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After Negative User Response, ChromeOS To Re-Introduce Support For Ext{2,3,4}
NotInHere writes: Only three days after the public learned that the ChromeOS project was going to disable ext2fs support for external drives (causing Linux users to voice many protests on websites like Slashdot and the issue tracker), the ChromeOS team now plans to support it again. To quote Ben Goodger's comment: "Thanks for all of your feedback on this bug. We've heard you loud and clear. We plan to re-enable ext2/3/4 support in Files.app immediately. It will come back, just like it was before, and we're working to get it into the next stable channel release."
Correct response. Thanks Google for listening. I definitely would consider a Chromebox however ext support is manditory!
No zombified, closed-down Linux for me. I will continue to use the real thing.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
So now bitching and moaning constitutes contributing to F/OSS? Awesome! I'm an open source contributor! Now to put this on my resume.....
Really, why focus on ChromeOS at all when Android does everything it does and a lot more besides. They should focus on Android.
[sad to say Sundar, head of ChromeOS, took over Android from Andy Rubin, which is why the development of Android seems to be more about running Android apps on ChromeOS, to rescue ChromeOS than anything to benefit Android].
It's sad, they have a desktop OS there in Android, yet Samsung are the ones using the windows and dialogs that Android supports but doesn't use, in their Note series, and Google's Android development is just cosmetic.
Samsung is really leading Android at this point, Lollipop is just a reskin and a few tweaks.
Microsoft and RedHat: watch and learn from Google
Google hit piece - published
Florian Mueller sockpuppet chat - published
Microsoft docker press release - published
Lockheed invents practical nuclear fusion device - ehhhh not that interesting from a financial perspective
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Now where can I bitch and moan about Chrome loading all tabs at once on startup? Such a pain to launch it and wait for a.couple dozen js- and flash-ridden pages to load..
So a bug is a feature and per Google, a removed feature is a bug? Okay, I think I have it.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Next up, after negative user response, ChromeOS to publish full source code and become free user-respecting software.
ChromeOS tends to ship on Tivoized hardware, which isn't exactly Gnu-Freedom; but, in terms of the software on top of the bootloader, what are the deficiencies? I know it ships a proprietary Flash, and whatever bullshit makes Netflix work; but is there anything else?
Now if they would just support LUKS I would be a happy camper.
At least they are listening. But, it would be nice if they pushed a unified OS between the Chrome stuff and Android. Annoying when a phone/tablet has more software available than a "laptop".
Google hit piece - published
Florian Mueller sockpuppet chat - published
Microsoft docker press release - published
Lockheed invents practical nuclear fusion device - ehhhh not that interesting from a financial perspective
Errr.
Lockheed claims that they have an idea that might create an nuclear fusion device in 2030. (15 years from now)
Afair, nuclear fusion has always been 15 years away....
A responsive development team. That's pretty cool! Now if only Google would put some time into improving Gmail because their web based product sucks ass.
Next up, after negative user response, ChromeOS to publish full source code and become free user-respecting software.
ChromeOS tends to ship on Tivoized hardware, which isn't exactly Gnu-Freedom; but, in terms of the software on top of the bootloader, what are the deficiencies? I know it ships a proprietary Flash, and whatever bullshit makes Netflix work; but is there anything else?
I'd like to hear this to. Googles been generally friendly to my FOSS concerns. Perfect? No... but we really are a tiny minority. I appreciate that they understand what we're about and are making an effort. If all you ever do when these companies offer things like this is get pissed and scream "NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!" they will eventually stop trying in the first place.
Android has full support for a windowing system, that is exactly what Samsung is using when it does the Note line. You might think its splitting the screen with some hack, but actually its just using the windows that are supported, but normally full screen.
Android also supports a mouse, touchpad, and keyboard. It is more than touch interface.
Samsung Note is the biggest selling tablet, and uses these features (ok, the mouse is substituted for the hover stylus, but the principle is the same). So the system *DOES* sell, and in volumes far bigger than Windows laptops are selling right now. But this is Samsungs not Googles Android that sells here. It Samsung that are using the stylus as a mouse, and using the windowing systems to put multiple apps on screen.
