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Ask Slashdot: What's the Most Hackable Car?
An anonymous reader writes: When looking for a new (or used) car, I have readily available information regarding features, maintenance history, and potential issues for that specific model or generation. What I would really like is a car that is readily hackable on the convenience-feature level. For example, if I want to install a remote starter, or hack the power windows so holding 'up' automatically rolls it up, or install a readout on the rear of the car showing engine RPMs, what make/model/year is the best pick? Have any of you done something similar with your vehicle? Have you found certain models to be ideal or terrible for feature hacking?
The Mitsubishi Evo and Subaru WRX probably have the most hacked ECUs around. Loading something like ECUTek onto a BRZ or FR-S gives you equal control. Convenience systems are usually controlled with some kind of aftermarket device, though for Toyotas, you can download Techstream and control a few options via a cheap cable off ebay. A Tesla offers the most toys to play with out of the box, but you can't do a think with the actual drive system. An M-series BMW like an old M5 will give you loads of settings to play with between the engine, transmission, and suspension.
...turn that damned chime off. Why can't I leave my keys in the ignition and the drivers door open at the same time??? Yeah, I know, blah blah blah, people forgetting their keys blah blah blah, but at least give me the option of turning it off without having to start pulling fuses.
Modern cars use proprietary designs and even smallest modification would require you to re-flash software. While it is possible, and there are 'dealer' keys out there, modern cars are overly complex.
Your best bet is to get something classic and not too rare.
There are a lot of cars out there that don't take well to remote starters, due to the electrical systems that are found in most cars now. Even if you fancy yourself an electronics god, you'll find that there are some cars where people have basically thrown their hands up in the air and given up on trying to install starters.
Generally, the newer the car is, and the more sophisticated the manufacturer-installed electronics care, the harder it will be to hack it. If you want something that won't leave you bashing your head against the wall in frustration you might not want to look at anything from the past decade or two. Some cars are so resistant to hacking that you'll find the "cool upgrade" you wanted to try has left you with a car that you can't even start any more.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I'm not sure why you'd want to display the RPM to anyone but the driver, that should be very simple to pull off. The windows SHOULD already work the way you describe, as for the remote starter, those are VERY common now a days and you can get off the shelf parts to in stall one in a few hours.
The bug circa 1960's was the best one out there... Everything since is crap from a hacking perspective...
Mercedes are the best.
1953 chevy sedan.
big enough to add any hardware
you want to do anything you want
Not necessarily. I've no idea about remote starters; the window deal could probably be accomplished with basic electronics, though sounds like a pain. But you can get RPM readouts and many other stats through the ODB II interface required for all normal cars in the U.S. since 1996. There are bluetooth and USB adapters available; I imagine you could probably put together a project with an Arduino that would display RPM readout on whatever display device you want. It's probably already been done.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
"or hack the power windows so holding 'up' automatically rolls it up, "
-- Windows already do this when you hold the up button. If you mean you press it once and it rolls up automatically, this is a really bad idea. Kids and animals do stupid things and if you have a mechanism that will continue to go up while their heads and necks are sticking out the window, you have a recipe for disaster.
-- MyLongNickname
"hack the power windows so holding 'up' automatically rolls it up,"
Poor form, but here are some examples.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
All new cars have something called OBD2 and it is a connector down under the driver's side dash. There are plenty of brands/models of bluetooth and wifi dongles you can get to plug in to it ($20 and up)and a matching array of iOS and Android apps that will read all the engine stats off the dongle onto pretty dials on your phone or tablet.
Back in the day, when I had time for such things, for me 'hackability' meant lots of additional useful instrumentation. For example, in my 1988 Nissan Hardbody Pickup I had additional gauges for things like -
- Oil pressure
- Rich / lean fuel mixture (via O2 sensor)
- Vacuum
- Coolant temperature
- Oil temperature
- Volts
- Amps
- Fuel pressure
If I wanted to wind down the windows I just turned the conveniently located crank-handle.
