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Eric Schmidt: Anxiety Over US Spying Will "Break the Internet"
jfruh writes Oregon Senator Ron Wyden gathered a group of tech luminaries to discuss the implications of U.S. surveillance programs, and Google Chairman Eric Schmidt didn't mince words. He said that worries over U.S. surveillance would result in servers with different sets of data for users from different countries multiplying across the world. "The simplest outcome is that we're going to end up breaking the Internet."
Restore the prohibitions against spying and require real warrants to engage. No more dragnets.
Things are just going to keep getting worse until it happens.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
... to spy on you, as it seeks monopoly on spying.
I like how the title of the article is "Jitters over US surveillance..." implying that the surveillance itself isn't the problem, we just need to get comfortable with it.
Did he mean "breaking" as in: services becoming more federated instead of being governed by 1 or 2 mega-corporations?
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
As usual, creative people will find solutions to make the spying irrelevant.
From decentralizing and conception to storing data where the US (and others) cannot legally reach it etc.
The US and other agencies dug themselves a hole. They have shown us they are weary of strong encryption standards and good security practices by individuals.
They've shown us that we cannot trust them to use data responsibly and that we should avoid sharing anything with them.
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
I think privacy and the lack of confidence in protecting our data will be limiting in how much the internet evolves. Its interesting how people embrace the cloud and social sites and all it brings. But then complains when they loose control over their data. As we continue to expand our data over multiple devices, multiple storage solutions on multiple servers in many different Countries. We must assume that it is less secure when we have little means ourselves to make sure its safe.
Right now most people care very little about losing their privacy to government snooping. At least until it happens to them. But we see so little organized involvement in demanding more privacy protection. Many people feel they have nothing that bears protection so why worry. But the shear ability of government to
be able to access your information without even notifying you should be very disturbing. Would we be so accepting if a government official showed up at your door and wanted to search your house? The disconnect of a physical presence in accessing your private things seems to be making people more accepting of it.
This is a dangerous step in the wrong direction for privacy and people really should be more concerned.
It woke us up to what's really going on.
Take a look at Samsung tablets, chances are it has a piece of spyware on it, DSMLawmo, this app comes installed on most modern Samsung devices and it can make phone calls, listen to phone calls, view and edit your SMSs, Send SMSs without your knowledge, take pictures and videos without your knowledge, record audio secretly, get your location, modify your contacts, do everything with your calender, add accounts to the tablet, change wifi settings and run apps, make apps invisible, add words to your dictionaries, remove words from your dictionaries, send broadcasts, draw over other apps,....
It can do all of this apparently using nothing but the voice channel to communicate to the tablet or phone.
It cannot be uninstalled.
It is running by default on all Sammy tablets.
Several people have complained that it is sucking down their battery power, since it seems to be 'active', not just running and waiting, but actually taking orders.
The claimed usage for this software is 'help desk', you are supposed to call Samsung and they take control of your tablet and do anything and everything by taking control of it. But the people complaining of battery drain from this app are not ringing Samsung for help. They'd like to turn it off.
And Samsung are not the only offender, this is just the latest app in the same vein as CarrierIQ. Google are not innocent in this, every Android tablet comes with 'Send background location info to Google' turned on, and they take every opportunity to collect data. Its twee that they think that somehow they are special and should get away with it, whereas NSA are not and shouldn't, but the problem is the data being collected by *anyone* unapproved for any purpose.
Or, alternatively use descent crypto and security procedure.
i.e: don't count on the US and everybody else behaving correctly (As if there were any chance that Russia and China would stop spying) (or US for that matter. They'll simply spin another secret tree-letter agency that they can denying knowing it exists).
instead count of the fact that there will always be fuckers somewhere on the net, and keep best practices to avoid becoming yet again a victim whoever might it be.
Things like end-to-end encryption (total encryption between the two users communicating like OTR, CryptoCat, Jitzi, etc., not only on each leg to/from the server like HTTPS), making GPG more userfriendly, making Tor more popular, etc.
then dragnet or not, user will be safer on the average, even from non-law abiding 3rd parties. (Not only safe from NSA, but safe from script kiddies too).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Hopefully Google has a plan to help stomp out this anxiety. They could tweak their search algorithms to flag pages likely to express such anxiety. And scan everyone's email for keywords that might indicate this unaccoutable anxiety over spying. And provide bounties/mechanisms for reporting suspected anxiety.
It's good to see Google calling out the real problem, and placing blame where it belongs.
