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Crashing iPad App Grounds Dozens of American Airline Flights

infolation writes: American Airlines was forced to delay multiple flights on Tuesday night after the iPad app used by pilots crashed. Introduced in 2013, the cockpit iPads are used as an "electronic flight bag," replacing 16kg (35lb) of paper manuals which pilots are typically required to carry on flights. In some cases, the flights had to return to the gate to access Wi-Fi to fix the issue.

263 comments

  1. NB4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    holding the plane wrong

    1. Re: NB4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If i remeber correctly the ipad license that you have to agree to, states that it is not to be used where risk of life threatening injury may be incurred, in a nuclear facility, etc. (you know the standard disclaimer). Does this make the airlines (more) liable in the event of a crash? This is the equivalent of using popsicle sticks as structural intrgrity patches.

  2. Shoulda run Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    or at least the Android variant thereof. Fools.

    1. Re:Shoulda run Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Right... because running a different operating system would have stopped a 3rd party application from crashing. >.

    2. Re:Shoulda run Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL. Let us know when there's an electronic flight bag on a reliable Android tablet.

      You know, one that doesn't get malware if you're in say Taiwan or China or the Philippines - places these tablets will go. And can have the OS updated without a carrier. And doesn't require cyanogen to work well.

    3. Re:Shoulda run Linux by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 0

      Given the borderline paranoid level of FAA security, I'm sure these iPads are of the WiFi-only variety and can't be connected to anything other than the FAA-approved-certified-encrypted networks.

    4. Re:Shoulda run Linux by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Funny

      Let the Zealots have their fun.
      Lets really ignore the fundamental architecture between Android (Linux) and iOS (BSD) Are actually very close in design.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re: Shoulda run Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that the pilots are not allowed to connect except at specific points, it is not likely that China, etc. Will infect the tablet.
      In addition, the rest of your post was just BS.

    6. Re: Shoulda run Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good grief, it's a freetard circle jerk in here!

    7. Re:Shoulda run Linux by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      Right... because running a different operating system would have stopped a 3rd party application from crashing. >.

      Well, it's pretty likely that trying to run an iOS app under Android would result in the application not even starting....

    8. Re:Shoulda run Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Fly you fools".

      -- By Gandalf Android App

    9. Re:Shoulda run Linux by sudon't · · Score: 1

      Let the Zealots have their fun.
      Lets really ignore the fundamental architecture between Android (Linux) and iOS (BSD) Are actually very close in design.

      Right. Nevermind that the app crashed, not the OS.

      --
      -- sudon't

      Air-ride Equipped

    10. Re:Shoulda run Linux by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      No. We are talking about a well understood industry standard document format. The idea that 100 million dollar planes could be grounded over not being able to open PDF documents is simply appalling regardless of what kind of excuses you want to make for it.

      If it wasn't Apple code that was directly responsible here it certainly seems that their approach to design was at the heart of all of this.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    11. Re: Shoulda run Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the app crashed, and you still have shut off yours prior to flight? Now, slo the crew all can access the last of their soap prior to flight. Just to have something to talk about enroute. But they should have been able to tag to the telephone on the, oh yeah, that's off till you get off the ground also. Ever figured that one out. So a multi million dollar aircraft, Connor be flown without the app running? Sounds like a key.

    12. Re:Shoulda run Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Application crashed, not the OS.

      A badly written application will crash on any OS that it runs on.

      The fact you could not tell the difference says you are not smart enough to comment.

    13. Re:Shoulda run Linux by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You really like showing yourself up as a fucking idiot that doesn't understand computers. Nothing in the article says they couldn't open PDF files. Nor even that they use PDF files. It says the airline's app crashed.

      Given that lots of them crashed at the same time, the chances are that a web service they connect to went down, and they hadn't accounted for it in their programming. With a smaller possibility that they were doing something in the app based on the clock time. Either way absolutely nothing to do with the mobile OS.

    14. Re:Shoulda run Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi Richard!

    15. Re:Shoulda run Linux by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      No. We are talking about a well understood industry standard document format. The idea that 100 million dollar planes could be grounded over not being able to open PDF documents is simply appalling regardless of what kind of excuses you want to make for it.

      If it wasn't Apple code that was directly responsible here it certainly seems that their approach to design was at the heart of all of this.

      An overflowing toilet can keep a 100 million dollar plane on the ground, so I'm sure a computer can.

  3. Wow ... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Now there's a technology fail for you.

    Reminds me of a US naval ship being towed to shore because Windows NT crashed.

    I guess this is a problem when you have consumer technology being used in mission critical environments.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Wow ... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2, Interesting

      single vendor solution, huh? really? REALLY? you flyboys thought that trusting one platform, instead of having a dual tech strategy was ENOUGH?

      who the hell is designing this system? who thought that not having an alternative backup (even if just a netbook with pdfs loaded) was a good idea?

      that person or group should be fired and never hired into tech again.

      stupid neophyte must be running the FAA. this does NOT inspire confidence, guys!!!

      shit, guys; when I do a presentation (ie, much less critical than a FLIGHT) I bring dual tech; if my overhead slides crash, I will have foils or at least a file with me that I can use on someone else's system in the classroom. if I'm using redundancy in non-mission critical situations, I'm boggled by the fact that you flyboys brought only ONE type of tech onboard for this map stuff.

      hey folks: witness the power of BRIBES, PAYOFFS AND CORRUPTION! because I cannot believe that any sane person in the tech field would send pilots up in the air with just ONE type of tech for critical documentation. some PHB must have signed a sweetheart exclusive deal with apple.

      sigh. capitalism fucks us again. when will we finally agree that 'lowest bidder' is never the right thing when it comes to safety and key infrastructure elements.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Wow ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      This is a fail because they could have continued to carry the physical copy of everything needed as a Plan B.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    3. Re:Wow ... by bondsbw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What part of gstoddart's post didn't you understand? I don't see any mention of iOS or the app store in that post.

      A bit overly defensive, eh?

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    4. Re:Wow ... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What part of "no fucking kidding" don't you understand?

      I didn't say it was the exact same thing, I said it reminded me of a time when another epic technology fail caused a similarly huge cluster fuck.

      I don't give a crap what the crash was ... I care that a piece of technology barfed all over the place and left people sitting around going "what the hell do we do now?"

      When an airline has to halt operations because of something like their iPad crashing, that's a sure sign that someone hasn't really been doing a sufficient job of testing.

      I used to work on a project which dealt with people who do aircraft maintenance .. this is not an industry who collectively takes risks. But apparently their software vendor doesn't see it that way.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:Wow ... by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Interesting

      eFlight books were switched to to save millions of dollars in fuel costs every year. They're that heavy.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    6. Re:Wow ... by Imagix · · Score: 2

      While I get the thought behind the redundancy, bringing the physical copies defeats one of the purposes of doing the tablet in the first place. They're trying to reduce the weight, not increase it.

    7. Re:Wow ... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 5, Informative

      The US naval ship Windows NT crash meme is somewhat of a myth - there was a testbed ship (USS Yorktown CG-48) running an experimental ship management and integration system. The crash did indeed occur, but it had nothing to do with Windows NT and everything to do with invalid data being entered into the apps management system causing all linked systems to stop working. While everyone jumps on the "Windows NT" aspect of this, it would have happened under Unix as well.

    8. Re:Wow ... by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Problem is the EFB always needs to be up to date and synchronized between pilot and copilot. I imagine the problem was associated with a Jeppsen update more than the ipad, but the recent wifi hack does bring that into question some...

    9. Re:Wow ... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      What I'm surprised by is the fact that this problem just suddenly cropped up on a given day(and with enough units that it wasn't just a hardware fluke).

      These ipads were replacements for a big bag of relatively static documentation. For that purpose, you'd think that you would freeze the iOS version for long periods of time(and have IT test the hell out of any updates), and have a similarly static app that Nobody Touches without substantial approval, with only some PDF or HTML documents specific to the flight swapped out as needed.

      Ipads aren't formally proven ultra-reliable systems or anything; but it seems a little weird that they'd unexpectedly fall over under the relatively undemanding task of displaying documentation generated by a non-hostile source.

      Are these 'electronic flight bags' actually a great deal more complex than that? Was American Airlines monkeying with production systems on a tight schedule? Anyone have a plausible scenario here?

    10. Re:Wow ... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Redundancy doesn't need to be hardcopies. Either bring backup I-pads, or better maybe a backup windows tab so you have both diversity and redundancy.

      Also, since this happened to many at about the same time, I assume an update or change was to blame. Don't update these unless there is a reason. And test if you do update, or keep a non-updated backup on hand until the update is proven reliable.

    11. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using the word "flyboys" is racist.

    12. Re:Wow ... by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because they were expecting to save millions in fuel from not schlepping them around.

      So bringing the physical copy would have been almost 40 pounds of crap, which would defeat the purpose of having the iPad.

      Not saying I agree with not having a backup. But I can see why airlines wanted to get rid of it.

      A little known fact about aircraft manuals ... pretty much no two are identical since the production of planes changes over the years, and they all have slightly different pieces and parts. So this 737 is unlikely to be identical to that 737.

      You cant' have one manual, you need one for each damned aircraft. Which is part of the appeal for having it in electronic form.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    13. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a pretty shitty OS that lets an app shut down the whole operating system on a crash.

    14. Re:Wow ... by danbob999 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      single vendor solution, huh? really? REALLY?

      I still can't believe so many schools districts make the same mistake. It's like bending over asking to be vendor locked-in.

    15. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Divide by zero causes the same problem on all OSes AFAIK.

    16. Re:Wow ... by CastrTroy · · Score: 2

      But there are millions of flights every years. So are you saying that they saved $1 per flight? Wouldn't it make sense to keep copies of the manual around at the airport so that they could use them if necessary? It wouldn't have any fuel costs to keep them on the ground.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    17. Re:Wow ... by bobbied · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They DO have a backup...

      Both pilots carry IDENTICAL I-Pads.... What amazes me is that nobody thought of the single point of failure, the application the I-Pads run.. OOPS..

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    18. Re:Wow ... by Imagix · · Score: 1

      Erm, the comment I was replying to specifically called out bringing physical hardcopies. Although another poster did mention that perhaps having a physical copy at the gate might have been a good idea (don't consume weight on the plane, but is available to deploy if needed. Although does nothing for in-flight problems.). Would have turned cancelled flights into delayed flights.

    19. Re:Wow ... by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At the time Windows NT wasn't a consumer technology, Windows NT was a serious contender in the server space, for mission critical systems. At that time Linux was still considered a Hobby OS. Other alternatives were Unix variant, but during those stages they weren't really that much better. It was just when we heard that Windows NT crashed, we all laughed at it, because of allegiance towards Linux.

      However today... Consumer technology today Windows, Android, iOS. Are really based on Professional Server Grade OS Kernels. They are just running on cheaper hardware.

      The issue for this isn't blaming the iPad or iOS but the maker of that App for those documents. They screwed up, This would have happened if they had a Million Dollar professional system in their hands too.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    20. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, back in the day try pulling the network cable out of a ^NIX box and it would freeze

    21. Re:Wow ... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Racist? Why? Sexist, maybe...

    22. Re:Wow ... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      I agree, wasn't debating your point, just adding....

    23. Re:Wow ... by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, how they failed to have two distinct sets which are never updated at the same time eludes me.

