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Man Arrested After Charging iPhone On London Overground Train
An anonymous reader writes: 45-year-old Robin Lee was arrested after he used a socket on a London Overground train to charge up his iPhone. He was handcuffed and arrested for "abstracting electricity". Robin was then charged with "unacceptable behaviour" after "becoming aggressive" when objecting to his first arrest. The Guardian reports: "Speaking to the Evening Standard, Lee said he had been confronted by a police community support officer on the overground train from Hackney Wick to Camden Road on 10 July. The Overground is part of Transport For London’s wider network that also includes London Underground and the buses. 'She said I’m abstracting electricity. She kept saying it’s a crime. We were just coming into the station and there happened to be about four police officers on the platform. She called to them and said: ‘This guy’s been abstracting electricity, he needs to be arrested’.”
Yup. Let's spend thousands of dollars worth of man-hours and paperwork and court time over 10 cents worth of electricity.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Fucking Brits, can't even speak their own fucking language.
No story here.
keepin it real.
Would it be any different if he was charging a cheap Nolkia - or even his shaver?
We were called to Camden Road London Overground station on Friday 10 July to a report of a man becoming aggressive when challenged by a PCSO about his use of a plug socket onboard an Overground train.
While arrest may have been an overreaction, the guy was using a socket clearly marked not for public use and then seems to have become aggressive when asked to unplug his phone. Maybe he needs to look at his own behaviour as well.
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
They have to do time as a PCSO BEFORE they can be considered for training as a real Policeman... this one had been reading the law books and looking for anything to make a mark with...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
In Barcelona you'll find free-to-use sockets on FGC trains, some bus stops and metro stations.Usually 5v USB sockets.
one abstract country
The guy ignored the signs on the outlets stating that they were for use by cleaners only, not by passengers.
The police dropped the original charge but he apparently couldn't keep from mouthing off to the officers involved about it so they arrested him again.
*Yawn*
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
That's what you get for being pissy with the police.
"Oh, I'm sorry sir/ma'am, I wasn't aware that this is strictly prohibited. No,it won't happen again. Thank you sir/ma'am." .... and continue your day like nothing happened. Not that hard, is it? But I guess this guy had to cause trouble. I bet he got what he deserved.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Technically it's theft. You've cost the rail company money (pittance though it may be) and potentially risked a fire by plugging an unknown device into an electrical socket.
Even in my workplace, that will get you disciplined. You at least have to get a PAT test before you can do that and it's only by the goodwill of the employer that they let you use the sockets.
Incredibly petty? Maybe. But that's not the point. And getting aggressive about it is what really gets you arrested and in trouble, you could have talked your way out of the first "arrest" without problem but it may have made you late for work.
But, yes, technically, it's not your socket, it's not your electricity, the sockets are CLEARLY marked that you're not allowed to do that, you didn't ask permission.
In my workplace (schools), we have told off parents for doing exactly this during open-days, etc. They just wander into the school and plug into the first socket they see and then leave the device on and charging and wander off.
We use threat of the same law to stop them doing it (but we probably wouldn't go so far as arrest, but arrest is NOT a charge - people always confuse this distinction - you arrest somebody to stop them leaving while you work out if they've actually committed a crime that anybody cares about), but we're not worried about the electricity cost as much as the electrical safety implications. If their cheap shit Chinese charger catches fire and burns down the school, we don't care who was liable, but our insurers and lawyers sure will.
And I'm not talking tiny state schools, but large independent (private) schools where pissing off a parent costs you more money than you earn in a year if they pull their kids out. But still we don't let them do it.
It's petty. But it's still theft, effectively (the name of the charge is just a specific one for theft of electricity). Arrest may be an overreaction but arrest is not charge. Getting aggressive over something you know you shouldn't have done (no matter how petty) gets you arrested twice, and certainly charged at least once.
Don't plug into other people's sockets without asking. And if you can't ask or think the answer might be no, don't plug into the socket anyway.
And then there's the question of how did you activate the socket because all the UK train sockets I see are keyed with a large hex-key in order to turn them on. It's not just a case of plugging in by accident not realising the socket wasn't for public use.
