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Hertz Puts Cameras In Its Rental Cars, Says It Has No Plans To Use Them

schwit1 writes Hertz has added a camera to many of its newer cars that uses the "NeverLost" navigational device. So why is Hertz creeping out customers with cameras it's not using? "Hertz added the camera as a feature of the NeverLost 6 in the event it was decided, in the future, to activate live agent connectivity to customers by video. In that plan the customer would have needed to turn on the camera by pushing a button (while stationary)," Hertz spokesperson Evelin Imperatrice explained. "The camera feature has not been launched, cannot be operated and we have no current plans to do so."

45 of 188 comments (clear)

  1. Why don't i believe them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "The camera feature has not been launched, cannot be operated and we have no current plans to do so."

    So we're to believe hertz put the cameras there for no reason other than to hurt their business by scaring away customers, because may be someday they may want them?

    1. Re:Why don't i believe them by meerling · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And at a huge cost. There's no way they did that without planning on using them for something, and that something wouldn't be a vague might happen kind of thing either, but a concrete we "need" this from the higher ups.

    2. Re:Why don't i believe them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "The camera feature has not been launched, cannot be operated and we have no current plans to do so."

      So we're to believe hertz put the cameras there for no reason other than to hurt their business by scaring away customers, because may be someday they may want them?

      I'm just guessing here, but I'd bet that their hardware manufacturer has been marching forward and may have added the camera to the "latest" model and Hertz is just buying the hardware off the shelf from them. The camera may have some prospective future use which has not been fully defined, but the main reason it's there is it came with the off the shelf hardware. Getting something without a camera may now be more expensive, at least something with the other features they want/need like more memory, better CPU's and more storage.

      Custom hardware is insanely expensive to develop and it's way cheaper to go off the shelf in most cases and if the off the shelf offering has a camera, you get a camera. It's not like Hertz is buying these things by the tens of thousands, but likely only a few hundred a month in specific high volume markets to replace older and ailing units as they come out of service.

    3. Re:Why don't i believe them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I for one lost my blind trust of the american corporation years ago. but good for you its nice to see some haven't

    4. Re:Why don't i believe them by BronsCon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That was my initial thought. Hertz isn't a TLA government agency, so why the conspiracy theories from everyone? Glad to see some people here still have a level head.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    5. Re:Why don't i believe them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not a conspiracy to be put off by someone installing a camera in a space that one typically expects a degree of privacy.

    6. Re:Why don't i believe them by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

      Well, considering Samsung's cameras on TVs pretty much give Orwellian access to anyone stupid enough to hook their TV to the internet, along with several other pieces of info about cameras, such as on phones or computers being used without their users' awareness, I'd say you're lacking a level head if you didn't think "conspiracy" the moment you see a camera in an unexpected place.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    7. Re:Why don't i believe them by BronsCon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Here's the difference between businesses and TLAs, though: A business will tell you about the features it is offering, the TLAs will deny they're doing anything at all. Samsung made it clear they put cameras in those sets, and that those cameras (and microphones) were used to control the TV by means of transmitting recorded data to a third-party server for processing. There's no conspiracy there, they told you as much when you bought it (whether you listened or not is another issue). Plus, as you said, the cameras are obviously visible. Hertz's cameras are likewise, and they say they're not using them (yet), which I tend to believe; they have to know that a lie today will be found out tomorrow and I don't think they're that stupid.

      The only instances I recall of a company lying about surveillance have involved them behaving in an entirely covert, non-obvious (am I being redundant, here?), manner, with the idea that, by drawing no attention, they would not be found out. This is the antithesis of that. I'll let you put that together for yourself.

      What's the quickest way to go out of business today? Tell customers you're not spying on them, then spy on them anyway. People are very much apathetic when it comes to security (a-la "oops, we didn't realize the data we told you we were collecting and sending over the internet could be read by anyone), but not so much when it comes to targeted surveillance of themselves and their families, so lying about this at this juncture would would be Hertz's death knell.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    8. Re:Why don't i believe them by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      There's no way they did that without planning on using them for something, and that something wouldn't be a vague might happen kind of thing either, but a concrete we "need" this from the higher ups.

      Have you ever attended a meeting? One where decisions were made? Why do you think that Hertz is less dysfunctional at planning and making logical and well thought out decisions than your organization?

    9. Re:Why don't i believe them by kheldan · · Score: 2

      Just put a piece of electrical tape over the goddamned thing if and when you have to rent a car from them and forget about it.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    10. Re:Why don't i believe them by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      Using electrical tape is much less likely to get you arrested for vandalism.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    11. Re:Why don't i believe them by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When planning a project or choosing a strategy, risk must be assessed. Risks come as both threats and opportunities.

