Customers Creating Fake Amazon Pages To Get Cheap Electronics At Walmart

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Customers Creating Fake Amazon Pages To Get Cheap Electronics At Walmart

Posted by samzenpus on Thursday November 20, 2014 @12:20PM from the match-this-price dept.

turkeydance writes People are reportedly creating fake Amazon pages to show fake prices on electronics and other items. In the most heavily publicized cases, Walmart was reportedly duped into selling $400 PlayStation 4 consoles for under $100. From the article: "The company announced on Nov. 13 that it would price-match select online retailers, including Amazon.com. However, any Amazon member with a registered selling account can create authentic looking pages and list items 'for sale' online. Consumers need only take a screen capture of the page and show it to a cashier at checkout in order to request the price match."

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wont last by vux984 · 2014-11-20 12:25 · Score: 2

Clever crooks. Always finding the loopholes. This is why we can't have nice things.
Presumably walmart will immediately be limiting this to items only sold and shipped directly by amazon... or they'll drop amazon matching entirely if that's too complicated for their staff.
1. Re:wont last by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 12:30 · Score: 1
  
  I don't understand why they didn't train their employees to match items sold only by Amazon in the first place.
2. Re:wont last by serbanp · 2014-11-20 12:34 · Score: 1
  
  unless they would check the actual link, the price matching based on a lousy printout is unworkable. It's rather easy to photoshop the displayed price to an arbitrarily low value.
3. Re:wont last by camg188 · 2014-11-20 12:37 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I used to work a second job at Walmart, in the electronics department. At least once a month I would get somebody trying to buy a game system with a bogus coupon. Most of them were $100 off of a Nintendo DS.
4. Re:wont last by mysidia · 2014-11-20 12:37 · Score: 1
  
  Is this really a loophole? What happens if I go to amazon.com and find one of these $100 playstations, and quickly buy it, then insist they honor the contract?
  Should they fail.... bring it to court, suing them for the difference between the price agreed and the best available offer. Subpoena walmart for records of the price match as proof that the $100 listing for sale was known and intended.
5. Re:wont last by Aighearach · 2014-11-20 12:40 · Score: 1
  
  They may or may not be crooks, but that question likely comes down to pedantic details about what buttons they pushed and if their amazon listing was a legit "limited time offer" or "sale." The bar to prove fraud might be pretty high here, unless they bragged about it loosely on twitter. Which I guess most of them probably did...
6. Re:wont last by alen · 2014-11-20 12:42 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  good luck. i'm doing jury duty on a civil case in NYC now and the system will break you before you see any money
7. Re:wont last by Obfuscant · 2014-11-20 12:46 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  This. It doesn't take an Amazon account of any kind to create a dummy web page saying whatever you want, including "sold and fulfilled by Amazon.com" or any other magic. Simply "save as" the HTML and then modify to your heart's desire. If all it takes is a printout of the web page, then Walmart are fools and deserve to be taken to the cleaners.
8. Re:wont last by vux984 · 2014-11-20 13:07 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I don't get why you think they are crooks?
  Probably because its textbook case of fraud.
  A fake price is still a price.
  But its being misrepresented as real price, in a real offer to sell real playstations to the real public.
  Walmarts price matching policies apply to genuine offers made on the same product by another party to the public. It doesn't apply to fake listings that were never evem intended to be seen, nevermind honored, by the public.
  Walmart, should probably demand to see the listing showing a PS4. If the customer can't find it, it its not an offer to the public. If the crook leaves it up so walmart CAN find, it (and just plans to blow off anyone who tries to order one in the meantime) then Walmart should order up 50,000 units. That's "get the full attention of the FBI" money when you don't honor the shipment.
  And there's no hiding behind "limited quantity available", or limited time and its already expired offers... because price matching policies tend to exclude that sort of thing too.
  Because the objective of price matching policies is to convert a competitors sale to your sale. If the competitor can't fulfill the order then you haven't lost a customer to them and don't need to price match.
9. Re:wont last by Charliemopps · 2014-11-20 13:19 · Score: 1
  
  Clever crooks. Always finding the loopholes. This is why we can't have nice things.
  Presumably walmart will immediately be limiting this to items only sold and shipped directly by amazon... or they'll drop amazon matching entirely if that's too complicated for their staff.
  Walmart promises to price match any competitor, then uses their clout to get the manufacture to package the item differently, specifically for walmart, under a different SKU so the item, is in effect, unique to walmart, and they'll have no one to compete with them.
  Fair game I'd say.
10. Re:wont last by byornski · 2014-11-20 13:22 · Score: 1
  
  I think the real problem here is that Walmart are trying to overprice people and then console them with the offer that if they can bring in a cheaper price they will honor it. The real solution would be Walmart not overpricing, but clearly they are not prepared to do that so they offer these deals.
  These deals trick consumers into thinking that they will obviously get the best deal there as why else would the shop offer this deal. The cashier does not necessarily know how much these items are worth and it is clearly not their fault. It is a large company trying to extort as much money as possible from the people who do not bother. If they are not willing to put in price checks with other shops and keep wanting to overcharge normal customers, then this is the way they must do business.
11. Re:wont last by msauve · 2014-11-20 13:28 · Score: 1
  
  If you think you'll come out ahead by suing for $100, you're sadly mistaken.
  
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12. Re:wont last by msauve · 2014-11-20 13:34 · Score: 1
  
  How about a legitimate offer - Playstation for $1, with $499 shipping?
  
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  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
13. Re:wont last by ArcadeMan · 2014-11-20 13:39 · Score: 1
  
  And it's even easier to just download the page, edit the HTML and save it again with your new low, low prices.
  
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14. Re:wont last by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 13:42 · Score: 1
  
  You think they're paying their employees enough to actually give a fuck?
15. Re:wont last by rmdingler · 2014-11-20 13:45 · Score: 1
  
  Train Walmart employees. Sure.
  Make them care enough to do the lengthy, tiresome coupon verification process instead of getting to the next anxious customer in line? Best of luck.
  
  --
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  Ernest Hemingway
16. Re: wont last by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 13:53 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  yes it's okay to take advantage of people. that's how capitalism works.
17. Re: wont last by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 14:00 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Actually, it's called fraud...
18. Re:wont last by Bengie · 2014-11-20 14:27 · Score: 1
  
  Are you saying the Walmart staff should have Internet access at their registers?
19. Re:wont last by Oligonicella · 2014-11-20 14:32 · Score: 1
  
  Then you think wrongly. One can always not purchase at Walmart. You, however, are attempting to rationalize illegal activity.
20. Re:wont last by ProzacPatient · 2014-11-20 14:33 · Score: 1
  
  As you can imagine this is potentially illegal in many jurisdictions so these crooks were probably breaking the law to begin with.
  I also remember when someone figured out how coupon UPC's worked and got XBox controllers for unrealistic prices. Ultimately I imagine one of the reasons people get away with this type of thing with such ease is because retailer workers paid minimum wage with little or no benefits probably don't care at all.
21. Re:wont last by byornski · 2014-11-20 14:40 · Score: 1
  
  Well UK perspective ;)
22. Re:wont last by byornski · 2014-11-20 14:58 · Score: 1
  
  Actually I do believe that Walmart are trying to overcharge people for the products they get and I don't think most people would disagree. The main point of my post was that their offer of matching prices encourages people to shop there as it implies that their prices are competitive.
23. Re:wont last by dunkindave · 2014-11-20 14:59 · Score: 1
  
