Amazon Launches 'Flex,' a Crowdsourced Delivery Service

sckirklan writes: Amazon has rolled out a new service called Amazon Flex. It lets people sign up to deliver packages using their mobile phone and their car, earning $18-25/hr while doing so. Think Uber, but for package delivery. Their goal is to fully support one-hour delivery within certain cities. The service is available in Seattle to start, and it'll soon expand to Manhattan, Baltimore, Miami, Dallas, Austin, Chicago, Indianapolis, Atlanta, and Portland. No news on what they think of bicycle couriers, but given their focus on being green, I'd imagine something is in the works.

Comments

No News on bikes?

[OverlordQ]

It's on the main page:

Can I bike or walk?
Currently we are only offering options to drive but in the future we may offer opportunities to deliver via bike or on foot.

Re:No News on bikes?

[Scorpinox]

I've seen Amazon bikes in Seattle already, though it was a bike with a big branded box and two tires in the rear, and the person riding it didn't seem all that experienced. Might've just been a test type thing.

Re:No News on bikes?

[93 Escort Wagon]

In Seattle, the Jimmy John's delivery guys often ride bikes - especially in the U District. It'd be funny if I could order an Italian Night Club and a dozen batteries, then have the same guy deliver both!

Re:No News on bikes?

[GaryB2]

My $300 Amazonfresh order was delivered this past Sunday by a guy on a bicycle; hauling a trailer with three big totes on it.

Re:No News on bikes?

[lgw]

I'm guessing Amazon hired the bicycle guys for their Prime 1-hour delivery experiment (which has been a few weeks now), and this is the next step. Not sure why they'd hire the bicycle guys and not the couriers, but perhaps they want to buy the bikes, but not the cars? Hard to say - they definitely bought (or leased) a bunch of trucks for Amazon fresh.

Re:No News on bikes?

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

https://www.electricbike.com/u...

Re:No News on bikes?

[captjc]

We get Amazon deliveries up here in Canada by girls on Rollerblades. I ended up getting involved with one of them, long story short, very high maintenance. I had to get in a fight with all of her exes, who were all kind of dicks. One of them killed me, but luckily I had an extra life. Anyway, it somehow all seemingly worked out in the end.

The point I am trying to make is that this is a bad idea since Amazon delivery girls are bad news and attract really crazy exes. Having more of these girls around can only spell trouble. Do yourself a favor and stay away from Amazon delivery girls for your own sake, and the sake of your friends. Trust me on this.

--Scott P.

Re:No News on bikes?

[fahrbot-bot]

In Seattle, the Jimmy John's delivery guys often ride bikes - especially in the U District. It'd be funny if I could order an Italian Night Club and a dozen batteries, then have the same guy deliver both!

I did not know that Jimmy John's sold vibrators. But a dozen batteries? Either you like to keep busy or that thing is HUGE.

Figure out independent contractor vs employee?

[geschbacher79]

It'll be interesting to see if they solve Uber's problem in California, where their drivers existed in a grey area of employment, with courts deciding they were employees (and thus entitled to expenses) rather than independent contractors. Interesting that the list of cities mentioned so far avoids California, even though SF and LA would be ideal cities for this. I'm guessing they'll construct their driver contracts with extremely thoroughly reviewed legal definitions to avoid having these drivers classified as employees.

Re:Figure out independent contractor vs employee?

[plopez]

I emailed them asking to see their contract.

Re:Figure out independent contractor vs employee?

[evilviper]

Uber went too-far... They dictated the acceptable models of vehicles, their condition, where and when drivers needed to position themselves, etc., etc. Amazon has far less reason to dictate such minutiae, so they're far less likely to run into trouble.

My concern would be more about security... In a gated community, instead of just the UPS/FedEx/USPS drivers needing to be allowed entry, now anyone and everyone can claim they're delivering a package... Any thief who want to case a building can conveniently sign-up as a delivery driver, and have a legitimate reason to be at the location, studying the security layout. The risk used-to be failure to check on *fake* delivery men, now the legitimate ones can be the criminals.

Re:Figure out independent contractor vs employee?

[ColdWetDog]

When you sign up to work for this, I would doubt that you get to restrict your deliveries to a couple of gated communities. Unless you're really hard up, very patient or preternatrally stupid, there are much easier ways of casing upper class houses.

Deliver pizzas. Pretend you're from 'Mission Impossible'. Wear decent clothes and walk through the area.

Re:Figure out independent contractor vs employee?

[lgw]

Gated community "security" is only effective vs opportunistic street crime, it's never helped vs a clever, determined thief. While almost all theft is the former, the latter is the guy who spends hours looting everything of value.

The cops do know about Uber, and there's been at least one Uber driver arrested after taking someone to the airport, then going back to rob their place. Anyone doing anything that obvious will get busted, regardless of the delivery service.

Re:Figure out independent contractor vs employee?

[evilviper]

Wear decent clothes and walk through the area.

Oddly enough, gates and doors don't unlock themselves when a well-dressed gentleman walks by... You need a good reason to be granted access to a locked area.

Re:Figure out independent contractor vs employee?

[rmdingler]

Also, too, and neither... we live in the age of ubiquitous cameras and alarm systems. The household burglary rate has been in steady decline since 1994.

A great number of breaking and entering complaints are idiot junkies looking for a fix, and the skilled cat burglar is a tiny minority of the throngs of dummies who spend half their lives free & high...and the other half with all bills paid, incarcerated & sober.

