GNOME 3.14 Released

An anonymous reader writes "GNOME 3.14 was released today and it includes some interesting changes such as re-worked default theme, multi-touch gestures for both the system and applications, and new animations. Information including details on all the new features can be found here."

Comments

Commands lines

[TechyImmigrant]

Will I still have to dig through three layers of hard to find graphicy things to get to a command line in the default configuration so I can change the runlevel to a non graphical startup?

Re:Commands lines

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting from the the 3.14 demo ISO...

[someone@localhost ~]$ cat /etc/issue
GNOME release 3.14
Kernel \r on an \m (\l)

[someone@localhost ~]$ uname -a
Linux localhost 3.16.2-301.fc21.x86_64 #1 SMP Thu Sep 11 12:45:29 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

Steps to obtain a terminal:
1.) Move the mouse to the upper-left corner
2.) Click the grid-looking thingy on the side panel
3.) Click the tooltip-free graphicy looking "X-GNOME-U..." thing
4.) Click the terminal

So three layers and two graphicy looking things.

Re:Commands lines

[rasmusbr]

What about SUPER t, e, r, ENTER?

Re:Commands lines

[jafac]

press superkey.
type "terminal"
press enter.

Keyboard-free.

Re:Commands lines

[iroll]

OR, you could:

1) move mouse to upper left corner
2) click the thingy
3) type "ter"
4) hit enter

You can even skip 1 and 2 by pushing your windows (or whatever you want to call it) button, which acts like the upper corner thingy.

Re:Commands lines

[Blaskowicz]

If you're going to "change the runlevel to a non graphical startup", you probably know already to hit ctrl-alt-f1 to switch to a VT console, or maybe alt-f2 (then launch xterm) as somewhat of a standard in older gnome and other desktop environments?
That'd be easier than finding the terminal in Mac OS X.
By the way, I once had trouble finding the terminal in Unity. I don't know what the executable's name is. But xterm is always there, so I could type "xterm" somewhere and have it launched.

Re:Commands lines

[Lefty2446]

That has nothing whatsoever to do with Gnome and everything to do with your DISTRO.

Also most (all) distro's have a single user mode that runs graphics free, login to that and configure to your hearts content.

Your comment seems to be fishing for a +5 Insightful but you're -1 Troll.

Re:Commands lines

[retchdog]

on OS X it's just cmd-space to bring up the spotlight, and then you start typing "terminal" until it auto-completes, which is probably after "ter" (or even "te" unless you use textedit often). spotlight is awesome.

Re:Commands lines

[Lefty2446]

... I could type "xterm" somewhere and have it launched.

... or just "term"

Re:Commands lines

[Blaskowicz]

but my terminal says :

No command 'term' found, did you mean:
  Command 'aterm' from package 'aterm' (universe)
  Command 'aterm' from package 'aterm-ml' (universe)
  Command 'bterm' from package 'bogl-bterm' (main)
  Command 'terd' from package 'tcm' (universe)
  Command 'kterm' from package 'kterm' (universe)
  Command 'xterm' from package 'xterm' (main)
  Command 'ferm' from package 'ferm' (universe)
  Command 'pterm' from package 'pterm' (universe)
  Command 'qterm' from package 'qterm' (universe)
  Command 'qterm' from package 'torque-client-x11' (universe)
  Command 'qterm' from package 'torque-client' (universe)
term: command not found

If I'm in an environment I'm not familiar with (perhaps I never used it at all) I will expect that alt-f2 on *nix or win+r on Windows will give me a "run box" that works at least with raw executable names, but maybe not more than that. So on a random *nix desktop (but maybe not twm or any random weird stuff) I'll hit alf-f2 and then xterm, on Windows I'll hit win+r and then cmd. So I could e.g. shut down Windows 8 the old way without trying to figure out the GUI way.

Re:Commands lines

[Anonymous Coward]

4 keys too many

ctrl alt t

Re:Commands lines

[chuckinator]

No. You have to recite pi to 100 decimal places.

Re:Commands lines

[retchdog]

isn't it wonderful to have such freedom of choice?!

Re:Commands lines

[camperdave]

I'm waiting for Gnome Tau myself. It makes a lot more sense.

Re:Commands lines

[epyT-R]

It's so easy to use, no wonder it's number 1! You just point....and click! No wait..that's not it! damn!

Re:Commands lines

[viperidaenz]

Or press the Windows key and start typing "cmd"
Does that make Windows more awesome than OS X? It's one less key press.

Re:Commands lines

[Undead Waffle]

And for your convenience gnome 3 removed the partial matches from the alt + f2 window. So much more elegant without all those pesky icons showing up. Also, good luck remembering what the the true name of the calculator is!

Re:Commands lines

[Sri Ramkrishna]

What's the point of changing the runlvel to 3 on a gnome demo iso?

Re:Commands lines

[Gazzonyx]

[...]

You can even skip 1 and 2 by pushing your windows (or whatever you want to call it) button, which acts like the upper corner thingy.

The "Windows" key is called the "meta key" on all platforms that I'm aware of.

"Now you know, and knowing is half the battle." -- Sgt. Slaughter (Sorry, but that GI Joe quote was too tempting)

Re:Commands lines

[DrXym]

Why bother installing the dist at all if you don't like what it does?

Re:Commands lines

[rioki]

I have not used Gnome for a LONG while, but did CTRL+F2 die?

Re:Commands lines

[buchner.johannes]

I like it too

Re: Commands lines

[Syncroswitch]

Less awesome. It may take fewer keystrokes, but cmd is not an adequate shell compared to OS X's terminal. Besides, my desktop gives me yakuke with zsh just by pressing the menu key.

Re:Commands lines

[Guybrush_T]

Ctrl-alt-T is actually pretty hard on fingers. I personnally set the most used shortcuts to Ctrl-Alt-A (Browser) and Ctrl-Alt-Q (Terminal) which I find the most comfortable for my right hand.

Re:Commands lines

[Guybrush_T]

My LEFT hand, of course :-)

Re:Commands lines

[gbjbaanb]

I think you meant "GUI free" there.

Q. What's the fastest way to open the terminal program using the GNOME GUI?

A. Not use the GUI.

Re:Commands lines

[Curunir_wolf]

press superkey. type "terminal" press enter.

Keyboard-free.

My keyboards don't have those (used to be) OS-specific keys on them.

Yes, they're still around and yes, they are still very popular.

Re:Commands lines

[chuckinator]

Golden!

Re:Commands lines

[nine-times]

You just don't get it. You can't expect him to use an obscure text-based interface to run programs. He wants a simple, easy to use graphical interface that's purely mouse driven to accomplish all of his tasks. But he's a power user, so he doesn't want any of that graphical stuff, he just wants easy access to the terminal.

Re:Commands lines

[nine-times]

According to the previous logic, that's still 2 keys too many. I think Anonymous Coward wants every keyboard to have a "Terminal" key that does nothing but launches a terminal window.

