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Military Laser/Radio Tech Proposed As Alternative To Laying Costly Fiber Cable

An anonymous reader writes "Californian comm-tech company Aoptix is testing new laser+radio hybrid communications technology with three major U.S. internet carriers. The equipment required can be bolted onto existing infrastructure, such as cell-tower masts, and can communicate a 2gbps stream over 6.5 miles. The system was developed over 10 years at a cost of $100 million in conjunction with the Air Force Research Laboratory, and the military implementation of it is called Aoptix Enhanced Air Ground Lasercom System (EAGLS). The laser component of the technology uses a deformable mirror to correct for atmospheric distortion over the mast-hop, in real-time. The laser part of the system is backed-up by a redundant radio transmitter. The radio component has low attenuation in rainy conditions with large refracting raindrops, while the laser is more vulnerable to dense fog. The system, which features auto-stabilization to compensate for cell-tower movement and is being proposed as an alternative to the tremendous cost p/m of laying fiber cable, is being tested in Mexico and Nigeria in addition to the three ISP trials.

114 of 150 comments (clear)

  1. Yes, it could be much cheaper by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    And certainly easier to tap. I hear that fiber optic is a bitch..

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      When in doubt, encrypt the link layer.

    2. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by amorsen · · Score: 1

      Fiber optic is trivial to tap. Almost as easy as analog phone lines.

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      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    3. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      And what's wrong with commercial microwave links out in the boondocks?

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    4. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Fiber optic is trivial to tap. Almost as easy as analog phone lines.

      Anything is easy to tap, at least in the U.S.

      Step 1. Mislead a FISA court about the need. After all, those being tapped will never find out, let alone have a chance to contest the evidence. It's a secret.

      Step 2. Find some ISP in the communications path, and hit them with a National Security Letter. Because, you know, fuck the Fourth Amendment. Threaten them with going to jail for even bringing up the issue in court. Again, because, well, fuck being the land of the free, since it's no longer the home of the brave.

      Step 3. Do whatever you want. If it violates the law, you can count on some combination of sovereign immunity, prosecutorial descretion, and Presidential pardons to make sure you never face justice while on this earth.

    5. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Oh, believe me. Wireless is the way to go... I was just trying to "fire up" a lively discussion... I do hope to see this downsized to an individual level that can help bring ad hoc mesh networks a little closer to being. Also, if the cost is much cheaper than fiber, the price of the service better reflect that. The people out in the sticks should have the same deals as those downtown.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    6. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wireless introduces too much latency, unless we are talking about quantumly entangled data transmission.

      That's where our research dollars should be going, let's get our petabit/s transfers through quantumly entangled photons and reduce latency all around.

      Do you know why we don't see them yet? The NSA / CIA keep killing the people who figured out how to make it work because they cannot intercept that kind of communications. The problem for them will be when one of the terrorist organizations figures out how to make it work and they end up with it, while the rest of the world doesn't have it.

      Fucking CIA / NSA keeping us in the dark ages because of their stupidity.

    7. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by mlts · · Score: 3, Informative

      L1 encryption could be quite brain-dead simple. One could use preshared keys and call it done (with an algorithm to use session keys derived from D-H sessions encrypted by the "master" PSK, and change every so often.)

      I've wondered why communications lasers are not more often used, especially IR ones.

    8. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by itzly · · Score: 1

      Point to point links are trivial to secure with good encryption. Professionals tap at the router anyway, so it doesn't matter what technology is used.

    9. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      The problem is the big ISPs have already cherry picked the places they want and have zero fucks to give about anybody else so anybody that isn't already covered by one of the majors gets "Herpa-de derp's wireless shitnet of infinite pain" which believe me going back to shotgunning modems would be better!

      I should know as I ended up moving to get away from a Herp-de derp WISP. These "brilliant networking geniuses" decided I HAD to "have teh viruz!" because I used like 6GB of data (running WSUS Update through a VM to gather patches to update my desktops at the time) in a week so I brought the only system I was using on their WISP... a laptop running Xandros Linux Business. I sat there with my mouth dragging the floor as their "chief networking specialist" promptly TRIED TO INSTALL NORTON FOR WINDOWS ON A LINUX LAPTOP and when I pointed out that Norton for Windows wasn't gonna run on Linux? He broke out an AVG for Windows disc LOL! Needless to say I demanded and got my money back and started looking for a new place to live the next day.

