Slashdot Mirror
Anti-Uber Taxi Protest Blocks Access To Airports In France
An anonymous reader writes: Taxi drivers in France have been complaining that a recently passed law against unlicensed commercial drivers is being flouted by Uber, and going relatively unenforced by authorities. They claim to have lost 30% of their income to Uber over the past two years, and they've become fed-up with the situation. The taxi drivers have now started an indefinite, nation-wide strike in protest. Part of that strike involves blocking access to Paris's Roissy airport as well as the main road encircling the city. Protesters have also blocked access to train stations in Merseille and Aix. "The drivers — who have to pay thousands of euros for a license — say they are being unfairly undercut by Uber, which is not licensed by the authorities. Prosecutors have cracked down on Uber, filing almost 500 legal cases involving complaints about UberPOP. About 100 attacks on Uber drivers and passengers have been reported in recent weeks."
Arrest the bastards. They're a danger and a nuisance.
Uber is taking away our right to treat customers like shit! Now these Uber drivers with their fancy daily bathing practices, non-arrogant attitudes, and actual fair pricing are taking wine from our baby's mouths! WE WANT OUR MONOPOLY BACK!!!
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
If you want to quit your job, or go on strike, or just not work well at your job, that's between you and your employer. If you're not happy with the government, go protest at a government building.
However, you don't get to stop others from getting where they're going. That's what a gang does. It's physical violence (unless you come up with some non-physical form of stopping people from getting where they're going, but I imagine this is the typical "let's set up a barrier and beat up anyone that climbs it" gang mentality). Hopefully the police restore order through arrests.
You call for a ride, and arrest/fine the driver when her or she arrives. It's not like they're hiding out in the mountains of Afghanistan.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
They can protest the uneven playing field.... but attacking uber drivers just because they are taking a chunk of the customer base is way off line.... Jimmy Hoffa would be proud.
I don't really have very strong feelings in this debate, but that kind of protesting isn't acceptable. Standing outside a government building or your company's HQ to protest, that's perfectly fine. However, once you start interfering with other people's lives (who aren't involved in this at all), I view that as unacceptable and utterly puerile. While I don't call for arrests like the other people who've posted ahead of me, I do hope the police force open the roads.
"Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
I guess the name Uber would upset the French, after all they get to hear deutschland über alles everytime the Germans invade...
Technically, they should already have 'a monopoly'. They're putting up these blocks because the government is unwilling or unable to actually enforce previously existing laws OR the new law that was passed back in October 2014.
And since governments don't take too kindly to protests against its own institution (you may protest.. you know, somewhere out in a field where nobody's bothered by it, sees it, and you accomplish nothing - there's a good little citizen), they've taken to these measures.
Whether that will result in the law getting enforced, or ferrying people about is turned into a free for all (in which case the 'official' taxi drivers should not have to get a license and pay for that either), for the time being they have every right to be upset; not so much at Uber, but certainly at the French government.
Though if you think this is bad - keep an eye on Calais and the French government's unwillingness to deal with that clusterfuck.
You'll want to avoid Paris in general when travelling by air; pick a different airport to change flights if you can. Good advice from my travel agent. If it isn't the cabbies on strike, it'll be the air traffic controllers, baggage handlers, caterers, customs officers, cleaning staff, or the guys with the lollipos guiding the planes to the terminal.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
WRONG!
the government offer FREE OF CHARGE all taxi license in france. Taxi drivers create a BLACK market selling license as high as 250'000 euros! are they paying taxes on this sum? are they controlled? i dont think so
If it's so hard to be a taxi driver.
Why don't the cab drivers move to Uber so they don't have to pay the licensing fees and are on an even playing field?
It's "Marseille," not Merseille. Merci.
If the police won't enforce the law against unlicensed commercial drivers providing taxi services using improperly licensed vehicles, then what choice do those following the law have?
The fact of the matter is that Uber's business model appears to be, "We're on the Internet, so we don't have to follow your regulations."
Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
I don't really have very strong feelings in this debate, but that kind of protesting isn't acceptable. Standing outside a government building or your company's HQ to protest, that's perfectly fine. However, once you start interfering with other people's lives (who aren't involved in this at all), I view that as unacceptable and utterly puerile. While I don't call for arrests like the other people who've posted ahead of me, I do hope the police force open the roads.