      That just pretty much guaranteed it would eventually go wrong on them.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    24. Re:Wow ... by shitzu · · Score: 2, Interesting

      From the referred article: "The pilot came on and said that his first mate’s iPad powered down unexpectedly, and his had too, and that the entire 737 fleet on American had experienced the same behavior". This sounds awfully familiar to the latest IOS vulnerability published just a week ago - http://betanews.com/2015/04/22...

    25. Re:Wow ... by j2.718ff · · Score: 1

      This is a fail because they could have continued to carry the physical copy of everything needed as a Plan B.

      I did not see any information about whether or not the still carry a physical copy as a backup. If it were up to me, I would do just that. And since the physical copy is the backup, not the primary, I would not begin a flight unless I knew that both my primary (iPad) and backup (paper) were both available and working.

    26. Re:Wow ... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      And how exactly would that solve this problem? The one of not having the flight book *in the plane*?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    27. Re:Wow ... by jittles · · Score: 1

      But there are millions of flights every years. So are you saying that they saved $1 per flight? Wouldn't it make sense to keep copies of the manual around at the airport so that they could use them if necessary? It wouldn't have any fuel costs to keep them on the ground.

      Try each airline is saving millions of dollars of fuel, not the industry as a whole. And it's not just fuel, they have to worry about these things being out of date - version control is critical with this data. So they also spend money on having people verify that the pilots have the correct data that could be used for other purposes.

    28. Re:Wow ... by jittles · · Score: 1

      Redundancy doesn't need to be hardcopies. Either bring backup I-pads, or better maybe a backup windows tab so you have both diversity and redundancy. Also, since this happened to many at about the same time, I assume an update or change was to blame. Don't update these unless there is a reason. And test if you do update, or keep a non-updated backup on hand until the update is proven reliable.

      The update was likely to some item of data the application uses, not the application itself. Otherwise it would have affected the entire AA fleet and not just 737's. This data is updated frequently and using old data could be dangerous to that flight and other planes in the air.

    29. Re:Wow ... by jittles · · Score: 2

      These ipads were replacements for a big bag of relatively static documentation. For that purpose, you'd think that you would freeze the iOS version for long periods of time(and have IT test the hell out of any updates), and have a similarly static app that Nobody Touches without substantial approval, with only some PDF or HTML documents specific to the flight swapped out as needed.

      The data is not static. And the fact that it happened only to the 737 aircraft in the fleet suggests that it had something to do with data that was specific to this aircraft and not the application or iPad OS itself.

    30. Re:Wow ... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Those flight bags, at 35 lbs, were also very uncomfortable for the pilots to lug around. I remember how heavy a backpack full of textbooks was as a student, and wouldn't wish to repeat that experience at my age, which is still younger than many pilots. I wouldn't be surprised if the pilots were pushing for this as well.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    31. Re:Wow ... by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      But there are millions of flights every years. So are you saying that they saved $1 per flight? Wouldn't it make sense to keep copies of the manual around at the airport so that they could use them if necessary? It wouldn't have any fuel costs to keep them on the ground.

      So what you mean is that pilots must read and memorize the document at the airport before they take off? Your suggested solution does not solve anything and is irrelevant. The issue is that they need the document on board, not leaving behind at the airport. The weight of document implies that there are a lot of information you have with on board (35 lbs). Saving fuel cost is what airlines try to do in order to profit more...

    32. Re:Wow ... by Megane · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think that's a likely cause. I doubt they're updating the app (executable) on a regular basis and pushing the update, when it's only the data that changes regularly. All it takes is one glitch in a weekly data update, and one bad switch statement to cause a program to crash.

      Proper error handling is one of the most important things in keeping things running (especially in unattended systems), but one of the harder things to get right, because it's hard to test (as in QA) for every possible unexpected input. You have to get a bit paranoid with your coding, because garbage input really is out to get you.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    33. Re:Wow ... by Megane · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And then someone has to print some of those books on a regular basis. And then someone has to dispose of them when they expire. And the pilots probably carry regularly updated information for every airport in the countries they might fly in, whether they go to that airport or not.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    34. Re:Wow ... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Yea, but the problem was discovered before the aircraft left the ground so this is not a safety issue.

      I'm guessing that their solution will be to put Pilots and Copilots on different update schedules and also allow for the immediate roll back of any software updates by the user. Where I don't think having one application on one OS is necessarily all that risky, what cost them in this case was the inability for the pilots to roll back to the last version that worked right after an upgrade or grab a 'backup device" from the pilot's lounge if theirs is somehow messed up. Given that the issue is not safety but more about keeping the schedule here, I imagine that the logistical costs of their solution will be a primary consideration.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    35. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apple forces a lot of stuff on IOS. Maybe they can make an faa approved build / custom app store / app update system or even build in roll back.

    36. Re:Wow ... by kaiser423 · · Score: 2

      This. So much this. I don't get why people don't understand staggered roll outs. Do an update on one, wait two weeks, then update the other. Or heck, do a tick/tock update where they're always on slightly different versions.

      Google does this for a reason with all of their updates in the Android store, and lots of major devs do it also. It's built into the deployment tool, where you can specify all at once or how to dole it out so that you see major bugs before they affect you're entire group. I can only assume that they have a similar mechanism that will allow it to happen simply for their custom iPad app.

    37. Re:Wow ... by Guspaz · · Score: 2

      Return to gate to get on wifi to fix it vs return to gate to get backup paper documents. Either way they'd have been in the same boat.

    38. Re:Wow ... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      eFlight books were switched to to save millions of dollars in fuel costs every year. They're that heavy.

      They're 16kg (35lb) (from TFS) - hardly "that heavy". One drink cart weighs more than that - empty.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    39. Re:Wow ... by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      They still carry a paper copy of their emergency handbook, the one with all the emergency procedures in it. The iPads failing in the air wouldn't be a safety issue so long as the radio didn't fail, since I don't think there's any information in the iPad that the controller can't talk the aircraft through.

    40. Re: Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the story you link, iDevices crash because they try to communicate with an AP that gives out maliciously crafted info. These pilots, on the contrary, are away on the tarmac out of AP range when the iPad reboots.

    41. Re:Wow ... by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm guessing that their solution will be to put Pilots and Copilots on different update schedules and also allow for the immediate roll back of any software updates by the user. Where I don't think having one application on one OS is necessarily all that risky, what cost them in this case was the inability for the pilots to roll back to the last version that worked right after an upgrade or grab a 'backup device" from the pilot's lounge if theirs is somehow messed up. Given that the issue is not safety but more about keeping the schedule here, I imagine that the logistical costs of their solution will be a primary consideration.

      No can do.

      The problem isn't the iPad. Or the application. It's that one particular updated doc caused a problem.

      And by flight regulations, EVERYONE has to carry the latest revision of the document. And every document is on a different update schedule.

      Some documents are changed only when there are updates. Other documents have fixed expiry dates and must be updated to the latest version before that.

      And at all times you must have the latest available updates - sure there's maybe a week of grace when the new edition comes out before the old edition expires, but that's about it.

      In the paper world, people were actually employed to go through all 35lbs of documents ensuring the latest versions of every page were present (pages are usually supplied as differences in binders, so you remove the old page and stick in the new page. Pages were versioned (typically by date) and there's often a cover sheet saying what's the latest version of each page (updated every time there's an update).

      Of course, if you have hundreds of pilots each having to do this, eventually the human version of patch(1) will screw up, so you need to double check for this.

      It's why EFBs have been so widely embraced - not having to have someone check 35lbs of documents practically daily, not having to have a whole infrastructure set up to distribute updates, not having to spend time updating documents, etc, it's a terrible chore.

      In fact, given the number of updates and how long it's been going on, it's surprising it's only happened once that an update screws up - I'm sure in the past with paper it happened dozens or hundreds of times a day because updates happen that often, usually to different subsets of the pilots.

    42. Re:Wow ... by nedlohs · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Windows NT is software. An ipad app is software.

      You'd have to pretty damn retarded to not see how the two cases are similar. Not exactly the same of course, which no one claimed anyway.

    43. Re:Wow ... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      The update was likely to some item of data the application uses, not the application itself.

      I don't see how you have any information to support this assumption. I'd guess its more likely an IOS update and some resulting incompatibility. Updating the data itself is probably the least likely change to cause error. Also, that data probably doesn't change very often, so it would have been pretty obvious if that were a root cause.

    44. Re:Wow ... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      x number of copies per plane
      x number of flights per plane
      x number of planes
      = >$1,000,000 in savings

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    45. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You probably didn't realize you were connected via ssh and thought that was a freeze.

    46. Re:Wow ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      If you're not fit enough to carry a 35 lb flight bag, you're not fit enough to be a pilot. The weight is a feature, not a bug.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    47. Re:Wow ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      It's easier to find things on the iPad. However, when something goes wrong (battery, dropped, etc), you'd better have a backup plan. The manuals are an obvious one, and don't add anything new to the routine or to training.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    48. Re:Wow ... by jittles · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The update was likely to some item of data the application uses, not the application itself.

      I don't see how you have any information to support this assumption. I'd guess its more likely an IOS update and some resulting incompatibility. Updating the data itself is probably the least likely change to cause error. Also, that data probably doesn't change very often, so it would have been pretty obvious if that were a root cause.

      The evidence to suggest that it was a data change and not an application update was that their entire fleet of 737's was down. There was no report of another airframe being affected. Also, the data does change on a regular basis. From the FAA:

      if your chart is more than 8 weeks old it probably isn't current. Aeronautical information changes frequently; more frequently than every six months. That is why we publish the Aeronautical Chart Bulletin in the back of each Airport/Facility Directory (AFD) every 56 days and why it is important that you consult the Notices to Airmen (NOTAMs) prior to each flight.

    49. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's rascist against wymmyn, you phallocentric clod!

    50. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the problem wasn't that there was no backup... it's that American Airlines forgot to promote Apple in their commercials, so Apple decided to "prune the walled garden".

    51. Re:Wow ... by TheTrueScotsman · · Score: 1

      There was no ssh 'back in the day'. First version was in 1995.

    52. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Irrelevant. What's important is now the criminals and communist countries are aware that a malicious payload disguised as a Jeppsen chart update can bring an entire airline to a halt. How long until this happens, not as an accident, but as an act of war? How long until airlines start doing this to harm other airlines' market share? How long until some terrorist tries this on an airborne flight to assassinate some VIP on board?

    53. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up Babs. As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    54. Re:Wow ... by dfsmith · · Score: 1

      I don't get why people don't understand staggered roll outs....

      Here's a scenario:

      • Captain A: I see communications have failed. What does your manual say to do?
      • Co-pilot B: It says to do ABC.
      • A: Hmm. Mine says XYZ is the procedure.
      • B: That's peculiar, let's have a long technical discussion.

      In this case, checking the EFB on the ground may have been safer than resolving conflicting versions in the air.

    55. Re:Wow ... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Then the damn OS shouldn't allow it!

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    56. Re:Wow ... by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >B: That's peculiar, let's have a long technical discussion.

      If only there was some way of adding "versions" to things electronically.

    57. Re:Wow ... by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm boggled by the fact that you flyboys brought only ONE type of tech onboard for this map stuff.

      Maybe your argument is with Jeppsen. They've had a pretty big monopoly for a very long time now.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    58. Re:Wow ... by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      > And how exactly would that solve this problem? The one of not having the flight book *in the plane*?

