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EFF: the Final Leaked TPP Text Is All That We Feared (eff.org)

An anonymous reader writes: Wikileaks has released the finalized Intellectual Property text of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), which international negotiators agreed upon a few days ago. Unfortunately, it contains many of the consumer-hostile provisions that so many organizations spoke out against beforehand. This includes the extension of the copyright term to life plus 70 years, and a ban on the circumvention of DRM. The EFF says, "If you dig deeper, you'll notice that all of the provisions that recognize the rights of the public are non-binding, whereas almost everything that benefits rightsholders is binding. That paragraph on the public domain, for example, used to be much stronger in the first leaked draft, with specific obligations to identify, preserve and promote access to public domain material. All of that has now been lost in favor of a feeble, feel-good platitude that imposes no concrete obligations on the TPP parties whatsoever." The EFF walks us through all the other awful provisions as well — it's quite a lengthy analysis.

399 comments

  1. Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Before it lays eggs!

    1. Re:Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Too late. Obummer and his supporters will label you as a racist for opposing this massive handout to Hollywood.

    2. Re:Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Racist!

    3. Re: Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Towards spiders..?

    4. Re:Kill it with fire! by Aurien · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Funny, I don't see Republican's going against this new trade deal. Last I checked they have majority in both houses. They could vote no and stop this, but they'll all vote yes. But yeah, it's all Obama's fault right? Republican's just have to vote yes right?

    5. Re:Kill it with fire! by Njorthbiatr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh, it's never too late.

      Voltaire was right about assassinations. Seems like we need a system to keep the politicians in line.

    6. Re:Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it is all his fault. His Administration came up with the treaty.

    7. Re:Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Treaty has been in the works for like 10 years. It's fair to blame Obama though, because the majority was under him, but still. Rest assured that this will pass, and it doesn't matter who is elected.

    8. Re:Kill it with fire! by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Voltaire was right about assassinations.

      Where were you when Reagan was president? Then it might have made a difference. Today? It's too late, baby.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:Kill it with fire! by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 4, Informative

      When it comes to treaties, the house of senate has to approve it, whereas the house of represenatives has no say in it.

    10. Re: Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Voting doesn't matter. According to ontheissues.org my top candidate in only 55% in agreement with me. Pathetic. We have no choice.

    11. Re:Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I saw that a mexican drug cartel leader has posted a 100 mil bounty on Trump.

    12. Re:Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut your mouth. It's still Bush's fault. Just have to say so about 50 times and everyone will believe you.

    13. Re:Kill it with fire! by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Funny, I don't see Republican's going against this new trade deal. Last I checked they have majority in both houses. They could vote no and stop this, but they'll all vote yes. But yeah, it's all Obama's fault right? Republican's just have to vote yes right?

      Shhhhhhhh, don't get all "facty" and mess up his "Democrats are bad" narrative.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    14. Re:Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bury your head back in the sand, tool.

    15. Re:Kill it with fire! by mrbester · · Score: 2

      "John Hinckley Jr used ASSASSINATION!

      It wasn't very successful."

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    16. Re:Kill it with fire! by umghhh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A treaty that is so secret that even those that have to vote to approve it, cannot read nor discuss it freely - wow that is a new level of democratic development. I thought at least Muricans who are normally confused but dislike secret courts would do something but I guess life is too good. Maybe oligarchy is the best system after all.
      Let us see what EU will do with TTIP - protests are not that relevant for politicians doing what they can do best i.e. selling themselves to highest the bidder but there will be no heavy protests in EU. Peope here are quite busy with watching how silly Germans really are so TTIP may get approved without much fuss. Let us have cheese out of crude oil - it is good for you! Milo Minderbinder was right - people are stupid and tasteless idiots and they will eat soap if they are told it is tasty, maybe even asking for more.

    17. Re:Kill it with fire! by pellik · · Score: 3, Funny

      I saw that too. Didn't Trump list that among his assets in how he justified his claim that he's a billionaire? "head - 100M"

    18. Re:Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was Hillary Crowning achievement, she said...until it wasn't

    19. Re:Kill it with fire! by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

      Except that a short time back, Congress passed a law that made it so that the TPP (as has been the case with many other trade agreements) only needs a simple majority in both Houses of Congress and the President's signature to become law. This is viewed as easier than getting the required 2/3s of the Senate to concur as would be required for a true treaty.

      Interestingly enough, this suggests to me that getting rid of this "treaty" is as simple as a law passed by both Houses of Congress and signed by the President...without any negotiation with anyone. Unlike a treaty which is technically more difficult.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    20. Re:Kill it with fire! by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      That quote actually came from a German diplomat citing a Russian describing Russia. Given Russia's history, such a system doesn't seem to work too well in practice.

    21. Re: Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nay. As I understand it, there is NO escape clause. It is as binding as the constitution (and maybe even above it) and there is no way out.

      This is a trap we will die inside.

      But if peeps wake up and get upset and get vocal maybe it will not pass the up/down vote. It's narrow now and it's still possible to beat.

    22. Re:Kill it with fire! by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      That would be unconstitutional then; the constitution specifically says that the Senate must approve it before the president can sign and ratify it.

    23. Re:Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Funny, I don't see Republican's going against this new trade deal."

      That's because it was made by the US.

      Wikileaks

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABDiHspTJww&feature=youtu.be

      The Centre for Investigative Journalism

      http://www.tcij.org

    24. Re: Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is nothing above the Constitution, not even a treaty.

    25. Re:Kill it with fire! by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Funny, I don't see Republican's going against this new trade deal. Last I checked they have majority in both houses. They could vote no and stop this, but they'll all vote yes. But yeah, it's all Obama's fault right? Republican's just have to vote yes right?

      Well, to be fair we do kind of yell at them when they vote no - we call them the obstructionist party.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    26. Re: Kill it with fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The current Republican "leadership" are spineless cowards. They wouldn't have the balls to put up a fight unless it meant money in their pockets.

