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The Nations That Will Be Hardest Hit By Water Shortages By 2040

merbs writes: Water access is going to be one of the most pressing issues of the 21st century. As climate change dries out the already dry areas and makes the wet ones wetter, we're poised to see some radical civilizational shifts. For one, a number of densely populated areas will come under serious water stress—which analysts fear will lead to strife, thirst, and even violent conflict. With that in mind, the World Resource Institute has assembled a new report projecting which nations are most likely to be hardest hit by water stress in coming decades—nations like Bahrain, Israel, Palestine, and Spain lead the pack.

203 comments

  1. Refreshing. by bigfinger76 · · Score: 0

    I was expecting a listicle.

  2. Alaska by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I love how Alaska gets included with the rest of the nation even though we have nothing close to a water shortage with all the glaciers up here. We should have been grouped with Canada.

    1. Re:Alaska by NicBenjamin · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you're gonna divide it up like that the Great Lakes bit of the Midwest should have no shortage, either. The prairie bit of the Midwest is in much bigger trouble because the Oglala Aquifer is being drawn down too much, and the Mississippi is probably gonna be schizo with more evaporation (ie: lots of heat meaning more evaporation, and some years the rain'll come down within the Mississippi valley and they'll have too much, and others it won't and they'll have too little). The Pacific Northwest should also be fine.

      I suspect the South, Southwest, and Cali will have the biggest problems.

      No idea about the Northeast.

    2. Re:Alaska by hawguy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I love how Alaska gets included with the rest of the nation even though we have nothing close to a water shortage with all the glaciers up here. We should have been grouped with Canada.

      Did you read the headline? The Nations That Will Be Hardest Hit By Water Shortages By 2040. Unless Alaska has somehow seceded from the union, I don't see how they could group Alaska with Canada.

      There are plenty of other US state drought maps that you can use if you really care about a single state's water, but don't complain that a global representation of drought was not local enough for you.

    3. Re:Alaska by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      It would make a lot more sense to build up a map of regions where areas with the highest shortages are plotted, much like the US drought monitor but worldwide.

      There are areas within countries with a lot of water like Canada where there's a shortage because the population density is too high as well as areas where there's no shortage of water even though it's arid because few people live there.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    4. Re:Alaska by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      I love how Alaska gets included with the rest of the nation even though we have nothing close to a water shortage with all the glaciers up here. We should have been grouped with Canada.

      You have glaciers now. But California gets, um got a significant amount of water from its mountain snowpack, as well. Another big chunk of Greenland glacier fell off into the sea this week.

      Florida has been under water restrictions for decades. And it's surrounded by water on 3 sides. Just not potable water.

    5. Re:Alaska by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 1

      Yes, Alaska and Canada will be water suppliers to the lower 48

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    6. Re:Alaska by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      A lot of weather forecasting is done based upon analysis of past data with prior weather patterns. More accurate future weather forecasting will require analysis of future stable weather patterns. Localising data is very difficult at the moment as weather patterns oscillate somewhere between past weather patterns and future developing weather patterns.

      Water shortages are subject to water usage at particular locations, so more water in areas not developed to make use of it and less water in areas fully developed to make use of existing availability.

      Water as a resource is unlike other resources and totally bound to energy availability. With surplus cheap energy, there is no such thing as a water shortage, as you could condense it straight out of the atmosphere.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    7. Re:Alaska by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      great lakes too... even more amusing when right next store it's low yet still in the great lakes basin...

      most other areas of the country are also similarly mislabeled.

    8. Re:Alaska by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect the South, Southwest, and Cali will have the biggest problems.

      No, the whole country will have problems...except maybe Alaska and Hawaii. The Pacific Northwest will be fine until the rest of the country starts raiding us en masse. We're already fighting Nestlé.

    9. Re:Alaska by johnlcallaway · · Score: 0, Troll

      And based on the number if times the climate change fear mongers change their models and find excuses past predictions didn't come close, I'd say any future prediction is just about worthless. At any level.

      --
      I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
    10. Re:Alaska by userw014 · · Score: 2

      Drought is relative too. An ecology evolved for wetter conditions can suffer when precipitation falls - even to levels that would be considered "wet" elsewhere. The northern part of the lower peninsula of the State of Michigan has been under fire-watch/no-burn orders over the summer for the past few years, even though Michigan is surrounded by the Great Lakes. A few years back, parts of the south around Georgia were under drought conditions.

      There is fraking (hydraulic fracturing) extraction occurring in Michigan - and because of shallow water tables in some areas, the fraking operators are demanding large quantities of water from local water systems because on-site wells can't supply their needs (to make a speculative profit.) These demands on local water systems exceed the capacity of systems designed for residential and light industrial use - and might require local communities to overbuild local water systems for transient gain by non-local companies and investors.

      Of course, given the importance Californian agriculture has for the whole of the United States, drought conditions there impact everyone

    11. Re:Alaska by kellymcdonald78 · · Score: 1

      This is the Pacific Northwest that is currently on fire (as in 500km away I can hardly see across the street due to the smoke from Washington State)

    12. Re:Alaska by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lots of people in the continental U.S. should irrigate their lawns, wash their cars, and use garden hoses to push leaves into the street, instead of sweeping with a broom, more than they do now. Maybe we can beat expectations and have a severe water shortage by 2020 instead of having to wait until 2040!
      U.S.A.!
      U.S.A.!

      captcha: redone

    13. Re:Alaska by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, you're right. Brazil, the most water-endowed country in the world is rather uneven regarding the location of the resources. The southeast [and most advanced] region is going through a big drought. But it is good to know the long term panorama is not as bleak as other American countries' [since I happen to live in BR]. Maybe we should also start thinking about building walls...

    14. Re:Alaska by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      While there's lots of fresh water in the Great Lakes, the watershed really isn't all that big, so it won't renew itself real fast. Drain it too fast, and there will be some pretty big problems from lowering lake levels.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    15. Re:Alaska by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Two points:

      1) Unlike many watersheds, particularly towards the coast, it's a closed system except for evaporation. Chicago water comes from, and goes to, the same lake. This water is then available for Chicago again, or (more likely) can be pumped into Michigan for irrigation, Milwaukee's water system, etc. And then it proceeds through Huron, Erie, and Ontario; and is usable by Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Buffalo, etc. etc.

      2) The lakes contain a fifth of the world's fresh water. The watershed population them contain much less then a fifth of the human race (by my count it's 1% or so, it's hard to do more precisely because the political borders do not match up to the hydrological borders).

      Which means we'd have to be using as truly ridiculous amount of water before the fact it was in the fields irrigating Cherries (and not in the lake) started affecting the lake-level in any measurable way; and we'd have to keep doing it for literally decades before we got to Cali-levels of fucked by global warming.

    16. Re:Alaska by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      But the question wasn't "Are they gonna be in some trouble?" Everybody's in some trouble (except Alaska and, mayhaps, the Great Lakes). It's "Are they in more trouble then everyone else?"

      And the cities of the Pacific Northwest are probably fine, because that constant mist of rain off the ocean probably won't change, so in theory they don't *have* to ration water (they almost certainly will anyway because Portland). The interior is less fine, but it's not really more un-fine then Idaho, the Imperial Valley, or any of another half-dozen places.

