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Tesla Unveils the Model X
An anonymous reader writes with news that Tesla has officially unveiled its Model X SUV. It's their third vehicle, after the Roadster and Model S. Its 90kWh battery provides 250 miles of range, and the vehicle can go from zero to 60 mph in 3.2 seconds. According to Reuters, the high-end versions of the Model X will cost between $132,000 and $144,000, while the base model's pricing is not yet known. The vehicle's doors open upward, and it can have seating for either six or seven passengers, depending on layout. The back row of seats can fold down when not in use. The Model X has automatic emergency braking, a 5,000 pound towing capacity, and a so-called "bioweapon defense mode" for its air circulation system that keeps positive pressure within the cabin.
on their Civics.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Selling cars that cost as much as a small house is all well and good if your target market is 1%ers and boomers, but if you want to sell to the mass market you need something that's priced for a generation that will probably never be able to afford to own a home.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
One of the things I found very interesting about the video release is the idea that they put sensors in the falcon wing doors that would alter the rate and angle the two pivot points used to open the doors. I had wondered how they were going to prevent what would have probably ended up being expensive damage if the available opening space around the car was either too low or too close. You have to hand it to Tesla, they really do think about how things should work before they rush in and execute. If they put the same kind of design effort into the Model C, they are going to knock it out of the park.
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
I digress.
"Tesla says that the car features 'a medical grade HEPA filter strips outside air of pollen, bacteria, viruses and pollution before circulating it into the cabin.'"
I'm guessing they don't just use that filter all the time because they don't want to wear out a (presumably) much more expensive filter?
And silly name aside, i could actually see using this feature to defend against the relatively benign bio attacks of skunks and that portion of I-5 in central California right next to all the cattle lots.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
What if the bioweapon is released from within the vehicle... from say, a butt? Is there a defense mode for that that any other vehicle wouldn't already have?
But given their car pricing, the base model X would be price competitive with the Mercedes G class, and the Tesla would out class the Mercedes in just about every way (including looks).
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
Positive cabin pressure. So you can drive it under water right?
Well I see at least 10+ new Range Rovers on the street every day not including tons of Cayennes and Escalade's. The way I see it is you sell to the rich first and those who need their peer status upgraded. Then it trickles down to produce cheaper models.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
bioweapon defense mode
Monocle and white cat time.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I'd rather have a car that goes from 0 to 60 in 6.4 seconds and goes 500 miles. 250 miles just doesn't cut in some parts of the US (out West).
They're planning on selling a $35K model in around 2-3 years, after their battery factory opens.
Meanwhile, there's no shortage of demand for the existing models.
Selling cars that cost as much as a small house is all well and good if your target market is 1%ers and boomers, but if you want to sell to the mass market you need something that's priced for a generation that will probably never be able to afford to own a home.
Tesla will eventually design and price vehicles for everyday people but this follows their strategy of appealing to the 1%ers first to get the products off the ground and to pay for R&D. It's why the first car they produced was a sports car.
Plus, range, especially for an SUV, is really important for most families. Yes, some are used as daily drivers but most families also use them for long trips (Range is 250 miles, ~4 hours highway travel). I would also argue that range would be decrease if you are towing (i.e. boat, camper, etc.). Because of this, it makes sense for them to focus on the luxury market until range is a bit better.
Those retards crack me up. They spend all their money on a stupid car that hogs gas and costs a shit ton in maintenance, not to mention even stupider wheels and tires. I, who makes probably 4 times what they make, drives a completely stock Prius and saves every dollar from the gas I don't buy and wheels and tires I don't buy. Then they bitch about how they're kept down by the man. "No, you're kept down by being an idiot."
But given their car pricing, the base model X would be price competitive with the Mercedes G class, and the Tesla would out class the Mercedes in just about every way (including looks).
We'll have to disagree about the looks. I think the G class is sharp and crossover style SUVs look kind of silly. They're simply too much of a compromise and I don't really understand the point of them. If you want a truck, get a truck. The crossovers don't have the space of a real truck but don't have the handling of a comparable sedan. Plus I have yet to see a crossover SUV that is worth a crap if you leave the pavement. The Model X is about as good looking a crossover as I've seen but that's kind of damning with faint praise.
Plus the G class has legitimate off road chops. I'm pretty dubious the Model X would be worth a crap off road. It's clearly designed to be a high performance on-road vehicle. The G class is a go anywhere vehicle and it looks as good around town as it does off road.
I remember seeing my first flat screen TV in a high end electronics showroom back in 1997. I don't remember the exact size or price, but it was at least 50" and over $20k. I thought it was ridiculous that someone would pay that much for a TV and that I'd never be able to afford one. Walmart has a 50" LED TV that's probably has better technical specs in every way for $300 on their website.
New technology is always expensive for the early adopters. But after that new technology is a generation or two old, newer revised generations is often drastically cheaper.
Tesla has never made a secret that their approach was to sell the high margin luxury vehicles first, where the margins are. The next model they introduce is going to be priced at $35K, which is solidly in the 4-door family sedan price range (Accord, Camry) and the low end of small upscale sedan territory (3-series).
Selling cars that cost as much as a small house is all well and good if your target market is 1%ers and boomers, but if you want to sell to the mass market you need something that's priced for a generation that will probably never be able to afford to own a home.
Where I live, in the midwest, that is the price of a brand new good sized home.
