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For Game Developers, It's About the Labor of Love
Nerval's Lobster writes With "GamerGate" and all the debates over who counts as a "gamer," it's easy to forget that games are created by people with a genuine love of the craft. Journalist Jon Brodkin sat down with Armin Ibrisagic, game designer & PR manager for Coffee Stain Studios, the Swedish studio that made Goat Simulator, to talk about why they built that game and how it turned into such a success. Brodkin also talked to Leszek Lisowski, founder of Wastelands Interactive, about the same topic. While these developers might debate with themselves (and others) over whether to develop games for hardcore gamers, or jump on the mobile "casual gaming" bandwagon, they'll ultimately in it because they love games — a small but crucial detail that seems too easy to forget these days.
"GamerGate" and all the debates over who counts as a "gamer,"
I heard vicious shouts that gamers were dead, and those didn't come from Gamergate . . .
"Labor of love" - right. That's why game developers are so exploited that EA got into trouble with CA labor laws.
You get together with a bunch of friends with drinks and snacks and play a game.
Fun to design.
Fun to play.
If you're more worried about your metrics, you're doing it wrong.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Really why bring that into a story that's about people who are passionate about creating great games. Gamergate is about people playing the victim card, and pulling a shakedown on an industry. Sad for use we made it work for them. Who cared about Sarkesian before this ?
it's easy to forget that games are created by people with a genuine love of the craft.
And it's precisely because people didn't forget, that they get rather upset when people criticize these labor of love and the people who play them as somehow promoting violence and misogyny.
I can't take "gamergate" seriously because it seems so staged and fake. The articles even seem forced.
Wait, so you're telling me that Goat Simulator was NOT an April Fools joke? Wow... there sure are a lot of fools out there.
and warner brothers was using slave labour in canada , montreal , quebec ...BUSTED
'nuff said
So, next time you get death threats against you and your family, I hope everyone dismisses you as a low-life playing the "victim card". Grow the fuck up.
It's also a labor of insanity. You're paid little, treated like dirt, and receive endless hate.
I think it's too easy to justify grueling jobs with bad work conditions and inadequate compensation by saying "Oh but the people who take them do the work out of loooove!" We do the same thing with teachers: Their jobs suck, their hours suck, their pay sucks, they deal with absurd bullshit, but all that is ok because allegedly, "they loooove kids and receive intrinsic rewards from their work."
We don't think this way about accountants or dentists. We don't expect them to loooove replacing fillings or mastering actuarial tables. We pay them so that their jobs are worthwhile even without the love. And I wish we would apply this standard to all jobs. A coding job where you produce games should be compensated like a coding jobs where you produce financial software, or anything else.
The -gate in Watergate technically isn't a suffix; it's the actual name of the hotel. Or what other case of widespread corruption are you thinking of that was almost exclusively referred to as a -gate?
From the article: "In both cases, the developers suggest the best strategy is to make games they're passionate about." But in order to make games you're passionate about, sometimes you have to "pay your dues" to the incumbents by developing games you're not passionate about in order to gain access to platforms suitable for games you're passionate about.
Startup studios not staffed by long-time veterans of the mainstream video game industry have been limited in what platforms they can code for: either PC (Windows, OS X, GNU/Linux) or touch-driven mobile devices (iOS and Android). And the limits of these platforms in turn limit the choice of genre. PC isn't the best for "party" style games designed around sharing the screen with IRL friends because few people think to put a PC in the living room. And without directional controls and trigger buttons usable by an application, touch-driven mobile devices severely limit the controls that can be implemented: a platform game essentially has to be an endless runner like Canabalt or Temple Run instead of an exploration-oriented Metroidvania. I'm aware of exceptions, such as a home theater PC (hi Hairyfeet) or a mobile device with buttons (Xperia Play phones and JXD tablets), but I've been repeatedly told they're nowhere near popular enough to provide enough sales to sustain a studio.
But lately I've been told that PlayStation seems to be the best family of platforms to which a startup developer can port games in genres traditionally associated with consoles. Sony Computer Entertainment has been courting indie developers with recent steps to make the developer approval process closer to that of iOS, such as the Pub Fund for worthwhile timed-exclusive games and the Developer Program for PlayStation Suite. Or are people who play indie games also people who "nevar forget" about Sony's past (XCP, Other OS, George Hotz, etc.)?