      So while this is a nice idea IN THEORY in reality none of the big boys will bother, after all if they had a single fuck to give they wouldn't have already taken 200 billion in tax dollars and given us a low res Goatse in return, so what you'll get is indie WISPs that know less than your average 15 year old halo player when it comes to networking.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    10. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      My educated guess is that you do not tap the fiber but instead would get the data out of the amplifiers on the cable.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    11. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by amorsen · · Score: 2

      Still, when the NSA wanted access to Google's information, they went for tapping fiber optic cables instead of hitting them with National Security Letters.

      The solution is encryption of course, but IPSEC is a royal pain and MACSEC is too limited.

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      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    12. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by Delwin · · Score: 1

      Not really. Sure you need to splice it and put a relay in but that's all known technology and well within reach of any entity that really wants to do it. On the other hand an over-the-air signal will be encrypted fairly heavily and thus will actually be harder to tap.

    13. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      Still, when the NSA wanted access to Google's information, they went for tapping fiber optic cables instead of hitting them with National Security Letters.

      Not sure we can know it was an either/or situation.

    14. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by Delwin · · Score: 2

      IR scatters in the atmosphere fairly quickly. You don't have as much range with an IR laser as you would with an optical one or even just a microwave beam.

      That said this system uses multiple types (radio and laser) because when one doesn't work well the other will work fine and visa-versa.

    15. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by Delwin · · Score: 1

      Not only that but wireless is optical, just different wavelengths. Photons are the carriers for both and they move at around the same speed through air as they do through glass.

    16. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      ...if they had a single fuck to give they wouldn't have already taken 200 billion in tax dollars and given us a low res Goatse in return...

      Damn! Seven years ago that happened, and nothing has changed one tiny bit, and the future looks very dim... Moral of the story, if you're gonna steal, do it big.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    17. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by skids · · Score: 1

      I do hope to see this downsized to an individual level that can help bring ad hoc mesh networks a little closer to being

      TFA is about a refinement to tech that's existed for quite some decades now -- I remember pricing out dual FSO/microwave setups way back when. They never really came down into a price range where we could justify deploying them versus leasing telco, even the small ones, and we saw no real motion towards commoditization.

    18. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by mlts · · Score: 1

      That's the rub. Turning on encryption is easy. However, how does one do key management?

      Arguably, the most secure way would be to have a true secure RNG (using radioactive decay, high speed flip-flops, or political flip-flopping on issues) as a source of randomness, perhaps multiple sources so if one ends up having something periodic, a "bit blender" (be it a hashing algorithm, or just XOR-ing the random number streams.) Then having two copies of the OTP, one at each endpoint.

      Realistically, don't see a OTP being used, but maybe the quantum key generation used as a way to create a highly secure key that session keys are generated from.

      However, for relatively cheap devices, if they implement crypto even up to WPA2-PSK spec, I'll be impressed. My ideal is to use a set of preshared keys (preferably both a set of symmetrical and assymetric) to generate random session keys via a D-H exchange, and periodically generate a new key.

    19. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I am paying for an apt even though I have a nice 3 bed 2 bath sitting empty, why? Because its a block from where the lines end and neither the DSL or cable will run the whole block and a half to give me net. I can literally see the DSLAM and cable junction box from the backdoor but neither will hook me up the ONLY one that will? Herps De Derpa WISP which is so badly set up you can see everyone on a tower through network neighborhood on windows...I'm not shitting you, you can see every.single.person. on the tower through NN on Windows...yeah no, not gonna trust my CC info or my surfing on that shit.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    20. Re:Yes, it could be much cheaper by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      Yes, ad hoc mesh networks with something like this would be awesome.

  2. Rain attenuates the radio signal by duckintheface · · Score: 4, Informative

    The OP says that "The radio component has * low attenuation* in rainy conditions with large refracting raindrops". I think they mean "high attentuation". TFA says that radio is disrupted by rain.

    --
    "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
    1. Re:Rain attenuates the radio signal by BenFranske · · Score: 1

      Glad I wasn't the only one annoyed by that sentence in the summary. The use of the term "while" indicated that the radio was better at one thing and the laser better at the other but according to the summary that's not the case.

    2. Re:Rain attenuates the radio signal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Lower attenuation than through sheet metal? Is that really a selling point?"
      "Well, we can claim it is low attenuation with an asterisk, nobody reads the asterisks."

    3. Re:Rain attenuates the radio signal by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      TBH, I did radio/wireless internet for 4-5 years, back in the early 00's. It was pretty rock-solid, with perhaps one instance of trouble due to weather (during a full-on blizzard... the link dropped packets on occasion, but that was about it. My house antenna was 34 miles away from the ISP's antenna, which was just barely within the 35 mile range.

      Only real issue I had was with the lag, which made it rough for FPS gaming, though doable.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    4. Re:Rain attenuates the radio signal by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      I think they mean "high attentuation". TFA says that radio is disrupted by rain.

