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Peru Indignant After Greenpeace Damages Ancient Nazca Site
HughPickens.com writes The NYT reports that Peruvian authorities say Greenpeace activists have damaged the fragile, and restricted, landscape near the Nazca lines, ancient man-made designs etched in the Peruvian desert when they placed a large sign that promoted renewable energy near a set of lines that form the shape of a giant hummingbird. The sign was meant to draw the attention of world leaders, reporters and others who were in Lima, the Peruvian capital, for a United Nations summit meeting aimed at reaching an agreement to address climate change. Greenpeace issued a statement apologizing for the stunt at the archaeological site and its international executive director, Kumi Naidoo, flew to Lima to apologize for scarring one of Peru's most treasured national symbols. "We are not ready to accept apologies from anybody," says Luis Jaime Castillo, the vice minister for cultural heritage. "Let them apologize after they repair the damage."
"But repair may not be possible. The desert around the lines is made up of white sand capped by a darker rocky layer. By walking through the desert the interlopers disturbed the upper layer, exposing the lighter sand below. Visits to the site are closely supervised — ministers and presidents have to seek special permission and special footwear to tread on the fragile ground where the 1,500 year old lines are cut. "A bad step, a heavy step, what it does is that it marks the ground forever," says Castillo. "There is no known technique to restore it the way it was." Castillo says that the group walked in single file through the desert, meaning that they made a deep track in the ground then they spread out in the area where they laid the letters, making many more marks over a wide area. "The hummingbird was in a pristine area, untouched,". Castillo added. "Perhaps it was the best figure."
Looks like them favoring will do anything to make their issue known ... everything, including ruining thousands-year-old world heritage site
We need a PETA vs Greenpeace death-by-irony cage fight.
"It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds." -Doc Holliday
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Turning off people who might otherwise agree with them. Instead, they just generate hatred.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The Aliens will never find out where to land now
Greenpeace has been, for quite some time now, nothing but a group lobbying for its self-interest, no matter its impact on the rest of us. I.e. they have become as despicable as the oil industry.
Perhaps them walking wouldn't have caused so much damage if they had reduced *their* carbon footprint by not stuffing their face with more than their fair share of food on the planet.
Silly sods. Greenpeace's whole ethos is to take the moral high ground against destructive activities of government and big business.
Well, their careless actions here have fucked that up big time. Once you throw away the "moral high ground", good luck getting it back.
So, here we have a nice example of something like Jon Stewart's "one mistake"... with all the willful environmental destruction in the world, this story of one admitted dreadful mistake by people who actually care deeply (for which the Greenpeace response -- as strong an apology as possible, while accepting that mere apology is insufficient -- is missing from the summary) becomes the story.... sad.
Yes, that's overly simplistic.
The Nazca lines are human made, as we all know Greenpeace doesn't care about humans. They only care about the "environment", even though they often oppose things that would in fact help protect the environment.
"near the Nazca lines, ancient man-made designs" ... interesting how they go out of their way to let you know these "designs" are "man-made" ... just like if you were referring to Mount Rushmore you would naturally write something like "Today activists staged a protest at Mount Rushmore, a relatively recent man-made sculpture"
They could have achieved the same thing with Photoshop.
Have gnu, will travel.
Or they could just kill themselves and everyone to save the planet.
Carbon emission wouldn't be an issue if the whole human population is reduced by 90%.
Are you upset? You seem upset.
"Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
You are a bigot; you think in terms of environmental damage without even considering the people who were insulted by Greenepeace's callousness. This has nothing to do with ecological impact, it has everything to do with irreparably damaging a world heritage site and something that is extremely important to Peruvian and South American culture. They didn't cause environmental damage, but they basically insulted an entire nation by being careless and thoughtless about their culture to make a message that would result in nothing.
Then their initial response was essentially a backhanded slap to the Peruvian people. From the Greenpeace Facebook page:
"Without reservation, Greenpeace apologises to the people of Peru for the offense caused by our recent activity laying a message of hope at the site of the historic Nazca Lines.
We are deeply sorry for this."
Which basically says "we're sorry people got offended by our message of hope." It should be reading "we're sorry we irreparably damaged this site and trod on your culture", so once again, callousness and carlessness.
Greenpeace is not a good organization. It's a bunch of people who make a lot of noise and act like thugs and morons, and often their positions are not supported by science or thoughtful discourse.
Its all the fault of the young, eh? You seem angry
Because it's darker sand on top of lighter sand.
Heavy footprints change the colour of the ground.
Rake would do more damage.
Go to a sand trap in a golf course. Sprinkle a thin layer of black dust over the sand, but thick enough so that you cannot see the sand beneath. Walk through that area of black dust over whitish sand.
Now use a rake to remove the footprints.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
While I agree that this is an opportunity for politicians to discredit Greenpeace.. its not an issue of ENVIRONMENTAL damage.. its an issue of preserving National and World Heritage. The government of Peru is not worried about plants and animals in this case.. it is worried about keeping these ancient grounds for future generations.
What they did is the equivalent of pissing on the Mona Lisa.
I'm more disappointed than I am upset. The Millennials could have been a truly great generation. Yet they've squandered this opportunity in every way. People who could have done amazing things have instead sunk to new lows, dragging everyone and everything else with them. The loss of what could have been is something to be disappointed about.
for the life of me, i don't understand why the author of this post would feel the need to remain anonymous.
it is logical, thoughtful, and sensitive...have things gotten so bad here on /. that people feel the need to hide any non-liberal commenting in the clock of an AC?
never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
Maybe in 1000 years that will be the only which remains as a sign of human civilization. That, and the pyramids.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
The correct response is simple, declare them terrorists, cut off there funding etc etc.
No sir I dont like it.
Then please tell us how a rake would not work.
The surface consists of a hardened layer that has been darkened by weathering process'. The subsurface is a much lighter layer of sand that blows away easily, and is a different color from the hardened surface. Once damage has been inflicted on the surface, the sand beneath can blow away (and does with each storm) causing the damaged areas to spread over time. The only way to prevent this is not to cause the damage in the first place.
It should be noted that there is no wildlife in those areas of sufficient size to damage the surface, It is only through human intervention that damage can occur. If Greenpeace values its reputation, they will expel every idiot involved in this debacle and tell them don't come back.
I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
Please explain to me how a rake is going to discriminate between the lighter colored sand the normally lays under the surface and the thin, dark layer that is on top so it can separate them and redistribute them back in layers to cover the damage? Sand trap rakes are used to remove the impressions in the surface of a sand trap that is basically uniform in color, which is NOT the problem caused by the Greenpeace foray into Nazca which disturbed the upper layer exposing the lighter layer underneath...which is pretty much how the lines themselves were created. Given that the lines have not been obscured by natural forces for approximately 1,500 years we can assume that evidence of Greenpeace's ignorance will last at least as long. Like Greenpeace you seem to have proposed a action without first understanding the problems it could cause because a rake would simply cause more damage.
In what universe is fixing up crumbling old downtowns and making them livable again an evil thing to do?
And the PC crapola you cite, including the Greenpeace organization and all its Luddite folderol, was a creation of the Boomers.
I'm not the AC you are responding to, but sometimes I'm not on my own computer, and just don't feel like logging in to make a comment. Or maybe the person is just a lurker, and never made an account.
And what do timepieces have to do with it? ;^)
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
so then why haven't the Inca's totally blocked off the area and how did this large GP group get access to just be able to walk over over it?
never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
lol...i think my adoring /. fans would miss my usual "stupid typo" posts if i started fixing them.
never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
I'd say it is more like pissing on the Kaaba Stone in Mecca. It is something that defines a group of people, part of their heritage. Not simply some picture that one guy painted.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
http://www.facebook.com/AsociacionMariaReiche/photos/a.352196254900127.1073741825.341434422642977/678386932281056/
That anythink you're complaining about the Millenials fucking up is directly the responsibility of the Boomers since they didn't not only didn't have time to raise us, but let us be told we couldn't be responsible nor self sufficient until we were adults. So you got a whole generation of children acting like children well into adulthood because you bunch of codgers fucked us all up because you couldn't be bothered to teach us, or avoid coddling us, or even properly learn from your parents (our grandparents, or in some cases great grandparents) examples and improve on what they did.