It's about unethical journalists. And those same journalists have been trying for weeks now to deflect this focus away from them and pretend it's about sexism, changing gamer culture, etc. so they themselves don't have to answer for a decades-long games journalism tradition of "journalists" being in bed with the very companies they're supposed to be covering (through advertising, bribes, press releases disguised as "previews," etc.)
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
If Nathan Grayson, Patricia Hernandez, et al were Republicans, Gamergate would be handled exactly like the journalism scandal that it is. The corrupt writers would lose their jobs, their employers would acknowledge the seriousness of the situation and at least attempt to convince us that that it wouldn't happen again, and the rest of their ilk would be watched like a hawk for evidence of similar transgressions for a long, long time.
But no. Because the perpetrators were extreme leftists, they're afraid that the scandal might give folks like Fox News and Limbaugh political ammo*, so there was a complete media blackout, the likes of which I've never seen before (not a SINGLE article detailing the corruption, on ANY tech/gaming site, for a week). Another part of the blackout was blanket censorship in user forums/comments, up to and including reddit and--no bullshit--4chan. IMO this censorship of users merely discussing the scandal is still the most oppressive (and damning) anti-GG measure of all.
And then when the blackout didn't work, they colluded in a synchronized shotgun blast of articles to slander their core audience and intimidate any dissenters among them. The long-running smear campaign that began with the "Gamers are Dead" articles continues to this day, and the popularity of Gamergate is the long-running response to it. Every criticism and call for integrity is met with completely irrelevant accusations of misogyny and right-wing motivations. Gamers are (rightly) astonished and appalled to see corruption defended so vigorously (and uniformly).
And now that the smear campaign isn't working either, anonymous threats are used as an excuse to again slander the movement (this time as terrorists) and completely ignore the corruption. So of course as the smear campaign ramped up, the popularity of Gamergate ramped up accordingly--I think it's over 100K tweets per day now. And the gaming press, having addressed almost none of its ethics issues (to say nothing of its contempt for the gaming community), regularly feigns disbelief that Gamergate hasn't "burned out" yet in one-sided opinion pieces that, if anything, more than prove the need for the movement.
The crazy thing is that Gamergate itself is largely leftist. I am right-wing on many issues, but I've been impressed by (and learned something from) the integrity of the vast majority of left-leaning individuals in Gamergate. They just want journalism they can trust. They want the bad eggs removed, even if the bad eggs share many of their political stances. They understand that circling the wagons to protect "the cause" and "do good work" is likely to result in far more harm to the cause in the long run.
I see some of the mainstream media has now taken notice, and is just as happy as the tech press to pretend the journalistic lapses and cover up never happened, and to slander Gamergate as right-wing misogynist terrorists, all to support the invented narrative. It's an all too familiar story to those of us who've seen the mainstream media portray DVD ripping as grand theft auto, net neutrality as communism, or Jack Thompson as a defender of morality. But in this case, unbelievably, even here on Slashdot there hasn't been a Gamergate article yet that doesn't go out of its way to frame the whole issue in terms of misogyny and harrassment (much less an article that's pro- or even neutral). Is slashdot politically motivated to misrepresent this issue? The question is moot, because all those articles got 700-1200 replies each, so the clickbaiting is motivation enough. As far as we know, slashdot's editors are kicking themselves for not praising Jack Thompson years ago as a hero activist.
* not an invalid fear, but you have to cross that bridge when you come to it. If you try to pre-emptively murder the truth then you get no sympathy when it blows up in your face.
Back in the days of print, sure, get a dozen mags in your pocket and you can pass your crap off as gold, for a while anyway. But now? There's a billion gamer websites and blogs, and anybody posting a fluffy review will get eaten alive by their readers, pull that a couple times and you're credibility is toast.
I'm not asking rhetorically, I honestly don't know, I don't follow the gaming press much. I don't see how they can have enough influence to be worth paying off.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
On the contrary, when a job is paid too much, people are doing it for the sake of money and not because they love to do it. Think of the politicians. They don't care that much about ideas, they are into opinions, and more favorably the ones that will get them the cash. That's why we get all these crappy laws.
