Customers Creating Fake Amazon Pages To Get Cheap Electronics At Walmart

turkeydance writes People are reportedly creating fake Amazon pages to show fake prices on electronics and other items. In the most heavily publicized cases, Walmart was reportedly duped into selling $400 PlayStation 4 consoles for under $100. From the article: "The company announced on Nov. 13 that it would price-match select online retailers, including Amazon.com. However, any Amazon member with a registered selling account can create authentic looking pages and list items 'for sale' online. Consumers need only take a screen capture of the page and show it to a cashier at checkout in order to request the price match."

Comments

wont last

[vux984]

Clever crooks. Always finding the loopholes. This is why we can't have nice things.

Presumably walmart will immediately be limiting this to items only sold and shipped directly by amazon... or they'll drop amazon matching entirely if that's too complicated for their staff.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand why they didn't train their employees to match items sold only by Amazon in the first place.

Re:wont last

[serbanp]

unless they would check the actual link, the price matching based on a lousy printout is unworkable. It's rather easy to photoshop the displayed price to an arbitrarily low value.

Re:wont last

[camg188]

I used to work a second job at Walmart, in the electronics department. At least once a month I would get somebody trying to buy a game system with a bogus coupon. Most of them were $100 off of a Nintendo DS.

Re:wont last

[mysidia]

Is this really a loophole? What happens if I go to amazon.com and find one of these $100 playstations, and quickly buy it, then insist they honor the contract?

Should they fail.... bring it to court, suing them for the difference between the price agreed and the best available offer. Subpoena walmart for records of the price match as proof that the $100 listing for sale was known and intended.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get why you think they are crooks? A fake price is still a price. Just because nobody has ever paid that price does not somehow make it illegitimate.

Re:wont last

[Aighearach]

They may or may not be crooks, but that question likely comes down to pedantic details about what buttons they pushed and if their amazon listing was a legit "limited time offer" or "sale." The bar to prove fraud might be pretty high here, unless they bragged about it loosely on twitter. Which I guess most of them probably did...

Re:wont last

[alen]

good luck. i'm doing jury duty on a civil case in NYC now and the system will break you before you see any money

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this really a loophole? What happens if I go to amazon.com and find one of these $100 playstations, and quickly buy it, then insist they honor the contract?

This is a non-starter. New listings can be created in the Amazon product catalog by sellers who need not have inventory on hand, from what I recall.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

or having a simple rule like if the price differance is more then 15% then you need to get external approval. Probably would need to be built into the POS.

Re:wont last

[Obfuscant]

This. It doesn't take an Amazon account of any kind to create a dummy web page saying whatever you want, including "sold and fulfilled by Amazon.com" or any other magic. Simply "save as" the HTML and then modify to your heart's desire. If all it takes is a printout of the web page, then Walmart are fools and deserve to be taken to the cleaners.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

The bar to prove fraud might be pretty high here ...

Except for the fact that the web pages presented to Wal Mart were
fake and showed "sale prices" which never existed. you might be correct.
As it is, anyone who used a credit card to pay for the stuff they bought
will soon find themselves in deep shit, because this is a FEDERAL crime.

This is simple fraud. Anyone who thinks this is an accomplishment
worthy of pride lacks a basic understanding of the difference between
right and wrong.

By the way, I detest Wal Mart and will never buy anything from Wal Mart,
so don't confuse my opinion with the notion that I have any favoritism
toward Wal Mart.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Refund their money and tell them you ran out and don't understand why Amazon was reporting you had one in stock. Have fun suing me over that from across the country.

Re:wont last

[vux984]

I don't get why you think they are crooks?

Probably because its textbook case of fraud.

A fake price is still a price.

But its being misrepresented as real price, in a real offer to sell real playstations to the real public.

Walmarts price matching policies apply to genuine offers made on the same product by another party to the public. It doesn't apply to fake listings that were never evem intended to be seen, nevermind honored, by the public.

Walmart, should probably demand to see the listing showing a PS4. If the customer can't find it, it its not an offer to the public. If the crook leaves it up so walmart CAN find, it (and just plans to blow off anyone who tries to order one in the meantime) then Walmart should order up 50,000 units. That's "get the full attention of the FBI" money when you don't honor the shipment.

And there's no hiding behind "limited quantity available", or limited time and its already expired offers... because price matching policies tend to exclude that sort of thing too.

Because the objective of price matching policies is to convert a competitors sale to your sale. If the competitor can't fulfill the order then you haven't lost a customer to them and don't need to price match.

Re:wont last

[Charliemopps]

Clever crooks. Always finding the loopholes. This is why we can't have nice things.

Presumably walmart will immediately be limiting this to items only sold and shipped directly by amazon... or they'll drop amazon matching entirely if that's too complicated for their staff.

Walmart promises to price match any competitor, then uses their clout to get the manufacture to package the item differently, specifically for walmart, under a different SKU so the item, is in effect, unique to walmart, and they'll have no one to compete with them.

Fair game I'd say.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

That's pure crap. Walmart may or may not be fools, but they do not deserve to get ripped off.

Are we saying it's okay to take advantage of people now?

Re:wont last

[byornski]

I think the real problem here is that Walmart are trying to overprice people and then console them with the offer that if they can bring in a cheaper price they will honor it. The real solution would be Walmart not overpricing, but clearly they are not prepared to do that so they offer these deals.

These deals trick consumers into thinking that they will obviously get the best deal there as why else would the shop offer this deal. The cashier does not necessarily know how much these items are worth and it is clearly not their fault. It is a large company trying to extort as much money as possible from the people who do not bother. If they are not willing to put in price checks with other shops and keep wanting to overcharge normal customers, then this is the way they must do business.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

I found a loophole. Actually be ready to pay the difference to send Walmart 50,000 units if they order it, go to the store, insert Amazon listing when you're in the checkout (for a few SECONDS), make your purchase, then remove your Amazon listing.

Is this like high frequency trading with Walmart? lol.

Re:wont last

[msauve]

If you think you'll come out ahead by suing for $100, you're sadly mistaken.

Re:wont last

[msauve]

How about a legitimate offer - Playstation for $1, with $499 shipping?

Re:wont last

[ArcadeMan]

And it's even easier to just download the page, edit the HTML and save it again with your new low, low prices.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

You think they're paying their employees enough to actually give a fuck?

Re:wont last

[rmdingler]

Train Walmart employees. Sure.

Make them care enough to do the lengthy, tiresome coupon verification process instead of getting to the next anxious customer in line? Best of luck.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

yes it's okay to take advantage of people. that's how capitalism works.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's called fraud...

Re:wont last

[Bengie]

Are you saying the Walmart staff should have Internet access at their registers?

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd expect that they will set up a verification system, meaning that you will have to submit the link to them and receive a coupon upon verification.

Re:wont last

[Oligonicella]

Then you think wrongly. One can always not purchase at Walmart. You, however, are attempting to rationalize illegal activity.

Re:wont last

[ProzacPatient]

As you can imagine this is potentially illegal in many jurisdictions so these crooks were probably breaking the law to begin with.

I also remember when someone figured out how coupon UPC's worked and got XBox controllers for unrealistic prices. Ultimately I imagine one of the reasons people get away with this type of thing with such ease is because retailer workers paid minimum wage with little or no benefits probably don't care at all.

Re:wont last

[byornski]

Well UK perspective ;)

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

And it's okay to manipulate the commodities market to drive up prices like Goldman did to the Aluminum market?

Re:wont last

[byornski]

Actually I do believe that Walmart are trying to overcharge people for the products they get and I don't think most people would disagree. The main point of my post was that their offer of matching prices encourages people to shop there as it implies that their prices are competitive.

Re:wont last

[dunkindave]

That used to be a trick that stores used for mattresses, maybe they still do. The major companies like Serta, Sealy, and Simmons, would make a different model name for various major stores. Each store offered to beat any other store selling the same , IDENTICAL, item. Since they each sold their own "unique" mattress model they never had to actually match anyone. The fact that Sears' Foo and Wards' Bar were the same mattress, just with a different label and SKU, was of no help to the consumer.

I have seen things like that at Walmart too, like special version of a DVD that contains an extra trailer, or a drill that doesn't come with the carrying case like it does from Home Depot, all differences that cause it to have a different SKU.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize this is WalMart you are talking about, the company that grew to a behemoth by demanding suppliers continually decrease wholesale prices for them and driving earnings by underselling every department store out there, right? They are still brick and mortar, and so sometimes Amazon comes out cheaper, but overpricing is generally not a problem for them.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Because the objective of price matching policies is to convert a competitors sale to your sale

No, it's not. The purpose of Wal-Mart's price matching policy is to drive competition out of business. It's like running a loss-leader sale, where you sell below cost until the competition goes out of business and then hike prices to make up for it later. Mega-Corps like Wal-Mart have deep enough pockets to do this, but it can get them in trouble with regulations covering Monopolistic and Anti-Competitive practices. The "price matching" program is a loophole which allows them to do almost the same thing.
Personally I would suspect that Wal-Mart probably didn't really care, or may have even anticipated such things and intentionally allowed it to happen. It's free advertising, and now the Word is Out that you can get stuff on the cheap from Wal-Mart by "tricking" them. Just in time for the holiday season? The timing is rather suspicious. Sure, they might sell at a loss, but they can easily afford to do it and watch the competition post slow and dismal Holiday sales. Many retailers live or die by the results of this shopping season.

Or put in a more simple fashion- don't be so quick to call these people "crooks", when at the very worst they're taking advantage of a much larger, more pervasive Crook.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

> Is this really a loophole? What happens if I go to amazon.com and find one of these $100 playstations, and quickly buy it, then insist they honor the contract?

Insist all you want, there is no contract until there is an exchange of value aka your card is charged. And your card isn't charged until the item ships.

This is all well established law. Not a week goes by where someone on fatwallet or slickdeals hasn't had an order cancelled because of a misprice on the merchant's part. If they actually charge the card and ship the product, then there is nothing the merchant can legally do about. But until that point, the ball is in their court 100%.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever shopped at walmart? Their prices on most items are as cheap or cheaper than their local competitors. They even have an app that scans your receipt and then looks at advertised deals at other local stores, and then gives you a credit back for any price difference that is found. While there are certainly many things to fault wal-mart for, I can't even begin to fathom how one would argue that they are trying to overprice people.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

As you can imagine this is potentially illegal in many jurisdictions so these crooks were probably breaking the law to begin with.

