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We Are Running Out of Sand

HughPickens.com writes John R. Gillis writes in the NYT that to those of us who visit beaches only in summer, beaches seem as permanent a part of our natural heritage as the Rocky Mountains but shore dwellers know that beaches are the most transitory of landscapes, and sand beaches the most vulnerable of all. Today, 75 to 90 percent of the world's natural sand beaches are disappearing, due partly to rising sea levels and increased storm action, but also to massive erosion caused by the human development of shores. The extent of this global crisis is obscured because so-called beach nourishment projects attempt to hold sand in place (PDF) and repair the damage by the time summer people return, creating the illusion of an eternal shore. But the market for mined sand in the U.S. has become a billion-dollar annual business, growing at 10 percent a year since 2008. Interior mining operations use huge machines working in open pits to dig down under the earth's surface to get sand left behind by ancient glaciers.

One might think that desert sand would be a ready substitute, but its grains are finer and smoother; they don't adhere to rougher sand grains, and tend to blow away. As a result, the desert state of Dubai brings sand for its beaches all the way from Australia. Huge sand mining operations are emerging worldwide, many of them illegal, happening out of sight and out of mind, as far as the developed world is concerned. "We need to stop taking sand for granted and think of it as an endangered natural resource," concludes Gillis. "Beach replenishment — the mining and trucking and dredging of sand to meet tourist expectations — must be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, with environmental considerations taking top priority. Only this will ensure that the story of the earth will still have subsequent chapters told in grains of sand."

174 of 264 comments (clear)

  1. This is rich! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Selling sand to an Arab!! Hah, now I've heard it all.

    What's next? Selling snow to an Eskimo?

    1. Re:This is rich! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Selling sand to an Arab!! Hah, now I've heard it all.

      What's next? Selling snow to an Eskimo?

      Well, the snow where Eskimos live is much finer, smoother, and tends to blow away, so they have to import a better snow for their igloo needs.

    2. Re:This is rich! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A little off topic but: Eskimos actually have many words for different types of snow, and only can use certain types for igloos.

    3. Re:This is rich! by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is largely a myth. The Inuit languages are composite, meaning you can build "new" words by combining parts that would be separate words in other languages. So they have base words for snow, slush, drifts, etc just like most languages do. But then they have modifiers for wet, dry, fine, blown, falling, etc that get tacked on to form a new word but the same modifier can be tacked on to other root words just as well. In other words, there's very little difference between the Inuit word for "fine, dry snow blowing in the wind" and the English phrase "fine, dry snow blowing in the wind".

    4. Re:This is rich! by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Sure, but on the other hand nobody but a novelist or a lonely weather station operator would bother uttering the phrase "fine, dry snow blowing in the wind". They'd just say "it's snowing."

    5. Re:This is rich! by pla · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sure, but on the other hand nobody but a novelist or a lonely weather station operator would bother uttering the phrase "fine, dry snow blowing in the wind". They'd just say "it's snowing."

      Know how I can tell you don't live somewhere that requires you to remove that fine dry blowing drifting pooling pain-in-the-ass snow from your driveway before work the next morning?

      / Though I'll take that over wet, sticky, clumping snow with a crust of ice any day! I might need to clear it three times, but it goes easy each time.

    6. Re:This is rich! by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Heh. Colorado gets snow, but the sun usually takes care of the blowy light stuff as long as you remove the heavy accumulation. But woe to any man whose driveway is on the north side of the house and stays in perpetual shadow.

    7. Re:This is rich! by sexconker · · Score: 1

      This is largely a myth. The Inuit languages are composite, meaning you can build "new" words by combining parts that would be separate words in other languages. So they have base words for snow, slush, drifts, etc just like most languages do. But then they have modifiers for wet, dry, fine, blown, falling, etc that get tacked on to form a new word but the same modifier can be tacked on to other root words just as well. In other words, there's very little difference between the Inuit word for "fine, dry snow blowing in the wind" and the English phrase "fine, dry snow blowing in the wind".

      This is largely a myth. The Inuit languages are like any other language, and have plenty of synonyms and near synonyms. Further, snow is an integral part of their native habitat, and there are many distinct types of it, just as there are distinct types of bodies of water in the English language (sea, ocean, river, brook, stream, puddle, pond, lake, marsh, swap, etc.).

      I can make up plausible bullshit too without referencing any words in the fucking language I'm claiming to correct people on too.

    8. Re:This is rich! by swillden · · Score: 1

      Sure, but on the other hand nobody but a novelist or a lonely weather station operator would bother uttering the phrase "fine, dry snow blowing in the wind". They'd just say "it's snowing."

      Spoken like a man who doesn't live in an area where snow is a frequent and persistent phenomenon. I guarantee you that anyone who does finds occasion to distinguish between fine snow, large flake snow, dry snow, wet snow, crusty snow, icy snow, blowing snow and many combinations of those.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    9. Re:This is rich! by lordofthechia · · Score: 3, Funny

      only can use certain types for igloos.

      Nobody wants to be the owner of a yellow igloo.

      --
      Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
    10. Re:This is rich! by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 1

      Selling a Big Mac to an American? I don't get the joke.

    11. Re:This is rich! by quenda · · Score: 2

      Selling sand to an Arab!! Hah, now I've heard it all.

      What's next? Selling snow to an Eskimo?

      No. But Australia exports camels to the Arabs for racing stock.
      https://www.google.com.au/#q=a...

    12. Re:This is rich! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    13. Re:This is rich! by kbg · · Score: 2

      Iceland also has many words in their language describing different types of snow.
      See for example: http://blogs.transparent.com/i...

    14. Re:This is rich! by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Skiers & snowboarders have the most terms for different types of snow.

    15. Re:This is rich! by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      And just to clarify for people who don't know:

      Fine snow is light and easy to shovel, but tends to blow right back where you shoveled it from leading to a string of obscenities as your shoveled path disappears.

      Wet snow is very heavy and can hurt your back shoveling it but at least stays where you put it. Plus, it is good for snowballs which you can throw at people who aren't shoveling their fair share.

      If you have ice and snow? Get ready to slip and slide as you shovel.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    16. Re:This is rich! by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Those are your own numbers, dipshit.
      I stated that I'd love to see the moron repost his same "all is well" comment in 10 days after case in the US skyrocketed.
      It was only 7 days before cases in the US skyrocketed, and no one with a brain would dare to repeat his retarded comment about how Ebola can't spread in the US.
      Keep trying though.

    17. Re:This is rich! by Dahan · · Score: 1

      It was only 7 days before cases in the US skyrocketed, and no one with a brain would dare to repeat his retarded comment about how Ebola can't spread in the US. Keep trying though.

      When did the cases in the US skyrocket? The number has always been extremely low. It's currently at 1, and the 21-day monitoring period for those in contact with the Dallas nurses ends tomorrow. Face it, your perverse wish for an Ebola outbreak in the US didn't come true. While I know you're disappointed, the rest of us are glad to see Ebola on the decline.