Re:Commands lines

[meza]

Or you just use the "super key" instead of alt-f2 and get your icons and partial name search features back. You also don't have to stretch your fingers that far.

Re:Commands lines

[gfxguy]

How many people are actually going to want it?

I use the terminal every day... so I open the search, find the terminal I want... AND THEN PIN IT TO THE SIDE BAR, because it's something I use a lot. If I don't use it a lot, it doesn't need to be that easy to get to.

Re:Commands lines

[gfxguy]

No, you find it once and pin it to the side bar for one click access. I'm not understanding all the brain dead responses - you find it using the thing that lets you find anything, which might take a few extra moments, but it's nice because it's generic; then when you find something you will use a lot, pin it to the side bar for one click access. I don't get why people enjoy complaining about stuff like this.

Re:Commands lines

[gfxguy]

I disagree... I'm not a huge Unity fan, but the search tool is very simple and generic way to find ANYTHING that's installed very simply, then you can pin it to the sidebar or put a link on your desktop if it's something you use a lot.

Re:Commands lines

[TechyImmigrant]

Because usually the 'text mode' distribution doesn't work on my hardware.

So install the 'standard' one, I lean to Fedora. plug in the monitor and keyboard long enough to do the install, set the IP, turn off the GUI and allow SSH login. Then I can withdraw from the server closet and manage it from the sofa.

Re:Commands lines

[TechyImmigrant]

The point being that you do it only once, from the default configuration that goes to some lengths to hide the terminal. I think I install a new server about once a year on average. Just long enough for the details of whatever GUI is in vogue to change enough to be bloody annoying when I try to turn it off.

You can imagine my joy when I found that one year, systemd had come along and borked inittab. Now I have to google some obscure soft linking of long filename files way down deep in a file hierarchy to change the runlevel. Next year systemd will have finally been defeated and replaced with something else. Come back inittab, all it forgiven.

Re:Commands lines

[TechyImmigrant]

My Happy Hacking keyboard doesn't have a meta, super or windows key.

But the control key is in the right place and that is all that matters.

Re:Commands lines

[TechyImmigrant]

But they give those programs stupid, non obvious names. A quick look in the VNC I have running shows the terminal window is called 'Konsole'. It's probably called 'Wetfish' or 'artichoke' or 'pandacar' in other variants of GUIs. At least Apple called theirs 'Terminal'.

Re: Commands lines

[TechyImmigrant]

fvwm please.

Re:Commands lines

[retchdog]

admittedly, this usage doesn't really show how impressive spotlight is, so read the last sentence as an auxiliary statement, not a conclusion. :)

but, yes, spotlight is by far the best indexing/search tool i've used on any platform.

Re:Commands lines

[ThePhilips]

I disagree... I'm not a huge Unity fan, but the search tool is very simple and generic way to find ANYTHING that's installed very simply, then you can pin it to the sidebar or put a link on your desktop if it's something you use a lot.

It is good for finding. But not a replacement for the Alt-F2 "Run" dialog.

Every time on my old Ubuntu 12.02 I did press Super, typed "gvim" and pressed Enter, every damn time, it was something else launched instead. Namely, it was always staring the first application displayed.

Because the "proper" sequence is:press Super, typed "gvim", wait ~1 second for search results to appear and only then pressed Enter.

Now, on 14.04, I have switched to Xubuntu and I have my "Run" dialog back. (It was initially misconfigured and taking few seconds to appear, but after googling and disabling "dbus something" it started to work as expected. (Isn't it funny that to make stuff "just work", one often has to disable the "new and better" stuff? Dbus my ass.))

Re:Commands lines

[gfxguy]

Ok, I'm using Unity... I click on the search, type "term," and Terminal comes up... as does UXTerm, and Xterm. "Terminal" is actually gnome-terminal. I did not have to remember the name - the search is smarter than you think. I type "calc" and get calculator... and LibreOffice Calc. I type "disk" when I don't feel like manually entering the commands to mount a partition (or forget how). I get "disks," which is what I'm looking for, as well as disk usage calculator and startup disk creator. Nothing unusual to remember.

Re:Commands lines

[TechyImmigrant]

Agreed. My primary bitching is about the default state of the gnome screen when you install a system. There isn't anywhere to type. There isn't anything to click on. You have to know arcane things to get it to go away.

I don't get that with KDE, XFCE, FVWM or anything else I've used on and off over the past 30 years.

Re:Commands lines

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the Meta key does not exist on most modern keyboards, Alt is different and existed on many machines with the Meta-key as well. Sun's workstations had them and that's the only place I've used a keyboard with a meta key, but they were quite common on UNIX systems.

Re: Commands lines

[TechyImmigrant]

>What kind of an admin are you?
The best kind: Grumpy.

Good luck

[wgrzemski]

Well, good luck Gnome. I've left you when opening terminal took more time than finding a bottle opener and opening a bottle of beer. But good luck nonetheless...

Re:Good luck

[drinkypoo]

The complaint is not that it's hard to find. It's that it takes forever to launch. It's a valid complaint, because it does that. I could open a terminal faster in 1992

Re:Good luck

[Sri Ramkrishna]

I bet I could open it faster than fvwm or twm. GNOME 3.14 is even faster now than 3.12 when it comes to doing those overview searches.

Re:Good luck

[epyT-R]

searching a path is still a lot faster, and, typically, application icons refer to the full path of the executable anyway. Isn't the point of guis to avoid typing? What's the point of your pretty gui if people have to type into it all the time in order to accomplish remedial tasks? Search does not make up for inflexible, unintuitive guis.

Re:Good luck

[mwvdlee]

Oh noes, Gnome is losing the ever important "So alcoholic they have always have a beer and bottle opener within seconds reach" market.

If you're such a slow typist, perhaps a terminal is not for you.

Re:Good luck

[drinkypoo]

I bet I could open it faster than fvwm or twm

I bet you couldn't. You don't even know what we're talking about.

GNOME 3.14 is even faster now than 3.12 when it comes to doing those overview searches.

One more time, this is not about finding the icon. Please try to keep up, or butt out as you are not advancing the conversation. This is about how long it takes for the terminal app to launch, not about how long it takes you to find the button. And frankly, if you can't find xterm in the context menu, then you're an asshole. And double-frankly, if you don't pin it to the taskbar or launch bar or whatever GNOME has now, you're a double asshole.

Re:Good luck

[drinkypoo]

It has a time-of-the-day-and-application-name bar. No pinning to it.

Well, fuck it sideways. GNOME has truly gone to total shit, which is why I haven't used it in years. Can you still copy .desktop files to a desktop?

Not cool enough

[Billly Gates]

It looks soo old and dated with shadows and 3rd effects like lines and colors and text smaller than 72 pixels.

