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Tech Jobs and Apple: Every Bit As "Fun" As Pleasure Island?
theodp writes: On the eve of Apple's big Worldwide Developers Conference, Apple CEO Tim Cook said the lack of diversity in tech is 'our fault' — 'our' meaning the whole tech community. "I think in general we haven't done enough to reach out and show young women that it's cool to do it [tech] and how much fun it can be," Cook explained. Indeed, the WWDC scholarship winners shooting selfies with Cook at the San Francisco Four Seasons to celebrate their iPhone apps and other WWDC attendees looked to be having as much fun as, well, Pinocchio at Pleasure Island. But, as the NY Times recently pointed out, Cook can be guilty of overlooking inconvenient truths. Which here is that most young women (and men) wouldn't find it 'cool' or 'fun' to live with 8,000 co-workers in factory dormitories where they can be roused out of bed in the middle of the night by Apple for an emergency 12-hour shift to fit glass screens into beveled iPhone frames, although that too conjures up a scene from Pleasure Island.
Every bit is covered in magical fairy dust from the foothills of the sierra Nevada mountains.
Countless science papers confirm average IQ of west African blacks is far Lower than most other racial groups. This can be measured at every stage of life including a few weeks after birth. There are a handful of "brain folding" genes that most of the world has to increase IQ, but guess which group lacks them? Also puberty stops ability for IQ to deviate (higher or lower) from mean. Females and overly testosterone laden males go through puberty earlier, and that is why countless science papers also show that that is the cause of females at IQ level of 124 are one in eight chance compared to a male with an IQ of 124. We have known these things for over 80 years.
The US gov shows that if you get a "32" perfect MCAT score, and are Japanese descent, you are only 59% accepted to college !!! Blacks at almost any score level, born in USA, are accepted! Thats from the US governments own online downloadable tables. Racism like that against asians is caused by people like Apple's Tim Cook, claiming we need to solve the IQ discrepancy by social edict.
https://www.aei.org/publication/acceptance-rates-us-medical-schools-2014-reveal-ongoing-racial-profiling-affirmative-discrimination-blacks-hispanics/
It hurts peoples feelings I guess to talk about science. You can breed smarter rats in a few generations. Sprinters in olympic sports win from genetics of fast twitch muscle ratio, and are from west africa. A north korean descent person will not win an Olympic Sprint Race no matter how much training or will or pressure. Its the type of muscle tissue and body type. We can accept that fact, but liberals all think brains are magically all the same.
Boo Hoo. These libtards need to stop it with the "we can train all inner city Detroit gang bangers to be computer scientists and nuclear physicists, if we shower them with free iPads to maybe increase their IQs.
IQ never changes upward after birth, poor nutrition can make it go down, but never up.
How is it "our" responsibility to help anybody who can't see for him or herself (or who just has different tastes) see that tech jobs are "cool" and "fun?" Seems like young girls have every opportunity as young boys generally to form those opinions if they will.
Seems to me like this whole diversity push by all the big companies is just a way to make the job market more favorable for them. But I'm a white male, so I'm probably a racist, sexist homophobe.
Idiots like you give racism a bad name. Learn to write.
OK, I've worked in the industry for a very long time now, and it can be 'fun' for the few bits where you actually get to prototype or work on the bulk of the features. That takes 10 percent of the time. The rest of the time you are going to be trying to find obscure bugs, introduced by crappy programmers rushing to get features out. Meanwhile you will be micro-managed through the 'agile' process asking you to account for every hour of your time. Then we will throw ill defined features at you, and expect them to be done within this two week time period, and be shocked when you reach the end of two weeks, and they are not done. This is usually due to the fact that meanwhile 16 support tickets were also thrown at you that are all critical in nature. Then you have those late night calls with your Indian counter parts that you can barely understand or stay awake for. But it is fun!
I don't know what planet these people live on. It is a tough career with crazy deadlines and weird policies. You have to constantly keep up on the latest trends, or you will be viewed as 'too old' for the job. Meanwhile, computers never sleep, nor do they expect you to. You have to push back constantly to maintain your personal time.
That said, I love computers. I love programming. I just don't love the industry as it is now. There is a reason that most women don't want in. They may in fact be much smarter than men in this regards.
I am sure everyone knows about the working conditions of workers manufacturing Apple products. We should protect workers' right. But Apple is not the only culprit. Yes, Apple earned a lot of money but it doesn't mean that we should let the other brands off if they engage in workers abuse. We should bring them to the task too.
Lack of men in nurseries are because women are at fault failing to make the jobs "cool" enough.
Who needs facts and responsibility? Let's just make things up from our farts as we go!
And that should be a argument to dismiss the research? Go troll else where fucktard.
Why is Tim Cook even wading into this discussion? Mainly because the SJWs are shaming companies such as Apple and Intel to do something about what they perceive to be an epidemic of gender skew in technology professions. Funny how they're nowhere to be found when it comes to nursing or other female-dominated professions, nor all the factory positions in China where men are worked to the death. Yet all the idiot CEOs take the bait and run with it.
What they all fail to realize is that equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. Nobody gets me out of bed in the morning, brushes my teeth, forces me to do a particular job or anything else, so it's up to me to do that. Same with careers. If you have a specific problem, there are LOTS of legal protections to prevent this kind of thing - lawsuits, DoL complaints, and so on.
Ask any person of any identifiable group whether they feel good about being hired not because they were the best candidate, but because of some identifiable characteristic. You'll get two groups of answers - the majority who would feel awful about it, and the minority who would feel proud and entitled because of it. As long as that difference exists, this nonsense will continue.
Those jobs are factory assembly work, not "tech". They are in the same category as assembling car parts, radios, or toy wagons. Cook is talking about creative development where you work with your mind, not simple low-skilled labor.