Think of a fireworker paid a million dollars. At that rate, you'll get a bunch of real assholes that will do anything to get the job because of the money, but when the day comes they have to risk their life to save your ass, they'll just flee saying "f**k, that's not worth it".
So while I totally agree with you on the low pay justified by passion bullshit, my point is that we should not rely on high pay to expect the jobs to be done correctly. A job is done correctly iff the guy in charge is happy with his job done correctly.
Video of some good progressive thrash music
There is a very good reason that people in high passion jobs have shit compensation. They're easily replaceable.
#FirstWorldProblems.
There is no journalism scandal.
You have:
1. GamerGate nuts focussing on a developer who an ex-boyfriend with "issues" claimed was sleeping with journalists to get better reviews. Turned out the journalist has never written about any of the developer's games. GG participants changed subject, claimed the issue was her sex life (who the hell cares? Jesus!). So: SCANDAL ONE: NOT ABOUT JOURNALISM.
2. GamerGaters then get upset that a "feminist" has written an editorial claiming that the games industry is catering for a non-existent market if they insist on aiming games at some kind of crude stereotype the industry refers to as a "gamer". GGers rant, rave, call feminist names, a minority make death threats with mixed reactions from the GG "community" - some condemnation, but plenty of victim blaming - and even persuade Intel to drop advertising with said publication. No hint anyone in industry paid for article, no hint article bettered anyone financially beyond advertising dollars and author's royalties. Article very clearly an earnestly and honestly expressed opinion. SCANDAL TWO: NOT ABOUT JOURNALISM.
3. With women developers in particular feeling that the viciousness of the campaign against the feminist in #2 crossed the line frequently into misogyny, and with many also concerned that anyone expressing a pro-diversity point of view was being labeled, as an insult, by the term "Social Justice Warrior", some start to speak out. One, who had even been told by a GameGater that if she didn't like games she should go off and write her own (she, uh, does) retweeted an amusing image meme making fun of some of the more bizarre quotes and positions she's been challenged by. Within days she's the victim of serious death threats, and has to flee her home with her family. GamerGaters generally answer that (1) it wasn't us, (2) we don't believe in that kind of thing, and (3) she was asking for it. In this case, no journalism is involved. SCANDAL THREE: NOT ABOUT JOURNALISM.
So, there are the THREE major events in GamerGate industry. Not one involves journalism, albeit the first kinda did for the 30 seconds it took to discover that while a journalist was involved, no journalism took place.
It's not about journalism. It never was. Stop pretending otherwise. And if you're going to pretend it is, choose a new hashtag, and start tweeting stuff about, you know, actual journalism scandals. Clue: the first time you tweet some whine under that hashtag about "SJWs", you've probably stopped talking about journalism.
A job is done correctly iff the guy in charge is happy with his job done correctly.
This is a reliable way to fuck up a software project
"Labor of love" - right. That's why game developers are so exploited that EA got into trouble with CA labor laws.
Don't confuse the worker bees with the corporate machine. Sure, big daddy EA says we need this years installment of SuperFancyUltraTeamShooter 2XXX and through management and deadlines you'll hit a deathmarch.
That doesn't explain why the worker bee programmer is at EA specifically. Could be to put food on the table and it pays better than whatever alternative they had. Could be to get another data point on the resume. Or it could be that, despite the long hours and almost slave labor, they genuinely love making games and seeing their name on the list of credits.
From everything I've read about the subject:
The journalist did mention her game. It wasn't a review but was definite positive exposure for a game that would not have gotten if they were not close friends. The reason her sex life became an issue was that it seemed to involve a lot of journalists and marketing people. Conflicts of interests and what not. The sex aspect was central but not because of the sex; more the close personal relationships (which sex is). Of course there were a lot of jokes about it. Additionally there was a bunch of stuff about journalists funding games and judges from some indie game competition having monetary reasons to want certain games to win.
Is your second point about the 10 or so articles put out by separate publications that totally aren't colluding to write their own narrative declaring that "gamers are dead" and everyone that disagrees with them is part of that group? I can see why you think that's not about journalism... Or is it about the mailing list they were all a part of discussing stories and what to print?