As a result you've got a whole generation of fuckups fighting against a previous generation of fuckups and pretty much having a fuckup circlejerk all around. Especially now that all the Great War survivors are losing out to Father Time's belt. You know, the age old parenting tool, until you Boomer fuckups decided we shouldn't use it anymore!
Now get off my lawn you smelly old bastards before I beat your ass with your own walk^H^H^H^Hsegway (Walkers are so gramma-y, gotta get with the times after all!)
It would take a damn good rake to manipulate every grain of sand that was disturbed so that they were reoriented the exact way they were gently eroded over centuries so that they resembled adjacent, undisturbed grains even remotely close enough. Also, even if that could be done, does it really matter anymore? Might as well just get a sewing machine out to fix the Shroud of Turin you wore like a cape and ripped a corner getting it caught in your bike chain. ...yeah that was the best analogy I could think of without interrupting my stream-of-typing consciousness, screw it.
http://www.latinamericanstudie...
I was hoping that the authorities were exaggerating, but looking at the pic on this page one can see that they aren't :-(
Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
Well, "the Inca's" don't exist anymore. They were a group that ruled the area in the past.
As to why Peru hasn't "totally blocked off the area", it would take thousands of troops to surround the area, just to prevent the one group of morons in several decades who thought trampling world historic sites for political messages sounded like a good idea.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
Same goddamned thing that's "wrong" with every other generation ever. Greed, selfishness, etc. The difference in outcomes stems from things like cheap air travel, which makes it possible for local idiots to literally go global. I bet these Greenpeace activist could have never afforded to fly to Peru in say 1964.
Of course, the boomers and their Soviet counterparts came pretty close to inadvertently wiping out civilization during Able Archer, which no other generation has managed to repeat since then.
I hate to break the news to you, but these so-called "Millenials" you keep ranting about do not exist. And if they existed, theyd' all be 14 years old.
More generally speaking, not all people from one generation are the same, and the elderly have been complaining about youngsters even before Seneca wrote about it.
Take it easy, my friend, and perhaps get a bit more sleep. (Lack of sleep is one of the primary causes of grumpiness.)
Why cant people be anonymous?, we are on a place where people can choose to be or not be signed in, if you do want just sensible posts of people that logged in choose another forum for that. There is a lot of eliteness bullshit with the people of this site, where people just down vote anonymous posts because they regard themselves in higher standard when they in fact pack more bull shit than the anonymous users
Green peace, Peta, and other "Groups" like them stopped being about the "issues" a long time ago and have since turned into ego trips for its members. It seems like a game for them to pull off the biggest stunt. Do they seriously think world leaders are "unaware" of renewable energy? Seriously?
That message wasn't for world leaders, it was a dick measuring contest with other activists.
A long time ago I might have supported organizations like Greenpeace and PETA on general principles, but the membership of both organizations have grown so outrageously batshit insane and arrogant that I feel differently now.
I feel like roasting a live cat over a pile of burning coal, frankly.
Way to win hearts and minds, idiots!
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!
not to be over simplistic or even the least bit forgiving against GP and this ridiculously stupid stunt, but perhaps they should look into a device called a "rake".'
it does wonders in sand traps for removing footprints...a different beast to be sure but come on..."no known technique"? :)
While you probably can't just fix it with a rake, I find it hard to believe that it's impossible to restore it at all. Get some engineers out there -- at Greenpeace's expense -- and have them figure out a way to put dark rocks on top of light sand.
It's kind of like those boy scout leaders that knocked over the rock formation at Goblin Valley. People were calling for them to spend the rest of their lives in jail over it. We've been putting rocks on top of other rocks for thousands of years -- the better solution would have been to have them pay to get a construction crew out there to fix it.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Globally speaking, a good portion of "The Greatest Generation" were fucking Nazis. Another decent sized chunk were Marxist, another chunk Fascist, and yet another chunk, Japanese Imperialists.
But yea, it makes total sense to whine that today's generation is somehow worse, morally speaking, than the assholes who started the last world war.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
good point about the Inca's not being around anymore...of course I meant their ancestors.
Presumably if the Incas aren't around anymore, their ancestors aren't either...
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
bent on keeping the world in a Stone Age sort of existence. And then they blew up those ancient Buddha statues. The Taliban, that is.
Pretty much felt the same way about Greenpeace, and now they've defiled the Nazca lines. I'm for the same treatment for them that we gave the Taliban.
Did you get just as upset when the Taliban and ISIS blow up archeological sites as well?
I'm curious to see how far your anger reaches.
You're not really defending blatant douche-baggery based on the notion that other people have been douche-bags in the past, are you?
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I've read that earlier comment several times now.
I don't see the words "Greatest Generation" appearing in there anywhere.
I don't see that commenter holding them up as an example of a good generation.
So why the fuck did you bring them up?
Pointing out that Generation Y is made up of a bunch of shitbags doesn't mean that earlier generations were any better.
What we are seeing is a rare opportunity
Not really. There have been many opportunites to observe Greenpeace acting like a bunch of self absorbed twits.
Have gnu, will travel.
When there's a dark layer of soil on top of sand it's usually a macrobiotic crust, that has taken a few hundred years to do its thing - that is what they crushed as they walked. There's not much worse you can do as far as lasting ecological damage except for sawing down trees a few hundred years old...
They did also harm the aesthetics of the lines themselves.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
How indignant is Peru when a wind storm comes through?
Not very, because there's practically no wind in the area. Additionally, the coated pebbles protect the ground even during those rare windy days.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
Wait, you're really saying that modern San Francisco today is "livable"?
Yeah, that's maybe true if you're in the 1.6% of people making more than $250,000 a year.
If you're making anything less than $250,000 a year, like most people (including those working in the software industry), living in San Francisco is going to be absolute hell.
You're looking at paying at least $2000 in rent each month. When I say "at least", I'm talking about a single room in a filthy boarding house, assuming you aren't in an illegal "rental suite" somebody built in their garden shed.
Realistically, if you want a small one-bedroom apartment that isn't in somebody's shed and that isn't infested with vermin, you're looking at about $8000 to $9000 a month.
Yeah, you'll be paying over $100,000 per year merely for minimal housing costs. If you want to raise a family, and need more than a single bedroom, you'll be looking at upwards of $200,000 per year. Oh, and don't even think about buying even a run down, broken, tiny house unless you've got $5,000,000 or more to spend.
Food is as expensive as hell there. Clothing is as expensive as hell there. And if you want to fit in with the society there, you're going to need to attend all sorts of "social functions" at expensive and trendy restaurants. That will quickly use up most of the remaining $150,000 you make each year.
Don't forget that to make that money, you'll be stuck in terrible traffic for most of the very early morning, and even late into the night. When everybody has to work 18 hour days just to survive, sometimes at three or more jobs, "rush hour" lasts most of the day.
Modern San Francisco is "livable"? Hardly!
Apples and Oranges. ISIS and the Taliban are all about destruction. It's what they do. Greenpeace, on the other hand, is about preservation and conservation.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Because wind and rain rarely occur there at all, that's why only a few months ago when an extremely rare wind event happened it uncovered geoglyphs previously undiscovered.
Are you upset? You seem upset.
And with good fucking reason.
This is desert. It can take up to 250 years for the crust to regrow in the places where they have stepped. In the meantime, the loose soil below is subject to erosion.
Greenpeace seems to have the notion that the more obnoxious and arrogant you are, the more you can get people to agree with you.
Turning off people who might otherwise agree with them. Instead, they just generate hatred.
They're more like telemarketers. You eventually cave into their demands to make them go the hell away. At least that's the theory behind obnoxious and abusive marketing.
I hate to break the news to you, but these so-called "Millenials" you keep ranting about do not exist. And if they existed, theyd' all be 14 years old.
More generally speaking, not all people from one generation are the same, and the elderly have been complaining about youngsters even before Seneca wrote about it.
Take it easy, my friend, and perhaps get a bit more sleep. (Lack of sleep is one of the primary causes of grumpiness.)