I also remember when someone figured out how coupon UPC's worked and got XBox controllers for unrealistic prices. Ultimately I imagine one of the reasons people get away with this type of thing with such ease is because retailer workers paid minimum wage with little or no benefits probably don't care at all.

No, they get away with it because the Executives want people to spend money there, even if they take a loss on the product. They can't officially say they're OK with it, because that would make it the same as a "loss leader" sale which is generally viewed as an Anti Competitive Business Practice.

Every one of those sales might represent a $300 loss for Wal-Mart, but each one is also a lost $100 profit for Amazon or other retailers. Wal-Mart can afford to play the long game here, many companies cannot, and poor numbers during Holiday Shopping Season could put them out of business. A drop in profit for Wal-Mart means little or nothing in comparison.

Granted, they would prefer to sell the product for as small of a loss as possible while still reliably taking customers, but this whole deal is a huge amount of free Advertising for them.
As for the fake sites being illegal, well maybe you could argue it's fraud, but that's a bit of a stretch and the only way you'd get in any real legal trouble is if you were an actual business picking them up from Wal-Mart below cost using this type of method, then turning around and re-selling them.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Walmarts price matching policies apply to genuine offers made on the same product by another party to the public. It doesn't apply to fake listings that were never evem intended to be seen, nevermind honored, by the public.

(1) Walmart wrote the rules - live by the sword, die by the sword.

(2) Walmart gets the final say as to when they will and will not pricematch. You can be sure their policy has so many weasel words that they have no legal obligation to do anything if they don't want to. They have 100% of the power in this transaction, that they fail to exercise it diligently is on them.

Because the objective of price matching policies is to convert a competitors sale to your sale.

And the customer's obejctive is to make a purchase for the least amount possible. Walmart is under no obligation to facilitate the customer's objective, ergo the customer is under no obligation to facilitate Walmart's objective.

I never understood why people like you are so willing to side with amoral-by-definition corporations. They aren't people, they don't care about fairness, their one goal is to maximize shareholder profits and so it is assumed that they will stack the deck in their favor. When some little guy comes along and figures out how to reshuffle the deck we should be cheering that someone managed to tilt the playing field a smidge back towards level. Instead guys like you come along and want to give megalocorps the royal treatment.

Re:wont last

[SillyHamster]

No, it's not. The purpose of Wal-Mart's price matching policy is to drive competition out of business.

While they may wish to be the only store around, it'll take far more than price-matching to drive the competition out of business.

Saying that it's the policy's one true purpose is silly.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

> One can always not purchase at Walmart.

That works both ways. Walmart has no legal obligation to do a pricematch. Their own policy says (and has said since the start), "The Store Management has the final decision for matching an online price."

Pricematching fake prices is no different than a store like JC Penny's using fake prices in order to negate their discounts. Scummy but not fraudulent.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Most walmart managers can't even spell amazon.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

I was under the impression that that was already the case. Hopefully Walmart management gets sued and the shareholders can recover the damages caused by this, since that's what they should already do. In fact, the policy should state that a manager is required independently to verify the price, and that it is sold as NEW, by Amazon.com itself, not a "partner," etc., also excluding things fulfilled by Amazon but sold in fact by a third party.

This is kind of a big screwup on the part of Walmart's HQ, and implies a certain desperation on their part.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, pricematching is a scam. it is one of those cases where a handful of people are able to be moderately better off with a lot of effort, but the average case is price inflation. Too many people see former but can't grasp the latter. Human psychology at work.

Re:wont last

[ottothecow]

Serious question. What does walmart think about shipping costs?

They are now closing the loophole to block matching to 3rd party sellers (which is probably fair), but what if the $80 PS4 were legitimate? An $80 PS4 with $350 shipping. The original $80 price was either taken down quickly, or someone tried to buy it (and then had it declared out of stock by the 3rd party seller), but if you sold it for $80 plus a shipping cost to make up the legitimate cost of the unit like many ebay sellers used to do, would walmart honor it or would they try to calculate shipping?

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

They took a $10 off coupon and added a zero?

(My understanding is that coupons have barcodes to actually check the validity of the offer in a database or something.)

I don't know if it would be better to try this scam at a store that constantly uses coupons like a supermarket (which is likely to just reject all expired/bad coupons) or a store that rarely uses coupons (so that it doesn't have a system in-place to check deals). Wal-Mart apparently doesn't have a procedure for verifying price matches.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you could just use the dev tools in IE or the element inspector if using Firefox or Chrome. A bookmarklet called Print Edit does the trick as well.

Re:wont last

[MBGMorden]

Wal-mart isn't overpricing anything. They may have made a fortune, but their margins are pretty darned thin - they make it up on volume. Many sales deals are actually loss-leaders. IE, they get you in the store and hope that you buy enough other stuff to make up their loss.

By price matching, Wal-mart is hoping to get you in THEIR store rather than the competitors. And if you happen to just need to pickup bread, milk, some sheets, and fill your prescriptions while you're there, then they're ok with losing a bit of money on that one price match.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Walmart, should probably demand to see the listing showing a PS4.

Why, would you use a comma like that?

Re:wont last

[Mashiki]

They took a $10 off coupon and added a zero?

(My understanding is that coupons have barcodes to actually check the validity of the offer in a database or something.)

Nope, manufactured their own coupon. It's not hard to do, it used to be a frequent thing on the various underbellies of the internet. And I'm not talking about chans, a bit deeper. The barcode scan is looking to see if it's valid, again--easy to make it work as well. One of the big ones back in '08/09 was for baby formula, people use it to cut other drugs--and would use mules to buy the stuff from walmart, costco, walgreens, etc usually at $200-800 at a time.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a MUCH easier solution to this.

Price matching must be current A N D can not be below the wholesale price.

When I worked for Future Shop(Best Buy), the discount system worked that way. You could buy anything the store carries at cost+X%, but you weren't permitted to use to use a credit card (cause that adds 3% to the cost) unless you used the store's card.

Like, Walmart should simply not price-match Amazon in the first place unless the item is fullfilled by Amazon or the third party seller has been in business for 2 years.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Lassez faire works both ways.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Redundant. That's what the parent said.

Re:wont last

[davester666]

Don't they need it for CurrentC to work? Or will they depend on their customers to have internet access for it to work?

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent AC was being sarcastic, but regardless the concept of fraud is inherent to capitalism. Either you are okay with fraud occurring (and being called out by those duped) or you are willing to see capitalism restrained by regulation.

Capeat Emptor, eh?

Re:wont last

[ArsonSmith]

What's worse, often times Walmart will have them package an inferior product with the same SKU. I remember some Sony monitors that were the exact same Trinitron model but the Walmart ones had a lower max resolution the the ones sold at Circuit City.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Using Latin makes one sound smart. Using it incorrectly shows just what kind of idiot poser you really are.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

To piss you the fuck, off. Glad, I suckseeeded.

Re:wont last

[vux984]

maybe they still do.

Yes. They still do.

just with a different label and SKU, was of no help to the consumer.

Except that you could just buy foo at sears or bar at Wards. I mean its a price matching policy...so if the Foo at Sears is cheaper than the bar at wards, and you think its the same thing and Wards is like 'uh uh different sku' then just drive to Sears. Big deal.

Worst case its a meaningless price matching offer. They are still competing with eachother. Its just slightly harder for the consumer to compare pricing since they have to look at features and specs instead of just SKUs.

FWIW i don't really blame companies for doing this. You call it a "trick" they view it as product differentiation... the carrying case at home depot vs without at walmart... its not really at all about dodging the price matching policy. Its about being able to offer the consumer something different... because if everyone has exactly the same box with the same sku on a shelf, then its just a cutthroat race to the lowest price because there is nothing else to compete on.

Re:wont last

[stephanruby]

It doesn't apply to fake listings that were never even intended to be seen, nevermind honored, by the public.

Amazon allows you to sell a book for one penny and then make your profit on the shipping charge. For all you know, the buyers were doing the same with PS4s and reselling them at cost + shipping. It's probably a great way to get raving 5 stars reviews from your customers. Also since the customers are locked into the shipping charge with the PS4 itself, you could probably upsell them on extra PS4 cables and extra PS4 accessories at a real monster's premium.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Clever crooks. Always finding the loopholes. This is why we can't have nice things.

Presumably walmart will immediately be limiting this to items only sold and shipped directly by amazon... or they'll drop amazon matching entirely if that's too complicated for their staff.

Have you heard the expression "You Can't Cheat an Honest Man".
This was possible because Wallmart also is crooks. If Wallmarts prices were set to what it costs them + the minimum profit they need then they wouldn't have the margin to lower their prices to match the competition.
If Wallmart had been honest to begin with they wouldn't have the price-match campaign (Prices would already have been as low as they could get.) and then they wouldn't have been fooled by this.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Psst.. Don't say the first part of that again.

Re:wont last

[TheRaven64]

The main reason for doing it with mattresses is that it lets brick and mortar stores compete with online and makes price comparisons hard. I looked at some mattresses in a shop, where I could try lying on them, and then tried to check the price online and see if the local store was competitive (I'd accept some premium for being able to try it, but not an extra 100% markup). Not only could I not find the same model online, I couldn't find it in other brick and mortar stores either. I've no idea whether the two that were priced differently were the same, or just nearly the same.

Re:wont last

[xelah]

Because the objective of price matching policies is to convert a competitors sale to your sale. If the competitor can't fulfill the order then you haven't lost a customer to them and don't need to price match.

Only partly. Traditionally, price matching was an anti-competitive measure to support prices. It says to your competitors 'don't both trying to compete on price because we'll just match you and we'll both lose'.

Re:wont last

[gnupun]

Many sales deals are actually loss-leaders. IE, they get you in the store and hope that you buy enough other stuff to make up their loss.

This should be made illegal (like creating fake amazon sales pages), because if Wal-mart is selling item X for cost or at a loss, other retailers will be unable to make a profit by selling item X. Wal-mart, and other retailers, should be made to sell item X for at least y% (say 5-10%) profit margin.

That is, the govt should regulate a minimum profit margin for a product and the minimum margin should vary for different products.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, most of the time it's called doing business, it's only fraud when you get caught, there's not loophole in the law and you don't have friends who can help you bury the mess.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of the time it only goes one way: the way of the strongest.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Walmart should order up 50,000 units. That's "get the full attention of the FBI" money when you don't honor the shipment.