Re:Figure out independent contractor vs employee?

[Anonymous Coward]

By being a well-dressed gentleman who walks in just as they're leaving?

Re:Figure out independent contractor vs employee?

[edtice1559]

However if you're wearing a suit, people do treat you much differently when attempting to gain access to certain areas. Maybe that shouldn't matter, but it does. Show up looking like you're from the inner city and say "I have a delivery for ... " and you'll be subject to endless scrutiny. Put on a suit and say "I have an appointment with ... " and you'll be ushered in and offered coffee.

drones?

[Anonymous Coward]

What happened to the drones? Oh wait? What? We're the drones?

Re:drones?

[plopez]

That's "Interchangeable Biological Units" you insensitive clod!

Re:drones?

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably nothing happened. Did you think Amazon was just going to give up entirely on automation? Or that a company can only do one thing?

I was waiting for this

[Idimmu Xul]

This is the uber of the owner driver truck/van model, should be interesting to see what happens!

Re:I was waiting for this

[Anonymous Coward]

I just want to know if it has a better or worse "package loss*" rate than UPS, FedEx and the rest.

*where package loss is a diplomatic way of saying "stolen by driver"

Re: I was waiting for this

[Anonymous Coward]

Except trucking generally involves business licensing and hours of service rules.

Re:I was waiting for this

[postbigbang]

Hmmm. Common Carrier, Commercial Livery, competition with the USPS, FedEx, UPS, and DHL. Add in liability insurance costs, possible theories about CDLs for certain products, and let's see how far this one gets. Novel idea.... but they battle titans and their supply chain.

Re:I was waiting for this

[dotancohen]

This is the uber of the owner driver truck/van model, should be interesting to see what happens!

I would love to sign up for this. Imagine, I could _get_paid_ to intercept packages and tamper with them. Install my malware right on people's new phones, loggers in their computers and peripherals, the possibilities are endless.

I wonder if many NSA moles will be signing up as well.

Re:I was waiting for this

[ColdWetDog]

You're gonna spend your days infiltrating peoples toilet paper and associated sundries? Whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

I think the NSA workbook is just a bit farther along than this.

Re:I was waiting for this

[Anonymous Coward]

You're gonna spend your days infiltrating peoples toilet paper and associated sundries?

Imagine that we infiltrate the toilet paper and install devices that report back all sorts of data pertaining to each wipe! That's gonna take targeted advertising to the next level!

Re:I was waiting for this

[dotancohen]

You're gonna spend your days infiltrating peoples toilet paper and associated sundries?

Imagine that we infiltrate the toilet paper and install devices that report back all sorts of data pertaining to each wipe! That's gonna take targeted advertising to the next level!

Sort of how dogs sniff each other's ass to know what the other dog eats, how healthy it is, if it lives in a house or on the street, etc.

Re:I was waiting for this

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit most likely contains traces of illegal substances that you consumed. This is of interest to many people.

I always love hearing about city-based services

[NotDrWho]

It's always nice to read about the high speed fiber, car services, delivery services, etc. that I know will NEVER EVER come to my small city.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Anonymous Coward]

If the mountain won't come to Muhammad then Muhammad must go to the mountain.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why you don't live in a small city. You thought the reduced cost of living was free? It comes at the expense of reduced quality of life.

Now you're a professional jack of all trades(the inane shit people used to waste their free time on before Silicon Valley startups allowed people to outsource their domestic distractions boggles the mind). Enjoy doing your own laundry, driving to the grocery store, and fixing your own toilet.

Stick to your core competency and live close enough to a population center to outsource everything else. Hopefully your time is worth too much to be driving yourself to the store.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[NotDrWho]

The state outlaws my city from having it's own municipal mountain. So I have to wait for a private company to bring one in, which will never happen because some company already has a monopoly and can charge us $80/month for a molehill instead.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[93 Escort Wagon]

That's why you don't live in a small city. You thought the reduced cost of living was free? It comes at the expense of reduced quality of life.

I expect your definition of "reduced quality of life" is much different than the parent poster's.

Now you're a professional jack of all trades(the inane shit people used to waste their free time on before Silicon Valley startups allowed people to outsource their domestic distractions boggles the mind). Enjoy doing your own laundry, driving to the grocery store, and fixing your own toilet.

As opposed to, what, your parents' doing it? Most adults - even in the "big city" - mostly do this stuff for themselves. You might be surprised how easy it is to repair a toilet, and it won't cost you $200 to do so.

And it might surprise you to know that plumbers and dry cleaners existed long before Silicon Valley was a thing.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Anonymous Coward]

The state outlaws my city from having it's own municipal mountain. So I have to wait for a private company to bring one in, which will never happen because some company already has a monopoly and can charge us $80/month for a molehill instead.

You missed the point. YOU need to move.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Grishnakh]

Do you have high-speed internet? (I mean higher than slow-ass DSL)

If so, then don't worry, you're doing better than everyone who's getting this. They're in Seattle. Seattle has no high-speed internet.

So while these people might enjoy getting Amazon packages delivered to them in an hour, they're going to have a miserable time just browsing the Amazon website with ~128kbps DSL to make these purchases.

I live in a rather rural area currently (a very very small town) and I have very fast cable internet, and have no problems watching Netflix, something that people in Seattle simply cannot do.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Quirkz]

Hey, sometimes laws can be changed. My current small town (actually, possibly the state, but in some way where the city can overrule it or opt out) has some non-compete restrictions with services like internet, but we've got it on the ballot to let the city start providing fiber internet at 10x the going speeds. I'm pretty excited about that ballot item.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[0100010001010011]

Remember when Craigs List was San Francisco only?