The interesting thing is those female developers all seemed to have friendships with the people implicated in the whole ordeal. Other female developers and gamers that weren't part of that same friend-group don't seem to share your one-size-fits-all-women mentality. Lady makes fun of people but it's harassment when they responded and made fun of her? How do you expect people to respond when you accuse them of something they didn't do. Should they not say "we didn't do that"? None of the threats have been shown to come from this junk at all. In fact, from what I've read any identified threats have come from third-party assholes just trying to stir shit up. It is always advised not to advertise death threats because that just gives the threatener what they want and encourages more but a few of these women seem more interested in broadcasting their threats than reporting them to the police. Is this what you mean by "they're asking for it"?
The SJW thing in ancillary to the journalism. The journalists happen to be part of the "SJW" clique and used trigger words like "misogyny" to get people's brains to shut down so they could deflect blame. The whole thing has a striking similarity to the "donglegate" fiasco from a few years back.
It's not Intel's fight. They understood there is not good in this and they walked away.
1. Yes, he did. It was just a "preview" of the game and not a "review" of the game so you win on semantics, I guess. Congrats.
By "preview" you mean he once mentioned the game exists, right?:
It's. Not. About. Journalism.
3.1. It wasn't GamerGate sending death threats. It was troll website Something Awful. We know because they used the exact same script against a GamerGater! After getting caught they deleted the thread to hide the evidence.
I don't even have an answer for that. There are so many things wrong with that explanation I don't know where to begin. BTW my comment missed out the bit between our developer friend making jokes, and her fleeing her own home. Should I write more detail there? Or would that be vaguely embarrassing and suggest that it's somewhat unlikely that a humor website was seriously involved in any way?
Anyone who does it for the money will never do it as good as those who do it because they love it. I know a business major who is learning Swift to program apps on apple products to make money, because he heard of some guy creating the "WhatsApp" and getting $$$. He wants to be the next Mark Zuckerberg, the next famous guy, etc. People who are like this I lose respect for, trying to get rich and make a celebrity of yourself shows how self absorbed you are
Yes, it is about journalism, no matter how much you want to play the "woman victimized by evil men" card.
And "humor website?" Are you kidding me? Something Awful is probably best known around here for Goon Squad and trolling Eve Online players. They also troll basically every other MMO they can (even ones without PvP) and - guess what? - they're also trolling both sides of GamerGate.
No GamerGate supporter has sent actual death threats. Sorry to burst your bubble.
ex-boyfriend with "issues" claimed was sleeping with journalists to get better reviews.
Can all the mindless antis at least get this one piece of information straight? Quinn's boyfriend never accused her of sleeping with journalists for any sort of career advancement. The only times he even mentions the possibility, AFAIK, is to dispell the rumor in comments.
I know it's quick and easy character assassination, more so since there's so much misinformation being spread around and every large media site that covers this attempts to throw out lies, but please stop.
Purely supply and demand. The amount of people who go in computer science or what have you to start making games is crazy. Stupid mini-games aside, the effort/knowledge/skill it takes to make even an average game is absurd compared to most other type of applications, yet programmers flock to that industry in droves. That lets companies be more picky.
This is in contrast to average, more business-oriented fields (law, banking, data, etc), that can be interesting if you're into that stuff, but doesn't have the same kind of appeal. Very very few people get out of school thinking "Damn, i can't wait to write the next stack to handle SWIFT messages!". Thats why developers working for big banks in NYC make a crazy amount of money.
There's no money to be made in a field a lot of people find fun/easy/exciting, because too many people are willing to do it for peanuts (there's a reason so many open source projects have terrible UI... very few people get excited about UX development). Find a niche that interests you if you want to make money.
You can't be a special snowflake if you look like every other snowflake.
Labor of love? Goatse simulator? You are freaking me out.
Table-ized A.I.
Oh for the love of... isn't it awfully convenient how when something negative is done, it's somehow not done by the group? So tell me, how does one become part of Gamergate? Is there an initiation ceremony, certifications, physical qualification, etc? Of course not, only think you need to do is to post something in the name of the 9 letter hashtag. So, yea Gamergate is a crazy easy thing to be part of, and as a result, it's partially made up of legit crazies and trolls. Just accept that and move on. Even groups that require more dedication (eg. feminist activists) have there share of crazies. Gamergate with no way to weed out the nutcases and it's low bar for entry has things even worse.
That's why y'all are harassing the women, and not the corrupt journalists, right? The entire movement has been spearheaded by misogynists from the very beginning.