    27. Re:Kill it with fire! by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

      Does that really matter, in post-constitutional America?

      Survey says: Nope!

      --
      There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
    28. Re:Kill it with fire! by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      It takes a 2/3 supermajority of the U.S. Senate to ratify a treaty (the House of Representatives isn't directly involved). The Republicans have 54 of the 100 seats in the Senate right now, which is to say, they don't have the numbers to ratify it on their own. If the treaty goes through, both sides will be at fault, because it cannot be ratified without bipartisan support from both sides.

      The fact is, both parties want the treaty for different reasons since they're coming at it from different angles. The Republicans want it so that they can please their corporate overlords. In contrast, the Democrats want it so that they can please their corporate overlords.

      Oh. Uhh. Wait a sec...

  2. two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    were fucked.

    1. Re:two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We're" is a contraction word and hence what you said is in fact three words. Now get off my lawn, dear Sir.

    2. Re:two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obummer did promise change. It was just the change of having Hollywood's cock planted firmly in everyone's asses.

    3. Re:two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The apostrophe must have been copyrighted and was removed by the ISP inline. Grammar Nazi.

    4. Re:two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, there was no colon or other punctuation in the subject line, and the GP clearly wrote "were" not "we're". Thus the GP's message reads "two words were fucked". How this occurred is left as an exercise for the reader.

    5. Re: two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cows moo

    6. Re:two words by Gadget27 · · Score: 1

      Which ones?

  3. US to be Blamed by rtb61 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The most ignorant thing about pushing all this in the current global climate with the contortionists US twisting with regard to Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorist/Rebels, everyone will blame America and Americans, everything bad in the TPP and it's ugly sibling TTIP will be blamed on American corporations and sales will suffer accordingly. Want your citizens and country to maintain any semblance of freedom boycott Large US Corporations (small ones run by real Americans apparently are fine, so oddly enough help America rebuild Main Street and protect you own country by working together globally to gut Wall Street).

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    1. Re:US to be Blamed by arbiter1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Biggest ones to blame is the Obama admin

    2. Re:US to be Blamed by amiga3D · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This kind of shit always has big bipartisan support. The whores from both parties will put away the facade and do the bidding of their masters.

    3. Re:US to be Blamed by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 2

      Yes because that's the election reality they're living in. But only one side is trying to take the shackles off.

    4. Re:US to be Blamed by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      small ones run by real Americans apparently are fine

      What the fuck is a "real American"? Is it the Canadian-born son of a Cuban refugee who's running for President? Is it the naturalized Iraqi-American who owns a convenience store? How about an Australian who owns some of the most powerful media outlets in the US along with a Saudi prince?

      Please enlighten us.

      I'm all for gutting Wall Street, but when I hear that kind of populism paired up with phrases like "real American" I kind of get the willies.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> small ones run by real Americans apparently are fine

      > What the fuck is a "real American"?

      It is one member of several ethnic groups living since long ago in the USA and not being recent immigrants.

      They're collectively called "Red Skins", I believe.

    6. Re:US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The referendum, officially known as Proposition 49, asks citizens to show their approval for “an amendment or amendments to the United States Constitutionto allow the full regulation or limitation of campaign contributions and spending.”

      The ballot measure neglects to mention the First Amendment specifically, or otherwise to indicate to voters that it is proposing fundamentally altering the freedom of speech, as interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court.

      Yeah... how you think that's going to turn out? There is plenty of power to create laws to more specifically deny/manage such campaign contributions, but they want to just go for the throat and change the constitution.

      IMO, most of the problems in Washington come from the public's willingness to allow their so-called leaders to continually lie to them. If their leaders are wrong, it's ok, they were just momentarily stupid. Or inexperienced. Or ignorant. But it's ok because they are still your leaders, and are thus infallible, so you need to immediately forget such grievances. Just gotta plain love Hillary.

    7. Re:US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. How do you fix a democracy where a substantial portion of the population opts to prove they're smart by voting for people promising to make their lives worse? As long as GOP voters continue to vote for such asinine politicians, it's going to be impossible for anything to change.

      The Democrats are bad enough, but they still have to court conservative votes in most part of the country in statewide races or for the Presidency.

    8. Re:US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take it to mean a real person, citizen of the USA, subject to laws that the majority are expected to abide by, not some reptilian globalist posing as an "American".

    9. Re:US to be Blamed by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is plenty of power to create laws to more specifically deny/manage such campaign contributions, but they want to just go for the throat and change the constitution.

      You' haven't been paying attention. Since the Citizens United ruling, such laws as you describe would violate the First Amendment. That's why getting money out of politics requires a new amendment.

    10. Re:US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The word bipartisan means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.

    11. Re:US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would that be ignorant and not accurate?

    12. Re:US to be Blamed by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Fuck that. Unless they evolved from the South American monkeys, they are as much of an immigrant as the rest of us.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    13. Re:US to be Blamed by KGIII · · Score: 1

      McCarthyism all over again - just with a new phrase and all the jingoisms of before. I was born not long after and grew up during the Cold War. I don't have much to add except to say that it is possible to view the cycles, concentric circles - if you would rather, and I think the most important thing is that I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised at all.

      What's funny is the assumptions that people make. One of my favorites is seeing those who insist that acquisition of wealth means a lack of ethics. When you point out the faults in that logic you get, "Well, you're one of the good ones then." I can't help but feel that those are so very similar to the same things they used to say about black people. "Oh, don't mind Nigger Jim. He's one of the good ones."

      *sighs*

      Would that I could but, truth told, I've no answers that don't depend on people doing the right thing. There's as little chance of that happening as can be expected. The idiocy is found at both ends of the political spectrum and across many other planes as well. Sometimes I wonder if a benevolent dictatorship might actually be the answer. Again, I've no words of wisdom nor a possible, realistic, solution. Just because I don't know how to fix it doesn't mean I can't recognize that there is a problem.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    14. Re:US to be Blamed by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      Oh sure, but if you look at it the Democrats have always been sucking the Entertainment Industry's cock more than the Republicans have. Republicans deregulate the banking industry, Democrats push copyright extensions. Still looking for a party that wants to regulate the banking industry and shorten copyright duration. *shrug*.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    15. Re: US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will not need to buy another movie, game, song or anything with copyright in my entire life. 70 years is just fuckong insane.

