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The Case Against E-readers -- Why Digital Natives Prefer Reading On Paper

HughPickens.com writes: Michael Rosenwald writes in the WaPo that textbook makers, bookstore owners and college student surveys all say millennials still strongly prefer reading on paper for pleasure and learning. This bias surprises reading experts, given the same group's proclivity to consume most other content digitally. "These are people who aren't supposed to remember what it's like to even smell books," says Naomi S. Baron. "It's quite astounding." Earlier this month, Baron published Words Onscreen: The Fate of Reading in a Digital World, a book that examines university students' preferences for print and explains the science of why dead-tree versions are often superior to digital (PDF).

Her conclusion: readers tend to skim on screens, distraction is inevitable and comprehension suffers. Researchers say readers remember the location of information simply by page and text layout — that, say, the key piece of dialogue was on that page early in the book with that one long paragraph and a smudge on the corner. Researchers think this plays a key role in comprehension — something that is more difficult on screens, primarily because the time we devote to reading online is usually spent scanning and skimming, with few places (or little time) for mental markers.

Another significant problem, especially for college students, is distraction. The lives of millennials are increasingly lived on screens. In her surveys, Baron was surprised by the results to the question of whether students were more likely to multitask in hard copy (1 percent) vs. reading on-screen (90 percent). "When a digital device has an Internet connection, it's hard to resist the temptation to jump ship."

261 comments

  1. But... by sugapablo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Having the ability to touch any word on the screen and have definitions, translations, and wikipedia entries pop up as you read (which is great for many of the older books) is a fantastic benefit over and beyond the simple fact that so many of the world's classics are available free of charge wherever you have internet access is a bonus that can't be overlooked. Honestly, in terms of studying books such as Gibbon's Fall of the Roman Empire, I find myself eternally grateful for such capabilities. Not to mention, if you can read the book on your cell phone, you always have the right reading material on the toilet. :)

    1. Re:But... by Irate+Engineer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Having the ability to touch any word on the screen and have definitions, translations, and wikipedia entries pop up as you read (which is great for many of the older books) is a fantastic benefit over and beyond the simple fact that so many of the world's classics are available free of charge wherever you have internet access is a bonus that can't be overlooked. Honestly, in terms of studying books such as Gibbon's Fall of the Roman Empire, I find myself eternally grateful for such capabilities.

      Maybe. For certain books, perhaps ones with lots of foreign words or jargon, this could be an advantage, but sometimes there is such a thing as too much information. Maybe a literature student reads a word with which they are unfamiliar in a text. They *could* get the definition instantaneously through a link and move on, but is that actually learning? Did they lose track of the narrative by this distraction? What if the student struggled a bit but worked out the meaning from the context instead, and then later verified the definition?

      Instant web access can supplement, but it also can be an overused crutch that inhibits critical thinking and learning skills. I'd be interested to know the breakdown by degree for the data presented.

      --

      Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!

      Vote for Bernie in 2016!

    2. Re:But... by bhagwad · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This survey was obviously done not taking into consideration dedicated e-readers and only focuses on smartphones and tablets. There's a world of a difference between the two types of devices. I'd like to see a study done just with dedicated e-readers.

    3. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You made her point without meaning too. Being able to "jump to Wikipedia entries" and have definitions pop up are DISTRACTIONS, that can take away from the comprehending and retaining the original content.

    4. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ereaders is a good *addition* to your library.

      They are still a 'tad' clunky. But are getting there. As an addition to my library I welcomed it.

    5. Re:But... by RandomAdam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Agreed; I love my Kobo Aura HD; I very rarely use the light function preferring to use regular lights until I want to go to sleep, just like the tree meat books, and it lasts weeks between charges.

      I can't read for pleasure on a glowing screen it is always distracting.

      --
      @Random_Adam

      Sometimes a sig doesn't have to be funny!!
    6. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why, are you illiterate or something?

      No, seriously -- if you have to go look up stuff often enough for that to be a big deal, then (a) the book is too hard for you and (b) you're missing the point of reading. You'd lose sense of how the story flows if you keep starting and stopping like that. When you run across the occasional unfamiliar word, it provides a better experience just to figure it out from context and move on.

      At risk of feeding the trolls, I have to disagree.
      I often have the experience "Oooh, great word! I've always kinda known what that means. Show me more. CLICK... Ooh, I get it now. Nice"
      In my opinion, in significantly enhances my reading enjoyment.

    7. Re: But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. E-ink rocks.

    8. Re:But... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Learning is an essential part of reading. Failing to comprehend, or worse, guessing at a meaning and guessing wrong, does yourself a disservice. Story? Who even said we're reading fiction?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    9. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might have a point if you were referring only to fiction or memoir (and even then, not a very good one. Some books aren't meant to be read solely as a non-stop linear narrative).

      But nearly every nonfiction book that's worth your time is going to be rich with footnotes. That's usually the sign that an author did his homework and isn't just making things up. It's a cliche that the good stuff is all in the footnotes, but if you aren't reading them, then you are the one who is missing the point of reading.

    10. Re:But... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why, are you illiterate or something?

      Ad hominem modded "insightful"? Seriously, the mods are feeding the trolls now? Alas, since this is modded up, I'll risk a response....

      No, seriously -- if you have to go look up stuff often enough for that to be a big deal, then (a) the book is too hard for you

      Some people like to challenge themselves once in a while. By your logic, we should never move beyond our elementary school readers.

      and (b) you're missing the point of reading. You'd lose sense of how the story flows if you keep starting and stopping like that.

      Gee, there's only one possible "point of reading"? And here I thought that one of the primary "points of reading" was to understand what the author was saying... which you can't very well do if you don't understand the words.

      You're also talking about "stories" -- what about non-fiction? Or what about classic literature, which may use language a bit differently?

      In all seriousness, one of the primary reasons why the written word was invented was so it could preserve information... whether that be stories or non-fiction or whatever. Why? So that other people can learn about it. The idea that reading only functions as entertainment is a modern phenomenon.

      And if you're using reading to learn things, you should be prepared to encounter new ideas, which often may involve new words. I have taught graduate-level courses at universities, and one of the things I strongly encourage students to do is look up recurring words that they don't know. If you don't do that, you won't understand the text. And part of the learning process is often having a challenging reading that allows you to expand your ideas, which usually involves some new vocabulary at the same time.

      When you run across the occasional unfamiliar word, it provides a better experience just to figure it out from context and move on.

      Yes, that's a great exercise, and if you're in the middle of a fast-paced novel, it's probably a reasonable idea. But if you're actually trying to understand what an author is saying, and there's this word popping up a dozen times that you don't know, simply guessing what it means is missing an opportunity to learn something.

      And recurring words are great for that kind of exercise, because it provides periodic reinforcement, which is one of the keys to learning natural language and recalling new things. Most authors -- even those who write "stories" and fiction -- tend to have "pet words" that aren't part of the standard core vocabulary everyone uses. When you see such a word and look it up, each time the author uses it again you'll reinforce that word. Suddenly, by the end of the book, you'll have expanded your vocabulary by a dozen or a few dozen words. (And you're more likely to remember the meaning than if you had just memorized the word for a vocab test or something -- seeing practical usage will aid recall.)

      How else does one ever get to read books that are "too hard for you," as you put it? Or should we just ignore such books? By this logic, unless you were born with a giant vocabulary or hang around with people who use big words all the time, you're obviously not destined to read such weighty tomes....

    11. Re:But... by MrBigInThePants · · Score: 1

      I know this is the internet and all but just stop being a dick.

      I am highly literate and every once in a while I come across a word I recognize but want to find the EXACT meaning of. Rather that than what YOU apparently do which is just keep going and remain ignorant...exactly like your post.

      They also have other language dictionaries which have occasionally come in handy when a book is set in another country etc. Then there are the old world words that are not in common usage. And that is without Wikipedia use.

      There are many, many reasons that have nothing to do with being stupid and everything to becoming more informed and knowledgeable.

      Being able to put other people down on an internet forum does not make you clever...

      However raging against people wanting to be more informed and arguing for continued ignorance (and even being too stupid to realise that is what you are doing) makes you stupid.

      But then stupid people are often too stupid to realize how stupid they are I guess.

    12. Re:But... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Having the ability to touch any word on the screen and have definitions, translations, and wikipedia entries pop up as you read (which is great for many of the older books) is a fantastic benefit over and beyond the simple fact that so many of the world's classics are available free of charge wherever you have internet access is a bonus that can't be overlooked. Honestly, in terms of studying books such as Gibbon's Fall of the Roman Empire, I find myself eternally grateful for such capabilities. Not to mention, if you can read the book on your cell phone, you always have the right reading material on the toilet. :)

      Not just that, it's a lot easier to have tens or hundreds or thousands of books in a Kindle or an iPad. Particularly during moving. You don't have to worry about pages getting yellow, or particular books getting lost - once something is in your online library, it's there for good - unless and until you delete it.

    13. Re:But... by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      I last read every Heinlein I could find, and he used some odd words. I could figure them out by context, but the real meaning is so much more interesting.

      And few people later go find the definition. So many people have no idea what a whole pile of their vocabularies mean, really. And it gets mis-used.

      And now, the word "literally" literally means absolutely nothing. "Beg the question" is not a logical fallacy. A instead of a good horror movie, a bad comedy can be called "terrible".

      I accept that words lose their meaning, but I don't have to support the means by which words lose their meaning.

      You can be amazingly concise and write or speak with specific clarity in the English language, just because of the amazing selection of words available. And although I'm familiar with several languages, I won't be embarrassed to be wrong about this, but almost every language seems to have synonyms with different shades of meaning.

      but is that actually learning? Did they lose track of the narrative by this distraction?

      You sound like you are passionate about something very specific here and have not shared that something, or you are completely ignorant. Yes, it is learning. And I don't know if they lost track. If they have that short of an attention span then they need practice not losing track.

      In what way is this different from having a dictionary next to you in case someone uses an unfamiliar word? Oh wait, don't answer that, it's faster.

      Especially with my reader, the one that people seem to forget about. E-ink with offline dictionary. I can't accidentally get trapped in TV Tropes or Wikipedia clicking on the next interesting thing, and I don't have LED/LCD fatigue, and I'm not kept awake from the blue component of the white lighting.

      You need data and specifics, or you're just posting an instinctive knee-jerk reaction based on something someone else said once that resonated with you.

      "Learn words by context" leads to too many problems for me to take a proponent seriously. Especially in the context of a literature student. A literature student should not ever do that. A literature student should look up the definition, establish which one fits precisely, especially given the era and style of the work, since words evolve. And then if they lost the narrative, they go back and find it.

      You can't move on unless you understand what the author was communicating. I have lost track of the plots of novels because I misunderstood a word, and verified it later. Very few, but they didn't quite have the impact they should have.

    14. Re:But... by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      E-ink came and went. I know some dedicated e-readers use something else, but I'm really curious how many people just have not even looked at some sort of e-ink.

      Books, music, magazines in PDF - almost everything is amazingly readable.

      I would like to see the same thing.

    15. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Learn words by context" leads to too many problems for me to take a proponent seriously.

      No, and yes. You can get the idea of a word by context, and fill in the gap later by looking up the word. This will give you better memorization for both the source and definition you find. Interrupting your train of thought to gather a small fact impacts memory, you can find those studies for yourself.

      You can't move on unless you understand what the author was communicating.

      _YOU_ can't move on without some miniscule detail, but I find that feckless. Most of us can understand the contextual definition of a word without issue. Different of course if you are doing scholarly work on a particular subject, but that is absolutely not the majority of people with e-readers. In fact my scholarly pursuits have been with stacks of various books and reading each, not jumping from book to book. Context is pretty damn important for scholarly works as well.

    16. Re:But... by gullevek · · Score: 1

      And then you didn't look the word up, and you didn't learn anything.

      In the past when I didn't know an english word, I thought, well, I will look that up later ... and then never did and so lost some information from the book. With the Kindle I can immediately look the word up, get the information I need and therefore get more from the book itself.

      The only thing that a paper book has over the Kindle, is the quick way to flip around. For example to a map or other information in the book. That is something really lacking on ebooks. Most of them. Some have overlay interface for footnotes at least.

      --
      "Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
    17. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but I think you are wrong. There is hardward and there is usage. Anyone can easily look up a new word on a device they carry with them all the time - their smartphone. An e-reader with a proper e-ink display is far easier on the eyes and therefore more immersive and better for comprehension when reading long passages.

    18. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, melilennials are all dirt poor. The economy they inherited leaves them with barely any job opportunities, and crushing collegiate debt.

      So, they can't afford e-readers. They can't really afford the used books either, but, that's just part of the crushing debt.

    19. Re:But... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Informative

      They *could* get the definition instantaneously through a link and move on, but is that actually learning?

      Seriously? Yes, that's learning! Please tell me you're not calling a dictionary a "crutch". My 8th grade English teacher would weep.

      I'm guessing you haven't actually used this feature in a modern e-reader, right? You press and hold a word on the screen, and the definition pops up over the text. You've now learned a new word, and it's taken about five or ten seconds, and you continue reading, now slightly more knowledgeable.

      You're reading the book's content to broaden your mind, and trying to puzzle out a new word by context is much more of a distraction than actually learning a new word when it's right there and instantly available. There's nothing noble about taking a harder path to easily obtained knowledge. There are plenty of ways in which a person will need to struggle in order to learn new things. Looking up a the definition of a word shouldn't be one of those.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    20. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >And although I'm familiar with several languages, I won't be embarrassed to be wrong about this, but almost every language seems to have synonyms with different shades of meaning.

      Not newspeak . . . oh wait, is that what Orwell meant?

    21. Re:But... by Headw1nd · · Score: 0

      That guessing is called using context clues, and it's an incredibly important part of reading comprehension. If you are really confused, I can see referring back to a dictionary, especially for foreign words. However it would be unusual to refer to a dictionary for every new word you encountered.

    22. Re:But... by Joosy · · Score: 1

      Agreed wholeheartedly. I can understand the issue of distractions, but Kindle Paperwhite has none of that.

      --
      I'm sick and tired of these hip, "ironic" sigs. This is an actual, honest-to-goodness no-nonsense sig!
    23. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed; I was disappointed to see no mention of dedicated e-readers (for, say, novels).

      I found their findings about the difficulty of reading on the web to be true-to-life.

      Different readers for different things.

    24. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give it a rest. Getting definitions is option, you've obviously never used an e-reader with this functionality have you. There isn't a web page, it's s dictionary pop-up window that sits over the page you are reading.

      People like you are so obnoxious and can stand the reality other people are different. Sheesh, I guess you're an Apple user.

    25. Re:But... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      but sometimes there is such a thing as too much information

      Then you just don't activate the dictionary function on the thing you don't care about.

      They *could* get the definition instantaneously through a link and move on, but is that actually learning?

      If you clicked on "learning" to get a definition you would find that is is :) For example, I used to read a bit of stuff by Morris West on paper and I did need to keep a paper dictionary handy, and I did learn things as a consequence.
      Sadly there's too much flashing and moving shit on the typical web page for e-ink web browsers to be a seamless experience so the bit about forking off onto the net in the middle of a book is currently moot - browsing is a relatively clunky exercise requiring effort and not a simple distraction. There's offline wikipedia applications for ereaders to make it less painful.

    26. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This ability also stimulates being too hasty and superficial.

      I decided to finally learn Haskell just over a week ago, found that one of the books freely available online was a good fit for me, ordered a dead tree copy because I like to reward the authors for their good work, and continued using the online version until the paper version arrived. While being able to follow hyperlinks, copy type signatures etc. is very convenient, I find that I only use the paper version of the book now and I type things I could have copied and look up things in the index I could have used a hyperlink for in the inline version.