I believe it is exercising the 'l' part to create a sense of 'f' for the purposes of producing 'e'. The previous system of everyone caring only about themselves resulted in those who thought more of themselves having a meeting with monsieur guillotine. C'est la vie!!!
Protests in France? It must be one of the days of the week ending in Y.
or the guys with the lollipos guiding the planes to the terminal.
you're british. this is a british idiom.
You'll want to avoid Paris in general
That's been great advice pretty much since the city was founded.
Protesters have also blocked access to train stations in Merseille and Aix.
Merseille? Where that?
Watch this Heartland Institute video
The acceptance or otherwise of a market disrupter like Uber is a good predictor of the future progress and well-being of a country or locality. If statists rule and the status quo becomes a reason unto itself, then expect a drift downwards. The results are not immediate, it is a slow process. First you have France, then Greece, then Cuba, and finally North Korea.
On the other hand, if you welcome change and are willing to let the buggy whip makers perish, then you are Silicon Valley, the USA, South Korea, and more recently Albania, China and India.
I hasten to add for nitpickers that my examples are not perfect - they illustrate a trend. An once again a reminder that there is a delay between cause and effect.
Anyway, on this basis France is finished.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
Sooo.... why don't the taxi drivers just quit their jobs and go work for Uber instead?
Like, seriously?
Wtf is the problem?
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
I'm having an out-of-band experience with mostly headlice on Tooter and Fleeceback!
I can't find a poll to express my important opinion -- has anyone seen the polls? They're not at the coroner where they should be...
It looks like the Yutoob has mixed up javascripts and teh htmls because there sure are lots and lots and lots of videos puked up all over the page. Maybe the Yutoob "dropped" some phat vidz on the ./ FP yo?
Keep up the fine progress forward into infinity and beyond the wild blue yonder where angels fear to tread
I was unaware of that. I thought he was just being clever.
Thank you for expanding my knowledge. I have now learned two things about it.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
The difference is that when these protesters break the law it inconveniences people. When uber breaks the law, it actually makes people's lives more convenient.
Is that better than you taking away the right for Uber to treat their employees.. er, contractors? No.. Let's just call them phone associates with no bargaining power whatsoever... is it better that Uber is allowed to treat them like shit? Just because people will do the job doesn't mean that it's right that people are in the position that they have no choice.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
A monopoly is when one company owns the market. Therefore Taxi's aren't a monopoly. If there were only a few operators then it may be an oligopoly, but I'm afraid this isn't the case either. What the taxi industry has is known as a 'viable market'.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
This is the biggest misunderstanding when it comes to not allowing uber drivers in a city. Yes, uber threatens another business model's bottom line and they are going to fight back. However, if you are a city planner and you know that you can not in any form or fashion have unlimited vehicles in a given city, then you have to limit it by charging high license fees. Secondly, the cities in question want people to utilize public transportation more because of their costs to maintain those system and their employees.
Then you can expand this to the tin foil hat folks and state that the more employees a city/state/federal has, the more control over the populace it has....but that's another discussion.
There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
It was expected that passengers would at least be willing to compensate drivers for gasoline used, but there was also a general practice of passengers giving drivers an honorarium for their time, typically once every other week or so. The latter of these two was not actually permitted to be demanded by the driver, but it was still a general practice among club members, so in the long run, it was still profitable for a driver.
When I first saw Uber, I at first thought it that it was basically the same thing... Can someone explain why Uber can be against the law when the aforementioned carpool club was not?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
But it is a "regulated market", the regulations of which Uber is explicitly not following.
"About 100 attacks on Uber drivers and passengers have been reported in recent weeks."
Taking a page out the Unions' playbook eh?
Right, and those regulations were put in place through proper legal process. People (taxi's) trusted that legal process and entered the market. Uber's proper course of action is to fight those laws by the same legal process if they don't like them, not to run an illegal business.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Hmmm ... I'm not British, but I've heard the bright orange flashlights referred to as lollipops before.
Are you sure about that? Or is this just something you think you heard somewhere?
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
... proper course of action is to fight those laws by the same legal process if they don't like them...