      You can handle a threat in many ways: Avoid, by taking actions which do not allow for that particular risk; Mitigate, by taking actions which minimize the probability or severity of the risk; Transfer, by purchasing insurance to cover the risk; or Accept, by budgeting for the risk. You can similarly handle an opportunity: Exploit, by taking actions to 100% guarantee that particular risk will occur; Enhance, by taking actions to increase the probability that the risk will occur; Share, by taking actions with a third-party that increase probability of the risk occurring, but share the benefit with another party (lottery pool); or Accept, by doing nothing and hoping it happens.

      With many plans on the table, you often have to select which risks to accept in exchange for opportunities to enhance. Adding extra, unused hardware for a possible future strategy can save you from missing out on that strategy, or from higher expenses to add the hardware later.

  2. Duct tape by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Handyman's Secret Weapon.

    1. Re:Duct tape by itzly · · Score: 5, Funny

      Or get a banana with a sticker on it. Eat the banana, and put the sticker over the camera.

    2. Re:Duct tape by funwithBSD · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I use regular cellophane tape. It is opaque enough to destroy the image, clear enough not to be exactly sure why. Looks like a heavy smudge of grease/oil, like you touched it while eating fries or something.

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    3. Re:Duct tape by prattle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What do you do about the microphone?

      --
      "We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different!" -- Kurt Vonnegut
    4. Re:Duct tape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Realize you have no control over it. You don't know where "the" microphone is, whether it is active, nor how many there are. And you never will.

    5. Re:Duct tape by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Funny

      But I don't like bananas :(

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    6. Re:Duct tape by Thanshin · · Score: 5, Funny

      But I don't like bananas :(

      Well. Tough luck. To be a privacy conscious person, one has to eat bananas.

    7. Re:Duct tape by MitchDev · · Score: 4, Funny

      or put a picture from another car of all the passengers and the driver with their hands in the air screaming in terror in front of the lens....

  3. No plans ... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You don't do something unless you have plans to use it. I call bullshit.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    1. Re:No plans ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Internet says Hertz keeps cars for an average of 18 months.
      So installing these things only makes sense if they have plans to use them within that timeframe.

    2. Re:No plans ... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      they said 'no CURRENT plans'.

      isn't that enough wiggle room to create NEW plans, later?

      what this will mean is that the 'field test' shows we are not passive enough to accept this surveillance. they'll try again in n+1 units of time and see if we've become more passive and are willing to tolerate it.

      if that fails, there's always hiding mics and cameras inside the dash. I'm sure they have spent some time in boardrooms discussing exactly that, too.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:No plans ... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You don't do something unless you have plans to use it. I call bullshit.

      No necessarily true. If you are investing in hardware for a fleet, some future proofing can make sense even if you don't have a specific use in mind.

    4. Re:No plans ... by jratcliffe · · Score: 2, Informative

      These things can be (and are) removed from the cars and moved into new ones. It's not a permanent installation.

    5. Re:No plans ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      “We do not have adequate bandwidth capabilities to the car to support streaming video at this time,”

      Notice that this doesn't mention *local* recording - say, a snapshot every 30 seconds or so. Then auto-upload via WiFi when the car returns to the agency. This might be very valuable for corporate marketing research, and to catch people doing things in the cars that their contract frowns on :-)

    6. Re:No plans ... by houghi · · Score: 2

      In general I would agree. e.g. if you have some sort of socket, like USB, you might not have use for it now, but might want to use it for future use.

      However a camera has an extremely limit use. It captures images. So if you buy a camera, you do it with the intend to capture images.

      It might well be that they are not yet sure about the details. e.g. keep only the last 30 minutes, the last person who drove it, have it turned on and of depending if you take insurance or whatever, but the intend is clear: to take images.

      A camera is not futureproofing.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  4. God I hate those neverlost things by redmid17 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've gotten a few rental cars from Hertz with the GPS devices. You can only turn the brightness down a bit. They cannot be turned off. I did notice the camera, so I just tossed my jacket over over it. I just request a car without that device now. Besides I have phone GPS which frankly is easier to use.

    1. Re:God I hate those neverlost things by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 2

      I've gotten a few rental cars from Hertz with the GPS devices. You can only turn the brightness down a bit. They cannot be turned off. I did notice the camera, so I just tossed my jacket over over it. I just request a car without that device now. Besides I have phone GPS which frankly is easier to use.

      Seconded. I tried to use NeverLost once. UI was terrible, and the turn instructions were either late, or unclear, resulting in my getting...lost. Next rental, I had my Garmin with me. Worked like a charm.