    16. Re:US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you vote for either party you are part of the problem. Stop spreading that "lesser evil" bullshit, we need new blood in the politics.

    17. Re: US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Real American means a conservative white person.

    18. Re:US to be Blamed by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      The real problem is it's all a scam. They take issues like affirmative action, abortion, gay rights and other things that the population is divided on and use these things to conquer us. We have two sides that are really just one side but they show two faces. The only time they come together is for things like the TPP. It's not like they care about abortion or gay rights one way or another, it's just smoke and mirrors to keep the populace distracted from the way they're enslaving us. President Obama got elected and even though I didn't vote for him I remember thinking, "well at least we'll get rid of the fucking Patriot Act." No, that didn't happen. Because he really doesn't give a shit about it despite what he said when running for election. Some politicians may actually believe in something they espouse and when they do it throws a wrench in things but in the end the machine always gets what it wants.

    19. Re:US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and do the bidding of their masters

      The jews?

    20. Re:US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you vote for either party you are part of the problem. Stop spreading that "lesser evil" bullshit, we need new blood in the politics.

      Until there is spilled blood in politics, there won't be any new blood in politics. It's all the same stuff.

      Give up, at the very least, stop waiting around for somebody else to fix your problem. Make your platform and run. Hell, maybe I'll even vote for ya.

    21. Re: US to be Blamed by macsimcon · · Score: 2

      That's just not true. Have a look at Article III, Section 2. Congress can pass laws that cannot be decided by the Supreme Court.

      If Congress passes law which reads "money is property, not speech, and the Supreme Court may not review this law" and the President signs it, that's it. There's nothing Roberts and his cabal of right-wing traitors can do about it.

    22. Re:US to be Blamed by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 2

      This kind of shit always has big bipartisan support.

      Maybe this "shit" has bipartisan support. But Obama ran on a platform, and was elected, to end this "shit", and as a liberal, progressive, biracial constitutional law professor and community organizer, he had about the best possible credentials for the job.

      The lesson to be learned is not that America needs an even better leader than Obama or that Obama was insufficiently liberal/progressive/socialist. The lesson to be learned is that you can't fix crony capitalism and corruption by electing strong leaders that pass laws that end up just being more handouts to lobbies and special interests. The only way to address "this kind of shit" is to limit the power of government.

    23. Re:US to be Blamed by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Yes, because the solution to political lies and distortions is to ensure that only government-approved corporate media have the right to talk politics! Good going, Democrats!

    24. Re: US to be Blamed by macsimcon · · Score: 1

      I have a realistic solution.

      Were John Roberts to leave the Court, Obama would appoint another Kagan or non-conservative as Chief.

      At that point, the Court is 5-4 in favor of liberals, AND the Chief sets the agenda and the calendar.

      We could reverse Citizens United, which stops corrupting politics with bribes, and get people into Congress who would actually improve the lives of Americans.

      Now, who wants to volunteer to help Roberts retire?

    25. Re:US to be Blamed by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Your link mentions that Hillary wants to amend the First Amendment to be more to her liking...

      Yeah, changing the Bill of Rights to restrict the Rights granted will work out really well. I can't wait....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    26. Re:US to be Blamed by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Is it the Canadian-born son of a Cuban refugee who's running for President?

      Canadian-born son of a Cuban refugee isn't allowed to run for President. Not "natural born".

      Unless, of course, the Cuban refugee was in the USA legally long enough to become a citizen.

      Though if Mom was an American citizen, then the courts will have sooooo much fun sorting things out.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    27. Re: US to be Blamed by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

      If Congress passes law which reads "money is property, not speech,...

      Of course they could, but how likely do you think it is that Congress will vote to lessen the amount of money they receive? For instance, I'm aware of times when they voted to increase their own salaries, but I can't remember a single time they voted to decrease their salaries.

    28. Re:US to be Blamed by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      I'm all for that but we're the minority. My political leanings are mostly conservative but all the supposed conservatives elected in the last few decades want to grow government. They're fake. Under conservatives and liberals alike the damn monster just gets bigger and hungrier. Bush Junior grew the damn government like never before. He was a disaster and the one that followed him has continued driving the car over the cliff with the pedal to the metal. And they wonder why Trump is leading.

    29. Re: US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Inflation decreases all salaries. Not increasing salaries is really the same thing as decreasing them.

    30. Re: US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My honest belief is that just my internet search history disqualifies me from running for office. How good are you at ignoring / explaining your past?

    31. Re:US to be Blamed by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Under conservatives and liberals alike the damn monster just gets bigger and hungrier. Bush Junior grew the damn government like never before. He was a disaster and the one that followed him has continued driving the car over the cliff with the pedal to the metal.

      Yes, I agree with both statements. I think partisan voting is pointless; you have to look at each candidate and the context in which they operate. I think the best we can hope for is making the least bad choice among a bunch of idiots. The thing about federal power is that it tends to erode on its own anyway with new technologies and growth; all we really need is someone who is unable to keep up. From that point of view, senile/incompetent relics like Sanders and Carson may well be good choices...

    32. Re:US to be Blamed by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      Part of the problem is that people who don't wan the job are the ones most qualified to have it. We should have a draft, like jury duty. Just randomly select people for Washington duty. You get it, you HAVE to go to Washington and run the joint for 4 years. Then you get kicked out and won't get selected again. My reasoning for why this would work is that at the moment we could pick people randomly from a phone book and it would work better than what we have. Career politicians interested only in money and power beholden to huge corporations are a big part of the problem. My system would eliminate that. And 99% of Americans would probably be OK with it just for the salary you'd be pulling while you do it (170-230K a year even if you're in the rabble in the House of Representatives.)