However, I live in a part of town that is kind of run down and it is not uncommon to see people with vehicles that cost twice as much as their home and twice their annual household income as well.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
The term generally is halo car. In the past this has meant a car that was expensive when the company had inexpensive vehicles too, as the expensive one attracted attention and people would buy the cars they could actually afford.
I think they're trying to drive demand and pay for the development costs first, then once they've gotten manufacturing capacity and the technology developed, then they can afford to produce less expensive cars. Perhaps they're right, all other upstart electric car companies have failed when trying the bottom-up approach, maybe the top-down method will work better.
The other aspect to consider is the projected lifespan of these vehicles. I admit I don't know what it actually is, but if they're following a model like the Toyota Landcruiser, which for the bulk of its models was intended to have a 25 year lifespan even when used for its intended rough purpose. If the Teslas are intended to have similar lifespans but as road-going vehicles will see many more miles driven than an off-road Landcruiser, then the price for the vehicles might be as ridiculous as it seems at first.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
I, who makes probably 4 times what they make, drives a completely stock Prius and saves every dollar from the gas I don't buy and wheels and tires I don't buy
Maybe but they probably actually enjoy driving their car. If you drive a Prius it's clear you don't care about enjoying the ride.
Except this isn't new technology, we've had hybrids and electrics for a while now.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Back when "The Millionaire Next Door" was written, the author included data from a survey that said the most common car driven by millionaires at that time was a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I think the next most common was a Ford F-150.
But there are a lot of misconceptions about millionaires (people with a net worth of > $1 million). Most are self-made, most are entrepreneurs, most are worth in the single digit millions, etc.
But the overall theme was, these aren't the people you see out there flaunting wealth. Those people are usually not worth anything. People who are really building wealth are not the conspicuous consumers.
Selling cars that cost as much as a small house
They're a California company. Try finding a house for $132K just about *anywhere* in California, let alone greater LA or SF. Heck, finding a house in many parts of Silicon Valley for $1.32 million is tough.
Why is this a story on slashdot anyway? Jalopnik, sure.... but this isn't news for nerds, and not really even news that matters. It's just a new model press release.
Would have to agree. That thing maybe comes up to my ribs. A normal person would have to duck to get in and unlike an SUV, you are sitting with your legs out in front like a sports car and not on the floor like a chair. It looks like it has less than half the storage space of an SUV. Still, it has good performance and might make a good secondary vehicle. I'd pay $15k for one.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
The vast majority of "SUV" vehicles on the road do not even have 4-wheel drive capability. Sure, that's available as an option, but most people get the base-model to save a few bucks. As a result, you're more likely to see a 2-wheel drive "SUV" than a true off-roader. And yes, your subaru is probably better in a whole range of ways.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
The Model 3 is due in 2017 most likely. Next year Nissan is expected to release a new version of the Leaf with 200 mile range (with some leaked photos recently), and a few other manufacturers are saying they will have affordable long range EVs.
My two year deal on a Leaf is up at the end of 2016 and I was promised a nice new 200 mile range one to trade in for by the dealer. Dealers never lie, right?
Seriously though, most manufacturers seem to think 2017 will be the year of cheap, 250 mile range EVs.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
You are wrong and incorrect.
This was always a Model S platform car. You probably don't even know what that means.
Gen3 was always several years after Model X.
Got it?? Gen 3. Now you won't type like an idiot.
Seriously no one cares. How come you're not bitching about farmers driving 100K F450's ?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
If you don't have a house, it might not make sense to buy an electric car anyway. Charging stations aren't exactly abundant at this point.
Where I live that will build you a 20x20 workshop.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
I think it looks more like a crossover, Toyota Venza / Honda Accord Crosstour - like.
Why ask questions you already know the answer to? The Model 3 is scheduled to begin sales in 2018, which (if I my Tesla-to-Earth-time calculations are correct) means it ought to be available to the public by 2020 or so.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
There are comparably priced SUVs and sedans that use internal combustion engines that Telsa competes with from Mercedes, Lexus, BMW and Audi. Are you railing against the manufacturers selling those vehicles, too? Someone likes what they are selling because they buy them at those prices.
That would be a Ford... !
If I was an IT guy in the SF Bay Area or LA who had a high salary but not enough to buy a $1 million "starter home" this might be where I sink the disposable income.
What better vehicle to pick up MILFs and Soccer Moms than an electric SUV?
Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
Selling cars that cost as much as a small house
They're a California company. Try finding a house for $132K just about *anywhere* in California, let alone greater LA or SF. Heck, finding a house in many parts of Silicon Valley for $1.32 million is tough.
Done: http://www.folkartplayhouses.c...
OK, so they're in Sherman Oaks, but that is in California.
Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
$25k for a 100kWh Tesls Power Pack...
officially unveiled its Model X SUV
A much more fortunate choice than "Model V SUX" would have been.
But seriously: I hope it's viable to open those rear doors when parked a typical distance from an adjacent car in a parking lot.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
$35,000 Tesla Model III coming in 2017
Since they've seemed to slip all of their shcedules by 1-2 years, I'm guessing 2019.
This blog post discusses Tesla's top-down strategy where they use luxury cars to fund development of mass-market cars.
He effected a bored affect.
Worrying about the off road capabilities on a $130,000 car is kind of silly.
That depends on why you bought it. A Bowler EXR costs more than that but is awesome offroad. A Mercedes G class is pretty legit offroad too and is in that price bracket and people do drive them offroad.
