Slashdot Mirror
Girls-Only Computer Camps Formed At Behest of Top Google, Facebook Execs
theodp writes: Reporting on Google exec Susan Wojcicki's appearance at DreamForce, Inc.'s Tess Townsend writes: "The YouTube CEO said her daughter had stated point-blank that she did not like computers, so Wojcicki enrolled her in a computer camp. The camp made her daughter dislike tech even more. Wojcicki reported her daughter came back saying, 'Everyone in the class was a boy and nobody was like me and now I hate computers even more.' So, mom called the camp and spoke to the CEO, asking that the camp be made more welcoming to girls" (video). Fortune reported last July that it was the urging of Wojcicki and Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg that prompted iD Tech Camps — which Wojcicki's and Sandberg's kids had attended — to spin off a girls-only chain of tech camps called Alexa Cafe, which was trialed in the Bay Area in 2014 and expanded to nine locations in 2015. Earlier this month, Fortune noted that Wojcicki's daughter attended the $949-a-week Alexa Cafe summer camp at Palo Alto High, which was coincidentally hosted in the multi-million dollar Media Center (video) that was built thanks to the efforts of Wojcicki's mother Esther (a long-time Paly journalism teacher) and partially furnished and equipped by sister Anne (23andMe CEO) and ex-brother-in-law Sergey Brin's charitable foundation.
Suddenly this push for segregation makes sense - "Fools and their money..."
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Somehow, I'm betting she still doesn't like computers.
I think Hedy would approve.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Not convinced segregation is the answer here -- if girls aren't "getting it" then a lot of the boys won't be "getting it" either...
Besides, my junior high school computer science class 25 years ago was one-third girls and everybody learned Pascal just fine =P
We're reverting back to the the 1800's again, this is barbaric. Would it be acceptable if a pair of white parents said that a bakery wasn't unwelcoming towards whites and therefore proceeded to buile one with a big "Whites Only" sign on the front? No, it wouldn't be permissible in today's soxiety, yet this atrocity is. Or is it perhaps okay because the two camps are "seperate but equal"?
"Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Did Sergey Brin go to computer camp?
How about Carly Fiorina or Sheryl Sanberg?
What is "computer camp" all about anyways? dumping your kid somewhere so you can have some time to yourself?
Maybe Wojcicki should ask her daughter which "camp" she wants to go to if any!?
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
Some women (like Sandberg, who I'm fairly certain wasn't raised in girls-only environments) push for this sort of thing, neglecting a vital truth of the matter: the workplace requires just as much in the way of soft skills as it does hard ones.
If it's true that boys are a "distraction", or at least "different enough" to be a problem* then girls-only camps serve only to kick the can down the road: girls don't know how to deal with boys. So what's to happen when they go into environments with boys? They get disappointed and leave.
*which, if the environments are so hostile to women, why are we setting girls up for failure by asking them not to worry about it instead of training them from a young age to deal with it and make it more natural? Or for that matter, teach boys that it's natural for girls to be in this environment either?
(Yes, I know as well as any of you that these "progressive" measures are not about equal rights for anyone but about flooding the marketplace of job applicants and driving down wages. But Slashdot seems to not be getting that feel-good crusades like this one aren't rooted in practical concerns.)
Some people don't believe in fairies. I don't believe in The Patriarchy.
Wow! The only reason this is happening is because we've managed to fuck things up badly enough over the last two decades that we effectively have boys only computer camps currently.
Do you go full "Dan's Brown's Body" for girls schools as well or do you reserve such an extreme reaction for computer camps?
This is the equivalent of fathers that insist that their boys play a sport. Sometimes the kid really isn't interested in computers.
Just noticed your post after mine. Yeah I agree. I've seen parents sign up their kids for baseball or whatever and the kid is stuck doing something they hate 3 days a week. Parents need to learn: just because I like something doesn't mean my kid "should" like it too whether it is food, sports, jobs, or God.
I, along with anyone from the 21st century, should have a strong distaste for anything like this where if you swap out the groups it becomes incredibly distasteful. It's like having women only gyms but look what happens when you try to have a men only gym.
What they should do instead is accept anyone but make it more comfortable for everyone. What about the Hispanic and black males that are even more under represented than women in CS? Why is it ok to throw them under the bus based solely on thier genitals and the perception some women dont want to associate with them (as was stated in the article)?
I can only hope at some point people realize two things - That there really are gender differences and women in general may not be interested as much in computer science as men until the social aspect changes and that's perfectly OK - That the time to expose people to computers and technology starts as soon as they can start to talk/think. If you wait until people are already in grade school or higher the natural interests they may develop can be more easily displaced by other interests influenced by societal pressures.
i hate computers, i hate boys, and i hate camp.
Obviously, that is the right approach.
Paly High is a public school. To have girls-only classes like this is a horrible act of discrimination. The public school system should be ashamed of its bigotry.
"My did didn't like computers so I sent her to computer camp and she still doesn't like computers. Something is wrong with the camp."