Let them work out the bugs.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Anonymous Coward]

Because having a yard to play in, a garage to store my cars, a workshop to tinker in, nobody making noise through my walls at all hours or complaining that my TV is too loud, no one telling me that my small animal is a forbidden pet but the tenant next door is still allowed to keep a pitbull, etc... is SO ruining my quality of life!

And 200,000+ people, not counting other neighboring suburbs, is hardly a "small town" either.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Grishnakh]

That's why you don't live in a small city. You thought the reduced cost of living was free? It comes at the expense of reduced quality of life.

Not always true. This story is about a delivery service by Amazon which is being tried out in Seattle. Seattle has no broadband internet service. I live in a tiny town and I can watch Netflix, which is something that people in Seattle cannot do. I'm already thinking about where I want to move next in a year or three, and while I am looking at larger cities, Seattle's been crossed off my list for that reason alone. I'm not moving any place that's so horribly run that they can't even get some kind of decent broadband service in place.

And why the hell would you outsource grocery shopping of all things? Someone else doesn't know what things I might like (unless she's married to me...), or what brands I do and don't like, or what I might want to buy on a whim. That's just ridiculous.

And why would I want some stranger stomping around my house just to fix a leaky toilet when I can do it myself in 5 minutes?

Or have someone else do my laundry and screw it up with too much bleach? I used to have a wife who thought like you, and wanted to hire domestic help for stuff like that. I got a bunch of broken glasses and dishes and a ton of completely ruined laundry as a result. The only thing that housekeeper was good at was hiding all her mistakes for as long as possible. The reason people get jobs like that is because they're too stupid to get a normal job that pays better, and I have better things to do with my time and money than go buy new glasses and dishes and clothing and sheets constantly. (And again, that's something else that can't be outsourced, because I'm not going to be happy with what someone else picks out for me.)

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[evilviper]

It's always nice to read about the high speed fiber, car services, delivery services, etc. that I know will NEVER EVER come to my small city.

Actually, it often works the opposite way around... Look at the biggest cities in the US and you'll find lower penetration of fiber than the less-populated suburbs. Or take the extreme case and look at most of Western Europe, where labor prices are so high that replacing the (slow) DSL networks just isn't economic.

Plenty of sparsely populated suburbs in the US have FIOS deployed (while cities do NOT), because labor there is cheaper than the big cities, the area isn't so densely built-up that installing new lines gets astronomically expensive, and since the town's telephone lines need to keep operating, the lower maintenance costs of fiber eventually pay for the deployment.

The same could be true for "sharing" services like Uber & AirB&B... Lower cost of living in rural areas, lower labor prices, lower fuel prices, more idle cars/homes, etc., could make such things economical... certainly more economic than the huge overhead of traditional hotels & taxis.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Anonymous Coward]

Seattle certainly has the poor internet choices that you expect of the US, but I don't know anyone without a connection good enough for Netflix. I have a 50mbps up/10mbps down connection on Comcast for $45/mo. No great deal and requires dealing with Comcast, but it's certainly workable. Not that there aren't other reasons to not move to Seattle (rents are rising rapidly; zoning and transit politics are poor enough that that's not improving any time soon), I just don't think that's one of them. It doesn't sound like you're too big a fan of city life in general, though. Some of us like doing everything ourselves; others of us would rather outsource some of those tasks to people who specialize in them. (e.g., I don't have a cleaning service... but the people who specialize in that are way, way faster/better at it than I am.)

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Jax Omen]

If you have Comcast, you probably don't actually live in Seattle.

Internet in the Seattle Metropolitan Area (Kirkland, Bellevue, Renton, Burien, etc) is fine.

Internet in the City of Seattle is often OFFENSIVELY bad (LTE, ISDN, Satellite, Dialup, and in some cases 768mbps DSL being the options).

It's because the City of Seattle is legitimately insane and demands that any new company that wants to provide infrastructure must pay for all repairs/maintenance that the previous companies have neglected. So no one is willing to build infrastructure there because they'll never turn a profit.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Jax Omen]

768kbps -_-

I should have noticed that before posting. Oh well.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Grishnakh]

It doesn't sound like you're too big a fan of city life in general, though.

I've lived in cities and large metro areas before. I used to live outside NYC, and wouldn't mind living in Manhattan if I could find a job that paid well, but the industries there don't work too well with my skillset and I really don't like the idea of working in finance.

I just don't like the idea of DSL speeds. As the other poster noted, if you have Comcast and those speeds, you don't live in Seattle. Other cities don't have that problem.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I live in Seattle; NE Capitol Hill to be specific. I've never heard of a location in Seattle city limits that didn't have either Comcast cable at up to 100mpbs or fiber (only a few expensive apartment buildings). Either your information is out of date, or the internet quality gets rapidly worse once you get north of Greenwood / south of downtown, which I would believe.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[demonlapin]

Dude, nobody wants to live where I do, and we have UberX and will soon have fiber (if you're in the right neighborhoods). If you have even minimal density, it can be done. Maybe not as cheap as muni fiber, but we have a company walking into a Comcast + AT&T area and competing (and based on what my neighbors say, they are going to do really well). I'm already relishing the phone conversation where I tell Comcast to go to hell.