      But then they deploy sharks with laser-beams on their heads to swim the signals closer. It's all nicely planned out.

    5. Re:Rain attenuates the radio signal by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      I didn't read the article, but on face value, the part you quoted seems to be comparing the attenuation to that of the laser while it is raining.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    6. Re:Rain attenuates the radio signal by fhage · · Score: 1
      I wonder how well a laser is going to punch through a rain shaft if the microwave signal can't make it. This seems like great tech for temporary links, where someone can tend the optics, but seems dubious for permanent installations. It sure is nice to have a working network during the big ice or snow storm.

      I once had to show I could pass messages by semaphore. (also very limited bandwidth in freezing rain) Gotta love tech where giant robots waving their arms are used to increase link distance and bandwidth.

    7. Re:Rain attenuates the radio signal by jittles · · Score: 1

      Only real issue I had was with the lag, which made it rough for FPS gaming, though doable.

      It was only doable because everyone else had low latency links. If you were in a game where everyone had high latency links like yours, the game would be completely unplayable. As it was, the people who had low latency links probably hated playing with you, and I don't blame them at all.

    8. Re:Rain attenuates the radio signal by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      It's relative: I averaged something like 60ms pings, while everyone else had 20-30ms pings (DSL was still fairly new back then). Not like I was roughing it at 250+ like in the old modem days.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    9. Re:Rain attenuates the radio signal by drolli · · Score: 1

      Why should a radio link have higher latency than a fiber?

    10. Re:Rain attenuates the radio signal by jittles · · Score: 1

      It's relative: I averaged something like 60ms pings, while everyone else had 20-30ms pings (DSL was still fairly new back then). Not like I was roughing it at 250+ like in the old modem days.

      60ms isn't bad. I was expecting somewhere in the 300-500ms range. That is the kind of latency I've seen with other wireless internet links from back in the day.

    11. Re:Rain attenuates the radio signal by MattskEE · · Score: 1

      Implemented well it should have a slightly lower latency because the propagation of signals in air is faster than in fiber optics. But the delay from customer to the ISP is probably only a small part of the latency anyway.

    12. Re:Rain attenuates the radio signal by Bengie · · Score: 1

      60ms is kind of bad now days. I'm no where near Chicago. The lowest in game ping I've seen while playing was 8ms.

      https://lh3.googleusercontent....

  3. Lasers and deformable mirrors arnt expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I don't understand why this is the trend even with the military to avoid laying fibre infrastructure. Looking at that site citing the costs of previous installs and listing the lifetime of the fibre as "20 Years" fibre is a 100 year infrastructure and even if your military base moves or you get a new technology that fibre in the ground will still be there and still be valuable.

    1. Re:Lasers and deformable mirrors arnt expensive by neochubbz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The real beast isn't the labor and cost of laying the line, its the legal nightmare of researching and purchasing the right-of-way. First, you have to run title to determine who owns the right of way, then you negotiate with each property owner, and any one of these property owners can object, causing you to reroute your line.

      --
      Charming man. I wish I had a daughter so I could forbid her to marry one. -Arthur Dent
    2. Re:Lasers and deformable mirrors arnt expensive by cogeek · · Score: 1

      Most property already has utility easements unless they're very rural, even then it's simple enough to seize with Imminent Domain for "the greater good"

    3. Re:Lasers and deformable mirrors arnt expensive by BenFranske · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If it was for base connectivity I would be very surprised if fiber wasn't laid. I am more likely to believe the military use for this was designed for something which can be setup quickly in forward operating locations. Fiber takes time and substantially more infrastructure to install. Theoretically this could be run off a steerable pop-up mast which could be setup in minutes.

    4. Re:Lasers and deformable mirrors arnt expensive by krlynch · · Score: 1

      Eminent != Imminent

    5. Re:Lasers and deformable mirrors arnt expensive by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      simple enough to seize with Imminent Domain

      No, it is anything but simple enough. It is often a legal tie up, and can be very expensive. Even if right of way easements exist, they often not efficient or desirable routes, or even continuous over a long distance.

      There is a real need for hi speed technologies like this in rural areas. LOS has its issues, but if there is a reliable, cost effective solution, then there is certainly a market.

