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Man Arrested After Charging iPhone On London Overground Train
An anonymous reader writes: 45-year-old Robin Lee was arrested after he used a socket on a London Overground train to charge up his iPhone. He was handcuffed and arrested for "abstracting electricity". Robin was then charged with "unacceptable behaviour" after "becoming aggressive" when objecting to his first arrest. The Guardian reports: "Speaking to the Evening Standard, Lee said he had been confronted by a police community support officer on the overground train from Hackney Wick to Camden Road on 10 July. The Overground is part of Transport For London’s wider network that also includes London Underground and the buses. 'She said I’m abstracting electricity. She kept saying it’s a crime. We were just coming into the station and there happened to be about four police officers on the platform. She called to them and said: ‘This guy’s been abstracting electricity, he needs to be arrested’.”
Yup. Let's spend thousands of dollars worth of man-hours and paperwork and court time over 10 cents worth of electricity.
Uh ... seems right to me:
abstract
verb
gerund or present participle: abstracting
bstrakt/
1.
consider something theoretically or separately from (something else).
"to abstract science and religion from their historical context can lead to anachronism"
2.
extract or remove (something).
"applications to abstract more water from streams"
synonyms: extract, pump, draw (off), tap, suck, withdraw, remove, take out/away; More
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
abstract Oh yes we can: verb gerund or present participle: abstracting bstrakt/ 1. consider something theoretically or separately from (something else). "to abstract science and religion from their historical context can lead to anachronism" 2. extract or remove (something). "applications to abstract more water from streams" synonyms: extract, pump, draw (off), tap, suck, withdraw, remove, take out/away; More
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
Oh. I guess it does mean what you think it means. Carry on then.
Would it be any different if he was charging a cheap Nolkia - or even his shaver?
We were called to Camden Road London Overground station on Friday 10 July to a report of a man becoming aggressive when challenged by a PCSO about his use of a plug socket onboard an Overground train.
While arrest may have been an overreaction, the guy was using a socket clearly marked not for public use and then seems to have become aggressive when asked to unplug his phone. Maybe he needs to look at his own behaviour as well.
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
Don't you think a reprimand - "you can't do that here sir" - would have been more appropriate? He probably 'stole' less in monetary terms than if he'd used an excessive amount of loo paper.
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
You're funny :)
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
The UK government's use of "abstracting" fits the article exactly.
Please excuse my language
They have to do time as a PCSO BEFORE they can be considered for training as a real Policeman... this one had been reading the law books and looking for anything to make a mark with...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
In Barcelona you'll find free-to-use sockets on FGC trains, some bus stops and metro stations.Usually 5v USB sockets.
one abstract country
The guy ignored the signs on the outlets stating that they were for use by cleaners only, not by passengers.
The police dropped the original charge but he apparently couldn't keep from mouthing off to the officers involved about it so they arrested him again.
*Yawn*
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
That's what you get for being pissy with the police.
"Oh, I'm sorry sir/ma'am, I wasn't aware that this is strictly prohibited. No,it won't happen again. Thank you sir/ma'am." .... and continue your day like nothing happened. Not that hard, is it? But I guess this guy had to cause trouble. I bet he got what he deserved.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Technically it's theft. You've cost the rail company money (pittance though it may be) and potentially risked a fire by plugging an unknown device into an electrical socket.
Even in my workplace, that will get you disciplined. You at least have to get a PAT test before you can do that and it's only by the goodwill of the employer that they let you use the sockets.
Incredibly petty? Maybe. But that's not the point. And getting aggressive about it is what really gets you arrested and in trouble, you could have talked your way out of the first "arrest" without problem but it may have made you late for work.
But, yes, technically, it's not your socket, it's not your electricity, the sockets are CLEARLY marked that you're not allowed to do that, you didn't ask permission.
In my workplace (schools), we have told off parents for doing exactly this during open-days, etc. They just wander into the school and plug into the first socket they see and then leave the device on and charging and wander off.
We use threat of the same law to stop them doing it (but we probably wouldn't go so far as arrest, but arrest is NOT a charge - people always confuse this distinction - you arrest somebody to stop them leaving while you work out if they've actually committed a crime that anybody cares about), but we're not worried about the electricity cost as much as the electrical safety implications. If their cheap shit Chinese charger catches fire and burns down the school, we don't care who was liable, but our insurers and lawyers sure will.
And I'm not talking tiny state schools, but large independent (private) schools where pissing off a parent costs you more money than you earn in a year if they pull their kids out. But still we don't let them do it.
It's petty. But it's still theft, effectively (the name of the charge is just a specific one for theft of electricity). Arrest may be an overreaction but arrest is not charge. Getting aggressive over something you know you shouldn't have done (no matter how petty) gets you arrested twice, and certainly charged at least once.
Don't plug into other people's sockets without asking. And if you can't ask or think the answer might be no, don't plug into the socket anyway.
And then there's the question of how did you activate the socket because all the UK train sockets I see are keyed with a large hex-key in order to turn them on. It's not just a case of plugging in by accident not realising the socket wasn't for public use.
No story here.
Your absolutism costs lives. It locks people up who shouldn't be and follows them around for the rest of their lives. It also creates marginal deterrence problems. Proportional responses to violations of malum prohibitum "crimes" are called for. Proportional responses to malum in se crimes are even called for, but for malum prohibitum crimes there is no justification for absolutism.