  That used to be a trick that stores used for mattresses, maybe they still do. The major companies like Serta, Sealy, and Simmons, would make a different model name for various major stores. Each store offered to beat any other store selling the same , IDENTICAL, item. Since they each sold their own "unique" mattress model they never had to actually match anyone. The fact that Sears' Foo and Wards' Bar were the same mattress, just with a different label and SKU, was of no help to the consumer.
  I have seen things like that at Walmart too, like special version of a DVD that contains an extra trailer, or a drill that doesn't come with the carrying case like it does from Home Depot, all differences that cause it to have a different SKU.
24. Re:wont last by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 15:03 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Because the objective of price matching policies is to convert a competitors sale to your sale
  No, it's not. The purpose of Wal-Mart's price matching policy is to drive competition out of business. It's like running a loss-leader sale, where you sell below cost until the competition goes out of business and then hike prices to make up for it later. Mega-Corps like Wal-Mart have deep enough pockets to do this, but it can get them in trouble with regulations covering Monopolistic and Anti-Competitive practices. The "price matching" program is a loophole which allows them to do almost the same thing.
  Personally I would suspect that Wal-Mart probably didn't really care, or may have even anticipated such things and intentionally allowed it to happen. It's free advertising, and now the Word is Out that you can get stuff on the cheap from Wal-Mart by "tricking" them. Just in time for the holiday season? The timing is rather suspicious. Sure, they might sell at a loss, but they can easily afford to do it and watch the competition post slow and dismal Holiday sales. Many retailers live or die by the results of this shopping season.
  Or put in a more simple fashion- don't be so quick to call these people "crooks", when at the very worst they're taking advantage of a much larger, more pervasive Crook.
25. Re:wont last by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 15:04 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  > Is this really a loophole? What happens if I go to amazon.com and find one of these $100 playstations, and quickly buy it, then insist they honor the contract?
  Insist all you want, there is no contract until there is an exchange of value aka your card is charged. And your card isn't charged until the item ships.
  This is all well established law. Not a week goes by where someone on fatwallet or slickdeals hasn't had an order cancelled because of a misprice on the merchant's part. If they actually charge the card and ship the product, then there is nothing the merchant can legally do about. But until that point, the ball is in their court 100%.
26. Re:wont last by SillyHamster · 2014-11-20 15:16 · Score: 1
  
  No, it's not. The purpose of Wal-Mart's price matching policy is to drive competition out of business.
  
  While they may wish to be the only store around, it'll take far more than price-matching to drive the competition out of business.
  Saying that it's the policy's one true purpose is silly.
27. Re:wont last by ottothecow · 2014-11-20 15:44 · Score: 2
  
  Serious question. What does walmart think about shipping costs?
  They are now closing the loophole to block matching to 3rd party sellers (which is probably fair), but what if the $80 PS4 were legitimate? An $80 PS4 with $350 shipping. The original $80 price was either taken down quickly, or someone tried to buy it (and then had it declared out of stock by the 3rd party seller), but if you sold it for $80 plus a shipping cost to make up the legitimate cost of the unit like many ebay sellers used to do, would walmart honor it or would they try to calculate shipping?
  
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28. Re:wont last by MBGMorden · 2014-11-20 16:28 · Score: 1
  
  Wal-mart isn't overpricing anything. They may have made a fortune, but their margins are pretty darned thin - they make it up on volume. Many sales deals are actually loss-leaders. IE, they get you in the store and hope that you buy enough other stuff to make up their loss.
  By price matching, Wal-mart is hoping to get you in THEIR store rather than the competitors. And if you happen to just need to pickup bread, milk, some sheets, and fill your prescriptions while you're there, then they're ok with losing a bit of money on that one price match.
  
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29. Re:wont last by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 16:31 · Score: 1
  
  Walmart, should probably demand to see the listing showing a PS4.
  Why, would you use a comma like that?
30. Re:wont last by Mashiki · 2014-11-20 16:33 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  They took a $10 off coupon and added a zero?
  (My understanding is that coupons have barcodes to actually check the validity of the offer in a database or something.)
  Nope, manufactured their own coupon. It's not hard to do, it used to be a frequent thing on the various underbellies of the internet. And I'm not talking about chans, a bit deeper. The barcode scan is looking to see if it's valid, again--easy to make it work as well. One of the big ones back in '08/09 was for baby formula, people use it to cut other drugs--and would use mules to buy the stuff from walmart, costco, walgreens, etc usually at $200-800 at a time.
  
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31. Re:wont last by davester666 · 2014-11-20 17:35 · Score: 1
  
  Don't they need it for CurrentC to work? Or will they depend on their customers to have internet access for it to work?
  
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32. Re: wont last by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 17:39 · Score: 1
  
  Parent AC was being sarcastic, but regardless the concept of fraud is inherent to capitalism. Either you are okay with fraud occurring (and being called out by those duped) or you are willing to see capitalism restrained by regulation.
  Capeat Emptor, eh?
33. Re:wont last by ArsonSmith · 2014-11-20 17:47 · Score: 1
  
  What's worse, often times Walmart will have them package an inferior product with the same SKU. I remember some Sony monitors that were the exact same Trinitron model but the Walmart ones had a lower max resolution the the ones sold at Circuit City.
  
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34. Re:wont last by vux984 · 2014-11-20 20:19 · Score: 1
  
  maybe they still do.
  Yes. They still do.
  just with a different label and SKU, was of no help to the consumer.
  Except that you could just buy foo at sears or bar at Wards. I mean its a price matching policy...so if the Foo at Sears is cheaper than the bar at wards, and you think its the same thing and Wards is like 'uh uh different sku' then just drive to Sears. Big deal.
  Worst case its a meaningless price matching offer. They are still competing with eachother. Its just slightly harder for the consumer to compare pricing since they have to look at features and specs instead of just SKUs.
  FWIW i don't really blame companies for doing this. You call it a "trick" they view it as product differentiation... the carrying case at home depot vs without at walmart... its not really at all about dodging the price matching policy. Its about being able to offer the consumer something different... because if everyone has exactly the same box with the same sku on a shelf, then its just a cutthroat race to the lowest price because there is nothing else to compete on.
35. Re:wont last by stephanruby · 2014-11-20 20:34 · Score: 1
  
  It doesn't apply to fake listings that were never even intended to be seen, nevermind honored, by the public.
  Amazon allows you to sell a book for one penny and then make your profit on the shipping charge. For all you know, the buyers were doing the same with PS4s and reselling them at cost + shipping. It's probably a great way to get raving 5 stars reviews from your customers. Also since the customers are locked into the shipping charge with the PS4 itself, you could probably upsell them on extra PS4 cables and extra PS4 accessories at a real monster's premium.
36. Re:wont last by TheRaven64 · 2014-11-20 22:21 · Score: 1
  
  The main reason for doing it with mattresses is that it lets brick and mortar stores compete with online and makes price comparisons hard. I looked at some mattresses in a shop, where I could try lying on them, and then tried to check the price online and see if the local store was competitive (I'd accept some premium for being able to try it, but not an extra 100% markup). Not only could I not find the same model online, I couldn't find it in other brick and mortar stores either. I've no idea whether the two that were priced differently were the same, or just nearly the same.
  
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37. Re:wont last by xelah · 2014-11-20 22:46 · Score: 1
  
  Because the objective of price matching policies is to convert a competitors sale to your sale. If the competitor can't fulfill the order then you haven't lost a customer to them and don't need to price match.
  Only partly. Traditionally, price matching was an anti-competitive measure to support prices. It says to your competitors 'don't both trying to compete on price because we'll just match you and we'll both lose'.
38. Re:wont last by gnupun · 2014-11-20 23:31 · Score: 1
  
  Many sales deals are actually loss-leaders. IE, they get you in the store and hope that you buy enough other stuff to make up their loss.
  This should be made illegal (like creating fake amazon sales pages), because if Wal-mart is selling item X for cost or at a loss, other retailers will be unable to make a profit by selling item X. Wal-mart, and other retailers, should be made to sell item X for at least y% (say 5-10%) profit margin.
  That is, the govt should regulate a minimum profit margin for a product and the minimum margin should vary for different products.
39. Re: wont last by tmosley · 2014-11-21 00:41 · Score: 1
  
  It really doesn't, and you don't understand Laissez faire. Next you'll tell us that rape and murder are legal under that system.
40. Re: wont last by tmosley · 2014-11-21 00:44 · Score: 3
  
  Except that is completely wrong. Fraud and theft are illegal in free market capitalism. Rape and murder are illegal too.
  
  Why does everyone think they understand and are qualified to speak about and criticize economic systems when they have only the barest idea of what the words even mean, much less the history and principles behind them?
41. Re:wont last by tmosley · 2014-11-21 00:54 · Score: 1
  
  Suggest you take your ass to North Korea then.
42. Re:wont last by squiggleslash · 2014-11-21 00:56 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Even easier, Inspect Element (built in to virtually every web browser these days) and change the live HTML.
  If people knew how easy it was to forge screenshots these days they'd stop believing everything that purports to be one.
  
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43. Re: wont last by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-21 01:17 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  It really doesn't, and you don't understand Laissez faire.
  No, I understand how it works in reality just fine. You can give me all the bullshit definitions you want, but when put in practice it very much does mean that.
  