    18. Re:This is rich! by dj245 · · Score: 2

      Well, you joke, but fine sand is no fun at a beach. On Galveston's East Beach, for example, the sand is very fine. Up on the beach it is not bad, and the dry sand feels pretty good on the feet. If that same sand is wet though, it is no fun at all. It feels like ocean bottom ooze or muck. Fill up a bucket with this wet sand, and you can't pour it out no matter how hard you try. It has to be washed out of the bucket with large amounts of water, and even that isn't easy. It becomes almost like wet concrete in the bucket, but if you DO manage to get it out, it won't build a very good sandcastle, at least with my amateur sand-castling skills. It's no fun to play in if you are a child. My son got very frustrated with it.

      A quality beach needs good sand and it seems like they like a quality beach in the middle east.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    19. Re:This is rich! by Air-conditioned+cowh · · Score: 1

      With scary headlines like this there is certainly a fantastic opportunity to sell insurance there. I can imagine the sales pitch now, "This time you were lucky, it was the wrong type of sand, but..."

    20. Re:This is rich! by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      Selling sand to an Arab!! Hah, now I've heard it all.

      What's next? Selling snow to an Eskimo?

      That's not all. The local sand is too round to make good concrete, so they have to import sand to build stuff, too.

    21. Re:This is rich! by Stoutlimb · · Score: 1

      I've lived in the arctic. Everyone talks about fine, dry snow blowing in the wind, English speakers or otherwise. That stuff is nasty, it will blow into your house through the tiniest of cracks. I didn't even know the weather stripping on my door was slightly damaged, but on a snowy night I found a small snowdrift inside my house next to my front door. I've lived all over Canada before, and even to me this stuff was alien. Construction in the arctic is drastically different because of fine, dry snow blowing in the wind. Any crack at all in your house, no matter how small, will cause snow to accumulate inside, which can cause major damage if not discovered and repaired. Vented attics, common everywhere else in Canada, are impossible in the high arctic. Fine, dry snow blowing in the wind is the honey badger of snows.

  2. Life's a Beach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    and then you blow away.

  3. Gotta watch those promises by penguinoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When God promised to make Abraham's descendents as numerous as the sand on the seashore, Abraham never thought to ask whether that meant he gets lots of descendents or that the sand on the seashore would be gone. As they say, when you assume you make an ass out of you and me.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    1. Re:Gotta watch those promises by turp182 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe it was a proposition, based on the conservation of natural resources. Say, if Abraham's descendants were to protect the beaches, their numbers could be nigh limitless. But, if those descendants were to cause the destruction of the sand on the seashore, maybe god would go a little "Old Testament" on them.

      Further, I'm not sure of god's position on natural beach erosion and its effects on population.

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    2. Re:Gotta watch those promises by xaotikdesigns · · Score: 1
      Assumption makes an ass out of you and Mption.

      The u is already used, so you can't use it again.

      --
      XDInd
    3. Re:Gotta watch those promises by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      God: the world's original asshole DM

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    4. Re:Gotta watch those promises by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      God: Ok, roll a saving throw.
      Sodom & Gomorrah: *rolls* 1. Uh-oh.

      Ok, now someone needs to write a version of the bible with God as the DM and the major characters as players (or NPCs). Something along the lines of Darths and Droids.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    5. Re:Gotta watch those promises by cellocgw · · Score: 1

      Old World Problems.
      Also known as the "Make me a ham sandwich" epitaph.

      Hey,it works fine if you preface it with "Sudo..."

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    6. Re:Gotta watch those promises by vandamme · · Score: 1

      That's in the part where we were given "dominion" over the earth. That doesn't mean that we could fuck it up and God would pull our asses out of the fire. We were given it to take care of. Lots of responsibility there.

  4. That was close... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I thought the article was about running out of sand for silicon semiconductors. Besides California falling into the Pacific Ocean after a big earthquake, a lack of sand would be the end of Silicon Valley.

    1. Re:That was close... by StripedCow · · Score: 2

      I thought the article was about running out of sand for silicon semiconductors.

      And I thought the shortage was due to the steadily increasing popularity of silicone implants.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    2. Re:That was close... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      The economy might be getting better, but there aren't that many boob jobs out there.

    3. Re:That was close... by jdschulteis · · Score: 1

      I thought the article was about running out of sand for silicon semiconductors. Besides California falling into the Pacific Ocean after a big earthquake, a lack of sand would be the end of Silicon Valley.

      No worries: silicon for semiconductors could be made from the fine, smooth, easily-blows-away desert sand.

    4. Re:That was close... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Haven't you heard? We just had an election. It's McConnell and Boehner.

    5. Re:That was close... by mrchaotica · · Score: 2

      Boehner is a boob? I think you need an anatomy lesson!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    6. Re:That was close... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      After 50 failed attempts to repeal Obamacare, what else would you call Boehner?

    7. Re:That was close... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      You beat me to it

    8. Re:That was close... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Really? I allude to a "boob" being the wrong bit of anatomy to call somebody named "Boehner," and you still need me to spell it out for you?!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    9. Re:That was close... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I guess you didn't notice that I was dickering around in my reply.

  5. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by Charcharodon · · Score: 1, Flamebait
    I was almost tempted to say California, but you were asking about places in the rational world.

    California would never be found on that map.

  6. No sand. by denzacar · · Score: 2

    Why don't these people just put a gun to their head and end their misery instead of inflicting it on the rest of us?

    Cause they don't got the sand to do it.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:No sand. by Minwee · · Score: 1

      Why don't these people just put a gun to their head and end their misery instead of inflicting it on the rest of us?

      Cause they don't got the sand to do it.

      It's not just sand, they may live in a world without zinc, too.

  7. During the Gulf War the US imported sand to Saudi by wiredog · · Score: 3, Funny

    Because the local sand was the wrong type for sandbags...

  8. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by itsenrique · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The rational world where they are worth money through tourism. Did you even read *any* of the linked articles? They are fairly illuminating on the subject.

  9. ignorant rubbish by iggymanz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The ocean floors have millions of square miles of sand. The planet earth will not run out of sand.

    1. Re:ignorant rubbish by Cardoor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      very little in the conservation of resources movement (if you want to call it that) is about 'running out' per se. it's about running out of economically viable sources of material. to wit, there is no 'oil shortage', but there is a shortage of oil that can be extracted and brought to pipeline for

    2. Re:ignorant rubbish by turp182 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The summary states that desert sand is too fine for use on beaches. And I didn't even RTFA, the summary had a nice level of concise detail.

      How expensive would sand mining on the ocean floor be?

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    3. Re:ignorant rubbish by nwf · · Score: 1

      I was under the impression that most of the ocean bottom is actually mud / silt / muck, not sand.

      --
      I don't know, but it works for me.
    4. Re:ignorant rubbish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's already being done in a process called "dredging".

    5. Re:ignorant rubbish by itsenrique · · Score: 2

      Don't forget that dredging the ocean floor is very harmful. Not just in a maybe sorta kind of way, but (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dredging#Environmental_impacts) in a number of very serious ways.