To plug your phone into the wall should not be to get arrested, unless there is a gigantic sign saying "PLUGGING INTO THIS IS PROHIBITED." Even then, it should get a $50 civil fine and nothing on your record. What's more, it *shouldn't* be prohibited unless it creates problems.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/...
"13 Abstracting of electricity.
A person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted, any electricity shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years."
So yes, the language is precisely correct.
Technically he has also committed a criminal offence.
However, PCSOs (which are sometimes known unaffectionately at "plastic policemen" are non warranted police officers with very limited powers. Most of their arresting powers are actually the same as those available to any citizen (aka "citizens arrest") and have very limited conditions of applicability. PCSOs do have some additional powers specially granted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
However, they are a modern invention and of considerably lower status, both legally and in the public perception compared to the more traditional volunteer role of "Special Constable" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The problem here is that PCSOs generally lack common sense and seem to be power-happy. Unfortunately their warranted colleagues feel some obligation to back them up, rather than telling them to grow up, as might be applicable in cases like this.
Unfortunately for the artist, even through he has been de-arrested, he now probably no longer qualifies for the visa waiver programme for entry to the USA as the US notion of arrest is somewhat different to the English notion and the USA as far as I know does not have a concept of "de-arrest".
So actual harm has been done. No wonder the public perception of the police is falling like a lead balloon.
Why can't women be like Hedy Lamarr - beautiful, talented and inventors of frequency-hopping spread-spectrum techn
Police Community Support Officers have no real power. They are just ordinary people, given a stupid looking uniform and a massive chip to carry around on their shoulders. So they shove their nose in where they can, try to act like they are important and have some useful purpose.
Best thing to do if they confront you is simply refuse to talk to them, and if possible walk away. They can't detain you. If they touch you it's assault and you can have them arrested. It's also not a bad idea to film them if they harass you, and put it on YouTube later.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Funny or not there wasn't anything untrue in his post. Cameron has stated on multiple occasions that strong encryption is aiding the enemy and that he wants government backdoors inside all encryption. The problem with that is there is an entire black-market of dedicated, intelligent people who are working to find these backdoors and sell access to them to other criminals. To think that the government could keep those backdoors a secret is naive and by weakening our encryption to ostensibly "detect terrorists" he is opening up everyone else using those weakened encryption schemes to attack by criminals.
On topic however, I've never had a problem when traveling in the United States with charging my laptop or phone using outlets in terminals while waiting to board. If they didn't want people using them they shouldn't have put them there in the first place. If they are only for maintenance workers, lock them down and distribute the key only to personal who need access. Don't leave it open and arrest anyone who happens to think they could charge their phone there without being cited or worse.
On the point of London being a shit-hole, I guess that's completely a matter of opinion. This isn't a shining example for the british however. Neither the officer nor the accused kept calm.
I do it all the time on Swiss trains. Then again, if they put a socket above every seat (on modern trains at least), I somehow expect they won't mind.
I gave up sigs almost a year ago.
Insane. Here in sweden we have a socket or two by every seat on the bigger trains, like the one going between Copenhagen and Stockholm. And even on the smaller ones you're totally free to use any sockets found in the public area of the train.
I think his point was quite clear in the very first sentance.
"It's funny cos it's true"
He just put more effort into describing why.
Not so powerless as you might think: https://www.gov.uk/government/... [www.gov.uk] In this case, she simply alerted 'real' police officers to the 'offence'. If the guy had not bercome aggressive I expect he would have been sent on his way.
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
the police man was just enforcing the laws written by the legislature. He was just doing the job he was supposed to be doing.
So what you are essentially saying... is that he was "just following orders".
Too soon in the comments?
You do realise that this is exactly how it was, right? There was a sign, and it exists because plugging in might damage your equipment. From TFA:
Language consists not of what is written in reference books, that is a mere snapshot of language use. Language is what is in daily use.
Hear, hear!
It's a perfectly cromulent use of the word!
"unless there is a gigantic sign saying "PLUGGING INTO THIS IS PROHIBITED"
From the linked article:
"Electricity sockets on Overground trains are clearly marked with the words: “cleaners use only and not for public use”
Silly. Reading the article doesn't change my position; like I said, even in that case, a civil fine and not an arrest is the most that is justified. And then maybe you'll read to the next sentence of my comment, which covered that case.
Why would I read TFA when I can just put a default case at the bottom of my switch statement? :)
"unless there is a gigantic sign saying "PLUGGING INTO THIS IS PROHIBITED"
From the linked article:
"Electricity sockets on Overground trains are clearly marked with the words: “cleaners use only and not for public use”
Thank you! That makes it less absurd to punish him, although I still think a civil fine is more appropriate than an arrest.
Attractive nuissance.
If they didn't want people using the outlets, they'd either omit them, or use an outlet/plug design that was incompatible with standard plugs, and there wouldn't be a problem. It's not like the vacuum cleaners are being taken home and used by the transit staff, so a permanent modification wouldn't be a problem.
Yeah ofcourse he was arrested only for using the socket........... He propably was told it was illegal to use the socket and was written a fine, but then he got a big mouth and that's why he got arrested, and trying to arrest him he got even agressive and that was the second offence.. There are always 2 sides to the story, and ofcourse according to him, he did nothing and only used the outlet...
Then again, why don't they just replace the socket with a plug that isn't compatible with any consumer plug... But people are getting more bold/rude and think they can just charge their device anywhere without permission.. I've seen it a lot in bars etc, people just unplugging an appliance or light just to charge their f-ing phone and not even putting the plug back in, and all without asking..
