothing beats the old "leaf-type" contacts, because you could stick a small screwdriver in between the "leaves" and pry them apart; but what I suggested actually helps.

      Also, it might be your wall-socket. First off, not all sockets are created equal; some have significantly higher "Retention Force" than others (in fact, I have a Power Strip at work that you damned-near have to PRY the plugs out with a screwdriver! I hate it...). But also, wall sockets, actually do not last forever; I had to replace some old wall sockets in my house a couple of years ago, because NOTHING would stay plugged in. They were simply worn-out.

      3. As for your experience with Best Buy, I'm pretty sure you could have bitched up the chain and gotten your old Nano back. Apple did change the way they implemented their On-Lavalier controls, though (the original design used an I2C interface, and the latter used some resistor-value trickery, IIRC), and obviously, the two control-interfaces were not compatible; but I agree that they should have included a set of the new earbuds if your old ones were going to be (somewhat) incompatible. Again, how much bitching did you actually do?

    15. Re:Yes and yes... by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Not to Reply to myself; but didn't your MBP AC Adaptor also come with that "AC extender" Cable? You know, the one with the AC Plug on one end, and the weird end that plugs in where the flip-out "AC Plug" mates with the Charger? WIth that, you can leave the (heavy) Charger on the floor, and simply plug the (MUCH lighter) Extender Cable into the Wall Socket.

      Just a thought...

    16. Re:Yes and yes... by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Yes, it did come with the adapter mate, but I thought I would condense what was in my computer bag and got rid of it. So that's on me, but it still is like giving people the rope to hang themselves with.

      Well, if you actually threw it away instead of just sticking it in a drawer, then yeah, I'd say that was kinda dumb. However; you could still just use a $1.49 extension cord to accomplish the same thing (albeit a little less elegantly). So, you might try that if you are (kind of understandably) skittish about bending the adapter's prongs.

      Actually, now that you mention it, I did bitch enough to get a 10$ or 20$ credit to bestbuy for the headphones, but I couldn't find any with inline controls that head ear loops. It seems like with all the design focus, they would realize how useless the earbuds are for some people.

      Well, maybe now that Apple owns Beats... ;-)

      Same with 'Apple certified memory' or whatever it's called that costs like 200$ for a couple 2gig sticks (a few years ago, but still at least twice what an equivalent product would have been elsewhere), another price gouge for people that don't know any better.

      Name me a "brand" that doesn't do that shit. "Use only (brand name) Power Adapter". How many times have you seen that? Now you want to hold Apple to a higher standard? While I agree it is a tax on the uninformed, it's not like it is downright dishonesty. At this point, if you're both too uninformed to know better, and too arrogant or lazy to ask/research, then I'm afraid that that is what stuff like (for example) "Genuine GM Parts" are for...

      But sometimes, there is a difference (like when I replaced the Tire Pressure Sensors on my GM vehicle with OEM parts); but the trick is knowing when it matters, and when it doesn't.

      That is called "being an informed consumer."

  5. Nand flash Dropped only 13% in 2 years? by rolfwind · · Score: 1

    That doesn't sound right. Can anybody confirm?

    1. Re:Nand flash Dropped only 13% in 2 years? by aix+tom · · Score: 2

      I only found a courve of the "2008 to end of 2010" prices. Which interestingly rose to double the value in the middle, just to be back on the 2008 level in 2010.

      https://technology.ihs.com/388...

      But one interesting fact seems to be, that spot price for 16GB NAND Flash seems only 19 cents below 32GB NAND Flash (2.79 vs 2.98 ):

      http://www.insye.com/dp/NANDFl...

      (with 4 and 8GB being *more* expensive, probably because they are not produced in high volumes any more)

    2. Re:Nand flash Dropped only 13% in 2 years? by thue · · Score: 1

      Prices fell more like 40%: http://www.jcmit.com/flashpric...

  6. Maybe it's because... math? by PsychoSlashDot · · Score: 1

    So you've got a part that costs X, and after two years the cost is reduced by 13%, meaning that the part now costs .87 times X. You can continue to use this part, offering either a 13% reduction in the portion of your overall price that is contributed by this part, or you can maintain overall price and reap slightly more profit. You can also decide to use two of this part to increase device capacity, and now your cost is 1.74 times the original X. You can now reduce your profits by keeping your overall price despite increased cost, or you can increase your product price and hope that purchasers absorb the change

    TL;DR? 13% is a trivial cost reduction compared to doubling the cost while doubling the memory.

    Or maybe it's just that the electrical engineer doing the circuit layouts was wearing a green shirt that day. Analyst Foo Kin Ublivius believes green shirts cause electrical engineers to be afraid of increasing memory quantities. Others believe memory in smartphones are made from the ground-up brain matter of orphans and restricting storage capacity allows Apple to save their orphans for more important things like assembling iPads.

    --
    "Oh no... he found the .sig setting."
    1. Re: Maybe it's because... math? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cost difference of 16 vs 32gb ram WAS around 16%. That is what the 13% drop alludes to.

  7. It costs power by mozumder · · Score: 0

    Which is why less chips the better. No need to add a couple more chips in the stack always drawing some current if you don't need it.

    And for phones, power reduction is the most important goal.

    Additionally, who uses more than a few apps anyways? Most people just stick with their core group of apps they regularly use.

    And, it's only 64 GB - 64 GB isn't 100 TB. 100TB would be a completely different use model from 16GB or 64 GB.

    For example, movies are always streamed now - you don't store your Netflix movies locally. So you don't need a huge data library.

    1. Re: It costs power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't know my kids. They use up 64Gb with hundreds of apps.

    2. Re:It costs power by NotInHere · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, don't store the stuff locally because that needs power and then stream the content over the air instead, because that doesn't need power.

    3. Re:It costs power by Sarten-X · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's about right. I just checked my iPhone (4s), and in over two years of use, never cleaning anything, I've barely passed 5GB. By far the biggest use of space is recorded videos, followed by photos, then several big apps.

      I'm not going to say "16 gigabytes ought to be enough for anybody," but it is enough for many people right now. Maybe they use ICloud, or maybe they're following good habits to move photos off of their easily-lost phone, or maybe like me their primary usage model is streaming and other ephemeral data. I just don't see a pressing need to add more memory on the low-end model. There doesn't have to be some sneaky marketing plan to say "this is good enough for now."

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    4. Re:It costs power by RandomUsername99 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Local music can easily blow through that limit. Mine does. Streaming stuff is fine in urban areas, but if you travel outside of urban areas with little phone service regularly, and you don't want to carry another device, it's pretty irritating to be significantly limited in the amount to music you can carry.

    5. Re: It costs power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Almost nobody ive met clears pics off their phone until its full. 64gb in the hands of these people would be a massive disaster waiting to happen.

    6. Re:It costs power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Tell that to my kids.
      They filled up their 16GB ipad within a month with apps,pictures and videos.
      And then try to update your iOS version which needs 7GB....

    7. Re: It costs power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a NAS and store everything locally. Not at the whim of what Netflix has available

    8. Re:It costs power by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Amazin Prime does...

      We have several movies downloaded to our iPads for use while away from WiFi...

    9. Re:It costs power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because those are the only sites on the internet providing streaming? Youtube videos are easy to rip for local storage. There is also plenty of "stuff" that is not video streams, but will still need to be downloaded from the cloud when i could just store it locally.

      And local storage do not care about networking issues. Storing things in iCloud puts the security on the user it seems, so thats not really a nice place to store anything safely unless you are a security concious being and know what you are doing - not your average user.

    10. Re:It costs power by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      Well, if you know that you're gonna need more local storage you can just get the model with more local storage. But I do think this is mostly just a case of there not really being all that much demand for models with more local storage. Or rather, there are a lot of users who are perfectly happy with 16 GB so there's no point in discontinuing that model.

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    11. Re:It costs power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It costs power Which is why less chips the better.

      This is total bullshit. NAND which is not used is completely passive. Its one of it's major advantages for use in mobile phones. In fact, more memory means needing to do rewriting and wear levelling less agressively (you just keep writing into unused memory and then do bigger blocks later) so it probably actually saves battery.

      There is one simple and clear reason why big companies don't give people things they might want.

      because they can

      CAPTCHA: aborted (!)

    12. Re:It costs power by WebmasterNeal · · Score: 2

      I agree. That's why I prefer phones with removable storage. I have a 64gb card in mine with all my music on it.

      --
      "During My Service In The United States Congress, I Took The Initiative In Creating The Internet." -Al Gore
    13. Re: It costs power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Almost nobody ive met clears pics off their phone until its full. 64gb in the hands of these people would be a massive disaster waiting to happen.

      Except with iPhones the user doesn't really need to think about this, since anytime they're on wifi their phone pictures are going to sync to iCloud.

      Although given recent events, we don't need to think very hard to come up with potential downsides regarding this system... but I'm just speaking strictly to the idea people with larger phones have more photos to lose.

    14. Re:It costs power by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      7GB for an upgrade? I think you've mistaken this for your Samsung Galaxy touchwiz crap... :)

    15. Re:It costs power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was 'only' about a 1GB download, but had to be unzipped, then moved etc so it had a lot of requirements for intermediate storage.