    6. Re:Lasers and deformable mirrors arnt expensive by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      I saw nothing in those links that indicates the military prefers this sort of communication to normal fiber for their US landlocked bases. I'd guess the military probably values that technology for places in which laying down permanent fiber isn't an option. For instance, when a war breaks out, there's a need to set up all sorts of bases and command headquarters in completely unpredictable or currently inaccessible places. Moreover, a laser beam can't as easily be disrupted by enemy ground forces or by bombardment. I'd bet this also has applications for ship-to-ship communications, or maybe ground to air drone as well.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    7. Re:Lasers and deformable mirrors arnt expensive by jhecht · · Score: 1

      It's a solution searching for a problem. The military has been looking at laser links through the air, but those are for non-stationary applications, such as between ships and marine forces on land. The OA talks about civilian uses on land. Claims that outages would be less than five minutes per year are highly weather dependent -- a lot easier to achieve in the Sonora desert than in a rainforest. Construction costs are big issues in urban areas, which is one environment they suggest. Developing countries are another. It's unclear what millimeter band they are using; some would require licensing, at least in the US, which was the rationale for the previous generation of all-optical through the air systems. But that generation has largely vanished.

    8. Re:Lasers and deformable mirrors arnt expensive by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Well, it could be imminent eminent domain in the "we needed it yesterday" cases.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    9. Re:Lasers and deformable mirrors arnt expensive by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Because when your out in the middle of the desert you want to connect your fob to base camp 30 miles away digging and burying lines is time consuming. It is far easier and faster to setup a laser link back to base. We do not live in a world of FTL communications. Therefore calling sat phone ten feet away from sounds just as bad as calling a sat phone half way around the world.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    10. Re:Lasers and deformable mirrors arnt expensive by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Wow it's strange how different the world can be. Here in Norway rural fiber is often a four-way cooperation, the fiber company will lay fiber in a main trench along the public road. The government will typically provide public funding to reach public buildings, schools and so on, businesses will pay to get connected. As for residential homes, if you dig your own foot-deep trench or hire someone to do it at your own cost the fiber company will come put a fiber line in it. And most people jump at the chance of getting state of the art fiber out far beyond where any normal commercial operation would go, typically they see 70-80% sign-up rates. It's a win-win for everyone.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    11. Re:Lasers and deformable mirrors arnt expensive by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Except you need to be a licensed telco with permits to access those utility easements.

  4. The Old is New again by DumbSwede · · Score: 4, Interesting

    45+ years ago when I was a kid and before cellphone towers dotted the landscape there were these funnel shaped microwave repeating towers everywhere that carried long distance phone traffic across the country without wires.

    1. Re:The Old is New again by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

      Obviously people have already forgotten MCI (Microwave Communications inc.)

    2. Re:The Old is New again by craigminah · · Score: 1

      MCI wasn't allowed (or didn't want to pay) to use the phone network that was laid in the ground so they installed microwave towers everywhere. I see high bandwidth lasers only being useful for military-like situations where you are either going to be somewhere for a short time or you need to control the transmission medium. Int he long-term, fiber has to be cheaper with much higher throughput than lasers.

    3. Re:The Old is New again by dave3138 · · Score: 1
    4. Re:The Old is New again by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Interesting

      45+ years ago when I was a kid and before cellphone towers dotted the landscape there were these funnel shaped microwave repeating towers everywhere that carried long distance phone traffic across the country without wires.

      I've worked for just about every phone company... We still have them... everywhere. Fibers replaced microwave in most residential areas... but in areas where you can't dig a trench, we use microwave. Communities on islands, on mountain sides... etc... there are a LOT of microwave dishes along the grand canyon for example. Even in sky rises, a lot of companies will setup microwave dishes in an extra conference room and beam a trunk to another building across the way.

      The problem with microwave is that it doesn't work well in humidity. Fog, snow and rain make it cut in and out. Basically, imagine your DishNetwork/DirectTv signal... it's got pretty much the same problem.

    5. Re:The Old is New again by jfengel · · Score: 1

      Huh. I never knew that.

      Well, now that's a brain cell that I'm never getting back. Now if I can just remember to call the MCI Center the "Verizon Center".

    6. Re:The Old is New again by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      And that is exactly what this system is supposed to improve upon. By using two complementary technologies, they claim they can reliably transmit high quality data no matter what the weather. What isn't clear from TFA is how much of an improvement in speed or cost this is from plain ol microwaves. The unit shown in nice and compact - smaller than the large dishes used in high capacity microwave links - but TFA doesn't directly compare data speeds (or costs or really anything useful) so it's hard to make much of it.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    7. Re:The Old is New again by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      And modems ran at 300 baud. Hard wired telephones carried the Internet because cell phones were too slow. Technology improved. Cables are still used to handle overseas data because sending it 3000 miles underwater is faster than 44,000 miles out and back from space. You use the technology that works.

    8. Re:The Old is New again by itzly · · Score: 1

      Overseas communication also prefers optic cables because of the bandwidth.