You need to find a car that has a strong community of people who like to make these kinds of changes. I have a Prius (actually 2). There is a ton of information on the car. For example, someone posted instructions for ordering parts and wiring in accessories that allow you to unlock the car by touch from the passenger door handle and the rear hatch. That feature was only offered by Toyota on the top models in 2011.
PriusChat is my favorite place for researching maintaining and enhancing my 2 Priuses. Good luck and have fun!
Seriously, if you want a car that's fun to hack go as old as you can find that still looks nice, runs smooth, and has 100k miles (to reduce the odds that poor maintenance habits have caught up with the motor). Avoid any car with theft provention since that will totally block the remote starter unless you get the factory-approved option.
Which brings me to the next point: If you want convenience you won't get it by spending days hacking your car... You will get it by buying a convenient car. There are so many low and mid model cars that offer complete convenience packages, so just buy it if you want it. Unless you are already an experienced automotive engineer you just won't be able to come out ahead by doing it yourself. Then, to get your geek on buy a OBD-2 to Bluetooth adapter, and a nice app (like Torque) for your smartphone.
Personally I'd be happy to hack my car's windows in the opposite direction. On the driver side only, if you tap "up", it rolls up all the way--you have to hold it down for it to not do that. Which means if you want to adjust it a quarter of an inch, you have to go down and then up, or up too far and then back down.
Most of the BMWs from the 90's onward are fairly hackable. You can find copies of the dealer software and production line tools on the web, and tools like NavCoder and similar allow you to control tons of the "convenience" features. Most of the modules have had their options decoded by interested individuals wanting to customize their vehicles.
Some info here.
For ease of use I would recommend something newer than 2008. Any older than that and some of the communication is going to be going over different types of networks like LIN, J1850 etc.. The other decision you'll have to make is are you modifying existing modules on the car to activate these additional features or are you adding a plugin that's just going to send the can messages to continue rolling up the window... A lot of the newer cars already have features like one press to roll the window up. It might be easier to buy a vehicle that already has the feature and the included safety sensors. I usually prefer Chrysler/Ford vehicles for ease of modification.
Or more to the point, how good are your skills?
Displaying sensor values (rpm, speed, etc.) on any kind of display is relatively simple, because you can just plug into the OBDII connector that is under the dash. There are lots of different adapters for this purpose.
But the other things are impossible- it's all proprietary. If you get a car that uses a CAN bus for its communications, then you MIGHT be able to use a CAN bus adapter and see what's going on in the bus when you hit the window switch, for example... then you could duplicate whatever you see and have the window go down. But this is EXTREMELY dangerous unless you REALLY know what you're doing... you don't want the transmission to suddenly shift into two gears at once when you're going 75mph on the freeway and hit the window switch.
A good example of a rather hackable CAN bus is in the Chrysler large RWD cars from about 2006-2010. (Charger, Challenger, 300, Magnum) You can buy aftermarket accessories that, for example, alter the transmission shift patterns, or let you shift via steering wheel radio controls. They do this via the CAN bus.
Air-cooled VW Beetle
Spend some time on Bimmerfest.com there are a ton of BMW enthusiasts and there are all sorts of ways you can hack into the cars' various electronic systems and change things. For example, mirrors fold in automatically when you lock the doors. Windows roll up and moon roof closes at push of a remote button, turning on cameras, feeding video to your GPS or HUD display (from your cameras or another sources), change the cluster display's colors, info, etc., and lots of other things. Mine already has a digital display (called the "sports" display) that shows most of what you're talking about. You can also put the vehicle in different modes (Eco, comfort +, comfort, sports, sports +, and M) that changes both the feel of the vehicle and the displays. For example, sport mode changes the HUD and cluster displays to digital readouts, in comfort and below they are analog displays (digital but the images are of a needle speedometer and tachometer, etc.). Of all the cards I've had this one is the funnest and most hackable.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Everything that could be done to that car has been. You can even turn it into a dune buggy.
You can set many convenience features (and some drivetrain-related ones too, I believe) in VW-family cars. You buy a dongle and software (runs $200 and up) called VCDS (used to be VAG-COM) and connect the car to a PC or smartphone, and go to town. For example, if your car doesn't already have it, you can install a rain-light sensor, and then tell the car to roll up windows and the sunroof when it rains.