    16. Re: It costs power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the iPad really does require 7GB of free space to perform the upgrade. You get most of it back afterwards, but still.

    17. Re:It costs power by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      I don't think you appreciate how bizarre this sounds to those of us who used to have cassette tapes.

    18. Re:It costs power by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      I used to think that too, but I've had a Samsung phone that I *could* put an SDcard in for four years now and I've never put one in. But I still value the option of doing so enough that I won't consider an iPhone until they have an SDcard slot.

    19. Re:It costs power by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      Streaming stuff is fine in urban areas, but if you travel outside of urban areas with little phone service regularly, and you don't want to carry another device, it's pretty irritating to be significantly limited in the amount to music you can carry.

      Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick - just how much music do you need? On my (recently replaced with a 32gb 5S*) 16gb 4S I could have a ton of apps, several hundred photos, and still have room for six days (continuous play, no repeat) worth of tunes.

      As the grandparent said, this isn't some sneaky marketing plan... I suspect16gb really is enough for most common usage.

      *Pretty much just because I could.

    20. Re:It costs power by drakken33 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I live in an urban area and make do with a 16GB phone. I stream music (urban use) and save playlists to my phone (rural, train or motorway use) for day to day use but put up with carrying an iPod Classic when I'm away for any length of time, especially when going abroad, or for long train journeys. Carrying the extra device doesn't both me for the sort of trips I use my iPod for.

      --
      Andy.
    21. Re:It costs power by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      > I just don't see a pressing need to add more memory on the low-end model.

      more RAM is always welcome, and a mere 1GB is criminal in this day and age

    22. Re:It costs power by tepples · · Score: 2

      It's not just music. Movies take a lot more space. And you don't necessarily know days in advance which piece of music will be apropos in a particular situation.

    23. Re: It costs power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not if you upgrade via iTunes. The 4-7GB needed space is only required if you are using the OTA upgrade option. Same for the iPhone and iPod Touch.

    24. Re:It costs power by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Movies are irrelevant, as they weren't the topic of conversation. And your comment about music is bilge - 9 gigs (my current collection) is over a thousand songs. If you can't find an "appropriate" (whatever the heck you mean by that) selection in there, the problem isn't lack of memory on your phone.

      Seriously, like several commenters on this subthread, you're way the heck out on the end of the bell curve - but blithely unaware of it.

    25. Re: It costs power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use local storage for video both taken and for viewing. I travel and no way are you streaming jack on that connection! That said my iPad takes the brunt of that use but a 6+ screen looks like it'll be great for shows. Some if the new games out are also fairly big, no way would just 16gig be enough for me after the OS was loaded.

    26. Re:It costs power by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      After all those years I grew tired of 128 kbps MP3 for the music.

    27. Re:It costs power by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Spending more time more often to manage and decide for the subset of music you want to listen to is boring.

    28. Re: It costs power by Elbart · · Score: 1

      So much for "cutting the cord".
      How were people with those low-end 8GB-iPhones doing the OTA-update?

    29. Re:It costs power by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      For example, movies are always streamed now - you don't store your Netflix movies locally. So you don't need a huge data library.

      Always? No. I have plenty of videos stored on my phone but then again I don't do Netflix or cloud storage, youtube is about the only thing I stream. But then again I have an sd slot so storage ain't really a big issue. You are correct in your assentation though that 64GB isn't 100TB so well done there.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    30. Re:It costs power by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Heaven forbid you have to ''put up with carrying an iPod Classic'', sure is a hard life eh?

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    31. Re:It costs power by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Local music can easily not blow through that limit.

      Shocking as it may seem to you, people's usage varies.

      Mine [i.e. my music collection, not your music collection] does not (make any impression on that limit).

      Shocking as it may seem to you, it consists a few hundred kilobytes of sound files for various bings and bongs which come as part of an OS. Actually, I don't really know how much it contains, since I've never looked, and don't have more than a vague idea on which partition it's stored. Streaming ... I've heard of it. Is there any reason whatsoever to find out anything further about it?

      On the other hand, I clock up 10-20GB of photos each year, though I wouldn't use a camera phone for that. Unless I got a microscope attachment for it. Good point - I'll need to look at that, unless the client gets down and actually puts together a microphotography suite.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    32. Re:It costs power by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      One thing I've found with my 16gig Sony Z2 is 1080p slow motion videos funnily enough use a lot of space.
      Probably should have thought about that.......

      At least I can add a micro SD card to it.

  8. Because of Apple engineering by m00sh · · Score: 1, Informative

    It is obviously because Apple has engineered iOS so well that it only requires a fraction of the memory that Android does.

    And, iOS8 has such wonderful memory technologies that Apple developed that even new apps only need a small fraction of the memory that they would need in Android and iOS7. So, there was absolutely no need to put extra memory that will never be used.

    1. Re:Because of Apple engineering by Ihunda · · Score: 1

      This is not RAM but flash storage!

    2. Re:Because of Apple engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Crap, looks like you forgot the /sarcasm

    3. Re:Because of Apple engineering by laird · · Score: 2

      If most users are buying 16 GB phones and are happy with that, why would Apple add more storage to the base model? Instead they can take the dollar or two saved and use that to pay for the improved camera, glass, etc., which people might care about more.

    4. Re:Because of Apple engineering by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      and PBA will not be able to run the SAM games due to low ram they need up to about 128-256 just to hold the roms in ram and then you have game engine + os on top of that.

    5. Re:Because of Apple engineering by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Music files and Video files take sooooo much less space on iOS !

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    6. Re:Because of Apple engineering by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Actually iOS 8 uses more storage than iOS 7.

      I prefer storage as the term. You store data on the 16 GB and the memory is the run time ram.
      However I think the cost is the big difference. Apple lies their price points. The $699 price has been the same for how many revisions? They probably just can't get 32gb under that number.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    7. Re:Because of Apple engineering by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Lies, likes oops. Damn android swipe autocorrect.

      Typed from my nexus 7.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    8. Re: Because of Apple engineering by galgon · · Score: 1

      Have you looked at NAND prices? The difference between 32 gigs and 128 gigs is like $12. Apple charges $200 for the privilege. They don't even list 16 gigs on the pricing sites anymore. This is the reason why I buy the 16 gig version because the upgrade isn't worth $200 to me. If it was $50 (a mere 300% markup) I would pay for the upgrade.

    9. Re:Because of Apple engineering by Richy_T · · Score: 0

      In that case, they should probably just increase the size of the Apple logo by 20%

    10. Re:Because of Apple engineering by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 2

      Why add more? To sell more stuff on iTunes, that's why.

      We have a pair of 16GB iPads. They are chock full and have been for awhile.

      Some apps are approaching 2GB each now (Real Racing and Infinity Toy Box are two examples).

      We could fill 64GB without any trouble. It would be nice to be able to download more than two movies for offline use as well.

      If it were priced reasonable, I'd be happy to pay a bit more for storage. But when a 256GB SSD is approaching $100, it is insulting to charge $100 for 48GB of storage. Double that when you consider the SSD has no other income stream (iTunes) and has to come with a controller and processor. The iPad/iPhone already has those, so the jump from 16GB to 128GB would cost Apple perhaps $20.

      Even selling that for $100 is nuts, but fair enough.

    11. Re: Because of Apple engineering by pushing-robot · · Score: 1

      Memory chips, NAND and DRAM, are usually quoted in Gb. Not GB. I WISH flash was at $0.125/GB.

      Apple probably pays close to $50 for 128 gigs... Still a huge markup, but it's meant to offset the low (by Apple standards, at least) markups on their base models.

      You can look up BOMs for more accurate estimates of product costs and margins... Just keep in mind that they don't include any company expenses (retail, transportation, support, R&D, sales & marketing, management, legal, and so on).

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    12. Re:Because of Apple engineering by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      Not sure if a magnificent troll, or a magnificent Apple shill...

    13. Re:Because of Apple engineering by Elbart · · Score: 1

      I heard iOS-bytes only need to save seven bits, is that true?

  9. upselling to the masses by alen · · Score: 1

    Usual strategy is to sell at high margins to a small percentage of your customers. In Apple's case they are doing it the opposite way. I think ive read nvidia and amd do the same with graphics cards as well where the performance models are the lower margin sku.

  10. There have been studies by LennyDotCom · · Score: 1

    It turns out MOST people use very few apps.
    The need for more then 16GB is a very small part of the market.
    Why add more flash that won't be used?

    --
    http://Lenny.com
    1. Re:There have been studies by gnupun · · Score: 1

      Then add a microSD slot with support for 64GB memory slot. On a grandma/grandpa or luddite would be okay with only 16GB.

    2. Re:There have been studies by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Bingo! You just described the iOS market. Where I work, only the bosses and people with gray hair use iPhones.

    3. Re:There have been studies by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      I wish they'd do that, especially on iPads. I have a 64GB iPhone that has less than 20GB in use, mostly music and navigation software for Europe and the US. But I usually stick a bunch of movies on my iPad when I travel, for personal in flight entertainment, and they fill up the available space quite fast. Having an SD card for that would be great.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    4. Re:There have been studies by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 1

      Do you know why that is? Because the younger generation will do anything to differentiate themselves from their parent's generation. Even if means abandoning a good product.