On this actual subject, this is 100% LOL worthy and really did have me snigger because I'm thinking "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK ELECTRICAL SOCKETS ARE FOR YOU DUMBASS!!!".
They're for the cleaning staff to plug their vacuum cleaners in. They are clearly labelled "not for use by the public".
Watch this Heartland Institute video
London isn't actually a separate country yet, though most of the rest of the UK wishes that it was.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
In UK, "You can't do that here, Sir!" said in proper voice should be a lot more embarassing to perpetrator than being handcuffed in public...
from the flamebaid title to the idiotic tags, this is an absolutely shitty submission, through and through
Is this slashdot anymore?
Who the hell accepted this submission? samzenpus? Go gargle some brake fluid.
Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
Technically it's theft. You've cost the rail company money (pittance though it may be) and potentially risked a fire by plugging an unknown device into an electrical socket.
I stopped reading here and I'm seriously hoping you're kidding. "risked a fire"? Seriously?
Apple recalled millions of their original iPhone/iPod touch chargers. The small 5W USB adapter, they were a fire hazard. They still use the design, last I checked they still put the little green dot on them that differentiated the later safer models from the original hazardous models.
It's really just a matter of putting a sign above it saying "For staff use only" or similar. Then, you can at least say you told them before you arrest them.
A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
Thank you! That makes it less absurd to punish him, although I still think a civil fine is more appropriate than an arrest.
I think that is what happened, from the wording of the summary he didn't get arrested until he started acting crazy about it; thus getting arrested for "unacceptable behaviour".
Sig: I stole this sig.
Ahem Let's spend thousands of pounds over 6 pence worth of electricity
Read the article. There is a sign on it saying it's for staff use only. It's also a very bad idea to use it when the train is in motion, as it can get massive power surges as the train crosses from one power zone to another.
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
Meanwhile, in Germany, most trains include power sockets precisely so passengers can charge their laptops/phones/whatever.
These would be the sockets that say "not for public use" on them. The sockets that are provided for the cleaners to plug their vacuum cleaners into and, if used when the train is operating, could be subjected to power spikes and liable to fry your electronics and cause a fire? Yeah, I have no sympathy. I don't doubt the police could be doing better things (although I'm no engineer, if this really does pose a serious safety risk, perhaps it is a good use of their time) but when you're on someone else's train you play by someone else's rules. If that means not using the sockets, so be it.
They used to arrest people in the Los Angeles subways for the same thing - but the Mayor finally stopped the ridiculous practice:
"This is simply common sense. I want our law enforcement resources directed toward serious crime, not cell phone charging."
http://www.scpr.org/news/2014/...
From the linked article:
"Electricity sockets on Overground trains are clearly marked with the words: “cleaners use only and not for public use”
The sign sounds more like "we cannot be held responsible if this destroys your device" than a hard interdiction. Besides it's a really stupid way of doing things: they should just have a switch to turn off electricity to all these switches in the driver's compartment. The drivers would just have to turn the switch on/off when taking/parking the train (they already have a checklist to go through). Then the public can safely plug in all they want, without risk of 'abstracting' electricity or damaging their equipment.
That is the easy fix. If they stick power outlets on trains that are not meant for the public, then they should ensure it doesn't work for the public. For example by using a non-standard power outlet that does not accept standard charger plugs, and perhaps by supplying some unusable power level through it. Like 400V or so. That will teach the public really quick.
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
If I see a sign that says "not for public use" then I, as a member of the public, wouldn't even consider using it.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
When I clicked on the link to see the definition of "abstracting electricity", in the section on case law the offense cited was meter tampering. As in substantionally "more than a few electrons." The cost of prosecution would far exceed the cost of the electricity used. (I would also see where this particular law would apply to unauthorized taps or splices, where the power draw would be signifiant.)
One issue the article did bring up: the power at that train-car outlet isn't at all clean. If it uses external power pickup (third rail or overhead catenary) I could see where the surges, sags and dropouts would be severe enough to damage a phone or laptop, especially as the drive motors of the train, a highly inductive load, would cause very large spikes as the power pickup loses and re-makes contact. Contrast that with a long-haul train which supplies power from a locomotive generator, which shouldn't flicker at all.
So it could well be that there is a cause for action of a different sort: "We are not liable for any damage caused by plugging anything into the outlets on this train."
Never mind about the de-arrest. For that he can now legitimately claim he was never arrested in the first place.
However, it is of academic interest only because he is now under proper arrest for his behaviour towards the PCSO.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
"a 45-year-old artist based in Islington"
Get a proper job, you stupid fucking hipster.
Summation 2
most of the airports and stations I use have free charging points.
The story here is someone was stupid enough to go to London then act surprised when it turned out to be a shit hole.
A lot of trains in the UK have charging points for public use. They even have wi-fi on parts of the Underground now. However, the socket in question was apparently clearly marked "not for public use". The man knew he could get into trouble, he was just a bit surprised at how much.
I mean, we're talking about the country that wants to make secure online shopping and banking illegal.
Nope. The country does not want to do that. The Prime Minister of the country wants to introduce certain measures that, as a side effect, would make secure online shopping and banking illegal, but there's no evidence that the country as a whole would like that idea if they knew what the consequences were.
The place is an international joke.
