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Could Maroney Be Prosecuted For Her Own Hacked Pictures?
Online warnings about the dangers of teen sexting, from sources ranging from the FBI to MTV, frequently warn that even a minor who takes a sexually explicit picture of themselves can be prosecuted for violating child pornography laws.
And these prosecutions really do happen. One Pennsylvania district attorney threatened child pornography charges against two teen girls who posed for a photo in their bras making peace signs, and tried to force them to write a report on why their actions were wrong and "what it means to be a girl in today's society." (With the ACLU's help, the girls' parents sued to stop the D.A. from following through.) A study from the American Academy of Pediatrics found that in teen "sexting" incidents reported to the police, even in cases where the sexting was between two minors and there were no "aggravating" circumstances (abuse or lack of clear consent), police made arrests in 18% of those cases. (The arrest rate was higher in cases involving "aggravating" circumstances or where an adult was involved in the sexting.)
Meanwhile, hundreds of articles have been written about Porn.com being forced to take down the nude pictures of McKayla Maroney, after receiving word from her lawyers that she was underage when the pictures were taken. As far as I can tell, none of the articles about the incident mentioned that, if her lawyers are correct, then Maroney could be theoretically prosecuted for creating, possessing, and distributing child pornography. Of course nobody wants to see that happen, but the elephant in the living room is that before Maroney's photo leak scandal, many teens were arrested for doing essentially the same thing, and more of them will continue to be arrested after the celebrity nude hacking scandal is old news.
That's not to say that Maroney's photos necessarily did constitute child pornography. Nude or topless photos of minors are not necessarily illegal, if they're not sexually explicit; Thora Birch was under 18 for her topless scene in American Beauty. I haven't seen the Maroney photos (honest -- although I'd like to think that whatever she was doing, she was making her not impressed face). Maybe they really were explicit enough to qualify as child pornography. Maybe they weren't, and Maroney's lawyers misunderstood the law and thought that any of her underage nude or topless selfies were automatically child porn. Or maybe her lawyers knew the pictures were not really child porn, but they were bluffing when they demanded that Porn.com take the pictures down. Whatever the case, Maroney's lawyers claimed the pictures were child pornography, and if they're right, the lawyers just criminally implicated their client as well.
If the pictures really were explicit and she sent them to any of her same-age friends, she could also be charged with disseminating obscene material to a minor. Iowa teenager Jorge Canal was convicted on this charge, and his conviction upheld by the Iowa Supreme Court, after his 14-year-old female friend asked him to send him a picture of his erect penis, and he obliged. (Although since he was 18 at the time of sending the picture, there was no child porn charge.) If his defense attorneys tried a defense along the lines of, "My clients actions harmed absolutely no one, and it's the prosecutors who have ruined the lives of not only my client but also his supposed 'victim', by putting them both through a trauma that will hang over them for the rest of their lives," it didn't work.
Many states have attempted to pass laws specifically addressing sexting by and/or to teenagers by reducing the penalty from a felony child pornography charge to something less severe. What all of these laws still have in common, though, is that they retain the option to impose some criminal penalties on teens for sexting even among themselves. The ACLU has opposed such a bill in Pennsylvania on the grounds that even a misdemeanor charge for teen sexting would be too draconian of a punishment.
"The Need for Sexting Law Reform: Appropriate Punishments for Teenage Behaviors", written by Alexandra Kushner, a legal associate at Winston & Strawn LLP, and published in the University of Pennsylvania Journal of Law and Social Change, argues for de-criminalizing consensual sexting among teens. (The paper argues for retaining the option to prosecute cases involving abuse or malicious forwarding of a sexted picture.) Much of the paper is refreshing for the plain language not often found in legal argumentation; discussing the case of a 16-year-old and 17-year-old who faced child pornography charges for taking sexy pictures of each other, Kushner writes, "They should not have been charged at all because they were not harming each other or anyone else by taking and keeping these pictures." This is exactly the right way to frame the issue, but to most legal scholars, sentences like these are considered simply adorable.