    6. Re:ignorant rubbish by gstoddart · · Score: 1, Informative

      Didn't even read the entire summary, did you?

      Because, it pretty much says:

      One might think that desert sand would be a ready substitute, but its grains are finer and smoother; they don't adhere to rougher sand grains, and tend to blow away. As a result, the desert state of Dubai brings sand for its beaches all the way from Australia.

      But, hey thanks for playing ... here's a copy of the home game, and some lovely parting gifts for you ... these lovely serving spoons!

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    7. Re:ignorant rubbish by turp182 · · Score: 1

      I asked in a reasonably factious way, realizing that in any event, dredging the ocean for beach sand would be prohibitively expensive by a long shot.

      And thanks for the link, I love the very specific nature of the list, my favorite was:
        * Releases toxic compound Tributyltin, a popular biocide used in anti-fouling paint banned in 2008, back into the water.

      Damn that's specific, but I followed the link wondering how long that would be an issue, Tributyltin has about a 30 year life in an ecosystem.

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    8. Re:ignorant rubbish by Cardoor · · Score: 1

      somehow nixed my own sentence.. should read-----...
      for less than $75 a barrel.


      x = previous_message
      y = " less than $70 a barrel."
      print ( %s %s) %(x,y)

    9. Re:ignorant rubbish by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      Look it up, some places like that, some places have sand

    10. Re:ignorant rubbish by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

      Circa 1950, sand dredged for passage of large boats along the New Jersey shore was used to make sand beaches in southwest Connecticut. Dredging ocean floor is not exactly what is wanted, dredging the continental shelf is, particularly where it's useful for navigable waterways.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    11. Re:ignorant rubbish by xaotikdesigns · · Score: 2

      Doesn't 0.3mm fall between 0.2mm and 2mm?

      --
      XDInd
    12. Re:ignorant rubbish by Crudely_Indecent · · Score: 1

      Any SCUBA diver can tell you that an abundance of sand is expelled from the vents of parrot fish, after they eat their favorite coral. Much of it is literally - fish poop.

      --


      "Lame" - Galaxar
    13. Re:ignorant rubbish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I prefer my beaches with fine sand; none of that coarse stuff for me, that's for public beaches.

    14. Re:ignorant rubbish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, and we'll never run out of sand just like we'll never run out of oil...we'll just run out of cheap, easily accessible oil.

    15. Re:ignorant rubbish by PPH · · Score: 4, Interesting

      More expensive than simply shattering some rock down to the desired granularity.

      Perhaps we could sinter fine desert sand into larger, coarse particles suitable for beaches. Focused solar energy as a heat source is one possibility.

      A lot of beach sand is actually broken up sea shells. Calcium carbonate. If we could find a way to sequester CO2 by producing CaCO3 and using that to bind desert sand particles together, we could use that to solve the erosion plus global warming problems.

      The crisis is over. Everyone back to your SUVs.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    16. Re:ignorant rubbish by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      It does, but he wrote 0.2m.

      That's a rock.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    17. Re:ignorant rubbish by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Apparently, they're counting the riprap jetties too.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    18. Re: ignorant rubbish by xaotikdesigns · · Score: 1

      I see. However, at .2m, is it still sand? I thought that at that point, you had rocks.

      --
      XDInd
    19. Re:ignorant rubbish by Charcharodon · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Ask any scuba diver, they'll pretty much tell you that vast areas underwater are simply sand. There is no shortage of sand in the world.

      Where the sand shortage occurs is between the ocean and the very expensive homes built on/near the beach. Beaches move either due to build up or erosion. This greatly annoys the people who own said expensive homes hence the complaints of the "shortage" of sand.

      They do not like to have to pay, either directly or through taxes, to have the beach line and inter coastal areas maintained.

    20. Re:ignorant rubbish by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Stupid Slashcode. I actually wrote "less than 0.3mm" using the "less than" symbol, but Slashdot filtered it out causing all kinds of confusion.

    21. Re: ignorant rubbish by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Are you reading slashdot with edlin?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    22. Re:ignorant rubbish by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Damn that's specific, but I followed the link wondering how long that would be an issue, Tributyltin has about a 30 year life in an ecosystem.

      Question is, how long does it keep when buried deep beneath the seafloor?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    23. Re:ignorant rubbish by Cytotoxic · · Score: 4, Informative

      I asked in a reasonably factious way, realizing that in any event, dredging the ocean for beach sand would be prohibitively expensive by a long shot.

      Not really. They dredge the bottom to replenish beach sand all the time. Pretty much all of the beaches on the Atlantic side of Florida are built out by dredging.

      The sand on the beaches naturally moves up and down the shore, making wide beaches and then eroding down to nothing, creating barrier islands and wiping them away. It is only when we stuck a bunch of buildings on the shore and expected everything to stay in one place that this became a problem.

    24. Re:ignorant rubbish by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      This is pretty much it.

      While my main job is working on computers, I do like researching other things. I've read a few books on beach engineering and coastal erosion. Here's pretty much what no one who owns beach property is going to want to hear...

      "If you want a beach, you can't build anywhere close to it".

      Sea walls that protect houses prevent beaches from forming and they will erode up to the wall. Piers change beach dynamics and where there was once sand, there will quickly be nothing (or in some cases the beach will advance very far out the pier ruining its intended purpose. The beach is a very dynamic place and anything you put out there changes those dynamics.

    25. Re:ignorant rubbish by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
      *Nobody* should have to pay through taxes for construction in such places. It's a really risky and foolish place to build. For example, any barrier island system is guaranteed to be moving around and be overtopped by storms from time to time on 100-year timescales. It's a nice place to visit, but people who insist on building there should be floating all of the costs on their own.

      Welcome to Florida.

  10. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    You've obviously have never made S'mores over a raging bonfire on the beach during summer.

  11. Peak Sand! by Scottingham · · Score: 4, Funny

    Oh Noes! We've reached peak sand! Our grandchildren will live in a sandless world marked by misery and sharp rocks.

    1. Re:Peak Sand! by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      How the hell am I supposed to get a drink?!?

      Straight from the teat?

    2. Re:Peak Sand! by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      See that cow over there? I know it's not pasteurized, but... Better wear a helmet, you wouldn't want to be kicked in the head.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  12. Did Hugh Pickens RTFA? by GoddersUK · · Score: 5, Insightful
    TFS said

    As a result, the desert state of Dubai brings sand for its beaches all the way from Australia.

    But then I RTFAed (I know, it's /., no one RTFAs) and

    Perth's GMA Garnet will this month send a shipment of heavy mineral sand to Saudi Arabia for sandblasting... ...the special alluvial sand is suited for sandblasting because it is free of silica, which creates dust that can cause lung cancer and silicosis in workers

    Nope, no beaches. But wait, there's more:

    Another firm selling a sand-based product to the desert region is NT Prestressing, which has a type of concrete that can be laid quickly, speeding up building

    Still no beaches though. Guess I won't be going to Saudi for my beach holiday, I'll have to stick with Aus - and we all know what they think of us Brits...