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    5. Re:There have been studies by jzilla · · Score: 1

      luckily there are many better product available for less.

  11. Easy by Exitar · · Score: 2

    An expanded memory will be the new wonderful feature of the iPhone 7 that all the world was expecting.

  12. Say what now by Dorianny · · Score: 1

    Personally I have little use for a large amount of storage. My music collection is small, I don't care to watch videos on my phone and I prefer not to keep my entire picture library on it. As long as the OS doesn't take up a unreasonable amount of space 16gb works just fine for me.

  13. It's psychology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you were to make the bottom 32 gig and the next level up 64 gig, much less people would pay the extra money and buy the 64 gig which more than likely has a higher margin for Apple. This way people who don't care will still by the 16 gig but many people will take a much longer look at paying a bit extra for the 64 gig.

  14. asked then answered by ihtoit · · Score: 1

    companies like Apple buy everything in bulk. They probably thought that buying up as many 16GB modules as possible would cover them over the production lifecycle of the 5, which it has, but now they've got crates of the 16GB chips they have to use somewhere: so how about the budget next generation phones? Once the 16GB models are gone, you won't see 16GB iphone 7s.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    1. Re:asked then answered by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      I've made a similar point earlier. If they're out to sell iCloud, they're doing a bad job of it. You can't store apps on the cloud, and not a lot of apps store app specific data to make the iCloud free tier feel constrained.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    2. Re:asked then answered by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      By apps on the cloud, I mean, you can't have apps that your phone can use in the cloud. Deleting and shuffling apps around just because you're on the 16 gig tier phone isn't great a UX either. I think they'd rather just throw in more storage if people had that problem.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    3. Re:asked then answered by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      agreed, local user storage isn't the priority for budget phones, if they're using the same processors then that proves the point. You would be able to use exactly the same apps on the 16GB version as you could on the 64GB version; the difference is how much space is left for your Kanye West back catalogue.

        (how much of a typical iphone app is actually userland content rather than executable code?)

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    4. Re:asked then answered by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      For most non games? A few megs. For things like, specialized medical scanners or tools to interface with random heavy equipment? Probably way more.

      It's games really that fill my iPhone. Well, games and podcasts. :)

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  15. Two words - Price point by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1

    "What can we include to meet a specific price point?" In this case, $200.
    If that means Feature A (total GB) has to suffer to include Feature B (NFC)....so be it.

    1. Re:Two words - Price point by fluffy99 · · Score: 1

      http://www.computerworld.com/a...
      Bumping from 16-GB to 64-GB costs approximately $25 in parts, or less considering Apples bulk purchasing power.. But Apple of course charges a $100 premium.

    2. Re:Two words - Price point by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      A 5 cent part in a car ends up costing $5, but you're OK with it being a 100x the part price.

      $25 in parts ending up costing $100, and you bitch about a 4X increase.

      Good thing you're not in business, or you'd rapidly go out of business.

  16. real use case by fermion · · Score: 1

    To upgrade my phone to IOS 8 I had to free some space. This basically involved deleted some Apps that I never use that were taking a great deal of space. I don't buy apple movies because they can be only played on apple devices, so the majority of data is music, most of which is stored on the cloud, and photos. I know people have almost no music on their devices, but stream everything. To be honest, streaming has meant that many people do not have to deal with the hassle of local storage. Though we can get into a philosophical argument, the fact is that I do not store as much on my mobile devices as I once did. Even my laptop now has less stuff on it. As to why there is still a 16GB model, that is obvious. Apple needs an entry level device and is not willing to enter the cut rate phone market. Amazon has done this with a 99 cent 32GB model and at $99 64GB model. Obviously they are hoping customers buy the 64GB model even though what is essentially $100 for a 32GB upgrade is essentially highway robbery. Some will do it even though the pricing structure provides little value. Most cell phone companies do this. Apple, being a premium device, is just a little more aggressive.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  17. Undespecced in every way even at $800 by tuppe666 · · Score: 0

    Ignoring the usual America centric hire purchase model that makes the me too iphone acceptable in America with a market share there of 40% yet 10% everywhere else when you have to pay $800 vs $200.

    The me too iPhone is underspecced in every way; Not just storage but ram, screen resolution, both camera resolutions (The front is a disgrace), and still on only two cores. It does not even compete with phones costing half the price a year ago. Yet it still lacks features such as IR Blaster, Waterproofing...or even a radio.

    The fact that it still has no removable battery...or more importantly to this apologists topic the removable sdcard on a me too phone with tiny resolution is a disgrace.

    1. Re:Undespecced in every way even at $800 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't get it. It's not the individual specs that make a difference but how it all works together. It may be under spec'd in every way, but it beats the pants off the quad-core competition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6d7Fes-eHA As I heard someone else say, you don't measure the beauty of a woman by her bust size. It's the whole that counts.

    2. Re:Undespecced in every way even at $800 by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      Other than display, why is it benchmarking better than the Samsung Galaxy S5?

      Half the cores, half the ram, and ... no appreciable gain in performance.

      Never mind last year's 300 dollar phones.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    3. Re:Undespecced in every way even at $800 by sphealey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      _My_ car has a 6 bbl carburetor

      I listen to the spec war arguments among my under-30 developers and all I hear is my friends sitting around a garage in 1978 arguing over whose engine had more horsepower. HP which they could never use because of the poor state of tires, steering systems, and suspension design in the 1970s. I could pop a new chip in my 2012 family sedan and vaporize any of those 1970s garage rods at the stoplight with half the nominal horsepower. It is all about what suits the purpose, not who has the "better" spec numbers.

      sPh

      Interesting thing is that the majority of Android spec warrior techs I meet are adamant Microsoft partisans and not only hate all things Apple but Unix and Linux as well.

    4. Re:Undespecced in every way even at $800 by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      And some how, this dual core, and half clocked cpu, out performs nearly every quad core and octo core Android phone on the market. Have you even asked yourself why this is? And what would happen if Apple did decide to go double clock speed and quad core...?

      As for resolution, show me a sRGB capable screen on Android please.

    5. Re:Undespecced in every way even at $800 by drkoemans · · Score: 1

      You must be new here, don't be so god damned sensible. My favorite part is how we generalize what is good enough for everyone. I have a 64GB iPhone and I don't need the space, I just don't want to think about it. I shoot a lot of video and while I have a $4000 camera I often shoot B roll on my phone because I want to. And since no one bought my phone for me I'm confused why anyone would care what I do with it.

      Take heed everyone and be thankful we are blessed to be a in a place and time where not only do these things exist but that many of us on this forum can afford them. It is an embarrassment of riches.

    6. Re:Undespecced in every way even at $800 by drkoemans · · Score: 1

      And what would happen if Apple did decide to go double clock speed and quad core...?

      My guess is it would catch fire if the battery lasted longer than 10 min, and this from a stalwart iOS user.

    7. Re:Undespecced in every way even at $800 by thesupraman · · Score: 1

      I am having some trouble seeing your point..

      So, if I get this right, the people wanting to show off their nice new shiny 'ITS A REAL APPLE!' devices are the overly focused hotrodders overspending on things they dont really need in the hope of a bit more social position, right?

      And the people buying a perfectly functional android phone for 1/3 the price, and not upgrading it to this 'latest model' endlessly are the sane ones, hmmm?

      In that care, I could not agree more!

      Of course if you are trying to say that spending very top dollar on an iPhone is 'sensible' but looking at the fact that an equivalently priced android phone has more features, higher specifications, etc is foolish, then I think perhaps you partook of just a little too much of the happy powder somewhere along the line.

      Hell, even apply compare themselves to 'luxury brands' now... and for good reason.

  18. You need to explain jokes and thre references. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    64GB or 64KB - Bill Gates - 1980 something - ....

    Parent, you're old like me. Anyway, when Matlock is available in its entirity on iTunes, I'll sit there on pudding night at the home and just veg.

    1. Re:You need to explain jokes and thre references. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      64KB was Steve Jobs.

  19. Low resolution Selfie on a me too 11GB phone by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    I prefer not to keep my entire picture library on it.

    With its tiny resolution cameras you don't need a lot of storage. It is only 8MP the selfie cam is an astonishingly small 1.2. I agree though mobile devices should advise space free not total amount. In this case iOS 8 takes up 5GB of that space so should advertise itself as a 11GB phone

  20. I wouldn't call flash memory "base" by mark-t · · Score: 1

    Maybe it's just me, but when I hear a term like base memory, what comes to mind is how much ram the device actually has for runtime applications to use, not flash ram,which I would equate more to permanent or offline storage.

  21. Why worry? by quenda · · Score: 5, Funny

    Apple users are such whiners. If 16GB is not enough, just insert a TF card.

    1. Re:Why worry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...just insert a TF card.

      And for those of us unfamiliar with this mysterious "TF" card, it is another name for a micro SD card.

      Wikipedia

      SanDisk had conceived microSD when its CTO and the CTO of Motorola concluded that current memory cards were too large for mobile phones. The card was originally called T-Flash, but just before product launch, T-Mobile sent a cease-and-desist order to SanDisk claiming that T-Mobile owned the trademark on T-(anything), and the name was changed to TransFlash. TransFlash (sometimes abbreviated TF) and microSD cards are the same; each can be used in devices made for the other.