    17. Re:Alaska by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Closed system? So that big river (the St. Lawrence) extending to the Atlantic has been filled in or dam put in?

    18. Re: Alaska by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its 2015. I count at least a couple of those decades you mention on the way to the year mentioned in the article heading. ...

      Panic :P

    19. Re:Alaska by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      [joke] That bits on your side of the border. It's your problem. [/joke]

      That was hyperbole. Niagara Falls does exist, but in terms of the bit of the lakes that the US uses, almost none of it is anywhere near the Falls. It's very easy for most American cities to use up their water supply because the place water goes is not a place you can easily get freshwater from. Phoenix's mostly goes to the sky as evaporation, and will come down somewhere that is not Arizona, LA and NYC send theirs to the ocean. Cities on rivers tend to send it downriver. But Chicago actually gets it's water from the same place it discharges it's wastewater. Detroit (which is downlake two Great Lakes, Lake St. Clair, and a couple rivers from Chicago) both gets it's water from the lake system and gives it back to the Lake system. You don't get to a point where the US Side of the border actually loses a gallon of water somebody uses until you hit Buffalo.

      That means it takes a lot more water-use before we use up the lake.

    20. Re:Alaska by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love how Alaska gets included with the rest of the nation even though we have nothing close to a water shortage with all the glaciers up here. We should have been grouped with Canada.

      Water shortage? OK, Whats the solution? Answer: Let them drink wine.

    21. Re:Alaska by mcswell · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm wondering about that premise in the original article: (all?) dry areas will get drier, and (all?) wet areas wetter. How do we know it won't be the other way around? This can only be the prediction of a model, and the predictions from models, even the short term/ local ones, thus far don't strike me as very good. In particular, predictions about winter snowfall and hurricane seasons seem to have been way off for the last 10-20 years.

    22. Re:Alaska by mcswell · · Score: 1

      Florida has been under water restrictions for decades. And it's surrounded by water on 3 sides. Just not potable water.

      Couldn't have anything to do with its 3-fold population growth over the last 50 or so years, now could it?

  3. And the kings gonna say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If ye donâ(TM)t have water then bathe in wine

    1. Re:And the kings gonna say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, on Slashdot, when you type in unisex, your post comes out like:

      If you dóna háva the water, then bathe in the wína...

  4. Speculation on top of speculation by Crashmarik · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh well, I suppose people with very stable and safe lives need to find something to fear.

    1. Re:Speculation on top of speculation by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 2

      "Those who fail to plan, plan to fail"
      -Sphinx

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    2. Re:Speculation on top of speculation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Guys, where is my nose?"
      -Sphynx

    3. Re:Speculation on top of speculation by Crashmarik · · Score: 0

      fools and their money are soon parted.
      -Tax Payers

    4. Re:Speculation on top of speculation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, tax payers never said that. The saying is "A fool and his money are soon parted" which is unattributed.

      But how about "Death finds you easiest if you close your eyes to danger first" - Anonymous Coward.

    5. Re:Speculation on top of speculation by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Sorry, tax payers never said that. The saying is "A fool and his money are soon parted" .

      I am sure they have said that.

    6. Re:Speculation on top of speculation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The true hero is the one with the courage to run away

    7. Re: Speculation on top of speculation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Domo arigato, Mister Roboto"
      -- Styx

    8. Re:Speculation on top of speculation by LessThanObvious · · Score: 1

      The only thing we have to sell, is fear itself.

  5. That's messed up by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    By 2040 we should have all that crap sorted out. If there are any shortages, it's because some corrupt bastard is mucking up the works. There is absolutely no longer any technical reason to suffer shortages of any kind anywhere.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:That's messed up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      some corrupt bastard is mucking up the works.

      Why would you think they would be any fewer in 2040?

    2. Re:That's messed up by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm assuming you're talking about desalination. That requires a lot of energy, and there's no way short of a revolution in fusion technology that you could use that to produce enough water for irrigation of any significant amount of stable land. And you're still left with the problem may users of aquifers are suffering; way to much salt.

      A succinct change in rain patterns will almost certainly turn land now under cultivation into semi arid lands, without sufficient fresh water to reverse the problem.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:That's messed up by hawguy · · Score: 3, Informative

      By 2040 we should have all that crap sorted out. If there are any shortages, it's because some corrupt bastard is mucking up the works. There is absolutely no longer any technical reason to suffer shortages of any kind anywhere.

      It can take a decade or longer to do an environmental review, get permits, and build a large desalination plant (and decades more to build a nuclear plant to power it). Building a dam or large reservoir can take even longer (and still needs time to fill).

      While some progress will be made, don't count on the problem being solved in 25 years.

    4. Re:That's messed up by kenwd0elq · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Any major change in rain patterns will likely cause water shortages in SOME places and water surpluses in others.The desert Southwest of the United States was probably fertile and green 700 years ago; after all, the Anasazi had a civilization of SOME sort then, and there hasn't been any water around in the last few hundred. Everything goes in cycles; don't expect that every change will be a bad one.

    5. Re: That's messed up by Laconique · · Score: 1

      I find it even more painful that much of Africa is not using that much water. That's only because the corruption and the lack of infrastructure. Richer countries, though with some exceptions all around, find it affordable to use a lot

    6. Re:That's messed up by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that government is the major impediment to progress? I agree!

    7. Re:That's messed up by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm assuming you're talking about desalination.

      There is that. The bigger issue is transportation. There's plenty of water, just not where we need it at the moment. And we have to restore contaminated water. Time to build some big-ass, nuclear powered tunnel boring machines, and pipe it around like oil, gas, and battery acid. And after bailing out the bankers, I don't want hear anybody crying that we don't have the money. There's plenty of that also, just not where we need it at the moment...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    8. Re:That's messed up by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And what if that rainfall change leads to greater rainfall on one side of a national border and far leads arable conditions on the other? Imagine of large swathes of the Midwest are rendered unsuitable for large scale agriculture, because rainbelts have moved into Canada. Suddenly the United States' food security is in a foreign country's hands.

      There are serious geopolitical ramifications of male changes in rainfall patterns.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    9. Re:That's messed up by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Read about the water wars in California and neighboring states when the Colorado River was tapped to turn desert into oasis. Any jurisdiction that imagines it is just going to wholesale grab another jurisdiction's water is likely in for a rude surprise. Now imagine if those jurisdictions are in different nations.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    10. Re:That's messed up by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      We can always do a reenactment of the War of 1812... on location... with live rounds...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    11. Re:That's messed up by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is disturbing when war is the cheapest and easiest way to acquire water. It's happening in the Middle East also.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    12. Re:That's messed up by hawguy · · Score: 2

      So you're saying that government is the major impediment to progress? I agree!

      No, its the under educated voters that vote on emotion and sound bites rather than issues. Oh yeah I guess the people and the government are one and the same.

    13. Re:That's messed up by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      License to procreate would be a step ahead.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    14. Re:That's messed up by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Or move people to where the water is?

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    15. Re:That's messed up by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Actually, a lot of that area was underseas a few million years ago, but what difference does that make here and in the near future?

      It's strongly suspected that a lot of the Mesoamerican civilization collapses (Olmecs, Maya, etc. were related to rainfall changes.

      And a change IS a bad one if it happens to punish where you live.