      This is a perfect example of the helpless (and rigid) mentality of the Apple user.

      The solution is pretty simple really...

      1) Take one of those trucks that they use to load meals and snacks and sodas and fill it with manuals.

      2) Drive up to the grounded plane.

      3) Open the door.

      4) Shove printed manuals through the door.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    59. Re:Wow ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      blaming the opening system for the failure of a 3rd party application

      Where the fuck did I blame the OS? I cited a well known example of an epic software failure (in which a badly written DB crashed NT).

      In this case, a badly written app (or piece of data) crashed a bunch of iPads.

      I blame badly tested commercial software in both cases, and hold both as examples of people doing a shitty job of writing software in "must not fail" contexts.

      Having worked in regulated industries, and knowing damned well how risk averse they are, for this to end up happening to pilots already in an aircraft ... it's mind boggling. Because it means someone did a terrible job of testing and verifying.

      Funny how details never seem to matter to trolls.

      Yes, funny, isn't it?

      Because your comprehension of what I said suggests you might be stupid.

      Go wave your little penis elsewhere.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    60. Re:Wow ... by bobbied · · Score: 3, Informative

      The emergency handbook for the aircraft isn't the issue here, it's the maps and approach plates which are constantly changing and must be kept current. The maps are legally required to fly IFR so it's part of the checklist before you kick the tires and light the fires you make sure you have the necessary maps and approach plates for your destination and alternates.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    61. Re:Wow ... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Nope. A fit person should not have any problem with another 35lb bag. We are likely talking about former military officers here. These are people that at some point in their lives had to carry someone as big as you around. Possibly they even did that on a 20 or 30 mile march.

      Nevermind the fact that the relevant bag likely has wheels...

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    62. Re:Wow ... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      LOFL.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    63. Re:Wow ... by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Honestly, the Apple-ness of this is completely irrelevant, and you know damned well it is.

      A device, approved by the FAA for these purposes, received an update from the vendor (probably), which caused said device to crash. Since the function of that device is required by FAA regulations, you can't fly without it.

      The bundle of manuals weighed around 40 pounds, and eliminating them was expected to save them millions in fuel costs.

      This exact same problem could have happened on Windows or Linux.

      Your bitching about Apple users is stupid and irrelevant.

      This is a problem with a piece of mission critical software failing in a large way. Which means it has more to do with lazy/greedy corporations than what fucking OS was being used.

      But, hey, don't let any of that stop you from your bullshit.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    64. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an idiot. To be fair, however, you had me until your political rant about capitalism. The problem here is the FAA chose that single technology, and allowed it into the air without any backup or "failure modes" as they are called in the industry. Leave it to the FAA to replace something as reliable as a book with a single point of failure that runs on batteries.

      The FAA is a political bureaucratic beast. It's more important for them to tell the world that THEY will decide when the 787 can fly with its new batteries, not Boeing or the owners of the planes.

      Your first mistake, Mr. Grateful Net, is blaming the results of an oppressive, draconian, and unrepentant government on capitalism. Your own comments correctly focus the problem on the FAA, and then you turn around and blame capitalism. You don't see that the FAA has created its own version of the last mile problem where Apple is the new Comcast. Are you pleased with your Comcast service? Do you like your phone company? Again, you're an idiot.

      Capitalism, and our free enterprise system that implements it, is the solution to the very problems you're bitching about. If the free market was allowed to operate unfettered, the airlines would be able to choose between multiple technologies as they see fit. Just like the stock market, the free market place constantly searches for the best value which is different than the "lowest bidder". It is infinitely better than your "stupid neophyte" making a big decision that affects millions of lives in order to justify her bureaucratic existence.

      Your accusations of bribery and corruption are just as moronic. Never attribute to malice what is explained by stupidity. The FAA is all about building their empire and increasing their perceived importance through airspace grabs, power grabs, and controlling everyone and everything. They pat themselves on the back, claiming that they're keeping people safe, while putting single points of failure in the air with innocent lives depending on them. The word "incompetent" fits them perfectly.

      Finally, you completely missed the most important point of all. Why are these iPads allowed in commercial airliners with any wireless transceivers at all? Doesn't anyone realize what a huge security risk that is? It's as if the FAA and the airlines are just begging for a major loss of life, and you didn't even mention it.

      So, your technical points are fine although incomplete. Please pull your political head out of your ass and please, please, PLEASE stop voting Democrat you insensitive clod! You're ruining my free country!

    65. Re:Wow ... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      So then it was telnet instead of ssh. The same action will produce the same result. That same result will be mischaracterized the same way (by idiots).

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    66. Re:Wow ... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2

      Interesting. Thanks. But the entire fleet was not down, only several dozen. The ipads "powered down unexpectedly", not the type of behavior you expect from changes to a document data change, but a very common problem when an app or OS has been updated or changed in some manner.

    67. Re:Wow ... by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      Yes, but if something goes wrong in-flight, and you lose the approach plate, it's not something that is necessarily dangerous because the controller can provide the same information. However, if your emergency handbook is on the tablet and you lose it, then you're in a real bind.

    68. Re:Wow ... by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      You literally wrote "I guess this is a problem when you have consumer technology being used in mission critical environments."

      The consumer technology portions of the system were the iPad hardware and the IOS operating system, so the respondents pointed out that portion did not fail.

      The portion which did fais is not consumer technology and no consumer would have any reason to have it.

    69. Re:Wow ... by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      They identified the problem while the plane was on the ground, and indeed the problem kept the pilots from departing, so there would still be opportunity to put them on the plane.

    70. Re:Wow ... by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      No matter how easy it is to carry 35 pounds around, it is even easier to not carry 35 pounds.

    71. Re:Wow ... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm sure they were just sitting, waiting at the gate. Updated & all.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    72. Re:Wow ... by jittles · · Score: 1

      Interesting. Thanks. But the entire fleet was not down, only several dozen. The ipads "powered down unexpectedly", not the type of behavior you expect from changes to a document data change, but a very common problem when an app or OS has been updated or changed in some manner.

      You're right, it was just dozens - I misremembered the article. But they all appeared to be at the same time. You can't do auto update on the OS itself, though an app update could happen automatically. But supposedly they could not get the iPads to work at all without reconnecting to the airport WiFi network. That doesn't make much sense for any kind of update.

    73. Re:Wow ... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Well, I suppose that a data update could trigger some bug already in the software, an option I didn't think about until reading your response.

    74. Re:Wow ... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      And then someone has to print some of those books on a regular basis. And then someone has to dispose of them when they expire. And the pilots probably carry regularly updated information for every airport in the countries they might fly in, whether they go to that airport or not.

      Well, for safety purposes they really need access to info for any airport they might come within range of. For a long flight, that is a LOT of airports.

      The EFB can trivially store all that data globally, and also make it far more accessible. If they break through clouds and just want to navigate visually, one button pulls up the sectional/WAC chart for the area, vs having to dig up a rarely-used chart that they might not even carry otherwise.

      The other side of this is that paper charts are falling into such disuse that they're becoming harder to even come by.

    75. Re:Wow ... by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 2

      Emergency procedure checklists are still on hard-copy in the cockpit. Flight books (and EFBs) are for routine operations and include things like the flight path, loading and fuel, PAX & cargo manifest, approach & landing procedures for destination, alternate, and en-route airports, en-route weather forecasts, and so on.

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    76. Re:Wow ... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      So triple redundancy isn't good enough? The aircraft system that fails, then two separate electronic copies of the "how to" manual? (And lets not forget the systems knowledge of the two pilots which they are required to know to be type rated.)

      I'll bet that a hard copy of the aircraft flight manual is in the cockpit anyway. It's not that heavy (compared to the bookshelf full of maps) and not that big.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    77. Re:Wow ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I disagree with Unix systems of the time not being better than Windows NT. They were in many ways. Whether or not they were worth the additional expense is another question.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    78. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ah. they now just use the space to do chemtrails

    79. Re:Wow ... by bluegutang · · Score: 1

      They should make one bring an iPhone and the other an Android.
      And a couple hundred pages of the "most crucial" information in hard copy.

    80. Re:Wow ... by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      They wouldn't have to worry about the iPads failing a second time after they left the gate again if they went with the books at that point.

    81. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was noticed. Was it acted on?

    82. Re:Wow ... by gnupun · · Score: 1

      In this case, a badly written app (or piece of data) crashed a bunch of iPads.

      Sorry, there's a big difference between "apps crashed a bunch of iPads (including iOS)" and "apps crashed (but did not crash iOS)." In this case, the latter happened, so it's only the fault of inhouse app developers who typically produce shitty code anyway. The former case is extremely rare since it's difficult for some app to crash a stable OS like iOS.

    83. Re:Wow ... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Honestly, the Apple-ness of this is completely irrelevant, and you know damned well it is.

      Actually it's entirely relevant.

      An application took down the entire OS. This is exactly the thing we derided Microsoft for allowing for so long. I've been working with Android, including some very dodgy hacked versions for my Motorola Milestone and I've never had an application crash the OS. Sure applications have crashed but that would be back to the home screen (androids version of a crash to desktop) but never had it take down the entire OS. Even in modern Windows it's very hard for an application to cause the OS to reboot.

      So first off, it demonstrates the application was not properly sandboxed by the OS.

      Secondly, I thought this was exactly the kind of thing Apple's "well curated" walled garden is meant to prevent.

      So not only is it difficult for the same thing to happen on Windows, Linux or Android, but Apple is supposed to have extra protection against this kind of thing.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    84. Re:Wow ... by AntiSol · · Score: 1

      I took "consumer technology" to mean "consumer-grade technology", which most certainly could include the app, regardless of how limited its userbase is - my intepretation was that (s)he was talking about quality, not public availability.

      If you read the article, you'll see that:

      When a new version of a runway map for Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport was distributed, it conflicted with an older version of the map stored on some pilots’ iPads

      and:

      pilots have been notified how to fix the bug, by deleting the app and re-installing it

      That, right there, is consumer-grade technology and a consumer-grade fix. As opposed to well-thought-out, well-tested technology with failsafes and whatnot.

      The article also says that the ipads "powered down", which would seem to indicate an issue with the consumer-grade hardware, too (assuming that's actually what happened).

    85. Re:Wow ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Do you really want to entrust your life to a pilot who is so unhealthy they can't even pull around a wheelie bag weighing 35 pounds?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    86. Re:Wow ... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      The legacy Unix system, was expensive due to the fact that it required high end hardware. NT would run on your consumer PC as well. So Unix systems did work better because of the whole architecture not just the OS.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    87. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is, though.

      Some stupid idiot fanboy high up in the IT chain probably forced them to use this solution. We're in the same position: our sales software is on i pad, but our CRM is Internet Explorer ONLY. It's been over a year since the rollout and the situation is "being worked on". OR THEY COULD HAVE USED WINDOWS since everyone already has a laptop as that's what our previous software was written on?

      The better solution would have been a PDF file they could have even opened up on their smartphones... or an e-ink display, so you would would have to charge the damn thing every few hours.

      So yes, it was a terrible decision to begin with.

