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Core Secrets: NSA Saboteurs In China and Germany
Advocatus Diaboli writes with this snippet from The Intercept: The National Security Agency has had agents in China, Germany, and South Korea working on programs that use "physical subversion" to infiltrate and compromise networks and devices, according to documents obtained by The Intercept. The documents, leaked by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, also indicate that the agency has used under cover operatives to gain access to sensitive data and systems in the global communications industry, and that these secret agents may have even dealt with American firms. The documents describe a range of clandestine field activities that are among the agency's "core secrets" when it comes to computer network attacks, details of which are apparently shared with only a small number of officials outside the NSA.
... so he'll not feel inspired to keep leaking.
I'm all for the leaks when it concerns stuff the NSA does against civilians. But against foreign governments? The point of the NSA is to do that sort of thing. And anyone that thinks these other governments aren't doing the same thing back are kidding themselves. The US is just walking around with their fly down until they get Snowden home. And he can be brought back at any time for the low low price of just pardoning him. Do that, admit fault, have a national/international discussion about it, and then as part of that he stops.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Snowden is a whistleblower. He deserves our thanks, and an apology from everyone who's demanded that he be prosecuted.
Using classification to cover up billions of felonies is something the American people should never tolerate again.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Does look like they need adult supervision - sentry hawk, owl, raven etc it's so fucking comic book that you wonder if they spend all their time dreaming up James Bond plot lines instead of actually getting some work down. Get rid of these toy soldiers and replace them with real ones.
The traitors are all the apparatchiki who routinely violate their oath to the constitution by violating the fourth amendment on a routine basis. Snowden was the only man at the NSA who did his duty.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Isn't this EXACTLY what the NSA's job is?
Snowden doesn't leak these reports anymore. He doesn't even have access to the files. It's all reporters doing it now.
My first instinct was to reply to you with a dismissive expletive - thus having shown in my reply as much critical thought as you did in your post.
But I realized that I too once came from the Stephan Decatur school, and should be gentle with a previous self. You see, as one grows older and the rose colored glasses begin to loose their tint, one realizes that one may be patriotic AND critical simultaneously. Couple that with the growing realization that the country which we love has almost certainly committed crimes against her own people, and it becomes a moral imperative for her citizens to wake from their stupor and attempt to regain the power over government and basic human freedoms so eloquently elucidated in our Constitution.
Did Snowden break the law? Certainly. Was the law Constitutional? Not if the Executive Orders were being used to shield malfeasance (and despite Tricky Dick's assert actions, simply because a President does it does not MAKE it legal). Should you, as a responsible citizen you loves his country stop to think on his own for once instead of making a knee jerk assessment? For the sake of the Republic, I hope so,
What is the point of US citizenship if there is no difference in treatment? If US citizenship is nearly unique in that there is a tax liability for income earned anywhere in the universe based on that nexus of citizenship, it BETTER be worth something like immunity from NSA spying.
You don't say.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
He is HARDLY the only man at the NSA who did his duty, that's totally nieve and foolish to say.
Clearly you think the sun shines out of his arse because of his good deed. Clap clap.
The NSA is a spy agency. Its job is to spy, which involves secretly doing illegal things in other countries. The problem with the NSA is secretly doing illegal things in this country.
And if you think that's hypocritical, think again I expect European and Asian countries to spy on us too. It's part of international relations, and it's good for countries to be able to check up on each other, instead of having to rely merely on official statements.
Physical subversion of foreign intelligence assets is CIA territory, not NSA. While that certainly IS a way to perform Signal Interception, I'm cautiously optimistic that is outside the scope of their charter.
There's a reason these powers were supposed to have been segregated between multiple branches of the government/military and not just consolidated all under one roof. One of those reasons was accountability to their constituents, the other being so they couldn't use this to subvert the rule of law.
Now that neither is true, we need to look long and hard at what steps to take to suitable resolve this dilemma while not letting outside forces dominate our internal and international landscapes.
This is a classic way technical intelligence specialists operate. Lets analyze practical example: the target is a database. The potential attack vectors are following (but obviously not limited to): a)compromised hardware which allows to download data from the server b) compromised software which allows to download data from the server c) compromised specialist (s) which download the data d) intercepted communications,
Rule #1: any gathered data is verified by comparing it to independent source. Rule #2: the sources cannot know about each other. Only if these two rules are met the data can be considered as data which has passed basic verification. "Physical subversion", "blackmail", "infiltration" are day to day activities, the bread and butter, for all those agencies.
When Snowden released documents that indicated that (amongst other things) Huawei had been compromised, I wondered if human intelligence or "social engineering" may have been used to obtain some passwords. If so, and if the Chinese govt. found out who (perhaps inadvertently) gave them away, that person would at the very least seen their employment terminated and perhaps even been terminated themselves!
Now with the frank admission that there are human spies at work in China for the NSA, I'm sure the Chinese govt. has redoubled their efforts to find (and kill) them. If so, then these leaks may be directly responsible for the deaths (probably after considerable torture) of individuals who, for whatever reason, were helping the U.S.