    16. Re:That's messed up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Energy will get a lot cheaper by 2040. Solar costs are falling 10% a year. So one cent a killowatt hour seem very feasible in 10 to 20 years. I am not sure if that is cheap enough to use desalinization on a wide scale though.

    17. Re:That's messed up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You Americans and your "might makes right." Just remember, they might burn the White House again.

    18. Re:That's messed up by Crashmarik · · Score: 2

      You Americans and your "might makes right." Just remember, they might burn the White House again.

      How much do they want to do the job ?

      I am pretty sure if you put it on kickstarter you can probably hit stretch goals for the capitol and all of K street.

    19. Re:That's messed up by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      You imply that would be a bad thing...

    20. Re:That's messed up by mentil · · Score: 1

      short of a revolution in fusion technology

      Luckily, that's only 20 years away. 2040 is 25 years away. Disaster averted.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    21. Re:That's messed up by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      Once the heavy reliance on fossil fuel is over, they could convert the oil pipelines to water pipelines. As most of the oil producing countries are desert like, the roles could be reversed.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    22. Re:That's messed up by Torvac · · Score: 1

      shortage =====> profit

    23. Re:That's messed up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, damnit, i wish california had some energy beamed right down on them from the skies or something. There sis no easier or better use case for solar power than a process that uses exactly as much as you produce and doesn't have to be constantly running. Too expensive you say? So are you thirsty or not?

    24. Re:That's messed up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a complete idiot.

    25. Re:That's messed up by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      That requires a lot of energy, and there's no way short of a revolution in fusion technology

      Or, y'know, building a bunch of nuclear plants.

      Or, y'know, taking advantage of all that newly available sunlight to build large-scale solar stills.

      Or....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    26. Re:That's messed up by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      That requires a lot of energy, and there's no way short of a revolution in fusion technology that you could use that to produce enough water for irrigation of any significant amount of stable land.

      What about fission?

    27. Re:That's messed up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The burning was carried out by British regulars, not Canadians. Canada was too busy defending its borders from a few hothead militia divisions.

    28. Re:That's messed up by gsslay · · Score: 2

      By 2040 we should have all that crap sorted out. If there are any shortages, it's because some corrupt bastard is mucking up the works.

      One thing we're never likely to suffer any shortage of is corrupt bastards mucking up the works.

    29. Re:That's messed up by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Or, y'know, taking advantage of all that newly available sunlight to build large-scale solar stills.

      Or....

      ...using solar-thermal heat pipes to pump water from the ocean into deserts, there using it to grow algae for biofuel feedstocks. Any excess water is simply spilled over into a salt pan, and replenishes groundwater.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    30. Re:That's messed up by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Plus you've got to figure out something to do with all the salt you take out.

    31. Re:That's messed up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think rainfall experiences gender dysphoria.

    32. Re:That's messed up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nuclear war wiping out many of the corrupt bastards and nuclear winter solving that global warming problem.

    33. Re:That's messed up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any timeframe on fusion is dependent on funding levels.

      It *could* be done in 20 years. We could start construction of DEMO today (many things will remain unchanged) and fill in the missing pieces later once we learn from ITER.

      It could also take 100 years if nobody is interested in funding it.

    34. Re:That's messed up by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

      I'm assuming you're talking about desalination. That requires a lot of energy, and there's no way short of a revolution in fusion technology...

      Maybe he was talking about desal, but what I wanna talk about is giant flying fan blades. Compact fusion generators in the sky, turning giant fan blades. They can blow rainclouds into areas that need rain and away from areas that have too much rain.

      Farfetched? Only the compact fusion generator part. If we have those then the possibilities are endless.

    35. Re:That's messed up by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Apart from the fantasist part of giant floating fans, fusion-powered or otherwise, this is still taking water from one place and moving it to another. What if the people who live in the place with "too much" rain (whatever that may mean) don't think they receive too much rain. What if they don't want to see their water taken, whether by big pipes, big fans or magic transporters?

      Again I repeat that there are serious geopolitical issues to moving water from jurisdictions that may have an apparent plenty to jurisdictions that do not. It's likely to get bad enough when you talk about moving water from one area of a country to another. The water wars of the 1930s over Southern California's seizing of neighboring areas' water would probable be tame when compared to, say, trying to seize the Pacific Northwest's water reserves (whether in clouds, lakes or rivers).

      Now let's imagine that going across international boundaries. What if, say, Canada did not want to take part in any scheme to move vast quantities of water to the US Midwest beyond what systems like the Red River system move? Wouldn't your giant fusion fans essentially be theft of another country's natural resources?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    36. Re:That's messed up by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Those pipes are way too tiny. We need to make mile wide rivers and tunnels.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    37. Re:That's messed up by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Desalinization also tends to produce water at sea level, and in many cases the irrigation is needed at considerably higher altitudes. Moving that much water uphill is also going to take a lot of energy.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    38. Re:That's messed up by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Assuming we keep up the necessary funding, what will we have in 2040? How expensive will it be to build a fusion power plant, and how much power will it produce? I've heard "too cheap to meter" before.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    39. Re:That's messed up by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      There are serious geopolitical ramifications of male changes in rainfall patterns.

      Look, I know it's popular among the social justice crowd to blame all kinds of ills on "the patriarchy", but, you're not really coming off as credible to blame the dominant gender for orchestrating where the rain falls.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    40. Re:That's messed up by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      I'm assuming you're talking about desalination.

      There is that. The bigger issue is transportation. There's plenty of water, just not where we need it at the moment. And we have to restore contaminated water. Time to build some big-ass, nuclear powered tunnel boring machines, and pipe it around like oil, gas, and battery acid. And after bailing out the bankers, I don't want hear anybody crying that we don't have the money. There's plenty of that also, just not where we need it at the moment...

      It's not like this is a new problem. Solutions were developed as far back as the 1960's, and many politicians promoted those plans as early as 1978 and warned of the dangers of doing nothing. But nobody listened. And it kept getting worse, and still nobody wanted to invest in it. There just wasn't enough corporate profit in it, politicians can succeed by ignoring it, and there is simply no stomach in the US electorate for taking on some pain to alleviate future problems.

      So here we are. Carly Fiorina called out Jerry Brown for decades of needing infrastructure and the blockage of any progress by back-to-nature ideologically opposed to dams, canals, even reservoirs in California, so nothing got built and their paying for it now.

      And no, it's not like "Climate change" where huge investments are maybe going to mitigate some warming, how much and whether any of it will work is questionable.

      We have proven, practical solutions for storing and transporting water and, yes, even desalination where it's needed (just check out the projects in Dubai). But nothing happens. Worst drought ever in California, and what does the leadership say? Saving water for the future is "utter ignorance". Really? Seems I remember ancient Egyptians even knew enough to store food in case of famine.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    41. Re:That's messed up by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      We make a deal with Idaho for their potatoes...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    42. Re:That's messed up by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Carly Fiorina called out Jerry Brown for decades of needing infrastructure...

      Heh, so much for setting an example while she had control of HP. The biggest reason people don't want dams, canals, etc, is because they know there is shoddy, corrupt management behind it (is it ironic that these are people they elect? Maybe not). Obviously that is the wrong tactic. They just need to demand competent, transparent oversight. If people take interest the problem is solved. There need not be any undue sacrifice. Just a visit to the therapist...