Trust me, that's not what people are using them for.
Mostly you are correct. But the claim was that the Model X was superior to the Mercedes G class in every way which is easily and demonstrably not true.
At the end of the video Elon hands out a bunch of keys for the first few VINs. I'm really hoping to see a repeat of that when the Dragon V2 is introduced!
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Those falcon wing doors looks cool, but what about winter? Will the motors be powerful enough to overcome ice? Where will the snow on roof go when you open them?
What a about a ski rack? Where do you put your canoe or your kayak? Your bikes?
Or a luggage rack? Because it's cool to have a 7 passenger SUV, but where do you put the luggage?
When we go camping as a family, we're 6. The only space left for luggage is the tiny space left in the trunk and the big luggage box on the roof.
Try it! Library of Babel
They just can't win with you guys. Here is a US carmaker, hiring US manufacturing workers, and hiring US factory builders, and US factory worker insurance agents, and US building maintenance workers and US building construction workers... And US robot installers, and US salespeople and US car insurance people and US SuperCharger construction workers and US auto engineers and US marketing workers and on and on.
All these non-rich, non-douche workers are taking piles of money away from the "douche"-class. Exactly what will it take to make you happy? You should wish the cars were selling out at 10X the price, to take 10X as much of the cash away from the evil "douche"-class buyers.
Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
Sure, that all makes sense. Why do those people need tax credits?
Lucky you, they sell that solution. Wire up as many PowerWalls as you need for 90kWh of adult toy enjoyment.
http://www.teslamotors.com/pow...
Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
How about a 4-person electric car with solar panels on the roof that produces more energy than it uses by average per day use* ?
http://www.gizmag.com/stella-l...
A company in Australia is trying to make a car you can buy, even if it's still very expensive:
http://www.gizmag.com/immortus...
* in the Netherlands, which is in't the US. The average car owner in the US drivers more miles.
New things are always on the horizon
Why is this a story on slashdot anyway? Jalopnik, sure.... but this isn't news for nerds, and not really even news that matters. It's just a new model press release.
Speaking as a nerd I find it fascinating. Please remember that nerds aren't just computer programmers. Some of us are interested in technology that doesn't have a keyboard and mouse. Furthermore it DOES matter. Tesla is having some fascinating effects on the car industry and they are proving that all electric vehicles are a viable commercial technology. In case you hadn't noticed a lot of people here on slashdot are very interested in what Tesla is doing.
Where do you live where construction materials and labor add up to $350 per square foot for a shop? Nice homes in California can be built for $150 per square foot or less. I may be willing to drive a truck of materials there and build it for less.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Those retards crack me up. They spend all their money on a stupid car.... I, who makes probably 4 times what they make, drives a completely stock Prius
Meanwhile, they are screwing a hot chick, while you are masturbating in the shower.
Such over-design tends to spectacularly and expensively fail as cars get older or get into accidents.
Not really a relevant concern when you are talking about a $100K+ vehicle. A bit of exuberant design is expected to justify the price tag. I'm guessing you aren't really into the luxury car market much.
With multiple hinges, sensors, control units that all could potentially fail, you will end up with a used car without functioning doors. Who wants that? On other hand, simple hinge just keep working.
Yes but simple isn't necessarily interesting. Nobody buys a supercar because they want simple basic transportation. They want a bit of panache, otherwise there is no point.
So you think, "I will lease for 4 years, and will never see these problems". Well, resale value is affected by reliability, and as a result costs of these failures will be baked into your lease costs.
Buying a car like this is not a decision driven by expected resale value. You buy a car like this because you have the disposable income and you want to own one.
Telsa has been occupying the high end market segment, not the mainstream, think of them as a competitor to Porsche and Mercedes, not Ford. This can be seen in the reactionary vehicles being developed at these companies as they've lost market share to Tesla. What Tesla is going to do with the Model 3 is attempt to move from the high end to main stream. This would be like Porsche attempting to make a mainstream $30k vehicle that anyone could buy.
Time will tell if they succeed, personally I wouldn't bet against them.
I wouldn't consider it a SUV either. They put a hatchback body on a Model S platform. I guess they had to call it a SUV since most people view hatchbacks as being "cheap vehicles" and this certainly isn't cheap by any stretch. I also wonder how much rain/snow those rear doors will let in during the 6-7 seconds that Wired mentioned it will take for them to open.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
I'd rather have a car that goes from 0 to 60 in 6.4 seconds and goes 500 miles. 250 miles just doesn't cut in some parts of the US (out West).
It won't be long before it's not an either/or decision. Right now the state of the art is at 250 miles. I expect to see electric vehicles with a 500+ mile range in the next few years. The folks at Tesla have already been talking about vehicles with 700+ mile range. In the mean time there are hybrid cars with good 0-60 times on the market today which can go much further than 250 miles without refueling.
They've been planning on selling a cheaper model in 2-3 years for 2-3 years.
Those retards crack me up. They spend all their money on a stupid car that hogs gas and costs a shit ton in maintenance
And then they have lawn fertilizer delivered so their big-buck utility vehicles don't get messed up.
Let their current target market pay for the R&D and then we can all enjoy the technology at an affordable price.
Tesla has not seen a profit yet so it's more than acceptable for them to let the rich pay for the R&D.
Best cost model for this. This same cost model was applied to the original Model T.
But what I really want to know is...how many hogs can I carry in the back of this vehicle?
It's not new technology. Electric cars were available in the early 1900s.
