US Dept. of Education Teams With Microsoft-Led Teach.org On Teacher Diversity

theodp writes: Citing a new study that suggests academic achievement can benefit when children are taught by a teacher of their own race, the NY Times asks, Where Are the Teachers of Color? Towards that end, the Times reports that "Teach.org, a partnership between the Department of Education and several companies, teachers unions and other groups, is specifically targeting racial minorities for recruitment." Teach.org describes itself as a "public-private partnership led by Microsoft, State Farm and the U.S. Department of Education." To the consternation of some, the U.S. Dept. of Education delegated teacher recruitment to Microsoft in 2011. With its 2.2% African American/Black and 3.9% Latino/Hispanic tech workforce, who better to increase diversity than Microsoft, right?

Comments

Teach Dot Org

[smittyoneeach]

Teach Dot Org
Behold the Borg
Keep mind & face clean
Or devoured by the warg
Burma Shave

Minorities

[Anonymous Coward]

in teaching or in the broad population? One might as well ask where are the white male school teachers, while we're at it.

Re:Minorities

[Anonymous Coward]

in teaching or in the broad population? One might as well ask where are the white male school teachers, while we're at it.

I wouldn't worry about this study - it will never fly past the SJW brigade because well-off white women will be negatively impacted by any attempt to balance the numbers with regard to race. See all those /. articles once per week about the tough times women have? Notice that all the activists are rich white women? Notice that all the poster children are rich white women?

It's too sad that efforts to better the conditions of downtrodden minorities will ultimately be thwarted by the most well-off, healthy, safest and longest-lived demographic ever in human history - white women.

Re:Minorities

[Anonymous Coward]

Too many of those white males constantly rape children. Just look at Penn State in PA. Their kind even protects rapists in order to allow them to rape again and again. That is the way of their kind. That is why most school systems have decided correctly to fire those rapists. Too bad we can't fire all of them from congress.

Re:Minorities

[BigT]

In my high school the majority of the white male teachers were coaches first, and teachers second. No-one cared how well they taught as long as the football/basketball/volleyball/wresting team was winning.

If you counted other minorities...

[Anonymous Coward]

MSFT has about 60% Indians, so it is very diverse... In all seriousness they bend over backwards to find candidates and I have seen hiring managers pressured heavily to pick the diversity hire even if not a good fit. HR pushing to hire 'minorities' and Indian middle management pushing to increase the Indian mafia. Fun times...

Re:If you counted other minorities...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm very happy that apartheid is coming back.
Now I will be able to go to school with other minority students and never have to listen to unintelligible Indian accents anymore.

Re:If you counted other minorities...

[Anonymous Coward]

A black man that hates Indians now runs Microsoft. Expect that to come to an end. My two roommates have both worked there for over twenty years, and both are optimistic that Microsoft may one day again promote for competency rather than sex and race quotas.

Re:If you counted other minorities...

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess all those Indian professors at my university don't count as "colored" people either by this study's definitions.

own race/gender/etc.

[turkeydance]

maybe someone will figure out that students can teach themselves.

Re:own race/gender/etc.

[Jason Levine]

Montessori schools do that. They let the students decide what they want to learn and at what pace. Personally, I don't buy this educational philosophy. I think kids can often be very short-sighted and might not try to learn an essential subject or might shy away from a subject as "boring/hard" when they would really love it if forced to study it for a bit. K-12 should be about 1) getting a child's educational foundation in place and 2) giving the child exposure to a wide variety of topics so they can decide which ones they like if/when they go to college.

Atlanta school system

[Anonymous Coward]

I rest my case.

TooManyLibtardCauses

[Anonymous Coward]

.org

Discrimination

[Anonymous Coward]

Skin colour should never matter when hiring people. Never.

Re:Discrimination

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, except for silver people. Certainly we can all agree you should never hire a purple person. We would have to change all our anti-racism speeches and laws to include them for one thing. Besides, it still pretty hard to adjust the chroma on television and photos, (unless your using black and white film), and if you're used to seeing things in black and white, you're kind of back where you started!
Yup, back in the day, before color TV, we had the rules all set up and things were working just fine. Sure, white people had an unfair advantage at many things, and it wasn't perfect, but we had thos rich bastards paying 50% in taxes. So that made up for a lot of goofy stuff they would do. I think the real problem is when we kicked the black man off the farm and displaced him with Mexican labor.

Re:Discrimination

[Mr D from 63]

With its 2.2% African American/Black and 3.9% Latino/Hispanic tech workforce, who better to increase diversity than Microsoft, right?

A cheap shot from the submitter, but in reality they may actually be the best to lead this charge. They have been dealing with the challenge of trying to figure out how to increase qualified applicant diversity. There is not easy solution but they understand the challenge better than most, so yes, they just might be the one's to lead this.

Re:Discrimination

[Anonymous Coward]

So, you're giving Microsoft an A for effort, and that's good enough for you. They're the go to guys since they've been trying really hard, right? No, it wasn't a cheap shot, it was spot on.

Re:Discrimination

[Anonymous Coward]

Except when it's a white being rejected to make up a quota of blacks. Same with males, and increasing the female quota.

Re:Discrimination

[Anonymous Coward]

That is exactly the problem I am addressing. The diversity people endorse discrimination as a solution for an imaginary problem.

Re:Discrimination

[AmiMoJo]

There are really obvious exceptions that rule. Need an actor to play a historical figure who was black?

Of course, that isn't what we are talking about here. The best candidate still gets the job, the idea is just to encourage more black people to apply in the first place. Since being a teacher tends to require certain teaching qualifications, the first step is to get more qualified people.

Re:Discrimination

[kamapuaa]

Right, and that's exactly the point. White people are more likely to hire other white people, it's an inherent bias. Even if they are not the most qualified for the job, even when studies show that a minority candidate would be a better choice (as with this study). A certain amount of programs encouraging the hiring of minorities is a necessary step towards counter-acting this bias.

Re:Discrimination

[ranton]

There are really obvious exceptions that rule. Need an actor to play a historical figure who was black?

Looks like someone has never seen Tropical Thunder.

Re:Discrimination

[wisnoskij]

So acting auditions should be done blind with a voice modulator? The next Blade will be played by a 12 year old Asian girl in blackface?

ok.. so lets

[Anonymous Coward]

re-introduce segregation in schools (as if there wasn't still enough of it already) and turn back the clock 50 years.

Re:ok.. so lets

[Anonymous Coward]

what's funny is no one wanted integration, not even the blacks. it was the white moronic SJWs pushing it and then it flopped right front of their dumb angry faces. i forget which has a good article on it. vice, verge or one of their clones.

Re:ok.. so lets

[Half-pint HAL]

In Scotland, segregation of the children of Scottish and immigrant communities (Irish, Italian, Polish) was done for a combination of right and wrong reasons. Partly it was the established elite not wanting their kids mixing with the funny foreigners, but it also did protect the poor immigrants from inherited xenophobia in the local families. The surface detail of the segregation was the mainstream (effectively protestant) schools and the catholic schools. Over the generations, the need for this system has burnt itself out. The mainstream schools have mostly become genuinely non-denominational, and most of the children of both sides have left their religions. Which country handled segregation better, Scotland or the US? I do not know. But I don't believe now is a time for increasing segregation. But that's not the point of diversity in education. The point is that all kids need to see that education is relevant to them. A poor kid from a minority slum the majority of whose adult role models are all of the same minority and are either unemployed or criminal is not going to be swayed by a clean-cut WASP sitting in front of them and telling them that they can be whatever they want.

That 'study' is full of shit !

