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Linux Kernel Switching To Linux v4.0, Coming With Many New Addons
An anonymous reader writes Following polling on Linus Torvald's Google+ page, he's decided to make the next kernel version Linux 4.0 rather than Linux 3.20. Linux 4.0 is going to bring many big improvements besides the version bump with there being live kernel patching, pNFS block server support, VirtIO 1.0, IBM z13 mainframe support, new ARM SoC support, and many new hardware drivers and general improvements. Linux 4.0 is codenamed "Hurr durr I'ma sheep."
So, I assume that a bunch of nitwits are going to show up and say that Linux is never going to be used professionally unless they get their naming together. Inevitably GIMP will be brought up as another example. (And perhaps even GNU.)
Being that I work with distributors and customers from different nations I occasionally encounter people with not only names that are mildly funny but even obscene in my native language.
Guess what the professionals do? They don't give a shit about the name because if you let the name of something have an impact on your decisions then your choices will be limited by them and that itself is highly unprofessional.
Fancy names and shiny appearance is marketing tools to hide whatever is under the hood. Don't let that deceive you.
No, it's the kernel. systemd is a crap load of applications. Applications that ignore stderr, drop higher priority syslog messages, and ignores nonzero exit statuses.
At least we finally get some understandable technical arguments instead of "it's a monolithic blob" or "it does not respect the UNIX way of doing things".
No . Systemd now includes a new daemon called kerneld 4.0 .. and all these afre included in .... .... .... EMACS mwhahahahaha
the inescapable conclusion that internet polls are bad.
Big surprise.
But "Hurr durr I'ma sheep" trounced "I like online polls" by a 62-to-38%
margin, in a poll that people weren't even supposed to participate in.
Who can argue with solid numbers like that? 5,796 votes from people who
can't even follow the most basic directions?
In contrast, "v4.0" beat out "v3.20" by a slimmer margin of 56-to-44%,
but with a total of 29,110 votes right now.
Now, arguably, that vote spread is only about 3,200 votes, which is less
than the almost six thousand votes that the "please ignore" poll got, so
it could be considered noise.
But hey, I asked, so I'll honor the votes.
Source
No, it's the kernel. systemd is a crap load of applications. Applications that ignore stderr, drop higher priority syslog messages, and ignores nonzero exit statuses.
What the fuck is up with you trolls repeating these stupid lies?
systemd may or may not have problems, but it demonstrably does not "ignore stderr, drop higher priority syslog messages, [or] ignore nonzero exit statuses".
If it does, or ever has done, any of these things where is the fucking bug report.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
"It's called Linux 4.0."
How's that?
Already some versions of Linux has been everything from Lucid Lynx to Trust Tahr. Windows is technically Chicago, isn't it?
And, sorry, but my software on my desktop at the moment consists of Xibo, Google, Putty, Audacity, GIMP, MonkeyJam, Scratch, GLPI (colloquially known as "gloopy"), and numerous others. And I work in a very posh independent school. This is what the kids see every day. Are the school bothered? No.
If you're put off by the name, use the version number like everyone else. And if your CIO doesn't allow you to deploy something because of a nickname, yet it fulfills all your business purposes and doesn't have the name visible ANYWHERE, he's an idiot.
Will luck, we also won't have idiotics ACs too!
The server running the bug reporting solution dropped the bug report.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Don't worry, systemd does not take over existing projects, it only rewrites them poorly.
It's the same character for both in Chinese - you have to disambiguate if you want to be more specific. There are more goats than sheep in China, so it's usually translated as goat if not specific.
Is there a reliable and efficient process init and monitor server in the Kernel yet? I think that's what people would really be more interested in getting.
"Hurr durr I'ma sheep" won over the alternative "I like online polls" which got 38% of the votes. ...in a vote Torvalds asked people not to vote in, and yet 5,796 people did.
In the real poll, "v4.0" beat out "v3.20" by 56% to 44% out of 29,110 votes.
Since nobody ever use the kernel code name, it doesn't matter in the slightest what it's called. Everyone will refer to the kernel as "4.0".
"Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
"it does not respect the UNIX way of doing things" IS a valid technical argument.
I work for a Fortune 500 company and I can assure you that my company's project names are no less ridiculous.