The start of the bracket for the generational definition for Millennials is based on their high-school graduation / college freshman admission year, and thus refers to those born in 1982. Those 14-year-old kids you refer to are the young end of the bracket.
man did everyone here wake up with a hangover this morning?
didn't anyone notice that i was, you know, just trying to be funny AND apply some reasonable logic to this?
how much would you care to wager that in less then a year, the site will be looking exactly like it did before?
because without a doubt, many many people without your "special shoes" have trampled over that site over the past centuries.
what GP did was reprehensible...that is so obvious its beyond question.
my OP just poked fun at the official who claimed "OMG this has never happened before!"
never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
Or they could just kill themselves and everyone to save the planet.
Carbon emission wouldn't be an issue if the whole human population is reduced by 90%.
Actually, it'd still be an issue, since ~26% of the CO2 put into the atmosphere each year comes from the yearly brushfires in Africa.
Plenty of other people are willing to put them up on a pedestal. That's kind of the whole point of the "Greatest Generation" moniker. It's so pervasive that it's just taken for granted. No one has to bring it up.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
for which the Greenpeace response -- as strong an apology as possible, while accepting that mere apology is insufficient -- is missing from the summary
To be entirely fair... the strongest possible apology would be to turn themselves in to the Peruvian authorities, and spend six years in a Peruvian prison, as martyrs to their cause.
If you were trying to be funny, you did a very poor job of it. You're also doing a very poor job of trying to be reasonable - for one, no, "many many people" likely have not trod that ground due to it being a remote, sparsely populated area. Secondly, jamming a signpost in the ground is a bit different than simply walking across an area.
Perhaps you should consider using /sarc tags.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
They've ruined the Internet, too. We can't go a single day now without somebody incorrectly calling somebody else "racist" or "sexist" or "misogynistic". They force censorship wherever they go, because according to them it's completely inappropriate for somebody to potentially read or hear something that might hurt their feelings, even if it's completely factual and correct.
This, a million time this.
I hate to break the news to you, but these so-called "Millenials" you keep ranting about do not exist. And if they existed, theyd' all be 14 years old.
I hate to break it to you but the group called the "Millennials" are not called that because they were born at the beginning of this millennium but because they were born at the end of the last one. Generally that means from early/mid 1980's to 2000.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Millennial
http://www.livescience.com/38061-millennials-generation-y.html
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/millennial+generation
Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
Greenpeace is saying they are about prservation, same as politicians say they do shit "for your protection".
While in fact both are about power and money.
What we are seeing is a rare opportunity for a politician to accuse Greenpeace of overreach.
They've done it before.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Neither fire, the wheel, the printing press or the spork came from the "greatest generation". I don't know what they achieved to deserve that moniker.
But they did not come up with switch rape or yo (the app) either, so when it's all said an done, I'd say that at least they are not the worst generation.
lucm, indeed.
It takes a true imbecile to make that leap.
We are not ready to accept apologies from anybody," says Luis Jaime Castillo, the vice minister for cultural heritage. "Let them apologize after they repair the damage.
First, the damage cannot be repaired. But second, Greenpeace has NOT issued a real apology. Their disgraceful excuse for an apology is here:
http://www.greenpeace.org/inte...
The obvious missing element is an apology for defacing a UNESCO World Heritage Site. Instead, they offer mere apologies for how things LOOK, and the typical "I'm sorry if anyone was offended" not-pology. Peru should throw all of the activists in Prison, and when the Executive Director shows up in Lima, lock him up too.
Meanwhile, as others have pointed out, the image of the message doesn't even look real in the first place, and they could have gotten the exact same image from Photoshop. Here's the worthless Greenpeace image:
http://www.iflscience.com/site...
And here's the damage the fuckers caused:
http://cdn.zmescience.com/wp-c...
Prison sentences for all.
man did everyone here wake up with a hangover this morning?
Sure seems like you did.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
those bush fires are started to clear the jungle/forest and create new farmland. And the reason they do that is... overpopulation. So yes, it wouldn't be an issue if the population is low.
In what universe is fixing up crumbling old downtowns and making them livable again an evil thing to do?
The one where as a result, many of the people who were living there can no longer afford to do so as a result.
Frank Zappa: "Facetiae does not translate to print."
This will probably not make it past moderation, since I refuse to register with Dice. Just like every other comment I have made on Slashdot since Dice bought it.
Anyway, enough of that rant.
It almost sounds like Peru is going to be declaring Greenpeace a terrorist organization - basically, they destroyed something for political gain and influencing others. Personally, ever since they temporarily supported the "Sea Shepherds" (A maritime terrorist group), I have considered Greenpeace to be a corporate sponsor of terrorists. The hypocrisy of that group is pretty jarring. They teach that a short half-life material is less radioactive than a long-half life material. They teach that it's okay to endanger others to further 'goals.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I had a quick look. The subject is mildly interesting but what really disturbed me was that scene at 9:14. Why is there a towel under that woman and her dogs? WHY?
Call me a ludite or an amish, but I'm fucking happy that so far there's no mainstream technology that can provide a smell track with video.
lucm, indeed.
This is very interesting comment. If you would make account here PM me, or contact me at jabber/xmpp JID:rfree@mempo.org or e-mail rfree @ i2pmail dot org.
Every generation is the worst generation. Now if you do not mind me, I have to go patrol my lawn....
(ironic aside, I actually have involved a shotgun and worries about kids on my lawn)
Greenpeace was founded by Boomers and is ran by Gen X'ers, which includes those who set the stunt up. The only Millenials I saw were the ones posing for photos.
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
Way to miss the point. The complaint is they defaced a national treasure.
No this. Thankfully Florida told him to cram it. On the other hand, his messes *can* be cleaned up. This can't.
This is obviously false, since, if your previous statements are to believed, nobody else in "society" can afford to do that either.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
The universe where "making them livable" means
1 Close to shotgunning the existing remnants of "good folks" because they must be The Problem.
2 building only artsy boutique type shops (who cares about a Certified Fair Trade Vegan Coffee Shoppe when a good diner is whats needed)
3 driving out the folks you claim to be helping (because they do not fit the New Style you are bringing)
4 only building Loft and Condo type housing (which makes the Homeless situation worse)
5 bringing in outside workers because the local workers do not fit The Narrative (i dare any of these projects to seek out the Homeless/Under Housed for workers)
created by Boomers and taken as a Holy Cause by Millenials
the ends justify the means, until they lose the moral high ground.
lose != loose
I'll take greatest generation and Cuban Missile Crisis for $500 Alex.
Able archer wasn't the first it's probably not the 2nd or the last either it's just one we found out about and isn't even all that well known currently.
That said the whole recent trend towards political correctness, and kids acting like Orwellian zampolits is not what I would call a good thing.
This isn't a millennial thing, or an environmentalist thing, it's a Greenpeace thing. They've been arrogant pricks for at least 30 years.
While I envy their goals, Greenpeace are nothing but a bunch of assholes whose antics are counterproductive. The court system is not the only way to go about protecting wildlife and the environment, I get that. But the inflammatory things they say and their repeated criminal actions not only make them incapable of affecting any meaningful change, but instead they galvanize those they accuse of wrongdoing and hurt the abilities of reasonable people to carry on the mission. Every time I see Greenpeace in the news I can't help but wish they'd just go away, so the rest of us might be able to talk some reason into the polluters and habitat destroyers of the world. With them present it is impossible to convince many on the wrong side of environmental issues, because Greenpeace are so needlessly combative and wrong-headed.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
Please don't equate Greenpeace assholes with everyone younger than you. Most "millenials" are not trampling your lawn or ruining Debian. Do you care to make up any more stereotypes?
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
At the heigh of WWII the Nazi party had 8 million members. That's .4 per cent of the world population of 2 billion. No where near "a good chunk."
The original post blindly labeled my entire generation as hipster, gentrifying assholes. The same argument comes to mind.
As a longtime resident of a 'crumbling downtown' that is getting made 'livable again', I can tell you what's wrong with it. We have had a self-sustaining and functional community in my neighborhood for over 30 years. Everyone from outside called it the 'bad part' of town, and we always just accepted that, because we don't want any attention anyways. A few hipster breweries and barcodes set-up in shop a few years ago, and now rents have gone up between 50-200 percent, the cops are here all the time when those nice cars attract petty theft, there are drunken douchebags screaming, fighting, vandalizing low-income apartments and houses all hours of the night every night, and buildings that sold for 170k 10 years ago are put on the market for 1.5 million.