    1. Re:Did Hugh Pickens RTFA? by GoddersUK · · Score: 1

      Oh, and Dubai isn't in Saudi either... but at least the concrete is going to Dubai, so he got one thing half right!

    2. Re:Did Hugh Pickens RTFA? by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Mod up! Good research!

    3. Re:Did Hugh Pickens RTFA? by Zalbik · · Score: 2

      However, the referenced NY Times article does indicate:

      "As a result, the desert state of Dubai brings sand for its beaches all the way from Australia."

      However, I can't find any good references to back this up.

      Also, the NY Times article is an opinion piece from a history professor....additional evidence required.

    4. Re:Did Hugh Pickens RTFA? by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Given that Dubai / UAE has been spending billions upon billions building massive resort islands for years now, that's not only plausible, but likely...

  13. You ate sand??? by Shinare · · Score: 1

    I ate sand.

  14. Geologist says "Bullshit" by RockDoctor · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Or even "BullSand!"

    The problem, if any, is idiots who think that the only possible type of holiday involves roasting to a crisp laying on a beach, then dying of skin cancer. Let them die roasting on pebbles - it means all the more mountains and forests and seas and lakes for the rest of us.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    1. Re:Geologist says "Bullshit" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, serves those idiots right for choosing leisure activities different than yours. Only moron would risk dying from skin cancer. Enlightened souls only go to the seas and lakes that don't have beaches and only risk themselves falling off cliffs, avalanches, drowning in rivers, and death from exposure.

    2. Re:Geologist says "Bullshit" by itsenrique · · Score: 2

      OK, but for those of us who grew up in places that naturally had nice beaches to start with (hey, Florida has to have at least ONE nice thing!?) beach restoration doesn't sound so crazy. And the biggest factor now is not sea level rise as I understand it. The problem is that we change the way erosion happens with our development of coastline. The change is for the negative. I agree a vacation (or holiday, as you say) in the mountains beats a crowded beach any day. But remember not everyone just goes to beaches on holiday. Some of us live in places where that is the only nice thing left when you want to see "nature" and not travel for hours. Keep in mind we have uncombed beaches as part of many stat parks here, so it really is much like it was when the Spanish arrived! Seaweed all over and all. The spot I speak of is 4 1/2 miles long open to the public and a small island very nearby accessible only by ferry or private boat. It is right north of (on a map, but not by roads) one of the most heavy touristed beaches in the densest county population wise in Florida. But if you're willing to walk to the end of the 4ish miles: you still get to be alone with nature just like in the mountains or wherever in the backcountry. I don't my state to lose its beaches like already lost most of our once-awesome freshwater springs (but that's another post).

    3. Re:Geologist says "Bullshit" by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      For someone who claims to be a scientist, you seem to know almost nothing about really basic biology or medicine, huh? While it's the most common type of cancer, skin cancer also the most treatable.

      IMO better to enjoy life, travel, and get outside than whatever you do for "fun" (hit rocks with little mallets in the basement?) But in any case you are a true douchenozzle for wishing death on anyone. Karma's a bitch, watch out for falling rocks...

    4. Re:Geologist says "Bullshit" by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Most people who do their "leisure" by lying on a beach do so because they believe the relentless advertising that tells them that is the only proper way to holiday.

      Mindlessly following the diktats of the advertising industry is a clear sign of cretinous imbecility.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    5. Re:Geologist says "Bullshit" by RockDoctor · · Score: 2
      Beach restoration very rarely works on a timescale longer than a few years. Beaches are very dynamic environments, with sand flowing into them, along them and then off them. Most losses of beaches are not because (directly) of sea-level changes, but because the supply of sand has been interrupted somewhere upstream (and that can take decades to become visible, and decades to correct). whether that is because of dredging of the sand upstream for some industrial purpose, or re-alignment of a river (there are huge problems around the Mississippi delta, for example, because they're being sediment-starved because of the building of levees to protect New Orleans. Make a choice : New Orleans, or stable shore lines?), or changes in agricultural practice in the feeding rivers, or dams that trap the sand hundreds of kilometres from the coast.

      That's why (shock, horror) government agencies try to insist upon environmental impact assessments of developments before they happen, and is also why business people who want to make those developments without paying the costs of the changes they make resist those regulations.

      Actually, it's not just businesses that cause the problems. In the mid-1950s there were significant mileages of coastal defences built along parts of the East Coast of England and the coasts of the Low Countries, by governmental agencies, in response to a flood/ storm surge in 1953 which was comparable to the Katrina hurricane in New Orleans. Over the subsequent decades it has been realised that many of these schemes have been poorly designed (because rushed into construction, because "do something!") and are causing further erosion and often retreat of the sea front, because of changes to sediment movement. It took less than two decades to realise and understand the problems, but more than four decades to even partly repair the consequences. That's while also dealing with around 3.5mm/yr of isostatic sea-level rise and another ~2mm/year of eustatic (global) sea-level rise.

      There are genuine and real issues in managing coastal change - and coasts are changing, all the time. Regardless of the arguments about the reality of global warming (as a geologist, we've no doubt that it's happening, and little doubt about the rates and medium-term consequences), in large parts of the world there is continuing isostatic re-adjustment to the melting of the glaciers, even out to around a thousand kilometres from the ice front, because the rock for the uplift of glaciated areas has to come from somewhere. Moving further from the glaciers, to for example the Mediterranean, the whole area is tectonically active enough to have many metres of vertical movement within recorded history (see, for example, Lyell, 1832-6 describing the "Temple of Seraphis" near Naples, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...). I don't know the geology of southern America well enough to know what;s happening there, but anywhere north of one or other Carolina you're going to be getting into isostatic effects.

      Regardless of which, the premise of the author - that only beach sand matters and only beach sand is measured is pure bullshit. The amounts moved around for beach restoration and other cosmetic purposes is vanishingly small compared to the (mega-)tonnages used in the building industry as aggregate for making concrete. Just because people see it, doesn't mean that it's particularly important. Would you prefer to have no concrete, anywhere, and a nice beach?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    6. Re:Geologist says "Bullshit" by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Karma doesn't exist.

      Enjoy your death. It is going to happen, regardless of what I, or anyone else says, including you.

      I'm pretty dubious about your claims on the prevalence or treatability of skin cancer. It's the only one I've had, but [shrug] that's a sample of one.

      I do actually enjoy life, and I get paid well to travel extensively in order to hit rocks in the field with mallets ranging from a pocket chisel and a convenient rock, up to a $450million drilling rig. But waste my life frying on a beach - why the fuck would I be such a retard as to do that?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    7. Re:Geologist says "Bullshit" by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Karma doesn't exist.

      Yes, obviously (eye roll). And I don't wish skin cancer or death by falling rocks on you or anyone who decides to go on a tropical vacation once in a while. I assume you don't, really, either, and were just having a bad day or something. But if I'm wrong, then the douchenozzle comment stands.

      I'm pretty dubious about your claims on the prevalence or treatability of skin cancer. It's the only one I've had, but [shrug] that's a sample of one.