      This works better because it slows me down, information sinks in much better when I don't move on to the next detail too fast. Having stupid routine tasks that can easily be automated slow me down helps me to think more thoroughly. Because of this I don't have to go back to things I already went through as often, and I end up being more focused, I understand and learn better, and I quite possibly end up spending less time and energy for the same result.

    27. Re:But... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I saw a recent review of a smartphone that had two screens, one LCD and one eInk. The modern eInk display is able to get a high enough refresh for interactive use and doesn't drain the battery when done. The screen that I'd love to see is eInk with a transparent OLED on top, so that text can be rendered with the eInk display and graphics / video overlaid on the OLED. The biggest problem with eInk is that the PPI is not high enough to make them colour yet. You get 1/3 (or 1/4 if you want a dedicated black) of the resolution when you make the colour and so that means you're going to need at least 600PPI to make them plausible.

      The other problem that they've had is that LCDs have ramped up the resolution. My first eBook reader had a 166PPI eInk display. Now LCDs are over 300PPI but the Kindle Paperwhite is only 212PPI, so text looks crisper on the LCD than the eInk display, meaning that you're trading different annoyances rather than having the eInk be obviously superior. With real paper you get (at least, typically a lot more than) 300DPI and no backlight.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    28. Re:But... by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      Having the ability to touch any word on the screen and have definitions, translations, and wikipedia entries pop up as you read (which is great for many of the older books) is a fantastic benefit

      Yeah, no kidding. I've caught myself trying it on printed magazines more than once.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    29. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instant answers do no lead to long-term memories. Reading a pop-up translation for each word you don't know will not help so much. Select few of the most important words and look them up in a paper dictionary, then read the 5 line entry completely. Having to spend effort for an answer tells your brain this information needs to be remembered. Skimming through a long wikipedia page where you got by merely clicking, and with many on-screen distractions, will not be as useful to your learning.

    30. Re:But... by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 1

      Instant web access can supplement, but it also can be an overused crutch that inhibits critical thinking and learning skills

      DING! Do you want to passively just "know the answer" and probably forget it by the next time you query, or "understand the answer" by reasoning it out and having those save memory tracks (slightly) more available to you next time?

      Even if I've completely overestimated "understanding it", you've had to spend more time actually thinking about it, so there is a better chance you'll remember it.

      --
      If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
    31. Re:But... by omnichad · · Score: 2

      It came and went for most because people couldn't justify buying an "inferior" screen and spending more money when they already owned a tablet or phone capable of doing the job.

      That was the mistake. I charge my Kindle Paperwhite only once or twice a month and the brightness setting goes so low I don't even care that much that it's blue light. Though I've considered buying a filter to put over the screen.

      I disagree that PDF is the gold standard for e-ink. Reflowable content is the future, with HTML-based formats like ePub or Mobi. For one thing, it enables low vision people to have a custom-tailored font size. For another, publishers keep the same margins on PDF ebooks that they do for paper, wasting screen space. And it means the content fits the device's screen no matter what the aspect ratio or size.

    32. Re:But... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I use a Kindle, and have noticed the same. If I want to read text books, I need physical books; for stream data (fantasy novels), I use Kindle.

      The location information is visual. The space on the book, the depth into the book, and so forth. It's also serial: cross-referencing involves flipping back to the physical space in which the book should have the correct information, and then recognizing if the information you find is older or newer, and correcting position.

    33. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having the ability to touch any word on the screen and have definitions, translations, and wikipedia entries pop up as you read (which is great for many of the older books) is a [...]" ...MASSIVE distraction. Encourages drill-down trivia collecting at the expense of gestalt thinking; perfectionizing familiarity of every word at the expense of the grand themes.

      First rule for kids learning to read: skip over words you don't know, and KEEP GOING. If you're way over your head (a foreign language work, or an issue of the Economist), have a paper dictionary at hand, or keep a notepad of things to look up later, after you can decide what's really important. Or hell, underscore the word with your fingernail and dog-ear the page. If that makes you wince, you're fetishizing the object.

      With every word hyperlinked or searchable you will end up being able to recite the etymology of "peripatetic" instead of actually understanding the substance of Aristotle's philosophies. Ask me how I know.

      PS: you can take books into the bathroom. But they have to be yours.

    34. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why, are you illiterate or something?
      No, seriously -- if you have to go look up stuff often enough for that to be a big deal, then (a) the book is too hard for you and (b) you're missing the point of reading.

      Right. I'm sure you were born knowing the meaning of every word in every book you've ever read.

      The rest of us had to get by with dictionaries and regular vocabulary drills in school. And guess what, the vocab lists don't cover everything.

    35. Re:But... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Right. I'm sure you were born knowing the meaning of every word in every book you've ever read.

      No, I started with easy books and worked my way up. Although a little bit of dictionary-reading and vocabulary drills are necessary, it really does work better to learn the vast majority of vocabulary from context and experience reading lots and lots of stuff. That's why children's books have pictures, you know.

      Besides, you missed the fact that I wasn't accusing the guy of being illiterate, just pointing out that if you're not illiterate then you shouldn't need to look stuff up all the time (and thus being able to look stuff up easily is not a high-priority feature).

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    36. Re:But... by Yunzil · · Score: 1

      But if you're actually trying to understand what an author is saying, and there's this word popping up a dozen times that you don't know, simply guessing what it means is missing an opportunity to learn something.

      Or, you know, you could actually think about what you're reading and deduce the definition of the word from the context.

    37. Re:But... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Some people like to challenge themselves once in a while. By your logic, we should never move beyond our elementary school readers.

      No, that's going by your strawman caricature of my logic.

      By my actual logic, you should probably not try to skip directly from little golden books to Ulysses without reading incrementally more difficult things in between.

      Gee, there's only one possible "point of reading"? And here I thought that one of the primary "points of reading" was to understand what the author was saying... which you can't very well do if you don't understand the words.

      And if you have to look up every other damn word, you'll forget what the first part of the sentence said by the time you get to the end of it.

      I have taught graduate-level courses at universities, and one of the things I strongly encourage students to do is look up recurring words that they don't know.

      If your students are having to do that so often -- and that's the important word: "often!" -- that using an e-reader with a built-in dictionary provides a significant advantage, then what were they doing during their entire 'education' up to that point? Shouldn't people have already developed a decent vocabulary before becoming grad students? How do they even pass the verbal portion of the GRE?

      Yes, that's a great exercise, and if you're in the middle of a fast-paced novel, it's probably a reasonable idea. But if you're actually trying to understand what an author is saying, and there's this word popping up a dozen times that you don't know, simply guessing what it means is missing an opportunity to learn something.

      Well shit, if you've already tried figuring the word out from context and failed, and then it keeps coming up over and over again, then of course you should go look it up -- that's fucking common sense! Clearly, from your response, I overestimated Slashdotters' grasp of the obvious.

      And recurring words are great for that kind of exercise, because it provides periodic reinforcement, which is one of the keys to learning natural language and recalling new things. Most authors -- even those who write "stories" and fiction -- tend to have "pet words" that aren't part of the standard core vocabulary everyone uses. When you see such a word and look it up [or figure it out from context], each time the author uses it again you'll reinforce that word. Suddenly, by the end of the book, you'll have expanded your vocabulary by a dozen or a few dozen words. (And you're more likely to remember the meaning than if you had just memorized the word for a vocab test or something -- seeing practical usage will aid recall.)

      So you agree with me, then!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    38. Re:But... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      I am highly literate and every once in a while I come across a word I recognize but want to find the EXACT meaning of.

      Yeah, and the key phrase there is "every once in a while." A feature you use "every once in a while" is in no way the "fantastic benefit" that the GP claimed it to be -- the only way any feature can be a "fantastic benefit" is if you need to use it enough to make it so. Tautologically, anyone who needs to use a dictionary so damn often that having it instantly accessible is a "fantastic benefit" (rather than a minor one) is, in fact, illiterate.

      But hey, thanks for entirely missing the point and then attacking me for it. That really sets a great example for how not to be a dick on the Internet!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    39. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. While some e-readers have a primitive type of web browser, these are painful to use. Most new e-readers do not have games either. Ad to that the fact that I can carry hundreds of books on a device that weighs less than most paperback books, can look up any word that I choose, and lets me buy new books anywhere that I happen to be, e-readers win every time. I love to read, but haven't picked up a dead tree book for years. I have a tablet, but never read ebooks on it. My Kindle Touch is much easier to read without eye strain.

    40. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But if you're actually trying to understand what an author is saying, and there's this word popping up a dozen times that you don't know, simply guessing what it means is missing an opportunity to learn something.

      Or, you know, you could actually think about what you're reading and deduce the definition of the word from the context.

      And sometimes you will deduce wrong. Or, when not wrong, at least miss out on nuances.

    41. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, the only measure of benefit you get from a feature is frequency of use. Air bags aren't a fantastic benefit, because you don't use them all the damned time. You've got to use it constantly for it to be a fantastic benefit.

      Or, maybe it's possible for something to be a fantastic benefit *in part* because it's readily available when you *do* need it, and completely unobtrusive when you don't?

    42. Re:But... by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      Instant answers do no lead to long-term memories. Reading a pop-up translation for each word you don't know will not help so much. Select few of the most important words and look them up in a paper dictionary, then read the 5 line entry completely. Having to spend effort for an answer tells your brain this information needs to be remembered. Skimming through a long wikipedia page where you got by merely clicking, and with many on-screen distractions, will not be as useful to your learning.

      So the speed of lookup affects retention? I don't believe it. Just because it takes 30 seconds to look up a word in a paper dictionary
      vs 1 sec to click on a word isn't going to affect how well you remember that definition.

    43. Re:But... by phorm · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I am a few friends all are what would likely be considered voracious readers. I believe I got my kindle touch about 2.5 years ago, and I've got about 250 ebook purchases in my library now. I also still buy physical books, but generally that's for certain authors/series I've been following/collecting, and it's vastly outnumbered by my digital library in terms of purchase volume.

      Why do I like the eReader
      * It's just as easy on the eyes as a book. Easier in some cases as font-size is adjustable
      * If I finish a book, and there's another in the series, I can just grab it
      * Holidays, etc... it's *MUCH* easier to pack an eReader than a half dozen paperbacks
      * Most eBooks are priced more reasonably than print, with the exceptions of some major authors
      * With the above, I've found a ton of AMAZING authors
      * Suggestions based on my reading: which led me to many of the above

      Features I wish my eReader had
      * Solar charger
      * Waterproof
      * Backlight tinted for night viewing (non-sleep-interrupting, I don't have a backlight at all on my model though)
      * Ability to follow a series. Possibly an author. I'm not sure if I'm just not finding this feature or if Amazon is really missing the ball here, but it seems it would be an extremely convenient feature to get notified of new releases and beneficial to them from a sales perspectivel

      I can't comment on other readers because I don't have one. The may have or lack some of the features of mine.

    44. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with instant translation is that it undermines the choice of looking up or not. Memory comes from a really strong filter. Instant translations make you look up more words, many more than what your brain can remember. It's better you just learn 2 words from that book that will stay for life than 20 you'll have forgotten by tomorrow. It's actually better to look as infrequently as possible for translations. You'll remember the words better if you learn them by the context rather than a definition. That's how humans learn native languages. Instant translations kill your ability to learn from context. Another argument, when the translation is instantaneous, your brain is presented with the two words at the same time. This gives the brain the option to remember the meaning of the sentence in either of the two languages, so there is the possibility it will be lazy and remember using the word in native language.

      You teach languages to young kids using songs, because one can remember songs easily. No translations, just context. After learning by heart sentences you gain the ability to re-use the words and constructions. Also anecdotical example from my life: in a foreign language class for adults, the teacher would never answer the question "what does this word mean", rather wait for you to look it up in the paper dictionary available. If you spent effort looking for it, you brain knows it must be super important and gives it more weight to go through the filter.

    45. Re:But... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I suspect there's context effects here, but I'd think they'd be on the side of the eReader. If you get the definition right away, you've got an immediate context for the word, while if you look it up in the paper dictionary later, you're seeing it on its own.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    46. Re:But... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      PDF is great if you can fit the page on your screen readably. If you want to do any sort of adjustment for screen size, it's crap. If you're using Calibre, it's the worst file type to try to convert into epub. Since such PDFs tend to come larger than the sort of tablet I prefer, I avoid them.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    47. Re:But... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There are times when context just isn't enough. Frequently you can glork the meaning of a word from context, but there are times when frody just isn't sufficient.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    48. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you always have the right reading material on the toilet. :)

      Dude the back of the toilet has a shelf for your reading material. You know that lid on back.

    49. Re:But... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I had an English teacher once who passed out an assignment telling us that the answers should be cryptic.

      Some time earlier, another person had sent her a list of questions, and she replied by just listing the answers. The other person told my teacher that she was even more cryptic than he was, and my teacher inferred from context that cryptic meant "brief".

      Fortunately, she looked the word up in the dictionary by the next class meaning, and told us what she wanted.

      This was an intelligent woman with an interest in the English language, learning a word from context.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    50. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would have loved to have one of these when taking my Latin course in high-school, even more my classmates who took classics, greek seemed to be a real bitch.

      I somehow suspect that you have never bothered reading Cicero in his native language and yet you accuse others of being illiterate. Oh the irony.

    51. Re:But... by MrBigInThePants · · Score: 1

      You have failed to take my advice twice now.

      I wash my hands of you.

    52. Re:But... by blackicye · · Score: 1

      he problem with instant translation is that it undermines the choice of looking up or not. Memory comes from a really strong filter. Instant translations make you look up more words, many more than what your brain can remember. It's better you just learn 2 words from that book that will stay for life than 20 you'll have forgotten by tomorrow.

      I have a simple fix your this issue of yours, make the search more tedious by forcing the user (you) to solve a Sudoku puzzle before the dictionary will give you the definition.

    53. Re:But... by blackicye · · Score: 1

      and wow, I really need to use preview more.

    54. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love my basic e-reader. As you said, that touch on a word to get the definition is really handy, especially for arcane words used in classics. Although for James Joyce, I think you must need a special James Joyce dictionary. Reading Ulysses I gave up trying to get the definitions (Joyce makes up a lot of words). In that case it is better to letwordsflow

    55. Re:But... by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      For the record, these are normal magazine PDFs, and they look great. No conversion.

      The only PDFs I've had problems with are the size of Halliday, Fundamentals of Physics. Sometimes the display doesn't match the publisher's intent, but it is readable. On 6 year old tech.

    56. Re:But... by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      PDF is the standard for e-Ink. Reflowable should be something that PDF supports, but it doesn't.

      I think PDF needs to be better. It has a spot for glyph based output, and an optional spot for the text behind it. If Adobe is worth a shit, and it's not, but hypothetically, it would expose both the glyph output for display, and the text for re-flow.

      It's already available, it's just too new to be relevant, apparently.

      PDF has the capability, but most PDFs don't have this baked in. Either they were created by morons, or by people who want their content to be marginally readable.

      PDF is a way to present data. How people implement that data, or attempt to restrict, is a different thing.

      And I will now wash all of myself with lysol for complimenting the security hole of the last 15 years or more.

    57. Re:But... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      PDF is the standard for e-Ink.

      Where do you get this idea? The closest to a standard we have is ePub. Just because certain academic publishers have been using PDF does not make it a standard. Wide compatible support makes it a standard.

      Even Adobe InDesign export to ePub. It's built-in. If PDF is the better standard why would they bother? It's in their best interests for their own format to be an integral part of ebooks. Adobe is even a member of the International Digital Publishing Forum (IDPF) that created ePub.

      PDF is a format used by publishers who are too in love with their fixed layouts and don't want their content to reflow (PDF has reflowing text, but only within a single page). And page numbers matching between editions is too important for them. And really, fully reflowable content is not just a feature that can be added. It's a completely different way of thinking about the content- it would essentially throw out most of what makes PDF what it is.