For the other side, you can read "A Legal Response Is Necessary for Self-Produced Child Pornography", by law professor Susan Hanley Duncan. I found it less than convincing because much of the paper stresses that sexting can have serious unforeseen consequences for teens, including public humiliation if the pictures are forwarded to their friends. Well, we know that. But that just raises the obvious question: Isn't that punishment enough, and why do we need criminal charges on top of that? Even buying into the stereotype that teens are focused only on the present -- if a teen is not deterred by the humiliating prospect of having her photo forwarded around the entire school, then why would they be deterred by the threat of prosecution, which is less likely, further out in the future, and a potential risk that they might not even be aware of?
(Note that this logic does not apply to students who forwarded sexted images to harass the person appearing in them -- the person forwarding the image usually does not face the short-term threat of public humiliation, which means a legal penalty might be the only deterrent they would care about. That's one argument for retaining the option to prosecute people who forward sexted pictures maliciously.)
Even the FBI, in their "Advice for Young People" regarding sexting, betrays a certain embarrassment over the hypocritical nature of the laws. To a person forwarding an image of someone else, they warn: "You could face child pornography charges, go to jail, and have to register as a sex offender;" but to the person taking the original picture, they say only vaguely that you could "even get in trouble with the law" -- while leaving out the fact that all of the draconian penalties in their list, also apply to the person who takes the picture, under the laws that the FBI enforces.
But unless or until sexting laws are changed, Maroney probably did violate them according to the statements from her own lawyers, which might lead cynics to think that she escaped being charged because of her celebrity status. I think that's unlikely. Recall that "only" 18% of teens who sexted each other were arrested in cases where the incidents were reported to police, so if she had been a non-celebrity, she probably would have gotten off scot-free as well. Whether a teen gets arrested or charged for "sexting," probably depends less on what they actually did, than the luck of the draw as far as which police officer hears the report of the incident, and which prosecutor ultimately has the discretion to decide whether to file charges. (Of course that makes me a cynic too, but I'm the kind who thinks that people see patterns and non-existent reasons for outcomes that are far more random than we'd like to believe.)
Public reaction is another matter. When District Attorney George Skumanick prosecuted those two girls for posing in their bras making peace signs, he may not have had all of the public on his side, but there would have been an absolute tsunami of outrage if he had tried the same thing against a celebrity like Maroney, trying to get her to write an essay about "what it means to be a girl in today's society." I'm sure she would have been not impressed.
Why?
I didn't realize she was under-age when I saw the headline. A few quick Google searches later, and I'd unwittingly accessed what counts as child porn.
Serious, Slashdot editors, this title needs a fix to include a warning, like instantly.
fail.
(if i have to scroll my mouse-wheel more than three times before i hit comments... fail.)
I guess under these standards the papua new guinea indigenous dress would be considered pornography and 'child pornography'.
Real pornography happens within people's heads and minds, not on film or pictures. Government is not authorised to destroy individual freedoms this way, however once you allow the government to take some freedoms away, allow it to take away most of your private property ownership and operation rights, you lose your bodies to the government as well, which is why in many respects, the government sees itself as your owner, where your income belongs to it, your property belongs to it unless it allows you to keep some and where your bodies and your lives belong to it as well.
The TSA agents feeling up your private parts or taking your naked pictures, the prison sentences for narcotics possession or sale, the capital punishment for anything at all really, the wars, the murder of civilians in cases of so called 'collateral damage', the 'civil forfeiture', etc.etc. all of these are indicators of the unauthorised usurped powers that government enjoys and that the individuals lost.
You can't handle the truth.
Just ask Vanessa Hudgens.
Hell, even Perez Hilton posted an alleged picture of Miley's underage crotch. Despite the fact it was fake, it was still technically classified as child porn. The 30-something male who makes a living obsessing over teenage celebrities received no punishment.