Actually some of it already started happening before the NSA being busted:
for the SWIFT payment processing, the financial information of European users are mirror on two NON-US nodes for very obvious reasons (IRS, etc.)
only US users might have one of the two mirrors of their data on US soil.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Anxiety over US spying already broke lawfull access to data on cellphones for law enforcement agencies when Apple and Google declared that activating phone encryption will now be default.
bickerdyke
The result of data localization for most consumers would be a slower Internet experience
wat
From decentralizing and conception to storing data where the US (and others) cannot legally reach it etc.
That, and decent crypto and other such security means.
(OTR for chat, GPG for e-mail, TOR for traffic, etc.)
(code reviews, the whole openssl/libressl/boringssl story, truecrypt/ciphershed, etc.)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Every country (and reasonably sized corporation) on the planet is doing the same thing, always has done the same thing, always will do the same thing. Only fools believe their online activity is safe from snooping or ever will be.
Interesting that Google was represented by its executive chairman while Facebook, Microsoft and Dropbox seem to have been represented by their respective legal counsel.
Disclaimer: For all I know, other executives from Facebook, MS and Dropbox might well have been present but the article says nothing on that front.
Also sprach Zarathustra
Teh G is the Lounge Act
My compassion is broken now
My will is eroded now
Desire is broken
Guilt keeps me alive
At the bottom
The real problem is that there is nowhere to store data that is completely neutral as long as the US and the Five Eyes countries are free to ignore international law. Encryption can help, but not as long as the NSA or GCHQ can monitor everything and put backdoors in.
This won't break the internet, it'll eventually work to make it more secure.
We need crypto they can't demand the master keys for, and that will take an unreasonable amount of time to break.
My problem is that I want to control my data by placing it on systems under my control. Storing everything on Google is fine for Eric Schmidt because Eric Schmidt owns (many shares and a significant amount of control) of Google. Storing everything on Google is not so good for me because I don't.
And that's the real issue. Google and Facebook's entire business model is to violate my privacy. I don't know if Dropbox does anything with your data, but they've definitely chosen convenience over security. I'd rather store my stuff on SpiderOak than Dropbox. As long as my data are available to somebody other than me, then my data are vulnerable to hackers and immoral government officials.
Have a nice time.
No, not every country on the planet has always systematically intercepted and scanned all communication. Only fools believe the current situation is inevitable or acceptable. And your "safe from snooping" is a straw man: no one claims that it has been impossible to intercept a particular individual's communications. It's about the indiscriminate surveillance of the entire society.
Just because everyone is doing it, doesn't mean it's right.
This is the first time in history that compatibility of secret services with the constitution is up for discussion. Thanks to the leaks, we the people have an argumentative ground to stand on. It's time to make sure the secret services play by the constitution.
"Anxiety over US spying will hamper our ability to spy"
DRM in HTML will “break the internet” too, and you pushed for it. Surveillance sucks whether the data is gathered by a hostile government or by a friendly commercial entity.
If you have time to read 12,000 words, the New Yorker ran an excellent article last year detailing US surveillance programs and Senator Wyden's efforts to rein them in.
"State of Deception"
All of this news forced me to finally setup my own email and file/web server, and dump gmail and google drive. I learned a lot about setting up a domain, postfix, dovecot, spamassassin, apache, roundcube, samba, tls, openfire, and mysql.
There is money to be made by selling proper crypto solutions.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I'd still rather my data to be snooped by my own country's security services than by the Americans (if though there's an awful lot of data sharing between then). As such, I might be inclined to buy services from local suppliers than from Google. That's bad news for the US, in two ways - 1) it removes a bit of revenue from American companies, and 2) it promotes non-american companies, and the technology they need. Ultimately that means places like silicon valley stop being one of the few centres of technology innovation, and instead there are lots of SVs all around the world - again, bad news for the US.
This isn't all just me making stuff up - it's already happening. Sure, the US is no where near bankrupt because of it, but it doesn't take a genius to work out that it'll mean there's less opportunity for Americans now and in the future.
were much greater threats to the internet.
... it doesn't mean they're not out to get you :)
But as several others said, I see this as more of a threat to Google's business model than to the internet.
I apologize for the lack of a signature.
Maybe they're doing something they shouldn't be. Right, Mr. Schmidt?
servers with different sets of data for users from different countries multiplying across the world.
That will work, because we can all trust our own countries not to have bilateral sharing agreements with the US, and the US not to have illicit access to data stored in other countries. Can't we?
Absolutely right, just ask Crypto AG.
spying is spying
whether it's our Totalitarian Big Brother or our Capitalist Creepy Uncle
spying is spying
Thank you Dave Raggett
Anxiety over it? No. The spying itself? Ah yeah!