      You're wanting all these things from PDF that it wasn't designed for and it doesn't have. If you want them, why do you reject a format that has these things? Keep PDF for fixed layout printing. It's what it's made for? Why are you clinging to PDF when it needs to be rewritten from the ground up to be what you want it to be?

  2. As a millenial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The entire supposition that we're all mildly autistic ADHD scatterbrains is idiotic. Anyone who's picked up an e-reader versus a book can easily tell what their preferences are, and millenials aren't some new mutant genotype.

    1. Re:As a millenial by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I read at least two novels a month (sometimes more if I get the time) on my tablet and my phone. Most of my reading is on my tablet, because it's a 7" and a damned good size to read on, but when I'm on the road, I'll use my phone. The app syncs between the two so I can swap between the two. I generally use the Kobo app, and by and large it hides the status bar at the top so I'm not bothered by incoming emails. I've never had a problem.

      Actually, the very first book I read on a portable device was a crappy little LG Keybo feature phone that I installed a nice little J2ME reader on. The font size was punched up a bit so I usually only got a paragraph of text per screen, but still didn't have any problem.

      I'll be honest, I haven't bought a physical book in over a year. Even the technical books; a Powershell book and the OpenVPN official manual, are all eBooks.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:As a millenial by AuMatar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I read several novels a month. But I wouldn't read a technical book on an ereader if you gave it to me for free and paid me to do it. And I've tried- I originally bought it thinking it would be great for tech books. But the slow speed of page switching, the inability to flip through pages rapidly, the reduced area per page all make it an unbearable experience. Ereaders are good for fiction reading, they're completely unsuitable for anything that isn't read beginning to end with no branching or backtracking.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    3. Re:As a millenial by Rinikusu · · Score: 2

      Damn right. I bought some tech books on my kindle and ended up buying the dead trees because I just can't get into poorly sized pictures (usually code blocks, etc) and what not. Granted, I don't buy any more dead tree *fiction* and love my ereader for that. I still prefer magazines over digital ezines (I subscribe to Interzone, for example, vs buying the e-version), too, and part of that is because I still like reading the ads.

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    4. Re:As a millenial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The entire supposition that we're all mildly autistic ADHD scatterbrains is idiotic.

      I agree. In my experience you're all wildly autistic ADHD scatterbrains.

    5. Re:As a millenial by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 0

      Are you a digital native? If not, you are not relevant to this study, and your opinion is not relevant to this discussion.

      If you are a digital native, you did not address the "for pleasure" part of the study.

      Do you believe that your experience is representative of the population studied? That your one life is an approximation of the studied population? If so, you really should have led off with that. Try again.

    6. Re:As a millenial by bananaquackmoo · · Score: 1

      You realize there are go-to page buttons right? And bookmarks? And highlighting? They're great for exactly what you say they aren't.

    7. Re:As a millenial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Are you a digital native?

      Most of the so called digital natives I've met are more accurately described as digital naives. They really, deeply don't understand the technology they use. They are for the most part unsophisticated consumers, which is of course profitable for the large IT companies.

    8. Re:As a millenial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's hostile and impolite. Go troll somewhere else.

    9. Re:As a millenial by narcc · · Score: 1

      Well, they aren't all that great. They're in the 'let you do it' category, which is decidedly different from 'let you do well it'. I like this analogy: I can tap out a message on a telegraph key, or I could use a keyboard. They both let you do the same thing, but one does the job significantly better than the other.

      The same thing is true for the e-reader vs the hard-copy, though in the case of the e-reader, you're dramatically more limited as there are fewer memory cues and navigation options of which you can take advantage. For example, you may not have placed a bookmark at a specific section, but you might remember "reading something about that", "close to the middle", "a few pages after that orangish picture near the bottom". With the e-reader, it's a guessing game: "what page was that on?" or "what section was that in" followed by a tedious one-page-at-a-time search. With the hard-copy, it's a couple quick flips along the edge.

      We're a long-way from replicating that. I love my kindle, sure, but I always buy a hard-copy of anything I find that's worth-while.

    10. Re:As a millenial by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Today's digital naive's are like the kids 30 years ago that knew how to program the VCR (I was one of them). Sure, the parents might still have a flashing 12:00 otherwise, but that doesn't make the kid fluent with technology except by comparison.

    11. Re:As a millenial by sh00z · · Score: 1

      ... in the case of the e-reader, you're dramatically more limited as there are fewer memory cues and navigation options of which you can take advantage. For example, you may not have placed a bookmark at a specific section, but you might remember "reading something about that", "close to the middle", "a few pages after that orangish picture near the bottom". With the e-reader, it's a guessing game: "what page was that on?" or "what section was that in" followed by a tedious one-page-at-a-time search. With the hard-copy, it's a couple quick flips along the edge.

      We're a long-way from replicating that. I love my kindle, sure, but I always buy a hard-copy of anything I find that's worth-while.

      I find the opposite to be true. Typically, I remember a word or phrase, or *fail* to recall a previous appearance of a minor character. The Search function of e-readers makes it dramatically faster to find a partially-recalled passage, or instance of a character's name.

    12. Re:As a millenial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there some intrinsic trait of being a "scatterbrain" that comes along with being autistic and co-morbidly ADHD?

    13. Re:As a millenial by werepants · · Score: 1

      "Digital Native" is one of the dumber buzzwords I've heard recently. It seems to amount to nothing much more than knowing how to use an iPod. I know plenty of people who grew up with technology and still use it like novices, and 70-year-olds that know all the shortcuts and use computers productively all day long. Being able to use an interface that was explicitly designed to be foolproof isn't something to be proud of. Understanding the real potential of digital technology (like automation and information processing) and being able to leverage it is something that most generations seem to be equally bad at.

    14. Re:As a millenial by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      Are you literate? If so, read my post and the parent post again. If not, stop posting on the internet, and stop talking while you're at it.

  3. If I were a publisher, I'd definitely agree by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But I'm not, and eBooks are awesome. I don't have physical space for dead trees in my house, and I can't imagine millenials are doing any better. Let's face it, most stuff we read for pleasure doesn't need to be recalled with anything other than casual clarity. We're not hanging on to carefully wordsmithed literature, we're reading mass market fiction with a good story but relatively low literary value.

    Publishers need to return their money to the shareholders so the rest of the world can get on with life.

    1. Re:If I were a publisher, I'd definitely agree by BenJeremy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I've whittled my paper library down to a little more than a bookshelf, everything else electronic. I'm tired of piles of magazines and technical books, likewise, all the odd-sized science fiction books I read strewn about.

      My tablet is handy, and when I finish one book or magazine, I have a selection from which to choose something new wherever I might be.

      As references, my technical books are far easier to pull up on my PC, and as a bonus, quickly searchable, even when the subject isn't in the index.

    2. Re:If I were a publisher, I'd definitely agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read the Iliad on an e-reader without any problem. I've actually read a couple of different translations, and they are all still right there. Nothing about an e-reader confines you to reading trash.

    3. Re:If I were a publisher, I'd definitely agree by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      And how else could I have taken War and Peace on a hiking vacation?

    4. Re:If I were a publisher, I'd definitely agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After the book "1984" was recalled and erased from my ebook reader without my authorization, I took that as a clear warning that ebook readers are not ready or safe for prime time.

      I'll be reading on paper until I get root by default. I won't vote with my wallet for things to keep heading in this direction.

    5. Re:If I were a publisher, I'd definitely agree by Goragoth · · Score: 2

      Get a Kobo, turn off WiFi and drop the ePubs onto the device via USB. That's what I do and no publisher has any control over it whatsoever. Currently reading World Without End this way, which clocks in at nearly 1000 pages and having seen the paper version I'm damn glad I don't have to read it that way. I'd probably sprain my wrists if I did, hefty as it is.

    6. Re:If I were a publisher, I'd definitely agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're not hanging on to carefully wordsmithed literature, we're reading mass market fiction with a good story but relatively low literary value.

      I'm really sorry for you then. But then again, it is probably a good description of the current book market, and maybe you didn't see yourself as belonging to the "we". Me try to evade clearly mass market fiction. Life too short. Really worthwhile books abundant.

      Buying books is more an act of *curating* books to me.

    7. Re:If I were a publisher, I'd definitely agree by Talderas · · Score: 1

      People here look at the functional benefit of e-readers without realizing the intangible benefit of paper books. It has nothing to do with the books themselves. The fact that you're reading a book is mostly a mild diversion to the true purpose of reading a book, which is to get laid. Just like everything involving getting laid, the book is a prop that demonstrates certain things about you and given some of the more common traits among millenials these days the right type of book can set you heads above others. This is a drastic change from the past because things associated with being a nerd or intelligent weren't always as highly prized in the past but such things are now considered in vogue.

      To a woman, reading a book gives you a sense of aloofness and makes you appear disarmed and less threatening which is good in a society where we seem to be constantly bombarded with men being predators. The construction style of the book (hardcover vs paperback) is one of the indicators they can use to identify your financial stability. People also know that hard covers take more space so if you do keep multiple books and prefer hardcover, a fact you should bring up, it's going to indicate taht you have the space to own and keep multiple hardcover copies, again another financial indicator. The type of book (nonfiction vs fiction) can further reinforce the security of your character. Reading a hardcover of Song of Fire and Ice isn't as good as reading a hardcover version of War and Peace but reading a paperback copy of War and Peace, if that even exists, is still better than reading a hardcover of Song of Fire and Ice. Reading a non-fiction book that is current politcal topic is usually a bad idea. You're going to alienate some women if their political views diverge from the book regardless of your personal views. So I would recommend avoid taking any books on a political figure that has been actived since about 1980. Most of the political figures from before 1980 aren't significant enough factors that ostracize millenials. I'm sure these other advantages that I'm missing but those are just the more obvious signs that can be picked up from books.

      e-Readers provide none of these benefits. At best you might get the financially stable bit because you purchased the device but the ebooks themselves are equivalent to paperback in the monetary value of hardcovers is simply not present. Though I really just look at how many women have ended up in my arms because of hard cover books and e-readers and I can say that based on my experience the hard cover book is vastly superior.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    8. Re:If I were a publisher, I'd definitely agree by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      I still like reading dead tree books, but they are a problem to store & transport. I had a stretch when I wasn't buying books because I had no place to put them. Now, I don't have to worry about that. I also only had one book to read while waiting in the waiting room or auto place. Now I have any book in my library, and can even buy something new on the road.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    9. Re:If I were a publisher, I'd definitely agree by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Which is one reason I got a Nook, where the terms of service are clear on what they can't do with stuff already on my Nook.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  4. I'm not sure what the article is about by jargonburn · · Score: 5, Funny

    I only skimmed the summary.

    1. Re:I'm not sure what the article is about by Obfuscant · · Score: 2, Funny

      I printed it out and read it at length. I still don't know what the article is about. I'm waiting for the movie version.

    2. Re:I'm not sure what the article is about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't even read the title. I just clicked on a page and scrolled down to this comment. I hope the movie is good.

    3. Re:I'm not sure what the article is about by ThePhilips · · Score: 1

      I only skimmed the summary.

      And it is good so, because it has nothing to do with "e-readers". Every single of the linked articles deals with the normal tablets, PCs and smartphones - e-readers are not even mentioned.

      As somebody who switched to the Kindle several years ago, I had hard time believing the headline. As it turned out, the headline is full of bullshit and is not related to the content of the article.

      --
      All hope abandon ye who enter here.
    4. Re:I'm not sure what the article is about by omnichad · · Score: 1

      The morons behind the article must not think that e-ink ereaders are a modern, contemporary device. Unitasking devices are great for certain things and this is one of those things.

    5. Re:I'm not sure what the article is about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get back to me when someone tweets it.

  5. but but but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3D printing and the post-singularity game changing private space colonies?

    1. Re:but but but by Baldorcete · · Score: 1

      I 3D print all my books.

  6. The temptation to jump ship by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative

    In her surveys, Baron was surprised by the results to the question of whether students were more likely to multitask in hard copy (1 percent) vs. reading on-screen (90 percent). "When a digital device has an Internet connection, it's hard to resist the temptation to jump ship."

    So get a Sony e-Reader (now super-cheap due to being abandoned) or a Nook Simple touch. They technically have internet access, but you can't really browse on them. Not because of the display, because of the browser.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:The temptation to jump ship by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      The Sony eReader (haven't tried the Nook) and the Kindle non-Fire's are also very easy on the eyes. You can read them in the gym or wherever just as easily as a dead tree, but wipe them clean, they won't absorb sweat.

      I can understand not wanting to read on phones/iPads/computer displays sometimes, they can give headaches and in my case mild nausea if I'm in the gym or something like that. I'm very sensitive to this sort of thing, but I think to a degree everyone gets fatigued by computer displays. In addition to being somewhat less distracting, these eReaders are just easier on your eyes...

    2. Re:The temptation to jump ship by LessThanObvious · · Score: 1

      I like the E-Ink readers like Kindle for the same reasons of eye strain. I do often end up reading books for study purposes on the Kindle for PC client as I find it faster to add highlights and turn pages on the PC. What I'd really like would be a larger format E-Ink device with two 8.5 by 11" screens so it lays out just like the book and rescanning the previous page becomes easier. Then I just need a pen style touch input to make easy highlights of text I need to reference again. As it is, even my 9.7" Kindle DX just isn't enough visual real estate for technical study that often has large diagrams. I often end up throwing it on my 23" monitor despite how much I hate LCD screens for reading.

    3. Re:The temptation to jump ship by blackest_k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Kind of the problem with ereaders is pdf files all seem formatted for A4 paper and are pretty bad on a computer screen and even worse on an ereader like looking at a room through a letterbox.

      reformatting them is a nightmare too.
       

    4. Re:The temptation to jump ship by LessThanObvious · · Score: 1

      In that case, update my wishlist ereader to two A4 size screens "A4 measuring 210 by 297 millimetres (8.27 in Ã-- 11.7 in)."

    5. Re:The temptation to jump ship by blackest_k · · Score: 1

      could probably cut that down to 6.27 by 9.7 (theres usually an inch of margin on most pages.

    6. Re:The temptation to jump ship by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      A 14" (or better yet, 13.5") 4:3 ratio screen would work great for an e-reader: it would be big enough to display a whole sheet of paper (either A4 or letter, I think) and still have room for menus and whatnot along the edges.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    7. Re:The temptation to jump ship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Kind of the problem with ereaders is pdf files all seem formatted for A4 paper and are pretty bad on a computer screen and even worse on an ereader like looking at a room through a letterbox.

      reformatting them is a nightmare too.

      No, the problem is people who insist on supplying PDF format files to an ereader. Like those idiotic "web designers" who insist they must have absolute control over the layout in which their content is displayed.

      Markup the text and let my device decide how it wants to place the text on its screen. Now if only we had a decent text markup language defined somewhere...

    8. Re:The temptation to jump ship by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The Adobe reader on the NST, for all its various flaws, is pretty good at reflowing even PDFs which are not designed to be reflowable.

      Anyone who publishes a PDF made with Adobe tools which is not reflowable is a dillhole, although I realise that this is small comfort when you're trying to read.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:The temptation to jump ship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can read them in the gym or wherever just as easily as a dead tree, but wipe them clean, they won't absorb sweat.

      If you are reading at the gym, you are doing it wrong. Both things to be clear.

    10. Re:The temptation to jump ship by ADRA · · Score: 1

      Yup, PDF's are bad on e-readers, but at least you can transcode them to native using something like calibre. Its not perfect obviously, but a whole lot better than suffering throught the squinting problem.

      --
      Bye!
    11. Re:The temptation to jump ship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but I think to a degree everyone gets fatigued by computer displays.

      I don't.