I want my flat non color all white interface. I want to go to the coffee hipster stop with my tablet with just shades of gray or pastel colors with no lines separatin elements. My art professors and chicken will drool at this as this is the ultimate consumption is for servers

Re:Not cool enough

[Hognoxious]

But that has black text. For the modern UX-approved look the text should be very light grey, as should all the icons.

Contrast is so utilitarian. Ugly, ugly!

Good one

[Gocho]

PI?

Re:Good one

[iggymanz]

no, cowpie (ie meadow muffin, pasture patty)

Re:Good one

[unixisc]

So this UI should go on the Raspberry Pi

Re:Good one

[Immerman]

My first thought as well. I was dissapointed, the pi release comes only once in a product's lifespan and not one single reference on the release page. Of course I didn't watch the video, maybe they slipped something in there, but I can't help feeling that Gnome has abandoned it's geeky roots.

Re:Good one

[n6kuy]

Sometimes 3.14 is just the number 3.14, and not a reference to the ratio of a circle's curcumference to diameter...

Useless Elements and Padding.

[enter to exit]

There's still an inordinate amount of padding on everything. It maks my screen feel like 800x600.

On top of that, gnome have an activity bar and each application a window decoration bar and then a menu bar. When running a maximized program, the bars are placed directly under each other and good chunk of the upper screen is wasted.

The activity bar still does nothing and the window decoration bar typically has a single close button. It's a gigantic waste of space.

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[RightwingNutjob]

How about the status bar in nautilus replaced by a popover text bar like in Firefox that makes it impossible to read both the name and modification time of the bottom-most file in list view by default? Whole thing must have been designed by blind monkeys.

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[armanox]

Depends on the App. I know some applications have the integration bits where it merges the menu bar with the top bar in GNOME so that it takes up less space. The theming could be a little smaller I agree....

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[Undead Waffle]

Or the fact that the nautilus window doesn't have a minimize button. Because who minimizes things?

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[maweki]

Are you sure oft this is true or is the past just always brighter? http://blogs.gnome.org/aday/20...

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[maweki]

Minimizing in GNOME would be useless. Have you even looked at the ideas behind it? You switch applications via the activities button. There you see all windows and can choose. And you can send the current window to the back with the middle mouse button to the window title. Why would you ever want to minimize anything without the task bar as the only means of context switching? Even alt-tab shows you window previews.

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[POPE Mad Mitch]

Because -clutter-. I never maximise any windows, thats such a huge waste of screen space, even on a smaller laptop screen i still have some shells open in the background with logs and chat sessions etc in them. the main working window takes maybe 70% of the screen, and everything not in use right now, like email clients, browser, etc are minimised so they dont produce visual clutter.

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[strikethree]

Minimizing in GNOME would be useless. Have you even looked at the ideas behind it?

I am sure the ideas behind it are absolutely awesome. All I can say is, "Thank you for determining my workflow for me. I had no idea at all that I was doing everything all wrong. I will immediately begin unlearning all of the habits that I have learned over the decades so that I can become slightly more efficient according to someone elses metrics. I am VERY VERY glad that there is no way to alter the workflow because then I might be tempted to stay with my old bad habits while the rest of the world moved on without me! I am sure they would all miss me... so again, thank you."

I just don't know what I would do without Microsoft, Gnome, and Apple all forcing me to change my workflow and habits to be better. God. Can you imagine that a looooong loooooong time ago we were all actually forced to use terminals? No GUI at all! I just wished they would make it impossible to use terminals at all anymore so we would never be bothered by such garbage again. I guess Gnome is not as awesome as they thought they were since it is still (technically) possible to fire up a terminal and start, EGAD!, typing. What an archaic concept.

Speaking of which, why doesn't Slashdot just make us record what we want to say and when you go through the comments, you listen to them instead of read them. Reading is so archaic. I am unsure why anyone does it anymore. It is certainly not useful to ME.

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[putaro]

At least with terminals you could arrange them how you like. Ah, the joys of 3 VT100s on your desk.

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[Daniel Hoffmann]

Nautilus? Isn't it called Files now?

Anyway, it sucks beyond belief now, use the Nemo fork of the old Nautilus. It supports SSH, FTP and such (I really hate using scp through the command line).

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[Medievalist]

Ah, the joys of 3 VT100s on your desk.

And if you took the lid off, you could grab the CRT yoke and the cheap varnish holding it to the tube would crack so that you could spin the image on the screen.

That way, you could have two of your three terminals sitting sideways on your desk. Or even upside down!

You couldn't do it with VT52s because the keyboard was attached. VT100s had a cable.

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[chihowa]

I just wished they would make it impossible to use terminals at all anymore so we would never be bothered by such garbage again. I guess Gnome is not as awesome as they thought they were since it is still (technically) possible to fire up a terminal and start, EGAD!, typing. What an archaic concept.

Don't worry. In Gnome 3.swipeup.swipeleft, the terminal will be replaced by a multitouch paint program where you enter all of your commands from an arcane collection of gestures! Four-finger-left, three-finger-pinch, tap for the win!

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[horza]

I have a task bar on my desktop. It's a simple shell extension. I minimise stuff all the time. Nautilus not having a minimise button is one of the only things that drives me nuts.

Phillip.

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[nullchar]

Agreed. Everyone who maximizes all of their windows and must constantly shuffle them in a "deck" or even multiple "decks" (workspaces) are NOT power users.

Whether a single screen laptop or a large three monitor desktop, very rarely should any one window be maximized.

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[JohnFen]

Minimizing in GNOME would be useless. Have you even looked at the ideas behind it?

I have, yes. But I don't see how minimizing would be useless -- it gets the window off the screen without closing it. That's VERY useful. None of the features you describe are adequate replacements for it.

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[Blaskowicz]

I recommend Filezilla to people for that task, it's DE-independant and OS independant too (runs on both Windows and Linux, probably on others).

Nemo is great, I ran some Mate franken-desktop with it ; now Mate's caja got even more similar (as a fork of Nautilus 2.x) so I believe you would find it to be a very decent option, would you be running a Mate desktop.
May I say how I like pcmanfm, too. Though I don't feel like I can easily try the latest version on my current OS.
It seems like all nautilus clones are great, except nautilus itself.

Re:Useless Elements and Padding.

[Daniel Hoffmann]

I have used Filezilla, it is better than nemo for SSHing files around, but I don't have to do that often so nemo is good enough for me. I have used pcmanfm a long time ago, it is pretty good too.

Anyway Nautilus is the poster child for the GNOME philosophy, dumb-down everything until your current userbase hates you.

GNOME list of former features

[CajunArson]

Since this is GNOME, does anybody have a link to the official list of features that have been removed from this version?

Re:GNOME list of former features

[stoploss]

Since this is GNOME, does anybody have a link to the official list of features that have been removed from this version?

The version feature removal list feature has been removed in this version in order to better serve the Gnome users.

All 6 of them that are left.

6 months early?