Do you have any idea how Amazon works? Go and try order 50,000 PS4s from a 3rd-party off Amazon now. See how you can't do that because Amazon have stock figures and won't let you? This is no way affects the validity of an offer to sell one PS4 for $100. They could buy that PS4 and pay shipping and replace their own stock once they've sold you one of theirs for $100, that would work, but it would be kind of pointless.

And there's no hiding behind "limited quantity available", or limited time and its already expired offers... because price matching policies tend to exclude that sort of thing too.

They only make so many PS4s each week. No online store will allow you to order them in large numbers. All availability is limited, everywhere.

Because the objective of price matching policies is to convert a competitors sale to your sale.

The world doesn't turn around Walmart's objectives.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice things? Price-matching is despicable. Oh, who could complain about getting a rebate, right? I can and you should too. Price matching is a tactic to prevent competing businesses from entering into a price war. You can't compete on price, because Walmart will match the price every time. For you, the consumer, this means higher prices, because Walmart never needs to offer a price as low as possible for them to get your business. They only need to go as low as the price you find at the competition, and only if you comparison-shop diligently. The competition also have no incentive to lower their prices, because price-matching.

So while I see that faking competing offers to get a low price is fraud, I think Walmart gets what it deserves here.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

>Are we saying it's okay to take advantage of people now?

You mean like walmart does with their employees?

Re: wont last

[tmosley]

It really doesn't, and you don't understand Laissez faire. Next you'll tell us that rape and murder are legal under that system.

Re: wont last

[tmosley]

Except that is completely wrong. Fraud and theft are illegal in free market capitalism. Rape and murder are illegal too.

Why does everyone think they understand and are qualified to speak about and criticize economic systems when they have only the barest idea of what the words even mean, much less the history and principles behind them?

Re:wont last

[tmosley]

Suggest you take your ass to North Korea then.

Re:wont last

[squiggleslash]

Even easier, Inspect Element (built in to virtually every web browser these days) and change the live HTML.

If people knew how easy it was to forge screenshots these days they'd stop believing everything that purports to be one.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what they are paid for. To do work in accordance with company policy.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

It really doesn't, and you don't understand Laissez faire.

No, I understand how it works in reality just fine. You can give me all the bullshit definitions you want, but when put in practice it very much does mean that.

Next you'll tell us that rape and murder are legal under that system.

Since it's an economic policy not a social one, no I wouldn't.

Re:wont last

[Jason Levine]

If loss leaders are made illegal, then most supermarkets in America would need to be charged also. All of them price certain items cheaper than their cost to lure you into the store. Some sales are this way too. They get you into the store promising X at a really good price. And while you're there, they hope you'll impulse-buy Y, Z, and a few other things. This is a standard business practice that everyone engages in, not some shady trick designed to eliminate competition.

(Which isn't to say that Walmart doesn't engage in shady tricks. They definitely do. Loss leaders just don't count as one of them.)

Re:wont last

[Jason Levine]

Walmart price matching is even worse than this. Despite our general dislike of Walmart, there was a toy my son wanted that we were going to buy him. Walmart had the best price on their website so we went into the store and found the toy. Unfortunately, it was more than the price on their website for some reason. We went to the customer service desk and were told they don't price match Walmart.com because the physical store and online store are two separate entities. We could order it from the website, choose "pick up in store", and get that same exact toy from that same exact store an hour later, but they couldn't mark the toy down to the Walmart.com price and sell it to us.

Their price matching policy is completely twisted.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

The law is not that your card is charged. The law is that there is *consideration* in the contract. The consideration does not need to be immediately paid for a contract to be valid.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Only after being proven in a court of law.

The preferred term nowadays is "best practices."

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

The sad part isn't that this got posted.

The sad part is that some other pathetic shitsack decided to spend his mod points to publicly announce his incompetence.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

What happens if I go to amazon.com and find one of these $100 playstations, and quickly buy it, then insist they honor the contract?

"Oops, out of stock! Just ran out before your order came in."

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

if the Foo at Sears is cheaper than the bar at wards, and you think its the same thing and Wards is like 'uh uh different sku' then just drive to Sears. Big deal.

Maybe there is no Sears near you.
Maybe they are out of stock.
Maybe their service sucks.
etc..

Re:wont last

[aurizon]

Ah yes, smart trained cashiers = too costly for Walmart
minimum wage dummies have additional costs. In addition the cashier might be in on it. Just get a friend with a few thousand bucks to buy a 20, one after another as discrete sales.
Sell on Ebay for $300 - repeat as needed.

I expect the plug was soon pulled on this scam because it has such a high degree of viral amplification inherent in it.

Re: wont last

[mark-t]

How was the latin phrase used incorrectly? It seemed entirely relevant, if you ask me.

Re:wont last

[AmiMoJo]

Amazon and eBay both limit shipping costs on things like games consoles, so you can't have them that high. It's a particular problem on eBay because they seem to have set the price at the absolute minimum it is possible to post things for with no tracking on the slow boat.

Re:wont last

[jratcliffe]

Quite a number of states (Cali and Wisconsin come to mind) have laws prohibiting loss leaders, usually only if they're viewed as predatory pricing (i.e. trying to drive competitors out of business).

Wisconsin has a law that sets a minimum margin for gasoline. Idea is to prevent large operators with other revenue streams (i.e. a supermarket with a couple of gas pumps) from selling below cost to bring in shoppers, thereby driving out small operators

Re:wont last

[jratcliffe]

Walmart's cost of goods sold (i.e. the % of revenue that gets spent on the products they sell, doesn't include cost of labor, rent, light, etc.) is 75%, slightly above Amazon's 73%. So, WalMart is, on average, charging a SMALLER markup than Amazon.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a standard business practice that everyone engages in, not some shady trick designed to eliminate competition.

I don't think these are mutually exclusive.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Since it's an economic policy not a social one, no I wouldn't.

It's all about value.

Re: wont last

[cyberchondriac]

Funny, that's how communism works too.

Re:wont last

[cyberchondriac]

If you think you'll come out ahead by suing for $100, you're sadly mistaken.

Well actually, they'd be suing to get the game console for $100, so the assumed net gain would be the difference between the bogus advertised price and the real price: closer to $300 or so; but yeah, that's still not even close to worth it.

Re: wont last

[sumdumass]

I don't think you understand what you are taljing about. Fraud is not inherent to capitalism. Capitalism requires informed parties to be involved which negates fraud. Fraud can only happen when one or more parties either are not informed, purposely misinformed, or there is an out an outright refusal/ability to deliver the product. The later is taking advantage of it and regullation of it isnot regulation of capitalism unless it manipulates the transaction in some way to prevent fraud. This is BTW no different than any other system

Pure capitalism exists in real transactions but not as a pure system in the real world.

Re:wont last

[cyberchondriac]

Troll is obvious troll. Why are people feeding it?

Re:wont last

[cyberchondriac]

Thanks for trying to destroy the country, because with your logic, businesses would fail all over. ("amoral-by-definition"???)
I get so sick of this "Walmart is big corporate evil" mantra. The very fact that Walmart has been taken in by this scam several times only illustrates that they make a good faith effort to honor their deals.
I'm not thrilled with the whole stockholders model anymore either, (customers and employees should be more important) but Walmart is no worse than anyone else.. why isn't Target a target, for example? or Macy's? or Lord and Taylors? They they treat their people any better, or have fairer prices? The only reason Walmart is attacked so much is because the family are known conservatives.

Re: wont last

[sumdumass]

Its because they have to take econ 101 as part of their degree but see it as one of those courses they just need to get out of the way so they do not do much more than what is neccesary to pass it

You see the same things when people take psych 101 also. It gives just enough info to understand what is being presented but is dangerous to assume you know it all

Re:wont last

[cyberchondriac]

So does every other major retailer. But the fact that Walmart was actually honoring these prices matches kind of takes the wind out of your sails.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Or even easier...paste this into the address bar:

javascript:document.body.contentEditable='true'; document.designMode='on'; void 0

Now use the browser as a live content editor...put your cursor anywhere and start typing, then print :)

Re: wont last

[bluefoxlucid]

Because people are simple, and everything is both simple and complex. I can explain to you how to solve poverty; the solution is simple, but incredibly nuanced. It's a very short list of policy features, but it avoids an incredible number of policy features that would create sub-optimal or even destructive results. It relies on a handful of economic concepts which, when explained, amount to massively complex interconnected systems, which in turn come down to simple human behavioral psychology, which in turn becomes incredibly complex when examined deeper.

People are often keen to take the simplistic--supply and demand versus competition--and claim simple behaviors. Supply of houses? Prices will come down because more houses can be built, more apartments can be offered. This explanation ignores risk, ignores the cost risk of building more housing such that supply exceeds demand, ignores the nuanced scarcity of housing (there's plenty, but you can only get a given apartment or house at a given time, and they're all non-fungible), and ignores that people will routinely pay the common above-cost price even if some other market player has the same good cheaper. Prices don't just continuously drop when competition shows up; prices can even creep upwards in a competitive market, as competitors learn that a $500 good and a $515 good both sell, and then everyone sells it for $515 until some competitors start selling it for $530 and don't take a loss in sales volume.

People don't like this. They say, "No, you would lower your price to attract more business. If one person did it and then had more business than he could handle, and the others didn't drop prices, another competitor would enter the market at the low price." That doesn't fucking work.

Re:wont last

[JackieBrown]

If that were the case here, Walmart would not be out any PS4s.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

That is not right. I just built a system that charges the user before the item ships.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

This would probably be small claims unless you somehow got it to be a national class action. Walmart is not likely to even show up and in some jurisdictions legal representation is discouraged to reduce costs and complexity. Quick in and out with the add having the price, Walmart's price matching add, and the receipt showing they didn't match. Unless Walmart could show that you falsified the low price you have an excellent chance of winning.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

The main reason for doing it with mattresses is that it lets brick and mortar stores compete with online and makes price comparisons hard. I looked at some mattresses in a shop, where I could try lying on them, and then tried to check the price online and see if the local store was competitive (I'd accept some premium for being able to try it, but not an extra 100% markup). Not only could I not find the same model online, I couldn't find it in other brick and mortar stores either. I've no idea whether the two that were priced differently were the same, or just nearly the same.

There's a whole art to matress/bed comparison shopping precisely because of this practice. Basically you compare spring count, types, coil gauge (thickness), skirting (the fabric), pillow top, and maybe 1 or 2 others I'm forgetting. There's a couple of great how-to websites that deeply cover (pun intended) this subject.

Re:wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Because price controls and government economy planning have worked all the previous times they have been tried. See Venezuela for a good, recent example.