You mean the hopelessly corrupt legal processes that keep entrenched interests in power?
I really don't want to live in a world where anyone has the right to ignore whatever law they wish. It seems like that is the attitude of the day though. Just do what you want and so what if you step on the toes of someone else who thought that they were protected by the legal process. If you are a member of a country, and that country allowed the regulated market to be created, at least respect that and use the process to remove the regulated market if you feel strongly about it. It's called 'civilization'.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
in Britain they have crossing guards at school entrances who hold up round stop signs on sticks. they are called lollipop men or lollipop ladies.
"Right, and those regulations were put in place through proper legal process" This is no way means its right or moral, only that a group of people decided it. Taxi regulation is corrupt to the core, so saying it was enacted by legal due process is technically correct, its also a meaningless point.
Good-bye
Driving a taxi might be the most dangerous profession in the USA,
I'm pretty sure the most dangerous profession in the USA is internet content police.
and now you have young people with no experience of the world just deciding to moonlight as a taxi driver
As opposed to deciding to do it full-time.
A taxi driver is basically a crime victim that you call and tell them where to go so they can get robbed.
Interestingly, both drivers and passengers have to log into the app in order to play.
Just another profiteering empire built off people's desperation and ignorance.
Welcome to our world. Have some capitalism.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
That's kind of funny, actually.
Nonetheless, on this side of the Atlantic, I've definitely heard those orange flashlights for moving around the planes called lollipops.
Whether it's a common term or not, I have no idea.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Certainly this is not exploitable in any way. I am so glad that Uber put in such a secure system as having to log into an app to hail a taxi. Do I have to get my identity confirmed before I can call an Uber driver?
Just to be clear, this is dramatically more than you have to do before you can call a normal taxi; all you have to have is a voice, a stated location, and access to a phone in order to get one of those. If you've logged into Uber, at least there is some kind of potentially meaningful logging involved. But you ignored this in your rush to mockery. If you had a sensible statement, you'd have made it. Clearly you didn't.
How about some fairness, distribution of resources, freedom from one's life being decided by market forces. Fuck your corrupt capitalism.
Okay, so to be clear, you are against taxi licenses? Because they actually make life harder for people who are not taxi drivers, and there are more of those people than there are taxi drivers. The people have spoken; they have said they want to be able to get unlicensed transport. Why do you want to force them to patronize a corrupt system created by politicians to produce revenue for the state?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Innovation with no restraints on free markets. But when times get tough, drivers run to the applicable labor regulator and claim status as employees. Here's an idea: Drive for Uber as a contractor or get a cab license and go to work for one of the established cab companies. Under the regulator's rules.
Have gnu, will travel.
I live in France, the Taxis charge 90 euros to drop you 20km away from the airport. Their prices are insane, it is no wonder they are making all of this stormshit to protect their cartel.
I love to study history, and I think we are in for some historic changes in the next 40 years.
the biggest change to happen is Efficiency happening to the normal people whom are not rich.
UBER is a great example, taxis are needed, but the business model that had worked is no longer
really valid for the future, so a new and efficient mode is happening. over time UBER like structures
have to/should happen and when they do, the new model will be well regulated.
Happened when ships went from sail to steam, but the longest routes were still sail, into the late
1800 early 1900, last of the sails designs were called windjammers.
again it's happening now in the shipping business... huge vessels, stuff I could never dream of
are now on the water, all in the name of efficiency.
I would not be surprised if ubers next business model would be to sell taxi fleet management
to cities.
if you see me, smile and say hello.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Apples and oranges. People rob taxi drivers because you can just get into the taxi, and they carry cash. Uber drivers are picking up people who have registered with Uber and provided a valid credit card. Now, sure, you could register, give a throwaway email address, create, fund, and provide a throwaway credit card, and then try to rob an Uber driver who might not have a single dollar on them. That implies a criminal who at the same time (a) engages in some reasonably sophisticated planning, and (b) decides to go after a very low-yield target.
... it must be Thursday.
Uber thought they were the disrupters.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
No one is forcing anyone to use a transportation service.
That's more than a bit disingenuous, because a lot of people are in a position where nothing else will really do.
Would you want an Uber version of airplanes?