You need to get VAG-COM from Ross-Tech. A little pricey but it does an incredible job of letting you configure the car.
VOLVO with thick rubber window rims and it should do for what your intentions are.
Remember to get the high performance model, not the crappy one!
Oh, you didn't mean "drop in a new tranny when you said 'hack'??" Damned lazy kids.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
Totally open platform, well documented, simple wiring and so common that replacement parts are easy to find. Also acceptable, Malibu, Monte Carlo, etc. Get the 350/3speed auto version. I recommend Olds because most them have power windows, 4 speaker radios and other 'luxury' items.
In 1978 the emissions regs kicked in and things started to get weird.
Hacking a modern car is not for the hobbyist, the nanny state and sensor system are complex proprietary, closed systems.
Mitsubishi has the most hacked ECU around.
It runs the "M32R" instruction set and the assembler can be dumped by running the ROM image through gcc.
People are hex editing the ROM images and adding new functionality to the ECU such as having it flash the check engine light when the engine detects knock.
Theres routines to change rev limits, boost targets, ignition timing, fuel maps, wastegate duty cycle maps, and even No-Lift-To-Shift modes were hacked in that cut ignition when the clutch is pressed so the right foot can remain floored across many shifts.
We can datalog and tune the ECU while it's running. The software is free and the cable is $120. It can also log without a computer since the cable has an SD card and an ADC built in to convert raw voltage to things like AFR from a wideband.
I can edit the assembler of my ROM in my car. No one else is doing that.
The real one, not the POS designed in the late 90's, you can do anything like rebuild your engine from scratch with DIY fuel injection and what not.
Get a Mercedes. Literally *everything* you could want is available on the CANBUS. This includes control of remote start functions, windows, doors, all buttons, all data from engine, climate control, radio etc. Once you are on the bus you have control of the entire vehicle.
Most modern cars will provide interesting diagnostic data via the ODB2 interface. Something like this would be a good first project: http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=95037.0
It's just a fucking car. Who gives as hit? You get in and go from one place to another.
Since cars have little security and minimal documentation, being the most hackable is simply the result of having a large enough group of people reverse engineering it.
The Nissan 350Z/370Z, Mitsubishi EVO/Lancer/Eclipse, and Subaru WRX/BRZ/Impreza are the standouts as far as being affordable for a hobby endeavour. Mercedes vehicles are also fairly well-explored.
Related models such as the Infiniti G/Q series (premium 350Z/370Z) inherit most of the same benefits from their mainstream brethren, and pretty much all Subaru cars have a decent aftermarket parts and mod community.
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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Why is this on /.?
Learn a little bit about cars and you'll find they were always hackable (modable), and are becoming more closed with digital information, rather than wiring and pulse information . . .
Start by going to a CAR FORUM and asking about Modding. Don't use the correct but pretentious word "hack".
Move to car alarm forums/car stereo forums.
There's a few 4 cylinder ecotecs running nearly 1000 HP.
So far, I have (previously having no experience doing work on cars): :) )
Installed Pioneer head unit w/ DVD player + ebrake bypass (no I do not watch DVDs while driving, it's just easier to bypass than connect the ebrake
Replaced speakers with SEAS Lotus
Replaced battery with an optima yellowtop for the soundsystem (stock 90A alternator works great though)
Installed subwoofer in custom enclosure (easy to find custom fiberglass for these cars)
Installed remote starter
Disabled the blasted beeping when a passenger doesn't put on their seatbelt
I'm sure you could do a lot more with one of these, but that's just what I've been able to do in a year or two of playing around with it. I am no longer at all intimidated by opening my car up and doing work on it, if you can put together a PC and do legos, you can work on a Subaru.
I have a Prius (actually 2).!
You forgot to post anonymously!
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
JEEPS are built, not bought.
No, I am not talking about the latest contraptions but older Jeeps...CJs
Mod parent down for ignorence.