The funny part is that this used to be Time-Warner, before the big trade. Every time I see people complain about TW service, I laugh. They're like Neiman-Marcus vs Walmart when it comes to comparing customer service with Comcast.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Anonymous Coward]

Because having a yard to play in, a garage to store my cars, a workshop to tinker in, nobody making noise through my walls at all hours or complaining that my TV is too loud, no one telling me that my small animal is a forbidden pet but the tenant next door is still allowed to keep a pitbull, etc... is SO ruining my quality of life!

And 200,000+ people, not counting other neighboring suburbs, is hardly a "small town" either.

200k is a hick town compared to a real city. Even a million people is nothing like being in NYC, Tokyo or even Boston/Philly.

You pay less for housing, true, but you yourself complained that you have shitty Internet. You suffer in a million other unseen ways too. How many kinds of pizza are there that you can walk to? Do they have conveyor belt sushi restaurants in your town? Is there even a real Japanese restaurant, or is it just Chinese and Panda Express nearby? How's the opera/theater/sporting events? You probably have two big multiplexes nearby, maybe even a smaller cinema too. How many screens are IMAX, how many IMAX experiences does your town support at once? If there are two big movies, only one can be covered in IMAX (or TITAN etc) there...

Yes, you get a big garage, cheap housing, and might even be a short drive from a country line where you can fire rifles off. You prefer the small town, that's fine. But 200k is NOT a city in any way other than by technicalities... in which case 200k is enough people for three _states_ too.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[Anonymous Coward]

I assure you that I do live in Seattle. That service is normal for Capitol Hill (where I live) and all of the neighborhoods between there and Sand Point across to Ballard, at least. I can't speak for much further from the canal due to not knowing many people who live further out without actually being in the suburbs. Most people I know don't pay for it because it's over priced (as I said, I pay $45/mo for 50mpbs and that required spending some time on the phone getting a "discount") but it's not unavailable.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[tehcyder]

If I had to spend so much of my life at work that I considered a couple of hours a week doing grocery shopping or my laundry a noticeable intrusion on my free time, I'd rather kill myself.

Not all of us consider living at Google HQ the sum of human existence.

Re:I always love hearing about city-based services

[tehcyder]

How's the opera/theater/sporting events?

Most people living in big cities go to the opera, theatre, or big sporting event about as often as someone living in the countryside, i.e. once in a blue moon.

How many kinds of pizza are there that you can walk to?

Who gives a fuck? It's like asking how many different burger joints you need.

Do they have conveyor belt sushi restaurants in your town? Is there even a real Japanese restaurant

Probably. At least here in the UK, even medium sized towns have dozens of different types of restaurant including lots of different Asian cuisines.

Big cities have one real advantage: when you're young and single there are many more opportunities for meeting random sexual partners.

Insurance policy

[Toshito]

Check the insurance policy on your car before rushing to Amazon to offer your services... Chances are that this is considered as a commercial usage of your car and you're not covered.

Re:Insurance policy

[RabidReindeer]

And $18-25/hr? How is that supposed to give us our Everyday Low Prices?

Re:Insurance policy

[gatfirls]

Came here for this. It most definitely is use for commercial purposes.

I would hope that Amazon has a way to mitigate that issue otherwise it's pretty cruddy to let people hang themselves without fair warning.

Also, I wonder how USPS feels about this considering they expanded delivery to sunday for amazon.

Re:Insurance policy

[Grishnakh]

If they get one driver to deliver a bunch of packages to a group of closely-located addresses which is 15 minutes away, it'll be a lot cheaper than paying FedEx $5-10/box.

Re:Insurance policy

[gnupun]

What a ripoff! A taxi driver easily makes $60-100/hr, before his expenses (assuming around $2/mile and 30-50 miles traveled).

So you get minimum wage for doing delivery work + using your car for Amazon's benefit.

Re:Insurance policy

[Dog-Cow]

Where do you live that a) a taxi driver can bring in $60/hour on a regular basis and b) the minimum wage is at or above $18/hr? Because you sure as hell don't live in the US.

Re: Insurance policy

[Anonymous Coward]

What taxi driver do you k ow that makes that much?

Re: Insurance policy

[gnupun]

Read my post again... that's before expenses. He still has to pay for gas, for car maintenance, for his medallion, for time and fuel wasted finding customers etc.

If you still don't believe me, here's the US per mile taxi rates and they range from roughly $2 to $3 per mile. That's $60 to $150 per hour for a distance of 30 miles to 50 miles. Yup, if you can cut expenses, and limit time wasted on finding customers, a taxi driver can make more than any engineer.

Re:Insurance policy

[tehcyder]

Check the insurance policy on your car before rushing to Amazon to offer your services... Chances are that this is considered as a commercial usage of your car and you're not covered.

It's all part of the monopolistic government-delivery service-insurance industry complex that is ruining the Western world.

Re:Insurance policy

[tehcyder]

Came here for this. It most definitely is use for commercial purposes.

I would hope that Amazon has a way to mitigate that issue otherwise it's pretty cruddy to let people hang themselves without fair warning

No doubt it's covered by Amazon's own insurance, or whatever the Uber line is this week.

Re:Insurance policy

[Toshito]

It's all part of the monopolistic government-delivery service-insurance industry complex that is ruining the Western world.

Of course... of course... Can you just stay still for a moment?

Give me your arm... you will only feel a little prick... There, relax, it will all be over in a moment.

Re: Insurance policy

[Anonymous Coward]

if you can cut expenses, and limit time wasted on finding customers

Also, if large bags of money start magically appearing in the taxi.