Chrome OS is not selling, and the ability to run *some* Android apps on ChromeOS will not fix that. It is not in any sense a full OS.
Then Google would have completely ignored the complaints claiming that their research showed absolutely everyone just loved elimination of support for external drives.
We talked, they listened.
Sitting here at breakfast, happily using my little Chromebook that boots into Linux when I need it.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Unfortunately not every time they respond to feedback like that. There has been a longlasting circus of people wanting to Google to reintroduce "tree style tab" functionality in Chrome, a feature that was available for a while as an experimental thing. Currently the discussion is around Chrome bug #344870. I would appreciate if some engineer had at least the balls to say "no, we are not implementing that". Of course, maybe even Google itself hasn't made the final decision on the matter, and they are kind of avoiding the issue for now.
If all you ever do when these companies offer things like this is get pissed and scream "NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!" they will eventually stop trying in the first place.
This is also why SystemD developers ignore most of the whining in Slashdot. They know that people rant about every new framework arriving into Linux world anyway.
"Lockheed invents practical nuclear fusion device - ehhhh not that interesting from a financial perspective"
So far, pretty much the entire scientific community has found that the only difference between these claims of success and the claims of success of Pons and Fleischman is that these are coming from Lockheed.
Which has basically zero reputation in fusion research. No data, no papers published, nothing.
(Disclaimer: I work for Lockheed. I find the latest thing to be just embarassing.)
Say it again, brother!
"If you love someone, set them free. If they come home, set them on fire." - George Carlin
Other android smartphones flash drives with OTG cables out of the box, why don't you?
Of course we're going to rant.
Fix the old shit first before pushing something new and similarly broken upon us so we at least have something stable to fall back upon.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Maybe. If the pushes are in the right direction it gradually moves the overall discussion in the way you want it to go.
I'm a linux user, and a ChromeOS user. I failed to see why everyone got their painties in such a bunch over this. ext* external file systems don't really seem to be in the scope of the ChormeOS devices, what would be the use case for 99.99% of users of ChromeOS to do this? Heck, I don't even format my detachable external drives as ext* on my linux boxen as those are the drives I use to transfer bits around to other computers.
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate
> ChromeOS tends to ship on Tivoized hardware
Quite the opposite. At least Acer, Dell, Samsung, HP and Lenovo Chromebooks all support developer mode, where you have full root access and can even boot any other Linux from a USB stick or SD card. Is there another manufacturer that makes a Chromebook, and locks it?
Lockheed did no such thing.
To quote Ben Goodger's comment: "Thanks for all of your feedback on this bug. We've heard you loud and clear. We plan to re-enable ext2/3/4 support in Files.app immediately. It will come back, just like it was before, and we're working to get it into the next stable channel release."
It's not a bug unless it was an accident.
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
The minute Google touches Gmail again to do any improvements, they're going to change the interface to their new cardifided bullshit, just like Google+ and Drive. I don't want them gimping the Gmail interface on the web with unremovable whitespace and hidden details.
Which is exactly what happens with Android (see: microSD support debate). I'm glad the Chromebook community is nascent enough to avoid the sheeple.
Even if you don't, others do. I read plenty of comments on the link in TFA where people explained their setups. Many users are using ext for its featureset, and don't need compatibility with Windows systems.
Show me the Lockheed device in production in the real world before i get excited about it. I have lived a lifetime of cold fusion promises.....
Good-bye
It bugs me when you describe the people that insist that wrenches stay wrenches as a 'tiny minority'.
Good-bye
This is true with one big caveat: the kernel still comes from the cromeOS partition, not the linux partition. I learned this the hard way with my chromebook....I could never get it to a 2.6 Kernel (never mind 3.x) because the system had actually booted the kernel from the chromeOS partition, but the rest of linux from my ubuntu partition.
yep. Just bought an Acer c720-3404 (i3/4GB model) and a 128GB SSD for it.
