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Schneier Explains How To Protect Yourself From Sony-Style Attacks (You Can't)

phantomfive writes: Bruce Schneier has an opinion piece discussing the Sony attack. He says, "Your reaction to the massive hacking of such a prominent company will depend on whether you're fluent in information-technology security. If you're not, you're probably wondering how in the world this could happen. If you are, you're aware that this could happen to any company." He continues, "The worst invasion of privacy from the Sony hack didn’t happen to the executives or the stars; it happened to the blameless random employees who were just using their company’s email system. Because of that, they’ve had their most personal conversations—gossip, medical conditions, love lives—exposed. The press may not have divulged this information, but their friends and relatives peeked at it. Hundreds of personal tragedies must be unfolding right now. This could be any of us." Related: the FBI has officially concluded that the North Korean government is behind the attack.

235 of 343 comments (clear)

  1. Sure... by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But you can mitigate the hell out of it, I suggest air gapping.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
    1. Re:Sure... by mysidia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes. Lets air-gap the email system. That would work well.

      No, foo. It's called basic common sense -- keeping confidential medical records, SSNs, and personnel files in paper format only, and not allowing them to be scanned or placed in a system connected to the general business intranet, or "the cloud".

    2. Re:Sure... by skovnymfe · · Score: 1

      Yes, but who really does that? Really? Who really does that?

    3. Re:Sure... by blackomegax · · Score: 2

      The KGB or whatever it's called nowadays literally went back to type-writers and paper.

    4. Re:Sure... by ArcadeMan · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes. Let's air-gap the email system. That would work well.

      Anything that can block spam is a good thing.

    5. Re:Sure... by EndlessNameless · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you air gap email and financial systems, you're stepping right back into the mid-1900s. Back when it took an entire office of secretaries to process correspondence, and another office full of accountants to handle billing and ledgers. Because if those systems are disconnected, someone will have to transfer reams of data in and out of them. That is no longer feasible.

      Your suggestion is so completely impractical, I wonder why you joined slashdog in the first place. You clearly have no understanding of modern IT.

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
    6. Re:Sure... by khasim · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And one of the aspects where I disagree with him:

      Low-focus attacks are easier to defend against: If Home Depot's systems had been better protected, the hackers would have just moved on to an easier target.

      He is phrasing it incorrectly. The attacks are scripted and BLIND. They don't attack X and skip Y if X is vulnerable. Or attack Y if X is not vulnerable. They attack A - Z regardless of the success or failure of any single attack.

      And 100% agreement with your air gap recommendation.

      With attackers who are highly skilled and highly focused, however, what matters is whether a targeted company's security is superior to the attacker's skills, not just to the security measures of other companies.

      He's got it right there. Once you are online you can be attacked by anyone anywhere. The only advantage you have is that you control the wire in your organization. Wireless is more of a pain. But you can see every packet moving on the wire.

      It is hard to put a dollar value on security that is strong enough to assure you that your embarrassing emails and personnel information won't end up posted online somewhere, but Sony clearly failed here.

      In my experience, the problem is not money. The problem is EGO. Someone is always convinced that what they are doing is more important than following what the IT nerds say and they have the political clout within the company to force exceptions be made.

      It is the exceptions that damage your security.

      It is the exceptions that allow the easy-to-prevent attacks to get a foothold on your network. THEN the more advanced attacks are unleashed.

    7. Re:Sure... by the_B0fh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seriously? Keeping your personnel files on paper and not the computer? And you think getting checks is slow now? BWAHAHAHAHA

    8. Re:Sure... by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      Oh, if it's not air gapping, then it must be placed out on the public internet? Are you a fucking moron or do you just play one on slashdot?

    9. Re:Sure... by gweihir · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Remember RSA labs that kept the master keys to SecureID on their network? There is nothing simple or easy here and, of course, security costs money and in capitalism you only spend money if there is an expected gain. Unless people high up in management go to prison or the company is fined heavily on such events, nothing is going to change.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    10. Re:Sure... by mythosaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, foo. It's called basic common sense -- keeping confidential medical records, SSNs, and personnel files in paper format only, and not allowing them to be scanned or placed in a system connected to the general business intranet, or "the cloud".

      Oh man, you had me going there for a second. I almost thought you were serious.

      Let's all go back to using a typewriter to file our taxes, and when my small-town radiologist wants a consulting opinion on my X-ray, lets have a courier drive it into metropolis for him. He can use a quill to write down his diagnosis and seal the letter with wax and a stamp from his ring.

    11. Re:Sure... by Nutria · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Keeping your personnel files on paper and not the computer?

      Of course, there's always keep your personal shit off the company servers!!! And keep what you do write in company documents at a professional tone.

      That would sure have mitigated a whole lot of personal pain by these supposedly blameless Sony employees.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    12. Re:Sure... by jeffmeden · · Score: 5, Informative

      He is phrasing it incorrectly. The attacks are scripted and BLIND. They don't attack X and skip Y if X is vulnerable. Or attack Y if X is not vulnerable. They attack A - Z regardless of the success or failure of any single attack.

      That's not entirely true. It's not clear how many other targets the miscreants who hit Home Depot, Target, etc had, but they did a lot more than scripted attacks (they used social reconnaissance, then spear phishing, then multiple point-of-entry probes, for starters) in order to get inside, and once inside they put a hell of a lot of work into pulling off their attack, and mixed that with a ton of luck in order to actually succeed. The Target hack actually would have been dead from the start if Target trusted their FireEye consultants who tried to warn them of the impending data theft.

    13. Re:Sure... by DougOtto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, security is a cost center, not a profit center. That doesn't sit well with the MBA types. Security does not support the success of a business in any obvious way - so we have to use metrics to show value.

      --
      Solving Unix problems since 1989...
    14. Re:Sure... by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1, Troll

      > climate change is a spurious pseudoscientific theory spurred from flawed mathematical models and unsupported by actual data

      You've slipped into an alternate reality, created by oil companies and the Republican politicians that work for them, and swallowed whole by right-wing extremists who actually call themselves "free thinkers."

      It's hilarious and sad at the same time.

    15. Re:Sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      ...as opposed to figurative typewriters and figurative paper?

    16. Re:Sure... by ganjadude · · Score: 2

      on the other hand, that would take care of the unemployment problem!

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    17. Re:Sure... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Apparently the person I replied to, and the admin for sony's system is a "fucking moron" otherwise they wouldn't be in the mess in the first place right?

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    18. Re:Sure... by khasim · · Score: 3, Informative

      From what I've read, the Target crack was funnelled through a 3rd party HVAC company that did not secure their systems sufficiently.
      http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/02/target-hackers-broke-in-via-hvac-company/

      They may have done more AFTER the scripts gave them access. But it appears that the scripts gave them the initial access.

    19. Re:Sure... by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 2

      Don't knock it it creates more little middle managers who will fight to keep their meager power and title.

      There was one project I worked on where there were people who's job was to go over each morning and pick up a pile of paper that had been printed out from one computer system and then go and type it into another computer system. There was enough push back from shitty little middle managers who realized that the project would end their little fiefdoms that the project got canceled. If your job can be replaced by some wire and a router you really should have been retraining for a new job years ago.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    20. Re:Sure... by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      " they’ve had their most personal conversations—gossip, medical conditions, love lives—exposed."

      This boggled my mind. I know that some people use their work email to explain their medical conditions to HR, but wow....

      Basic rule of email: It's not private.
      Basic rule of corporate email: Don't put anything in it you don't want the management team to read.

      If you're discussing something about your love life in this day and age, why on earth would you use corporate email to do it??? Use your personal phone, or fire up webmail.

      And yeah; personally confidential documents shouldn't be stored on the intranet or in "the cloud" of a business; that's where *business* data is supposed to be stored.

    21. Re: Sure... by cloudmaster · · Score: 1

      A million times THIS.

    22. Re:Sure... by random+coward · · Score: 1

      Why not? You could batch program it for delivery twice a day.

    23. Re:Sure... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Every. Fucking. Hospital. Everywhere.

      The only thing that keeps this from being a problem is that the gory details of most people's lives are really not interesting to anybody and they are hard to monetize. I would imagine that hospitals and clinics around Hollywood have been hit multiple times. If you are a 'high value target', ie, nobody here on Slashdot, I'd be worried.

      Very worried.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    24. Re:Sure... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Really. This. How hard is it NOT to flame people on a COMPANY EMAIL system? Even if some hacker doesn't get to you, your boss or some HR flunky might. Leave the immature conversations to places like Slashdot. It's what we do ....

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    25. Re:Sure... by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      That is completely different from air gapping any SSN type information. Nobody disagrees that you should only be professional in your conduct at work.

    26. Re:Sure... by mlts · · Score: 2

      There is a balance between going back to paper and double-entry books versus putting the whole thing so close to the Internet that a single compromised box can make it easy for an attacker to slurp everything down. There are also tools to help separate data, but yet allow people to do their daily jobs.

      VDIs come to mind. If one can serve up apps from different desktops, a user can have an external Web browser, internal Web browser, E-mail, the internal finance application, with appropriate separation between all of them.

      On a different level is putting assets behind Citrix or RDP. The user can manipulate them, but doesn't have access to fetch the files. This helps limit potential damage, the worst thing being RATs, next would be screenshot snappers/keyloggers, but again, the signature of a RAT should be detected by the network IDS/IPS, especially if that network doesn't allow access to the external Internet other than through an application.

      So, there is a balance between unfettered Internet access and a complete airgap, with security maintained. As an extreme, there is always moving back to a text terminal emulator and using SSH or even a 3270 emulator as opposed to going all the way back to paper and pencil.

    27. Re:Sure... by lgw · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's easy to be self-righteous. I used to see it all the time from member of the Christian religion- most of whom weren't really that familiar with scripture. It's no more appealing seeing the same attitude from members of the new Global Warming religion, most of whom aren't really that familiar with the science.

      Climate models may one day mature to something beyond the basket of hypotheses they are now, but none of them have yet been successful in predicting climate data, except where the null hypothesis also predicted that data. The science doesn't justify your arrogance. I wouldn't call it "pseudoscientific", but it's far from certain as well, and the actual predictive models (as opposed to hand-wavey claims) aren't yet well supported by actual data.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    28. Re:Sure... by Nutria · · Score: 1

      Nobody disagrees that you should only be professional in your conduct at work.

      Nobody except all of the Sony employees who weren't!!!!

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    29. Re:Sure... by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      What's the alternative theory/model then?

    30. Re:Sure... by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Why not? You could batch program it for delivery twice a day.

      All inter-company email slowed to twice a day batches. Every exchange with an external consultant or contractor; every conference call meeting confirmation, everything... goes out at noon and 5 pm?

      What issue exactly would twice a day batches even solve?

      In a company where you were in charge upper management would literally crucify you, and the regular employees would cheer them on.

    31. Re:Sure... by Nutria · · Score: 1

      Costs would increase, but so would employment of less skilled but competent workers.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    32. Re:Sure... by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      Data protection is off the table. How about data obfuscation? A nationwide program to hash SSN's. Mandatory'expiration dates' to delete old emails. Providing an im option that doesn't logmuch, so employees can have those random convos that shouldn't go by email. Even an offsite company for the most sensitive stuff, like an external lockbox for medical records.

    33. Re:Sure... by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's important for Sony pics to allow access to personal webmail from company phones and computers?

    34. Re:Sure... by gweihir · · Score: 1

      There are no useful metrics for black-swan events. That is why messing this up must come with a huge personal risk for those in charge.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    35. Re:Sure... by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Look at the historical data.

      It should jump out at you that the past 10k years of relative climate stability is an anomaly, and that rapid (on geological scales) swings in temperature and CO2 are the norm. That whole system is not well understood, though I believe solar variation is the leading hypothesis right now. On a scale beyond a century, there's just no reason to expect climate stability in the first place.

      On a decade by decade scale, there's no evidence of warming in the 17 years of reliable satellite temperature data. The null hypothesis - that average temperatures aren't changing - has actually been the best predictor of climate data since the late 90s, odd as that may sound.

      The simple fact is: the atmosphere and oceans are chaotic systems, with a variety of positive and negative feedback loops, quite difficult to model, and you can't talk about climate change in a scientific way without doing so. There are no obvious conclusions to draw, as the system we live in is simply too complex for hand-wavy, back-of-the-envelope calculations to be interesting. We may simply lack the technology today to do this science properly. That's not a reason to stop - we built the LHC, proof we can do some fucking impressive technological advancement to achieve a scientific goal. But it is a reason to avoid arrogance.

      Climate science is at the phlogiston / aether / Freud stage right now. That's fine, every science must start that way, and the scientific method works given time. But for goodness sake the lay believers are very much like a religion right now, complete with a list of sins and a Hell to roast in, and that's taking it too far!