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    33. Re:US to be Blamed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      small ones run by real Americans apparently are fine

      What the fuck is a "real American"? Is it the Canadian-born son of a Cuban refugee who's running for President? Is it the naturalized Iraqi-American who owns a convenience store? How about an Australian who owns some of the most powerful media outlets in the US along with a Saudi prince?

      Please enlighten us.

      I'm all for gutting Wall Street, but when I hear that kind of populism paired up with phrases like "real American" I kind of get the willies.

      your all right about WALL STREET,it's nothing but gambling! what a bunch of hypocrites, they make online gambling illegal, but allow the thing we all call, WALL STREET! boot em all out, the UN, Congress, the Senate, all the politicians, all the judges, all the Lawyers, aka-liars. shut down the CIA, FBI, IRS, ATF, board of ED! Create term limits on all of GOV., not only the POTUS. now do some of that, if not all and youll have a great start at what this great nation is all about. the rights of the one, is way more important then the rights of the many. words to live by!

  4. Your laws ignore my rights by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I consider it well inside my rights to ignore your laws.

    In less martial words, issuing laws that contravene the consensus of the population is dangerous. Laws are upheld mostly because people consider them good, not because they are being enforce. Look around you and ponder which laws are upheld (in general) and which one are flauntingly broken. Do you see people go on murdering sprees, bank robberies or even do some minor shit like pushing grannies out of the way? No. Why? Not because they're forbidden, but because they go against the "general moral consensus", for a lack of a better term. People in general consider this "wrong". Yes, they are also illegal, but that doesn't matter too much.

    On the other hand, people of all times have broken laws without remorse if those laws were considered unjust. From speeding to copyright to drugs, all covered by laws with fines and punishment that are in no remotely sensibly proportion to the crime involved, laws being ignored and broken routinely by people you would otherwise consider upstanding, moral and law abiding.

    The actual danger here is in the view people get on laws in general.

    If you need an example for this, look no further than the former Communist Bloc. People in there quickly noticed that the laws are not there to protect them from "bad people", but to protect the state against them. Which in turn led to a corruption without parallel, because the average citizen's attitude was "why bother giving a shit about the state if it doesn't give one about me?".

    And we can have that too. If we insist in installing more and more laws that work against our population. People already don't ask what "they can do for their country" anymore. Oppression and trying to enforce even more ridiculously anti-population laws will only increase resistance to them, to the point where people will actually resent and oppose the state as much as people in the former East Bloc did resent and oppose their state.

    Ok, we cannot flee to a west. There is none.

    But there's always necks to be severed.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, brother, and the guides shall be lubricated with the blood of the .1% when the time comes.

    2. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course, we theoretically have the option to complain to our elected representatives or vote them out of office, something not possible in the former Soviet Bloc. The snag is that most people don't bother doing this, and most probably never even heard of this issue. Those that do care about the issue may be saying "meh, I'll just pirate things like I always do" which is no help at all.

    3. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's not about making laws that are actually enforced on a daily basis. It's about making laws that can be used when it suits the people in power. When everyone is essentially a criminal, it can be used when needed as a tool to achieve greater goals.

    4. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But SystemD boots Faster!

    5. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How cute. You actually think you have political power.

      I'm sure the megacorps and .1 percenters are quaking in their boots at your impotent threat.

    6. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've watched 3 different people in different settings go off about this to others. They have half the facts and half the fallacy along with all the hyperbole.

      The problem is a communications problem. It gets so technical that most people gloss over and ignore it until something strike their ears but then they only catch half. Most people are like the GP and when they attempt to communicate about it, they end up looking like a loon freshly dipped in dingbat shit and people ignore them again.

      What is needed is a cartoonish but reasonably well articulated summery of the situation and most people would grab their pitchforks and join the mob. I don't see that happening. Probably because they have been invested so long that it in and of itself seems engagingly ridiculous.

    7. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are Federal agents deporting immigrants back to Mexico, who are only trying to earn an honest living here?

      I hope that's an example of the type of government behavior you abhore.

    8. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people haven't heard of it because IT'S FUCKING SECRET! If they don't give me a chance for any input into copyright laws beforehand, I won't have any respect for those laws afterwards.

    9. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by swm · · Score: 5, Informative

      Economix explains the Trans-Pacific Partnership
      http://economixcomix.com/home/...

    10. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2

      I consider it well inside my rights to ignore your laws.

      That's a great theory, until your home is raided by FBI and IRS agents, whose guns are harder to ignore.

    11. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What's that got to do with it?

      But yes, immigrants will consider laws against immigration unjust and hence break them. Whether I consider them good or not does not matter simply because they don't really apply to me. It's like abortion laws, how I perceive them should be irrelevant considering that they do not apply to me.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you haven't read it, you might enjoy Ronald Dworkin's "Law's Empire" ... from the excerpt

      Dworkin... insists that the most fundamental point of law is not to report consensus or provide efficient means to social goals, but to answer the requirement that a political community act in a coherent and principled manner toward all its members.

    13. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      When you are already in a prison, being locked up only means free meals.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've noticed that Slashdotters like to wax eloquent about so-called freedoms that align with their own interests, and whine like babies about consequences of the Internet and globalization that oppose their interests. Immigration, outsourcing of IT jobs, and all the early IT education initiatives that Theodp keeps posting about are prime examples of the latter.

    15. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by s.petry · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You don't see it happening because very few people know about it. Do you think that the lack of media coverage is accidental? Oh I know, Ben Carson the Republican candidate said something loony about having to attack a gunman on a spree just to kill, so that has to take all 7 "News" stations days to investigate and discuss. TPPIP? Not a word could be heard on any of those stations about that one. Amazingly, the candidates are not discussing it or being quoted on that one either.

      Oh but Donal Trump this and that, and of course everyone is just mean to Hillary because in all the time she served as Secretary of State she never ever sent or received even 1 classified email.