The only difference is that my company's products aren't open source, so the public almost never gets to see the project names and all the other silly things that show up in the comments of the code.
Even if those "technical arguments" are lies?
Seriously -- there are no reliable reports of systemd doing what these anonymous trolls report it as doing.
One of the advances of systemd is that it does log stderr from processes it starts, so some clown has decided to complain that it doesn't.
There are no reliable reports of this behaviour -- it's all a bunch of AC posts on Slashdot plus one on Reddit (which was immediatley refuted), plus a few paranoid claims about bug reports being "deleted". How do you delete a bug report from bugzilla? You can't.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Yes, exactly. I'm running Debian Jessie and I'm not really comfortable with binary logs. It takes decades of log practice and throws it away. For what? Search capability? Maybe there's some security benefit, honestly I don't know enough about it to comment. I'll be forwarding my logs to nice text files for the foreseeable future though, until I for one welcome my new systemd overlord.
Cthulhu Saves.
Seriously?
The GP posts a straight out lie, some moron mods it "interesting".
I point out that it is a lie. I get moderated "flamebait".
Even if you hate systemd, try to beat it with facts. If you start to base your arguments on verifiable lies we begin to doubt your sanity.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
when you say 'the UNIX way of things', you mean like AIX does, like Solaris does or like HPUX does? because those UNIX stopped using custom scripts years ago
Big step from 3.19: No
Same work as 3.20: Yes
The reference point is 3.0. Kernel development is now 'inline' (as opposed to the old even=release, odd=development system). That means the minor number just gets bigger and bigger, and the kernel gets further and further away from what 3.0 was.
This means at somepoint one should bump the major version number; the question is when? Linus has the answer for this: Basically when the minor number gets asthetically displeasing to him, he'll bump the major number and start the minor number again at 0.
One might ask what will Linus do when the major number gets too big (e.g. >20) ?
Others might ask, why don't they just use a year/calendar based version number? Like Ubuntu does.
Yes, exactly. I'm running Debian Jessie and I'm not really comfortable with binary logs.
The default configuration on Debian Jessie is to log everything to syslogd as before.
What difference did you notice in the logging?
I'll be forwarding my logs to nice text files for the foreseeable future though
Why are you doing that? The system already does it for you.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
That's a bold statement.
Most Unix stuff doesn't follow the Unix "way of doing things"...
Wake up, this is the real world...
"Hurr durr I'ma sheep."
(setq sarcasm 'on) Well, that will certainly help me convince the boss to upgrade our infrastructure. (setq sarcasm nil)
I wish people in Open Source realized that Open source means you are living in a fishbowl, and everyone can see your shit. In a closed system you can call your work anything you like, the marketers will take care of the image. Yet open source, for good or ill, is visible to all, including this kind of nonsense. Juvenile stuff just doesn't work with people who have the authority to make major decisions. You would think that there would be a natural sense of shame in trying to practice marketing when you are really an engineer. Stick to coding guys!
One reason we use a lot of BSD here instead of linux a few years ago, is that not only is it open source but also there is a very simple release cycle and no one feels the need to name each release some sort of catchy name. The version numbers also actually mean something. It is an engineered solution, not a marketing project for high school nerds.
Linux will always remain a toy until the people coding it learn to grow up and actually promote its true abilities as an industrial strength tool for doing real work. Hurr durr just doesn't give that message. Even Red Hat has learned this and stuck to a very predictable release numbering which is what the bean counters like. Predictability is what makes risk management possible, and that is why people will invest money in it. Sheep do not get to play that game.
But well, it's just the kernel, so one could just use the number, but damn this sort of stuff is exactly why linux will never be taken that seriously, even if it is free. /rant off
Linux not taken seriously? Are you insane? It's the most widely distributed kernel on the planet.
First look at:
http://droidhyper.com/wp-conte...
Notice how smart phones and tablets are far outselling PCs? Now look at the distribution of phone operating systems being sold:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
The kernel is shipping in every single one of those android phones. If you guys are basing your decision on whether or not to use Linux vs BSD servers based on whether or not the releases are named, I think Linux can probaly do ok without you.
All I'm wondering is whether there has ever been a single quote in the codename before? Virtually guaranteed to break someone's build system...