Contributor Bennett Haselton
*skip*
Minors have less responsibility for their actions and aren't usually charged with adult crimes.
...when you codify morality.
All of our criminal code in the US with regards to sex crimes needs to be scrapped and rewritten by people from another planet who haven't been influenced by religion and/or tradition.
This is something that has always bothered me. If a teenager is sexting her boyfriend or girlfriend and they happen to get the number number and send a pic to me, I have child porn on my phone. It doesn't matter how it got there. It doesn't matter how fast I delete it. If there ever happens to be any investigation of me for any reason and they check my SMS messages at the phone company, the cops will see it and now they have a reason to investigate every aspect of my life, confiscate every computer I have, and generally fuck me over.
Teenagers sexting is paying with fire and can destroy completely innocent lives.
Yes, I get the inevitable joke "So that's how you're saying that picture got there."
atleast here the the law is that if you take pictures of yourself when you are under 18 and have them there is no problem, the instant you turn 18 and you have kept pictures those pictures they can land you in jail for possession of child porn
If kids could not be prosecuted, some poor, down on the luck, homeless kid will end up taking their own photograph and selling it. Kids commit crimes all the time - sometimes really stupid crimes.
Not saying the laws should not be updated - they should. But it's a lot more complicated than some people think.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
There is no theory, no question, there is precedent. Yes, absolutely she broke a law and unless given special treatment because celebrity, based on precedent, she would be treated and jailed as a paedophile and producer of child pornography.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
...is that you force everyone to follow the letter of the law instead of the intent of the law. One reason why "plain English" laws are better for the populous even though they may be harder for the lawyers and the courts.
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
ABSTRACT
This article argues that our current laws on the topic are counterproductive, because they protect child molesters instead of bringing them to justice, they criminalize a generation of normally-behaving teenagers which diverts valuable police resources from the criminals we should be going after, and they lead to censorship and electronic book burning as well as unacceptable collateral damage to innocent families. Child abuse as such is not condoned by anybody, and this article argues that current laws are counterproductive in preventing and prosecuting it.
In http://falkvinge.net/2012/09/0... The abstract is there because the title of the article will enrage the folks doing the prosecution...
davecb@spamcop.net
I agree with what you say, and was going to write a similar comment. What I'd add to your points is that Justice no longer exists in the US. We have a bunch of rules which have been written to exclude some, and include others and those selective rules are are being selectively enforced.
I can't say that is a new phenomenon, but it is at least more obvious today (perhaps more openly done as well). How many times this year have cops been cleared of all wrong doing after brutally beating and murdering unarmed suspects? How many bank executives have gone to jail for fraud that cause millions of families everything? How many Government officials have been brought up on perjury charges?
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Really?
Because it seems to me that if I can be put on a sex offender registry and/or jailed for up to the rest of my life (possibly really short and painful life) simply for owning a phone or email address to which a picture was sent, or god forbid browsing a porn site and they happen to be in the gallery, then the creation and distribution of said photo better be illegal. It better be very very illegal.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Just like the male underage teenagers who have already been prosecuted and received sentences and had to register as sexual offenders.
"even a minor who takes a sexually explicit picture of themselves can be prosecuted for violating child pornography laws. " Thanks for voting, assholes!
This is my big problem with these types of charges. It is legal for a minor to be naked and have another minor see them (or see themselves). It is legal for a minor to have sex with another minor (assuming consent, etc.). Why then should it be illegal for them to take a picture during this entirely legal act? If it is legal for the person taking the picture to see the act itself and legal for the person viewing the picture to see the actual act (and/or participate in the actual act) why would it be illegal to view a picture of something you can otherwise legally view?
Unfortunately, America is all about making anything it can illegal. If something is a bad idea (which a lot of times this stuff is) that isn't a reason to make it illegal and further punish the people who are already dealing with the consequences of their bad idea.
"Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
You can be convicted for just looking at pictures.