[Anonymous Coward]

My parents are from the Indian sub-continent, and I was born in America

Yes, technically I am qualified to be a 'minority' in America, but as a Minority I do not necessary benefit more from being taught by 'minority teachers'

All I need is a teacher who is qualified, who is enthusiastic, who wants to share whatever knowledge he or she has with me, who knows how to communicate clearly and who is cheerful --- As for the race of that teacher, I do not care

That so-called 'study' is thus shipload of turd

How come my government is listening to those turd suckers in the first place?

Political correctness has no place in education !!

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[NoNonAlphaCharsHere]

Can you explain how third-generation Mexican-Americans speak English with a Spanish accent? Some cultures are more clannish than others, and outsiders will always BE outsiders.

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[Anonymous Coward]

Equality...diversity..ever wondered how liberals can ask for both of these at the same time???

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[NoNonAlphaCharsHere]

I was not arguing for teacher diversity* from a perspective of political correctness, I'm simply saying that we should not reject out-of-hand the notion that some groups learn better/more effectively from a member of their own race*.

* Whatever that may mean.

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[Anonymous Coward]

Your opinion on this subject is equally irrelevant as the opinion of people 18 when MADD or [insert some other lobbyist organization here] starts shrieking "won't somebody think of the children".

This is about buying influence. Actual benefit to minorities is moot. The study was contrived for the purpose of greasing this form of pandering. Now the Dept. of Education can do what they wanted to do and the influence brokers can get what they want: power to make people jump when they say "jump" using race-baiting tactics to manufacture an environment for their economic rent-seeking behavior.

It's nothing more than a form of political-correctness racketeering and just like a police department will happily pay bitcoins to ransomware or a local government will happily funnel "tomorrow-money" via pension commitments and rotating fire-chief games, it's easy for public sector workers to make their lives easy in the short-run by acquiescing to the extortioner's demands when they are in-charge of "other-people's-money" and the voters are dumb enough to gobble up the pandering like hungry hungry hippos.

Now that I've expressed my opinion in-practice(an equally irrelevant one due to the fact that these games aren't intended for populations educated &/or intelligent enough to see through them), I wanted to weigh in on two other implications:

A) normally I would consider your opinion to be anecdotal vs. scientific method and therefore largely unimportant as a data point however since I agree with you, I'm leaning towards confirmation bias and attacking the studies merits instead(frankly, I am not surprised by the results that racial segregation DOES lead to more positive education outcomes, but a one-dimensional analysis fails at application of holistic impacts/considerations such as achieving an integrated &/or diverse society).

B) This study highlights the importance of an education in statistics by the general public as well as the danger of appeals to authority, lack of critical thinking, and anti-intellectualism.

C) I'm realizing something that many conservatives and the uneducated seem to have trouble eloquently communicating which is the cheapening of the "scientist says WHAT!?" brand of fact-politicking where ambitious whores of intellectuals will abuse the academic publishing process to compete for increasingly sparse funds(based on MBA-land "metrics" like influence scores). The academic yellow journalism industry is turning in to a product available to the highest bidder with no integrity. The product of this is canon-fodder for anyone who has the money to sway the tide of public sentiment.

Overall, I'm left drifting in a universe free of the black and white clarity of scientific credibility available to justify whatever bias I wish to confirm. I'm now forced to cope with the idea of no objective truths. A world where people like Steven Colbert, Jesse Jackson, and Rupert Murdoch can conjure reality with words and money and influence. A world where British Petroleum, Chevron, General Electric, and Boeing can bend the very fabric of reality to justify foreign intervention and the immunodefense of society(the ETHICAL educated public) is overwhelmed by the volume of the loudspeakers and the quantity of the propaganda.

The corrupting influence of money can liquidate credibility, and the consolidation of media ownership has increased the price efficiency of the process to where truth-bending and spin can now be had with economies of scale:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Powell_%28lobbyist%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
http://www.freepress.net/press-release/2011/7/7/court-rejects-fcc-attempt-weaken-media-ownership-rules

The subtle erosion continues over time and you can tally victories at the same time as losses to infer the overall trend's direction.

The disturbing aspect is that these perversions of science seem to universally favor the interests of people who want to make the world a worse place. There just doesn't seem to be very much profit in making it better.

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[Sardu821]

The government is listening because they want an "easy" answer to a problem. Example from my work: Individual "A" has clear step by step procedures to complete task "X" Individual "A" did not complete task "X" satisfactorily. Reality: Individual was at fault, he did not take the time to fully read and understand the instructions. Correction: Individual was disciplined and counseled to fully read and understand the instruction. Government response: How can we ensure this will never ever happen again? Reality: We can't
If all you feel you need is a teacher that is qualified then you are not in the LCD that this study is going after. We, as humans, are the unknown factor in all these things...

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[Anonymous Coward]

You fail at asking the "5x why's".

Disciplinarianism is a mentality fully embraced by the inept because negative re-enforcement can be grasped easily even by simple minds and it off-puts the onerous burden of making the system "work"(IE. Defining the requirements) to the dis-empowered people(who are lower on the food-chain) because shit tends to roll down-hill.

Why did Individual "A" not fully read and understand the instructions? Reading and understanding are much more pleasant than working...
What external time constraints were being placed to make Individual "A" in a hurry? Was he paid per completed project but not responsible for inspecting and signing off on the quality of each task completed? Was he responsible for signing off but that inspection process is percieved to be a cost-center by management due to it's quality completion not being a consideration of that manager's evaluation metrics?

Was the employee working two jobs because the company refused to give him more than 29 hours a week?
Was the employee playing catch-up due to a last-minute change-order by a manager who was too busy on Facebook to adequately plan the process execution?
Are change orders common practice encouraging employees to wait until the last second to start work?
Did management create artificial time constraints based on some desire to squeeze the perception of extra productivity out of employees?

Is the company losing money so they are squeezing employees to increase the attrition rate so they don't have to pay unemployment?
Was the manager unhappy with that employee so they set them up to fail by sitting on a work order until the employee didn't have time to do it correctly?

Did the manager tell the employee they couldn't leave work to see their child's soccer game until process Y had been completed?
Was the employee paid per completed task but not individually responsible for quality inspection?
Are inaccurate documentation of processes common at this workplace and divergences from standard operating procedures encouraged except when the outcome goes poorly leaving a fall guy?

As a rule, unless an employee is abusing depressants: it is almost universally the case that problems in the workplace are created by the lack of planning and foresight by people higher up the food chain. They are either cutting corners by hiring people who are not qualified to do the work(cost-cutting on salary), cutting corners on documentation quality, cutting corners on training, cutting corners on compliance with/definition of standard operating procedures, cutting corners on healthcare/benefits overhead via excessive overtime, etc. etc. etc.

Some employees are more adept as dealing with the crap, but when I hear low-brows blame shifting process problems on employees my mind instantly goes to the blind leading the blind and William Deming.

Employee quality can be approximated as a normal or fat tail distribution depending on the metric. If your processes can't tolerate more than 1 or 2 standard deviation below mean values then you are making a decision to under-allocate capital investment or are operating at a very low Capability Maturity Model level. Human Resources are a fungible commodity and if your processes are dependent on luck of the draw that your hiring manager is REALLY REALLY GOOD at fortune telling: Disciplinarianism is an open confession of ineptitude.

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/14/bring_back_the_40_hour_work_week/

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[Megol]

What is there to explain? Their native language is Spanish, just as some other US groups have French or other languages as their native language.

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[Runaway1956]

They don't. You're making it up. First generation has a strong Mexican accent. Second generation has an accent. Third generation speaks better English than most of us tenth and twentieth generation Americans. You pulled that out of your arse, didn't you?

