Man 3D Prints a Working 5-Speed Transmission For Toyota Engines

ErnieKey writes A man named Eric Harrell has reverse engineered a 5-speed transmission for a Toyota 22RE Engine, and 3D printed an entire working replica on his desktop 3D printer. Even though it is made up almost entirely of plastic, he says that it could function as a replacement for the real thing. In all it took about 48 hours of print time, plus many more in order to assemble the device. He has made the files available for anyone to download and print themselves for free.

Comments

It's a model

[DogDude]

It's not a "working transmission" nor could it ever be. It's a model. Neat model, but just a model, nonetheless.

Re:It's a model

[BarbaraHudson]

Exactly. I'm getting almost as tired of these bugus 3d printing articles as I am of the kickstarter ones.

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

yeh, it "could function as a replacement for the real thing" for 10milliseconds

Re:It's a model

[danbert8]

It would be a working transmission for a radio controlled car maybe... But aside from using the 3d prints to make molds for castings, I don't see what good this does anyone.

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to learn how a transmission works, and you don't want to disassemble one from the local junkyard, I could see this being a great option.

Re:It's a model

[pspahn]

You're familiar with the 22RE?

You're aware that those motors would run for 200,000 miles driven by an irresponsible teenager that never changed the oil, right?

That certainly aren't the most power motors ever made, but they are remarkably reliable. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see components replaced with plastic and still perform to spec. Sure, not for another 200,000 miles, but certainly longer than 10 milliseconds.

Re:It's a model

[rot26]

I'm not sure that "plastic" means what you think it means.

Re:It's a model

[msauve]

In exactly what way is an assembly of parts including the speed-changing gears and the propeller shaft by which the power is transmitted from an engine to a live axle not a transmission?

Re:It's a model

[argStyopa]

Agreed.

Not to mention (from TFA): "...While the majority of the transmission is 3D printed, there are some smaller parts which can not be printed on a desktop 3D printer, such as the 3mm rod, (18) 623zz bearings, (20) 3mm washers, and a few other small odds and ends like screws and bolts. ..."

"Even though it is made up almost entirely of plastic, he says that it could function as a replacement for the real thing." How the hell does the summarizer make such an assertion?
As far as I can tell from TFA he *never* asserts it could be a replacement for the real thing - he says "it's completely functional" which is a fuckton away from "can be a replacement for the real thing".

It is pretty cool though. Transmissions are one of those things on my "figure out how it works" list that I've never quite gotten to...

Re:It's a model

[ShanghaiBill]

But aside from using the 3d prints to make molds for castings, I don't see what good this does anyone.

There are 3D printers that use laser sintering to print directly in metal. Materials include stainless steel, aluminum, and titanium. Metal printing is immature technology, and thus expensive, but that will change. For some specialty steels, and for titanium, CNC machining is difficult, and wastes material, so 3D printing will likely eventually become the dominant manufacturing technique for these materials.

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

Great! So now we have someone making plastic transmissions, just like they started making metal guns.

If law enforcement cannot detect these with standard metal detectors, how will we ever stop the scourge of street racing?

These perps will be free to print these illicit gear boxes in the privacy of their own homes, undetected, and terrorize the good folk without repurcussion.

Re:It's a model

[hodet]

Not picking on you specifically, just answering a chorus of boos from the peanut gallery. People have lost their love of how stuff works. Who cares if you can't use it as the real thing. I can think of no better way to learn about transmissions than what this guy had done. And all the negative posters on Slashdot just shrug and criticize. You do this stuff because __you can__, end of story, no other reason needed. From the interest he has received I am thankful others still get joy from doing stuff for purely learning and discovery purposes. They are the ones that go on to invent cool things. The rest drool over their shiny new sealed smartphones and tablets.

Re:It's a model

[wonkey_monkey]

Camelot!

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. It absolutely is a working transmission. You can even see in the video that it is functional. However, the guy that created it is also wrong in saying that it could be a replacement for the real thing (ie: could be placed into an actual car in place of the OEM transmission). There's no way it would be durable enough to stand up to the stress it would be under in that situation.

Re: It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for auch better article summary than the one above.

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

Actual transmission gears are made from hardened steel. The parts, once cut have to be heat treated in order to withstand the extremes of actual use.

The plastic in a 3D printer is about the weakest form of plastic you will find.

I think 10 milliseconds was probably close.

Re:It's a model

[HornWumpus]

What did he learn about transmissions that he couldn't have learned building a lego 3 speed?

Re:It's a model

[mrchaotica]

Considering how much filament costs, the junkyard transmission might be cheaper.

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell what did he learn that he couldn't learn by disassembling real transmission?

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to learn how a transmission works, and you don't want to disassemble one from the local junkyard,

then you don't really want to learn how a transmission works.

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

+1, I was thinking this exactly. :)

Re:It's a model

[ceoyoyo]

It's a transmission sure. But the "for Toyota Engines" from the title might be a bit problematic. The "it could function as a replacement for the real thing" even more so.

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

Immature? It has been off the shelf technology for more than a decade now. The expense comes in part because there are more complicated parts needed than just a extrusion setup, so are made comparable to other industrial 3d printers that tend to have large working volumes or more precision than consumer models. The operating costs are still low, and there are plenty of places online you can send jobs to have printed in such machine at decent rates, cheaper than having some machinist setup a CNC machine. Even with exotic materials though, doesn't compare to the price of more traditional machining for production quantities, unless you have a really unusual shape, at which point companies will ask if it is better to change the shape to save money.

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm glad you wrote that comment! It really explained a lot and went in depth on the pros and cons of printed mechanical devices. Keep up the good work!

Re:It's a model

[msauve]

Yep. And the unqualified claim that "it's not a 'working transmission'" is every bit as incorrect as the claim that "Man 3D Prints a Working 5-Speed Transmission For Toyota Engines."

Re:It's a model

[operagost]

It would make it as long as your timing chain didn't jump a tooth, and bend a valve due to the interference design. Ironically, they used to do this because of the plastic guides. GM's Iron Duke had a similar problem with a resin gear, but it was non-interference so your teenager wouldn't torpedo the engine.

Re:It's a model

[BarbaraHudson]

Considering that he STILL doesn't understand how manual transmissions work, I'd say you've got it wrong.

"The transmission works exactly like most manual transmissions found in any car or truck,” explained Harrell. “However, I can barely explain how it works. It’s fairly hard to grasp unless you assemble one or see an animation of one opened up.”

He no more understands how a transmission works than someone assembling smartphone in Foxconn understands how an iPhone works.

Re:It's a model

[bill_mcgonigle]

Yep. And the unqualified claim that "it's not a 'working transmission'" is every bit as incorrect as the claim that "Man 3D Prints a Working 5-Speed Transmission For Toyota Engines."

The nice thing about human communication is that it doesn't need to be explicit and precise in every modicum of phrase. Context is plenty sufficient for normal humans. If somebody said "it's not a working transmission" on a story about "Man Prints a Working 5-Speed Transmission For Toyota Engines" it's absolutely qualified - by the context of the conversation to mean "it's not a working transmission for Toyota Engines".

Please don't try to destroy the effectiveness of communication by treating other humans like untrained neural nets. Work needs to be done on both ends of the conversation for maximum throughput.

Re:It's a model

[retroworks]

Being barely able to explain something which you now understand is progress if you began knowing nothing. I agree with Hodet, it seems like you are struggling for a negative comment when if you aren't interested you could perhaps just close and go read another story. Myself, I feel only better informed by knowing the number of parts in the Toyota transmission, and seeing them in a functioning scale model than I was before watching the film, but could not explain how it works. As for one of the 650,000 workers at the Foxconn factory, I didn't know they all had the same level of understanding how an iPhone works, but I would presume the average employee knows better than most Chinese people do.

Re:It's a model

[BarbaraHudson]

Here is the headline from the actual article:

Mechanical Engineer 3D Prints a Working 5-Speed Transmission for a Toyota 22RE Engine

Totally a lie.

As for the assembly workers at Foxconn, do you believe that they can explain the schematics of an iPhone? Do you believe that the people working on the assembly line at Ford can explain to you how the cars transmission works? Do you believe that the assembly line worker at the aircraft plant knows how the airplane flies?