So, this is a very serious consequence of the leaks. Do you still agree that Snowden was justified in leaking all of this presumably without giving the U.S. advance warning of what he was going to release (so that they could get vulnerable individuals to safety?).
but really, guys, rather than worry about some government agent seeing some of your metadata or even outright data, shouldn't we just be going about our lives and not really worry about this stuff. I've worked IT security for many years and I'm under no illusions that the Internet is basically an open book. I'm not advocating "if you've gotten nothing to hide, don't worry". Just live life and don't worry. To be honest, you've got more to worry about from corporations selling your data and your insurance rates going up that to worry that Uncle Sam may know you look at pr0n.
release details of wrong doing and violations against US citizens... maybe illegal, but understandable.
releasing national security secrets that can very realistically results in the deaths of americans and their supporters, financial losses to us corporations, and threatening national security? I would not hesitate to pull the trigger on this guy. His life isn't worth the lives and losses he has likely caused.
as for the reporters, it might have been a good idea to take out the sources (illegal and costly though it might have been), to prevent most of these leaks and to set a detterent. The parties involved were not american, and while legally dubious, and politically costly, it would have been worth it in hindsight.
Am I the only one that is still wondering why these "snowden leaks" are still coming out in the way that they are? I mean, are we all going to be sitting around 30 years from now, still hearing about these leaks?
The year is 2045: Snowden leaks - The NSA has been watching all of you guys' teleport activity since the early 1980's! They used physical hardware hacks that you could have never known about... and they're doing it to foreign countries too!
Seriously, it all seems like the information that we're getting is being spooled in a prefabricated way, as to serve the fear propaganda more so than it should. I'm just waiting for the "NSA actually created the universe" leak.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
Glenn is going to die screaming. But first, David is going to be fed to the dogs while Glenn watches. :-)
What you quoted is often true. It's either secure or not.
On the other hand, If I encrypt some data, it can only be decrypted with the key. Theoretically, only I have the key, so only I can decrypt it. However, in at least one major instance, it's believed that the NSA also has a key*. If only me and the NSA have keys, the data is available to me and the NSA, but no one else. Whether that's good bad, the idea is that only two parties have keys. The attacker doesn't have my key, and the attacker doesn't have the NSA key.
* Actually more like NSA has half the key, and therefore only needs to construct the other half on a per-user basis. This is because each user's key is derived partially based on NSA-controlled numbers. (Initialization vectors) .
Some people love their country as an adult loves another adult: I love you, even as I realize that you are finite and make mistakes and we can get through them together. Others love their country as a child loves their mother: Mommy is perfect and can do no wrong and if you're mean to mommy you're a horrible person!
Needless to say, when mommy's lover comes over and finds mommy strung out on heroin, things tend to get loud.
Most of you have it wrong. Its not is he a whistleblower or is he a traitor? Is the situation white or black? The simple truth is that he is now beyond debate **both** a whistleblower and a traitor. The two are not mutually exclusive. The whistleblower actions do not negate the traitorous actions.
Revealing mass surveillance of US citizens is obviously whistleblowing.
However revealing clandestine cyber operations against China, a country that routinely conduct cyber espionage against US commercial, governmental and military computers, is traitorous.
Plus it makes it more difficult to blow off as a coincidence the fact that he revealed the mass surveillance just as President Obama was about to publicly criticize China for cyber espionage actions against the US; and he fled to China for sanctuary and protection - something that would come with a price tag given the diplomatic heat China would take. These facts are a bit less tin-foil-hat than there were previously.
We are now seeing how Snowden paid the rent in China and Russia.
The traitors are all the apparatchiki who routinely violate their oath to the constitution by violating the fourth amendment on a routine basis. Snowden was the only man at the NSA who did his duty.
Your own logic proves you wrong. He did his duty by revealing mass surveillance targeting US civilians. However he **also** violated his oath and committed treason by disclosing cyber operations against China. A country that routinely conducts such operations against the US. So by your criteria, he is a traitor due to the China disclosure. He committed separate acts of disclosure, one commendable and one traitorous.
And we now know how Snowden pays for the rent in China and Russia.
I'm from Germany. Ever since it was leaked that the NSA was spying so extensively on our government that by international standards it could reasonably be considered an act of war, I wonder what it'll take for our USA-lapdog chancellor to grow a spine and do more than giving Obama a stern talk.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Then you're a willfully ignorant nazi shitbag using talking points that turned out to be BS when they were first used against Manning.
... I'm quite certain 'elsewhere' a sniffing device is installed.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Traitor!
What Republic?
Most if not all of the policies passed is the last 20 years have not been to the benefit of the public which means absolutely no 'power resides with the people':
http://www.princeton.edu/~mgilens/Gilens%20homepage%20materials/Gilens%20and%20Page/Gilens%20and%20Page%202014-Testing%20Theories%203-7-14.pdf
These laws being passed by the Federal Government are nothing short of being legalized crime. Look no further than Civil Forfeitures and the rampant destruction it is causing.