  22. Memory? by Torp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The iPhone 6 comes with 1 Gb of memory. And has options for 16, 64 and 128 Gb of storage.
    Why does this even get published?

    --
    I apologize for the lack of a signature.
    1. Re:Memory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why does this even get published?

      Because subliminal messages: yada yada yada BUY IPHONE6 yada yada...

    2. Re:Memory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear Mr. Pedant,
      We will be more impressed by your pedantry if you learn the difference between b and B.

      Love,
      Anonymous Coward

    3. Re: Memory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What kind of storage is it? Magnetic? Optical? Oh... Memory.

      Pedant.

    4. Re: Memory? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Pedant.

      Hardly. This is a tech website, not ladies social at church. You can differentiate RAM from storage.

    5. Re:Memory? by BadgerRush · · Score: 1

      The iPhone 6 comes with 1 Gb of RAM memory. And has options for 16, 64 and 128 Gb of non volatile flash memory for storage.

      "Memory" may be a synonym of "RAM memory" for lay people, but this is a tech news site, so lets not forget that flash is a kind of memory.

  23. because half the people with iphones by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    don't need 16Megs. People on slashdot criticize apple for forcing you to buy features you don't need. Now you critize apple for making the base model something not geek worthy. they are offering what their customers need. Chances are the number of songs or photos you want to keep stored on your iphone at any time isn't geoing with time. and that's the majority of the space usage on most people's phones. With icloud and beats streaming that need is going to dramatically shrink as well. The only thing likely to really be a space hog is more tricked out games and things that use the greater pixels of the large phones. But as I said, at the moment it's photos and music that dominate the storage needs and those will be going down not up.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  24. The the me too iphone is a Samsung Clone by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    An expanded memory will be the new wonderful feature of the iPhone 7 that all the world was expecting.

    The iphone was few bragging points and one of them is its slimness is one of them. look at the ugly badly designed protruding camera on the me too iphone to protect the use of this stupid advantage(sic). It uis the same reason they don't have removable batteries.

  25. A more likely explanation by Andy_R · · Score: 1

    People who run out of memory are more likely to upgrade when the next iPhone comes out.

    --
    A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
  26. sure, apple's memory prices are insane, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but why would a 13% price drop in memory result in a device with 100% more memory for the same price ?

  27. Comparing Apples with Apples by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    That's about right. I just checked my iPhone (4s), and in over two years of use, never cleaning anything, I've barely passed 5GB. By far the biggest use of space is recorded videos, followed by photos, then several big apps.

    And it is not a good comparison. Photos and Videos take up more space on a phone because the cameras now are higher resolution, even though they are still tiny compared to the opposition, and Apps are growing exponentially I have several Apps that are GBs. I know Apple does not have as many Apps as Android, but I would find it astonishing if it were not the same.

  28. Becuse it is small by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    The iPhone 6 comes with 1 Gb of memory. And has options for 16, 64 and 128 Gb of storage.
    Why does this even get published?

    Because 16GB it is considered useless with todays ever growing Application, Photo and Video sizes...and ironically OS Sizes. Even. National newspapers are discussing it http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci...

    1. Re:Becuse it is small by stillpixel · · Score: 1

      My wife has a 16GB iPhone 5s.

      I upgraded her to iOS8 yesterday and she had 6GB of available space at that time. She hardly ever syncs her phone to clear off photos or video, and typically she streams music via Pandora or XM apps. Seems that 16GB is enough for her and probably a lot of 'regular users' like her.

      I'm sure Apple produced the new versions with storage options that reflect what the public has been buying.

      YMMV

    2. Re:Becuse it is small by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Yes, and would increasing it 13 percent really make a difference? I would say at one point, when you have such a small amount it does not really matter if it is doubled it is still too small for your entire data storage needs, so better to use than money somewhere else.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    3. Re:Becuse it is small by mccotter · · Score: 1

      The parent is calling out the distinction between memory and capacity / storage.

    4. Re:Becuse it is small by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The parent is calling out the distinction between memory and capacity / storage.

      ...while failing to understand the distinction between gigabits (Gb) and gigabytes (GB).

    5. Re:Becuse it is small by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My wife has a 16GB iPhone 5s.

      I upgraded her to iOS8 yesterday and she had 6GB of available space at that time. She hardly ever syncs her phone to clear off photos or video, and typically she streams music via Pandora or XM apps. Seems that 16GB is enough for her and probably a lot of 'regular users' like her.

      I'm sure Apple produced the new versions with storage options that reflect what the public has been buying.

      YMMV

      How to send email with attachments? I was told if I get an iphone, I won't be able to send stuff the way I usually do (not sure if this guy knows what he was talking about). For example, that I can't create a simple email and attach both a pdf document and a .tar.gz archive to send to someone. Something I regularly do, I'm required to send via email. Is this true, should I avoid the iphone? Or was I talking to an idiot.

    6. Re:Becuse it is small by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      You might have to do it from within the application in question, but yes you can send attachments. As in: there are apps that act as generic storage containers on the phone (you still have to use iTunes to add or remove files) where you can put .pdf's and .tar.gz's, and you can "send" them as email attachments. Within the mail app itself, you seem to be limited to photos or videos.

  29. Memory confused with storage on Slashdot? by ehiris · · Score: 2

    I'm waiting for the Slashdot story about how obviously no one will ever need more than 640k of memory ever.

    I do want to rant out about iPhone 6 memory though. 1GB is ridiculously low. They claim it was a choice to reduce battery use.
    Using the gopro with 240 fps on the gopro app on a Galaxy S4 is a nightmare and I envision that it will be the same on the iPhone. Not quite sure how they plan on getting good performance even for in-phone features.

    1. Re:Memory confused with storage on Slashdot? by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      Using the gopro with 240 fps on the gopro app on a Galaxy S4 is a nightmare and I envision that it will be the same on the iPhone.

      Seems to be okay to me.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  30. It's a marketing decision, you twits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) A lot of people are happy enough with 16Gb of storage on their phone. If you think that's stingy look at some of the lesser Android phones which have as little as 2Gb on-board storage, and don't have a microSD card slot. You'll be surprised that plenty of phone users don't download or install a multitude of crap on their phones - and that includes Android and Windows phone users.

    2) A push to use iCloud if the user is so inclined to store large files.

    3) Pay a little more and get the 64Gb model, 48Gb more than the 16Gb model. 64Gb model caters to the 'don't mind paying a little more' folks.

    4) And the 128Gb model appeals to the select few Apple zealots and those who hoard stuff on their phone. They have high disposable income and are willing to splash the cash.

    The Apple iPhone is still the most coherent experience around when it comes to hardware and software, and that alone justifies Apple charging a premium. Brand loyalty comes as a consequence of that, not being loyal just for the sake of it. The software and hardware engineering is all done in-house, it's a tight knit ship.

    As for Android, you'll have to make sure that Qualcomm plays nice with your hardware setup and the various Android skins don't mess up the experience.

  31. MEMORY OR STORAGE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't tell which you are referring to...... memory being the amount of RAM or actual data storage. It sounds like you are talking about storage, but you call it memory.... big difference...

  32. Marketing by RiscIt · · Score: 1

    The 16GB model exists solely to make the 64GB model look like a better value. This is a marketing decision, nothing more.

  33. $199? Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Best Buy sells the iPhone 5s 64GB Cell Phone for Verizon Wireless for $299. Go figure.

  34. More beer! by edxwelch · · Score: 1

    The explaination is quite simple: more beer!
    If you buy the 16GB instead of the 64GB you have and extra $100 left over to spend on beer!

  35. correction by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    "allows Apple to afford the new features THAT NOBODY WANTS, like NFC and biometrics."

  36. Tax by WilliamJozef · · Score: 1

    For as far as I know, in some countries (especially inside the EU) there is a TAX on all devices more than X-gb.

  37. Not technology....but people. by Rick+in+China · · Score: 1

    The bottom line isn't about what is cheaper and what can be put in - it's the users.

    When I ordered my wife's new phone, I asked how much memory she wanted. She didn't know - said her current one is 64, so at least 64. I said hold on, wait:

    Went home, checked her phone, said, "You realize with all the apps, photos, videos, etc..you've only breached 5gigs on your phone, right?"

    Many users simply *do not need the capacity*. Just because many of us are geeks, install a ton of stuff, and store a lot of media, doesn't mean most people do. Many people use their phones _as phones_ and enjoy the simple features of photo/videos on demand on occasion, reasonable security, being able to video chat, etc...and have a good UI to work with. They don't *need* huge storage. A reason why 16 gig models are often the best selling isn't because everyone utilizes cloud storage - but because they simply DO NOT NEED that much storage, and just want the built in features.

    Think: Customer centric. It'd do many of the previous posters some good -- calling yourself an IT genius does nothing if your technology doesn't serve real people.

  38. maybe 16Gb is enough by drolli · · Score: 1

    maybe 16Gb is enough for the real current use cases for the average iphone user?

    Apple has been pretty good in identifying the users needs and limiting what they put in the phones.

    Which was the case for the iphone 1, where everybody wondered about UMTS. As a matter of fact, iphones are not meant to be "general puprose computers", and they suck ehen used as such. They are perfectly balanced media players.