Re:It's a model

[msauve]

...and similarly, a headline of "Man Prints a Working 5-Speed Transmission For Toyota Engines" is qualified by the article it refers to, which makes clear that both the transmission and engines are scale models.

Pot, meet kettle.

Re:It's a model

[bws111]

Exactly. I remember when I was about 8 years old I built a Revell Visible V8. It was a plastic model of a V8 engine. You could see the pistons moving, the valves opening, spark plugs firing, etc. A very valuable learning experience.

I wish that these articles and headlines were a little more honest. 'Man builds working model of transmission with 3D printing' is interesting enough. No need to add the 'could replace the real thing' hype.

Re:It's a model

[Optic7]

I have to agree with hodet's point as well. I'm pretty surprised at the negativity of some of the Slashdot crowd regarding this story.

And the headline is accurate. They could have maybe added "replica" there to make it less click-baitish, but it IS a working transmission for his 3D printed, replica Toyota 22RE engine. The video shows it working exactly like a transmission should. Perhaps we have differing interpretations of the word "working"?

Still, the headline is the fault of the website, not the creator. He has done nothing wrong. On the contrary, what he has done is really cool.

Re:It's a model

[sumdumass]

It really depends on what you mean by work. If you connect this to an engine with the drive wheels off the ground so it can freespin, you could very well run it through the gears and all for quite some time before catastrophic damage. So working in the rawest essence of turning the input shaft and selecting gears would result in corect output shaft rotation, is true. Its just not a replacement for an actual application like transfering engine power to the ground.

I can see this being useful in a fab shop (souping up 4x4s or prototyping alternative vehicle designs) or more likely, from a teaching perspective where it may be cheaper to demonstrate and allow student practice before using real parts. But outside of that, biulding a model that detailed and accurate just to say you can has long been a hoby of many people. Remember all those ships kn a bottle? Same vein or challenge. The ones that got the rigging of the sails the most accurate were really fascinating.

Re:It's a model

[sumdumass]

I guess we should just stay off the sidewalks then.

Re:It's a model

[bws111]

The summary does not even hint that it is a scale model. In fact, it contains the laugher of a line 'could replace the real thing'.

Re:It's a model

[Immerman]

Understanding something and being able to explain it are two very different things. Just because a cook knows how to make some delicate pasty, or incredible sauce, doesn't necessarily mean they could explain how to do it to someone else. One is cooking skills, the other linguistic. We could also get into the difference between knowing something and understanding it: someone may know how to dance beautifully, but have no conscious understanding of how they do it, much less be able to explain it. That can even apply to technical skills - I've know people that could dismantle a piece of broken electronics, fiddle around inside a bit, and put it back together again so that it works - without having the vaguest idea of what a capacitor or transistor does. Intuitive understanding rather than intellectual.

Re:It's a model

[idontgno]

Alas, this is Slashdot. Not only does the readership not read TFA, they generally don't read TFS, so if the title lacks succinct and complete literal accuracy, it runs the risk of telling a story completely counter to the real story.

The only ones who do read TFS are generally looking to karma-whore pedantic moderation points by manufacturing 3d-printed recreational outrage, so I guess it works out for someone.

At the end of the day, it's the soi-disant editors' fault. As usual.

(Yes, I note that the original submission had the same regrettable discrepancy between summary and title. Too bad the editors didn't do any actual editing when they had the opportunity.)

Re:It's a model

[Jawnn]

Agreed. A model is cool, don't get me wrong, but nowhere near as cool as a 3D-printed real working transmission. That's "working", as in could actually be connected to a real vehicle and perform somewhere close to the original. What we're tired of is breathless hype about something that isn't even a shadow of the claim.

Re:It's a model

[duck_rifted]

I don't think you actually meant to post flamebait. I think you wanted to just see the article discussed, and because online conversations often derail quickly these days, you got annoyed. So, I'll answer your question as if you're genuinely asking.

Let's use this article as the illustration. If you don't read the article called, "Man 3D-Prints a Working 5-Speed Transmission" because you think it's bullshit right off the bat, then you won't read the article titles "Man 3D-Prints a Working 5-Speed Transmission" when it actually happens. And if that actually happens, it would be such a breakthrough in manufacturing processes that it would mark the start of a second industrial revolution -- exactly as 3D printing proponents have been awaiting with bated breath.

The question *should be*, "Why the hell does the article call it 'working' when it's not?" And the answer is that online journalism is an effing difficult field that requires bulk content production, often regarding complicated topics, and shit happens. We're going to see increasingly more of this as robot journalists become more prevalent. So, we may want to figure out how to revise our expectations when it comes to keeping things on topic. Whether an article derails itself is, itself, not a derailment.

Well... Not unless you believe every headline exactly as it's written, in which case you should write an autobiography because that mindset could probably produce some interesting anecdotes.

Whitney Hipolite seems like a decent author though. Feel better?

Re:It's a model

[fustakrakich]

Sure hope Toyota doesn't sue him for copyright/patent violations...

Re:It's a model

[fustakrakich]

:-) Ahem.. Today is Thursday... or does daylight savings time shift that also?

Re:It's a model

[gatkinso]

Pretty... so pretty....

Re:It's a model

[digsbo]

Remember all those ships kn a bottle? Same vein or challenge.

I disagree. There's a huge difference between the fine manual detail work on something like that, and having a 3D printer do it all.

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

"did you comment here just to see your words on the screen"

So much win.

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

THIS: From the idiot that STILL doesn't understand how airplanes land, yet lectures everyone else on Slashdot about it. Fuck off, you stupid cunt. That's not trolling. It's a serious suggestion. Get off Slashdot, go somewhere else where your raining-piss negativity can join the chorus.

Re:It's a model

[GuB-42]

Sure, it is a nice model, but people are getting fed up with these 3D printing related articles. Especially with misleading headlines : he built a model, not full-size gearbox that transmits a significant amount of torque.
What this guy did is really cool, and if my friend or coworker did this I would have been very impressed but I don't consider it a newsworthy :
- It is not a breakthrough in 3D printing technology : we all knew something like this could be done, and professional 3D printers can even do this in one part, with no further assembly needed.
- It is not a breakthrough in workmanship : I find works made with traditional methods (lathe, router, hand tools, etc...) much more impressive. The works of some master craftsmen really amaze me.

His work is definitely worthy of a site that focus more on personal archivements, like hackaday.

Re:It's a model

[sumdumass]

You don't think there is fine manual detail measuring, plotting, and drafting the parts and then formting it in ways not only the printer can understand but also produce in a way without loxking up lower levels of the parts before they are finished?

I mean the story is about a lot more than pressing print and loading a feeder.

Re:It's a model

[retroworks]

My grandfather was a subsistence farmer and carpenter who grew up in a log cabin in the Ozarks. He explained to me how a transmission works. If my grandfather knew how a transmission worked, why should I disbelieve that assembly line workers at Ford know how a car's transmission works?

You on the other hand appear to have inside dope on the knowledge (or lack thereof) among 650,000 Foxconn employees, and aircraft assemblers, and Ford employees must be much greater than mine. I could only have presumed it varied by employee, based on their time working in the factory or their curiosity about their employment.

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone offered a working transmission up on ebay and you received a plastic model printed on a printer, could you get your money back? Most likely. Click bait on the Slashdot post, very cool 3D model on the mechanical engineer's part. A potential unresolved issue is who has the rights to the model, the engineer or Toyota?

Re:It's a model

[bws111]

The headline is not accurate at all. Is there a Toyota 22RE engine that this transmission works with? No. The entire headline is false. Would you be as quick to excuse a news website that ran a headline saying 'President of US Killed in Terrorist Attack' only to find several paragraphs in that they are talking about a TV show?

And while some of the blame falls on the website, more falls on the submitter of the story. This reads like yet another attempt by 3D printing zealots to make it appear 3D printing can do something it can't. Which is too bad, because as you said, this is really cool. A story about making a working model of a transmission actually shows a good and interesting use for 3D printing, beyond the usual 'battery covers!' and 'will eliminate all manufacturing!' nonsense.

To be honest, I did not read the article. Why? Because as I said, it appeared to be just another bullshit 3D printing article. Had the headline and summary been even a little bit accurate I would have read it.