  Next you'll tell us that rape and murder are legal under that system.
  Since it's an economic policy not a social one, no I wouldn't.
44. Re:wont last by Jason+Levine · 2014-11-21 02:04 · Score: 1
  
  If loss leaders are made illegal, then most supermarkets in America would need to be charged also. All of them price certain items cheaper than their cost to lure you into the store. Some sales are this way too. They get you into the store promising X at a really good price. And while you're there, they hope you'll impulse-buy Y, Z, and a few other things. This is a standard business practice that everyone engages in, not some shady trick designed to eliminate competition.
  (Which isn't to say that Walmart doesn't engage in shady tricks. They definitely do. Loss leaders just don't count as one of them.)
  
  --
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45. Re:wont last by Jason+Levine · 2014-11-21 02:09 · Score: 1
  
  Walmart price matching is even worse than this. Despite our general dislike of Walmart, there was a toy my son wanted that we were going to buy him. Walmart had the best price on their website so we went into the store and found the toy. Unfortunately, it was more than the price on their website for some reason. We went to the customer service desk and were told they don't price match Walmart.com because the physical store and online store are two separate entities. We could order it from the website, choose "pick up in store", and get that same exact toy from that same exact store an hour later, but they couldn't mark the toy down to the Walmart.com price and sell it to us.
  Their price matching policy is completely twisted.
  
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46. Re:wont last by aurizon · 2014-11-21 02:55 · Score: 1
  
  Ah yes, smart trained cashiers = too costly for Walmart
  minimum wage dummies have additional costs. In addition the cashier might be in on it. Just get a friend with a few thousand bucks to buy a 20, one after another as discrete sales.
  Sell on Ebay for $300 - repeat as needed.
  I expect the plug was soon pulled on this scam because it has such a high degree of viral amplification inherent in it.
47. Re: wont last by mark-t · 2014-11-21 02:57 · Score: 1
  
  How was the latin phrase used incorrectly? It seemed entirely relevant, if you ask me.
  
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  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
48. Re:wont last by AmiMoJo · 2014-11-21 03:04 · Score: 1
  
  Amazon and eBay both limit shipping costs on things like games consoles, so you can't have them that high. It's a particular problem on eBay because they seem to have set the price at the absolute minimum it is possible to post things for with no tracking on the slow boat.
  
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49. Re:wont last by jratcliffe · 2014-11-21 03:11 · Score: 1
  
  Quite a number of states (Cali and Wisconsin come to mind) have laws prohibiting loss leaders, usually only if they're viewed as predatory pricing (i.e. trying to drive competitors out of business).
  Wisconsin has a law that sets a minimum margin for gasoline. Idea is to prevent large operators with other revenue streams (i.e. a supermarket with a couple of gas pumps) from selling below cost to bring in shoppers, thereby driving out small operators
50. Re:wont last by jratcliffe · 2014-11-21 03:14 · Score: 1
  
  Walmart's cost of goods sold (i.e. the % of revenue that gets spent on the products they sell, doesn't include cost of labor, rent, light, etc.) is 75%, slightly above Amazon's 73%. So, WalMart is, on average, charging a SMALLER markup than Amazon.
51. Re: wont last by cyberchondriac · 2014-11-21 03:30 · Score: 1
  
  Funny, that's how communism works too.
  
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52. Re:wont last by cyberchondriac · 2014-11-21 03:34 · Score: 2
  
  If you think you'll come out ahead by suing for $100, you're sadly mistaken.
  Well actually, they'd be suing to get the game console for $100, so the assumed net gain would be the difference between the bogus advertised price and the real price: closer to $300 or so; but yeah, that's still not even close to worth it.
  
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53. Re: wont last by sumdumass · 2014-11-21 03:38 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think you understand what you are taljing about. Fraud is not inherent to capitalism. Capitalism requires informed parties to be involved which negates fraud. Fraud can only happen when one or more parties either are not informed, purposely misinformed, or there is an out an outright refusal/ability to deliver the product. The later is taking advantage of it and regullation of it isnot regulation of capitalism unless it manipulates the transaction in some way to prevent fraud. This is BTW no different than any other system
  Pure capitalism exists in real transactions but not as a pure system in the real world.
54. Re:wont last by cyberchondriac · 2014-11-21 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  Troll is obvious troll. Why are people feeding it?
  
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55. Re:wont last by cyberchondriac · 2014-11-21 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks for trying to destroy the country, because with your logic, businesses would fail all over. ("amoral-by-definition"???)
  I get so sick of this "Walmart is big corporate evil" mantra. The very fact that Walmart has been taken in by this scam several times only illustrates that they make a good faith effort to honor their deals.
  I'm not thrilled with the whole stockholders model anymore either, (customers and employees should be more important) but Walmart is no worse than anyone else.. why isn't Target a target, for example? or Macy's? or Lord and Taylors? They they treat their people any better, or have fairer prices? The only reason Walmart is attacked so much is because the family are known conservatives.
  
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56. Re: wont last by sumdumass · 2014-11-21 03:46 · Score: 1
  
  Its because they have to take econ 101 as part of their degree but see it as one of those courses they just need to get out of the way so they do not do much more than what is neccesary to pass it
  You see the same things when people take psych 101 also. It gives just enough info to understand what is being presented but is dangerous to assume you know it all
57. Re:wont last by cyberchondriac · 2014-11-21 03:46 · Score: 1
  
  So does every other major retailer. But the fact that Walmart was actually honoring these prices matches kind of takes the wind out of your sails.
  
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58. Re: wont last by bluefoxlucid · 2014-11-21 04:26 · Score: 2
  
  Because people are simple, and everything is both simple and complex. I can explain to you how to solve poverty; the solution is simple, but incredibly nuanced. It's a very short list of policy features, but it avoids an incredible number of policy features that would create sub-optimal or even destructive results. It relies on a handful of economic concepts which, when explained, amount to massively complex interconnected systems, which in turn come down to simple human behavioral psychology, which in turn becomes incredibly complex when examined deeper.
  People are often keen to take the simplistic--supply and demand versus competition--and claim simple behaviors. Supply of houses? Prices will come down because more houses can be built, more apartments can be offered. This explanation ignores risk, ignores the cost risk of building more housing such that supply exceeds demand, ignores the nuanced scarcity of housing (there's plenty, but you can only get a given apartment or house at a given time, and they're all non-fungible), and ignores that people will routinely pay the common above-cost price even if some other market player has the same good cheaper. Prices don't just continuously drop when competition shows up; prices can even creep upwards in a competitive market, as competitors learn that a $500 good and a $515 good both sell, and then everyone sells it for $515 until some competitors start selling it for $530 and don't take a loss in sales volume.
  People don't like this. They say, "No, you would lower your price to attract more business. If one person did it and then had more business than he could handle, and the others didn't drop prices, another competitor would enter the market at the low price." That doesn't fucking work.
  
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59. Re:wont last by JackieBrown · 2014-11-21 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  If that were the case here, Walmart would not be out any PS4s.
60. Re:wont last by Pope · 2014-11-21 05:43 · Score: 1
  
  I have seen things like that at Walmart too, like special version of a DVD that contains an extra trailer, or a drill that doesn't come with the carrying case like it does from Home Depot, all differences that cause it to have a different SKU.
  That's a bit different, since they tend to be overtly marketed as "retailer-exclusive versions" in the case of DVDs (eg. Steel case edition only available at Best Buy, extra trailer only available at Target, etc.)
  
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61. Re:wont last by Pope · 2014-11-21 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  That, and the entire mattress industry is a scam.
  
  --
  It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
62. Re:wont last by denzacar · 2014-11-21 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  then insist they honor the contract?
  Should they fail.... bring it to court
  Who "they"?
  Is "they" Amazon?
  If so, from my personal experience in dealing with returns of damaged items and refunds for rather costly postage (more than the value of the items), your claim will be forwarded to their customer support somewhere in India.
  Then it becomes a waiting and an e-mail game.
  Then you get a refund.
  I've actually had a case where they would refund me a wrong sum, first a completely unrelated smaller one to which I complained, then a complete sum they owed me.
  Then I had to remind them that they've overpaid the return, to which they replied "Meh, just keep it."
  All you have to do is be persistent and courteous. And you need to have a reason for your claim.
  
  --
  Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
63. Re:wont last by luther349 · 2014-11-21 06:04 · Score: 1
  
  this story a bit old now but i talked with some walmart employees on this matter and some where smart enough to go wait this isnt right but then there manager would approve it.
64. Re:wont last by afidel · 2014-11-21 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  Small claims court, no way does a PS4 level claim make it to a jury.
  