The Jeep CJ/Wrangler has amazing aftermarket support. You can build a CJ from aftermarket parts with no real problem. The old Cherokee is in the same level of support. The old First Gen 1960s Camaro and the Corvette line is the same way. You can build a 64-68 Stingray from parts you order online if you want to.
For a modern car Subarus, Jeeps, and so one are high on the list.
What kind of car do you want? A people mover, Jeep, or a sporty car? US or japanese? Are you in the States?
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I have a 1990 Ford that I've done so many mods to in that example....but it's not alone, so i'd say the most is anything you're not making payments on and is out of warranty.
With all the past lawsuits over sudden accelerations and other safety issues blamed (correctly or incorrectly) on software bugs, why would any automobile manufacturer in their right minds allow the customer to flash their own firmware? Seems to me that this is something to which any manufacturer who wants to stay in business (and out of jail) would be violently opposed.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
a readout on the rear of the car showing engine RPMs
Combine this with a fart can exhaust and driving around in 2nd gear you can sound Too Fast Too Furious and people can see by your LED scrolling display changing from green to red when you approach the 4000 redline on your mother's civic.
Local Motors, I guess.
---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
Current Mazdas use OpenCar for their infotainment system. Wireless is enabled by default and the root password is out there on the Internet.
Project cars are wonderful. Depending on how far you want to go just having most of the pieces initially is enough even if they are in rough shape. With the right project car there can be a very large community and market so tinkering and getting what you want or need is easy. I have a MG midget that I am in the process of restoring and basically you can get every part ever made for them so part availability is a non issue. Add in the large number of vehicles with A-Series engines that weren't really developed much during their production and a healthy racing series for little British cars and you find that there are lots to hacks and improvements that can be made. Personally I am going for a lightened, better handling, supercharged, alcohol burner for mine.
Time to offend someone
Just ask that reporter.
so that they stay operating, period! I hate being a passenger in modern cars.
If we are talking about both, I'd vote for one of my vehicles, a 2003 Dodge Ram 1500 with the HEMI engine. I bought it for $7500 (in 2012), spent $200 on a cold air intake, $600 on a magnaflow exhaust (got a deal), and $300 on a perofrmance tuner for it ( allows adjusted ECU, shift points, rev limiter, top speed governor, etc). It was quick before, but now the thing HAULS ASS. I never Dyno'd it but I'd guess I'm making an extra 40-50 HP from the combined effect of those changes and runs a high 14 sec 1/4 mile now, which is friggin fast for a full size truck that weighs over 5000 pounds. For reference that is about as fast as a 90's era Mustang GT, or corvette. And because it's a cheap truck I beat on it, haul dirt/wood/concrete/whatever, and pretty much do whatever i want to it as far as interior/stereo etc. It's fun to have a vehicle that large, and that performant that I can modify however I want. Gas mileage sucks (around 11 MPG), but otherwise I love it.
Here are similar trucks at the drag strip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
As others have said, Subarus and Hondas are fairly easy to hack if you want to change existing ECU's.
But if you want a car the way you want it, and are going to do more work, look for older cars.
I have a 1975 Triumph Spitfire. I added electronic ignition, replaced the mechanical speedometer and tachometer with electronic ones, and am working on a custom fuel injection setup. If I want to put seat heaters in the car, removal of the seat pan doesn't take any bolts at all. It takes four screws to pull the door apart.
The problem, of course, is that I have to do ALL the work myself. There isn't anyone else doing stuff like this, so every project is brand new.
But there are precisely zero software or firmware barriers to doing anything I want, and the only hardware barriers are my skill limitations.
It's an easy way to sink 3000 hours into a car only worth $2000USD, though, and at the end you still have an old car with very dubious reliability.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
Anything with full-blown CAN-bus. The bus itself has no security at all so you can attach your own programmable device to it and order any device on the bus to do whatever you want.
That's more hacking options than most people even want.
Learning curve is quite steep but the skills apply to any car with same devices, not just one car or model.
VW/Audi group cars can all be easily hacked via a Vag-com http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-c... device which is a relatively cheap hardware/software alternative to the programmer used at the factor or at a dealership. There are great community sites. for instance: http://www.audizine.com/forum/...