Yes.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
When you have to mod people Troll for sharing their opinion, you know you're wrong, and your argument can't stand on its own. Thanks for the validation — I shall post twice as many pro-Uber messages.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Uber is a company which provides an app and additional technology using cheapest labor (average driver) on the back of cheap labor (taxi drivers) to generate lots of money for those who already have enough. Therefore, do not use Uber. Do not support Uber. Instead support the protest.
Consider that, instead of robbing someone of a few dollars, generating a bogus Uber account could make it considerably easier to steal a car.
I'd say that makes an Uber driver anything other than a "low-yield target."
Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
From a Telegraph article:
In recent weeks nearly 100 Uber drivers have been attacked, sometimes while carrying customers. In one case, a taxi passenger was left with a broken face and black eye after he praised Uber.
Cabbies attacked the van of Julien Cinquin, a motorist at Porte Maillot, slashing his tyres and the rear window and throwing a banger in the back seat.
The taxi drivers have the right to protest peacefully. But to attack other people - no.
I've read some comments by French people, saying that they were ashamed and disgusted by the violent behavior of some of the strikers. I wonder if there's a way for French people to peacefully protest that kind of behavior. Maybe they can use taxis only when there is no other means of transportation, until the taxi unions apologize for the violence, and remove from union membership any members who attacked anyone.
Or, you could just walk up to somebody at a stoplight on in a parking lot and put a gun in their face. No need to set up an elaborate system with buying a prepaid credit card (assuming they even work with Uber), creating a fake email address, getting a burner smartphone and activating it, etc. etc.
The thing is, professional taxi drivers are very aware of this and it is rare to meet one who doesn't carry a firearm.
Maybe where you are - I've never seen a single story of a taxi driver in NYC using a firearm. Then again, we have reasonable gun laws.
I'm not British and I'd use the same idiom, as would many people in my country.
so
you are wrong, this is an incorrect statement.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
So are we debating the semantics of "forcing someone" or what?
Well, I guess we're going to have to. If you narrow someone's choices, you have to take some responsibility for that. And we're talking about people who are forced to live in certain places if they want to be members of society. And if you're not a member of society, society will shit on you. So basically, your society is terrorizing these people into taking taxis.
Now, after taking a look at the homicide statistics, does a for-hire driver sound like the kind of job that we should encourage people to just pick up at random, with no training or safety precautions, and pay them less than minimum wage? Stupid as shit. But people are mad desperate for cash
Yes, that's what I said in the first paragraph, essentially. People are desperate. Some of them are desperate enough to take a hire car. Some of them are desperate enough to drive one. But you can't fix that problem by making it illegal to operate as an unlicensed taxi — all you'll do is create a new class of criminal, the unlicensed taxi driver. Whoops! We have those already. Now we have more of them. Why? Because society is terrorizing people into it.
Instead of solving the root problem, you just want to ban people from trying to make a fucking living. That's what's wrong with your whole anti-Uber idea. That's totally fucking misguided. You're being selectively anti-capitalist. When you realize that capitalism is the problem, you'll stop championing protectionist bullshit which doesn't actually solve the problem you want it to solve — because unlicensed taxis are a thing with or without Uber, and as the economy worsens, they become more of a thing. In Costa Rica, they're the norm. Where is our economy headed? We have record unemployment and we're claiming that it's low. But that's a lot of bullshit, we just stopped counting a lot of people and then declared victory.
TL;DR: If you can take time to care about people who aren't taxi drivers yet, why can't you care about the people who are already taxi drivers? Answer, because they're part of the system that makes you comfortable, and as long as you're that, everyone else can fuck off.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Un bon mot ne prouve rien.
It's by Voltaire. Not racist though.
But applicable to any quote used as if it is an argument or a self-evident fact. EVER.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
I was one of those hit by the Eurostar cancellations on Tuesday due to protests by MyFerryLink workers. I chose a slow bus (Megabus) the next day because Eurostar had tickets available on Thursday, and half an hour later for Friday, and I didn't want to stick around. I had to use a taxi to get to the hotel I found on the outskirts of Paris (but the RER would have worked for me too, but my gf was mad enough that she wanted a taxi, since I'll claim the costs from Eurostar anyway). And while on the taxi, the A1 autoroute (motorway) decided to start road works.