Those early electrics used different technology.
Conventional vehicles can be fully refueled in a matter of minutes. Electric cars?
So? If your use case involves frequent long road trips then don't buy an electric. If your long trips are infrequent, just rent a gas car, or drive your family's other car. Or take a 30 minute break every 4 hours at a supercharger.
My wife has a Tesla, and for normal day-to-day use, it is more convenient than a gas car. It charges overnight in our garage, so the range almost never dips below 200 miles. We have taken a few road trips, and we plan ahead to locate superchargers near nice restaurants or a park where we can go for a 30 minute hike.
What's their incentive? Altruism? Not even the darling of the automotive world does things out of the goodness of their aluminum heart.
They can't even keep up with demand for the high-priced vehicles. Start offering a car at $35k right now and what happens? The waiting list would be out 3+ years, the resale value would be triple the retail cost, and nobody would be better off but the scummy middle-men who contribute nothing to the supply chain.
Toyota sells over 400k Camrys per year in the US. Tesla just recently sold its 75k'th Model S worldwide. Over 7 years. The capacity just isn't there to offer something that will generate that much demand.
If you cannot afford to own your own home, then chances are you are STILL not going to be able to afford even their $35K base model when it releases in a year or two.
Sure, $35K might seem "average" these days for new car pricing, but only to those who somehow enjoy a $500/month car payment, or enjoy being (fl)leased by other creative loans.
Depends on where you live. There are a few cities in the US where you could have $35K available to pay cash for the car, but $35K isn't enough for a down payment on a house.
My 8 year old VW GTI has a similar feature - albeit it doesn't have a flashy name. There are cabin filters which can keep out most everything - and if the car detects Automatically!!! air quality issues it turns on the air recirculation feature. Driving down a road through smoke the system will turn on - as well as dusty dirt roads. Even keeps out the smell of dead skunks (although system doesn't auto detect this air quality situation - requires Manual override). Problems those of us in the country deal with. To think I used to drive with the Windows Open!
Even putting the car in reverse engages this mode - because what - you're backing up through your exhaust (feature probably coded by the Clean Diesel group because they knew otherwise).
So Tesla is just good at the Reality Distortion Field and making you want something because it is shiny. And they built it. And Mr Musk is wearing a black t-shirt while saying "one more thing."
I can't wait for somebody to make an electric car I want - and can afford (or at least willing to afford). Quiet, Clean. Except for the burning ozone from the motors. :-P
Selling cars that cost as much as a small house is all well and good if your target market is 1%ers and boomers, but if you want to sell to the mass market you need something that's priced for a generation that will probably never be able to afford to own a home.
The base model will be less. And they are working on a $35000 model that will compete with BMW 3 series cars. This car is meant to compete in the market that buys Porsche Cayenne's and the like. The top turbo model of the Cayenne goes for over $130000. The base model of the Model X will likely go for $60000 or so.
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
F-150's not a good comparison. There are a wide range of configurations. You can get a new F-150 for sub $25k or you can spec them out up into the $60k+ range.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Well, it's definitely the best choice if you're into fatties. Dat torque.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
They also have agreements to supply electric powertrain components to other manufacturers. Don't know if that's actually been realized anywhere yet, but Tesla technology could very well wind up in cheaper vehicles not manufactured by Tesla.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
A 90 kWh battery that's small and light enough to put in a car is the new technology. Sorry if they're not reinventing the wheel enough to impress you.
Is that with one person in the car driving normally?
What about when you have 6 people in it towing a boat/quads/whatever and fully loaded with luggage? I'm betting it's a little less then 250 miles...
Visit the Arcade Restoration Workshop @ http://www.arcaderestoration.com
What I'd like is an electric alternative to a $10k car, with simple looks, 100 mi / 150 km range and no fancy shit like extreme acceleration and hazmat suits or hood-mounted laser-guided rockets, which tesla is looking forward to :|
I thought they said SUV, but when I clicked on the link it lead to a frelling car. How are you supposed to load a canoe or kayak on top with those gull wings?
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Selling cars that cost as much as a small house is all well and good if your target market is 1%ers and boomers, but if you want to sell to the mass market you need something that's priced for a generation that will probably never be able to afford to own a home.
Tesla's business model is explicitly to use the experience and funds generated by high end models to create less expensive models. Elon musk has repeated this over and over. Here is a blog post from 2006. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Where else is Tesla suppose to get the money and experience to create the car? Tesla is using the money of 1%ers (as you say) to fund development of cars for the 50%ers and people bitch about it like it's a bad thing.
So what's the gripe? They aren't proceeding fast enough? They are proceeding as fast as they can. They want to sell a shit ton of cars, do you think they are sandbagging? I get so sick of the "cut off your nose to spite your face" envy and jealousy.
If you think it's easy to make an inexpensive but compelling electric car from scratch, then start a freaking car company and do it. Or join GM, Ford, or some other company and help them to it.
Some privacy policy Slashdot.
You can't even get a small house where I live for only $133,000 and I'm no 1%'er.
One of the things that I realized when I moved here is that all real estate is priced ridiculously high in relation to the rest of the country.
However, as a professional, you're paid proportionally to that higher real estate cost, which means you have more absolute cash after home expenses than you would if you lived in a cheaper area.
And note: cars cost the same to operate no matter where you live (barring extreme environmental situations). There might be a markup at the dealership if you're dumb enough to buy one locally, but that's easily dealt with in this age of online car purchasing.