      The game is rigged pretty heavily today. People would probably shit themselves if they really know how much they are being manipulated. But hell, Facebook does not show anything too important in their feeds, and Facebook taking over control of that was accidental too.

      That rant is not really directed at you. It is directed at those who are now wearing that same tin-foil hat they accused others of wearing. I hope it fits them well.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    16. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " well articulated summery "

      Hmm, when calling for others to be articulate, it pays to spell properly. That would be:

      "well-articulated summary"

    17. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our government... teaches the whole people by its example. If the government becomes the lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy.

        - Justice Louis D. Brandeis

    18. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've started to think the same way. Kind of sad that the highest known form of life has been reduced to this.

    19. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I think I was clear that I wasn't up for the job.

      Perhaps you could add something constructive to the conversation instead of repeating the obvious in some attempt to make yourself feel better about yourself or something?

    20. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reminder: Slashdotters are writing this about the possibility they may face fines for copying One Direction videos in 100 years time.

    21. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You don't see it happening because very few people know about it. Do you think that the lack of media coverage is accidental? Oh I know, Ben Carson the Republican candidate said something loony about having to attack a gunman on a spree just to kill, so that has to take all 7 "News" stations days to investigate and discuss. TPPIP? Not a word could be heard on any of those stations about that one. Amazingly, the candidates are not discussing it or being quoted on that one either.

      First, Carson's comment is about as loony as calling the police and expecting them to save you. What he said was if you are about to die, try to save others. It's no different than after 9/11 when public discussion went from advising people to stay calm and follow orders/cooperate when an airplane is hijacked to assume you will be dead so take risks and save others. If you cannot understand that, you might have a serious problem.

      Next, there is no or little media coverage because until recently there was nothing to cover outside of speculation. It's all been drafts leaked to the public via questionable sources and as we found out, a lot is different. I suspect we will end up continuing with little coverage because the IP provisions benefit the news corporations greatly.

      Oh but Donal Trump this and that, and of course everyone is just mean to Hillary because in all the time she served as Secretary of State she never ever sent or received even 1 classified email.

      That is an outright lie.
      http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09...

      http://www.washingtontimes.com...

      The game is rigged pretty heavily today. People would probably shit themselves if they really know how much they are being manipulated. But hell, Facebook does not show anything too important in their feeds, and Facebook taking over control of that was accidental too.

      Yup and you demonstrated my point with your political half assery too. Whenever someone talks about this subject, they have half the facts and half the fallacy along with all the hyperbole.

      That rant is not really directed at you. It is directed at those who are now wearing that same tin-foil hat they accused others of wearing. I hope it fits them well.

      This happens more often than most of us are willing to realize. Early warnings of lost jobs came about with NAFTA, Crazies like Glenn Beck was warning of ISIS and the Caliphate long before it was mainstream. Hell, even the horrors of Nazi Germany were foretold before the world was shocked at what we found at the end of WWII. Escaped Jews were trying to get the US involved long before Pearl Harbor pushed us over the edge. I guess for some, they just have to reach out and touch the hot stove in order to understand what your warning about the stove being hot really means.

    22. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by nullchar · · Score: 1

      I wonder what our forefathers would say about the current state of "democracy" which has the 0.1% in charge, but also having the plebes believe they have a voice. It would probably smell like tyranny to them, but would shiny things distract them like it does the rest of us?

    23. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by symbolic · · Score: 1

      > or vote them out of office

      Indeed - I think it will be an interesting time when we see a) how many of our elected representatives vote in favor of this junk, and b) how many of them are still in office after the next election.

    24. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Don't look forwards to it. It *MAY* be better afterwards...eventually...but expect to be a part of the bloodbath while it's happening.

      It would be better to avoid that event, but the government's behavior is making that look increasingly unlikely.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    25. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      and in the usa free doctors

    26. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I have complained to my representative. If you haven't, please do so now.

      OTOH, don't expect it to make any difference. I expect my representative to vote in the way I would approve of, but I expect that would have happened even without my comment. I don't expect either of my senators to be as virtuous. Only one of them to I give any chance. The other would be willing to lie about the position taken to get my support (I've caught that happening before), but wouldn't actually change position.

      So what government should be tried next time? Something that doesn't centralize power in power hungry people, please.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    27. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How long until some madman unleashes an army of autonomous armed drones?

    28. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      or vote them out of office

      Uh, no.

      You can't 'vote them out of office'. You can only vote to replace them with another asshole who's just as corrupt.

      If we could 'vote them out of office', this problem would have gone away long ago, as most political offices would be empty.

    29. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Babel-17 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I just want to thank you for sharing that link. I've since passed it on to another site where it's gotten dozens of views. After a decade or more of anonymously browsing this site I had /. send me a link so I could log in again, so I can say "Thanks!".

    30. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by caseih · · Score: 1

      I can assure you that the vast majority of congresspeople will retain their seats in the next election. I think the statistics are in the 90% range. Years of gerrymandering have ensured this.

      http://www.politifact.com/trut...

    31. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      You seem to be assuming anarchy is the only solution. You CAN elect better politicians.

    32. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by tsa · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not in the US, where corruption is so widespread in its political system that good politicians who care for the people never get a chance in hell to gather enough money to buy themselves a seat or a presidency.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    33. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's a great theory, until your home is raided by FBI and IRS agents, whose guns are harder to ignore

      No problem. Second amendment rights mean I can arm myself to resist an abusive government. I will put up an "I do not recognize the FBI and IRS jurisdiction on this property" sign and shoot the agents when they come to enforce undemocratic laws. That should work, shouldn't it? Otherwise, what use are my second amendment rights anyway?