      We can only 'mitigate' the warming by polluting less. But now since it is happening anyway, we'll have to move everything not meant to be submerged a few miles inland or put it on the roof. That seems to be a simple truth. We should probably get on with it, so we can pace ourselves and do it nice and slow. Also, companies that make truck tire inner tubes might want to ramp up production a bit. Floating down 5th Avenue, listening to Gene Kelly will be the new pastime.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    43. Re:That's messed up by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Well, since Canada as a nation didn't come into being until 1867 no Canadians could have burnt down the White House in the first place. So, yes it was some British troops that the Americans were fighting in 1812. And a bunch of locals that kicked their asses back across the border.

    44. Re:That's messed up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MightyMartian afraid to answer a simple question http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ? Yes. How's that flamebait downmod treating you too? Shouldn't start things with your betters, oh delusional online 20 year fake name using loser. You'll lose every time. You're used to that though you loser. Hence your hiding behind fake names online.

    45. Re:That's messed up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sure that wasnt the french because the Brits were suprised how easily they took the place due to the locals pissing their pants whilst running away.

    46. Re:That's messed up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not like this is a new problem. Solutions were developed as far back as the 1960's, and many politicians promoted those plans [schillerinstitute.org] as early as 1978 and warned of the dangers of doing nothing.

      We have really bad solutions. Go read Cadillac Desert for the details. The history of water development is the USA shows this is one of the most corrupt areas of government. The politicians promoted this because they saw the opportunity to get their hands in a really big till, not because they had any real vision.

      But nobody listened. And it kept getting worse, and still nobody wanted to invest in it. There just wasn't enough corporate profit in it, politicians can succeed by ignoring it, and there is simply no stomach in the US electorate for taking on some pain to alleviate future problems.

      Nobody listened because it was a really dumb idea. The long history of corruption and government misconduct associated with the Bureau of Reclamation and the Army Corp of Engineers (not to mention Congress, plus state and local government) made people not want to fund further ventures.

      Further, folks in Canada and the Northern USA didn't and don't want to see their water being piped away. They don't like the idea of destroying their local ecosystems to help some other idiot live in the desert. Trying to change that would be a huge political battle, one that makes Obama Health Care look like a minor skirmish.

      There's also the issue of designing systems to take water to California, a notoriously earthquake prone region. It's not clear we can do this, let alone do it at a reasonable cost. You have to cross mountain ranges, which means massive tunnels (and how do you repair them when earth movement destroys them?) and/or pumping truly staggering amounts of water over the mountains (requiring an enormous amount of electricity, which almost certainly means many nuclear plants, a huge can of worms in itself).

      Big projects like Hoover Dam were practical back in the Great Depression, when folks were lining up to get jobs and you could pay almost nothing for the work of a skilled laborer. The big project aren't practical any more. This project would dwarf Hoover Dam, which means NAWAPA is insane.

      blockage of any progress by back-to-nature ideologically opposed to dams, canals, even reservoirs in California, so nothing got built and their paying for it now.

      It's "they're", not "their".

      Aside from massive environmental damage (plus damage to industries such as fishing and tourism), there are three fundamental problems we haven't solved with reservoirs and canals:

      1. They silt up. Eventually the lake will go away entirely unless we can find ways to get rid of truly staggering amounts of silt.
      2. They have massive evaporation rates, especially in dry areas.
      3. They acquire high levels of salts and other undesirable materials (a result of runoff and evaporation), which makes the water hard to use for many purposes (such as farming, or habitat).

      In short, they're massively expensive and inefficient solutions that often create as many problems than they solve, and might not last more than a few generations (there's a lot of dispute over the silting rate).

      The USA has over 50k dams. It doesn't need any more. A lot of the ones that were built during the 20th century were a really bad idea at the time, are rapidly silting up, and will never pay back the cost of construction. Many of them have never been able to do the job they were intended to do (or, perhaps, it would be more accurate to say they have never been able to do what the marketing for the projects claimed).

      And no, it's not like "Climate change" where huge investments are maybe going to mitigate some warming, how much and whether any of it will work is questionable.

      Given the history of corruption associated with water projects, how much and whether or not it w

    47. Re:That's messed up by mcswell · · Score: 1

      Why do you think MightyMartian is a fake name? I thought everyone knew they had a climate crisis on Mars centuries (if not millenia) ago, and the subsequent drought is why they dug the canals. The CO2 in their atmosphere was a too-late attempt to increase the temperature before global cooling, er climate change, took over. The canals and the oases that Schiaparelli and Lowell saw in the late 19th century dried up during the early 1900s, giving rise to the dust storms that confronted the Soviet Mars 2 and 3, and American Mariner 9 probes in the early 1970s. MightyMartian is doubtless one of the survivors, sent to warn us about climate change. (The notion that Mars was attacking was due to a bug in their translator.)

  6. strife in israel and palastine? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2

    So...water shortage might cause Israel and Palestine to have issues, then?

    1. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      Israel? You mean that place we were talking about not long ago with all of the new desalination plants shipping water to other countries? That Israel?

    2. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess the World Resource Institute is not aware of Israel's massive investment in desalination, which over the past few years has helped resolve recurring water issues completely and comes with a built in plan for solving future water issues (desalinate more, faster):

      http://www.wateronline.com/doc/desalination-a-major-success-for-israel-0001

    3. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by skaag · · Score: 2

      I was going to say that the report is out of date. Israel have already solved their water shortage problems, forever, and they have so much to spare that they have begun exporting water to neighboring countries. I believe this could work in Israel's favor, as they forge a path to peace with the region.

      --

      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...

    4. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought the current administration there is more interested in pissing on the region, but hope live eternal...

      To put things in perspective - desalinating enough water for the average Israeli to use in a given month (not including agriculture and industry) costs about 12 kWh, or about 5% of current electric power consumption.

    5. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this area they might even be able to do desalination with a really small carbon footprint compared to the scale in which it's being done. Solar energy is coming down fast in price and it could be used to cover a huge chunk of their power requirements.

    6. Re: strife in israel and palastine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's OK. Israel has extremely efficient wastewater treatment systems, so the piss will be welcome.

    7. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile the Dead Sea shrinks every year.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    8. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by skaag · · Score: 1

      That is not just a man-made disaster, it's a crime. The companies doing this should be held accountable, but it's such a Banana Republic, I don't know if that will ever happen.

      --

      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...

    9. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

      I believe this could work in Israel's favor, as they forge a path to peace with the region.

      So when do they stop bulldozing and start forging?

      And yes, I know the Palestinians are launching rockets. The best way to achieve peace isn't tit-for-tat. Ask Ireland.

    10. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The problem with peace at the level of nations is that you need to nation-entities who are interested in peace(ful coexistence). When you find the second such player in the Israeli-Arab conflict, please let Israel know.

    11. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      two, not to.

      Oops.

    12. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      why desalinate more? just pump the excess water in the flood regions to the places that need it. its just the infrastructure that is required.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    13. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      are you implying israel is interested in peace ? that's a load of BS.

