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Diphtheria Returns To Spain For Lack of Vaccination
TuringTest writes: A six-year-old child was admitted to a hospital in Barcelona and diagnosed with diphtheria, which hasn't occurred in Spain since 1986 and was largely unheard of in western Europe. The boy had not been vaccinated despite the vaccine being available in free vaccination programs. Spanish general health secretary called anti-vaccination campaigns "irresponsible" and said: "The right to vaccination is for children, not for the parents to decide." The child is in critical condition, though he's now being treated with a serum expressly brought from Russia through an emergency procedure.
... so why are you listening to medical advice from him?
A Public Service Announcement from Get Your Brats Immunized
I thought they were conservatives telling everyone they don't want no gubbamint telling them what to put in their babby's body.
No. Vaccination rates are highest in the Bible belt, while they are lowest on the west coast. I think it has less to do with political affiliation and more to do with who reads idiot granola mommy and food blogs.
I strongly think that parents who elect to not vaccinate their children (absent a documented medical condition preventing safe vaccination) should be liable for child endangerment. This is reckless behavior that is reasonably likely to result in bodily harm to another human being. This is a public safety issue with a clear and benign and effective solution. Those who opt out should be liable for the consequences of their actions.
The only way I even know the name is because George Bailey saved the pharmacist from poisoning a kid with it in "It's a Wonderful Life." And the last recorded case of it in Europe was decades ago. So did it go hide out for a while in Africa or something?
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
So did it go hide out for a while in Africa or something?
Completely eradicating a pathogen from the globe is absurdly difficult. So far as I know we've only actually managed to do it once for a pathogen in the wild (smallpox) and even then we still have small stores of it in bio-weapons labs. You have to basically vaccinate the entire human population which is a logistical nightmare to accomplish. It's not too hard in wealthier countries with robust healthcare systems but in poor remote areas with low levels of education it can be extremely difficult to get to every last village and town and person.
... so why are you taking medical advice from her?
A Public Service Announcement from Get Your Brats Immunized.
In The Netherlands, the Bible Belt is the only place where the vaccination rate is not very close too 100%. Some orthodox protestants believe prevention of infectious disease is an unaccaptable interference with divine plans, so they choose to deny their children vaccines that could save their lives.
or mercury poisoning /s
"The right to vaccination is for children, not for the parents to decide."
Is he saying the kid gets to decide?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Why is this rocket science. Next issue.
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... so why are you taking medical advice from him?
A Public Service Announcement from Get Your Brats Immunized.
Then clearly they don't treat the infections when they occur either, do they? Or is not endangering others an unforgivable sin, but treating your own only sends you to purgatory? If doctors were the same kind of shite people as the ones who don't vaccinate their children, they would just quarantine the kids and their families and let them die.
Stop the INSANITY!
Why is slashdot promoting this topic? Does it have something to do with modern technology?
It just demonstrates that stupidity can flourish in both religious and non-religious communities.
It's still stupidity either way.
I didn't know there WAS a Bible Belt in Europe, especially the Netherlands. Here in the US, non-abortion-related medicine is usually without any religious controversy, save for the Christian Scientists (who are, depending on what angle you view them from, neither Christian nor scientific), a relatively small, fringe sect that believes that all medical care represents faithlessness.
Here in the deep-south, there's a modern-day parable that goes around Christian circles that demonstrates the general philosophy in this regard: A man goes over a cliff overlooking treacherous waters and manages to grab hold of a thin root half-way down. In desperation he cries out to God, "Save me! Send me deliverence!" Having thus prayed, he resolves to place his trust in God. A man walks by the cliff and lowers a rope. "Grab the rope!" he says. The hanging man replies, "I cannot! I have placed my trust in the Lord, and I will await His deliverance." Next a boat drives by under the cliff. The man in the boat says, "Jump! I'll catch you!" The hanging man replies as he did to the first. Next, a rescue helicopter hovers nearby, and a man lowers a ladder. "Grab the ladder!" he says. Again the hanging man replies as he did to the previous two. Slowly, the hanging man loses his grip, falls into the swirling waters, and drowns. He arrives at heaven, meets God, and cries, "Why did you never answer my prayer?" To which God replies, "What are you talking about? I sent you a man with a rope, a boat, a helicopter..."
Bible Belt states have some of the highest AND the lowest vaccination rates.
http://www.motherjones.com/pol...
And as usual, it is probably a combination of factors which influence the anti-vaccination attitudes.
Though one factor does seem to be common - clustering.
I.e. It's social. Where there's one anti-vaxxer, there's more anti-vaxxer.
Overall, national vaccination rates seem high: The median rate of coverage for the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine, administered to most before entry into kindergarten, was 94.7 percent for the 2013-14 school year. But, as Schuchat points out, the rate is lower in communities where unvaccinated families tend to cluster. In some areas, low rates might have more to do with access to clinics than with beliefs about vaccinations.