But but but think of the business!! Amirite??? We were a mixed use neighborhood, but mostly residential and parks, with a few bodegas, a 40 year old family grocer, a few small restaurants and a few pubs. In the last 7 years we have had the displeasure of becoming the home to 9 huge alcohol related endeavors. Business can go fuck itself. It's ruined a decades old community.
By far the worst part about it though, is having to listen to dips hits like you, that move in, live her for a year or two, and then say shit like "BUT LOOK WE CLEANED IT UP FOR YOU DERP".
Edits for rage typing: Meant to say 'bar-cades' not 'barcodes". TLDR is my neighborhood got gentrified. All the mexicans and browns couldn't afford it and moved on, and now I have to listen to wealthy 23 year olds who have lived here for 2 years pontificate to me about how everything hear is 'cleaned up' and 'better' now that their money is in charge and my rent goes up $50 every 6 months. Also didn't mean to quote 'switch rape', but what the hell, maybe it's appropriate?
What they achieved was naming themselves "The Greatest Generation". Nobody else did it; they decided to call themselves that.
And of course, that doesn't make it so.
Even so, I have to admit that GP has a point. The "current generation" seems to be completely full of itself, with an arrogance it never earned. At the same time they're making some of the same stupid mistakes their grandparents did, when they should know better. It's like nobody ever taught them history.
Millennials are not in charge. Wait until that happens before you judge.
In any case, not all Millennials are hipsters etc. Just as not all boomers were hippies. If you want to attack someone, then be specific to what you're talking about. Rail against hipster activist douchebags. Don't attack all millennials..
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Name one thing a Millennial - any Millennial - has done to improve America.
Edward Snowden (millennial) blew the lid on massive online surveillance (an invention of the boomers).
QED
Crimey
>They wear glasses without any lenses, for crying out loud. No sane person would do something that fucking dumb.
In fairness a large percentage of the male population wears ties - an utterly useless accessory that's every bit as stupid as lensless glasses.
As for Ferguson - personaly I've heard almost none but the obvious trolls claim the thug's actions were excusable. What they mostly said was that it was utterly unnaceptable for a police officer to shoot a man who didn't pose a comparably severe immediate threat, especially not eight times. It seems extremely unlikely that the man still posed a serious threat after the first several shots hit him, making the later shots bald-faced murder. And that the official response was such an obviously biased travesty that the justice department may as well have just hung up a giant "Fuck You All" sign.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Yes, the picturesque thugs and raving street lunatics that once made your neighborhood special are gone. Because of the gentrifiers, you have to look at freshly painted walls and live with the hell of tourist traffic and rising property values. Probably the water coming out of your faucet is transparent now. Oh, the horror.
You're not really defending blatant douche-baggery based on the notion that other people have been douche-bags in the past, are you?
Actually I think he might have a point.
Squatters have started raising pigs on the site of Peru's Nazca lines - the giant designs best seen from an airplane that were mysteriously etched into the desert more than 1,500 years ago.
"We get 120-180 reports or alerts about encroachments every year," Alva said. "For my colleagues in the rest of Latin America, who get two or maybe five cases per year, that figure is unbelievable."
It's not like they unsealed a tomb, careless people have been tromping around these things for millenia from early European explorers to various locals to backpacking douchbags who look up the location on google maps.
And yes it caused damage, but they didn't wreck the figure anymore than any of those previous groups wreaked it. It's like touching a painting in a gallery, your individual poke won't leave a mark, but if a bunch of people do it the painting will be ruined.
I think that's probably the main motivation for the comments, first they're rightfully offended by Greenpeace attempting to expropriate their heritage to try and make a viral video. But moreover they're worried that Greenpeace will inspire copycats to visit the sites, and it won't take a lot of that before you start seeing visible damage.
I stole this Sig
As usual, Jane/Lonny Eachus is wrong: "'The Greatest Generation' is a term coined by journalist Tom Brokaw to describe the generation who grew up in the United States during the deprivation of the Great Depression, and then went on to fight in World War II, as well as those whose productivity within the war's home front made a decisive material contribution to the war effort, for which the generation is also termed the G.I. Generation."
Members of the "Greatest Generation" were born from 1901 to 1924, but Tom Brokaw was born in 1940.
So Jane/Lonny Eachus is wrong. Again. The "Greatest Generation" isn't a self-designation.
Globally speaking, a good portion of "The Greatest Generation" were fucking Nazis.
There is no "globally speaking" about the greatest generation. The term refers to Americans of that era that assumed the burdens that they did. And in ordinary discussion I don't think that refernces to a particular generation in a culture are inclusive of all people across the globe that fall into a similar age bracket otherwise most of those discussion which are framed in terms of particular cultures and values would be meaningless. You've made a poor argument.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Would you say the same think if Greenpeace put a big banner across Mount Rushmore and parts fell of due to them driving in pitons?
At the most, some dozen people or so were involved in this latest Greenpeace vandalism stunt, and you're using that to blame tens of millions of people. There have been obnoxious people in every generation since mankind evolved, and they have always been vastly outnumbered by decent people.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Here is a picture of the damaged Greenpeace caused. Basically, all of the lighter color in the red-marked area is where their footprints broke the crust.
Repair is, of course impossible. Serious financial consequences, plus criminal prosecution of all involved.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
Greenpeace is not, and has NEVER been an environmental organization. From the very beginning, they have been a marketing organization abusing the public's sympathy to environmental concerns to suck up contributions that would otherwise have gone to people doing real work to improve the environment.
If you care about pollution, deforestation, preserving wildlife, etc, contribute to Ducks Unlimited, the Nature Conservancy, the Audubon Society, and your local environmental organizations.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
What they achieved was naming themselves "The Greatest Generation".
The defeat of Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and Fascist Italy don't ring a bell? Ending the death camps and the Holocaust? Helping to rebuild Europe? Nothing?
Now I'm wondering about something, and trying to remember something. How old are you, and which genereation was it that was referred to as "the "Me" generation"?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
\Neither fire, the wheel, the printing press or the spork came from the "greatest generation". I don't know what they achieved to deserve that moniker.
The defeat of Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and Fascist Italy don't ring a bell? Ending the death camps and the Holocaust? Helping to rebuild Europe? Nothing?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
The alternative you clearly prefer is to continue the degradation of civilization. There is no other possible alternative; things either get better or they get worse. You have consciously and deliberately chosen making things worse.
BTW, why didn't the people who were living there improve it?
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
No sane person would care if someone did.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
The stupid part was that this could actually have been done with little or no damage at all had the activist just followed some basic rules when dealing with the area.
1. No not walk in other's footsteps.
2. Wear the foot square pads on your feet to spread out your weight.
3. Do not bring cars to the site.
Had they done some basic research they may not have had a problem. The activists did note care about the damage they did.
And we all know that if even one person survives in the West, then civilization is saved!
The people in charge at the start of the Korean and Vietnam wars were born before 1940, which rules out the Boomers. Do you really think 7-year-olds were in command in Korea?
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
From this post here are some interesting images.
The Damage. Those are new lines created by Greepeace. Notice the bright line to the left. That is where they drove their cars off the existing roads. I guess walking a bit is more important than preserving an international heritage site.
The Foorwear This is what they should have been wearing to visit the lines. It spread out the weight and causes less damage. They did the worst thing possible by walking in a line in regular shoes.
From Socrates to the collapse of the Greek Empire after Alexander the Great's death is about 75 years. It is very tempting to claim cause and effect.
Considering that much of what we know of Socrates is from Plato, who had his own axe to grind, the number of years may be even less.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Perhaps because they didn't have any money?
I prefer a plan that raises things from the bottom up so that the residents already there naturally make improvements based on their improved financial status.
To make it a fair comparison, you must move the time window such that the oldest boomers alive are the same age as the oldest millenials are now. That makes it the late 70s at earliest.
In the late 70s, the World Wide Web did not exist yet, and would continue to not exist for a decade.