    88. Re:Wow ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They said the document only changes every 56 days, I assume they're updating the tablets more frequently than that, in fact they should be doing it every time they land. Which means that, if an update fails, rolling back to the previous version should be fairly safe, especially since once they have a working device, they can check for updates.
      So why not keep a thumb drive in the cockpit and build a one-click option for them to restore the tablet, OS and all.
      Better yet, have them turn in their cockpit thumb drive when they land, and on the next flight, pick up a new one that's been refreshed in bulk somewhere. Implementation cost is minimal - they travel along existing paperwork channels.
      Even better than that, build a smart update notification system that can let the pilots know when there's been an update and they need to swap thumb drives...cuts down the traffic.
      Where do I send my bill?

    89. Re:Wow ... by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      Honestly, the Apple-ness of this is completely irrelevant, and you know damned well it is.

      Actually it's entirely relevant.

      An application took down the entire OS. This is exactly the thing we derided Microsoft for allowing for so long. I've been working with Android, including some very dodgy hacked versions for my Motorola Milestone and I've never had an application crash the OS. Sure applications have crashed but that would be back to the home screen (androids version of a crash to desktop) but never had it take down the entire OS. Even in modern Windows it's very hard for an application to cause the OS to reboot.

      So first off, it demonstrates the application was not properly sandboxed by the OS.

      Secondly, I thought this was exactly the kind of thing Apple's "well curated" walled garden is meant to prevent.

      So not only is it difficult for the same thing to happen on Windows, Linux or Android, but Apple is supposed to have extra protection against this kind of thing.

      Get back on your meds please.

      "No flights were canceled, and pilots have been notified how to fix the bug, by deleting the app and re-installing it. Apple said it had confirmed that the iPads’ own hardware and operating system did not crash, and that the issue was with the Jeppesen app."

    90. Re:Wow ... by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      Interesting. Thanks. But the entire fleet was not down, only several dozen. The ipads "powered down unexpectedly", not the type of behavior you expect from changes to a document data change, but a very common problem when an app or OS has been updated or changed in some manner.

      You're right, it was just dozens - I misremembered the article. But they all appeared to be at the same time. You can't do auto update on the OS itself, though an app update could happen automatically. But supposedly they could not get the iPads to work at all without reconnecting to the airport WiFi network. That doesn't make much sense for any kind of update.

      The fix mentioned in the article was deleting and reinstalling the app, so that's probably got to do with it. It's a big app?

    91. Re:Wow ... by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      Divide by zero causes the same problem on all OSes AFAIK.

      Then the damn OS shouldn't allow it!

      Is that geek version of "Please move the deer crossing"?

    92. Re:Wow ... by lars_stefan_axelsson · · Score: 1

      The legacy Unix system, was expensive due to the fact that it required high end hardware. NT would run on your consumer PC as well. So Unix systems did work better because of the whole architecture not just the OS.

      Nope. It was just worse. When I was in telecoms we tried to build a "router" (big iron) on our own custom hardware, with full vendor support (as in source code if we wanted it), based on windows NT instead of Solaris. (And of course we built the hardware to suit the OS/application. Not the other way around).

      Crashed and burned leaving not as much as a flake of soot behind. Couldn't be done. What the Redmond people told us turned out to be simply not true as in "didn't work the way it was documented to work". And nothing much else worked either.

      So, building on VAX/VMS worked. Industrial strength. Building on Unix/Solaris (and a few others), worked as well. Also industrial strength. WIndows NT. Not even close.

      Today it's based on. You guessed it; Linux.

      .

      --
      Stefan Axelsson
  4. Someone built one of these by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    to create the no IOS zone. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...

  5. I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How much does this little accidental thing cost the airline overall? How often can they afford this before it eclipses the savings? Go on, do tell.

    1. Re:I wonder by g0bshiTe · · Score: 2

      Eternally, they learned from TSA and all the shit we put up with to fly that we'll take anything they throw and do little more than grumble about it.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    2. Re:I wonder by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      According to *just* American Airlines, eFlight books save $1.2 million per year.

      http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/pressr...

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    3. Re: I wonder by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Which does not include the time that the pilots put in maintaining the books, or making sure that the pilot has most up-to-date NOTAM ( which being behind has caused accidents ).

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re: I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is that, but as (private) pilot myself I liked the fact that maintaining the books and NOTAMs manually forced me to at least be aware that they existed (even if it didn't necessarily force me to read the whole thing). If something is auto-updating, I'm blissfully unaware of such changes unless and until I go look something up. (Which of course I should, as part of planning a flight, but...)

    5. Re: I wonder by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      Airlines hire people *just* to make sure that the paperwork is always updated. For every flight book, which is different for every single plane. Now only a few people have to make sure the pdfs are up to date.

      That's a significant additional savings on top of the fuel savings.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    6. Re:I wonder by gnupun · · Score: 1

      Why exactly do they need a special app to access these documents? Can't they just store them as PDFs and use some standard viewer, like Safari (at least as a backup app)?

    7. Re:I wonder by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      No idea. My guess would be to have developer jobs.

      Seems like synchronizing the iBooks app for everyone would work perfectly.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  6. Before we start blaming or laughing at Apple... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Let's see these AA iPads and the software for what they really are: pieces of business-critical software / hardware. Which means that they have to treat it like any other combination of business critical software and hardware. The entire configuration is frozen, software, OS, patches and all, and any change is thoroughly tested before it is pushed to the production devices.

    So what happened? One news item hints at a recent update causing the issue. Where did the update come from? Was iOS updated, or the app? Was this update tested before being rolled out?

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    1. Re:Before we start blaming or laughing at Apple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about not using consumer electronics for mission critical functions. Particularly something as weak as an ipad where there are military grade tablets available. Better yet, stick to the fucking paper manual that doesn't need wifi or constant power.

      Whoever pushed for ipads in this situations needs firing. Another typical myopic Apple zealot pushing their prefered brand's products into places they have no fucking right to be.

    2. Re:Before we start blaming or laughing at Apple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What do you think is "weak" about an iPad for the airline's needs?

      Their needs were something stable, light, and easily read. The iPad meets all of those goals (yes, including stability, it was AA's own app that crashed).

    3. Re:Before we start blaming or laughing at Apple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is great, until you have a problem like iOS has where a rogue wi-fi hotspot can throw it into an unrecoverable reboot cycle.

      Since apparently they can't just disable wi-fi (they need to get updated information to the iPads) and merely being in range on the rogue wi-fi hotspot sends Apple devices into a reboot cycle, you HAVE to update the OS as soon as the patch is out.

      Of course, Apple still hasn't acknowledged that particular flaw let alone fixed it, but the point stands: there are times when you have to update without adequate testing because the known stability with the update beats the known security flaw without it.

      (Or: why maybe paper flight plans weren't that bad an idea to begin with.)

    4. Re:Before we start blaming or laughing at Apple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rant on dude.

      Meanwhile, they're saving >$1M per year in fuel costs alone.

      A few flight delays don't add up to that.

    5. Re:Before we start blaming or laughing at Apple... by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      Let's see these AA iPads and the software for what they really are: pieces of business-critical software / hardware. Which means that they have to treat it like any other combination of business critical software and hardware. The entire configuration is frozen, software, OS, patches and all, and any change is thoroughly tested before it is pushed to the production devices.

      So what happened? One news item hints at a recent update causing the issue. Where did the update come from? Was iOS updated, or the app? Was this update tested before being rolled out?

      They can't freeze the configuration unless they freeze all the airports. These devices carry maps. Maps need to be updated all the time.

      What happened here wasn't that an update caused a problem. What happened was that two iPads in a cockpit didn't manage to receive an update that they should have received, so they had to take the iPads into the airport, and the data update worked just fine. Obviously this took time, so the flight got delayed.

    6. Re:Before we start blaming or laughing at Apple... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It was probably an update for Angry Birds. Pilots get bored on long flights.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Before we start blaming or laughing at Apple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is business critical - a failure costs money?. Clearly that is far less important than safety critical when human lives may be at risk.

  7. cost recoup by ftobin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder how long it takes to recoup the cost of this disruption by continuing to carry lighter manuals.

    1. Re:cost recoup by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Flights get cancelled all of the time. It's just part of the business. Flights get cancelled by computer glitches all of the time as well, yet you don't see the airlines going back to the pre-punch card tickets. Despite what some posters around here would like you to believe, computers screw up. But we still keep them.

      I guess it's like a dysfunctional relationship. We're codependent.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:cost recoup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regardless, it is a cost right? Nice long post that ignores the poster's point.

  8. Should not used apple for some thing like this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Should not used apple for some thing like this. Some that does not have the app store lock in / hidden / hard to turn off calling home in the background / maybe some kind of call home DRM / some what forced auto updates.

    1. Re:Should not used apple for some thing like this by LDAPMAN · · Score: 1

      Your being a complete moron..
      These iPads are managed completely by AA. They do NOT connect to the app store. The OS, the apps, and the data come from AA servers. Any forced updates or DRM are managed by AA.

  9. Why do they not have the paper as backup? by timrod · · Score: 2

    What I'm wondering is what would have happened had this iPad crash occurred during the flight post-takeoff. Why do they not carry the paper manuals as a backup in case this sort of thing happens?

    1. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by davidwr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Weight.

      --
      Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    2. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm, that would defeat the whole purpose of using them. Reduced weight of not carrying paper means less fuel, more savings.
      If you carry the paper as a backup, then why bother as there will be no savings in fuel or paper.

    3. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      If you're going to carry the 35lbs of paper maps anyway, why not save some money and not have the iPad? The maps aren't going to crash on you after all.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    4. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by technomom · · Score: 1

      or just carry some pdfs on a netbook if the weight is a concern?

    5. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      What I'm wondering is what would have happened had this iPad crash occurred during the flight post-takeoff. Why do they not carry the paper manuals as a backup in case this sort of thing happens?

      Most airlines keep a paper copy of the flight kit in the cockpit. The idea of tablets is so pilots no longer have to carry around 35lb flight bags. I find it hard to believe that American didn't have a backup hardcopy onboard.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    6. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by houghi · · Score: 1

      Perhaps not paper, but why not have an Android and an iPhone version? e.g. Pilot has the iPhone and co-pilot has the Android.

      That way not a lot of extra weight is added and there is redundancy.

      Obviously updates never should be done at the same time, but with at least one week in between each of them.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    7. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by DogShoes · · Score: 0

      Absolutely nothing would happen in flight. It has nothing to with in-flight operation. In flight they only need it when the plane is broken, and we all know they can't fly broken planes anymore anyway...the "black bags" were all filled with porn magazines anyway.

      As to why no paper, 6700 flight per day x 32 Kg = 35,570 metric TONS of useless weight flying around.

      Its a business, sweetie-pie. Wasted weight = wasted fuel or lost capacity.

    8. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The maximum landing weight for a 747 is well over 500,000 lbs. 35 lbs of paper manuals is 0.0007% of the maximum weight. Heck, the maximum landing weight of a very small 737 is 110,000 lbs, of which 35 lbs is 0.031% of the maximum weight. I know airlines are hurting to try to squeeze in as much paying weight as they can, but just about anything is worth worrying about more than the *manuals*.

    9. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by DogShoes · · Score: 0

      As to why no paper, 6700 flight per day x 32 Kg = 35,570 metric TONS of useless weight flying around.

      35,570 metric tons PER YEAR [ sorry ]

    10. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by bobbied · · Score: 1

      What I'm wondering is what would have happened had this iPad crash occurred during the flight post-takeoff. Why do they not carry the paper manuals as a backup in case this sort of thing happens?