What's more, because I work with so many Mexicans, I'm actually beginning to understand the first generation accents, and accept them as "normal".

Maybe you should work with more Mexicans, and learn how they assimilate.

I'll grant that there ARE SOME militant assholes among the Mexican community who have no intention of ever being assimilated. They don't want citizenship, they don't want nothing from the US. Those people only want to take back those states that the US took from Mexico. But - it ain't happening. Their grand children will eventually become assimilated.

Not that the US will remain the same - Mexicans are changing the US, right now, while we discuss Mexicans in America. Prepare to be assimilated, yourself. My youngest son, for instance, is doing some mutual assimilating with a beautiful young Mexican lady. I'm waiting for a perfectly assimilated little half Mexican grand baby that I can make fun of.

And, yes, Grandpa gets to make fun of the grandkids, no matter what. I don't give a damn HOW sensitive anyone else might be, grandpa and the grand kids do whatever the hell they want to do.

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[ShanghaiBill]

Can you explain how third-generation Mexican-Americans speak English with a Spanish accent?

No, because they don't.

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[ShanghaiBill]

I'm simply saying that we should not reject out-of-hand the notion that some groups learn better/more effectively from a member of their own race

Especially since TFA cites data that show it is true. Gender also matters. Boys learn better from male teachers. If a boy squirms in his seat, and has problems sitting still, a female teacher is four times more likely to recommend he be tested for ADHD. A male teacher is more likely to make him run laps around the playground.

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[AmiMoJo]

All I need is a teacher who is qualified, who is enthusiastic, who wants to share whatever knowledge he or she has with me, who knows how to communicate clearly and who is cheerful --- As for the race of that teacher, I do not care

That's good for you at higher levels, but for younger kids school is an important part of their upbringing and character development. Currently we have a huge problem in the UK with a lack of male primary school (4-7 year olds) teachers, resulting in a lack of male role models at the place kids spend half their waking lives.

Young black children need black role models. It shows them that black adults integrate, rather than being a separate home/school thing. It shows them that the negative images they see on TV are not the only way black adults are. You have to understand a little bit about child psychology to see why it is important, but trust me it is.

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[cmdr_klarg]

Political correctness has no place in education !!

It has no place in ANYWHERE. Political Correctness should be put to the rack, drawn and quartered, burned at the stake, and beheaded.

Re:That 'study' is full of shit !

[Anonymous Coward]

"Political correctness has no place in education !!"

Agreed.

Despite plain ol' common sense, common core and its affiliated spawn (teach dot org, et al) will be dumbing down the upcoming generation. Sad but inevitable.

And the guy who had all the advantages of a non-PC education and did very well in business, is the same guy who's spending millions for the common core adoption in schools across the US... Mr. Gates.

Apartheid Education

[rtb61]

Seriously sounds like they are drifting towards an apartheid education system. That students tend to do better in the US with teachers of the same race (what ever the fuck that is meant to really mean, like human teachers or dog teachers or bird teachers or dolphin teachers), is a solid indication or problems of racism in the society at large and how it is brought into the education system. Race - biological http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Rac... was only extended into arbitrary human http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Rac... classification purely as a result of rampant prejudice and a specific desire to exclude people from competitive access in capitalist societies. Those statistics are not a measure of better teaching that are a measure of a fractured and failing society, as people within that society seek to avoid failure and drowning in poverty by pushing others down via what ever distinctions they can craft based upon, appearance, language, religion and culture. Those results should be a real wakeup moment of a serious problem.

Re:Apartheid Education

[Anonymous Coward]

The only difference is the color of our skin.
All our children are completely identical unique little snowflakes?
Black men can't jump and white men can't swim.

You seriously believe that the genes that determine skin color have absolutely no effect on other parts of a human?

The problem isn't differences in race, it's PC people who believe that mentioning race differences can only ever be used to make oneself feel better about ones own race. Takes one to know one, I guess.

Re:Apartheid Education

[Anonymous Coward]

You gotta stop trying to understand liberal logic bro, you will only go insane and end up killing yourself - or become another mindless SJW. We don't want the latter for you.

Re:Apartheid Education

[Anonymous Coward]

Well said! Those links have been bookmarked for future use. Thanks.

Re:Apartheid Education

[stdarg]

Seriously sounds like they are drifting towards an apartheid education system.

Aside from the negative connotations, there's nothing specifically wrong with that. We do have optionally segregated-by-gender schools and they seem to work out pretty well. As long as the segregation isn't mandated by the state, what's the problem?

Race - biological [...] was only extended into arbitrary human [...] classification purely as a result of rampant prejudice and a specific desire to exclude people from competitive access in capitalist societies

Yeah right, race consciousness never existed in non-capitalist economies. I recall reading about an isolated tribe whose name for themselves basically meant "human" and whose name for other people who didn't look like them (like white anthropologists) meant "non-human."

Re:Apartheid Education

[Half-pint HAL]

The existence of outliers does little to prove the general case. In elite sports, where only one out of 7 billion people can get the gold, deals with exceptions. We need to deal with the rule.

Re:Apartheid Education

[Half-pint HAL]

Yeah right, race consciousness never existed in non-capitalist economies. I recall reading about an isolated tribe whose name for themselves basically meant "human" and whose name for other people who didn't look like them (like white anthropologists) meant "non-human."

This is quite a common pattern. But in these societies, the number of "humans" is limited by Dunbar's number. Renaissance racism expands the pool of identified "humans" into the millions, and post-Renaissance racism pushes into the thousands of millions and billions, and it draws the boundary in an arbitrary way. Some Indo-Europeans are dismissed as "not white", and some non-Indo-Europeans are allowed into the privileged club because of a lighter pigmentation than others. Modern racism isn't the same as natural pack mentality.

Re:Apartheid Education

[AmiMoJo]

It's not racism, it's just the way children are. Think about it, when you were a geeky kid did you identify more with geeky adults, characters in science fiction and the like, or with football players and "jocks"? It's not race, it's culture and mindset. As a kid you probably spent more time thinking about Star Trek and less about football tactics, so you identified more with other people who had a similar mindset.

Well, okay, at a very young age things like gender and race do matter to some extent. As we grow up and understand other people better we grow out of that, or at least most of us do. That's why many people find racism so abhorrent - it's just dumb. It shows an incredible lack of understanding of other human beings.

The real racism is in the media. Black people are often portrayed in a negative light. There are exceptions of course, but it's like how there are exceptions to super skinny models but still 95% of them are heavily photoshopped and unrealistically thin. I don't live in the US so I can't quantify just how bad it is, but I hear it isn't good. Teachers being positive role models are one way to counter that.

Re:Apartheid Education

[Anonymous Coward]

The real racism is in the media. Black people are often portrayed in a negative light. .

Because they actually do more crime than whites. Which happens because blacks have more poverty than whites. The poor is more motivated for crimes like theft, those who have more to loose are more motivated to obey the law.

I guess the rich in either racial group is equally law-abiding, and the poor in either group equally criminal. But then, more poor means more crime also.

Bring back segregated schools . . . ?!?!

[PolygamousRanchKid]

So segregated schools would be the obvious (and wrong) answer? Black students go to a school with black teachers, and white kids go to a school with white teachers ?!?!?!

Ah, what ever happened to folks who thought like this:

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

I guess Martin Luther King Jr. wasn't dreaming . . . give the current state of race relations in the US . . . he was fantasizing.

Re:Bring back segregated schools . . . ?!?!

[rastos1]

Ah, what ever happened to folks who thought like this:

They ... claimed copyright?

