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Man Arrested After Charging iPhone On London Overground Train
An anonymous reader writes: 45-year-old Robin Lee was arrested after he used a socket on a London Overground train to charge up his iPhone. He was handcuffed and arrested for "abstracting electricity". Robin was then charged with "unacceptable behaviour" after "becoming aggressive" when objecting to his first arrest. The Guardian reports: "Speaking to the Evening Standard, Lee said he had been confronted by a police community support officer on the overground train from Hackney Wick to Camden Road on 10 July. The Overground is part of Transport For London’s wider network that also includes London Underground and the buses. 'She said I’m abstracting electricity. She kept saying it’s a crime. We were just coming into the station and there happened to be about four police officers on the platform. She called to them and said: ‘This guy’s been abstracting electricity, he needs to be arrested’.”
Yup. Let's spend thousands of dollars worth of man-hours and paperwork and court time over 10 cents worth of electricity.
Uh ... seems right to me:
abstract
verb
gerund or present participle: abstracting
bstrakt/
1.
consider something theoretically or separately from (something else).
"to abstract science and religion from their historical context can lead to anachronism"
2.
extract or remove (something).
"applications to abstract more water from streams"
synonyms: extract, pump, draw (off), tap, suck, withdraw, remove, take out/away; More
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
Oh. I guess it does mean what you think it means. Carry on then.
Would it be any different if he was charging a cheap Nolkia - or even his shaver?
We were called to Camden Road London Overground station on Friday 10 July to a report of a man becoming aggressive when challenged by a PCSO about his use of a plug socket onboard an Overground train.
While arrest may have been an overreaction, the guy was using a socket clearly marked not for public use and then seems to have become aggressive when asked to unplug his phone. Maybe he needs to look at his own behaviour as well.
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
Don't you think a reprimand - "you can't do that here sir" - would have been more appropriate? He probably 'stole' less in monetary terms than if he'd used an excessive amount of loo paper.
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
You're funny :)
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
In Barcelona you'll find free-to-use sockets on FGC trains, some bus stops and metro stations.Usually 5v USB sockets.
The guy ignored the signs on the outlets stating that they were for use by cleaners only, not by passengers.
The police dropped the original charge but he apparently couldn't keep from mouthing off to the officers involved about it so they arrested him again.
*Yawn*
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
That's what you get for being pissy with the police.
"Oh, I'm sorry sir/ma'am, I wasn't aware that this is strictly prohibited. No,it won't happen again. Thank you sir/ma'am." .... and continue your day like nothing happened. Not that hard, is it? But I guess this guy had to cause trouble. I bet he got what he deserved.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Technically it's theft. You've cost the rail company money (pittance though it may be) and potentially risked a fire by plugging an unknown device into an electrical socket.
Even in my workplace, that will get you disciplined. You at least have to get a PAT test before you can do that and it's only by the goodwill of the employer that they let you use the sockets.
Incredibly petty? Maybe. But that's not the point. And getting aggressive about it is what really gets you arrested and in trouble, you could have talked your way out of the first "arrest" without problem but it may have made you late for work.
But, yes, technically, it's not your socket, it's not your electricity, the sockets are CLEARLY marked that you're not allowed to do that, you didn't ask permission.
In my workplace (schools), we have told off parents for doing exactly this during open-days, etc. They just wander into the school and plug into the first socket they see and then leave the device on and charging and wander off.
We use threat of the same law to stop them doing it (but we probably wouldn't go so far as arrest, but arrest is NOT a charge - people always confuse this distinction - you arrest somebody to stop them leaving while you work out if they've actually committed a crime that anybody cares about), but we're not worried about the electricity cost as much as the electrical safety implications. If their cheap shit Chinese charger catches fire and burns down the school, we don't care who was liable, but our insurers and lawyers sure will.
And I'm not talking tiny state schools, but large independent (private) schools where pissing off a parent costs you more money than you earn in a year if they pull their kids out. But still we don't let them do it.
It's petty. But it's still theft, effectively (the name of the charge is just a specific one for theft of electricity). Arrest may be an overreaction but arrest is not charge. Getting aggressive over something you know you shouldn't have done (no matter how petty) gets you arrested twice, and certainly charged at least once.
Don't plug into other people's sockets without asking. And if you can't ask or think the answer might be no, don't plug into the socket anyway.