Brianna Wu: *retweets meme*
GamerGaters: *dox her, send multiple violent rape & death threats*
Man, what a double standard those SJW's have, calling the latter "harrassment" and not the former! It's clear that they're of the same scope and intensity, right?
Literally identical death threats - word for word ignoring names and addresses - were sent to GamerGate supporters.
Weirdly you've never heard about those and no one "had to flee their house" over them, probably because they were directed at men who are used to the crap you get on the Internet.
The death threats are coming from trolls who want to smear gamers and promote drama. Drama that Brianna Wu was promoting as well, up until the same trolls targeting GG got her too.
Needs fact-checking, this boarders on PR.
What all this has shown me is how a lot of the major video game site journalists despise their audience. Just like the XBox One launch and backlash and the Mass Effect backlash the gaming press have never been on our side. Tht's what is truly sad about Gamergate.
Gamersgate.com is a website that runs crappy sales and you may find 1 decent deal per year on.
Gamergate is a new buzzword as of August 2014, which according to Wikipedia:
"It concerns ingrained issues of sexism and misogyny in the gaming community, as well as journalistic ethics in the online gaming press, particularly conflicts of interest between video game journalists and developers."
expanding the scope of a really stupid non-story, are we?
Who the hell cares?
I care. When tiger woods slept with a bunch of sluts that was big news too.
He had to go apologize, and for what? It's not like he raped anyone.
I also got pissed off when that guy in into the wild fucked the girl even though he knew the other guy was into her.
It's. Not. About. Journalism.
Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true.
Please explain.
From my experience in the software industry, good managers are worth their weight in gold.
And if you thought I was joking about the mod bombing, here it comes. Wait for the majority of moderators to move on, then nuke all the comments against you to ensure that anyone who disagrees with you won't be heard again. Have one account mod up as funny (no karma) and another mod down to further tank karma.
And the SJWs like to pretend they stand for "rights." Just none of the rights in the Bill of Rights.
Developers have been receiving death threats long before GamerGate, and the offender in this case does not seem to associate with GG in any way. Did you also blame Saddam for 9/11?
Also, there is reason to doubt the veracity of the particular threat she published, since Wu has in fact been caught red-handed running a false-flag operation to discredit GG. She actually publicly asked her followers on twitter to follow to her "sockpuppet" account.
Teachers are not easily replaceable, and yet for the work they do their compensation is abysmal.
Their problem is a different one. There's many factors involved as to why people become teachers, and why they stay in the profession. Simply though, they stay because of job security, and the knowledge/fear that changing careers into a different profession would be very hard (and in the short-term at least involve a pay cut).
The developers, artists, and even the QA staff love their jobs and work very hard. It is the evil publishing companies with bad management and evil treatment of the staff that needs to change. Publish a new game and lay-off 75% of the staff. The creatives quit and move on. Happens all the time. How anyone would want to work in the game industry is a wonder, if they do work in the industry many quit after the first ship-date.
The indie market is different. I am talking about the mainstream classic game publishers.
Just ask John.
I don't want to understate that doxing is wrong but there is a difference between a dox of a person that wants to stay anonymous and one that uses their real name and has all of their personal info out in the open.
The double standard is that "gamergate" is supposed to constantly denounce all these things that aren't coming from any of the main voices (or that can be pinned to any of the voices at all) yet you have prominent people in the implicated media companies recommending contacting people's employers to get them fired. Celebrating ruining careers and claiming to be a "megaphone" so don't cross them.
The double standard is people on one side have to constantly denounce death threats that they aren't making but nobody demands the implicated media companies do the same.
It is almost as if the side with the more powerful media presence is trying to keep the other side fighting an uphill battle of bad press...
That's right. Which is why I documented the history of GamerGate and pointed out that all three major events were unrelated to any actual journalistic corruption.
You can't just jump in with the last line of a post, you have to read the whole thing. If this were about journalistic corruption, the three women targetted by GamerGate wouldn't have been targetted, and we'd be hearing about actual cases of, you know, corrupt journalism.
Instead we have three women subject to horrific harassment, and the term "SJW" used constantly as a label for those who are on the other side. Every time you use the phrase SJW perjoratively, you admit that this is not about journalism.