I like how this is slipped in there, like we shouldn't have any worries because it applies to only other countries data, like domestic spying is all just peachy and not slowing a thing, but that foreign intelligence, that's the REAL culprit!!!
and it already has in a few places, i think Iran has pulled the plug
i think more nations will cut the international wires and develop their own internet within their own nation's borders sort of like a Nation wide LAN, various governments may have some international connections to the WWW but there will be mostly separation between nation's, i dont mind this at all and would stop most of the international cybercrime,
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
different sets of data for users from different countries multiplying across the world.
So what? I don't care if my data is "out of sync" in Kabul or Beijing or Kuala Lampour or London or Sao Paulo. It's not a problem for me. However, companies attempting to monetize that data (Hello, Google, etc.) by selling it to advertisers across the globe ... it makes that data harder to sell. Awww. That won't break the internet - if anything it's an improvement, since someone in Nigeria now has to hit servers in North America to get information for spearfishing - something that will be easier to track.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
So, it's the fault of the anxious people, not the U.S government's thirst for more control?
Eric is confusing two issues, probably purposefully.
The issue of illegal (at least against US citizens) mass surveillance by the NSA and the like is one problem - but as others have pointed out, its something that should be assumed to always be happening, and doesn't have any real impact on the internet. People make a fuss about it, particularly in the US, but I think most people assumed it was happening anyway and it hasn't really changed the way that people, businesses or governments operate. Just look at the recent Silk Road story as an example
The issue that has everyone jittery is the close cooperation that has been shown between the US Government and US based companies, and from a legal perspective the stance that the US government is taking on data stored by US companies, outside the US, for a non-US entity. This has a huge effect on Google's business in particular, not as an adverting company - I would be surprised if they are loosing a significant amount of their consumer business - but rather their growing enterprise / cloud business. No one outside the US will want to switch to Gmail if their email can be read, without their knowledge, by the US Government issuing a National Security Letter, or even just by any local judge issuing a subpoena.
This is what they are talking about when they say you have to start a data center in Germany just to serve customers there. Its not the NSA hacking your system, or even snooping on the wire people are worried about. Its the legal and risk issue that the US government can seize your data, without any notification, and you have no legal recourse to prevent it happening.
Its a great opportunity for companies in Europe, but if your a US headquartered company, as Google is, its going to break *your* small part of the internet
Google doesn't like the competition.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Eric Schmidt is fine with Chinese spying, Russian spying, Iranian spying, British spying, German spying and Indian spying but US spying is beyond the pale!
What Schmidt is really saying is that these new conditions will break Big Data. Different local enforcement regimes, even laws in some places that protect net users from big global operations like Google, concern Schmidt more than anything else. The Net could go back to being decentralized in a way that Big Data can't monetize.
One of the reasons that laws exist is so that when someone breaks the law and gets caught, they can be punished. It's nice when laws apply to those in government and those employed by reasonably sized corporations, too.
Schmidt's idea of internet is "google everywhere". He thinks that fear of spying can make google users move to other non-google services.
how rich.
This is the same cocksucker who made the comment about "if you have nothing to hide" then you have nothing to worry about privacy, or something along those lines.
Eric my boy, fuck you asshole.
Did you just try to tell peoplez to delete System32? Because it sounds like you did.
from the old internet demise.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
I'd still rather my data to be snooped by my own country's security services than by the Americans
Out of curiosity, why do you feel this way?
Personally, I'd rather not be spied on at all. But if anyone were to spy on me, I'd prefer it be a foreign government who can't directly affect my life or freedom. Do you really trust your own government so implicitly? What do you think the Americans are going to do to you?
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
I'm not saying the US government did us all a favor, but .. um .. I think they might have done us all a favor. ;-) Sort of. It's like how high-profile smash-and-grab black hats do us all favors by finding the problems that the more subtle black hats have been using, or a whole family getting spectacularly burned to death in a fiery Pinto while witnesses hear them screaming in horrific agony, might finally cause a Pinto recall, thereby making all Pintos safer. (Hey, it's a mixed blessing, ya know?) We have long had a lot of problems that we have known about and continuously tolerated without doing anything about them, and if the US government is a sufficient bogeyman that people finally start giving a fuck, I think that's great.
(e.g. Home Depot: people are finally starting to care about the stupid ways our stupid cards stupidly work.)
That is good, and it helps users everywhere. One of the big problems of the Internet is blind, unwarranted trust, without thinking about whom you trust and why you trust them, and with what you trust them how much. Look at how just totally utterly thoughtless our trust in the X.509 root CAs is. We need trust, but there was too much of the stupid version going on, with silly token measures being taken to solve the problems that everyone just couldn't completely ignore. Now we're (probably, eventually) going to have serious thoughtful measures instead.
US Surveillance is the threat du jour. The US government isn't that special. They're doing what lots of entities (some governments, some not-governments) were either doing or could do. Twenty years from now, it'll be someone else. But today, our fear of the US government is what is going to allow us to justify doing something about the 2034 bad guys.