      Except, when I'm sick. But I think that's more about just having my eyes being opened instead of resting/sleeping.

      Actually, there was a couple of weeks when I was sick and my dual 27 inch displays were making me feel notably tired very fast. However, the effect did not occur when I looked at a projector screen.

      I'm in my late thirties. All that hooplah threat about dangers like carpel tunnel syndrome just didn't seem to apply. I've been a heavy computer user (very often over 12 hours a day), and fared well. I consider myself lucky for not experiencing many of the problems that I felt textbooks threatened me with when I was in middle/high school.

      Actually, my left arm was pretty sore for a couple of weeks when I devoted myself to being a master at the Killer Instinct 2 arcade. I played that a ton, and so the super-frequent right-down-left-right as-fast-as-you-can movement was pretty hard on me. But I relented, and got better. No long-lasting damage, and no similar issues ever happened since. (That was something like 18 years ago.)

      So, getting back to the topic of eyes... I find that I have no desire for eyeglasses; I simply have no need for such a thing, as I still have great vision. Rather overweight from all the computing I've done in my life, but haven't experienced eyestrain from looking at a display lots and lots.

      Today, I primarily use a projector (10-12 foot / 3-4 meter display), with a belief that nice big letters will probably cause my eyes to have less of a need to feel any substantial strain as I get older.

      I don't doubt the people who make claims that they are affected. But I can genuinely say that I haven't been. So, from my own personal experience, I disagree with your text that I quoted.

      For my own sake, I hope I'm right.

    12. Re:The temptation to jump ship by xyzzymage · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. I read on my Nook Touch while listening to high-energy music for the 30-45 min I'm on a cardio machine so the time just flies by, then I put it away and use the various weight machines. I'm motivated to actually show up twice a week by the chance to focus completely & without interruption on reading & then thinking about a book, and the feeling of mental peace I often have for the rest of the evening. If had to rely on fitness classes or outdoor sports instead, I'd exercise once or twice a season at best.

    13. Re:The temptation to jump ship by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

      ^this. An non-wired, dedicated e-reader removes the distraction. An an e-ink reader is far easier on the eyes over the long term than backlit displays. It still won't help with the issue of a book being three dimensional vs 2.

    14. Re:The temptation to jump ship by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Well - PDF's can't be made to be reflowable either. The format is designed for print and absolutely fixed layouts. PDF doesn't really even have a concept of a paragraph. But Adobe InDesign, the tool most likely used to publish the book and make the PDF can generate ereader formats too and they have plenty of information on how to make that content look good on both formats without throwing out the existing layout entirely.

    15. Re:The temptation to jump ship by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Well - PDF's can't be made to be reflowable either.

      PDFs could be made reflowable since at least Acrobat 5.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    16. Re:The temptation to jump ship by omnichad · · Score: 1

      To some extent. They can reflow within a single page (not that publishers are even providing that). So one page can take up 4 screens on an ereader. But when you get to the end of the page, you see blank space until you flip pages and it starts on the next physical page.

    17. Re:The temptation to jump ship by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      This is exactly what I do and it works fine. The gym rats laugh but it hardly matters, what matters is the yearly physical and the readout of numbers. As long as those are good, I'm doing enough.

  7. I'll take this one lying down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Much of my recreational reading involves reading in bed just before I go to sleep. Being able to relax by lying down while I read is a huge benefit of my e-reader. Try reading both the left and right page, while lying down and holding a traditional book with one hand. Not easy.

    1. Re:I'll take this one lying down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Christ, I've been doing exactly that for 40 years, IT ISN'T THAT HARD.

    2. Re:I'll take this one lying down by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      It's not "hard" in the sense that I couldn't read books before the e-readers, but still an unnecessary annoyance now that e-readers are available.
      When I'm eating breakfast for instance, It's nice to not be using one hand to hold the book open.

  8. Don't buy it by drgnbear · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Considering that most likely 2/3 of the people polled are textbook publishers and bookstore owners, and 1/3 students that isn't a surprising finding, How about JUST polling readers.

    1. Re:Don't buy it by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Funny

      Don't be a silly bastard. If you did that, you would get the actual answer to the question you're posing, and not the answer you want.

      Jesus, what a unsophisticated provincial type you are.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re: Don't buy it by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Sigh.... I need the blinking "This Is Irony" sign.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  9. ut bright lights keep me awake. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I read to go to sleep, it's paper all the way. The bright light of 'ereaders' keeps me awake.

    Dead Trees for the win - or used toilet paper.

    I have an iPad and its the best all around reader ever - Kindle, Nook, Zinio, ePub, etc .... It paid for itself within a year - at least the iPad2 did.

    BUT....it keeps me awake. I pull out the dead tree books when I need to sleep.

    My Library comes to my rescue in that case.

    1. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by Trogre · · Score: 4, Informative

      Anyone reading screens at night should already have an automatic redshifter installed, unless you explicitly need to stay awake for some reason. I use them for all my desktops, laptops and tablets.

      The difference on your eyes is, pun intended, night and day.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    2. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LCD backlights (including kindle) bleed too much blue light for a redshifter to work.

    3. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by Cammi · · Score: 0

      Examples of a automatic red shifter? Never heard of that before.

    4. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by MrBigInThePants · · Score: 3, Funny

      f.lux

      No, I am not swearing at you. The software is research based also, not just a gimmick.

      Of course this does not mean it is 100% bulletproof

    5. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by Trogre · · Score: 1

      On desktops and laptops I use redshift-gtk. It sits in the background and gradually adjusts the gamma of your screen based on your longitude/latitude and the time of day. There is an icon in the system tray that you can click to manually turn it off to see the difference or if you briefly have a need to see colour-accurate content.

      I don't recall what one I have used for Android, though I have used Nightfilter in the past that works well (though manual).

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    6. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Even with the backlight turned right down? I have never seen this happen to such a degree that makes a redshifter ineffective, though I don't own a Kindle so perhaps it's specific to those.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    7. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I don't recall what one I have used for Android, though I have used Nightfilter in the past that works well (though manual).

      It's called twilight. It works pretty well, I haven't had any problems with it yet.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      I like reading on screens because it keeps me awake. I also get a consistent reading experience without having to search for that corner with exactly the right light. And I can queue multiple books and magazines up in a device without adding to the weight, so I never run out of reading or forget to bring the book I'm on.

    9. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by Xolotl · · Score: 1

      redshift-gtk on Linux and f.lux on Windows (although nowadays there is an f.lux version for Linux, but I'm used to redshift). Both use geolocation/entered geographical coordinates to match the changing color balance to your local day night cycle, and have adjustable day and night color temperature. Both work very well and considerably reduce eyestrain when working at night, and are set-up once and forget. I recommend them to everyone who spends hours in front of a screen.

      (for Android I have Screen Filter, it doesn't do the reddening but it does darken the screen beyond what the usual bright control can do.)

    10. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plain redshift works.
      Just install it, and run it once. You'll forget about it, and get used to it so much, that you'll feel like gouging your eyes out when looking at someone elses' screen.

    11. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by StrangeBrew · · Score: 5, Informative

      Thinking of an tablet as an eReader is your problem. In my opinion a true eReader uses electronic ink technology, not a back-lit LCD screen. You do not get the 'keeps me awake' problem when using an eReader. With an eReader you must either read by an external light source, the same way you would with a paper book, or utilize one of the eReaders underlit with a 'glo' light that also doesn't impede sleep.

    12. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      BUT....it keeps me awake. I pull out the dead tree books when I need to sleep.

      If you're reading alot then you should get a non-backlit ereader. Even though tablets are more expensive
      and outsell dedicated ereaders, tablets are a poor substitute for a real ereader.

    13. Re:ut bright lights keep me awake. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The backlight on my eInk reader doesn't seem to keep me awake (depending on what I'm reading, of course).

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  10. The distraction argument makes no sense by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    I can be distracted while reading a paper book just as easily as I can be distracted while reading on my Kindle.

    Something smells funny here... you might almost think they didn't look at dedicated e-readers at all, but only at multifunction devices such as phones or tablets. Nah, no researcher would be that sloppy, right?

    Who exactly funded this research again?

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:The distraction argument makes no sense by Shados · · Score: 1

      They were definitely referring to android/iOS tablets, which have all these push notifications and easy access to everything all the time, which is definately distracting to the average person. The average person also uses those as e-readers. A few years ago in the subway all you saw was kindles. Now you see a few (I see a bunch every day), but they're definitely outnumbered by people reading books on ipads or on their phones.

      I'm still addicted to my kindle though and is my device of choice during my commute. The tablet is for when I want to browse the web.

    2. Re:The distraction argument makes no sense by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      If I took the subway/bus, I'd read on my iphone because that's what I have with me. At home, I can read on my iPad, but I'm more likely to read on my Kindle.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  11. Searching in text by Sowelu · · Score: 2

    Searching is the killer app of e-readers (or just PDFs) to me. Even if I have a physical book, which is sometimes easier to reference, I like having a PDF that I can search in. Fiction, nonfiction, reference manual...doesn't matter, still want search.

  12. Love that paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've used both ebooks and paper. Dead trees are satisfying in a way that electronic books just are not. However, I can carry a much larger libary in my phone then I ever will in paper. I still haunt the used book stores. Much better feeling when reading.

    For me. Your milage may differ.

  13. I smell horse poopie by jaredthegeek · · Score: 0

    As a student working on an MBA I read on a tablet without distraction just fine. If more textbooks were available on a kindle then I would have bought a standard Kindle over using a Dell Venue 8 Pro. My school offers all the textbooks as part of tuition electronically. Comprehension does not fail due to it being digital over a paper copy. People don't know how to read and learn anymore. In the digital format you could also integrate quizzes and testing throughout the book, highlighting is great and adding options to build a bibliography from a text quote would be amazing. This just strikes me as something that people lie about in a survey. They want to appear more intellectual so they say I love the smell of books. A textbook weighs a ton so I would rather have one little device that has all my books in it that I can carry in a bag without breaking my back.

    1. Re: I smell horse poopie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't get it, what does this have to do with horses?

  14. Non-readers love "real books" by iceperson · · Score: 4, Funny

    My librarian wife and I are both pretty avid readers and we both use e-readers for vast majority of our reading. Inevitably someone will see us in the doctor office waiting room or some other place reading our ebooks and tell us how they prefer "real books". That's when I like to ask them what the last book they read was and chuckle to myself when they get that deer in the headlights look.

    1. Re:Non-readers love "real books" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So at least one person (maybe even... two or three?!) who prefers dead-tree books may not read very often.

      This anecdote is (Score: 4, Interesting), so clearly I'm an idiot who fails to see how this can be non-hastily generalised to the hundreds of millions of people who are happy without e-readers.

      I have had a Kindle for years. In the last month, I have read one book on it - on antennas and propagation. In my bathroom, where a hell of a lot of reading gets done, I am currently multitasking my way through six books, from smuggler fiction (yarh!) to Biology for Dummies (so I never did much biology...). These are all very dead and slightly damp tree. The Kindle reading experience is much more difficult because I absorb books by familiarising myself with the pages and their position in the physical book, not just taking in the words - i.e. as this article so clearly describes. If I read something on the Kindle, it's usually because I can't find an affordable dead tree copy.

    2. Re:Non-readers love "real books" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A librarian that does not value paper. That is like a cardiovascular surgeon that eats a pound of bacon every day. I want my children and grandchildren to have the books I purchased and read. Those digital formats will be gone in just a few years while I have books older than my country.

    3. Re:Non-readers love "real books" by Chewbacon · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I read probably more than everyone else in my circle of friends/family (except for some in graduate school) and I love e-readers. I recently spent $5 more on a text book that came in Kindle format not because reselling books is so shitty now, but because I could easily browse notes/highlights and bookmarks.

      A class I'm taking now required me to buy the specific texts because they would reference page numbers in the books. I'll tell you it's hard going back to paper. Some of them are printed on cheap paper and it dries your finger tips, ink rubs off on you, and then there's breaking in the new books so they're comfortable to hold and read.

      --
      Chewbacon
      The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
    4. Re:Non-readers love "real books" by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      I can definitely see the advantages that hard copy text books would have over e-ink displays. I don't do much reading of that sort anymore though and so my kindle suits me very well. It has a built in light if I'm reading in a darker space, I can adjust the font size if my eyes are tired, and it is smaller than many of the books I read physically. I can keep a whole library on it at any given time so that I can pick what I want to read based on the time I have, I like to read short stories on my lunch break, but I can read novels with larger blocks of time, all from the same device instead of carrying multiple books.

    5. Re:Non-readers love "real books" by werepants · · Score: 1

      In the last month I read 3-4 novels, which is pretty typical. No e-reader here. Although, I don't disparage people who prefer e-readers, I just find plain old paper books work for me. One big reason is that I really enjoy trips to the library. I enjoy browsing physically because I get exposed to a greater variety of books I might be interested in (Amazon recommendations, for instance, seem to repeat themselves), and because checking out 3-4 books in a trip gives me just the right level of urgency to help me stay motivated to read books instead of leaving them sitting on the shelf.

      As a counterexample, I got a tablet and one of the first things I did was load up the Kindle app and all sorts of interesting public domain and free books, and I've made it through half of one book before getting frustrated with the format and giving up. I also have no sense of urgency for any of it because there are thousands of books available to me but no deadline.

      Just saying - I read quite a bit and I really enjoy doing it the old-fashioned way.

    6. Re:Non-readers love "real books" by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      A librarian that does not value paper. That is like a cardiovascular surgeon that eats a pound of bacon every day.

      Librarians value knowledge, not paper; the paper is just a medium. Also, saturated fat isn't bad for your heart (in fact the evidence is leaning towards it being good for your HDL/LDL ratio), and bacon is actually a common occurrence in low carb breakfasts.

      I want my children and grandchildren to have the books I purchased and read. Those digital formats will be gone in just a few years while I have books older than my country.

      PDF and ePUB aren't going anywhere. There's a distinction to be made between ebooks and DRM, in much the same way as there is between digital music (MP3, AAC, etc.) and DRM.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
  15. E Ink vs LCD/OLED by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There needs to be a distinction made between E Ink vs LCD/OLED screens.

    Whilst I'm not a millennial, I do enjoy reading. I can't really get into reading large amounts of text on an LCD or OLED screen whereas I read almost every night on a Kindle with an E Ink screen. On the other hand, I can't enjoy reading news and current affairs on the Kindle - it's better on an iPad or computer screen.

    Reading on a Kindle is a lot more like reading a dead tree book. There are less distractions and the screen is easier on your eyes, particularly when reading in bright sunlight or in a darkened room.

    1. Re:E Ink vs LCD/OLED by xpax666 · · Score: 1

      This was my first thought, too. I can't stand reading ebooks on an iPad, it's too bright even on the lowest setting and eye fatigue sets in. It might help if people would learn that generally speaking, black text on a white background is wrong. This was understood in the 80s, but when GUIs came along, and didn't look as nice with white on black -- logic went out the window.

      I liken it to skeuomorphism -- trying to make the screen look like paper. Why? Makes no sense to be blinded by a monitor turned spotlight. The only place this scheme makes sense is on e-ink readers which won't cause eye strain because they aren't backlit.

    2. Re:E Ink vs LCD/OLED by mark-t · · Score: 1

      When they can make a practical (that is, affordable) non-emissive display that has screen update times that are fast enough as to be visually imperceptible, so that it is possible to pan or zoom around a page where you may want to look at small details in an illustration interactively, for example, and one that supports full color, I'll be all over that.

      While books can't do the former either, at least I can bring them as close as I want to my face to improve clarity, while just viewing a page at a given zoom level and moving it closer to your face just makes the pixels bigger, and doesn't actually enhance the image in any way.

    3. Re:E Ink vs LCD/OLED by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not the point of the "research". They have a point to prove on behalf of physical book publishers. Anything that seperates e-ink devices from the other devices won't fit their required resutls.