Re:It's a model

[rogoshen1]

How many of us learned about anatomy by those rubber model torsos with removable organs?

Maybe it's not 'cheaper' for that particular engine/tranny, but I could see it being more cost effective to have a scaled down replica for use in instruction -- than the real thing.

Re:It's a model

[bws111]

I mostly agree with you. However, I would consider it newsworthy (with an accurate headline and summary) that someone actually found a new, interesting, and useful use for 3D printing instead of the usual 3D printing bullshit articles.

Re:It's a model

[rogoshen1]

a baby couldn't explain to you how breastfeeding works -- does that mean babies starve for lack of understanding?
acta non verba.

(his failure is in *explaining*, rather than *knowing* -- they are not the same thing, Einstein was wrong about that.)

Re:It's a model

[kenj123]

I pretty much understood what it was when I read the headline. maybe it would have been more accurate to say articulating in place of working but that would have been pretty awkward. when it comes to transmission and engine and things like that, its not *really* working unless you can put 100,000+ miles on it, under load without any breakdown. and its not ready for production unless you can multiple that by 100,000 units manufactured at a competitive price. I often think about the old Rickover story where people are trying to sell some gadget to the navy. in the story he's on the 6th floor and he tosses it out the window and tells the guy he can come back up and talk about it, if it still works.

Re: It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

Except it is working. There is even video of it hooked up to a plastic engine running and switching gears.
So it'll break into pieces on a ICE. No shit, it's plastic. But it does work.

Re:It's a model

[BarbaraHudson]

I know, but I was a bit under the weather Tuesday :-) Which was a pity, because this week we actually had two days of above-zero weather. Minus 11 tonight - oh well, next week ...

Re:It's a model

[BarbaraHudson]

Oh, you'd rather have an echo chamber where nobody can point out that the article headline was a total lie, because it's about 3d printing? Or that open source blew multiple opportunities (just one example: the long delay between the introduction of XP and Vista, then the whole Vista debacle)? You learn as much or more from your mistakes than from your successes. Or at least you should.

Re:It's a model

[BarbaraHudson]

One of my nephews works on the line assembling aircraft. He has NO clue why they fly, and it isn't needed for his job. He just builds them.

Same as most assembly jobs today. Do you think that the robots that are taking those jobs know how the things they're building work? Of course not.

In bygone days, you needed to be able to fix stuff yourself. You couldn't just have a spare part FedEx'd to you. Nowadays even repair technicians don't need to know "how it works" - they just replace parts until it does (see "car repair mechanic"). They're not going to disassemble a starter or a solenoid to repair them.

The days of replacing a burnt solenoid contact with a penny, or sandpapering down the flat spot on the commutator of a starter motor and putting it back in the vehicle, are long gone.

Re:It's a model

[BarbaraHudson]

I was replying to a poster who said that it gave the maker the understanding of how a transmission works, when even the article says otherwise. Your example is just further proof that even an infant can do something without understanding it.

Being able to visualize something working doesn't mean you understand how it works either. Otherwise we'd all have our flying cars by now.

Re: It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

I too long for the old days where you fixed things rather than ordered replacement parts or simply the it away.

But that's no excuse for your inexplicably obtuse attitude to this story. This guy is promoting a modern version of the DIY culture and you're hating on him for no reason.

Come to your senses.

Re: It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

Barbi, dear, you're being a total jackass.

STOP IT.

Re: It's a model

[BarbaraHudson]

By lying? As others have pointed out (and I agree), if he had said that he had made a working scale model of the transmission, it would still be interesting, and we wouldn't have to have this discussion, would we?

Re: It's a model

[BarbaraHudson]

Possibly. But the headline of the actual article was misleading, not just the headline of the summary. Everyone howls about how they're against clickbait and want to see at least a modicum of journalistic integrity, and yet here's an article that, if it had been presented as what it was, would have still gotten read, but they couldn't resist what the British call "sexing it up."

As for the rest, either we admit it and learn from our mistakes, or there's no hope at all. The fate of the most significant open source projects is now tied to corporate funding, so we might as well admit it and try to figure out what the next "best move" is, or leave them to become just another mode of software development that answers first to their corporate "owners."

Re:It's a model

[Anonymous Coward]

Building a model out of plastic is on no way similar to a cars transmission using metals - all he has discovered in the shape of gears, but I am willing to bet knows nothing of the synergy of the gearbox and how the synchronization of the gears works. A synchronized gear box (as they all are now) uses different metal types to achieve "gear changing" synchronization. As a learning exercise you would learn far more buy striping down and rebuilding an actual gearbox.

Re:It's a model

[LinuxIsGarbage]

Exactly. I'm getting almost as tired of these bugus 3d printing articles as I am of the kickstarter ones.

How about Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency articles?

Re:It's a model

[rogoshen1]

To quote from the article, which you also quoted:

"The transmission works exactly like most manual transmissions found in any car or truck,” explained Harrell. “However, I can barely explain how it works. It’s fairly hard to grasp unless you assemble one or see an animation of one opened up.”

Only a completely autistic, pedantic twit would discount intuition, experience, and most importantly outcome -- in favor of setting the bar for 'understanding' at being able to lecture.

Again, he's saying basically "I can't put it into words, you have to see it first hand". (note, he did assemble one. after reverse engineering it. and printing one -- is this really not obvious to you?)

Also we don't have flying cars due to physics, and it being a shitty idea.

Re:It's a model

[BarbaraHudson]

And yet he himself says he barely understands how it works after doing all that. Despite himself being an engineer. Being able to copy something doesn't necessarily impart the ability to understand or modify it - for example, by adding another speed.

So, whose word am I going to take - the engineer, who says he barely understands it after doing all that, or yours? Obviously not yours.

Forgers can make copies of documents in languages they don't understand that are good enough to fool native speakers. Copying it doesn't mean understanding. Ask any plagiarist on a final exam.

Re:It's a model

[retroworks]

World is really big. When a neighorhood becomes too rich, the repair jobs grow across the tracks. In fact Foxconn was originally a repair/upgrade operation, which eventually grew to accept contract manufacturing. Of the 7 billion people on earth, 1 billion are about as rich as you are, and of the other 6 billion, about 3 billion of them have access to knowledge of transmission motors.

Re:It's a model

[Jack Griffin]

I don't think people are hating the subject matter as much as the reporting. Is it that difficult to be able to provide intelligent headlines and summaries to your target market of intelligent people? I've given up on mainstream media completely, now I'm almost giving up on Slashdot. Now I know why old people turn into hermits.

Re:It's a model

[TheTurtlesMoves]

When someone says i can give you a working toyota gearbox, i would expect it to be well a working toyota gearbox i can fit into my toyota. If they said *model* or *scale replica* then perhaps i would expect the the toy they did make with the *help* of 3d printing. You do know that car enthusiast have and do make real gear boxes without jumping on the 3d printing bandwaggon.

These 3d printer nut jobs are going around saying things like "you will be able to just print that soon" and post articles like this. It gets tiresome. 3d printing is 20 years old and it can't even print the metal case to a iPhone (its forged to get the correct micro structure). It is useful for some parts and prototyping, but stop with "printed a real working gearbox" bullshit already.

Re:It's a model

[fustakrakich]

Minus 11 tonight...

In the house?! I hope not!

Re:It's a model

[Askmum]

While I agree to this, you could scale it up to full size. Then still, the question on "it could function as a replacement for the real thing" is not so much a "are you sure?", but "for how long?"
In other words: how much torque can this thing handle before it breaks. I'm sure it's not much and therefor it still remains a nice piece of machinery but unfit for a replacement.

Re:It's a model

[BarbaraHudson]

Right. In places like Cuba, you need someone in the neighborhood who knows how stuff works, and figure out how to keep it running with improvised repairs "a la Macgyver." Just look at how old the cars are.

Re:It's a model

[tehcyder]

How many of us learned about anatomy by those rubber model torsos with removable organs?

Well hopefully more than those who learned on live human beings with hard-to-remove organs.

Re:It's a model

[tehcyder]

I have to agree with hodet's point as well. I'm pretty surprised at the negativity of some of the Slashdot crowd regarding this story.