They're pushing cloud storage too hard IMNHO, and I took a look at their storage costs last night to find out how much that 100GB or whatever that gave me for would costs only to find that after 6m I could've bought a 2TB drive(desktop) or probably c. 1TB notebook hdd or c. 256GB SSD...
The c720 isn't that bad. Played stock Amazon instant vid/netflix then dev moded it. Didn't get around to croutoning it on an SD although I did go so far as prepping the sd, but since the ssd was supposed to be arriving soon decided to just skip it and swap in the ssd then crouton it.
The screen isn't nearly as bad as some of the reviews make it sound, nor is the keyboard, I just wish that they'd make a tinier one more in line with the old librettos and/or an i5 11.6".
Batt runtime seems to be close to what they advertise for me so far, c. 8h which along w/size and the ability to run linux either chrooted, internally(BIOS flash), or externally(USB or SD) to make it more useful. Chromeos isn't as bad as I was expecting, but I'm still just NOT a Chrome fan. Dev mode reportedly breaks netflix playback(not sure if it's fixable), but TBH I RARELY watch vid when not at home, and then just stream it through my roku 3 to TV or through desktop. (I haven't investigated it, but I have a suspicion that workarounds are available to allow netflix to play in devmode...)
It "boots" very fast, but dev mode throws in a monkey wrench as they have a pause screen that stays up for 30s, unless you ctrl-d by it, and if you hit spacebar accidentally(or some other fool does it on purpose) you get to go back to square one(like an android factory reset). ...now just to find the time to tear apart my new toy(voiding the warranty) and installing a useful sized ssd.
One thing that I will say, screen aside I just couldn't see paying what $1300? for the pixel. My Sager 7330 cost less(i7 4800MQ/16GB/765m/1920x1080 13.3"). 1920x1080 isn't quite as high res as the pixel, but at 13.3" it's my favorite screen on a notebook so far, bright, good color rep, etc. Better than my desktop display.
The C720 is somewhat less than that, but what do you expect for c. $360? or $200 if you go for the celery.
One thing I will say don't bother trying chrome://imageburner as it didn't work for me as in looks like it starts to work then does nothing, no error messages, nothing. Had to use their "standalone" recovery app to create a clean recovery image(need that for ssd install).
It bugs you that I said it? Or it bugs you that it's true?
Where did you hear this? I have a stock 3.16 kernel running on my Acer C720 Chromebook, plus all the hardware is fully supported by Linux
This Sig does not Exist.
Here are 2.6 and 3.4 kernels with Chromebook drivers:
http://www.chromebook-linux.co...
You don't have to use a kernel built for Chromebook, but it makes sense to in order to ensure you have the drivers you need, without a bunch of other drivers for raid cards and stuff that you don't have.
It occurred to me you might have run a chrooted environment, where you're running both ChromeOS AND the other Linux distribution simultaneously.
Yeah, a CPU can only run one kernel at a time without virtualization, so if you want to run two operating systems at once they'll share a kernel.
Its only true because people like you lack vision and prescience. Removing EXT 2/3/4 shows they have CHILDREN developing their OS. Few salty devs would do that.
Good-bye
Except this is from Lockheed. While I would not stop all other research Lockheed has a history of making things that most people think is impossible possible.
First production US jet fighter.
First aircraft to fly over 70,000ft "level flight".
First US mach 2 fighter.
First Spysat.
First Mach 3 aircraft.
First stealth aircraft.
I really would not dismiss this one. It is as least very interesting.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I use both; work on Linux all day, but when browsing on the couch I use a neat little Chromebook. Why not? (I like having access to a closed-down system with verified boot.)
[And yeah, I've also done the developer mode/full distro install thang. Can pop back in the SD card & go there again, if needed.]
All I know is, whoever this satorux@chormium.org is, he's the biggest dumbass on the ChromeOS team and should be asked to leave (or dropped). He clearly has no concept of who uses ChromeOS and should not be making decisions as to what features it has. He started the whole thread and kept defending the decision even when it was clear that it was going to hurt their development community.
down with chrome, down with chrome, down with chrome.
now, please.