Yes, it sucks. But conflating the two in this article is dishonest.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Diversity for the sake of diversity is NOT a good thing. Granted, if a company has a thousand employees, and the only black face in the crowd belongs to the janitor, then there is a problem. But - if the company's demographics perfectly reflect community demographics, then we all know that the company is more absorbed in public relations and catering to special interest groups, than it is in BUSINESS.
I work for a woman. I work with women. Women work for me. I prefer the company of women, truth be told. But - I'm sure as HELL not going to hire a female because she's female. Or black. Or Asian. Or gay. Or whatever. I'm going to hire the MOST QUALIFIED PERSON FOR THE JOB! If that happens to be a straight white male - so be it. If it happens to be a gay Chinese woman, again, so be it.
Screw diversity. It's a waste of my time, waste of your time, and a HUGE waste of company resources.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
"Indeed, the WWDC scholarship winners shooting selfies with Cook at the San Francisco Four Seasons to celebrate their iPhone apps and other WWDC attendees looked to be having as much fun as, well, Pinocchio at Pleasure Island."
That's a pretty bad analogy. CEO who recently made public that he's gay, so let's compare him to a creepy old villain who surrounds himself with little boys he wishes to hurt and enslave? Stay classy.
IQ never changes upward after birth
Of course it can, here is one example. You are on crack or something. More specifically, you are only looking at studies that confirm your preconceived viewpoint, which is how you are able to remain racist.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
None of that is set in stone. A century ago, the IQ gap between Irish Protestants and Irish Catholics was bigger than the current gap between whites and blacks. Today, that gap is completely gone, probably because of not eating potatoes for three meals a day. We should not look at the current gaps as something that should be accepted, but as something that should be fixed. Blacks in America have worse nutrition, and more exposure to lead and other environmental contaminants. They are much less likely to be breastfed, which can change IQ by 3 points. They have less stimulating early environments. When I was a kid, while other boys where learning how to talk to girls, I spent a lot of time working through puzzle books and doing recreational mathematics. I don't think many black kids are exposed to that. Motivation can also make a big difference. When I took assessment tests, I was focused, and tried hard to do well. The black kids in my class didn't seem to care.
This isn't even journalism, you're comparing being a fashion designer to seeing patterns together in a southeast Asian sweatshop. Was it a really slow week or something?? This is awful
Who in their right mind thinks a factory worker counts as a technology worker? The closing sentence is completely irrelevant, even if true.
. "I think in general we haven't done enough to reach out and show young women that it's cool to do it [tech] and how much fun it can be,"
Do "we" reach out for the young men?
Nobody ever "reached out" for me, yet here I am. Have I just been living under a rock?
There are women on the tech field, those who want to do it are doing it already. More than that do not want to do it and you can't and shouldn't either force or manipulate them into anything.
Steve Wozniak was nowast encouraged wastby society to spend his entire time building computers and other tech. He simply liked being able to do something for the sake of doing it. Not because anybody told him he should like it but because it made him feel good that he could do it. Good luck convincing people who do not get that feeling intrinsically that they will enjoy that type of activity.
Cook is Cook, he is notnot Wozniak. He is not even Jobs. He is out of place where he is right now. Out of place and out of ideas.
You can't handle the truth.
This is the most rote, politically correct, by-the-numbers news story I've seen on Slashdot in a long time. Are you building a portfolio to try to apply for a job at a North Korean news bureau? Are you getting paid or graded based on the number of silly, college-student-activist, progressive bromides you can pack into a paragraph?
People don't buy apps based on the "diversity" of the programming staff. App users don't care. It's a 100% equal opportunity for everyone. But that's not really what you want, is it?
WRONG!
IQ never changes upward after birth. If a test shows otherwise, experts in the field correctly claim such a contrived test is not a proper IQ test.
A proper IQ test, does not measure learn-able skillsets!
IQ is a strict and fair definitions and of the countless properly designed tests, they all correlate well, and all show no way to increase one's IQ. Otherwise the test would not be included in the set of acceptable IQ tests, due to flaws.
IQ only measures IQ, a self referencing definition. Think of it like horsepower of a car engine. But the fun part of IQ is when this abstract test score, which works 3 weeks after birth all the way through life... is found in relationships of certain people and their achievements. Such as medical doctors and science PhDs tending to have IQs of 125, and Detroit inner city gang members, having IQs in the opposite direction.
The US government spent over 10 billion dollars in a few years to try and daytime educate and feed toddlers up to kindergarten age, and see if anything on earth can change IQ upward. They tried everything. And using GENUINE true qualified IQ tests they confirmed that even over 10 billion dollars spent trying everything , cannot change IQ. You cannot retrain Detroit inner city kids to all be computer scientists or high energy physics scientists. You can't even bump their IQ a single digit. Papers mince words, but its still a fact. http://npc.umich.edu/news/events/war-on-poverty-june-conference/gibbs-ludwig-miller.pdf
Wikipedia is altered by countless socialists and womens rights groups that want to suppress the settled science on what IQ is and what genes and puberty rates affect IQ. The reason? So few people stand up to speak truth or are vilified. This comment will get -1 just for defending science.
Steve Jobs's Advice for Obama: Jobs told Mr. Obama that Apple employs 700,000 factory workers in China because it can't find the 30,000 engineers in the U.S. that it needs on site at its plants. "If you could educate these engineers," he said at the dinner, "we could move more manufacturing jobs here."
Too bad we can't think for ourselves instead of being forced to believe what "some studies" say this year, even though it will be probably contradicted by some other studies next year. The mandatory groupthink and automatic deference to anyone who writes a journal paper are starting to become a burden.
