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China Unveils World's First Facial Recognition ATM
An anonymous reader links to an article at IB Times according to which: China has unveiled the world's first facial recognition ATM, which will not allow users to withdraw cash unless their face matches their IDs. The machine was created by Tsinghua University and Hangzhou-based technology company Tzekwan. It has a camera installed in it that captures the facial features of the user then compares it with a database of identification photos.
Good luck running an errand for a friend. Do they not have debit cards and Pin Numbers in China?
ERROR: All users match same data set.
Let's say that I want to loan a trusted friend some money. I give him (or her) my ATM card and PIN. They get the cash they need and bring me back the card and receipt. For some people, that's not at all unusual, if they're right about who to trust. Even so, this facial recognition is going to make this kind of routine transaction impossible.
Good, inexpensive web hosting
not the first to use it.
Perfect is the enemy of improvement. The crime of kidnapping/murder is far more serious than pick pocketing or card cloning. A lot fewer people will try the more serious crime.
It is not a joke. I come from a European country where East Asians were very rare, so when I started watching asian movies I had a hard time telling the characters apart, unless they had some very obvious defining characteristic. After several movies it became much easier.
But let's go the other way. While in the US I was going to a Chinese place with a friend of mine who comes from the same country and has the same (unusual even for Americans - never mind Asians) first name, but otherwise he is bald, I am not, he is heavier set etc. We definitely don't look alike. And they would ask about his wife when we visited (she was Asian and they knew her - I was unmarried) etc. But then I went alone once and they asked me about "my" wife. When he was not next to me they could not tell us apart!
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
ATMs are already riddled with cameras. Small step to add facial recognition really, much smaller than you may have realised. Far from the only thing they're storing. Any time you pay with plastic that gets recorded too, along with date, time, location, possibly with security footage too. And often gets stored for years.
What they're trying to do is cover their own asses: Better to shut you out of your own money --including by shutting out your friend or family running an errand for you, fuck you gramps-- than to let someone else run away with your money and you insisting they compensate you. No skin off their noses it means you can now do even less with your bank account. And the government is just that much happier knowing they can keep that much better track of you doing things with your money.
Like every other "security measure" that seems reasonable as long as you don't look too closely, it ends up restricting your freedom of movement, and every other "stakeholder", bank, government, you name it, thinks that's just swell. It's been going on for a while too. Yes, I agree it's creepy. Welcome to our modern world full of technological abuse. All you get to do is accept, even like it, you consumer, you.
This scheme will work for one branch in Lesser Nowhere, Sechwan Province, with a finite and small set of pictures, and a small number of crooks. Once the number of faces increases, the probability of a false positive explodes, roughly as (N 2) (select every two out of N), where N is the size of the pools of pictures + the person being scanned.
The well-known example is the "birthday paradox", in which twenty-three people at a party increases the probability of two of them having the same birthday to fifty-fifty. That particular case was because the actual probability was multiplied by (25 2) = 25! / ((25-2)! * 2!) = 6900 comparisons being made, times 1/365 chances of a hit.
The German federal security service considered using one of my then employer's recognizers for airports to catch terrorists, but ended up facing the problem of accusing grandma of being part of the Bader-Meinhoff gang (;-)) No matter how accurate we were, a few more people in the pool would give us false positives. We'd need roughly an accuracy of 99.9 followed by roughly as many decimal places of 9s as there were powers of ten of people.
--dave
davecb@spamcop.net
facials. that's porn.
So I guess they'll need a photo of me then, right?
How about some of my DNA, hair and skin samples, and fingerprints too? Store it all on your super secure networks.
But you may have problems recognizing people of your own general race in some situations: when, as a conscript in the Greek armed forces, i was in boot camp, because everyone was "the same" (same uniform, same haircut, same "facial expression of terror"), for the first week or so i had problems facialy recognize people i know for years, the they had same problems - visually, there were only those *groups* of people: tall/sort, fat/thin, and compinations of them...
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
Is this system capable of dealing with women who wear heavy makeup and decide to change their style? Or what if someone works a side job as a party clown and needs to grab some cash right before a gig? Could you circumvent this system by simply holding up a photo of someone?
Good luck getting your cash, muslim women. I doubt this system is very niqab- or burqa-friendly, unless it has a camera that can see through clothing, in which case I want one!
All Caucasians look alike.
Nothing is perfect
Which will trouble customers more - the false positives or the false negatives?
Hmm. I don't remember having that problem in Greek army boot camp. Maybe because by that time I was well trained after figuring out how to tell Chinese actors apart? ;)
Funny relevant story, while a conscript I was sent as an escort of a Chinese officer party (12 generals, 1 captain) that was doing a tour. Their captain wanted to play a joke on me so while at cape Sounio he showed me a group of Asian tourists and asked me "those tourists, are they like us?". No, I told him, they are Japanese. "How do you know?" he asked me startled. "They speak Japanese." I tell him. More startled he asks "You can tell the difference?". So I ask him back, "what do you mean, does Japanese sound anything at all like Chinese?" to which he says "eeh, no". And I left him there to think it over a bit...
That Chinese Captain was even more bewildered as he watched me and another conscript interact with our own Captain and Colonel. He told me that he could not understand our hierarchy, while he could see that we were just privates, we behaved like we were the same or above the Colonel when interacting with him. I had to explain to him that we were not privates in that sense, we were conscripts and we had a different hierarchy which was separate & parallel to the hierarchy of the rest of the army, and your level in the hierarchy was based on how close you were to graduating from the army. I explained that with less than a month left, me and the other attached conscript were at about the level of a Major General in our hierarchy so we could damn well be casual with just a Colonel if we wished... Not sure if he could grasp it...
Fun times...
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
How does that work? Don't they all look alike?
(I can't tell if my Korean wife is laughing or not... I'll let you know...)
In related news, Bill Gates no longer richest man in the world.
Have gnu, will travel.
When it's especially cold it would be a pain to undo the bundling just so the ATM can see your face. There's a fine art in layering your clothes (balaclava tucks inside the coat collar, scarf on the outside, etc) to keep the wind out on those -30C days.
Hmm. I don't remember having that problem in Greek army boot camp. Maybe because by that time I was well trained after figuring out how to tell Chinese actors apart? ;)
If you already could tell Chinese actors apart then you surely did not had that problem! But what i described was not only my problem but everyone else i know also (because of the "A.S.M." thing, i was in "Megalo Peuko" with many old buddies from my home town).
Funny relevant story, while a conscript I was sent as an escort of a Chinese officer party (12 generals, 1 captain) that was doing a tour. Their captain wanted to play a joke on me so while at cape Sounio he showed me a group of Asian tourists and asked me "those tourists, are they like us?". No, I told him, they are Japanese. "How do you know?" he asked me startled. "They speak Japanese." I tell him. More startled he asks "You can tell the difference?". So I ask him back, "what do you mean, does Japanese sound anything at all like Chinese?" to which he says "eeh, no". And I left him there to think it over a bit...
Ha! You made your fellow Greeks proud... we should never let "barbarians" play jokes on us!
That Chinese Captain was even more bewildered as he watched me and another conscript interact with our own Captain and Colonel. He told me that he could not understand our hierarchy, while he could see that we were just privates, we behaved like we were the same or above the Colonel when interacting with him. I had to explain to him that we were not privates in that sense, we were conscripts and we had a different hierarchy which was separate & parallel to the hierarchy of the rest of the army, and your level in the hierarchy was based on how close you were to graduating from the army. I explained that with less than a month left, me and the other attached conscript were at about the level of a Major General in our hierarchy so we could damn well be casual with just a Colonel if we wished... Not sure if he could grasp it...
With less than a month left? I am suprised you did not send that Chinese Captain to bring you some coffee! Oh, well, i guess you just wanted to show this "barbarian" our hospitality... good jod again my fellow Greek! To be honest, the "official hierarchy" was enforced with a little more strictness where i was serving, but (since we were often trained with NATO partners), when we were in our latest month(s) of our service we were always asked from our officers to try to be as less "malakes" as possible in front of "barbarians"... you know, try to pretend that this "separate & parallel" hierarchy did not existed! Of course we never did that (except for one time: when participating in a joint NATO exercise where... Turks were also present! Yes, we acted like real soldiers then...).
Fun times...
Imagine that my friend... here in Slashdot and we are telling stories from our military service... i always feel bad for the poor ladies who have to listen to us every time we go out and at least 2 Greeks are present - but i guess they can always talk to each-other about their girly stuff, so!
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
At train stations and airports all over China there are luggage storage lockers that work with a combination of pin numbers and face recognition, so this technology has been tested for some years here already. Though adapting the design beyond these very specific environments might present a tricky set of issues.
Good luck running an errand for a friend
Yep, running an errand on behalf of the loansharks, right?
Tough shit!!
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
In Taiwan, they photoshop the bastard out of every ID picture. By the time they were done airbrushing and bleaching my wife's picture, it looked like a geisha. They photoshopped makeup on her because she wasn't wearing any. No clue if they do the same thing in China, but that wouldn't match shit here.
I couldn't understand the parallel hierarchy thing. How come you have different ranks even before graduating from the army (school) ? Or are you referring to some advanced training courses you were taking while already having served in the army for quite some time ?
I couldn't understand the parallel hierarchy thing. How come you have different ranks even before graduating from the army (school) ? Or are you referring to some advanced training courses you were taking while already having served in the army for quite some time ?
I am not the one you asked, but i am "the other Greek", so let me help with that: it is an "unofficial" hierarchy - when you are a conscript (even just a soldier) that have already served most of the obligatory time, you get some "unofficial privileges"... one of them is some "respect" (among both newer conscripts AND professional officers)... something existing in most (if not all) conscript based armies like the Greek. You may want to also read this.
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
.. should not beat you up before getting to the ATM but after....
They are not "unofficial privileges", they are "don't give a damn i'm outta here in a week" attitudes. They'll do their jobs, but they sure as hell won't act like scared newcomers in front of anyone. Generals are just humans, after all. In a week they have absolutely no authority over you. The worst that can happen is you spend the week in MPs custody, so why bother.
There are some other "unofficial privileges" (plus responsibilities - very often you end up doing *some* of the officers' duties), but i agree that this "i don't give a damn i'm outta here" also exists - but the worst that can happen is NOT "spend the week in MPs custody"... you can spend some months doing extra service (as some of my buddies did), and/or in case you serving in S.F. (as i did) to get send to regular army (not something good, since everyone in S.F. are volunteers, plus that way you lose some OFFICIAL priviliges, some of them existing even when you become a citizen).
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
Already answered, but let me try to make it clearer. So there are no ranks or training courses (basic training is 40days for all - although I did get an extra 2 weeks of NATO translation school). However, because you are a conscript, i.e. the army needs you and not the other way around, you are different "material" than the permanent army staff. You know it, they know it. So when you start out you are a bit like a fish out of the water (they actually call you a "fish"), but as the time passes and you near graduation you have learned how things work, and you get respect from both "newer" conscripts and from officers as well (I guess it is a natural response to your more "experienced" attitude). This effect is compounded if you are old (I was 30 when I got to the army, having gotten educational deferment over the standard age of 18) and also if you are educated (I was actually grouped together with other MS/PhDs). Additionally, where you served mattered as well. You might end up in a backwater camp with strict officers that would try to give you trouble even when you were nearing graduation, and perhaps there is just a Major or Lt-Colonel running the camp who enjoys his absolute authority by showing it off ;) At such a place the officers (or at least the camp Commander) might now observe that unofficial hierarchy much (but they would at least up to a degree). Near the end of my service I was sent to the Greek Pentagon as a Translator and there you were surrounded by Generals, Brigadiers and other educated officers etc. and if you were one of the 3 Translators you even got to visit the "war room", so I had probably maxed-out the possible "unofficial" hierarchy (there is actually an app for that now! it is called "lelemetro", but it is in Greek). You did not get any "pips", but you knew and everyone else also knew. Case in point, when I was sent to the Chinese officer tour I mentioned, I was sent to report to another camp. I appeared in front of the Commander early in the afternoon and he told me that my orders had not arrived yet, they would probably be in the next day, I would have to wait. So I told him, ok, then, you can write me up for a 24h "exit permit" and I will leave you my cell number to call me if something happens before that. He stared for a couple of seconds, wrote down my "exit permit" and I left. I went through the front gate and gave it to the guard. Jaw dropped, he called the other guards. "What the hell is this?" they asked in awe. "24h exit" "but there is no such thing" "there is now". The context you are missing to understand this is that an "exit permission" lasts for a few hours. At most it can last up to midnight (or in special occasions until the morning call), but to get a full 24 hours you need an official leave, which is something you have a specific quota of (and I did not have any to spare). And even with an official leave, you still have to be present at the morning call, whereas I had a strange piece of paper that allowed me an unheard of (at that camp at least - I am sure others have pulled their "rank" like I did in other places) "real" 24h leave that did not even count against my quota. I behaved like a Major General in front of that Commander and he simply went along without even flinching!
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
Perfect is the enemy of improvement. The crime of kidnapping/murder is far more serious than pick pocketing or card cloning. A lot fewer people will try the more serious crime.
That's always the same on Slashdot. They come up with weird fantasies of kidnapping and so on.
Stealing or duplicating a credit card is relatively easy and no big risk. If you get caught, the punishment isn't too bad even if you stole a thousand cards. Kidnapping on the other hand doesn't give you any more reward, even a single attempt is dangerous for you, unlike normal kidnapping where you hide the victim you must bring the victim to a public place which hugely increases the risk, and if you are caught they never let you out again.
Thanks, that finally cleared it up for me.
they don't need it to. as long as they can say they did the worlds first of X, they'll do it, even if they don't roll it out even.
you see, that's enough for getting a triple phd in china. even if you just rolled some off the shelf open source software and hacked it into it.
btw all atm's in asia are buggy. there's something buggy about the ui in every single one, like ok button not being ok on the keypad, the languge selection only affecting some screens or some shit like that. that is when they're not crashed into the windows os running them.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Well not all of it, at least not yet.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."