Meanwhile in Estonia you can charge you battery on a train for free (well, after you buy the ticket).
Only government can be wrong. If any problems exist, it must be government. Therefore your post will be ignored because it tries to blame the person who is actually at fault, and it's not government.
Because we pay government.
Apparently these people steal all the goods they require and therefore don't pay private industry at all.
On this actual subject, this is 100% LOL worthy and really did have me snigger because I'm thinking "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK ELECTRICAL SOCKETS ARE FOR YOU DUMBASS!!!".
This is 100% absolutely an asshole and the subservience to private authority by virtue of being fucking wealthy and not a problem with government, but with the slavery of the proletariat by monied power.
And, yes, that DOES sound socialist.
Why? Because just like government can be a problem in abusing power, power given to capital is ALSO a problem.
I do it all the time on Swiss trains. Then again, if they put a socket above every seat (on modern trains at least), I somehow expect they won't mind.
I gave up sigs almost a year ago.
"Artist" with entitlement complex uses power socket on train clearly marked as "Cleaners only, not for public use".
Authorised authority requests that he stops using the socket, reminding him that it is illegal theft of service.
With any normal person this situation would have ended here. Guy behaves like a prat because he's entitled.
At the train pulls into the next station there's police officers standing around, and authorised authority requests assistance.
Guy is arrested under suspicion of theft of service due to statement by authorised authority. (Note, disobeying a reasonable direction by an authorised authority is an offence by itself, but that wasn't pursued). Guy continues to behave like an entitled prat.
Police decide not to press ahead theft of service and instead charge him with a anti-social behaviour offence (which can cover both the electricity theft and the behaviour towards the authorised authority). This charge is a relatively minor offence covered by fixed fines (or exclusion orders), similar to a parking or speeding fine. This reduces the overhead and cost on the justice system having to deal with this prat.
The police and authorised authority appeared to act in a reasonable manner. The only unreasonable person is the "artist" that ignored a clear sign, stole service, then had the cheek to get aggressive when asked to stop.
Insane. Here in sweden we have a socket or two by every seat on the bigger trains, like the one going between Copenhagen and Stockholm. And even on the smaller ones you're totally free to use any sockets found in the public area of the train.
Frankly, there are too many police.
The original intention of 'protect and serve' seems now to be to 'bully, control and dominate'
the police man was just enforcing the laws written by the legislature. He was just doing the job he was supposed to be doing.
So what you are essentially saying... is that he was "just following orders".
Too soon in the comments?
Language consists not of what is written in reference books, that is a mere snapshot of language use. Language is what is in daily use.
Hear, hear!
It's a perfectly cromulent use of the word!
Ha, you got to hand it to the police community support officer, she must have been bored or maybe, just maybe she is the hero and saved the tax payer from paying 0.003 pennies in electricity.
The company/government department could've put in charging booths that charge (heh) a nominal fee for service. It's not hard, hell, it's already being done at airports, entertainment centres and other large, public-access areas.
They're no different to a vending machine or those storage locker things, just plop your money in, open the little door, plug your phone in to one of the range of mini/micro/apple chargers and wait. 20c (~10p?) For 10 minutes, $1/hour. Simple, sorted.
This would:
- Solve the problem of 'leeching' power
- Bring in some revenue
- Make stories like this a non-issue.
Attractive nuissance.
If they didn't want people using the outlets, they'd either omit them, or use an outlet/plug design that was incompatible with standard plugs, and there wouldn't be a problem. It's not like the vacuum cleaners are being taken home and used by the transit staff, so a permanent modification wouldn't be a problem.
Yeah ofcourse he was arrested only for using the socket........... He propably was told it was illegal to use the socket and was written a fine, but then he got a big mouth and that's why he got arrested, and trying to arrest him he got even agressive and that was the second offence.. There are always 2 sides to the story, and ofcourse according to him, he did nothing and only used the outlet...
