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US May Sell Armed Drones
An anonymous reader writes: Nations allied with the United States may soon be able to purchase armed, unmanned aircraft, according to an updated U.S. arms policy. Purchase requests will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and foreign military bodies would have to agree to a set of "proper use" rules in order for the U.S. to go ahead with the sale. For example: "Armed and other advanced UAS are to be used in operations involving the use of force only when there is a lawful basis for use of force under international law, such as national self-defense." These rules have done nothing to silence critics of the plan, who point out that the U.S. has killed civilians during remote strikes without much accountability. The drones are estimated to cost $10-15 million apiece.
Exporting weapons that wind up being used against our own troops is fairly commonplace in this scenario, but hey, it's all about the corporate profits baby!
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Drones are cool when only rich nation states can afford them, but it's only a matter of time before anybody can buy them, and payback will probably be "a bitch" as they say.
They have put a kill switch in them somewhere ... Juuust incase one of those nations discovers that they are sitting on oil ..
This sounds so much like a star trek episode i have seen before. On top of that "see the white of their eye's" (Don't shoot until...) changes in an historical sense. Next thing you know we will have MEC's running around and World subjugation will commence (tongue in cheek).
Being a Military guy once ago i feel this is way different than the way we did stuff.
I'm just expressing something and i hope i don't get slammed too much but i feel it's lame.
I'm here for the experience, not the Hyperbole.
You've become a bunch of whiny bitches, cowering in fear, ignoring your own constitution, destroying the rights of everyone else on the planet with your surveillance, and overly willing to kill civilians remotely with little or no process or accountability.
Do you not realize you have given up any right to expect the rest of the world to not be angry with you? Or indifferent to what happens to your people?
American lives are not worth more than the rest of us, and we don't give a crap that you're so scared and out of control to not understand this.
Fuck you, America.
I'm sorry, but the rest of the world is getting tired of your shit. And we're rapidly reaching the point where we don't give a damn what happens to you.
America is becoming a failed state, flailing around, and demanding everybody play by their rules.
Fuck off.
When will those of us in the flyover states be able to buy our own armed drones?
Youtube is filled with entertaining videos of rednecks with guns and explosives. Armed drones would help take this to a whole new level. Think BattleBots with truly no holds barred.
Sure, there may be some people who would want to use these for illegal purposes, but think of all the benefits. Imagine a new service for stalking victims - counter-stalking drones, now with a "resolve" button.
(For the humor impaired, yes, I'm kidding)
I'm sure they also thought it was a good idea to sell arms to ISIS back when they were just a bunch of "Syrian Rebels."
involving the use of force only when there is a lawful basis for use of force under international law,
Physician, heal thyself.
"Armed and other advanced UAS are to be used in operations involving the use of force only when there is a lawful basis for use of force under international law, such as national self-defense"
You mean business as usual ie. any one who can afford to pay for them or will help American Corporate interests. You currently don't use your military \technology according to those guidelines so why start now.
Or is it more like the Disney pirate code - they are are more like guide lines only.
foreign military bodies would have to agree to a set of "proper use" rules in order for the U.S. to go ahead with the sale
Those rules are as follows:
That is all.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
I'm sure the US can operate these things remotely, even without an exposed API. Given that most of the world would describe the US as a rogue nation, I would be highly concerned about having any automated weapons system they developed within my nation's borders.
It would only be a matter of time before the trojan horse scenario would be implemented.
So, I'm not sure why this is even being considered. Why not sell man-pack, shoulder-mount weapons..you know, without the actual ammunition while we're at it? If the military is all up in arms over a drone that goes down and isn't confirmed destroyed, lest someone get a hold of the parts and reverse-engineer it, why would you agree to sell one? Oh, sure, they'll agree to "proper use" of it, but that wouldn't keep them from tearing it apart and making their own copies, will it? I mean, that's just a piece of paper that's been signed, right? Not actually something that will keep the buyer from changing their mind.
Seriously.
Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
Is this one of those "Do as I say, not as I do" things?
I bet it's one of those "Do as I say, not as I do" things.
Let's just say that the possibilities here ought to be enough to prevent drones from
ever being sold to other countries.