      Wait, you've *had* it and are still alive, and are dubious that it's highly treatable? (and you never researched it at all?) Ok, don't trust your own experience, I guess... but look it up!

      "Skin cancer is the most common of all cancers. It accounts for nearly half of all cancers in the United States. More than 3.5 million cases of basal and squamous cell skin cancer are diagnosed in this country each year. Melanoma, the most serious type of skin cancer, will account for more than 76,000 cases of skin cancer in 2014."

      "The overall 5-year relative survival rate for melanoma is 91%. For localized melanoma, it’s 98%; survival rates for regional and distant stage diseases are 62% and 16%, respectively. About 84% of melanomas are diagnosed at a localized stage." [from American Cancer Society]

      I'll let you do the math, but I think it's pretty clear just by reading it that "skin cancer" as a whole (including melanoma, the only one that has significant mortality) has a well over 99% (really more like 99.99%) survival rate in a developed country.

      But waste my life frying on a beach - why the fuck would I be such a retard as to do that?

      I have two words for you. Surprised you haven't heard them, but apparently it may change your life!

      Wear sunscreen.

    8. Re:Geologist says "Bullshit" by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Wear sunscreen.

      I do. several layers of it, if I can't manage several hundreds of miles range.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  15. Mass Media B.S. by DaveM753 · · Score: 1

    That's all.

  16. Yep by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A relative of mine just became very wealthy after selling his farm to a sandmine. The sandmine's going to dig out all the sand... haul it off for Fracking, then turn the remaining pit into a lake/wetland and return it to the state after which it'll become a wildlife refuge. Something that was important to my very outdoorsy relative.

    They actually sent in geologists, took core samples, and did all sorts of tests to determine what the sand would be best used for. Certain sizes/grains/etc... are better for beaches, Crude oil, natural gas, etc... depending on what you have, the more money you get. He lucked out and had it all. The sandy soil that plagued him as a farmer for years actually made him rich in the end. As a joke I looked up how much he paid for the land back in the 80s... and figured out the price of Apple and Microsoft stock at the time... and proved to him that he made more money buying sand than he would have investing in either. He got a pretty big kick out that because when he bought it I was a kid and he said "If you're going to invest in anything, invest in land. It's the only thing they're not making any more of."

    1. Re:Yep by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile, I cannot even install a fence near the shitty stream in my yard.

      You can, you just don't know how to get the permitting right. Usually "I want to modify a wetland to keep my dog from getting wet" doesn't fly. Talk to a lawyer experienced in these things and he'll help you form an argument that'll work. If I were you, I'd start with the "Safety" of children around a possible flood prone waterway.

    2. Re:Yep by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Hopefully it's not a stream, it's a drainage ditch.

      If it goes dry during a drought it's a ditch. Take lots of pictures when it is dry. Install a dam/diversion upriver if needed.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re:Yep by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      A picket style or privacy fence should be no where near a creek that floods. That's probably why the permit has been denied. Think of it as a damn that is going to trap water and junk when it floods and make the flood worse for those upstream.

  17. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm sorry, are beaches not a resource? Are they not found in nature? Do they not provided a habitat that has it's own ecosystem? Do they not act as a buffer between the tides and habitable/irrigable land? The only person not rational here is you - because you are clearly too much of a fucktard to understand what a natural resource is, much less understand what value these resources might have aside from consumption and exploitation. Yes, beaches are a natural resource and yes, like other natural resources, they need protection from brainless consumer pieces of shit like you who take take take and eat eat eat like hungry little piggies with no thought of consequences or appreciation of nature at all.

  18. Re:Really?! REALLY?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    That or we use the climate change deniers as infill ... because assholes like you already have your heads buried in the sand.

  19. So? by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

    Okay, I could understand if we were losing topsoil or something we really need. But sand?

    So, I guess we'll have to wear shoes now at the beach. What a catastrophe!

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  20. no... we are not running out of sand by Karmashock · · Score: 1

    Before someone responds to contradict an obviously correct point... stop. Step away from the computer... do something less likely to reveal you are an idiot.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    1. Re:no... we are not running out of sand by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Of course "sand" is a pretty generic term for a lot of stuff that is quite different when you look at it in detail. It is certainly possible for a specific type of sand to be in short supply while sand in general is not.

    2. Re:no... we are not running out of sand by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Then be specific.

      If you're telling me we are running out of water for example... on planet earth... I am going to laugh in your face.

      If you tell me that some town in a desert community is running low on drinking water... then that is a different situation. The answer there would be to either limit the population in that community or improve infrastructure to handle the shortage.

      As to people running out of sand... I saw two places where there are sand shortages... apparently india for some reason is having a shortage which is leading to smuggling from other places. I'm not sure why they need to smuggle... they go to these absurd lengths to get the sand when you would think it would be cheaper to just buy it.

      And then I think I saw something from a fracking operation in the US that was having trouble getting sand to blast into the shafts.

      Sand is pulverized rock. Give me a rock crusher and whatever type of rock you want turned into sand... and I'll give you all the sand you could ever want. What is more... where is all this sand going? From what I've seen it is mostly being lost to erosion which means it is just going into the ocean somewhere.

      If we really want this sand back... dredge it up if you want it so badly. It is there somewhere. Here someone will complain about the poor sea creatures... there has to be a reasonable way to get the sand up without genociding all life in the oceans... hysterical people get slapped. :-P

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    3. Re:no... we are not running out of sand by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Do political activists exaggerate things for their own personal gain or simply to get people to take them seriously?

      Yes I think that happens.

      Do construction companies move dirt around when they build things? I imagine they have to do that, yes.

      As to sand trafficking... I did just look it up and it seems to only happen around india for some reason. It isn't a global issue. As to why it is happening in india... I can't say. I assume it is more economic then anything else because from what I can see most people just buy the sand they need and don't resort to absurd sand stealing capers.

      As to replacing sand lost to erosion, that is merely humanity trying to stop natural changes to our coasts to preserve property value. That isn't an environmental crisis. That is a real estate crisis... and only for the people that own that real estate.

      If you're going to whine about the god damn oceans constantly then don't live by them. The tide comes in and the tide comes out... and it can sometimes add to a beach and it can sometimes remove sand from a beach. Notice how many people complain when sand gets added to a beach and the size of their property effectively increases? No one complains. But it does happen all the time.

      Please stop being such a credulous idiot. This is the 21st century. We have very poor filters for twits in this millennia and it is incumbent on everyone to go out of their way to try to be slightly less stupid.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    4. Re:no... we are not running out of sand by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      it is crushed rock.... so are we running out of crushed rock?... no.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    5. Re:no... we are not running out of sand by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Erosion is natural... see the grand canyon... Hard to see why I should give even one fuck here.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    6. Re:no... we are not running out of sand by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Completely reasonable comparison... keep up that sharp logic you master of rhetoric you.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  21. Made me think of HHGTG by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 1

    Where they weighed you on arrival at the planet, and on departure.. except now they'll make you pass your swimming costume over a sieve before leaving the beach.