    9. Re:The Old is New again by Shatrat · · Score: 1

      You'd be surprised at how many of these we are still using, especially in the far north or the desert areas where it is both flat and sparsely populated.
      Most of those old legacy microwaves only go up to a DS3 though, which is 28 T1s or about 45 mpbs of encapsulated Ethernet traffic.
      Now there is a new generation of microwave gear going in for Wireless ISPs and cellular backhaul. A lot of it already goes up to a gigabit I believe. I'm a fiber guy though so I don't know too much about them.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    10. Re:The Old is New again by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      With fiber you can run a bundle of them, that gives you spacial multiplexing with essentially perfect channel seperation and a capacity that scales linearly with the number of fibers..

      With free space you can put up multiple antennas but the signals they receive will be highly correlated. The result is that when you try and do mathematical elimination to create independent virtual channels the virtual channels end up very noisy. There are gains to be had from multiple antennas but the progression will be distinctly sub-linear.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  5. cheaper perhaps by Khashishi · · Score: 2

    But it sounds inferior in many respects. Lasers require line of sight, which is obviously a problem. We really ought to be investing in quality infrastructure.

    1. Re:cheaper perhaps by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      But it sounds inferior in many respects. Lasers require line of sight, which is obviously a problem. We really ought to be investing in quality infrastructure.

      Are you going to pay for it? Laying fiber is insanely expensive. Not because of the trench or even the fiber... it's the home owners that are the problem.

      Imagine I show up at your house and tell you I'm going to dig an 8' deep trench across your yard for Fiber. What are you going to do? And your neighbor? And his neighbor? ... and the other thousand people whos yards get trenched? Lawsuits... and that doesn't even cover all the roads, driveways and sidewalks you have to dig up.

    2. Re:cheaper perhaps by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Methinks you don't know what "quality" means.

    3. Re:cheaper perhaps by dj245 · · Score: 1

      But it sounds inferior in many respects. Lasers require line of sight, which is obviously a problem. We really ought to be investing in quality infrastructure.

      Are you going to pay for it? Laying fiber is insanely expensive. Not because of the trench or even the fiber... it's the home owners that are the problem.

      Imagine I show up at your house and tell you I'm going to dig an 8' deep trench across your yard for Fiber. What are you going to do? And your neighbor? And his neighbor? ... and the other thousand people whos yards get trenched? Lawsuits... and that doesn't even cover all the roads, driveways and sidewalks you have to dig up.

      Why are you digging a 8 feet deep trench for fiber?!? Laws in different states seem to vary, but between 2-4 feet is plenty. If you use a ditch witch style machine, the trench is only a couple of inches across on the surface. If you wanted to do it really well, you could cut a strip of sod out, but it to the side, and put it back when you were done.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    4. Re:cheaper perhaps by danlip · · Score: 1

      Well, an 8 foot trench means that the next person to come along and dig a 4 foot trench won't cut your fiber.

    5. Re:cheaper perhaps by Nkwe · · Score: 1

      Lasers require line of sight, which is obviously a problem.

      Not if you have the right error correction algorithm. If packet transmitted successfully, send next packet; otherwise increase power and try again. Repeat as necessary.

    6. Re:cheaper perhaps by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Oh my god. Really lasers require line of sight because unless you have very special optics going on light *ONLY* travels in straight lines. I mean this is physics 101 for crying out loud.

    7. Re:cheaper perhaps by itzly · · Score: 1

      Where I live, they just dig up the city streets and sidewalks, rather than the home owners' properties.

    8. Re:cheaper perhaps by itzly · · Score: 1

      If only there was a way to guide the light through a thin flexible piece of glass that you could bury underground...

    9. Re:cheaper perhaps by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I thought that physics for crying out loud was called acoustics, not optics?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    10. Re:cheaper perhaps by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Personally I would offer to dig the trench for them, and/or offer them whatever bribes necessary to get it done faster, keep the workers happy etc. Of course that is because I would love a fibre connection to my house even though I have a 40/20Mbps FTTC install.

      I would also note that in the U.K. an 8 foot or 2.4m deep trench would be below the level of 99% of foundations and be completely unnecessary. The cable TV networks (now almost all owned by Virgin Media) only were only a couple feet deep when installed back in the 1990's.

      Also in the UK that would only be necessary on properties that did not already have ducting for telephone and even then BT are trialling steel reinforced fibre optic cable so you can use drops from telegraph poles where the existing telephone cable enters the property using that method.

    11. Re:cheaper perhaps by bmk67 · · Score: 1

      Imagine I show up at your house and tell you I'm going to dig an 8' deep trench across your yard for Fiber. What are you going to do? And your neighbor?