While here, I would also like to "thank" SNCF for blocking booking.com searches over their free WiFi at Gare du Nord. Really "helpful" during the Eurostar panic.
As for enforcing laws, it's like those armed patrols they have anywhere are willing to do nothing about the "un Euro" Africans that sell Eiffel Tower keychains and metals things everywhere (including Disneyland) and the "speak English" "charity" beggars that have no official charity affiliation (that say they want "just" a signature, but then have an "amount" column on their sheets)
"Everybody's naked underneath" -- The Doctor
It's a smart idea. It's ridiculously valued, but it's a smart idea.
> taxi drivers are routinely held up at gunpoint or murdered
What you're seeing is taxi drivers badgering the people and government to keep their allegedly shitty jobs. Maybe their jobs aren't as shitty as you think.
You are exactly the type of kracker that Dr. King was talking about:
You didn't even read what you were protesting. This bullshit got a +5 too!
And make no mistake my children, there shall be swift and righteous justice on all free-grazers.
No more shall they nibble wantonly at the teat of our coffers.
And that's just exactly like that part in the Bible that applies to that situation.
but they have to pay before they get in... ...
They dont have any large amounts of cash on hand
What are you going to steal?
You are going to get more value out of robbing a random street person, rather than going through the effort of leaving a trail back to yourself using Uber.
Uber records your location via GPS, your IP address, and your paypal payment details.
So to rob an Uber Taxi, you need to steal someones phone, hope they have Uber and payment details included, pay that uber taxi driver and then rob them of their wallet.
But it would have been just as valuable as robbing the guy you got the phone off, than hoping he has Uber and getting another wallet off the uber driver.
Compare that with the taxi driver, who has a relatively large stash of cash (because people pay in cash), who picked you up off the street without charging you first.
The safety concern for the driver just isn't comparable.
While you're here, you can learn that it has a second 'p' in it.
I do not think Paris public transportations are lacking users so far. It may not be as packed as what you can see on videos of the Tokyo subway or other extreme examples, but I think it is already close to full capacity.
Oh, and it stinks.
And so the flood of Uber shills starts...
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Only sheeple follow the law, right?
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Welcome to our world. Have some capitalism.
Fortunately, society has moved away from pure capitalism in the last hundred and fifty years or so. Although it looks like Uber fanboys want to see us back in the Nineteenth Century.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
You can see why they're annoyed.
Its like if I was running a waste disposal company, and a new company started up in town that just fly-tipped all the refuse and flaunted the regulations. They'd undercut me on price and pretty soon I'd be out of business. I think I'd be within my rights to protest the government to try and get them to enforce the laws that I'm abiding by but my competitors are not, even if it was just from selfish motives
The wisdom of requiring licencing for taxi drivers is up for debate, but with the law as it stands my sympathies certainly lie with the cabbies forking out for licences in accordance with the law.
True. But we're more likely to refer to the ground control staff as men with table-tennis bats.
No choice? What about Lyft and other app controlled taxi firms? Ideally a driver ought to be able to have multiple phones with the different apps on, thus accepting ride offers from whoever is the best option at the time.
You don't have to work for Uber to support app-controlled taxis.
What exactly are the thieves going to steal from the driver? Uber rides are paid through your phone with a credit card and they don't accept cash.
Well on Paris, it is near an monopoly.
For 4 years, the state hasn't sold any new taxi license (the license is around 200k-230k EUR right now). Thus keeping the number of taxis in Paris at the same level.
But the biggest problem would be the G7 taxi company that his on a monopoly position on the Paris area (around 80-85% of taxis are linked someway or another to the G7 Taxi group, the others are the few independent that sill exists).
There is a nice article about the taxi lobby (and especially the G7 group) here:
http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/economie/20150212.OBS2398/comment-le-roi-des-taxis-compte-contrer-uber-au-detriment-des-clients.html (in french though)
Other than the French taxi drivers calling in Uber then beating them and destroying their cars, is this actually happening more frequently than with Taxi's? Seriously, if you are right this is a big concern. If course I would bet that it wasn't and that you are totally wrong. But then I would just be doing the same as you, making wild ass assumptions without and real data to back it up.