      Then.... The ground based controllers will be forced to assist the pilots in navigation to the destination and unless the weather is below VFR minimums, nothing changes for the flight. IF the destination is under IFR rules, then the flight might be forced to divert because they don't have the minimum necessary equipment to do an IFR approach (i.e. a copy of the approach plate) available.

      Actually, for most of these pilots, they've flown the same route multiple times in the last few weeks anyway. Likely they know all the frequencies, airways and procedures by heart already. So the only real way anything changes is if the destination is IFR, not that they couldn't fly the approach, but that they don't legally meet the requirements to do so without the maps in hand.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    11. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weight.

      On an airliner that carries hundreds of people and tons of luggage, supplies, and fuel et al. Yes indeed, using ipads is certainly going to make a difference. Merely taking a shit before take-off would be more effective.

    12. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by j2.718ff · · Score: 1

      Umm, that would defeat the whole purpose of using them. Reduced weight of not carrying paper means less fuel, more savings.
      If you carry the paper as a backup, then why bother as there will be no savings in fuel or paper.

      So before the iPad, did they have a single paper copy? Or did they have more than one, for backup purposes? If they had multiple copies, then replacing all except one with an iPad would be a valid way to save weight, but still have a reliable backup.

    13. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So millions of dollars a year in fuel savings isn't worth worrying about?

    14. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by ShaunC · · Score: 2

      You have to consider scale. In the 1980s, American saved $100,000 a year by removing one olive from each salad they served on their flights. One olive is no big deal, but across their entire operation, the savings added up.

      American says they operate 6,700 flights per day or around 2.5 million per year. If they remove 40 lbs of dead tree manuals from each flight, that's 100 million pounds of cargo they aren't paying to carry around every year.

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
    15. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by MitchDev · · Score: 0

      They are taking a shit, a piece of Apple shit

    16. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Megane · · Score: 1

      Also, it's the pilots themselves that carry this weight around when they get on and off of the plane. Do you like the idea of shlepping around a 35lb bag full of books in addition to a travel bag every day at your work?

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    17. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have to consider scale. In the 1980s, American saved $100,000 a year by removing one olive from each salad they served on their flights. One olive is no big deal, but across their entire operation, the savings added up.

      American says they operate 6,700 flights per day or around 2.5 million per year. If they remove 40 lbs of dead tree manuals from each flight, that's 100 million pounds of cargo they aren't paying to carry around every year.

      I don't buy this at all, it isn't like the airlines calculate fuel so well that they are taking into account the weight of a single or likely even the entire jar of olives. Just based on how long you have to wait in taxi for takeoff with delays on the runway you are burning fuel that far exceed the fuel needed to transport said olive over the entire flight. Furthermore, the airline doesn't have any idea how much the plane is going to weight prior to boarding so I don't think you can say they are saving any amount of fuel by taking 35lbs of paper charts off the plane, what if everyone on the flight just had a big meal prior to boarding on a 747 flight that could be 500 - 1000 lbs of additional weight in undigested food. I don't think you can say that these 35lbs of charts matter at all. While I agree that a digital copy is likely far more useful moment to moment keeping a single paper copy or a USB drive with PDFs and a nice ultrabook if you think that the weight matters would probably a reasonable idea as a backup.

    18. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Might want to try reading the article? The whole reason for switching to iPads was to save the weight of the (constantly changing) paper flight plans and stuff.

    19. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by ShaunC · · Score: 1

      I don't buy this at all, it isn't like the airlines calculate fuel so well that they are taking into account the weight of a single or likely even the entire jar of olives.

      It wasn't the weight of the olives, it was the scale and sheer cost. One olive seems like a pittance, inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. But when you fly many thousands of flights with several pax being served salads on each flight (this was the 80s after all) that one olive per salad turns into $100,000. In the 80s, that paid a captain for a year. Now it would probably pay two, but I digress.

      Furthermore, the airline doesn't have any idea how much the plane is going to weight prior to boarding so I don't think you can say they are saving any amount of fuel by taking 35lbs of paper charts off the plane, what if everyone on the flight just had a big meal prior to boarding on a 747 flight that could be 500 - 1000 lbs of additional weight in undigested food.

      You're intentionally distracting from the point. Passenger weight will fluctuate whether paper manuals are on board or not. The weight of the POH and other documents is a known quantity; the airline does know, at least in approximation, how much the dead-tree manuals and a big book of Jepp charts weigh. Eliminate that weight and you will see savings through the fleet. Passenger weight is going to vary whether you're going with paper manuals, AA's app, Foreflight, or some guy who thinks God is his F/O.

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
    20. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect that the cost savings associated with olives pertained to the cost of acquisition per olive rather than the fuel used to transport each olive...

    21. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      100 million pounds of cargo they aren't paying to carry around every year.

      Along with that, it's 100,000,000 lbs of cargo they could charge someone else for.

      AA Source

    22. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, for most of these pilots, they've flown the same route multiple times in the last few weeks anyway. Likely they know all the frequencies, airways and procedures by heart already. So the only real way anything changes is if the destination is IFR, ... or they need to vector around thunderstorm cells, or (some places) volcano plumes, or to keep clear of a temporary airspace change (Air Force One flight, for example), or the destination airport closes temporarily because some other flight did a too-hard landing, or they have an in-flight emergency (anything from mechanical failure to a passenger having a heart attack or getting violent) and need to divert, or...

      But you get the idea.

    23. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Now you left me trying to imagine what it is like to carry 35 pounds of shit inside you.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    24. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      What I'm wondering is what would have happened had this iPad crash occurred during the flight post-takeoff. Why do they not carry the paper manuals as a backup in case this sort of thing happens?

      Nothing would have happened. The pilot knows how to take off from A. And he knows how to land at B. However, due to unforeseen circumstances, he might not be able to land at B but might get redirected to any of a large number of airports. And for that, he has this huge set of maps that describe exactly how to start/land at each of those airports.

    25. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a much more likely and reasonable explanation.

      Else airlines would start weighing their passengers. After all, if 35 lbs is going to save them a million dollars, you would think they'd want to charge quite a bit extra for even a slightly overweight passenger (even if they fit comfortably into a single seat).

    26. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you take 35lb shits, you really need to go on a diet.

    27. Re:Why do they not have the paper as backup? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I suspect this was not an OS problem, so having more than one OS would be useless here.

      Further, having an android and an iPad version would mean certifying two pieces of flight-ready equipment the FAA would need to approve, and Apple tends to be more stable than the Android competition.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    28. Re: Why do they not have the paper as backup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surely the flaw in this whole plan is that, when the pilots stop having to lug around a 35lb bag of books, they will not be getting as much exercise and will each put on weight, cancelling out the cost savings.

  10. Crash before takeoff? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's an app for that.

  11. Needs some thing with an SD card / boot from SD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Needs some thing with an SD card / boot from SD so you can have an easy backup that does not need an outside network / system to switch to.

  12. Should have a failsafe by davidwr · · Score: 1

    A "no radio" device that has reasonably current copies of everything plus paper (yes, paper) copies of updated pages would weigh less than a pound and would be usage as a backup.

    For further redundancy the backup should use a completely different OS.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re: Should have a failsafe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... And different app code ... Written in a clean room. From closely written, tight specifications. With perfect QA. And MISRA C, not what Toyota uses in their EMS and braking systems.

      Yeah.

    2. Re:Should have a failsafe by bobbied · · Score: 1

      A "no radio" device that has reasonably current copies of everything plus paper (yes, paper) copies of updated pages would weigh less than a pound and would be usage as a backup.

      For further redundancy the backup should use a completely different OS.

      Why all this trouble? Just test to make sure you have the maps in each of the two I-Pads, that they are current and you can access them before you kick the tires and light the fires...

      This check is performed AFTER the update process is completed and the IPad is disconnected from EVERYTHING and BEFORE you push back from the gate. What happened was one or both of the redundant IPads was messed up and they couldn't get the application to run, so they stayed on the ground. Seems pretty much the safe way to do it.

      Your idea, where it has merit, is pointless. Just verify that both map sources are working before flight and you are good to go. Seems perfectly safe to me to use just one operating system/application for this if you disconnect them and test to make sure you have access to what you need for the flight in question.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  13. as an executive maybe i can clarify. by nimbius · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here at american, we know you've come to expect the broken traytables, rotted seatback pockets, and permanently reclined seating prominently featured on our aging reagan-era Boeing fleet. We know none of you understand what the hell a gold line american star alliance partner is, but are well aware it means you're about to board a 42 seat brazillian rust-bucket with misaligned landing wheels and a weird styrofoam smell. Each year we add more rare earth metals and precious gems to our flight upgrade programs in an in incorrigible effort to confuse and infuriate weary passengers. What is Americium? Shouldnt platinum be more worthy than sapphire? who knows, who cares. We recognize your supreme discomfort at 4 AM as our cancelled connector to newark hobbles mercifully into the hanger for 20 years of well-earned repair to be condensed into 9 minutes of speed tape and air fresheners. We know you choose American because our 35 year old concourse seating has gone from suede to patent leather from use, and its foam long since evaporated to a fine haze of formaldehyde. And we, American, appreciate your undying commitment to sit in an airplane that smells canned soup and farts while futile attempts to adjust your weight merely prolong your encounter with the threadbare frame of a seat no more comfortable than a bus stop bench. But we cannot sacrifice our commitment to swiping, clicking, and tapping on a device that makes our second hand aeroflot cockpits look like modern museums to supercomputing and hence have cancelled numerous flights.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  14. New catchphase Re: Shoulda run Linux by davidwr · · Score: 2

    "Yes, but does it fly Linux?"

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:New catchphase Re: Shoulda run Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's practically just a big toaster. Of course it flies Linux.

  15. App mania by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now I get it. A touchpad instead of a bulky set of manuals. Makes a hell of a lot of sense.

    Since the content is pretty static, just take two with you, in case you have one (hardware) failure. Even three will be lighter than the whole bunch of (paper) manuals by a long stretch.

    But... can anyone in the know explain to me why it is necessary to develop an "app" to search through a bunch of electronic manuals? Aren't there any? Hopefully bundled with the basic OS distribution?

  16. Why such crap? by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What do they put on it? Checklists? Airport charts? Or even approach/departure charts? What if it crashes during taxiing on a busy airport? What if it crashes in the middle of a complicated approach procedure? What if it crashes during checklist and the pilots forget to check a point?

    In other words: Why would anyone use cheap crap such as an iPad in a professional passenger airplane? How stupid is that?

    1. Re:Why such crap? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you have a better and more reliable tablet system in mind, or are you suggesting that they should have stuck with the 35-pound suitcases full of printed material?

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:Why such crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Do you have a better and more reliable tablet system in mind, or are you suggesting that they should have stuck with the 35-pound suitcases full of printed material?

      In all the decades of recorded flight, not once have printed material "crashed" due to a stupid software glitch.

    3. Re:Why such crap? by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      The problem is in using an app. The documents should be downloaded directly to the device and stored there for easy retrieval. But as I replied in another post, most airlines from what I understand keep a backup paper copy of the kit onboard the aircraft.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    4. Re:Why such crap? by m.alessandrini · · Score: 1

      Of course I'm not an expert, but a plane already has tens of mission-critical computers in the cockpit. Why not use them?