Re:wont last

[Pope]

I have seen things like that at Walmart too, like special version of a DVD that contains an extra trailer, or a drill that doesn't come with the carrying case like it does from Home Depot, all differences that cause it to have a different SKU.

That's a bit different, since they tend to be overtly marketed as "retailer-exclusive versions" in the case of DVDs (eg. Steel case edition only available at Best Buy, extra trailer only available at Target, etc.)

Re:wont last

[Pope]

That, and the entire mattress industry is a scam.

Re:wont last

[denzacar]

then insist they honor the contract?

Should they fail.... bring it to court

Who "they"?
Is "they" Amazon?

If so, from my personal experience in dealing with returns of damaged items and refunds for rather costly postage (more than the value of the items), your claim will be forwarded to their customer support somewhere in India.
Then it becomes a waiting and an e-mail game.
Then you get a refund.

I've actually had a case where they would refund me a wrong sum, first a completely unrelated smaller one to which I complained, then a complete sum they owed me.
Then I had to remind them that they've overpaid the return, to which they replied "Meh, just keep it."

All you have to do is be persistent and courteous. And you need to have a reason for your claim.

Re:wont last

[luther349]

this story a bit old now but i talked with some walmart employees on this matter and some where smart enough to go wait this isnt right but then there manager would approve it.

Re:wont last

[afidel]

Small claims court, no way does a PS4 level claim make it to a jury.

Re:wont last

[arvindsg]

Its strange to see people talking about a corporation deserving to be taken to cleaners for being fools, but same company is classified evil for launching a slimy scheme trying to benefit on gullible people. People and their companies are evil, not companies.

Re:wont last

[Straif]

There are so many problems with your idea that I have to assume you've never actually shopped anywhere, ever.

Who determines the "minimum profit" in your proposal? I'm assuming the Government has to set all industry profit rates to prevent price variances.
In your world are all suppliers prices fixed? Can they never drop prices to clear inventory? Can they never reduce production costs to be able to lower wholesale pricing?
Are loss-leaders outlawed?
The questions and problems with your simplistic view, are endless.

There are literally hundreds of ways one store can acquire inventory cheaper than another. Sometimes it's a pure numbers game (Walmart's specialty), other times it just a timing issue (end of life cycle dumping by supplier) and sometimes you may just be able to get in on a one time sale (another store/supplier closing and selling off stock).

Re:wont last

[Straif]

I can't say I've ever seen someone complain about price matching before. What exactly prevents a store from competing on price, even with Walmart's price matching policy in place?

There is no law stating you have to shop at Walmart and if a store routinely has lower prices than them most people will go there rather dealing with the hassle of having to have every item price matched? For Walmart, if they are seeing a competing store routinely undercutting their prices they will adjust to compete. That's a rare occurrence, since Walmart has the purchasing muscle to throw around, but it can happen.

Price matching is generally only used on sale items or one or two regular purchases and generally as a convenience so that you don't have to go to another store to continue your shopping. Of course Walmart and other price matching stores hope you don't find the lower price somewhere else but how exactly does the fact that if you do they will match it impact pricing as a whole?

Re: wont last

[Obfuscant]

yes it's okay to take advantage of people. that's how capitalism works.

What I wrote was in the context of "if they decide that all it takes is showing a checkout clerk a printed page that says someone else sells the same thing for less". You have to believe that SOMEONE in the Walmart organization in the chain of command that made that decision would think "wait a minute, we SELL computers and printers that can be used to print out anything the customer wants" and put some better limits on the process. They chose not to. That there are valid reasons to make that choice doesn't remove the fact they did choose.

I'll also say that I see a difference between "deserves to be" and "is legal and appropriate for someone to do to them". Does Walmart deserve to have it happen to them based on their decision? Does that make it right for people to do it to them? No.

What's interesting about your comment is that you refer to the Walmart corporation as "people". In the comment just above yours on my page I see:

People and their companies are evil, not companies.

Which is an interesting contradiction. "People and their companies" includes "companies", so how can it be wrong to refer to companies as evil? And how can anyone believe that a reference to "companies" doesn't include the people who are necessary to create and run them? Until Bender or Colossus start filing incorporation papers, people are an inherent part of any company and in any reference to the ethical nature thereof.

Re: wont last

[suutar]

Only if you're lying. If you're taking advantage of ignorance, desperation, and/or gullibility, but your statements are not false and do not imply falsehood to someone who actually knows what's going on, it's just "good marketing".

Re:wont last

[Zaiff Urgulbunger]

Simply "save as" the HTML and then modify to your heart's desire.

You don't even need to work that hard - just press F12 and edit the live page and print! I can't believe how dumb Walmart are... or maybe I can.

Re:wont last

[pr0fessor]

Walmart is generally cheaper than other stores where I live by a large margin as for online... depends what and how much you are getting and whether you can wait for it to ship.

Re: wont last

[operagost]

Um... producing a document that claims another company is offering an item for sale at a certain price when none of that information is true is definitely "false" and fraudulent.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course not. But every single other retailer that does the amazon price matching thing does has those rules already. If wal-mart does not then they do deserve it. If their employees are too poorly trained, then yes, wal-mart deserves it.

No one deserves to be stolen from, but this is not the ideal world you fantasize about in your head. Take measures to prevent theft or get stolen from. People can't be trusted.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

If that's what it requires, then yes.

But that will require billions, and retraining, and...

y'know I know this will sound completely fuckball a crazy but hear me out. This can be achieved with one internet connected computer! Just one! Make all of these price matchings be approved by the manager who can totally be trusted with something as complicated as the internet.

I do this all the time, actually. Especially at fry's. "Oh, that is 30% lower and will require approval by my manager". This has been policy for years and I take advantage if it obviously.

It blows my mind that wal-mart didn't take a look at how every other retailer has dealt with this situation before they did.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

CAVEAT, I presume.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Best post I've seen in a long time.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

In this case, caveat vendor would be the appropriate Latin.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Some slave owners did argue that it was against the free market to make slavery illegal, and that slavery was good because when a dollar value was attached to a slave, the slave would be seen as a valuable investment that an owner would protect and nurture.

Re:wont last

[vux984]

How about a legitimate offer - Playstation for $1, with $499 shipping?

I'll take 50, don't bother shipping them I'll send a van to pick them up.

If you can supply in bulk, I'll take 100,000 and will handle all arrangements to have a container and loading crew sent over.

Seriously, unless shipping is separately negotiable or there is an option to let me pick it up myself, how about we just recognize it as a legitimate offer to sell a playstation 4 for $500.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that is completely wrong. Fraud and theft are illegal in free market capitalism. Rape and murder are illegal too.

Why does everyone think they understand and are qualified to speak about and criticize economic systems when they have only the barest idea of what the words even mean, much less the history and principles behind them?

Maybe they feel like you? Because fraud theft rape and murder all have nothing to do with free market capitalism. They're illegal under government regulated systems.

Re:wont last

[nbritton]

But its being misrepresented as real price, in a real offer to sell real playstations to the real public.

Assuming they sell you the ps4 on amazon for $100, if they put up on amazon that they'll sell you a ps4 for $100, then go buy it from walmart and sell it to you it's not fraud. Heck they could sell it to their friends, although that would probably be conspiracy.

Re: wont last

[baristabrian]

You mean: "I don't want to answer the question, because I'm a flaming, disingenuous hypocrite?"

Re: wont last

[baristabrian]

Personally, I tend to see people who believe that "give a fuck" is something that can be *bought* as spiritual reprobates. Just saying.

Re: wont last

[dave.haku]

Of course not. But every single other woman that wants to go out at night and have fun do carry a mace can already. If this particular woman does not then she deserves it. If she's too naïve, then yes, she deserves it.
No one deserves to be raped, but this is not the ideal world you fantasize about in your head. Take measures to prevent getting raped or mugged. People can't be trusted.

Re: wont last

[leslie.satenstein]

Except that is completely wrong. Fraud and theft are illegal in free market capitalism. Rape and murder are illegal too. Why does everyone think they understand and are qualified to speak about and criticize economic systems when they have only the barest idea of what the words even mean, much less the history and principles behind them?

Its legal fraud if you pay cash. (Cash is hard to trace) and get away with it. I suppose you could bring the item back as an unopened return and get cash back.

Re: wont last

[Anonymous Coward]

Econ 101 is all about externalities, yet because people have been taught their whole lives that capitalism is social Darwinism, that is what they take away from the class.

Re: wont last

[jbee02]

I would have called bs on that customer if he tried to pull the ps4 for under a $100.

Re: wont last

[ilsaloving]

Hey now... If politicians can do it, why can't everyone else?

Re: wont last

[suutar]

Agreed. I was trying to address the more general "it's okay to take advantage of people; that's how capitalism works".

Re:wont last

[vux984]

Maybe there is no Sears near you.
Maybe they are out of stock.
Maybe their service sucks.
etc..

Maybe. But then why should Wards price match for you?

You clearly can't or won't go to Sears, so if you want a mattress you'll pay Ward's asking price.

Re:wont last

[vux984]

makes price comparisons hard.

Right. Sums it up. Online or otherwise, two local stores or otherwise.

You can check things like technology, spring count, spring gauge, coil counts, meterials, dimensions, etc but at the end of the day your right... you still just don't know if what you are getting online is the same as the bed your lay on at the store.

And even if the specs seem to line up, it may or may not be the same thing.The building materials (fabric quality), general construction / craftsmanship, and QA still may not be the same. Whether you care or not is a separate question.

It may be just as comfortable and just as good in every way. Or the online version may have cheaped out some other place you didn't think to look, perhaps they skipped a QA step so you may or may not get a good unit, or even worse... maybe your getting the stuff that didn't quite meet the store brand's standards. So they slap a different model number and off-name brand badge on it and unload it somewhere else.

I used to recall it said that generic film and fuji film were made in the same plant and were the same thing. Technically they were or at least could be the same some of the time. But the QA and acceptance standards on the stuff that got sent out with the fuji brand conformed to markedly higher standards.

So upshot was the off brand stuff was just as good, except when it wasn't.

So online pricing being lower vs shops is not completely a scam, nor is it 'just mattresses'... nearly all furniture is like this.

Re:wont last

[msauve]

I see what you did there - completely avoided the point. Try to pull your "I'll pick it up" shtick with Amazon, it won't work. They don't combine shipping, either.

Re:wont last

[vux984]

I see what you did there - completely avoided the point.