Re:Bring back segregated schools . . . ?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Segregating people by race increases racial tension and violence. Racial tension and violence is how these people make their living. Of course they're going to want to do what they can to increase it.

Re:Bring back segregated schools . . . ?!?!

[misexistentialist]

No, having the white kids' achievement lowered by black teachers also improves "equality".

Re:Bring back segregated schools . . . ?!?!

[AmiMoJo]

How did you get from "it would help to have a more diverse teaching staff" to "separate blacks and whites"? The logic doesn't follow at all. If anything it's the opposite, since all the possible explanations as to why the proportion of black teachers is not the same as the proportion of the general population that is black are social ones.

Race but not Gender?

[Anonymous Coward]

So they are worried about race and not Gender. While boys are failing school more now than ever. They too can benefit from a system that caters to them as well. Where have all the male teachers gone. They have gone else where out of fear of being on a sex registry. And this with a female teacher being the face of high school and middle school sex scandal for years now.

Re:Race but not Gender?

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with boys failing school has nothing to do with male teaching males, but the curriculum being changed to favour girls. Give more objective evaluation tests as opposed to more subjective assignments and projects and boys will be back in the game.

Re:Race but not Gender?

[Anonymous Coward]

With no male teachers to do more hand on labs and the like, imagine my surprise that the curriculum has been changed.

Not to mention in male prisons, they justify having women around as a normalizing effect. Yet in women's prisons, males are also taboo for possible sexual impropriety, nevermind the fact female guards are as likely to engage in sexual misconduct (although curiously absent from prosecution).

Re:Race but not Gender?

[Anonymous Coward]

We will see males get kicked, err escorted, out of corporations. Men will end up fighting wars, firefighting, law enforcement, and construction. Women will take their rightful place as the bosses and the men will simply be used for procreation and cannon fodder.

For those that believe that the world is stacked against women, open your eyes and take a good long look at all the HR policies, societal rules, and corporate programs. The pendulum has swung over the past 50 years from favoring men to favoring women. At this point it is out of control. There are so many examples.

Recently a friend of mine worked on a youth program where kids were encouraged to program and work with robotics. He was successful. The youth program worked with young men and women, but needed more corporate support. When he started to bring it up the chain an executive pushed back and stated that the program should be changed to only support young women. He is now considering scrapping the program as we have entered the age where equal rights considered to be bad.

Re:Race but not Gender?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a strange moral hazard to have half the electorate able to vote the other half to die in wars. As women soldiers aren't as capable as males, I'm not certain how you address that.

Re:Race but not Gender?

[moeinvt]

White boys are failing because the curriculum is teaching everyone else self esteem while white boys are taught that they are nothing but evil oppressors. Everyone else has a "pride" month, while whites get a "shame" century. White people, especially boys, are taught that they must go through life in constant state of collective guilt about the crimes of their ancestors, but must NEVER exhibit collective pride in the achievements of their ancestors(that's racism!). It's a deliberate effort to dumb them down and impair their learning ability and achievement to achieve "equality".
It was bad and getting worse when I went to school, I can only imagine how horrible it must be now. I can't help but think that the public school curriculum and it's "shame on white people" and collective guilt BS does long term psychological damage.

Re:Race but not Gender?

[Half-pint HAL]

Women don't tend to be as keen on wars as men, though....

Re:Race but not Gender?

[Half-pint HAL]

but must NEVER exhibit collective pride in the achievements of their ancestors(that's racism!). It's a deliberate effort to dumb them down and impair their learning ability and achievement to achieve "equality".

So you're saying that schools never celebrate the founding fathers, or Abe Lincoln, or the winning of various wars by white-led armies?

As long as Thanksgiving is celebrated (a feast to mark the massacre of a bunch of native Americans), your whining sounds like bullshit.

Re:Race but not Gender?

[AmiMoJo]

It is possible to care about and address more than one issue at a time. The solution for one issue may not solve other issues, so sometimes they can't all be fixed collectively with a single action.

Come on Slashdot, this is a pretty basic logical fallacy. It's not "interesting", "insightful" or "underrated", it's just absurd.

Re:Race but not Gender?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sparta was run by women.

Re:Race but not Gender?

[CannonballHead]

a feast to mark the massacre of a bunch of native Americans

Er, citation needed.

Re:Race but not Gender?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not xer job to educate you, shitlord!

Re:Race but not Gender?

[Half-pint HAL]

a feast to mark the massacre of a bunch of native Americans

Er, citation needed.

Er, OK.

Millions here, Millions there

[Anonymous Coward]

They still can't fix Windows UI

You are so right !

[Taco Cowboy]

If I can mod you up 1000 times, I will !

I came from China. Back in China all my teachers are Chinese - as China is full of Chinese naturally my teachers (good and bad) are Chinese

But when I landed on US of A none of my teachers / lecturers / professors (good and bad) happened to be ethnic Chinese

Did I ever fail to learn just because my teacher / lecturer / professor happened to be not of the same ethnic / racial background as me? Nope !

In fact, I find it utterly ridiculously to claim that students learn better with teachers of the same racial background, and you are so right --- Political Correctness has no place in Education!!

Re:You are so right !

[Half-pint HAL]

I came from China. Back in China all my teachers are Chinese - as China is full of Chinese naturally my teachers (good and bad) are Chinese

But when I landed on US of A none of my teachers / lecturers / professors (good and bad) happened to be ethnic Chinese

Feeling like a foreigner in a foreign country is not a problem. Feeling like a foreigner in your own country is a problem. It alienates and results in low achievement.

Re:You are so right !

[Runaway1956]

Taco Cowboy is CHINESE?!?!?!?! You had me buffaloed, man. I figured you for twelfth generation mixed Mexican and redneck, from deep in the heart of Texas.

Re:You are so right !

[pr0fessor]

Educators that are able to connect with their students and inspire them are more successful, regardless of race or ethnicity. Using race or ethnicity as a crutch to teach with is a sign of a poor educator.

Re:You are so right !

[ShanghaiBill]

Educators that are able to connect with their students and inspire them are more successful, regardless of race or ethnicity.

That is a nice politically correct opinion that you have. Can you cite any data to back up your assertion? TFA has data that says you are wrong.

Re: You are so right !

[Anonymous Coward]

Or it results in you working harder to compensate. Life is full of obstacles. If you just sit down and cry anytime you come up against a barrier then you deserve the failure. There are plenty of people that overcome their feelings and make something of themselves despite them.

Encouraging people to give up when they run into a little hardship is not the way

Re:You are so right !

[pr0fessor]

TFA has data that says you are wrong.

No the data still agrees with my conclusion, just not my opinion that it makes you a poor educator if you can't connect with your students regardless.

Re: You are so right !

[Half-pint HAL]

Kids are kids. Kids cry a lot. If any kid that cried was instantly labeled a failure, we would have no successful people at all.

Re:You are so right !

[Cinnamon Beige]

Shared race and/or ethnicity (depending on how much you are for correct terminology) makes it easier for a teacher to successful connect to their students--odds are, this would be a specific case of the well-studied & robust observation that people connect more easily and faster to those that they perceive as belonging to the same group.

This is used in social engineering quite successfully regularly. If you haven't noticed it yet...well, pay attention to the salescritters' approaches more. Social engineering, after all, is applied social psychology...