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    36. Re:Sure... by poetmatt · · Score: 2

      You're talking about air gapping the wrong system.

      There needs to be an air gap between executives and computers. They need to never be allowed to breach it, because they are completely fucking stupid. Sony is so inept I don't even get how they are allowed to do business. This is such a lack of security compliance for a for profit that I imagine compliance auditors are drooling by now.

      Is it unique to them? not even remotely. Is it their own fault? about 99.9%. 56 hacks in 12 years is not a company who understands technology. It's a company with about as much technical knowhow as the musical artists they represent.

    37. Re:Sure... by poetmatt · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Security very much is a profit center. Go ask how much this hack is costing sony (supposedly millions just from the production costs alone), and then ask how much actual security would cost.

      The difference is in zeroes. Many of them.

    38. Re: Sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      For a company as large as Sony, you can't reasonably expect there not to be professional gossip, random chatter, and other personal information in emails. People talk. Managers ask questions about attendance, or care about a recent medical issue. It's fun on Slashdot to talk about how superior we are, and that we do it all by the book, but companies are comprised of real living people.

    39. Re:Sure... by mythosaz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Costs would increase and quality of care would decrease.

      You're clearly onto something here.

    40. Re:Sure... by skids · · Score: 2

      People just cannot resist the ease of communication. Email is the crack cocaine of IT security.

      I've always maintained the most devastating payload a worm could have would be forwarding random things from sent-mail to random receipients in the contacts list, considering how so many lead incredibly dishonest lives.

    41. Re:Sure... by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      How is this relevant to protecting someone's SSN on the network via air-gapping?

    42. Re:Sure... by Pope · · Score: 1

      I have friends who still use their work email for everything, despite having had smartphones for years. It boggles the mind.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    43. Re:Sure... by Pope · · Score: 1

      "If we don't spend $X on security, including training, it will cost the company $Z if we get breached. Up to you."

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    44. Re:Sure... by chihowa · · Score: 2

      And those zeros are differences in the cost of (a lack of) security to Sony. Unless you're selling security, it does not generate revenue (and thus profit). Hence cost center vs profit center .

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    45. Re:Sure... by ZeroPly · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. Security is NOT a profit center. If you think it is, then you are not understanding what the term "profit center" means. A profit center for a decentralized business generates revenues as well as incurs expenses. Most IT departments are not profit centers BY DEFINITION.

      --
      Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
    46. Re:Sure... by Alrescha · · Score: 1

      "If you air gap email and financial systems, you're stepping right back into the mid-1900s."

      But it's not all or nothing; I 'airgap' some things at home, in the sense that I keep all my financials on a separate computer than the one I play on. Its turned on and connected to the network only when it has to be (it does get connected, so its not really airgap). There is plenty of middle ground.

      A.

      --
      ...bringing you cynical quips since 1998
    47. Re:Sure... by chihowa · · Score: 1

      If that's true, then every legitimate aspect of a business is a profit center (including the custodial services, etc) and the term loses any useful meaning. Really, the term was coined by Peter Drucker, the father of a failed management style, (who later referred to it as, "One of the biggest mistakes I have made."). It is currently only used by cartoon-grade MBA types to differentiate sales departments from support departments for the purposes of inflated bonuses and compensation.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    48. Re:Sure... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      employment of less skilled but competent workers.

      There aren't many of those. If they are competent, they get skills pretty quickly.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    49. Re:Sure... by orgelspieler · · Score: 2

      Except my medical insurance is provided by my company, so all of my insurance claims are filed here at work via email. Employees have access to a benefit network that includes divorce/marriage/psych/legal counseling. Registration for these services goes through our local servers before getting to the service provider. so much for your sage advice.

    50. Re:Sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Security is risk management, which isn't a profit center. It's a cost center, just like insurance. Sure, maybe that insurance pays off one day and prevents a major loss, but that doesn't make it a profit center. Profit centers sustain cost centers, and cost centers sustain profit centers. They're both necessary to run a business, and you can't dump all your resources into profit centers while neglecting cost centers. No one should be indignant at having their field called a cost center, if they have wise executives who see that cost centers are an integral part of keeping the ship afloat. They wouldn't axe insurance (a cost center) or junk their lease (cost center) to work on street corners and expect employees not to jump ship; likewise, wise execs don't skimp on security and hope not to get hacked.

    51. Re:Sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Mandatory 'expiration dates' to delete old emails.

      Didn't the IRS recently institute a policy similar to this with the date being "whenever someone asks if we're breaking the law"?

    52. Re:Sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Seriously? Keeping your personnel files on paper and not the computer? And you think getting checks is slow now? BWAHAHAHAHA

      The idea is a bit more sophisticated than that. 99% of the data in personnel files is low to no value to others, it is only PII (personally identifiable information) that matters to thieves. Turns out, most PII is write-once, read-rarely. For example, your SS# is only needed a couple of times a year. Your date of birth isn't really needed at all once you've been hired and everything established.

      So the proposal is to stick that read-rarely PII and put it on paper or maybe on a fully air-gapped system.

      It isn't perfect, but there is no perfect solution. But, we need to stop computerizing everything just because we can and start making smart decisions that take into account the value versus risk trade-off.

    53. Re:Sure... by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 2

      This could actually be a good thing. The existence of security breach insurance would necessarily require quantifying how much risk a particular organization creates. The insurer is now a third party that has an incentive to make sure the company is following best practices and the ability to punish companies that don't (through denial of coverage or through increased premiums).

    54. Re:Sure... by mysidia · · Score: 1

      There is no good business reason for you to have my social security number on your computer to write out my paycheck.

      99% of the information in the personnel file is stuff not used but once or twice a year that nobody has any legitimate business looking at.

    55. Re:Sure... by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      A cost to reduce another *potential* cost is still a cost, not a profit.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    56. Re:Sure... by dbIII · · Score: 2

      With respect, the phlogiston theory worked apart from the oxidation of iron. Noticing this shortcoming was one of the things that led to the discovery of oxygen.
      However using it as a comparison to the current state of climate science, which more than a century ago got as far as identifying El Nino/La Nina, is a gross insult that I'm sure you wouldn't want applied to your field (or I to mine, which is not anything to do with climate just like yours is not). What's worse is it looks like you are just repeating second hand from a fucking economist that calls his field a science yet pretends that a long established geoscience is not.
      We went to the poles a century ago to understand more about climate. That's a lot of resources to do something like that and a science needs to be taken seriously for that to happen, and it was. It's apparently all about refining models these days and not a stab in the dark like the political talking points suggest.

    57. Re:Sure... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Yes, a consequence of a fucked up health system where your workplace is involved in medical insurance at all - that's why Sony etc shoot a lot of films in Australia, Canada etc where they don't have those expenses from having to worry about employees health other than if they can turn up or not.
      However, there are also fucked up HR requirements that are creeping into workplaces. Drug testing of employees has extended from just people who handle explosives to anyone that HR think could be involved in some sort of accident or in some dysfunctional workplaces just about anyone. That's data that should not be anywhere where it could get out into the wild but it's treated casually, sadly like just about all HR data in most places. I've had to tell a HR person to stop using fucking Dropbox for such confidential information at one workplace. All their friends they shared mp3 files with could also get to the drug test results of the company employees.

    58. Re:Sure... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Profit requires revenue, and security generates NO revenue for most companies.

      So, a company's money-making, walk-up retail storefront isn't a profit center?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    59. Re:Sure... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      How did the above get marked insightful?
      Do we need a remake of the "Wargames" movie to illustrate that compartmentalism is a good idea?
      It used to be standard practice. A steel mill I worked at in the 1990s did not skip a beat when a virus infected all the office PCs because the office PCs had read only access to the monitoring network. Think of it like static web pages that you can ask for but you cannot change. The office PCs could ask for anything on a list of reports but could not control anything or get anything that was not allowed information. To change anything you needed to get on the phone to someone who had spent years getting to know what they were doing and who knew how many thousands an hours downtime was going to cost.

    60. Re:Sure... by dbIII · · Score: 2

      The Bagel worm came close in that it resent old email - sort of amusing seeing people's reactions to that when something they had dealt with months ago appeared to resurface. It also sent empty print jobs to every printer it could find.
      Walking in to a place with all the printers spewing out blank paper and several people arguing that they had already done something so why the nagging by email reinforced my view that MS were selling toys that people were mistakenly deploying in offices.

    61. Re:Sure... by jeffmeden · · Score: 2

      From what I've read, the Target crack was funnelled through a 3rd party HVAC company that did not secure their systems sufficiently.
      http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/02/target-hackers-broke-in-via-hvac-company/

      They may have done more AFTER the scripts gave them access. But it appears that the scripts gave them the initial access.

      Where did it actually say that? They know the credentials given to Fazio were used to access the Target systems as the point of entry, but they don't know how the miscreants came into possession of them. The most likely method was a spear phishing attack that allowed a keylogger on to one of the PCs at Fazio. It's simply too far fetched to think that someone trolling with a script happened across Fazio, then just realized they could use it as a backdoor into Target, and then also be in possession of some very sophisticated malware that, oh gee look, matches the Target POS systems exactly down to the firmware rev number.

    62. Re:Sure... by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      But you can mitigate the hell out of it, I suggest air gapping.

      Yes. Lets air-gap the email system. That would work well.

      I've long advocated, but never implemented, having a VM just for email. This wouldn't protect from social engineering via email but its better than having the email client on the desktop itself.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    63. Re:Sure... by lgw · · Score: 1

      With respect, the phlogiston theory worked apart from the oxidation of iron. Noticing this shortcoming was one of the things that led to the discovery of oxygen.

      Exactly. And aether made a lot of sense. And Freud had to start somewhere. None of that was bad science, that's just what early science looks like. We've just since the late 90s had the technology to seriously contemplate climate modeling, and only really in the past 5-8 years has the vast parallelism needed to do it well been available from more than a couple of research computers.

      Again, just as it's a mistake to call it "pseudoscience", it's a mistake to believe than any of these early models in the first generation of a new science are particularly worthwhile. Certainly Climate Science is a field that needs more funding and research for decades to come. But just as certainly, it's not a fucking unfallible font of religious truth, and people who act as if it is are as annoying as the SJWs.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    64. Re:Sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised you haven't been horribly flamed by the time I write this (only 3 weak ones as I type). To deny global warming exists at all is stupid - we know it happens, and we know it has happened without human intervention. If global warming did not happen, I would currently be typing this under a mile of ice, and alternately under an inland sea.

      I am skeptical about the scope or scale to human component to global warming. (Note I said skeptical, not denying). A typical volcanic eruption of the size of Mt. St. Helens releases as much green house gasses as mankind does in 100 years since the industrial revolution.

      I would also be more accepting of these models, if they could accurately predict, well, tomorrow. These climate models are effectively extensions on current weather predictions. Yet today's weather predictions consistently given me wrong info for the next hour, let alone the next day or week. I'm to trust these same people to predict what happens next year, decade or century?

    65. Re: Sure... by lgw · · Score: 1

      Look, CO2 is like a blanket on the bed. Making it thicker makes you warmer. You wish to deny this?

      I'm sorry, your answer must be in the form of a car analogy.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    66. Re:Sure... by demonlapin · · Score: 2

      They have to use it to report your income to the IRS so that you can be properly credited for your Social Security earnings and taxes withheld on your behalf. I'm all in favor of eliminating withholding and forcing everyone in the country to pay quarterly estimated taxes, but we all know that isn't going to happen.

    67. Re: Sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I used to work at a hedge fund where I knew all of my communications were being monitored. I used to drop things in just to trigger the lawyers - it could be a little fun.

    68. Re:Sure... by hermitdev · · Score: 1

      There are days where I do not have mod points, and this ^^^^^^^^ is it.

    69. Re:Sure... by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      The people employed at that storefront to provide physical security for the goods might be necessary to enable the profit-making portions of the business to operate, but that doesn't mean they aren't a cost center.

    70. Re:Sure... by jelizondo · · Score: 1

      Tell it to the Iranians. (hint: stuxnet)

      As the hacker borg say: "You will be pwned"

      --
      Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. - Cardinal Wolsey
    71. Re:Sure... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      How about the display cases that hold the jewelry in the store?

      How about the cash registers?

      How about the front door?

      Is every last bit of overhead inside a profit center a tiny, microscopic cost center?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    72. Re:Sure... by dbIII · · Score: 2

      Your ire is aimed at something that was well established when Thatcher spoke about it. It used to be supported by the conservative side of politics until it became politically expedient to pretend that an evidence based approach was inferior to gut feeling.