I clicked on a Bennet hassington article. FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
I want to give this question careful consideration, so I'll get back to you after a more extensive examination of the photographs in question.
You are welcome on my lawn.
One law for them, one law for the rest of us.
I've said it before and I'll say it again....Pics or it didn't happen.
Seriously.
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
I masturbated as a minor. Does that mean I'm a child molester?
People should have the right to record their own lives, subject to not infringing on the privacy and other rights of other people.
The right of adults to share the recordings of their lives even if those recordings were made when they were minors and even if they were made by others without the legal consent of the now-adult participant with other adults who wish to view such recordings should generally fall under free speech protection.
That said, there is an argument to be made that under certain circumstances such as a staged rape scene or a scene that involved animals, if the subject of a pornographic photo appears to be a pre-teen or younger minor, regardless of the actual age of the participant, it might be considered legally obscene even if the same photo would not be considered obscene if the participant appeared to be an adult, even if the participant was in fact a minor.
There is also a strong argument that the wide dissemination of such material is bad for society, and as such it may be in the state's interest to prohibit anyone other than the person depicted in the image from making any money off of it and to prohibit the dissemination of such images to minors.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
You can be convicted for just looking at pictures.
I'm assuming you're talking about someone else (e.g.: an adult) looking at the picture a child took of herself. Which would show that person's intent to use as child porn, right? But it wouldn't by itself show the child's intent to create or distribute the image as child port. The OP's point was about "[t]aking pictures of yourself", not looking at pictures. I think the OP was saying that if the person taking the selfie didn't intend for it to be shared, then the act of taking that pic wouldn't be considered as creating child porn.
The point makes sense to me, but I'm not a lawyer (and I live in Canada), so I can't comment on whether American law works like that.
A recursive sig
Can impart wisdom and truth
Call proc signature()
Ohh noez - kiddie pr0n!!!1!!1! Burn the witch, burn the witch, BURN THE WITCH!
The worst laws out there specifically disclaim the necessity of an intent. U.S. child pornography and drug laws are such laws. Possession is sufficient, you don't need any intent, heck, you could be braindead for all the law cares about you.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Maroney's pictures have been described in some detail by people with similar questions as to their legality. They aren't child pornography. The shots are just of her breasts. She isn't simulating sex, she isn't masturbating off-camera (from what you can tell, apparently), I don't think she's even touching her own breasts.
The lawyers just tried to scare people. If I had her pictures, I would share them on principle alone. As it stands, everyone should be writing to the bar association where the lawyers have membership to register and ethics complaint.
As I understand it (and IANAL), child pornography is one area in which mens rea does not apply - the creation, possession, or distribution of images determined to be CP is grounds for conviction, regardless of intent. It's fucked up, but there you go...
Someone below links to an interesting blog that had quite a bit of exposure a while back, discussing this topic and boldly claiming within the next 10 years possessing child porn needs to be legalized. Find the link, and give it a read. It's honestly much more detailed than my summary below.
Two 14 year old teenagers experimenting with sex is not a surprise, is not a shock, and is more often than not completely voluntary and consensual. I won't take the position of cheering them on, or even encouraging those acts, but we all know it happens (probably from first hand experience). I kissed my first girl at a younger age (she was 14 and I was 12) and saw partial nudity. I lost my virginity at 14 with a different 14 year old girlfriend. We didn't have cell phones back then to take pictures, but if we did we'd have probably snapped lots of pictures. Wholly crap man, it was the first time either of us had seen another person intimately.
Seeing a prepubescent child getting raped is another story. That act is disgusting and disturbing, and in my opinion the rapist should be castrated prior to spending life in prison. Actually this is one of few cases where I would actually consider arguing for capital punishment.