You can find crazy things about any country that makes it an international joke in the eyes of everybody else. If you are an American you should understand that everybody else thinks of US gun laws as a dangerous joke and the fact that it seems their police officers would shoot a man for stealing electricity as arrest him (if he is black) would be viewed as a joke if it were not so tragic.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
Don't you think a reprimand - "you can't do that here sir" - would have been more appropriate?
It sounds like that's exactly what the PCSO did. The problem is that rather than stopping, or even stopping while protesting it, instead he was a total asshole about it and continued to do it even though he was informed it was illegal. For any value of "it," the guy was a dumbass. If you're informed something is against the law and you refuse to stop doing it right in front of an officer, what do you expect to happen?
In France, on their TGVs (High speed trains) there are outlets for every seats. ....
ditto in Germany, Luxembourg, Belgium
The London Tourist office is surely not amused.
I think the dickwad was the guy who got himself arrested for being exactly that. Unplug your device, PCSO leaves, plug it back in if you want to be a rebel. Get the arse with someone who's doing their (voluntary) job? Are you so behind that you don't see how the whole meeting aggression with more aggression thing doesn't actually pan out very well...
Is this true on London Overground trains? On the trains I take in the south, the plugs are clearly labelled as only for mobile phones or laptops.
Funny or not there wasn't anything untrue in his post. Cameron has stated on multiple occasions that strong encryption is aiding the enemy and that he wants government backdoors inside all encryption. The problem with that is there is an entire black-market of dedicated, intelligent people who are working to find these backdoors and sell access to them to other criminals. To think that the government could keep those backdoors a secret is naive and by weakening our encryption to ostensibly "detect terrorists" he is opening up everyone else using those weakened encryption schemes to attack by criminals.
Cameron is not "the country". More than 60% of the people here didn't want him as prime minister. I guess that means you can claim our voting system is a joke...
If they didn't want people using them they shouldn't have put them there in the first place.
The socket had a sign on it saying "not for public use". That should have been enough to stop him using it.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
So if I poke round your garden and find an external socket you won't mind me using it?
an android or windows phone? would he have been so 'abused'? ok, maybe the three people who own win phones might not live in london, and anyway, why was he on the train mixing with the hoi-poli, why didn't he use uber?
I was born and lived in Yorkshire, England for 20 years, a place that has a light-hearted reputation for being tight with money. A couple of years ago my girlfriend and I went on a road trip and visited Yorkshire. We had breakfast in a cafe where I plugged in my phone. The owner came over and started talking about how we were putting him out of business and electricity isn't cheap etc. We thought he was joking at first. But then he asked us for 50p to cover the cost of the electric. He was serious.
Yes, and there was a recent incident where a cleaner was arrested for plugging his vacuum cleaner into one of those sockets.
Bah, they are just abstracting the language. Perfectly good.
It's the correct legal term in the UK, although it's generally used against people who illegally feed off an existing supply to power high power lamps for growing cannabis.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Unfortunately for the artist, even through he has been de-arrested, he now probably no longer qualifies for the visa waiver programme for entry to the USA
So a win-win situation then? He can no longer be forced by his kids to go to Disneyland.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
There are non-standard sockets they should have fitted instead then, so only company authorised equipment can be plugged in. Simple and pretty much 100% effective.
As for the cost, it was probably far less than 10p, especially considering the enormous bulk discounts someone like TFL will get when purchasing their electricity. Sometimes publicity about wasting electricity by leaving chargers plugged in or equipment on standby can make people believe these things guzzle power. Bottom line, it would be impossible to measure the difference in power usage between two train journeys that was caused by someone plugging in a charger.
Bureau of silly cops.
I expect this outlet had no signage interdicting use, no trained spider chained there with a floss leash to bite charge thieves?
I ask, why not....?
Your link seems to be broken.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Totally different from my interpretation of that notice. I see that as meaning they're not for public use, so the public shouldn't use them. I don't see how there's room for interpretation there...
http://www.met.police.uk/pcso/...
Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
Depends on the operator and rolling stock. Southern Rail don't have sockets for the public (they have them by the doors for the cleaning crew) but I've seen passengers using them. South West Trains do have them, as do some Thameslink stock.
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
It's because of the police and the retarded law makers.
If you were drunken disorderly, walking the street drunk off your ass, the cops used to grab you and make you sleep it off in the drunk tank.
Today, they ruin your life for ever.
No wonder cops are universally hated. Police today are chosen to be drones that do as they are told, not high IQ types that can think for themselves. The laws are designed to punish everyone severely that even brush up against the law.
It will come to a head, and it is going to get very ugly.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Excessive Loo paper use is a capitol offense that will get you 20 years of hard labor.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
SCs have power of arrest (as a police officer, because they are police officers) unlike PCSOs who only have citizen levels. There's a whole bunch of "school prefect" style additions in order to keep someone around until an officer can arrest them if that officer deems it valid, but apart from that they are little more than a member of the public in a hi-viz jacket.
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
Best thing to do if they confront you is simply refuse to talk to them, and if possible walk away. They can't detain you. If they touch you it's assault and you can have them arrested
Yeah, right. The cops you call to "arrest" the PCSO are somewhat unlikely to take your side against theirs, it's tantamount to calling the cops to arrest another cop. Unless there is a massive indication in your favour (e.g. the PCSO has tied you to a lamppost and whipped you with barbed wire) , you're not going to be believed.
Anyway, in reality the PCSO would call the real cops to arrest you first, and the story would be that you were asked to do something and reacted violently/abusively.