    1. Re:maybe 16Gb is enough by drolli · · Score: 1

      Side remark: my mobile storage in my andoid devices is 16Gb since quite some time (beginning of 2011), although i use sd card to expand it (mainly backup).

  39. Why you're being scammed by koan · · Score: 2

    https://www.samsung.com/global...

    SD card for storage up to 128 GB, 4K video, etc.

    When you buy an iPhone 6 you're reaching backwards.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  40. Oh one other thing by koan · · Score: 1

    Why do we still call it a phone? It's a biometric tracking device with GPS, audio and video capabilities.

    Cow goes mooooooooooooooo

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  41. iPhone users don't care... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    iPhone users don't care about facts. If you confront them with any notion of the device being inferior to anything else including older versions of itself[especially older versions of itself] they will become defensive and even more irrational about it.

  42. 5 dollars by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 1

    It will cost Apple 5 dollars or less on a phone that will cost over 500 dollars (without a contract) in the store to upgrade it to 32G. It's not a matter of physical space in the phone because they have 64G and 128G models as well. This is purely so they will sell more 64G phones to people that think 16G isn't enough.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
    1. Re:5 dollars by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      If 10 million people choose the 16G phone and the incremental cost is $5/phone to take it to 64GB (which I don't believe but won't debate), that's $50M that Apple didn't need to spend to satisfy those customers.

      But it does make it all the more sweet to overcharge those that want 64GB for the difference.

  43. Edge cases by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    I think it might be the case of 'normal user' vs 'power user' in deciding to only offer 16GB and 64GB phones. You have 'most' people who are like Sarten-X and 16GB is 'plenty'.

    Then there's power users like you who will use more than the base amount. Now considering this population of people who want more local storage, how many are going to be satisfied with a 32GB model if a 64GB version is being offered for 'only' $50* more? After all, you already 'know' that you're going to bust 16GB, which means your phone will be half full.

    It's entirely possible that Apple noticed a 'hockey stick' effect in it's sales - lots and lots and lots of 16GB models, lots of 64GB models, but the 32GB model was selling the least. So why have it? Odds are the 32GB users will grumble a bit and buy the 64GB model anyways.

    *It seems like it'd be pretty standard: $199 for 16GB, $249 for 32GB, $299@64.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
    1. Re:Edge cases by the_B0fh · · Score: 2

      I think you got your logic backwards. Apple's pricing for iPhones has always been in $100 increments from base.

      The fact that they removed the 32GB and made the next increment 64GB represents an increase in value to the end user.

      iPhone 5S, 16GB - $649
      iPhone 5S, 32GB - $749
      iPhone 5S, 64GB - $849

      Now compare iPhone 6:
      iPhone 6, 16GB - $649
      iPhone 6, 64GB - $749
      iPhone 6, 128GB - $849

      What 32GB users grumbling?!?!

    2. Re:Edge cases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...

      What 32GB users grumbling?!?!

      Maybe not the 32GB users but the 16GB definitely should be. And as I understand it there are plenty more 16GB then 32GB users...

    3. Re:Edge cases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah! I see what you did there! You included the portion of the price subsidized by a surcharge in the plan for service! Darn foreigners always pointing at the real cost and not ignoring hidden subsidies!

      Oh yeah, I'm the sort of person who notices how much I would otherwise be paying in subsidy and thus have carefully avoided it. I got on T-Mobile in 2008, because I could pay less and already had a capable GSM smartphone. I'm glad I'm not the only one, though I fear not too many people will mod you up for including the subsidy. I'm actually rather surprised it is that small... (I'm wondering if there is additional subsidy in required plan extras)

    4. Re:Edge cases by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      What subsidy?! This is the full price for an unlocked iPhone.

    5. Re:Edge cases by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      The article itself lists subsidized prices for the smart phones, which is why he's quoting $649 for a 16GB module, and I pulled $199 from the article.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    6. Re:Edge cases by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      Its the difference in SD storage prices that's alarming, i can buy 16GB SD card for about £10, 32GB for £15, 64GB for £20

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    7. Re: Edge cases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't get it! The 16gb should have been dropped and 32gb for 199. The iphone 6 is a different phone and you don't have to be a power user to go through 16gb. I was at the store to look at the new phone. I notice the Apple office programs that they started giving free on the 5s was not loaded on the display 16gb iphone 6. The programs are still standard though. Why they did this..., no room if they want to show how gaming apps would look like. There will be some very unhappy users within the first year of using this phone with only 16gb.

    8. Re:Edge cases by Elbart · · Score: 1

      THERE IS NO SUBSIDY! You're just paying the full price over the span of two years. It's a loan.

    9. Re:Edge cases by Elbart · · Score: 1

      It's not alarming for the shareholders.

    10. Re: Edge cases by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      Except that office is (by my definition) a power user. Probably over half of all phones sold (iphones included) are used
      by people who use it primarily as a phone, might install 5-6 apps in the life of the phone (if they even know how to install an app),
      will occasionally use the GPS, take a few photos, and never use 16G of storage.

      Apple is pretty much saying that if you want to record videos, store your entire mp3 collection, or install dozens of apps then get the upgrade.

  44. Who cares about MicroSD on a phone? by sjbe · · Score: 1

    All of my Android phones include the ability to add a MicroSD card.

    Great! Sounds like you are a satisfied customer of Android phones.

    I don't care how much memory is on the phone, my data (pictures etc) doesn't reside there

    Fair enough. I don't personally care to store my photos etc on an SD card but to each their own. I'd rather sync my stuff wirelessly to a remote drive and not worry about storing my stuff on a modern day floppy disk. If you want to go old school that's fine but don't presume the rest of us want to follow your lead.

    Apple's continued refusal to add a MicroSD slot is just more of their way of ripping off their customers.

    So because Apple provides an extremely popular product but doesn't provide the exact product you want they are "ripping people off"? Curious and rather condescending logic. I'm pretty confident that most people could not care less about the presence or absence of a MicroSD card slot. It adds to the cost, adds to the bulk, adds to the complexity, is one more layer of unnecessary complexity and in most cases wouldn't get used much if at all. Personally I'd rather the space be taken up with additional battery if anything because that is FAR more useful to me.

    1. Re:Who cares about MicroSD on a phone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sync my stuff wirelessly to a remote drive and not worry about storing my stuff on a modern day floppy disk

      So a modern day mainframe rather than a modern day floppy disk?

      There's nothing wrong with the latter approach. SD cards are far more reliable than old floppy disks, you can transfer GBs of data in seconds (swap the card) which you can't even over 4G/802.11ac, and syncing data is going to always be less reliable than having a good local copy.

      Calling it a floppy disk is an overgeneralisation that ignores its advantages while doing it an injustice. You might as well say the built in flash memory is a modern day hard disk. You're using it anyway.

    2. Re: Who cares about MicroSD on a phone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, calling it a floppy disk is just another Apple hipster trying to belittle anything that isn't whatever's being marketed heavily. You know, never mind the whole not actually owning anything you bought, and having your stuff accessible by the NSA. That's not important I guess...

    3. Re:Who cares about MicroSD on a phone? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. I don't personally care to store my photos etc on an SD card but to each their own. I'd rather sync my stuff wirelessly to a remote drive and not worry about storing my stuff on a modern day floppy disk. If you want to go old school that's fine but don't presume the rest of us want to follow your lead.

      Isn't that exactly what you're doing though, except your sending it to someone elses modern day floppy disk where it has increased risk of all kinds of things.

      Also " It adds to the cost, adds to the bulk, adds to the complexity, is one more layer of unnecessary complexity and in most cases wouldn't get used much if at all"? C'mon now. Adds to the cost? Most droids have one and practically every one is cheaper than an iphones, Adds to bulk? Seriously? unnecessary complexity? Now your just trying to make it sound like they're doing you a favour locking down your storage, but don't forget you need to keep double what you need free to do anything.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    4. Re:Who cares about MicroSD on a phone? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Also " It adds to the cost, adds to the bulk, adds to the complexity, is one more layer of unnecessary complexity and in most cases wouldn't get used much if at all"? C'mon now. Adds to the cost? Most droids have one and practically every one is cheaper than an iphones, Adds to bulk? Seriously? unnecessary complexity? Now your just trying to make it sound like they're doing you a favour locking down your storage, but don't forget you need to keep double what you need free to do anything.

      Yes, it adds to cost - a slot is a mechanical device prone to failure and users are not the most gentle of handlers for those things. It's generally why most devices limit access to the SD slot by making it damn inconvenient to get at, rather than the convenience of being able to swap them in and out as desired.

      In fact, the reason for this is obvious - the complexity of managing that SD card! If you put apps on an SD card and then swap them, things get confusing, fast.

      And then you need file managers to ensure that you can move stuff between cards and internal storage, and apps that generate data also have to have options to select storage. All that just adds to complexity for the user who probably wants to take a photo, and now has to deal with the reality that they picked the wrong storage media and now has to manage that problem.

      A single storage device simplifies things a lot - the user just does what they do.

      It also adds to bulk because you have to engineer the case around it - there are many design rules and limits to what you can do - how close the slot can be to an edge, material interference issues, etc. Even though an microSD card is barely 1mm high, the footprint around it adds at least another millimeter due to material constraints and tolerance issues. Add in rubber covers for them and it's another assembly step, more bulk as the cover needs to be recessed, etc. (and if you wonder why some phones just have piss-poor covers, it's not an easy job).