Of course students of history will understand that the extremely wealthy often start wars
for profit ( see the Krupp empire for an example ) so none of this will surprise you, nor does
it surprise me.
Ground forces, however do. It's time to take the kid gloves off and let the US Army have a free hand at deploying troops against these targets instead. Ground forces say you're committed in a way drones never will. They also tend to produce far fewer non-combatant casualties.
And while we're at it, you want to defund ISIS? Obama could start to weaken them by simply announcing on in a press conference that he has given permission to the DNI and SOCOM to start assassinating any foreign national found intentionally supplying funds to ISIS. Live in Qatar and send them money? Too bad. CIA will slit your throat and dump your body in the gulf if they find you.
Well, anyway the drones will be produced privately elsewhere soon if not already. No one's putting this genie back in a bottle. Reminds me of when it was illegal to export 286 computers in the late 1990s.
"Click to Hit" Go online, create a user profile, enter photo of your enemy into our facial recognition software, and our private security drone will execute your enemy in 3-5 business days.
Gently reply
Why do this?
I worry about the day when they start selling them to domestic law enforcement agencies.
No!! Offcourse we haven't built in backdoors.
You have full control.
A brilliant move, let foreign countries buy weapons that fight for the US!
If/When the shit hits the fan, we have weapons accross the world at our disposal.
Expect to see these drones in Ukraine soon, then. Not that the change in the policy was needed, since US is providing to the ally Israel, but it does seem as a message to Russians that they will see drones soon in the war zones of Donbas and Crimea.
Had Ukraine had drones six month ago, or better a year ago, their situation would have been much different and they would not need to go through shameful and humiliating "decisions to withdraw" time after time. Sort of a disgrace for a 5th largest weapons exporter in the world, industrial powerhouse, rocket builder and a formerly nuclear country , but we digress here.
Yes, we know that the war is a significant contributor to the scientific research, however expect these UAV to be battle tested in Ukraine against most modern Russian radio-electronic warfare methods.
America sells weapons? Who'd a thunk it...
That is all.
"Country A sells aircraft and munitions to other countries." How is this different than anything in the last 100 years?
/. article.
Oh wait....there's that magic word, 'drone'.
Guaranteed
First the drones are the kindest weapon of war ever invented. Compared to other modes of fighting drones kill far less innocents. For example we can use a drone to take out a car with enemies in the car. Fifty years ago we might have leveled an entire town to make sure we hit that car. Obviously war always involves some innocents caught in the middle. The question is ho many. Drones also cost us less than other weapons of war. And we have no dead or injured troops that must be supported for life as drones take the hit rather than flesh being hit. And now we find that just like we sold cannons to friendly governments centuries ago we can make even more money selling drones to friendly nations. This actually follows a trend in international economics. Now we worry about whether our drones are better than the other sides drones. But in our economics we now must be certain that our robot like devices work better and cheaper than China's automated equipment. Go to a machining technology fair and watch companies argue exactly that their automated factory machinery works better, cheaper, and longer than the other companies hawking their wares. Our government follows that model. Get along nicely with the US and we will give you drones that kick ass for peanuts.
Does that price include the remote and batteries? And am I going to have to buy the hardpoint accessories for another 5 million? It includes a 90-day warranty? I have to open ports 80 through 443 on my firewall? This deal's getting worse all the time!
It's gonna get nasty in the not-so-far future. We're ging to get a bigger taste of our own exports. Pity we couldn't make anything useful instead.
"SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
Where does the revenue from the sales go? It'd be nice to see it go to schools/education in some way, but I am sure it'll go to waste at the Pentagon some how.