The Internet was invented by the generation before them, and it was not yet all that important.
If you want to do intergenerational comparisons, you need to do one of three things:
1. Wait ~50 years.
2. Restrict yourself to the world as it existed when the oldest Boomer was in their early 30s (even if they already a great thing, it must be recognized as a great thing).
3. State your values clearly so we can know what defines "improvement of America".
I don't find Barack Obama particularly damning as a Presidential choice (it's not like he was a big drop-off from the last guy). You obviously don't value social media, which is kind of interesting actually, given that:
- In my experience things like facebook are more widely appreciated by the older generations than by the Millenials.
- Web forums, including slashdot, are social media. Forums were invented at the tail end of the pre-millenial generation, so you get a bye on using social media to complain about social media's worthlessness, but what makes you like forums but dislike others? What is the essential difference that makes the latter worthless?
why again do we have to let men who "feel like" women into the lady's room?!)
This is not a new issue; this is not a Millenial invention.
They've destroyed traditional cultural norms.
First: so what?
Second: literally every generation ever has done that. The US had a cultural norm that slavery was okay, and it was later replaced by a norm that slavery was abhorrent.
Note: I'm not an American so I have no horse in the "who improved America most" race.
The thug was trying to force the gun out of the police officer's hand before the first shot was fired. It's hard for a threat to be more serious than that.
The thug was under the influence of mind-degrading drugs. Such people often keep fighting violently even after being shot several times. The pain/shock reflex that stops sober people is disabled.
A panicked person might well keep firing until the gun is empty. I've heard (I don't know if it's true) that police are trained in such situations to keep firing.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
The damage has probably been exaggerated.
Remember that this site has survived for 1500 years without government protection.
I'm not saying that this site should be open to the public. I definitely don't want hordes of tourists walking on it. Anyone who has visited Chichen Itza, Machu Pichu or Tikal knows what I mean. But do you really think that twenty people, most of them wearing running shoes (check 0:50 on the youtube video), will do that much damage? Hey slashdot, we are supposed to be the techies. How about getting before and after images and doing some digital image correlation.
I doubt there was any real damage to the site. The government is doing the right thing discouraging future visits. And Greenpeace definitely eff'd up from the public relations standpoint.
Look at the pictures. Those Greenpeacers don't look like Millennials to me.
Livable huh? Did you live in one of them? Unless you were willing to live in one of these places, then you can't really call them liveable really.
The fact that people for whatever reason end up in a slum doesn't make that place "liveable".
By such a weak standard, you could claim that any slum on the planet is "liveable" including that notorious one in Hong Kong.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Those damn kids had better get off your lawn!
It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.
-Voltaire
Or they could just kill themselves and everyone to save the planet.
I am reminded of the fortune-file entry "/earth is 98% full. Please delete anyone you can."
Green Peace is not run by millenials. It's run by Boomers, as would have been revealed by a trivial amount of online research.
By the way, channeling ancient Greek complaints about the youth isn't exactly original.
.: Semper Absurda
\Neither fire, the wheel, the printing press or the spork came from the "greatest generation". I don't know what they achieved to deserve that moniker.
The defeat of Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and Fascist Italy don't ring a bell? Ending the death camps and the Holocaust? Helping to rebuild Europe? Nothing?
What about the Nazis, the Japan Imperialists, the Italian Fascists and the people who destroyed Europe? Don't ring a bell either?
lucm, indeed.
The defeat of Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and Fascist Italy don't ring a bell? Ending the death camps and the Holocaust? Helping to rebuild Europe?
And, logically, establishing Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan and Fascist Italy, creating the death camps, committing the holocaust and destroying Europe.
.: Semper Absurda
At the same time they're making some of the same stupid mistakes their grandparents did
Not really, but never let the facts get in the way of self-congratulation!
Compared to recent past generations, millennials commit fewer violent crimes, are less likely to have unplanned pregnancies, are more educated and more tolerant. Given the amount of social research now available, these and other related trends can all be verified with trivial effort.
Just because you and Socrates don't like the young people you meet, doesn't mean social progress stopped the day you came of age.
.: Semper Absurda
The defeat of Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and Fascist Italy don't ring a bell? Ending the death camps and the Holocaust? Helping to rebuild Europe? Nothing?
And, logically, establishing Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan and Fascist Italy, creating the death camps, committing the holocaust and destroying Europe.
"Great" doesn't always mean "good."
.: Semper Absurda
In your opinion, was the "white flight" of years past good?
We're basically seeing that trend reversed because of contemporary lifestyle changes.
.: Semper Absurda
Just look at what they've done to San Francisco, Brooklyn, and numerous other places. They move into well established urban locales, drive up rents, and destroy the existing communities. Even the Boomers generally didn't do this, as they just built their own shitty suburbs.
This nation was built on the principle that being first doesn't entitle you to the land. There's no reason why people should not be permitted to drive up property values around you whatsoever. Not fucking one. When that happens, your property value goes up. If you can no longer afford to live there because property taxes have risen or because grocery prices have because your save-mart was replaced with a whole foods, then you will get more for your house than when you bought it (unless you are a dumbshit, and bought at the top of the market) and you can afford to move someplace else — someplace not yet gentrified.
No, the problem with these systems is rent, because rent is theft. It's profiting from basic needs on the principle of artificial scarcity. Look at our country, there are far more vacant houses than there are homeless families. Why is this situation permitted to persist? Greed. And, mind you, it's Boomer greed. They're the ones running the banks.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I bet these Greenpeace activist could have never afforded to fly to Peru in say 1964.
Not only would it have been cheaper, but they would have been able to just get on the fucking plane and go without being anal probed.
Of course, the boomers and their Soviet counterparts came pretty close to inadvertently wiping out civilization during Able Archer, which no other generation has managed to repeat since then.
Every generation since forever has been working hard on it. It's called deforestation.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Same goddamned thing that's "wrong" with every other generation ever.
And yet, violent crime, teen pregnancy, teen drug use, etc. are much lower now than during the youths of the Baby Booms or Gen X.
.: Semper Absurda
The thug was trying to force the gun out of the police officer's hand before the first shot was fired. It's hard for a threat to be more serious than that.
The thug was moving in the other direction when the last shot was fired, which struck him from behind. There's no basis to argue that so many shots were necessary.
A panicked person might well keep firing until the gun is empty. I've heard (I don't know if it's true) that police are trained in such situations to keep firing.
If they are, that's bad. If not, then what happened was still bad. It's not unusual to not know how many rounds you have fired in a panic situation, but it is unnecessary to empty the clip every time. That's for gangster movies. Guess what happens during the reload if you find out too late that your target had a friend?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You're just a bad parent. In general, millenials are less violent, more tolerant, more educated and use less drugs than preceding generations. All of these trends can be verified with trivial research. Social progress is real, regardless of you and Socrates.
.: Semper Absurda
Good points, IMHO. I'm not sure you'll find much of an ear with the people channeling Socrates on the youth, though.
.: Semper Absurda
The thug was under the influence of mind-degrading drugs. Such people often keep fighting violently even after being shot several times.
Yes, as we all know, marijuana makes you invincible to bullets.
.: Semper Absurda
In other words, "Get off my lawn!"
Oh, I see. You're confused, you think that the Germans, Japanese, and Italians are part of the greatest generation. No, the reference is to Americans of that era that took of the burden of defeating the Axis powers, among other things. Or did I get your point of confusion wrong?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
The reference is Americans of that era, not to every person of that era across the globe. So no, itdoesn't apply logically to the Axis powers. Great as good isn't an unwarranted flavor of meaning in this case.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
It's simple. "Nothing is more important than my cause." That is the result of raising them to believe they are entitled.
-- Will program for bandwidth
"Greatest generation" only applies to Americans. Or is this a troll based on your .sig "Semper Absurda"?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
They wear glasses without any lenses, for crying out loud. No sane person would do something that fucking dumb.
Hey everyone. Don't mention jewellery. God forbid this poster finds out his own generation wore items that serve no useful purpose, he may just grab a gun and start shooting.
If we had of nuked all the population centers in Russia we would have killed off most of our own population and been breeding mutants for another century. Really I had no wish to play Fallout the Cuban Missile Crisis edition.