    14. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually no: because Israel is almost completely dependent on hydrocarbon for energy production, which is absolutely unsustainable.
      Burning oil or coal to desalinate water is a very short term solution.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Israel

    15. Re: strife in israel and palastine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They haven't solved their half-the-countries-on-the-planet-want-to-turn-our-country-into-a-parking-lot problem. But at least they'll have water! :-)

    16. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by Sun · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's horrible, but it has nothing to do with the water shortage.

      Shachar

    17. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Well - it has to do with water shortage because the water from the Jordan River is used for irrigation.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    18. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's difficult to make peace with a bunch of inbreds who exploit the most retarded as suicide bombers.

    19. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by JazzLad · · Score: 1

      Maybe he meant the Arabs?

      --
      "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
    20. Re:strife in israel and palastine? by caseih · · Score: 1

      Israel and Palestine have been having strife over water for decades. Israel diverts nearly 100% of the Jordan river now, mostly for its own agricultural purposes. To add insult to injury this water is piped right through the west bank to Israeli farms and communities in the south. Palestinian farms and communities get less and less of this water as time goes on. And as the aquifers that feed the Jordan river fluctuate, guess who gets the short end of the stick? Certainly not Israelis. Water is certainly used as a passive weapon, that's for sure.

  7. Re:Great by Falconhell · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Except, of course that's a flat out lie, there was a magazine article, nothing else. The AGW deniers have been so thoroughly discredited they are reduced to making stuff up.

  8. Preempt now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Increase middle-east migration to Europe.

    1. Re:Preempt now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since you obviously don't live in Europe and they are not moving into YOUR neighbourhood as they are mine, please kindly STFU.

  9. Re:Great by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Informative

    Christ will this lying meme ever fucking die?

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  10. Spain is Europes garden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Spain is covered in greenhouses, if they run out of water, Europe runs out of food, so you can pretty much expect desalination plants to be built in large scale.

    I know they already are getting into solar in a big way.

  11. Obviously... by tlambert · · Score: 2

    Obviously, it will be the ones with inadequate desalination plants.

    1. Re:Obviously... by houghi · · Score: 1

      California is safe then with the salted almonds they grow.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  12. Australia growing faster than Banglades in % by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Australia's population is growing faster than Bangladesh's in % (some 1.89%/yr vs ~1.2%/yr:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-29/kohler-infrastructure-emergency/5224586

    Most of the growth is through immigration of people that are well off from Europe and the US.

    For this reason major Australian cities needed to build expensive water desalination plants. Water costs raised 20%/yr for many years to
    pay for it.
    Electricity network had to be upgraded for the same reason and electricity went up 20%/yr for many years because of that.
    Of course the populace didn't even notice until the carbon tax was introduced that caused a much smaller increase, then all hell
    broke loose.
    Because of the crazy population growth, house prices have passed from 3-4x average wage ~20 yrs ago to ~7x and, recently, ~11x.
    Again , people are angry about this but have no clue of the reason : they blame investors, particularly Chinese, but never even
    grasp the reason why investors would be so keen in buying houses. It's almost hilarious how they fight over the real reason while
    missing the obvious. Of course, if one raises the issue of population, you are automatically branded a xenophobe and a racist.
    The issue is so off the RADAR that a party dedicated to stable population only got 0.2% at the last election.

    Ah, you should see what this population growth is doing to traffic and infrastructure.

    Anyway, more people => less for everyone and water is just a small corollary to this

    1. Re:Australia growing faster than Banglades in % by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Australia's population is growing faster than Bangladesh's ... Most of the growth is through immigration of people that are well off from Europe and the US.

      You mean it's not from technical people from India and Bangladesh?

    2. Re:Australia growing faster than Banglades in % by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If these people are "well-off" doesn't this mean that Australia's tax base has also increased in size?

  13. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'd think by then, countries will have invested in desalinization plants to make ocean water drinkable.

  14. I'm from Mongolia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm from Mongolia, you insensitive clod.

    1. Re:I'm from Mongolia by tlambert · · Score: 2

      Desalination plants are also used for treatment of alkali water.

      "A new report from the Asian Development Bank sent a warning signal to Mongolia that, despite its wealth of natural resources and pristine image, the country faces a severe water scarcity and quality crisis"

      So if you can't fix the quantity, fix the quality.

  15. More Fearmongering by LordLucless · · Score: 3, Informative

    Uh-huh. Here in Australia, we had one of these guys screeching about the perpetual drought Australia was going to be enduring. The government poured billions into building the biggest desalination plant in the country. Then the drought ended, the dams filled, and the desal plant is idling along, producing nothing, but costing half a million a day.

    --
    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    1. Re:More Fearmongering by barc0001 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Weather *is* cyclical you know, and with climate change some places are going to be hit with even more aggressive patterns.

      Or there could be other problems brewing. I'm not sure what the water table usage in Australia is, have you looked into it? It's one of those things that can be really bad when the water runs out but nobody thinks about because it's out of sight, out of mind. Just look at California - they've been drawing way more out of the aquifers than can possibly be replenished for decades and it's causing the actual ground to sink. One day not too far off those aquifers will be dry and then their entire agricultural sector will be screwed.

    2. Re:More Fearmongering by LordLucless · · Score: 3, Informative

      Some rural areas might rely on aquifers, but the vast majority of Australia relies on man-made dams. I *know* weather is cyclical - as does everyone who's lived in Australia for more than a decade. Poems have been written about the juxtaposition of our "droughts and flooding rains". That's why I get cynical when people start screaming that the sky is falling, because we're in a part of the cycle they're not enjoying.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    3. Re:More Fearmongering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ah, yes... darned those people trying to save fellow Australians from the 10 year drought with water rations and water reserves at less than 30% with no sign of the drought ending. You do realize if it had been a 15 year drought instead of a 10 year drought, you'd be praising that facility as a godsend, right?

      The cost per day is even higher than you state, but to be fair -- the payments are mostly on the construction of the facility -- not actually the cost of maintaining the idle facility. It'll take nearly 30 years to pay it off, but after that, hey... you have a great facility should you need it... and you probably will.

      With reservoirs at 80%, you've less than 1 1/2 years of water stored (assuming no rainfall at all). You're set for the next 10 year drought or longer, but go ahead and whine about the cost while you're not using it so I can tell you I told you so when you're living off of the water it makes during an upcoming 20 year drought.

      Geez, you're like the guy that complains about the cost of buying a generator he never uses -- 'til a hurricane knocks out the power for a week or two.

      http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    4. Re:More Fearmongering by pipingguy · · Score: 0

      Yes, expect the doomerism and FUD to carry on at a steady pace right up until the conference for the Parisites in December.

    5. Re:More Fearmongering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, doesn't it make sense to have something in place for a location that DOES experience droughts and DOES have the potential for it in the future?

      Trying to build these things AFTER the fact is most likely too late and I think one would be thankful it is in place when the inevitable DOES happen again.

    6. Re:More Fearmongering by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Sure. That's why we built all those dams in the first place - you store up excess capacity in the good times, and have it available in the bad times. Very simple, very low-tech, and much cheaper than a complex desal plant. The reason we built desal plants instead was that the powers that be had been convinced that rainfall was going away, and those plants don't rely on rainfall.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    7. Re:More Fearmongering by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      If it's idle, what is the half a million per day being spent on?