And then there's the question of how did you activate the socket because all the UK train sockets I see are keyed with a large hex-key in order to turn them on. It's not just a case of plugging in by accident not realising the socket wasn't for public use.
No story here.
Your absolutism costs lives. It locks people up who shouldn't be and follows them around for the rest of their lives. It also creates marginal deterrence problems. Proportional responses to violations of malum prohibitum "crimes" are called for. Proportional responses to malum in se crimes are even called for, but for malum prohibitum crimes there is no justification for absolutism.
To plug your phone into the wall should not be to get arrested, unless there is a gigantic sign saying "PLUGGING INTO THIS IS PROHIBITED." Even then, it should get a $50 civil fine and nothing on your record. What's more, it *shouldn't* be prohibited unless it creates problems.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/...
"13 Abstracting of electricity.
A person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted, any electricity shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years."
So yes, the language is precisely correct.
Technically he has also committed a criminal offence.
However, PCSOs (which are sometimes known unaffectionately at "plastic policemen" are non warranted police officers with very limited powers. Most of their arresting powers are actually the same as those available to any citizen (aka "citizens arrest") and have very limited conditions of applicability. PCSOs do have some additional powers specially granted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
However, they are a modern invention and of considerably lower status, both legally and in the public perception compared to the more traditional volunteer role of "Special Constable" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The problem here is that PCSOs generally lack common sense and seem to be power-happy. Unfortunately their warranted colleagues feel some obligation to back them up, rather than telling them to grow up, as might be applicable in cases like this.
Unfortunately for the artist, even through he has been de-arrested, he now probably no longer qualifies for the visa waiver programme for entry to the USA as the US notion of arrest is somewhat different to the English notion and the USA as far as I know does not have a concept of "de-arrest".
So actual harm has been done. No wonder the public perception of the police is falling like a lead balloon.
Why can't women be like Hedy Lamarr - beautiful, talented and inventors of frequency-hopping spread-spectrum techn
Police Community Support Officers have no real power. They are just ordinary people, given a stupid looking uniform and a massive chip to carry around on their shoulders. So they shove their nose in where they can, try to act like they are important and have some useful purpose.
Best thing to do if they confront you is simply refuse to talk to them, and if possible walk away. They can't detain you. If they touch you it's assault and you can have them arrested. It's also not a bad idea to film them if they harass you, and put it on YouTube later.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Not so powerless as you might think: https://www.gov.uk/government/... [www.gov.uk] In this case, she simply alerted 'real' police officers to the 'offence'. If the guy had not bercome aggressive I expect he would have been sent on his way.
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
You do realise that this is exactly how it was, right? There was a sign, and it exists because plugging in might damage your equipment. From TFA:
On this actual subject, this is 100% LOL worthy and really did have me snigger because I'm thinking "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK ELECTRICAL SOCKETS ARE FOR YOU DUMBASS!!!".
They're for the cleaning staff to plug their vacuum cleaners in. They are clearly labelled "not for use by the public".
Watch this Heartland Institute video
London isn't actually a separate country yet, though most of the rest of the UK wishes that it was.
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Technically it's theft. You've cost the rail company money (pittance though it may be) and potentially risked a fire by plugging an unknown device into an electrical socket.
I stopped reading here and I'm seriously hoping you're kidding. "risked a fire"? Seriously?
Apple recalled millions of their original iPhone/iPod touch chargers. The small 5W USB adapter, they were a fire hazard. They still use the design, last I checked they still put the little green dot on them that differentiated the later safer models from the original hazardous models.
Read the article. There is a sign on it saying it's for staff use only. It's also a very bad idea to use it when the train is in motion, as it can get massive power surges as the train crosses from one power zone to another.
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
These would be the sockets that say "not for public use" on them. The sockets that are provided for the cleaners to plug their vacuum cleaners into and, if used when the train is operating, could be subjected to power spikes and liable to fry your electronics and cause a fire? Yeah, I have no sympathy. I don't doubt the police could be doing better things (although I'm no engineer, if this really does pose a serious safety risk, perhaps it is a good use of their time) but when you're on someone else's train you play by someone else's rules. If that means not using the sockets, so be it.
They used to arrest people in the Los Angeles subways for the same thing - but the Mayor finally stopped the ridiculous practice:
"This is simply common sense. I want our law enforcement resources directed toward serious crime, not cell phone charging."
http://www.scpr.org/news/2014/...