Here here!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Not the same at all. The Mona Lisa wasn't created by Erich Von Daeniken in the 1970s.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I am part of this generation. I have no answers to your questions. All I can do is feel ashamed and speculate.
My guess is that my generation is spoiled rotten. We never had any challenges or widespread hardships compared to the generations prior. Baby boomers dealt with Cold War. The Greatest Generation before them fought in World War 2. We got everything delivered to us on a silver platter, so we never learned to appreciate it or even learnt concepts of respect.
What the activists did in Peru is discusting beyond words. All I can do is hope that they are a horrible exception and that (Degenerate though as we are) the rest of this generation are not as bad as them.
No, Americans did not "take the burden of defeating the Axis powers". That part was done by the Soviet Union. As far as the glorious victory over Japan, achieved with the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocents (also known as the biggest war crime of History), then yes, it was 100% American.
The truth is that Americans of that generation (and many others) were far from being as great as Hollywood movies made you believe. They were like the dullard who hangs out with the cool kids and that puts himself in the center of every event when he writes his diary.
lucm, indeed.
It's cred. I'm happy to have snagged a six-digit UID. It shows I've been here long enough to know the ropes.
Silicon & Charybdis McLuhan Kildall Papert Kay
It was neither good nor bad.
Socrates said this same stuff about the next generation thousands of years ago,before any modern advancement etc. ancient things get ruined,thats why they are called ruins. the smart people will make things better enough that it mostly negates the idiots.when it doesn't work anymore finally,well thats when we go to mars and try again.
stuff |
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint".
(Hesiod, 8th century BC)
Well said sir.
those bush fires are started to clear the jungle/forest and create new farmland. And the reason they do that is... overpopulation. So yes, it wouldn't be an issue if the population is low.
Awfully accommodating of the lightning gods to clear farmland... since almost all of them are started by lightning.
They have sequestered carbon in their bodies. Nothing wrong in that.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Americans! You seem to think the entire world shares in your American memes (and counter-meme in this case).
The *purpose* of greenpeace was to etch their own message alongside the ancient lines. So it's like you took a brush to an art exhibition, and touched the painting with one dipped in nice oil colors.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
The defeat of Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and Fascist Italy don't ring a bell? Ending the death camps and the Holocaust? Helping to rebuild Europe?
And, logically, establishing Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan and Fascist Italy, creating the death camps, committing the holocaust and destroying Europe.
No, that would have been the generation before them. As one other person mentioned, they were born between 1901 and 1924. Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, were all born prior to that (Hirohito was born in 1901 so it's debatable that he'd be part of the same generation, but he also inherited his reign.) I don't know what their moniker is, but if I were to coin it myself, I'd say it was the absolutism generation. (It also may be that many of them had a strong influence from Bernard Forster's interpretation of Nietzche's work. Hitler seemed to share a lot of opinions with Forster for example.)
I know there were some people during those years who were otherwise somewhat sympathetic with e.g. Hitler (such as Henry Ford) but again, I think it's safe to say that most of them were from the generation prior.
Now I don't want to comment on whether or not 1901 to 1924 was truly the greatest generation, but your statement about their generation being responsible for the rise of fascism would be incorrect.
No, the problem with these systems is rent, because rent is theft. It's profiting from basic needs on the principle of artificial scarcity. Look at our country, there are far more vacant houses than there are homeless families.
“Whenever there is in any country uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right.”
You might be surprised as to who wrote that.
Not 100% American either, the Soviets have destroyed the Kwantung army in Manchuria.
So basically the Russians did most of the work in WW2, the Americans took most of the credit.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
You're ignoring the next steps though. As situations improve for the community as a whole, the car is just the start. Next they want to upgrtade their apartment, generally within the community. At that point, building owners either start to upgrade or their buildings go vacant. At that point, strong building regulations can drive improvements within the means of the current residents.
When that process happens over time, it builds nice communities. When it happens due to a sudden influx of people with more dollars than sense you destroy the community.
Here's the big problem.. who do you think raised these rotten millenials? The woodstock generation.. a more self serving self righteous generation never existed and I'm ashamed to be part of it...
Ah, yes, the infamous "race to the bottom," with well-intentioned (no doubt) efforts to *make* everybody suffer *equally* and make *everybody* miserable. That's the ultimate result of blindly and relentlessly pursuing what is frequently touted as (and heard---in the form of shrill voices crying) "fair" this, and "fair" that!
-- "I'm not in a hurry; I'm in Hawaii." The Homeless Guy
Get off my lawn you kids!
I'd like to add that I used to marvel at how all my hippie friends raised their kids, and thinking no good was going to come of this, that if those kids ever have kids of their own we're in real trouble. Well, they did, and we're in trouble. Thankfully some have chosen to carry the burden for the rest of us .. but defacing Nazca is NOT how to do it..
But but but think of the business!! Amirite??? We were a mixed use neighborhood, but mostly residential and parks, with a few bodegas, a 40 year old family grocer, a few small restaurants and a few pubs. In the last 7 years we have had the displeasure of becoming the home to 9 huge alcohol related endeavors. Business can go fuck itself. It's ruined a decades old community.
That is a real problem, but it's a direct result of city zoning and alcohol license policies. If they don't make it impossible to open the booze joints in the neighborhoods where the patrons live, that won't happen.
and buildings that sold for 170k 10 years ago are put on the market for 1.5 million.
Yes. That's how you know it's time to sell and run for the hills if you don't want to be a part of mainstream society. Perhaps literally; 1.5M will buy you a lot of nice property in the hill country, unless it's one of the hill countries that became gentrified.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I don't find Barack Obama particularly damning as a Presidential choice (it's not like he was a big drop-off from the last guy).
Don't be grateful for another turd just because turds are the only things on the buffet.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
My guess is that my generation is spoiled rotten.
The Boomers were spoiled rotten. Just look at what they've accomplished.
I suspect people have been saying this stuff throughout history, though...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I'd be a little upset about this. It was a needless thing to do. Greenpeace would do itself a better favor by placing their 'change agents' in upscale liberal/leftist neighborhoods where they can make their insipid pleas for Gaia to uninformed white people instead of disrupting the very thing they are fighting for in the name of their cause. They might as well kill whales to save them.
Our culture has evolved over thousands of years. There is a reason things are the way they are, and you don't get to start throwing away well established cultural norms just for the sake of change.
You seem to have the idea that evolution represents a forward march of progress, but that it should have stopped thirty years ago (when you were last comfortable with it). These ideas seem to conflict with each other.
Because forums are for discussions and conversations. People can communicate ideas and get responses. Millennial's use of social media is solely about inflating their egos. They use things like Instagram and Twitter where they sprout their useless opinions, never once listening to anyone but themselves. Ever seen a group of Millennials at the mall? They're all on their damned phones, taking pictures and posting them to social media, barely interacting with each other. Older generations use Facebook to communicate, Millennials use it to keep everyone updated about their meaningless lives, never once listening to anyone else. It's all about them, their selfies, and generating "likes."
Every generation that has experienced new media forms has complained about them, and the new cultural norms that have resulted from their use. I don't know what you think you're adding to anyone's life by being upset about this.
This is not a new issue; this is not a Millenial invention.
Weird how this has never come up before in my life until Millennials started getting involved in politics. Try asking if a man should be allowed in the lady's room twenty years ago and no one would understand why the hell you'd even ask that question.
Human biology does not necessitate having different facilities for different genders' waste elimination. Almost all households don't bother with it. That they exist in public is purely a social phenomenon. We had separate facilities for blacks, too, at one point. There are biological differences between the sexes, but those don't necessarily correlate strongly to gender identity. Biology doesn't have the neat divide between these things that you imagine there is. One hopes that eventually humans will stop confusing pooping with having anything to do with either sex or gender. (It will still be polite to leave the seat down).
Myself, I have a measure of compassion for the poor bastard who has to make a Sophie's choice whenever they want to take a shit in public. I wish I could convey to you the terror and shame that this situation involves for differently gendered people.