    5. Re:Who cares about MicroSD on a phone? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      You can't say adding to the cost is an issue when idevices are considerably more expensive than a load of other devices which do have one. It's a thing so it obviously has a cost, but the cost would be negligible and wouldn't affect the end price.

      Seeing as you don't have one this is how it works. You put in the biggest SD card you have. Music, videos photos etc all get saved to that. All your apps install to the phone. You don't get the option to install to SD off the store and all the phones are at least 8/16gb anyway and you don't need the double space thing. You can probably do it but that's an advanced user thing. No one has a bunch of sd cards with a few apps on this one, some songs on that one constantly rotating one. You use it to cheaply expand the storage so you can use it as music/video player. If you're happy steaming everything all the time then more power to you but personally I'm not and if I don't have to carry a separate mp3 player then I'm happy

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  45. The downside of SD cards by sjbe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Then add a microSD slot with support for 64GB memory slot.

    You seem to think that a microSD card is an unambiguously positive feature. It is not. You seem to understand the upside but let me lay out the downsides:

    1) It adds bulk to the phone for a feature that most customers do not care about and will not use
    2) It adds to the cost of the product for design, manufacturing, warranty, and support (again for a feature few will actually use)
    3) It reduces the reliability of the device by a small but statistically significant amount. When you are selling these in the millions that adds up to substantial expense.
    4) Adding the microSD card comes at the expense of other features that could occupy that space such as additional battery capacity.
    5) It is a vector for dust and debris to enter the phone (see point 3 above)
    6) It requires supporting third party hardware that may have compatibility issues
    7) SD cards come in a variety of speeds and people will inevitably buy SD cards that are not fast, incompatible or have other performance issues
    8) It complicates the software on the device and almost certainly will result in bugs.
    9) The functionality can be replicated in other ways that may (and in fact are) preferable to other people such as wirelessly syncing data to other devices.
    10) SD cards basically are modern day floppy disks. Do we *really* need to go back to those?

    I can keep going. If you want a microSD card on your phone because that is critical to you then there are plenty of excellent options available to you, particularly among Android phones. Pick one and stop trying to tell everyone that they are stupid because they don't care to do things just like you would.

    1. Re: The downside of SD cards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Floppies allowed transferring and backup of files. They were great!

      I think the no external storage policy is to protect iTunes and prevent piracy. I've bypassed iTunes with a file manager app and VLC. Ironically, I think the reliance on iTunes hinders Apple's concept of the "post- PC era".

    2. Re:The downside of SD cards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just listing the negatives of the tech doesn't go a long way to helping discussion. I will agree that some of your points are valid, but some I disagree with.

      Point 1, could use a source for reference. If people didn't use the feature they wouldn't add it to phones.

      Points, 2 and 3 are just restating the same or similar problem differently, but otherwise valid.

      Point 4, is valid, but in most cases they do other stupid stuff with the saved space. Case in point for poor use of space, in both the Iphone 6/Galaxy s5 the camera is sticking out, but they didn't bump the back out to make it flat and add more battery life or other things. (personal opinion on this)

      Some of your points can be counted out via good design. Points 5, 6, 7, and 8 can all be worked out in the design phase. Most companies do a poor job of this, it isn't a problem with the tech, just how it gets implemented.

      As for point 9, no matter how good your wireless is if you need quick access to a ton of storage, having it on hand or having the free space on hand is very useful. Not everyone has access to good backup storage options or internet connections at all times. We live in a world where its very easy to forget that fact.

      I don't agree with point 10, storage is storage, wither it is removable or not doesn't mean it needs bashing. One could argue that everything should be on the cloud or networked and we ditch the local storage option. This isn't always a good idea as you are more likely to loose access or control of the data due to connection problems or outside interference.

      I view the microSD slot as a compromise to adding more internal storage. The cost per unit these days has to be pretty low once the design phase is over. It allows the customers to choose if they feel it's worth paying for the extra storage space to meet their needs.

    3. Re:The downside of SD cards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're thesis that few will use the microSD slot is simply incorrect, as demonstrated by all the noise it creates in reviews. android users used to having one simply won't go back to the bad old days without one. great strategy for gaining market share apple.

      and you didn't mention the biggest reason that microSD adds a few dollars to the cost: the SD specification mandates that the file system used will be FAT32 and exFAT for over 32gb. Both those mean paying Microsoft for use of their patents, especially exFAT.
      In cheap chineese phones you'll often see them refered to as TF cards not SD. Same hardware but you can reformat as ext4 without tiggering the patent shakedown. many phones are advertised as supporting up to 32gb sd cards when actually they support more, just not the exFAT kernel modules. so put a larger one in and reformat to an open filesystem and you've exceeded pubic specs.

      it has been estimated that HALF the manufacturing cost of a smart phone go to paying patent royalties. that's where we are today, and it stinks. some of those will be legitimate radio technology patents, but the rest like rounded edges and long filenames in FAT? farce.

    4. Re:The downside of SD cards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are fucking whack. Samsung and other phones have microsdxc card slots for primary storage, our phones are thinner than iPhones by a huge amount, which doesn't have a slot at all. And each person I know uses their slot. I myself have a Kingston 128GB microsdxc inserted to supplement the internal 16GB.

      Microsdxc is basically like a hard drive that is upgradeable for peoples cellphones. Apple is stupid ass for not having a slot themselves.

    5. Re:The downside of SD cards by fluffynuts · · Score: 1

      You seem to think that a microSD slot is an unambiguously bad feature. You seem to have a list of downsides which are quite flimsy:

      1) I replaced the sim slot card on my old S1 the other day (by myself, because it's actually not that difficult to do and cheap to do as well) because it had been abused and broken -- no longer reading a sim. The SAME BOARD hosted the microSD slot. It's not really a bulk issue then, is it? It's a tiny 0.5x(square dimensions of sd card) mm cubed "bulk".
      2) It was on the same board. I bet it must have added around 0.5c cost.
      3) The sd card slot didn't die -- the sim card slot did. Reliability of the sim slot seems to be more pertinent.
      4) No-one is going to try to wedge battery in there. Not at the space it takes. Not in the place it's at. A good place to put more battery would be where that stupid fingerprint scanner is or where the NFC chip is since contactless payment is a giant fail and I've yet to see a truly innovative use for NFC. I certainly don't miss it when I swap out my S3 battery for a higher-capacity one which has dropped the NFC chip. But that is my preference, of course.
      5) Depends on the model -- all of the Samsung phones I've seen (s1,s2,s3,s4, note2) have the sd card slot behind the back cover, Pretty sure the HTCs I've had contact with were the same, but I could be wrong as I didn't deal with them that long. Indeed, I don't know offhand of any modern phones which have the slot exposed like they used to, though I'm sure some exist. The point is, they don't have to.
      6) The majority of Apple's devices are "third party hardware". Again, issues with sim card slot, not sd card slot. That same phone had an issue with the main board earlier on (replaced under warrantee) -- but never with the sd card slot. Odd hey?
      7) True, consumers tend to choose the cheapest. Though most who are savvy enough to buy a card, shop around for one which says "fast". Or they ask a friend, like they did when they were buying other technical stuff.
      8) How so? If you have a *nix-style filesystem (as do Androids and I'm pretty sure so do iPhones), then the card is mounted in somewhere into another folder. Meaning that if nothing is mounted, the folder is just a folder on the original filesystem. How is that any more complicated than any other folder on the filesystem? And if it's mounted, the fact that it is is transparent to anything casually observing the fs.
      9) Preference is a fair point, but not a downside. If you prefer smaller storage and wireless sync, go ahead. Unless you're in a really first-world area though, storage of larger files becomes an issue you have to face as you can't just stream everything all the time. So it's valid to have a preference for more storage and, beyond that, the ability to expand that storage as requirements are raised, in accordance with available finances.
      10) Only in the same way that USB drives, SSDs, DVDs... indeed *all* storage media are "modern day floppy disks". In the way that they are all means for storing data with variable amounts of portability. I think we do need storage media for our data, but I could be way out on a limb here. Behind the cloud is some kind of storage. Also it's quite rare to find people popping their sd cards in and out of their devices on a regular basis, so the "floppy" analogy is a bit flawed on that point and immediate access to the card is also not a priority.

      I'm particularly amused that you instruct the prior poster to "stop trying to tell everyone that they are stupid because they don't care to do things just like you would" after having basically done just that. Some people want storage. Some people prefer wireless sync. It's all about preference, but you've simultaneously told another poster that their preference is stupid and that they shouldn't tell anyone else that same message.

      On one point we can agree though: that poster should probably get out of the Apple camp and find a device where the makers are more interested in the needs of the user than in serving their own agendas a

    6. Re:The downside of SD cards by robi5 · · Score: 1

      Double counting of benefits is common in PR and gets automatically filtered by the spam detector of the brain, but seeing it in a technical discussion is novel.

      You seem to understand the upside but let me lay out the downsides:

      1) It adds bulk to the phone for a feature that most customers do not care about and will not use

      ...