What was your point? That playing transparent games to shift the value of the transaction to another 'line item' in the transaction isn't going to fool anybody with half a brain?

Because you could offer "Buy this potato for $499 and then get a Playstation for $1 too."

Should a price matching policy be therefore bound to sell anyone of those people $1 Playstations also? Or do they get to force you to match the whole deal... 1 potato, plus 1 playsation for $500?

Hell... buy one get one half off deals. Same thing... you don't get to look at the get one half off part, separate that as its own thing and then ask someone to price match at 50% off.

What's the difference?

Either way its always super discounted price on X is contingent on you paying X + Y. And price X only available in that arrangement. Therefore the price is X+Y. Not X.

Oh and the potatoe idea is a great tax dodge too! because basic food stuffs are usually exempt and/or zero-rated. So buyers only owe tax on the 1$ potatoe. I bet the local tax collection authority will be helpless against this. Helpless... or they'll string you up for tax evasion. Probably the latter.

Re:wont last

[msauve]

Such an offer can be completely legitimate, and is not fraudulent. Sorry for your lack of reading skills, keep trying.

Re:wont last

[vux984]

Such an offer can be completely legitimate, and is not fraudulent. Sorry for your lack of reading skills, keep trying.

Sure its a legitimate offer. It's a legitimate offer to sell a Playstation for $500.

And by the way, offering a free or $1 Playstation with purchase of a $499 potato and sales avoiding taxes would land you in trouble. Practically everywhere has clauses like:

âIf various elements of a bundled service are not naturally bundled in the ordinary course of business, it shall be treated as provision of a service which attracts the highest amount of service tax.â(TM)

And the 'ordinary course of business' is not the ordinary course of -your- business, it looks at the entire market.They can also look at your own books and records to establish taxable amounts -- just because you wrote $499 potatoe, $1 ps4 doesn't mean they won't decide $499.80 ps4 $0.20 potato based on your own accounting records.

Re: wont last

[doccus]

Well, the highly influential Adam Smith at first believed in unfettered capitalism, but certainly later on had a change of heart, when he, well, grew one. He eventiually found it to be an absolute impediment to a proper economy.

Re:wont last

[The New Guy 2.0]

There needs to be a more secure system for coupons, as right now the barcode doesn't have enough data space to communicate what the offer exactly is. They need to move to 2D style codes such as QR in order to be secure.

Genius.

[cosm]

People's ingenuity and tenacity to game the system never fails to amaze me.

Re:Genius.

[jratcliffe]

There's "gaming the system" and there's fraud. This isn't clipping Home Depot coupons and taking advantage of Lowe's willingness to accept competitor coupons. This is forging your own Home Depot coupons on your computer, printing them out, and using them at Lowe's, since you know that Home Depot won't accept the forgeries.

Re:Genius.

[Aighearach]

Interesting, but in the summary they don't say anything about forgeries, they talk about people with amazon seller accounts creating sales in order to have them matched. That is nothing at all like your example. In fact, your example looks to me like an intentional fraud; it claimed to have a relevant point, and even had the form of a point, but didn't match the accusation at all.

Re:Genius.

[timeOday]

This is basically just price-tag switching. In the olden days of stick-on price tags it wasn't considered terribly clever to do this!

Re:Genius.

[vakuona]

It is fraud if you create a web page purely to deceive Walmart into giving you a discount on a product you had no intention of selling for the price.

It is deeply dishonest, and there is no other excuse for that behaviour.

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations. It takes quite a bit of willful ignorance on your part to miss his point. Quite the troll.

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting, but in the summary they don't say anything about forgeries, they talk about people with amazon seller accounts creating sales in order to have them matched. That is nothing at all like your example. In fact, your example looks to me like an intentional fraud; it claimed to have a relevant point, and even had the form of a point, but didn't match the accusation at all.

Pro Tip :

The "Sales" which were "created" ARE part of a scheme to defraud. They were not
genuine sales, and that is a key point which will be used to convict the perpetrators.

.

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

People's ingenuity and tenacity to game the system never fails to amaze me.

This is not genius, it is a simple con game.

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

Convict? Only if they can find these people and prove it was them who made the page. It seems pretty unlikely that they'd waste their time with that.

Re:Genius.

[Tablizer]

Is it really "deceive" or just following the rules as written?

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

Create Web page with deeply discounted console.

Buy 3, or more PS/4 From Walmart.

Sell one for the advertised price--making it not fraud.

Sell another for 3x the price you advertised the first one at.

Keep one for yourself.

Profit!

In the stock market its called short selling.

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

Legally speaking, it's a bit more complicated, I think. The original creation of the "fake" Amazon page is most likely fraudulent (on the assumption it was created to defraud a price-matching seller, or to defraud a putative purchaser from the Amazon page itself), but it's probably not technically fraud for another person with no connection to the creator of the page or who has no "actual knowledge" that it's fake to take advantage of it. It would be like trying to get a price-match on a printed advertisement that "appears to be" a typo. You wouldn't be able to force Walmart to match the price, but you wouldn't be liable for fraud if they did.

Re:Genius.

[Oligonicella]

It is really deceive - without the scare quotes no less.

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

An example of a moral crime. Is it really immoral to fraud a company which systematically refuses to pay its workers anything near a living wage?

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it's still immoral.

Re:Genius.

[FlyHelicopters]

Is it really immoral to fraud a company which systematically refuses to pay its workers anything near a living wage?

Yes, because two wrongs don't make a right. Or did your parents not teach you that?

If you punch me, does that mean I can punch your sister? Does that make it "ok"?

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. Yes. Please do. Punch my sister. It is very okay. She deserves it.

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

People who say 2 wrongs don't make a right are usually the victims of the second wrong. In other words, you're a bleeding vagina and you can't take a punch. Vengeance is a perfectly acceptable form of justice.

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll punch you both, then you can punch each other. That way it is fair.

Re:Genius.

[Neil Boekend]

If you can deceive while following the rules as written then it doesn't stop being deceiving. That just means the rules are poorly written.
See tax evasion.

Re:Genius.

[bloodhawk]

It is complete and utter fraud, no ifs or buts. The intention of the fake listing is purely to defraud Walmart. This is not a shades of grey situation, it is straight out criminal behavior that should see them if caught be prosecuteded

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, many, if not most Americans, believe that this is true. Anytime someone says another person "deserved" something bad happening to them, they justify this type of behavior. Americans are scumbags and our disgusting culture will eventually defeat itself (thankfully).

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't the question be: If you punch my sister, is it OK for me to punch you.

Re:Genius.

[Jason Levine]

Here's a test: The person is creating an Amazon seller page and marking the item as "on sale" for a deeply discounted price, right? What if a few people were to find the page and order the product? Would the "seller" be willing to fulfill the order at that price? If so, then perhaps he isn't committing fraud. If the orders would be cancelled for no reason, the account closed, and a new one opened, then this is just fraud.

Re:Genius.

[jratcliffe]

"they talk about people with amazon seller accounts creating sales in order to have them matched"

No, they're not creating "sales." They're creating sales pages they have no intention of actually delivering. Unless you think that the people pulling this scam would have happily shipped out hundreds of PS4s at $80 each, when the orders came in.

Re:Genius.

[Anonymous Coward]

He is right his sister does deserve to be punched. I mean last night I performed the always enjoyable donkey punch and she asked for seconds!

Re:Genius.

[cyberchondriac]

There's "gaming the system" and there's fraud.

That's a very, very, fine line. Gaming the system is in many ways fraudulent.

This isn't clipping Home Depot coupons and taking advantage of Lowe's willingness to accept competitor coupons.

Not sure if this is your example of gaming the system.. because it's not, it is the system, as intended. Lowes does that to attract more business.

Re:Genius.

[FragHARD]

Well....... just look at the crowd that 'shops' walmart and you can figure out that they don't care about repercussions and just want something for nothing :)

Re:Genius.

[Aighearach]

It is fraud if you create a web page purely to deceive Walmart into giving you a discount on a product you had no intention of selling for the price.

It is deeply dishonest, and there is no other excuse for that behaviour.

Yes, if you tell the lawyer suing you, or the cop investigating you, "yeah, I had no intent at all to sell for that price, durhur" then that is fraud.

If you don't say anything at all, how do they prove that your intent was fraudulent, rather than that your limited time promotion just didn't have any takers, and then you reconsidered it?

Just waving your hands and saying "fraud" because you think it is obvious is different than saying it is demonstrable that it is fraud. It might be very difficult to establish criminal intent rather than incompetence. And without a confession, you'd never demonstrate that it was "purely" to deceive.

Re:Genius.

[Aighearach]

It is complete and utter fraud, no ifs or buts. The intention of the fake listing is purely to defraud Walmart. This is not a shades of grey situation, it is straight out criminal behavior that should see them if caught be prosecuteded

If you're not going into the ifs and buts, you're going to fail to prove intent at all. You'd in fact have to go there just to make your accusation anything more than raw assertion.

It is in fact all shades of gray, rather than without them. Proving somebody else's intent takes more than simply feeling more strongly that they must be lying. ;)

What about a person really did have a big sale at below cost, and really did also buy one from their competitor at a matching price for their own use, because they knew it was below cost? What about a legit competitor who is trying to incite a price war by selling below cost, and then buying from his competitor at the same price, believing his competitor to be somebody who gets more butt-hurt by losing money and who has less stomach for the price war? Obviously that would be stupid if the other guy is Walmart, but stupidity isn't fraud.

This is just a couple seconds worth from a layperson. Actual criminal liability requires a giant stack of "ifs [and] buts." And fraud isn't "strict liability," it requires intent, so it can't be without gray areas. Anything involving intent is mired in gray.

Re:Genius.

[Aighearach]

The real key from the perspective of the crooks doing it, and the cops if it is not ongoing, is if such order were actually placed. If they manage to find a way to keep orders from being placed that can't be proven as intentional, if they can accidentally or through mild incompetence passively prevent any orders, then it is probably difficult to establish their intent. Obviously in the case where orders were made and canceled by the seller, than that becomes a slam dunk for a prosecutor. Without that, I doubt they go to court unless you bought at least $5000 worth of something.

Re:Genius.

[Aighearach]

An example of a moral crime. Is it really immoral to fraud a company which systematically refuses to pay its workers anything near a living wage?

If you've asserted that it is fraud, then of course it is immoral to do it. Any defense of the morality has to deny that there was fraud, and claim the rules are simply favorable to people who understand some aspect of it.