      What I'm going to do is invite you to connect it to my home while you're at it.

      What my neighbors do is a different story entirely.

    12. Re:cheaper perhaps by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      lasers require line of sight because unless you have very special optics going on light *ONLY* travels in straight lines.

      Maybe if you pointed the laser into some sort of optical cable...

    13. Re:cheaper perhaps by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      Or you could put your cable under the road, like everyone else. Given that the government owns most roads that means a single point of negotiation for the whole job.

    14. Re:cheaper perhaps by afidel · · Score: 1

      Check out this map for an idea of minimum safe frost depths across the country, plenty of populated places are well below 4', and even those that are close to 4' probably have competing uses for that space just below the frost line. Then again with a horizontal bore cable layer it doesn't really matter whether it's 2' or 8' deep, the impact at the surface is all in the weight of the machine and the footprint of its treads.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    15. Re:cheaper perhaps by Bengie · · Score: 1

      The fiber at my house is just as deep and is right next to my underground power line, just like nearly everyone else in the city. I dare someone to cut the fiber, they'll be just as likely to hit the power.

    16. Re:cheaper perhaps by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Cheaper to cut through people's lawns. The city allows this, but only to a select few ISPs to reduce damage to lawns. Any other ISP that wants to break into the market has to figure things out for themselves.

    17. Re:cheaper perhaps by danlip · · Score: 1

      That happens too. The construction workers next to my office building cut both the gas and the power (not on the same day, luckily).

  6. Imminent Domain by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 4, Funny

    Most property already has utility easements unless they're very rural, even then it's simple enough to seize with Imminent Domain for "the greater good"

    Is the domain about the happen any time now?

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:Imminent Domain by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I can do punctuation too. You're welcome.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    2. Re:Imminent Domain by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      Grammar Nazi FAIL, motherfucker. Report to the gas chambers pronto! You are not one of us!

      Not a fail at all. GP nailed it. Perhaps the OP will learn an important lesson: 'tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.'

      And your use of "motherfucker" is kind of strange. Actually, any use of that is kind of strange, IMHO. Most of us are motherfuckers and proud of it. As is anyone who has sex with a female who has given birth. I would hope you will still fuck your wife after she bears a child, especially if you want more children. It does work that way you know. Making sure because you seem to be ignorant in so many other ways. Oh, wait, I get it. You don't have a wife, in fact you never get to fuck anything other than your secondhand fleshlight. And since the only female you ever interact with is *your* mom, that must seem rather inappropriate.

      Things are so much clearer now. Kisses, sweetie!

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    3. Re:Imminent Domain by MattskEE · · Score: 1

      Is the domain about the happen any time now?

      Check your own grammar before pointing out somebody else's mistake. ;-)

    4. Re:Imminent Domain by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Is the domain about the happen any time now?

      Check your own grammar before pointing out somebody else's mistake. ;-)

      I left that as a little gift to the next grammar Nazi.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  7. (Vorsicht vor den Vögel!) damn birds by smoothnorman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A few university set-ups in Germany tried this, (e.g. Hamburg), albeit probably with far simpler specifications as it was some years ago. They had surprisingly frequent problems with birds; birds perching on the towers, birds flying between the source/sink, uzw. Packet loss got enough at one point to contact a local falconer to see if his bird of prey could scare them away. It turned out that the local bakery was too much of a draw. There was whimsical talk of adding a TCP/IP error for bakery janitorial events. I believe they eventually just went with fiber pulled through the sewers ..ja-da

    1. Re:(Vorsicht vor den Vögel!) damn birds by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2

      A few university set-ups in Germany tried this, (e.g. Hamburg), albeit probably with far simpler specifications as it was some years ago. They had surprisingly frequent problems with birds; birds perching on the towers, birds flying between the source/sink, uzw. Packet loss got enough at one point to contact a local falconer to see if his bird of prey could scare them away. It turned out that the local bakery was too much of a draw. There was whimsical talk of adding a TCP/IP error for bakery janitorial events. I believe they eventually just went with fiber pulled through the sewers ..ja-da

      Simple solution: Verstärken die Laser. :)

    2. Re:(Vorsicht vor den Vögel!) damn birds by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      I was about to make the same crack, but in English. Crank that baby up to solar furnace levels of energy. Then, when the bird tries to perch in front of the laser, it gets rapidly cooked and falls. As a bonus, you could start a KFC franchise right below the tower.