[Lawrence_Bird]

did nobody think to release it on the proper date or just skip that version number? No wonder so many people hate on Gnome

Re:Better dig my head into the ground.

[Blaskowicz]

Not sure what the new wifi feature really is, but if it can automatically log in to the wifi network instead of you doing it with a browser that's a mildly useful and convenient feature.
For such a feature to be robust there would be a need for the user to set up that automatic login though (e.g. using epiphany-browser). Some will just require username/password (first form entry/second form entry) but others have a "I agree to terms of service" checkbox and some others might be different still.

is evince sandboxed now?

[NotInHere]

Does it at least attempt /a bit/ to protect me from the dangers of the internet?

http://www.mupuf.org/blog/2014...

Release the Gnomes

[NotQuiteReal]

That doesn't sound nearly as intimidating as Release the Kraken! (or even Release the hounds...)

Just sayin...

Re:oh yeah, GNOME3

[Art Challenor]

It's optimized for viewing Slashdot Beta (between the two interfaces you get about 3 words per page).

Re:The hipsters need to go!

[Blaskowicz]

I hate Gnome 3 as much as anyone, but I once used it on a computer which I assume was probably just debian wheezy (when wheezy was still late testing). It seemed decent at showing one or two windows seemingly guessing where I wanted them to be moved to.. Maybe I can't explain myself about it. It seemed very good at managing a handful terminal and browser windows. While not providing something like a taskbar. Kind of an OpenGL accelerated, black-themed Windows 3.1.

It's not a real desktop environment, but if you have a computer with a recent enough GPU and good enough I/O it might be usable if you think of it as a window manager.

Gnome, a fundamental desktop requirement of sorts

[Mister Liberty]

And the first thing I see when clicking the link is "Weather, redesigned"???

So does it work w/....

[unixisc]

....GNU HURD?

3.14 sounds like a pi-in-the-sky release

[Subm]

3.14 sounds like a pi-in-the-sky release.

"Re-worked default theme" sounds like they're just going 'round in circles.

"New animations" are hardly a sine of great progress, 'cos they sound tangential to real progress, which really hertz.

I'll wait for 6.28.

Re:3.14 sounds like a pi-in-the-sky release

[Just Some Guy]

I'll wait for 6.28.

I've thrown in the tau'l.

Re:Broken as always

[viperidaenz]

If only you had some kind of pointing device for your desktop...

Re:Good on you, Linux!

[epyT-R]

Yes, after all, costtarded OS's have excellent track records.

Re:The hipsters need to go!

[Sri Ramkrishna]

Most of the devs are still hte same people who made GNOME 2. There are no 'hipsters'. Let me add this little tidbit: SLED/SLES changed their default DE to GNOME. It's right there in the GNOME press release. You know why? Because more people are using GNOME than KDE. Here is something else, according to some folks within suse, opensuse also has more GNOME 3 users than other DEs, but they decided not to piss anybody off and didn't change the default. GNOME now has a full sweep of all the major distro except Ubuntu. Basically, people are finding that more poeple use GNOME than anything else on at least SLED/SLES and opensuse.

Re:Better dig my head into the ground.

[Sri Ramkrishna]

That's exactly what it is.

Re:Better dig my head into the ground.

[Sri Ramkrishna]

You don't use your mouse, you use your fingers on your touchscreen.. I'm not sure how you mapped 'touchscreen' to mouse gestures?

Let's be honest

[postmortem]

2.14 was way better.

Re:Let's be honest

[kthreadd]

I went back to the /. article from the 2.14 release. Turns out people didn't like that one either. I especially fell for this comment:

Gnome2 was an act of utter contempt against end users, it's still better than KDE but that's not exactly saying much is it? fluxbox, icewm & xfce4 are where it's at.

Yet people use it.

GNOME is the same

[WebCowboy]

"Super" key then type ter and hit enter. Exactly same number of keys and no mouse required.

Recent GNOME 3.xx are actually quite accessible and keyboard friendly. Most haters here hate just to ride on the 'leet bandwagon.

GNOME suffers from the same affliction as systemd and pulse audio before it...lots of prejudice because it was too crappy or weird when they first came out but are much improved over time. Kind of like people who still think Hyundai cars are junk because their 1985 Pony died on the road all the time, but nowadays Hyundai is as good or better than Toyota.

Some people will never like GNOME 3.xx that's OK, just a matter of taste really. Power users obviously frustrated at lack of tweakability and advanced stuff being hidden, But in my experience it is presently the best desktop by far for beginner and casual computer users. Mum and Dad learned their way around it faster than Windows or Mas OS X, seriously!

Re:GNOME is the same

[forsted]

You can use Alt-~ to cycle between windows in an application.

Re:GNOME is the same

[tibit]

Interestingly enough, it's only one keystroke more on a mac: Cmd-Space, ter, Enter.

Re:GNOME is the same

[meza]

Been running Gnome 3 for the past year or so now and I quite like it, but I agree with you on alt-tab issue. I recommend the extention alternatetab which fixes that to work more simple and sane. Before installing alternatetab I avoided alt-tab all together and just used the super-key to get to the activities screen and switch window.

The feature I miss the most now is the ability to rearrange workspaces. Quite often I find my self constantly switching between say workspace 1 and 4, with some other crap on workspace 2 and 3. Then I would like to drag and drop workspace 4 so it becomes the new workspace 2.

Re:GNOME is the same

[backwardMechanic]

Oh you're funny. Pulse still sucks. It took forever to get any sound out of my Thinkpad - pulse just doesn't like it. And streaming audio over bluetooth? Forget it. On my MacBook I just have to click a button and it works.

The last Debian update I ran included systemd. I haven't managed to boot it since - I'm stuck in the recovery shell.

I honestly had a look at this discussion to see if Gnome 3 is finally ready to actually use, and has stopped pissing people off. Clearly not. I'll stick to XFCE. It manages windows, provides a usable environment, and doesn't have strong opinions about how I should work. Fancy that?

Re:GNOME is the same

[TechyImmigrant]

I go the long way around on a mac. Flower-shift-A --> utilities -->terminal.

But that hasn't changed in years. I can't say the same for whatever the latest gui on the lastest linux distro is.

Re:GNOME is the same

[Anonymous Coward]

The "super" key? Is that next to the "any" key?

GNOME suffers from the same affliction as systemd and pulse audio before it...lots of prejudice because it was too crappy or weird when they first came out but are much improved over time.

Then distros should stop including it as the default while it's in its crappy state. At least let the software get to parity with what it's replacing before replacing it. Otherwise you make things harder for the user. That's what pisses them off and causes them to have a poor impression of the product.

Re:Good on you, Linux!

[Daniel Klugh]

Isn't "csh" usually just a link/symlink to tcsh?
(which is what I actually use normally)

Re:obligatory..

[epyT-R]

It's 'do you HAVE...' get it right bungwipe.. huhuhuh

Re:The hipsters need to go!