    --


    He tried to kill me with a forklift!
  22. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by VAXcat · · Score: 2

    It's sort of like the Dunning Kreuger effect - the cognitive skills that wold enable you to tell if you are rational are exactly the ones that the lack of makes you irrational...thus, your assertion that you are rational is just another symptom of the California effect.

    --
    There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
  23. Re:Stop It! by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

    Why don't these people just put a gun to their head and end their misery instead of inflicting it on the rest of us?

    Not enough 3D printers?

  24. Beach by james_shoemaker · · Score: 2

    As someone who lives on a lake I see neighbors buying dumptruck-loads of sand every few years and laugh at them. Peach reservation is all about coutour and slope. My little piece of lakeshore includes a parabola shaped cove around 50' wide at the mouth and 50' deep with a gently sloping floor. I've been there 18 years and haven't had to buy any sand yet, the wave action washes the sand around my shore cleaning it naturally, but the shape of the shore keeps it in the cove, in fact my neighbor to the north bought 30Tons of sand and put it on his shore (that happens to be shaped like a peninsula. My beach gained 3' over the next few years as his sand washed into my cove. Anyone who wants a beach shouldn't be screwing up the shoreline that created and preserved the beach in the first place.

    1. Re:Beach by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      The problem is, you can't have a shoreline which is all cove --- look at North Carolina's Outer Banks --- Waves/Rodanthe/Salvo lose sand, while it builds up at the tail end down past Hatteras.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    2. Re:Beach by PPH · · Score: 1

      The problem is that all the good cove property is taken and the real estate industry needs to foist eroding headlands off onto someone.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:Beach by nblender · · Score: 2

      Clearly you should offer to sell him your excess sand that mysteriously builds up every year, at 3/4 the price...

    4. Re:Beach by james_shoemaker · · Score: 1

      He gave up after that sand washed away and rocked his shore rather than fighting nature.

  25. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

    Well in Oregon all beaches are publicly owned, and as such there's no 'shoreline' development. Your move California.

  26. California by istartedi · · Score: 1

    I heard all kinds of stories about sand replenishment on beaches when I lived back east. The most interesting story involved dredging a few miles off-shore and dumping it on the beach. This had the unintended consequence of churning up the occasional sunken treasure. Visiting the beach shortly after such a replenishment operation, maybe you'll find a doubloon, but more likely an old nail or an interesting piece of sea-glass.

    California doesn't seem to have this problem. I'll hazard a guess that it has something to do with the continuous seismic activity replenishing things. Also, young mountains bring silt down and many of the beaches are not sandy in the first place. So. The "nightmare scenario" of sand loss is a rocky shore with what we call "pocket beaches" of sand here and there. Strangely, I actually prefer this rugged shoreline. It's more interesting to me. If it comes to that on the East Coast, they'll adapt. I understand Home Sapiens is a highly adaptable species, even though it complains about change a lot.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:California by CWCheese · · Score: 1

      California does indeed have this problem occasionally. During the recent summer, there were 3 or 4 hurricanes along the coast of Baja, which were quite powerful but not strong enough to travel all the way to the US coast of California. However, the enormous waves generated in those hurricanes were some of the largest seen in many decades, with swells over 20 ft (7 meters) for days at a stretch. These waves eroded great sections of beach sand, especially at the city of Seal Beach, allowing tides and swells to flood Seal Beach one night. Fortunately for Seal Beach, there was sand available from river dredging in Orange County which was given to rebuild the sand berms and levees to restore protection from future storms. Ordinarily that sand would have replenished itself as the rivers carry it to the deltas into the ocean, but that would have taken several years.

      --
      Have a Day!
    2. Re:California by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      When I was stationed at Keesler AFB in Biloxi MS, a while ago, they were busy trucking sand from the most recent hurricane had deposited it back to the Biloxi beaches. they seemed to have lost >10 feet of it.

      In Maine, I lived near a beach being depleted by changes in circulation caused by a railroad bridge some 12-20 miles north. Among other things, homes were being undermined. So far as I know, the bridge was modified, but it takes time for this to correct.

      Beaches have never been permanent, however, and our time frame is just too short to fully appreciate that, nor long enough to tolerate the cycles.Kinda like so called man-made climate change.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  27. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 3, Insightful

    >Well in Oregon all beaches are publicly owned, and as such there's no 'shoreline' development. Your move California.

    Have you been to Seaside Oregon lately? It's pretty built up.

    All the land between low tide and high tide is public land. But right behind that is open season.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  28. uh oh by slashdice · · Score: 1

    How will timothy pound sand when there's no sand to pound? Will he pound the sand in his vagina?

    --
    Copyright (c) 1990 - 2014 Dice. All rights reserved. Use of this comment is subject to certain Terms and Conditions.
  29. This really is a serious problem by Daetrin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sand has a lot of uses but it's non-renewable. There's no way (yet) to manufacture it. If you mine the beaches you ruin the environment and end up with eyesores. The same thing happens if you go to your local desert and mine there. It is possible to strip mine a desert, take all the sand and sandstone, and then put a layer of sand back on top. That leaves the landscape looking mostly the same, albeit a bit lower in elevation than it was before, but it takes a _lot_ of work. I've heard of people doing massive underwater operations to strip mine the seabed of sand so that none of the easily visible above-water environments are damaged.

    ...wait, we are talking about Minecraft, right?

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    1. Re:This really is a serious problem by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Sand has a lot of uses but it's non-renewable. There's no way (yet) to manufacture it.

      Can't you manufacture sand by repeatedly hitting a rock with a hard object?

      Or did I just miss out on the patent of a lifetime by publishing my idea in an open forum?

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    2. Re:This really is a serious problem by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      I live in a town with 3 commercial sand pits and another owned by the town. Deposits are typically strip mined about 50 feet down until a few feet above the water table. (Owners are required to replant the land and restore reasonable slopes when done.) There are a variety of grades of sand here. It's barely worth the effort of shoveling the stuff up, and there is no shortage. It looks like about a 50 year supply, and that's without opening new pits. The idea that there's a shortage, or that people would steal sand from here, is quite funny.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    3. Re:This really is a serious problem by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      No, not exactly. Doing that you end up with very small, sharp, broken rocks. You also end up with a chemically active surface, depending on the type of rock, that is very alkaline or acidic. Sand (at least beach sand) is both mechanical and chemical weathering of rocks that is then polished by water over time.

    4. Re:This really is a serious problem by carbonates · · Score: 1

      It is not only possible to make sand from rock it is done in many places. Sandstone is rock made from sand, and the sand grains have already been rounded and weathered by ancient oceans, beaches, and rivers. Crushing it makes rock into sand that is just like the beach sand it once was.

  30. Re:Stop It! by fustakrakich · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What are you talking about? These people are raking in millions by scaring everybody. Fear and terror are major parts of the economy now. They have replaced manufacturing and farming.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  31. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by geekoid · · Score: 1

    Any one where parks are a natural resource.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  32. The bigger problem by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    We need to stop taking sand for granted? If that's true we have a much bigger problem on our hands.