The same Laws cover both of those topics equally. If a judge decides to charge one or both teens, their life is ruined from that day forward. Further, possession of child porn by law does not consider mens rea (intent). If you film or photograph a person raping a child, you are guilty of a Federal crime even if your only intent was to provide evidence to police. Knowingly possessing any child pornography (which is a massively broad definition including cartoons) is a Felony, period.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
You can certainly attempt to disagree, but Socrates makes a point when defining "Justice" which is that "Justice" must be consistent. If a law allows one person to do something that another person gets punished for, then the law is unjust. Justice is the ideal that Laws are supposed to maintain, therefor justice does not change.
People have ignored or remained ignorant to Socrates's definition, but nobody has proven him wrong or provided a more accurate definition.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Let's distinguish between "paedophile" and "hebephile" in our laws, please?
"child" vs "young adult"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...
Seriously... a 17yo is distinctly NOT a child. 16yolds in other nations can vote on important matters, and until relatively recently, 16yolds could vote, own property, run a business and were in every way considered an adult in the USA.
Possession is sufficient, you don't need any intent, heck, you could be braindead for all the law cares about you.
So all any 17-year-old - or 12-year-old - can get any his bank in trouble by walking up an ATM machine and *fill-in-the-blank*??? NOT.
I seriously doubt the bank would be prosecuted unless they didn't call the police as soon as they were aware that they had under-aged porn on their security cameras.
Oh, and if your reply is "the cops would arrest the 17 year old" yes, they probably would, so substitute "kid still in single digits living in a state where kids that young can't be prosecuted even in juvenile court" (I'm pretty sure the feds don't charge kids in single digits).
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Mysidia seems to be thinking along the lines of supreme court decisions regarding obscenity. Obscenity is difficult to define and the definition depends on intent - naked pics intended to get the viewer horny vs naked pics in a medical textbook intended to educate. Maroney's lawyers had them removed from a site called porn.com. Porn.com is aptly named - it's a porn site. Naked pictures of an attractive young woman on porn.com are probably there to be used as porn. It's porn.com, after all.
When children are involved, you don't need definitions that are quite as nuanced because you don't have quite the same first amendment issues. There's nto really any valid reason to film kids doing anything sexual, so the law can be more clear-cut. Here's a sample definition from one state:
Sec. 43.25. SEXUAL PERFORMANCE BY A CHILD. (a) In this section:
(1) "Sexual performance" means any performance or part thereof that includes sexual conduct by a child younger than 18 years of age.
(2) "Sexual conduct" means sexual contact, actual or simulated sexual intercourse, deviate sexual intercourse, sexual bestiality, masturbation, sado-masochistic abuse, or lewd exhibition of the genitals, the anus, or any portion of the female breast below the top of the areola.
(3) "Performance" means any play, motion picture, photograph, dance, or other visual representation that can be exhibited before an audience of one or more persons.
Have gnu, will travel.
> I believe it was Ed Meese during the Reagan administration who, when asked how he would define port, answered to the effect of "I can't give you a definition, but I know it when I see it."
That would be Justice Potter Stewart, in 1964:
"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced
within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so.
But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."
In an obscenity case, his opinion was that the first amendment disallowed the state from regulating anything but "hard-core pornography". He said that the movie in question was not hardcore porn, so he did not NEED to define exactly what would be "hard-core pornography". Later cases dd need to try to narrow down the definition, so they did a little bit. The main case, Miller, included an element of "contemporary community standards" in the definition. The government can only ban/restrict stuff that violates community standards at the time, which means Salt Lake can ban stuff that Los Angeles can't - because of the different communities.
We're eating our children.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
you can in many jurisdiction legally marry as a minor; just don't take any pictures afterward.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Technically the lyric is, "Oh, those Russians..."
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
i'm no advocate for child porn, but many famous photographers have taken naked pictures of their kids. hell, my mom probably has a couple of adorable photos of me or my brother taking a bath as a baby -- but that's not PORN. americans are stupid about the naked body, and need to stop twisting everything into some kind of perversion. there's muppet "porn", for chrissakes, and that only hurts what, a bunch of felt and glue? a muppeteer's feelings?