      We've been seeing this result several time a year, each coming from publishers, each failing to treat deadicated e-readers as a class seperate from tablets and smartphones.

      Furthermore, they'll often use books that aren't suitable for e-readers, such as technical references with diagramatic content, and full colour magazines and comics.

    4. Re:E Ink vs LCD/OLED by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Full page color illustrations isn't the primary use case for ereaders. Some of us read books without pictures.

    5. Re:E Ink vs LCD/OLED by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Not all of the illustrations in the books that I read are necessarily full page, but most of the books that I read usually make at least a modest use of color to convey additional information that would not be anywhere remotely as clear if everything were in shades of grey... hell, even Stroustrup makes use of color to a limited extent, making browsing through the text for particular information that might not happen to be specifically indexed many times easier. Not every page is splashed with color, obviously, but where and when color is used, it is important that the information is being conveyed.

      Of course... it's much easier to dismiss a demographic as being unimportant than it is to consider their points as having any merit, so your remark is actually entirely understandable... and probably the viewpoint that ereader manufacturers have as well.

      I stand by what I said above, however... if somebody makes a practical and at least reasonably affordable full color ereader with a fast enough screen update time that it is viable to implement an interactive user-interface that is both intuitive and does not have any perceptible delay between action and visual response, I'll be all over it like tide on dirty laundry.

  16. I prefer different formats for different things by kimgkimg · · Score: 2

    I prefer eBooks for pleasure reading because of the convenience of packaging mostly. I like the fact that I can take a whole library of books with me and choose which ones I read on a whim. Reading for pleasure is also a serial activity where you read through the book from start to finish with very little back flipping. For studying however, I prefer the physical books as you can dog-ear, color-code post-it, highlight sections for quick reference. Yes eReaders have search and bookmarking capabilities, but I just don't find it as convenient as going back to my yellow post-it half way in the last chapter which I've scribbled with a keyword.

  17. E-INK PROMISES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    anybody know of a good eInk reader, 10" size, with good pdf support? still looking after all these years. the kindle DX came closest, but had crap for pdf support. wish they had kept it going.

  18. Format matters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just started grad school. I decided to buy my textbook for my kindle fire tablet rather than a physical copy because it was cheaper.

    The digital copy is basically a scan of the physical book. It's not formatted for the screen at all. I must zoom in on each page to read it and it's rather tedious. If I read the book on my android tablet, i can at least make out the text without zooming but it's small print. I must lock the orientation because half the charts are sideways!

    I also can't read it via web browser like some amazon books because they DRM'd it too much!

    The bias could be due to the horrible way that some publishers format their books. A few bad experiences like this and it would stop anyone from buying a digital book again.

  19. Corgi Prefers Books by avandesande · · Score: 4, Funny

    Our Corgi chewed up my entire GOT collection but won't touch an e-reader.

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  20. The Case Against the Ebook in Higher Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its not that complex.

    Price: investing in a 'dead-tree' version of your education materials is exactly that, its an investment. One many expect to get a return on later by selling it back to the bookstore at the end of the semester, especially as prices on textbooks in the US continues to skyrocket. You cannot sell back ebooks.

    Size: textbooks have a lot of information to impart, the per-page size is usually rather large, unlike pleasure-reading materials which are arranged in simple chapters and paragraphs, textbooks include graphic elements. On a 7 inch screen this leaves a lot to be desired, having to zoom constantly to read and refer to info-graphics is tiresome. This gets better on larger devices but many want the portability of smaller tablets, also the lower price point for these devices is a factor.

    Usability: Ok so you got an ebook, now what? Can you do inline notations? Highlighting? Doodle? Is skipping pages easy or difficult (as a lot of core subjects tend to cover parts of a textbook and not all, you do a LOT of page skipping)? Physical textbooks are able to do all of this with nothing more than your hands and a pen. Ebooks software is generally horrible and non-standardized at all. Mostly in an effort to retain market dominance in a market that shouldn't have any dominant players...its software. Imagine each publisher using completely different formats for physical books. So some never use the backside of a page for the next page, others laminate all pages, another one prints from back to front (but still in the normal left to right reading format), etc. This is basically what you get with competing e-reader software. And it is ridiculous. the Music industry isn't like this, every single mp3 player has basically the same controls and options because that is what people want. The way some e-reader software works i half believe the people who made it do not actually know how to read.

    All that said, i love ebooks. I use a 7-inch tablet and my phone to read, for pleasure and education. But for hard-core learning, i have to go the full-sized computer or laptop for e-textbooks to be able to use them with any degree of ease and comfort. Its little wonder the Gadget Generation still wants to use physical books too.

  21. Luddites can keep their dead trees. by kuzb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For me, being able to haul around thousands of books and references on a 200 gram e-ink device that goes weeks on a single charge, syncs my current page to all other devices, allows access to dictionaries and wikipedia, and allows easy annotations outweighs all other potential benefits of classic books.

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
    1. Re:Luddites can keep their dead trees. by zidium · · Score: 1

      These idiots wonder why the Kindle Fire is *killing* ebook adoption. Talk about Amazon killing its baby!!

      I still buy Kindle Touches, cuz they're the latest device that has full Text-To-Speech functionality in an eink.

      --
      Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
    2. Re:Luddites can keep their dead trees. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once again, I don't see why we can't have it both ways. I'm currently reading a book on my phone, a different book on my tablet, and have an eReader that I never really use because I don't keep it with me since I have my phone+tablet around.

      I still prefer reading paper books if they're around, though. If someone is buying me a gift I'd much rather prefer a paper book than a digital file. It's actually been a couple of years since I've had that convenience, thanks to having young children around, unless you count a hard copy of The Cat in the Hat, but I still prefer it.

    3. Re:Luddites can keep their dead trees. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enjoy your priced fixed ebook titles that cost more than the dead tree version. Then you have the added bonus can't buy used ebooks, nor can you sell it or lend it to friends without having to beg the DRM gods for permission.

    4. Re:Luddites can keep their dead trees. by Yunzil · · Score: 1

      So do those dictionaries you have access to define Luddite as anyone who doesn't want yet another electronic device that they have to worry about?

    5. Re:Luddites can keep their dead trees. by mydn · · Score: 1

      I just used Google on my Kindle Paperwhite to find that 200 grams is just over 7 ounces. That's a nice device you have there!

    6. Re:Luddites can keep their dead trees. by johanw · · Score: 1

      However, you can download ebooks fro torrentsites and sites like Mobilism for free. That's a clear advantage over a paper book.

    7. Re:Luddites can keep their dead trees. by kuzb · · Score: 1

      I'm still using my original kindle. There hasn't been a very strong incentive to upgrade it yet. Still works great with whispernet, and performance has remained pretty solid over time.

      --
      BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
  22. Rather buy paperbacks by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    But I always buy the textbook. If the class is just one semester, I buy a used copy.

    Same goes for reference texts.

    The rest I get at the library or a bookstore. Paperbacks preferred, but Picketty's Capital isn't out in paperback yet.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  23. Guess I am a dead tree-er by EdwardFurlong · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I like having and reading physical books. I really can't explain why, so I do not have much to contribute.

  24. Nope... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I prefer reading on my tablet.

  25. When a digital device has a... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "When a digital device has an Internet connection, it's hard to resist the temptation to jump ship" to me is not an indication of the reader being tempted to jump ship. If the person who wrote the book is so incapable of creating a story (*cough* *Twilight* *cough* *Too Many Shades of Bad Writing* *cough*) with a plot or characters that can't hold the readers interest, it is only natural that the reader will "jump ship." The challenge to today's authors - people who actually know how to write and not just type words into notepad - is to create stories compelling enough to make the reader forget that their device has an internet connection. There are some authors out there, like Cory Doctorow, whose books have to be read near internet connection, but that is due to the nature of their plots and should not be construed as a failure of the writers. It is not possible to fully explain the background of a story like Little Brother or Homeland in situ without losing a reader in the details or devolving into a bad parody of Tolkien's "two and a half pages to describe a soup" writing style.

    When it comes to e-readers and e-reader apps - glossy screen devices are either toys or for quickly looking something up before going back to playing Angry Birds or Candy Crush, non-glare screens are what you want if you are reading for enjoyment.

    I do have to admit that the I find the tangible aspects of opening a physical book are bit more pleasurable than turning on a e-reader.

    1. Re:When a digital device has a... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      The article was about textbooks. Not exactly captivating devices. And they didn't make one mention of e-ink devices.

  26. "This bias surprises reading experts" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well I guess they're not really experts if they were surprised...

  27. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have to agree, my fellow AC. I love my Kindle.

  28. Not all bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I buy dead tree editions of books I expect I'll want to keep for the long-term. But things that will be obsolete (and replaced) in 3 or 4 years will generally be electronic.

    One thing I've yet to see anyone mention is the ability of ebook readers to change font size. For folks who have poor eyesight, like me, that's a tremendous benefit.

  29. eReaders are functionally bad by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    Having the ability to touch any word on the screen and have definitions, translations, and wikipedia entries pop up as you read (which is great for many of the older books) is a fantastic benefit over and beyond the simple fact that so many of the world's classics are available free of charge wherever you have internet access is a bonus that can't be overlooked. Honestly, in terms of studying books such as Gibbon's Fall of the Roman Empire, I find myself eternally grateful for such capabilities.

    I agree wholeheartedly that the eBook experience *could* be much better than physical books, but it isn't.

    As an experiment, I recently picked up a reader and tried it (Sony eReader). Here's what I found:

    1. .) The contrast is lousy, it's reading with a piece of slightly frosted glass between you and the text
    2. .) The reflected glare is awful. You can't read wearing a white shirt, for example.
    3. .) Every time the system powers up it has to run through the database making a hash of each file it finds. This can take upwards of an hour, depending on the number and complexity of items, and during which the system cannot be used.
    4. .) It always shows PDFs at "fill the screen" resolution, which means that the margins of the original page are always visible, which means that most of the display area is wasted. I can "zoom" individual pages, but to go to the next page I have to get out of zoom and then reapply the zoom to the next page.
    5. .) Using the "small-medium-large" setting scales the font, but not the formatting. Characters and words become larger, but the "breaks" at the original margins are still there, meaning that the lines break at odd places and waste much of the display area.
    6. .) Finding a specific place in a book is time consuming and inefficient. The first 30 physical pages of a book are usually things I want to skip (contents, publisher, title page, foreward, &c) and going forward to find the transition from meta to actual content is tedious. You can't just say "go to the start of text". In a real book you flib forward/back at high speed until the character of the pages change.
    7. .) Finding a referenced diagram, equation, or image is nigh impossible. Flipping forward (or back) 3 pages to see a chart of graph is easy in a physical book - you just put your finger in that place and you can go back-and-forth whenever you need.
    8. .) Reading scientific papers where the charts/diagrams are at the end of the document is highly inconvenient.
    9. .) Finding a specific place *mentioned* in a book is nigh impossible. If the contents say "Chapter 5 is on page 120", then you have to go to *physical* page 120 and then flip forward or back until you find what you're looking for. If the contents say "figure 120" and you're looking at "figure 4", it's too time consuming to find it. (I'm currently reading a book in PDF format that does this.)
    10. All in all, I haven't used my eReader much.

      It might be OK for narrative stories, light paperback reading that you can do in a dentist's office, and if it's a modern eBook written with proper formatting, but for anything remotely sophisticated it's insufficient.

    1. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, um, no one uses a Sony eReader. Everyone uses Kindles.

    2. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by jsrjsr · · Score: 2

      Try a real e-reader, not that Sony piece of crap. I would have thrown that Sony against the wall the first time it took an hour to do anything. Try a bottom-end Kindle. It's way better than what you describe.

    3. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by David_Hart · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Having the ability to touch any word on the screen and have definitions, translations, and wikipedia entries pop up as you read (which is great for many of the older books) is a fantastic benefit over and beyond the simple fact that so many of the world's classics are available free of charge wherever you have internet access is a bonus that can't be overlooked. Honestly, in terms of studying books such as Gibbon's Fall of the Roman Empire, I find myself eternally grateful for such capabilities.

      I agree wholeheartedly that the eBook experience *could* be much better than physical books, but it isn't.

      As an experiment, I recently picked up a reader and tried it (Sony eReader). Here's what I found:

      Um... well. .. well, There’s Your Problem....

      I've had a Kindle for 5 years now. My first was the Kindle keyboard. I now have the new Kindle Voyage. Not only that, but I can actually speak to the topic of using a Kindle for University as I bought text books for one of my Masters Degree classes, as an experiment.

      - The Kindle e-reader has no glare. In fact, the e-Ink screen is SO good that you can read outside in bright sunshine with no problems whatsoever. I love being able to read on the beach.
      - The Kindle is instant on when in sleep mode and can last for weeks. Just make sure to turn Wifi off.
      - You can look up words
      - I'm not sure how well it handles PDF files as I never use it for that. That's what I have my Android tablet for.
      - You have all kinds of text formatting options with the Kindle
      - You can easily bookmark locations in the Kindle and got back to that exact spot.

      The Kindle is great for reading books. It lets you annotate, you can perform search, etc.

      That being said, it isn't a book. With a book you can highlight, dog ear, make notes in the margins, etc. When I used a Kindle for my Masters course, I found that it was very good in some respects. For example, you don't have to carry a heavy book with you, it's more convenient to read when in the office, you can search for terms and look them up, etc. However, note taking was too restrictive. You can't, for example, draw a diagram or draw on the existing diagram. It's easier to find a place/topic in a book by just flipping through it or dogearing a page. You can use different colored highlighters, etc.

      One of these days Amazon will come out with a touch screen color e-ink e-reader with a stylus that lets you create free-form notes. When you can actually take hand written notes in class and insert those notes as pages in between the actual pages of the e-textbook, that's when you will see e-readers take off as text book replacements.

    4. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you don't get it! They got a Yugo and it was broken as they drove it off the lot, so all cars have to suck that bad. :P I read about a week ago a whine from someone about how bad the kindle was because their pirated books had lousy images.

      My what an egocentric and ignorant world we live in.

    5. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      So apparently you have a crappy device, I'm not sure why you think that would apply to other less crappy devices.

      I own some crappy books in which the cheap binding glue sees pages fall out, does that mean the physical book experience is universally terrible?

    6. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you are only reading badly formatted PDFs. Not ideal for an e-reader. My Sony e-reader definitely reformats text and changes line breaks when I ramp up the font size, but that is using the proper format for the device. They also have a proper table of contents to allow you to navigate by chapters etc (by touch) and you can insert your own bookmarks. The integration with the Kobo online store is now very good and the PC software is much, much better (it used to be truly diabolical) That said, e-readers aren't ideal for technical publications, no doubt about it. For a start they are usually physically smaller. Horses for courses...

    7. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      I read on an iPad Mini, so your first five objections go away. The others are a matter of interface implementation, which will improve with time as software developers learn what functions the reading public wants (indicate pages remaining in chapter? Touch to identify word or character?)

    8. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by dbIII · · Score: 1

      There's probably an update to fix most of those things since they don't seem to have been observed much by others. The "white shirt" thing makes me wonder if you are just taking the piss instead discussing something real - I have not observed such a thing even in full subtropical sunlight (where an LCD is useless - bring on the eink phone so I don't have to go into the shade just to see the virtual button to answer a call).
      However the PDF thing could be a real issue since some require a ridiculous amount of processing power to render and some are even encapsulated bitmaps that look like crap at anything other than native resolution - epub, mobi etc are formats that ereaders are better at rendering.
      Also the size of most of them is designed for "light paperback reading" since you can't fit an A4 sized journal article on the things without being too small or losing formatting. The larger devices like the Boox M92/96 are for that sort of thing and can rotate sideways, zoom to a box defined by two points etc and have enough CPU grunt to handle a lot of badly formatted PDF files

    9. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by omnichad · · Score: 1

      If the contents say "figure 120" and you're looking at "figure 4", it's too time consuming to find it.