You have to consider that there is no cure for "feeling like a woman". In all sincerity, it's wonderful that you've never felt like you had the wrong body. Having your brain tell you that your body is wrong in some way is a continual torment. Faced with the options of self-mutilation and a lifetime of social consequences, or a lifetime of body dysphoria, many people choose death.
It is easier and cheaper not to cater to the physically handicapped. Yet we build ramps and elevators, we put braille on signs, we allow service animals practically everywhere, and we accept that it is reasonable for these accommodations to be made -- that people with disabilities have a right to the same quality of life as anyone else. In this case the only accommodation being asked is being able to use a public bathroom in peace, although it would be great if we could work on not publicly humiliating these people as well. If our society is getting to the point of having to discuss transgender rights, that can only be a good thing.
There is one piece of good news for you: no one is seeking to abolish your freedom to be a bigot. What you're noticing is simply that most people are not sufficiently misanthropic to perpetuate your views.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
Mod up 1000. But sadly you'll get flame for making this jewel of common sense observation...
Murphy was an optimist
They walked on the ground. The photos in the article, take at the time after the sign was laid (thus the damage was done), showed no signs of damage. I'm sure that if you crawl on the ground with a microscope, you can identify where they walked, but the designs were designed to be seen from the air. And a high-res photo from the air shows nothing I can see.
Learn to love Alaska
Stop it. You're triggering me. Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
I had a friend many years ago that was shot by police. He was shot in the heart and he still managed to cross the distance between himself and the cop before he fell. If he had managed to stay functional for another five seconds he would have managed to seriously damage if not kill the cop.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Rent is theft? Have you been told today? if not, FSCK OFF.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
“Whenever there is in any country uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right.”
You might be surprised as to who wrote that.
Was it Michael Moore?
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
While I agree that this is an opportunity for politicians to discredit Greenpeace.. its not an issue of ENVIRONMENTAL damage.. its an issue of preserving National and World Heritage. The government of Peru is not worried about plants and animals in this case.. it is worried about keeping these ancient grounds for future generations.
What they did is the equivalent of pissing on the Mona Lisa.
Don't give them ideas!
Stop learning! Only you can prevent esoterrorism.
How many Soviets fought in the Pacific campaigns, such as Okinawa, Tarawa, the Philippines, and Iwo Jima? Were any Soviet warships present at Midway or Coral Sea? Did the Soviets contribute any warships to defeat the U-boats in the Atlantic to keep the supply lines open? Did any Soviet armies fight in Africa, the Middle East, or Italy? Did they help liberate France? How big was their strategic bombing campaign against Germany? How million tons of war material, food, and other supplies did the USSR ship to the US and UK?*
The answer to all of the above is either zero, or close enought to zero that it doesn't matter. The reverse is certainly not true.
The Soviets then, and Russians now, don't seem shy at all about claiming credit for the defeat of the Axis. They still hold a rather large military parade each year to celebrate it. (I trust nothing is said about Italy since .... you know.)
* Did you know that 30-40% of the heavy tanks helping to defend Moscow at the Battle of Moscow in 1941 were Lend Lease material?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Sounds like a spray of laquer would fix the problem. Darken the light stand stirred up, and prevent erosion. Claiming it's impossible means it's easy, but undesirable.
Learn to love Alaska
For a site that you can't see the grains of sound of, your "fix" is excessive. From the air, the photos of the "damage" all have additional editing to help them stand out. Because, if you don't point them out (or know where you are looking for), you'll never be able to see it. Sounds like a problem laquer would fix. Hold the existing sand in place, and darken it. If that were done, the damage would be invisible to those seeing it from a safe place.
Learn to love Alaska
You are a bigot; you think in terms of environmental damage without even considering the people who were insulted by Greenepeace's callousness.
I wish there was a way to tag posts, and block posters until they argued with people I chose for them. This AC is arguing that offending someone is an actionable activity. But the Libertarians on Slashdot generally argue there is no right to not be offended, and someone deliberately trying to cause offense should be held blameless, and result of their actions is the responsibility of those who acted.
Because I'm generally in the middle of that issue, and I get both sides telling me I'm wrong. I guess they've given up arguing with each other, and now just argue with everyone.
Learn to love Alaska
It is a liberal (not non-liberal, though that's a mouthful) comment. "People have the right to not be offended" is a requirement of the post. That's a liberal idea, at least according to the vocal members of Slashdot.
Maybe he was hiding because the liberals are persecuted heavily on here. Loonitarian is the official ideology of Slashdot, because they are the most vocal and abusive, running off all others.
Learn to love Alaska
I sea what you did they're.
Learn to love Alaska
"Defaced" with about as much damage as taking a boat too close to Liberty Island with a wake in a no-wake zone.
Learn to love Alaska
WWII Its all a matter of perspective - and propaganda.. -
If you take Stalin's version of the History then the entirely innocent Soviet Union fought the evil fascists who had murdered 25 million East Europeans.
If you take the old Wests version before the "Stalinisation" of our history (est 1991), then the Soviets killed/murdered between about 10 million and 30 million people in Eastern Europe during WWII - including up to about 10 million in death camps, and including about 1.5 million Jews.. The difference between the Soviets and the Nazi's was that the Soviets had 50 years to cover it up and fully brainwash local populations into believing their version of the history... Like Churchill said 'the Winners Write the History..'
The USA's crimes are miniscule in comparison -
10,000's of Japanese prisoners of are murdered out of hand after being captured or surrendering..
10,000's of Japanese women raped after or during the end of the conflict..
200,000 killed by the two atomic bombs, on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
100,000 to 200,000 killed during the fire bombing of Tokyo, mostly women, children, and OAP's..
(In their defence most of the US high command were using performance enhancers at the time - especially 'cocaine'.)
We in the UK can smugly claim that we committed very few war crimes in comparison. -
Except maybe the carpet bombing of the German cities - using incendiaries.
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
Got me beat.
If a neighborhood is in decline, with businesses leaving or going bankrupt, and new businesses (if any) being ones like payday loans and pawnshops, and residences deteriorate, unsurprisingly, rents and real estate values go down. It is called a name like "urban decay" or "urban blight", and it's a bad thing.
If people reverse the process -- fixing up existing buildings or replacing them, starting new businesses that create a lot of value for their customers -- unsurprisingly, rents and real estate values go up. it's called "gentrification" and it's a bad thing.
By a lot of the same people.
I guess some people just don't like change.
And they call other people "conservative". Go figure.
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
Dumb ass. During testing some 2000 nuclear bombs were detonated .. Chernobyl released the same radiation as at least 200 nuclear bombs.. So why aren't we all dead and where are all the mutants? because its all 90% fantasy and always has been. Propaganda by Greenpeice and all the other Psudo-Green liars.. How many people have Greenpeace killed? well the switch from nuclear and to coal has already killed between about 5 and 10 million people globally, and that's about 10 to 20 times the number killed so far by nuclear bombs..
BTW The statement that nuclear war would kill 'everyone' on Earth always ignored the populations outside the big cities or outside the US or Russia or allies.. Africa, South America, most of Asia, even North America north of the US or half of Europe - all would be mostly untouched, but then the anti nuclear lobby were never much for geography, history or facts in general..
Me I'm with Gene Roddenberry and afraid that it is only those civilizations that go through the fire of a global nuclear war that get to survive and eventually become interstellar civilizations.. The rest rot through their own self importance and arrogance and eventually suffocate themselves with climate change and the pollution and short sightedness of consumerism..
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
Trouble is some people will take that as racism. We in the UK have a turd called David Cameron as Prime minister, before that it was a turd called Tony Blair, and before that John Major, before that Thatcher.. - all turds, all white ... Course they are only metaphorical turds not real - real turds never have chosen to fund HS2 or gone into Iraq and bailed out the thieving bankers with our money....
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
Once you take coal into account Greenpeace have killed far more than either ISIS or the Taliban. (coal 10,000 x more dangerous than nuclear promoted by Greenpeace.) With their agrarian, anti-science philosophy contaminating the climate change and environmental debate they are also arguably a bigger threat to the future as well. :D
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
This is all assuming you believe everything the police officer says is true. As we in the UK keep learning, when they do something wrong or commit crime no one lies more fluidly than the police.
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
I don't know if you are stupid or just plain insane. But please keep ending your posts with how nuclear war is a good thing.