    8. Re:More Fearmongering by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      The cost per day is even higher than you state, but to be fair -- the payments are mostly on the construction of the facility -- not actually the cost of maintaining the idle facility. It'll take nearly 30 years to pay it off, but after that, hey... you have a great facility should you need it... and you probably will.

      Or they could have built another dam, just like we have historically done to cope with droughts and population increases. They cost a fraction of the amount of a desal plant, both in construction and in maintenance, and can have enormous capacities.

      Desal plants weren't built to deal with recurring droughts - we have them already, and we're already pretty good at storing and rationing water to deal with them. They were built because people were claiming that weather patterns were changing, and we would no longer be able to rely on rainfall to fill dams - and they pointed to the current drought as evidence.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
  16. Wrong problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The problem is not water shortage, it's human surplus.

  17. Israel will probably be OK by uri.shtand · · Score: 1

    Israel will probably be OK. In the recent years, It invested heavily in reclaimed water and desalination facilities. It can already provide more then 50% of it's water from desalination and dirty water processing. The countries around Israel though, are not in such a great shape. Jordan buys water from Israel today, and would probably need to buy more in the future. Saudi Arabia might have some issues as well. Syria and Iraq are losing their infrastructures fast. It doesn't help that you have water on the other side of the country, if you don't have the infrastructure to move it... or the political stability to do that.

    1. Re:Israel will probably be OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What happened with the plan to desalinize water from the red sea, using the energy from the height difference between red and dead seas to power it, and replenishing the dead sea at the same time? Great project, quite a large investment but a significant flow of water almost for free afterwards. Jordan is the only fairly stable arab country in the area, and investments are reasonably safe.

    2. Re:Israel will probably be OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck Israel!

  18. Africa, corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The most blatant corruption here are the so-called "free" trade agreements rammed down the throats of African nations (EU, I'm looking at you). They are killing local industries (just one example: they are swamped by cheap, disgusting leftovers from EU chicken industry because the "developed" nation's citizens can only stand breast and drumstick).

    Water? The same: The likes of Nestlé and Veolia steal the water to re-sell it to the locals.

    Now that's not to say that the local chiefs aren't corrupt -- but pointing at them from our "first world" couch totally misses the point.

    Now excuse me, I'm going to barf.

    1. Re:Africa, corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have breast (occassionaly drumstick, but only cut the meat off the bone) because I don't eat enough chicken to require a full one and the breast is already eat-ready (after cooking) and a full chicken has a lot of bones to separate from the meat first.

      If I were to require enough chicken, I could save money per pound of food produced by taking the whole chicken. And I could boil the bones for stock instead of buying it. But most of a chicken would go to waste after spoiling.

      So I can get breast meat and waste none of it or an entire chicken and waste much of it. At the least much of the non-breast meat gets mechanically recovered and put into chicken nuggets or chicken burgers.

      You are right that the African *farmers* are screwed badly by the EU CAP, but their industry and resources are more fucked by the USA and their governmental stability invaded by most of the first world (EU, USA, Russia, mainly). A strong Africa is not so easy to pillage or make beholden to you and a de-facto satellite state.

    2. Re:Africa, corruption by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Call this a wild and crazy supposition but I bet if you walked into any open market or supermarket in continent of Africa that you would find chicken for sale, either whole or in part. Live, slaughtered and refrigerated according to where you were looking. Maybe you think that the EU steals all the chicken breasts and Africa just gets buckets of scrag ends with flies crawling all over them.

    3. Re:Africa, corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I bet if you walked into any open market or supermarket in continent of Africa that you would find chicken for sale, either whole or in part. Live, slaughtered and refrigerated according to where you were looking.

      And I bet that you never actually saw a market in Africa. The point is not that you cannot get chicken (alive, it will get chopped with a machete). The point is that a chicken farmer will earn so few money that he cannot afford to eat chicken. The point is that flower farmers are not allowed to use water because the flowers are more important. And despite some billions of Euros get spent on those flowers, the flower farmers will stay poor forever. The point is that when you go to a region where cinnamon is produced you will just find lowest quality cinnamon. And in the supermarket near you, you find only highest quality cinnamon.

      Your post just shows that you have no clue at all and I don't really see what you want to say.

    4. Re:Africa, corruption by Nrrqshrr · · Score: 1

      Hey, still beats growing your chicken in the US, sending it all the way to China for "Processing", then getting whatever it is that you will be eating back.

    5. Re:Africa, corruption by DrXym · · Score: 1
      Pure twaddle. Type in "chicken farm" and an African country of your choice. What comes back are links to large industries that specialise in such a thing. Why? Because there is a large demand for domestic and export meat in Africa as there is elsewhere. As there is for staples and other fruit and veg grown on farms.

      In fact it's not hard to reports of people in some African countries complaining about cheap imports of chicken coming in from Brazil. Maybe you should have a good old wail about the poor set upon Brazilian chicken farmer and the greedy Africans who are exploiting him.

    6. Re:Africa, corruption by DrXym · · Score: 1
      Fresh meat in EU countries say the farm of origin and even most fruit and veg. So I trust that stuff. There's a short supply chain that is traceable.

      It's the wholesale supply chain which is always the one which scares me. I remember watching a UK documentary where some health inspectors raided a premises packing "halal" chicken where there was no refrigeration and there was rotting meat sitting by the "fresh" stuff, all of which had already passed from another wholesaler in Denmark and might have passed through others before that. Scary stuff and presumably it would have ended up being consumed by somebody.

    7. Re:Africa, corruption by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      You are right that the African *farmers* are screwed badly by the EU CAP, but their industry and resources are more fucked by the USA and their governmental stability invaded by most of the first world (EU, USA, Russia, mainly). A strong Africa is not so easy to pillage or make beholden to you and a de-facto satellite state.

      Talked to anyone from an African country lately? Obviously not. They aren't complaining about western countries these days (or Russia either). Ask them about the Chinese. Sure there are some niches of western companies trying to compete, but mostly they can't. It's loaded with Chinese companies. And they don't bother trying to hire locals.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    8. Re:Africa, corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and which nation is soo hot for free trade agreement it rams its legislation down the whole worlds throats thats right USA#1 5% of the worlds poulation using avast amount of the worlds resources.

  19. The map surprises me by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    Water stress in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland? You've got to be kidding! Where I live if you put a water butt outside with an open top it will fill up over winter. That's not with a pipe coming from the roof or anything like that, its just with the rain going directly through the hole in the top.

    1. Re:The map surprises me by Malc · · Score: 1

      The map doesn't break down countries, and they're all part of the UK. And there are areas of the UK that often have drought conditions, although no evidence of that exists this summer!

    2. Re:The map surprises me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The UK as a whole is considered to be a country that has an inadequate water supply already. Even some parts of Wales and Scotland are at risk, and Northern Ireland has less-good water management. Rainwater is generally talked about as a solution (sorry... pun not intended.)

      Sure, if they were independent states, Wales and Scotland would have fewer issues. But they aren't independent states and even if they were politically independent they aren't geopolitically independent.