geek n performer who performs morbid or disgusting acts, as biting off the head of a live chicken
Posting as AC because previously a FAC in Iraq and have experience employing armed drones in combat. If enough "respected" countries were to adopt armed UAVs (not Iran, Israel, Russia), then the U.S. would be in a better position to influence the debate on whether unmanned air strikes are a violation of the laws of war or not. The International Red Cross has a good article on the legality of UAVs here. Basically armed-UAVs are not specifically mentioned in any treaties, but under humanitarian laws, "....parties to a conflict must always distinguish between combatants and civilians and between military objectives and civilian objects." In Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc., the enemy doesn't wear uniforms or roll around in identifiable military equipment. Its arguable that if all you've got is a UAV with a video feed, you are not able to distinguish between military objectives and civilian objects. But let's argue that the U.S. has some super-secret sensors that take all the guess work out of identifying enemies off of a FLIR video feed. Would the U.S. also be exporting those sensors with the UAVs? Or would the U.S. basically be saying that we have fewer civilian casualties than country Y- that bought our drones, so we're taking precautions to prevent civilian deaths... therefore our UAV program is legal and moral? That's likely the real reason that the U.S. has been very slow to even acknowledge that there have ever been any civilian casualties as a result of drone strikes in the first place. Even though everyone knows the civilian body count is much higher than officially acknowledged. You can classify a UAV strike, but you cannot classify a civilian life taken.
Warmongers are gonna warmonger. The UK are already using American drones, if this is NEWS then they must have been gifts from the states?
I'll buy that for a dollar!
You have no fucking clue what you're talking about. How about reading what Snowden released instead of the propaganda on thinkprogrogress. I've, more than once, watched Americans die because I wasn't allowed to shoot, and at least a dozen time watched terrorists murder civillians because our accountability system wouldn't let me take the shot.
Go fuck yourself.
Why the United States Always Loses Its Wars
Veterans Today on February 11, 2015
We are the global village bully that's hated by much of the world.
America loses all its wars because it seems we've always been on the wrong side of history. Morally nor legally should any nation have the right to invade and occupy another sovereign nation, much less believe it can achieve victory in long, protracted wars.
Yet in violation of all ethical precepts and all international laws, the sole global superpower citing its impunity through exceptionalism hypocritically insists it can maintain its moral high ground in its relentless pursuit of regime changes anywhere it so chooses on earth. We are the global village bully that's hated by much of the world.
And it's pure self-aggrandizing bullshit to perpetrate the myth that America is hated because of our "freedom," another rhetorical brainwashing lie. We now live in a fascist totalitarian police state run by a globalized crime syndicate of the central banking cabal. As of last April per a Princeton-Northwestern study the US has officially been designated an oligarchy.
Last year after a group of ethnic Russians living in Crimea voted to become part of Russia, the Russian military claimed control over its own naval base there that the US-NATO had been lusting to steal after the unlawful overthrow of Ukraine's democratically elected sovereign government.
Ever since it's been nonstop lies and propaganda propagated to demonize Putin as the aggressor when in fact all along it's the American Empire that's been recklessly pushing what could end up World War III against nuclear powered Russia. With US-NATO missiles installed on Russia's doorstep in virtually every former Soviet eastern bloc nation, hemming Russia in, who's really the aggressor here?
The WMD lie that was the repeated mantra used as prewar drum beating propaganda to launch a war against humanity in Iraq a dozen years earlier is now being replayed as deja vu all over again to amnesic, dumbed down Americans. Despite defeats in both Iraq and Afghanistan still being dragged out as America's longest running wars in its history, the US-NATO war machine is once again prepping for yet more war raging now in Eastern Ukraine.
The US government's rush to war hit a minor snag the other day when various European nations like France and Germany announced their opposition and refusal to send arms to the Ukraine government, wanting to give peace talks with Russia a chance. Today's headlines state that Obama has been forced to pause in his arms rush, not unlike the world turning against his rush a year and a half ago for air strikes in Syria after the false flag chemical weapons attack that was actually launched by US backed rebels.
So it may not be full speed ahead for US Empire to ship its heavy weaponry to the eastern warfront after all. It is being reported that mercenaries speaking American English, Polish, French and Flemish are fighting for the Kiev government in Eastern Ukraine against ethnic Russians who are fighting for their independence, their home and their very survival. And with their backs up against the wall, recently the eastern Ukrainians have beaten back the Ukrainian government forces. Again, the US has a knack for being on the wrong side of history.
No true victor can emerge from any war on either side. The incessant US aggressor boasting superior firepower as the most deadly, expensive military force on the planet (spending more than the next ten nations combined), America has little to show for itself as it has not won a single war in seventy years!