      4) Adding the microSD card comes at the expense of other features that could occupy that space such as additional battery capacity.

    7. Re:The downside of SD cards by aquacrayfish · · Score: 1

      1) I'm not a design expert, so maybe this is wrong, but there's already a Lightning adapter, so it likely doesn't add much thickness, if at all. And considering the screen size increase was a conscious design choice, I doubt it mucked with the form factor either. 1b) Frankly I've never understood this race to the bottom when it comes to these devices. It's like the end goal is to remove *all* ports and forcing users to wirelessly sync everything. Which is great if you like spending battery power for every conceivable function. 2) Manufacturer expense, and the cost of ports is insignificant. And if you're going to convince me a company as large and profitable as Apple can't absorb the cost of a microUSB port, well, I'm in a parallel universe. If you're going to spend I don't know how many millions designing a custom adapter, Lightning, you don't get to complain about expense of using industry standard ports. 3) Adding a port does reduce reliability, but adding *anything* does. If you don't use that feature, no matter what it is, then odds are as close to zero as possible that you'll notice (and there are a bunch of features on every phone which some people will *never* use). I have NFC on my phone. It might not work, I don't know, I've never activated it. It doesn't change at all how I feel about the device. Nonetheless I bet many people find it very useful. 4) True, but, again, that holds for anything you put in the phone. Do we have someone that's looked at the layout of the device and verifies that there's no room comfortably for a port? 5) So is the Lightning adapter and headphone jack, but your basic point is valid. 6) If Apple can't reliably write a microUSB driver I don't want anything running their software. Sorry, that's *really* bad excuse, especially considering they can easily control what they'd allow to work inside their device. 7) This is a breakdown of your previous point. I still think it's asinine. 8) See #7. 9) True, so I agree. Let's take a poll and see what features customers really want. Let's rank them all and then we can start make sure the most sought after features are in the device. Maybe this particular port wouldn't make it, I don't know. That's definitely a possibility, but we do we know for sure, for example, cloud syncing would make it? 10) About the only point I agree with you on to a certain degree. If you do not value hard accessible backups or extended storage then this will have no value for you. For people that cannot or do not want to rely on cloud storage/accessibility, this is the only option for additional storage. Or, are we going to get into an argument that X should be enough memory for everyone?

    8. Re:The downside of SD cards by aquacrayfish · · Score: 1

      (Apologies for the lack of line breaks - I'm on autopilot this morning). Fixed:

      1) I'm not a design expert, so maybe this is wrong, but there's already a Lightning adapter, so it likely doesn't add much thickness, if at all. And considering the screen size increase was a conscious design choice, I doubt it mucked with the form factor either.
      1b) Frankly I've never understood this race to the bottom when it comes to these devices. It's like the end goal is to remove *all* ports and forcing users to wirelessly sync everything. Which is great if you like spending battery power for every conceivable function.
      2) Manufacturer expense, and the cost of ports is insignificant. And if you're going to convince me a company as large and profitable as Apple can't absorb the cost of a microUSB port, well, I'm in a parallel universe. If you're going to spend I don't know how many millions designing a custom adapter, Lightning, you don't get to complain about expense of using industry standard ports.
      3) Adding a port does reduce reliability, but adding *anything* does. If you don't use that feature, no matter what it is, then odds are as close to zero as possible that you'll notice (and there are a bunch of features on every phone which some people will *never* use). I have NFC on my phone. It might not work, I don't know, I've never activated it. It doesn't change at all how I feel about the device. Nonetheless I bet many people find it very useful.
      4) True, but, again, that holds for anything you put in the phone. Do we have someone that's looked at the layout of the device and verifies that there's no room comfortably for a port?
      5) So is the Lightning adapter and headphone jack, but your basic point is valid.
      6) If Apple can't reliably write a microUSB driver I don't want anything running their software. Sorry, that's *really* bad excuse, especially considering they can easily control what they'd allow to work inside their device.
      7) This is a breakdown of your previous point. I still think it's asinine.
      8) See #7.
      9) True, so I agree. Let's take a poll and see what features customers really want. Let's rank them all and then we can start make sure the most sought after features are in the device. Maybe this particular port wouldn't make it, I don't know. That's definitely a possibility, but we do we know for sure, for example, cloud syncing would make it?
      10) About the only point I agree with you on to a certain degree. If you do not value hard accessible backups or extended storage then this will have no value for you. For people that cannot or do not want to rely on cloud storage/accessibility, this is the only option for additional storage. Or, are we going to get into an argument that X should be enough memory for everyone?

    9. Re:The downside of SD cards by markass530 · · Score: 1

      Did you get raped by a MicroSD Card in college or something? That\s a pretty ridic amount of hate for a popular feature

  46. Perfectly adequate for many folks by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Because 16GB it is considered useless with todays ever growing Application, Photo and Video sizes...and ironically OS Sizes.

    Maybe among the slashdot crowd but that's not even remotely true among the General Public. I'm pretty sure Apple and other device makers have a pretty accurate idea how much space actually gets used on most devices. Furthermore they have options available for those who actually do need more storage space.

    National newspapers are discussing it

    They also spend a lot of time discussing vital matters such as the latest escapades of the Kardashian family. Do you have a point?

    1. Re:Perfectly adequate for many folks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After reading this article thread I have lost another point of faith in slashdot commenters.

      Memory and Storage are DIFFERENT things. The title of the article specifically says MEMORY, which would indicate it's talking about the 1GB of MEMORY. Instead it's about the STORAGE capacity.

      This is what Torp pointed out, and all three of you ran the ball in the completely opposite direction.

  47. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  48. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  49. Please don't add more memory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please keep the base model at a low memory amount. While there may be some people that max out their RAM, I myself use just about nothing. I use mostly the standard apps and a few extra's but even with the base model I have gigs of memory to spare.

    There just isn't any content that I wish to store locally. So please, keep the base model modest. I care much more about saving a few dollars than getting more memory that won't be used anyway.

  50. Apples to Oranges by sjbe · · Score: 1

    In an age where 16 GB is available as RAM on many desktops and laptops, it's stupid to sell/buy a computer with only 16 GB persistent storage.

    If that is all people actually need then why it it stupid? I'm pretty sure Apple and other smartphone makers have a much more accurate idea of how much storage actually gets used than you do.

    The iPhone is just an underpowered palm computer with touch interface instead of keyboard/mouse of a laptop.

    I dispute your framing of this issue. iPhones and other smartphones are hardly "underpowered". In fact they are incredibly powerful especially given the engineering challenges in play including battery life, heat, size and budget limitations. If you think these issues are trivial then by all means dazzle us with your brilliance and make a better product.

    Is the portability premium so high, or the case so shiny, that we have to pay 2 times the cost of a powerful laptop while getting computing power/memory of a 5 year old laptop?

    Short answer? Yes. Long answer? You are comparing apples to oranges. The heat, power, size and performance requirements of those two devices are wildly different. Do you really want a cooling fan in your cell phone? Because heat is a HUGE problem and speed = heat. Given the size of battery that is in a cell phone you simply don't have the power budget to crank up the performance to that of a current laptop.

  51. Heat, power and size budgets by sjbe · · Score: 1

    The iPhone 6 isn't close to what you had on a 5 year laptop.

    Could you stick that 5 year old laptop in a shirt pocket? I didn't think so. Why do you insist on comparing devices with wildly different heat, power and size budgets as if they are somehow the same thing?

    1. Re:Heat, power and size budgets by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Why do you insist on comparing devices with wildly different heat, power and size budgets as if they are somehow the same thing?

      Because that was the point in question. Take it up with GP.

  52. Duh. Follow the money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Using 16 GB chips means they could have ordered a massive amount of those chips back then (assuming these are the same chips as before), thereby possibly being able to get significant discounts with the manufacturers considering the order volume.

    Additionally, if and when prices drop, the profit margin increases.

    Last but not least, more consumers will be willing to get an entry-level iPhone because it has enough space for basic use and is cheap enough for them to afford it while still allowing Apple to reap enough profit from the cheapest model.

    There are probably many more reasons 16 GB is perfect for Apple, and most will revolve around money, I guess.

  53. Profit Margins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The cost for designing and main an iPhone is allegedly around $250. Their profit margin is over 50%. They could afford to fit in slightly larger flash modules and still be ungodly profitable. Hell, there are Android phones with more RAM, storage, and screen space for a similar price. Keeping the base model with limited storage may be an inducement to buy next year's model.

    All companies want high profit margins. At least no one is forced to buy Apple phones. (Consumers are usually forced to buy overly expensive cell or internet access instead. Though MVNOs help with cell prices. )

  54. Great. Now even Slashdot adds to the confusion bet by jevansturner · · Score: 1

    I admit, the distinction is blurred with solid-state storage, but one of this article's keywords is "RAM" - which is not related to the article's contents at all. That's confusing because my main complaint with the new iPhone is that it only has 1GB RAM, the same as the iPhone 5. The article title made me think it was going to address *that*.

  55. Why not put on a sd slot ? by bobjr94 · · Score: 1

    O yes, I forgot it's Apple. They can charge $100 for each 16gb of additional storage. Silly Andriod users like myself just go buy a 64GB mirco sd card for $39.