Seriously??? My God. Somebody with that kind of mentality is a CEO?
MAYBE YOUR KID JUST DOESN'T LIKE COMPUTERS!!!
If your kid doesn't like broccoli, are you going to send her to broccoli camp? And if she comes back from camp still not liking broccoli, will it clearly be the fault of the camp?
Do kids even use computers these days? I thought they did everything on their phones.
I've got 3 boys and 2 girls and they all play and study together all day, every day, happily and productively including on their computers. My kids know mathematics is the foundation of all the cool technology they see being developed in the world and programming is how maths is applied in engineering. It is not hard, you just point out to them that if they don't own the robots the robots are going to end up owning them. Kids understand that very easily then accept what it will take to be the master rather than the pet.
The YouTube CEO said her daughter had stated point-blank that she did not like computers, so Wojcicki enrolled her in a computer camp.
I wonder if she even considered the possibility that her kid just really, genuinely, doesn't like computers and never will.
Maybe she should try asking the kid what she does like. Hopefully she likes cars and engineering, then mom can relax and tell herself she's raised her gender-non-comfortist child well. But I pity that kid if she actually does want to go into nursing or fashion, because mom is not going to like that.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
On a side note: Was the only guy in my class at massage therapy school and got dirty looks / took some shit from a few feminazi types who thought I was only there to "put my hands all over women"
Cool story bro, but what we're all dying to know is.. did you get some?
...as long as they do exactly what they say.
She didn't like the camp because the campers "weren't like me"? I guess mom taught her to discriminate against boys.
Wojcicki made her career in marketing, after studying history and literature. She evidently didn't like computers either. But now she sends her little girl to computer camp?
Seems to me the girl wants to step into her mother's footsteps: she doesn't like computers, but she has already figured out which buttons to push to get her mother to jump.
There are situations where segregation makes sense, or should at least be tolerated. For example, there is a long tradition of girls-only schools and boys-only schools. A girls-only camp? Why not. You are removing a host of complex inter-gender issues from the picture, possibly allowing the students to concentrate more on what the camp is supposed to really be about.
However, if you accept this, there are two important principles that must be followed:
- This is something each person should be able to decide for themselves. Do I want to send my daughter to a computer camp for girls, or to a mixed computer camp? Do I want a golf club with men and women, or do I want a golf club only for my gender? The freedom to make this decision is what "freedom of association" is all about.
- If you allow this for one group, you must allow it for all groups. It's no good organizing a girls' camp, but forbidding a boys' camp. It's no good allowing women-only gyms, but forbidding men-only gyms. Either you believe in freedom of association, or you don't.
Of course, if you allow freedom of association based on gender, it follows pretty quickly that you can allow it based on other criteria: sexual identity, hair color, race, religion, whatever. And that will send the SJWs into orbit.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
It's different because there is plenty of opportunity for boys to go to computer camp. Literally every other computer camp is a "boys computer camp" because they dominate the enrollment.
And I'm a software engineer!
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Different people have different likes and dislikes and we as a society need to accept that. Trying to force kids to like something isn't going to work. Nobody ever had to convince me to like computers, I was fascinated with them from a young age. Likewise nobody had to drive my sister away from computers, she never had any interest in them. It wasn't my parents pushing what we should do, they were extremely good about letting us choose our own path. My mom in particular was big on that since her mother had not let her choose her own career (she was told a teacher or nurse, nothing else). We are just different people, very different despite coming from the same family, yet both very happy in the choices we've made in life.
Computer camps, or any kind of camps, are great for kids that are interested in them. However trying to set something up to force kids to like what you like is doomed to fail. If anything, it'll drive them away. Something can quickly change from "fun" to "work" when you are being forced to do it, rather than allowed to do it, particularly as a child.
There'd be calls of sexism, racism, every kind of -ism imaginable. People would be protesting at Google headquarters.
You *listen* to your children, help them explore what they like and dislike. You understand that your children won't like everything, and possibly not even what you like...but I guess there's the rub. Mommy's and Daddy's egos can't accept their children not being little fucking clones of themselves, so they set out to "fix" that.
Ironically, my daughter does like to code and is a fan of STEM subjects in general. She also likes fashion ( although, perhaps notably, only in how it applies to others as she'll often leave the house in whatever is clean-"ish", sans brushing her hair ) and babysitting, neither of which holds any interest to me. But you know what I do? I make sure to encourage her interests, wherever they take her. This isn't some heroic feat. I'm not some exemplar example of parenting. I'm just some guy who has her interests at heart.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Ooh, a "girls-only chain of tech camps" to go with the existing de facto boys-only tech camps. That fixes it.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
>> Literally every other computer camp is a "boys computer camp" because they dominate the enrollment.
No they're not "boys computer camps". As far as I'm aware they don't limit access based on gender. Google's camp does.