  --
  There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
65. Re:wont last by arvindsg · 2014-11-21 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  Its strange to see people talking about a corporation deserving to be taken to cleaners for being fools, but same company is classified evil for launching a slimy scheme trying to benefit on gullible people. People and their companies are evil, not companies.
66. Re:wont last by Straif · 2014-11-21 06:32 · Score: 1
  
  There are so many problems with your idea that I have to assume you've never actually shopped anywhere, ever.
  Who determines the "minimum profit" in your proposal? I'm assuming the Government has to set all industry profit rates to prevent price variances.
  In your world are all suppliers prices fixed? Can they never drop prices to clear inventory? Can they never reduce production costs to be able to lower wholesale pricing?
  Are loss-leaders outlawed?
  The questions and problems with your simplistic view, are endless.
  There are literally hundreds of ways one store can acquire inventory cheaper than another. Sometimes it's a pure numbers game (Walmart's specialty), other times it just a timing issue (end of life cycle dumping by supplier) and sometimes you may just be able to get in on a one time sale (another store/supplier closing and selling off stock).
  
  --
  Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
67. Re:wont last by Straif · 2014-11-21 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  I can't say I've ever seen someone complain about price matching before. What exactly prevents a store from competing on price, even with Walmart's price matching policy in place?
  There is no law stating you have to shop at Walmart and if a store routinely has lower prices than them most people will go there rather dealing with the hassle of having to have every item price matched? For Walmart, if they are seeing a competing store routinely undercutting their prices they will adjust to compete. That's a rare occurrence, since Walmart has the purchasing muscle to throw around, but it can happen.
  Price matching is generally only used on sale items or one or two regular purchases and generally as a convenience so that you don't have to go to another store to continue your shopping. Of course Walmart and other price matching stores hope you don't find the lower price somewhere else but how exactly does the fact that if you do they will match it impact pricing as a whole?
  
  --
  Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
68. Re: wont last by Obfuscant · 2014-11-21 06:51 · Score: 1
  
  yes it's okay to take advantage of people. that's how capitalism works.
  What I wrote was in the context of "if they decide that all it takes is showing a checkout clerk a printed page that says someone else sells the same thing for less". You have to believe that SOMEONE in the Walmart organization in the chain of command that made that decision would think "wait a minute, we SELL computers and printers that can be used to print out anything the customer wants" and put some better limits on the process. They chose not to. That there are valid reasons to make that choice doesn't remove the fact they did choose.
  I'll also say that I see a difference between "deserves to be" and "is legal and appropriate for someone to do to them". Does Walmart deserve to have it happen to them based on their decision? Does that make it right for people to do it to them? No.
  What's interesting about your comment is that you refer to the Walmart corporation as "people". In the comment just above yours on my page I see:
  
  People and their companies are evil, not companies.
  Which is an interesting contradiction. "People and their companies" includes "companies", so how can it be wrong to refer to companies as evil? And how can anyone believe that a reference to "companies" doesn't include the people who are necessary to create and run them? Until Bender or Colossus start filing incorporation papers, people are an inherent part of any company and in any reference to the ethical nature thereof.
69. Re: wont last by suutar · 2014-11-21 06:51 · Score: 1
  
  Only if you're lying. If you're taking advantage of ignorance, desperation, and/or gullibility, but your statements are not false and do not imply falsehood to someone who actually knows what's going on, it's just "good marketing".
70. Re:wont last by Zaiff+Urgulbunger · 2014-11-21 06:53 · Score: 1
  
  Simply "save as" the HTML and then modify to your heart's desire.
  You don't even need to work that hard - just press F12 and edit the live page and print! I can't believe how dumb Walmart are... or maybe I can.
71. Re:wont last by pr0fessor · 2014-11-21 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  Walmart is generally cheaper than other stores where I live by a large margin as for online... depends what and how much you are getting and whether you can wait for it to ship.
72. Re: wont last by operagost · 2014-11-21 07:34 · Score: 1
  
  Um... producing a document that claims another company is offering an item for sale at a certain price when none of that information is true is definitely "false" and fraudulent.
  
  --
  
  Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
73. Re:wont last by vux984 · 2014-11-21 12:03 · Score: 1
  
  How about a legitimate offer - Playstation for $1, with $499 shipping?
  I'll take 50, don't bother shipping them I'll send a van to pick them up.
  If you can supply in bulk, I'll take 100,000 and will handle all arrangements to have a container and loading crew sent over.
  Seriously, unless shipping is separately negotiable or there is an option to let me pick it up myself, how about we just recognize it as a legitimate offer to sell a playstation 4 for $500.
74. Re:wont last by nbritton · 2014-11-21 17:33 · Score: 1
  
  But its being misrepresented as real price, in a real offer to sell real playstations to the real public.
  Assuming they sell you the ps4 on amazon for $100, if they put up on amazon that they'll sell you a ps4 for $100, then go buy it from walmart and sell it to you it's not fraud. Heck they could sell it to their friends, although that would probably be conspiracy.
75. Re: wont last by baristabrian · 2014-11-22 06:00 · Score: 1
  
  You mean: "I don't want to answer the question, because I'm a flaming, disingenuous hypocrite?"
  
  --
  -- "I'm not in a hurry; I'm in Hawaii." The Homeless Guy
76. Re: wont last by baristabrian · 2014-11-22 06:04 · Score: 2
  
  Personally, I tend to see people who believe that "give a fuck" is something that can be *bought* as spiritual reprobates. Just saying.
  
  --
  -- "I'm not in a hurry; I'm in Hawaii." The Homeless Guy
77. Re: wont last by dave.haku · 2014-11-22 06:10 · Score: 1
  
  Of course not. But every single other woman that wants to go out at night and have fun do carry a mace can already. If this particular woman does not then she deserves it. If she's too naïve, then yes, she deserves it.
  No one deserves to be raped, but this is not the ideal world you fantasize about in your head. Take measures to prevent getting raped or mugged. People can't be trusted.
78. Re: wont last by leslie.satenstein · 2014-11-22 07:51 · Score: 1
  
  Except that is completely wrong. Fraud and theft are illegal in free market capitalism. Rape and murder are illegal too. Why does everyone think they understand and are qualified to speak about and criticize economic systems when they have only the barest idea of what the words even mean, much less the history and principles behind them?
  Its legal fraud if you pay cash. (Cash is hard to trace) and get away with it. I suppose you could bring the item back as an unopened return and get cash back.
79. Re: wont last by jbee02 · 2014-11-23 18:24 · Score: 1
  
  I would have called bs on that customer if he tried to pull the ps4 for under a $100.
80. Re: wont last by ilsaloving · 2014-11-24 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  Hey now... If politicians can do it, why can't everyone else?
81. Re: wont last by suutar · 2014-11-24 11:27 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed. I was trying to address the more general "it's okay to take advantage of people; that's how capitalism works".
82. Re:wont last by vux984 · 2014-11-24 11:58 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe there is no Sears near you.
  Maybe they are out of stock.
  Maybe their service sucks.
  etc..
  Maybe. But then why should Wards price match for you?
  You clearly can't or won't go to Sears, so if you want a mattress you'll pay Ward's asking price.
83. Re:wont last by vux984 · 2014-11-24 13:32 · Score: 1
  
  makes price comparisons hard.
  Right. Sums it up. Online or otherwise, two local stores or otherwise.
  You can check things like technology, spring count, spring gauge, coil counts, meterials, dimensions, etc but at the end of the day your right... you still just don't know if what you are getting online is the same as the bed your lay on at the store.
  And even if the specs seem to line up, it may or may not be the same thing.The building materials (fabric quality), general construction / craftsmanship, and QA still may not be the same. Whether you care or not is a separate question.
  It may be just as comfortable and just as good in every way. Or the online version may have cheaped out some other place you didn't think to look, perhaps they skipped a QA step so you may or may not get a good unit, or even worse... maybe your getting the stuff that didn't quite meet the store brand's standards. So they slap a different model number and off-name brand badge on it and unload it somewhere else.
  I used to recall it said that generic film and fuji film were made in the same plant and were the same thing. Technically they were or at least could be the same some of the time. But the QA and acceptance standards on the stuff that got sent out with the fuji brand conformed to markedly higher standards.
  So upshot was the off brand stuff was just as good, except when it wasn't.
  So online pricing being lower vs shops is not completely a scam, nor is it 'just mattresses'... nearly all furniture is like this.
84. Re:wont last by msauve · 2014-11-24 13:54 · Score: 1
  