Countless science papers confirm average IQ of west African blacks is far Lower than most other racial groups.
I'm curious if any such studies have followed black children adopted by white parents vs. white children adopted by black parents. Or perhaps you're just telling a Pinocchio.
A north korean descent person will not win an Olympic Sprint Race
But once you cross the border to the south, you see Samsung, the official cell phone maker of the Olympic Games. And they're on Sprint.
Bleeding heart, emotion based reasoning is part of the legacy, pseudoscience, pseudo-liberal mindset.
Whether Timmay wants to admit it or not, the meritocracy matters -- blacks, women, christians struggle when faced with asians, males, and jews, at least when faced with a difficult test. The world of physics blossomed after the Ivy League finally allowed Jews into their schools in the 1920's and 1930's. All that immersion in the Torah as a child really pays off.
So it's bad enough that we use emotional reasoning and group based resentment to address deep, legacy, historical issues within our society, such as blaming modern tech or white men, but the problem gets far worse upon consideration.
The US central government was built up to compete with the Soviet Union and China. Vast expansions of the President's cabinets have taken place over the last 60-70 years. Unlike the USSR and China, the US federal government has never collapsed or reformed.
Instead, our central government employs hundreds of thousands of bureaucrats, with aggregate salaries in the hundreds of billions of dollars, and their raises are linked -- by contract -- to increases in the minimum wage.
A quick scan of the President's dozens of cabinets shows vague, overlapping mission statements. Unlike the DoD and NASA, both of which are regularly audited for program management efficacy, progress towards goals, verification and validation of milestones, and the like, these other cabinets were established by our grandparents or great-grandparents, in a time of emotional reasoning and limited information sharing. They have "forever funding" and no clear goal or issue to be resolved with permanence.
Instead of solving problems, the two party, republicrat system uses OPM (Office of Personnel Management, or Other People's Money) to house and feed the legion of party faithful, those who serve not to fix issues for We the People, but to assist the candidates in their never ending quest for incumbency.
So don't be surprised to see the number of shrill, race-baiting, gender-baiting, propaganda start increasing as the election approaches. Hillary 2016 will be the first-pumping mantra for the for the two primary, blue city, propaganda streams as the Presidential election approaches. The pseudo-liberal, modern democratic party leadership will say or do anything to protect the executive cabinets from a slim down or "Reverse BRAC". The New York and Los Angeles propaganda streams will be working overtime to steer the election. Their gravy train is on the line too.
Remember just how far they are willing to go -- in the aftermath of Ferguson, the President spoke out against the nation's police, even though the teen in question was proven to have "bum rushed" an armed officer. Within days, two cops were dead in NYC, and one was shot in the face in Ferguson. The race baiting paused temporarily, but the streams were flooded again as an angry teen was handcuffed by a white officer this week.
Note that, in nation of 300 M. people, 1 M of them cops, and an unknown number of armed felons walking the streets, an occasional tragedy is going to happen. Welcome to planet earth, it happens to white families too. A true liberal might manage this by erasing most of the laws and regulations every few decades. The Libertarians sometime make recommendations along these lines.
True liberals and scientists would let service levels and wages float. We'd transition much of the executive cabinets and their funding to the private sector -- and use modern management techniques to insure problems are actually solved. HUD has been funded to the tune of 30 B. a year for decades, but a house is still terribly expensive and difficult to buy for most people. Perhaps the brightest people in the private sector could be tasked to find a way to make a comfortable home that is as easy and cheap to buy as a car.
Why any executive cabinet needs more than about 10-20 tenured, PhD level management experts is puzzling, unless one considers the nati
The CEOs just want to portray the menial jobs as 'cool' so they can reduce wages even further.
Every bit as fun as fire island.
of course black children have been studied to death.
including genetic twins raised in different cities.
minnesota twins studies for 20 years since 1959 : ... proves humans are similar to all other mammals regarding IQ being genetic. 10 billion dollars USA spent on Head Start program also came to same conclusion.
http://www.livescience.com/472...
Everyone likes to downvote science and facts on slashdot.
IQ never changes upward after birth, poor nutrition can make it go down, but never up.
I call shenanigans.
http://www.pnas.org/content/96/15/8790.short
Duyme, et. al, "How can we boost IQs of “dull children”?: A late adoption study", Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, vol. 96 no. 15, 8790–8794, 1999)
shows that a cohort of a few dozen "deprived" children who had low IQs and who were adopted between the ages of 4 and 6 gained several IQ points between a measurement taken during or before the adoption proceeding and another measurement taken later (I only read the abstract, it infers but does not clearly state that the later measurements were during adolescence).
I would like to add a personal anecdote:
I know of an adult who suffered severe amnesia during college. He lost the memory of his family and childhood, but he remembered his skills. Remarkably, his ability to learn new things quickly skyrocketed. That ability lasted several years. I don't know if he mentioned IQ or not, but I would imagine that if he had taken a professional IQ test a few months before the event and a year or two after, his measured IQ would be notably higher.
On another anecdote, and part of the reason why I'm posting anon:
My measured IQ has dropped over the last 15 years, over and above any drop attributable to the Flynn Effect. I don't blame malnutrition - I blame stress. Thankfully I'm still north of 120 but where I probably could have passed a MENSA test in my early 20s I probably couldn't get in that way now. I might be able to get in through GRE (graduate-school entrance exam) test as I could still probably crack the 98th percentile, but that's only if the tests haven't been totally re-done since the last time I took one.
What you wrote, Mr. AC, is just plain stupid. Good nutrition allows the brain to properly and fully develop. Poor nutrition prevents the same. IQ cannot be measured at birth. Any human given proper nutrition from birth will achieve their full intellectual potential when provided a good education in a mentally stimulating environment. IQ test results go up and down somewhat depending on the degree of alertness of the person taking the test. You sure wrote a lot of words to present so little of substance. Now, go eat some veggies, run a few laps, and then think about your state of mind. It could use some improvement.