Firing the BS Flare

[Sardu821]

I'm a native English speaker, my wife and step-children are asian, in our house we code-switch between a few languages (English, Tagalog, and Cebuano) throughout the day. When my kids aren't in school I supplement their education their education using websites like KhanAcademy. My son speaks Cebuano, very little English or Tagalog, my older daughter is fluent in Tagalog and knows some English, my youngest speaks Tagalog and is doing well with English. While we go through the various courses on these websites I provide guidance in each of their languages, this is where we both learn more of each others languages (When I'm feeling silly I'll throw in some Gaelic). First, I'll say math is effin awesome for crossing the spoken language barrier (I hated it when I was a kid). My point is that language or race is the problem, its engagement. While schools are very much there to teach, parents (in whatever form) are the primary educators. That is the bigger problem IMO. How to motivate parents to take an active role in motivating their children?

Re:Firing the BS Flare

[Anonymous Coward]

It's part of the black elephant in the room that no one is allowed to talk about...

Strange...

[Anonymous Coward]

The logic here doesn't make sense. White is still the largest percentage of students in the US. If students truly benefit most from learning from the same race, then logically you could benefit the highest percentage of students by having only white teachers.

Or maybe we could just, y'know, hire the teachers who are the best at teaching instead of weighting them by race. Crazy, I know.

Re:Strange...

[stdarg]

then logically you could benefit the highest percentage of students by having only white teachers

That would only be true if students were proportionally represented in every classroom, but they're not.

Re:Strange...

[Half-pint HAL]

The problem is a little bit more complex, because a non-white kid in a room full of white kids with a white teacher might feel alienated. A classroom full of white kids wouldn't feel alienated by a single teacher from a minority.

Cherry-picked correlations

[bradley13]

Yet another call for racial discrimination, based on nothing much. I skimmed the paper, and looked particularly at the results sections. The authors cherry-pick the positive correlations, and ignore the negative ones.

It happens that they have a weak positive correlation for black students taught by black teachers, but the correlation for hispanics is universally negative and for asians the correlation is negative everywhere except math. Somehow, the authors forgot to mention the negative correlations in their abstract, and TFA certainly doesn't pick up on them.

Overall, the number of positive and negative correlations is very nearly equal, which leads to the suspicion that the paper represents a careful analysis of random noise.

Re:Cherry-picked correlations

[avandesande]

Most of the junk science in the news is done this way- just shuffle around control variables until you get the result you want.

Re:Cherry-picked correlations

[Ol Olsoc]

Overall, the number of positive and negative correlations is very nearly equal, which leads to the suspicion that the paper represents a careful analysis of random noise.

I'm going to send you a bill for cleaning the coffee I spit all over my laptop when I read that.

Re:Cherry-picked correlations

[itzly]

Also called: torture the data until it confesses.

Re:Cherry-picked correlations

[stdarg]

Actually that fits in well with the prevailing black/white dichotomy in most race discussions. If Hispanics and Asians do well with teachers of different races, then we can continue to ignore them.

Love this

[janford7]

This is wonderful information in deed

Outsiders will forever be outsider if ...

[Taco Cowboy]

... that's what they want

I am a Chinese, born in China

In the US of A I am an *outsider* --- and if I want to forever remain an *outsider*, I can

In other words, if I remain an *outsider* that is because I choose to be an *outsider*

Look, man ! In this thread there is an Indian American (who was born in America) and a Chinese American, who was born in China already chimed in, and we share the same view, that the idea in which students can learn better from teachers who share the same racial background as them (the students) as a totally ridiculous notion

Political Correctness has no place in Education!!

Re:Outsiders will forever be outsider if ...

[ShanghaiBill]

Political Correctness has no place in Education!!

Except it isn't "political correctness". It is drawing conclusion from actual data. YOU are engaging in political correctness, by saying "race doesn't matter", when the data says it does.

Re:Outsiders will forever be outsider if ...

[kamapuaa]

So if a minority doesn't care, then it must be true? How about if a white guy does care, does that not count? Why does a minority opinion count more?

And why the total ignoring of science? If a well-run study suggests minority teachers are helpful, doesn't that trump personal anecdote from some stranger who says "hey guyz I'm chinese and I don't care!"

Re:Outsiders will forever be outsider if ...

[phantomfive]

I am a Chinese, born in China In the US of A I am an *outsider* --- and if I want to forever remain an *outsider*, I can

I could be wrong about this, but I feel like Chinese immigrants contribute paradoxically to their own feeling of outsiderness by calling everyone else an outsider when they speak their own language (wai-guo-ren - the best I can do on Slashdot). It seems like that only reinforces the 'otherness,' and others would actually be more accepting of them.

Re:Outsiders will forever be outsider if ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Race doesn't matter at all. Culture does, though.

If you teacher talks differently, and uses different cultural examples - you will have a harder time learning than if the teacher is just like you. But the race as such is immaterial.

Gender is one example - men and women are different socially - and often have different stereotype interests. So they are different as teachers.

A black man from a black suburb might be different from a white man from a white suburb. So, cultural differences might mean each of them is slightly better at teaching his own kind. But consider a black that grew up in the white culture - or vice versa. (Living in a certain neighbourhood may not be enough, consider someone adopted.) Doesn't happen that often, but then you see: it is culture that matters, not skin color.

Re:Outsiders will forever be outsider if ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Assume for a minute that the data is true and that there is a slight benefit to learning from teachers of your own race. Then, what sort of policy do you want to put in place? Should we make sure to hire as few minority teachers as possible in most places since a majority of the students are white? Because that is what the data suggests we do. Or are you suggesting that we instead segregate schools and have black people go to special schools with black teachers?

Male teachers

[itzly]

So, using the same line of thinking, they are also promoting hiring more male teachers to properly educate the boys in the classroom ? The elementary school that my kids went to saw their last male teacher leave a few years ago.

Re:Male teachers

[Squash]

Male teachers are getting more and more rare, and discrimination is the reason.

Meanwhile, people are hiring lesser-qualified minorities and H1B workers for half the cost of a better-qualified white american worker, and they get to fly the "DIversity!" flag like they're doing everyone a favor. (not that all minorities are lesser qualified, but the ones willing to work for half the cost likely are)

Re:Male teachers

[goose-incarnated]

I read AC upthread - linky - and tend to broadly agree with that sentiment. IOW, you have absolutely nothing to worry about as the force that is waging the PR-war is not going to let any other demographic be victims. They've cornered that market in such a way that no policy-maker will dare make a policy that enrages them - you will not be getting minority teachers because the PR army involved won't allow it because according to their ideology only they are victims.

Re:Male teachers

[moeinvt]

That doesn't follow at all. It's not just a "line of thinking" they actually conducted a study which lends support to the idea that race matching leads to improved outcomes.

Maybe a new study will look at gender? It could be that kids raised by mom are taught more effectively by females or that boys have better results with women and girls with men? Who knows until you look?

Re:Male teachers

[Ol Olsoc]

Maybe a new study will look at gender? It could be that kids raised by mom are taught more effectively by females or that boys have better results with women and girls with men? Who knows until you look?

Or maybe little kids who are assholes do better when taught by adults who are likewise assholes.

Is there a program to get more men in the ridiculously sexist school environment like there is one getting women in STEM careers?

Re:Male teachers

[Ol Olsoc]

So, using the same line of thinking, they are also promoting hiring more male teachers to properly educate the boys in the classroom ? The elementary school that my kids went to saw their last male teacher leave a few years ago.

And mommies in the school district probably sighed in relief that now the school is pedophile free.

Didn't you know that men must be kept out of our schools? Men are pigs!

Sad to say, I'll bet there were lots of women who applauded the guy leaving.

Re:Male teachers

[CannonballHead]

Male teachers are getting more and more rare, and discrimination is the reason.

Could it also be pay? I hear teaching (well, below college level) isn't particularly lucrative. And it is still at least partially the case that males tend to be the primary breadwinner. If you are making $40k a year teaching, or you could switch to software engineering or something and make $70k ...