[epyT-R]

1. argument from authority. Just because redhat is doing it doesn't mean it's the best solution.
2. argument from popularity. Doing what the bonobos do isn't necessarily the best choice just because they make up the majority, especially when they didn't choose at all. They just use what they're given.

what's the bets...

[advocate_one]

that I won't be able to turn this default behaviour off

When it is launched without a document being specified, Evince will also show a useful overview of your recent documents.

everytime a new version of Gnome comes out, you find even more things are forced upon you that you can't change... I got pissed off when the screensaver wouldn't let me change the directory path for my screensaver images that I wanted it to automatically use...

Re:The hipsters need to go!

[Eunuchswear]

Bonobos spend most of their time fucking. Do you have a problem with tbat?

Re:The hipsters need to go!

[epyT-R]

I guess.. I mean today's welfare state is a large negative consequence of too much fucking. The overpopulation of the planet is another, bigger one.

Have they fixed the invisible file mgr borders?

[rjforster]

It's only on the file manager (that I've found) but you can click OUTSIDE the window and still interact with the window. For example if you have two file-managers close to each other with another window below them both and visible in the gap then you can't click the lower window directly even though you can see it and put your mouse over the visible part of it. All you do is focus one or the other of the file manager windows.
You can also hold down the windows key and click outside the file manager window and drag it around the screen just as if you had clicked inside the window (I can't remember if I changed the default key from alt to windows in my settings but the point applies).

Generally I'm OK with Gnome3 (providing you get the right extensions) but these invisible borders are such a fundamental breakage of the basic concept of a graphical windowed user interface.

Re:Have they fixed the invisible file mgr borders?

[kthreadd]

Yes, they have fixed that problem; at least if we're thinking about the same problem.

Re:Broken as always

[kthreadd]

It's certainly made for both desktops and laptops. That's how most people use it, claiming anything else is just ridiculous. I'm sure a lot of people would love to see Gnome running on a tablet, but we're not there yet in terms of hardware.

Re:LOL iPhone...

[kthreadd]

Unfortunately, no.

Re:oh yeah, GNOME3

[kthreadd]

does anyone even use that rubbish? Did they all of a sudden start listening to what users wanted and needed?

Yes. A lot of people use Gnome. Maybe not all of /. readers, but we are hardly representative.

The list of features is quite telling...

[ponos]

The Gnome environment has a direction. One that does not interest me. Things like "multitouch" are clearly not important to me, but all three users using Gnome on their tablets might care. I am even more surprised to see the new "Weather app" up in the list of exciting new features. The hours I spend daily looking at the weather forecast will now be much more pleasurable.

Anyway, I really want to like Gnome but don't see anything that matters to me. Linux Mint and the Cinnamon environment seem more suited to my needs and, I suspect, to the needs of the "typical" linux user. In a parallel universe where Apple fans decide to use Linux, Gnome will be there for them.

Re:The list of features is quite telling...

[olau]

Things like "multitouch" are clearly not important to me, but all three users using Gnome on their tablets might care.

It's not really intended for tablets, AFAIK the primary target is the touch screens you can buy these days and which some laptops come equipped with. Without some help from the desktop environment and applets, the touch aspect of those screens is more or less completely useless. Maybe you don't care, but the people who buy those screens probably do.

Re:The list of features is quite telling...

[DrXym]

Multi touch would allow the OS to do stuff like pinch to zoom, rotate, scrolling and other gestures that have become common. I doubt it says anything one way or another about other forms of input. Quite clearly the prevalent form of input will be mouse and keyboard for a long time to come.

MATE is still far more advanced in usability

[jcdr]

Especially when you have a lot of virtual desktops and a lot of windows. I use a fixed array of 8*6 virtual desktop where I statically organize the multiple projects I work on. Very easy to setup with MATE. Same goal impossible to archive with Gnome because the virtual desktops are organized dynamically. With MATE I can switch very quickly to the virtual desktop I want because there position are fixed and my brain can learn a corresponding map of them. I don't even have to think about how to go to the right virtual desktop, it's so easy that it's almost a reflex. No animation make the switch fast and without visual fatigue.

The whole Gnome3 UI concept look completely ridicule on a 4K screen. It wast all the space so efficiently that it make my new 4K screen look like the old 1080p one. Whit MATE you really enjoy more available space.

Finally a strongly hate the upper corner hook trick that wast time to randomly move all windows out there in a unpredictable position. It broke the static mapping I have in my brain and distract me from my work. On a 4K screen the MATE the top and bottom tiny bars take almost no place and provides direct access to applications menu and windows list without useless animation that broke the actual layout.

I don't need a UI for a smartphone on my desktop as I don't need a UI for a desktop on a smartphone !
Please help MATE to integrate systemd so I can be the default desktop on Debian.

Re: MATE is still far more advanced in usability

[jcdr]

I build Linux embedded systems since 15 years ago, and in each single project there was an specifically developed application to start, monitor, spread events, and stop applications in an dependencies scheduled timing when different events occurs (like electrical signal change, device detection or removal, etc...). Init V design can't be used to do that without a incredibly hard work, and a complete nightmare regarding maintenance.

Systemd solve in an acceptable (and now accepted) way a lot of basic but hard problems on dynamic systems. Yes it is more complex than init V, because it solve problems that init V it completely unable to deal with. The actual big problem is that most users don't understand how complex it is today to maintain a modern distribution where the same users expect that everything is magically dynamic and fast. The crude reality is that init V was simply never designed to be dynamic and fast.

Now systemd is not already perfect and probably need some improvement in some area (like an ACID compliant log for example). But this is an important achievement, so don't ignore it, because it will be everywhere in a few years. And if something really bad will be found to be enough the kill the systemd project, be certain that his replacement project will keep a lot of his features and will still be far more complex than init V.

The init V days are counted since the upstart project proved some of his goals, almost exactly like the static /dev days was counted when devfs proved some of his goals. Finally udev replaced static /dev and devfs. Now systemd is on track to replace init V and upstart.

Re:MATE is still far more advanced in usability

[jcdr]

Lack of systemd integration was the point Debian use to decide witch back from XFCE to Gnome instead of MATE:

https://anonscm.debian.org/cgi...

"Systemd/etc integration: Xfce, Mate, etc are stuck paying catch-up to
ongoing changes in this area. There will be time to hopefully iron these
issues out during the freeze once the tech stack stops changing out from
under them, so this is not a complete blocker for those desktops, but
going by the current status, Gnome is ahead."

I was very surprised by that point that I was not aware of before. I still think that MATE bring a better usable desktop as of the today state of jessie.