Literally every time anyone says "I don't A, but B", they mean B but are just too cowardly to come right out and say it.
So why don't you go and take your concern elsewhere and fuck off, you misogyny apologist.
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
And of course that would have to be " ... they mean A".
Fuck it. I'm out of this discussion, the stupidity is catching.
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
You seem like a rational and easy to deal with person. Not inflammatory in the slightest.
But I'm glad you made this post so some people here at Slashdot can see exactly how "misogyny" is used to shut down people's brains and how it has been tacked on to "gamergate". Repeat a lie enough times and people seem to think there must be at least some truth to it.
I am a "misogyny apologist" (lol) for not siding 100% with journalists and hence lumped in with the "rampant" misogyny. The journalists did behave in unethical manners and there was a scandal (hence the -gate suffix). There is really no evidence of misogyny other than mean things said to a few individual women that seem to have a penchant for histrionic outbursts. Anything less than benevolent sexism appears to be misogyny to some people. Which is odd coming from a group that claims to be feminist.
You can keep saying it's about journalism as much as you want, but until you actually start talking about journalism, rather than talking about talking about journalism, we won't believe you. And you can pretend it's not about victimizing uppity women who encourage people to, or they themselves, write games for audiences broader than some unpleasant gamer stereotype as much as you like, but as long as you smear women who do this, as long as you use the term "SJW" as a pejorative, as long as you refuse to talk about journalism, and spend all of your time talking about how terrible it is people can advocate games for women, we'll make the obvious judgement.
As for Something Awful, sorry, no. They're not involved. Neither, FWIW, are the following:
- The Onion's AV Club
- The guy who refreshes bbspot.com's home page every day hoping something new will appear
- The Disqus Cracked.com section
- People on Twitter who follow Rob Delaney
- Rob Delaney
- rec.humor
- rec.humor.funny
No idea where this decision by one or two #GamerGate participants to attack Something Awful came from, but you're idiots.
The reason why articles about Gamergate revolve around the issue of misogyny and harassment is because the whole 'movement' started from a purely misogynistic and harassment based motive. You can't frame it in any other terms no matter what you try to build on top of that foundation. There were plenty of game journo shenanigans happening before ZQ and Sarkeesian that probably were even more egregious and shameful than anything dug up by GG in recent weeks. But as soon as a couple of people get butthurt that there seems to be a movement in the industry that's trending away from their narrow and frankly bigoted demographic, they get to work on fabricating conspiracy theory level corruption in the industry to obfuscate their actual intention: to harass people for having the temerity to question their entertainment and by some sad proxy, their identity.
I'mma call a spade a spade. If anybody is supporting Gamergate, he (because I don't think reasonable people of any other gender would) is supporting everything wrong with the gaming culture as it stands today.
We are talking about journalism. We've always been talking about journalism.
Stop listening to the SJW talking points, stop paying attention to the SA trolls and their attempts to wind you up, and pay attention to what GamerGate supporters are actually saying.
It's always been about journalism. Yes, some of the corrupt journalists are women. But, of course, if anyone complains about a woman in SJW-land, it's "misogyny" and the whole conversation comes crashing down.
None of the three major events in GamerGate have anything to do with journalism. I've pointed that out. You've not pointed out a single case where GamerGate has been associated with any actual criticism of actual journalism.
If you want people to think this is about journalism, not uppity women, stop attacking "SJWs". Every time you mention SJWs you are nailing one more coffin into your argument that it's about journalism and not about uppity women. Every. Single. Time.
I only listen to trolls from ICanHazCheezeburger, sorry. (Although maybe the Comedy Central website is behind this! DAILYSHOGHAZIII!!!!")
I do. That's the problem. You say it's about journalism, and then when pressed to actually issue a criticism you:
- Attack a game developer for sleeping with a journalist who didn't review her work or in any other way act unprofessionally
- Attack a feminist for writing something feminist.
- Attack another game developer for making fun of people who were attacking her for being female.
You say it's about journalism, but it's not about journalism. I am listening. That's the problem.
Yeah. You were attacking women for "corrupt journalism". Right. Two video game authors who are not journalists, and one feminist academic who produced an accessible analysis of sexism in games who wrote an article on video game marketing.
And you haven't really done any serious attacks on male journalists. Not even the one involved in pseudo-scandal #1.