Teslas are still out of my comfort zone for buying, but they're a lot closer than they would be if I was doing the same job in East Buttfuck, Pennsylvania.
Point being... there are places where these cars are actually a lot more affordable than they might otherwise seem to be at first glance.
Just like with a gas/diesel car, the range decreases with load.
Except this isn't new technology, we've had hybrids and electrics for a while now.
That doesn't mean it isn't new technology. Granted it is an incremental improvement on existing technology but it is still new and represents what currently is state of the art in electric vehicles.
The first car. Ugly as fuck.
The second car... not too shabby, but you had better not own it anywhere where hail falls... ever.
Mercedes just did that with the CLA. And I bought one.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
What's the point of that? It's large, ugly as sin, and the concept only works assuming low use anyway. It's also not going to work as intended if you park it in a garage, inside parking spot, or in the shade.
I wonder if it's even practical in ideal conditions, because a car parked in the sun gets hot as hell, and batteries don't like that much.
It's much better to put those panels on your roof instead. That way you can go with cheaper and less efficient panels because there's less need to squeeze all the possible power in the small amount of room available, they'll be unobstructed as much as possible, collecting power at all times when there's any to collect, and it can be used for things besides the car.
Yep, the Model X pushed that back. You are right though though if you think the Model 3 will come out on time you don't know history. It will be 1-3 years late. Good news though if they get the factory build they can make the Powerwall till the car is ready. Honestly I think that is why they made the Powerwall to begin with.
How about a 4-person electric car with solar panels on the roof that produces more energy than it uses by average per day use* ?
Wake me up when it is a vehicle that is actually useful for anything practical. There isn't enough energy per square foot to power anything but an extremely light vehicle with no frills at all. Certainly nothing remotely comparable to the cars you and I drive and nothing you'd dare drive in inclement weather. It's a nice little project but nothing more.
A lot of people here on slashdot are interested in sex, too. That doesn't mean this is the place to discuss it.
It's been discussed plenty here on slashdot. Your userid is low enough you ought to know that. And just because you don't care about a particular topic doesn't mean others aren't interested. I could not care less about vintage video games or bitcoin but it clearly fascinates some folks here. Tesla automobiles are clearly a technology that is of interest to nerds and its pretty easy to argue that it matters.
Whenever you see absurd prices, you must remember some have absurd amounts of money. There are people today who could light a $100 bill on fire and every ten seconds use it to light the next one, all day, all year (about $300 million) and still have more money in the bank next year. And there's people living on less money in a year than I spent on the graphic cards in my gaming rig. The world's wealth is extremely unevenly distributed.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The definition of "new technology" is "combination of existing technologies to create a new product". Why is this so hard for slashdotters to understand?
Electric cars existed before Tesla. A mass-market electric car that is faster than most gas cars and which travels 200+ miles/charge did NOT exist before Tesla--therefore it is new technology.
Did you even open the web site? It has three rows of seating and it is advertised for 5000 lb towing. The slashdot blurb even says as much.
What's weird is the picture looks like what we call a 5-door sedan. Looks like a Prius too. But you can put stuff under the seats so maybe that's why it's a SUV.
> A lot of people here on slashdot are interested in sex, too.
citation required
Yes, we are ALL paying for it too. Through our taxes with all the massive subsidies. The only one making out in this deal is Elon Musk who just keeps getting richer.
Would you, Mr. Coward, change your opinion if you found out that the amount of the Federal subsidy is quickly offset by the taxes on just one new US factory worker job created by Tesla?
Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
The car has active suspension so it can raise and lower itself. My model S does that. It automatically lowers at highway speeds and if I tell it to raise up, it remembers the location so it will do that again the next time you hit that location.
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
And thus he is saving even more money, probably more than he saves driving the Prius.
I can see the fnords!
I hate to break the bad news: but skis are rather *long* pieces of sport equipment.
You can't store skis in any trunk.
You either need a ski rack on the roof (as most other cars have options for, including the Model S telsa, and including all the cars I've ever driven).
Or you need a rack on the back of the car (as some people do with bikes, and as the few illustration I've seen of Model X tend to show).
But if you want to put skis *inside* any car, you need to lay flat some seats, at which point you lose the possibility of bringing more people together.
(You'll be only 3 persons: 1 driver and 2 passengers, and the rest of the space occupied by the skiing equipment.
Have been doing that personally for years).
Would be easier if all the passengers are only interested in bringing snowboard (shorter) and/or snowshoes/ice skates/snow blades/big foots/etc. (definitely shorter). But I'm a ski person.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Or better yet a vehicle that can swap out the back end. You can have truck, a van, or an SUV, or a truck with multiple back beds that can be dropped off like a dump truck.
Remember: the money the government spends on tax credits really go to the company, not the buyer. Here's how you can tell:
A 2014 Leaf S, new, costs about $26,500 today. If you have a 2014 Leaf S that's used, with 20,000 miles on it, you can only sell it for about $11,000. Did it really depreciate by $15,500? No. It's that the new buyer gets a $7500 credit and a used-car buyer doesn't -- so the new car buyer will eat that difference in cost when he tries to sell it. Essentially, the moment he buys that $26,500, it's only worth $19,000 -- but that's okay, because he only paid $19,000 for it!
So the net transaction is that the buyer gives $19,000 to Nissan, Nissan gives a $19,000 car to the buyer, and the government gives Nissan $7500.