I'm not saying it's not disrimination, either, I'm just wondering if we can really blame it solely on those sorts of societal pressures and not on economics, too.

Re:Male teachers

[Squash]

No, there are still plenty of men working middle-tier jobs in other fields, teaching isn't a special case when it comes to effort vs reward. Where it is a special case is the way it opens men up to gender-based discrimination (because if a man likes kids he's obviously a pedophile! Only women can like kids without it being sexual!) and that living under the constant threat of a single student's unsubstantiated and untrue claim of misconduct can and will cost you your career, your marriage, your friends, and possibly even your freedom.

Men have been teaching kids since teaching became a thing. We didn't just decide last week that we don't want to be teachers any more, we weigh the benefits against the risks and at some point it's just not worth it.

A few articles you may appreciate:
http://www.wsj.com/news/articl...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/edu...

Also, a candid discussion between male teachers:

http://www.reddit.com/r/teachi...

The skin and the groin.

[Anonymous Coward]

Everybody KNOWS these are the most important parts of a teacher. Of cause a teacher with the correct genitalia or skin color must be prioritized over the ones with the correct pedagogical skills and knowledge.

Why must this even be pointed out? It should be obvious to everyone!

Education has been in decline since women's lib.

[trout007]

This is a natural result of women's lib. Before that the smartest women (those that are today's scientists, engineers, doctors) would be awesome teachers. Today most teachers are either C students or the hold outs that truly find education as their calling. I'm not saying we need to go back to the old days but we can't keep the same system in place and expect better results.

Quotas are prejudicial

[Karmashock]

Where are the X percentage of race or gender in Y field? Enough with the quotas. Enough with people looking at statistics and saying "we need this ratio".

Even if you're not saying "do this or you're breaking the law" what they're doing is effectively trying to get quotas in through the back door.

There is a mixture of "oh you must be racist if you don't have X percentage" and then a little of "how about if we give you some money if you do X percentage?" and then maybe a bit of "show us how progressive you are by having X percentage".

Fuck your fucking percentages and ratios. That is not how you fix race and gender issues... by mandating BY ANY FUCKING MEANS some sort of ratio.

This doesn't help "people of color" which apparently only applies to black people because asians sure as hell aren't offered any affirmative action. There was that indian guy that wasn't' getting into medical school, then he got a different haircut and lied on his entrance application saying he was black... bam, got right in.

That's fucked up.

This racist bullshit needs to stop. I know what the idiots will say, "it isn't racist if you're biased against people "power"" ... which just means fuck white people and fuck Asians. It is bullshit and you're not going to make people trust the competence of people if everyone knows that X race or Y gender has to be hired at some ratio for SOME reason other than that they were ACTUALLY considered the best candidate for the job.

Furthermore, there is a lot more to diversity then your fucking skin color or whether or not you have a penis. Not all people with one skin color are the same. You can have ten people of all the same race in the same room and have more diversity in that room of THOUGHT than if you had some rainbow of races in the same room. For all you know those 10 people of the same race could have radically different backgrounds, skill sets, philosophies, etc. To say that they're all the same because they all have the same skin color is incredibly offensive and racist. You might as well just walk around saying "all you people look the same to me so I assume you all are the same"... Are you fucking kidding me. Same thing with dicks and vaginas. You are not your dick or your vagina. If I have a room full of 10 dicks or 10 vaginas they could be more diverse in their thoughts, backgrounds, skill sets, philosophies than if we had some 50 50 split.

What group of idiots out there thought that diversity was getting some mix of races and genders? This is a racist's idea of diversity. A non-racist doesn't see race as being relevant. They view who the person actually IS rather than what their skin color is... but a racist just sees "oh that's X race... and you know what they say about those people". THAT is how racists think. And these quotas arrive at a concept of "diversity" by that same logic. they say, well we have these people with these skin tones so obviously we have diversity. What the the actual fuck?

This is easily one of the most disappointing things about politics in the 21st century. The race, gender, and identity politics are beyond toxic. This shit is going to destroy our society.

We all have to see each other as individuals rather than pairing off into arbitrary meaningless racial groups and assuming that "oh I'm with the X race people which is my race so they've obviously got my back"... I can't speak for anyone else, but there are plenty of people in my own race that are utterly intolerable. Why would I reflexively associate with them when most of them are not people I especially relate... and they can't relate to me. I am as likely to find people I relate to in other races as my own. So where is this diversity through skin tone?

If we were shooting a magazine cover or something... I'd get it. You might want to get some people with one skin tone here and another there and who knows what the photographer is doing. But if you're running a business or an education system... WHO THE FUCK CARES.

The worst

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[Anonymous Coward]

Chill out Aspie. Stop taking things at face value and starting thinking in terms of corruption and you'll understand pandering without trying to argue the logic/rationale on it's merits.

Marketing research has indicated that cultural and wealth segregation along melanin content borders is still a very real thing. As such, these cultural distinctions are low hanging fruit for divide-and-conquer strategies, as well as opportunistic [insert cynical behavior here].

The brainiacs without any scruples aren't the problem, it's the human condition in all of it's oh-so-exploitable glory that gives birth to this nonsense. As long as we don't shame the racebaiters in to submission for pitching to the lowest common denominator, and as long as ignorant voters are more easily distracted from graft than educated ones: you will see continued efforts to undermine an educated populace and human nature will continue being used like an yazidi schoolgirl kidnapped by ISIS.

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[moeinvt]

I agree with the overwhelming majority of what you say. I especially appreciate your stating that 10 people of the same skin color can be orders of magnitude more "diverse" than having the magic rainbow. This prevailing "wisdom" that if you mix the right % of people from different races, genders and ethnic backgrounds you get an ideal outcome is absolute nonsense. AA and quotas are also absolute nonsense. The entire idea that fostering "diversity" and "multiculturalism" will lead to improved outcomes is only a feel-good measure. There is absolutely no empirical evidence to suggest that a work force, student body, government body etc. performs optimally with the "right" mix of races and genders.

However, the article is citing an actual observable phenomenon. Children learn better when taught by a member of their own race. Young kids are not capable of rationalizing thoughts such as yours. e.g. "If the teacher is qualified, who gives a damn?" I can theorize about why this might be true, but would be called a racist, so let's stop at the point where the observed data end.

Yes, to hell with all of the "magic diversity formula" and other nonsense, but hiring black teachers for black students and white teachers for white students to achieve improved results apparently has some empirical basis, so why not do it?

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[Karmashock]

Underlying a lot of the problems and POLITICS in this issue is that people are cooking a lot of the statistics.

Remember that Rolling Stones article where the writer first came to the conclusion that rape on college was out of control and then scoured the country looking for in her words an "emblematic" case to base her position on. That is how creationists do science. They start with the premise that the world is 6000 years old and then look for evidence to support that position. That is what is going on in a LOT of studies especially the statistical ones. Statistical studies are extremely easy to bias and very hard to audit.

As such, you can't take a statistical study in a politically charged issue at face value. That is with all respect, too trusting. I didn't say naive because that has insulting connotations which I do not intend. I merely mean that many people are not appropriately cynical about political activists or how invasive or pervasive they can become or are already.

To that end, what you want with something like this is multiple independent studies... ideally with some sort of double blind system set up so that the researchers don't actually know. If the teachers and students are all ID numbers in database A and their names and races etc are all in database B then I'd feel better about any conclusions they drew from the data. If the researchers know then they have fudge data analysis to suit preconceived conclusions.

What is more, these studies are almost always CORRELATIVE and not causitive. That is they know that given test scores CORRELATE with certain other parameters but they don't know WHICH of those parameters if ANY of them actually cause the result.