Re:Genius.

[Aighearach]

You can't demonstrate that there was no sale unless there is an unfulfilled order, or the seller indicates that they would not have filled orders. If nobody ordered anything, it is just an unknown, and unknowns require giving everybody the benefit of the doubt.

It doesn't matter what I think they would do theoretically. What matters is what did they actually do? If no orders were placed and they say that they would have honored any orders made, well, maybe they would have. I've pointed out mistaken sale prices in stores over a dozen times in my life, and maybe 2 or 3 times the store gave me the price the sticker said, because they were just that honest. The rest of them all said, oh no, that isn't the "real" price, that is just a printing error. The ones who honored the price weren't being fraudulent at all, and before they honored the price, they weren't being fraudulent either. By your claim, you can say that in those real situations they were already being fraudulent before they gave me the posted price, simply because you don't believe them that they will honor it. They probably won't, but they might, and you can't say they didn't honor it without attempting the purchase.

Re:Genius.

[jratcliffe]

So, your argument is that someone:

1. Created a page at Amazon listing a $400 game console at $80, which would net them maybe $70, after fees.
2. Went into Walmart, and used that page to get the console for $80, plus tax.
3. Planned to sell that same console to whoever bought it through the Amazon link, losing $20 or so on each console.

Yes, that's theoretically possible.

It's also theoretically possible that they were purchasing test units for the Archons of Centauri 7, who will then gift us with their technology for unlimited clean energy, but have a religious objection to paying more than $80 for a PS4.

Retailers have the right to correct pricing errors, if they were clearly errors (i.e. Xbox for $40 rather than $400). This was no pricing error - there's no way the Amazon seller/Walmart buyer can argue that he made a pricing error on his webpage, but at the same time demand that Walmart match the pricing error.

Re:Genius.

[Aighearach]

No, you miss the entire point; fraud is not the default. The default is that they are innocent. Accusing them of fraud, you have to have some reasonable proof about their intent. That their actions look suspicious does not establish anything at all about their intent. It is not a valid basis for claiming that what they did was fraud, certainly not to claim it was clearly so. So if a person says, "gee, that looks like it might have been fraud to me" then that is a reasonable thing to say. If a person says "that is clearly fraud," well no, that is clearly a false accusation, and even slanderous. There has to be something that establishes their intent, for example if they actually did refuse orders for that price.

Selling something at a loss does not establish any mal-intent at all.

Amazon doens't charge the same price to everybody!

[The New Guy 2.0]

Retail stores have a hard time changing prices as prices signs and labels are regulated by state law... Amazon can very easily change the price in cookie-based pages. I'm not sure why Wal-Mart thinks they can price match when that happens.

walmart's fault...

[Anonymous Coward]

but i'm sure it will be clarified to exclude third-party merchants on sites such as amazon... and the screenshot must show the actual product page and price for 'ships and sold by amazon.com'

accepting customer-provided proof of an online price is crazy stupid to begin with.. those things should be verified... and if the walmart manager can't verify for themselves, they should tell the customer to take a hike and buy it from the supposedly 'lower priced' source.

no seller account needed

[Anonymous Coward]

only firebug.

Try it, go firebug an amazon page, screen cap that. done, easy, 30 second investment.

Re:no seller account needed

[watermark]

Same thing came to mind

Re:no seller account needed

[Jason Levine]

Or, if you're using Chrome the built-in Developer Tools. Even IE has built-in tools to manipulate live HTML. Hey, this iPhone is on sale for $79.99!

(NOTE: I don't actually advocate altering a page, printing it out, and getting a price match on the altered price. That would be fraud. That said, it can be fun to mess with the live HTML of web pages.)

Scam's Already Been Stopped

[jratcliffe]

WalMart's already wised up, and changed the rules. Now it only applies to items on Amazon SOLD BY Amazon. No more marketplace sellers.

http://consumerist.com/2014/11...

Re:Scam's Already Been Stopped

[Anonymous Coward]

But are they still letting you just print things off and accepting them as truth? Someone ought to tell them about Chrome or Firefox's developer modes. Or Photoshop, or...

Re:Scam's Already Been Stopped

[jordanjay29]

Better yet, my local Walmart always has THE WORST connections in store. If I stand by the doors, I can maybe get 3G, usually 2G. It drops off immediately once I enter the store. This necessitates loading any webpages I want before I get in the door, so I could easily take a screenshot or create a local page and cashiers would be unable to verify if it was fake due to my lack of connection. The only way they could verify it is by looking it up themselves, but Walmart doesn't have internet-connected registers.

Re:Scam's Already Been Stopped

[jellomizer]

You could do that...
However if they do check out the forgery they will probably treat you like a shoplifter.

I have no love for Walmart. But part of the reason why companies treat the customer like they are criminals is because too many are.

It is one thing to steal food to feed your family if you can't afford it. But a play station?

And no Fat Tony defense.

Re:Scam's Already Been Stopped

[Pope]

The building is likely heavily steel-framed.

Re:Scam's Already Been Stopped

[luther349]

this was not the only glitch sears miss priced a wii-u for 90$ they quickly fixed it but people took the glitched price to Walmart and got wii-u for 90$ so it was from a totally legit site.

Re:Scam's Already Been Stopped

[Anonymous Coward]

Fair is fair in that situation... unless Wal-Mart has a disclaimer about not honoring misprints.

Wal-Mart should do what Fry's does. Have a place where they can print an invoice for the price match, if it's true as someone else says, they don't have Internet-connected registers. In this situation, only one computer would be needed to verify.

Already fixed

[Anonymous Coward]

They had forgotten the "by" amazon and not just any other reseller on amazon.

Re:Already fixed

[DiamondGeezer]

A simple fix (why am I helping Walmart? Because fraud is fraud) is to present the evidence to a customer information point, where they will check whether the price given is actually offered by Amazon and give a voucher with a code of some kind which can be used at checkout.

Result: Fraud stopped in its tracks.

Re:Already fixed

[Jason Levine]

Target does something like this. If you want to price match against Amazon, you take the item to the customer service desk, not the register. There, they look at the Amazon page, approve the price matching, and you buy the item right there at the matched price.

This way, you only need to train the customer service desk folks, not everyone who works a register.

Uhm... edited HTML?

[The New Guy 2.0]

Wal-Mart shouldn't be relying on paper printouts... can't those be easily be faked?

Re:Uhm... edited HTML?

[Anonymous Coward]

That was my thought. And fixing it so only "sold by Amazon" products are allowed doesn't count if they're still accepting print-outs as proof.

Re:Uhm... edited HTML?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is quite bizarre that they're accepting print-outs. Never seen this before at any retailer, always had to tell them where to find it, then they bring up the web page themselves to verify. Presumably Walmart will eventually catch on and start doing this...

Re:Uhm... edited HTML?

[jordanjay29]

Not for a while, they won't. Walmart doesn't have internet terminals at their registers, not even at customer service. With the amount of stores that Walmart owns, can you imagine how much it would take for them to upgrade their registers to add this capability? And for what, so customers could get a discount (i.e. Walmart loses money)? No, sir.

Re:Uhm... edited HTML?

[The New Guy 2.0]

Yep, WalMart has no way of tracking Amazon's prices without help from Amazon. Try recoding Amazon-subsidiary Woot's prices and see what happens.

Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've always found it a lot easier to just save the page, edit the price in HTML, and print it out. Although I would never do a 75% discount. Seems like that would draw a lot of suspicion in the store.
Fact is I usually just added the newegg price to a store that was on my local stores price match list.

Oh, boy!

[reboot246]

These are the same Walmart employees who think they're worth fifteen bucks an hour? A six year old could see through the scam!

Re:Oh, boy!

[timeOday]

Alternately, these might be Wal-Mart employees who've figured out how earn more than $15/hr by taking a cut of the fake savings, without appearing overtly guilty. At least, you for one are eager to assume they're too dumb to be guilty, which is probably true of their bosses also.

Re:Oh, boy!

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking of see-through... http://www.peopleofwalmart.com...

Re:Oh, boy!

[OzPeter]

These are the same Walmart employees who think they're worth fifteen bucks an hour?

This is getting off topic, but minimum wage in the US has taken a big hit due to inflation. At the very least if compared to the 1960's the current minimum wage needs to be about $11/hr in order to have the same buying power.

Re:Oh, boy!

[Anonymous Coward]

They may not be bright, bust their ass for a living and have to put up with assholes like you.

Yeah, that makes them worth $15/hr.

Unlike the assholes inheritors who are making a billion per year, each, and aren't actually competent enough to wipe their own asses.

Re:Oh, boy!

[FooAtWFU]

$10.69 in 2014 dollars, but it's worth noting that was at its peak and so a uniquely misleading selection if you're comparing the current minimum wage to historical norms.

Re:Oh, boy!

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as raising minimum wage brings my $14 an hour to $18 to match the increase. The job I had the last time the minimum wage went up (over 4 years I think it was) did not increase my wage other then the normal increase. my actual wage was going DOWN because minimum was going up and my wage did not match.

When wage goes up, prices go up also.

Re:Oh, boy!

[jratcliffe]

The underlying data (through 2012) is here. Minimum wage (in 2012 $) peaked in 1968 at $10.34, has averaged (from 1938-2012) $7.09/hour in 2012 $.

In inflation-adjusted terms, the minimum wage was lower than current levels until 1956, above current levels from 1956 to 1984, and then mostly below current levels again since 1984 (with the exception of 1997-1998).

Re:Oh, boy!

[jratcliffe]

Oops, forgot link: http://www.dol.gov/minwage/cha...

Re:Oh, boy!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow...where are these Walmarts that pay $15 an hour!? I live in the midwest (albeit low cost of living) but I doubt anyone other than managers/asst managers make that much.

Hooray for arbitrage!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is great news, glad some savvy consumers "abused the system." Price-matching guarantees, far from being made to help the consumer, are actually economic game theory made to preserve a store's sales. Example:

1. You are shopping for an item in a store, but discover that it is priced better elsewhere. If the store has no price match, you will leave and obtain the item elsewhere. The store loses sales because it is not as economically efficient as its competitors, and goes out of business. The free market marches on and we all feel good.

2. You shop in a store, and discover that the item is priced better elsewhere, but the store offers a "price match." You take it, thinking ha! I just got the item for the real "lowest price," and didn't even have to leave!