As stated, your scenario is absurd. I used to drive cab. I was making, on average, $5 per day, net. Per day.

Your "if you can" would be more accurately phrased as "since you can't".

Re:Insurance policy

[Anonymous Coward]

Except it is less likely to become know that you were in an accident while making an Amazon delivery. An Uber driver has to deal with injuries sustained by his passengers, and possibly getting sued. An Amazon driver needs to only worry about damage to the items he is carrying, which Amazon might already have insured. I am not saying you shouldn't have commercial coverage, but that the likelihood of have your claimed denied is very low.

Re: Insurance policy

[Toshito]

Where I live, we call that fraud...

Unsealed food!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't want unsealed food from the even the best restaurant that is delivered by some random person.

Re:Unsealed food!?!

[captjc]

I take it someone hates pizza delivery.

Re:Unsealed food!?!

[tehcyder]

I take it someone hates pizza delivery.

I've only ever had pizza delivered when I'm too drunk to walk, so my standards of food hygience have already gone out the window.

Does this work out for the driver?

[Harlequin80]

8 hour shift is $200 max. Out of that comes fuel & vehicle wear and tear, IRS say 57c per mile and I would have thought 20 miles an hour was reasonable including stops etc so that $91.20 on an 8 hour shift. Add to that cost of capital of the car, insurance, accountants, other ancillary "run your own business costs" and I'm struggling to see you making $10 an hour.....

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Pinky's Brain]

Over here in the Netherlands delivery services mostly started using "independent contractors" (but not really) and that's about how it ended up, they were working for less than minimum wage.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[ganjadude]

just like uber, thats why you dont use this to be a full time gig. you use this to supplement.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly, that's the new way whether it's done by Uber, Amazon, even pizza delivery. It will soon be global except for intellectual workers, construction workers to some degree, and some others (police, etc).

People always talk about minimum wage and hiking it.

But the value of their work is less than the minimum wage because of technological advances. In this case, when drones can deliver the value of these delivery contractors might drop from ~$15/hr to $0.50/hr.

Instead, the focus should be on price deflation, especially considering that many people end up out of work anyway, even more so as the minimum wage goes up, to help the surplus proletariat.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Grishnakh]

The only way I see this being worthwhile is if you can plan it out so that you can swing by the Amazon warehouse and grab some stuff and deliver it to a place that happens to be along a route you're already traveling along, such as your commute home.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Toshito]

Add to that the cost of subscribing to a commercial insurance for your car.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[zlives]

like begging or being a food/crack whore

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[ShanghaiBill]

vehicle wear and tear, IRS say 57c per mile

Unless you are putting miles on a brand new luxury car, there is no way that normal wear and tear is going to be anywhere close to 57c per mile ... yet you can still deduct that much, which makes most of your actual income tax-free.

I'm struggling to see you making $10 an hour.....

Plenty of people would be happy to clear $10 an hour in a job that allows them to be out on the road with no boss looking over their shoulder. You live a sheltered life if you think $10/hour is a bad wage for someone with no skills.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Harlequin80]

They tend to be independent contractors in Australia as well. But I know they are making more than minimum wage, a friend works for Couriers Please. It's hard work but she seems to enjoy it compared to other things she has done.

But what I don't understand is why you wouldn't just go and work at Maccas you would probably take more home with less stress.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Harlequin80]

A significant portion of the income would be taxed still. And call it sheltered if you like but the National Minimum Wage where I live is $17.25 per hour. So in my opinion $10 per hour for work in a first world country where you have to invest significant capital upfront to get the job IS a shit wage. Especially when you combine it with no guarantee of work so no guarantee of pay.

Looking at numbeo the average monthly rental on a 1 bedroom apartment, not in the city is 802.14 per month. That means that they are going to be looking at essentially 2 weeks work just to cover the cost of tiny accommodation. In a month they are going to be lucky to have $800 on which to pay their bills and eat.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[rmdingler]

8 hour shift is $200 max. Out of that comes fuel & vehicle wear and tear, IRS say 57c per mile and I would have thought 20 miles an hour was reasonable including stops etc so that $91.20 on an 8 hour shift. Add to that cost of capital of the car, insurance, accountants, other ancillary "run your own business costs" and I'm struggling to see you making $10 an hour.....

Though I'd suggest the 57 cents per mile reimbursement allowance is fairly generous for a courier with an economical auto, you are indeed onto the crux of the issue.

Delivery contractors will be incentivized to cut corners on things like maintenance, replacement tires, oil changes, and so on.

I've been in business when I had money, and when I did not. It is infinitely more difficult to do everything properly when you are poor.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[rmdingler]

But what I don't understand is why you wouldn't just go and work at Maccas you would probably take more home with less stress.

Maccas... swell done.

Some pimply-faced assistant manager might be on your ass at Maccas, so I don't know about the less stress angle, but some folks will take a cut in pay to be the boss.

Even their own boss.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Maxo-Texas]

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Newsroo...

The standard mileage rate for business is based on an annual study of the fixed and variable costs of operating an automobile, including depreciation, insurance, repairs, tires, maintenance, gas and oil.

Note: based on hard data.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Harlequin80]

And I do get that. But at $10 an hour with having to put in your own capital..... I dunno, I kinda think I would prefer to offer lawn mowing services.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Harlequin80]

Same. I work for myself and have had times when I have struggled to meet the bills. But I haven't been tied to an hourly rate which meant I had more that I could achieve when things go well.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only way I see this being worthwhile is if you can plan it out so that you can swing by the Amazon warehouse and grab some stuff and deliver it to a place that happens to be along a route you're already traveling along, such as your commute home.