Re:MATE is still far more advanced in usability

[somenickname]

I actually use a very similar system of virtual desktops (though, only 3x3 and I map Ctrl-Alt + vi keybinds to navigate between them). XFCE has done a great job of handling this kind of setup for years. As you noted, once you have a static layout of virtual desktops your brain quickly builds up a mapping of the desktops and you intuitively know things like, "I'm looking at application X so that means application Y is to the right and up two screens". No Alt-Tabbing to try to find windows, no mousing over a window list, etc. You just know exactly where the thing you want is in relation to what you are currently looking at. I've actually converted a few people to this kind of setup once they've seen it in action.

Taking it a step further, you might find Qubes OS interesting (https://wiki.qubes-os.org/wiki). It still has some rough edges but, it's the next logical progression in a statically defined matrix of virtual desktops: You can make each virtual desktop actually represent a different virtual *machine*. It ends up being a really nice and secure workflow.

Re:MATE is still far more advanced in usability

[jcdr]

I also use XFCE4 on my main Debian wheezy machine with a 6x7 workspace array because MATE was not available on that release. I have an other test machine with MATE and Gnome on Debian jessie. I did not talked about XFCE4 because I think that MATE is a more promising project, despite XFCE4 having some good original ideas that I would like to see on MATE.

Thanks for the qubes-os link. It certainly a good idea, not only to bound desktop applications, but also services. I hope that this kind of technology will be the default someday. This could enable everyone to securely run there own services and global could contribution without relying on commercial big farms. The future of project like Debian could be in that direction because there will probably never get enough finance to maintain a big farm, but demand for better files spreading, more computer power, and faster community communication with the users will rise in the coming years.

Re: MATE is still far more advanced in usability

[jcdr]

A user has moderated your comment "Flamebait" (-1).
        Re: MATE is still far more advanced in usability
        http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Ouch! I am curious to known: what is so "flambait" in my post ? The only reply to it after 4 days look positive.

Gnome Needs a Rethink

[BrendaEM]

Okay, it was a cool idea to make sometime that works on tablets too, but for a desktop power user Gnome 3 is an utter failure.

Re:Gnome Needs a Rethink

[kthreadd]

Is it a failure, or is it just that you don't like it? A lot of people use Gnome 3 every day on all kinds of desktops and laptops. Yes it's different and if you want Gnome 2 you will have to look at something like Mate or Xfce. But a lot of people use it and like it.

"Multi-touch" tells me all I need to know

[msobkow]

The comment on "multi-touch" tells me all I need to know about this release: it's targetted at touch screens.

Not "normal" desktops.

No wonder Gnome 3 sucks so heinously. It's the Linux version of Windows 8.

Re:"Multi-touch" tells me all I need to know

[DrXym]

Don't be ridiculous. Supporting a multi touch input device says absolutely nothing of what the experience is like for someone using that way or what the experience is like for someone using a mouse and keyboard.

As it happens GNOME 3 is perfectly usable for someone with a mouse and keyboard. It's also discoverable, forgiving, easy to use and simple to learn which are the main goals of it.

Feel free to install Cinnamon or an entirely different desktop if you don't like it.

Re:"Multi-touch" tells me all I need to know

[herranzdiego]

For all the people complaining about GNOME 3.xx design. Do you know the existence of GNOME Classic Mode? You can log into GNOME with an appearance very similar to GNOME 2.x. Check this out: http://worldofgnome.org/gnome-...

Re:"Multi-touch" tells me all I need to know

[NoImNotNineVolt]

Feel free to install Cinnamon

Mod parent up: informative.

Re:"Multi-touch" tells me all I need to know

[DeVilla]

Does it support accelerometer input so the computer can detect it needs to spin down the disks before it hits the wall/sidewalk?

Re:"Multi-touch" tells me all I need to know

[msobkow]

Angry? No. I just think it's a crap UI, so I stick with KDE on Linux boxen.

Re:The hipsters need to go!

[Eunuchswear]

Well, no. Todays welfare state is a large positive consequence of Count Otto von Bismark being one smart fucker.

D'oh!

[Gazzonyx]

Actually, you're very probably correct. I'm honestly too tired to check (I lost a DB cluster last night/this morning and have been dealing with that since yesterday), but you're very probably correct. My head isn't in the game like it usually is. Please excuse the noise. As AC said, The Windows key is "Super", not "Meta".

Re:Better dig my head into the ground.

[Hognoxious]

IOW, they've reinvented NetworkManager/nw-applet?

Citation Needed

[efitton]

GNOME most popular desktop, needs a citation. GNOME marketshare _really_ needs a citation as I am guessing that there is no dominant desktop on Linux at the moment.

I don't care if it is designed by Hipsters or not. Minimize no longer moves a window to the back of alt-tab, a blocker issue. And anyone with a hint of ADHD can't use a desktop with an overview mode. Sequence of flashes is seriously distracting. Closing my two monitor, large tower in order to suspend is also fricking hilarious (albite not a blocker).

Re:Citation Needed

[horza]

I think users tend to slop around from desktop to desktop. I know I have used most of them out there. I really really wish Ubuntu would move to 3.12, let alone 3.14. It's very annoying. Suspend is easy though, simply hold down alt, click power icon then suspend. Works fine on my 2 monitor tower.

With KDE still having usability issues and Unity having spyware, this would have been a great opportunity for Gnome to get market share. Instead you have a choice of installing Slackware and losing that amazing Ubuntu repository, or having the wide range in software but being stuck on buggy 3.10. What a waste.

Phillip.

Re:Citation Needed

[efitton]

As I get older I find I have less desire and time to shop Desktops. KDE 3 was (and probably still is) my preferred Desktop. I followed KDE 4 for quite a while but two years in it was still a huge regression for me. At that point I am done. I'm not going to try every 6 months, I'm going to cut my losses. At this point, I am thinking about trying KDE again. The thought that users will smile about not having something usable for two plus years and then will happily and immediately come back might be a fallacy. However, I have just as much evidence for my point of view as you do. :-) At this point, having been on Windows 7 (because I thought GNOME 2 was too limiting) I will give MATE, Cinnamon and KDE each a short audition and then make my choice for the next few years.

Re:Broken as always

[efitton]

Then why are lusers told to shut the lid to their monitor to suspend? I know that isn't going to work on my workstation.

Re:Broken as always

[kthreadd]

Where does it say that? I'm running it on a laptop and it doesn't say anything about that in the power settings at least.

Re:The hipsters need to go!

[strikethree]

Because more people are using GNOME than KDE. Here is something else, according to some folks within suse, opensuse also has more GNOME 3 users than other DEs

Where are you getting these statistics from? Are you just extrapolating from assumptions like: Will not change the default desktop?

I would be more interested in seeing what the repositories are reporting concerning updates... but even that will not be accurate because sometimes I leave stuff installed for testing purposes... and I am sure others, for their own reasons, leave stuff installed too despite using something else.

For myself, I consider Gnome to be of the same type of evil as SystemD. The developers are utterly infatuated with their own ideas and incapable of understanding that their ideas are just not that good, despite solving some very real problems.