Then again, why don't they just replace the socket with a plug that isn't compatible with any consumer plug... But people are getting more bold/rude and think they can just charge their device anywhere without permission.. I've seen it a lot in bars etc, people just unplugging an appliance or light just to charge their f-ing phone and not even putting the plug back in, and all without asking..
Thank god I live in Switzerland. Power sockets are seen as part of the service on the federal railway and are even available in the 2nd class coaches.
In a totalitarian system the common person is always subject to the whims of those in a position of power, no matter how lowly. The individual is supposed to submit to any authority at any time no matter what the circumstance and what the demand. The full power of the state is imposed no matter how minimal the infraction. The only acceptable attitude is abject fear and paranoia. Anything else, like talking back, is immediate grounds for arrest or worse.
This case is only a matter of degree, not a matter of kind. The "community police officer" is in the same business as the religious police in Saudi Arabia or Iran, or authorities in North Korea or Putin's Russia.
The fact that is was done under the guise of a private company shows that this is a fascist regime. If it was done directly because he was "abstracting electricity" from the people then it would be a left wing totalitarian regime. That is the only difference.
What wrong assumption are you making about your society?
Why is Snark Required?
from the flamebaid title to the idiotic tags, this is an absolutely shitty submission, through and through
Is this slashdot anymore?
Who the hell accepted this submission? samzenpus? Go gargle some brake fluid.
Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
Technically it's theft. You've cost the rail company money (pittance though it may be) and potentially risked a fire by plugging an unknown device into an electrical socket.
I stopped reading here and I'm seriously hoping you're kidding. "risked a fire"? Seriously?
Apple recalled millions of their original iPhone/iPod touch chargers. The small 5W USB adapter, they were a fire hazard. They still use the design, last I checked they still put the little green dot on them that differentiated the later safer models from the original hazardous models.
You sir are an intolerant dickwad.
It uses a tiny amount of electricity, yet you threaten them with arrest? If they turned on the lights would you arrest them? If they used the toilet without asking first arrest? How about you just LIGHTEN UP and quit being such a jobsworth!
"And I'm not talking tiny state schools, but large independent (private) schools where pissing off a parent costs you more money than you earn in a year if they pull their kids out. But still we don't let them do it."
Do you think it would be acceptable in a cheap public school?? That makes no difference, its a minor thing, like walking in the wrong door, or not 'standing on the right' on an escalator, don't revel in being such a dick, because people treating each other as dicks over minor things make life a PITA. You make life a PITA.
Ahem Let's spend thousands of pounds over 6 pence worth of electricity
Meanwhile, in Germany, most trains include power sockets precisely so passengers can charge their laptops/phones/whatever.
These would be the sockets that say "not for public use" on them. The sockets that are provided for the cleaners to plug their vacuum cleaners into and, if used when the train is operating, could be subjected to power spikes and liable to fry your electronics and cause a fire? Yeah, I have no sympathy. I don't doubt the police could be doing better things (although I'm no engineer, if this really does pose a serious safety risk, perhaps it is a good use of their time) but when you're on someone else's train you play by someone else's rules. If that means not using the sockets, so be it.
it's a fucking epidemic where I work. Kids have 0 respect for anything especially school property so they will just unplug anything and plug their fucking phone in and then when they leave just leave shit unplugged when they're done.
They also think every computer is a charging station and that it's perfectly okay to have their phone out and using it 24/7. It's technically against the rules but they're not enforced because literally every single kid has one and administrators gave up. They're all on free lunch (supposedly because of poverty) too but have phones and most of them have something expensive.
It gets worse, every time there is even the tiniest altercation or anything at all the phones come out and there are 800 videos, some of them make the news making schools look more dangerous than they actually are. I could write a novel about this after the years I've spent posting A/C no one will read this anyway.
captcha: anarchic
They used to arrest people in the Los Angeles subways for the same thing - but the Mayor finally stopped the ridiculous practice:
"This is simply common sense. I want our law enforcement resources directed toward serious crime, not cell phone charging."
http://www.scpr.org/news/2014/...
