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Core Secrets: NSA Saboteurs In China and Germany
Advocatus Diaboli writes with this snippet from The Intercept: The National Security Agency has had agents in China, Germany, and South Korea working on programs that use "physical subversion" to infiltrate and compromise networks and devices, according to documents obtained by The Intercept. The documents, leaked by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, also indicate that the agency has used under cover operatives to gain access to sensitive data and systems in the global communications industry, and that these secret agents may have even dealt with American firms. The documents describe a range of clandestine field activities that are among the agency's "core secrets" when it comes to computer network attacks, details of which are apparently shared with only a small number of officials outside the NSA.
... so he'll not feel inspired to keep leaking.
I'm all for the leaks when it concerns stuff the NSA does against civilians. But against foreign governments? The point of the NSA is to do that sort of thing. And anyone that thinks these other governments aren't doing the same thing back are kidding themselves. The US is just walking around with their fly down until they get Snowden home. And he can be brought back at any time for the low low price of just pardoning him. Do that, admit fault, have a national/international discussion about it, and then as part of that he stops.
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Snowden is a whistleblower. He deserves our thanks, and an apology from everyone who's demanded that he be prosecuted.
Using classification to cover up billions of felonies is something the American people should never tolerate again.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Does look like they need adult supervision - sentry hawk, owl, raven etc it's so fucking comic book that you wonder if they spend all their time dreaming up James Bond plot lines instead of actually getting some work down. Get rid of these toy soldiers and replace them with real ones.
The traitors are all the apparatchiki who routinely violate their oath to the constitution by violating the fourth amendment on a routine basis. Snowden was the only man at the NSA who did his duty.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Isn't this EXACTLY what the NSA's job is?
Snowden doesn't leak these reports anymore. He doesn't even have access to the files. It's all reporters doing it now.
My first instinct was to reply to you with a dismissive expletive - thus having shown in my reply as much critical thought as you did in your post.
But I realized that I too once came from the Stephan Decatur school, and should be gentle with a previous self. You see, as one grows older and the rose colored glasses begin to loose their tint, one realizes that one may be patriotic AND critical simultaneously. Couple that with the growing realization that the country which we love has almost certainly committed crimes against her own people, and it becomes a moral imperative for her citizens to wake from their stupor and attempt to regain the power over government and basic human freedoms so eloquently elucidated in our Constitution.
Did Snowden break the law? Certainly. Was the law Constitutional? Not if the Executive Orders were being used to shield malfeasance (and despite Tricky Dick's assert actions, simply because a President does it does not MAKE it legal). Should you, as a responsible citizen you loves his country stop to think on his own for once instead of making a knee jerk assessment? For the sake of the Republic, I hope so,
What is the point of US citizenship if there is no difference in treatment? If US citizenship is nearly unique in that there is a tax liability for income earned anywhere in the universe based on that nexus of citizenship, it BETTER be worth something like immunity from NSA spying.
You don't say.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
He is HARDLY the only man at the NSA who did his duty, that's totally nieve and foolish to say.
Clearly you think the sun shines out of his arse because of his good deed. Clap clap.
The NSA is a spy agency. Its job is to spy, which involves secretly doing illegal things in other countries. The problem with the NSA is secretly doing illegal things in this country.
And if you think that's hypocritical, think again I expect European and Asian countries to spy on us too. It's part of international relations, and it's good for countries to be able to check up on each other, instead of having to rely merely on official statements.
Physical subversion of foreign intelligence assets is CIA territory, not NSA. While that certainly IS a way to perform Signal Interception, I'm cautiously optimistic that is outside the scope of their charter.
There's a reason these powers were supposed to have been segregated between multiple branches of the government/military and not just consolidated all under one roof. One of those reasons was accountability to their constituents, the other being so they couldn't use this to subvert the rule of law.
Now that neither is true, we need to look long and hard at what steps to take to suitable resolve this dilemma while not letting outside forces dominate our internal and international landscapes.
This is a classic way technical intelligence specialists operate. Lets analyze practical example: the target is a database. The potential attack vectors are following (but obviously not limited to): a)compromised hardware which allows to download data from the server b) compromised software which allows to download data from the server c) compromised specialist (s) which download the data d) intercepted communications,
Rule #1: any gathered data is verified by comparing it to independent source. Rule #2: the sources cannot know about each other. Only if these two rules are met the data can be considered as data which has passed basic verification. "Physical subversion", "blackmail", "infiltration" are day to day activities, the bread and butter, for all those agencies.
Am I the only one that is still wondering why these "snowden leaks" are still coming out in the way that they are? I mean, are we all going to be sitting around 30 years from now, still hearing about these leaks?