And the headline is accurate. They could have maybe added "replica" there to make it less click-baitish, but it IS a working transmission for his 3D printed, replica Toyota 22RE engine. The video shows it working exactly like a transmission should. Perhaps we have differing interpretations of the word "working"?

Still, the headline is the fault of the website, not the creator. He has done nothing wrong. On the contrary, what he has done is really cool.

Oh, bollocks. The article clearly implies that it's an actual, working replacement for a real transmission, although it immediately prompts the question of how a plastic gearbox could possibly work.

No one's blaming the creator of the model, as long as he isn't also the submitter.

There's nothing wrong with correctly directed negativity. If someone posted an article extolling the virtues of a neo-Nazi death cult I'm sure you'd have at least a few people complaining.

Re:It's a model

[rogoshen1]

You mean you didn't go to Mengele Elementary School?

Re:It's a model

[stoatwblr]

Look under the hood and you'll find a lot of those old cars are merely a shell for an entirely new vehicle (it's a way of avoiding punitive taxes)

Vietnam had the same problem for a long time and entire drivetrains were replaced to keep old french cars running. It wasn't uncommon to find a single cylinder lister diesel under the hood and the cabin converted to 3-4 rows of bench seating.

Come on

[finkployd]

You wouldn't download a car would you?

Re:Come on

[fph il quozientatore]

I definitely would. Who wouldn't?

Re:Come on

[serviscope_minor]

You wouldn't download a car would you?

You wouldn't steal a baby. You wouldn't shoot a policeman. And then steal his helmet. You wouldn't go to the toilet in his helmet. And then send it to the policeman's grieving widow. And then steal it again!

Downloading is STEALING.

Re: Come on

[Anonymous Coward]

Piracy Warning (IT Crowd)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg

Re:Come on

[RavenLrD20k]

Boy these anti-piracy ads are getting really mean.

Re: Come on

[Anonymous Coward]

They really needed to go over the top with that one in order to one-up the original.

Re:Come on

[Dragonslicer]

You wouldn't steal a baby. You wouldn't shoot a policeman. And then steal his helmet. You wouldn't go to the toilet in his helmet. And then send it to the policeman's grieving widow. And then steal it again!

No, but that does sound kind of like Bender's idea of a fun evening. It just needs more booze and hookers.

Re:Come on

[Anonymous Coward]

You wouldn't steal a baby. You wouldn't shoot a policeman. And then steal his helmet. You wouldn't go to the toilet in his helmet. And then send it to the policeman's grieving widow. And then steal it again!

Is that a challenge?

Re:Come on

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't copy that jalopy.

Re:Come on

[Anonymous Coward]

Please educate yourself. This is important.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487831/

Re:Come on

[rdnetto]

Please educate yourself. This is important.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487831/

I suspect you are the one in need of education. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

LOL++

[Anonymous Coward]

Car enthusiasts would joke that a poor transmission was a "glass transmission", because it's ready to shatter at any time.

Maybe now we can replace the idiom with plastic transmission. Ready to melt down once you reach second gear.

Re:LOL++

[bobbied]

This one wouldn't survive the engine starting much less than actually make it into gear... Assuming you could actually bolt the thing into place with the proper torque and not bust it first.... Plastic Transmissions, right....

"Replacement for the real thing"

[leathered]

For about 10 minutes, yes.

Plastic gears are a bad idea whatever the application but I can't see any surviving 200+ lbft of torque being put through them.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[HornWumpus]

Never last 10 minutes. There is no way he could have achieved spec clearances with 3d printed parts.

What did he use for synchros? They are wear parts, typically made of brass. He'd need something softer then his regular plastic.

I bet this transmission can't even shift while turning at a real world RPM. Not twice anyhow, will eat itself.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[BarbaraHudson]

Considering this is only a scale model, I doubt that his plastic scale engine will generate even one-tenth that before it melts. And what would you use as the facing material on the clutch disk? Or the pressure plate? The thing is going to stink like a plastic bag caught on an exhaust pipe.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on the type of plastic being used. The type you find in a desktop 3d printer, yes bad idea.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[Anonymous Coward]

It's small enough to fit in the palm of his hand. There is no sense in which this could ever be a replacement. It's a very cool model - many parts, complex geometry, high precision - and it actually shifts. That alone makes it interesting - eg, how much clean up did the gear teeth require? How much of it was 3-d printed, then refined on a mill or lathe?

Suggesting it could be a functional replacement when it's not even 1:1 scale is just trolling

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[bobbied]

Never last 10 minutes.

You are correct..

I'd like to point out though that this transmission is not totally 3D printed. Even as a model, there are metal parts in this thing. All he really did was 3D print the housing and gears and didn't really model the original article exactly but produced a 'working' representation of the actual thing. It has no synchronizers, I'm fairly sure it doesn't have the same gear ratio in each gear and he made the gear teeth much larger. Scaled up and made of metal, this thing wouldn't be all that useable for the average driver. It looks more like a truck transmission (18 wheeler) than something from a car.

As plastic, It wouldn't survive being bolted to the engine and if it did, just starting the engine and releasing the clutch would likely shear off the input shaft, even if it was in neutral. If it survived to that point, there is zero chance you'd get any kind of useful torque though to the wheels. 10 min is totally out of the question.

This will NEVER replace a real transmission for anything but a model plastic model...

Of course it is totally cool as a tool to teach mechanical engineering concepts with...

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe they used that Duralube stuff they used to show on the Infomercials to keep it cool ;-)

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[Anonymous Coward]

Plastic gears are a bad idea whatever the application

Oh come on.

When I was a kid I built a differential out of Lego. Lots of fun :)

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[ShanghaiBill]

Plastic gears are a bad idea whatever the application

Not true. Plastic gear have lower friction, less vibration, and are far quieter compared to metal gears. They cannot handle the same torque, but composite engineering plastics can come very close. It is common for planetary gearboxes to use plastic for the initial high speed stage, and metal for the second (and/or third) high torque stages.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[Anonymous Coward]

> Plastic gears are a bad idea whatever the application ...

Plastic gears are popular with good reason. FDM ABS isn't a great choice but materials like HDPE have really nice properties for use as gears.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[HornWumpus]

I built a 3 speed out of Lego.

If we can find someone who built an engine we're almost there.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[caseih]

Doesn't look like he bothered with the synchros. And at the low input speeds his demonstration uses, they aren't necessary either. The dog clutches aren't spinning that fast so as to cause a lot of damage while engaging and they take no load in this demonstration.

And even on a real car transmissions, synchros are not actually necessary on real transmissions either; you just have to know the theory of how to shift.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[Anonymous Coward]

I never saw a 22R-E with 200+ ft lb of torque. 110 maybe.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[Optic7]

All good points, but I'm still wondering where TFS got that the creator said that it would work as a replacement for the real thing. TFA doesn't say that anywhere. It seems that the submitter just made that up out of the blue?

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[Optic7]

Never mind, I found it: "Most incredibly, Harrell tells us that it could absolutely be used in a real vehicle, since it is a scaled down version of the real thing."

Yeah, I feel that the article's writer probably missed a few qualifiers or misinterpreted what the guy said. Being a mechanical engineer, I'm sure that he's quite aware that a plastic transmission wouldn't last under load from a real car engine. I imagine that what he really said was that if his thingiverse design were printed in metal that it would work.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[bobbied]

The money quote is " Most incredibly, Harrell tells us that it could absolutely be used in a real vehicle, since it is a scaled down version of the real thing."

Which I think Harrell is somewhat misrepresented into this "it would work in a real car". What he really means is that the DESIGN would work in a real car, if scaled up, made of the right materials and installed.

But I don't believe the design is practical for that. It would leak oil like a sieve with the case split like it is and doesn't have syncro's so your average driver would have serious problems shifting on the go. I'd also guess that the design would be very noisy. Not to mention that I don't think he's claiming to have copied a Toyota transmission, only to have designed and built a "working" transmission suitable for attaching to his scale engine which he previously reverse engineered.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[Anonymous Coward]

You are why some people shouldn't have children.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[StikyPad]

Thanks for clearing that up. I have some followup questions: Will clothing stop bullets if we simply print "bulletproof" on it? Also, is it safe to use bleach to remove the pigment in my iris?