      I'm not saying PDF is even a proper ereader format, but it does have hyperlinks. If the contents say figure 120, tap on that text. If that doesn't work, it's not the ereader's fault (it's the publisher). Once you're done viewing figure 120, hit the previous location button and you're back where you left off.

    10. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by omnichad · · Score: 1

      It's a little slow handling PDF. I have a paperwhite. It has the same margin issue as the Sony ereader. But is that a problem with the ereader or the publisher? The page numbers are usually in the margin for one thing since that's the way the physical page is laid out. Publishers need to move away from PDF to something reflowable like the common HTML-based ebook formats. If the publisher uses InDesign (likely), I know they've already laid out plenty of tools for exporting to a better ereader format than PDF without redesigning the physical book.

    11. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by neurovish · · Score: 1

      Try a real e-reader, not that Sony piece of crap. I would have thrown that Sony against the wall the first time it took an hour to do anything. Try a bottom-end Kindle. It's way better than what you describe.

      The first e-reader I had was a Sony touch. It worked really well for me, but I'm also just reading fiction on it and not scientific journals. It never took an hour to start up for me. I tried using it with the europe lonely planet ebook on a road trip once, and it was a bit useless since the maps and any images took forever to load. That sort of thing is not really what it was designed for though. For just reading normal books, it was great. I liked it better than the Nook and Kindle offerings at the time.

    12. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by mydn · · Score: 1
      I don't know what piece of shit ereader you use, but I use a Kindle Paperwhite. I've also use a Kindle Fire, Xoom, IPad (full and mini). IPad Mini wasn't too bad, but the Paperwhite wins hands down. My responses are based on my experience with the Paperwhite; an actual ereader.

      1. .) The contrast is lousy, it's reading with a piece of slightly frosted glass between you and the text

      I have no contrast issues at all. I usually never even notice that there is a "screen" involved, I am just consuming the text.

      .) The reflected glare is awful. You can't read wearing a white shirt, for example.

      The Paperwhite does not have discernible glare except in some extreme lighting situations, which would be difficult lighting for paper books as well.

      .) Every time the system powers up it has to run through the database making a hash of each file it finds. This can take upwards of an hour, depending on the number and complexity of items, and during which the system cannot be used.

      I can't remember the last time that my device "powered up". Oh, wait, it was a couple of months ago when I got a software update. Just took a few minutes. When I press the button to use my Kindle, it's ready in 2 seconds or less.

      .) It always shows PDFs at "fill the screen" resolution, which means that the margins of the original page are always visible, which means that most of the display area is wasted. I can "zoom" individual pages, but to go to the next page I have to get out of zoom and then reapply the zoom to the next page.

      The PDF format is admittedly a pain in the ass in all cases, not just ereaders. The PDFs that I have generated to be as platform neutral as possible work very well on the Paperwhite. PDFs that were created so that the author could control what the page looks like have some issues, but those issues exist on multiple platforms.

      .) Using the "small-medium-large" setting scales the font, but not the formatting. Characters and words become larger, but the "breaks" at the original margins are still there, meaning that the lines break at odd places and waste much of the display area.

      I've never experienced what you are describing, except with some PDF files that are causing hard line breaks. I just tested on 5 different PDFs that were on my device and they all worked just fine. I have 8 different font sizes and 6 different fonts to choose from.

      .) Finding a specific place in a book is time consuming and inefficient. The first 30 physical pages of a book are usually things I want to skip (contents, publisher, title page, foreward, &c) and going forward to find the transition from meta to actual content is tedious. You can't just say "go to the start of text". In a real book you flib forward/back at high speed until the character of the pages change.

      It's simple to jump around in an ebook. Just bring up the "Go To" menu and you can skip to the beginning, the table of contents, a specific chapter, or a specific page. You can bring up bookmarks, also.

      .) Finding a referenced diagram, equation, or image is nigh impossible. Flipping forward (or back) 3 pages to see a chart of graph is easy in a physical book - you just put your finger in that place and you can go back-and-forth whenever you need.

      Very easy with the Paperwhite. Just place a bookmark and you can jump back easily. "Flipping" back and forth might admittedly be suboptimal, since there is some screen redraw, and I admit that excessive use of flipping is not an ideal use case.

      .) Reading scientific papers where the charts/diagrams are at the end of the document is highly inconvenient.

      I'm not sure I understand this point. It's easy to jump to the end to see the charts. I would greatly prefer for the charts and diagrams to be inline, though.

    13. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by amber_of_luxor · · Score: 1

      What you are forgetting is that most publishers neither know, nor care about correctly formatting an eBook, whether it be in PDF, ePub, Mobi, LIT, or other file format.

      --
      Wind Beneath Thy Wings
    14. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by omnichad · · Score: 1

      If that doesn't work, it's not the ereader's fault (it's the publisher).

      What part of this did you miss?

      Publishers will eventually get it. But people have to be aware that ereaders are capable of it in order to be able to complain to the publisher.

    15. Re:eReaders are functionally bad by praxis · · Score: 1

      The problem here is that you are judging an entire class of products by one exemplar, and a very poor specimen at that. I assume you would not propose that because one book was uninteresting to you that you should never read again?

  30. Conflicted interests? by dcooper_db9 · · Score: 1

    I'm more interested in what this says about the Washington Post than the book. Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post. TFA is a book review with a link to Amazon, where you can buy the book. I wonder if this is part of the owner's strategy to make the paper profitable. And why does the entire article ignore the difference between color displays and e-ink?

    --
    I do not block ads. I do block third party scripts.
  31. I use both by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I switch back and forth between a Kindle and physical books. I have a slight preference for the dead tree books. They feel nicer, it's easier to find my place by feel if I put the book aside for a while and they will still work if the battery dies. Plus most books in my collection will survive if I happen to drop one of them and they aren't hindered by DRM. Physical books have a nice smell too and are easy to share with other people. E-readers have their perks. They take up less space and they tend to be lighter than most books. For people who travel a lot I think e-books make a lot of sense. But physical books have a lot of benefits over e-books that I suspect will keep them around for a long time.

    1. Re:I use both by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's easier to find my place by feel if I put the book aside for a while

      How do you manage to lose your place in an ebook?

  32. E for reference, tree's my preference by DeathElk · · Score: 1

    I use electronic readers for work/hobby related reference material, however I'll always buy paperback novels when travelling. That's my preference when reading for pleasure.

    1. Re:E for reference, tree's my preference by arvindsg · · Score: 1

      For me its other way round, I can read linear content on ebooks easily, but for notes and reference material where i am going to be jumping around a lot i prefer physical book . Though a properly hyper-linked e-book does work too but that is not always available.

    2. Re:E for reference, tree's my preference by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I do the exact opposite. Don't you find illustrations and diagrams a pain when using an e-reader? I find it really hard to read charts, tables or what not in the e-book format. At least on my Kindle that is. And if I'm doing a project where there's dust, dirt, or solder around, I'd rather not have my laptop in the vicinity.

    3. Re:E for reference, tree's my preference by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      The other way around works better.

      eInk readers are perfect for linear reading, such as fiction / non-fiction / stories / etc. I do all of my leisure reading (i.e. fiction) on either my Sony reader or on my 10" tablet. But they are not so good for reference works where you need to flip pages a lot or deal with lots of diagrams.

      Reference works, such as books on technical topics, I usually resort to reading them on the 27" display on my desktop (although some are passable on a 10" tablet). The main reason I buy those in electronic from is for search and space savings on my bookshelf.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
  33. Long story short by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

    People with poor self control prefer limits on their behavior. I guess they have enough self control to recognize their own deficiencies, but not enough to fix them.

    1. Re:Long story short by werepants · · Score: 1

      Perhaps. Or you could say that perhaps these people are more aware of distraction and take specific measures when they don't want it to intrude. Or do you think that procrastination and distraction are unique to the 30 and under crowd?

    2. Re:Long story short by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      I find myself on both sides of the procrastination/distraction divide. Sometimes I am very determined to finish the task at hand, and other times I am dis tractable by nearly anything. It usually depends on how interesting vs. anxiety provoking the task is.

      My point is that I feel like middle ground of not having enough self control to use a computer without being distracted, but still having enough self control to force yourself to get a physical book, rather than an electronic version, seems quite narrow to the point of being rather silly.

      My mom diligently sets all her clocks to run 15 minutes early, so she won't be late. Why not just use all that diligence to simply be on time. It seems easier to do that with the added benefit of having your clocks be accurate.

      Why not just focus your will power on not being distracted by distractions rather than simply avoiding distractions. It seems to me, both easier, and you get the added benefit of being able to use a computer and the added productivity it provides.

    3. Re:Long story short by werepants · · Score: 1

      Here's the thing: avoiding distraction while using a medium full of distraction requires constant vigilance. On the other hand, you can make a good decision once, when you decide to pursue an activity, to cut out distraction and then you require no more willpower. This is useful for people who have more willpower at certain times than others, which is all of them as far as I can tell. Set things up well when you are motivated, so that you won't falter when you are tired/stressed or otherwise have your discipline compromised.

      I think it would be great to just maintain 100% willpower all the time and just succeed at things because I want it bad enough, but I've tried that many, many times and it doesn't work for me. Instead, creating an environment that subtly promotes the activities I truly value and makes the impulsive but unsatisfying time-wasters inconvenient seems to reliably help me do more of the things I care about long-term.

    4. Re:Long story short by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      Here's the thing: avoiding distraction while using a medium full of distraction requires constant vigilance. On the other hand, you can make a good decision once, when you decide to pursue an activity, to cut out distraction and then you require no more willpower. This is useful for people who have more willpower at certain times than others, which is all of them as far as I can tell. Set things up well when you are motivated, so that you won't falter when you are tired/stressed or otherwise have your discipline compromised.

      Do you get rid of all your phones and computers?

      I went through college (probably the time when I procrastinated the most), with physical books, and it did not prevent me from being distracted by my computer. Reading a physical book doesn't prevent you from being distracted by your computer so long as you still have immediate access to it.

      I think physical books present at most a very mild evasion of distraction. It might help people with enough willpower to abstain from using the computer they have access to but not enough will power to abstain from opening certain applications or clicking on certain links.

      Unless you are actually somehow preventing access to your computers (i.e. driving to a park, and leaving your laptops, tablets, and smartphones behind), I don't see this choice of reading a physical book as being "one good decision", but rather one followed by a constant stream of good decisions to continue reading that book rather than using these devices that are ubiquitous and immediately accessible to nearly everyone in the 1st world (and even many in the 3rd world).

    5. Re:Long story short by werepants · · Score: 1

      One piece of advice I heard with respect to productivity is this: Decrease the number of steps between you and good habits, increase the number of steps between you and bad habits. Take Facebook, for instance. It offers enough value to me to maintain it, but despite the subconscious urgency I feel to check it, it offers very little benefit if looked at more than once per day. Reading a book on a tablet means I am at most two button presses away. Reading a book the old-fashioned way means that I have to get up, navigate towards the nearest tablet/computer/phone, unlock it, and open the Facebook app. The inconvenience means I'm less likely to give in when a momentary impulse strikes.

      There's also plenty of research to support this, and on some level it is unquestionably true. What takes more willpower: avoiding the warm chocolate chip cookies sitting on a plate in front of you, or avoiding the warm chocolate chip cookies at the store 5 miles away?

      The point being, I enjoy pursuing activities with distraction minimized. Reclining with a paper book and a glass of bourbon is infinitely more relaxing than squinting at a screen and pushing buttons. My focus is maintained because the device I am holding performs a single primary function which I am singularly devoted to.

      As to this question:

      Do you get rid of all your phones and computers?

      No, because I find these things to be very useful and often enjoyable, but they can sometimes present distractions that prevent me from doing more useful, more enjoyable things. Technology is a wonderful servant but a terrible master. A variety of strategies are out there for making sure that you aren't mastered by it, and I don't think that one kind should be more highly regarded than another.

    6. Re:Long story short by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      Reading a book the old-fashioned way means that I have to get up, navigate towards the nearest tablet/computer/phone, unlock it, and open the Facebook app. The inconvenience means I'm less likely to give in when a momentary impulse strikes.

      I am not disputing that having a distraction be a little bit more inconvenient will make you a little less likely to be distracted by it. I think that is fairly obvious.

      What I am saying is that the effort spent to make these distractions inconvenient is not negligible. Couldn't this effort be better spent?

      If you find yourself in a foreign country where you don't speak the language (let's say it's Russia). One strategy you might employ is teaching everyone you want to interact with English so that you can communicate with them. A better strategy might be to simply learn Russian. It's easier in the long term and you have the added benefit of a new skill.

      Training yourself not to be distractable (as opposed to training yourself to avoid distractions), is in my opinion a better investment, because you get the added benefit of being able to use computers.

      I would recommend to a person with a cookie problem, to focus their energy on solving their cookie will power problem rather than enhancing their ability to keep cookies at least 5 miles away.

    7. Re:Long story short by werepants · · Score: 1

      Training yourself not to be distractable (as opposed to training yourself to avoid distractions), is in my opinion a better investment, because you get the added benefit of being able to use computers.

      How do you do such a thing? I'm not aware of any reliable way to develop such a skill - it sounds to me like saying "learn to have unlimited willpower".

    8. Re:Long story short by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      How do you learn to "avoid distractions"? What are the reliable ways to develop this skill?

    9. Re:Long story short by werepants · · Score: 1

      I tried closing my browser down entirely when I need to get work done, for instance. Leaving it minimized proved too distracting, as the temptation to click over to email or slashdot is too strong. Having it closed all the way down makes it marginally more inconvenient, enough so that I don't indulge my distraction nearly as often.

      I can give you lots of specific examples of my approach to beating distraction. You haven't given me a single one yet for your version. It still sounds to me like nothing more than "try harder".

    10. Re:Long story short by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      You are describing yourself doing these things (i.e. closing your browser, and not opening it again), not how you mustered the willpower to do them.

      I can give you lots of specific examples of my approach to beating distraction. You haven't given me a single one yet for your version. It still sounds to me like nothing more than "try harder".

      My system is indeed nothing more than "try harder". What I am trying to show, is that your system is ultimately the same thing but just more convoluted, and less useful.

      When I was in college I flunked out twice, because I was distracted by video games. I tried hard not to be distracted by video games, and now I am no longer distracted by them.

      This story of the form where I describe the process of "magically have the will power to do X", while it may seem ridiculous, is ultimately no different than your process of "magically have the willpower to do Y which then gives you X without the need for willpower". You correctly point out that "have the willpower to do X" is a very dubious suggestion. What I am saying is that your suggestion of "All you need to do to get X is Y" just a misdirection, because the real question is "How do you magically get Y?"

      So as an example, what would you tell someone who says "I tried closing my browser to avoid distraction, but I can rarely muster the willpower to do that, and when I do I can't stop myself from reopening it." You are essentially telling them "try harder, and just have the willpower to close your browser and leave it closed".

      Obviously if you can force yourself to close your browser and leave it closed, you won't be distracted by facebook.

      My claim is that it takes basically the same amount of willpower not to open a browser as it does not to click on a bookmark or link and saying "have the willpower to close your browser so you won't go to facebook" is no better and less useful than saying "have the willpower not to go to facebook", because if you can do the latter, it means you can still use your browser for productive things.

    11. Re:Long story short by werepants · · Score: 1

      My claim is that it takes basically the same amount of willpower not to open a browser as it does not to click on a bookmark or link and saying "have the willpower to close your browser so you won't go to facebook" is no better and less useful than saying "have the willpower not to go to facebook", because if you can do the latter, it means you can still use your browser for productive things.