From the linked article:
"Electricity sockets on Overground trains are clearly marked with the words: “cleaners use only and not for public use”
The sign sounds more like "we cannot be held responsible if this destroys your device" than a hard interdiction. Besides it's a really stupid way of doing things: they should just have a switch to turn off electricity to all these switches in the driver's compartment. The drivers would just have to turn the switch on/off when taking/parking the train (they already have a checklist to go through). Then the public can safely plug in all they want, without risk of 'abstracting' electricity or damaging their equipment.
That is the easy fix. If they stick power outlets on trains that are not meant for the public, then they should ensure it doesn't work for the public. For example by using a non-standard power outlet that does not accept standard charger plugs, and perhaps by supplying some unusable power level through it. Like 400V or so. That will teach the public really quick.
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
When I clicked on the link to see the definition of "abstracting electricity", in the section on case law the offense cited was meter tampering. As in substantionally "more than a few electrons." The cost of prosecution would far exceed the cost of the electricity used. (I would also see where this particular law would apply to unauthorized taps or splices, where the power draw would be signifiant.)
One issue the article did bring up: the power at that train-car outlet isn't at all clean. If it uses external power pickup (third rail or overhead catenary) I could see where the surges, sags and dropouts would be severe enough to damage a phone or laptop, especially as the drive motors of the train, a highly inductive load, would cause very large spikes as the power pickup loses and re-makes contact. Contrast that with a long-haul train which supplies power from a locomotive generator, which shouldn't flicker at all.
So it could well be that there is a cause for action of a different sort: "We are not liable for any damage caused by plugging anything into the outlets on this train."
"a 45-year-old artist based in Islington"
Get a proper job, you stupid fucking hipster.
Summation 2
most of the airports and stations I use have free charging points.
The story here is someone was stupid enough to go to London then act surprised when it turned out to be a shit hole.
A lot of trains in the UK have charging points for public use. They even have wi-fi on parts of the Underground now. However, the socket in question was apparently clearly marked "not for public use". The man knew he could get into trouble, he was just a bit surprised at how much.
I mean, we're talking about the country that wants to make secure online shopping and banking illegal.
Nope. The country does not want to do that. The Prime Minister of the country wants to introduce certain measures that, as a side effect, would make secure online shopping and banking illegal, but there's no evidence that the country as a whole would like that idea if they knew what the consequences were.
The place is an international joke.
You can find crazy things about any country that makes it an international joke in the eyes of everybody else. If you are an American you should understand that everybody else thinks of US gun laws as a dangerous joke and the fact that it seems their police officers would shoot a man for stealing electricity as arrest him (if he is black) would be viewed as a joke if it were not so tragic.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
Is this true on London Overground trains? On the trains I take in the south, the plugs are clearly labelled as only for mobile phones or laptops.
Yes, and there was a recent incident where a cleaner was arrested for plugging his vacuum cleaner into one of those sockets.
So are there on most inter-city trains in the UK. The difference is this one was at floor level, not close to a seat, and clearly labelled 'not for public use' I can image a scenario where a charger was damaged at hat level, exposing live terminals.
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
It's the correct legal term in the UK, although it's generally used against people who illegally feed off an existing supply to power high power lamps for growing cannabis.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
There are non-standard sockets they should have fitted instead then, so only company authorised equipment can be plugged in. Simple and pretty much 100% effective.
As for the cost, it was probably far less than 10p, especially considering the enormous bulk discounts someone like TFL will get when purchasing their electricity. Sometimes publicity about wasting electricity by leaving chargers plugged in or equipment on standby can make people believe these things guzzle power. Bottom line, it would be impossible to measure the difference in power usage between two train journeys that was caused by someone plugging in a charger.
It's because of the police and the retarded law makers.
If you were drunken disorderly, walking the street drunk off your ass, the cops used to grab you and make you sleep it off in the drunk tank.
Today, they ruin your life for ever.
No wonder cops are universally hated. Police today are chosen to be drones that do as they are told, not high IQ types that can think for themselves. The laws are designed to punish everyone severely that even brush up against the law.
It will come to a head, and it is going to get very ugly.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Sorry sir, we're right out of spiders.
... I've got a slug?