I have always wondered: what's with you white nationalists and anti-Semitism? You keep promoting the IQ and ancestral civilization of white people, except for hating the subgroup with the highest IQs and exactly the sort of prosperity-promoting civilized moral values you claim to promote elsewhere within the race.
It's one thing if women - or men - avoid a career because because they are uninterested in the task itself, the intrinsic rewards (possibly one reason some men enjoy labor-intensive work), or the non-intrinsic rewards like a paycheck, career advancement, etc., or they realize the intrinsic physical risks to themselves or the intrinsic lack-of-physical-qualifications on their part (one reason few if any women will ever aspire to be NFL linebackers even if the NFL would let them).
It's a whole different thing if women - or men - avoid a career because they perceive that they will be discriminated against or because of a work environment that is hostile to their gender.
The same arguments go for other large identifiable sub-groups, including groups based on skin color, college alumni, language-speaking ability (beyond what is necessary for the career or job), religious affiliation, what neighborhood you live in, what kind of car you drive, what hobbies you have, what clubs you belong to, what charities you support, what decade you were born in, what state/country/culture/sub-culture you were raised in, etc.
The mere existence of a "good old boy's club" that
1) excludes or pushes away people for reasons other than those directly related to work, and
2) that a reasonable employee would believe he has to "join" in order to be treated fairly at work
has no place in a professional environment.
Where such "clubs" arise independently of work, such as if 75% of the people in a department all have kids in the same school and they work with each other on school-related projects, it's the responsibility of those "in the club" and possibly the responsibility of management to make sure that work-related business is conducted in a way that doesn't exclude the other 25%. This doesn't mean it's always inappropriate to talk about work outside of work, it's just that you need to limit the talk to topics where the "missing 25%" wouldn't be part of the conversation anyways. "Nice job on the McClary project, Bob" would be a one-on-one conversation whether at work or at your kid's school. "Say, what do you all think about pizza instead of sandwiches for the big presentation next week" is a conversation that everyone, not just the 75% who happen to be working on a joint project at your kid's school, needs to be a part of.
Remember the 80s? Software developers were interviewing potential businesses for the best salary and benefits. As a remedy large software development firms have tried outsourcing but it doesn't work. Now they're trying H1B and being more inclusive of under-represented cheaper labor. Most CEOs don't care about diversity; they absolutely care about growing the value of the company and the monetary value of their stake in the business. The latest strategy likely will have some success. Once this plays out they'll move on the the next great idea.
When I was a video game tester and a lead video game tester for six years, most people told me that I have a "fun" job. My answer always mystified them, "It's fun for the first six weeks."
Working at a video game company isn't fun and games. Testers test video games, testers don't play video games. A distinction that most people don't get. Something that fresh out of school newbies have to learn the hard way when they get a job in the video game industry. Most don't last more than two months.
When I worked at Google for a while, most people told me that I have a "fun" job. Uh, no. Not when you're working at light speed and that's barely fast enough to keep up with everyone else. I've worked at many companies since Google that claimed to have a "fast pace" work environment, but none have matched the insanity at Google. Most companies don't have enough work to keep me busy every day.
I don't go to work to have fun. I go to work to get paid.
It should also be noted that in those same studies..... whites are pretty moronically stupid in comparison to their asian cousins :p
Actualy a white's IQ level (which is used as a "base" also) is *on average* at 100, an (Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc) Asian's is at 105 (other Asians, e.g., Indians, Arabs are much less than that, about 90), and a black's at 80...
So, it is the blacks who have a very low IQ (if i use YOUR words: "moronically stupid in comparison to" others). A good starting point for -scientific- research (without so much of the other "stuff" that are usual in this kind of discussions) is the book "The Bell Curve" - contains many IQ studies.
Unfortunately this fact (i.e., blacks have lower IQ than other races) is so problematic to discuss because it "paints" anyone who express it as a racist who *hates* blacks - i am a racist, but i don't hate blacks, i just believe in racial differences (actually, i believe that i love blacks more than many people who try to suppress their low IQ fact, because i think that they can be helped socially if we recognize the *biological* fact, in the right way: there is a reason we WHITES have special education programs for our WHITES with low IQ...)
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
I have always wondered: what's with you white nationalists and anti-Semitism?
Well, at least this guy was socially astute to not use "the N word", unlike the other troll who uses it IN ALL CAPS.
It paid off. For awhile, his post was moderated as "2 - informative." Then I modded it down as flamebait but it was still showing as "1 - informative." Now it's "-1 - flamebait" where it belongs.
I guess people modded him informative because they "assumed good faith" (side-note: Slashdot is not Wikipedia) If he had been correct in his facts and if there weren't counter-examples to demonstrate that even if his statements were grammatically true they were intellectually deceiving, and if they said something true and informative (which they did not) which most readers did not already know, a post like that would in fact be informative. He failed on all counts except 1: He was smart enough to not be a prima facia troll. You actually had to do more than just skim for commonly-used flame-bait words to see that he was a troll.
IQ tests only measure how good someone is about taking IQ tests--and yes, that is a skill.
Mensa for example, is packed with idiots; just look at how well the Mesa investment club has been doing over the past 30 years. Reading comprehension is another thing the Mensa members seems to have a problem with. Then there's actual logic and recognizing things like pseudo-science and logical fallacies--given that most can't seem to recognize basic assumptions. Fuck, a huge percentage of the high IQ group club even seems to fail basic history.