      Thanks for being clear about what you are saying. I think that your claim is fundamentally neglects all the things we know about human behavior. Willpower is a finite resource (lots of research supports this) and we know that different kinds of tasks use more or less of it.

      Sometimes I have surplus willpower, and these indirect strategies and tricks to keep myself focused are unnecessary. Those times are usually when I'm well rested, have an interesting project in front of me, and meaningful deadlines that give me a sense of urgency. If I've got boring work, distant or nonexistent deadlines, or I'm exhausted because of outside commitments or because my kids kept me up much of the night, then I need to conserve willpower and find ways to get myself to work on things when my "short term gratification" impulse is harder to ignore.

      Sure, it is more parsimonious to just use the willpower directly, but that is sort of like questioning the point of a bicycle when walking is simpler and can, in principle, get the job done. Additional complexity can be more effective and efficient, and I'd argue that's the case here as well. Using our understanding of the human mind and how it operates seems to be a better approach than expecting everyone to brute force their way to perfect discipline.

    12. Re:Long story short by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      I think the bicycle vs. walking analogy is good at illustrating the concept of the potential for additional complexity to increase efficiency, but I don't think it applies well to this situation, given the fact that the most efficient solution is walking (i.e. not being distracted, rather than avoiding distractions).

      I think a better analogy would be comparing a wheelchair to walking. Walking is better if you are capable of doing it, but a wheelchair is better than nothing. And in this context, what I am proposing is physical therapy to get you walking again rather than training to get really good at using your wheelchair, or upgrading to a rascal, etc.

      Using a wheelchair is rather inconvenient, even if you get pretty good at it. If you can muster the will power to deal with that level of inconvenience, I am suggesting maybe you have the willpower necessary to learn to walk (however you are able to magically produce willpower), and if you can manage that, you will be better off given the added utility of walking.

    13. Re:Long story short by werepants · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that you're critical of people that use strategies other than "try harder" to accomplish their goals. You are essentially opposed to the use of tools here.

      You've admitted that you aren't a stranger to procrastination - is it the case that you never procrastinate or get distracted now, because you just found more willpower? That sounds unlikely to me.

      At any rate, if you accept that willpower is a finite resource (I haven't seen you dispute this), the real issue is simple. You think strategies to conserve willpower use more of it than they give back, I think that the effort they consume is outweighed by the effort they save throughout a working day. It depends on the strategy, of course - I tried the pomodoro approach for a while and found that the complexity and overhead of using it was too much of a burden to maintain. However, there are some other things that I have found which "pay for themselves" consistently.

      Lacking a useful way to quantify willpower, it would be hard to test this objectively, but it really isn't difficult to test it subjectively in life. Try a day (or week,or month) using a strategy, and see how it works. If you are happier and/or feel more productive in one scenario, go with it. In my experience, I get a lot more done when I focus on a few simple techniques that limit distraction, so it suggests that these efforts to conserve willpower are worth it. You might experience the opposite, but if you haven't really tried it, your arguments are baseless conjecture.

    14. Re:Long story short by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that you're critical of people that use strategies other than "try harder" to accomplish their goals. You are essentially opposed to the use of tools here.

      I am not critical of any people. I am critical of strategies. I am not critical of non-"try harder" strategies. I am saying that all strategies are ultimately "try harder" strategies at their core, so I don't think this is a good way to differentiate them. I am not opposed to the use of tools. I am simply suggesting that one tool may be more useful than another.

      You've admitted that you aren't a stranger to procrastination - is it the case that you never procrastinate or get distracted now, because you just found more willpower? That sounds unlikely to me.

      I'm not sure that I ever implied that I never procrastinate or get distracted.

      At any rate, if you accept that willpower is a finite resource (I haven't seen you dispute this), the real issue is simple.

      At any given moment, willpower may be a finite resource, but I don't think that one's willpower is unchangeable.

      At any given moment, one's energy to accomplish tasks is finite, but that doesn;t mean there is nothing that can be done to increase one's energy.

      For example, your finite energy may limit the number of pull-ups you can do at any given time. If we assume that your energy is unchangeable, a good strategy to maximize the number of pullups you can do is to never do any, because it would permanently decrease the total amount you could do. But in reality, doing pullups temporarily decreases the number you can do (e.g. Once I do 10, then I can only do 0 for a while). But if you actually train yourself, the number of pullups you can do actually increases.

      I get a lot more done when I focus on a few simple techniques that limit distraction, so it suggests that these efforts to conserve willpower are worth it. You might experience the opposite, but if you haven't really tried it, your arguments are baseless conjecture.

      Where do I get the willpower to try it? I am making an a priori argument, so it's fine without evidence.

  34. How about "easy to read"... by murdocj · · Score: 1

    What's with the "dead tree" crap? How about the "easy to flip thru" or "fun to use" version? After all, you don't refer to the popcorn you are eating while reading Slashdot as the "dead seed" snack.

  35. I was going to post a long comment by Rinikusu · · Score: 1

    but my LFR queue just popped.

    --
    If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
  36. I use either, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At home, I read on my laptop using the Kindle for PC software, or Adobe Reader. But, if I were to be travelling on the NYC subway, or eating out, I prefer taking a printed book.

    I don't expect to be robbed for a book, but a tablet of any kind and even an iPhone is in danger of being stolen.

    I also prefer real paper magazines to electronic versions. I've stopped reading every magazine that decided they were only going to publish electronic editions. If they want my subscription dollars and eyes back, they only need to resume a print edition.

    Perhaps none of my preferences are logical, but they don't have to be. I tried using my tablet for reading everywhere, and it was inconvenient, would run out of power at it the worst times, and caused people to interrupt my reading to ask questions about the tablet too.

  37. Sick and tired of "Digital Natives" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Holy hell am I ever sick and tired of the term "digital native".

    I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s. My first computer was a TI-99 4/A with 16 K of RAM. Then a Commodore 128, Amiga, etc. I've been a "digital native" as long as I can remember.

    I went back to university a few years ago (when I was in my 30s), and those digital native kids that I was taking classes with? Well they couldn't compute their way out of a paper bag. Sure they might know how to use Facebook - but native? Hardly. They still didn't understand the difference between a hard drive and RAM ... and they still made all the same bone-headed mistakes using a computer as their clueless peers in the 1990s made (hey! I just got a weird email with an attachment! Let me open it and see what it is!)

    After graduating, I ended up working for the university, helping profs integrate and use technology in their courses - and every prof was under the mistaken assumption that these kids were somehow technologically gifted, just by virtue of having been born in the late 80s/early 90s.

    Ridiculous. Kids today aren't digital natives.

    1. Re:Sick and tired of "Digital Natives" by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      This. I'd say the problem is made worse by the closed appliance culture that artificially distances users from developers, even if we have the open source movement to keep things alive. To consider things literally, a "digital native" should be someone who speaks ones and zeros fluently, i.e. having some level of programming ability, and not just in a school/test environment, but applying it in the real world.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:Sick and tired of "Digital Natives" by Imazalil · · Score: 1

      Everyone knows digital only started with the iPhone and Facebook.

      (This isn't some dig at Apple and marketing, just people's dumbness/shortsightedness in general)

    3. Re:Sick and tired of "Digital Natives" by werepants · · Score: 1

      I agree - I fit in the generation that most people would consider "digital natives", but many or most of my peers are pretty clueless about technology (just like most people in all generations). Proficiency with technology doesn't come from using foolproof user interfaces, particularly with entertainment devices. It comes from using technology to do productive work efficiently, and understanding the tools available to you to that end. Very few people are very advanced in this, when you consider how ubiquitous digital tech really is.

  38. "Digital natives" ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Motherfucker, PLEASE.

    We'd all be better off if you idiots sucked a pustule-covered cock instead of sitting
    around thinking up cute phrases.

  39. Re:Boomer here by jsrjsr · · Score: 3, Informative

    Either boomers and millennials are completely different, the millennials need to try a REAL e-reader or I'm unusual. I like reading on my e-ink Kindle with no back-light better than reading a printed book.

  40. SAY IT'S NOT SO!!! by jsrjsr · · Score: 1

    Bacon is BAD for you? NOOOO!!!! I REFUSE to believe it!!!

  41. Ebook formats may be to blame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have read ebooks for at least 10 years now. But it has always frustrated me as to how poor the combination of rigid layout and poor application design makes ebooks vastly inferior. HTML was invented such a long time ago and has been such a huge success in presenting text with images across multiple platforms. Navigable links (with 'back'), re-flow to fit the frame, easily variable scale are just some of the key advantages. However instead of publishing into this format, or emulating it, publishers have chosen various inferior models. The human brain can manage printed books very well just as the summary points out. However if good formats and readers are provided then ebooks present enough advantages to grow even more popular.

    Finally, the elephant in the room is the very poor value model that most DRM encumbered ebook formats represent. Anyone who has wrestled with ADE to access their purchased book can easily see the advantage of owning a paper book.

  42. digital can still be SLOWER by jinchoung · · Score: 1

    it seems like for most people, digital reading is fine when it's just "straight ahead" fiction reading. you're approaching the material linearly and with the exception of a couple of flip backs every now and again, you're just going from start to finish one page at a time. i read almost all my novels like this.

    it's really different if you're reading a textbook or manual where you might have to access information in a wide variety of places at any moment. in such cases, books tend to be better and faster because you can go immediately to any page that you've dog eared or even by pure muscle memory remember about where it is relative to the thickness of the book. and page flips are instant. try flipping 25 pages with a book looking for information and then doing the same on a kindle. screen refresh on e-paper is still VASTLY inferior to a moist thumb. even in this day, there's all kinds of inexplicable delays in just going to page 124 on digital vs on paper. paper really is superior for instantly going to any page and the interface for doing that is faaaaaaaar better with paper.

    there are ways to get close to this speed on a pc or a laptop but only by really changing up the paradigm of how one searches a book for information - i.e. not flipping pages looking but explicitly using the search function. and in any case where you would be looking through the glossary, digital would be better and faster.

    not to mention that taking notes on the book pages itself is better and faster in analog. lots of apps where you CAN do this... but none of them are as fast as hiliter and pen in hand.

    for learning things like programming, or a graphics program or even the dungeon master's guide, if i could choose only one medium, i prefer paper books with pens and sticky notes and hiliters. ideally though, i'd have both.

  43. The case: Simple Economics by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

    E-books should cost 20% of what the current charges are.

    Was going to buy an electronic copy of a book I own (after seeing it mentioned on /.) for easier access, but $50 for a hardcover is absurd when there is a copy somewhere in one of my boxes somewhere, and no electronic versions were available.

    My wife has no objections to re-buying some titles, but it is absurd.

  44. Re:Boomer here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Same here. My Sony e-reader is great at the beach and it's obvious the survey is conflating people who use e-readers with people who try to read books on an iPad. Not the same thing at all. The e-reader is clearly inferior to a book for non-fiction containing maps and photos, but for works of fiction it's just as immersive if not more so than a paper book.

  45. Another title mismatch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The summary makes no mention of e-readers and makes points that are not relevant to e-readers.

    An e-readers is not simply a device that displays a book or magazine.

  46. If I accidently tread on a book by John+Allsup · · Score: 1

    Then it will generally still work, will probably be cheap to replace, and in case it is damaged, it will still be at least nearly perfectly usable.  In the case of my android tablet that I used to use for this, I made the mistake of leaving in on the floor next to the power socket whilst on charge (short power cable and all that), was enthusiastically showing a friend round my toy collection (toy=laptop/workstation/synth/etc) and accidently put my chairleg down on my android tablet.  It still boots but touchscreen functionality doesn't work and, being a cheap tablet, usb otg didn't work properly anyway, so its now unusable.  If it were a real book, it wouldn't even have broken!  That's why I do not trust e-readers for books that are even remotely important: they are just too fragile and, even though I'm careful 99% of the time, there is that issue of the remaining 1% where even the most careful human doesn't have his (or her) brain engaged properly and is temporarily a complete klutz. Real paperware books are reasonably robust against issues of accidental clumsiness.  And robustness saves lives!  Seriously, suppose you're on the ISS and the only copy of the maintenance manual is accessible via an e-reader and you break it?

    --
    John_Chalisque
    1. Re:If I accidently tread on a book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fucking ridiculous. Yes, we're all about to be posted to a space station where they've just scrapped all laminated manuals for battery based devices with tiny screens. Yup, that's really going to happen, twat.

      And what's with that courier font, you plank. Think you're cool?

      Har fucking har, don't leave stuff on the floor, carelessness costs lives.

    2. Re:If I accidently tread on a book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I only buy ebooks either DRM free or in a format I know I can break easily, then they all go into Calibre. One daughter has had her Kindle stolen at school, the other had one my wife stood on, but there was never any chance of losing access to the books.
      I read ~70% on an e-ink reader, my wife ~50% on her iPad. I'm still happy to buy real books, but usually now only when they're cheaper (which with used books is actually quite often).

    3. Re:If I accidently tread on a book by omnichad · · Score: 1

      An android tablet is not a true ereader. Try an e-ink reader. You won't be charging it more than a couple times a month even if you use it every day.

      Storing it on the floor is your own fault. Don't blame the manufacturer for their power cord - you have the power to put the charger wherever you want. Your phone probably uses the same charging connector and I don't see you advocating corded wall phones.

      If the book itself is important, breaking a reader doesn't matter in the short term. You can immediately resume reading on a desktop computer or phone. And your location is automatically synced. Try that with a paper book.

    4. Re:If I accidently tread on a book by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      I've had dogs eat and/or poop on books. I've lost books in my "junk" room, otherwise known as the "Room of No Return". I've also had e-readers damaged, lost, or just went pfft for no reason, but I never lost any books that way. Worst case, I'd buy a new reader and DL the books from Amazon. I'd say the odds of losing an ebook from Amazon is less than the odds of my house burning down with its thousands of paper books.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  47. That word... by Fishchip · · Score: 1

    etc etc etc. People always forget the e-ink devices. probably because they're so boring and uncool and you can't Facebook or whatever the fuck on it. I really, really miss my PRS-300 and -600. I don't miss my tablets.

    I wonder if this study would turn out any different if they excluded all tablets disguised as readers. E-ink only.

  48. What is an e-reader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I understand that something like an iPad can be considered an e-reader, but I don't believe that it is. I believe a lot of people's problems stem from the fact that they use the term "e-reader" on devices that aren't exactly e-readers. Reading on an iPad is way different than reading on a Kobo or a Kindle with an e-Ink screen. They aren't these miraculous Internet devices that let you play games and surf all the distracting web sites. They don't have the glowing screen of an iPad and they aren't prone to losing battery power within a few hours. The text looks almost exactly like a real book, except it can often be reflowed so that it is larger and easier to read.

  49. Ereaders are still way behind books by arvindsg · · Score: 1

    I Personally feel the user interface in ebook readers vs a physical book is completely lacking in features. Consider the following areas in which books certainly excel
    1.)Browsing Around: A real book allows you to move forward or backward way more easily then small next/forward,scroll bar does on a ereader. Further when moving between pages, the discontinuous screen refresh in any ereader contributes to you loosing focus.
    2.)Viewing Multiple Pages: On a real book you use your hand as a temporary bookmark to quickly jump between two pages, On a ereader this might involve navigating menus, waiting for screen refresh and other annoyances.
    3.)Taking Notes: Handwriting beats typing any day for small notes which may contain figures, underlines Symbols. Even with a $1 pen beats any stylus out there.

    Of course there are numerous areas where e-readers excel like augmented content, search tools, information to weight ratio etc. I am sure all these will change in time some with ui innovations and other with improved technology.

    I am personally surprised no body used a physical knob(iWatch like but larger) for navigating between pages on a ereader.