    5. Re:Why such crap? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      yes, a netbook running a locked down version of linux, with NO update ability, signed binaries and (to be even more sure) put the os in ROM. require some kind of key to do any writes at all to it. have dual sections of rom for redundancy and crc check them; if one is bad, switch to the other.

      I could have designed and built a system in probaby 1/10 the time it took for them to PAY OFF APPLE and buy those shiny shitslates.

      they used consumer grade 'auto updatable' fashon accessories for mission critical things. someone should TRULY be shamed and fired for this. (I know I would be if it was my design; I've been fired over much less than that, to be honest.)

      but we won't see anyone admit it was a bad idea or bad design. never admit you were wrong! its the new american way!! in fact, if you are wrong, the current idea is to 'double down on your derp' (to use the parlance of our times).

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    6. Re:Why such crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds like it just replaces a bunch of manuals and books that can be referenced when the pilot needs to check something. A crash during taxi would probably result in a slight delay as the pilot had to ask flight control a question. The app would not even be used during a complicated approach, unless pilots are regularly landing planes with books open on their lap telling them how to do it.

    7. Re:Why such crap? by Hamfist · · Score: 1

      Here's the wikipedia reference if you want to understand more about what is actually going on. The answers to your questions are pretty easy to find.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...

      It's fairly clear the critical flight operations are not allowed to be carried out on those devices. Once reading that article, does it change your perspective? This seems like 'something didn't work right, people were inconvenienced' and 'American should do a better job of QA and change management'

    8. Re:Why such crap? by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      Do you have a better and more reliable tablet system in mind, or are you suggesting that they should have stuck with the 35-pound suitcases full of printed material?

      Why is presenting a false dichotomy modded up as "insightful"??

      Why not just have a BACKUP system of any sort? As noted by a number of other comments on this thread, what about a netbook with PDFs? Weighs 2 pounds, not 35. (And, for extra security, one could lock it down in various ways to ensure it is stable.)

      This isn't an just an Apple issue. It's a simple fact that consumer-grade devices require redundancy. What if the iPad's battery is dead, or it ends up corrupted, or somebody drops the darn thing and it breaks??

      Unless there's a massive fire or flood (and that would mean bigger problems on a plane in flight), your printed material is not going to "fail" spontaneously.

      Consumer electronics do. You need a backup system. It doesn't mean you need to cart a suitcase of printed manuals -- it means you need SOME FORM of backup system.

      I give visual presentations all the time. I generally have at least four ways to be able to use my presentation just in case something fails (1 - presentation on my computer, 2 - presentation on USB to load to another computer, 3 - presentation available through email or something just in case, 4 - presentation in PDF form in case other computer doesn't work well with whatever presentation software I'm using, or fonts don't load right, or whatever).

      You, on the other hand, seem to imply that I just bring my presentation on my computer, and if it fails, my only other option would be to pack a separate overhead projector in my suitcase along with a bunch of printed transparencies or slides. There are plenty other convenient common-sense scenarios in-between that could create reasonable levels of redundancy.

    9. Re:Why such crap? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I could have designed and built a system in probaby 1/10 the time it took for them to PAY OFF APPLE and buy those shiny shitslates.

      they used consumer grade 'auto updatable' fashon accessories for mission critical things

      Horseshit. You are completely talking out of your ass.

      Because they sure as shit didn't do this without approval from the FAA:

      The iPad has been used in General Aviation in conjunction with its paper backup counterpart, which is mandated by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). There are many applications available which include everything that would be on the paper charts plus aviation tools including navigation charts, taxi procedures, weather maps, GPS, Minimum Equipment List, Company Policy Manual, Federal Aviation Regulations and flight controls. Although these tools have been used in the private sector, the use of the iPad in commercial aviation is just taking flight.

      The Federal Aviation Administration finished a three-month testing project which included putting the device thru adverse conditions such as rapid decompression testing and tests to make sure the tablet did not interfere with the avionic equipment. Early in 2011 the FAA authorized charter company Executive Jet Management to use iPad records without the backup paper charts.[1] This helps make way for the iPad to become an aviation instrument for the rest of the industry. Alaskan Airlines,[2] Delta Air Lines,[2] and American Airlines[3] planned test programs.

      Why must everybody on Slashdot keep acting like they could whip up a half-assed solution in a week, or that regulated industries just make shit up as they go?

      The reality is, this has not a fucking thing to do with paying off Apple or a hastily thrown together solution.

      This sounds entirely like an update from the vendor was poorly tested. In which case, they have some lessons to learn about working in that industry -- which is about as risk averse as you can get. Precisely because the FAA holds them to a very high standard.

      But, hey, don't let reality get in the way of your claims you could do a better job in your pajamas.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    10. Re:Why such crap? by maestroX · · Score: 1, Troll

      Do you have a better and more reliable tablet system in mind, or are you suggesting that they should have stuck with the 35-pound suitcases full of printed material?

      It takes less than 1 mins of googling for rugged laptop/tablet or whatever, and I'm not even qualified to make such as decision.
      (e.g. panasonic toughtablet)
      something pretty vital to ops should have had more consideration than guessing a popular consumer item will do.
      What the fuck are they thinking when replacing critical units?

    11. Re:Why such crap? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Funny

      I blame this mind set on the Avenger movies. If Scarlet Johansson can save the world in while running around in spandex underwear, your average Slashdot coder should be able to outperform a couple dozen programmers, managers and QA staff with just a six pack of Mountain Dew and a jumbo bag of Doritos.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    12. Re:Why such crap? by kaiser423 · · Score: 2

      No, but mis-printed pages, illegible pages, pages falling out of binders, getting out of order, having coffee spilled on them, etc. all have happened. My guess is that the incidence rate might actually be lower with iPads. Printing 35lbs of paper for each and every flight of which there are thousands of a day, which is different for each and every flight is not something that happens error free. In fact, it's something that absolutely screams automation and computer-based workflow. I've seen numerous bad flight books, or having to rush new flightbooks to the plane because the other ones were wrong. I bet that the total incidence rate is lower with the iPad version. It's just that this makes news.

    13. Re:Why such crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In all the decades of recorded flight, not once have printed material "crashed" due to a stupid software glitch.

      In all the decades of recorded history, not once has a man walking to his destination caught fire and broke up, scattering pieces of himself across a several mile area.

      Or to be more polite:

      The fuck you doing on Slashdot, you creepy ass luddite?

    14. Re:Why such crap? by ghjm · · Score: 1

      Several vendors make dedicated EFB devices. They're a lot more expensive, though, and their UI is generally awful.

    15. Re:Why such crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FAA approval does not rule out that it was stupid.

    16. Re:Why such crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      heh... picture me here posting a youtube clip of the bit from "jurassic park" when the big tubby programmer (who's scamming to steal some dinosaur embyros from the park) going, paraphrasing, "hey you wanna find another guy who can debug two million lines of code by himself for a lower bid, be my guest." (just too lazy to go find it)

    17. Re:Why such crap? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      A netbook with PDFs would have to be FAA-certified, and then it would be necessary to keep two different types of devices updated and in sync. It's easier to certify an iPad and app, and carry multiple iPads onto the plane. That's redundancy. You can trust the FAA to have conducted extensive tests to make sure it's reliable under flight conditions, because that's the sort of thing they do.

      This is also not life-threatening. Cut the iPads off from all external input, turn them on in the cockpit, and check them. If there's a problem, deal with it before taking off. The flight may be delayed, but that's a cost the airline is prepared to accept.

      Your solution means that the pilots may wind up using something that doesn't work right, which is not an idea the FAA is really fond of.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    18. Re:Why such crap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because I bet your ass on being able to find the runway in the weather, even if an electrical problem disables the primary instruments. The backup instruments are, very deliberately, primitive. In fact, on some jets, they're still pneumatic so that they'll still work even if the main DC busses both melt. So yeah, I want something separate from the flight deck instrumentation. Now, I'm a luddite, and I still obstinately print an ILS or two and the preffered STAR for my primary destination, but yeah, ditching 35 Lbs of paper, most of which I only read the cover to make sure I have the current book, was a good move.

    19. Re:Why such crap? by dissy · · Score: 1

      Why would anyone use cheap crap such as an iPad in a professional passenger airplane? How stupid is that?

      For the same reason, and just as stupid, as using any other tablet such as Android or Surface, or even the original paper books.

      In other words, your solution (which ever one it may be) has the exact same problem as iPad, so is a broken stupid solution.

      Yes even paper. If I ripped the pages out of the paper manual and replaced them with chewing gum and hardcore porn (aka a fight club styled update), the situation would remain the same and the plane just as grounded as now.

      Either beef up your trollskill some, or learn how to computer. You failed miserably at both.

    20. Re:Why such crap? by dissy · · Score: 1

      yes, a netbook running a locked down version of linux, with NO update ability, signed binaries and (to be even more sure) put the os in ROM. require some kind of key to do any writes at all to it. have dual sections of rom for redundancy and crc check them; if one is bad, switch to the other.

      OK, lets pretend that exact configuration is used.

      Now the airline manually signs and offline installs the updated manuals, resulting in the same exact breakage you see here, and in the same situation.

      Your solution just resulted in the grounding of the aircraft.
      Except your solution will take much much longer to install the fixed data back.

      The only real difference is now it is you personally and Linux that will unfairly and incorrectly get the blame instead of Apple.

  17. Maybe they are holding it wrong? by Ecuador · · Score: 1

    In seriousness now, I won't make fun of the part where they went for the vendor with the most posh consumer tablet, instead of having something customized for this job.
    But I am wondering, since it was just supposed to replace the paper manuals, why weren't those manuals the backup? Ok, don't carry them around all the time, but shouldn't they still be available as a backup to take them to the pilots if there is trouble with the ipads instead of just canceling the flight?

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
  18. It is a Jeppesen software failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Electronic Flight Bag (EFB) software is an essential tools for aviation. One iPad can handle multiple charts, maps, and devices which would can weight of more than 20 lbs. Jeppesen software is the American Airlines is the corporate EFB software. A recent update crashed. The Jeppesen tool is a well known company and has Aerospace level of testing. It still failed. There are other EFB tools out there. This has nothing to do with WiFi and everything to do with software development.

    1. Re:It is a Jeppesen software failure by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      This has nothing to do with WiFi and everything to do with software development.

      If such materials are so mission-critical that flights have been cancelled and planes required to return to get paper backups, why not just have an electronic backup system OF SOME SORT present? Why not even just have all your charts, maps, etc. in PDF form?

      Yeah, it's fun and all to have an app. I'm sure it has a cool interface that makes it easier or quicker to use. But the easy alternative to many pounds of paper books is a bunch of PDF files. Just because your one app crashes, why should you have to go to paper?

    2. Re:It is a Jeppesen software failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iPads have no app rollback features? Also, hopefully the flash in the iPads is sufficiently gamma burst tolerant to withstand the high altitude exposure to radiation caused by nearby lighting strikes.

  19. So no paper backup anymore? by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

    What happens if the iPrecious crashes mid flight? And if they do still have the old maps, why the delay? Who thought it was a bright idea to create cascading chaos in daily airtraffic just for pilot convenience?