  I see what you did there - completely avoided the point. Try to pull your "I'll pick it up" shtick with Amazon, it won't work. They don't combine shipping, either.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
85. Re:wont last by vux984 · 2014-11-24 16:27 · Score: 1
  
  I see what you did there - completely avoided the point.
  What was your point? That playing transparent games to shift the value of the transaction to another 'line item' in the transaction isn't going to fool anybody with half a brain?
  Because you could offer "Buy this potato for $499 and then get a Playstation for $1 too."
  Should a price matching policy be therefore bound to sell anyone of those people $1 Playstations also? Or do they get to force you to match the whole deal... 1 potato, plus 1 playsation for $500?
  Hell... buy one get one half off deals. Same thing... you don't get to look at the get one half off part, separate that as its own thing and then ask someone to price match at 50% off.
  What's the difference?
  Either way its always super discounted price on X is contingent on you paying X + Y. And price X only available in that arrangement. Therefore the price is X+Y. Not X.
  Oh and the potatoe idea is a great tax dodge too! because basic food stuffs are usually exempt and/or zero-rated. So buyers only owe tax on the 1$ potatoe. I bet the local tax collection authority will be helpless against this. Helpless... or they'll string you up for tax evasion. Probably the latter.
86. Re:wont last by msauve · 2014-11-25 00:08 · Score: 1
  
  Such an offer can be completely legitimate, and is not fraudulent. Sorry for your lack of reading skills, keep trying.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
87. Re:wont last by vux984 · 2014-11-25 04:03 · Score: 1
  
  Such an offer can be completely legitimate, and is not fraudulent. Sorry for your lack of reading skills, keep trying.
  Sure its a legitimate offer. It's a legitimate offer to sell a Playstation for $500.
  And by the way, offering a free or $1 Playstation with purchase of a $499 potato and sales avoiding taxes would land you in trouble. Practically everywhere has clauses like:
  âIf various elements of a bundled service are not naturally bundled in the ordinary course of business, it shall be treated as provision of a service which attracts the highest amount of service tax.â(TM)
  And the 'ordinary course of business' is not the ordinary course of -your- business, it looks at the entire market.They can also look at your own books and records to establish taxable amounts -- just because you wrote $499 potatoe, $1 ps4 doesn't mean they won't decide $499.80 ps4 $0.20 potato based on your own accounting records.
88. Re: wont last by doccus · 2014-11-29 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  Well, the highly influential Adam Smith at first believed in unfettered capitalism, but certainly later on had a change of heart, when he, well, grew one. He eventiually found it to be an absolute impediment to a proper economy.
89. Re:wont last by The+New+Guy+2.0 · 2014-11-30 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  There needs to be a more secure system for coupons, as right now the barcode doesn't have enough data space to communicate what the offer exactly is. They need to move to 2D style codes such as QR in order to be secure.
Genius. by cosm · 2014-11-20 12:26 · Score: 1

People's ingenuity and tenacity to game the system never fails to amaze me.

--
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
1. Re:Genius. by jratcliffe · 2014-11-20 12:34 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  There's "gaming the system" and there's fraud. This isn't clipping Home Depot coupons and taking advantage of Lowe's willingness to accept competitor coupons. This is forging your own Home Depot coupons on your computer, printing them out, and using them at Lowe's, since you know that Home Depot won't accept the forgeries.
2. Re:Genius. by Aighearach · 2014-11-20 12:43 · Score: 2
  
  Interesting, but in the summary they don't say anything about forgeries, they talk about people with amazon seller accounts creating sales in order to have them matched. That is nothing at all like your example. In fact, your example looks to me like an intentional fraud; it claimed to have a relevant point, and even had the form of a point, but didn't match the accusation at all.
3. Re:Genius. by timeOday · 2014-11-20 12:45 · Score: 1
  
  This is basically just price-tag switching. In the olden days of stick-on price tags it wasn't considered terribly clever to do this!
4. Re:Genius. by vakuona · 2014-11-20 12:48 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It is fraud if you create a web page purely to deceive Walmart into giving you a discount on a product you had no intention of selling for the price.
  It is deeply dishonest, and there is no other excuse for that behaviour.
5. Re:Genius. by Tablizer · 2014-11-20 13:18 · Score: 1
  
  Is it really "deceive" or just following the rules as written?
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
6. Re:Genius. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 13:46 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Create Web page with deeply discounted console.
  Buy 3, or more PS/4 From Walmart.
  Sell one for the advertised price--making it not fraud.
  Sell another for 3x the price you advertised the first one at.
  Keep one for yourself.
  Profit!
  In the stock market its called short selling.
7. Re:Genius. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 14:18 · Score: 1
  
  Legally speaking, it's a bit more complicated, I think. The original creation of the "fake" Amazon page is most likely fraudulent (on the assumption it was created to defraud a price-matching seller, or to defraud a putative purchaser from the Amazon page itself), but it's probably not technically fraud for another person with no connection to the creator of the page or who has no "actual knowledge" that it's fake to take advantage of it. It would be like trying to get a price-match on a printed advertisement that "appears to be" a typo. You wouldn't be able to force Walmart to match the price, but you wouldn't be liable for fraud if they did.
8. Re:Genius. by Oligonicella · 2014-11-20 14:36 · Score: 1
  
  It is really deceive - without the scare quotes no less.
9. Re:Genius. by FlyHelicopters · 2014-11-20 15:29 · Score: 1
  
  Is it really immoral to fraud a company which systematically refuses to pay its workers anything near a living wage?
  Yes, because two wrongs don't make a right. Or did your parents not teach you that?
  If you punch me, does that mean I can punch your sister? Does that make it "ok"?
10. Re:Genius. by Neil+Boekend · 2014-11-20 21:09 · Score: 1
  
  If you can deceive while following the rules as written then it doesn't stop being deceiving. That just means the rules are poorly written.
  See tax evasion.
  
  --
  Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
11. Re:Genius. by bloodhawk · 2014-11-20 22:33 · Score: 2
  
  It is complete and utter fraud, no ifs or buts. The intention of the fake listing is purely to defraud Walmart. This is not a shades of grey situation, it is straight out criminal behavior that should see them if caught be prosecuteded
12. Re:Genius. by Jason+Levine · 2014-11-21 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  Here's a test: The person is creating an Amazon seller page and marking the item as "on sale" for a deeply discounted price, right? What if a few people were to find the page and order the product? Would the "seller" be willing to fulfill the order at that price? If so, then perhaps he isn't committing fraud. If the orders would be cancelled for no reason, the account closed, and a new one opened, then this is just fraud.
  
  --
  My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
13. Re:Genius. by jratcliffe · 2014-11-21 03:06 · Score: 1
  
  "they talk about people with amazon seller accounts creating sales in order to have them matched"
  No, they're not creating "sales." They're creating sales pages they have no intention of actually delivering. Unless you think that the people pulling this scam would have happily shipped out hundreds of PS4s at $80 each, when the orders came in.
14. Re:Genius. by cyberchondriac · 2014-11-21 03:48 · Score: 1
  
  There's "gaming the system" and there's fraud.
  That's a very, very, fine line. Gaming the system is in many ways fraudulent.
  
  This isn't clipping Home Depot coupons and taking advantage of Lowe's willingness to accept competitor coupons.
  
  Not sure if this is your example of gaming the system.. because it's not, it is the system, as intended. Lowes does that to attract more business.
  