If girls don't want to go to a computer camp with a gender makeup that reflects real life (i.e. non-segregated) then its THEM directly being whiny princesses and making the problem. That behaviour should not be tolerated, much less encouraged by Google.
Sergy Brin went to CTY a program promoted by Johns Hopkins and Princeton. Also affectionately known as Nerd Camp (and the subject of an upcoming movie).
Our daughter is enrolled in CTYOnline and will be going to camp next year. This is a wonderful program. There is no gender/race bias and while somewhat costly, there is financial aid for low income families. However this is a tough program to be admitted to, you need to take special testing, and you better be in the top 2% of the population test score wise.
The real education crisis here in America is that parents just expect the school to do everything for them, and don't challenge their children outside of school. Without extra study and help outside of school especially in math topics and vocabulary, no way would our child have qualified for CTY. Cut down on the TV watching and game playing. Demand a lot of reading and keep your kid at least a grade ahead in math -- that is the way to a secure future. That said our daughter still has time to play with friends and watch all the Disney movies as they come out. We just don't let her rot her brain watching TV 6 hours a day. Its not a total ban on TV, but it's less than an hour a day on average.
Letter To Iran
Hello butler,
Hello poodle,
Here I am at
Camp by Google.
Camp is very
Highfalutin
Cause it's all-a
'Bout computin'.
"Try to like it",
Mama told me.
If I diss it,
Then she'll scold me.
All the boys are
Banned from coming
Since Mom finds their
Presence dumbing.
Since they do this
Just for funsies,
Makes us look bad --
Hence the shunsies.
This is stupid
I lack interest.
I would rather
Be on Pinterest.
'Stead of sitting,
Making faces,
Can't a boy just
Trade me places?
If the camps are designed to get girls interested in tech, and give them the confidence to pursue it, I see nothing wrong with it. Sadly, it'll be co-opted by the feminist-left and turned into a "Girl Power" circle-jerk. Men and women learn and process information differently. There's nothing wrong with that, but they also need to understand how to exist in a workspace with the opposite gender.
Kid hates computers? Send her to a $1000/week camp that will teach her to hate computers even more. Boy, it must be nice to be rich and from Silicon Valley.
In eusocial insect colonies, the workers are all parasitically castrated females.
They are parasitically castrated by their own queen mother who uses them as cells in her extended body called the hive or colony.
The real problem we face is that human civilization isn't as highly evolved as the eusocial insects: Civilization's components (erstwhile "humans") don't have the phenotypic plasticity that allows ontogenic paths so radically different as to permit the same genome to become either a queen or a parasitically castrated female worker depending on its upbringing.
We must fervently work to correct this deficiency.
Seastead this.
Promoting and developing diversity candidates is how we get disasters like HP.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I fully agree with part of what you state. People may hate activities because of the time and place of activity and not the activity. That said, it's certainly not the only, or even majority, of the reason people dislike activities. Using your metaphor, I know plenty of people that hate sports but go to games because it's a social event with lots of drinking. I know plenty of wine drinkers that go to the sports bar, and plenty who hate wine and go to the same bar.
In between the two ends of the spectrum, there are plenty of variances.
In my opinion Susan Wojcicki is not demonstrating good parenting or knowledgeable thought on psychology. Her daughter did not like computers before the camp, so the camp would not change her opinion even if it was all girls. It may have been more tolerable because the daughter would have been able to attract similar minded girls to non computer related activities, but that is a huge leap to enjoying computers and programming.
Some people amazingly see more to life than a career. It's that part that we should be encouraging, not the "work till you die" mentality.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
FTA: "To make gender parity a reality, the two said coding needed to be better integrated into education and workplaces needed to be more flexible for parents."
So the lemmings focused on gender but failed to see the real agenda here: making programming a requirement in K-12 education. Don't get distracted by the boobs. Look at what they're is doing behind your back. This is another attempt at increasing H1B-Visas and to get politicians to buy the notion there's a STEM shortage.
I disagree that every other computer camp is a boy's computer camp, but I agree that it's just not a serious problem when boys are allowed into 95% of computer camps (and the same goes for a theoretical boys-only camp). People all the time do things whose gender makeup doesn't reflect real life. Girls have a girls' night out. Boys have a boys' night out. It's not a hell-worthy sin.
It would be a bit different maybe if the all-girls camp was materially better than the camps boys had access to. But as is, I don't know how you can get worked up over it.
>> I don't know how you can get worked up over it.
If it was just a social/privately organized thing (like your Boys/Girls Night Out example) of course I wouldn't care, but its different when a global company like Google are sending such a message as being (in line with) their corporate policy.
...to open a 'Boys Only' computer camp and watch the feminists rail against it's exclusion of girls, as they should...
Ken
I hate computers, don't you all too?
If you think back to your school years or meet a few students you'll find plenty of examples of people who could not succeed at the more difficult high school mathematics subjects. That's why there is more than one stream.
A lack of motivation may have more bearing than a lack of "talent", but for whatever reason some of it is seen as too difficult for some students.