In the IT department, I presume?
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
"OtherOS would be OtherOS all over again"
No!?!
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
No zombified, closed-down Linux for me. I will continue to use the real thing.
Please be sure to stop using your DVR, automobile, and the other 47 Linux systems you intereact with every day which don't offer you a bash prompt. :)
I do get what you're saying, but the purpose of a Chromebook is not the same as the purpose for the general-purpose Linux distro I'm typing this on.
https://chromium.googlesource....
Google supports running Chromium OS on any Chromebook. It basically has everything but a few plugins, which I believe you can install (though those are not FOSS).
I wouldn't say it is any less FOSS than something like the Linux Kernel if you don't de-blob it.
So they're great at killing and spying. They don't have a track record in doing 'good' things like providing cheap, clean energy.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
I guess. But WTF were you people thinking? That course of action was a not only a colossal blunder, it was an obviously colossal blunder. What twisted reasoning could possibly have made that seem like a good idea.?
Sad little person.
Spysats and spy aircraft save lives. The have prevented more wars than you can count. Sorry that that world is not all fairy farts and unicorn poop but the reality is that Lockheed's spy planes and spysats are what allowed the first arm limitation treaties and later arms reduction treaties.
Lockheed's greatest planes the U-2 and SR-71 never fired a single shot in anger.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Developer mode is often a pain to invoke. Oftentimes there's no way to boot developer mode by default -- you have to press a key combination to override the default, and you have to do it every single time you boot into developer mode. On the Chromebook Pixel it imposes a 30-second delay on you every time you boot into developer mode without pressing the key combination.
so... did you even read what I posted?
I think you're the poster child for why industry ignores us.
I don't use a dvr...I'm a cord cutter you insensitive clod!
ps: my car is an American piece of crap running windows.
Pps: I'll do what I want
OS is not selling...
Wake up! Laptops running ChromeOS have been topping best seller lists for years now.
I have exactly zero of those. And yes, I know where these things are found.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Maybe they could fix that while they are at it so I don't have to root my devices anymore?
Ext2/3/4 are very stable filesystems, and widely supported by the GNU/Linux community, why in the world they would not support them is anybody's guess. Thankfully they have reversed course and will continue its support.
If you have one of the models with a rotating disk rather than an SSD, the C720 is nearly identical to Windows systems that Acer sells. (Only the bootloader and the Google keyboard are different.) Even the SSD is bog-standard hardware, though Acer doesn't offer a Windows version of that particular platform with it. So it's not surprising that there would be no driver issues. The other Intel-based Chromebooks don't have exact Windows counterparts but also are unlikely to have driver issues.
ARM-based Chromebooks are another story. Since there are no ARM systems for full Windows, hardware support for that platform is more limited. Though I know that boot of a full Linux distribution has been done on the cheap Samsung ARM Chromebook, so it's not impossible.
The C710 had a terrible keyboard. The C720 is an improvement; not perfect but not awful either. Both have decent but not earthshaking TN screens. If you want a Chromebook with a good screen you want one of the HP models with an IPS display.
The Pixel was a statement product. I don't think Google had any expectation of selling a significant number of them. I doubt that the number sold matches the number that were issued to employees or given away at Google I/O.
the purpose of a Chromebook is not the same as the purpose for the general-purpose Linux distro I'm typing this on.
So which 10" laptops ship with a general-purpose Linux distro? Dell used to offer the Inspiron mini 1012, but it's since been discontinued.
For mobile usage, it skews even further towards the browser.
For me it skews the opposite way. My laptop is offline while I ride the city bus to and from work because otherwise, I'd have to pay another $400 a year recurring bill. So I surf while on Wi-Fi and code while offline.