      Alternatively (and more seriously), mount several lasers a few feet apart and use channel bonding. If one laser goes dark, turn off its mate in the opposite direction, and try again on a preset schedule. That way, the sending end immediately knows the link is down and can rate-limit the data flow and use fewer links until the problem corrects itself. You'll drop a couple of packets, but the link will hold.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    3. Re:(Vorsicht vor den Vögel!) damn birds by itzly · · Score: 1

      Or, widen the laser beam with optics, so you only need one laser.

    4. Re:(Vorsicht vor den Vögel!) damn birds by deadweight · · Score: 1

      I maintained a laser link once. The tree in front of it grew high enough to block it, so we hired a tree trimmer. He managed to knock the laser off the roof somehow.

  8. So they upgraded the RONJA opensource hardware? by random+coward · · Score: 2

    This seems kinda familiar. Kinda like a project I read about over a decade ago. They just added adaptive optics and a radio link for automation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  9. 2 Gbps replacing Fiber by Lando · · Score: 1

    Sure I suppose it's good enough for a single user, but I think it'll be a bit more expensive to add these in rather than run a set of fiber cables down the road.

    --
    /* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
  10. Comcast, Time Warner, AT&T, and Verizon... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ...aren't interested in quality infrastructure; they're interested in keeping new players out of the markets they currently "serve", continuing to collect rents from the areas they currently "serve", and keeping the FCC impotent and unable to regulate common carriers of internet traffic.

  11. UAV/Drone by spacepimp · · Score: 1

    The benefit of these devices is that they also can help alleviate a good portion the back-haul fiber necessary. I am assuming that this tech is highly similar to what Google and Elon Musk are looking to accomplish. The red tape of entrenched monopolies makes it easier to move the backbone into LEO (Low Earth Orbit). These towers can last mile without needing local fiber to a POP. Somehow it is cheaper to build a global network of satellites/drones than it is to run fiber. That is the extent of the power of the ISP's/telcos in the US.

    1. Re:UAV/Drone by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      Lol, again with the monopoly talk... There is no such thing in the united states.

      Telcos have franchise agreements for POTS (plain old telephone service)
      Cable companies have them for Telvision over coax.

      If you're not using coax, and you're not delivering phone service over twisted pair, there is nothing a local phone or cable company can do to stop you unless you're the actual municipality itself. It's usually in the agreements that local government cannot compete with these sorts of services at all. Hence the municiple fiber kerfuffle. These municipalities are more than welcome to not include that in the franchise agreements, but good luck finding a telco willing to sign that.

    2. Re:UAV/Drone by spacepimp · · Score: 1

      Who owns and controls the Conduit/subways under NYC for fiber to be run? Hint: It used to be Ma Bell.
      Answer: It is a subsidiary of Verizon.

      Verizon does not even in the slightest commit to or have obligations to make conduit space available and it is nearly un-maintained except for in their interests. Tunnels are collapsed, conduits remain full and not expanded.

      If only Verizon controls those conduits, does that make them have a monopoly on perhaps one of the most important data arteries in the country? What is the benefit to Verizon in assisting people in bypassing them with their own fiber when they can charge them whatever they want when they handle those lines?

    3. Re:UAV/Drone by Bengie · · Score: 1

      If you're not using coax, and you're not delivering phone service over twisted pair, there is nothing a local phone or cable company can do to stop you

      Ohh, you mean you don't qualify for easement access? In many areas, only official telephone or cable companies have access to Right of Ways. Obviously electrical, water, and gas also have access. Every city around here has exactly one cable and one telephone company. Adjacent cities may have different phone or cable companies, but only one per city.

  12. Don't be thick in front of me, Al. by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    "Can I build around 50 miles of Tehachapi mountains?"

  13. Waste of time by koan · · Score: 1

    1 reason, adverse weather.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  14. Lasers? Raindrops? by necro81 · · Score: 1

    Hearing about lasers and raindrops puts me in mind of this recent XKCD What-If posting.

  15. Line of site by xaotikdesigns · · Score: 1
    So, unless I'm mistaken, this would require line of site, meaning that unless you put it on only the tallest of cell towers, a tree can kill the signal after a couple years of growth.

    The same goes for any new parking garages that may happen to get built.

    --
    XDInd
    1. Re:Line of site by amorsen · · Score: 1

      Line of sight. Sorry, it's a pet peeve.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    2. Re: Line of site by xaotikdesigns · · Score: 1

      Can I blame auto correct?

      --
      XDInd
  16. Fiber cost by electricalen · · Score: 1

    Why can't Fiber be run along telephone poles, same as power or cable? Fiber is always tagged as expense, but I don't see why it's any different than any other wire that's run to your house. You can combine hundreds or thousands of thin fiber strands into a thicker line that will still fit on a pole.