  50. distraction by aepervius · · Score: 1

    "Having the ability to touch any word on the screen and have definitions, translations, and wikipedia entries pop up as you read (which is great for many of the older books) is a fantastic benefit "

    And thus bring up thousand more distraction to break your reading. In my experience (having tested both) it is far far better for comprehension and reading "wellness" to simply note on a side paper what you want to search later and leave it there until you are finished reading. Unless there is a word which stops you understanding completely (which should be quite rare for the average book) this works well.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  51. Indicization, preview... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is obvious and it pains me that supposed experts can't see it. If you are studying a vast, technical subject you will end up reviewing something in the past chapters in order to understand what you're reading now; you can even keep the fingers between many pages at once: you can't do that on a e-book. You can also skim through the pages (like thumbnails, but faster and with regular-sized pages! Whoa!), go back and forvard of many pages at once, using the precious visual memory that humans have and not trying to remember the number of the page, because remembering numbers is natural for machines and not for humans.

    tl;dr: the paper book is a vastly superior interface. Bulkier for sure, but that's about the only drawback.

  52. best post on this entire thread, NO EXCEPTION by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been waiting 15 years for an e-reader that has A4 page size, and doesn't cost $400 or more. I don't read bodice rippers or stupid dime store scifi novels. I do read lots of journal articles and academic papers (all PDFs, I'm not going to redesign my life around a stupid device, get over it). Seems the industry is HIGHLY resistant to this simple notion for some reason (probably concerned with inability to create vendor lock in, and force shitty content down peoples throats).

  53. Why paper remains supreme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Two words... Used Books. The first sale doctrine remains supreme with paper. I can buy/sell/trade used paper books anytime I want without DRM restrictions. I can typically get a used and many times a new book for cheaper than ebook price on Amazon. The only exception is some out of print books. I have the negative price savings of ebooks, then I have to shell out another 100 dollars for a fragile kindle that suffers from planned obsolescence, that I will have to pay additional money for if I don't want it to spew ads at me. I have to pay more money for an ebook reader for the privilege of paying more money for ebooks. It makes no economic sense.

    1. Re:Why paper remains supreme by Aaden42 · · Score: 1

      Luddite much? I know people with original e-ink Kindles that are still reading just fine with them. They’ve been dropped dozens of times, and still keep going. They’re not terribly fragile nor is planned obsolescence an issue for them. Certainly newer versions of the hardware have more capabilities (like video playback), but you’re hardly required to upgrade if all you want to do is keep reading text.

      There aren’t any ads in Kindle or iBooks books. Dunno where you got that idea.

      DRM is only an obstacle if you let it be one. I agree the effort shouldn’t be necessary, but it’s really not very much effort at all.

      I personally never buy a book I don’t intend to keep forever, so resale for me to others isn’t something I consider to be an issue (though I understand others do). Being able to buy used books can be a cost savings, but I really haven’t observed that wide a difference between used book prices and Kindle prices for most stuff I’m interested in. Add in the convenience / time saved factor of being able to go online and click a few buttons rather than have to search around online or brick/mortar book stores to find what I’m looking for, then wait for it to arrive via USless Post Oriface. . . The “savings” for used are pretty much nil assuming you “pay” yourself a realistic wage for your time.

  54. Seriously, that is NOT learning. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If something is just dumped on you by authority, you really have a hard time learning from it. It's why you get given homework to do ON YOUR OWN when at school: you try to get the right answer and even if you fail, you have learned what you didn't understand about what was taught when your reasoned attempt to re-create it at home fails and your error is shown up.

    It's the same with ANY skill or knowledge to learn: if you're shown, you likely forget it within 5 minutes (Short term memory, but not downloaded to long term memory). If you try and try and then fail after 20 minutes of trying, THEN someone comes along and shows you, you can connect that learning with the efforts you took 20 minutes ago (now having to be in long term memory), and actually REMEMBER that stuff.

    And all the knowledge shown you is NOT LEARNING if you don't bloody REMEMBER it.

  55. e-reader, short for "electronic reading device" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, yes, a bookreader app on a desktop computer, tablet,phablet, phone or e-ink device IS an e-reader. Though in the case of the majority of those categories, the e-reader would be more appliccable to the name of the app rather than the device.

    But "e-reader" is NOT "e-ink e-reader", which is why they need the qualifier term "e-ink".

    I hope this gets seen by all those scores of "users" who seem to think that e-readers are not the LCD screen tablets with e-reader software. I doubt they will and doubt they'll accept if they do, preferring to claim "It isn't because I've defined it as not!".

  56. What about e-ink readers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everybody assumes that you're going to be reading books on normal tablets with full color backlit displays. The problem with them is that they SUCK when reading for extended periods.

    E-Ink readers, on the other hand, are fantastic for reading for hours on end. They're nowhere near as hard on your eyes, you can take them outside in the sun and they're every bit as readable as they were indoors. They last for weeks on a single charge and you can carry hundreds or thousands of books with you on a device that weighs less than most hardback books.

    Do I prefer reading a real book over reading on an iPad or a typical LCD Android tablet? Of course. Is it better than reading on an e-ink reader? For plain text, no it isn't. If you're reading a book that needs color illustrations and pictures to illustrate a point (meaning, many, many textbooks), real paper is better, yeah, but if you're just reading plain text, e-ink readers are the way to go.

  57. A few pluses and minuses by moeinvt · · Score: 1

    For anything that has pictures, charts, graphs or formulas, I definitely want the dead tree version. I can't imagine using a Kindle for my college textbooks or any technical manuals The zoom features aren't great and you're sometimes reading text on one page pertinent to a graphic on another page. I already regret having bought 'Capital in the 21st Century" as an e-book precisely for that reason.

    For pure text, like a novel, the Kindle is awesome. Portable, comfortable to hold, long battery life. If you've ever read a really fat paperback (Mark Bowden's "Blackhawk Down" comes to mind), just holding the damned thing open is a pain. I love the fact that you can read the Kindle, say at breakfast, without having to use hands to hold the book open. Same with a stationary exercise machine. It's also nice that you can zoom on the text in case the motion of your head is making the print hard to read.
    I think the best and most invaluable feature of having an e-reader is Project Gutenberg (gutenberg.org). Want to read or reference Nietzsche, Dante, Shakespeare, or go back and read Moby Dick, The Count of Monte Cristo or many other old classics? All free (and legal) via the web site.

    Of course there's always the zombie apocalypse scenario where electricity would be hard to come by, but until then, the e-reader provides a lot of utility .

    1. Re:A few pluses and minuses by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      "Of course there's always the zombie apocalypse scenario where electricity would be hard to come by, but until then, the e-reader provides a lot of utility ."

      Even in a zombie apocalypse charging usb devices shouldn't be that difficult. There are solar powered chargers cheaply and readily available all over the place which should get you through the first few years. After that infrastructure like electricity, computers and printers should become more available as people establish fortified settlements.

  58. Reading papers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Also, the double column IEEE layout is an absolute bitch to read on a kindle...

  59. Ok, I will be the first to say it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But I like e-readers because I read a lot, am poor, and so can more easily steal books.

    Other than earning and paying more than, say, $10k, how can I have at the ready scores of up to date textbooks in a plethora of fields?
    Oh, that fit in my bag.

  60. Not this digital native by Aaden42 · · Score: 1

    As someone who modified his TI-85 calculator to be able to store and display text for reading in high school in 1997, I think I qualify as a “digital native.” I’ve no use for dead tree books. I have a stack of paper books sitting on my desk I’ll most likely never read.

    I always have my phone in my pocket, usually have my iPad on my shoulder, and can pull them out and read a few paragraphs whenever I get a few minutes. Not so with a paper book, so the only time I’d read them would be at home, and generally I’ve got other things to do then. The ability to hold libraries worth of text in my pocket far out weighs (well, no, maybe under-weighs?) any value that might be had from a physical object. I’m accustomed to the interface of an e-reader, and while it takes some adaptation and learning to be able to find things quickly (no dog eared pages on my phone), I still manage pretty well. The availability wins.

    As far as the screen keeping me awake? Given the number of times I’ve smashed myself in the nose with my iPad as I nod off reading in bed, I don’t think it works like that. At least not for me.

  61. I bought a Kindle by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 1

    And I vowed to never again buy a paper book that is available in electronic format in my life. There are no distractions in the kindle and I can have all the books I want at any time and, you know, not cut down a tree in the process. But really I believe it is a better experience, books are heavy and I get enough wrist strain from using my computer, I can leave markers and it is easier to use the index for text-books. Sure the amazon DRM is not very cool but the convenience makes up for it.

    In my opinion they should be giving kids kindles and not ipads in schools. When I was a child I was hungry to find good books but I could never find or afford to buy them.

  62. nc by Falos · · Score: 1

    > When a digital device has to sit and spin after every single click or action, it's hard to resist the temptation to jump ship.
    Fixed.

    A book has better real estate than a phone. A book has absolutely, non-figuratively, zero UI lag. A book is lightweight, portable, you can drop it on concrete from 10ft and you don't need to stress over keeping track of a valuable. It's paper, it's worthless.

    It's hard to resist the temptation to jump shit when GUI devs dick around with faders and sliders and icon bullshit, and endless bloat. And then it's menus within menus of navigation - we pound the life out of hotkeys and shortcuts to get around it.

  63. It is not against tablets, not e-readers by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

    E-readers are very specialized devices. They are usually e-ink based and the only thing they do is display pages from a book. No web browsing, no apps.
    When you start adding things like connectivity (except maybe syncing of books and annotations), web searching, or anything that isn't about reading books, you have a computer, not an e-reader.

  64. Note taking text vs casual reading by Nukenbar · · Score: 1

    I think there is a big difference between text that you would want to take notes along side of the text and those books that are a more casual read.

    For note taking, e-readers have still not perfected the ease of having a pen and being about to write directly on on in the margins of text. Print books still excel there.

    But for casual reading, a device like a kindle paper-white is better in almost all regards. Reading at night off of its adjustable lit screen is perfect for not keeping you awake if you are trying to get to sleep. 90% of people that I have suggested one to have enjoyed it.

  65. Re:Boomer here by werepants · · Score: 1

    I read quite a bit, and while I've got some interest in picking up an real e-reader some time, the fact that the pages aren't really typeset (the layout changes based on font size) and there's no physical/spatial reference for the place in the book is a big turnoff for me. I've also found that having access to too many things at once (as in, basically everything that was published before ~1930) can ultimately damp my enthusiasm for reading. Having 5 or 6 real books that I've checked out from the library or used book store is enough for me.

    I do fit into the Millenial generation, and honestly it seems to me that when I compare myself to my parents or grandparents, I'm more aware of and sensitive to the negative impacts of technology. I find that it is much easier for me to focus on writing with a pen and paper, for instance. I was talking with my grandpa recently, and he was talking about how he hardly had any time in the day because it takes him so long to keep up with email throughout the day. When I told him I opened up my schedule by ditching TV, he seemed like he had never even considered such a thing. As another example, my stepdad's mom is one of the worst people I know with phone etiquette - she's on her iPhone continually playing free-to-play games, even in the midst of family gatherings. Many people I know in the millenial generation will go out of their way to remove apps on their phones that are too time consuming.

    The point being, I think millenials are more attuned to the negative aspects of technology, or rather, place more emphasis on the benefits (often intangible) of older technologies and will pick from the era that suits them. Or perhaps they just reject the notion of unidirectional progress, such that newer is always better. Consider the resurgence of vinyl albums, or the surging interest in "retro" gaming, or the entire steampunk movement - all of these things are driven by millenials, and are at least somewhat anachronistic. It's an interesting trend, and I think this apparent e-reader aversion is just one more example.

  66. Re:Boomer here by Causemos · · Score: 1

    Agreed. I don't know why these surveys can't differentiate between a true e-reader with an e-ink screen and other LCD/LED type devices. They are completely different experiences. E-ink devices typically don't do much else so there is no interruption from the device itself.

  67. Data point of one... by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

    A couple of years ago when I flew through the US everyone had an e-reader. The last time I flew, which was late last year, everyone had paper books. I notice that the bookstores in US airports still seem to be going strong - Amazon is still selling books hand over fist.

    Sure, e-readers are great for storing millions of books (that you can't lend to your friends... dang it), but they just suck.

  68. I prefer E-readers because..../ by LinuxLuver · · Score: 1

    I'm closer to 60 then 50. Most people my age would prefer paper books. No argument. I'm just not one of them. I prefer having 200+ books in my back pocket. My e-reader, ideally, let's me annotate what I'm reading.... So I have searchable relevant markers. I can look up words that need looking up. When reading on my phone on a plane I hold it with 3-4 fingers - lightly - whereas the person next to me with a big fat paper novel soon grows tired of wrangling the big, fat thing. Distraction? Don't be! Grow some self discipline.

    --
    Only boring people are ever bored.
  69. The case against e-readers? DRM. by jbn-o · · Score: 1

    I'm uninterested in DRM'd e-readers or any e-reader that reveals my location, refuses to let me copy, quote, print, and do other things I do with books. I'm unwilling to sacrifice my rights because some publisher wants a rent scheme on books or wants me to constantly feed them information on my whereabouts, what I'm reading, logging my name with what I read (which even my local library only does as long as the loan), and other privacy violations that simply aren't possible with books. Calling DRM "digital restrictions management" is right and proper because that frames the debate where it belongs—around user's rights.

    1. Re:The case against e-readers? DRM. by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

      refuses to let me copy, quote, print,

      What ereader prevents you from doing these things? Kindles have the ability to do this easily, and even has built-in things to share them online. You have to opt-in to it revealing your location. And not all the books have DRM (which is on the books, not the readers) - in fact, the DRM on ebooks is decided by the publishers, not the ereader companies.

  70. Re:Boomer here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amen. I don't like extended reading on an illuminated screen. Not on a computer, not on a phone, not on a tablet. They all make me feel the same way, like I need to get away from the screen. The e-ink display is not like that. I can read for hours without that feeling vs. maybe 20 minutes on an illuminated screen.

    On thing that is awkward is trying to flip back a bit to re-read something. When reading a physical book, I inately have an idea of how big a chunk of pages I need to peel back. With the e-reader, I needed to learn to look at the percentage indicator to get an idea. But that is a small compromise for having 20 or 30 (easily) books in my pocket (big pockets, old guy, loose pants, don't try this in skinny jeans).

  71. 20 or 30 books? That's ALL?! by jsrjsr · · Score: 1

    I'm currently carting around 200 books in my Kindle.

  72. Re:Boomer here by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

    And let's not forget that the resolution of a "Retina" display is still a joke compared to that of a printed page

  73. Reasons I prefer e-readers by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

    1. Room in my house. I have a small house; the number of books that can fit inside is limited. We're a 6 person, homeschooling family, and my husband collects comic books. My books get the least space priority.
    2. The ability to immediately start a new book when I finish a book, without having to carry around multiple books. I can also immediately check out a new book from the library without waiting for my husband to get home with the car, and then fighting the snow and sub-zero temperatures.
    3. No-handed reading. With a dead-tree book, I have to hold it open. With an ereader, I can do something else with my hands, pausing only to press the "next page" button when necessary. I often use this to knit or crochet while reading.
    4. The ability to switch between ebooks and audio books, or reading and using text-to-speech. I can continue the book while I have to cook, drive somewhere, etc.
    5. Weight. My Kindle is much lighter than most dead tree books I read, making it much more comfortable to hold. I can read longer because my hands/wrists don't get tired.
    6. Okay, I'll admit it... piracy. I buy a lot of ebooks, get ebooks from my local library and am subscribed to Kindle Unlimited, but I pirate books too. (Most often books I can't get electronic versions of legally.) Printing out a whole novel when you're paying for your own ink is not cost effective, though admittedly I did it a few times in the 90s using the free printing at the school library.