They should have just gone straight to eleven because, you know, it's one more than ten plus that way they could have one-upped OS X _AND_ Windows! (and it's a freaking prime on top of that!)
"Only one thing is impossible for God: To find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." - Mark Twain
Maybe you should look harder. "systemd-sysv-" means "REMOVE systemd-sysv".
The systemd-shim is to make pam-systemd work without systemd being installed. gdm3 needs pam-systemd.
If you don't need/want gdm3 just remove pam-systemd and don'n install systemd-shim.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Yes, Linux is only on embedded devices. It's not running on my phone, laptop, desktop, and server at all.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Yeah, I forgot the damned "</b>". Makes me sound like an angry person. Not that I could ever be mistaken for an angry person otherwise.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
NT 4.0 came out in 1996, not 1999. Earlier versions had the same look and feel as Windows 3.x, which would have been _really_ out of place in 1999.
We had it installed on a 166MHz Alpha back in '97, I think. Funny thing - flood ping the thing and it's like a pause button. Everything just stops. Stop pinging, the clock skips forward and everything goes on as normal.
My friend with the Aplha wasn't amused. He was less amused every time he left and came back to Linux running on it.
Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
"it does not respect the UNIX way of doing things" IS a valid technical argument.
What pray tell is the UNIX way of doing things?
I have been using Unix (BSD, Ultrix, Tru64, AIX, SunOS, IRIX, HPUX, Solaris, SCO (when they were the good guys) and others) for over 35 years and what you have just said would get you laughed out of a design meeting.
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
The company I work for is currently code-naming their projects after cartoon characters.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
If Linus' main motivation for bumping the kernel's version is because he doesn't like how high the minor version number is getting, and he keeps bumping the major number because of that, at some point, the major number is going to get as high as the minor number gets when he starts not liking how big the number is. So, presumably, he'll be unhappy with how high the major number is at that point, but what's he going to do? What do you do when you have Linux 19 and don't likely how high the number is? Change the name to something other than Linux? You might be able to go from 3.20 to 4.0, but the version number after 19.19 is going to end up with a 20 in it either way. Maybe that's when he'll retire and let someone else run things...
Most Unix stuff doesn't follow the Unix "way of doing things"...
Most of the stuff that the system depends on and that actually makes it Unix does follow the Unix Way. Maybe your favorite application doesn't, but we're talking about the actual system here.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Yeah you've been gone a long time. Not just from Sashdot, but apparently there are yet rocks one can hide under!
Turns out that the Slashdot predictions in the 90s about taking over the world pretty much came to pass. The obscure project Linux is now known by everyone, and Linux is pretty much everywhere now for good or bad. Maybe not on the desktop, which is an every shrinking small part of the overall picture. Linux dominates the mobile world, pretty much swept clean the super computing world and the cloud computing landscape, and is still a huge player in the server world. It's not work for free either. Linux development is mostly done by full-time paid employees of quite a few companies that depend on Linux, and make serious money from it. So Linux really has been wildly successful, and makes people working on it a lot of money, and we all benefit. Pretty amazing picture.
"it does not respect the UNIX way of doing things" IS a valid technical argument.
What exactly is "the UNIX way" of doing things? Because in looking at the existing UNIX-derived operating systems like AIX or HPUX and the UNIX-certified ones like OSX this move to systemd (whether you like it or not) certainly does seem to be in keeping with the UNIX way of doing things.
Perhaps what you mean is that you're complaining that it isn't doing things the way UNIX did them 20-odd years ago, which may well be a valid complaint but calling that "the UNIX way of doing things" doesn't give much confidence that you know what you're talking about. If that's what you mean and that's how you prefer it to be then certainly your preference is a valid complaint to take onboard.
Systemd via journald can actually capture more log info than systemV init, and can gaurantee the authenticity of certain parts of the data, and can pass it to a traditional loggin deamon if you need it to. Systemd is made from modular components, only a small number are required. All systemd configuration files are plain text and configuration is declarative in style (getting rid of a lot of the complexity in prodecural systemV scripts). So far you actually haven't listed a requirement where systemd fails or can pass with trivial modification to the system.
Systemd actually brings back a old favorite feature of Unix. multiseat computing, you can have a single high-end computer drive 2-4 seats instead of a low-end driving a single seat, saving money and reducing wastes at the intitutional level.