  56. Could we cite the Real(tm) prices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of claiming the iPhone 6 has two flavors costing $199 or $299, I wish authors of articles would publish the Real(tm) prices. Mainly these lock you in to a carrier for 2 years (minimum $10/month subsidy to phone cost) and commit you to having a data plan and other extras that could add on $30/month or more. By contrast a few years back I bought a cheap Android phone for $120 and I pay $35/month for cell service total. With all the required extras these two iPhones almost certainly cost a minimum of $700 and quite possibly as much as $1300 (not including basic cell service).

  57. Floppy disks sucked by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Floppies allowed transferring and backup of files. They were great!

    First off floppies were NOT "great". They were necessary but were obsolete at least 15 years before we finally were rid of them. The floppy is dead and we are better off for it. Second, there are lots of ways to transfer and backup files, not the least of which is through a wireless network. These are available any user of iDevices so I'm puzzled why anyone would really want to deal with the headache and extra expense of a postage stamp sized ersatz floppy disk.

    I think the no external storage policy is to protect iTunes and prevent piracy.

    A nonsensical argument because you can transfer the files off the iDevice in a variety of ways.

    Ironically, I think the reliance on iTunes hinders Apple's concept of the "post- PC era".

    This we agree on. iTunes is important strategically to Apple but it's been stretched WAY beyond what it ever should have been asked to do. Fortunately I don't have to deal with it directly very often these days.

  58. Storage not Memory by MrEdofCourse · · Score: 2

    The title says Memory, but they're talking about Storage.

    The answer is that a lot of people use less than 16GB of storage. The more interesting question is why the 32GB doesn't exist.

    I think it's because people either don't use much storage at all, like my mom or girlfriend who just use the iPhone for email, Safari, Twitter, Words with Friends, Facebook, and streaming music. For them, 16GB is more than enough.

    Once you start collecting music, photos, videos and such, 32GB is not nearly enough, so 64GB kicks in. While 32GB would be enough for those in between casual users and media collectors... say those that just take a lot of pictures, but nothing else, the numbers of these people are too small to support a 32GB offering in the line up and Apple is better off bumping these people up to 64GB.

  59. TF card reader by tepples · · Score: 1

    I think the TF card reader for Lightning devices can only be used to download photos, not anything else. And it appears to be only for iPad; iPhone compatibility is unconfirmed.

  60. The M in EEPROM by tepples · · Score: 1

    BTW, please stop calling flash as "Memory" (in the title) because memory is often confused with RAM.

    Flash memory is a form of EEPROM, or electrically erasable programmable read-only memory.

    1. Re:The M in EEPROM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really think it would make for more readily understandable summaries if Compact Discs were also referred to as just 'Memory'?

  61. Iphone 6 plus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isnt this obvius? They have to have something to add to the updated Iphone 6 model, when they upgrade it in 12 months time.

    The new and much improved Iphone will boast 32 GB of storage and, a new software feature, like hand gesture steering of apps (its revolutionary...)

  62. flash sizes .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For some time Apple and other companies have restricted storage amount, and year after year lowered production costs while keeping the price of the device the same. 128GB of flash actually costs $50 dollars today, 64GB costs $25, and 32GB $12, and 16GB $6 dollars.

    The first iPhone from 2007/2008 had 8GB by itself. Over the years they kept the base model at 8GB, and then slowly moved to 16GB. Till last year these companies were still pushing 8GB to 16GB as the base amount, despite the price dropping several times over the years.

    There is a game of price fixing going on with these devices. They are profitable to sell at $199, no different from an iPod Touch with the same specs, but they are claiming to sell them for $600-$899.. The cost of manufacuring is less than $200..

    It is possible because competition is restricted by the ways cellphone companies sell the devices with a cell service plan in the United States , effectively preventing most companies from entering the market with off brand and knock off devices , keeping the cost of premium devices very high in favor of profits. It requires an agreement between Apple, Samsung, Nokia, HTC, etc, to keep the msrp at $600+.. No company will go against it because the price fixing is profitable, allowing $200 devices to be sold 3-6x market value.

    They are in effect charging people $200 dollars alone for an upgrade from 16GB flash which costs $6, to 128GB that costs $42 dollars.. They charge $100 for the $19 upgrade to 64GB .

    I am glad they at least moved to 64GB and 128GB because before they were charging this same arm and a leg for 32GB and 64GB.. I myself bought a 128GB SSD for $60 bucks in 2012! I bought a 256GB for $140! This was 2012, prices are even lower today..

    Basically they were charging $200 dollars for a $30 upgrade back in 2012. That is pure profit..

    Thanks for the opportunity to line your investors pockets, Apple!

    BTW iPhone 6 is not even an upgrade from iPhone 5s. Its like a 2011 Samsung or HTC being rebranded Apple in 2014.. Same size screen, same amount of cores, and all that. Yet selling at a high price like its high end shit, when it clearly isn't anymore. Lmfao..

    obamasweapon.com

  63. Its about the cost of the base model on contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing more nothing less...apple wanted a higher priced entry level model at 249...carriers wanted 199.. The only place available to trim was memory.. This is the result

  64. ... because companies supply phones to employees . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And buy the cheapest/base model that gets them into the ballpark ...

  65. No the article is not about RAM by Zappy · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one who at first red "base memory" as RAM and would prefer the term storage to memory when it is used to described persistent storage?

  66. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  67. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  68. Why care about this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just think iTunes, apple tie in, .. and then get some open source non tie-in android

  69. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  70. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  71. i6 by brunnegd · · Score: 1

    Sounds,like those trading up to the i6 are being sucker punched.

  72. iphone6 memory by mihir4health · · Score: 1

    I really don't understand apple"s conservative features.. Why not to make the device open for memory, connection etc.. It would be more easier for users.

  73. More memory will cost more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    16 GB is sufficient memory for iPhone. Adding more memory will cost more. mobile application development

  74. Re:$199? Wow by John+Jamieson · · Score: 1

    Does anyone other than me get irritated by the description of the 16GB version being described as a $199 phone?

    That is like saying your SUV is a $300 vehicle, because that was the down payment.

  75. Processing Speed by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    You missed one crucial one. Processing speed. I would dismiss most, other than possibly #1, not everyone uses all features, but then again you could say the exact same thing about a host of other features that most people do not use either.

    From my experience, I have a Galaxy S3. When I was trying to decide from going from my Apple 3S, to either the new Apple 5 or the Galaxy S3, the SD card was one of the deciding features. I got a 64GB SD card off Amazon for about 50$. I dumped about 40GB of music on it.

    One of the things I have noticed, is that once you have it on there, it is difficult to use. The file system is slow. Now that could be that the software that runs the file system wasn't built for that kind of volume, or it could be that the processor just doesn't have the guts to really parse that much information very well. Then again as you say in #7 it could be the card with performance issues. However it being a SanDisk of decent quality, that it would probably have to be inherent, should that be the case.

    Anyway with the Galaxy, it is actually inside the phone, so if you don't use it you may not even know about it, no dust, etc. and likely negligible cost considering what goes into making and marketing these things. Anyway I like having the choice, and it is obvious that Apple has been playing the no media game for some time to force you to use their services and/or upgrade to more expensive devices, which is one of the things that also made me move away from Apple.

    Anyway mine works, I am happy with it, and I think it is insulting at this point to not give consumers choice. Then again, consumers do have a choice to go with something else, which I exercised.

    As you say however, it is probably a truism that on any device, most users don't use half the features anyway, so the lowest common denominator is what you design for. However that is a good way to stagnate and not innovate over time. Which is probably why you see all those TV commercials from Windows and Samsung making fun of the Apple 6 and how behind the times it is. Apple can probably afford to cost on its brand name for awhile, however a lack of innovation may be their eventual downfall.

  76. Re:The downside of SD cards.. turned around. by thesupraman · · Score: 1

    You may think that allowing 3rd party apps is positive feature, It is not.You seem to understand the upside but let me lay out the downsides:

    1) It adds bulk to the phone for a feature that most customers do not care about and will not use
    2) It adds to the cost of the product for design, manufacturing, warranty, and support (again for a feature few will actually use)
    3) It reduces the reliability of the device by a small but statistically significant amount. When you are selling these in the millions that adds up to substantial expense.
    4) Adding the 3rd party apps features comes at the expense of other features that could occupy that space such as additional battery capacity.
    5) It is a vector for Viruses and Malware to enter the phone (see point 3 above)
    6) It requires supporting third party software that may have compatibility issues
    7) 3rd party softwarecomes in a variety of speeds and people will inevitably buy software that are not fast, incompatible or have other performance issues
    8) It complicates the software on the device and almost certainly will result in bugs.

    Most of your disadvantages are amazingly tenuous at best, and easily miss-applied to all sorts of other features.
    In the end Apple profits by people wanting to upgrade their phones as soon as possible - expansion capability reduces that.
    9) The functionality can be replicated in other ways that may (and in fact are) preferable to other people such as wirelessly syncing data to other devices.
    10) SD cards basically are modern day floppy disks. Do we *really* need to go back to those?

  77. Storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bought the 128gb iphone but actually there is only 114gb available!!!! Where is the missing 14gb? My thought is that from that 14gb missing, Apple makes the 16 gb iPhone lol !!! I am pissed !!