One simple hack I performed for instance was to enable bluetooth hud. Default from the factory the contact list from my phone would not be displayed one the radio or on the instrument heads up display. One simple code change displays my contact list, last calls received, and last calls made. The only negatives to the vag-com are that engine performance and emissions are locked out. Which means you can't disable the ~130MPH governor for instance.
There is or can be built a machine that can simulate any physical object. -Church-Turing principle
Check out the CANBus Triple: https://www.kickstarter.com/pr... They have huge adoption in the Mazda community
Check out the CANBus Triple: https://www.kickstarter.com/pr... They have huge adoption in the Mazda community
The most hackable and probably the most hacked.
I think of hacking as almost anything to alter almost anything about the car, but it sounds like you're thinking mostly interfacing with the electronics to get there. I can't answer who's best, but I know for sure that some manufacturers make accessing and interpreting CAN bus information a lot easier than others. Search for CAN bus interface info for various makes in which you're interested and see how much is out there and how difficult it looks. When I find time (yeah right) I want to grab events from pushing steering wheel buttons and use it to control my own devices. So I'm not really looking to put messages on the CAN bus, just read from it. In general, models that have cult followings (not just "ricers") will have a lot more info out there that their owners have accumulated and shared. MINIs are not among the easiest cars to interface with (as with other BMWs), but there's a lot of info out there because of the interest among owners. On the other hand, something like a Camry, popular as they are, is unlikely to have been explored as much because they're appliances that people buy to reliably get them where they want to go and not for providing fun or making a statement.
If we're talking about the kind of hacks you'd normaly think of when thinking of cars that would probably be some 2-3 decade old ex-soviet military car. In a pinch you can repair those with a paperclip. Some of them also have awesome features. I've heard of a transporter that can deflate and inflate its tires... while driving! They used that feature to adjust the tires to the ground the transporter would pass over. More traction in snow and sand and stuff like that.
An old us-army jeep probably is pretty hackable aswell. As goes for dune-buggies and other kit-cars.
As for hackable electronics in cars - I'd rather add those myself.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Land Rovers are like Meccano for grown men.
Chassis come in 90,110,127 inchs. Engines in V8 Petrol, TDI, Drive/Transmission in 4x4, 6x6 and even tracked varients.
Bodies include Utility, Pickup, Van, Station Wagon, Double Cab, Hicap, Light Weights and Forward Control, Trybacks.
Special Vehicle varients as Ambulances, Fire Tenders and Pumps, Armoured, Recovery Truck, Fire Tenders, amphibious and breaching vehicles to name a few.
Build your own with lego or 3d printing, let it run on somekind of linux distro then proceed with a camera for live stream and put the controls online for other people to drive you around
Get a carbuerated pickup. You can hack everything in it.
In a Soviet Lada, you will be hacked!
With a Tabby
Get yours today!... Er, tomorrow... Would you believe...
Okay, okay, already. Apologies in advance for the snark. This really is a cool project.. And one worth watching. I do think the name is poorly positioned, however. Hey! What about Carduino? No? Anything but Tabby. I got it.. I got it... The Stallman! Hmmm. On second thought not for a car. I'll keep thinking.
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
Must it be a car? How about a motorcycle? HUGE modding community; Long history. Also, helmets like the Skully AR-1.
I use a Cobb Tuning AccessPort to flash my ECU way too often.
You have full control over timing, air fuel mixtures, RPM limits, you can also disable specific engine trouble codes if wanted.
Their "stuff" works with Subaru, Ford, some Mazda and the Nissan GTR.
BMW's are very hackable - there's hundreds of little settings that can be coded in nearly every module of the car, there's 3rd party ECU firmware available as well to boost power, especially on the turbo models.
I once worked for a place that restored a Sprite (the later version rebadged midget). Positive ground! Evil!
We put on the cutest little headers too.
Oracle and unix guy.
The BMW E46 (3 series between 1999 and 2005) and other BMWs from that era all use an in-vehicle network called "I-Bus" which operates things like the windows, the sound system, the lights, and more. Most non-critical vehicle functions are exposed there and are fairly well documented by the community. You only need an inexpensive adapter that looks like a serial port as far as the computer's concerned to access it.