    2. Re:God I hate those neverlost things by jratcliffe · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can just turn them off. Button's on the side or top. Takes two seconds, although you do have to do it every time you start the car, which is kind of annoying.

    3. Re: God I hate those neverlost things by jo7hs2 · · Score: 2

      I came here to say just this...I had one of these systems in a car I rented from Hertz in October. Aside from the fact that they wanted you to check in via video conference and the system was down yet the staff didn't want to help... And aside from the fact that I actually asked for a car without GPS... The most annoying part of the experience was this damn system. It had an off switch/brightness switch that was deactivated, and it was positioned in this particular car in such a manner that it completely blinded me at night to the right side. No right sided vision and no use of the rear view mirror, because all I could see was this god-awful 100% on LCD blasting like a friggin spotlight at me. It didn't help that it was raining, so the light was also reflected off the car windows. Seriously, Hertz...let us turn them off or at least turn down the damn brightness.

    4. Re:God I hate those neverlost things by tompaulco · · Score: 2

      Besides I have phone GPS which frankly is easier to use.

      That is pretty said if they have developed an in-car device that is less useful than a phone. Why don't they just buy cars with GPS? Just about every car has it at least as an option these days. You get a much larger screen, no worrying about batteries dying, usually a much less dangerous UI than a phone or other separate GPS, and some models even have limited inertial navigation for when you go into tunnels or are traveling in mountainous areas.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  5. And now, your daily dose of tinfoil hattery by Iamthecheese · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
  6. No plans to do so by bengoerz · · Score: 4, Funny

    We had plans to launch the camera feature. At least, enough to actually bother paying for cameras to be installed. But (now that our intent has been covered in the media), we no longer have such plans.

  7. god hertz sucks by rogoshen1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I just had a rental from them while my car was in the shop -- Chrysler 200 -- it had the annoying as feck GPS / nav unit.

    On vehicle start up, after about 5 seconds it would play a super annoying jingle followed by "Hertz!". No way to turn down the volume, disable it, or turn off the nav unit entirely.

    Starting the car.. I felt like Peter on office space preparing to get shocked by the door handle.

    Methinks that they went this route to stop people from going postal on that fucking thing, and destroying it. (After a week I was about to.)

  8. OnStar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Do you recall OnStar? They would let the FBI listen in on car conversations without the passengers being aware.

    http://subliminalnews.com/archives/000119.php

    Of course they would NEVER use these, no way, go about your business citizen.

  9. No plans to use Hertz!!! by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I love these MBA types who come up with these pretty much psychopathic ways to make a few extra bucks and don't realize that people will have a violently negative reaction.

    I call this spreadsheet thinking; that is where a person has a spreadsheet showing the millions of car rentals and then adds a new line item where they make a few extra pennies per rental and it makes the bottom line go up by a nice jump. Then the MBAs give each other nice bonuses based upon this "brilliant" plan. What they don't have is a line item where their customers will actually pay more to use a different rental company that doesn't have cameras in their cars. The MBAs will just call them a few "irrational" actors who need to "get a life". Then when the media gets a hold of this they will say that "It was blown out of proportion" and eventually they will retreat saying that they need to "reposition" the technology.

    The lesson the company won't learn is to stop hiring psychopathic MBAs.

    1. Re:No plans to use Hertz!!! by dcw3 · · Score: 2

      Do you really think they give a shit, when 99%+ will not care, and the overall impact still is in their favor? Or, when all of the other rental companies pile on, and you have no other options, will you boycott them all?

      For the record, I'm against this move, and would likely stick electrical tape over any camera.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
  10. Re:Well of course theyre not going to use them by Dracos · · Score: 2

    Exactly. The NSA will use them.

  11. If only there was a way. by sunking2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    "This week I got an angry email from a friend who had just rented a car from Hertz: “Did you know Hertz is putting cameras in rental cars!? This is bullsh*t. I wonder if it says they can tape me in my Hertz contract.” He sent along this photo of a camera peeping at him from out of his “NeverLost,” a navigational device that the company has started putting in many of its cars:"

    Here's a crazy idea, read the contract you signed.

  12. Re:PostIt notes now are even more useful by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 3, Funny

    I have an evil-genius 2-step plan on how to fight this.

    first, you need to have a small a/v player. hey, smart phones can play audio and video! now, we need a reducer so that we can 'pipe' the video into the camera, optically, to create the illusion that the car is empty (or in any state we want). easy to pipe in audio, simply by putting the phone spkr near the mic.

    2nd part of the plan is to edit the contract (adding a section) that says you may, at your option, provide 'performance art' inside the car. something to that effect.

    now that you've set it up, have some fun! what could you record that would be great for playback, for them to see? fake a murder? fake a corporate take-over? fake a plot of some kind? some other kind of intentional mis-direction?

    you already covered yourself by the performance-art clause. you can laugh it off when you sign their contract and just make a joke about the camera. if done properly, they won't know what you have in mind.

    the rest, as they say: 'hillarity will ensue'.

    and unless its illegal (its not) to pipe in any video stream you want in front of a spycam, you can do this and mess with their data collection while having some well-earned laughs at their expense.

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  13. Way too much credit by monkeyxpress · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Even if someone higher up at Hertz had a devious plan to install these cameras into every vehicle and covertly film all their customers, there is no way in hell that any rental car company I know of could implement such a system. Most of the time they can barely get you the car you supposedly booked for the price you were quoted. I once got stuck in a huge mismanaged queue at Avis for an hour and when I finally got to the front they told me a car was not available. When I said I had booked one so how could this be, the customer service person informed me that I was half an hour late so if I wanted to ensure I got a car I should turn up on time.

    I also have no idea why my collecting a car I have booked requires so much typing on their behalf. It is like they are writing a short dissertation on me, every time I rent a car. Surely if I rent another car the same month the amount of typing can be reduced. I have caught a glimpse of their green character based IT terminals and I am pretty certain there is no secret skunk works at Hertz HQ working on anything other than more confusing ways to charge collision damage waivers.

    1. Re:Way too much credit by hawguy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even if someone higher up at Hertz had a devious plan to install these cameras into every vehicle and covertly film all their customers, there is no way in hell that any rental car company I know of could implement such a system. Most of the time they can barely get you the car you supposedly booked for the price you were quoted.

      I've never had a problem getting the rate I was quoted. It's common that they are out of the particular car class I ordered, but that's to be expected, they don't have unlimited room to store each of a dozen car classes. They've always either upgraded me for "free" (except that the upgraded car often uses more gas, so it's not really "free", but I've had good luck talking them into giving me a Hybrid when that happens if they have one available), or gave me a discount for a downgraded car.

      I once got stuck in a huge mismanaged queue at Avis for an hour and when I finally got to the front they told me a car was not available. When I said I had booked one so how could this be, the customer service person informed me that I was half an hour late so if I wanted to ensure I got a car I should turn up on time.

      Rental agencies overbook just like the airlines, but it's harder for them to ensure supply when people don't return cars on time, at least an airline knows that they can seat 300 people on a 300 person aircraft, the rental agency isn't sure if they'l have 0 or 50 cars on the lot by the time you get there because some people may be late, or they may have sent a lot of cars on one-way trips. It's a tough logistical problem.

      I also have no idea why my collecting a car I have booked requires so much typing on their behalf. It is like they are writing a short dissertation on me, every time I rent a car. Surely if I rent another car the same month the amount of typing can be reduced. I have caught a glimpse of their green character based IT terminals and I am pretty certain there is no secret skunk works at Hertz HQ working on anything other than more confusing ways to charge collision damage waivers.

      If you rent a car regularly, sign up for the rental agency's premier club. When I used to travel a lot, my company rented from Avis and Hertz almost exclusively, I was in both of their permier rental programs, and when I got to the car lot I could just find the car with my name on it, and drive away, showing my ID to the guy at the gate. The other advantage is that my premier reserved car is *always* there, even if they have to turn away other customers to make sure the car is there.

    2. Re:Way too much credit by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      I've never had a problem getting the rate I was quoted. It's common that they are out of the particular car class I ordered, but that's to be expected,

      I am not going to use Hertz again.

      In the past, one paid extra for the convenience of an on-airport car-rental location and perhaps a nicer bus. Now, all the car rental locations are in the same building (unless you are using a small, local company) and at some (many) airports, the busses are also pooled. So the primary advantage of Hertz is gone for me.

      On my last rental, I declined the navigation system. Yet on returning it, I was charged for the navigation system. Was this an accident? I am suspicious that it was not.

      On this same rental, I asked for additional drivers. At no point was I told that there was an extra cost for this. Yet, I was charged extra. This may be legal, but it was deceptive.

      Hertz, you lost my business.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  14. Re:As if we needed another reason to not use Hertz by Obfuscant · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not like there aren't competitors, who I avail myself of at all times.

    The car rental universe is going the way of broadband internet, don't you know? There are three major companies now operating under several names each. Like:

    - Avis owns Budget and Zipcar

    - Hertz owns Advantage, Dollar and Thrifty

    - Enterprise owns Alamo and National

    All told, these three companies own 94% of the car rental industry in America.

    If you want to avoid one company, you need to know all the players and who they play for.