People with sniffles correlate with the cold... do sniffles cause the cold? No. The cold is caused by a virus which also causes the sniffles. However the sniffles correlate with the cold.

Other factors can be in play... age might be an issue for example. A sense of community and administrative acceptance might be an issue. if you're the white guy and you think no one accepts you then you might not be a good teacher because you've been made to feel uncomfortable. JUST an example of something that is possible.

The statistics are unconfirmed, were not conducted in a manner that would make them immune to manipulation, and they are at BEST correlative. Long story short, I do not find the statistics to be authoritative at this time.

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[Karmashock]

Why are people dicks for no reason? Whatever... I forgive you.

You call me an aspie and then not only agree with me but say that the people pushing this are simply doing it for political pandering.

Which while different from what I said, is hardly more honorable or respectable.

Silly insults aside, we agree that this is bullshit. Which was my central thesis.

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, exactly. I called you an aspie not because you were wrong. That's the point. You're oblivious to the fact that nobody worth mentioning disagrees with you on matters of point or logic. You are arguing the point vs. the premise which is what reveals your Aspergers syndrome. The issue isn't that it's wrong. That's blatantly obvious to almost everyone. The issue is that you think you're the only person who realizes that so you are arguing the point ad nauseam to the choir.
So as I said: aspie.

"Why are people dicks for no reason? Whatever... I forgive you."
Again: Aspie as hell.

"Silly insults aside, we agree that this is bullshit. Which was my central thesis."
And again: very very aspie.

Why are people dicks? You're rationalizing human behavior again. Non-aspies intuitively understand these things but find them impossible to articulate, or at-least: don't, because it makes them sound socially awkward.

It's like trying to get someone to describe a sound or a taste. It sticks out like a sore thumb that you can't hear/see/feel whatever that is. Why am I correcting you? Empathy, a desire to see you not suffer the same social ostracization I dealt with as a consequence of being similarly oblivious. Now I can articulate the context that you still can't see but you misinterpret it as hostile intent because of the delivery style.

Do you want to do more aspie sword-fighting or have you decided to re-read your posts several times and compare them to the rest of the posts on this topic and see what differs?

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[Karmashock]

No, I do not think I am the only person that has realized it.

However, if everyone knew it was bullshit then it wouldn't be a popular idea either. There have to be large numbers of gullible people that buy into the argument or they wouldn't have any reason to make such an argument in the first place.

In regards to you apparently being addicted to simply calling me an "aspie" without any reason for it... Whatever. I'm going to assume you have some kind of tourettes now... where instead of saying you want to fuck your mother whenever you get a little nervous... you just call people aspies for no reason.

Recognizing that YOU have a problem, I accept and forgive your insults as they're clearly not meaningful. :)

As to being unable to articulate your feelings... that isn't a mark of superiority... that's... kind of sad. I can articulate everything I feel and think. I understand myself. Your statement that you don't understand yourself is in no way an advantage.

As to your statement that color or taste can't be described... you're apparently not a big reader which isn't especially surprising. The better authors can describe such sensations beautifully. You read their works and you can smell the musk of the grass and taste the sweet acid of an orange.

I'm an veteran forum warrior and am utterly indifferent to your boasting. In any case, you're distracting the topic with your silliness. Please refrain from it if you're able to control yourself. If you're not able to to control yourself, then I forgive your condition and will do my best to ignore it out of common courtesy. :)

Good day, sir.

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[Anonymous Coward]

I would venture to say that you've demonstrated more emotional and attitudinal problems than the 'aspie' you're responding to.

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[Anonymous Coward]

no, he is not an aspie. an aspie is capable of behaving reasonably in a discussion with someone who does not hold their views. he has shown repeatedly that he cannot do this.

karmashock is not an aspie. he is an angry young child who cannot come to terms with the fact that the world his parents told him he would inherit does not exist.

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[LaurenCates]

but hiring black teachers for black students and white teachers for white students to achieve improved results apparently has some empirical basis, so why not do it?

Adding to what Karmashock is saying, I'd like to add the following: because it doesn't teach kids anything about diversity, or about being able to work with people that aren't like you.

If the thing you learn in life from school is "surround yourself with people like you because it's a security blanket", you'll eventually find yourself hobbled by the notion that you don't know how to deal with people that aren't like you. It doesn't toughen kids up for the real world, and reinforces the notion that kids should segregate themselves into their little groups of look-alikes and like-minded people. Because being different is scary and should be avoided at all costs!

Introducing kids to a diversity of people early in life normalizes them to the notion that 2 + 2 = 4, and it doesn't matter squat what color the person that teaches you that is, or whether their pants contain an innie or an outie.

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[AmiMoJo]

Okay man, breath... Calm down. Now, carefully re-read the summary and TFA.

They mention a percentage as evidence of low participation, but I don't see them mentioning a 50/50 goal anywhere. They don't appear to advocate forcing any particular ratio by any means. Your rant is mostly about stuff that only happened in your head, bro.

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[Karmashock]

Read my post again... I said any ratio by any means.

If you're attempting to effect your statistical ratio then you are attempting to get a desired ratio by some means.

Logic.

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[Anonymous Coward]

Puffery. I was in flame wars when you were still in diapers kiddo. You can't contain yourself. It's just "ass burgers this" and "ass burgers that". You're winning at a contest where you're the only one playing. The rest of your crap is tedious.

https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[Karmashock]

As you will, any sort of personal statement on the internet can be cited as puffery... I feel my qualifications are self evident. But you are of course welcome to form your own... I can't after all stop you from being wrong. :)

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh noes! I haz problems? Good thing I claimed to be an authority on emotional balanced behavior... Oh wait, no I didn't. lol

I know I'm an unhinged lunatic. That doesn't make me wrong about the Aspie though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Shield him from reality if you want. Everyone is thinking it. I can see it without even looking at the audiences faces. The disapproving facial expressions are probabilistic and Karmashock is a sufficiently inflamatory antogonist that he can suck that shit right out of them like a Harry Potter Deatheater.

"Schluurrrppp!"

LMFAO

Don't worry buddy, it's nothing personal, I don't want you to feel bad. I don't dislike you, but I do think you should be aware of the reaction you're invoking since you're obviously oblivious.

Re:Quotas are prejudicial

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm the AC troll who's been giving you a hard time. This post actually sounds like it was written by a human. Congrats.

Re:Education has been in decline since women's lib

[itzly]

When I went to school in the 80's, both my physics and chemistry teachers had a PhD. I remember my physics teacher deriving the formula for centripetal force on the blackboard from basic concepts, without using calculus. I don't think many of today's teachers would even know where to start.

If Microsoft truly cared...

[Pollux]

If Microsoft truly cared about education, why don't they just move their licensing division back from Nevada to Washington state and start paying their fair share of taxes to fund public schools there?

Re:If Microsoft truly cared...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because like you, everyone who calls for more taxes to be paid really means that someone else needs to pay more taxes, not them.

Where Are the Teachers of Color?

[GuB-42]

Where Are the Teachers of Color?

Probably in art schools, teaching things like additive and subtractive synthesis. And judging by the quality of some UIs, especially these made by coders, it is a legitimate question to ask.

Re:Education has been in decline since women's lib

[trout007]

Same here. Even my typing teacher had a PhD which is why I can touch type so well.

Men...

[nam37]

Here in Florida, my kid's schools have had plenty of racial diversity. What they lack is men. Growing up some of my favorite teachers were guys, but now there seem to be almost no male teachers.

Re:Men...

[Ol Olsoc]

Growing up some of my favorite teachers were guys, but now there seem to be almost no male teachers.