JFC. All we have done in the last 15 year, and probably before that, is try to encourage women and minorities to enter the field. Everywhere I've worked since college has had targeted recruiting for women and minorities. One company would spend a lot of money on recruiting trips to HBCUs and HWCUs and the only other university they visit is the local state school because it's only a day trip. We have had outreach programs at all levels of education, even driving down into elementary schools, to make STEM look "cool" particularly for women and minorities, whatever that means. My current company even set up a program for several of the local elementary schools that was girl only. It went on for two years until the local school board said they couldn't exclude students based on gender.
IF there is a problem, and I stress IF, then it isn't that we aren't doing enough.
"will achieve their full intellectual potential" OK fine put it this way then "full intelectual potential" does not increase from birth. Is that better?
Liberals will do mental back flips to argue against just about anything being innate (except when it comes to sexual orientation, that they correctly admit is innate).
Intelligence and ability and drive all have aspects that cannot be measured by an IQ test. There are many different types of intelligence.
Most of my friends and coworkers (many of them smart) make little attempt to consistently eat healthy and often don't have a good idea of what eating healthy is (one small example, if you buy "non fat" yogurt over regular yogurt, I would say you don't get it).
If you not smart enough to eat healthy and it reflects so very slightly in a few lost IQ points then that is on you and your intelligence.
And if you buy into the oft stated liberal canard that poor people cannot afford to eat healthy then you don't know what you are talking about. You can eat healthy for the same amount of money that you would use to eat unhealthy. (Just stand in line behind a typical food stamp user in a grocery store and behold a bounty of steaks and junk food).
I am bi-racial, not that it should matter in regards to the veracity of my statements.
Why do the MRAs have to wade in on every discussion about this? We get it, you don't want to read or comment on these stories, so why do you keep doing it?
Why do MRAs keep repeating what everyone already knows? Of course it's about equal opportunity, not equal outcome... It's even called "equal opportunity" in many places.
More to the point, why don't they get that hiring it always done on merit? It's been discussed often enough, and they claim to be fed up of reading about it, yet the message hasn't sunk in. It's obvious, all the discussionn is about finding ways to get more women to apply in the first place, not giving them an easier time at interview or making the tests easier for them or giving them an easier job. I can't fathom where the MRAs got this idea from, because they never point to any evidence of it happening (well, except the odd anecdote from some pissed off dude who got passed over for a job/promotion and so it must be sexism, because how else could they not be the best??!)
Then there is the classic "why aren't there more women collecting rubbish or in prison". What kind of idiot tries to "improve" the situation by making it worse? Didn't they notice the vast amount of money and time being spend trying to keep everyone out of jail (well, except in parts of America where it's an industry, but that's hardly a sexism issue)?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Actualy a white's IQ level (which is used as a "base" also) is *on average* at 100, an (Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc) Asian's is at 105 (other Asians, e.g., Indians, Arabs are much less than that, about 90), and a black's at 80...
What's the average Greek IQ?
Since we Greeks are whites i guess somewhere close to 100 (i believe a bit lower than 100 - of the whites, the most inteligent, more than the average, i think are -Ashkenazi- Jews).
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
If your job was paying more than you could have ever expected to earn in your entire life, an employer that's demanding might actually not bother you all that much.
Consider that those working the factories are in that position relative to where they were.
We cannot be bothered to read the article. Now you want us to read the post before moderating it? Surely you ask too much!
I do not generally moderate and, even with posting and an excellent karma, the system seems to have figured that out as I do not seem to get mod points much any more. I am not one to judge others very much so moderating seems a bit uncomfortable to me.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
"why don't they get that hiring it always done on merit?"
Because it isn't ?
2-1 bias in favor of women ! :
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/17/5360.abstract
Tim Cook is another BS CEO who uses this kind of stuff to boost Apple's image. Rather then doing something about it. He points fingers at Google or some other competitor. Did anyone read how some Apple store employee's complain about having to go through a search before leaving and that this has to be done clocked out. Our the countless violations in their factories and suppliers. Not to mention the suicides or the fact many of these people will never be able to afford any Apple product themselves. The reason for lack of diversity in technology is simply a matter of educational interest from certain groups or the lack of. Sure, I'll bet getto areas of cities probably have some of the worst technology opportunities which obviously affect the future of students. But that goes for science, the arts or whatever. It has become a fact that the more affluent area you get an education, the more opportunity you have. But I don't see Tim Cook or Apple donating some of that hoard of money they have to affect this outcome. Its just more feel good marketing to make Apple look good and others look bad. In my mind Cook is no better then Jobs was towards really making a difference. They both appear to be more about Apple then about people.
Why do the MRAs have to wade in on every discussion about this? We get it, you don't want to read or comment on these stories, so why do you keep doing it?
Because MRAs are the majority opinion by a wide margin. The pushback would be just as strong if vegans started vilifying people for eating meat using the same shrill rhetoric used by the social justice movement.
Tim Cook doesn't give a shit about minorities or women for that matter. The reason he is saying this is so there there will be more programmers in the pool to choose from. More programmers means that Apple and others can get away with paying lower wages, since there will be more qualified candidates to choose from. It's the same reason that they all support more H1-B visas - flood the market with programmers and drive down salaries.
Just like everything else in business, it's all about the money.
As the ideological counterpart to feminists, it's kind of their thing.
You misunderstand. They clearly enjoy reading and commenting on these stories. What they don't want is for Tim Cook to spout a bunch of horseshit about women in technology when Apple very obviously does not give a shit.
So you're admitting that there is no problem, and that all of this noise about women in technology is bullshit?
I think I figured out why everything you say is directly contradicted by reality, you clearly live in Bizarro World.
Unfortunately, because so many more men are incarcerated than women it is, in fact, a sexism issue - by your own standards, no less.