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
shit, kids routinely do questionable shit for no goddamned reason at all. if maroney was selling her pix, that would be a whole different story.
this reminds me, instead of getting busted for prostitution, bring a video camera and make a movie. at that point it makes the john an entrepreneur, and the hooker is the "talent"
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
Taking pictures of yourself does not, on its own, show intent to use them as child pornography.
Well, you're demonstrating the intent to generate pictures that the courts define as child pornography (unless you drop the camera and it accidentally goes off I suppose). Or is CP defined by distribution?
Cf. software licensing where you can take GPL code and fuck it five ways from Sunday but as long as you don't distribute your changes nobody cares.
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
In the German, or the English version? Because I've heard the English version and there's no "dirty" in there. And if it's the German version, he should have quoted that instead of the English lyrics.
Oh God I'm turning into a giant pedantic asshole noooooo
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
Thanks for the proper quote and attribution.
Of course you are correct, but the law and definition are intentionally vague. This allows loopholes and selective prosecution, which is the whole point. The people involved in the Franklin Coverup need loopholes and have the money for attorneys and bribes^W"donations" to ensure they don't go to jail. Those lower stock people living below the upper crust on the other hand, well who said they should have had a cell phone to begin with? (that last bit is sarcasm, just in case it's not obvious enough)
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Utah tried that. It opened the door for the defense to collect statistics from dish/directTV on regional porn viewing habits.
Utah rents more and more perverted porn from the networks then LA. It was a 'Great Moment in Lawyering'!
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Only if the baby is engaged in "sexual conduct", to include the lewd exhibition of breasts. Lewd meaning it's intended to cause shock or arousal, etc. I copy-pasted only the very first part of the law, the definitions, btw. The rest of the covers what's actually illegal and what the defenses are.
She needs to go to jail. Seriously. She's no better than all the poor slobs before her that were convicted of the same thing. Fame should be an aggravating factor. She should have to register as a sex offender when she gets out. Then maybe... Hopefully... This issue will get the attention it deserves and these draconian laws will change. But please, for the sake of all the other victims of this law, don't treat her special because she's female, pretty, rich, and famous.
A teenager caught masturbating themselves is guilty of child molestation. Our Country is so absurd.
- A Frog in a pond utters an azure cry. -
I surely hope so.
As far as I can tell, none of the articles about the incident mentioned that, if her lawyers are correct, then Maroney could be theoretically prosecuted for creating, possessing, and distributing child pornography. Of course nobody wants to see that happen, but the elephant in the living room is that before Maroney's photo leak scandal, many teens were arrested for doing essentially the same thing, and more of them will continue to be arrested after the celebrity nude hacking scandal is old news.
If its good enough for other teenagers, it's good enough for the famous ones too. If nobody wants to see the law enforced, maybe the law should be changed? Making exceptions for the upper class instead of fixing broken laws makes things worse, not better.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
This article is useless without pics. I'm off to find some and post the links so we can have a *real* discussion about this. Oh, hold on. Someone at the door...
On a more serious note, I've always found very disturbing the whole ssex-criminal-he's-fucked-for-life kind of way that Americans deal with it. Sure, a rapist should be thrown in pound-in-the-ass federal prison forever, but when the current law can screw forever an 18 year old guy who has sex with a 17 year old, something is wrong with it.
It also seems kind of backwards that when she did not distribute (IANAnAmericanLawyer) wilfully the material, she could be (probably would if she weren't a celebrity) be registered as a sex offender forever. Seems like a pretty ugly blame-the-victim case.
i *had* a low uid, but lost it in my lawn
Apparently the public must enjoy hysteria and knee jerk reactions. For a while it was kindergartens then it was priests and then convicted sex offenders and now the publics' panties are in a wad over teens sending nude pics on the smartphones. America needs to grow up and find some real problems to address.
in laws concerning sex, drugs and copyright.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.