The primary ingredient, Lithium, is only about 4x as expensive as pure iron. It's not actually all that expensive. You're totally right, though, I'm sure that Tesla will die as soon as we have an economic downturn, like the one we've been in since the company launched.
I'm afraid that the limited market for the resources and the batteries will not make it feasible to ever mass produce cheap batteries.
So are most automotive executives, and most investors, which is why it hasn't happened. It takes someone with the vision *and* the capital to make a revolution happen.
Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
You and me both. Its the worst looking car I've ever seen, the front and back are just hideous.
Yep, nothing new in the electric market since the mid 1800's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... They came first, which means it's old news and no one should iteratively improve it, only look for new things.
Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
What about when you have 6 people in it towing a boat/quads/whatever and fully loaded with luggage?
Now there's a funny thing with electrical vehicle and towing:
- electric motors are relatively simple and not the most expensive part in a vehicle (I mean when compared to a fossil fuel engine). There's nothing preventing you in putting more into anything. That's why recent Model S, and the Model X (and countless of small half-DIY things-on-wheel on youtube) are dual-drive.
Gives you twice the power, with not much extra cost.
- batteries are expensive, and a bit heavy, but once you already have the technology nothing forbids you to install more of it (beside the cost).
Put these two together and you find something very interesting : it's not completely impossible to add power to the tow.
- put an extra motor on the tow's wheel axis (dead simple, not that expensive)
- add a small battery (that's going to be expensive... unless the battery is modular and is your house's powerwall the rest of the time).
Now you're able to tow more without losing that much mileage.
The same would be an engineering nightmare with thermal drives, but electric drive brings it into the realm of possibilities.
In fact, that's exactly what European high speed trains are doing (random example: latest German ICE trains, Swiss ICN, etc.)
They don't have a locomotive/motor coaches.
Instead electric motors are incorporated into all the carriages. (adding extra electric motors is cheap).
The results is enormously powerful trains that can go very fast or climb steep.
Maybe, over the next decade, as prices for battery (and electric drive technology in general) get progressively lower, we'll be able to see mobile home that don't lower the mileage of the SUV they're attached too, because they have their own drive and electricity storage.
(At a very expensive price first, but the electric SUVs like Model X aren't really targeting the average person's budget anyway).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
This isn't a smart buy on any level.
Firstly its not a real SUV its a soccer moms van. There's no way this thing is of any use off road at all as the ground clearance is about the same as a family car, and anyone that takes a road car that cost $145k off of the tarmac is insane.
I can't imagine there are many families that can afford 132-144k on what amounts to a soccer mom's van. with the money it takes to buy an X you can get a practical people mover as good as this car, also buy a 2 seat sports car that would be more fun to drive, and still put maybe $75k in the bank.
There is also no way the math works out on the savings from no-need-to-ever-buy-gas. Even assuming all the electricity you use to charge your X is free, the extra cost of this car over an equivalent gasoline vehicle would get you 52631 gallons of gas, (i.e. enough free gas for the entire life of about 10 cars).
Those doors look cool but its just more expensive shit to go wrong. Having previous experience of owning a vehicle with vertical doors and looking at the videos of how the X opens its doors I can honestly imagine more problems than normal doors especially in small or low spaces such as commonly found in parking garages.
We've had electronic digital computers for 74 years, but it'd be silly to try to claim that a modern laptop is not "new technology" as compared to Konrad Zuse's 1941 Z3.
Their $35k car will be, according to Tesla, around 20% smaller than a Model S. Considering that the Model S is an enormous car, I don't see how you could call the Model 3 a "tiny little toy".
The statistics of the people who currently buy electric cars is not relevant, because you're comparing the statistics of early adopters to the mass market.
Mercedes has several mainstream models (A class, B class)
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
That car is designed as a luxury car, it does 0-60miles in 3.2 sec. Gas powered cars with that kind of acceleration are all high end cars.
Now, I know pretty much nothing about engines (electric or not). That kind of acceleration might just be standard for electric engines.
F-150's not a good comparison. There are a wide range of configurations. You can get a new F-150 for sub $25k or you can spec them out up into the $60k+ range.
For many of them, the F150 is just as likely to be a tool as it is a means of personal transportation. It's not unheard of for a family farmer to have $1MM worth of land, property, and equipment....
They're trying to line up with the wide-spread availability of nuclear fusion to take advantage of the lower electricity costs.
My wife looked at the CLA, it is a nice car if you're in the market for a Mercedes.
It is still expensive compared to other options on the market.
Look at a nice Nissan Maxima by comparison, about the same price when nicely equipped, yet more power, more features, and more space.
What it is missing is that emblem on the front that says, "I'm special". :)
Do you mean fuel cell? If so, why do you claim that's more feasible than pure electric?
Lots of homes at that price point in San Bernardino, Barstow, Palmdale, and other places East of LA... Same in Eastern Ventura County in Santa Paula. Or central Ventura County in places like Ojai and Oxnard and even Ventura (the city). All within about an hour drive of Los Angeles.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Tesla's production capacity has been slowly ramping up. You're comparing figures over 7 years, and yet they went from building 20 cars per week in August 2012 to 1000 cars per week in 2015. They're going to continue ramping up production, and probably won't hit full production on the Model 3 until 2020 (they say 2018, but history shows they'll probably be a few years behind schedule).
It's likely that Tesla will be capacity constrained for a few years after the Model 3 is released, but I'm not sure how that's a problem. Eventually their production capacity will catch up.