      Once again, pretending that experts in a very long established field, well over one century in this case, in some way have nothing that they can assert is real calls into question the idea of expertise in general. That's the road to mediocrity that we are following. First it was denouncing educated clergy versus anyone that could pick up a bible, be loud, charismatic and declare the San Francisco earthquake to be the judgement of God, then it was geologists for suggesting the earth has changed since creation, then biologists for daring to suggest life has changed since creation, now climate scientists for daring to suggest that it hasn't been dry in Texas forever and that changes have been observed. Such loonies made up the numbers and were grafted onto conservative politics and suddenly it wasn't conservative any more. I get that you want to cheer for your team and that all team dogma must be accepted without question, but it does make otherwise intelligent people pushing their politics into other people's science look bad in a variety of ways.
      It's become a mindless proxy for politics just like gun control and abortion. The issues are not considered at all, once you've chosen a side the dogma is defined. If voting in the USA was compulsory you'd have more choices, they'd be less polarisation and less need to stick with party dogma on key issues. If that happens less of the posters on this site would look like hopelessly naive idiots with no idea about the issues they say they are discussing.

    73. Re:Sure... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      Security IS a profit center, because it's part and parcel of actually doing everything that generates profit.

      go look up (learn!) what profit center really means. clearly, you don't know, and you should not be acting like you know, either.

      profit center is when you DIRECTLY generate revenue. security only does that for security vendors (firewall boxes, etc). your security team is a COST.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    74. Re:Sure... by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Yes. If you could replace any of them with a lower-cost alternative that worked as well, or that saved you more than the cost differential, you would.

    75. Re:Sure... by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      On a scale beyond a century, there's just no reason to expect climate stability in the first place.

      Especially with large carbon emissions such as during the PETM or now. In any event, the graph you reference isn't really useful for century by century analysis as each small marker is 10,000 years. If you were particularly keen eyed you might be able to reach conclusions on a millennial basis - but the lines are so thick I doubt even that's reasonable At best I can see is that there are short term spikes.

      On a decade by decade scale, there's no evidence of warming in the 17 years of reliable satellite temperature data.

      Actually there's lots of evidence for warming in the last 17 years. If you are thinking of the 'hiatus', this marks a period where warming of the air-surface barrier (where we live) is less rapid than models predicted. There is still warming, as evidenced by the fact that we keep breaking global temperature records on a month by month and year by year basis. We just thought it'd be a few tenths of a degree warmer (it's been rising 0.05K a decade rather than 0.12 it had previously been doing since the fifties). Hence 'hiatus'. But warming half as quickly is still warming, and pick a slightly different start point to measure from, and the hiatus disappears. source

      There are no obvious conclusions to draw, as the system we live in is simply too complex for hand-wavy, back-of-the-envelope calculations to be interesting.

      This is not really a fair comparison to how the science is done is it?

      There are some obvious conclusions to draw. We can measure the energy entering the earth's atmosphere from the sun pretty well. We can measure the energy escaping back out pretty well too. There's more coming in than going out. Unless we're themodynamic skeptics too, the conclusion seems pretty obvious.

      Climate science is at the phlogiston / aether / Freud stage right now.

      That would be where it was in the 19th Century. Now it is at the weather predicting stage. The system is chaotic and specific long term predictions are difficult, but the physics doesn't lie. We can either ignore what we know and hope something 'chaotic' will sort out the problem, or we can act on the best information we have right now with a degree of tentativity reasonable for any such endeavour.

    76. Re:Sure... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      So inside a retail store are thousands and thousands of tiny little cost centers? Does that mean that the retail store is also thousands and thousands of tiny little profit centers?

      Or would a rational person perhaps look at the store as a profit center because it makes money, despite having overhead costs like ... the screws that hold the front door to its hinges? Or is each of those screws a cost center, in your view?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    77. Re:Sure... by skegg · · Score: 1

      No, you're wrong. *Accountants* consider security to be a cost centre.

      If we extend your analogy, then entire companies are profit centres, including the cleaners. (Because if the place was a mess with rats everywhere, then business couldn't be conducted.)

      The decision to classify something as a Cost Centre or Profit Centre is an accounting one.
      I mean, sheesh

      "A cost centre is part of an organization that does not produce direct profit"

      (emphasis added)

    78. Re:Sure... by dcollins · · Score: 1

      But the definition of "profit center" is a department, which if treated as an entirely separate business in terms of its revenues and costs, turns a profit. Clearly if security earns no outside revenue than it can't be a profit center.

      A better analysis is that the thinking about profit centers is "One of the biggest mistakes I have made... The only profit center is a customer whose cheque hasn’t bounced.” (Peter Drucker, who coined the phrase "profit center").

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_center

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    79. Re:Sure... by lgw · · Score: 1

      Well, let me know when we actually get to the weather-predicting stage. I look forward to that. But I think we'll get fusion first, and maybe spelling and calendar reform.

      or we can act on the best information we have right now with a degree of tentativity reasonable for any such endeavor

      Oh ho! A moderate. Are you sure you're on the right site? Surely you meant to say "global warming is a hoax!" or "repent your sins of carbon emission, no economic sacrifice is too great!"

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    80. Re:Sure... by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      Air gaps aren't what they used to be. These days, even desktop computers have WiFi and Bluetooth. I guess you'd need to work in a Faraday cage as well...nice.

    81. Re:Sure... by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > Well, let me know when we actually get to the weather-predicting stage

      Considering that "the weather predicting stage" has existed throughout human history, with the prediction of the seasons and planting nad harvest and migration times based on both astronomy and local environments, I'd say we've been at the "weather predicting stage" for all of human history. Given the evolution in the last century both explaining and predicting weather well enough to provide a daily prediction, I'd say we've been gotten considerably better at it.

    82. Re:Sure... by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > Nonsense. It only doesn't sit well with the fictional, cartoon-grade MBA types that IT people like to conjure up as straw men

      And the personnel reviewing the bid I made for a security enhancement last week. They were very clear about it, and we were both very clear on the lost productivity of a "secure" system that would consistently lock employees out of email during off-hours and calling on after hours staff they did not have to do the work.

    83. Re:Sure... by Crazy+Taco · · Score: 1

      No, foo. It's called basic common sense -- keeping confidential medical records, SSNs, and personnel files in paper format only, and not allowing them to be scanned or placed in a system connected to the general business intranet, or "the cloud".

      That really seems like unnecessary effort. Why go all the way back to paper when you could set up computer systems in a back room on an isolated network, which is not connected to any other network (especially the Internet)? Then it's air gapped pretty nearly as effectively as paper, and you could get all the advantages of computerization without having to deal with the pain of paper only records. And if you are really worried about physical security, like thumb drives walking off, just put good physical security around the room with multiple locks on the door, with the keys to each lock spread among multiple people so no one can be in there alone copying data.

      To me, that seems like a lot more effort than most companies would be willing to go to. Certainly it's a lot more painful because employees can't go in and update their personal records on their own remotely (things like W4s, address changes, etc). But it's a far better option than going all the way back to paper.

      --
      Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
    84. Re:Sure... by lgw · · Score: 1

      I predict that tomorrow, there will be weather! Yeah, that's not what people mean by predicting the weather. Sure: the 24-hour weather forecast is better than random guessing, but it's still not much better than looking at the sky, and a barometer. And the 5-day forecast? Accuracy isn't in it.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    85. Re:Sure... by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      Yes, a consequence of a fucked up health system where your workplace is involved in medical insurance at all - that's why Sony etc shoot a lot of films in Australia, Canada etc where they don't have those expenses from having to worry about employees health other than if they can turn up or not.

      Um, just speaking as a habitual freelance Sony Pictures employee...

      1) "Sony" doesn't shoot films, it contracts with production companies to distribute the films independent producers produce. People who actually go out and shoot movies are invariably employees of the production company, not the studio: everyone that worked on the production of The Amazing Spiderman was an employee of Laura Siskin Productions, not Sony Pictures Studios. People in post-production are often studio employees but they're freelancers who get their health benefits from...

      2) Most of the people that actually work on movies are union, and the American film industry unions operate their own jointly-administtered HMO. The employers (the producers and studios) never have access to heath information.

      3) I don't know anyone who handles explosives, but I've never heard of anyone ever getting a drug test on a crew. And I've worked wit pyro guys who I KNEW were perma-stoned.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    86. Re:Sure... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      As I asked another poster: is a company's retail store a profit center? Are the locks on the front door part of that profit center?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    87. Re:Sure... by iluvcapra · · Score: 2

      Sony is so inept I don't even get how they are allowed to do business. This is such a lack of security compliance for a for profit that I imagine compliance auditors are drooling by now.

      I work at Sony Pictures on and off, ironically about two years ago the studio went through a huge ISO 27001 compliance audit, it was a huge deal at the time. I've worked at all the major Hollywood studios and I'd probably characterize Sony as having the best physical security. I didn't work in IT so I don't know all the ins and outs of the computer system but FWIW only the PCs on the lot were affected by the hack, all the Macs and unix-like machines are still running business-as-usual over there.

      "Security compliance" obviously isn't going to be enough because widespread industry standards are woefully inadequate.

      56 hacks in 12 years is not a company who understands technology. It's a company with about as much technical knowhow as the musical artists they represent.

      That's if you count every company called "Sony." The movie studio, the music label, the games units, the different web and streaming sites, and the different electronics divisions are all basically different companies from an IT perspective (which is fortunate, considering how much damage this hack could have done if they WERE all just one IT establishment.) And this is just speaking of Sony America, which is the parent of Sony Picture Entertainment Group, Sony Music... Sony's a huge international conglomerate, you can't boil it down to some personification that's either stupid or smart.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    88. Re:Sure... by Mr.+Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, security is a cost center

      Security is a cost center in the same way that insurance is a cost center. It is a current investment to reduce the risk and impact of future losses. No sane large business runs without insurance, yet plenty treat security as an after thought even though they serve almost the same function.
      As a matter of fact I would predict insurance policies to require some security effort as a part of coverage fairly soon, since it could be argued that not securing your data is a form of negligence now a days.

      --
      Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the (supposed) good of its victims may be the most oppressive
    89. Re:Sure... by clovis · · Score: 1

      3) And I've worked wit pyro guys who I KNEW were perma-stoned.

      Do you happen to know if they're hiring?

    90. Re:Sure... by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      I suspect you are too young to appreciate the difference in weather prediction in the last 20 years, much less the last 50. Understanding of global weather patterns, satellite monitoring, and the ability to gather data from across an entire state and from offshore have profoundly improved storm prediction and especially flood prediction. And the information about mountain snowfall and rainfall is critical to flood reporting and planning.

      Even the daily weather reporting, with subtle temperature differences across a single city, is a profound improvement over my lifetime. The monitors simply didn't exist, with available communications and recording tools, to handle all the data. "Looking at the sky" is not enough to predict the size and timing of tropical storms, and certainly not enough to predict flooding anywhere near so effectively and usefully as it is now. If you farm, or if you transport cargo by ship or plain, these are _vital_ factors for every day productivity and safety.

      If you feel inclined to scoff, ask an old farmer or pilot or captain about the difference.

    91. Re:Sure... by cardpuncher · · Score: 2

      I don't know how Sony Pictures internal systems communicate, but I'm pretty sure they don't need to have direct access to world+dog in order to do so.

      What seems to have happened here is that by network-based manipulation of external firewalls, direct communication routes were established between malilcious hosts on the Internet and internal systems. You can avoid that and still maintain e-mail communication by relaying your mail over something other than TCP/IP between your internal-facing and external-facing systems, for example.

      And there are actuallly very good productivity reasons for restricting Internet browsing to dedicated computers on physically separate networks - it considerably reduces the amount of the day your staff spend on facebook and amazon.

      I'm amazed the "Internet of Everything" mentality still prevails. It was a utopian dream of the 1980s and 1990s but we now have very clear evidence of what happens in practice with universal connectivity - a dystopian nightmare in which governments and criminals are in competition to gain the most effective control over people and commerce.

      Perhaps we can ask Sony Pictures how their present productivity is looking compared to, say, RKO?

    92. Re:Sure... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Of course, there's always keep your personal shit off the company servers!!!

      So now blaming the victims of state-sponsored terrorists gets +5 Insightful. Really?

      Bad things happen to people who don't deserve them. That can be scary, because it implies bad things can happen to anyone, including you. But blaming the victims only makes the situation worse, both by causing further suffering for them and also by helping the offenders excuse their actions.

      And keep what you do write in company documents at a professional tone.

      We have a name for the kind of organization that tries to remove the human element from the equation as thoroughly as possible: bureaucracy.

      The price of impersonal professionalism is always performing according to lowest common denominator. If you want efficiency, you have to let members of the organization keep each other updated on relevant facts, which in practice means gossip. Also, human need for social interaction is just as real as the need for food. If you disallow such things at workplace, you'll end up with hungry workers who're just counting seconds before they can leave.

      That would sure have mitigated a whole lot of personal pain by these supposedly blameless Sony employees.