    1. Re:So no paper backup anymore? by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      What happens if the iPrecious crashes mid flight? And if they do still have the old maps, why the delay? Who thought it was a bright idea to create cascading chaos in daily airtraffic just for pilot convenience

      If the iPad (I assume you were just trying to make a stupid joke there) crashes mid flight, you reboot it. Then you take the co-pilots iPad.

      The information is there in triplicate. Pilot's iPad. Co-pilot's iPad. Bag of papers. As a passenger, you are safe with one copy. The rules say that three copies must be there when the plane takes off, to guarantee that at least one is there when it is needed. The delay happened because there were no three complete and up-to-date copies.

    2. Re:So no paper backup anymore? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      If the iPad (I assume you were just trying to make a stupid joke there) crashes mid flight, you reboot it. Then you take the co-pilots iPad.

      Sigh,

      You've missed the point. The iCrud was crashing due to bad data. Lets ignore how bad the OS must be that a PDF file was making the OS reboot for a second and look at the fact that all the company issued iCruds will be identical.

      If one crashes due to a corrupt file, then the co-pilots will also crash. Its a massive single point of failure. This effectively grounded their entire 737 fleet.

      What the GP was saying is why isn't there a backup in a different format, even if it's electronic on a different device such as an Android or Windows. I think we all know the answer is cost savings.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  20. It just works by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Well, just about...

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  21. Quite an image actually by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

    I read the headline and envisioned several AA planes being slowly fed into a meat grinder.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    1. Re:Quite an image actually by neminem · · Score: 1

      That would be "grinds" (or "ground"), not "grounds".

    2. Re:Quite an image actually by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      You're the guy that tells children Santa isn't real and explains magic tricks to spoil the illusion aren't you?

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    3. Re:Quite an image actually by Megane · · Score: 1

      No, that would be "Crashing App Grinds Dozens of Flights to a Halt".

      The proper image should be of large copper cables attached between planes and large metal stakes in the ground.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    4. Re:Quite an image actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're the guy that thinks lying to children about the reality they try very hard to understand is a good idea.

      Just because you think it's cute, doesn't mean they appreciate being lied to, and many become very upset when they inevitably realise the truth, and effectively what you were doing to them.

    5. Re:Quite an image actually by mjwx · · Score: 1

      You're the guy that tells children Santa isn't real and explains magic tricks to spoil the illusion aren't you?

      You're the guy who tells children that Pacifcially and Yous are acceptable words aren't you?.

      Sure, his 10 yr old might not believe in the Easter bunny or be easily entertained by card tricks... But they can construct a sentence.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  22. Alternately... by tlambert · · Score: 1

    Just read and memorize the manuals so that it's not an issue.

    1. Re:Alternately... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Just read and memorize the manuals so that it's not an issue.

      Actually, for IFR flight the FAA regulations require that you have current approach plates in the cockpit for reference when flying IFR approaches. It's part of the "minimum equipment" required. So if you don't have them in hard or soft copy, you legally cannot fly the approach, even if you think you memorized the whole thing.

      In an emergency, ATC can assist you by providing the necessary information and then authorize you to fly the approach even if you don't have the maps, but you are going to have to answer some embarrassing questions once you get on the ground. What type of questions? Well, ones that will end an ATP's career if they don't have really good answers for, and "my dog ate my maps" or "I forgot to bring them" are NOT good answers but "Both I-Pads crashed in flight!" might just be enough to keep you out of trouble.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  23. Thank you by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 1

    But unfortunately, haters gonna hate, so many here are already spinning this as "POS Apple iPad crashed cause it suxors!" instead of the much more accurate "POS software update went bad and crashed the hardware".

    1. Re:Thank you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "suxors"? Did you copy and paste that old gem off your Myspace profile?

    2. Re:Thank you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm no hater, but it does seem like every time Apple has some serious issue, it's spun as someone else's fault, going back to the "holding it wrong" days, right up through the Fappening and this. At some point, Apple has to own up and fix things. People aren't going to buy the ruse forever.

  24. Injuries? by tquasar · · Score: 1

    "frequent injuries incurred by pilots from carrying heavy flight bags, and would also save time by making revisions electronically." Who makes this stuff up? I went hiking with a forty pound backpack. I forded streams and climbed over boulders as big as a car at elevations from six to nine thousand feet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    1. Re:Injuries? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I went hiking with a forty pound backpack.

      Whoop de doo.

      Ever seen a flight bag? It's like a giant attache case or briefcase, typically a couple feet long by a foot or so high by about 9" wide. The handles are on top, and the sides are rigid enough that the thing sits there like a box when the lids are open. You carry it in your hand, with your arm out at a slight angle so you're not banging your knees against it (hard sides, remember) when you walk. That's quite a bit different than a soft backpack snugged against your back with belts and straps to keep most of the weight on your hips.

      Not to mention that most of a pilot's time is spent sitting, not conditioning themselves for hikes through the mountains. And if you're talking high-time commercial airliner pilots, average age is probably about 45.

      (Yeah, these days they're likely to have their own wheels and extending handle, or be strapped to a cart with the rest of the pilot's luggage until they get to the plane.)

    2. Re:Injuries? by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Yep. The differences are that you are probably a lot fitter and younger than most experienced pilots. For example, 40 is considered young to be a 777 pilot.
      They have a sedentary job and they spend a lot of time away from home, living out of hotels/restaurants, which is also very not conducive to healthy eating or healthy lifestyle.
      Besides your backpack is a lot more ergonomically designed so far easier to tote than most pilots flightbags that I've seen. They are basically a wheelly suitcase.

    3. Re:Injuries? by tquasar · · Score: 1

      I get it. The pay is good but it must be difficult to have time with family and friends. I worked rotating shifts and was either at work or sleeping when most people would go out for dinner or a drink. A friend was a California Highway Patrol officer and spent his day living in his car.. His patrol area was very rural so there were not many places to eat .He had a difficult time maintaining his health and weight. I'm sixty five years old. .

  25. Apps! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    App causes apps to get apped!

    Apps!

  26. Im sure someone would have turned on a hotspot by bobjr94 · · Score: 1

    The captain could have asked someone to turn on their phones wifi hotspot for a minute, or done i himself if he knew how. Would have saved a trip back to the gate.

  27. It could be worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Usually, when I see the words "crash" and "airline" in the same sentence, I expect the news to be a bit more grim.

  28. Android, iOS, and Windows Atom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems reasonable to have three tablets on the flight deck, running iOS, Android, and Windows 8 for Atom. Critical OS problems are unlikely to impact all of them at once.

    1. Re:Android, iOS, and Windows Atom by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      And six engines, 4 wings and a half dozen pilots.

      Belt AND suspenders!

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Android, iOS, and Windows Atom by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      It seems reasonable to have three tablets on the flight deck, running iOS, Android, and Windows 8 for Atom.

      The app crashed, not the OS. So having multiple OSes may help in some situations, but not in this one. Some mission critical applications are implemented by two teams working independently. Since this app is basically just a PDF reader with a customized menu, that should not be difficult.

    3. Re:Android, iOS, and Windows Atom by HideyoshiJP · · Score: 1

      It's not that far fetched. I mean, all the electronic systems have physical backups.

    4. Re:Android, iOS, and Windows Atom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What PDF reader? Adobe, MuPDF, Evince, gv, etc. I am not sure how many unique source trees there are out there, but there are a lot of readers. Not all of them may be available on Android and/or iOS, but for a critical app like this American Airlines could do the convert.

    5. Re:Android, iOS, and Windows Atom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's replacing paper manuals then just use an Android tablet with an sd card holding all the manuals. Sounds like the app crashed and lost the data and needed to be resynced.

    6. Re:Android, iOS, and Windows Atom by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      On iOS, it's likely using Apple's DisplayPDF engine to render the PDFs; likely Adobe's engine to distill them in the first place. But since PDF is a standard, that doesn't really matter; they should just have set up the app such that the PDFs could be exported to a separate reader for display (even Safari would work) as well as pulled up in the app's own interface.

      I can empathize with their issues, having digitized a collection of tousands of PDF documents that need to be searchable -- iOS tends to run out of memory while doing this; I can't even load some individual PDFs in standard readers like iBooks without running out of memory. This however isn't due to the display engine or the distilling engine, but is due to memory handling in the UI, and how it decides to cache rendered pages for performance reasons.

      They could easily store all the documents in GoodReader and have none of these problems (but also have less functionality surrounding cross-references etc.).

  29. subject lines are dumb by Falos · · Score: 0, Troll

    So they knob-polish hundreds per ipad for a docviewer? This shit doesn't need to be online. It doesn't need to phone home. It doesn't need facetweet reddiblrgram integration. It doesn't need automatic updates. It doesn't need Access To Your Photos And Contacts. It doesn't need achievements. It doesn't need to stream to your youtube blog.

    It doesn't need any app-bricking shit. It doesn't even need any app-crashing shit, which is a harmless term that means "reboot and you're good".

    You don't need a $500 tablet to look at a fscking .txt, or even a pdf. Maybe then you could afford some redundancy. $100-200 for a second device? Or how about just the $1 for a second docviewer app.

    1. Re:subject lines are dumb by gnupun · · Score: 1

      All these problems could've been avoided if ios and android had simple file manager apps where you could store PDF files and use a regular PDF viewer to view docs. Instead, documents are embedded within apps or downloaded from the cloud creating easy points of failures in the custom viewer apps.

    2. Re:subject lines are dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if ios and android had simple file manager apps where you could store PDF files and use a regular PDF viewer to view docs.
      not sure if /s, been doing this on both for years with my books, like they could've been doing for years with their books

      /s or not, the reality stands that looking at a document has a two-figure price tag and few dependencies. Mostly "Does the battery have any juice left?"

      PS: Votes won't change that reality. Best argument is: The process fell apart because the process wanted Other Shit that was NOT looking at a document (see Doesn't Need in GP for examples of Other Shit - or I think parent mentioned some Other Random Shit too).

  30. Typical result outsourcing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The airline probably try to save some money by sending the work to a team in India or Ukraine that billed lots of hours in order to maximize their profits, but screwed up the actual software.

  31. The elephant can remember... by westlake · · Score: 1
    ... but the geek never forgets.

    Reminds me of a US naval ship being towed to shore because Windows NT crashed.

    In 1997, the ship in question was a test bed for the introduction of COTS technologies at sea. The Wikipedia essay on the Aegis Cruiser "Yorktown" kind of slides over the fact that the ship remained in active service until 2004 with no other significant Windows-related incidents. USS Yorktown (CG-48)

  32. good job by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    So they basically need to open a PDF file and the ipad crashed while doing it. That sounds about right. They should have gone with a cheaper and more stable Android tablet.

  33. These are not ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... the Angry Birds you were expecting.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  34. I thought portable electronic was not alowed? by 4wdloop · · Score: 1

    So they did not listen to the stewardess and see what happened! :-)

    --
    4wdloop
  35. Anything more controlled could be better by 4wdloop · · Score: 1

    Actually, a linux based "documentation reader" could have been more stable if designed with this single purpose in mind. At the least it could have been a closely controlled software environment (known, tested and not auto upgrading).

    But not just because it's LINUX.

    --
    4wdloop
  36. According to TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    their iPads went "black". It sounds more like an App crash.

    1. Re:According to TFA by michelcolman · · Score: 2

      Yes, because articles on the internet and in newspapers always only contain exactly correct details, no information ever gets lost, misunderstood, or altered in transmission. So if they say the screen was black, it couldn't possibly have been any other shade, and certainly could not have had any text on it, like an error message or something like that. Because journalists never get this kind of thing wrong.