Neo-colonialism cloaked in imperialism, balkanization, economic exploitation, debtors' theft, indentured servitude and enslavement can never be justified as the spoils of war. It's a losing proposition in every imaginable way, not only for the aggressive American Empire that keeps starting and losing war aft
Why the United States Always Loses Its Wars
Veterans Today on February 11, 2015
We are the global village bully that's hated by much of the world.
America loses all its wars because it seems we've always been on the wrong side of history. Morally nor legally should any nation have the right to invade and occupy another sovereign nation, much less believe it can achieve victory in long, protracted wars.
Yet in violation of all ethical precepts and all international laws, the sole global superpower citing its impunity through exceptionalism hypocritically insists it can maintain its moral high ground in its relentless pursuit of regime changes anywhere it so chooses on earth. We are the global village bully that's hated by much of the world.
And it's pure self-aggrandizing bullshit to perpetrate the myth that America is hated because of our "freedom," another rhetorical brainwashing lie. We now live in a fascist totalitarian police state run by a globalized crime syndicate of the central banking cabal. As of last April per a Princeton-Northwestern study the US has officially been designated an oligarchy.
Last year after a group of ethnic Russians living in Crimea voted to become part of Russia, the Russian military claimed control over its own naval base there that the US-NATO had been lusting to steal after the unlawful overthrow of Ukraine's democratically elected sovereign government.
Ever since it's been nonstop lies and propaganda propagated to demonize Putin as the aggressor when in fact all along it's the American Empire that's been recklessly pushing what could end up World War III against nuclear powered Russia. With US-NATO missiles installed on Russia's doorstep in virtually every former Soviet eastern bloc nation, hemming Russia in, who's really the aggressor here?
The WMD lie that was the repeated mantra used as prewar drum beating propaganda to launch a war against humanity in Iraq a dozen years earlier is now being replayed as deja vu all over again to amnesic, dumbed down Americans. Despite defeats in both Iraq and Afghanistan still being dragged out as America's longest running wars in its history, the US-NATO war machine is once again prepping for yet more war raging now in Eastern Ukraine.
The US government's rush to war hit a minor snag the other day when various European nations like France and Germany announced their opposition and refusal to send arms to the Ukraine government, wanting to give peace talks with Russia a chance. Today's headlines state that Obama has been forced to pause in his arms rush, not unlike the world turning against his rush a year and a half ago for air strikes in Syria after the false flag chemical weapons attack that was actually launched by US backed rebels.
So it may not be full speed ahead for US Empire to ship its heavy weaponry to the eastern warfront after all. It is being reported that mercenaries speaking American English, Polish, French and Flemish are fighting for the Kiev government in Eastern Ukraine against ethnic Russians who are fighting for their independence, their home and their very survival. And with their backs up against the wall, recently the eastern Ukrainians have beaten back the Ukrainian government forces. Again, the US has a knack for being on the wrong side of history.
No true victor can emerge from any war on either side. The incessant US aggressor boasting superior firepower as the most deadly, expensive military force on the planet (spending more than the next ten nations combined), America has little to show for itself as it has not won a single war in seventy years!
Neo-colonialism cloaked in imperialism, balkanization, economic exploitation, debtors' theft, indentured servitude and enslavement can never be justified as the spoils of war. It's a losing proposition in every imaginable way, not only for the aggressive American Empire that keeps starting and losing war aft
How does Ron Paul's semen taste?
Have gnu, will travel.
I can't think of a single thing...
I listen to folks talk about not letting the mentally ill have access to firearms, yet we give nuclear launch codes and near unlimited power to folks who consult astrologers ( Reagan ) and have beliefs in imaginary deities ( every US President, ever ) who use such beliefs and information to help formulate both their foreign and domestic policy.
Truly, the inmates run the asylum.
Are you sure it's Ron Paul? I didn't read the whole thing, but I thought he was fellating Vladimir Putin.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
and this is of course: Where can I get one??? :P
The rest of the article is not relevant
-- 29A the number of the Beast
Some countries just want to see the world burn. I have lately decided the real reason wages have been flat in the united states sense the 70s is that is when we started sending vast amounts of our wealth overseas in the form of foldable cash to buy off people. It all disappears into the black hole.