Which is exactly what Uber and other "ride share" places were supposed to be (but aren't). 1 hour delivery is tight though. Same day would let lot of people swing by from a nearby office, grab some boxes for their neighborhood and drop them off after work, but I don't want my neighbors seeing what I get and I wouldn't want to give random, untraceable people the ability to tamper with packages either.

40 people working 1 hour a day is not as accountable as one guy working 40 a week...

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Grishnakh]

I wouldn't want to give random, untraceable people the ability to tamper with packages either.

Well presumably, these drivers wouldn't be people who just signed up that day with their phone, they'd have to go through some kind of application process with Amazon to get this job, and then Amazon would track which drivers got which packages.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Anonymous Coward]

Delivery drivers live a hard life, let me tell you. They are paid much more handsomly than that. Think 80k.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[edtice1559]

As somebody who received that mileage reimbursement, I love getting it. Feels like tax free income. My vehicle depreciates with time whether I operate it or not. Assuming a $20k vehicle that will be worth $10k with $100k miles on it, that's $0.10 per mile in depreciation. $0.10 per mile for gasoline. Tires, brakes, oil changes. Probably about $5k over the life of the vehicle. That comes up with $0.25/mile, less than half of the IRS guidance. Notice that they only give you $0.14 per mile if driving for charitable purposes. It's not cheaper to drive for charity so these IRS numbers aren't based on "hard data." Your car doesn't know the intent of your trip and adjust itself accordingly.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Anonymous Coward]

You live a sheltered life if you think $10/hour is a bad wage for someone with no skills.

Let's hope driving skills.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[MooseTick]

"IRS say 57c per mile"

Just because the IRS allots 57c/mile doesn't mean that it actually cost that to run a vehicle. I'm not saying you'll get rich driving your own vehicle, but if you're willing to drive a cheap fuel efficient car into the ground, you can make ok money being a delivery person.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[MooseTick]

"the National Minimum Wage where I live is $17.25 per hour"

What nation is that?

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[cthulhu11]

Amortize the cost of the car itself and maintenance.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[david_thornley]

I believe that 57 cents is for all costs. Capital investment, gas and other consumables, insurance (for commercial driving you need commercial insurance), maintenance and repair, miscellaneous costs, whatever. For me, it's still going to come well under 57 cents, but I drive a reliable small car.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't want to give random, untraceable people the ability to tamper with packages either.

Well presumably, these drivers wouldn't be people who just signed up that day with their phone, they'd have to go through some kind of application process with Amazon to get this job, and then Amazon would track which drivers got which packages.

GP AC here. Let me rephrase. A delivery guy who does it exclusively for one vendor has 100% of his income at risk if he steals my shiny new mac book. A guy who does it with a bunch of places, part time between his pizza delivery/burger flip/uber job is only risking 1/40=2.5% of his income, making him ~40x likelier to steal from me.

To put it another way, I expect the heart surgeon's team to pay a lot more attention to avoid dropping the heart than if they gave it to a bike messenger headed in that direction anyway. There's a middle ground, but there's not enough detail to know which side of it this program is on... Not that I live in an area eligible for same day much less 1 hour delivery.

Re:Does this work out for the driver?

[Harlequin80]

Australia.

Casing potential robery places

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh... I'm not sure I want some random stranger showing up at my house (thus learning/knowing my address). Granted any employee of the "official" mail services might not be more trustworthy but, I don't know...

Re:Casing potential robery places

[Fwipp]

Guess what - anyone who sees your house on the street knows where you live.

Next up: Worrying about the existence of neighbors and pizza delivery men.

Re:Casing potential robery places

[Anonymous Coward]

Straw man you have there.

I don't care if a pizza delivery guy knows I'm buying pizza. I care when his meth head roommate knows I'm buying expensive electronics from Amazon.

Re:Casing potential robery places

[gatfirls]

This may terrify you: Any stranger can find out where you live any time. I mean unless you are like in witness protection or something.

Re:Casing potential robery places

[DogDude]

Dipshit, Amazon sells your information to many, many, MANY different people. If you think the delivery person is the only person knows you're buying expensive electronics from Amazon, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Re:Casing potential robery places

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is that random guy any more sketchy than the random guy who normally delivers your Amazon orders?

Re:Casing potential robery places

[zlives]

because the UPS guy actually makes money doing this and has more to loose by being fired.

Re:Casing potential robery places

[MooseTick]

" I care when his meth head roommate knows I'm buying expensive electronics from Amazon"

How often are you buying "expensive electronics" ? This would seem to be a rare occasion. Or are you having $1000 items delivered daily?

Re:Casing potential robery places

[Anonymous Coward]

True. Could you be so kind as to post your address for us?

Re:Casing potential robery places

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really. The consequences of stealing your shit aren't just getting fired, it's getting arrested too. They both have the same reason to want to avoid that, and roughly the same chance of getting caught.

There may be legitimate objections to this system, but "oh god it's a random stranger" can never be one of them.

delivery service

[Anonymous Coward]

I do not want some random person walking up to my door with a box. I do not want some random person walking into my neighborhood with a box.

Yet another idiotic, profoundly stupid idea from slave-driver Amazon.

LOL @ vword: hazard

Re: delivery service

[Anonymous Coward]

They make you pass a background check to deliver for them. Hardly random.