But what happens in #2? Oligopoly through game theory. Every retailer has a "price-match" policy, and they all know each others' prices. No retailer will drastically drop the price, because they know that they can divide and conquer by just keeping the prices the same. Why would you drop your price if you knew if those customers who knew better can get it at your competitor?

Meanwhile, while YOU may have gotten the lowest market price through the price match, less savvy consumers pay the higher "sticker" price. If #1 had been allowed to play out, the overpriced seller would have gone out of business, leaving only the superior merchant. EVERY consumer would then benefit from the lowest price, because the inefficient merchant would be gone, replaced by others.

Conclusion: These price-matching schemes are anti-competitive, and some customers took advantage of it. While they might not have known it, they are prime examples of using arbitrage to uncover bad policies and mispricing by the market. If I walked up to a cashier and said "can I buy that Playstation for $90?" they would say no. But if I say "your competitor is selling it for $90, give me a Playstation!" how is that any different? They can still say no, but they don't because their management is desparate to keep you in their store.

Re:Hooray for arbitrage!

[Anonymous Coward]

Your conclusion in point 2 doesn't necessarily hold true. I, for example, don't do price matching. If a merchant wants my business, they have to have the lower prices. That means the merchant with the higher price has to BEAT the merchant with the lower price, otherwise I'm going to reward the other merchant with my business for having the lower price to begin with. That provides incentive for continued price disparity. There is no "divide and conquer by just keeping the prices the same".

Re:Hooray for arbitrage!

[Anonymous Coward]

> I, for example, don't do price matching. If a merchant wants my business, they have to have the lower prices.

Hey look, this AC is a randian uberman. His knowledge of all prices is so comprehensive that he never makes a purchase for anything other than the lowest price available anywhere.

In the real world no one is as awesome as you are and thus the odds are stacked in favor of companies who use pricematching exactly as described.

Re:Hooray for arbitrage!

[SomeoneFromBelgium]

Enter the internet.
People will simply compare prices and buy on-line.
So if you get them in your store half the work of selling an item off-line is already done.

Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...)

[jtara]

Fry's has a simple system for this.

1. You tell the sales associate (it's not done at the checkout counter) what site you want them to match.

2. They check it against the list of sites that they are willing to match.

3. They go to the site on their computer, and look it up.

4. They print an invoice that you take to the counter with your purchase.

5. BTW, they have incentive to do this, because they get something any time they print an invoice. I don't know the details, but it would be dumb for Fry's to withhold whatever the reward is just because it was a price match. So, anytime somebody at Fry's is actually helpful (rare, I know, but sometimes happens...) don't balk when they want to print an invoice!

You don't get away with just showing them your screen.

You can show them a screen, from the web or some price-search app, and then they will go to their own browser to look it up.

Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...)

[dunkindave]

There was a story a few years ago about Best Buy rigging their in-store computers to show a higher price than their website to the public. It was a shadow system that looked like the external site, but gave different prices. Its purpose was to trick people who look something up online, see the price, go to the store, find it at a different price, and complain. The salesman would pull it up on their "website" like the customer says they did, show the customer that they were mistaken, the marked price is the price it shows, and the customer was faced with either walking out or accepting the higher price. Smartphones were the fall of this practice since customers no longer had to use the Best Buy systems to look things up. They could whip out their iPhone/Android/BlackBerry/(cringe)Windows and look it up for themselves. When some of these people questioned the sales person's answer and independently verified the info on the spot, which didn't match, all hell broke loose.

Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...)

[Anonymous Coward]

>> but it would be dumb for Fry's to withhold whatever the reward is just because it was a price match

It would indeed be dumb, but it does count against them (or rather, doesn't count FOR them as much as it would being a full price sale). They are penalized for price matching.

Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...)

[SvnLyrBrto]

In addition to said shenanigans, some of Best Buy's employees are just flat-out dense.

One time, I had a case where the in-store price was higher than the internet price on Best Buy's own website. I don't know if it was an error in their database, or if stores in more expensive areas (This was in San Francisco.) have the ability to set their prices higher. Regardless, they refused to price match their own internet price. The excuse they gave was that bestbuy.com was not on the list of sites they price match. I was told this by both a sales associate and his manager, when I asked to kick it up a level.

Thing is, bestbuy.com allows you to place an order online and pick it up in-store from their inventory. So I just placed my order on my iPhone, took off for lunch somewhere, about 45 minutes later got the email that my order was ready for pickup, and dropped by the same store on my way home and grabbed the thing at the lower price from the customer service counter.

Stupid and obtuse behavior across the board on their part.

Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...)

[TimTucker]

If you knew what you were doing, it was actually a pretty good system -- you could order out of stock items that were clearance in-store at the in-store price and have them delivered. Probably not what they intended, but the results weren't always anti-consumer.

Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...)

[Anonymous Coward]

I've lost count of the number of times I've gone to a theme park, crapped myself at the ticket prices, whipped out my phone, booked tickets online for 30% discount, and then gone straight back to the desk with the phone. With tickets it doesn't even waste 45 minutes, just however long the booking process takes.

*Some* parks are wise to this and don't let you book same-day tickets. About 10% of them, maybe.

Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...)

[Jason Levine]

I've had Walmart do this to us too. The price on Walmart.com was cheaper and there was "ship to store", but they wouldn't match the price on the exact same item in the store. The sales associate said that the online store and physical stores are two separate entities. She also mentioned that she's had to deal with this herself. She would go to her car during her lunch break, order something from Walmart.com to pick up in the store, and then grab the item when she left her shift.

Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...)

[Anonymous Coward]

I worked at Best Buy and Target, neither would accept the online prices from their respective online stores.

Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...)

[phorm]

So you still gave them your business... is what you're saying?

Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...)

[luther349]

now they do but when this happened showing the site was good enough.

Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...)

[Anonymous Coward]

Stupid and obtuse behavior across the board on their part.

Not really. They still got your money and most people wouldn't bother. Worked out just fine for Best Buy. Perhaps next time you'll do the right thing and buy the item elsewhere.

I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Prien715]

After all, when your employer pays you terribly, why do you care? Reject the idea, customer complains to your manager. Who is also, may not be the brightest star in the constellation, who may discipline/fire you.

Also? Average wage at WalMart: $8/hr (weekly: 8*8=64 * 5 days=$320). Which means, pulling this once and reselling the console is almost a week's pay. Taking $300 from WalMart, whose family owns more money than the bottom 42% of the US combined to feed your family doesn't seem like the most heartless crime in the world.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[TrollstonButterbeans]

People with your attitude is why some companies like to hire Mexicans for labor jobs and Indians for technical jobs.

Because as a rule of thumb, they appreciate their job.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Fwipp]

It's taking it from WalMart, not the Walmart employees.

Walmart is worth almost $500 billion - I'm sure their bottom line can afford to take a hit.

( I imagine some of these scammers are being total dicks to the poor employees, which is awful of them. But scamming the company? I don't really see a huge problem with that. )

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Fwipp]

FUCK. I totally misread your last comment. Totes agreed with you.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Camembert]

It's taking it from WalMart, not the Walmart employees.

Walmart is worth almost $500 billion - I'm sure their bottom line can afford to take a hit.

( I imagine some of these scammers are being total dicks to the poor employees, which is awful of them. But scamming the company? I don't really see a huge problem with that. )

I detest that twisted logic that because a company is rich, it is acceptable to steal from them.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

Taking $300 from ... to feed your family doesn't seem like the most heartless crime in the world.

Somehow, I doubt those stolen Playstations went to "feed their family", but nice try.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

So you have documented evidence that Walmart is practicing some form of slavery in that they are forcing peopel to work against their will for a wage they did not accept? Now that is news, please document this and show us all .. otherwise get off your ass and out of your ivory tower you complete and total waste of your father's orgasm.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

Most appreciate a job that does ITS JOB, which most of the people you are talking about are still ignorant about how it is around here and keep thinking about it like the pay here would spend almost like it would back where they came or are just happy not to live in the squaller they came from.

No one is happy to be taken advantage of.

That is about like appreciating the fact they punched you in the face and kicked you in the balls because they could have done it with Steel Toed Boots and Brace Knuckles but where kind enough not to.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't because they are rich, if that was the case, people would be cheering if a Costco was taken advantage of.

It is because Walmart is a thief in and of themselves on a quite literally global scale with many of the things they have done since Sam Walton died and the worthless children took over.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting, but walmart pays above minimum wage and fights to increase the minimum wage. Go ahead, prove me wrong. You may just learn something!

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[ArsonSmith]

It is not nice to take money from my 401k.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

Who gives a shit what they do with the money. As long as the Waltons are leeching my tax money to subsidize their low wages, I'll personally champion and applaud every single thief who walk out with whatever isn't bolted down.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[jordanjay29]

Sadly, this won't work out in the end. Any store that finds itself with a shortfall in profit will inevitably wind up cutting worker hours to make it up.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

here's a wake-up call for you, sunshine ... you ain't NEVER getting that 401k

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[TrollstonButterbeans]

If you are looking for a hefty paycheck, and your plan is to be a cashier or a shelf-stocker at Walmart you are a fool.

If you want to make $50,000 a year as a cashier or shelf-stocker, good luck with that!

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone mod this guy up. In the whole discussion about whether it is ok to steal from a big company this is the bottom line. If you short change or scam a company into losing profits they will only take it out even more on the employees.

The whole point is, no matter how noble you think you are, you are only hurting the poorly paid employees even more.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

here's a wake-up call for you, sunshine ... you ain't NEVER getting that 401k

You know what, sunshine? I was told that more than 20 years ago and guess what? Not only did I get it, I got to retire early thanks to research and wise market investments - yup, even with the market hit in '08. I've found that folks that make statements like yours don't have a 401K, a 403B or any real knowledge of how the market works, how wealth is generated in this country or even a fucking 0.01% return on savings account. I wonder just how you will make it when you find out that it's time to retire but you were too clever to get conned by the man on that whole investment scam thing. And I'm not a 1%er, or even close; I'm just an average tech guy who made a reasonable living. I just learned how to manage money and how to take educated risks in the market, pay off my house and retire early. In today's world, you either play or get played. I didn't make the rules, I know I have no power to change them, so I damn well better have learned the shit out of them to avoid a fucking. Hopefully, you'll see this as *your* wake-up call.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[EdwardFurlong]

Most small businesses are just as bad to me, you just are not aware of what they do. Over billing customers, cheating on taxes, hiring their kids to do nothing for a bunch of money, ignoring safety regulations, then expecting you to be oh so grateful they give you the privilege of working for them. It still doesn't mean I think you should scam the "mom and pop" shop, but they are all the same to me.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[neminem]

Huh? I mean, I fully expect to get 0 social security money when I retire; it's just not even part of my planning. If I get any, I'll consider it free bonus money, the same as if I won the lottery or something. But my 401k is money I personally put in, that is in my name and nobody else's, so why would you not expect I would get it when I retire? That makes no sense. Or are you thinking the stock market is going to completely collapse and all our money is going to be totally worthless? If that happened, I think we'd have bigger things to worry about than our 401ks...