    34. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Sibko · · Score: 1

      Think about what laws and morals even mean:

      We can't have a society based on just morality, because when you arrest someone for doing something morally wrong, they're going to say, "Who says what I did was wrong? Whose authority? I don't think what I did was wrong!"; How do you argue with that without essentially stating, "I'm right because I'm right and can enforce my will through violence"? While that threat of violence still rings true, when you argue from this point, you invite rebellion, constantly. We eventually (thousands of years ago) settled on a fairly basic solution to this:

      We developed a framework of laws WITH the agreement and acceptance of the society as a whole. By living in that society, you agree to follow its laws and conduct yourself in an appropriate manner.

      Tyranny within a society appears when the laws everyone agrees with, suddenly become laws that they, by and large, do not agree with. This is what we are seeing today. The laws being created, and the laws presently existing, have not kept up with the general concepts of morality that the citizens of the state agree with. People see these laws as unjust because they do not see the benefit to the society as a whole - in fact, it has become very obvious that these laws only benefit a select few.

      Make no mistake - the TTP and TTIP treaties are tyrannical. They are kept secret from the citizens and passed without citizen input. The citizens are even ignored when they complain about the laws.

      This is strong evidence that the US government, and the governments of the nations attending to these treaties, are dysfunctional. They no longer represent the will of their citizenry and have begun a slide into despotism.

      For some nations, this can be handled and controlled by a totalitarian state - however, the US is unique in this respect: The citizenry is armed. The military chock full of individuals who are more loyal to their fellow citizen and the constitution than to the central government authority. The geopolitical enemies across the world many and varied - Russia would gladly support and arm texan revolutionaries. The infrastructure of the states is extremely vulnerable to sabotage. The cities most likely to stay loyal to the government are separated by vast distances and massive geographical boundaries like major mountain ranges or rivers.

      What I'm getting at here is that I'm utterly flabbergasted at what the US government is doing, both at home and abroad. It's like US leadership has gone completely insane, they aren't just shooting themselves in the foot, they're tying the ropes around their own necks. I don't know what exactly the US leadership expects to accomplish with such one-sided pro-corporate, anti-citizen legislation like this, other than securing the eventual collapse of the US government as it loses the popular support of its domestic population.

    35. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by s.petry · · Score: 2

      First, Carson's comment is about as loony as calling the police and expecting them to save you.

      No need to defend Carson to me, I fully understand context and how it's being ignored for the "story". Read those comments again as snark.

      Next, there is no or little media coverage because until recently there was nothing to cover outside of speculation. It's all been drafts leaked to the public via questionable sources and as we found out, a lot is different. I suspect we will end up continuing with little coverage because the IP provisions benefit the news corporations greatly.

      You may be arguing with me (hard to tell), but are demonstrating the point I made. I have seen more information and investigation by Wikileaks, RT, and the Guardian than any of the 7 top "news" stations in the US. Just the rumors should have been enough to put real journalists in action. And no, it's not about ratings because imagine the ratings one station would be receiving if they had bothered to cover the story.

      That is an outright lie.

      I don't believe you understand cynicism and sarcasm. Go back and read it again with that in mind. You did the same thing with Carson, pretending that I attacked him. Half of your statement seems to agree, but then you argue about points that really were never made. I believe we are on the same page, you just didn't realize it.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    36. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      You actually think you have political power.

      We'll never know, until we try to use it.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    37. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by s.petry · · Score: 1

      We can't have a society based on just morality,

      Yes we can, and do. In fact we have operated just this way for centuries at least.

      We developed a framework of laws WITH the agreement and acceptance of the society as a whole.

      I don't think you thought that one out fully. What measure does society use to determine justice and establish laws? Morals.

      Tyranny within a society appears when the laws everyone agrees with, suddenly become laws that they, by and large, do not agree with

      You seem to have tyranny confused with something else.

      Make no mistake - the TTP and TTIP treaties are tyrannical. They are kept secret from the citizens and passed without citizen input. The citizens are even ignored when they complain about the laws

      No again, or at least not without a great stretch. Fascist or oligarchical? One or both of those, but not necessarily tyrannical. Some people know about it, negotiated the deal, and some people will benefit. It's not necessarily cruel to the majority, but there is no benefit to the majority either.

      The last two parts are mostly correct, but I would not put too much faith in Russia arming rebels within the US. Russia has a lot to lose if our Republic behaves like it was designed and serves as a model to others. If the US is weaker, they are much stronger.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    38. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      *sigh* such bullshit...

      The money can only buy votes that are up for sale. That would be the average voter's. Do not blame your (editorial, dig?) vote on the corrupt politician. They cannot occupy the office without it, no matter how much money is spent.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    39. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by ArylAkamov · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hah, don't worry, the sarcasm was plain as day.

      It is directed at those who are now wearing that same tin-foil hat they accused others of wearing. I hope it fits them well.

      This is what really gets to me. If you try to mention any of this to the average person, they will scream tinfoil hat all day long. Even if you show them undeniable proof of some wrongdoing, the same person will act like they knew it all along and you're an idiot for thinking it to be news.

      Great example was Snowden.

      Me: Don't say anything stupid or incriminate yourself online, everything is recorded by the NSA
      Mr. X: Stop being so paranoid, there's no way they could possibly do that. Take off your tinfoil hat.

      Me: See? I told you they've been doing this without our knowledge
      Mr. X: Of course they have, what's so surprising about it? Stop acting like this is anything new, anyone with a brain already knew this

      There is no winning with them.

    40. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why I'm very, very glad to live in a country with compulsory turning up to a place of voting and then deciding if you want to place a valid vote. At least it forces some semblance of democracy to exist, unlike in the US.

    41. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 0

      You are clearly thinking of a different group of wig-wearing lawyers and plantation owners than I am.

    42. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by ahankinson · · Score: 1

      To protect you from the British?

    43. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and in some prisons, free education.

    44. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Most people are like the GP and when they attempt to communicate about it, they end up looking like a loon freshly dipped in dingbat shit and people ignore them again."

      Sorry to tell you but the brain is much worse than anticipated:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

    45. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Next, there is no or little media coverage because until recently there was nothing to cover outside of speculation.