Re:delivery service

[Grishnakh]

A FedEx driver isn't a "random person"? I don't know about you, but I have no idea who the typical people who deliver USPS, UPS, and FedEx packages to me are. They might be wearing a uniform, but that doesn't mean much; anyone can get one of those. It's amazing how much trust we place in people wearing uniforms.

Re:delivery service

[Falos]

I need sunglasses to read writing so White.

Delivery employees were random people already. Their only special trait is being in their employer's records. Much like Amazon will have.

Much like USPS/etc, local citizens already had "random access" all along. That may be a shocking realization, much like when I informed entitled, squeamish, cleanworld types that they're constantly swallowing a stream of mucus.

Would you like to know more about the bottled water you're obviously a patron of?

Re:delivery service

[vux984]

The Fedex van they got out of is a little more an investment though.

I don't know about you, but I'll answer the door if there's a fedex van out front and fedex uniform at my door.

I'm much less inclined if its random people knocking... usually they're either trying to recruit me to a religion, beg for money, or want to sell me something.

Re:delivery service

[Grishnakh]

Yeah, if you can see the van, that's a good point.

What if you're in an apartment though, and don't have view of the street and didn't or couldn't hear the van pull up?

Also, what about other delivery services? Do you refuse to answer the door when you order a pizza and some guy driving his personal car shows up? Do you check to see if his car has a Domino's sign on top, or ask him for ID or call Domino's to make sure he's an employee there?

Remember also, this is supposedly a service so people can have stuff delivered from Amazon within an hour. It's not like Fedex when it could show up any time during the day; you place the order, and within an hour someone shows up with your item, not much different from pizza delivery really.

Re:delivery service

[vux984]

What if you're in an apartment though, and don't have view of the street and didn't or couldn't hear the van pull up?

Yeah, its not universally applicable.

Also, what about other delivery services? Do you refuse to answer the door when you order a pizza and some guy driving his personal car shows up? Do you check to see if his car has a Domino's sign on top, or ask him for ID or call Domino's to make sure he's an employee there?

Not if its around 30 minutes after I ordered a pizza and he's holding a pizza box.

Remember also, this is supposedly a service so people can have stuff delivered from Amazon within an hour. It's not like Fedex when it could show up any time during the day; you place the order, and within an hour someone shows up with your item, not much different from pizza delivery really.

That's a good point.

Re:delivery service

[tehcyder]

If you're that paranoid, then just don't order pizzas or stuff from Amazon and never answer your door unless the person has phoned you in advance and arranged a password.

why uber has not done this?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

i wonder.

Re:why uber has not done this?

[Anonymous Coward]

they have enough trouble with the TAXI industry, my guess is they don't want the Teamsters on their asses at the same time

Re:why uber has not done this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uber doesn't sell things. Why should Amazon go through a middle man when they can do it themselves?

Please no, just stop with this

[Eyezen]

At least UPS FedEx and the like to a certain extent vet their employees. I don't want some yahoo at my house delivering my packages, playing catch with them and god know what else (staking out my house - get off my lawn).

Sure we can "leave a bad review" but by then it's too fucking late. And to what end - they get "fired" and I got broken shit - big deal, they just move on to the next Uber job.

With the traditional services, you jack around - like the fedEx monitor delivery guy and get caught, you really get FIRED, and there goes your livelihood.

Re:Please no, just stop with this

[Anonymous Coward]

I've noticed UPS just delivering packages to the local post office recently. This is just BS.... as USPS takes another extra day to deliver stuff.

Re:Please no, just stop with this

[ColdWetDog]

I've noticed UPS just delivering packages to the local post office recently. This is just BS.... as USPS takes another extra day to deliver stuff.

Because USPS can do last mile cheaper than UPS, at least under certain circumstances. FedEx has shipped "Ground" to Alaska by flying it to Anchorage and letting the Post Office deliver it. It's just business.

Licensed and bonded?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see all sorts of licensing, bonding and insurance issues popping up around this. I wouldn't want my packages being delivered by some meth junkie who now knows where I live and, from some creative handling, can figure out that I have all sorts of stuff he would like in them boxes.

This isn't "just like Uber". You have a personal choice how your body is transported and you can always refuse to get in the vehicle. Now you can expect some halfwit nutcase who isn't bonded to be delivering your shitty electronics.

Lawsuit coming

[Anonymous Coward]

Next we'll see a story about Adobe suing Amazon over the name "Flex".

My first thought is, Please, No!

[smchris]

I got the infamous You were not home for your delivery! Why were you not home for your delivery? Please visit the USPS site to reschedule your delivery! email this month. Well, if Amazon _really_ sent the package USPS like their order confirmation email said, USPS would know that I had a fraggin HOLD on my mail during the labor day week surrounding that day.

I really, really, really do not want more creative delivery. I just want really stable, logical, predictable delivery. I dont want people on bicycles trying to find my address. Sweet Christ on a Pogo Stick, is that really too much to ask?

Re:My first thought is, Please, No!

[locopuyo]

Then don't select 1 hour delivery...

Re:My first thought is, Please, No!

[zlives]

i don't think they are using pogo sticks but bicycles and maybe mono-cycle may apply. also having Christ based delivery system be pretty nice near water properties.

Re:My first thought is, Please, No!

[zlives]

be a better option if amazon let you choose which delivery method to use. My building security won't let just some asshole in but a uniformed delivery person with proper authorization acquired before hand can enter.

Re:My first thought is, Please, No!