As with the iphone bloke in this case, is it really worth losing your temper and spending several hours in a police cell over? If a PCSO asks you to do something reasonable, just do it, rather than turning into Captain Civil Rights.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Two sheet limit. Use both sides. Twice if you have to.
Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
the problem here is that you HAVE to do a spell as a PCSO before you can apply to become a real Policeman... this one was especially jumped up and keen and had probably read the charge book and remembered the abstraction of electricity charge and decided to try and get a 'gold star'...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Instead, he acted like a knob towards the PCSO who pointed out that there was in effect a gigantic sign saying "PLUGGING INTO THIS IS PROHIBITED" and subsequently to the actual police officers who turned up, so they arrested him for "being a total arse bucket in public" (or whatever the technical term is).
Obviously no one was ever going to be prosecuted for stealing GBP 0.02 of electricity.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
The City, for historic reasons, is semi-independent. It's one of those vestigial structures where they have a lot of power on paper, but a general agreement never to actually use it. They do have their own police force and a 'shadow government' headed by the Lord Mayor.
We do like our traditions. Plus it can be used for tax avoidance.
*City of London Police, considered a world-class force in prosecuting fraud, but most widely despised as the source of PIPCU and their loose concept of jurisdiction.
Why does the train have operational, accessible sockets if they are not to be used by the PAYING passengers??
There are non-standard sockets they should have fitted instead then, so only company authorised equipment can be plugged in. Simple and pretty much 100% effective.
As for the cost, it was probably far less than 10p, especially considering the enormous bulk discounts someone like TFL will get when purchasing their electricity. Sometimes publicity about wasting electricity by leaving chargers plugged in or equipment on standby can make people believe these things guzzle power. Bottom line, it would be impossible to measure the difference in power usage between two train journeys that was caused by someone plugging in a charger.
So you think it is far more appropriate for them to have to develop a nonstandard plug rather than trust in the honesty and decency of the citizens of the UK? I mean, don't get me wrong, I think this is a silly reason to prosecute anyone, but the cost of a nonstandard plug is far in excess of a few pence. They have to have them manufactured, shipped and installed in all of their locations and then there is the conundrum of plugging the equipment in, too. Do they order vacuums with special plugs? Replace the plugs on COTS vacuums? Have adapters manufactured? And then what is to stop some conniving Brit from stealing an adapter or making their own adapter? It's just silly. Arresting someone for this is just silly. The officer should have just given him a warning, perhaps even a written warning so they can track repeat offenders. Life should have continued on. But the guy made a huge mistake if he really did become aggressive after they decided to arrest him, as that is a serious crime in most jurisdictions.
Haha You arrest a man just for charging phone how dumb!
In other news, Marcel Duchamp has been arrested for abstracting art.
You are welcome on my lawn.
20 years of hard labor
First, that should be "labour". Second, you will be put on a low fiber diet for those twenty years, so the labour isn't all that will be hard hard.
You know, this world isn't getting any better, it's just getting worse and worse.
PCSO is a Police Community Support Officer, these are not Police Officers, they have very limited powers (they cannot Arrest somebody) and are typically wannabe that cannot cut the grade and have very limited knowledge of the law and in this case even the English language given their confusion of the semantics difference between Abstration and Extraction.
UK Trains provide charging points for laptops and mobile phones and have signs announcing this, and this is also on the national rail website . These are low power and not suitable for a heavy load like a vacum cleaner.
"WiFi and power points for laptops and mobile phone chargers are available on some trains"
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/...
The guy was immediately 'de-arrested' and released by the custody Sergeant and why he will get compensation is due course for false arrest.
If you were drunken disorderly
*Drunk and disorderly
That's why you film everything. Either they will behave because of the camera, or they will screw up and face the consequences. Make sure you have auto-upload turned on and a strong password set.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Florida has a grocery store that had a homeless man arrested for charging his phone with an outlet outside the store. He took perhaps 15 cents in electricity and was sentenced to seven months in jail. You see Florida really loves and cares for the homeless. It sort of gives a whole new meaning to Christian charity doesn't it?
Why do they not switch it off from the fusebox if they are not meant to be used anyway?
switch them off from the fusebox while not in use by the cleaning crew - costs nothing and is also safer
So you think it is far more appropriate for them to have to develop a nonstandard plug rather than trust in the honesty and decency of the citizens of the UK?
Actually, I think a better policy would be "Need to charge your phone while you're on the train? Use our outlets!" It would be a good PR move for them and help build goodwill.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Or just label them. One of the things that mtr in Hongkong does well is put ample warnings up about what can lead to fines. And it's not all obvious.
You are probably thinking of "Walsall Gauge" 13A sockets beloved by the BBC or the T-bar-earth type that are quite common in communal areas in flats.
No - modern trains, at least all the ones I am familiar with tend to have regular 13A sockets. On the Class 375 Electrostars, these are 1 per vestibule and are usually marked "Not for public use" or similar.
Now, London Routemaster buses, in the days before fluorescent lighting, used funny voltage bulbs to deter people from nicking them.
Why can't women be like Hedy Lamarr - beautiful, talented and inventors of frequency-hopping spread-spectrum techn
That's assuming there is a dedicated 240V line that runs through the train from cab to cab with a single breaker.
More likely there will be a breaker in each carriage or at least each unit (set of permanently joined carriages) - and this is likely to be in some cupboard rather that with the critical system breakers in the cab. So doing this will involve a certain amount of faff.
Yes, I guess they could have designed a computer initiated isolator on the socket circuits, but someone probably said "what's the point?"