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Where's the Walrus Pit!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
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Brutal honesty, women just don't like risk. Getting pregnant and having the responsibility for an utterly dependent infant does that. Women dominated programming when it was low-risk, 9-5 corporate. Think IBM and EDS. Most of the mainframe programmers were women.
The Superstar or peon model of PC driven programming, made worse by a massive influx of cheap, H1-B programmers from India where rape seems the national sport and women are treated as dirt has made everything worse. Get rid of the H1-Bs, particularly the Indians who are not only odious in their treatment of women but produce general disgust by most women in terms of hygiene and grooming and personal aspect; and make jobs low-risk, 9-5 and middle class?
You'd see about 50% of the workforce in programming be women.
Choose. Cheap H1-B Indian guys where women are routinely raped and killed on public buses; where a few superstars make enormous money and most make only peanuts working 60+ hours a week? Women will be scarcer than Hens Teeth. But hey, Oligarchs like Zuckerberg need a lot more billions.
Really any supremacist must have cripplingly low self esteem. The best thing they can say about themselves isn't that they are talented - isn't that they are strong, or beautiful, are successful or even that they have a good lifestyle either in the "loads of fun" or righteous but that they're of race foo. Talk about damning with faint praise.
Women have a 2:1-4:1 advantage over men in getting STEM field jobs, and utterly dominate the entirety of education to the point of being nearly 2/3rds of graduates. Meanwhile men utterly dominate homelessness, workplace deaths, and are many times more likely to be convicted and incarcerated than a woman is for the same crime. In fact the criminal justice system is SO anti-man that a white male is more likely to go to prison than a black female for the same crime.
But you keep throwing "MRA" into almost every line and paragraph in your posts desperately trying to erase the reality of the situation.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
MRAs don't really exist. They are a phantom, a strawman invented by your fascist mind to justify the bile, hate and betrayal you and your kind have hoisted on geekdom.
We're the same geeks and nerds on Slashdot that we have been since forever. We are not sexists, or rascists, or anti-women, or MRAs, or transphobic, or PUAs, or cis-centric, or any of the other libels you throw at us. We're just geeks and we are tired of being shat on by you people.
You've changed. I'm talking to a low six digit UID who probably joined the cult-like social justice at some point, but before that didn't have the level of self loathing and geek loathing they do now. It's depressing to see a Slashdot poster fall to authoritarian, and creationist-like dogma, but we're tired of indulging your increasingly fantastical tirades.
Stop straw-manning people who are just sick of being insulted, shamed, and bullied for things they didn't do.
Go back to SRS.
people put stickers effectively saying "GUNS HERE" on their houses / cars all the time. It might lead to crooks waiting until the house is empty before going inside and cracking open the safe, but the scenario your retard brain has dreamed up just doesn't happen.
Because they are a "race" that never managed to discover the wheel, let alone architecture, metal tools, the bow & arrow, literature etc.
They are much less likely to be breastfed, which can change IQ by 3 points.
Not to detract from your main point, but breast feeding is one of those topics which has been highly politicized and any weird claims like this should be taken with a grain of salt. I've read a study claiming what you say (can't find it now), here's another study claiming that isn't true. There are many more. Enough that I think you'd need to be an expert in the field in order to sort between them.
Usually though, when researchers start dickering over this sort of thing, what you can say for sure is that whatever the effect may be it isn't large enough or definitive enough to shut up all the people who are wrong about it. So at the end of the day it likely doesn't matter.
Unfortunately this fact (i.e., blacks have lower IQ than other races) is so problematic to discuss because it "paints" anyone who express it as a racist who *hates* blacks - i am a racist, but i don't hate blacks, i just believe in racial differences (actually, i believe that i love blacks more than many people who try to suppress their low IQ fact, because i think that they can be helped socially if we recognize the *biological* fact, in the right way: there is a reason we WHITES have special education programs for our WHITES with low IQ...)
Interesting. I agree, and same goes for women who tend to whinge a lot these days about their situation. There is no doubt that Western European men led the charge of human development, regardless of race. So those who can trace their heritage via that line have had historical advantages, even if you have more melanin than someone else. The good news is the the difference is not too big that it can't be corrected, and anyone who has access to the same levels of nutrition, social structure, health and education can achieve the same level as anyone else.
It's important to distinguish between racism (discrimination) and recognition of physiological differences between humans.
Actualy a white's IQ level (which is used as a "base" also) is *on average* at 100, an (Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc) Asian's is at 105 (other Asians, e.g., Indians, Arabs are much less than that, about 90), and a black's at 80...
What's the average Greek IQ?
If you exclude our annoying fascistic fried here around 100 but even given the size of the greek population once you include him it drops to around 23 or so.
Andy Warhol got it right / Everybody gets the limelight
Andy Warhol got it wrong / Fifteen minutes is too long.
Unfortunately this fact (i.e., blacks have lower IQ than other races) is so problematic to discuss because it "paints" anyone who express it as a racist who *hates* blacks - i am a racist, but i don't hate blacks, i just believe in racial differences (actually, i believe that i love blacks more than many people who try to suppress their low IQ fact, because i think that they can be helped socially if we recognize the *biological* fact, in the right way: there is a reason we WHITES have special education programs for our WHITES with low IQ...)
Interesting. I agree, and same goes for women who tend to whinge a lot these days about their situation. There is no doubt that Western European men led the charge of human development, regardless of race. So those who can trace their heritage via that line have had historical advantages, even if you have more melanin than someone else. The good news is the the difference is not too big that it can't be corrected, and anyone who has access to the same levels of nutrition, social structure, health and education can achieve the same level as anyone else. It's important to distinguish between racism (discrimination) and recognition of physiological differences between humans.