  --
  
  Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
15. Re:Genius. by Aighearach · 2014-11-24 11:55 · Score: 1
  
  It is fraud if you create a web page purely to deceive Walmart into giving you a discount on a product you had no intention of selling for the price.
  It is deeply dishonest, and there is no other excuse for that behaviour.
  Yes, if you tell the lawyer suing you, or the cop investigating you, "yeah, I had no intent at all to sell for that price, durhur" then that is fraud.
  If you don't say anything at all, how do they prove that your intent was fraudulent, rather than that your limited time promotion just didn't have any takers, and then you reconsidered it?
  Just waving your hands and saying "fraud" because you think it is obvious is different than saying it is demonstrable that it is fraud. It might be very difficult to establish criminal intent rather than incompetence. And without a confession, you'd never demonstrate that it was "purely" to deceive.
16. Re:Genius. by Aighearach · 2014-11-24 12:01 · Score: 1
  
  It is complete and utter fraud, no ifs or buts. The intention of the fake listing is purely to defraud Walmart. This is not a shades of grey situation, it is straight out criminal behavior that should see them if caught be prosecuteded
  If you're not going into the ifs and buts, you're going to fail to prove intent at all. You'd in fact have to go there just to make your accusation anything more than raw assertion.
  It is in fact all shades of gray, rather than without them. Proving somebody else's intent takes more than simply feeling more strongly that they must be lying. ;)
  What about a person really did have a big sale at below cost, and really did also buy one from their competitor at a matching price for their own use, because they knew it was below cost? What about a legit competitor who is trying to incite a price war by selling below cost, and then buying from his competitor at the same price, believing his competitor to be somebody who gets more butt-hurt by losing money and who has less stomach for the price war? Obviously that would be stupid if the other guy is Walmart, but stupidity isn't fraud.
  This is just a couple seconds worth from a layperson. Actual criminal liability requires a giant stack of "ifs [and] buts." And fraud isn't "strict liability," it requires intent, so it can't be without gray areas. Anything involving intent is mired in gray.
17. Re:Genius. by Aighearach · 2014-11-24 12:04 · Score: 1
  
  The real key from the perspective of the crooks doing it, and the cops if it is not ongoing, is if such order were actually placed. If they manage to find a way to keep orders from being placed that can't be proven as intentional, if they can accidentally or through mild incompetence passively prevent any orders, then it is probably difficult to establish their intent. Obviously in the case where orders were made and canceled by the seller, than that becomes a slam dunk for a prosecutor. Without that, I doubt they go to court unless you bought at least $5000 worth of something.
18. Re:Genius. by Aighearach · 2014-11-24 12:06 · Score: 1
  
  An example of a moral crime. Is it really immoral to fraud a company which systematically refuses to pay its workers anything near a living wage?
  If you've asserted that it is fraud, then of course it is immoral to do it. Any defense of the morality has to deny that there was fraud, and claim the rules are simply favorable to people who understand some aspect of it.
19. Re:Genius. by Aighearach · 2014-11-24 12:10 · Score: 1
  
  You can't demonstrate that there was no sale unless there is an unfulfilled order, or the seller indicates that they would not have filled orders. If nobody ordered anything, it is just an unknown, and unknowns require giving everybody the benefit of the doubt.
  It doesn't matter what I think they would do theoretically. What matters is what did they actually do? If no orders were placed and they say that they would have honored any orders made, well, maybe they would have. I've pointed out mistaken sale prices in stores over a dozen times in my life, and maybe 2 or 3 times the store gave me the price the sticker said, because they were just that honest. The rest of them all said, oh no, that isn't the "real" price, that is just a printing error. The ones who honored the price weren't being fraudulent at all, and before they honored the price, they weren't being fraudulent either. By your claim, you can say that in those real situations they were already being fraudulent before they gave me the posted price, simply because you don't believe them that they will honor it. They probably won't, but they might, and you can't say they didn't honor it without attempting the purchase.
20. Re:Genius. by jratcliffe · 2014-11-25 01:08 · Score: 1
  
  So, your argument is that someone:
  1. Created a page at Amazon listing a $400 game console at $80, which would net them maybe $70, after fees.
  2. Went into Walmart, and used that page to get the console for $80, plus tax.
  3. Planned to sell that same console to whoever bought it through the Amazon link, losing $20 or so on each console.
  Yes, that's theoretically possible.
  It's also theoretically possible that they were purchasing test units for the Archons of Centauri 7, who will then gift us with their technology for unlimited clean energy, but have a religious objection to paying more than $80 for a PS4.
  Retailers have the right to correct pricing errors, if they were clearly errors (i.e. Xbox for $40 rather than $400). This was no pricing error - there's no way the Amazon seller/Walmart buyer can argue that he made a pricing error on his webpage, but at the same time demand that Walmart match the pricing error.
21. Re:Genius. by Aighearach · 2014-11-25 09:12 · Score: 1
  
  No, you miss the entire point; fraud is not the default. The default is that they are innocent. Accusing them of fraud, you have to have some reasonable proof about their intent. That their actions look suspicious does not establish anything at all about their intent. It is not a valid basis for claiming that what they did was fraud, certainly not to claim it was clearly so. So if a person says, "gee, that looks like it might have been fraud to me" then that is a reasonable thing to say. If a person says "that is clearly fraud," well no, that is clearly a false accusation, and even slanderous. There has to be something that establishes their intent, for example if they actually did refuse orders for that price.
  Selling something at a loss does not establish any mal-intent at all.
Amazon doens't charge the same price to everybody! by The+New+Guy+2.0 · 2014-11-20 12:27 · Score: 2

Retail stores have a hard time changing prices as prices signs and labels are regulated by state law... Amazon can very easily change the price in cookie-based pages. I'm not sure why Wal-Mart thinks they can price match when that happens.
no seller account needed by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 12:30 · Score: 1

only firebug.
Try it, go firebug an amazon page, screen cap that. done, easy, 30 second investment.
1. Re:no seller account needed by watermark · 2014-11-20 12:48 · Score: 1
  
  Same thing came to mind
2. Re:no seller account needed by Jason+Levine · 2014-11-21 02:18 · Score: 1
  
  Or, if you're using Chrome the built-in Developer Tools. Even IE has built-in tools to manipulate live HTML. Hey, this iPhone is on sale for $79.99!
  (NOTE: I don't actually advocate altering a page, printing it out, and getting a price match on the altered price. That would be fraud. That said, it can be fun to mess with the live HTML of web pages.)
  
  --
  My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Scam's Already Been Stopped by jratcliffe · 2014-11-20 12:33 · Score: 5, Informative

WalMart's already wised up, and changed the rules. Now it only applies to items on Amazon SOLD BY Amazon. No more marketplace sellers.
http://consumerist.com/2014/11...
1. Re:Scam's Already Been Stopped by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 13:04 · Score: 1
  
  But are they still letting you just print things off and accepting them as truth? Someone ought to tell them about Chrome or Firefox's developer modes. Or Photoshop, or...
2. Re:Scam's Already Been Stopped by jordanjay29 · 2014-11-20 17:41 · Score: 1
  
  Better yet, my local Walmart always has THE WORST connections in store. If I stand by the doors, I can maybe get 3G, usually 2G. It drops off immediately once I enter the store. This necessitates loading any webpages I want before I get in the door, so I could easily take a screenshot or create a local page and cashiers would be unable to verify if it was fake due to my lack of connection. The only way they could verify it is by looking it up themselves, but Walmart doesn't have internet-connected registers.
3. Re:Scam's Already Been Stopped by jellomizer · 2014-11-20 23:03 · Score: 1
  
  You could do that...
  However if they do check out the forgery they will probably treat you like a shoplifter.
  I have no love for Walmart. But part of the reason why companies treat the customer like they are criminals is because too many are.
  It is one thing to steal food to feed your family if you can't afford it. But a play station?
  And no Fat Tony defense.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
4. Re:Scam's Already Been Stopped by Pope · 2014-11-21 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  The building is likely heavily steel-framed.
  
  --
  It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
5. Re:Scam's Already Been Stopped by luther349 · 2014-11-21 06:06 · Score: 1
  
  this was not the only glitch sears miss priced a wii-u for 90$ they quickly fixed it but people took the glitched price to Walmart and got wii-u for 90$ so it was from a totally legit site.
Uhm... edited HTML? by The+New+Guy+2.0 · 2014-11-20 12:36 · Score: 1

Wal-Mart shouldn't be relying on paper printouts... can't those be easily be faked?
1. Re:Uhm... edited HTML? by jordanjay29 · 2014-11-20 17:44 · Score: 1
  
  Not for a while, they won't. Walmart doesn't have internet terminals at their registers, not even at customer service. With the amount of stores that Walmart owns, can you imagine how much it would take for them to upgrade their registers to add this capability? And for what, so customers could get a discount (i.e. Walmart loses money)? No, sir.
2. Re:Uhm... edited HTML? by The+New+Guy+2.0 · 2014-11-30 09:47 · Score: 1
  
  Yep, WalMart has no way of tracking Amazon's prices without help from Amazon. Try recoding Amazon-subsidiary Woot's prices and see what happens.
Oh, boy! by reboot246 · 2014-11-20 12:43 · Score: 1, Flamebait

These are the same Walmart employees who think they're worth fifteen bucks an hour? A six year old could see through the scam!
1. Re:Oh, boy! by timeOday · 2014-11-20 12:49 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Alternately, these might be Wal-Mart employees who've figured out how earn more than $15/hr by taking a cut of the fake savings, without appearing overtly guilty. At least, you for one are eager to assume they're too dumb to be guilty, which is probably true of their bosses also.
2. Re:Oh, boy! by OzPeter · 2014-11-20 13:16 · Score: 2
  
  These are the same Walmart employees who think they're worth fifteen bucks an hour?
  