Android has full support for a windowing system
True, but if you actually implement it, you are legally prohibited from shipping Google Play Store on any device you make or sell. The Android Compatibility Definition Document, published by Google, states that the window size presented to an application shall never change after installation on a device. This effectively implies that the windowing system shall implement an "all maximized all the time" policy. And if your device doesn't conform to the CDD, Google won't license Gapps to you.
it's only in the last couple of years that we have actually gotten there, through wider 3G/4G coverage
Which carries a substantial recurring fee. I already pay for Internet at home. Why should I have to pay again to be able to use my own computer while riding the city bus?
Why do you think centralizing computing power is such a bad thing?
Because as implemented, it restricts me from choosing with whom to centralize computing power.
And why would Google want to offer alternative data vendors on their platform?
Because a country's competition regulator may decide that Google has market power over operating systems that ship on laptop computers with 10" displays and thus require them to do so.
But for big data crunching tasks, compiling and the like, why should that [not] be centralized?
I see two reasons. For one thing, I've have to pay a cellular ISP beaucoup bucks to move the bits between my laptop on the bus and the service-as-a-software-substitute provider. For another, I don't necessarily want the service-as-a-software-substitute provider to be able to data-mine what I'm compiling. Finally, for a lot of projects I work on, it takes ten seconds or less to rebuild a project from make clean even on a 4-year-old laptop with a dinky little 1-core 2-thread Atom N450 CPU, and rebuilding with only a few changed files is even faster. It'd take at least that long to push the source over 3G to a SaaSS provider, wait for build, and pull down the binary, and that's if the SaaSS provider supports all the custom data conversion steps that my build process uses.
On the other hand, if you're just keeping a bunch of pages open every single session because you'll want to go back to them at some point, why not just save them as bookmarks instead?
Say I have a bunch of pages that I've opened in tabs, and then the browser crashes. When I restart the browser, I want the pages to reload completely so that I can keep reading them even after I lose Internet access. This usually happens when I put my laptop to sleep, board the city bus for work, and wake my laptop.
Have a look at Google("Linux in Laptops") and install one yourself. Yes, takes a bit of time, but you recover that by not having to clean the pre-installed machine of all unwanted "goodies" the manufacturer added. For example, putting Mint 17 on my Acer Netbook took 5 Minutes of work and 1 h of waiting.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Have a look at Google("Linux in Laptops") and install one yourself.
Should people try to avoid paying the Windows "tax"? Or should they be glad to get a copy of Windows to which to dual-boot in order to run those few essential apps that happen to be rated garbage in Wine?
Yes, takes a bit of time
A lot of which is spent beforehand to research hardware compatibility. For example, last time I checked, Linux could reliably boot on BIOS or on 64-bit EFI, not on 32-bit EFI with no BIOS fallback option. Wireless chipsets (WLAN and Bluetooth) might not be supported. Audio and OpenGL graphics might not work. Suspend might not work. I've had to deal with problems getting each of those to work under Linux on laptops, and Xubuntu still isn't letting me turn on Bluetooth in my present laptop.
After all, there's a basic text editor ;-)
So I've written code. Now I need to test it. Does Chrome Web Store have compilers and environments in which to run compiled code? Or would I essentially be stuck writing JavaScript for a web page and later hand-translating that to the language used by the target platform?
Mobile data plans are cheap as chips in most first-world countries
By "most first-world countries", do you include the United States or somewhere else where most able-bodied people born in the United States can easily qualify for a work visa? If so, to which countries are you referring?
plus odds are you'll have wifi access available in a lot more places than you'd think.
My laptop sees the beacons, but the bus has pulled off before it can finish associating, let alone transferring packets to and from the Internet. And I've found plenty of stores whose public Wi-Fi is limited to 30 minutes, after which the AP's captive portal enforces an hours-long cooldown period before the same MAC can regain an Internet connection. This hurts when I'm waiting for the roommate to finish shopping, eating, or whatever, or if the roommate has run into an old friend from her previous job.
But really, your use case falls outside of what a Chromebook is meant for.
Which is ultimately my point. Too many laptop makers disappoint me by selling only Chromebooks in the form factor I want, not something that better fits my use case.
Naw