  17. BT, DT by bware · · Score: 2

    Terabeam Networks, c. 1999. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terabeam
    And they weren't the first.

  18. And we have a winner by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

    Multiple technologies are used by mobile comm units in the military. Setting up the Satellite downlink on one side of the cantonment area and using a laser link to transmit to the ops area sure beats laying fragile cable.

    Or satellite downlink at a single area and using this to distribute to multiple fire bases. Definitely a win.

  19. Friggin' Laser Beams by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    "I get my Internet from SharkNet[TM]. It works better during rain and tornadoes."

  20. whoosh! by Chirs · · Score: 1

    You missed the "increase power" and "repeat as necessary" steps.

    1. Re:whoosh! by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      No you missed your physics classes.

      Increasing the power and repeating will make no difference whatsoever. If there is no "line of sight" then laser transmission without an optical wave guide (aka a fibre optic cable) is a none starter.

      For the purposes of free air laser transmission light only travels in straight lines. That is no gravitational lensing, and no fancy ultra modern optics which basically are of no use in this scenario.

      So repeat after me you idiot no line of sight no transmission.

    2. Re:whoosh! by valinor89 · · Score: 1

      No you missed your physics classes.

      CIncreasing the power and repeating will make no difference whatsoever. If there is no "line of sight" then laser transmission without an optical wave guide (aka a fibre optic cable) is a none starter.

      For the purposes of free air laser transmission light only travels in straight lines. That is no gravitational lensing, and no fancy ultra modern optics which basically are of no use in this scenario.

      So repeat after me you idiot no line of sight no transmission.

      That is true if you live in vacuum...

      The athmosphere will scatter the laser light. If you keep increasing power you might detect that light even if you have no direct line of sight... or melt the planet.

    3. Re:whoosh! by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      The idea behind the "increase power" and "repeat as necessary" parts was that if you increase power *enough*, you'll end up with line-of-sight, even if you didn't have it to start with. (i.e.: You'll burn a hole through any intervening materials.)

      This is also known as brute-force data transmission, and is akin to the old-fashioned, much lower bandwidth LART known as the 'clue-by-four'.

      It's also basic physics.

      Pro tip: The earth is round.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    4. Re:whoosh! by Nkwe · · Score: 2

      The idea behind the "increase power" and "repeat as necessary" parts was that if you increase power *enough*, you'll end up with line-of-sight, even if you didn't have it to start with.

      I am glad someone got the joke. I considered talking about two modes of operation ("line of sight mode" and "make line of sight mode") instead of error correction algorithms, but I thought the error correction thing was more subtle and humorous. I guess it was too subtle. I don't plan on quitting my day job.

  21. dictionary.com by raymorris · · Score: 1

    You might want to look up what "line of sight" means.

    Suppose I point a laser in your direction and you are trying to detect that laser. We're five miles apart. Will you be able to spot that laser on a clear night? Probably not, because there is probably some other building between you and me. Or a tree. Or a hill.

    Go outside and look five miles due west. In all probability you can't, you can only see as far as your neighbor's front door. No amount of error correction is going to fix the fact that there's a friggin house in the way. That's line of sight.

    Suppose we go out to the Bonneville Salt Flats, where there are no buildings, trees, or hills. You hold a laser and shine it toward me, five miles away. Can I see it? Nope, even with no building, trees or hills, the curvature of the earth is in the way. Line of sight is one mean bitch.

  22. Re:(Vorsicht vor den Vogel!) damn birds by LessThanObvious · · Score: 1

    Is it too much to ask to get sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads?

  23. Politicians + incumbent franchises. Underground by raymorris · · Score: 1

    In most places, local politicians have granted exclusive right-of-way access to donors^H^H^H^H^H%H public-minded businesses, like Comcast.

    In many cities, power and cable run underground because poles are "ugly". That's a bit more expensive to do, even if the local politicians allow it.

  24. DARPA Work by braindrainbahrain · · Score: 2

    This reminds me of a DARPA project from a while back that sounds very similiar: The ORCLE program. I wonder if this is an outgrowth from the DARPA funded work.

  25. The year 2004 just called by Dareth · · Score: 1

    The year 2004 just called and they want their 100 million back!

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  26. Vulnerable Infrastructure by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

    If it was for base connectivity I would be very surprised if fiber wasn't laid. I am more likely to believe the military use for this was designed for something which can be setup quickly in forward operating locations. Fiber takes time and substantially more infrastructure to install. Theoretically this could be run off a steerable pop-up mast which could be setup in minutes.

    Fiber can also be cut.

  27. I live 5 miles from AFRL Rome by vandamme · · Score: 1

    Why can I only get internet from Time Warner?