Not really, but never let the facts get in the way of self-congratulation!
Yes, really.
Compared to recent past generations, millennials commit fewer violent crimes, are less likely to have unplanned pregnancies, are more educated and more tolerant. Given the amount of social research now available, these and other related trends can all be verified with trivial effort.
Yes, they commit fewer violent crimes. They have fewer unplanned pregnancies because of what they were TAUGHT by past generations. They are more educated because their parents and grandparents ensured that they would be; that is not an "accomplishment" of their own.
But what about other things? What about the fact that they have been attempting to make the same political and economic mistakes made by their grandparents and great-prandparents? (I'm referring here to socialism and fascism.)
And "tolerance"? Are you fucking joking? What passes for "tolerance" today is political correctness. Any attempts at dissent are greeted with personal and rather vicious attacks. "My view of 'tolerance', or I will attack you" is not real tolerance, it is the opposite. It is hypocrisy masquerading as tolerance.
I always forget - sarcasm should be labelled ['sarcasm'] for the hard of thinking..
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
I was only "wrong" to those who didn't get the point. Ahem.
Who said it first is irrelevant. I could have found that on Wikipedia too. The relevant and only important point is that that is the name they gleefully adopted and decided to call themselves.
Whether some news guy thought you were a hero or a villain if far less important than what you go around for the rest of your life calling yourself. And that was the flattering name they decided to call themselves.
I'm not trying to put them down. People of that era did some great things. But "greatest generation"? Hardly.
I always forget - sarcasm should be labelled ['sarcasm'] for the hard of thinking..
You obviously weren't alive at the time. There were people that welcomed the idea of a nuclear showdown with the Soviet Union.
Yes but be the same argument embracing capitalism makes you indirectly 'morally guilty' for the deaths of about 500 million to 1 billion people - the number killed by poverty during the twentieth century.. Hey I'm a capitalist and half a communist too - so does that make me responsible for both?
Real Marxists of course would point out that Soviet communism was far more like fascism or simple dictatorship than real communism and would probably then point at the French Libertines.
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
We either disagree about the definition of the word "irrelevant" or the phrase "nobody else".
Well, how many Americans fought the Japanese in Manchuria?
How many Americans fought in Yugoslavia?
You mean the battles that were barely a blip on the radar compared to what happened on the Eastern front? But yes, matter of fact, USSR and UK invaded Iran together.
Large enough. USSR has started bombing Berlin two weeks after it entered WW2. Two years earlier than the Americans that were - as 20 years earlier - quite late to the party. You didn't know that?
Which was paid for in gold and for decades after the war. That was just business, nothing more.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Germany was not defeated only on the Eastern Front. Britain had a very large role in the air war early on, and is the main reason the Luftwaffe wasn't much stronger in the German invasion of the Soviet Union. While the German Navy didn't take that much manpower, it did take a lot of other resources, and it was defeated primarily by the Brits.
From about mid-1943 on, the US intervention had a major effect, but it wasn't until Fall 1944 that the main US armies were decisively engaged against Germany. The US was not responsible for making sure Germany didn't win, but had a considerable affect on the outcome.
As far as Japan goes, their defeat was primarily due to US. We do have to acknowledge the serious Australian effort (although MacArthur went to some lengths not to), and some assistance from the British. The Soviet contribution was more indirect until the very end, tying down large Japanese land forces.
The nukes (or are you referring to the firebombing of Tokyo, which was the single most lethal bombing attack in history) were not war crimes according to the laws of war at the time, and my best estimation is that they considerably reduced the number of Japanese civilians to die from the war. (In addition, they almost certainly saved more civilians in China and other areas, although I've never seen possible Chinese loss of life brought up by anybody but me.)
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Greenpeace may have started with the boomers. But the new generation with a lot of time on their hands and rather limited experience or for that matter education, on how things really work. I remember feeling all indignant about big industry and "corporations", but i kept reading and soon learnt the reality of the situation. After all I was enjoying a rather nice lifestyle because of of big industry and corporations.
I mean how many greenpeace people with iPhones, or worse driving around protesting all the time on the unemployment benefit (know a few that did that in NZ) do you know.
If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
Nothing makes me angrier than the cops that shoot first and ask questions later. But according to the coroner's report, the thug was never shot from behind. Plus, 9 black witnesses reported that he was charging the officer during the last of the shots fired.
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
Well, how many Americans fought the Japanese in Manchuria?
How many Americans fought in Yugoslavia?
In Yugoslavia there were probably around something less than 10 Americans engaged in operations against Fascist forces. However, if you're referencing traditional forces engagement and conflict in Yugoslavia could not reasonably happen without first securing Italy, Greece, or Germany. Maintaining supply lines would have been exceedingly difficult.
Large enough. USSR has started bombing Berlin two weeks after it entered WW2. Two years earlier than the Americans that were - as 20 years earlier - quite late to the party. You didn't know that?
Large enough? The Soviet Union was responsible for 6,700 tons of bombs being dropped against Germany throughout the war. That was 3.1% of Soviet bombing missions and accounted for 0.2% of all bombs dropped against Germany. All told that means the Soviets dropped roughly 220,000 tons of bombs. The Soviets focused most of their bombing on countries like Romania and Finland to try to force those Axis satellite natiosn into surrender. The Soviet never really had production geared to producing long range strategic bombers so their ability to contribute in such a fashion was exceedingly limited.
Comparatively the US dropped 40,000 tons on Berlin in January of 1945 and in one month bombing the capital of Germany with nearly 6x as much ordinance as the Soviety employed throughout the war. The figures I was able to find for the US and UK show 1,463,423 tons for the US and 1,307,117 tons for the UK. I'm not sure if that was against German targets or of that was for the entire war in Europe thus including targeting other belligerants besides Germany.
By no metric can you consider the Soviet bombing effort against Germany "large enough" when compared against the US or UK contribution. What they did do was a token effort and the effort directed elsewhere was politically motivated to secure bargaining chips against the US and UK by securing the surrender of other nations before the US or UK could get involved.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
By the way, channeling ancient Greek complaints about the youth isn't exactly original.
neither is making the same statement 4 times, in slightly different ways. (was probably more than 4 but i lost interest/count)
maybe make the false reference again as to how crime, pregnancy, and drug use is lower now than ever as well, because i'm still not tired of hearing it.
In other words, "Get off my lawn!"
HAHAHAHAHA CUZ THEY'RE OLD... GET IT?
HAHAHAAHHAHA man that shiz never gets old or overused!!!
neither is making the same statement 4 times
You seem fine with your trolls doing it. When trolls post the same inflammatory nonsense over and over, the same trivial refutations are going to get posted over and over too.
the false reference again
The trouble with your variety of troll is that no amount of data can ever change your mind, once made, on any topic. Any facts you don't like are dismissed as fabricated.
.: Semper Absurda
Meh, I never cared for mindless jingoism.
Also, that generation of Americans murdered millions of innocent Japanese civilians, subjugated their women, forced a number of their countrymen into "detention camps" because they happened to be of Japanese descent, institutionalized (and violently defended) racial segregation... the list is extensive.
Point being, if you're going to bitch about "what's wrong with kids today," expect someone to point out that every generation, even the "best" ones, were pretty fucked up too. And I say that as a member of neither group being discussed, in case your the sort of person that matters to.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
lol You're ridiculous. WHY DIDN'T THE POOR FIX IT? IF THEY WANTED IT IMPROVED THEY'D HAVE SPENT WHAT LITTLE MONEY THEY HAD TO MAKE IT BETTER SO THAT GENTRIFICATION COULD DRIVE THEM OUT EVEN FASTER. My intention IS to convey yelling, Slashdot. Thanks though. I wonder how much I have to do to counter this obnoxious filter. Are we somehow under the impression that caps inherently make something less civil than say, gross disrespect? Can I call people names? Is that acceptable? I guess I haven't tried that enough.
The suggestion is that if everyone has a suitable income / level of wealth, there'll be no need for gentrification, and no need to run for the hills before you get bled dry in the home you've lived in for years. You're also aware that renters generally cannot sell their houses right? Jesus, are you not even trying to reason this out?