    3. Re:The map surprises me by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      i think "drought" is a bit over the top for the UK if you compare it to real droughts around the world. a few dryer periods sounds more like it

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    4. Re:The map surprises me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The big thing here is this map is pretty poor . Its by country, not by watershed. If done by watershed, i think large parts of the UK will be deep red.
      Consider a small river like the Thames, its the water supply for a city like London 7/8 million people. Half the population of the UK lives south of Milton Keynes. most of that in that southern and south east corner. We already pull water from underground reservoirs because rivers are full of farm/field run-off.
      The last 10 years have seen wettish summers, this summer was looking to be dry till the rains came in july. the south east was dry then.
      Doo some googling, and you'll find stories of rivers running dry every summer in the last dry period. A lot of chalk bed rivers just go dry, the wildlife goes. if remember right, last droughts (96-2004), Kennet and medway/thames tributes had problems
      Also do a rainfall comparison between East Anglia and isreal.. we did at school in the 80's. Suprising how little rain falls in the east of UK.

    5. Re: The map surprises me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What we here forget in the UK is whilst north and south ends seem a long way apart, there's supply lines longer for gas etc. We have plenty of water that may be inconveniently distributed but I can drive a truck of water from one end to the other in a day or so. We're tiny but we nake a lot of noise eh

    6. Re:The map surprises me by cellocgw · · Score: 1

      i think "drought" is a bit over the top for the UK if you compare it to real droughts around the world. a few dryer periods sounds more like it

      OTOH, there are some oceanographers who are watching the Gulfstream currents carefully. Should that flow ever relocate (the current candidate cause IIRC would be excess flow from melting Arctic ice), the Emerald Isle will go brown.

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    7. Re:The map surprises me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck the south east - thats what you get when you repeatedly suck all rhe resources out of the rest of the country just to pander to that region. You will be screaming for a ntional water grid soon at the rest of us tax payers expense!

  20. Re:Great by Barsteward · · Score: 1

    not while there are ignorant fools alive

    --
    "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
  21. America is fucked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But me and my family will be fine. That's all that matters to me.

  22. eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "... as they forge a path to peace ..."

    you must be talking about some other Israel I've never heard about, because the Israeli government hasn't genuinely sought "peace" from the day it was bandied about in the Balfour Declaration - the project was long ago high-jacked by Zionist racists.
    The Golan Heights were "secured" by Israel specifically because of the water rights.
    Israel have since built the desalination plants you speak of, but before that, they "resolved their water shortage problems" by simply taking it from others ...
    Since then, we're all living on borrowed time ...

    1. Re: eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I guess the 1978 peace accords with Egypt and the later peace agreement with Jordan are myths? Or you're an idiot. I'm guessing the latter.

  23. And technology won't solve this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And technology won't solve this? I mean we have an ocean full of water and it's becoming cheaper and cheaper every day to turn it into drinking water, i think this is just a lot of doom calling (and i don't believe the statistic about the Netherlands, it's like the one in Al Gore's movie which proved to be wrong where the Netherlands will be drowned by 2040, for which we have built the delta works)

    I think water won't even be a problem anymore in 20 years, but this is just to manipulate the politics to do something which will result in very little other than wasting money... (which they're totally kick-ass at thanks to these kind of reports)

  24. We have the technology by areusche · · Score: 1

    For water desalination using nuclear means. Sure it won't support industry, but it will support local drinking water supplies. One problem at a time. Overall I don't really care and such a calamity will spur nuclear research that should have been done years ago.

  25. Desalination is on the rise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Israel is on track to have its entire water consumption come from desalination in the next few years. They're already over half, and re-use over 90% of their wastewater. Water is not going to be a pressing issue at all.

  26. Israel on the list? by hydrodog · · Score: 2

    Israel currently or will shortly desalinate 100% of its water needs and is actually refilling its aquifers. So I'm not sure what the basis of the claim is. However, the desalination is using natural gas, not solar, so it is not long-term sustainable. Not all the damage has been undone yet. The dead sea has been falling by 1 meter per year for the last 30+ years because all the water coming into it was used for irrigation by Israel and Jordan. While I believe they have arrested or perhaps stopped the drop, they have not yet refilled it. There has been an interesting proposal to develop hydroelectric power with a canal from the meditteranean, and an interesting twist proposed by professor Dan Zaslavsky to generate all power needed by Israel AND Palestine with a single downdraft tower. Here is an article on this interesting concept in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Zaslavsky's claim was that such a tower would reduce the amount of water going into the dead sea by 90% due to evaporation, therefore they could increase the flow into the dead sea by a factor of 10, generating 20GWatts of power. The concept has never been tested at scale so no one knows if it would work.

  27. desalination by hydrodog · · Score: 1

    Obviously all the middle east is not going to cool down any time soon, and needs a desalination solution, or the current wave of immigration will look like a trickle. Ignoring for the moment the population boom which will destroy everything if they don't control it, the technical solution is nuclear power. A nuclear plant does not contribute to global warming, and the waste heat, applied to water, desalinates a lot of water. It's a productive use of all the energy from the plant instead of just 45%. Unfortunately, no one wants Arab countries to have nuclear plants given the current political environment. The risk of terrorism, or proliferation is huge. I think the article neglects Iran, which should be higher on the list. They are using 90+% of their surface water and are imminently in danger of running out. The minister in charge was predicting that 70% of the country could have to evacuate in just a few years. http://www.danielpipes.org/158...

    1. Re:desalination by Punko · · Score: 1

      The generation of energy does contribute to global warming. What you are implying is that as the generation of power doesn't use fossil fuels, the waste products do not contribute to the greenhouse effect. However, 100's of megawatts of electricity will 100% turn into 100's of megawatts of heat. unlike solar and wind energy, nuclear energy is a net generator of heat. Solar and wind are heat energy neutral, as the energy is pulled from the environment, used as electricity, and then released as heat where the sun's energy was going anyway. The energy from the nuclear material never originated in solar energy smacking into the earth.

      --
      If only we could fall into a woman's arms without falling into her hands
    2. Re:desalination by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are technically correct, but practically wrong. hundreds of megawatts of heat sounds like a lot, but it's nothing. Greenhouse gasses are a problem because they trap a small percentage more heat, and the total energy from the sun is vast. Direct heat from the reactions is less than .01% of greenhouse, if that. Furthermore, any local heat bloom is going to radiate into space at an increased rate.

      Yes, every anthropogenic source of heat adds up, but nuclear power compared to natural gas is a gigantic drop. Needless to say, solar would be better, and I'm sure in the future that solar desalination can be made incredibly efficient.

    3. Re:desalination by Punko · · Score: 1

      I am well aware of the magnitude difference between the heat load from the total solar flux to the planet and the electrical output of a nuclear power plant. However, that still doesn't change the fact that the statement "A nuclear plant does not contribute to global warming" is incorrect.

      --
      If only we could fall into a woman's arms without falling into her hands
    4. Re:desalination by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Similarly, the statement "my farts do not contribute to global warming" is incorrect. However, the amount of global warming nuclear power plants do is negligible.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  28. Re:'Climatedot' again... are you sick of this yet? by Punko · · Score: 1

    With all due respect, this article indicated two factors leading to national water stress, the first is the currently recognized changes in rainfall patterns. The second is the political/population aspect to those nations. In many cases, it is not a total lack of water resources that will affect the population, but its distribution within the country and the lack of infrastructure or political will/means to match the distribution of water to the distribution of usage.

    While many might focus on the "man-made" side of the issue regarding the changes in water distribution, the far far greater calamity is the 100% man-made factors that make up the political problems.