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[phorm]

Yes, because it's only SWM's that have a bad attitude or screw the employer/customers, right?
Nothing could ever go wrong by outsourcing to a country where labour laws and accountability are even worse...

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[popoutman]

The company can easily say "no, thanks" to the offer of the reduced price. After all the sticker prices are not final, they are only an offer to treat. There's nothing to stop someone negotiating a price that suits. If both parties agree to it, it's not illegal. Ergo, it's not stealing. If using fake prices as a negotiation tool, it is underhanded yes, but illegal, no.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't hate them because they are rich, hate them because they are evil.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[luther349]

yes this is how this scam was working some of the csa who knew the prices of the consoles would red flage it and say no then there manger would ok it.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[vm146j2]

40 hr workweeks at Walmart? And then you woke up. . .that would require benefits beyond links to the SNAP card application website.

Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

Former stockman here. Made $42k a year.

Knew a guy that started as a cart-pusher, worked his way up, and makes $98k a year, with a six figure bonus.

idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

People have been doing this for months at least, and now some braggarts couldn't just shut up and enjoy it. They had to advertise the scheme and ruin it for everyone else.

Re:idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

Walmart only started price matching a week ago...

Right on!

[plopez]

You won't see me crying over a thief that got robbed. Wal-Mart has systematically shorted employee pay, forced their employees and their families onto welfare, and demanded tax cuts meaning that other taxpayers foot the bill. They are also supporting a corrupt and oppressive government in China and n doing so helped destroy many middle class lives by having jobs moved there.

So boohoo, they got what they deserved. Hats off to those who 'stick it to the man'.

Re:Right on!

[CauseBy]

Completely agreed. I can think of a couple nice things to say about WalMart, but I can think of thousands of horrible things to say about WalMart, and I can think of even more to say about the Walton family. Fuck the lot of them.

Re:Right on!

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally ran a nightshift crew, where the lowest paid employee made $17.74/hr. Your pay is directly proportionate to the amount of work you put in.

Re:Right on!

[Anonymous Coward]

Whether what happened was fraud or not, is beside the point. It's going to get fixed. But the real problem is poverty, something that can't necessarily be fixed by forcing companies to pay higher wages. Well, not all companies. Maybe a separate minimum wage for large companies, like Wal-Mart and the like, but here is an idea I'm been mentioning on slashdot.

A negative income tax.
(Poverty Level - Federal AGI) / 2 = Credit
22+ years old and legal resident
18-21, living away from relatives, and legal resident
17 and under, living away from relatives, emancipated, and legal resident
Assuming even 20% are in poverty out of about 300 million, that would be 60 million individuals.
Even with the poverty levels listed on http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/14poverty.cfm , we can assume it'd be at most $5835/individual.
But since not every one is a family size of one, it won't exceed that. A family size of 6 who has no income would only get $15,985.
Four homeless people could all live together and pool their individual $5835 (totaling $23,340 for the year) to get a crowded living space.
Overall, I don't think this would even cost $300 billion.

Re:Right on!

[Anonymous Coward]

So boohoo, they got what they deserved. Hats off to those who 'stick it to the man'.

Perhaps instead of endorsing more bad behavior you could simply, you know, not shop at Wal-Mart... Three lefts makes a right. Wait, I meant two wrongs doesn't make a right.

Re:Right on!

[plopez]

I've been boycotting them for years. And encouraging other to do the same. But their marketing engine is better funded than mine.

Re:Right on!

[plopez]

Is there an employment ad somewhere you can point to back up your claim?

makes me sad

[ionymous]

to see how much this site has changed. So many commenters sound entitled or fraudsters or thieves.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it or promote it.

Re:makes me sad

[Anonymous Coward]

Legalize it, yeah, yeah. And I will advertise it. Jah
btw you sound like a puzzy

Re: makes me sad

[Anonymous Coward]

It is the same as theft to me. I see similar things all the time. Buy a computer, remove the cpu, return computer. No store is going to take the computer apart at the return counter. Buy accident insurance on your phone. Throw it in the toilet when your plan is almost up. So on and so on, just because it is a big company and you can does not mean you should. Find a more constructive way to make a buck.

Re:makes me sad

[Anonymous Coward]

>So many commenters sound entitled or fraudsters or thieves.

That's what the definition of "Libertarian" is: anything I can get you to agree to is legit and the gubbimint doesn't get any say.

Re:makes me sad

[EdwardFurlong]

In this instance what do you want the government to do? Walmart has to take some responsibility.

Re: makes me sad

[luther349]

best buy would check the computer but yea Walmart would not.

Re:Amazon doens't charge the same price to everybo

[Anonymous Coward]

some stores have already started moving to digital price signs. the initial cost is high, but updating prices is performed wirelessly and instantly.
i don't know if they raise/lower prices throughout the day based on sales/customer demographics...

(y)

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is a way to nail Bezos and Amazon. This will turn Bezos and Amazon into the "Kim Dotcom" of online retail and send Bezos to prison and Amazon into bankruptcy, divesture and closure.

Oh Happy Days are here Again, The Sky Above is clear Again, Let us sing a Song of cheer Again, Oh happy Dayz are Here Again. :-D

I don't blame WalMart Employees

[Anonymous Coward]

That is why underpaying your retail workers is shortsighted. Unless you are selling lumber or something similarly bulky and heavy shrinkage will happen. If you underpay them they won't give a crap about it and may contribuite some of their own. Employees beat customers in shoplifting. Costco has the higher paid worker and stock sharing and very low shrinkage rates.

walmart's fault...

[jordanjay29]

It's still easy enough to change the page by Photoshop or editing the HTML code directly, then take a "screenshot" of your newly-modified page.

The real solution will only come when Walmart and other retailers start looking up the prices themselves to verify them, just like they would with print ads (no sane retailer would accept someone's xeroxed version of a store's weekly ad in order to price match, so why would they accept screenshots and printouts of internet websites?).

Uhm... edited HTML?

[jordanjay29]

I can easily create a local HTML page derived from Amazon's website. It'll be hosted in my browser, on my phone, but it'll be 100% fake.

Name Your Own Price?

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't think that was Amazon's tagline. ;)

This is why we can't have nice things...

[Karmashock]

People have to ruin it. Company tries to do a nice thing and match online prices... and jackasses start creating bullcrap listings.

Neither Amazon nor Ebay really should be listed. Keep it to sites like NewEgg, etc.

Re:This is why we can't have nice things...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice? HAH! You think they were offering price-matching due to altruism?

It's all psy-ops to get people to shop at their store. It's manipulation.

I See this as Walmart's fault...

[GrpA]

Walmart was not obliged to sell other than by it's own actions... They could have challenged it or otherwise...

It's actions were made on the intent of beating it's competitors and this backfired... Only consumers really need to be protected from their own stupidity and ignorance - Corporations are big enough to make their own miscalculations and live with the consequences.

caveat venditor would be more appropriate -

GrpA

Better rat trap =

[Anonymous Coward]

better rats.

Re:Amazon doens't charge the same price to everybo

[LordKronos]

Wrong. Amazon DOES charge the same price for everybody. They did experiment with different prices for different customers a few years back, but they got some bad media attention over it and discontinued it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

Actually, this is just bad training.

[PortHaven]

Best Buy price matches Amazon.com, just like Walmart.

But the policy is to price match items sold from and BY Amazon.com. So stores hosted by Amazon are NOT supposed to be price-matched.

problem is there's no laws against false advertisi

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like when AT$T sends me promotionals with pricing they have absolutely no intention of actually making good on.

$30 a month my ass.

Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this any different from walmarts gas pumps advertising one price, but charging another?

Bait and switch has become commonplace enough that its seen as legal now. If its OK for them its OK for us too.

Re:Amazon doens't charge the same price to everybo

[JStyle]

They do, however, change their prices rather rapidly. I usually leave things in my wishlist and see the price change regularly. So this can cause confusion if a retailer wants to verify the price.

Slightly related, I had a keyboard on my wishlist, set at $50, it recently went up to $70-75, and is now on their black friday sales listed as $60 (What a deal!). All within 3-4 weeks.

Not Fraud

[CimmerianX]

... and I'll tell you why. Because if I get my LLC to get 1,000 people to each Pony up some money for a PS4, then I use these types of tactics to purchase PS4 from other retailers at a huge discount after having pooled the money from my 1,000 customers (divinding it up so no 1 customer funded 1 whole ps4) , then I provide each customer with a PS4, and then I run to the bank yelling yippee at all the money I just earned...well if anyone calls fraud, I might just get a bailout from the government to keep my LLC in place since I serve such a good purpose in providing access to cheap PS4s. Then the LLC can get a fine of 10% of 1 year's profits as I laugh from my sailboat.

Actually saw a PS4 on Amazon yesterday for $100

[Anonymous Coward]

Was wondering what kind of scam it was especially since the company had no rep.

anyone

[thinsoldier]

any Amazon member with a registered selling account can create authentic looking pages and list items 'for sale' online.
Consumers need only take a screen capture of the page and show it to a cashier at checkout in order to request the price match."

If a print out is all that's needed then anyone with knowledge of ctrl + shift + i or photoshop or paint or using a photo copier can do this easily.

Re:Amazon doens't charge the same price to everybo

[Anonymous Coward]

I usually leave things in my wishlist and see the price change regularly.

You might want to check out CamelCamelCamel. They'll track prices for you and let you set up alerts.

Fraud - plain and simple

[Anonymous Coward]

From: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fraud

fraud noun \frd\
: the crime of using dishonest methods to take something valuable from another person

: a person who pretends to be what he or she is not in order to trick people

: a copy of something that is meant to look like the real thing in order to trick people

See the third definition.

Petition

[NewYork]

http://wh.gov/iCfVS

Walmart is evil

[soundguy4film]

Anyone defending WalMart is a douche. They are the biggest crooks in the country. They deserve to get ripped off they are stealing from America by paying their employees so little that they still need public benefits. Good for people outsmarting Wal Mart it's time they actually lose some money.