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Hydrogen-Powered Drone Can Fly For 4 Hours at a Time
stowie writes: The Hycopter uses its frame to store energy in the form of hydrogen instead of air. With less lift power required, its fuel cell turns the hydrogen in its frame into electricity to power its rotors. The drone can fly for four hours at a time and 2.5 hours when carrying a 2.2-pound payload. “By removing the design silos that typically separate the energy storage component from UAV frame development - we opened up a whole new category in the drone market, in-between battery and combustion engine systems,” says CEO Taras Wankewycz.
...it's not furry.
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BMO
between things that fly and things that explode
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Please...can we stop using 'drone' unless/until it is actually autonomous? Otherwise, it's just a little RC aircraft.
This particular one is a little RC aircraft with a new, different fuel source.
Given the energy density of plutonium 238, a drone powered by a few grams could theoretically keep airborne and operational for years at a time.
I remember sketching/doodling a hydrogen balloon with a fuel-cell panel stitched into it when I was in 9th grade. Of course, I didn't know much about the practicalities of fuel cells -- just that I probably couldn't afford the platinum it would require. And this was pre-TRS-80, so about the only thing it would have done autonomously was go up until it used up its hydrogen, then come down.
The article says 4 hours is a lot longer than other drones out there... but how much are we talking about? How long can a lithium ion powered drone stay in the air?
Light up the entertainment with this explosively awesome new toy!
I can use hydrogen to keep an aircraft aloft much longer than that. The trick is don't burn it.
Call me when you have a Mentos and Coke powered drone.
Oh, by the way, the wind-powered drone has been around for very long time: https://youtu.be/5eAbMJuqHZA
You are welcome on my lawn.
What the article tends to gloss over is that the 4 hour supply of hydrogen will be compressed at 350 bar (5,076 psi). By comparison scuba diving tanks are rated at a lower 200 to 300 bars (2,900 to 4,400 psi). You simply don't mess around with gas stored at this pressure.
So while the concept model optimistically refers to using "existing structural tubing" it will be more realistically a very heavy, high pressure, purpose built gas cylinder strapped to a an existing structural quad copter. Plus the addition of a heavy pressure reducing regulator, fill valves and all the mechanical supports needed to contain and work with high pressure gas. Assuming the fuel cell itself can even convert gas to electricity at a rate sufficient to sustain flight.
4 hours my ass.
The article has a picture of the CURRENTLY WORKING drone. It doesn't have large tanks of anything, it has two small tubes of hydrogen.
I think you have greatly miscalculated the pressures needed by this system. It's not storing pounds of the stuff, just 4oz or so across two fairly large tubes...
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The website you get following the "hydrocopter" link in the article states pretty clearly:
HYCOPTER is being readied for a record flight endurance of 4 hours, or 8 to 10 times the average flight duration of equivalent systems today.
Which is about right based on even high-end drones consumers use today.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
http://www.icao.int/Meetings/UAS/Documents/Circular%20328_en.pdf
ICAO specifically uses the term "Unmanned Aircraft System" and "Remotely Piloted Aircraft". Go read the glossary on the above link and stop spewing your bullshit.
That's got propellers, and its go tubes, but no wires so its not a drone, its crude mockup.
It might even be just a rendering of pipes and propellers even, certainly not an engineering rendering.
I assume they'll try to crowd fund it without a working prototype?
From this link Hycopter Runs Off Fuel Cells it has a wonderful little bit of design data:
The intelligent design involved in the Hycopter would allow it to stash 120 grams (4.2 oz) of hydrogen gas at 350 bar (5,076 psi) in its current structural tubing, and this means that there would be no need for any kind of separate canister.
5000psi?!?!??! Seriously?!?!? (and there is a religious joke in there as well) I'm not buying that until I see the damn thing fly. Oh and BTW
The refillable tubes will eventually be made from polymer-lined 5 mm-thick carbon fiber tubing as opposed to clear acrylic that is part of the pictured display model. It is touted that that amount of hydrogen ought to be able to deliver a similar amount of energy as 3 kg (6.6 lb) of lithium batteries.
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Hydrogen gas was used by the Nazis too...
Why not an RC Zeppelin with nuclear RTG powered fans, that also uses excess power to generate replacement hydrogen from ambient moisture.
Now THAT sucker would be up there forever. I'd live in one if I could.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
http://www.progressiveengineer.com/profiles/maynardHill.htm
Years maybe, but not forever because the fuel is chosen to have a lot of activity for a short (in terms of years) time instead of a little bit for a long time. You need that intense activity because you get buggerall power from the seebeck effect (thermocouples etc), which is why the photoelectric effect is preferred in satellites unless the thing is going to be in the dark or going to be dipping into atmosphere to get sharper ground images (eg. the Kosmos series of satellites). Your RC Zeppelin would be better off with solar cells.
Yes, that's why we drive electric cars now.
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When the authorities see the word "hydrogen" then that's immediately going to restrict where they can be flown. In the UK that's already not many places.
The stress divided by the strain decides if or not a rigid structure deforms. If you do the match there is no known material that can make a spherical vacuum balloon. However it might be theoretically possible to make hexagon shaped tubes of microscopic size and put millions of them together to make an overall lighter than air rigid object.
... and any fool can make one with existing hobby motors.
Another thing I'd like to see someone try is use little hobby jet engines instead of four rotors.
Why? More compact size, I think the thrust might be higher, and they're probably more energy efficient if kept reved high for long periods of time. And that long rev state would be typical of a long distance flight.
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Maybe most hydrogen is expended in the first 30 minutes, and the residual hydrogen, lighter than air, will keep the drone afloat for another 3.5hrs?
That is not - quite - true.
However, they nowhere I have found have an actual picture of this thing in flight, or a video.
Then there is the fact that if you actually follow the links, they say something problematic.
The vehicles weight is 4kg.
The hover power is 400W.
This is very low for the weight.
Low power isn't purely a good thing.
Lower power implies a much lower 'exhaust speed' for the fans, and consequentially, much worse handling in wind.
If you rip out the (say) 1.5kg of fuel cell and extra structure to do hydrogen storage, and replace it with batteries, you get - with the same hover power and assumptions - over an hours flight.
Quadcopter flying times are a trade between ability to handle crosswinds and power-weight ratio.
If your quad gets blown away in winds a little faster than walking pace, you have a problem.
Why not one of those hobby turbines used as a generator?
This one:
http://www.mhzusa.com/MHZ-JetC... ...has a gearbox for driving the driveshaft of a boat, but maybe it could be adapted to run a generator. The specs show 8kw of power output and I think this is the smallest one they sell. Some of the others have power output in excess of 10kw.
2.2 lbs... or you mean 1 kg
This is easily achievable at high cost. I am a sub-sea Hydraulics tech for the oil field. They make stainless steel tubing or super duplex that can contain 15kPSI or over. I have a test line that does 20k and its a flexible pressure line.
Well I expect the original design was far superior, since it ran on air.
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FTW?
What drones are powered by air? Most are powered by electricity or hydrocarbon fuel.
I suppose one *could* be powered by compressed air. I know of none. (Yea, I'm sure somebody will find one, though, and link it here. They aren't common though.)
Horribly-written article. Suspect "Steve Crowe" ("author") is a bot. Link-bait.
ok, so instead of a safely-powered gasoline drone, which is flammable, we'd have an explosive drone that crazies are tempted to shoot at out their window using pellet guns. poof! there goes someone's amazon delivery!
The Hycopter uses its frame to store energy in the form of hydrogen instead of air
This makes it sound like there are all kinds of quadcopters out there that are using air to store energy. This is news to me, although given the low density of compressed-air storage I'd be pretty surprised if it's true.
Anyone have any idea why anyone would say this, as opposed to "instead of batteries"?
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As to response time... the current hobby motors might not be up to the challenge but gasoline engines handle rapid accelerations all the time. Internal combustion engines are prized for this specific feature.
I wonder if this is more of a gearing issue?
The issue with gasoline engines is that they don't like to literally stop and start. They like to idle and go. Electric motors are generally quite happy to go from a cold start to high activity.
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No, because it actually consumes the frame of drone as it flies, as part of extracting the hydrogen from it. So it's a fly-once deal.
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This is a pipe dream. Hydrogen is a crappy energy storage medium. High pressures make it dangerous and as the AC points out, PEM fuel cells have crappy power production rates. I'll be amazed if we ever see anything flying.