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[BarbaraHudson]

You are why some people shouldn't have children.

Yep - they shouldn't have kids, so my two have less competition for ever-scarcer resources. You volunteering?

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[BarbaraHudson]

Thanks for clearing that up. I have some followup questions: Will clothing stop bullets if we simply print "bulletproof" on it? Also, is it safe to use bleach to remove the pigment in my iris?

Thank you for asking. To answer your first question, if the bullets are plastic printed to the same scale as the transmission in the article, of course it will stop it. Even if they filled it with gunpowder, the plastic shell casing will fail, and the bullet won't have enough mass to go through the paper AND the clothing.

In answer to your second question, it's 100% safe for me if you bleach your iris.

Re:"Replacement for the real thing"

[pkphilip]

This will NEVER replace a real transmission for anything but a model plastic model...

Never say never.

3D printed jet engine from Monash University, Australia:
http://www.dailytech.com/Austr...

Camelot!!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's only a model

Re:Camelot!!

[XanC]

shh

Re:Camelot!!

[Anonymous Coward]

But it's not 3D printed.

It would work just fine until...

[Anonymous Coward]

You put a load on it. Then it would be a bunch of dust. Now what is interesting is if you had one of those metal printers like they use for aircraft parts, this could get interesting for local mechanics in say 10 or 20 years if the price of raw material and printing goes down.

Re:It would work just fine until...

[onepoint]

Correct, your time frame of 10 to 20 years seems about right for metal material design firms to come up with something really strong that can come out of printer jet and make it into mass production.

Problem is ... how does one profit legally, I've got to guess that the above example is protected somehow?

Re:It would work just fine until...

[Anonymous Coward]

"just print it from metal" would result in dustification all the same. Transmission box gear is not just about the material and shape, but also surface finish and and treatment after cutting. The gears are cut from mild steel, if you put them in a transmission box just like that it would be dust in no time. So instead, after you have shape and surface finish the gears are carburized and quenched. The gear innards are still just mild steel, so they wouldn't be too brittle and shatter. There is more to mechanics than a lump of metal with the right shape.

Pretty cool

[drinkypoo]

Assembling a transmission like this isn't very useful. But I'd very much like to build a four speed transmission to use with an R/C car, and if I could print all the parts and then do for example lost PLA casting, I'd only have to do all the painstaking cleanup work of the cast parts and then assemble them.

I would have thought that by now you'd be able to call someone up and they'd just punch some buttons and a machine would spit you out some custom gears for a reasonable amount of money, but as far as I know that hasn't yet happened. Anyone know different?

Re:Pretty cool

[itzly]

It's useful if you want to learn how a transmission works and how it is assembled.

Re:Pretty cool

[drinkypoo]

It's useful if you want to learn how a transmission works and how it is assembled.

It seems like an awful lot of printing for that. I can see making them as school models, though. Then it might actually be worth it.

Re:Pretty cool

[OzPeter]

I would have thought that by now you'd be able to call someone up and they'd just punch some buttons and a machine would spit you out some custom gears for a reasonable amount of money, but as far as I know that hasn't yet happened. Anyone know different?

If you have the $$$ you can get all sorts of things printed. But while not being a public job-shop, Ford is using 3D printing for prototypes: Inside Ford's 3D Printing Lab, where thousands of parts are made

Re:Pretty cool

[drinkypoo]

Honestly, I'd rather just have gears ground from stock. And I would have imagined that by now this would just happen if you pushed some buttons. Like maybe you'd have some sort of lathe with different sizes of stock, and then that would turn to diameter and part before the gear went off to another machine to get ground. But gears are still very expensive, especially custom ones. I get why something like a crank would be expensive; it's either got to be welded expertly, forged into rough shape and machined, or machined from a big-ass billet. I get why gears have been expensive, but not why they still are. I'm sure there's several very good reasons.

Re:Pretty cool

[Whorhay]

There is such machinery but it has been pretty expensive CNC type stuff for the last few decades. Which meant that you paid a very large premium for getting a single or a few parts. My Father was just visiting though and apparently he's built one of those DIY kit CNC machines in the basement. One of the things that he specifically mentioned as being very useful was it's ability to quickly and precisely turn out gears.

Re:Pretty cool

[itzly]

It seems like an awful lot of printing for that.

Sure, but what other manufacturing technique is faster while not being overly expensive ?

Re:Pretty cool

[OzPeter]

And I would have imagined that by now this would just happen if you pushed some buttons. Like maybe you'd have some sort of lathe with different sizes of stock, and then that would turn to diameter and part before the gear went off to another machine to get ground.

You just described a modern, automated manufacturing process. They exist (and are called CNC machines, not lathes), but they are not cost effective to the point that you want.

Re:Pretty cool

[drinkypoo]

My Father was just visiting though and apparently he's built one of those DIY kit CNC machines in the basement. One of the things that he specifically mentioned as being very useful was it's ability to quickly and precisely turn out gears.

I'd like to know very much what kind of equipment he's using for that.

Re:Pretty cool

[OzPeter]

Sure, but what other manufacturing technique is faster while not being overly expensive ?

Manufacturing is a classic "Pick 2 of the 3" type tradeoffs.

Re:Pretty cool

[drinkypoo]

You just described a modern, automated manufacturing process. They exist (and are called CNC machines, not lathes), but they are not cost effective to the point that you want

Actually, CNC machines which boil down to a lathe are definitely still called lathes. Like, for example, an automated thread-cutting lathe.

What's interesting is that they are not yet cost-effective to the point that I want. They're so cheap now, the only reason must be that people who have them and are willing to make parts are already busy all the time.

Re:Pretty cool

[Bob the Super Hamste]

How reasonable is reasonable? Here is one place I used once a long time ago but for 3d machined parts (not cut sheet metal) it will start at $184. It appears that their prices have gone up since I last looked at them (about 7 or 8 years ago), but I don't know by how much.

Re:Pretty cool

[drinkypoo]

Sure, but what other manufacturing technique is faster while not being overly expensive ?

As you know, it depends on how many of them you're going to make. If the answer is a lot, then injection molding is still dramatically cheaper, in spite of using the same materials in many cases. Only in three cases does 3d printing make sense: if you're not going to make many of something, if you literally can't make something any other way, or if it's one of those rare cases where it's actually cheaper because of complexity which is really just a sort of sub-point to #2.

Re:Pretty cool

[HornWumpus]

Injection molded parts are much stronger. No cold weld planes to de-laminate and plastic hardened up under pressure (liquid plastic is compressible).

So add 'and strength not critical' to all 3 cases where it makes sense.

Re:Pretty cool

[HornWumpus]

CNC lathes are not that cheap. Also they are dangerous, capable of eating themselves, require skilled operators and programmers and use up tooling.

Also to make a finished gear you need heat treatment (outsource this, it's dangerous, dirty and expensive. Modern heat treatment is often done with molten cyanide salt baths.) and a precision rotary grinder (or a six+ axis mill incorporating a grinder) to cleanup the gear matching surfaces and bearing races after heat treatment.

Re:Pretty cool

[Whorhay]

I'm not sure what the name of the kit is, but he installed it on a milling machine that has been in the family since the 40's or 50's. Quickly might be a relative term though. My understanding of the manual process for making gears is that it is very laborous and prone to error.

One another note he was showing me some videos of high speed machining that was really neat. Apparently machinists have known since the 40's that you could in theory do very high speed machining without coolant fluids, but the technology for controling the table or bit just wasn't good enough. Now we can do it and the final part is actually cool enough to handle without gloves.

Re:Pretty cool

[Anonymous Coward]

What's interesting is that they are not yet cost-effective to the point that I want. They're so cheap now, the only reason must be that people who have them and are willing to make parts are already busy all the time.

The physics of metal cutting aren't going to change. Achieving interesting tolerances is always going to be a complicated business and involve many tradeoffs. The only room for major improvement is sensor tech, but that won't let us cut significantly faster or deeper.

Now 3d-printing combined with investment casting? That's going to have a fascinating future.

Re:Pretty cool

[HornWumpus]

Likely a CNC kit for a Bridgeport type machine.