Don't you know? Men are Pigs. All male teachers are pedos and rapists. We cannot allow men around our children!!

Anyone who has the brass balls to complain about women in STEM and the horrible way that they are treated needs to fist com eup with a defense of the US school system in it's pre-assumption of sexcrime guilt by all males.

Quality

[Murdoch5]

Child benefit when taught by teachers who are qualified and able. As an example, in grade 8, I was taught that the world was 6000 years old, that light traveled in straight lines at all time, that bible was factual and that women were unable to rape men. That is a summary of what I was taught in the last two months of that year, none of the other years were any better.

Re:Education has been in decline since women's lib

[Jason Levine]

I'm not sure if this is a general trend across the country, but where I am teachers with actual degrees are being targeted so that they (and the public schools in which they teach) can be replaced with business-run charter schools and "teachers" who took a five week online course. The good teachers are fleeing the profession and I've heard more than one teacher tell people they wouldn't recommend that students choose becoming a teacher as their career.

Majority

[wisnoskij]

So we have a study that proves that hiring African/Hispanic/Asian teachers will necessarily hurt the education of the majority. So what do we do? We go out and hire as many African/Hispanic/Asian teachers as possible?

Re:Majority

[Ol Olsoc]

So we have a study that proves that hiring African/Hispanic/Asian teachers will necessarily hurt the education of the majority. So what do we do? We go out and hire as many African/Hispanic/Asian teachers as possible?

Assuming this is an accurate study, the actual answer is to study exactly why this happens. Short of an apartheid like situation where each student is forced to go only to teachers of their own ethnicity, how on earth would this even work?

And then there are students like say Tiger Woods. So many "races" mixed in - where would he fit in this? Is he "White"? Is he Asian? Is he African? Do we need to search out and have teachers of the specific racial mix?

And then, could you imagine the furor if a study came out noting that male teachers were better than female teachers at teaching male students?

In a reality based world, we would take the results of this study, and then look at incorporating possible solutions. Perhaps those (insert minority here) teachers who have greater success teaching students of their own race than white female teachers do might be studied for exactly what makes them more successful.

Solutions? Apartheid is not one of them.

Re:Majority

[wisnoskij]

We have moved away from viewing race in that way. Tiger Woods is any ethnicity that he chooses to be, at any given time. And I think that that is the most likely avenue through which the added success is brought about, Students will do better if they believe that they are being taught by their race, regardless of if the person is generically far more different form them than some other-raced children in the same class (who are doing worse because of their perceived difference). Yes, their might very well be a significant factor that a teacher teaches as they learnt themselves, which is most likely to correlate to how genetically similar people will best learn the same stuff. But I personally am bending towards a more generic psychological reason. The more different someone looks to you the more fear, anger and mistrust you will have towards them and the more stress you will have in their presence; Which will interfere with the learning process.

Re:Majority

[Ol Olsoc]

We have moved away from viewing race in that way. Tiger Woods is any ethnicity that he chooses to be, at any given time.

Wait. Are you saying I can call myself African American?

Students will do better if they believe that they are being taught by their race, regardless of if the person is generically far more different form them than some other-raced children in the same class (who are doing worse because of their perceived difference).

Well - aside from the overt, unbridled, and in my face racism of your remark, it's completely bankrupt and silly. Do I have the right to insist on a eastern European teacher because otherwise my children won't do as well? How about a person of Moor descendance? The pygmy tribe os Africa - do they have a right to demand Pygmy teachers? This demand tor same race teachers is more racist than appartheid, it makes the old school southern race baiters look mild.

Perhaps this will make for rstrange bedfellows, as the liberal diversificationists and Ku Klux Klan band together to make sure those children of color are not exposed to anything that might lower their grades.

Seems like a complete separation of the races is needed, eh Don't want to hold those children back, eh? Sorry Charlie, take your racist attitudes elsewhere.

Re:Education has been in decline since women's lib

[trout007]

What do you mean by actual degree?

Properly Represented

[unixcorn]

As a school board member in my community, I know that we would like our teachers to closely represent our district demographics. Our district is a combination of urban, suburban and rural so it's a challenge to maintain these numbers even though we have a university in town churning out new teachers. The fact of the matter is, people of color are not choosing education as a major and if they are, they are being hired right out of college by larger districts.
For the record, I think the premise of the article is outrageous and most likely wrong. While I do believe kids need mentors, I also believe those folks can be anyone who cares. Kids can relate to whomever as long as an effort is made to understand their situations and any judgements are withheld.

Re:Properly Represented

[misexistentialist]

If you want teachers to represent the community obviously the first step is not to require a college degree.

Re:Properly Represented

[unixcorn]

Nothing would please me more. I went to vocational school and have been turned away by several employers because I don't have a degree. My personal opinion is that college is a business that has effectively promoted itself into being necessary for survival. Certainly someone with 20+ years of experience should be allowed to teach within their field, shouldn't they?

Re:Properly Represented

[Hevel-Varik]

That is absurd. Long ago teachers knew the material very well but had no formal training in teaching and now teachers do not know the material well but have tons of training in teaching and everybody knows that modern education is the bestest ever.

Re:Education has been in decline since women's lib

[Anonymous Coward]

'70s in the Detroit suburbs, public schools, I can't recall a teacher than only had a bachelor's that wasn't a trainee sitting sidesaddle with one of the regulars. They sure as hell were much better than what my daughter had a few years ago, and she was in Fairfax Co, VA...probably the best public system in the state.

Danger Will Robinson!

[Ol Olsoc]

Have they determined how children will learn based on the teacher's religion, sex or sexual orientation?

Should ht African-American Students be shuttled off to be taught by African American teachers?

This being America, can a student of color and their parent's sue for some portion of a grade point average, claiming that they could have been accepted to a better college?

In the end, this sounds like some mutant form of liberal apartheid.

Re:Education has been in decline since women's lib

[Jason Levine]

I mean a teaching degree. Where the person studies education, childhood development, and other subjects that make that person capable to educate growing minds. The "5 week course" is analogous to taking someone whose computer experience is launching Word, giving them a 5 week course on server administration and then making them your sysadmin. Yes, the person might be able to go some of the motions of server administration, but they'll never be as good as someone with years of server administration under their belt.

Re:Education has been in decline since women's lib

[trout007]

But a teaching degree doesn't teach you to master the material you are teaching. At most it can allow you to manage a class and teach from a book which is exactly the problem we have today. I'm not saying 5 weeks is enough but I would take someone that worked as a biologist their whole life and took a 5 week course over someone with a teaching degree that studied biology for 5 weeks.

modern man

[Hevel-Varik]

I thought this was going to be amount getting more men into teaching positions but equal racial representation is significant becuase race is signifcant and equal gender representation is insignificant because gender is insignificant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...

Yay..

[Anonymous Coward]

More 'social justice' shaming language and racism.

Causes

[wisnoskij]

Assuming that this study is pointing out a real thing, and is in general terms correct, I see two main possible causes.

1) Teachers teach how they learnt and understand the content. So will obviously be better teachers to those who learn in the same way they do. Which could possibly be highly correlated to genetics and race (and therefore more casually correlated to general skin color and to perception of race).

2) We already know that there is an innate pre-programmed distrust, hatred, and fear of difference. If we view ourselves as from a different social/economic/cultural/ and in particular genetic group from someone else we will obviously be more stressed around them if nothing else. And these feelings are likely going to lead to reduced learning ability.

Discrimination?

[RobinH]

Wouldn't it be discrimination (against the teacher) to have black teachers teaching in predominantly black schools and white teachers teaching in predominantly white schools?