That is the easy fix. If they stick power outlets on trains that are not meant for the public, then they should ensure it doesn't work for the public. For example by using a non-standard power outlet that does not accept standard charger plugs, and perhaps by supplying some unusable power level through it. Like 400V or so. That will teach the public really quick.
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
If I see a sign that says "not for public use" then I, as a member of the public, wouldn't even consider using it.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
When I clicked on the link to see the definition of "abstracting electricity", in the section on case law the offense cited was meter tampering. As in substantionally "more than a few electrons." The cost of prosecution would far exceed the cost of the electricity used. (I would also see where this particular law would apply to unauthorized taps or splices, where the power draw would be signifiant.)
One issue the article did bring up: the power at that train-car outlet isn't at all clean. If it uses external power pickup (third rail or overhead catenary) I could see where the surges, sags and dropouts would be severe enough to damage a phone or laptop, especially as the drive motors of the train, a highly inductive load, would cause very large spikes as the power pickup loses and re-makes contact. Contrast that with a long-haul train which supplies power from a locomotive generator, which shouldn't flicker at all.
So it could well be that there is a cause for action of a different sort: "We are not liable for any damage caused by plugging anything into the outlets on this train."
"a 45-year-old artist based in Islington"
Get a proper job, you stupid fucking hipster.
Summation 2
In France, on their TGVs (High speed trains) there are outlets for every seats. ....
ditto in Germany, Luxembourg, Belgium
The London Tourist office is surely not amused.
an android or windows phone? would he have been so 'abused'? ok, maybe the three people who own win phones might not live in london, and anyway, why was he on the train mixing with the hoi-poli, why didn't he use uber?
Charging his phone up from a socket not intended for the purpose? Trivial. It's antisocial behaviour, but I seriously doubt he needed to do anything more than stop, apologise and plead stupidty.
Getting aggressive with a PCSO when asked to stop? The man's clearly an idiot. No need to pretend.
I was born and lived in Yorkshire, England for 20 years, a place that has a light-hearted reputation for being tight with money. A couple of years ago my girlfriend and I went on a road trip and visited Yorkshire. We had breakfast in a cafe where I plugged in my phone. The owner came over and started talking about how we were putting him out of business and electricity isn't cheap etc. We thought he was joking at first. But then he asked us for 50p to cover the cost of the electric. He was serious.
The kids from school that became coppers were the snide ones. The others may not start out like that; but they deal with horrible people everyday. They become insane. I worked with a plastic copper for 4 years. The Us Vs Them mentality he had was horrible.
Don't talk or deal with them. Always be ultra polite to the police. Yes Officer, No Officer, 3 bags full Officer. Get away from them.
She may have been horrible when dealing with him, he was horrible back. They real police where not going to take his side.
The 0.0001p of electric used was never the issue.
COMPLY
Bureau of silly cops.
I expect this outlet had no signage interdicting use, no trained spider chained there with a floss leash to bite charge thieves?
I ask, why not....?
When are they going to start charging for air? Or maybe give us all pills so we stop abstracting electricity like in the movie EQUILIBRIUM
The guy was lucky there was a PCSO on the train. If his Apple charger decided to object to the out-of-spec supply by blowing up and happened to trip the train breakers, that PCSO might have been the only thing between the iphone idiot and a whole lot of London commuters about to deliver a well deserved kicking - one boot each, Murder on the Camden Express.
Yes. And you can own guns in Switzerland as well. And use encryption. And when you meet some member of the parliament or even the federal council on the tram (because they use public transportation) you can wave them hello and they will wave back.
Why does the train have operational, accessible sockets if they are not to be used by the PAYING passengers??
Haha You arrest a man just for charging phone how dumb!
In other news, Marcel Duchamp has been arrested for abstracting art.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Funny, here in Stockholm the use of the cleaners wall sockets in the newest commutertrains for gadget charging has been common practice for many years. There's now even official stickers showing where they are. Even better, the new bus model that's just being rolled out this summer have two USB charging sockets per double seat (newspaper article in swedish) and one socket at the weelchair spot (shared with any strollers).