      So which media outlets are above covering rumor and speculation? Because I am having trouble naming any. Most of them have covered quite a few stories from Wikileaks in the past, so the only reason this one is different is because it's not part of a story they want to tell us.

      And that's all the news is now. Granted, it was always that, but they've gotten better at manipulation and there are so few independent voices now that it's hardly worth reading. You mostly have your choice of whichever country's propaganda department you prefer. So, outside of things like science where the reporting is at least somewhat bound to reality, I've pretty much given up on reading the news after being an avid news junkie.

    46. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Big money, however, controls coverage of candidates and largely controls primaries. Sure, you can vote for whoever you want, but be sure that everyone on the ballot has been vetted and groomed by big money beforehand.

    47. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by mister_playboy · · Score: 1

      I've noticed that Slashdotters like to wax eloquent about so-called freedoms that align with their own interests, and whine like babies about consequences of the Internet and globalization that oppose their interests.

      Talk about stating the obvious! Why would you expect otherwise? Thanks for your perfectly objective "view from nowhere", WEIRDo.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    48. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by tsa · · Score: 1

      But they have to spend a lot of money to even get a place on the ballot paper.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    49. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      No, not if the voter is interested in seeking out the best available instead of waiting for their mass media spoon feeding. It's on their shoulders to stay on their toes...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    50. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      You don't need to call conspiracy. People en mass are a shallow lot, and the media exists to maximise viewership. The circus of candidates is full of larger-than-life personalities all fighting with each other to stand out, so they are a constant source of new headlines - any time one of them is starting to fade from public awareness they have to say something outrageous to get back in the game.

      They don't report on TPP because most people don't care: A story like that would not generate a huge number of views and thus advertising revenue. A story about the shape of Kim Kardashian's behind in the latest photo would score a lot higher in revenue terms.

    51. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes. You have the choice of the Corporate Slave R or Corporate Slave D.

      Sometimes you have an I on the ballot too, but politics is an expensive game - once you get past the local level a good campaign costs millions of dollars, so success is impossible without some rich sponsors in industry.

    52. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      "I'm right because I'm right and can enforce my will through violence."

      That's the fundamental basis of all laws. Without the power to enforce the laws through violence they lose all meaning and purpose. You can wrap the laws up in impressive rhetoric about justice, rights, morality and that fluff - but all this does is hide the uncomfortable truth that the real basis of law is the man with the gun who'll come lock you up if you don't play by the rules.

    53. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by tsa · · Score: 1

      That is true but unfortunately that's not how the world works.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    54. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      Sadly even a house full of guns can't protrct you from a drone strike.

    55. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about a snappy, humerous 5 minute video from The Undercurrent...

      TPP, ISDS & The End of Democracy
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4-mlGRPmkU&app=desktop

    56. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Considering that they were the 0.1% of their day, they'll probably be all right with it. If you look at the history, you'll notice that their main beef was with taxes. And taxes are usually only something people who have lots will be riled up over enough to start a revolution. Poor people start revolutions over things like food.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    57. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Why do you think you may still have guns? Duh.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    58. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Depends on how much spare time I get on my hands, 5-6 months.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    59. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      In a working democracy, though, that man coming to lock you up has that power to do so because the general consensus is that he should have that power.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    60. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      But I didn't consent for him to have that power over me. Democracy is mob rule with a lot of formalised procedures. That's a lot better than anarchic mob rule, but violence still underpins it.

    61. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by fnj · · Score: 1

      Of course, we theoretically have the option to complain to our elected representatives or vote them out of office, something not possible in the former Soviet Bloc.

      There were regular elections, supported by a Constitutional framework, in the USSR. The Supreme Soviet was elected by popular vote, and in turn elected the Presidium and appointed the Council of Ministers and the Chairman (Khrushchev, etc). OK, there was no direct popular election for the Chairman, but the same thing is true of Parliamentary systems like the UK.

      A weakness was that there was shadow control by the Communist party (Politburo) behind the scenes. Again, was that a ZOMG unique weakness? No. In the US, there is shadow control by the two big parties behind the scenes. They used to pick the nominees in smoke filled rooms in a convention. Then later we had primaries. Big deal. The establishment still controls who runs in those primaries. Does ANYONE think that ANY of those contesting in recent history for President are suitable for the job? Maybe some of the fringe players are, but they mysteriously get no popular support. The media makes fun of them and jokes about how they are not "real" contenders. Foul stories circulate about their past; their private lives.

      "Complain to our elected representatives"? President Obama's big show of a system to petition the Executive to change things is completely hollow. Similarly, Congressmen pay no attention to constituents between the election cycles, and do no more than pull wool over the voters' eyes. The Soviet system similarly had "show" responsiveness, and it was similarly hollow.

      The Communist party was a convenient focus of the shadow establishment in the USSR. We have a similar shadow establishment, but cannot even identify it or point to it. Which is the more clever yolk; the less susceptible to any kind of correction whatsoever?

    62. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by fnj · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't believe you understand cynicism and sarcasm.

      No offense, but maybe if you get pounded on the head enough you will understand that cynicism and sarcasm is very, very hard to pull off effectively in person with tonal and visual cues, and all but impossible on the printed page. My most friendly advice is to avoid trying it. It doesn't work.

    63. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by fnj · · Score: 1

      Hah, don't worry, the sarcasm was plain as day.

      Sorry, but no, it wasn't. Without blatantly literal sarcasm tags inserted, it doesn't work on the printed page. You can't criticize a reader for not picking up that what you are writing is the opposite of what you believe.

    64. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note that while that the 'system is corrupt,' it is also the case that the US citizen is generally really stupid. This plays as much, if not more, of a role. For instance, the corruption seen in the US *not* similar former soviet corruption due to this angle. It is not blatant, power-use, and fear-based, but is instead financial and proselytizing.

      In other words, the US citizen allows the corruption to occur.