It's not that you can't do high speed cuts without coolant (most of the heat is in the chip if you do it right). It's that if anything goes wrong the coolant can save your workpiece from melting. Cutter loses an edge on a flute? With water it completes the cut. Without?

Nobody cuts as fast as they can, they cut as fast as they dare.

I want a HAAS toolroom mill and lathe. Perfect for my garage, run on 120V. But almost $50K each, new.

Re:Pretty cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? Any RC car will be using electric motors which don't need a four speed transmission. You don't just drink poo, you post it too

And even if they did, Hobby King will sell complete assemblies for 15$, so what's the point?

3D prints

[thebes]

I really don't want to troll, but these "articles" themselves are trolling. 3D printing as a form of non-useful replication is a waste of time, as the person could have likely acquired an equivalently non-functioning identical part for less.

3D printing something which is actually useful, functional replication, reduced cost, increased availability, etc...THOSE would be useful articles to read, since it can generate positive discussion and ideas to move the technology forward.

Re: 3D prints

[ceoyoyo]

Problem is, there aren't any of those. The nearest anybody seems to have found is printing gun parts, and that's only because the parts in question are weirdly regulated by the US government.

Re: 3D prints

[onepoint]

While they can buy it for less time and money and effort...
it's the ability to teach and do it.
What's amazing about science and scientist is ( and the human race in general)
, if they see it done, then they know they can repeat it.

Tinkering for the fun of it.

Re: 3D prints

[Holi]

Your right, learning how things work is a complete waste of time.

Re: 3D prints

[OzPeter]

I really don't want to troll, but these "articles" themselves are trolling. 3D printing as a form of non-useful replication is a waste of time.

In this particular case I am not so sure it is a waste of time. The model was printed as parts and then hand assembled into the final product, and the TFA says that any person doing this would end up knowing how a real transmission was put together. Thus there is a lot of educational value in doing it.

I don't know if you have ever tried building a transmission (I haven't, but I have rebuilt a few motorcycle top ends).It also seems to me that being able to do a desk top build of a real transmission is going to be a hell of a lot easier and with far less mess than wrestling with 100 to 200lbs of metal.

Sure this transmission is nothing that couldn't have been produced with traditional injection molding, but I doubt that the tooling costs would have made it feasible to build a replica of the genuine toyota transmission for the number of people who would be printing this model.

Re: 3D prints

[darkgumby]

This seems useful. http://enablingthefuture.org/

Re: 3D prints

[ColdWetDog]

If you want to learn how a manual transmission works, get a junk small motorcycle engine, pull the head off and split the case. All of those fun gears in their oily shininess. For extra bonus points, do this on the kitchen table.

(Worked for me, my mother wouldn't let me near the kitchen for months.....)

Re: 3D prints

[thebes]

The 3D printing didn't have anything to do with it. Getting 10 failed transmissions from the junk yard, rebuilding a single good one, and using the others for various experiments would be cheaper and lead to far greater understanding. The fact that it was 3D printed is largely irrelevant and didn't make it any more accessible. If the goal was learning about transmissions, then my above example would garner far more knowledge. If it is to learn about 3D printing, there would be countless other examples (like one piece manufacturing with metal) that would yield far more impressive results, and potentially lead to improved manufacturing processes.

I didn't say "this entire exercise" had no value, I'm saying that the fact it is a 3D printed, otherwise common every day part, with no other greater derived knowledge doesn't really make it news worthy, nor generate valuable discussion for others.

People can do whatever they want with their own time.

Re: 3D prints

[Taxman415a]

Problem is, there aren't any of those. The nearest anybody seems to have found is printing gun parts, and that's only because the parts in question are weirdly regulated by the US government.

No, it seems there are at least a few good applications of 3D printing like the GP talked about such as 3D printed body part replacements like titanium jawbones. They are apparently cheaper than the alternatives, can be custom shaped to the patient, and be made faster than the alternatives. As materials improve the integration into the body is expected to improve as well. I agree though the summary of this one was bad. This was a good learning exercise and it was improperly changed to "Working" making it into something it wasn't. There's nothing wrong with learning something new, but making it out to be something it isn't is not so good.

Re: 3D prints

[ceoyoyo]

I guess if you want to call expensive industrial laser sintering "3D printing." I think most people, me included, see "3D printing", as opposed to "additive manufacturing techniques we've been using for thirty years", as something you might want to do in your home.

Yes, as 3D printers improve they will find some uses. Currently I don't think there are any good ones. There ARE interesting things being done to develop 3D printing into a useful tool, but we keep getting hype-filled stories like this one instead.

Re: 3D prints

[Anonymous Coward]

Careful; I got banned from Fark for pretty much saying the same thing, but years earlier. I saw the emperor has no clothes and the reward? Freedom of expression!

Re: 3D prints

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly, you never wasted time on learning the difference between your and you're.

What I find odd is that the entire human race just spent about half a century building a world-wide all-encompassing information network, with the idea of spreading ideas and knowledge far and wide, and yet here you are pining for the nostalgic era of ... hardware.

Weird.

Re: 3D prints

[Taxman415a]

I guess if you want to call expensive industrial laser sintering "3D printing."

But that is the standard now. Language evolves and that is now the standard usage. Wikipedia is no authority, but it does tend toward standard usage and in this case it does align with common sources. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3...

I think most people, me included, see "3D printing", as opposed to "additive manufacturing techniques we've been using for thirty years", as something you might want to do in your home.

Yes, as 3D printers improve they will find some uses. Currently I don't think there are any good ones. There ARE interesting things being done to develop 3D printing into a useful tool, but we keep getting hype-filled stories like this one instead.

Ok, see your point, but you should've specified the 3D printing methods you referred to earlier.

RRRRRRGGGHHH!!!

[Charcharodon]

QUIT TEASING ME YOU FUCKING BASTARDS!!!! I CAN"T AFFORD A 3D PRINTER RIGHT NOW!!!

I mean oh that is pretty cool.

P> Seriously I feel like the kid at school who can't afford shoes because I don't have either a CNC machine or a 3D printer in the garage.

Re:RRRRRRGGGHHH!!!

[WillAdams]

If you can get access to one or the other it's pretty straight-forward to bootstrap and make one: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/i...

Re:RRRRRRGGGHHH!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I found one in the neighbours garbage. Seems to be working, first need to figure out how to level the bed. Then I will start printing a Yaris, since I need a car, wont take long Im sure, this crap is easy!

Re:RRRRRRGGGHHH!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't even have a garage, if that makes you any better

Re:RRRRRRGGGHHH!!!

[Charcharodon]

Technically I don't either. It's full of "junk" (as per the little woman) for all the other "in work" projects. My project for 2015 is to simply finish all my projects from 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, etc or to sell/put out on the curb the materials for the ones I'll never get to.

A replacement for the real thing?

[Chris Mattern]

It looks a little small to fit in my Toyota...

Re:A replacement for the real thing?

[drinkypoo]

I wonder if it would work any better for an appropriate-scale Toyota than a 1:1 scale print would work for a 1:1 scale Toyota. Square-cube law and whatnot. Even R/C cars have all metal gears these days if they are worth a crap, but the motor output has increased substantially since olden times. And I know full well that all the gears in my first R/C kit car were plastic (Futaba FX10) because I assembled the transmission myself. It had metal shafts and all plastic gears, and no bearings whatsoever either. It was all-bushing. It lasted until I cracked the chassis in half due to jumping speed bumps on asphalt, and I still have the radio over two decades on (a JR Python, now used with a Thunder Tiger Sparrowhawk XXT.)

Re:A replacement for the real thing?

[bobbied]

It looks a little small to fit in my Toyota...

Even scaled up to full size it would be useless in your Toyota. If it survived being installed, the first time you released the clutch with it in gear just about everything inside would self destruct. There is a *reason* manufacturers use steel in these things. If plastic worked, they would have GLADLY dumped the weight decades ago.

Re:A replacement for the real thing?

[Chris Mattern]

Very true, but it takes at least a little mechanical knowledge to know that. It's immediately obvious to anyone from the article's video that it's just a scale model, yet in spite of the fact that a totally ignorant person can see in a matter of seconds that it can't be installed in an actual car, the summary still calls it "a replacement for the real thing."

Guy on the internet does something cool...