"The national estimates hide what's going on state to state. The state estimates hide what's going on community to community. And within communities there may be pockets," Schuchat said. "It's one thing if you have a year where a number of people are not vaccinating, but year after year in terms of the kids that are exempting, you do start to accumulate."
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
"The right to vaccination is for children, not for the parents to decide."
Lets extend that reasoning to all forms of informed consent and see how far we get. Pregnant 10 year olds declaring bankruptcy would make for some cracking tabloid headline.
Well, religious people are rarely very rational. If they were, they wouldn't be religious.
Why is this rocket science. Next issue.
Vaccines ARE required to get into some schools, which is why a lot of parents are homeschooling their kids. Now we've got these brain-donor parents as the primary teachers for their kids too ... what harm can come from that?!
It's not rocket science. It's political science. To dismiss that is missing the point. In free societies, you cannot sweep stupid under the rug. You have to work around it.
"Christian Scientists" are trying to punch a hole in time with sheer fucking irony, given what they believe, and their goddamn name.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Why would parents want to send their children to school when they can protect them from the big bad world by home schooling?
can you give me an example of a home school kid infecting anyone because of lack of vaccines? I haven't seen that outside of political screes.
The issue is not fucking home schoolers. This kid wasn't a home schooler was he? The issue is schools not requiring the vaccines for admission.
Half the nasty viral and bacterial outbreaks I've seen in the last few years hit the border states. THAT should be a clue to you. People crossing the border and not going through immigration or quarantine are going to have all sorts of fucking diseases.
And whatever your attitude is on immigration, I think we can agree from a medical best practices stand point... that that is actually a bigger problem than the relatively tiny portion of the population that home schools and really I can't see any evidence that they've caused an outbreak... ever.
I'm trying to be nice here... but I'm sort of annoyed that you went with such a biased narrative and entirely ignored other issues that actually much larger.
In the case of the article, I would point out that this happened in SPAIN... not Norway. Are you aware what is happening in southern Europe these days? Huge illegal immigration from Africa. People just show up in boats by the thousands... no quarantine... no papers... no vaccinations... just show up and mix into the population.
What could possibly go wrong?
Again, have any opinion on the immigration situation you want. From a viral and bacterial and paracitic vector stand point... you can't disagree with me. I have science on my side here. Fact. It is as much an issue as taking a dump and them without washing your hands going to perform surgery.
But again... by all means... show me some examples of home schoolers spreading disease in the community. I'd like to see a case of it. And a couple incidents aren't going to be evidence of a pattern. Everyone spreads diseases. Even the vaccinated kids. The issue is their lack of vaccinations causing a disproportionate health risk? I doubt you can show evidence to that effect.
We can't afford to be political and tribalistic when diseases come into the picture. They don't care what your politics are... A fascist, a communist, an anarchist, a socialist, a capitalist... to a disease they're all just people. It doesn't care what you believe.
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Look, as much I agree that vaccination is a good idea, there's no point spouting stupidity as bad as the anti-vaxxers'. Point in case:
"The right to vaccination is for children, not for the parents to decide."
Nope. Children have parents exactly to tell them what to do and to make decisions the child cannot make by itself. You as a parent are supposed to make these decisions in the best interest of the child, but that is not quite the same as "is for children to decide".
Besides, the supporting material in favour of vaccination is already too hard for many adults, who resort to uninformed superstition to say "no", so it's hard to see how even less educated and more gullible children would make better decisions here. "Lord of the flies", anyone?
so the Spanish taxpayers, via socialized medicine will pay for the critical care, and for the Russian serum, for the decision made by these idiot parents. They should have to cough up the money to pay for this lunacy. Unfortunately, the child may pay with his life.
how is it a public safety issue, the ones who do get vaccinated aren't at risk... so they only endanger themselves and likeminded folks
Wrong. Not everyone can get vaccinated because some people legitimate medical conditions making it inadvisable. Sometimes they are too young. Sometimes they have allergy or other medical conditions that prevent their vaccination. These people depend on herd immunity to avoid the illness. If people start avoiding vaccines for non-medical reasons then these people who cannot be vaccinated are endangered by those who recklessly decide to avoid vaccination for no good reason.
Furthermore diseases have a substantial and measurable cost to society. We have finite resources both financial and time to devote to treating diseases and if we waste them on something that could be solved with a cheap and safe vaccine then we necessarily cannot spend those medical and financial resources on something else. Should we spend a few dollars for a vaccine or thousands on a treatment. THAT is a public health issue.
From a viral and bacterial and paracitic vector stand point... you can't disagree with me. I have science on my side here. Fact. It is as much an issue as taking a dump and them without washing your hands going to perform surgery.
and what was your scientific argument? you didn't make one. if you want to project yourself as being knowledgeable on science, you need to actually show that you understand it - as opposed to just declaring yourself informed as you just did.
there are many good arguments for mandatory vaccinations against a number of diseases, and pretty much no good arguments against the overwhelming majority of the vaccines that we have available. however you did not produce any of them in your comment. you've shown that you are content with grandstanding, now can you show that you have some ability to process information?
can you give me an example of a home school kid infecting anyone because of lack of vaccines?
Measles at Disneyland. Home schooled children grow up, and they still are not vaccinated.
I didn't know there WAS a Bible Belt in Europe, especially the Netherlands. Here in the US, non-abortion-related medicine is usually without any religious controversy, save for the Christian Scientists (who are, depending on what angle you view them from, neither Christian nor scientific), a relatively small, fringe sect that believes that all medical care represents faithlessness.
In general, religion does not play a major role in The Netherlands anymore, since the majority is not religious and most of those who are tend to be relatively liberal. Legalising euthanasia, for example, was also supported by a majority of christians in The Netherlands.
There is, however, a 'slice' that runs from the southwest to the east where a significant fraction of the population are orthodox protestants. This area is commonly referred to as the Bible Belt (probably after the region with the same name in the U.S.). It largely follows the historical boundary between the part of the country that used to have a catholic majority and the part that had a protestant majority. Somehow the large-scale secularisation that happened in the rest of the country in the decades following World War II never happened in the Bible Belt. Many people still attend church twice on a Sunday, they adhere strictly to specific readings of the Bible, they do no do any non-religious activities on Sundays, etc. It is one of the few regions in Western Europe where new churches are being built regularly.
Educating them would be more effective than punishing them.
Let nature take its course since that is what the parents wanted.
Stupid argument because the consequences go beyond the idiots who avoid getting vaccinated. There are people cannot get vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons. There are people who are too young for a particular vaccine. No vaccine is 100% effective either and sometimes the protection disappears over time. By not getting vaccinated people are not only endangering their own family but the families of others.
No. Vaccination rates are highest in the Bible belt, while they are lowest on the west coast.
[citation needed]
We keep hearing this. Please substantiate your assertion.
The highest rates of vaccination in the US are Mississippi and West Virginia.
Funny that.
The Diphtheria vaccine doesn't prevent infection, it only immunizes against the effects of the toxin the bacteria produce.
Thus, it's still around and kicking, it just doesn't kill people anymore as most people can fight off the infection on their own without the toxin wreaking havoc on their body. And most people won't even notice anything other than "flu-like symptoms" as all the effects of Diptheria are caused by the toxin, rather than the presence of the bacterial infection.
The poor kid probably just got coughed on, or touched something and then cross-contaminated something he put in his mouth.
/sigh... and as I do in every single thread this comes up in: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/previe...
Further data: 7 of the 8 most vaccinated states went to Romney in '12.
Compared to bringing eradicated diseases back in a big way, it's the lesser evil.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Measles outbreaks in China, where 99.99% are vaccinated.
The pro-vaxxers are not very scientific. They resort to outright lies about how dangerous some diseases are to scare people into getting vaccines. They believe the "experts" who talk about how effective the vaccines are, claiming 95% when the Mumps vaccine is more like 30% and Merck covers up this fact. They also believe the "experts" who are always talking about how safe they are. But since they are soo safe, most of the vaccine harmed people are not counted as being harmed by the vaccine. So it is really circular reasoning that you use when you claim it is safe, but refuse to count the harm that is done.
I actually did. I pointed out that the home schoolers make up a relatively tiny portion of the population and are therefore not relevant to herd immunity.
Pay attention next time.
As to mandatory vaccinations, I said they were fine for people that go to school. Require it when they show up. Getting snippy with me about home schoolers is idiotic since there aren't enough of them to be relevant. You might as well bitch about the Amish not getting vaccinated.
Does that sound rational to you or fucking stupid?
That's a rhetorical question. Its fucking stupid.
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Pass around those lollipops so your kids all get those diseases
Avoid all modern medicine.
And let Darwin take care of it all.
p.s. Take Jenny McCarthy with you.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The version I've heard has the man on the roof of a house surrounded by rising floodwaters, but is otherwise essentially the same.
Then there's the devout guy who keeps praying to win the lottery, but never does. Finally after one particularly impassioned prayer, he hears a voice: "Meet me half way, buy a ticket!"
wow, you are so kind, dear sir. obviously you are infinitely more knowledgeable than anyone else and hence don't need to actually partake in a rational discussion. hopefully the rest of the world can some day bask in the glow of all you can offer to them. it looks like you chose to start by sharing that here on slashdot, blessed we must all be for being witness to it.
do it by dem vs repub. there are some VERY repub areas in california. lots of agri hicks, and lots of libertardians.
No, they're basicly the neo-nazis of the bodily autonomy debate.
If you don't want the government to be able to mandate medical procedures you end up having to defend the antivaxers even though the antivaxers are by and large themselves not particularly concerned with the issue of bodily autonomy beyond their right to refuse the one thing they arbitrarily decided to not like.
The source of the concern is parents who're trying to be "cutting edge" with their child raising and get suckered by clickbait fear mongering "journalism". The more conservative parents tend to get their kids vaccinated because their parents got them vaccinated and they "turned out alright".
The religious reasons thing, is just the legal loophole the antivaxers use to get what they want because it's really hard to get politicians who will stand up and fight against claims like "the school board wants to send my child to hell" rather than caving immediately.
and by county? i think you have lots of dems in the cities driving up rates bro.
Woot!! Someone got sick, which there's a vaccine for, let's all jump on how stupid it is to NOT get vaccinated!
Because everyone here knows full well, how safe vaccines are for you. Oh, wait, none of you shitheads know
for sure how safe vaccines are. How about those of you who feel that vaccines are safe, look up the rates of
how many more people every year are suing for compensation for the damages that vaccines are causing. But
don't even bother looking up the latest rates, because the database for that was deleted... Hmmm, I wonder why...
Don't forget the Jehova's Witnesses, who believe blood transfusions are against their faith. And celebrating birthdays or other holidays.
Now you're just being a pedantic assclown.
This is becouse all these ill negroes and arabs coming by flocks to Europe from Africa and Middle-Asia. Nothing to do with the "anti vaccination movement".
Curious if they vaccinate there next child. Its easy to sit above everyone when you have never seen the issue, because its been almost entirely eradicated, but at the turn of the 20th century people were ready to stand in line for the mere chance that they could prevent permanent disability or death from a number of childhood disease.
Momento Mori
oh, we got those too, that's different. We've got the ones on the right that have always done it for religious reasons.
what he's talking about is the newer movement that says vaccines are bad for you and cause disease.
the religious exemption has never been a big issue, not enough to make a dent in herd immunity. It's the dirty hippies that are causing the big problems in the US.
Dr. Cox would call the side effect a major case of "deadness."
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
"The right to vaccination is for children, not for the parents to decide."
Well, with the general level of needle enthusiasm among 5 year olds, I can guess what the vaccination rates will be once children are the ones decided whether they should be vaccinated.
The right to determine a child's rearing MUST lie with the parents of that child. Not because parents do not make mistakes, but because they are less likely to make mistakes than any other group. This mindset that we must live in a 100% safe, mistake-free world is delusional at best.
and by county? i think you have lots of dems in the cities driving up rates bro.
Cognitive dissonance.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
So... sarcasm is your way of showing you're superior to me?
How is that working out for you?
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Measles outbreaks in China, where 99.99% are vaccinated.
The pro-vaxxers are not very scientific. They resort to outright lies about how dangerous some diseases are to scare people into getting vaccines. They believe the "experts" who talk about how effective the vaccines are, claiming 95% when the Mumps vaccine is more like 30% and Merck covers up this fact. They also believe the "experts" who are always talking about how safe they are. But since they are soo safe, most of the vaccine harmed people are not counted as being harmed by the vaccine. So it is really circular reasoning that you use when you claim it is safe, but refuse to count the harm that is done.
God is not in the gaps. Or at least, he shouldn't be.
I sit here reading and thinking, but I'm in my 40s, and when my mother was a young girl Polio was a serious thing. She knew people struck down from it. Everyone was scared of it. So when the vaccines came, everyone was happy and it cut Polio morbidity down to nothing. In the meantime we have had two generations that have not generally faced the scourge of serious infectious disease, thanks to vaccination. It is easy for them to dismiss something they have never encountered as a real threat.
No, you don't. You have been shown the facts and simply choose not to accept them.
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
MotherJones used to have journalists, but they are now nothing but a pro-progressive propaganda rag, fond of running hit pieces on anyone to the right of Mao Zedong.
You do realize you just replied with a "god damn commies" ad hominem to an article citing Center for Disease Control and Prevention, on the topic of... well... diseases and vaccination?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Which diseases does a bday party protect one from?
A good deal of working around stupid if figuring out what is relevant and what is not... and ignoring what is not relevant.
Home schoolers are not relevant to herd immunity. There aren't enough of them.
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A good deal of working around stupid if figuring out what is relevant and what is not... and ignoring what is not relevant.
Home schoolers are not relevant to herd immunity. There aren't enough of them.
Please don't make that assumption. In your area, there may not be enough. In Southern California, they are everywhere, and the congregate! That is how outbreaks occur - in small groups of closely knit unvaccinated areas.
Shit reading comprehension, perhaps?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I live in southern california... lets look at the stats.
Okay:
http://a2zhomeschooling.com/th...
California 6,757,361 / 190,911
So that's your ratio... about 2.8 percent of the student body is home schooled.
Alright... are you saying 2.8 percent breaks herd immunity? Because it doesn't.
Also, just because someone is home schooled doesn't mean that they don't have their vaccinations and just because someone is in public school doesn't mean they do.
That's an abtirary variable that doesn't control for whether you are vaccinated or not.
Might you be more inclined to be vaccinated one way or the other? Sure. But then people with sniffles tend to have colds. It doesn't mean that because you have the sniffles you have the cold.
Causation and correlation. I think if I were dictator of planet earth... I'd execute people for not appreciating the distinction between causation and correlation... past a certain age. Instant summery execution. The line has to be drawn somewhere. No offense.
Seriously though... you can't control for it on that basis and 2.8 which is the ceiling number is a lot higher than the number of home schoolers that don't have vaccines. Lets say half of them don't... you're then talking about 1.4 percent.
That's a fucking joke.
Blaming the outbreak on home schoolers when there is literally no evidence to back that up is fucking retarded.
there is no way that ALL the home schoolers are without vaccinations. And even 2.8 percent is a tiny portion of the population.... If you assume that half are without basic vaccinations which is likely too high, you're then talking about something less than 1.4 percent of the student body. And that is just of the students. We're not even talking about as opposed to the total population.
This is officially unsupportable.
Now, on the other side, I'd point out that we have an unprecedented wave of illegal immigration coming into this country. They're not vaccinated. They're permitted into the PUBLIC schools without vaccinations. So everyone else that goes to the school... we have to show documentation to prove we got our kids vaccinated. But they don't have to do that.
The kids are classified as "homeless" and they're just let into the system with no vaccinations at all.
Now... what are the numbers? No one actually knows. Most people cite Census numbers from TEN YEARS AGO that are of course utterly useless for figuring out what is going on today.
All that said... outbreaks happen. Even if everyone gets their shots people are going to get sick. It just happens. You have to accept that. But to blame the fucking home schoolers? Fucking astounding.
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I couldn't find any link between that and home schoolers.
Can you provide a link? From what I could see they had no idea where the disease came from and the people infected were mostly not home schoolers.
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I wish I could find it, but there was a vaccination map for Southern California. You live in a poor part of LA? Really high vaccination rates. Live in a Rich and/or Hippie infested area? Vaccination rates MUCH lower than the surrounding areas.
... Did you have a rational comment or does the intellectual basis of your argument boil down to the sort of shit I would expect to hear from a six year old?
Make a rational point or suck on a pacifier with the rest of the babies.
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Every day is a reason to celebrate Jesus thus no need for holidays and a line in the Bible that there will be an accounting for the blood. Yes, I did try to listen to them before outright dismissing them. It was amusing for a time. I would not have listened at all but I had answered the door naked (just out of the shower) and they waited outside patiently while I dressed so I was willing to listen for a while.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Because lefties hate to admit that there are more wing nuts in their camp than in the other camp, that's why.
The only way I even know the name is because George Bailey saved the pharmacist from poisoning a kid with it in "It's a Wonderful Life." And the last recorded case of it in Europe was decades ago. So did it go hide out for a while in Africa or something?
It's endemic in some populations; also: a bacteria, Corynebacterium diphtheriae, not a virus, FWIW.
Yes. There are large reservoirs of the bacteria in many North African countries, as well as Pakistan. What's only noted in a couple of places is that while the kid was "a resident of Olot (Girona)", the kids origin was as an adoption of an immigrant child.
To see the reservoirs, here is the World Health Organization data on reported cases by country through 2014:
http://apps.who.int/immunizati...
If you care, you can also look at diseases other than Diphtheria, across the top of the chart. For example, there were 52'628 cases of measles in China in 2014, and there are rather large reservoirs in the Philippines as well (which is whre the person who was pation zero in the Disneyland measles outbreak had just travelled into the U.S. from, presumably infectious at the time they travelled. Somalia, India, Ethiopia, Viet Nam, and China also have significant measles reservoirs.
http://apps.who.int/immunizati...
Of course, we don't perform health examinations or quarantines on people traveling from these hot zones into the U.S.
P.S. India, the U.S., and Australia are the top reservoirs for pertussis (whooping cough), so it'd be a good idea to check those people too, if they happen to be coming into your country.
can you give me an example of a home school kid infecting anyone because of lack of vaccines?
Measles at Disneyland.
Patient 0 for the Disneyland outbreak had just returned from the Philippines, which is a measles hot zone, and did not self-quarantine for a couple of weeks before mixing with the public, and so did not know he was sick.
Here are the WHO statistics on the number of cases of various diseases reported for various countries, through 2014:
http://apps.who.int/immunizati...
The Philippines has the highest incidence of measles of any country (but China, with a vastly larger population, is not that far behind).
I didn't know there WAS a Bible Belt in Europe, especially the Netherlands.
FWIW, there's even a "church-tax" (fees collected by the government on behalf of a church) in many European countries including the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden) and Austria, Italy and Germany. Rules vary, but participation of the population in state affiliated churches is north of 67% in some countries, although there has been a recent trend of people leaving churches in European countries if it allows them to avoid paying these "taxes".
Of course paying the tax and actual active membership in a church are two different things. Apparently in Europe, there are lots of passive members that continue to simply just pay the tax (presumably for traditional reasons) inflating the membership rolls of the churches and overstating their influence...
As for vaccines, I don't think there is much different underlying sentiment in European vs the USA-ans. is primarily an issue where there is a big push to be current on vaccines when entering school in the USA, where in most European countries the focus is in the (public) healthcare system. Perhaps both the USA and Europe, attendance to school is still more universal than attendance to healthcare (even if both are "free") and the resulting diseases bear this out.
In the U.S. the anti-vaxxers are largely those who go around calling people Deniers because they don't drive a Prius.
GIven that much edepends on the framing ot the questions, it appears that between liberals, moderates, and conservatives, it's all about the same.
http://blogs.discovermagazine....
As in so many aspects of life, it depends on your own political views. If you are conservative - the liberals are the bogeyman. If you are liberal, it's conservative bugaboos.
People like myself, in the middle, recognize that one's politics, left or right, does not prevent them from being a flaming asshole, which any anti-vaxxer most certainly is.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Which diseases does a bday party protect one from?
Depends on the age - that 18th birthday party has been know to cause internal parasites that take the better part of a year to get over.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
> "The right to vaccination is for children, not for the parents to decide."
^
!
This!
I'm not against abortion, but against killing a life -- specially a human life!
I totally pro-choice people, if they can wait 9 months. Don't want a baby? No problem, give him/her for adoption... just do not kill a defenseless creature, because you got a career planned.
It's not about your rights: it's about the child's rights.
Like when the parents decide a child doesn't need a doctor because their religion forbids it. There was a 'Law & order' episode about this.
If you have a large and not well controlled influx of people from areas with high infection rates and low immunisation rates the only thing you can do to protect your community is to warn everyone of the increased risk and ensure that as many people as possible do get vaccinated. The problem is how do you point this out to the population at large without causing racist sentiments to increase?
No. Vaccination rates are highest in the Bible belt, while they are lowest on the west coast. I think it has less to do with political affiliation and more to do with who reads idiot granola mommy and food blogs.
This. In Australia the only significant anti-vaxxer crowd are the nutbar organic and/or anti-government conspiracy crowds. Strangely enough these two groups tend to be so similar it's pointless to even try to separate them a venn diagram.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
The problem with that argument is that the "parents" in this case are not qualified to make that decision.
Wrong, slave. In fact, they are the only persons qualified to make that decision.
Fuck off and die slowly in a fire with your nanny state bullshit. Can't believe four retards moderated you "insightful."
Medical doctors.
They know more than you, no matter what you read on the internet/hear from your mates/partially learned.
Take their advice. They are properly and fully trained experts. They don't have an agenda. They don't get a back hander from BIG PHARMA. They speak the best truth they can. Fundamentally, unless you study for 7 years, they know best.
Any other interpretation you can offer is stupidly arrogant.
consider that previous post another participation trophy there, junior. feel free to print it and put it on the wall next to the other ones in your bedroom. just remember to shake the toner cartridge in the printer before printing, otherwise it will come out all streaked. if your printer is out of toner, send me an email with the part number and i'll try to stop at staples on the way home from work.
try again after you finish your g.e.d., kid - maybe they will be enough biology on the test to get you caught up with current middle schoolers. just because your parents have been kind enough to keep you out of the herd - for which the rest of us thank them as you clearly aren't ready to be part of it - doesn't mean you understand how it works. you think you're doing great because very few bugs get into your parents basement to make you sick; let us know how it goes when you get kicked out from down there and told to find a job. you'll likely lose your first job quickly when you take too many sick days.
the fact that large portions of the poor in Spain live off garbage heaps! Trust the vaccination scaremongers to exploit the situation and the general readers to be dumb enough to fall for it...
I know what herd immunity is, fool.
I asked you to make an argument.
You responded with ignorance and evasions.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Yes, Virginia, there is even an anti-evolution movement in Europe.
http://www.spiegel.de/internat...
The claim is made that 20% of Germans believe in creation.
In today's society, European church taxes are deemed to be an expression of cultural identification in countries that have 'official' churches (Church of England, Dutch Reformed Church, et. al.) The tax for maintaining that church is supposed to be a minor element of cultural identity, not, as in medieval times, a requirement to follow the faith.
Official churches of this type are what is explicitly forbidden in our First Amendment.
Anti-vax sentiment on the right is a vestigial part of the fad diet movement, like Dr. Mercola. It doesn't even have fundie megabucks behind it, let alone Hollywood gigabucks.
JWs are fine with plasma, it's whole blood they don't like.
> FWIW, there's even a "church-tax" ... in many European countries. here has been a recent trend of people leaving churches in European countries if it allows them to avoid paying these "taxes"
It gets odder than that. In the UK, if you live in a parish then you're liable for costs resulting from the upkeep of the parish church, no matter what your religion (or lack of) is, or if you attend another one somewhere else.
Then again a lot of people identify as "christian" despite never having set foot in a church in their life (The "my parents were so I am" model - this happens with other religions too. I know a bunch of very secular people who say they won't come out as such because it'd upset their muslim or sikh parents)
No. Vaccination rates are highest in the Bible belt, while they are lowest on the west coast. I think it has less to do with political affiliation and more to do with who reads idiot granola mommy and food blogs.
So, God or Jesus will protect them, when the next measles or pox or polio epidemic returns.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Uh, no, their high vaccination rate will protect them.
http://spreadsheets.latimes.com/look-vaccination-rates-california-child-care-cente/
or this? http://spreadsheets.latimes.com/immunization-levels-california/
I've read that the more educated you are the less likely you are to have your family vaccinated. Specifically, the reference was that Lawrence Livermore Lab has an extremely low vaccination rate.
Also, somewhat anecdotally, doctors don't get vaccinated either. Doctors will not go to get the flu vaccine, and nurses will get it only if forced to.
So, if you think the government lies randomly, like some kind of quota system, then you're normal, but if you think the government lies purposefully, then you're a conspiracy theorist? Are you anti-government, or just anti-bad-government?
Dubya: Hey, Dick, what are we going to lie about today?
Dick: Well, George, we're halfway through the B's. Bin Laden's at the top. Let's do something with that.
there you have it. the 911 truth is out.
As someone who has worked in a hospital (Win XP to Win 7 Migration... dear god the special software never wanted to work on Win7, and half of the shit was still 16 bit), I would like to counter that. Everyone in the hospital I was in was vaccinated for the flu. Well, not EVERYONE, but majority. If you did not get vaccinated, you had to wear a mask and gloves at all times. Those that were vaccinated had a tag attached to their badge so you knew.
Also, my mom (BSN) is head of Infection Control for a rather large medical center out here. Majority of the nurses get the flu shot there as well. She has to do all the paperwork and processing for those that dont and make sure that they are wearing at least a mask.
She even doubts the effectiveness of them (due to the flu being something that mutates rapidly), but she does get them.
Prevention:
Child tetanus triple serum immunization, whooping cough and diphtheria.
People awareness about the disease and the severity of infection and methods of prevention and treatment.
Isolate patients from proper ones to limit the spread of the disease.
Get rid of the patient waste safely.
Treatment:
Rest: The patient must obtain enough period of bed rest.
Fenugreek: Boil a teaspoon of crunched Fenugreek in a cup of water for two minutes and gargle several times for two minutes.
Onions: Heat Dry Onions on fire and then place the poultice on the
throat area and on the bottom of the jaw, it is advisable to drink onion
juice and lemon juice with lukewarm water several times each day.
Garlic: chew Garlic cloves like chewing gum for three minutes then
swallow it and then steam garlic vapor of boiling water for five
minutes.
Guava leaves: mix equal amounts of guava leaves, marshmallow roots,
Echinacea purpura, licorice and wild thyme then soak a tablespoon of the
mixture in a cup of boiling water for ten minutes and then drink a cup
after three meals a day for the treatment of diphtheria.
Fennel: Soak a spoonful of mashed fruits of fennel in a boiling water for ten minutes and then drink a cup after three meals.
Honey: honey wax eaten several times a day for its usefulness in the treatment of diphtheria.
Apples: eat apples in all its forms, roasted, raw, or fresh with anise, Rock candy or saffron.
Ginger: boil or soak ginger sweetened with honey or sugar and drink it daily for the treatment of diphtheria.
Geranium: Soak a teaspoon of crunched plant in cup boiling water for
five minutes and then drink it for the treatment of diphtheria.
Geranium: Soak a teaspoon of crunched flower roots or plant in a cup for five minutes and then drink a cup morning and evening.
Plantain: Soak a teaspoon of grinded seeds in a cup of boiling water and drink it hot daily.
From Wikipedia : "Diphtheria is usually spread between people by direct contact or through the air. It may also be spread by contaminated objects." There's no mention of it being soil-bourne, so I would assume it's one of the few from that bacterial order that isn't able to live in soil.
ok, fair enough.
my somewhat anecdotally comes from my wife being a nurse, my step-daughter being a nurse, and we have another nurse in the house. i have a lot of doctors in the family, but i myself am not one. the word i hear from the nurses is that the doctors don't get the vaccines. i've read stats in newspapers that seem to confirm this.
regarding the flu vaccine specifically, most people i know have read about the lack of effectiveness of the flu vaccine, and that it makes you more susceptible to next years flu. they aren't against vaccines generally, just against useless ones like the flu vaccine.
one person i know never got the flu - until she got the flu vaccine, came down with a bad case right away. she says she'll never get the flu vaccine again. a good friend of the family got the flu vaccine in the morning one day a few years ago, and he died that afternoon. Sure, he was older, but he was in good health. Sure, he could have passed away from some undiagnosed illness, but that scared most of my family away from the flu vaccine.
up until a couple years ago, i was on the fence wrt vaccines. the first connection i made with bad stuff happening to this generation is allergies. I've been aware for some time now that most countries don't have extreme allergy problems among their children. My wife is from the Philippines, and this allergy thing is completely unknown there. Especially the peanut allergy. Peanut allergy is unknown in most third world countries, but here in my child's school there's a safety wall in the teacher's room filled with 30 pictures of children with serious allergies, mostly to peanuts. Here, one in fifty children have a life threatening allergy to something, and this simply did not exist in previous generations and it does not exist in other parts of the world. Then i found out that peanut oil is a GRAS unlisted adjuvant ingredient in all vaccines, and has been since the cotton seed oil problem with vaccines back in the 1940's. Researching the origin of allergy, i find that everything points back to the hypodermic needle. The word allergy was coined by von pirquet, an austrian doctor studying serum sickness in the 19th century (serum sickness was what they called a bad reaction to vaccines in the 19th century). The reaction my child has to peanuts is called anaphylaxis. This word was also coined by a researcher into negative reactions to vaccines. It was the french doctor Charles Richet who coined the word for this deadly reaction to vaccines, and he got a nobel prize for his work in 1913. Richet was able to give dogs an anaphylactic reaction to raw meat by injecting them with raw meat proteins. To this day, the easiest way to create a severe allergy to something is by injection.
Richet was not a humanitarian. This is what he has to say about people like my child.
Well, that's breathtaking. and if anaphylaxis isn't quick enough, we always have the gas chambers.
First, my apologies for a long post, but it's an important message. This isn't a copy and paste deal, I wrote it.
A few weeks ago, I researched diphtheria and discovered a great deal about it. My Mom's youngest sister died at 12:00 a.m. December 26, 1940 at 4 years of age after a bout with diphtheria. It is a terrible disease, spread by mucus particulates (sneezing, coughing), primarily affecting young children. It resembles the common cold in the early stages, which inhibits diagnosis. Initial symptoms are a sore throat, swollen glands, weakness, fever, and cough. An extremely potent toxin, deadly at a very minimal level, is released into the respiratory system. A membrane develops in the throat that restricts breathing and swallowing and causes palate and throat paralysis, nerve damage, congestive heart failure, necrosis of the heart and liver, and finally death over a short period of 2-3 weeks. It was not common at that time to vaccinate children for this disease, although the vaccine was developed in 1890. Mom's whole family was quarantined and given toxin anti-toxin as a preventive measure, and 7 children and their parents watched their little sister and youngest child die. Fortunately, no one else in the family developed diphtheria. I know vaccinating children (or the lack thereof) is a hot topic, but I seriously doubt anyone would want to see a loved one succumb to this easily preventable illness. If this isn't an argument in support of vaccination, I don't know what is. Thanks for reading.
First, my apologies for a long post, but it’s an important message. This isn’t a copy and paste deal, I wrote it. If you wish to educate yourself, this will be helpful. Please feel free to share. A few weeks ago, I researched diphtheria and discovered a great deal about it. My Mom’s youngest sister died at 12:00 a.m. December 26, 1940 at 4 years of age after a bout with diphtheria. It is a terrible disease, spread by mucus particulates (sneezing, coughing), primarily affecting young children. It resembles the common cold in the early stages, which inhibits diagnosis. Initial symptoms are a sore throat, swollen glands, weakness, fever, and cough. An extremely potent toxin, deadly at a very minimal level, is released into the respiratory system. A membrane develops in the throat that restricts breathing and swallowing and causes palate and throat paralysis, nerve damage, congestive heart failure, necrosis of the heart and liver, and finally death over a short period of 2-3 weeks. It was not common at that time to vaccinate children for this disease, although the vaccine was developed in 1890. Mom’s whole family was quarantined and given toxin anti-toxin as a preventive measure, and 7 children and their parents watched their little sister and youngest child die. Had she survived, she would have developed spinal meningitis and been paralyzed the rest of her life. Fortunately, no one else in the family developed diphtheria. I know vaccinating children (or the lack thereof) is a hot topic, but I seriously doubt anyone would want to see a loved one succumb to this easily preventable illness. If this isn’t an argument in support of vaccination, I don’t know what is. Thanks for reading.
You may do whatever you like with your body because of your religion, but your religious rights don't include abusing or endangering your children. To believe otherwise is to be more self-absorbed than you accuse sjbe of being.