Why can't women be like Hedy Lamarr - beautiful, talented and inventors of frequency-hopping spread-spectrum techn
I refer the honourable gentleman to my post above :)
Why can't women be like Hedy Lamarr - beautiful, talented and inventors of frequency-hopping spread-spectrum techn
Yeah, and then some asshole would ruin it for everyone by driving his Smart ED inside the train to charge it.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
Who knows what OTHER kinds of abstractions could get you nicked!
Abstracting the server layer - that's a week in the pound!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The fusebox is probably in the same cupboard the cleaning lady keeps her vacuum in...
Here I was thinking he was attempting to abstract electricity and come up with his own implementation — an undeniable threat to the stability of the Commonwealth — but instead he's just a petty thief...
Ah well, wake me up when there's some real news, would you?
So you think it is far more appropriate for them to have to develop a nonstandard plug rather than trust in the honesty and decency of the citizens of the UK?
If the citizens of the UK are being decent about it and only drawing a few milliamps, then they should just allow them to do it, As long as they are not plugging in an outlet splitter or a high-wattage appliance such as a Hair dryer or Coffee pot, there is no material power draw....
Or else provide some coin-op power outlets and a keyswitch for staff use.
Which is totally opposite as it was half a century ago. At least, where I live. If you were too drunk to come home, you'd be taken by the cops to sleep it off and then you'd be able to go home without further consequences. Nowadays, if you drink too much you get arrested, it's added to your permanent record, a digital trail is created and you are labelled for life as an alcoholic.
On the other hand, real crime like robbery or burglary was a grave offence, meaning you'd be punished harshly and excommunicated from your family. These days they are handled as if they are victims of society, getting light sentences if caught at all (first offence a slap on the wrist, second offence some community service, and so on) and are usually out after a few hours. It will get ugly indeed.
From the article:
On a forum dedicated to the London Underground, members have pointed out that plug sockets on the trains are for cleaning equipment deployed when trains are in depots. They recommend not charging electronic equipment as there is a risk of power surge: âoeIf something was directly plugged into it (for example a standard computer, or a laptop without a battery in) the equipment would probably be damaged at any section gaps where the power supply changes from one substation to another!â
It's basically to avoid getting sued if a power surge breaks your device.
So assuming he fully-charged his iPhone 6 Plus, 11.1WH * 0.61 * 0.15/1000 = 0.00101565, he would have used 0.1 UK cents worth of electricity
11.1Wh * 0.61 ? i'm pretty sure if the efficiency is anything less than 100% it will take more energy to charge the battery and definitely not less... so shouldn't this be 11.1Wh * (1 / 0.61)?
Also i don't know what kind of crazy tiny cents you are using but there are only 100 penies in a GBP so it would be about 0.27p
The best engineering is the type of engineering that prevents people from doing the wrong thing with minimum expense. Using non-standard plugs and outlets is bad engineering; it requires costly ongoing retro-fitting as new cleaning equipment is purchased, and even then passengers might be tempted to tamper with a "live" electrical outlet in an attempt to make it work with their chargers.
But I would assume that the cleaners are not going to be cleaning the train while it is in service, correct? So, you have a master electrical switch in the train for "operational" and "maintenance" modes. When the train is being cleaned, it is placed in maintenance mode, and the power outlets are live. When the train is in operational mode, the outlets are disconnected. Very quickly the passengers learn that the outlets don't work. Problem solved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
~ Well, studies has shown that the origin of charge is from certain types of subatomic particles which have the property of electric charge. Electric charge gives rise to and interacts with the electromagnetic force, one of the four fundamental forces of nature. The movement of an electric charge becomes an electric current, which usually consists of...
~ Sir, I must ask you to stop. Please stand up and put your hands behind your back.
~ I'm sorry, were we talking too loud? I'm only helping my granddaughter with her homework...
~ Right, that's it! He's becoming aggressive! Release the dogs!
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
The "community police officer" is in the same business as the religious police in Saudi Arabia or Iran, or authorities in North Korea or Putin's Russia.
Congrats on not actually using the word "Gestapo", although it could hardly have been more hyperbolic otherwise.
Anyone who can equate asking someone not to use an outlet marked as not for public use and shipping people off to be flogged or interned in a labour camp is so far out of touch with reality it's not even amusing.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Just use the sockets from a different country. They can be bougt in bulk, with adapters, and you can trust that the average train passenger won't have or won't be arsed to figure out what country it is and buy an adapter.
Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
It was BS 1363 (introduced in 1947) which standardised the plugs, not the EU.
No need to develop a new plug, just use a round-pin plug
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
... On the other hand, real crime like robbery or burglary was a grave offence, meaning you'd be punished harshly and excommunicated from your family. These days they are handled as if they are victims of society, getting light sentences if caught at all (first offence a slap on the wrist, second offence some community service, and so on) and are usually out after a few hours. It will get ugly indeed.
Some privacy policy Slashdot.
More likely, a standard industrial plug could be used. For example, a twist lock. Standard enough to be available at a well stocked hardware store, but not likely something a passenger would have an adapter for.
If the socket fits...
This reminds me of an article I read over the weekend where an audience member at a Broadway play jumped on stage to try and plug their phone into a prop socket. That's right, it wasn't even a socket on a wall, it was part of the stage scenery.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Actually, until recently, most appliances in the UK were terminated in pigtails. You had to buy your own UK plug and wire it up yourself. (And it was taught in school how to wire a plug properly).