Honestly, I am unsure why I am even commenting. As a former Gnome user, I feel glad that someone wrote some decent software that I could use but I am not forced to use Gnome... so I will do what I will do, and that is not use Gnome now. I am rather angry about SystemD though. THAT is getting foisted upon me whether I like it or not. It is entirely possible that if distros do not fight against SystemD that it may very well kill Linux. SystemD makes Linux as reliable as the toy operating system called Microsoft Windows.

Calculator

[tequila_j]

Have they fixed the calculator?

Re:Calculator

[Blaskowicz]

xcalc is pretty good as a basic calculator, not too ugly and right mix of small but not hiding stuff like 1/x, trig and x^y.

Just turn off dynamic workspaces

[jcupitt65]

I agree the gnome3 dynamic workspaces are annoying, but fortunately there's an option to turn them off. You can turn off the top-left-corner gesture too. I use ctrl-f1 - f8 to switch workspaces, it's nice.

I suppose you could argue that the defaults are not great for experienced users, but most experienced users would expect to have to customise their desktop a bit, I think.

Re:Just turn off dynamic workspaces

[jcdr]

I just tried Gnome 3.12.2 from a freshly updated Debian jessie and no, there is still nothing configurable at all on that desktop. This is the big major difference from MATE and XFCE4 where everything is configurable by just a right click on the widget you want to change. On Gnome 3, even after years of complain, there is still absolutely nothing configurable at all.

So sorry, your claim is false: there is no option to disable dynamic workspaces and there is no option to disable top-left corner gesture. I have found 3 way to start the Preferences application (from the user menu top-right, from the application icon bottom-left, from a right click on the background). None allow to configure what you claim.

And finding an application is still a nightmare. Still the same nonsense of having to go to the top-left activity menu, but warning, be precise because the top-left corner is just a few pixel away. On a 4K display this is just a torture to not hit the top-left corner when you wants to click on the top-left activity menu. Still, the activity menu is in fact not a menu but a vertical bar with few big ugly icons of something I rarely use, not even a web browser.... I have no clue how there chose to display those useless icons. Still have to got to the bottom-left of the screen (from the top-left of the screen, try that on a 4K resolution) to click on the application array. But why ? This array use so big icons that only a few of then are displayed. Might be on purpose, because there are very very few applications on the full array anyway compared of all the application available on the system from the MATE application menu. Still no categories ? I have no clue about how look the icons of the applications I wants and the text is not only ridiculously small but cropped !!!! Yes, on a 4K display will 3840 pixel width, Gnome 3 fail to display the full name of a few applications icons in a row even with a almost unreadable small font !! Such a big failure. Completely useless.

Back to MATE, quickly...

Re:Just turn off dynamic workspaces

[kthreadd]

I just tried Gnome 3.12.2 from a freshly updated Debian jessie and no, there is still nothing configurable at all on that desktop. This is the big major difference from MATE and XFCE4 where everything is configurable by just a right click on the widget you want to change. On Gnome 3, even after years of complain, there is still absolutely nothing configurable at all.

There's actually a lot of things that can be configure, it's just that the UI does not allow it. This will hopefully be improved one day.

So sorry, your claim is false: there is no option to disable dynamic workspaces and there is no option to disable top-left corner gesture. I have found 3 way to start the Preferences application (from the user menu top-right, from the application icon bottom-left, from a right click on the background). None allow to configure what you claim.

Dynamic workspaces can be disabled. GNOME Classic uses this setting by default. You can easily change it with gnome-tweak-tool.

And finding an application is still a nightmare. Still the same nonsense of having to go to the top-left activity menu, but warning, be precise because the top-left corner is just a few pixel away. On a 4K display this is just a torture to not hit the top-left corner when you wants to click on the top-left activity menu.

You don't need to use the mouse at all. Use your super/windows key to bring up the Activities view, then just type what you want and hit return.

Still, the activity menu is in fact not a menu but a vertical bar with few big ugly icons of something I rarely use, not even a web browser.... I have no clue how there chose to display those useless icons.

You can drag and drop any application that you want there.

Still have to got to the bottom-left of the screen (from the top-left of the screen, try that on a 4K resolution) to click on the application array. But why ?

There's a shortcut, super+a will bring up the applications view.

Still no categories ?

No, but you can create folders from the Software application.

I have no clue about how look the icons of the applications I wants and the text is not only ridiculously small but cropped !!!! Yes, on a 4K display will 3840 pixel width, Gnome 3 fail to display the full name of a few applications icons in a row even with a almost unreadable small font !! Such a big failure. Completely useless.

Most of this can be fixed within gnome-tweak-tool. You should check it out.

Re:Just turn off dynamic workspaces

[jcdr]

There's actually a lot of things that can be configure, it's just that the UI does not allow it. This will hopefully be improved one day.

If it's a joke, this is a very bad one. Hell, this is not even a joke but the crude reality of Gnome 3... Users complain got directly into /dev/null !

Dynamic workspaces can be disabled. GNOME Classic uses this setting by default. You can easily change it with gnome-tweak-tool.

So I need to install a magic application to configure ultra basic features of the desktop. I wonder how it was decided to not integrate this application... Why someone will have something to configure ? So why gnome-tweak-tool even exists ?

I changed the dynamic workspace to static workspace. There is only 36 workspace available (I used to have 64 in a 8X8 array some years ago) and Ahhrggg !!! There are all in an single column: completely useless.

You don't need to use the mouse at all. Use your super/windows key to bring up the Activities view, then just type what you want and hit return.

Why will I ever use a mouse on a desktop computer ? Are you serious ? Having a good shortcut will never be a usable workaround for a completely broken UI. And how a newbie will ever learn this shortcut ? Why bringing an UI with animation if at the end the only efficient way to use it is by using keyboard shortcut ?

You can drag and drop any application that you want there.

MATE or XFCE allow far more applications to be dropped anywhere on the panels or desktop. But most important there directly have a very clear and usable application menu with categories: something all newbies understand immediately and take no time to learn.

There's a shortcut, super+a will bring up the applications view.

Again why an UI ? Why a mouse ? How newbie learn that ? It's strange how Gnome 3 is unable to be usable with a mouse compared to all others desktop out there... What for a progress ! Ouch !

No, but you can create folders from the Software application.

Did you know that distribution already do categories for there packages ? Why Gnome don't use that ? Why should I manually do that work while others desktops have it automatically since so many years ? Where is the feature of removing that ?

Most of this can be fixed within gnome-tweak-tool. You should check it out.

I have checked and no. gnome-tweak-tool solve only a few problem I listed here. It allow to add a application menu with categories. Whoow ! I wonder why there have to keep this so advanced feature (sarcasm) in a secret tweak tool if nobody ask for it... Arg! Impossible to drop an application in the panel from this application menu entries. Must be a even more secret feature... A lot of extensions descriptions are so short that there left me wondering what there intended to do. More ridiculous even that short description are sometime cropped by the default width of the gnome-tweak-tool window. I tried the system monitor, and see no visible effect. I tried some others extensions that display something on the top panel and found no way to move them around.