      Yes, and participants of Boston marathon and employees working at WTC could had stayed home. Mass gatherings are obvious terrorist targets and WTC had been bombed once already. Do you really want to go that way?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    93. Re:Sure... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      As I asked another poster: is a company's retail store a profit center? Are the locks on the front door part of that profit center?

      Can you make the share price go up for long enough to cash your bonuses by separating those locks from the merchandise they're protecting on the balance sheet and cutting costs?

      Like one book on artificial intelligence once said: if you measure the effectiveness of a robotic vacuum by how much dirt it vacuums per time, the AI will do it in the most efficient way possible: dump its internal garbage storage, suck it up, and dump it again, ad infinitum.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    94. Re:Sure... by Nutria · · Score: 1

      So now blaming the victims of state-sponsored terrorists

      Who's to blame when your unlocked car is parked on the street and get's stolen? Both the thief and the foolish owner.

      which in practice means gossip.

      One word: telephone.
      Two words: water cooler.
      Four words: lunch at the deli.

      If that's not possible, then learn to criticize without getting personal. It is doable!

      Do you really want to go that way?

      Two more words: reasonableness test.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    95. Re:Sure... by mod+prime · · Score: 1

      You can't really call me a moderate based on my thinking we should proceed 'with a degree of tentativity reasonable for any such endeavour' without knowing what I consider a reasonable degree of tentativity for this endeavour :) Maybe ITER or something will get us to fusion quicker than we master long term weather prediction (the future of computing being another difficult field to predict long term), but we're doing pretty good at short term weather modelling as we are with short-medium term climate changes.

    96. Re:Sure... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      In other words, you don't have anything germane to say on the subject, just snark that's disconnected from reality. That's exactly my point.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    97. Re:Sure... by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 1

      Depends on who pays for the locks. If there is a separate department that pays for the locks, then yes, that's a cost center. If it comes from the retail store's budget, then no, it is paid by the profit center. Being part of a profit center doesn't mean you don't have costs. Being part of a cost center doesn't mean you're not involved in profit.

    98. Re:Sure... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Accountants look at the operating costs of a retail store as part and parcel of that store's profitability. Locks on doors, anti-theft devices on displays - those security systems and the people who maintain and support them are costs that impact the profitability of the store. Nobody running a real business pretends that the costs of operating that retail store aren't part of that store's profitability picture. Multi-store overhead (like, say, a loss prevention specialist who spends time at all of the stores) is still part of that store's P&L - her salary is charged to multiple accounts, so that each store's bottom line feels that cost.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    99. Re:Sure... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I don't know anyone who handles explosives

      I'm not in the film industry so I was mentioning a creeping corporate thing. First they tested the shot firers after a few accidents, but now it's crept to any contractor that goes out on site and in some mining companies it appears to be anyone in the city offices below a certain pay level. Given a few recent decisions in some places maybe testing for cocaine and similar should be done at the top instead, but maybe it's just trust fund baby syndrome at work and I can be thankful that I work for several clients instead of directly for them.
      Anyway my point is that given the nature of society you are going to lose a few people if you take a zero tolerance attitude, and some of those people may be far more useful than the HR people that are doing the removal. It's intrusive, counterproductive, and mucking about with bodily fluids on an industrial scale while attempting to keep costs low can get very unhygenic. It's also an encouragement corruption, for instance I've got a co-worker that was offered fifty bucks for his urine by a guy that only had to lay cables out in a paddock - no driving or other activities that are illegal while inebriated.

      As for (2), that's good news until the union's computers get hacked, but presumably they are both taking more care (since it's part of their "core business") and have a much smaller attack surface.

    100. Re:Sure... by EndlessNameless · · Score: 2

      So your suggestion is, let's keep all of our super important stuff on a front-end facing system in the first place.

      I never said that, but thanks for throwing an asinine straw man up there.

      They can probably lock things down better than they did, but I don't work at Sony and I haven't seen their network diagrams so I can't really say. But the idea of air-gapping financial systems for a company of Sony's size is mind-boggling stupid.

      Even something as simple as warranty work breaks down without automation. Every authorized repair depot needs some way to order parts, submit claims, and receive payment at an absolute minimum. If you air-gap the systems for that, guess what happens to time and cost of warranty repairs? And this is just one facet of the business.

      So right there, you have network-accessible procurement, payment, and personally-identifiable information (customer name/address and product serial number are typically included in warranty documentation). Waving the magical air-gap wand as a security fix means nothing if it fundamentally breaks the way the business operates.

      So yes, Sony probably fucked up somewhere. If they're like most businesses, there are probably multiple problems with their infrastructure. But pretending there's a simple answer is just ignorant and does absolutely nothing to advance the discussion or solve any real-world problems.

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
    101. Re:Sure... by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      More like poking fun at a business that still does that because of internal inertia.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    102. Re:Sure... by nobodie · · Score: 1

      How about you airgap your email and your email? As in separate business and personal? As in do your WORK at work and your personal away from work? it really isn't that hard boys and girls. Oh yeah, right, you link all your shit together so that you can do your facebook (sorry, i don't use it) and your G+ (I have 2, one work, one personal) etc. You think its hard, but because of my job a public request to see my email must be honored, so any of my colleagues who don't airgap their stuff get what they deserve.

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    103. Re:Sure... by Phronesis · · Score: 1

      I don't think I understand what you mean by "air gapping."

      Are you saying that employees should not be able to send email to computers located outside the company's headquarters, receive email from computers outside the company's headquarters, and or read their email without physically going to the corporate headquarters (e.g., no checking business email from the road, branch offices, or home)? If that's what you mean by "air gapping" it doesn't sound practical.

    104. Re:Sure... by Phronesis · · Score: 1

      Climate models may one day mature to something beyond the basket of hypotheses they are now, but none of them have yet been successful in predicting climate data, except where the null hypothesis also predicted that data.

      Wrong. Manabe and Wetherald predicted in the 1960s that greenhouse warming would cause the stratosphere to cool when the troposphere warmed, whereas increasing solar intensity (the null hypothesis) would cause both the stratosphere and the troposphere to warm simultaneously.

      The observed temperature trends agree with the greenhouse warming predictions and disagree with the brightening sun predictions.

      Subsequent modeling work predicted dozens of ways in which the greenhouse warming and brightening sun would produce different patterns (e.g., greenhouse gases would cause nighttime temperatures to warm more than daytime temperatures, whereas increasing the brightness of the sun with no change in the greenhouse effect would cause days to warm more than nights). And today when we look at the patterns of observed warming, they overwhelmingly agree with the greenhouse warming predictions and disagree with the brightening sun predictions.

  2. So which building will they blow up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    We are talking a proportional response right?

    Or maybe we can just send a few bloviating politicians over and throw in some mass drops of MP3 players loaded with Sony tunes on the country.

    1. Re:So which building will they blow up? by halivar · · Score: 5, Funny

      and throw in some mass drops of MP3 players loaded with Sony tunes on the country.

      There's no call for such drastic and morally questionable measures, yet; let's just try airstrikes first.

    2. Re:So which building will they blow up? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Or maybe we can just send a few bloviating politicians over and throw in some mass drops of MP3 players loaded with Sony tunes on the country.

      There's a North Korean who escaped to South Korea. He now sends balloons across the border with various messages. He's stated that he's planning on sending balloons with DVDs of the movie.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re: So which building will they blow up? by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      Oh, then you are just as stupid as these guys who think capital punishment is going to be a deterrent for drug kingpins. As if drug kingpins didn't live their day to day lives under the possibility of execution, and their executions are a lot less dainty than ours and tend to take place without the bother and expense of due process. So, my friend, if you want to start using American military strength as the arm of the Lord, you can do that. We're the only superpower left. You can conquer the world, like Charlemagne! But you better be prepared to kill everyone. And you better start with me, because I will raise up an army against you and I will beat you!

    4. Re:So which building will they blow up? by Dracos · · Score: 2

      Why MP3 players? Drop Sony CDs on NK to install a rootkit on every computer in the country.

    5. Re:So which building will they blow up? by Nutria · · Score: 1

      Do "regular" North Koreans even have DVD players?

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    6. Re: So which building will they blow up? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Did you know that two thousand years ago a Roman citizen could walk across the face of the known world free of the fear of molestation?

      Apparently Varus didn't.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    7. Re: So which building will they blow up? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I know that various different tyrants have claimed that to be true. That doesn't mean it ever was true. Politicians have always been liars. Dracula had it said about his kingdom, too, and there was a Persian Emperor who claimed that a virgin with a bag of gold could walk the entire lenght of the silk route unmolested. I never heard of one that tried.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  3. Official Conclusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nobody mentioned "The Interview" or North Korea until days after the attack, then it simply appeared from nowhere and asserted itself as the truth. The emails from the hackers are in the stash, and reputable sources who have time to read such things have reported that not a single email from GOP prior to the release mentioned The Interview, only demands for money.

    1. Re:Official Conclusion by xaotikdesigns · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Step one: Extort a hell of a lot of money Step two: Wait for the press to guess who is behind it all Step Three: Take their wild guesses and run with them. Cause as much chaos as you can. Step four: While everybody is looking at the wrong people, gather up all the money/info you can sell, and disappear.

      --
      XDInd
    2. Re:Official Conclusion by Serenissima · · Score: 4, Funny

      Someone should hack Sony and then release The Interview online. I'd laugh.

      --
      Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. But light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
    3. Re:Official Conclusion by pesho · · Score: 1

      I am guessing that the official conclusion will be used to shield the Sony execs from responsibility for their poor security practices.

    4. Re:Official Conclusion by NetNed · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Add to it that Sony is NOT an American company, that the scripts used had HARD CODED passwords and network routes in it, plus the amount of people Sony laid off this year. The whole thing is utter bullshit and the FBI latched on to it for some reason, most likely PR or to use it as an excuse to stomp on US citizens rights. I can't believe on so many tech site that have people that have knowledge of networks and security you still have people that believe the whole thing and investigate it very little.


      Now we have douche bags like Bruce Schneier and Kevin Mitnick saying that the technology doesn't exist to stop these attacks. The author of Applied Cryptography first main point is that they shouldn't have made racist comments about President Obama or insulted its starsor (what ever the fuck that means)???? WTF???? How is that even part of the story of a so call security expert talking on the attacks? Gee wouldn't the first logical conclusion be that if they used simple encryption on their emails then even if stolen the attackers would have found the email files useless?


      I'm sorry, I'm sick of the "experts" insulting our intelligence with stupid comments that are pretty easy to see as nonsensical. The are either paid shills or make comments like those to keep their business revenue flowing.

    5. Re:Official Conclusion by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Perhaps Bruce Schneier was saying something different. It sounds like he was saying that you, personally, have no way to protect yourself from your employers shitty security practices. I still disagree with him, to an extent. If anyone read the emails on my business account the worst they would get would be terminal bordom. But if you're doing business with someone, you can't protect yourself against their shitty security practices...and you can't even tell that they have any without criminal liability. Credit card numbers lost because someone you did business with was hacked isn't something you can protect against.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    6. Re:Official Conclusion by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      Of course, somebody DID hack Sony and released Fury and Annie, but not The Interview, suspiciously.

      This is sorta why your hack-based transparency is always doomed to fail -- it doesn't show the truth, it just shows what the crackers want you to see.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  4. Company's email system. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "blameless random employees who were just using their company’s email system. Because of that, they’ve had their most personal conversations—gossip, medical conditions, love lives—exposed."

    If you had personal conversations—gossip, medical conditions, love lives in your work email, then it was not private anyway.

    1. Re: Company's email system. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, there's the rub. They were at Sony, and being good employees many were using Sony phones which synced up completely with their servers. So, even though they were using a personal device *with* their work email, their work effectively had access to all of their personal correspondence too by nature of their personal data being backed up, because why not?

    2. Re: Company's email system. by freezin+fat+guy · · Score: 1

      Funny how Sony has never shied away from hacking into users' data but as soon as the shoe is on the other foot it's a national crisis.

  5. Sony security: strong or weak? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Something not much discussed, if outsiders were able to liberate "terabytes" of data from Sony Pictures, just how good was the corporation's computer security? There's been a lot of outrage over the data theft, but did it happen despite Sony's protective measures, or because of them.?

    1. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'd be interested in knowing the details of the attack. Was it a "social engineering" attack of some kind (ie. a virus-laden email that someone with high privileges opened)? Was it a vulnerability in their networks? I've heard someone with high level admin privileges had their account hacked, but in what way was it done?

      The organization I work for is a contractor for the government of a North American jurisdiction, and yesterday morning I started getting reports that some sort of virus-laden emails were flowing out of this government's networks. Sure enough, within a half an hour, I got emails from a contact I have within this particularly agency, with an attached ZIP file with an SCR file inside. That has to be one of the oldest ways that malware has been transmitted in Windows system, I saw my first virus-laden SCR file somewhere around 1997-1998.