[ColdWetDog]

I just want really stable, logical, predictable delivery. I dont want people on bicycles trying to find my address. Sweet Christ on a Pogo Stick, is that really too much to ask?

Send it to a business location then. Like your place of employment. I get stuff dropped there all of the time. The nice person in the warehouse signs for it, puts in in or under my mailbox. No fuss, no muss. UPS / FedEx loves that. No driving in the hinterlands to drop off a single package. Much easier to drop the pallet off and pick it up later.

Re:My first thought is, Please, No!

[demonlapin]

If you have building security, why don't they just sign for all packages and put them in a storeroom until you claim them? Just like the baggage claim at a hotel, really. You have to check out by noon, flight isn't until late, you leave the bags with the hotel and pick them up when ready to leave.

I do this whenever I go to the west coast: schedule a redeye back east on Saturday night, go eat a nice dinner, pick up the bags around 9-10, head to the airport, enjoy a nice, quiet lounge, and spare myself a night's hotel stay. Catch the connecting flight to my home city and I'm back before noon, plenty of time to unpack and wash clothes before work Monday.

Re:My first thought is, Please, No!

[MooseTick]

"My building security won't let just some asshole in "

Maybe you will need to alert them that you have a package coming within an hour from an unmarked/nonuniformed courier. Problem solved.

end user may get sued if the delivery driver gets

[Joe_Dragon]

The end user may get sued if the delivery driver gets in accident. As amazon can say they are a IC and we don't have to pay up.

Scary

[spiritplumber]

http://motherboard.vice.com/re...

http://marshallbrain.com/manna...

I shall just leave these here, eh?

Re:Scary

[Jesrad]

Iain Banks' Culture just got more realistic XD

1930s depression all over again.

[peterpolle78]

As the subject says, this is 1930s depression all over again. Lots and lots of people being forced into dayjobs not having a stable income to support themselves or their families, and absolutely no securities if they get sick or somehow are not able to work. It might be ok now but just wait until millions of unemployed people are flooding into this area of work pushing the wages way down. In the 1930s people went to the dock where a foreman would handpick a lucky few. The rest could go home without any money for that day. Only difference today is that the foreman will be some app for your smartphone telling you if you got a customer or not... what a horrible life that would be longterm.

Personal deliveries

[Anonymous Coward]

have nothing to do with "being green". Come back and talk about being green when your culture and society picks up stuff at the end of their working day, or the next time they're by the post office, rather than having a truck or a car deliver every single item to the front door. What a curious definition the USA has of "being green".

Car Deliver in Manhattan?

[Anonymous Coward]

No problems there, Ticket and tow.
You need one guy to circle the block while the other guy delivers.

The real killer app; "it's on my way to X"

[Gondola]

Instead of treating this like a full time job, people could be "whenever" deliverers, and be informed by Amazon when a delivery is "on the way" to somewhere they're already going. If you live, work, or recreate near a distribution point, Amazon pops up a text notification and says "Do you want this contract?" sort of like Uber I guess.

good thing, well done

[rewindustry]

modded this nsightful by accident, need to post to cancel that - we need bikes and feet doing this, not unprintable cars.

Sounds like that Laser delivery company they use

[ayesnymous]

Those Laser guys drive up in their own cars.

Stranger Danger

[holophrastic]

Umm, I'm really not interested in random/first-time/first-day/once-and-never-again drivers coming to my house, thank you very much.

Re:Stranger Danger

[Anonymous Coward]

True. Will be interesting to see how many neighbor folk get into the delivery program. Most are very nosy by their nature and now they have a perfectly legal way to get more nosy. Did you miss that HOA meeting or fail to pay your dues? I'll just hold your packages until you pay up. Is your home not up to some city code? Your friendly neighbor will be able to take pictures of your deliveries as they happily deliver them to you and tell the city about how much money you spend...or other people in social media. I'm sure thieves would love that type of juicy intel when planning their next heist.

Perhaps the best would be those stalker types or would-be thiefs (briefly mentioned earlier)...heck, no need to invest in delivery man clothes to scope out tantalizing targets. With package in hand and repeated deliveries they can determine your work schedule, who may be home and so on...heck with a little psychological engineering they may even get you or a family member to let them in the house on occasion to "freshen up".

Re: I always love hearing about city-based service

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would driving to the store be a bad thing? I can go to the store any time I want 24/7. I don't have to wait on trains or busses and I can fit much more in my car than you could carry. And what does sillicon valley have to do with plumbers? Phone books existed long before the internet.

Re: I always love hearing about city-based servic

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, why wouldn't I do my own laundry? It takes minimal effort.

3,...2,...1,...

[nospam007]

I wonder how long it will last before some company, fearing for their income, is calling the cops for "illegal package delivering".

On foot?

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless I lived across the highway from the warehouse...

LaserShip Redux?

[RealGene]

Great. More flakes driving around with my purchases, showing up late or not at all. If they can pay a random dude in a car $18-25, maybe they could just pay UPS/FedEx a buck more, and let them figure out how to do it.

Amazon won't release their contract

[plopez]

I emailed them and here was their response.
"When you come to our onboarding session and download the app, you can review the Terms of Service. "

Not good if you want to study it before making a commitment. Also, if you down load it what if they force you into an NDA?

Wow...

[TaleSpinner]

...something else that will need to be made illegal posthaste lest it upset the existing package-delivery services unused to the idea of gasp! - competition... I give it a year before the crap begins to fly and governments and business demand shutting it down.