  This is getting off topic, but minimum wage in the US has taken a big hit due to inflation. At the very least if compared to the 1960's the current minimum wage needs to be about $11/hr in order to have the same buying power.
  
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3. Re:Oh, boy! by FooAtWFU · 2014-11-20 15:34 · Score: 1
  
  $10.69 in 2014 dollars, but it's worth noting that was at its peak and so a uniquely misleading selection if you're comparing the current minimum wage to historical norms.
  
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4. Re:Oh, boy! by jratcliffe · 2014-11-21 03:01 · Score: 1
  
  The underlying data (through 2012) is here. Minimum wage (in 2012 $) peaked in 1968 at $10.34, has averaged (from 1938-2012) $7.09/hour in 2012 $.
  In inflation-adjusted terms, the minimum wage was lower than current levels until 1956, above current levels from 1956 to 1984, and then mostly below current levels again since 1984 (with the exception of 1997-1998).
5. Re:Oh, boy! by jratcliffe · 2014-11-21 03:05 · Score: 1
  
  Oops, forgot link: http://www.dol.gov/minwage/cha...
Hooray for arbitrage! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 12:48 · Score: 2, Interesting

This is great news, glad some savvy consumers "abused the system." Price-matching guarantees, far from being made to help the consumer, are actually economic game theory made to preserve a store's sales. Example:
1. You are shopping for an item in a store, but discover that it is priced better elsewhere. If the store has no price match, you will leave and obtain the item elsewhere. The store loses sales because it is not as economically efficient as its competitors, and goes out of business. The free market marches on and we all feel good.
2. You shop in a store, and discover that the item is priced better elsewhere, but the store offers a "price match." You take it, thinking ha! I just got the item for the real "lowest price," and didn't even have to leave!
But what happens in #2? Oligopoly through game theory. Every retailer has a "price-match" policy, and they all know each others' prices. No retailer will drastically drop the price, because they know that they can divide and conquer by just keeping the prices the same. Why would you drop your price if you knew if those customers who knew better can get it at your competitor?
Meanwhile, while YOU may have gotten the lowest market price through the price match, less savvy consumers pay the higher "sticker" price. If #1 had been allowed to play out, the overpriced seller would have gone out of business, leaving only the superior merchant. EVERY consumer would then benefit from the lowest price, because the inefficient merchant would be gone, replaced by others.
Conclusion: These price-matching schemes are anti-competitive, and some customers took advantage of it. While they might not have known it, they are prime examples of using arbitrage to uncover bad policies and mispricing by the market. If I walked up to a cashier and said "can I buy that Playstation for $90?" they would say no. But if I say "your competitor is selling it for $90, give me a Playstation!" how is that any different? They can still say no, but they don't because their management is desparate to keep you in their store.
1. Re:Hooray for arbitrage! by SomeoneFromBelgium · 2014-11-20 21:25 · Score: 1
  
  Enter the internet.
  People will simply compare prices and buy on-line.
  So if you get them in your store half the work of selling an item off-line is already done.
Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...) by jtara · 2014-11-20 12:54 · Score: 5, Informative

Fry's has a simple system for this.
1. You tell the sales associate (it's not done at the checkout counter) what site you want them to match.
2. They check it against the list of sites that they are willing to match.
3. They go to the site on their computer, and look it up.
4. They print an invoice that you take to the counter with your purchase.
5. BTW, they have incentive to do this, because they get something any time they print an invoice. I don't know the details, but it would be dumb for Fry's to withhold whatever the reward is just because it was a price match. So, anytime somebody at Fry's is actually helpful (rare, I know, but sometimes happens...) don't balk when they want to print an invoice!
You don't get away with just showing them your screen.
You can show them a screen, from the web or some price-search app, and then they will go to their own browser to look it up.
1. Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...) by dunkindave · 2014-11-20 13:36 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  There was a story a few years ago about Best Buy rigging their in-store computers to show a higher price than their website to the public. It was a shadow system that looked like the external site, but gave different prices. Its purpose was to trick people who look something up online, see the price, go to the store, find it at a different price, and complain. The salesman would pull it up on their "website" like the customer says they did, show the customer that they were mistaken, the marked price is the price it shows, and the customer was faced with either walking out or accepting the higher price. Smartphones were the fall of this practice since customers no longer had to use the Best Buy systems to look things up. They could whip out their iPhone/Android/BlackBerry/(cringe)Windows and look it up for themselves. When some of these people questioned the sales person's answer and independently verified the info on the spot, which didn't match, all hell broke loose.
2. Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...) by SvnLyrBrto · 2014-11-20 17:42 · Score: 1
  
  In addition to said shenanigans, some of Best Buy's employees are just flat-out dense.
  One time, I had a case where the in-store price was higher than the internet price on Best Buy's own website. I don't know if it was an error in their database, or if stores in more expensive areas (This was in San Francisco.) have the ability to set their prices higher. Regardless, they refused to price match their own internet price. The excuse they gave was that bestbuy.com was not on the list of sites they price match. I was told this by both a sales associate and his manager, when I asked to kick it up a level.
  Thing is, bestbuy.com allows you to place an order online and pick it up in-store from their inventory. So I just placed my order on my iPhone, took off for lunch somewhere, about 45 minutes later got the email that my order was ready for pickup, and dropped by the same store on my way home and grabbed the thing at the lower price from the customer service counter.
  Stupid and obtuse behavior across the board on their part.
  
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3. Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...) by TimTucker · 2014-11-20 21:37 · Score: 1
  
  If you knew what you were doing, it was actually a pretty good system -- you could order out of stock items that were clearance in-store at the in-store price and have them delivered. Probably not what they intended, but the results weren't always anti-consumer.
4. Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...) by Jason+Levine · 2014-11-21 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  I've had Walmart do this to us too. The price on Walmart.com was cheaper and there was "ship to store", but they wouldn't match the price on the exact same item in the store. The sales associate said that the online store and physical stores are two separate entities. She also mentioned that she's had to deal with this herself. She would go to her car during her lunch break, order something from Walmart.com to pick up in the store, and then grab the item when she left her shift.
  
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5. Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...) by phorm · 2014-11-21 04:23 · Score: 2
  
  So you still gave them your business... is what you're saying?
6. Re:Dumb-asses! (Fry's is not so dumb...) by luther349 · 2014-11-21 06:08 · Score: 1
  
  now they do but when this happened showing the site was good enough.
I don't blame WalMart Employees by Prien715 · 2014-11-20 13:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

After all, when your employer pays you terribly, why do you care? Reject the idea, customer complains to your manager. Who is also, may not be the brightest star in the constellation, who may discipline/fire you.
Also? Average wage at WalMart: $8/hr (weekly: 8*8=64 * 5 days=$320). Which means, pulling this once and reselling the console is almost a week's pay. Taking $300 from WalMart, whose family owns more money than the bottom 42% of the US combined to feed your family doesn't seem like the most heartless crime in the world.

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1. Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees by TrollstonButterbeans · 2014-11-20 14:28 · Score: 1
  
  People with your attitude is why some companies like to hire Mexicans for labor jobs and Indians for technical jobs.
  
  Because as a rule of thumb, they appreciate their job.
  
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2. Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees by Fwipp · 2014-11-20 14:35 · Score: 1
  
  FUCK. I totally misread your last comment. Totes agreed with you.
3. Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees by Camembert · 2014-11-20 14:51 · Score: 1
  
  It's taking it from WalMart, not the Walmart employees.
  Walmart is worth almost $500 billion - I'm sure their bottom line can afford to take a hit.
  ( I imagine some of these scammers are being total dicks to the poor employees, which is awful of them. But scamming the company? I don't really see a huge problem with that. )
  I detest that twisted logic that because a company is rich, it is acceptable to steal from them.
4. Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees by ArsonSmith · 2014-11-20 17:41 · Score: 1
  
  It is not nice to take money from my 401k.
  
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5. Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees by jordanjay29 · 2014-11-20 17:53 · Score: 1
  
  Sadly, this won't work out in the end. Any store that finds itself with a shortfall in profit will inevitably wind up cutting worker hours to make it up.
6. Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees by TrollstonButterbeans · 2014-11-20 19:28 · Score: 1
  
  If you are looking for a hefty paycheck, and your plan is to be a cashier or a shelf-stocker at Walmart you are a fool.
  