      OK, back to reality. Since both the captain's and first officer's iPad "went black" (?) at the same time, and this in multiple airplanes, even after many months without this problem ever occuring in a rather large fleet of airplanes, I imagine this is probably some configuration error related to some sort of DRM, licence expiration or other kind of protection. I doubt multiple iPads would all "crash" at the same time. Maybe the database had an incorrect expiration date, for example. Must not let pilots fly with out of date charts, better give them no charts at all. That sort of thing. Wouldn't be the first time, I've had a few experiences like that in different airline companies.

      We've had an airbus grounded because a student pilot had messed with the on board clock, for example. The computers decided that the deadline for flap inspection had passed (based on the incorrect date set by the student) and refused to extend the flaps for take-off. Maintenance action was required before the plane could take off again.

  37. Reason for two different OSes by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Imagine what would happen if the most recent, well-tested update had a bug such that it would crash at a specific time.

    By having different OSes and different applications serving up the same data, the odds of such a bug on both the main and backup devices happening simultaneously are greatly reduced.

    I say "greatly reduced" instead of "eliminated" because different OSes may still use the same buggy source code (there's BSD- or similar-licensed code in many OSes and applications).

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Reason for two different OSes by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Well... There are ALWAYS brain dead hypotheticals we can come up with.

      Remember, we are talking about MAPS here. The loss or misplacement of a map in flight is not a life threatening event in its own right. Where it might be advisable to have separate backups for everything in an aircraft, there are just some things which are not worth the effort to worry too much about and in this case, your final line of defense is to fall back on ATC to assist you with the procedures.

      I think two separate, albeit identical, sources of this information is sufficient. The chances of a dual in-flight failure is going to be quite rare, and in those cases there is a viable backup sitting at the other end of the radio. A backup path that is actually trained in how to get lost pilots and their passengers on the ground safely.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  38. How critical are the ipads in flight? by klubar · · Score: 1

    The iPads aren't directly controlling any of the flight or navigation systems. If an ipad "crashed" in flight, it would be an inconvenience but not a major flight safety issue. The plane would continue to fly, and the pilots could navigate safely to an airport via ground control. All of the ipads crashing at one time might overload ground control, but not likely. Also, the flight waypoints are preloaded into the navigation computers prior to takeoff, so plane will continue on its flightpath with or without the ipad.

    I guess I'd be really scared when they start using the ipad for navigation, engine control or auto pilot. (Or perhaps, just for the inflight entertainment).

    1. Re:How critical are the ipads in flight? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      All true. Still, it would be unwise to take off without a set of charts. It would be like taking off with only one engine - there is no reason you couldn't do it (given enough runway), but the whole point of having the extra engine is so that you can afford to lose it.

    2. Re:How critical are the ipads in flight? by klubar · · Score: 1

      Agreed, taking off without charts is just dumb. I was more concerned about the iPad failing mid-flight.

    3. Re:How critical are the ipads in flight? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Agreed, taking off without charts is just dumb. I was more concerned about the iPad failing mid-flight.

      It still isn't a great situation. With comms you can always bug ATC to basically read you the info you need to create your own approach charts and such, and much of the info on charts is to reduce the load on communications anyway which is less of a concern in an emergency situation. However, it still creates an "emergency" in a situation where there wouldn't otherwise be one. Granted, it probably wouldn't be a full-on emergency most likely but an airliner full off passengers in instrument meteorological conditions without charts needs special handling.

      If you lost comms AND charts that would get messier. I imagine that the FMS probably has the more essential data in it as well. Certainly you could navigate to an airport in visual conditions and land there. If the FMS had frequencies in it you could also do an ILS approach I imagine, but it would make it harder to be certain you're following published procedures properly. The FMS is part of the avionics and is certified to a higher standard than an EFB.

  39. Crash! Crash! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The time you hear someone yelling "Crash! Crash!" on a plane, it better be an ipad app.

  40. Again it is confirmed by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    You should not use cheap commodity hardware/software in critical applications, ever. Pray to your favorite deity that you never find this junk down in the avionics bay.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  41. I think you might be even older than me by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

    Which means that they have to treat it like any other combination of business critical software and hardware. The entire configuration is frozen, software, OS, patches and all, and any change is thoroughly tested before it is pushed to the production devices.

    That's not agile.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  42. Real Airline Pilot Here (and computer engineer) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Guys, EFBs work pretty well in the cockpit. I've worked at two companies that use iPads with Jeppesen EFB software. Version control is critical for the OS and the Apps. It sounds like American didn't do proper acceptance testing of updates before telling their pilots to go ahead and update their apps or OS. Their OS/app configuration is not fundamentally different than hundreds of other airlines (yes, including "private" charter airlines that you never hear about). Some companies have better testing and configuration control than other companies.

    EFBs are not just used to replace an encyclopedia set of aircraft manuals, they also are used for calculations and immeasurable amounts of data logging. On these merits alone, iPads and other tablets have been quite a revolution in knowledge management.

    If I were to assign blame, here's the order of precedence:
    - App vendors for lousy software engineering practices resulting in slow performance, frequent crashes, and flawed updates to databases (Jeppesen, hear me???)
    - Apple. Yeah, iOS 7 and 8 have had nothing but problems. On my iPad 2 iOS 8 is slooooowwwww, crashes sometimes, and is ugly.
    - FAA. The FAA has a really messed up system where a specific region of the FAA has authority of their "district". (terminology not correct) These guys are called POIs or Principle Operations Inspectors (i think). Anyways, whatever they say, goes. One POI in CA may disallow something while a POI in NY may allow it. They each interpret rules differently. This is a MAJOR flaw that has led to asymmetric levels of safety across the FAA (e.g. 14 CFR Part 135 rest rules vs. 14 CFR Part 121 rest rules). Needless to say, the FAA is another big government monstrosity that is glacially slow to inform themselves of the world they live in and even slower to react with safety in mind. It's no surprise that American *probably* doesn't have an iPad quality control mechanism in place to mitigate App update problems.
    - Airlines. Airlines do the cheapest thing possible. Nevertheless, their IT folks (like most) "test" software by starting it. If it starts, it's good to go. As pathetic as this sounds, this is the level of "testing" done at most places. Forget about whitebox/blackbox testing! This has frustrated me to no end with airline IT and any company's IT. No operational testing is done except at initial rollout.

  43. Great! Giving mission critical tasks to toys.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's comes next?

  44. So it's in the wild now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Didn't we just read a story about crashing iOS devices. Didn't know that exploit was in the wild already.

  45. Wrong tool. by DriveDog · · Score: 1

    They were issued a Swiss Army Knife when they really needed just a simple knife. A no-frills ereader such as a Nook Simple Touch would have been more appropriate, more reliable, and longer-lasting battery-wise. Need to do something else? Provide another device. You didn't replace all the cockpit instruments with one menu-based screen, because it would be stupid to do so. Likewise with the handheld device.

  46. Double-standard on electronic devices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, pilots don't have to turn off their handheld devices during take-off and landing?

  47. Use actual files? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just a thought.

  48. An under recognised risk with electronic reference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This reminds of a similar incident that occurred at Hunterston B nuclear power plant. This was a cutting edge plant, and one of the features was that all the plant schematics and manuals were computerised.

    One day, the off-site power was lost due to heavy storms, and due to a complex series of events, the diesels failed to start and the automatic reactor control system (which would have initiated emergency reactor cooling) had been disarmed and failed to operate automatically.

    The computers with the reference manuals were connected to the plant's critical power bus, supplied by the diesels, but no additional UPS support was provided. As a result, operators were unable to access emergency procedure manuals (such as how to rearm the automatic reactor control system), or plant schematics which would have allowed them to restart the generators.

    It took 4 hours before the diesels could be started and reactor decay heat removal could be initiated.

  49. Internet connection not necessary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you don't need a constant connection because you can save the documents to the device

  50. Need certified, rugged "iPad-like" devices by allquixotic · · Score: 1

    The problem isn't that they are relying on a single vendor, nor that they chose iOS over Android, or anything else silly like that.

    The problem here is that they are using technology that's functionally tested for basic consumer use in a situation that suggests (and may soon require) a mission-critical level of software and hardware certification.

    A lot of people (business people / decision-makers, mostly) don't seem to understand the difference between consumer-oriented hardware/software and safety-critical hardware/software.

    Safety-critical hardware/software is designed, developed and tested with security, safety, and stability principles that are not only there "in theory", but are also tested for in practice, with a rigorous validation program that ensures the correct operation of the system. On the hardware front, the device is built to higher standards, such that the core chassis of, say, an iPad-like device would be able to withstand more shock than a consumer-oriented iPad with an Otterbox on.

    If an airplane goes into a sudden roll or dive, causes the iPad to go flying across the cockpit and shatters the screen, what then? The pilots need the information in that device to be able to know how to follow the proper procedures to continue flying the aircraft safely. Without it, they can take their best guess and rely on instincts on how to operate the systems, but you cannot expect every pilot to memorize every contingency procedure. That's why the EFBs exist in the first place.

    If you can't ensure that your tablet electronic device is at least as rugged as a hardback book, you shouldn't be using them on an airplane.

    The problem is that there are few or no vendors of extremely rugged hardware/software solutions that are available in a thin and light form factor akin to an iPad. The safety-critical rugged device sector is 5 to 10 years behind the state-of-the-art consumer device space. That's because it takes many more months to design and ship a device with a much higher level of physical and digital assurance of correct operation. The airlines seem willing to take the risk of failure of these consumer devices, because they would rather have the latest features, like capacitive multitouch, ultra-slim design, retina displays, etc. instead of using something whose technology was state-of-the-art in 2008, but is built like a brick, both physically and software-wise.

    We've seen MANY first-hand examples of consumer electronics devices from ALL vendors having extremely dangerous stability and security bugs that would render the device inoperable for the use case the airlines are using it for. We can't take the risk that this important tool will be unavailable when they need it. AA and other carriers need to stop using iPads as replacements for the flight bag, and either pay for the R&D for a proper rugged replacement, or go back to paper.

    I'll conclude by saying that the EFB/flight bag is, in my opinion, a safety-critical tool aboard all except the most sophisticated airplanes (e.g. the Airbus A380, which has a computer built into the cockpit on an LCD screen that actually tells the pilots what to do to resolve problems). The airlines are taking a big risk by implementing this with consumer technology. If they "do it right" and work with a vendor that produces rugged industrial mobile devices, it will cost more and have a much longer development cycle than shipping iPads. The devices will almost certainly be heavier, have less "whizzy" displays and UI, have a shorter battery life, and be harder to upgrade if additional features are desired later. But they will have a MUCH higher level of assurance that their correct operation, both hardware and software-wise, will continue to be available in the case of an emergency when they are needed most. It still won't be impossible that they'll break, but it'll be much less likely.

  51. Wrong pop diva by allquixotic · · Score: 1

    If you're going to reference a pop song ("haters gonna hate"), you chose the wrong pop diva. Rather, you should have used the more apt "Call Me Maybe" by Carly-rae Jeppsen (which is one letter off of "Jeppesen"):

    Hey, I just bought you
    And this is crazy
    But here's my WiFi
    So update me maybe?