The year is 2045: Snowden leaks - The NSA has been watching all of you guys' teleport activity since the early 1980's! They used physical hardware hacks that you could have never known about... and they're doing it to foreign countries too!
Seriously, it all seems like the information that we're getting is being spooled in a prefabricated way, as to serve the fear propaganda more so than it should. I'm just waiting for the "NSA actually created the universe" leak.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
What you quoted is often true. It's either secure or not.
On the other hand, If I encrypt some data, it can only be decrypted with the key. Theoretically, only I have the key, so only I can decrypt it. However, in at least one major instance, it's believed that the NSA also has a key*. If only me and the NSA have keys, the data is available to me and the NSA, but no one else. Whether that's good bad, the idea is that only two parties have keys. The attacker doesn't have my key, and the attacker doesn't have the NSA key.
* Actually more like NSA has half the key, and therefore only needs to construct the other half on a per-user basis. This is because each user's key is derived partially based on NSA-controlled numbers. (Initialization vectors) .
Is that before or after the angry mob tears most of the NSA bosses to bloody pieces on the streets?
Because it will require some hardcore desperation on part of intelligence to do something that stupid and self-incriminating, and suggests complete lack of options.
Most of you have it wrong. Its not is he a whistleblower or is he a traitor? Is the situation white or black? The simple truth is that he is now beyond debate **both** a whistleblower and a traitor. The two are not mutually exclusive. The whistleblower actions do not negate the traitorous actions.
Revealing mass surveillance of US citizens is obviously whistleblowing.
However revealing clandestine cyber operations against China, a country that routinely conduct cyber espionage against US commercial, governmental and military computers, is traitorous.
Plus it makes it more difficult to blow off as a coincidence the fact that he revealed the mass surveillance just as President Obama was about to publicly criticize China for cyber espionage actions against the US; and he fled to China for sanctuary and protection - something that would come with a price tag given the diplomatic heat China would take. These facts are a bit less tin-foil-hat than there were previously.
We are now seeing how Snowden paid the rent in China and Russia.
The traitors are all the apparatchiki who routinely violate their oath to the constitution by violating the fourth amendment on a routine basis. Snowden was the only man at the NSA who did his duty.
Your own logic proves you wrong. He did his duty by revealing mass surveillance targeting US civilians. However he **also** violated his oath and committed treason by disclosing cyber operations against China. A country that routinely conducts such operations against the US. So by your criteria, he is a traitor due to the China disclosure. He committed separate acts of disclosure, one commendable and one traitorous.
And we now know how Snowden pays for the rent in China and Russia.
There is? I've been in quite a few kennels and I find the sound to be quite normal.
Of course, I'm not a complete idiot and a raging psychopath who thinks that intelligence agencies go around openly and brutally killing their noisiest critics instead of discrediting them.
I'm from Germany. Ever since it was leaked that the NSA was spying so extensively on our government that by international standards it could reasonably be considered an act of war, I wonder what it'll take for our USA-lapdog chancellor to grow a spine and do more than giving Obama a stern talk.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Then you're a willfully ignorant nazi shitbag using talking points that turned out to be BS when they were first used against Manning.
... I'm quite certain 'elsewhere' a sniffing device is installed.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
There are no "occupants" any more since the 2+4 treaty. The NATO covered our ass for the last 60 years and the allies brought us the little freedom we had since WW 2.
Beyond doubt they are taking away this freedom and try to implement an orwellian surveillance state of unbelievable proportions, just like they did in the US und GB. And yes, the problems in Irak, Iran und Syria are direct results of american interventions.
But "getting rid of them" is no realistic option. The German reunion was granted only if Germany stays in the NATO. Whether we like that or not.
But being allies does not mean that we could not demand the end of this surveillance or threaten them to leave the NATO. But neither Merkel nor Steinmeier will do that. You might not have noticed, but they are collaborators. And concerning our freedom and privacy, they are collaborating with enemies of our constitutional rights. But in order to stop that, there needs to be a change in government first.
It will take time for an election that does not result in "Social Demokrats" (neither social nor democrats) or "Christian Demokrats" (not being democrats) in the government.
First things first. As long as the traitors that collaborate with the five eyes against our constitutional rights are in the government, there won't be a chance to convince the members of the five eyes that we are serious about the demands to stop spying on each and every German citizen.
Looks like it is working out great for Pakistan. I think the whole world admires what a wonderful place that is to live.
Who doesn't want to live there? Raise a family... start a career...
Oh that's right... no one. It is a shithole. And the betrayals do not go unnoticed. The reason we didn't tell them about the Osama raid was because they had been lying to us. Because of that they are cut off. We will only tell them what they need to know when they need to know it.
What is more, they are cut off from our tech and we're not going to do more then the bare minimum to maintain the that relationship of convenience. Ultimately we're going to ally with India instead. Much more rational country.