  If you want to make $50,000 a year as a cashier or shelf-stocker, good luck with that!
  
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7. Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees by EdwardFurlong · 2014-11-21 02:58 · Score: 1
  
  Most small businesses are just as bad to me, you just are not aware of what they do. Over billing customers, cheating on taxes, hiring their kids to do nothing for a bunch of money, ignoring safety regulations, then expecting you to be oh so grateful they give you the privilege of working for them. It still doesn't mean I think you should scam the "mom and pop" shop, but they are all the same to me.
8. Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees by neminem · 2014-11-21 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  Huh? I mean, I fully expect to get 0 social security money when I retire; it's just not even part of my planning. If I get any, I'll consider it free bonus money, the same as if I won the lottery or something. But my 401k is money I personally put in, that is in my name and nobody else's, so why would you not expect I would get it when I retire? That makes no sense. Or are you thinking the stock market is going to completely collapse and all our money is going to be totally worthless? If that happened, I think we'd have bigger things to worry about than our 401ks...
9. Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees by phorm · 2014-11-21 04:24 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, because it's only SWM's that have a bad attitude or screw the employer/customers, right?
  Nothing could ever go wrong by outsourcing to a country where labour laws and accountability are even worse...
10. Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees by popoutman · 2014-11-21 04:54 · Score: 1
  
  The company can easily say "no, thanks" to the offer of the reduced price. After all the sticker prices are not final, they are only an offer to treat. There's nothing to stop someone negotiating a price that suits. If both parties agree to it, it's not illegal. Ergo, it's not stealing. If using fake prices as a negotiation tool, it is underhanded yes, but illegal, no.
  
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11. Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees by luther349 · 2014-11-21 06:10 · Score: 1
  
  yes this is how this scam was working some of the csa who knew the prices of the consoles would red flage it and say no then there manger would ok it.
12. Re:I don't blame WalMart Employees by vm146j2 · 2014-11-21 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  40 hr workweeks at Walmart? And then you woke up. . .that would require benefits beyond links to the SNAP card application website.
  
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  "Lost time is not found again."
idiots by Anonymous Coward · 2014-11-20 13:16 · Score: 1

People have been doing this for months at least, and now some braggarts couldn't just shut up and enjoy it. They had to advertise the scheme and ruin it for everyone else.
Right on! by plopez · 2014-11-20 14:27 · Score: 1

You won't see me crying over a thief that got robbed. Wal-Mart has systematically shorted employee pay, forced their employees and their families onto welfare, and demanded tax cuts meaning that other taxpayers foot the bill. They are also supporting a corrupt and oppressive government in China and n doing so helped destroy many middle class lives by having jobs moved there.
So boohoo, they got what they deserved. Hats off to those who 'stick it to the man'.

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1. Re:Right on! by CauseBy · 2014-11-20 16:32 · Score: 1
  
  Completely agreed. I can think of a couple nice things to say about WalMart, but I can think of thousands of horrible things to say about WalMart, and I can think of even more to say about the Walton family. Fuck the lot of them.
2. Re:Right on! by plopez · 2014-11-22 05:51 · Score: 1
  
  I've been boycotting them for years. And encouraging other to do the same. But their marketing engine is better funded than mine.
  
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3. Re:Right on! by plopez · 2014-11-22 05:52 · Score: 1
  
  Is there an employment ad somewhere you can point to back up your claim?
  
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  putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
makes me sad by ionymous · 2014-11-20 14:30 · Score: 1

to see how much this site has changed. So many commenters sound entitled or fraudsters or thieves.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it or promote it.
1. Re:makes me sad by EdwardFurlong · 2014-11-21 02:29 · Score: 1
  
  In this instance what do you want the government to do? Walmart has to take some responsibility.
2. Re: makes me sad by luther349 · 2014-11-21 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  best buy would check the computer but yea Walmart would not.
walmart's fault... by jordanjay29 · 2014-11-20 17:38 · Score: 1

It's still easy enough to change the page by Photoshop or editing the HTML code directly, then take a "screenshot" of your newly-modified page.

The real solution will only come when Walmart and other retailers start looking up the prices themselves to verify them, just like they would with print ads (no sane retailer would accept someone's xeroxed version of a store's weekly ad in order to price match, so why would they accept screenshots and printouts of internet websites?).
Uhm... edited HTML? by jordanjay29 · 2014-11-20 17:42 · Score: 1

I can easily create a local HTML page derived from Amazon's website. It'll be hosted in my browser, on my phone, but it'll be 100% fake.
This is why we can't have nice things... by Karmashock · 2014-11-20 18:47 · Score: 1

People have to ruin it. Company tries to do a nice thing and match online prices... and jackasses start creating bullcrap listings.
Neither Amazon nor Ebay really should be listed. Keep it to sites like NewEgg, etc.

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I See this as Walmart's fault... by GrpA · 2014-11-20 19:50 · Score: 3, Insightful

Walmart was not obliged to sell other than by it's own actions... They could have challenged it or otherwise...
It's actions were made on the intent of beating it's competitors and this backfired... Only consumers really need to be protected from their own stupidity and ignorance - Corporations are big enough to make their own miscalculations and live with the consequences.
caveat venditor would be more appropriate -
GrpA

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Re:Already fixed by DiamondGeezer · 2014-11-20 22:22 · Score: 1

A simple fix (why am I helping Walmart? Because fraud is fraud) is to present the evidence to a customer information point, where they will check whether the price given is actually offered by Amazon and give a voucher with a code of some kind which can be used at checkout.
Result: Fraud stopped in its tracks.

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Re:Amazon doens't charge the same price to everybo by LordKronos · 2014-11-21 00:40 · Score: 1

Wrong. Amazon DOES charge the same price for everybody. They did experiment with different prices for different customers a few years back, but they got some bad media attention over it and discontinued it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...
Re:Already fixed by Jason+Levine · 2014-11-21 02:21 · Score: 1

Target does something like this. If you want to price match against Amazon, you take the item to the customer service desk, not the register. There, they look at the Amazon page, approve the price matching, and you buy the item right there at the matched price.
This way, you only need to train the customer service desk folks, not everyone who works a register.

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My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Actually, this is just bad training. by PortHaven · 2014-11-21 03:00 · Score: 1

Best Buy price matches Amazon.com, just like Walmart.
But the policy is to price match items sold from and BY Amazon.com. So stores hosted by Amazon are NOT supposed to be price-matched.
Re:Amazon doens't charge the same price to everybo by JStyle · 2014-11-21 03:18 · Score: 1

They do, however, change their prices rather rapidly. I usually leave things in my wishlist and see the price change regularly. So this can cause confusion if a retailer wants to verify the price.
Slightly related, I had a keyboard on my wishlist, set at $50, it recently went up to $70-75, and is now on their black friday sales listed as $60 (What a deal!). All within 3-4 weeks.
Not Fraud by CimmerianX · 2014-11-21 03:53 · Score: 1

... and I'll tell you why. Because if I get my LLC to get 1,000 people to each Pony up some money for a PS4, then I use these types of tactics to purchase PS4 from other retailers at a huge discount after having pooled the money from my 1,000 customers (divinding it up so no 1 customer funded 1 whole ps4) , then I provide each customer with a PS4, and then I run to the bank yelling yippee at all the money I just earned...well if anyone calls fraud, I might just get a bailout from the government to keep my LLC in place since I serve such a good purpose in providing access to cheap PS4s. Then the LLC can get a fine of 10% of 1 year's profits as I laugh from my sailboat.
anyone by thinsoldier · 2014-11-21 07:18 · Score: 1

any Amazon member with a registered selling account can create authentic looking pages and list items 'for sale' online.
Consumers need only take a screen capture of the page and show it to a cashier at checkout in order to request the price match."
If a print out is all that's needed then anyone with knowledge of ctrl + shift + i or photoshop or paint or using a photo copier can do this easily.
Petition by NewYork · 2014-11-23 02:17 · Score: 1

http://wh.gov/iCfVS

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Walmart is evil by soundguy4film · 2014-11-23 03:47 · Score: 1

Anyone defending WalMart is a douche. They are the biggest crooks in the country. They deserve to get ripped off they are stealing from America by paying their employees so little that they still need public benefits. Good for people outsmarting Wal Mart it's time they actually lose some money.