He's Jesus, for Christ's sake.
the problem here is that you HAVE to do a spell as a PCSO before you can apply to become a real Policeman... this one was especially jumped up and keen and had probably read the charge book and remembered the abstraction of electricity charge and decided to try and get a 'gold star'...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Instead, he acted like a knob towards the PCSO who pointed out that there was in effect a gigantic sign saying "PLUGGING INTO THIS IS PROHIBITED" and subsequently to the actual police officers who turned up, so they arrested him for "being a total arse bucket in public" (or whatever the technical term is).
Obviously no one was ever going to be prosecuted for stealing GBP 0.02 of electricity.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Why does the train have operational, accessible sockets if they are not to be used by the PAYING passengers??
There are non-standard sockets they should have fitted instead then, so only company authorised equipment can be plugged in. Simple and pretty much 100% effective.
As for the cost, it was probably far less than 10p, especially considering the enormous bulk discounts someone like TFL will get when purchasing their electricity. Sometimes publicity about wasting electricity by leaving chargers plugged in or equipment on standby can make people believe these things guzzle power. Bottom line, it would be impossible to measure the difference in power usage between two train journeys that was caused by someone plugging in a charger.
So you think it is far more appropriate for them to have to develop a nonstandard plug rather than trust in the honesty and decency of the citizens of the UK? I mean, don't get me wrong, I think this is a silly reason to prosecute anyone, but the cost of a nonstandard plug is far in excess of a few pence. They have to have them manufactured, shipped and installed in all of their locations and then there is the conundrum of plugging the equipment in, too. Do they order vacuums with special plugs? Replace the plugs on COTS vacuums? Have adapters manufactured? And then what is to stop some conniving Brit from stealing an adapter or making their own adapter? It's just silly. Arresting someone for this is just silly. The officer should have just given him a warning, perhaps even a written warning so they can track repeat offenders. Life should have continued on. But the guy made a huge mistake if he really did become aggressive after they decided to arrest him, as that is a serious crime in most jurisdictions.
PCSO is a Police Community Support Officer, these are not Police Officers, they have very limited powers (they cannot Arrest somebody) and are typically wannabe that cannot cut the grade and have very limited knowledge of the law and in this case even the English language given their confusion of the semantics difference between Abstration and Extraction.
UK Trains provide charging points for laptops and mobile phones and have signs announcing this, and this is also on the national rail website . These are low power and not suitable for a heavy load like a vacum cleaner.
"WiFi and power points for laptops and mobile phone chargers are available on some trains"
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/...
The guy was immediately 'de-arrested' and released by the custody Sergeant and why he will get compensation is due course for false arrest.
switch them off from the fusebox while not in use by the cleaning crew - costs nothing and is also safer
So you think it is far more appropriate for them to have to develop a nonstandard plug rather than trust in the honesty and decency of the citizens of the UK?
Actually, I think a better policy would be "Need to charge your phone while you're on the train? Use our outlets!" It would be a good PR move for them and help build goodwill.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
That's assuming there is a dedicated 240V line that runs through the train from cab to cab with a single breaker.
More likely there will be a breaker in each carriage or at least each unit (set of permanently joined carriages) - and this is likely to be in some cupboard rather that with the critical system breakers in the cab. So doing this will involve a certain amount of faff.
Yes, I guess they could have designed a computer initiated isolator on the socket circuits, but someone probably said "what's the point?"
Why can't women be like Hedy Lamarr - beautiful, talented and inventors of frequency-hopping spread-spectrum techn
Yeah, and then some asshole would ruin it for everyone by driving his Smart ED inside the train to charge it.
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The best engineering is the type of engineering that prevents people from doing the wrong thing with minimum expense. Using non-standard plugs and outlets is bad engineering; it requires costly ongoing retro-fitting as new cleaning equipment is purchased, and even then passengers might be tempted to tamper with a "live" electrical outlet in an attempt to make it work with their chargers.
But I would assume that the cleaners are not going to be cleaning the train while it is in service, correct? So, you have a master electrical switch in the train for "operational" and "maintenance" modes. When the train is being cleaned, it is placed in maintenance mode, and the power outlets are live. When the train is in operational mode, the outlets are disconnected. Very quickly the passengers learn that the outlets don't work. Problem solved.
It was BS 1363 (introduced in 1947) which standardised the plugs, not the EU.
Yes. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard.
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