So technically, the COTS appliance would do absolutely squat since the line cord is provided as a pigtail anyways.
And while yes, you may need to "develop" a plug, there actually are plenty of existing plugs - using Australian plugs would suffice - the voltage and frequency is the same, and the angled pins would foil it. Or use one of the many North American ones (I think we have spinning locking ones that work at 240V that won't fit a standard 2 prong plug).
Then again, they are rather proud of their plug. And their ability to wire a plug.
How much would "abrupt phase changes" affect the switched-mode power supply in a typical USB charger?
If they're not for use by the public, then they should not be visible from public space, or the receptacle should be enclosed in a box that has to be lifted or opened for access. Simply attaching a label or sign to a publicly visible receptacle is not sufficient, since people won't notice the sign, and the receptacle itself is basically a universal sign for power available.
And what about people who cannot read the sign, due to a language barrier, or are illiterate? What good does a sign do then?
I was told that having a "Beware of Dog" sign was no protection against being sued if my dog bit someone, even in my fenced yard, due to the same reasoning.
FWIW most consumer devices are a considerable hazard as they have no 3rd prong "earth ground".
I thought the double insulation between housing and any line-level power supply was supposed to eliminate the need for case ground.
So you think it is far more appropriate for them to have to develop a nonstandard plug rather than trust in the honesty and decency of the citizens of the UK?
Yes. Appropriate behavior by design instead of by inspection, standard six sigma improvement. It wouldn't even have to be a "non-standard" plug, just one that doesn't match retail plugs. There are plenty of alternate plug designs already.
... well if you didn't want to redesign everything, you could you know, have a custom outlet and a custom extension/converter back to the normal plug you're used to. That way you don't need specialized equipment manufactured to use it.
Or you could put it under lock and key.
Or you could put a switch which energizes the outlet.
Or put the outlet on a timer in which it's only energized when the cleaning crew is scheduled to use it.
There are literally hundreds of easy to do schemes which don't rely on the kindness of people to function correctly.
I am not a lawyer, but it kind of sounds like the law he was charged with (or accused of) was really meant to stop people from stealing service for their entire household by installing a faulty meter or some sort of meter bypass device. It wasn't meant to stop people from using cents of electricity. Unless of course up to 5 years sounds like a reasonable punishment for that kind of crime.
Yes. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Just like the good old times. Post angers people. Read TFA and all those new details put it in a different light (he also later got 'unarrested'). And you get an even greater sense that you're still not getting the full story.
Many complain /. ain't what it used to be. But this is the classic /. type of content we're used to.
There's a reason why posts like these get the most replies.
Bonus points for misspelling 'extracting' as 'abstracting'. English ain't even my first language, but these words aren't even pronounced the same way.
Always read at -1, don't let others decide what you should and should not read.
Besides, the security guard or whatever she was needs some validation in her life, and making a stink about a few shillings of electricity and seeing the perp arrested probably made her feel all warm and fuzzy on the walk home to her studio flat and 13 cats.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
> So you think it is far more appropriate for them to have to develop a nonstandard plug rather than trust in the honesty and decency of the citizens of the UK?
Wait, we ARE talking about charging an iphone?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
And here I was going to write that the warning was on display in the Planning Office in Alpha Centauri, but you beat me to it.
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Police Community Support Officers are nothing more than mini-Nazis. They're a bunch of nosy busybodies who love to strut their bullshit authority and poke their noses into EVERYTHING whether it concerns them or not. They're not that different than the Brown Shirts of Nazi Germany.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Better know your law, people: abstracting electricity is a Statutory offence under the Theft Act 1968 and carries a sentence of FIVE YEARS.
You get less for fucking babies.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
no, we've had the best design of plug in the world ever since 1947. What you're confusing is the issue that only very recently the EU stepped in and mandated that every appliance sold shall have either a fixed lead with a moulded plug to BS1363 or a flylead fitted with a BS1363 plug. Bumped the margin of every single appliance which required a flylead down by something like three quid. Doesn't sound like much, but imagine if you're an indie computer shop owner having to supply two or three thousand of the things a year at cost to yourself.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Actually, I think a better policy would be "Need to charge your phone while you're on the train? Use our outlets!" It would be a good PR move for them and help build goodwill.
The article does mention that the outlets may be prone to surges when the train switches from one substation to another. Although the source for this concern was from the forums, and not an official voice from the London Overground, if that concern has any truth behind it then allowing people to plug in their sensitive electronics could actually be a very stupid policy.
> So you think it is far more appropriate for them to have to develop a nonstandard plug rather than trust in the honesty and decency of the citizens of the UK?
Wait, we ARE talking about charging an iphone?
Yes. But the plug did indicate that it was not for public use. Unless it was extremely urgent, you would expect a normal citizen to respect that request, I would hope.
Or put a locked cover on them that the cleaning staff has a key to open or knows the combination to open.
So you think it is far more appropriate for them to have to develop a nonstandard plug...
Wait. This is the UK right? Aren't they already using nonstandard plugs?
In Soviet UK, phone charges you?
this is England, where convicted criminals in jail get to drag the UK through the European Court of Human Rights because they're not being provided with free Sky Sports, while entire families are being destroyed by the State on a daily basis while being denied proper representation, witnesses, or even a proper court of Law.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
you don't need a cop to arrest a PCSO who has assaulted you.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
if I find you poking around in my garden I will arrest you for trespass.