  33. A beach can disappear very quickly by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 1

    I used to work at a beach-front hotel on Maui, a storm wiped out our entire beach in a couple days and started eating away at the grounds of the hotel, until they brought in truckloads of boulders to protect it. It was pretty amazing. I'm told most of the sand at Waikiki was shipped from another island, don't know if that's true.

    --
    Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
    1. Re:A beach can disappear very quickly by jmauro · · Score: 1

      No on the other island. It's dredged from just off shore. At one time it was shipped in from California, but that ended a while a go.

  34. Re:Stop It! by geekoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    If we run out of sand, where will you put your head?

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  35. This is 100% bullshit by gelfling · · Score: 1

    Sorry but this is some kind of NGO paid placement in the NYT.

  36. 1st world problem by iamacat · · Score: 1

    We are running out of a number of things which are more immediately critical. Let's chill out a bit here.

  37. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by TrentTheThief · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Natural Resources are things found in nature that are used and can be used up. Clean water, breathable air, plant life, animal life, arable land, those are natural resources. They are consumed through use and can be overused to the point of disappearing. A beach on the other hand, that is not a natural resource. It's a terrain feature, just like a mountain. You can no more "use up" a beach than you can use up the view of Mt. McKinley.

    Unfortunately (as viewed by beach residents), beach erosion _IS_ natural. That's how it works. The beaches need protection from people like you since you don't understand what qualities define a natural resource and through your ignorance think you can "repair" a beach.

    Attempting to "preserve" beaches does no more than screw up the beaches for people who live down-current (no matter which direction that current flows.) You don't understand how the ocean or the earth work.

    Beaches are supposed to erode. That is MOTHERFUCKING NATURE. Deal with it.

    Study some oceanography.

  38. How does that not work???? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Wikipedia mentions that the grains are "booming" which means they are 0.3mm. Beaches are 0.2m to 2mm.

    So since the stated problem with using desert sand is that it is "too fine", and the Death Valley sand is in fact the opposite (coarser grains), in what way does it not work again?

    The real problem is that Death Valley is a national park and even fairly barren wilderness deserves some level of protection... you wouldn't want to mine the whole valley for sand.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  39. Just Make More... by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 1

    Sand is just ground up quartz. i.e. The second most common mineral in the earth's crust.

  40. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by SydShamino · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well, clearly from TFA beaches are being used to the point of disappearing, and from the actions of humans, not just nature. That's how it's working. As can a mountain.

    --
    It doesn't hurt to be nice.
  41. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

    Natural Resources are things found in nature that can be used. They need not be used, nor need they be capable of being used up. The rocky coast of Maine is a tourist attraction that can be used without (significantly) being used up. The same goes for the Rockies, Lake Superior, et cetera pluribus.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  42. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by riverat1 · · Score: 1

    Unlike California those property owners can't deny access to the beach in front of their property by the general public.

  43. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by jmauro · · Score: 2

    You cannot deny access in Califorrnia either. Some people try to, but legally you can't.

  44. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    All the land between low tide and high tide is public land. But right behind that is open season.

    Patience is a virtue.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  45. Endangered natural resource by whereiswaldo · · Score: 1

    We need to stop taking sand for granted and think of it as an endangered natural resource

    And all the animals and trees said: back of the line, buddy!

  46. Re:Really?! REALLY?! by PPH · · Score: 1

    We are also running out of idiotic tree huggers

    Just plant trees. They will attract the tree-huggers.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  47. Sand for construction by Etherwalk · · Score: 2

    I thought the article was about running out of sand for silicon semiconductors. Besides California falling into the Pacific Ocean after a big earthquake, a lack of sand would be the end of Silicon Valley.

    Or sand for construction. Sand is a major ingredient in cement, so running out of sand would be a big deal.

    1. Re:Sand for construction by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

      I was actually thinking of mixing Portland Cement with sand; my bad for accuracy, but still a problem either way.

  48. As a freight forwarder by argStyopa · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I handled a shipment of sand from the US to Saudi Arabia. Seriously.

    Apparently it was for a golf course, and some specially beautiful white sand.

    --
    -Styopa
  49. Dubia? by rickb928 · · Score: 2

    How many Dubai beaches are artificially constructed?

    And so should be expected to require a LOT of sand, and not be expected to last very long...

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  50. clean white sand is a byproduct of tar-sand oil by jclaer · · Score: 1

    Clean white sand is a byproduct of tar-sand petroleum production in northern Alberta, Canada. They dig a giant hole in this gooey stinky tar stuff, wash it in hot naptha, take the clean white sand coming out, and dump it back in the hole it came out of. What limits production is lack of permits for the pipeline they need to export the oil.

  51. Taking for granite? by tompaulco · · Score: 1

    Has anyone done the "taking sand for granite" joke yet? It works on so many levels.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    1. Re:Taking for granite? by MildlyTangy · · Score: 1

      Has anyone done the "taking sand for granite" joke yet? It works on so many levels.

      No, I do believe that you are the very first. I dont get it, so can you please tell us the joke?

      I have a hunch that you somehow think the word 'granite' sounds kinda-maybe like 'granted', but that sounds pretty absurd and I am not going to assume that you are stupid....can you please elaborate?

    2. Re:Taking for granite? by Megane · · Score: 1

      Except that sand is basically ground up quartz, while granite is an igneous rock consisting of multiple minerals. While granite does contain quartz, it also contains feldspar, mica, muscovite, biotite, and hornblende-type amphiboles. Perhaps if you instead tried "taking sand from granite", you might have something.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    3. Re:Taking for granite? by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      I guess it was just a little to subtle for you. You see, sand and granite are related geologic materials, and some people of low intelligence say "take for granite" instead of "take for granted". Explaining it kind of ruins it, doesn't it?

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  52. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Study yourself. And stop being rude. In an awful lot of places the erosion we're seeing now is far from natural. There are several factors : the "human development of shores", the dredging of sand from nearby ocean floor, and the lack of fresh sand arriving from the rivers because it has already been harvested upstream.

  53. No More wars! by Gliscameria · · Score: 1

    How great is this! Global warming can bring world peace! We don't need to go around fighting wars on drugs or brown people, we can funnel all of that money upwards by entering and endless war against the ocean. Plus think of all of the benefits to the economy, they already covered mining for sand, but we'll need a whole lot of concrete and iron for structures. Plus, a lot of houses are going to get flooded, plus we'll have to build new ones, then you can do glass bottom boat tours of the ruins of Miami. This global warming this is going to be a cash cow!

    --
    X
  54. Slashdot: best when people go off their meds by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2

    >> brainless consumer pieces of shit like you who take take take and eat eat eat like hungry little piggies with no thought

    I love it when people go off their meds around here.

  55. Story of the Earth by MildlyTangy · · Score: 1

    "the story of the earth will still have subsequent chapters told in grains of sand."

    Huh? What the hell does that sentence even mean? Stories with sand-chapters made out of fine ground rock that tells "the story" of Earth...?

    I tried to...but I don't even....

  56. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Informative

    Have you been to Seaside Oregon lately? It's pretty built up.