      Apparently this critter is so new that by the time we checked, only a few AV companies had caught on to it. Even worse in some ways is that it appears that it made its debut on the very government servers in question, making me think this was a targeted attack. So you have a combination of a brand new virus of some kind that won't get caught by the scanners, lax email rules that allow the opening and execution of executable file types (not that blocking EXE variants doesn't mean some bastard won't be firing off a compromised PDF at an unpatched system), and users who through a combination of laziness and ignorance happily take the final step.

      With this particular attack, there would have been no problem if Outlook had been configured not to open these kinds of attachments, and in an Active Directory environment, that's pretty trivial, so some of the blame has to go to this government agency's IT team. But still, even with the best safeguards, where users just happily click on any old attachment, it doesn't exactly take a rare alignment of the stars to have malware planted in a network. Sure, it won't have root privileges and won't be able to propagate itself via more sophisticated means, but it appears in this case it didn't need to.

      So I do agree to some point that there are finite limits to what any person or organization can do to secure itself against a determined and directed attack. But there are ways to make such attacks much more difficult, and more quickly captured before they wreak too much harm.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      This is the right question to ask! IT security st Sony must have been exceptionally bad. Large flows of data from inside to outside is what is most interesting. Competent attackers will only export the minimal amount of data needed, because data export ("data leakage") is the activity with by fas the highest risk of being detected. That "terabytes" were exported shows that there basically was no working security in place and also that the attackers were not very good at this as they did some very risky things.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by Etcetera · · Score: 1

      There is also the fact that this isn't Sony's first time on this ride. Shouldn't they have doubled-down on security after PSN got hacked?

      You're supposing that "Sony" is a single massive thing -- it's not. It's a conglomerate with many separate units that share relatively little other than a name and some discounts at the Sony Store.

      Proof: The hackers have done nothing outside of Sony Pictures. If there'd been interoperability in the layer that they got into, we'd be seeing data from other "Sony"s out there as well.

      SOE/SMSS/SNEI learned a lot after what happened in 2011. But a movie studio that deals mainly with corporate accounting to pay actors and production companies, and the occasional internal creative discussion, has a far different calculus to make on what to secure how than an Online Game company, or the one handling end-user billing (read: PCI) data for a storefront (PSN).

      You're going to see a giant top down review come out of this, of course, but implementation will probably still be handled by individual corporate units to some extent.

      Sony wasn't attacked because they were vulnerable or had particularly lax security, they were attacked for political reasons by a foreign power. I guarantee you that if Viacom has been producing The Interview they would have had a similar attack against them and would probably have fared little better.

    4. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by Etcetera · · Score: 1

      Something not much discussed, if outsiders were able to liberate "terabytes" of data from Sony Pictures, just how good was the corporation's computer security?

      How many bytes of data did Snowden liberate from the CIA? If the CIA couldn't stop it, then this does not inherently say anything bad about Sony's corporate security.

      That's Schneider's point -- NO organization can totally prevent data hacks and folks skilled in security know this.

      I wish I had mod points... I'd mod you up.

    5. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by DarkOx · · Score: 2

      You do have to cut them a little slack, here. If we were talking about a coal mining company or something and terabytes of data going out the door would be pretty unusual, and SEIM systems would be trained to flag that sort of thing.

      This is Sony Pictures, though, terabytes probably go out the door all the time. I mean that might be less than a few hours of uncompressed video going to a contractor for post processing or something.

      No my bigger question having done this kind of thing for a living now for some time is why would a basically purely IP organization not have effective controls in place, to know what kind of data is going out the door and to put a hard stop to it the moment something that should not be there is spotted.

      Ok you can't maybe do that with the aforementioned video data, but you certainly can watch for byte patterns that look like address, SS numbers, e-mails in usually great quantity etc on the wire.

      You certainly do not allow anything encrypted to go out unless you MITM it. Could an attacker do something like slap some mpeg headers on top a big encrypted data stream? probably, but they'd have to know to do it.

        If my entire world was IP like Sony Pictures id probably take it a few steps further make sure my firewall devices knew the common container formats for various media types and continued to make sure sync bytes and frame markers occur where they ought to, anytime more than a hanful of megabytes of something I can't recognize flowed it would alert and some form the CERT team would pick up the phone a call whoever it was associated with that source IP. No attribution shut it down, no explanation shut it down.

      The hardware and software to do this is commercially available, more or less off the shelf and has been for at least five or seven years now.

         

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    6. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'd be interested in knowing the details of the attack. Was it a "social engineering" attack of some kind (ie. a virus-laden email that someone with high privileges opened)? Was it a vulnerability in their networks? I've heard someone with high level admin privileges had their account hacked, but in what way was it done?

      I can't find the story, but if i recall correctly, the short version is that the hackers probed Sony, couldn't get in, then started targeting affiliated companies until they found a remotely exploitable vulnerability.

      Once they breached that company's network, they found cached(?) credentials for a top Sony sys admin account and used that to access the US Sony intranet.

      They mapped the intranet, spread malware all over the place, exfiltrated ~100TB over the course of a ~year, then changed everyone's screensaver and went nuclear with the wiper attack.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    7. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      No. Really not. They messed up to an extreme degree. They do not deserve any "slack", they deserve to be crucified. Sure, they have large data-flows, but these need to go via controlled channels that look at what gets transferred. Transferring thousands of emails? If that does not raise several red flags, then they either have nothing in place or what they have is fundamentally broken.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    8. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by NetNed · · Score: 2

      This tells a lot about what was first reported and how the actual claim of it being North Korea was fabricated. Most interesting is the line "Among the more than 11,000 newly-released files are hundreds of employee usernames and passwords as well as RSA SecurID tokens and certificates belonging to Sony". Ahhhh yea I'm going to say North Korea wasn't involved in the least in this......... Former employee(s) seem about a million times more likely.

    9. Re: Sony security: strong or weak? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      That is a big "if" there at the end.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    10. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      In your own post you listed a half dozen mistakes the IT organization made. I don't know how Sony's hack was done. But..

      a) Is there any reason attachments shouldn't be sandboxed?
      b) Is there any reason that executables should ever pass through?
      c) Is there any reason that end users should be able to run an arbitrary executable? If PDFs are going to execute from email why not have that environment sandboxed?
      d) Is there any reason servers should be compromised just because clients are?
      e) Is there any reason they aren't running internal security on their network?

      etc...

      That sounds like they did a dreadful job.

    11. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      Apparently this critter is so new that by the time we checked, only a few AV companies had caught on to it.

      What this shows yet again is that anti-virus scanners are a flawed methodology. There will always be a delay between a virus being released and the signature updates getting to the clients. It's inherent in the concept.

      Unfortunately, some early technology journalists were partially responsible for this because, in reviews, they ranked anti-virus products that identified threats by signature higher than ones that identified threats through behaviour -- and this was because signature analysis also provided a name to the threat. In other words, the flawed idea that if you tell the user a name for the threat, you provide better protection than if you just block it. This reinforced the concept of signature analysis and slowed down research of identification of threats based on generic behavioural patterns.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    12. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by Cramer · · Score: 1

      If you're talking about cihosting? They didn't have security guards. And all the hand scanners and man traps in the world won't do you any good when thieves use a chainsaw to cut their own doorway from the hall.

      (If I recall, ci's breakin was with a reciprocating saw.)

    13. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      If there's a way in and not enough to identify intruders it doesn't have to be a former employee.

    14. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      If we were talking about a coal mining company or something and terabytes of data going out the door would be pretty unusual

      Business as usual for decades, but on tape and USB disks mostly. Seismic data sets can be large.
      I get your point though and there's enough paranoia that some day a rival may get the information by mistake that any large transfers to somewhere new are likely to be noticed.

    15. Re:Sony security: strong or weak? by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      If your mail system doesn't strip out executable content from attachments (especially the low-hanging fruit like EXE, DLL, SCR, etc.) -- then your IT folks need to be beaten with a clue bat.

      Heck, that rule should have been in place almost two decades ago at this point once the various VBS / SCR trojans first started hitting mail user's inboxes.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
  6. You can stop those type of attacks by mrlinux11 · · Score: 2

    Security is not easy, but it can be done. But most companies like security theater it's cheaper, until something like this happens.

    1. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Security is not easy, but it can be done

      Probably not. Do you think your Linux box has no vulnerabilities? (hint: it does). Even if you run OpenBSD (which still has vulnerabilities), are the employees at your company going to use a browser? That will have vulnerabilities, too.

      Which brings us to the biggest security vulnerability, employees. Remember that the most valuable information a company has isn't the root password, it's the documents and emails the employees are working on and have access to.

      So not only do you need to have a perfectly secure operating system (which doesn't exist), you're also going to need secure employees. Good luck at that.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Indeed, it can. You do not need to have absolute security at all (which is what amateurs routinely demand), just enough to demotivate attackers and make them go looking someplace else.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by gweihir · · Score: 1

      All you need is security good enough to keep the attackers out. The trick is to find what level that requires. Asking for "absolute security" just shows that you have no clue how security works.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    4. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      All you need is security good enough to keep the attackers out. The trick is to find what level that requires.

      Against a targeted, skilled attack, there is no level that is good enough to keep them out.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      OK, so we need a layered system of defenses. I don't disagree. That's still not enough to keep motivated, targeted, skilled hackers out, which is the case in the Sony attack.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. You have no clue.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    7. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      You have no clue.

      Well that's definitely not true lol

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    8. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by gweihir · · Score: 2

      You said "no level". Ever talked to somebody that handles highly classified data in some TLAs? No, did not think so. Sure, it is expensive, but you can keep any and all types of attackers out if you invest enough and have the right people defining processes and implementing controls, except for those attackers that can come to you and break down your door or those that can plant people with you long-term. This "there is no way to protect yourself" meme is just BS for the uninformed and has nothing to do with professional risk-management.

      What Schneier is talking about is the setting of a large, commercial enterprise that must be profitable. And even there you can keep all that would find your data commercially valuable out, you just need to understand the business aspects of security. True, against resourceful fanatics, that may not be enough. But Sony did clearly not even have the basic level of protection they needed in place. My take is this was some random group of big-ego-mediocre-skill hackers that got lucky and that are now grand-standing. Remember LulzSec? If they were still active, this would be right up their alley.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    9. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      But Sony did clearly not even have the basic level of protection they needed in place.

      True, Sony could (should) have made it a lot harder.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    10. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      That's true, but it also should not be too hard for a company of the size of Sony Pictures to set up a network in a way that allow one to quickly detect traffic to C&C servers that's not supposed to exist.

    11. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by Cramer · · Score: 1

      Perhaps. But the real key is detected when they've gotten in.

    12. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by dbIII · · Score: 1

      If the attack surface is very small those motivated, targeted, skilled hackers have very little to work with.

    13. Re:You can stop those type of attacks by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      That's true, which is part of the secret of OpenBSD. Note they say on the OpenBSD website, "very few remote exploits," not "very few exploits." Once users have access to userland, a privilege escalation exploit is bound to be found.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  7. Don't use your company email for personal business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ding! Problem solved!

  8. Blameless Random Employees? by xaotikdesigns · · Score: 3, Informative
    I thought they got the admin credentials. If they got the admin credentials, then it's probably someone's fault for not ensuring that there was a good password policy, or that they made sure that only the right users had any kind of admin rights.

    Likewise, how long does it take to download 100TB of data? I'm guessing that this was probably something that took a bit of time to pull off, and they probably should have found something while all this data was flying out of their system.

    --
    XDInd
    1. Re:Blameless Random Employees? by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      With the amount of data moving in/out of Sony daily, I doubt it would be noticeable. If done right nobody would see this happening at all

      As for admin password policies and picking the right people... it's all rubbish. You can never pick the right people. You can only pick the least at risk people if that's even your choice as a CIO. Sometimes the worst person to give admin passwords to are the leaders, yet if they come to you asking for it you'll hand it over.

      The fact is that until you get targeted by an elite group of hackers (don't know if this is the case here), you won't know if your systems are secure enough.

    2. Re:Blameless Random Employees? by Malizar · · Score: 2

      I am sure their password policy is one of those "You have to change your password weekly, cannot use the same password you ever used before, must contain a random assortment of letters, numbers and symbols." kind of policies that makes people write their passwords down on a note under their keyboard.

    3. Re:Blameless Random Employees? by BUL2294 · · Score: 1

      And who isn't to say that, as part of the hack, once they found someone high enough with the right credentials, they didn't create a couple of AD accounts? In mid-size organizations, identity management is dealing with thousands of accounts, having to create numerous exceptions for specific people and applications (oh, this Task Scheduler task can't allow for the account to change--and it needs super-duper-Admin rights to these particular servers; this Windows Service that runs on the production CRM server can't change password). So, a hacker could just hide some new accounts with fake descriptions for applications in-house (e.g. "SQL-Salesforce sync"), give them super rights even allowing for password changes, and presto... Or worse, pick such a valid account and start adding servers it has rights to. Security by Obscurity (ironically on the security platform).