"one may be patriotic AND critical simultaneously."
To be a 'patriot' is to be ignorantly loyal to the scum that are destroying our nation.
Your way of thinking is very scary...
Let me say you a full-hearted FUCK YOU. You Americans have a total-control complex. Did you learn that from your Saudi "Allies" ?
So NSA has to fuck up ALL computers and relevant software of something like 3000 million people in order to do their job ? I am sure Lenin and Tshershkinsky would have concurred...
Of course you and your fellow little-sized dick-wearers need to bug 100% of communication devices. It does not suffice to spy on the 0.1% real decisionmakers. Like your great role model Wladimir Illitch Uljanov, aka LENIN. Dont trust - CONTROL !
Take the Berlin Collaborateurs with you to New York and please leave Germany alone. Verpisst Euch, Amerikaner.
Aufhören, die Amerikaner als "die Guten" zu betrachten. Wir müssen ALLE Besatzer loswerden, auch die angeblich so netten Engländer und Amerikaner. Diese Länder betreiben regelmäßig blutige Neu-Kolonialkriege und wollen uns neuerdings zu Kumpanen dieser Verbrechen machen. Erst vor Monaten haben sie massenhaft Waffen nach Syrien gepumpt, welche jetzt "aus der Luft neutralisiert" werden müssen. Nur die Waffenindustrie lebt von diesem Menschen-Fleischwolf, den McCain und Co. dort installiert haben.
...how many AFISR soldiers now show up for propaganda purposes. You and your buddies at Raytheon, CSC and the like must be really badly scared about losing your PORK.
"Europe" is a bunch of Vasalls, like Vichy France was the vasall of Germany then. Except that the U.S. is not as heavy-handed in their methods. I concede that. But still, we are not America's allies. We are America's Bitches.
What they actually do is to insert backdoors into VHDL designs and C code of foreign router makers. So 100% of devices have an NSA-GCHQ backdoor after this "treatment". You want to make us think they need to physically access "closets". No, they physically access R&D labs and have their undercover developers add backdoors to "systems which are too secure".
...GCHQ "coincidentally" had a backdoor for Firefox, so that they could hack their way into Belgacom and commandeer their network to perform SIGINT on ANY person in Belgacoms telecom network.
In my opinion, GCHQ and NSA have their DEVELOPER MOLES at Mozilla. That's how it works.
BINGO. Snowden threatens the business interests of the War Industry. Folks like Raytheon, L3 Communications, Lockheed, CSC, Booze Allen Hamilton and the like. In other words, he hinders the flow of PORK.
Upholding ancient traditions like Magna Charta is at the core of patriotism and those who support the Elektrik Tskeka are the traitors. The truth is that the vast majority of ANY people are fucking cowards who will ALWAYS go with the government line, no matter whether it is run by Bu$h, Blair, Hitler or Obama.
What they did then was comparatively "targeted". Now they aim for browser source code, OS source code and processor VHDL designs. In other words, they want to pwn ANY COMPUTER OR TELECOM DEVICE. It seems Huawei did not cooperate as nicely as Siemens and Cisco. Therefore they were stigmatized witht the very own shit allegations which are the truth with U.S. companies.
"You want intel ? Give us 100% of your citizen's communication and information. Thank you very much". U.S. "allies" are mostly bitches, except for some nice countries like Pakistan who manage to lead the U.S. with a nose-ring through the manege.
...the flow of PORK will dry up. Or is it the other way around ? YOU are the TRAITOR here. You are treasonous relative to freedom.
...must be dis-powered. Most of them are loving collaborateurs first with the Austrian, now with the Americans. They are scumbags who sell out the German people. We need to control them, not the other way around. They must fear us, not we them.
As a German Patritot I Can Say This ... Take the Berlin Collaborateurs with you to New York and please leave Germany alone. Verpisst Euch, Amerikaner.
By "German Patriot" you really mean Neo-Nazi. You use of "New York" is old Nazi symbolism for US Jews. The Nazis also like to use the word "collaborator" with respect to the Jews since the "Communists and Jews collaborated with the west to destroy Germany in 1919", this was a popular delusional belief to avoid admitting Germany's utter military defeat and imminent collapse during the 1st World War. It seems idiocy in Germany lives on to this day in the minds of those unable to function in civilized society and ignorant of history. Is two complete and utter ass whooping not enough, is that ass whooping your thing, do you like it ... the Nazis always did seem a bit of the self hating closet masochist so I guess its your thing.
Whil I agree that Edward Snowden has participated in the NSA's treasonous activities, he did realise the errors of his ways and he used his position to publicise the NSA's criminal and unethical behaviours in ways no-one else has been brave enough to do. In view of this, I think his former contributions to the NSA's activities can be forgiven.
That we are still doing what we have been doing since the War of Independence.
Not.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --