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Sony Buys, Shuts Down OnLive

Jay Maynard writes The OnLive gaming service that rose from the dead and became an inexpensive way to get high-end performance on low-end hardware has now been purchased by Sony Entertainment. Their games, desktop, and SLGo Second Life services will all end on April 30, 2015, and be free to use until then."

39 of 249 comments (clear)

  1. The future of console games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And this is why I refuse to buy games that require a connection to some corporate server to play.

    1. Re:The future of console games by Foxhoundz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Exactly my thought. This is why I buy loads of games from gog.com and will never buy a thing from Steam.

      steam has already confirmed that they would allow a final local download of user's library should they go under.

    2. Re:The future of console games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      And you believe them? Talk about naive...

      If they go under they aren't going to give a crap about you and if another company buys Valve and shuts it down they aren't going to care about you either.

    3. Re:The future of console games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      The only thing that requires Steam to still be around is the multiplayer system Steamworks.

      In order to play *any* game bought from Steam, the Steam client must be running and have an internet connection.

      That being said, they've stated that if they ever shut down, they will remove the Steam DRM before they shut down.

      HAHAHA! That's precious. If they ever shut down, they would have zero incentive to do anything like that and every incentive not to. "Offline mode" (a misnomer if ever there was one) can only work offline for a set period of time. Basically it turns your game into trialware, wherein you must then check-in with Valve to re-up every so often.

      Also, what happens if Valve or the Steam service gets bought out by another company and is then shut down? What happens if individual game rights holders pull their games off of Steam? You're SOL, that's what.

    4. Re: The future of console games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So if Steam ever goes away or a game dev pulls their game, you have to download a pirated copy of the entire game from nosTEAM just to play what you paid for. Great plan.

    5. Re:The future of console games by LazyBoot · · Score: 5, Informative

      The only thing that requires Steam to still be around is the multiplayer system Steamworks.

      In order to play *any* game bought from Steam, the Steam client must be running and have an internet connection.

      That's not true! I have several games on Steam that will run just fine on it's own (I can even copy them to my laptop without Steam installed and they work there too).
      Not all the games on steam use Steamworks or any sort of DRM...
      Kerbal Space Program is one example.

    6. Re:The future of console games by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      In order to play *any* game bought from Steam, the Steam client must be running and have an internet connection.

      HAHAHA! That's precious. If they ever shut down, they would have zero incentive to do anything like that and every incentive not to. "Offline mode" (a misnomer if ever there was one) can only work offline for a set period of time. Basically it turns your game into trialware, wherein you must then check-in with Valve to re-up every so often.

      No, actually it doesn't. Offline mode ring any bells? Permanent offline mode? I guess not. Both work just fine. I've been running offline mode on my laptop for nearly 2 years now, strange how it doesn't need to reconnect. Of course you do need to edit a ini file for permanent offline mode to work, but that's trivial.

      Also, what happens if Valve or the Steam service gets bought out by another company and is then shut down? What happens if individual game rights holders pull their games off of Steam? You're SOL, that's what.

      In my case, the company who are the rights holders are legally required to provide me a copy. The same thing happens if they pull it off steam. Perhaps you should try updating your laws to reflect a digital society instead of bitching and moaning, I'm going to guess you're american which would explain a lot. Considering those of us up here in Canada, strangely don't seem to bitch and moan over things anymore, we actually accomplish what we set out to do.

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    7. Re:The future of console games by rudy_wayne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And you believe them? Talk about naive...

      If they go under they aren't going to give a crap about you and if another company buys Valve and shuts it down they aren't going to care about you either.

      It isn't just a question of Valve going out of business.

      http://arstechnica.com/gaming/...

      Sony bought OnLive to get their patent portfolio. It's the only thing Sony cared about. That's why they bought them and shut them down.

      No matter what Valve says, the same thing could happen to them. And when it happens, they won't be able to do any of the things they have promised because someone else is calling the shots and they no longer have any say in it.

    8. Re:The future of console games by LT218 · · Score: 4, Informative

      In order to play *any* game bought from Steam, the Steam client must be running and have an internet connection.

      This is incorrect. Please stop spreading disinformation and/or stating things as facts that you have done no research or testing on.

      Yes, there are some games purchased from Steam that require the client to be running in order to load the game, even in "offline" mode. However I have multiple games in my Steam library that do not require the Steam client to be running. I manually start up the Steam client only when it is needed and leave it off the rest of the time and have no problems with certain games.

    9. Re:The future of console games by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Uhhh...Valve last I checked is a private company so you can't just pull a corporate takeover like that, and as long as Gaben has a fricking pulse he won't let go of HIS domain. I mean for fuck's sake he has followers making religious icons of the man....would YOU give that up?

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    10. Re:The future of console games by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Name them.

      I'm not a big fan of Steam, and if I have a choice I will always prefer a completely DRM-free option, the the grandparent poster was correct. Here is the list of games that you can run without the client loaded. It only took me a second to find this list with Google. (Actually, that's a lie. I used Bing, but that sounds like something that I shouldn't admit here!)

      You still need the client to install them, and if you use the Steam backup/restore facility then you also need the client to be logged in.

    11. Re: The future of console games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, the older I get the more I realise I don't need to constantly update my game library and the more content I am with the good games that I already have.

      It sounds more like your standards are just too low and/or your attention span is too short.

    12. Re: The future of console games by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In some cases yes, in others just the patched exe works. And yes it is a great plan. It's precisely how c64, DOS and other classic games are played today.

      except that your original c64 and ms dos games still work just fine(unless media got damaged). so a pretty shitty analogy. you find an unopened boxed star control II, ultima underworld or whatever... and you can play it just fine, it doesn't need a callback to home like many modern games that require steam for installation.

      as to the promise of being able to download the final library if steam goes under.. HAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAH HAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAH.

      no bankruptcy trustee would ever let that happen really - and more than that would require new agreements from all the publishers anyways.

      the good thing I suppose is that steam is profitable as itself so it doesn't look like it's going away any time soon. but let's say that sony bought it.. .. no fucking way they would let you download the games with drm stripped.

      your plan is as good as this: just pirate the game in the first place. even then, I would recommend pirating the GoG version, since it comes with no drm.

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    13. Re: The future of console games by lgw · · Score: 4, Informative

      But why does any of that matter? The number of games I play today that I'll have the slightest interest in playing more than a couple of years form now is very small indeed. Steam has thus far proven more reliable than my aging media, as well.

      I always look on GOG first, but if there's something good on Steam, I have no hesitation in buying it. If it goes tits-up, GOG will get it eventually. (OTOH, EA's system can die in a fire with EA.)

      This worry about some 1% per year chance of Steam breaking, if sincere, is a sign you need to take your OCD meds. Most people just use that line as a rationalization to pirate the game, of course.

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    14. Re:The future of console games by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most of those titles can be bought on gog.com anyhow.

      I just checked the first batch of games up to the letter B. Only 7 out of 42 games are available on GOG. That is nowhere near the definition of the word most.

      Be that as it may, that wasn't what the original discussion was about. The question was whether you can play any games without launching the Steam client, not whether you can buy DRM-free versions of games on other sites. Changing the argument after being proven wrong is called shifting the goalposts.

    15. Re:The future of console games by Scorch_Mechanic · · Score: 2

      That's not how it's worked out in practice. Games that have been sold on the steam marketplace that are later removed from the marketplace still remain downloadable and playable for people who have purchased them. I personally have several games attached to my steam account that were removed from the marketplace at one point or another, and I could always download and play them. (Examples: Full Spectrum Warrior series, Titan Quest series. That they have since been restored to the steam store is beside the point.)

      Hairyfeet remains correct, however. Valve is a private corporation and will probably remain so for a very, very long time.

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    16. Re:The future of console games by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nope. Bankruptcy specifically voids most of the promissory obligations like these, and if steam were to go under, company that purchased it would likely push it through bankruptcy to get rid of most of the said obligations.

    17. Re: The future of console games by 0111+1110 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well if you mean games like Zork and Wizard and the Princess and Space Invaders and Crush, Crumble, and Chomp, and Archon and Adventure and Super Star Trek, and Castle Wolfenstein then I agree. I don't play those games anymore. But if you mean, say, Baldur's Gate II, Icewind Dale, Arx Fatalis, and Temple of Elemental Evil then I replay these games all the time. At least a full playthrough once per year. It is not pointless at all since truly great games are rare.

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    18. Re:The future of console games by shione · · Score: 2

      That book youre are talking about was sold by somebody on Amazon who never had the rights to it to you in the first place so you never had a legit license to have that book. Thats why Amazon could remove from existing buyers. The same way as if you bought stolen goods from a second hand store, the police can remove it.

      Games that have been take off steam have never been removed from a users library when the license was fine when it was sold.

    19. Re:The future of console games by tepples · · Score: 2

      That book youre are talking about was sold by somebody on Amazon who never had the rights to it to you in the first place

      So what reasonable steps ought a buyer to take to ensure that the seller has the right to sell something?

    20. Re: The future of console games by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

      It largely depends on the game - some are timeless classics that you can go back and play again 15+ years later and still get an immense amount of enjoyment out of them, even disregarding the primitive interfaces of the time. The Fallout series is a perfect example - the game was so good that you can forgive the god awful interface from 1995.

      Other games, like many that are produced today, won't even get a few months worth of play out of me. Call of Duty 18 is just around the corner with a slightly better whatever, and Call of Duty 17 Black Ops 5 will gather dust because it's essentially the same game with a single-player "campaign" that is on a rail from start to finish - there's no decision making, and no consequences for your decision. None.

      The larger gaming industry has sold out depth of content and replay-ability for 20 shekels of online multiplayer deathmatch and overpriced DLC. There are exceptions, of course, but this is where the industry has gone.

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    21. Re:The future of console games by NotDrWho · · Score: 2

      in Canada if you sell a digital good to a customer you must continue and provide access to it if you do not provide a physical media.

      I'm curious how they plan to enforce that when a company goes out of business and is liquidated. Issue a summons to their old HQ building, informing anyone inside that they must keep the servers running? Find all the former employees at their new companies and tell them they have to get the old band back together or else? Send a harshly-worded letter to the people who bought the old servers at auction?

      About the only practical thing they could do would be to demand that the company issue customer refunds in the final days before it goes belly-up. But if the company is bankrupt, it's unlikely customers will see any of that money once the creditors are done with whatever's left.

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  2. Good by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Interesting

    and I hope the CEO lost money, but I bet he made out fine. The guy cheated his engineers out of millions. He paid them in stock options while they built the company from nothing and then folded the paper corporation right before the investment money came in.

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    1. Re:Good by kamapuaa · · Score: 5, Informative

      The original CEO/investor, Steve Perlman, was forced out. The company is surely being sold for a pittance and at great loss for the investors. Even if the idea didn't work out, if the investors/CEOs hadn't made the company, the engineers wouldn't have had jobs in the first place. They can make big money, and in this case they lost a large amount. The engineers just shrugged it off and got another job.

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  3. No, Sony didn't shut it down. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    On Live filed for an alternate bankruptcy protection status and as part of the process sold assets to Sony. Sony didn't come in heavy handed and Buy On Live then shut it down. The headline it inflammatory.

  4. Who cares? by faragon · · Score: 2

    Network latency is going to keep all these remote game solutions as inferior. Even with fiber optic connections becoming widespread is going to be worse than local gaming.

  5. I feel your pain by speedlaw · · Score: 2

    I had two of the excellent Sony HDD 250 DVRs. They are/were better than Tivo until this last generation....well built, and a good first effort. They got data from TV Guide onscreen. Listings, info, and time. TV Guide onscreen was a listing service that would download from an OTA or cable station, interlaced into the signal. It was carried by PBS in the analog era, then CBS when digital transition took place. TV Guide was sold to Rovi (Macrovision). Shortly thereafter, the listing service was shut down. Sony and Rovi were both mute as to those of us who had bought into TV Guide onscreen. I mean, really, who could get screwed by TV GUIDE ???? So much for the old economy and assumptions. We were left high and dry. There was no alternate way to get the listings. Some units with later versions of TV Guide onscreen were internet compatible, but these weren't. Now, I'm not ranting about free listings. These units would not take a time stamp from anything other than a TVGOS source, over the air... So, once the TVGOS service died, your clock did too. No, there was no "clock set" in the menu. Whose idea or requirement this was should be shot. Twice. Some convoluted work arounds were devised, but the simple fact is that you had a random clock when you plugged it in. For the normal person, you just bricked it. No TVGOS signal = no clock = no programming. Thanks Sony.

    1. Re:I feel your pain by rahvin112 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sony has always been evil. I'm always surprised when people complain about some evil sony action as if they are totally surprised by it. Don't be surprised. I stopped buying sony products before 1992 (that's about the time they bent me over and had their way with me) because they are evil and will always be evil. These stories about Sony have been around a LONG time, long before your DVR. You should have known better.

  6. Nice try by rsilvergun · · Score: 2, Informative

    The engineers wouldn't have jobs? Do you not have the slightest clue how this works? These were top of their field guys with tonnes of job offers who took _less_ pay in exchange for stock options in a company they believed in. They literally invested their lives in the company in place of their dollars. The through some legal slight of hand it was stolen out from under them. AOL did the same thing when they merged with Time Warner. When you have tens of thousands of dollars taken from you you don't "Just shake it off".

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    1. Re:Nice try by lgw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When you have tens of thousands of dollars taken from you you don't "Just shake it off".

      I did, when I did the startup thing. Well, there was some drinking involved. But that's the normal, expected outcome. for a startup. Anyone with half a brain knows this. You hope for that payoff, but it's long odds. This is why most startups these days pay pretty close to what the big guys pay, assuming they really are hiring equivalent talent.

      This was not like Skype, where it was actually successful and the engineers got screwed anyway - that's quite rare. When the startup fails, you get a handshake. That's the game. And shipping a fine product is no guarantee at all it won't fail.

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    2. Re:Nice try by greg1104 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This was not like Skype, where it was actually successful and the engineers got screwed anyway - that's quite rare.

      That a startup succeeds is quite rare. Just considering those cases though, I don't think ones where the employees also get screwed are rare at all. The groundwork for that is usually in place from day 1, with how shares in the company are split into classes.

      For me it's been 100%: all three of the successful startups I've been involved with, all purchased by another company, did that transaction in a way that valued the common stock in employee options I owned at nothing. All the books were cooked until the company founders and, more importantly, the funding investors were paid all of the proceeds. And just to rub some extra salt in the wound there, the second also removed my name from the patent they were granted near the end of the process, to grease concerns that I'd expect more from the sale than nothing and could cause trouble with its licensing. (I signed those rights away in my employee contract, and all I really wanted was the little patent plaque)

      The third laid me off, forced me to exercise my options to keep them, then valued the common stock at zero during the sale. That one's bonus fuck used some going out of business loopholes to cancel my COBRA policy with zero advance notice the week after the sale, as if they'd gone bankrupt and couldn't afford to administer the policy anymore. The company was sold for millions to Cisco; the engineers who built its technology lost their health insurance.

      I've come to see these anecdotes as a pattern by design. Startups are not structured to make the employees happy if the company succeeds. They're setup so the majority share holder(s) get what they want. And there's a lot of rich assholes who will screw over anyone they can in that chain.

    3. Re:Nice try by Rakishi · · Score: 2

      None of those cases indicate the startup in question was actually successful. Being sold for 10 million when you owe investors 20 million isn't success. Presumably the common stock was worth nothing because the sale was basically a liquidation. The investors signed off on it in exchange for getting whatever money did come in but they didn't make any money on the deal since the worth of the company minus investments was in fact negative.

      Just because a startup doesn't go bankrupt doesn't mean it was successful.

  7. Remember Connectix? by Zobeid · · Score: 2

    This reminds me so much of when Sony bought Connectix and killed the Virtual Game Station.

    Re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

    We didn't have a lot of games on the Mac in those days, so the CVGS filled a real need. I hated Sony so much for that. >.

    Sony: serial killer of the game industry?

  8. So they are being true to themselves by ruir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sony and pretty much Microsoft alike have a predatory, disruptive model of work. Also it is not their best interest to provide a continuity of services, and change things every so often, to create artificial needs for new products. They also do not work for the best interests of the industry or for their customers, but only for their goals. They often also do shadow or questionable moves via proxy firms in order to not tarnish more their reputation. They are not deceiving anyone. Any time they do something like this, they are only being true to their core models. You are just naive and dumb if you do business with them.

  9. Re:What about my game purchases? by ledow · · Score: 2

    Nope.

    You licensed use of several games for a maximum period of three years (go read what "lifetime" access was for a game you purchased).

    Probably the most you'd ever get back would be a part of the purchase price proportional to the time you've had them (i.e. if you had access to the games for a year maybe you'd get a 2/3rds refund - after you brought in the lawyers).

    One of the reasons that systems like OnLive weren't a good idea for consumers.

    I tried OnLive because they gave a "full" game at the time without paying a penny. Mainly to see whether it was worth buying properly. When I read the terms and conditions of the "full" game, I realised I'd have to buy it somewhere else anyway as the game could disappear in a few years and I'd have no recourse, so instead I used OnLive purely as a demo and actually bought the game elsewhere.

  10. Re:I don't rent games by ledow · · Score: 2

    At least if Steam does go down, hacks exist to run the Steam games outside of Steam. And you can download the compressed files of Steam games at any time, as a Steam owner, and use the backup facility.

    With OnLive, you don't even have access to your own configuration or saved games, except through their systems.

  11. Re:Not 100% true by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    If sdomebody buy valve they buy ther liabilities with them. That means current contract.

    Valve has no contractual obligations to you whatsoever. The EULA limits their obligations, it does not institute them. And one of the rights they will surely have retained is the right to close their doors without notice.

    Somebody could not simply shut steam down by buying it.

    Who told you that? I want to make sure I never get any legal advice from them, because they are very stupid.

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  12. Re:New deal ?! by parenthephobia · · Score: 2

    They couldn't get sued by gamers for breaching a contract with game producers!

    I don't believe Valve have entered into any contract with me to let me download my game library without DRM in any particular situation.

    That they will not legally bind themselves to their promise to me suggests to me that they don't actually have any binding agreements with the game producers that would give them this authority.

    It's hardly surprising. Do you really imagine EA or Ubisoft (or any other major publisher-developer) would permit Steam to do this with their games?

  13. Re:100% DRM. Always Was. by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

    my $7 pint of IPA will make me drunk enough so that I don't care about screan responce time or filewall rulls.

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