      --
      Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
    4. Re:Blameless Random Employees? by speedlaw · · Score: 2

      or throw the keyboard against the office wall...and then write the password on a post it note pinned to the screen

  9. Blameless employees? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    it happened to the blameless random employees who were just using their company's email system. Because of that, they've had their most personal conversations -- gossip, medical conditions, love lives -- exposed

    If you were using your company's Exchange server for gossiping and thought it was safe (i.e. the IT department would never have access to this, oh no) then you're stupid and deserve whatever fate you get.

    I can sympathize with the people whose SS numbers were stolen out of no fault of their own. But Amy Pascal making Obama black jokes on company email was just stupid as hell and she deserves whatever scorn people will heap on her.

    1. Re:Blameless employees? by itzly · · Score: 1

      Social security numbers should never have been used as secure tokens.

    2. Re:Blameless employees? by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      There are legitimate requests made via email that can be problematic for the individuals. Please don't dilute the legitimacy email because a few odd emails go offside.

      FYI. By default only the user can view/edit his emails on Exchange UNLESS the IT grants himself permission. This is why large corporations perform security auditing to see if their own admins are granting themselves access to restricted data.

    3. Re:Blameless employees? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Grant, view, revoke. On demand.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    4. Re:Blameless employees? by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      And then fired because of security audits recorded it. That's what security audits are for.

    5. Re:Blameless employees? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Right, because admins don't have access to log files. If the admin is competent, the audit will only show their current access and any past access they want you to see.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    6. Re:Blameless employees? by quantaman · · Score: 1

      it happened to the blameless random employees who were just using their company's email system. Because of that, they've had their most personal conversations -- gossip, medical conditions, love lives -- exposed

      If you were using your company's Exchange server for gossiping and thought it was safe (i.e. the IT department would never have access to this, oh no) then you're stupid and deserve whatever fate you get.

      I can sympathize with the people whose SS numbers were stolen out of no fault of their own. But Amy Pascal making Obama black jokes on company email was just stupid as hell and she deserves whatever scorn people will heap on her.

      People spend a lot of time communicating with co-workers and generally become friends of some kind, it's pretty natural that they'd make jokes. And if your primary form of communication is over email it's natural you'll joke over email as well, it's not stupid as much as human nature.

      And I don't see what makes the jokes offensive. Sure in the wrong context they're racist, but there's no reason to think they were using a bad context. This just feels like one of those incidents where a politician says something dumb and everyone wastes a newscycle trying to be offended by it.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    7. Re:Blameless employees? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      If you were using your company's Exchange server for gossiping and thought it was safe (i.e. the IT department would never have access to this, oh no) then you're stupid and deserve whatever fate you get.

      You've just written off a huge portion of the population. Since it also applies to mobile phones etc you've probably included yourself in that portion.

    8. Re:Blameless employees? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      This is why large corporations perform security auditing to see if their own admins are granting themselves access to restricted data.

      Do a bare metal recovery drill and you've got all that access. No problem you say, your admins don't do such things and are not prepared for the loss of a server, so you'll be fine.

      If you can't trust the people with physical access to the equipment with the data on it then you have the wrong people.

    9. Re:Blameless employees? by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      If that's the case then you aren't setup properly for security audits. There are ways to control this and to be notified LIVE or said changes.

    10. Re:Blameless employees? by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      If you can't trust the people with physical access to the equipment with the data on it then you have the wrong people.

      That's an acceptable statement for small corporations but for large enterprises or corporations with outsource IT, its necessary to have security auditing as you cannot completely trust all your staff (Especially the ones you do not control). People change over the course of their employment. Some staff that may have been trust worthy may develop a sense of entitlement and power. This isn't always obvious to the naked eye. This is why one keeps live tabs on security changes. There is plenty of solutions out there to do this and all this secured from the admins themselves.

      The same way call centers monitor their calls (as a deterrent for bad behavior), IT should monitor their staff's activity ESPECIALLY as the security access level.

    11. Re:Blameless employees? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      That's not an audit, that's an intrusion detection mechanism. You can't redefine industry standard terms to make your argument.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    12. Re:Blameless employees? by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      Regardless you knew it was possible so why did you argue?

    13. Re:Blameless employees? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      We weren't talking about IDS, we were talking about audits. I wasn't arguing, but rather pointing out, for those who may not realize, that audits alone do not catch competent attacks.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    14. Re:Blameless employees? by dbIII · · Score: 1
      You got to trust them between audits though don't you? You also have to trust the auditors.
      Once again, if you can't trust the people with physical access to the equipment with the data on it then you have the wrong people. It doesn't matter how many people you've got, if you have a lot of people all you can do is trust them with a limited amount each.

      I suppose a perception problem here is from people coming into the middle layer of workplace on graduation instead of doing low level jobs as a teenager or student and so not getting an understanding of workplaces from several levels. I may have to be blunt. Whoever cleans that place has the keys to the kingdom and can fuck the place over with theft, arson etc in any room, and has plenty of time after hours to break into any room that they don't have a key to, so you have to be able to trust them not to do such things. The same applies to people with the keys to the kingdom of computer networks, server rooms etc. That's one of the reasons system administrators get compared with janitors, they require the same level of trust so you need people that can be trusted in such a role.
      There is no effective way to watch them apart from after the fact so depending on audits is not enough.

      There is plenty of solutions out there to do this and all this secured from the admins themselves.

      There are plenty of salesman that promise such things, however, who is going to have the access to set it up and then how are any of these things going to stop someone with physical access to the equipment? You have to trust somebody in the chain. Just like that guy you've never thought of who cleans the floor with a bunch of keys in his pocket is trusted with full access to the entire building.

      So my entire points are:
      Somebody is going to be able to get access to anything you can think of in the place, data and/or physical.
      Those people had better be people that you can trust.

      It applies everywhere. All you can do in large places is divide it into compartments and have decent supervision.

    15. Re:Blameless employees? by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      I appreciate your opinion even if I don't completely agree.

      There are plenty of salesman that promise such things, however, who is going to have the access to set it up and then how are any of these things going to stop someone with physical access to the equipment?

      This is where you get to thin the herd. Instead of 15 people with access you may only have 2. In addition some of these solutions are managed by 3rd parties which means the local admins have no access at all to the remote logs (A perfect system as far as I'm concerned). All the local admins can do is disable the service but that will only trigger a phone call to get it back on and possibly an investigation by the higher up.

      Fact is that no ones job should go unmonitored especially when it comes to security. I have a friend who works in a gold processing plant and every single time they leave the building they are stripped of their lab close and searched. If gold processing labs warrants this it's because people when given an opportunity may take it. This is just as true for IT admins with access to sensitive data.

    16. Re:Blameless employees? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I'd say just like you have to accept that those people have access to gold, and take steps, you have to accept that some people will have access to all the sensitive data and take steps. It can be compartmentalised but I'd say at some stage you have to accept that everything has some support staff that can get to it. I don't think that's too far from the view you are expressing.

  10. Which is why by koan · · Score: 1

    I ask the same question again, why put this stuff online at all? Why are critical systems for infrastructure online? Why is anything of any importance for our government and nation available to the general Internet?

    The only answers I've come up with are either cost related or they want them to be targets.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    1. Re:Which is why by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      I'm assuming that Sony, being a very large multinational company, has a very large Intranet, which means at various points its going to be traversing the open Internet at various points.

      Unless you're advocating Sony lay down its own fiber and then turn off its gateway routers....

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:Which is why by koan · · Score: 1

      What I'm saying is don't put anything you don't want to lose out there, there are ways of dealing with this safely, though admittedly inconvenient.
      The fact that there is concern for SCADA (and other) systems that are critical is another gigantic "duh" from the security stand point.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    3. Re:Which is why by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      I ask the same question again, why put this stuff online at all? Why are critical systems for infrastructure online? Why is anything of any importance for our government and nation available to the general Internet?

      Because that's how the information gets from (wherever it is stored) to (the people who need to access it). The Internet is popular for a reason, and that reason is that it helps people get things done quickly and cheaply.

      The alternative, of course, is to have the information and the people physically co-located, so that they can access the information only via an isolated network (or by physically sitting at the computer the information is stored on).

      However, the benefits of remote access are so great that in many cases it's seen as being worth the risk of allowing it. Whether or not that assessment is correct or not depends on an estimate of how secure the networks are, but also on an estimate of how aggressive, competent, and numerous any hostile intruders will be. Clearly it's possible to get both of those estimates wrong, but I'm not sure that a knee-jerk response of "pull all the Ethernet cables and return to the 1950s" is going to be a practical solution either, as doing so would likely cause as much disruption as an actual attack.

      I'm not sure what the solution is, but probably one good practice would be a lot more red-teaming -- i.e. if your network is vulnerable to intrusion, it's much better to learn how a friendly intruder got in (by asking him) and fix the hole than to pick up the pieces after a hostile intruder nuked your network.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    4. Re:Which is why by random+coward · · Score: 1

      Its purely cost. But the blowback will likely be the breaking off of the whole internet instead of the removal and correct configuration of these networks.

    5. Re:Which is why by dltaylor · · Score: 1

      Then you're doing it wrong.

      Everything that passes through wires outside of your building should be in a VPN, or equivalent. In reality, most of what passes through wires INSIDE your building should be in a VPN, too. Anything over WiFi is broadcast to the planet, and treat it as such.

    6. Re:Which is why by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      It wasn't "out there." It was "in there." They had the compromised credentials for a top-level system admin, and spent months on the internal network collecting goodies before laying waste to the system.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    7. Re:Which is why by koan · · Score: 1

      Which shows you how vulnerable and incompetent Sony is, or who they hired for security.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    8. Re:Which is why by koan · · Score: 1

      Store everything offline, air gap, then the person calls in when they need the information and it can be transmitted to them at that time over an encrypted link with various other security protocols enabled (changing passwords often, large passwords or phrases, security cards, tokens, etc).

      Storing it online makes it a target and you're begging for it.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    9. Re:Which is why by koan · · Score: 1

      Nobody dismissed shit you stupid fucking AC, READ.... COMPREHEND...

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    10. Re:Which is why by koan · · Score: 1

      Oh and I almost forgot, if it is accessible via the "Internet" it is "out there" not "in there".

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    11. Re:Which is why by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      So, all VPNs are "the internet?"

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  11. Re:You can for the most part. by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Yeah, because Flash drives are such a secure way to move data...

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  12. Why the FBI thinks it's North Korea by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Informative
    We shouldn't just believe the FBI, but here's what they've revealed of their evidence so far:

    While the need to protect sensitive sources and methods precludes us from sharing all of this information, our conclusion is based, in part, on the following:

    * Technical analysis of the data deletion malware used in this attack revealed links to other malware that the FBI knows North Korean actors previously developed. For example, there were similarities in specific lines of code, encryption algorithms, data deletion methods, and compromised networks.
    * The FBI also observed significant overlap between the infrastructure used in this attack and other malicious cyber activity the U.S. government has previously linked directly to North Korea. For example, the FBI discovered that several Internet protocol (IP) addresses associated with known North Korean infrastructure communicated with IP addresses that were hardcoded into the data deletion malware used in this attack.
    * Separately, the tools used in the SPE attack have similarities to a cyber attack in March of last year against South Korean banks and media outlets, which was carried out by North Korea.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:Why the FBI thinks it's North Korea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Here's the underlying problem, despite all this: You have to trust the FBI. Sorry to say, as a common American, I don't! As an IT professional, it's plausable, but until these sources and evidence are validated by independent 3rd parties, N.K., like every other possible culprit, is just that. A suspect.

    2. Re:Why the FBI thinks it's North Korea by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between trusting in the government not to snoop on it's citizens and trusting in the FBI's competence in tracking down crimes of this matter. Question their methods, but I'd advise you not to question their competence. I don't think they'd risk undermining their credibility as one of the world's leading forensic and criminal investigation units to place blame where it doesn't belong. What's their motivation to lie and damage their credibility? North Korea doesn't exactly pose a major threat to us, nor are they constantly in the news here in the US.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    3. Re:Why the FBI thinks it's North Korea by Dr.Syshalt · · Score: 1

      In other words, Saddam's WMDs strike again.

  13. Re:What? by mccrew · · Score: 3, Funny

    If they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't worry. Who cares about their boring lives?

    ... said the Coward who posted anonymously.