The base model of the Model X will likely go for $60000 or so.
They've said that the Model X will sell for around $5,000 more than the equivalent Model S. The base Model S (70D) sells for $75,000. As such, we can expect the base Model X to sell for $80,000.
Because farmers need vehicles like that, and they make the money to be able to afford them. No one needs an Escalade.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
I can understand that. There is quite a bit of difference between an SUV's trunk and a truck's bed. I can hose out the back of my truck, I'd like to see someone try that with an SUV.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
There were photos of 6'1" tall journalists standing under the open doors with a few inches of clearance above that. Most normal people are not a few inches taller than 6'1". The Model X is around 20% larger than a Toyota Rav 4, and gains additional storage space from the lack of a gasoline engine or drive shaft.
You also won't find a budget SUV for $15k, so I'm not sure why you'd expect to find a luxury SUV for that price.
The Model X is larger in volume than your BMW X5. It's ~5" longer, ~6" wider, and ~5" shorter.
That's a damn hatchback. Crossover at best.
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
Because you can fit all gas stations with hydrogen fueling elements and you simply cannot put enough charging stations everywhere people live, work and travel.
You can't use the gas station model with battery electric for large numbers of people without putting a station on every street corner... they could not handle peak volume recharging.
If you think hard you can fond quite a lot of ways that every car being entirely battery powered just can't work. So if you want all cars to be electric only (and I do) you have to choose something else, and since hydrogen in one form or another has the greatest backing it's obviously the future.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'm guessing they don't just use that filter all the time because they don't want to wear out a (presumably) much more expensive filter?
Moms with kids diagnosed (or more likely presumed to be) asthmatic or allergic.
Followed by various adults diagnosed (or presumed to be) asthmatic or allergic, buying the car for themselves.
In both those cases that filter will be a major deciding factor for purchase and a much used feature.
Screw the doors. That "most ridiculous feature" will sell thousands of cars all on its own.
Hypochondria is a real thing. Particularly among the OCD-hand-washing crowd.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
How is this going to help when the bio-weapon I fear most is the result of my girlfriend's lactose intolerance, and its delivery system is ensconced in the passenger seat beside me?
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Doors that open like THIS
https://youtu.be/0oV4IVy8tvE?t=1m10s
[FrLz]
They do, they're called "Volkswagen".
And no, I'd never buy one.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Actually, charging stations extremely.abundent.
First, every home with a garage or carport is a charger.
secondly, there are over 10,000 public chargers just in America.
Tesla has over 200 SC in America alone which allow for driving around most of the lower 48. And by end of next year, they will have over 300 SC, and the entire lower 48 covered with free driving.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Technically my 1985 Jeep Scrambler is an SUV, and I hose the entire thing out on a regular basis. just pull all the drain plugs and go.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Actually, I would-be shocked if 1 worker pays all of that subsidy. And the fact is, that they don't. But that is OK. In 10 years, Tesla's taxes will have covered the subsidy. In addition, Tesla has forced all car companies to go pure EVs. By 2025, America will likely not import any more oil. That will be huge.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You do realise every post you make provides an example of the inability of your software to block spam. You are hurting your product with every post you make. You are also tainting the image of your software, as now most people think "APK" means "That idiot fool on Slashdot who posts massive rants, stalks people, and pretends to be other people who come to his defense". Seriously, please stop, for you.
Hydrogen is a bitch to transport and store. Battery swapping makes much more sense, and considering everyone with an electric car starts with a full tank every morning, most people won't even need to "refuel" away from home unless they drive further than the range of their car per day, and that range will only increase as improvements to the technology are made.
There will be more Tesla Model X sold at $120K than at $130K.
That is not necessarily true. While that is normally true for most markets there are exceptions. I explain below.
As such, the expense of putting lambo doors on one will price someone out of buying it.
That argument doesn't always work when you are talking about high end luxury cars. I used to be in the business back when I owned an auction company. High end car markets are more like selling artwork than anything else. Utility is NOT the primary concern among buyers of these vehicles. This is not a purchase being made for practical reasons. Without the fancy doors it is entirely possible that they would actually sell less cars overall than if they made it simpler and lowered the price a bit. People buy these vehicles for many of the same sorts of reasons people buy expensive artwork. Fun, conspicuous consumption, investment, etc. While the Model X has a fair amount of utility the buying equation is more complicated than for a $30K family sedan. The difference in price between a car selling for $120K versus $130K is relatively inconsequential for buyers interested in products at that price point. Not to say it doesn't matter at all but the usual expectations don't necessarily hold.
No, you can't. Storing hydrogen requires cryogenic equipment, which are expensive. And since hydrogen is one of the most flammable substances known, any kind of equipment fault will cause the whole station to go up like Hindenburg, which means the maintenance budget will go through the roof.
Of course you can. All it takes is a meter and a mains connection. Colder climates already feature such infrastructure in parking lots for the engine/interior pre-warmer.
Main reloading will be done at night, at your own home. The gas station model exists because our current fuel can't be transferred through wires like electricity can.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
You just summarised why I will never buy a Tesla. I don't want my money to go to the US.
Ok, but your ambivalent attitude is just killing Tesla's share price. If Elon asks you nicely, would you at least buy a Tesla tote bag?
It's guaranteed to fit in your sedan built in WhoCaresistan.
Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
You get downmodded by actual mods because you are offtopic. What does your rant have to do with Tesla unveiling a new vehicle? Is Tesla running hosts files on their onboard computers now?
People don't need to sockpuppet to downmod you, you earn them yourself by being massively offtopic, stalking, posting things that make no sense, and posting agreeing with yourself. No one is on a crusade to downmod you.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
What's more, every nifty gadget we have these days began life as a product only affordable by "rich douchebags", as the GP puts it. GPS, cell phones, TVs, probably every single car feature that is now standard was once a high-priced optional.
Things, especially electronics, have never popped into existence as affordable by the middle class. It's only after economy of scale kicks in and R&D is somewhat recovered that the prices drop. So these "rich douchebags" are not only shifting money towards those various US things, but they are also beta-testing the product for a premium price before it reaches us proletariat.
I can't wait to get one of these, now I just need to sell everything I have and move into my Model X.
Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?
Have you ever studied the history of industrial civilization ???
Pretty much EVERY new type of technology first comes to the market as a rich man's toy. As scale goes up, manufacturing investment pays off, processes get streamlined, you know, boring industrial engineering / economics things, price comes down.
Before the Ford Model T all cars were rich people's toys.
Then big cars were only affordable to the rich.
Then hybrids were only affordable to the upper middle class.
Although the fully loaded Tesla Model S is still very expensive, there is a 100% difference between the most basic and the top of the line Model S.
In 10-15 years I expect a Tesla Model S / X to sell for US$ 50k corrected for inflation.
The most expensive component is the battery pack, Li Ion prices will drop by half over a decade.
The other big ticket item is the electric motor, once Tesla is buying a million a yr (vs current less than 100k / yr) prices will drop substantially too.
And the more modest Tesla Model III should go for US$ 40k before incentives in 2018/2019. Should be a much better car than the Nissan LEAF, better performance, better range, at the same price.
Well that's better than valve time...
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Selling supercars like this produces some money, if you really want to get funding for development come up with an electric van or something for UPS or businesses that have tons of working vehicles.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
The point is to push the state of art and win the competition:
http://www.worldsolarchallenge... (in this case the more practical cruiser class)
Also to show how 'close' we are to having productions cars with solar or at least show how things are progressing.
It's a step up from this:
http://images2.fanpop.com/imag...
It's like F1 is trying to push the state of the art. Obviously F1 cars are not for normal production use either.
New things are always on the horizon
Actually, I would-be shocked if 1 worker pays all of that subsidy. And the fact is, that they don't. But that is OK. In 10 years, Tesla's taxes will have covered the subsidy. In addition, Tesla has forced all car companies to go pure EVs. By 2025, America will likely not import any more oil. That will be huge.
1. I was referring to the retail buyer tax credit rebate, I did not make that clear, but indeed when you take in the economic activity of one Tesla hire, the taxes to the Federal Government cover it.
2. US has already been a net oil exporter, as recently as 2011. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/...
But I am with you generally on the oil dependency regardless.
Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
Plenty of companies sell $200,000 cars all day long. One percent of the US population is over 3 million people. Surely one percent of THEM might want a Tesla?
Sorry, disaffected hipster, but these cars aren't targeted at you.
What's more, every nifty gadget we have these days began life as a product only affordable by "rich douchebags", as the GP puts it. GPS, cell phones, TVs, probably every single car feature that is now standard was once a high-priced optional.
Things, especially electronics, have never popped into existence as affordable by the middle class. It's only after economy of scale kicks in and R&D is somewhat recovered that the prices drop. So these "rich douchebags" are not only shifting money towards those various US things, but they are also beta-testing the product for a premium price before it reaches us proletariat.
Well said. Someone else pointed out the original 50" flat screen TVs were initially around $20,000. Now I can get one from NewEgg for about $500-ish.
Thanks rich douche-class, you are the on-ramp to economies-of-scale; you're the reason I can watch WWF in the big screen glory of 4k, for way less than $4k.
Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
You can do the same thing in the opposite direction. The subsidy stays with the car. The first buyer gets a $26,000 car for $19,000, and the second buyer gets a $19,000 car for $11,000. The second buyer knows he isn't getting the subsidy, so he knows to pay $7000 less than what he thinks the car is actually worth. You are mistaking price for value.
I wonder if it's even practical in ideal conditions, because a car parked in the sun gets hot as hell, and batteries don't like that much.
Play that back in your mind. A car, with its roof full of sun sucking solar panels, is going to get "hot as hell" heat up because . . .
In terms of volume, yes. The point is that it's not smaller than the X5.
But that is likely changing soon. After they get this built: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_1
Batteries will be 30% cheaper (so they say). That might make their lower end cars (35K and 50K, drop to 25k? and 35k?, respectively.) drop enough to start competing with cars like the Toyota Camry.
Because modern solar panels are just 20% efficient, which means you still get 80% of the heat. And the parts not covered by panels keep performing just like in any other car, so you can expect this thing to be what, 10% cooler in the best case?
It could run the AC, but then I suspect it'd get much less charging done.
being a net exporter is not the same thing as not importing oil. I have no doubt that Tesla will force other car makers to move to electric which will drop demand for gas rather quickly. Interestingly, our rail system is in the process of moving off diesel and over to nat gas. And as long as O does not allow nat gas exports, then it should remain cheap here and trains, and ideally, semis will move that way.
And actually, I was just teasing on the 1 worker thing. Sorry if you misunderstood that .
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.