You know, this world isn't getting any better, it's just getting worse and worse.
Too many people are using the electrical outlets meant only for the cleaning crew. Authorities chose one to be made an example to the others. He's bitching about it.
PCSO is a Police Community Support Officer, these are not Police Officers, they have very limited powers (they cannot Arrest somebody) and are typically wannabe that cannot cut the grade and have very limited knowledge of the law and in this case even the English language given their confusion of the semantics difference between Abstration and Extraction.
UK Trains provide charging points for laptops and mobile phones and have signs announcing this, and this is also on the national rail website . These are low power and not suitable for a heavy load like a vacum cleaner.
"WiFi and power points for laptops and mobile phone chargers are available on some trains"
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/...
The guy was immediately 'de-arrested' and released by the custody Sergeant and why he will get compensation is due course for false arrest.
Florida has a grocery store that had a homeless man arrested for charging his phone with an outlet outside the store. He took perhaps 15 cents in electricity and was sentenced to seven months in jail. You see Florida really loves and cares for the homeless. It sort of gives a whole new meaning to Christian charity doesn't it?
Who knows what OTHER kinds of abstractions could get you nicked!
Abstracting the server layer - that's a week in the pound!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's not theft.
It's arson.
When I saw that the was "abstracting", I immediately thought that he was using some type of object oriented electricity encapsulating or inheritance process. It turns out he was just stealing electricity. Perhaps there needs to be a little old man or woman standing by each outlet and charging people to plug in, similar to the use of toilets / WCs. I the US, there would be much outrage.
From the article:
On a forum dedicated to the London Underground, members have pointed out that plug sockets on the trains are for cleaning equipment deployed when trains are in depots. They recommend not charging electronic equipment as there is a risk of power surge: âoeIf something was directly plugged into it (for example a standard computer, or a laptop without a battery in) the equipment would probably be damaged at any section gaps where the power supply changes from one substation to another!â
It's basically to avoid getting sued if a power surge breaks your device.
So assuming he fully-charged his iPhone 6 Plus, 11.1WH * 0.61 * 0.15/1000 = 0.00101565, he would have used 0.1 UK cents worth of electricity
11.1Wh * 0.61 ? i'm pretty sure if the efficiency is anything less than 100% it will take more energy to charge the battery and definitely not less... so shouldn't this be 11.1Wh * (1 / 0.61)?
Also i don't know what kind of crazy tiny cents you are using but there are only 100 penies in a GBP so it would be about 0.27p
If the train companies can get support from PCSOs to enforce Electricity Abstraction laws then I want to charge my train company for the daily abstraction of my time due to track/train related delays.
This accounts for a shed load more money wasted - my time plus thousands of other people's time - than a 10 minute charge of a bloody phone!
Paul Blart the mallcop....
Meanwhile, in Canada, man rides across country and charges e-bike along the way entirely for free. Calculates the cost at about 10cents a day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The man was charging at high speed... that is definitely dangerous.
OTOH, I thought people could only be arrested for factual crimes, not for abstracting ones.
Let's also take a lesson from all this to protect us in the future: beware of practical people, because they hate abstracting. One of these might kill you -- if that's more practical.
Finally, it's the UK: the arrested man could consider himself lucky that he wasn't shot right there in the train.
Estimated cellphone charger power usage:
(5 watts) * 30 minutes = 0.0025 kilowatt hours
1 kwh costs on average 0.14 GBP
So he stole 0.00035 GBP from the government, of course it's the government they'll spend tens of thousands trying to get it back.
The more reasonable responses would be to allow people to charge phones (and damage their chargers as they claim), or to write citations and harass those people by mail like the rest of the civilized world.
http://ghostbusters.wikia.com/...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Is it legal to do the same (I mean charge phone) on the airport?
I pay absurd airport fees so I take it for granted.
Same with subway, I paid for ticket, they provided outlet (without a note "for staff only") - I paid for it.
This reminds me of an article I read over the weekend where an audience member at a Broadway play jumped on stage to try and plug their phone into a prop socket. That's right, it wasn't even a socket on a wall, it was part of the stage scenery.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
outlet charges you....