My bounded property is not a public right of way.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
My god, someone is seriously reacting to that.
-- Cheers!
it was probably far less than 10p
10Whr is about as much as you need at the outlet to fully charge an iPhone 5s, and that will cost about 0.1 pence worst case at industrial rates in London. 1 millipound.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
The best engineering is the type of engineering that realizes that the scale of the problem is such that even having anyone qualified think long enough about the solution will cost more than the yearly "losses" due to the problem not being solved. The cost, to fully recharge (from flat battery) 1000 iPhones is about 1 pound. That's a very conservative figure. I don't know how many outlets are there for them to worry about, but even if a million phones get fully recharged per year that way, we're still talking about amounts that are, for a major rail operator, not unlike rounding errors. What's 1,000 pounds yearly of extra electricity cost for them? Nothing.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
1 per vestibule
Given 3 hours per charge time of iPhone 5s, and 0.1 pence cost of doing so, we have a daily cost, at full utilization, of 0.008 GBP per vestibule per day. Assuming 2 vestibules per car, and a car in constant operation, with the outlet constantly occupied by a charger, we're looking at a cost of roughly 5.84GBP per car per year. Given the overall car maintenance and railway operation costs, that's noise not worth paying any attention to.
Any "solution" to this imaginary "problem" will cost more than this. Even having someone qualified write a report as to why a solution is unnecessary will cost more than the yearly cost of electricity here.
TL;DR: Making a problem out of this makes one look very, very dumb.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Was he doing any harm, apart from the absolutely tiny amount of power consumed? I seems a waste of police time. If he hadn't been challenged, he wouldn't have reacted and therefore no further offence committed.
He probably didn't get "aggressive" just got pissed off. I'd wager money he never once used a threatening word or gesture, that he merely expressed outrage, like any of us would. This then becomes inflated into "unacceptable behavior." I've seen it over and over again:
1) Individual attracts attention of police for something innocuous, like having too much melanin, excess hair, non-conformist attire, etc.
2) Law Enforcement Authority (LEA, either public officer or private security) observes individual and waits for them to do something objectionable, however minor (broken taillight, liberating electricity, sitting on sidewalk).
3) LEA then has something they can inflate into "probable cause" or "reasonable suspicion" to detain or arrest individual. Any witnesses at trial will be posed a question whose honest answer will uphold the LEA's account of the incident.
4) Individual has expected reaction, namely, becomes outraged that they were selectively enforced.
5) Individual expresses outrage, either verbally or gesturally. No explicit threat is needed, just behavior other than calm subservience.
6) LEA then has something they can inflate into "aggressive behavior," "resisting arrest," or even "fear for the safety of myself or others." Again, any witnesses at trial will be posed a question whose honest answer will uphold the LEA's account of the incident.
7) Individual then goes to jail, often after being physically beaten. The likelihood of the beating is directly proportional to the melanin concentration / length of hair / degree of nonconformity present at phase 1).
Phase 5 is where most people screw up. In police states like the US and UK are becoming, the police get very offended if you don't respect their ahthoritah. Even talking back can get you beaten and thrown in jail, especially if your melanin concentrations are too high.
I can see the fnords!
Man charged with electricity theft !
I waited till early thirties. long after most of my peer group. no hope for that place. it's a sunken ship.
Ah ok, I guess I should have RTFA.
A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
According to a local commenting to the original article "... sockets on these trains are scarce, out of the way, with signs that clearly warn you not to use them. I travel on the overground frequently and I've never seen anyone doing it. The guy messed up, and rather than accept it and apologise when he was caught, he makes a big fuss and gets himself arrested. I'm sure everyone involved had better things to doâ¦"
No more abstract electricity!
You must acquit?
It would somehow be their fault if he got his Smart ED stuck while trying too since there's no sign that explicitly says DO NOT CHARGE YOUR CAR HERE.
You must acquit?
Dammit OJ! Could you just stop it with the bullshit excuses already? What's our tee time btw?
There are non-standard sockets they should have fitted instead then, so only company authorised equipment can be plugged in.
You take product off of the tables at sidewalk sales and walk off with it without paying, don't you? After all, if they didn't want you to take it, they should have kept it inside the store where you had to go through the register stand, right?
In the days when incandescent bulbs were used in the NY Subway System and they were uncovered, the bulbs had a reverse thread making them useless to consumers.
Why would the EU do that, when BS1363 is almost exclusively used in UK,Ireland?
http://www.worldstandards.eu/e...
If the railway 'encourages' the use of their power sockets, they could've held liable when a surge fries your device, forcing the Railway to slog through endless complaints and suits for damages, etc.
By labeling the outlets as 'not for use by the public' it neatly avoids all responsibility.
By having a member of 'public' arrested for using said outlets despite clear instructions not to is non-sensical. I doubt it really is against the law in any specific way, more of a 'derived offense' cooked up in the mind of a private security guard.
Ken
they mandated the plug, the British Government specified the type according to the 1363 standard in making the statutory instrument to conform to the EU Directive.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
should be arrested for violation of Article 101: willful ignorance. Why? Overspending for an overrated phone that everybody knows has pitiful battery life but has spawned an entire industry of remoras of which said phone maker takes a cut of the spoils.
The outlets are marked for cleaners. They are only allowed to use them when the train is stopped.
If anyone uses them when the train was running it would have diverted the power available and slowed the train down.
The train may have been late and the rail company could be fined.
Hence the use of the word "abstracted".