I am all for the US people forcing our government to work for us instead of against us. We need to reign them in, to protect our civil rights (and also just to keep them from wasting money on things that don't advance our interests; whatever resources you spend on spying on me are resources you could have spent on spying on actual adversaries instead). But we do not need to reign them in to give us the illusion that insecure protocols are now safe. We need to shed the illusion, instead.
So let me lay it out here, the new thing that is now going wrong, and why it's in all our interests to stop it:
We need to stop any new laws that prohibit the NSA from spying on non-US citizens. We need to keep the NSA aggressive (publicly, conspicuously aggressive) and for citizens of other countries to be worried about it. Worry is good. Why? Because I want the other countries to be just as publicly, visibly aggressive, for my country's citizens' benefit. I want every US citizen to be thinking, "Is the FSB intercepting my info and selling it to Chinese industry to fund Russian arms? Hmm. I should prevent my info from being intercepted!"
Because we had our chance when the bad guy's public face was "the Russian Mafia" (or whoever) and we blew it and didn't give a fuck about our info getting intercepted, which was great for the US government's domestic spying against ourselves. We didn't lock our doors and we didn't care about the occasional Pinto fire that killed only one or two people, because "hey, shit happens, whaddya gonna do?"
So give me a real bad guy. I want Europeans to live in fear of the NSA, so they'll get off their asses and scare us. Let's lock our doors and recall the fucking Pintos. And this is what it's going to take, to get it done.
That is how you improve security, not through laws. Getting into the habit of locking doors, is way more useful than anti-burglary laws. O
Remember Her Schmidt the 'Ice Cream Man' !
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DOuof1OzhL8k&sa=U&ei=Oaw2VJKEJOyTsQTY04LIDA&ved=0CBUQtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNG61qgNPONflEkDanS_8iBP2UNlaA
Ha ha LOL at der Schmidt
No the problem is very much spying on US citizens
To elaborate, even (especially?) in the countries where the US government has a direct impact on foreign citizens' lives (drone strikes, etc), the local government kills/imprisons more of its own citizens under questionable circumstances than the US does.
Don't construe my comment as excusing or apologizing for the actions of the US government abroad. I'm only saying that your own government is more of a threat to your life and liberty than any foreign government, if only because of its proximity to you. History certainly bears this out. Don't let an irrational fear of the American bogeyman drive you, with blind trust, into the arms of the devil you know.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
All we can do
Properly encrypt all the things.
And vote for internet-friendly candidates even when they won't win this time.
Until there's another resource that offers more porn for free, the internet isn't going anywhere.
Just think how much crime could be stopped by shutting down international trade altogether.
No, not every country on the planet has always systematically intercepted and scanned all communication.
Those who haven't - it's only because they do not have the technical/manpower/monetary means to do so. You really think that for example the European Union doesn't (IF they don't!) spy on its citizens out of the kindness of their hearts? No, the Union bureaucrats are just too incompetent, but looking at the legislature they're passing they'd be all to happy to, if they could.
laws don't matter with this government. If they CAN spy, they WILL spy. it is already broken.
Sorry Mr. Schmidt... it's not ANXIETY over small pox that kills, it's small pox that kills. Just like it's not ANXIETY over surveillance, it's the actual surveillance that causes the damage. Distrust of a government, dislike of corporate oligarchs, all attitudes created by actions, not user perceptions. What the hell ever happened to 'Don't Be Evil'.. ya right.
Ok I'm really scared now there must be something wrong with me when I find myself rooting for the US to continue spying on everyone...
"The simplest outcome is that we're going to end up breaking the Internet," said Eric Schmidt, Google's executive chairman. A splintering of the Internet would have costs in terms of science, knowledge, jobs and other areas, he said.
The Internet was designed to work without borders and can't reach its full potential with barriers between countries, said Colin Stretch, Facebook's general counsel. The result of data localization for most consumers would be a slower Internet experience and less personalized services, because Internet companies couldn't take advantage of economies of scale.
Rumor has it Eric Schmidt in the very same breath went on to say less is more, left is right, up is down, dark is light and...dramatic pause.... evil is good.
maybe google needs to stop being evil and admit there's a place for privacy in this world and on the Internet.
Privacy is not dead despite being attacked by governments and corporates.
I don't use google either for the same reason. Eric Schmidt is creepy.
I like GW Bush's idea of creating internets. Different perspectives of information based on different peoples.
Have never really been into the Borgish one size fits all collective based internet that reinforces everyone to think the same way.
I'd rather be spied upon by foreigners than my own government because they have less reason to want to harm me.