IIRC the first generation or two of Mini as well as a few Land Rovers of the time that used BMW engines also have I-Bus.
Newer models have an optical system called MOST running the infotainment system, I'm not sure where the windows and lights are connected in these days.
I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
My Toyota is tied to whether the car is in Park, rather than whether the engine is running. I suspect that is what you need to successfully get an aftermarket remote starter working properly. As for hacking, turning off the various chimes is possible in most Toyotas using a CAN capable ODBII connector and Techstream software which you can freely download from Toyota. Various other comfort features can be adjusted, depending on the car, and youbcan get a lot of realtime data from the various ECUs like engine RPMs and outside temperature from the engine ECU and cabin temperature from the climate ECU along with more obscure sensor information.
Am I the only one tired of the overuse of the verb "to hack" everywhere? Everything is being hacked all over the place, it has totally lost its long-term association with computers.
The downfall probably started when "to hack" started being used to mean "to crack"... and then the Matrix movies...
My car (Holden Astra Olympic Edition, manual hatch, ie October 1999 build Opel Astra TS3 CD) has power windows that, on all doors, if you hold up/down for ½ second, it goes all the way up/down when you remove your finger. The driver can control this from their 4 window control on the armrest (one of which is for his window).
Adjusting it a few mm at a time is easy, you just tap the button a few times, not hold it.
Oddly, since this is on a 15 year old car, it seems that this basic intuitive functionality is still rare and/or expensive even now!?
here is a Torque companion tool that may be interesting
http://torqueloganalyzer.blogspot.it/
Both the Ford Mustang and the Chevrolet (for the past 15 years or so) feature fully programmable ECU's through the OBD II port. You can remove the speed limiter, remap the A/F ratio, chane the shift points and do pretty much anything else you'd want to do
I was driving home one night when my car became hacked. It was a physical/social hack. A man approached me and shoved a gun in my face at a stop light, he was able to take full control of the vehicle and my wallet within 15 seconds. The zero day exploit has yet to be patched and the uber 1337 haxor pwned me.
Better: Any VW made car. VAG COM is an amazing tool if you know what you're doing. I'm jealous of what all some of the guys can make happen with it. (And of course, you can completely screw up the car by not knowing what you're doing with it.)
Worse: Jeep or any other Chrysler product. My understanding is that 97-02 Wranglers (and presumably Cherokees) have a non hackable ECU, which prevents most decent power mods from working with their engines. My understanding is that the 2011 model Wrangler has the same issue. Why its only one model year, I don't know. I'd love to add some oomph to my '98 Wrangler, but with an ECU that is so cranky about anything (and STILL can't tell me if I have a bad O2 sensor), I see no need in trying. Almost all turbocharger and supercharger kits don't work with the first few model years of the TJ Wranglers. And don't get me started on how awesome the data bus is in these model years. How about a gauge cluster that just loses its mind because Chrysler decided to cheap out on the connectors on the back?! That being said, I do love my '98 and '10 Wranglers. My '10 has a few decent options for displaying data if I wanted it to. My understanding is that due to the ECU, my '98 (and the one I WANT all the feedback I can get from), is useless for hacking. There was a guy on Jeep Forum that got a JK (2007-current) Wrangler to do some custom messages and whatnot on his display.
The most hackable car is obviously the Adobe. You can hack it into damn near anything.
The slashdot audience seems to be only interested in cars that reduce your ability to control the vehicle at all. Leave it up to these guys, it will be illegal to drive your car, much less modify it. They dream of a life of having no vehicular control and only get transported in predetermined routes. You are better off posing your questions to people that actually care about cars, than to a large nerd base that dribbles pee down their legs at the thought freedom.
If by hackable you mean you want other people to be able to hack into your Bluetooth head unit and get drive-by-wire functionality to take over your car... it was recently stated that the 2014 Jeep Cherokee is the most hackable car around: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/08/04/2343226/least-secure-cars-revealed-at-black-hat