I am not just racist (as i already mentioned) but also sexist, i.e., i believe that racial differences and differences between the sexes exist - i agree that it's important to distinguish between racial/sexual discrimination and recognition of physiological differences between races/sexes, although i also believe in a "healthy discrimination" (in a "good spirit"... if you can understand MY spirit!) that can help races/sexes socially.
The most important thing in my opinion is to not suppress scientific facts because of some "political correctness" and/or (worse) political intimidation - it is unproductive, and, at the end, surely not helpfull for those who are "problematic" (e.g., in the case of our discussion, i.e., IQ differences between races, the black race).
As i already mentioned, and as an example, i find that special education for those of lower IQ (in our case, both white retards -note: retards in the well known medical term- AND *average* blacks in general), is what would be socially useful (and helpfull for both the society generally AND those getting this special education specifically), but here is the political problem: imagine proposing such a plan....!
I am a Greek. I remember my school as a child and our special education class for retards (everyone there was Greek, i.e., no other races, just white kids of very low IQ), and i remember some of those kids (one of them was my "friend"): if this descrimination was not possible, those kids could not get ANY education (an education that made some of them capable to exist in society productively). I understand how bigoted i sound when i compare blacks to white retards (and how problematic this analogy is), but how else a discussion about such an issue can exist?
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
He might enjoy bunking with 8000 young workers.
I am a Greek. I remember my school as a child and our special education class for retards (everyone there was Greek, i.e., no other races, just white kids of very low IQ),
Where I live, Greeks would not consider themselves "white". Years ago we used to have a lot of racial tension between "whites" and greeks. That seems to have blown over now that we have a new enemy* in the Chinese and Arabs.
*perceived by populist media
"When I was a kid, while other boys where learning how to talk to girls, I spent a lot of time working through puzzle books and doing recreational mathematics." So because girls don't have a hard time talking to girls they don't get good at puzzles and math? Brilliant!
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
I am a Greek. I remember my school as a child and our special education class for retards (everyone there was Greek, i.e., no other races, just white kids of very low IQ),
Where I live, Greeks would not consider themselves "white". Years ago we used to have a lot of racial tension between "whites" and greeks. That seems to have blown over now that we have a new enemy* in the Chinese and Arabs. *perceived by populist media
If we accept the 3 "basic" races (whites-Caucasians, blacks-Africans, Asians-Mongolians), we Greeks are whites - among that general white race we can say that we are Southern-Mediterranean whites (like Italians for example, or Jews, i.e., different from Slavs for example) - remember that we Greeks are (in)famous for trying to differentiate ourselves from the rest of the world all the time, even if that means to be self-excluded from the "white race" (i am well known in Slashdot for my usual "we Greeks, you Barbarians..." thing!). NOTE: of course there are some whites who may claim that we Greeks (or Italians, or Jews) are not white, but i think that is usually an "inner-white race" civil war!
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
...in general we haven't done enough to reach out and show young women that it's cool to do it [tech] and how much fun it can be...
Isn't it time we started waking up to the fact that computing and technology isn't about 'cool' or 'fun'? And wouldn't it be better to show that little bit of respect to young men and women, to not expect that the only thing they could possibly have an interest in is 'cool' and 'fun'? Most young, clever people simply want to get to grips with life in a serious way, to develop their skills and feel they are doing something wortwhile. Why else do so many young choose careers that are demanding?
Technology is for the most part demanding, it is difficult to learn and to be successful with, but that is exactly why it is so hugely rewarding. Some of my greatest moment with code had little to do with anything that you could call fun or cool - it was things like writing my first COBOL and FORTRAN programs (how uncool is that?), discovering how good it is to use vi, writing my first Java Enterprise application (a pathetic little thing, I can assure you), installing and IPLing OS/360 on a Hercules emulator.
Good SW Engineers are not people who think it is cool or fun - if that is your approach to life, then you'll probably end up writing worhtless apps with a minimum of effort, serving adverts to an unwilling public, run-of-the-mill stuff. A good SW Engineer is somebody who enjoys doing these things for their own sake, for the joy of discovery.
Are you claiming it's OK that there's bias against women in one field because there's bias against men in another?
Perhaps you should realise that doubling down on bias just doubles the shittyness, and as such it's a terrible reason to continue. The sensible thing would be to try to remove bias. On that note, since you care about such things as the problems in the criminal justice system, what have you done about it? Or are you just whining all over the internet that someone else hasn't done anything about it for you? If so, it's hard to believe you actually care.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
If you have to help, encourage, hand-up, set aside jobs, reconstruct the work culture and environment for, women, then they just aren't motivated to do it, whatever it is, including tech. Women are half the population of the world and the species. You can't keep them from doing what they want to do. If they naturally do not want to do tech, leave it be. It is just the forcing, once again, of a secondary standard, a woman's standard, to primacy. All feminish men (men who accept the female worldview and agenda, even to the point of denying real differences) like Cook will accomplish is the destruction of male aggressive creativity in tech. This continuing war on males and male attributes must end if we desire to continue as a powerhouse of tech in the world.
E Proelio Veritas.
No, we're saying that if women/etc. demand total, "Harrison Bergeron"-esque equality, they damned well are going to have to take ALL of it, not just the parts that benefit them.
Check *your* privilege, ladies, 'cause if you want to take away "male privilege", you're going to have to give up your own.
This is clearly a case of geographic difference. Black, White and Yellow seems a bit simplistic, but I guess it depends on where you live and who else you have around you.