    The US has unmatched monetary resources to easily manage the water distribution changes caused by changes to the climate, regardless of their cause. However, the political environment makes usage of those monetary resources to change the water usage distribution to match the future water resource distribution impossible. And sadly, there is next to zero chance of any change in the collective political will to alter US use of water to match future water distribution.

    --
    If only we could fall into a woman's arms without falling into her hands
  29. bad choices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lets build a city around a place that has always had poor water supply. Then lets make artificial dams or other water holding areas. Let the people do what every they want with the water and years later we'll think of what might happen.
    You chose to live there, learn to use the water wisely or move.

  30. You mean when Israel took back annexed land? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Golan Heights were "secured" by Israel specifically because of the water rights.

    And here I thought it was annexed after Israel captured it in that same 6-day war back in the 60's.
    When Egypt kicked UN forces out of Sinai and deliberately went to block Tiran Straits DESPITE being warned about that being seen as a cause for war?
    Then Egypt started amassing forces on the Israeli border.

    Then Egypt got its ass handed to it, Israel taking the entire Sinai Peninsula, so Egypt dragged Jordan and Syria into the war.
    So then THEY TOO got their asses handed to them, with Israel TAKING BACK the area which Jordan had annexed two decades prior.

    You know, back in 1948 when they ganged up with their buddies from Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and "volunteers" (or INSURGENTS as we call them today) from Pakistan, Arab Liberation Army, Muslim Brotherhood etc. etc. to "drive Jews into the sea" in a "war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades" as it was referred to by Arab League's Secretary-General Azzam Pasha.

    Seems to me like Israel took ALL that ground specifically because they were invaded by those countries, with intent of extermination.
    I.e. In order to have a better strategic position for defense from future invasions.
    Which they didn't have to wait for too long.

    But it is nice to see that even you can't run from the facts that THAT was THEN and that NOW they have resolved their water shortages.

    1. Re: You mean when Israel took back annexed land? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention the Syrians used the Golan to bomb the Israeli lowlands for 20 years before the Israelis took it from them. Now they don't.

  31. Your mom is called Israel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's a funny name for a cow.

  32. assuming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is assuming the temp is going up at the time, or the temp is going down. No one can predict when the heat cycle will end and we start the cooling cycle.

  33. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  34. nonsense by rubycodez · · Score: 0

    The amount of water on the planet won't change, and all those nations but Palestine have the money and engineering ability to get water. If the people of Palestine ever started using their brains en mass and stopped crippling their own chances at success they do amazing things too. No shortage of water for desalinization next to Palestine. Whole article is bullshit alarmist nonsense.

  35. Re:A "condom" fixes all serious problems by rubycodez · · Score: 2

    Note the birth rate of middle class or wealthy people is much below the 2.1 children per couple it takes to have "break even" population. The poor and ignorant are the problem

  36. Re:A "condom" fixes all serious problems by fleabay · · Score: 1

    The Duggars are not poor.

  37. This isn't a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Earth has been continually losing water since it was formed (aside from the off-chance that asteroids carried more water here - Great Lakes perhaps?).

    Solar winds will continue to carry water vapors away from this planet. Changes in solar cycles will affect weather patterns on Earth, further exacerbating the problem.

    Not to mention, as populations of people and animals increase, being composed of mostly water, this will also decrease environmental water levels.

    Places like Egypt used to see rainfall much greater in the past than they do now - they may have even been semi-tropic.

    This isn't a new change, but people are apparently becoming more aware of it. On a grand scale, unfortunately, there is little that can be done. On a micro scale, we can conserve and recycle as best we can.

    Hearing reports such as these do make me glad I live near the Great Lakes, though.

  38. its a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They have Lancashire Uk as medium to high water shortage- well we aint London we only have 2 weather patterns here - grey over cast and grey over cast rainning.

  39. Re:A "condom" fixes all serious problems by rubycodez · · Score: 1

    do you also have opinion about where on scale of "ignorant 1 - 10" they might fall? I'd say about 12 myself

  40. My God, look: It talks - It really talks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do us a favor MightyMartian: Don't try to think you no mind. It's no strong suit for losers like you hiding behind fake online names and are giant zeros in life.

    1. Re:My God, look: It talks - It really talks by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Christ, now you're stalking me?

      Well, I guess I should feel lucky that I'm not a journalist or a journalist's camerman.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  41. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why can't a no mind loser zero in life hiding behind fake online names like you MightyMartian die instead? Do the world a favor, die.

  42. STFU little online loser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dont try 'play smart'. You're an undereducated moron hiding behind fake names online as you're a loser in life.

    1. Re:STFU little online loser by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      You know, you idiot, that you're posting as an AC.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:STFU little online loser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He has a valid point. You have an online delusional fantasy as "mightymartian" like losers do.

    3. Re:STFU little online loser by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Posting ac's better than living a 20 yr online delusion as MightyMartian. You're a bigger coward by far.

  43. Answer a question "MightyLoser" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Question: What's it like hiding behind fake names in your 20 yr. online done zero fantasy as you're a loser in life?

  44. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Agreed. The last time Jane Q. Public regurgitated this lie, I linked papers showing that mainstream science predicted anthropogenic CO2-driven warming, even in the 1970s.

  45. By 2040, it will be solved by rhyous · · Score: 1

    By 2040, it will be solved.

    1. California is building multiple desalinization plants to be ready by 2016. How many will the world have by 2040?
    2. Recycling water is improving.
    3. What if we put a pipe between the ocean and Death Valley. It is hot. The water would evaporate fast and a previous desert could become a giant inland see.
    4. Pump water from ocean to Great Salt Lake in North America and Dead Sea. Keep them full and they will provide natural desalination by evaporation and rain.
    5. Evaporation aids. Technology to cause more evaporation and thus more rain.

  46. Re:Great by Falconhell · · Score: 1

    Man, give the stalking of Jane Q a break, it makes you look like a psycho, and instantly loses any respect for your words.

  47. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If debunking Jane's public statements is "stalking" then what is Jane's ~7 year campaign of harassing scientists using illegally obtained private emails? And given that the fate of civilization is at stake, it's worth noting that every minute Jane spends responding to my debunkings is another minute he can't spend telling another scientist to commit suicide.

    And by the way, Jane's only a foot soldier. I'm also currently debunking Rep. Rohrabacher's accusations of fraud on Twitter- he's one of the most powerful Congressman in the USA and is on the House "Science" committee. Ironically, Jane/Lonny has been running interference for him on Twitter. So when I debunk Rohrabacher's claims in a little bit, I'll address Jane's at the same time. What Jane and Rohrabacher are doing is just wrong, and I'm going to keep opposing it even if some think that makes me look like a psycho and causes them to instantly lose any respect for my words.

  48. Re:Great by Falconhell · · Score: 1

    The point is it's not just them, your stalking means in I rarely read you posts thru, it too over the top man.

  49. Re:Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You keep using this word "stalking" to describe the same kind of debunking that The Daily Show regularly does: showing that someone's public statements are internally inconsistent and/or inconsistent with reality.

    Oh, and next time you think you see a splinter of "over the top" in someone else's comments, remember the log made up of the time you told someone "kill yourself" and all the times you've hurled insults like "denialist half wit" "dumnfuck" (sic) "idiots" "morons" without brains.