[serviscope_minor]

So a guy on the internet does something cool (yes having a fully working 5 speed transmission model like that IS cool). It took about 3 comments for people who have never done anything worthwhile in their entire lives to start shitting all over it for a variety of stupid reasons.

Sad really.

But this is a cool hack by any measure.

Re:Guy on the internet does something cool...

[chihowa]

To be fair, all of the negative comments relate to the the claim that, "Even though it is made up almost entirely of plastic, he says that it could function as a replacement for the real thing."

Had the article writer not said that (he must have misinterpreted the builder, a mechanical engineer who seems to know how transmissions work), and the submitter here not misrepresented it even further, the comments would likely be much different. It's all in the presentation. ErnieKey chose to present it as a drop-in transmission, which is not the way the article portrays it.

Re:Guy on the internet does something cool...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a hack, and not that cool.

Re:Guy on the internet does something cool...

[Anonymous Coward]

Change the name of the title to reflect the fact that this is, in fact, a model mockup and all the negative comments would go away.

Both the title and write up gives the very misleading impression that one can simply print out a fully functional transmission ( in 48 hours no less ) that you can drop in and use on a Toyota engine.

Yes, it's neat. Would make a wonderful middle school science fair subject, but functional replacement it is not.

Re:Guy on the internet does something cool...

[Anonymous Coward]

I built a real model of a transmission (and a steam engine) on my lathe and mill at home. It actually works and has worked for ten years.

Good work, smart man

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of the commentors here are ridiculous. The guy did something cool and admits that it would be a great learning tool for people that can't take apart and put together a real transmission and engine. Why does everyone have to pick apart the viability of something someone else decided to do on their free time? Did you ever think he does this just because he likes doing these things? I applaud what he's done and admit he's a lot smarter and more talented than I am.

Re:Good work, smart man

[bobbied]

Why are we harping on this? Because he says it would work as a transmission in a real car if you scaled it up to full size. That is obviously hype. It may work LIKE the full sized version does, but it is not and never will be a viable replacement transmission, even for a short time.

But how about what we really need ...

[Rambo Tribble]

... Yugo parts?

Re:But how about what we really need ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Quite possibly better in plastic than the real thing!

OK, not really, but you know what I mean...

Not so much to replace a real transmisson on a car

[Anonymous Coward]

This would be useful for schools teaching auto-tech. Each student could do their own vs hudling around one actual transmission. It would also help with understanding how a transmission actually works.

false advermatizing

[Thud457]

You know, for a site called "Thingiverse", they don't seem to have very many 3D files for printing plastic dongs.

Re:false advermatizing

[g0bshiTe]

EA and Spore copyrighted that after the penis monster explosion.

Re:false advermatizing

[GrumpySteen]

Gotcha covered

http://www.dildo-generator.com...

Keep your stereotypes to yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

"most people that are interested in 3D printing would never get the opportunity to actually rebuild an engine or transmission."

I've just spent the morning rebuilding a starter motor, I'll be spending the remainder of the afternoon doing graphic design. I think you'll find most people interested in 3d printing are quite mechanically minded and may have a better understanding of motion control than a "classically trained" mechanical engineer, especially when it comes to things like the performance of PID loops operating under significant inertia mismatch.

Metal 3D Printers

[DBCubix]

I would like to see this printed on a metal 3D printer and then see if it 1. reasonably works and 2. is a cost-effective alternative to OEM.

Re:Metal 3D Printers

[Whorhay]

Because of the stresses involved it likely wouldn't be a long term replacement. Those gears are typically cut from forged steel for good reason. The metal 3D printers I've read about don't produce products with the necessary qualities to work in this kind of application.

Re:Metal 3D Printers

[drinkypoo]

The metal 3D printers I've read about don't produce products with the necessary qualities to work in this kind of application.

These days it's possible to 3d print Inconel, so you can get gears which are hard enough. But they still won't be as smooth as gears need to be, and they're going to need cleanup before use. And at that point, you might as well just cut and/or grind the gears traditionally.

Re:Metal 3D Printers

[Bob the Super Hamste]

1. reasonably works

Probably yes

2. is a cost-effective alternative to OEM.

No, well maybe considering how much a dealer chargers of OEM parts, but it wouldn't be cost effective for aftermarket.

Re:Metal 3D Printers

[bobbied]

I would like to see this printed on a metal 3D printer and then see if it 1. reasonably works and 2. is a cost-effective alternative to OEM.

Question 1's answer: You could likely get a metal article out of a 3D printer that worked, but it would NOT be durable.

Question 2's answer: Not on your life. IF it was cost effective to 3D print alternative transmission parts, you could bet the OEM's and their parts suppliers would be jumping at the chance to save some coin. For transmission parts, they obviously are not doing that, so it seems obvious that it's not a cost effective approach.

But I think there is a third question you need to ask yourself... Would this be useful for PROTOTYPE work? I think the answer is "Likely so" but I'd like to point out that the durability of a printed metal part is going to be pretty bad and a lot of a prototype transmission will still likely be machined out of steel if it is intended to be functional enough to drive around.

Re:Metal 3D Printers

[HornWumpus]

Hard is not sufficient. Hard is brittle. Gears are heat treated in tricky ways. Harden the surface while leaving the core tough.

You'd have to build big old gears to make them out of Inconel. HSS is a better material choice.

Re:Metal 3D Printers

[Anonymous Coward]

I would like to see this printed on a metal 3D printer and then see if it 1. reasonably works and 2. is a cost-effective alternative to OEM.

3D printing a mold for investment casting is much more promising. Printers are still getting faster and more accurate. In 5 years, your local foundry will be advertising 1-day turnaround on complex, intricate parts in steel (or titanium) at prices that will make machinists weep.

Re:Metal 3D Printers

[HornWumpus]

Your town still has a local foundry?

You realize that titanium has to be cast in a nitrogen environment?

So far... why?

[garyoa1]

About the only thing I can think of that a 3D printer would be useful for would be to replace a little leg that you might break off of your keyboard. Or maybe even make one that's higher than the original. But 3k for a printer or $30 for a new keyboard? I'm voting for the new keyboard.

Re:So far... why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I see one good use.
Let's say you want to cast a part in metal. To do that you need to make a mold (in sand, say), and in order to make the mold, you need a sample of the part. You could print the sample in plastic, and then ram up the sand around it to make your mold. Remove the plastic piece, put the mold together in your flask, and pour molten metal. Once things cool you have the metal part that you can clean up and use.

Re:So far... why?

[Moof123]

3D printing is bar far the coolest fail ever.

Re:So far... why?

[Anonymous Coward]

You lack imagination. 3D printers - even plastic ones can be good for lots of things. Just not anything that has to survive friction, take high loads, have high precision or be cheap to mass produce. On the upside, you get some awesome freedom in design geometry that would be near impossible with any other method.

Re:So far... why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or, experiment and learn with it, which is obviously not what you are interested in.
So, why are you here?

Re:So far... why?

[Anonymous Coward]

About the only thing I can think of that a 3D printer would be useful for would be to replace a little leg that you might break off of your keyboard.

3D printed molds for investment casting. In twenty years, every metal part that can't be stamped, forged, or trivially machined from stock will be made this way. The cost will undercut everything else.

Re:So far... why?

[Pontiac]

There are folks in the RC car world that are 3D printing parts for vintage RC Cars that are not supported by the manufacturer anymore.

All kinds of things like transmission cases, suspension mounts, control arms, steering arms.

There was one project that built a replica of the 1991 World champion RC10 that was never released to the public. It's made from a mix of 3D parts, stock parts and milled carbon fiber plate.

As for useful 3d printed items.. How about a rocket engine using a sintered metal process.
http://www.gizmag.com/3d-printed-rocket-seds/29306/

You can also 3d print wax for investment casting a metal final product. (you can do this at home)
http://www.stratasys.com/solutions-applications/digital-manufacturing/tooling/investment-casting

Lots of ways to use a 3D printer if you use your imagination.

Re:So far... why?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a way for anyone to make jewellery, replica miniatures for board games, propellers for R/C aircraft and boats, models of movies characters and props from 3D files, printing out 3D models acquired from stereoscopic microscopy so that blind students can understand what things look like; compound eyes of insects, microfractures in metals, funky smartphone cases, models of mathematical functions with three variables...

http://www.shapeways.com

Intellectual Property...