    --
    Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
  14. You can at least make it hard for them by gweihir · · Score: 1

    For all we know, Sony did invite this attack and opened its doors wide for anybody wanting in. At the very least you can make this hard for the attacker and add a high risk if early detection. Saying "you can't protect yourself" is sending entirely the wrong message.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:You can at least make it hard for them by thoriumbr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He knows what he is saying. He said that if you are targetted in a high-skill, high-focus attack, it's basically game over.

      It's like defending yourself from a random mugging on the streets and surviving a professional hitman. You can make it harder to be attacked by a random hacker or a unfocused hacker, but it's impossible to defend yourself from all kinds of attacks of a very skilled hacker focused on attacking you.

    2. Re:You can at least make it hard for them by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but if you're doing the tech equivalent of flashing large bills around while walking through the bad part of town, you'll be vulnerable to a lot more people than if you actually have a clue.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    3. Re:You can at least make it hard for them by gweihir · · Score: 1

      While even that is not really true, who said these attackers where high-skill? That they copied terabytes of data points squarely into the low-skill area, as this is an activity with an extreme risk of being noticed.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  15. Re:Isn't Sony a foreign company? by bsDaemon · · Score: 2

    Because Sony Pictures is an American subsidiary of the Japanese conglomerate, which was based in the US and the majority of the affected employees were US citizens or at least Residents?

  16. BS by Charliemopps · · Score: 1, Informative

    Complete nonsense.
    I keep reading about this attack, like it was magical...
    Then there's an article on Slashdot today about programming being a superpower?
    I'm starting to think this entire thing was designed to have this very affect.

    So what's next? The government protects us? We need more electronic surveillance?

    Hacks based on Zero-day exploits are hard to protect against. But they are smash and grabs, and once you see the data leaving, you shut things down until you can patch. But this Sony thing? They had basically complete control over their entire infrastructure. No hack would ever result in that kind of control unless Sony basically had no protection or planning at all. Which is what I think this was... Sony being completely irresponsible. The fault here is with Sony. Yea, the hackers are bad guys to... but there's absolutely no reason they should have gotten what they did. In particular the Executive that had the entires companies Salary in an XLS document on their hard-drive should be fired immediately.

    1. Re:BS by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      No hack would ever result in that kind of control

      Disagree.

      Lets face it the reality is lots and lots of BIG companies use things like Active Directory. Lots of this BIG companies might even have only a tiny handful of Enterprise Admins, who may even be very good at what they do. Chances are they have centralized and integrated the authentication against AD. Its not uncommon for Network infrastructure administrative interfaces to use an authentication gateway like say NPS (RAIDUS for AD).

      So if you could get that Enterprise Admin access, well it might be a house cards from there. Given the recently published MS14-068 it might not even be that hard: https://www.trustedsec.com/dec...

      So if you can get your foot in the door, however you do it just grabbing some tools off git hub and few blogs can get you near total ownage without having to do much of anything in the way of exploit development on your own. Consider this vuln was an off cycle patch put out in November, think there ~4 weeks on there are some big orgs that have lead times to get Windows patches applied to DCs longer than that? I would bet so, think an org like Sony stands a chance against a vuln like that when its an unpublished zero day? So get any access to the network at all, brute force one password for basically any user account crack a hash sniffed off the wire etc, and boom your a member of any windows groups you want!

      Frankly I would not be surprised given the timing if MS14-068 was involved in the breach and I would not be surprised to hear of other major compromises thru leveraging it.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    2. Re:BS by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

      Yes your 100% correct if you know your conversations are being monitored and still put your personal thing in it its 1000% your fault. NEVER use a Free google service ever because everything you do is collected and saved. BUT there is no guarantee paid software is not collecting data behind our backs or holes left for the NSA,FBI,CIA,IRS. Anyone using any cloud service paid or not paid can bet there ass there data is not safe. In fact nothing done over the internet is safe nothing. That means we should stop using the internet for anything except gaining knowledge and sharing knowledge. All business and personal conversations should be done using the US mail or telephone. Ive had my CC data stolen and used 3 times in the last year and a half doing nothing wrong that tells me i have only 1 choice left cash that's it. I cant trust Brick and mortar stores either as they are the reason my CC data was stolen because they choose to store my data unencrypted and unsecure. I trust no business anymore none and i do everything possible to be safe online it doesn't work. I will have to use a check or money order to buy stuff online and that sucks because i remember the days of Sears/JC Penny catalog buying, 4 to 6 week wait.

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    3. Re:BS by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Sony basically had no protection or planning at all. Which is what I think this was... Sony being completely irresponsible

      Along with a disturbingly large number of others. We're a million quick fixes down to the point where anybody who had the faintest clue about computer networks in the 1990s would laugh at such houses of cards as the work of newbies. Some mistakes are comparable to taking a group of high school girls on a prison tour without any guards in the prison, all the cell doors open, half the lights out and no roll call at the end to see if some girls are missing.

    4. Re:BS by rinka · · Score: 1
      just wanted to comment on this one:

      ..In particular the Executive that had the entires companies Salary in an XLS document on their hard-drive should be fired immediately..

      I have worked at a pretty senior level in a very large and global Software company. Here's roughly how the process of deciding salaries happens.

      1. We make a list of our reportees on a spreadsheet (and an upline manager can have over 300 reportees), add in various parameters and rank them.
        Once we've ranked and sync'd up with our managers AND with our peers, the data is uploaded into the salary tool. This is an online tool.
        However, we can (and do) download csv files from the tool - including past and proposed salaries since it is so much easier to juggle data in Excel.

        The reason I describe this process is - if my (or any of the other managers') machines are hacked while we are making the salary decisions, the hackers will surely get the salary data. The download is necessary since the Salary tool is not as flexible as looking at data in an xls. This is especially true when one is looking at the salary of a very large number of people. This, to my knowledge, is true for most large Organizations and based on your point, most senior managers of the organization hacked would get fired.
  17. No real need for updates, either... by BUL2294 · · Score: 2

    The other advantage of the air-gapped network is that you no longer "need" to update the computers within the network with most of the security updates that come across Windows Update. Build them from DVDs & SPs with known hash values, never having connected them. Who cares if those PCs are still stuck on Win7-SP1 or Win8.1 RTM. Their primary attack vector (e.g. the big bad Internet) is unavailable. Even if these machines are built with malware, the worst that could happen is that they get erased, but the data still doesn't go out.

    But what about e-mail? IM? Interwebs? Facebooking? Really??? Buy a 2nd, low end PC, wirelessly connect it to the corporate network, and volia! Hell, you could even use a KVM for this purpose, if you'd rather not spring for the expensive $400 laptops. Don't take the easy approach of connecting the networks in a way that only allows for RDP sessions--a determined hacker with unlimited funds (e.g. state sponsors) would figure that one out.

    But what about Adobe Cloud or whatever program needs to connect to the Internet? Most such programs have alternative options for air-gapped networks (e.g. a license server), and a company like Adobe could be brow-beat by a company like Sony into disabling phone home. For high-risk applications where you can't talk your vendor out of phone-home, it's time to look for a new vendor...

    --
    Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
  18. And the lesson is... by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

    ... email, and anything else you do on the internet or with your cell is not private.

    Never put anything in email, or text messages, or twitter or random internet forums that could potentially embarrass you or anyone you care about.

    Sad that this needs to be pointed out, but clearly it does.

    --
    XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    1. Re:And the lesson is... by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

      (I recently pointed out to someone whose mother I know that they wouldn't want their mother reading their twitter feed.)

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
  19. Re:You can for the most part. by H0p313ss · · Score: 2

    He forgot the next step, always burn the flash drive afterwards.

    That's why they're called flash drives right?

    --
    XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
  20. Schneier's Second Law by Marginal+Coward · · Score: 1

    From TFA: "Against a sufficiently skilled, funded and motivated attacker, all networks are vulnerable."

    Sounds like a good followup to Schneier's Law

  21. BS by Fnord666 · · Score: 2
    From the FTA:

    This could be any of us. We have no choice but to entrust companies with our intimate conversations: on email, on Facebook, by text and so on. We have no choice but to entrust the retailers that we use with our financial details. And we have little choice but to use cloud services such as iCloud and Google Docs.

    Bullshit. There's always a choice. It's often less convenient, but that's a far cry from not having one.

    --
    'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
  22. Definition: Secure systems keep working, no matter by raymorris · · Score: 1

    One way to increase that "expected gain" is to take a slightly wider view of what security is. Security is more than just locks and passwords - it includes defense against denial of service attacks, for example. A useful definition of system security is:

    A secure system is one that continues to work properly, even in the face of attack.

    An example is one of the most common security issues, SQL injection. My work place had a typical example:
    INSERT INTO users SET fname='$fname', lname='$lname';

    From a traditional security perspective, we worry about an attacker entering a "name" that includes quotes marks and such. However, the same issue also meant that things broke nicely when Tom O'Reilly tried to register, using his real name.

    Fixing that issue meant that attackers couldn't mess up the system - and the "random" errors in the system stopped.

    As another example, we provide a service called Clonebox. With Clonebox, if a customer's web server is hacked or otherwise damaged, we can switch it over to a ~read-only mirror. Sure that protects against hackers, and some customers have been hacked and used the protection. More often, customers simply screw up and delete important files or databases. Either way, they are protected - our customers' web sites keep working, even when they screw up, even when hardware fails, and even when they are hacked.

    So the pitch, and the cost/benefit calculation is this:
    How much is it worth to have systems that just keep working, that don't screw up, that handle any input gracefully?

    It can be good to ask that question right around the time some executives are cursing the current system.

  23. Re:You can for the most part. by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    they are if you encrypt them with pre-shared (in person) keys

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  24. Re:Definition: Secure systems keep working, no mat by tepples · · Score: 1

    SQL injection. My work place had a typical example:
    INSERT INTO users SET fname='$fname', lname='$lname';

    Apart from the fact that you're mixing UPDATE syntax with INSERT syntax, substitution is perfectly valid so long as each string has been sanitized in the correct manner for a particular database connection (that is, not addslashes()). For the MySQLi client library, it looks like this:

    $fname = $db->escape_string($fname);
    $lname = $db->escape_string($lname);

    Don't get me wrong; it's bad practice to escape manually unless you're using operator IN on a database client library that supports neither array parameters nor named placeholders (such as MySQLi). But code that correctly uses $db->escape_string() (or the equivalent for other languages or database drivers) should be safe from SQL injection, just as code that correctly uses htmlspecialchars() should be safe from script injection.

    With Clonebox, if a customer's web server is hacked or otherwise damaged, we can switch it over to a ~read-only mirror. Sure that protects against hackers, and some customers have been hacked and used the protection. More often, customers simply screw up and delete important files or databases.

    But how long do you keep these mirrors around, in case there's a screw-up that goes undiscovered for a while?

  25. Schneier [DIDN'T] Explain How To Protect ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... anything.

    TFA is a waste of time.

    There's no best practice revelations or stuff.

    It's just a repeat of what every news site and pundit has said already.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  26. Works in MySQL and MS SQL by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > Apart from the fact that you're mixing UPDATE syntax with INSERT syntax

    Works in MySQL and MS SQL, ymmv for any other RDMS.

    In regards to both escape_string() and htmlspecialchars(), two words: character sets.

    They are not fundamentally any better than addslashes(). They just have a bit more duct tape.

  27. Using purely circumstantial "evidence" by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    the FBI has officially concluded that the North Korean government is behind the attack.

    Due to the sensitive nature of the investigation, you'll have to trust us on this, just like with that other big thing 13 years ago.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  28. That's all very nice, but ... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I for one am waiting to hear what Bennett Haselton has to say.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  29. The levels of collusion are immense by s.petry · · Score: 1

    Like you, I want the facts. I have seen no facts that implicate the DPRK over the people who claimed responsibility initially (GOP). Wired had an article on it two days ago when the first stories started to attempt to pin the hack on the DPRK which has been ignored by all US and UK media. Not only have all US media outlets jumped on the "it was those dirty North Koreans" bandwagon, but the BBC has become complicit in this as well.

    I fairness, I was able to do some digging to find more information on the BBC that I could not in US media. Let me go through the evidence. and comment on each after that.

    Before doing so, let me explain something critical. In order to teach hacking, a person has to have access to the internet. This is a huge dilemma for the DPRK who has to risk any Internet access with the knowledge that the person with access _WILL_ see information damaging to their loyalty to the DPRK. There are no computer cafe's in North Korea where guys can go learn to hack to make a couple extra bucks, in fact unless you have explicit Government approval you can not have a computer. Even if you are a "tourist" you must have permission and you will not be able to take your laptop wherever you wish.

    This means that the only hacking that could come from the DPRK is Government sponsored, and the amount of hackers they have would be tiny. They don't have the money for "new" or unique equipment either, so any computer hardware they have is going to be 2nd hand junk that China no longer wants. What the Military has for hacking tools would be 2nd hand script kiddie tools or, provided by China.