Again: if this were about journalism, you'd be talking about journalism, not talking about talking about journalism. If this wasn't about women, you'd not be using the SJW tag to describe the "enemy".
Yes, the "three major events" that YOU made up are - not surprisingly - cherry-picked to prove your point. Except not really since the first one involves journalistic corruption (sex for coverage), the second one was SJWs attacking gamers in order to distract people from the actual corruption happening in 1, and the third was a false flag you fell for.
The information's out there, you just have to PAY ATTENTION TO IT. There's plenty in this very thread, just read the comments and follow the links.
And you haven't really done any serious attacks on male journalists. Not even the one involved in pseudo-scandal #1.
You mean besides organizing a boycott of Kotaku and other similar sites? I guess that doesn't count, though.
Remembering that as far as anyone objective can tell, the "death threats" related to #1 never actually happened, and the "death threats" in #3 were literally word-for-word sent to GG-supporters.
I remember a time when it was ok for men to have balls and women to have ovaries. I think I also remember each gender being celebrated for and proud of their differences.
Full disclosure: I'm a straight cis male, and if that makes me guilty of being misogynistic due to the way I was born, I'm okay with that.
Oh, why are these tumblr-tech issues here, and not simply relegated to boingboing?
I made them up? They didn't happen?
That's an outright lie. In addition, the developer not the journalist was the one attacked.
A second outright lie. Actually, several, rolled into one. Nobody "attacked gamers", though one feminist who critiques videogames attacked publishers for going after "gamers", a stereotype. And there was no corruption in 1.
Oh yes, by MAD Magazine, right? Or was it The Beano? I can't remember. I'll have to watch this Adam Baldwin guy's (remember I said there was quite a bit I left out between our heroine retweeting an attack on sexist attacks on her made by GamerGate proponents, and her being driven out of her home?) stand-up at some point, he must be a hoot.
No there isn't. No GG proponent has given an actual example of a journalistic ethics scandal that GamerGate has actually addressed, not in this thread or any other.
No, it doesn't. You're describing action being taken against a publisher, not criticism being issued against a male journalist who performed a violation of ethics.
You really live in an alternate reality, don't you?
Give me a SINGLE example of GamerGate, at the same level of hysteria as they attacked in the three examples I gave, where:
1. The scandal was actually an ethical violation by a journalist. A publisher gave a journalist X to write Y. That kind of thing. Not "We published something that made someone upset", a real scandal.
2. The journalist was male.
3. The journalist was the one who was publicly criticized by GamerGate.
You can't, can you? And here's the funny thing: you and I can come up with examples of "shit that happened" that are 1+2. Lots of them. We've known about great reviews being written for terrible companies because of financial interests for a long time.
And if GamerGate was about journalistic corruption, they'd certainly have plenty of material to work from. But instead virtually every post from every GamerGate defender here, instead of attacking journalists, attacks "SJWs". Wonder why?
Yes, just ignore all the evidence that contradicts your point. Again. There are plenty of links in the comments of this article, do your own homework.
And it's kind of hard to separate SJWs from the journalists when the journalists are themselves SJWs!
Actually, everybody or nearly everybody involved here played dirty.
BTW, anybody who's not an SWJ should be ashamed of that fact (and won't get into Christian paradise as the Christ was crucified for being a SWJ)... but I'm not sure that living-room SWJ* are not worst than those who do not even pretend to care.
(*) How do you translate "guerillero de salon"?
I'm not ignoring evidence. I'm not seeing any evidence, none has been presented to me. I would assume, quite reasonable, that there almost certainly isn't any evidence. If there was, you'd tell me what I'm "ignoring".
All I asked was for one example. You can't even give me that. The SJW-Feminist-Games Industry-Journalism-Illuminati-The Onion conspiracy seems to have no problem coming up with examples when asked, but you do.
BTW, and I really didn't want to mention this, but don't you think there might be a problem if you guys are so awful, you even got kicked out of 4chan? That's like being kicked out of NAMBLA for being too abusive towards children, or out of the KKK for being too racist.
According to Wikipedia, with a bunch of cites so I assume it's verified:
References are:
So it does appear to be demonstrably exposure for a game unrelated to the relationship between Grayson and Quinn.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.