[Anonymous Coward]

Intellectual Property infringement takedown notice in 3...2..1...

Re:Not so much to replace a real transmisson on a

[WillAdams]

Agreed. I'd also love to see one at the service desk at a car dealership.

plastic's old and busted, hot metal is new hotness

[Thud457]

geeze, just print the parts in wax and then do green sand or investment casting of whatever metal is suitable.
You savages are capable of melting metal, aren't you?!

Design of a open source robot to automate the metal casting process is left as an exercise for the student.

Re:plastic's old and busted, hot metal is new hotn

[drinkypoo]

geeze, just print the parts in wax and then do green sand or investment casting of whatever metal is suitable.

I've looked into this, and I haven't been able to find an open source wax extruder, only mentions of one. And the pictures of prints produced by it (for an art exhibit, from beeswax) looked pretty awful. So in the best case, there would be substantial cleanup to do after printing, and/or after casting.

However, there is such a thing as "lost PLA" casting. Yes, that's just what it sounds like...

Re:It would work just fine until Not really

[BoRegardless]

"Journalists" ought to learn more about what they write and posters ought to do the same. "Man makes working model of 5 speed transmission" would be a better title. But what was the point?

RP metal parts have layer build thickness and microdroplets forming the parts meaning they have surface finish and tolerance issues that will never be solved to make a high volume "production" part with required properties in any economical time span.

The finer the build layer, the better the surface finish, the longer the build, but there is still a limiting surface finish and tolerances that are not good enough for high load and wear situations. Then comes the issue of heat treat hardness, which current materials can't handle. Can't do that with materials used now as they don't do steel alloys yet.

RP is good for certain demo and non-toleranced or critical but complex parts that can justify the extra finishing in the limited materials available, but those are far and few between.

Not a useful thing

[Anonymous Coward]

FFS!
A plastic transmission is of no use in a car. Might as well print it in chilled butter. At least you could eat it when you were done stripping the "gears".

8 years and now I'm done

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot has its time, now is bulshit. Goodbye

Re:8 years and now I'm done

[Holi]

Bye

Cooler Article from same site

[Scottingham]

http://3dprint.com/49406/tetra...

That shows a new nano-scale 3d printer that can create intricate objects in the 400x400mm range versus the 3x3mm range of other nano-scale printers of the same resolution.

THAT is some potentially revolutionary shiz!

Material Science

[Anonymous Coward]

I love 3D printing and all, but do people realize how much time and effort has gone into material science, especially in cars? I mean, cars broke constantly for decades, sometimes due to design, but mostly due to the materials not being up to par. Remember when cars needed to get their valves replaced after 75,000 miles? Remember when fan belts and engine seals would need replacement every 30,000 miles? I don't think people understand how far materials have come. 3D printed parts just won't work in a lot of applications.

Re:plastic's old and busted, hot metal is new hotn

[Pope Hagbard]

What does the People's Liberation Army have to do with casting?

Re:plastic's old and busted, hot metal is new hotn

[rwa2]

... or, you know, you could just print the damn thing in metal. It's not like it's going to take that much longer for 3D printers to be capable of printing in metal.

Oh, look: http://www.gizmag.com/3d-print...

FOR FUCK'S SAKE

[Anonymous Coward]

Could you STOP with the sensationalistic headlines!!???? FUCK YOU and your 3D cock gobbling!

HE MADE A *MODEL*!!! Like the Visible V8 engine kits I could buy as a kid THIRTY YEARS AGO!!!!

This is about as much a news item as someone from the 1970s vacuum forming a wing for a model airplane. You can see how many people have vacuum forming machines at home now, right?

It's a hobby, a fad, like a Pet Rock.

OK GO

[rwa2]

The files are out there, find the torrent!
http://fortune.com/2015/01/13/...

okay so this is a model but...

[Virtucon]

and you can buy them probably cheaper than you can print them. But still it's pretty cool.

Steel

[Iamthecheese]

I'm anxiously awaiting the improvement of the technology. When real car parts can be printed without much time, expertise, or expense it will have a massive impact.

Re:Steel

[Anonymous Coward]

They already are, it's called stamping, forging, machining, etc... The massive impact? We're already in it.

Re:plastic's old and busted, hot metal is new hotn

[currently_awake]

You don't want to make gears by casting, you want machined metal, probably with heat treating. You could definately prove the design this way though, before building a real one.

Mistakes...

[Anonymous Coward]

No clutch, no synchros on the transmission. 22RE Engine is not gear drive on the cam, it's chain drive.

Works just fine

[Anonymous Coward]

Just print any weak parts in titanium: http://i.materialise.com/materials/titanium

plus many more in order to assemble the device

[BronsCon]

He's doing it wrong.

Re:plastic's old and busted, hot metal is new hotn

[Anonymous Coward]

3d printing with metal has been around for decades, although typically involving machines costing 100 to 1000 times as much as machines intended for hobbyists. Lost wax style casting, even if done with foams and plastics, is still a lot cheaper (and sometimes stronger/better depending on particular use case, and is used at the higher level too).

Cracks

[ThatsNotPudding]

Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks like it already has a crack in the shifter retainer plate and the housing below the shifter (visible in one picture but not another). Also seems odd that he didn't seem to go through the whole pattern, but just first to second. Maybe the printed clutch failed.

Re:plastic's old and busted, hot metal is new hotn

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen some things made using a similar process before, they would be useless for most applications without significant amounts of additional machining. The process is really only useful for getting the basic shape of an object not fine things like gear teeth or bolt threads. Also some of the characteristics you get from metal being forged can be quite desirable and cannot generally be achieved by simply pouring molten metal into a mold.

Re:plastic's old and busted, hot metal is new hotn

[X0563511]

It's not that simple...

The metal contracts as it cools. You have to scale up the model to compensate, and that takes knowledge you don't generally get without working with casting a LOT.

To make things interesting, the amount of scaling that's required changes based on the metal/alloy being used, and the -shape- of the object at that given area.

While he's at it, how about Toyota accelerators?

[sethstorm]

Perhaps he can figure out why Toyotas end up going places like brick walls, or going forward when you don't want to ;)

Great teaching tool.

[B33rNinj4]

While I would never use this in my car, I can see it being very beneficial as a teaching tool in classrooms.

Grind it 'till you find it!

[Anonymous Coward]

He forgot to print a clutch pedal. Stop shifting without pressing the clutch!

Re:While he's at it, how about Toyota accelerators

[Anonymous Coward]

Because of the loose nut behind the wheel.

warm engine.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bet ya coulnt bolt it to a warmed up engine without squishing it.

stop wasting time

[Anonymous Coward]

print me a fucking double pepperoni deep dish pizza that doesnt taste like ass and i will start paying attention

Re:plastic's old and busted, hot metal is new hotn

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what everyone is forgetting in this whole 3D printer euphoria. The shape of something is one part, the material it's made from is a second part, but the actual processing and treatment of that material (especially metals) has a huge effect on it's properties. I think it will be a long time before a 3D printer can make something with the properly annealled or tempered structure.

Re:plastic's old and busted, hot metal is new hotn

[Anonymous Coward]

thank you thank you thank you. machining, forging, annealing, rolling, etc. wont be replaced by this 3d printing tech. I will not want to drive a 3d printed car. the tensile strength will be worse.

Re:plastic's old and busted, hot metal is new hotn

[stoatwblr]

" I think it will be a long time before a 3D printer can make something with the properly annealled or tempered structure."

You might be pleasantly surprised. For starters you can always anneal/heat treat the output after it leaves the printer.

I think reverse engineering a commodity vehicle gearbox and making a working replica out of plastic is a fairly impressive achievement.

FWIW one of my high school maths teachers was a gearbox designer for a UK road machinery manufacturer. He quit not long after he was told that his designs for grader (aka road graders or motor graders) gearboxes were too reliable and they would be degrading the specification markedly in order to be able to sell more parts. Unsurprisingly the company no longer exists.

Obligatory Python reference

[edittard]

Camelot!

Alex

[minhtrangpeo15]

http://thammyvienuytin.net/nan...