    Not only does an extraordinary claim require extraordinary proof, but in this case US Politicians have lied so often I don't trust a damn thing I'm told any longer. Our "media" follows the scripts they are handed just like the politicians, and I don't trust them either. So here is the claim summary.

    First, the FBI says its analysis spotted distinct similarities between the type of malware used in the Sony Pictures hack and code used in an attack on South Korea last year.

    So we turn to another, better clue: IP addresses - known to be part of "North Korean infrastructure" - formed part of the malware too. This suggests the attack may have been controlled by people who have acted for North Korea in the past.

    That's it folks, that is all we have. The "Hacks" last year (actually since 2009) which were never tracked to the DPRK are the first reason they believe this hack was. Wow, that's quite a leap in logic. DarkSeoul is still anonymous and there is no evidence that links them to North Korea. Lots of claims that China is training and letting the DPRK use their resources, but no evidence that the group is even operating out of China. Finally we have IP addresses, which any Script kiddie knows to spoof with someone's IP address you hate! I'm positive that the FBI can not be that goddamn dumb, they have to realize IPs can be spoofed too!

    Ok, time to get off my soap box...

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:The levels of collusion are immense by keneng · · Score: 1

      All I see now is NATO propaganda making North Korea take the blame for the Sony pictures hack. Unless we really see the real data behind all of these events, we're all just speculating. Nothing to see here.

      Also note, if North Korea would have done this, they would have openly done it. They don't need to cloak or hide. They have neighbours which empathize with them and probably support them with their actions when they deem it fit to act or react to an event elsewhere.

      A shitty comedy movie won't be declared an act of war by another country. FBI and everyone else are smoking something too strong to think everyone is going to believe them. In fact most Chinese, Japanese, and South Koreans, North Koreans and Russians probably don't give a rat's ass about this "The Interview" movie or any news surrounding it. They are all too busy with their normal routines which don't revolve around watching American CRAP movies/propaganda. They are also too busy to watch Chinese/Korean propaganda.

      Life is difficult for the general populace everywhere on the planet, why escalate this bullshit? Focus on real planet priorities you bunch of fucking idiots! That goes for the GOP also!

    2. Re:The levels of collusion are immense by peawormsworth · · Score: 1

      The US government needs a scape goat. We live in a time where digital protection is largely avoided and even mandated away by law. Government agencies would like its people to believe that encryption in everyday computing is too difficult and will largely support criminal networks who wish to remain hidden. IMO: They say this in order to make their own investigations easier to accomplish and potential future domestic threats (like popular uprisings) easier to control. So if the blame for this and other hacks can be largely blamed on the government itself, by not encouraging and sponsoring corporate and personal encryption in our daily digital lives.

      The current government seems to focus on catching criminals and finding people guilty... rather than protecting the innocent. Whereas, the innocent is the majority. I would much rather have a govenment interested in protecting my privacy, rather than one trying to catch those who violated it.

      I do not believe that the Sony Hack came from N Korea. I have no way of knowing. But I suspect the actual perps remain unknown. But this is not good PR for a government who already has the all-seeing-eye across its own nation. It needs to defend this ability in order to keep it. So it picks and blames a group for this hack that we are already told to hate... a terrorist nation... a nation we would never believe anything they say, so they can never defend any false allegations. The last thing the government needs is a news story admitting that even with all the surveillance we allow our own government, that they cannot determine the source of such a large hack. So N Korea is a safe and easy pick and the movie they we about to release fits this lie so well.

      I would support any leadership that endeavours to make privacy a right. A good first step would be to outlaw storage of unencrypted private communications and ensure the keys are only available to the issuing and receiving parties. Also, issue government signed personal and individual encryption keys... so I could say... prove my identity online and talk to a lawyer over email without fear of interception by some mail storage company.

  30. Rule number 1... by jernejk · · Score: 1

    Rule No. 1 of corporate life:

    if you don't know everybody to know about it, don't put it in writing, ever. Yes, SMS/chat/whatever is writing. Even talking on mobile phone could be "writing".

  31. You forgot about remote desktop etc by dbIII · · Score: 1

    It's very easy these days to have all the accounting software on a separate machine to the one that downloads infected emails - consider remote desktop, citrix, VNC and X windows. If you had "understanding of modern IT" you would have considered them wouldn't you?

  32. Re:Let's Just Be Honest by sydbarrett74 · · Score: 1

    I agree with everything except the telecommuting bullet-point (with which I am in *qualified* disagreement. My qualification is that working from home should be OK, but only on company-issued hardware, with the restrictions you listed (e.g., disabled USB ports) and I would add the use of something like a Sonicwall connected downstream from your home ISP's gateway.

    --
    'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
  33. Your ideas don't stop the link click malware by dbIII · · Score: 1

    But still, even with the best safeguards, where users just happily click on any old attachment, it doesn't exactly take a rare alignment of the stars to have malware planted in a network

    The ones where there is only a URL and no payload astonish me - somehow just clicking on the link and letting IE loose on it is enough for the user to infect their machine with a virus. No "do you really want to run this thing as admin" box or anything - immediate infection with no other user interaction. Microsoft have been dealing with the internet for nearly two decades and such a thing can still happen with their software.

  34. Sure, I'll dispute your "CO2 blanket analogy" by Crazy+Taco · · Score: 2

    Look, CO2 is like a blanket on the bed. Making it thicker makes you warmer. You wish to deny this?

    Partially, yes, for three reasons:

    1. Your body is a heat source. Cover it with a blanket and you get warmer because the heat energy is trapped and cannot easily escape, and you body is constantly adding additional heat energy. By contrast, the Earth is not a heat source in that same way. Any heat it has is generated by an external body: the sun. It's like a rock sitting next to a fireplace with a blanket over it. Take away the fire, and rock is ice cold regardless of the blanket. Same with the Earth. This makes the CO2/blanket analogy very flawed, because the climate can be totally independent of the thickness of the blanket, and get much colder or much warmer based almost entirely on the current energy output of the sun.
    2. Secondly, CO2 is a tiny trace gas in our atmosphere. This is not Venus where it makes up the majority of the atmosphere. Our atmosphere is 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen, and everything else is a trace gas. People like to claim there has been a dramatic rise in CO2, but zoom the scale of your graph out, and you see that the "big jump" is considerably less than a fart in a windstorm. Right now CO2 makes up 0.04% of our atmosphere. 100,000 years ago it is estimated that it was 0.03%. So even assuming humans are 100 percent responsible for the 0.01% increase, it is extremely tiny. In your blanket analogy, you claim that making the blanket thicker makes you warmer. I would dispute that and say that it does not make you warmer if the blanket is negligibly thin. If a human is covered by a blanket that is 0.03% the width of an average thread, and you "thicken" it to 0.04% the width of an average thread, I submit to you that that is so negligible that you do not, in fact, find yourself feeling warmer from the thickening of the blanket. We really do need to keep our perspective on CO2 percentage and not commit fallacies based on graphs of CO2 concentration that are far too zoomed in to show context.
    3. Thirdly, we do not understand all the interacting, chaotic systems on our planet at all. We see clearly that CO2 percentage and temperature have both varied considerably over the course of the planet's history, but frankly, we really don't know why. Why should there be a difference between 100,000 years ago and 50,000 years ago? We certainly know humans didn't have anything to do with that. And because we can't say what the causes are, we can't say definitively that thickening the so called blanket leads to warming. Historically, we know that CO2 increased only to find that in later eras it decreased. This would suggest the planet has some kind of feedback/absorbtion systems that can at times remove CO2 and thin the blanket. We also know temperature can increase or decrease by large amounts naturally with no involvement from humans, and that temperature does not always move in sync with CO2 concentrations historically. In short, we don't understand the relationships between the CO2, temperature, and the systems on this planet, so even though a CO2 increase may lead to a temperature increase in an isolated system, we don't know that CO2 increase leads to predictably higher temperatures (or even permanently higher CO2 levels) in the highly complex planetary system of Earth.
    4. So yes, I wholeheartedly dispute your blanket analogy on the grounds that is a flawed analogy, and that we don't know enough about our planet to make any intelligent predictions or models at this time. Indeed, every model we have, when fed historical temperature data, says we should be at much higher temperatures than we are now. Most assume some kind of blanket model, but since none match our measured results, we can conclude that a simple blanket model does not match the complex reality of the systems on Earth.

    --
    Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
    1. Re:Sure, I'll dispute your "CO2 blanket analogy" by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      Actually, the blanket analogy is a good one. I'm writing this for you, Taco, as nobody else will be coming around here to read it!

      Much of the Sun's energy that hits the Earth in all wavelengths is absorbed and reemitted as IR (because the energy goes into heating the surfaces). Atmospheric CO2 does not block these incoming wavelengths, it only blocks the IR. This is the crux of the problem, and this is why small changes in the amount of CO2 make for large changes in the amount of energy radiated away from Earth.

      The problem with modern science is that we've passed the "intuitive to the layman" stage about 300 years ago. Modern discoveries such as climate modeling, statistics, orbital mechanics, quantum theories, and SR / GR are very non-intuitive to the layman.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  35. Excerpt from BSG by cookiej · · Score: 2

    "Galactica is a reminder of a time when we were so frightened by our enemies that we literally looked backward for protection..."

    ... and, of course ...

    "... But I will not allow a networked, computerized system to be placed on this ship while I am in command."

    We live in a world of Cylons.

  36. PHP itself by tepples · · Score: 1

    MediaWiki is written in PHP. Would you really prefer a world without Wikipedia?

    1. Re:PHP itself by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 1

      So you're stating that in a world where PHP was not invented, Wikipedia would not have been created? Doubtful.

    2. Re:PHP itself by tepples · · Score: 2

      More than likely, in a world without PHP, another language with similar benefits and drawbacks to PHP would likely have been invented.

  37. Pay for loyalty? by Rixel · · Score: 1

    How about paying a substantial fraction of what the CEOs get. Won't stop hacking, but while prevention is half the game, motivation would go quite a bit, I think. Personally, I am pretty sure a lot of these 'hacks' are just former employees that got screwed and was offered a whole bunch of money for very little knowledge by someone else. An NDA isn't Captain America's shield when the employee was pretty much broke anyways.

    --
    Never play chicken with a passive aggressive.
  38. Of course you can protect yourself by iamacat · · Score: 1

    Or at least your company can. Any network is vulnerable in the sense of someone wondering around campus and finding an an unlocked PC, but what you can do from there varies tremendously. Ideally, the company itself doesn't have employees' SSNs or banking information anywhere on it's network. Rather, this is handled by a payroll vendor that specializes in handling just that task securely and nothing else. Now you have a much smaller and constantly audited target to hit. Likewise, highly sensitive projects can be siloed in a way that most employees or intranet can not access them any easier than a random outsider.

  39. Watch for a huge increase in random surveillance by golodh · · Score: 1
    Just look at the gem of prose posted by New Ginrich (see [http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/18/opinion/gingrich-america-lost-cyberwar-sony/ ]) in which mr. Ginrich demonstrates great form in a piece of emotional hyperbole that simultaneously waves the flag, beats the war-drum, disses the current government, advocates piracy, and slyly suggests that national control over the internet is the way to go.

    Mr. Gingrich obviously never read Schneier's informative and professional response. Doing things like that would only slow mr. Ginrich down.

    No. Mr. Ginrich has made up his mind already and frames as war what is basically a combination of poor security (both protection and response were found to be sub-par), unprofessional conduct (mean-spirited, abusive, and racist comments), user stupidity (entrusting highly personal information to a company email system), and bad luck (being targeted by a persistent and capable attacker).

    The only way Mr. Ginrich can achieve his national cyberspace defense "Defending America against foreign enemies is the duty of the United States government." is to monitor all traffic entering and leaving the US plus all internal traffic, and being able to selectively cut any of it off on basis of suspicion alone. To use mr. Ginrich's words: "No one should kid themselves.". This is the only possible outcome if his ideas are adopted.

    It's like the NSA's dream come true. Not only will they be allowed to tap into everything, Mr. Ginrich's ideas (if adopted) mean that they will now actually be tasked to do that. Plus they get to design and implement some fine-grained kill-switch. Oh, can encrypted communications by private individuals be tolerated? Risky, that. Any non-government or non-whitelisted corporate entity that uses encryption could be a hostile nation in disguise, eh? best to put a stop to that right now. Or err risk "loosing the cyber war".

  40. How to protect yourself by Lost+Race · · Score: 1

    How to protect yourself from Sony-style attacks:

    Step 1. Don't be Sony.

  41. typo by dbIII · · Score: 1

    encouragement of corruption

    Or encourages corrupt behaviour.
    People resorting to criminal acts to get around new restrictions that were probably not worth implementing in the first place.