    The law grandfathers existing shoreline development (whatever existed as of 1967).

    Also, "right behind" high-tide is a misnomer. Anything new can only be built on land higher than 16' (altitude) above sea level at low-tide, which is much farther back than the mere high-tide mark (which averages around 8'), so unless you're building on a cliff-edge, or a mountainside or suchlike, you're not really going to get a beach view out of your new property...

    The state also reserves the right to regulate such land further as needed.

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  57. Re:Stop It! by unixisc · · Score: 2

    When I first read the headline, I thought they were blaming it on all the sand that's been removed in order to make silicon products. I wasn't too disappointed - just reverted to form by blaming people for rising ocean levels and increased storms.

    Seriously, for crying out loud, silicon is the most abundant thing in the earth's crust. How can we run out of that? It's not like helium, which goes from atmosphere to stratosphere to ionosphere & poof... It stays on earth itself. It's like complaining that we're depleting the earth of water if we find a way to harness the ocean.

  58. 3rd 1st world problems by Dahamma · · Score: 1

    ie. 3rd world countries with problems catering to 1st world tourists.

  59. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by El_Oscuro · · Score: 2

    You mean like Wonko the Sane, who also lives in California? According to ancient legends, when Wonko saw instructions on how to use a toothpick on a packet of toothpicks, he became convinced that the world had gone crazy and so built the house as an asylum for it, with the insides and outsides reversed. Apparently he also received a fishbowl from the Dolphins before they left.

    --
    "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
  60. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 2

    Studied some oceanography. The problem is not that beaches are transient. The problem is our idea of property. The problem is ports, seawalls, jetties. We want beach front property we can have a house on, a hotel on, a strip mall by. You can repair a beach. Just quit building within a few miles of it. It's a moving object. It will show back up once you give it the proper habitat. If you build houses and seawalls up the entire coast you will not have beaches. That means the beach disappears. The natural mechanisms that make beaches cannot do their jobs.

    http://www.amazon.com/Saving-A...

  61. Re:Well it's official by mark-t · · Score: 1

    Pedantry...

    Silica is not an element.

    Silicon is.

    And Silicon is not the most abundant element on earth, or in its crust. Oxygen is, comprising almost half of the earth's mass. Silicon is a runner up in second place at just under 30% of the earth's mass.

    Of course, silica is made up of oxygen and silicon, and is easily the most common compound found within the earth's crust... but it's still not an element.

  62. There used to be a joke by Casandro · · Score: 1

    What happens if the Sahara changes to communism? Nothing for the first years, then they start running out of sand.

  63. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by TrentTheThief · · Score: 1

    Short of people physically removing the rocks, that can not be "used up."

  64. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by TrentTheThief · · Score: 1

    So there you go.

    Attempts to stop beach erosion are both futile and damaging to the environment. Also, fuck off.

  65. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by TrentTheThief · · Score: 1

    You nailed it!

  66. Ecological Dangers? by decibel.places · · Score: 2

    Are we going to disrupt global ecology further for tourism and industry?
    1. Beach erosion is a natural effect from rising sea levels. We can only interrupt this process for a limited time, until sea levels make it impossible to replenish the sand. And what are the ecological consequences of interfering with this porcess?
    2. Exporting large amounts of sand from one place to another disrupts the ecology of the location being mined. It can interfere with the way water and light are handled by the landscape. Certainly it has an impact on the local flora and fauna.
    3. If Silicon Valley needs more sand, let them get it from the moon. Don't further damage our global ecology for industry.

    1. Re:Ecological Dangers? by carbonates · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. Beach erosion happens with or without rising sea levels. In California the beaches are famous for having different sand levels between summer and winter simply because of the change in the size and frequency of waves on the Pacific Ocean. Long-shore drift is a well known process that assures that beaches will erode without changing sea level. It has always functioned and always will as long as the Earth keeps rotating and wind patterns create waves.

  67. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

    Don't confuse people with the facts. It messes up the integrity of the story.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  68. Another Geologist says bullshit by carbonates · · Score: 1

    What few people who live near or on beaches ever understand is that they live in a temporary and transient environment. Sand on all beaches moves constantly, and long-shore currents move sand along the shore until the sand reaches a channel. After the sand moves into a channel, it moves into deeper ocean waters where it is lost for economic purposes, but will serve just fine to create future sandstone deposits. The reason the sand on beaches is being deplenished was not mentioned in the article at all. The beach sand has had its supply blocked by anthropogenic engineering, such as dams on rivers, channelized rivers, levees, and many other structures. If you dam a river, the dam catches all the sand that that river would have delivered to beaches through its delta. It you channelize a river, like the Mississippi River for example, the sand supply is delivered to deep ocean water, and no longer deposited on the river delta. Much of the cause of "rising sea levels" is actually from this problem. River deltas like southern Louisiana have built up miles thick deposits of loosely consolidated sands and clays and gradually subside as they compact naturally. Unless the river is allowed to flood these areas like it always did, there is not enough sediment supply to keep these places above sea level. Along the Texas Gulf Coast the problem has been that virtually every river that crosses the state has been dammed, and some of them have more than one dam. That means very little sand is making it to the beaches of Texas, and gives some alarmists an excuse to claim sea level is rising. West Coast beaches, and East Coast beaches have much the same problem. Rising sea level does not always mean the water level is rising- very often it means the land is sinking, or in the case of beaches, simply being naturally eroded and carried into the ocean depths.

  69. Re:Coastal people live in their own universe by cwsumner · · Score: 1

    Yes. It's been known in South Carolina since at least the 1960's that buildings near the beach change the wind currents enough to cause the sand dunes to be blown away. Without the sand dunes next to the beach, the water washes the beach away. So building causes beach erosion!

    Except when the hurricanes hit Folly beach, the people that had stuff there appealed to the state politicians and got a special law allowing them to build again. The beach erosion "serves them right".

  70. Rising sea level does NOT cause net loss of beach by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    Look. Sea level has risen about 400 feet since the end of the last ice age. So if rising sea level causes net loss of beaches, that 400-ft increase would have had a far more devastating effect than the puny rise we've experienced in the last 50 years (about 7 cm). When are people going to stop falling for this AGW fear mongering?

    By the way, every species that's alive today, including polar bears, survived that 400-ft sea level increase.

    And every species that's alive today has survived dozens of glacial/interglacial alternations (i.e, the coming and going of dozens of ice ages).

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
  71. Snow on a driveway on the north side of the house by bruceslog · · Score: 1

    ^^^
    I call mine the tundra slab.
    Makes winter last an extra 6 weeks.

    --
    If it has tires or tits, it will give you problems.
  72. Imported sand in Iceland by Nammi-namm · · Score: 1

    Here in Iceland all our natural sand is black. One of the public beaches in our capital city has imported yellow sand now. When I was a kid it had black sand. I don't know why they'd do that. I thought people visited Iceland to see and have fun in blackish/greyish sand, not the bland normal sand in pretty much any other country in the world. Not to mention its now always bloody freezing on that beach now. Since yellow sand doesn't draw the heat in like black sand does.