We have a mixed bag here, so Greeks get bundled in with Italians and Middle Eastern brown skin races and labelled "Wogs" (which can either be offensive or friendly depending on your intent)
Black, White and Yellow (with white and yellow being developed from the black) seems a bit simplistic but it is the best start as the most basic racial classification (that is also confirmed genetically, i.e., not just by appearance) - you can add also the Malay and Native American (also genetically valid) for a more complex 5 basic races classification (plus a general "mixed", specifying further the mixed parts if you like). From there you can only specify subgroups for the (3 or 5) basic races (e.g, we Greeks, the -Southern- Italians and the Jews are whites but surely not Notherns/Westerns, plus Persian/Kurds/-many/most- Indians are also whites but Turks/Egyptians/most Arabs are mixed - between whites and blacks). It becomes extra problematic because most people confuse race with culture (e.g., Persians are whites even if they are Muslims, plus -most- Arabs was originaly whites but were mixed with blacks, while Jews, originaly like Arabs, avoided to be mixed with blacks -they mixed with other white subgroups- so even if Jews and Arabs are Semitic they are not the same anymore). For example, we Greeks are a bit darker than Germans (but no so much IF WE ARE NOT EXPOSED TO SUN), but almost all Greek kids have "blondism" (even me, a dark haired Greek, when i was a kid i was more blonde) - by recent genetical studies (which are very unpopular as you understand because... political uncorrect!) it is clear that we are in that white group (but a distinct subgroup, like the basques for example - our genes can be found in the middle East also, because of our history, but middle Eastern genes are not found in Greeks...). Please note that while i am a "biological" racist that finds this very interesting, i am surely NOT an expert, plus that i am more of a nationalist believing more in "cultural" racesism, so...
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
Hm. I had always heard that IQ trends upwards until about 18 at which time it starts declining ever so slightly until death. Certain things like music can increase IQ as well.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
I had always heard that IQ trends upwards until about 18 at which time it starts declining ever so slightly until death
Most people don't make the same active effort to improve their brain that they've been making until high school.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Idiots like you give racism a bad name. Learn to write.
No, what gives racists a bad name is being racist.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Actualy a white's IQ level (which is used as a "base" also) is *on average* at 100, an (Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc) Asian's is at 105 (other Asians, e.g., Indians, Arabs are much less than that, about 90), and a black's at 80...
What's the average Greek IQ?
Somewhat less than the average Greek IOU.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
There are no biological facts here. Different groups have different IQs for various reasons, since IQ tests do not measure raw intelligence potential. Heck, if you took a modern IQ test and used it on the typical white of a century ago, the result would be roughly around 85.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
There are no biological facts here. Different groups have different IQs for various reasons, since IQ tests do not measure raw intelligence potential. Heck, if you took a modern IQ test and used it on the typical white of a century ago, the result would be roughly around 85.
I think that IQ level differences between (racial) groups IS PROOF that IQ is effected (mostly) by biology (a.k.a. physiology) (if you accept that those -differences and groups- exist, as i do) - what are those "various reasons"?
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
You are overlooking that there are large differences in IQs based on other factors. Look up the Flynn effect. Back around 1930, the average American had what would now be an IQ around 80. They weren't genetically different from the average American nowadays. There's debate on what caused the difference, but by citing an average black IQ score of 80 you're putting them on a par with the 1930 US.
Shall we just accept the biological fact that 1930s US people were inferior?
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
You are overlooking that there are large differences in IQs based on other factors. Look up the Flynn effect. Back around 1930, the average American had what would now be an IQ around 80. They weren't genetically different from the average American nowadays. There's debate on what caused the difference, but by citing an average black IQ score of 80 you're putting them on a par with the 1930 US.
Shall we just accept the biological fact that 1930s US people were inferior?
I don't overlook them, i just think you may overestimate their effect, and in any case (most of) those other factors are still biological/physiological (e.g., nutrition) - yes, i think the white race's IQ level was in the (far) past where the black's is now (and i think that the black's level can be elevated... not so much, not so quickly, but surely it can - just by better nutricion it can gain at least 1-3 IQ points in the next few generations).
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
I have been working as a developer for 15 years, most of the time as a consultant but I also worked for Google for a period. I would NEVER EVER choose a CS program at university if I was 20 again and knew what I knew today. I much rather cut my salary 30% or more and work with something "softer" or classical humanistic, maybe a vet. There is no satisfaction in this job (ok, maybe one day a month I go home and feel satisfied with something). A lot of the times you develop features that you hate and would never use yourself (my favorite example of this is when I was working for a telco and developed the administrative system for ring back music).
Computers and programming are nice as hobbies, but the only good thing with working with them are the rather good salaries. However money gets old very fast. You are not gonna lay on your deathbed and feel good about how much you shopped in your life. If you hate everything about interacting with other humans then IT is probably a good business to work in, otherwise, do something else. Money is not the most important thing in life.
Is it just me or does OP seem to be stretching a little bit in the last few sentences to try and segue an article about US gender diversity into another dig at the working conditions in China.
Look, I'd like for all the people in China to have nice jobs, and be treated well, breathe clean air and eat double quarter pounders whenever they want to as much as the next guy. But stop blaming Apple for this not happening. Apple strides to set restrictions on their manufacturing partners that have been steadily improving pay and working conditions at those locations, and has gone farther in this regard than most, and even farther than many of their investors would like to see done.
Blame yourselves. The reason that Apple can't push harder for workers rights in China is that beyond using it as an Apple-hateboy talking point we don't actually care. If we did, then we'd be voting with our wallets, paying to buy phones that are "Work Dormitory Free" or "8 hour shifts with nice benefits - Gluten Free", but we don't. If Apple provided a "Good Conscience" iPhone, it would likely cost $1,500 and would be a worse market flop than the Kindle -- Though maybe it's worth a try just so that they can say, "Hey, we tried to give you the option to by manufactured and made in the USA, and you bought the cheap one".
- Holy crap, I've got MOD points! Who thought that was a good idea.