Granted, there is exactly zero feature in the current Gnome 3 that I would like to see in MATE. Gnome lack a lot of features that others desktop have since many many years. And it's not like is Gnome 3 is just born and still need major work. No. Gnome 3 is there since many years too and his team think that he so fine that one of the leading feature of the today release is new animations on open/close windows and button toggle...

I am not a child expecting a new animation in a toy desktop. I need a desktop to do my real work and I don't need animation for that, but a real state of the art desktop like MATE.

Re:Just turn off dynamic workspaces

[Anonymous Coward]

You have to use the Gnome Tweak tool (https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Apps/GnomeTweakTool?action=show&redirect=GnomeTweakTool) to turn off dynamic workspaces. For better or worse, the more advanced customization options are put in this tool instead of Settings.

Re:Just turn off dynamic workspaces

[jcdr]

Two points:

1) Why this tool is not integrated by default ? It's completely against the usability to require to install a separate application to let user configure ultra basic features of his desktop. On XFCE or MATE for example, configuring almost anything on the desktop just require a right click on the widget you want to change. What wrong with a such simple a easy way ? What the benefit to make configuration more difficult ?

2) Static workspace in Gnome 3 is also a complete failure because all workspace are in a single column. Totally unusable.

I have already analysed the Gnome Tweak Tool in this post: http://slashdot.org/comments.p... and, sorry, it'a largely not enough for my needs.

Gnome 3 have 2 big failures:
1) His "innovative" usability schema is broken from the view of a so large user base that XFCE and MATE have gain attention that there will never get if Gnome 2 was not discontinued;
2) Gnome 3 team, even after years of evidence, still completely ignore the reality of the situation.

The most bad decision was to discontinue Gnome 2. All the infrastructure under the Gnome 3 have evolved only for the need of Gnome 3 despite the fact that this evolution of the infrastructure would be also a benefit for Gnome 2. Now MATE is heavy working on bringing a good desktop on a modern infrastructure, something Gnome project should have do from the start. Not only Gnome don't recognize that MATE project is making work that there should have done, but Gnome project still ignore the MATE project when there make infrastructure decision. At some point in time this evolution will inevitably clash if more coordination are not put in place.

Re:The hipsters need to go!

[hawkinspeter]

That depends on whether I'm expected to join in with the fucking of bonobos or not. (I'm not going to say which answer I'd be wanting).

Re:oh yeah, GNOME3

[putaro]

That's my question. I've wound up with it installed plenty of times because it's the default on too many distributions but use?

Window decorations don't suck!

[Theovon]

I've been complaining for years that the default KDE window manager not only looks ugly but also clashes with the rest of the theme. If they made windows look like plasma widgets, then they would look sleek, and they would look like they were designed to fit with the rest of the theme. But KDE devs seem to have no idea what I'm talking about. How can thing go so right in so many ways and then fall apart in one so conspicuous area?

On first glance, the new Gnome window decorations actually look pretty good. Maybe I'll change my mind later, but it looks like someone developed a sense of style.

Re:Window decorations don't suck!

[kthreadd]

Well, Gnome 3 has support for themes. You can change it to something else if you want to.

Re:Window decorations don't suck!

[Blaskowicz]

But many people who made GTK3 themes were alienated by the spec changing at every minor version. I have no idea if the thing is settled now, plus a theme has to support GTK2 apps so what is needed is a combined theme working for two or more versions..
Not sure if that's the only reason but e.g. Linux Mint comes with one single theme. I have not tried to get others.

Re:Window decorations don't suck!

[Blaskowicz]

It's used by the Gimp. Seriously!
Also, major environments : XFCE, Mate, LXDE ; and many major or common applications. Some of them support a choice of GTK2 or Qt, or GTK2 and GTK3.

No need to break stuff.. And the Gnome team owns GTK3, and has shown itself rather hostile to developers. GTK1 is completely dead, but GTK2 will probably stick around just like some other stuff does (motif, Tk, and the kind of stuff that was already ugly in 1989)

I had to stop listening to the video

[TQL]

Guys, I'm going to be totally honest with you here.

I love GNOME, I use two huge screens in a multi-workspace, multi-tasking environment and it suits how I work perfectly. So I really am pleased to see all the hard work going into GNOME.

But if the person on that video is considered to be correctly pronouncing it as 'Guh - NOME', I'm going to have to stop using it out of sheer principle...

Re:Broken as always

[kthreadd]

So Intel controls the Gnome project now? This is news to me.

Re:Broken as always

[efitton]

In forums and bug reports people have asked how to suspend and are always told that the preferred way is to close the lid. See: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/sh... for one example. But GNOME developers have said the primary target is laptops so I guess I should be surprised.

Re:The hipsters need to go!

[tibit]

I know I'm feeding a troll, but systemd is quite likable, and I like it better than launchd. I'm looking into getting rid of launchd on my OS X box and adding a launchd-compatibility layer into systemd so that the rest of the system would be happy in its ignorance about not talking to a real launchd...

Re:Broken as always

[kthreadd]

Ah, now I understand what you mean. Yep, that would be useful. In the mean time this extension might help:
https://extensions.gnome.org/e...

Re:oh yeah, GNOME3

[iggymanz]

I have a couple dozen friends into Linux, none of them use GNOME3 and all think it's garbage. MATE, XFCE4, Cinnamon and some KDE lovers yes....no GNOMERZ

Re:Broken as always

[efitton]

Extensions suck: http://soylentnews.org/comment...

That said, I really dislike a DE that relies on an overview mode as the flashing really aggravates my ADHD. I use minimize to move windows to the back of alt-tab (hey I need to edit a conf file and install another extension), but that is now broken because McCann thought something else looked ugly, so broken by design, a blocker. And I want a file manager that hasn't been neutered. And what I miss most on Linux is Kasbar (the best taskbar ever) and I don't get any taskbar in GNOME. I am not a prospective GNOME user.

Re:Broken as always

[horza]

Why not just click the suspend button under the power icon on the top bar (if you hold down Alt it displays suspend instead of shutdown)? Works for my workstation.

Phillip.

Re:Broken as always

[efitton]

And that Easter Egg qualifies as discoverable how? GNOME developers have repeatedly said that laptops are their focus. I think we should believe them. Then again, they also say that discoverability is important and then you look at bug reports. My issues with GNOME run much farther than this, but I think it appropriately illustrates the narrow vision of GNOME "designers."

Re:Better dig my head into the ground.

[Blaskowicz]

I use NetworkManager - as it doesn't hang or something on that particular computer and looks good enough, I did not rip it out for wicd - and it does automatically connect to a wifi network, but that does not give actual connectivity on a public or semi-public hotspot. There's still the task of opening a web browser page, have it "hijacked" by the hotspot and do whatever is needed there.