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You say that from which country's perspective? It helps me understand where you are coming from.
As to the American control complex... it is because we are responsible for global peace. Your country isn't.
We are a super power. We have responsibilities. If we drop the ball, billions might die. We have more responsibility every day then your culture has probably had in the last thousand years combined.
Dare to contest me. You might not like how irrelevant you are or how important the US is... and it is a problem because we're human just like everyone else and we make mistakes.
But that doesn't mean we're not the people that keep things calm enough for people to live. We keep international trade flowing. We back the international treaties that maintain world peace. We control nuclear arms. We control biological weapons. We control chemical weapons. We deny expansionist powers the ability to claim territory simply with force of arms. We forge peace and we build nations.
Are we perfect? Hardly... we're people just like everyone else. But we are far more powerful then you and with that power comes responsibility. And with that responsibility comes the right to use it.
I don't like it either. I really don't. I'd just assume retreat all US forces back to our country and let the world take care of its own problems. But we tried that after WW1 and what happened? The europeans were killing each other almost immediately. And it has only been through US military force that europe has remained peaceful. The europeans basically don't even have militaries now and they is because we protect them. And in protecting them we have restrained their old imperialist ambitions. And through that we have prevented them from killing each other again.
Think about it.
Did the US start or cause WW1?
Nope.
Did we start WW2?
Nope.
Did we start the cold war? Nope.
What wars did we start? Second Iraq war possibly though that is debatable. Short of that... none of them.
And you presume to judge us. Which country do you represent?
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You Sir are insane. Stop posting as "Anonymous Coward" and come forward with your real ID. I risked some Karma to tell " Karmashock" that he is an uninformed idiot and why.
You are proposing that Germany should "rise up" again and spread fear on the american and russian people. This opinion is a neclectable minority in Germany, and rightfully so.
You learned nothing from our history. EOT.
As to stupidity, that is something you'll have to back up.
1. Cold war. Many of the things the US has done over the years that people like you don't understand are related to that conflict. You don't understand it because you didn't fight it.
2. Cold war again.
3. Cold war again.
4. Nuclear containment. It revolves around our fears of WW3 which are central to US strategic policy. Again, minor powers tend not to understand such things because they have no capability or responsibility for managing long term global peace.
5. Current US foreign policy is profoundly confused and I don't know exactly what they think they're doing. I think the current US president just reads opinion polls and does whatever they say. He appears to be a profoundly rudderless individual. What ideas has he come up with that are his own? Think about it. Nothing. So I don't take the current administration as especially representative of anything.
As to Vietnam, Cold war again. Further, consider the difference between North Korea and South Korea. Vietnam could have been like South Korea. They chose poorly. Regardless... Cold War.
As to Germany, I hold no animosity towards modern Germans. I just think you're a bit naive to think the violence stopped just because you haven't had to fight in a long time. You have been under our Aegis. Absent the US, the Soviets would have absorbed you into the USSR and you'd be there still.
You are free because we won the cold war. You have a democracy because we won the cold war.
I think I'm going to let Jack break it down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
The salient point is that without America guarding the walls... you would not be free today. Germany would not exist. Europe would not exist. You would have been subsumed into the soviet empire.
As to the US not being beneficial to the world anymore. I disagree, HOWEVER I am very happy to back off and let nature take its course here.
This is a difference between my generation and my father's generation and my grandfather's generation. They valued europe. They valued this alliance. They felt your freedom was worth American blood and treasure.
Mine doesn't. So you want us gone? We will pull back as soon as the baby boom generation leaves power. Count on it.
US strategic policy will likely start winding down our international commitments. We'll probably sell weapons and train people if they want. But we'll not put drones in the sky or boots on the ground. And that will mean that nations that haven't had to defend their borders for two generations will suddenly find themselves as the only thing stopping their own country from enslavement.
I wish no ill upon your people. I wish no ill upon any people that leave my people alone. I am very happy to retire the American giant back to its island where we can finally sleep. Think of how long we have been fighting? We are beyond tired of it.
We have fought the good fight and we are weary. Everywhere we are met with people asking us to do things for them and saying we have a responsibility to fight.
We're tired. But we feel obligated to help. Think of the people that came to the aid of europe THREE times.
We came to help in WW1.
We came to help in WW2.
We came to help in the Cold War.
We are still those people. And you can hate us for that... but were we any different your society would not exist. We are however very tired... and the ignorance and ingratitude of your society makes us all the more tired. We don't want to spill our blood for you anymore. We wish to sleep the dream of peace. A dream you have only enjoyed in Germany at our expense. It is our turn to sleep... and probably soon to be your turn to fight again.
Good day.
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That we are still doing what we have been doing since the War of Independence.
Not.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --