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Microsoft To Release Low-Cost Windows 10 With Bing Branding
jones_supa writes: Linux-based Chromebooks have experienced a huge growth in sales during the last couple of years, so much that Microsoft is getting nervous. The company is working with partners to bring cheaper devices to the market, and part of this plan is Windows 10 with Bing, a special version of the new operating system that would only be addressed to original equipment manufacturers. This low-price basic version of Windows comes with hardcoded Bing branding, although the search engine can be changed by the user. Microsoft wants Windows 10 to be installed on as many devices as possible, and the company's roadmap expects 1 billion PCs, tablets, and smartphones to be running it until 2017. The build for Raspberry Pi 2 is still in the works as well.
Before everyone jumps on this with their "Hatez the Microsoft" commentary, let me just point out that Android relies on exactly this kind of branding, except it's Google instead of Bing.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
They already do that with Windows 8. I'm not sure how this is front-page slashdot worthy.
"Microsoft wants Windows 10 to be installed on as many devices as possible..."
Ya don't say.
Except, obviously, that it's Windows 10, not Windows 8.1. My HP tablet comes with Windows 8.1 with Bing, and I've been suspecting the "free upgrade" I'll be getting will be to an equivalent Windows 10 version.
Windows 8.1 with Bing is actually free to manufacturers of cheaper devices. I assume that was partly why it was on my $150 HP tablet.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
That they would accept a Bing branded Operating System.
And, you know, this isn't exactly big new news...
Windows 8.1 with Bing has been around for a while.
the important takeaway is that THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE VERSIONS is that THE OEM cannot change the default search software prior to sale. THE END USER CAN CHANGE WHATEVER THEY WANT STILL.
This is a good thing, anything that brings the price of the OS down for the average joe is a good thing. And maybe, if we're lucky, the Chromebooks will have to step up their game to compete with real Windows.
Android (AOSP) is FOSS and the Google components can be stripped out, this is not and they sure as hell won't let you get rid of all the bingware.
I'm willing to click a few checkboxes to turn off Bing to save some money. Sounds good to me. Hell, at the right price, I might actually give Bing another shot.
Google instead of Bing... Most of us make that choice every day.
Even from reading TFA, I'm not sure I understand.. I take it that that version of Windows 10 comes with Bing hardcoded, but only for Internet Explorer (or whatever it is that they're calling the Windows 10 replacement)? I presume there's still nothing stopping users, once they get it, from installing Chrome or Firefox, and choosing whatever search engine they want?
And that's why we hatez Google.
This is no real surprise... just continuing an existing product - and something that is certainly expected of them. However it is nice to see them throwing some weight behind getting this rolled out on the raspberry pi (and other of the low power computers).
Before everyone jumps on this with their "Hatez the Microsoft" commentary, let me just point out that Android relies on exactly this kind of branding, except it's Google instead of Bing.
If I install AOSP and don't install gapps, then it really doesn't say Google anywhere. Ditto for Cyanogenmod. And if I install Firefox on Cyanogenmod then my default search is Yahoo (ugh.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Well, they've me too'd the phone/tablet OS.
They've me too'd the search engine.
They've me too'd an app store.
They forgot to me too any cool cachet.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Stop being idiots.
Just release 10 home for free to everyone. This will overnight solve a lot of problems and increase adoption back to the levels you want.
I thought the new CEO was a smart guy, but it seems he just doesn't get it.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
YOU are allowed to get rid of the bingware. The OEM isn't. I.e. Yahoo or Google can't pay an OEM to change the default search engine - the "with Bing" version sets it to Bing the first time the OS install runs. That's it.
Sure ... but Google got their place in the market by putting out something people wanted.
Microsoft is coming to the party late, as usual, with their "me too" product.
I think for Microsoft to be saying they "expect" 1 billion devices by 2017 is going to prove to be way too damned optimistic.
Sure, this is the exact same thing as Google does with Android. But will anybody give a damn is the question.
A billion devices in two years is a LOT of devices.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Sometimes I think we just automatically hatez anyone who is successful. Human nature, or something like that.
Seriously. As long chrome or firefox can be installed there should be no problem.
Stop trying to suggest that humans are special. We hatez because of nature. Nothing more.
It wasn't exactly a big hit. In fact, it helped kill off Microsoft netbooks, helping usher in ChromeOS.
Remember, Microsoft Windows requires a LOT more resources than the stripped down ChromeOS. And THEN you have to run antivirus, antimalware, firewall, etc. to it, at which point it becomes slow as molasses on low end machines.
Microsoft wants Windows 10 to be installed on as many devices as possible
That's been their strategy forever.
Captcha: renews
I was under the impression Windows 10 was going to be free. I know it is for IoT devices like the Raspberry pi 2.
The HP Stream 8 will serve as an example of a Win 10 upgradeable budget Win 8.1 with Bing tablet.
WIMBOOT with Compressed OS. If you are wondering why you haven't seen the Win 10 upgrade tray app on your RAM-starved tablet or laptop this is the reason. A solution is in the works.
Since Ballmer has left Microsoft has been making huge strides forward in everything from public policy to product development.
Win10 with bing is Microsoft finally facing the reality that low cost computers are viciously commoditized and a model where you attempt to push a 200 dollar OS license on a 100 dollar piece of tablet hardware is not viable. (200 is what 'home' versions of windows has traditionally sold at. - 99 for upgrade)
You're right. This is the Android model that Google has proven to work quiet well - Give away the OS and make it up on services.
Microsoft has to step up or get eaten alive by Android, ChromeOS, and ipads on the low end.. Apple already has conquered the high end (Apple may not ship the volume, but their margins are 1000% better and that makes them the number one most profitable PC maker by a wiiiiiiide margin)
Fuck, I've even heard that MS is going to clean up and normalize their enterprise volume licensing.. Is it getting a little chilly down in hell?
As of 2015 it seems to be fine if Microsoft bundles IE/Bing/Onedrive/etc. with Windows as the monopolistic elephant in the room is now Apple restricting other browsers at their app store.
The post makes it sound like you could run Windows 10 on Raspberry Pi 2.
Well you can't. Nothing with GUI anyway.
It is basicly a windows kernel with terminal only connection. So you can connect a bunch of sensors, do some stuff with PowerShell and develop IoT applications with .NET. Think about everything you can do with linux and original Raspberry Pi (even with 256mb) and add Windows bloat. That should quadruple the requirements and still be of limited use..
Any developer with decent skill set can work out some way to get results from RPi running linux and import those into his .NET application.
I joined the Insider Program and watched 2 hours of video... for .. this. I am not impressed.
So you open up your argument by insulting people who dislike Microsoft and follow it up by saying that if party X does something, it is ok for party Y to do so. Brilliant.
How is this going to work, though? Won't Windows 10 require a footprint of something like a million gigabytes of RAM, a couple petabytes of disk space, and a 32-core processor just in order to boot up and open Notepad?[1]
[1] All stated figures are approximate.
The upgrade from Windows 7 and 8.1 will be free. Upgrading from any other version (including 8.0) will require a purchase. Pirated versions will still work, but they'll be branded as non-genuine so they can't be sold (to anyone that knows how to find the non-genuine markings/what they mean).
I was under the impression Windows 10 was going to be free. I know it is for IoT devices like the Raspberry pi 2.
Well, the engineers will be happy about that. Now they'll finally be able to run Windows and Matlab on an embedded system.
No, msobkow was referring to the sort of people that hate anything Microsoft does simply because it's Microsoft doing it.
8.0 just needs to be upgraded to 8.1 ..... which is a free upgrade ..... so there is no purchase involved there....
The computer OS is too important to be left to market forces and fickle managers.
There should be a worldwide effort to create a single free unified OS (with a metadata filesystem, and 100% scaleable GUI!) for everyone, which dumps the bloat and legacy code of old OSs (including Linux) and starts afresh. It won't happen now, or even soon, but sometime within the next 1000 years it is almost definite.
Such an OS won't drastically change over the years, but keep with a consistent theme (no flatland design!), only changing if a consortium of thousands of the brightest software engineers, mathematicians, scientists, and designers agree it's for the best. Everyone writes software for it, and there are no worries of cross-porting or compatibility issues. All software will be completely self-contained (no external libraries, or preference files scattered over the OS), and 32 bit would be a thing of the past. Searching for files and programs takes the OS less than 0.05 seconds in all cases.
I would dig that OS.
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
"1 billion PCs, tablets, and smartphones to be running it until 2017"
So it's EOL'ed in less than 2 years?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I am still waiting for a clear picture of their revenue model. Is this a case where they just are charging for new installations since almost nobody buys retail Windows upgrades, or are we paying to decripple our systems along the way?
I am honestly wanting a clear explanation as to how this is supposed to work in a way that they are not losing revenue (MS doesn't know how to do that voluntarily), yet not end up doing something evil (that they have down pat).
>
[1] All stated figures are approximate.
Yeah, They seem to be too low by an order of magnitude.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
However, there were some issues that prevented people from upgrading to 8.1. It took half a year before my machine was able to make the upgrade. I don't doubt that some people are still stuck on 8.0 because their rigs just won't accept 8.1.
"Microsoft .. is working with partners to bring cheaper devices to the market, and part of this plan is Windows 10 with Bing"
:Nokia, Oracle, Allegro, buscape, Marketplace, Twenga, Foundem, Microsoft :)
fairsearch.org 'is a group of businesses and organizations united to promote economic growth, innovation and choice across the Internet ecosystem'
They already did. It was Windows 7 Upgrade, which cost half as much as the full version and let you install a full copy of Windows 7 as long as you pinky-swore that you totally had a legit copy of XP or Vista before the "upgrade". Since then, going from 7 to 8 cost $15 for early adopters, 8 to 8.1 was free, and 7/8.1 to 10 is also free.
So really, if you're still on XP or Vista you're just paying the fogey tax. Everyone else is already getting a discount somewhere along the chain.
@msobkow: "let me just point out that Android relies on exactly this kind of branding, except it's Google instead of Bing."
Am I allowed to remove 'Windows 10 with Bing' and replace it with other Operating Systems?
No problem, I hate Android, too.
Windows 10 has the same minimum requirements as 7. Like Windows 8, I expect to see noticeable performance gains.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Indeed. A billion is a lot.
-- Cheers!
"8 to 8.1 was free"
Fuck off Microsoft shill!!!!
That upgrade was a half-assed attempt to fix the BS in v8.0. Do not for one second try to sell it to us as something to be grateful for. You slipped up dickhead.
> YOU are allowed to get rid of the bingware.
Microsoft have stated that with Windows 10 the OEMs can discard the option to turn secure boot off. It may be that in order to qualify for free 'with Bling' they should do that. This would dissuade users from trying other operating systems. It may also force Linux users to buy a machine that has Windows 10 that the OEM has paid Microsoft for.
1GB of RAM, 16GB of disk space - just the OS. Double or quadruple it for applications
Apple was loved around here before the iPhone hit big.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft doesn't have to do anything like that to keep the moolah flowing
Since they have Windows - all versions, they can offer services based on that - particularly ones that require to run the older ones. Like selling something like a VirtualPC but for 10, which has support for all past Windows versions, starting from 3.1. That would enable a lot of organizations to upgrade to 10 whenever they are getting newer PCs, w/o being stuck w/ 7 or XP due to support of legacy Wintel apps. The VM package can be an add-on for those who must have support of the older version.
Now, if only Microsoft could figure out a way to let Windows Phone run Wintel apps. Maybe have a line of Windows Phones based on the Broadwell instead of the Dragonfly. It's still rather pathetic that the Universal app store ain't out as yet
This is a good thing, anything that brings the price of the OS down for the average joe is a good thing.
Linux has been free for over twenty years.
And it already runs just fine on the RPi and RPi2 and lots of other computers.
Linux has been free for over twenty years.
And people still don't want it.
So, will Bingbooks hit a price point that makes them reach a critical mass, or will it be yet another swing-and-miss?
Linux has been free for over twenty years.
Not quite.
For most of those years -- possibly all of them -- Linux has only been free if your time is worth nothing.
...why, yes, I have had my share of problems with Linux on the desktop...
Install Firefox, or Chrome, and use whatever search engine you like.
People want Linux for servers.
But it has never caught on for desktop.
Just as it was making progress, Red Hat screwed up everything with systemd.
BSD is better for servers.
Before everyone jumps on this with their "Hatez the Microsoft" commentary, let me just point out that Android relies on exactly this kind of branding, except it's Google instead of Bing.
I look forward to the M$ contributions to SeaBIOS and I know they'll make it easy to replace their OS and cloud servers with my own.
In other news this story has fuckall to do with Chromebooks. This is a low-end Windows 10 on a USB key from Intel. M$ have already done a deal with Intel so that Linux on the same key is handicapped (not that I care - I've been able to run Linux from USB keys for a long time without Intel holding my hand).
Original story before the Chinese Whisper chain.
You can return to you demand that we embrace the new M$ offering with the same triumph of optimism over experience we afford the Catholic church and their treatment of altar boys. And we'll pretend that it's mighty liberal of M$ to allow the end-user the legal right to break out of a monopoly.
Two words, "secure boot" Along with Intel's south bridges with burned in signing keys for "official bios", you can't use these throw away windows boxes for useful work by replacing the OS. So, what changed is these will be more like a completely useless windows phone than a real computer that came, annoyingly, pre-installed with Windows, but can be wiped and made useful.
is Microsoft willing to pay me to use Windows?
They sat on their asses for years and let all the people involved with the Raspberry Pi do the hard work, scrape up the hard money, and NOW they come along and try to co-opt the hardware with their shitware OS to steal mindshare from users of a platform chartered to support low cost, NO STRINGS ATTACHED, hands on learning about computing? Google at least donated a laughable pittance for 1M USD from their coffers (see http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/...) to the foundation. Microsoft isn't donating shit to support the vision, but is rather gleefully SHITTING ON the vision. Their motives are clearly to just spread 'Windows everywhere' like the syphilitic pestilence it is. New CEO or no, it's damage Linux and promote windows while killing the spirit of Open Source and learning that it is. Same old Microsoft. They can't die out fast enough.
I would love to see the Raspberry Pi foundation come out with a 'not recommended' statement on that bullshit.
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
The grandparents argument still stands. You can get Android (AOSP) without any google components at all on it. You can't do that with windows with bing.
Or in other words an OEM can ship an android device without anything google related on it. But OEMs can't ship windows with bing without bing. That is the difference. So your argument doesn't rebut what the grandfather said.
Microsoft is coming to the party late, as usual, with their "me too" product.
They are hardly coming late to the party, as this is simply the latest in the line that started with Windows XP Starter Edition. It originally was made for specific countries, but it was gradually expanded to worldwide distribution and has had an equivalent cheap level for OEMs for every of Windows since then. In fact, this isn't the first version to be labelled "Windows X with Bing" - that happened with Windows 8.
A billion devices in two years is a LOT of devices.
It does seem like an ambitious target for such a short time, but then Windows XP Starter Edition was only available in 17 countries and it ended up shipping 1,000,000 units. That said, it took them 5 years to reach that milestone.
remember: there's also smallpox. And tuberculosis. And those new-fangled things like AIDS and this ebola thingie.
Look, guy: I *hate* Microsoft, for its repeated abusive behavior. I hate it with passion[1]. But that doesn't mean I somehow love Google. By far not.
[1] that doesn't automatically mean I hate the folks working there.
> Linux has only been free if your time is worth nothing.
And of course your own choice is instantaneous to do everything at all.
From https://dev.windows.com/en-us/iot
""" ... Estimated time 30-40 min ... Estimated time 60 min ... Estimated time 60-90 min
Set up your Windows IoT device
Set up device
Write your first Windows IoT app
"""
Apparently not.
Bing is such a stupid name, seriously Bing for Ballmer what the hell, https://www.youtube.com/watch?..., I guess the insurance salesman in him could help bit seek to pump up his ego, but why the hell is M$ still pushing that stupid name.
MSN Search, clean and simple, bring back myMSN and ease back on the advertising (more advertising, less content, you have less to sell and the advertising space becomes worth much less, so balance). Shit load of balmy ballmer damage to fix but not impossible.
Start separating MSN from M$ and work on rebuilding the MSN brand, try to 'politely' be all things to all people and never ever allow advertising to take up more than somewhere between 20% and 40% of any page. Trickier than it seems when menus and headings do not count as content and already put a hole in content. Bing is a bad a name as Zune and winphone was really lame when it became losephone with a tiny market share.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
I don't actually have a problem with this, despite regularly having been branded a "Microsoft hater".
The modern internet is definitely a platform in it's own right. Browser-only (or browser-mostly?) devices have a place in the market.
The only problem I have with this is the name "Bing"... I just can't help but think of Friends' Chandler Bing whenever I hear it.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
The IoT versions of Windows 10 use the Windows kernel, but they aren't desktop Windows systems. They're more designed as deployment targets for apps written using Visual Studio on a full PC.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Microsoft wants Windows 10 to be installed on as many devices as possible
That's been their strategy forever.
Captcha: renews
It's almost as though they're a commercial organisation who want to increase their profits.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Nothing new in that regard. They've been doing this for almost 8 years, and I wouldn't be surprised if those little hamstrung netbooks are where Google got the Chromebook idea.
I noticed that Windows Mobile has replaced Windows Phone: is that just a branding change given the unpopularity of the latter, or is Windows Mobile 10 supposed to replace both Windows RT and Windows Phone 8?
There are 2 things that I'd like to see on Windows Mobile - the app stores of both Windows Mobile and Wintel 10 being merged so that I can use Yelp!, and Windows Mobile - at least the phone version - getting some more apps like Vonage Extensions and Uber Partner, and fixing apps like Skype that currently crash a lot on the Wintel version of Windows.
Blocking point for me is that a vanilla Debian won't install in a UEFI dual-boot. Even installing the noob friendly Ubuntu requires more than plugging USB device, click next.
And Windows 7 was their full-assed attempt to fix the BS in Vista, but people paid for it in droves. They barely had any ideas new ideas that Vista didn't already cover and instead relied massively on user feedback to make an OS that people actually liked. So keep sucking that hate-dick you seem to love so much.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE VERSIONS is that THE OEM cannot change the default search software prior to sale.
The OEM also has to put it on devices with smaller than 13" screens and I think the total MSRP has to be below $250.
Windows 10 will be free for small tablets (8" and smaller screen) and for IoT. It is not free for desktops, laptops, hybrids, and larger tablets. Microsoft already has a reduced cost Windows 8.1 with Bing, so this announcement just means that they are extending the program into the Windows 10 era. I expect this version to show up on most retail systems rather than the standard Windows 10 because it will reduce the price. All in all this could be a plus for consumers because it will reduce the amount of bloatware that gets pre-installed, since non-Microsoft replacements for the Microsoft apps can't be set up as defaults. It's possible that some computer makers won't switch because they are making enough money on bloatware product placements to make up the difference. Business systems with Windows 10 Pro will be unaffected.
For the user it's not a big deal. You're stuck with some possibly annoying Bing branding. You can still change your default applications if you like, though it's a bit more work than on previous Windows versions (based on my experience with the preview) because programs can no longer change the defaults for you. Applications that try that now give you a Windows popup that reminds you that you have to do it yourself in the Settings app. (Control Panel also works for now.)
Yes but it's a completely moot point since users can remove it.