How much would "abrupt phase changes" affect the switched-mode power supply in a typical USB charger?
FWIW most consumer devices are a considerable hazard as they have no 3rd prong "earth ground".
I thought the double insulation between housing and any line-level power supply was supposed to eliminate the need for case ground.
Because I know on the Amtrak Acela express trains there are outlets at every seat for the convenience of charging your stuff.
Just like the good old times. Post angers people. Read TFA and all those new details put it in a different light (he also later got 'unarrested'). And you get an even greater sense that you're still not getting the full story.
Many complain /. ain't what it used to be. But this is the classic /. type of content we're used to.
There's a reason why posts like these get the most replies.
Bonus points for misspelling 'extracting' as 'abstracting'. English ain't even my first language, but these words aren't even pronounced the same way.
Always read at -1, don't let others decide what you should and should not read.
Police Community Support Officers are nothing more than mini-Nazis. They're a bunch of nosy busybodies who love to strut their bullshit authority and poke their noses into EVERYTHING whether it concerns them or not. They're not that different than the Brown Shirts of Nazi Germany.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Better know your law, people: abstracting electricity is a Statutory offence under the Theft Act 1968 and carries a sentence of FIVE YEARS.
You get less for fucking babies.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
In Soviet UK, phone charges you?
1. why are their outlets on the train if they are not to be used?
why are there outlets on the train
Was he doing any harm, apart from the absolutely tiny amount of power consumed? I seems a waste of police time. If he hadn't been challenged, he wouldn't have reacted and therefore no further offence committed.
Man charged with electricity theft !
... that shit suddenly got real.
No more abstract electricity!
what I just spent an hour reading is maybe the silliest thread I've read in some time.
Not only is the topic matter is about 10p in electricity! Really! It's about a petty private renta cop abusing power. It's about a perp simply saying sorry and defusing the encounter. It's about a Brit objecting to the American use of our system of currency and it's related postings......
Really guys? Really?
And you Brits criticize us Americans? The electricity used is minuscule. I'm floored this is a real issue.
Put cell chargers on the train. Any combustion engine produces more electric than it uses. Put outlets on the train where you swipe a credit card and you plug in for 1 hour to charge the phone. Make money stop being Nazis'
I've seen many a s.o on trains,always thought it was generous provision like WiFi;there no notices of indication they were not to used
A waste of olive resources id say especially after the man was later âoeun-arrestedâ for the offence.
Same in NYC, there were arrests that I know, then outlets started popping out here and there unreliably as any **offended one** would turn them off as soon as possible. DD offers plugs, very popular way to attract clients; DD workers shut them down and never fix them after broken, and the same happens in other chains. In the end free power for electronics is a technical problem but underlying it is the deep misery of individuals who cannot understand this is the modern world and using electricity is a MUST, portable electricity is a basic need, electricity becomes cheaper the more we use it, electronics are inexpensive in terms of electrical power, etc. This news comes out a few days after I see for the first time an individual, Indian, charging from an open outlet from the CEILING LIGHTS in a subway station, along with a power extension and ostensibly blocking one third of the corridor with his cable. I thought it was too much and risky! Particularly being one block away from an outlet bearing DD. No action was taken, but even I than am loaded with extra extra-charge batteries and solar chargers considered that discovery as a very last resort in case of a very real, personal, charging emergency... A serious study should be performed in both countries and the rest of the modern world to ENSURE (free and) sufficient and reliable outlets be widely available for electronics in the age of portable electronics! As a matter of Principle.
should be arrested for violation of Article 101: willful ignorance. Why? Overspending for an overrated phone that everybody knows has pitiful battery life but has spawned an entire industry of remoras of which said phone maker takes a cut of the spoils.
The outlets are marked for cleaners. They are only allowed to use them when the train is stopped.
If anyone uses them when the train was running it would have diverted the power available and slowed the train down.
The train may have been late and the rail company could be fined.
Hence the use of the word "abstracted".