    65. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by fnj · · Score: 1, Troll

      I can assure you that the vast majority of congresspeople will retain their seats in the next election. I think the statistics are in the 90% range. Years of gerrymandering have ensured this.

      It is sad that you think the problem is as simple and straightforward as gerrymandering.

    66. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When You rant in such a way as to illustrate complete ignorance of a topic, I presume You are an all around Idiot.

    67. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by fnj · · Score: 1

      Sorry, my representative is an obvious utter establishment tool. I won't communicate with him in any way. Mine is a one party state, but that is just a nail in the coffin. The corrupt establishment is the problem, not the political process.

    68. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is there a "lack of media coverage"? On what planet do You reside?

    69. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Babel-17 · · Score: 1

      I just now included that as well in the thread I posted. Over a 130 views now. :) When people see what's what, they're more inclined to voice an objection.

    70. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drones have a funny irony about them. The establishment loves them because drones don't say "no" to killing citizens like a human military might. However, given the security track record of any piece of software these days, it makes turning a drone against its owner much more likely, and therefore potentially useful to the party it's being used against.

    71. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by purple_cobra · · Score: 1

      Another thank you for that link. I live in the UK but we have our own version of this bollocks hanging over our heads. For the record, I don't think Corbyn (leader of Labour, the other party of our own two-party "democracy") has much of a clue, though hiring a pretty decent team of economists helps, but Cameron, Osborne and company will pay a few cheap bribes to their loyal voters (OAPs, mainly. They also make noises about immigration to deter people from voting UKIP (aka The Pull-up-the-drawbridge Party)) to keep themselves in power and able to enact bigger bribes for their corporate mates (see Rupert Murdoch, aka Mr Fox News; he also owns a large chunk of the UK print and TV press and uses that to influence voters to vote Conservative, thereby completing the circle). I also work for the NHS, so I'm doubly screwed.

    72. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      This I've known since the beginning. I'm just saying don't blame the government, or the money, or anything else. This is the voters' problem.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    73. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      We can't have a society based on just morality, because when you arrest someone for doing something morally wrong, they're going to say, "Who says what I did was wrong? Whose authority? I don't think what I did was wrong!"; How do you argue with that without essentially stating, "I'm right because I'm right and can enforce my will through violence"?

      The "framework of laws" approach doesn't address this problem either. It just means that some people (maybe a majority, maybe just a vocal minority) got together and wrote up some laws that they agreed with. In the end, the law is still based on the same subjective morals. The person you're trying to enforce the laws on did not consent to follow them simply by being born in the same arbitrary geopolitical region as those who wrote the laws.

      The only rational basis for law which does not depend on subjective morality is reciprocation. Someone who commits murder cannot rationally complain about being executed; a thief has no just cause to complain about being fined. Whatever you do to others, they can do to you—without any need for debate over whether what you did was right or wrong. It suffices to classify a given action the same way regardless of who carries it out. If you agree that what you did was wrong, that implies that you accept responsibility for the consequences. If not, then a response in kind cannot be wrong either.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    74. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd pitch in some money for drone parts if you're going to murder politicians and business owners.

    75. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by macsimcon · · Score: 1

      Australia got that right, as well as gun control.

    76. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 0

      The author of that cartoon has fallen prey to the lie that the TPP is about "free trade". How exactly is expanding copyrights or extending drug patents about "free trade"? There is a lot of other bullshit in that cartoon.

      The TPP is a very bad deal, dominated by massive rent seeking and crony capitalism. But most of the critics of TPP are themselves tools for other rent seekers and crony capitalists, including the author of that cartoon.

    77. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      You CAN elect better politicians.

      Really? Where has that ever worked?

    78. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All you need is for everyone to vote for someone they hadn't heard of. That's all it would take. But people choose not to do it because tons of people (like you) say it's impossible and also the successful advertising campaign that convinced people it's better to vote against someone than for the person you actually want.

      Another option would be to convince the electoral college to vote differently from their state's population. People tend to forget about them.

      The primary parties want to say in power. If there's a swing towards an independent those parties will integrate some of the I's policies into their own in order to get back the votes. The change is slow, but it happens.

    79. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by linuxrocks123 · · Score: 1

      A weakness was that there was shadow control by the Communist party (Politburo) behind the scenes.

      No, the "weakness" was that if you tried to run for election without the permission of the Communist Party, you would immediately be arrested, convicted in a show trial, and murdered. Once this stopped being the case, in 1989, the country quickly disintegrated as its political system was not built to withstand the turbulence of democratic elections.

      --
      vi ~/.emacs # I'm probably going to Hell for this.
    80. Re: Your laws ignore my rights by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If I thought killing them could change anything, I might consider it. Problem is that there is no shortage of others stepping up as soon as one of them is gone. It's like with any other form of parasites, killing a batch only cleans the field for others, you have to inoculate the organism to have a lasting effect.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    81. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      History is not on the side of it getting better. Usually you just replace one batch of oppressors with another batch. Usually to get something better after a revolution, what you need is a population that understands why the change happens and a leadership that suffered greatly and understand it. To give you an idea what I mean, in a lot of countries in Europe that went through a boom after WW2, a boom that benefited the whole population rather than a small group, politicians were at the helm that spent WW2 in concentration camps. And even politicians that were selfish, arrogant and only interested in their own little special interest group were turned into people willing and able to work hard for the betterment of everyone.

      Well, I'm not saying that we should lock up politicians in concentration camps for a couple years, but it seems to have a beneficial effect...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    82. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by HiThere · · Score: 1

      OK. But what's being discussed sounds more like the French Revolution...you know, the one that started with the storming of the Bastille and lead to something better through the reign of terror.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    83. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by HiThere · · Score: 1

      No, the political process is the problem. This is a systemic problem, not the problem of a few corrupt politicians. The design of the system ensures that only the corrupt can be successful at the highest levels. So this breaks down into three problems:
      1) How long should this be endured before it's worthwhile engaging in the risk of changing the system. (Perhaps it will get better on it's own. There have been periods when this has happened before.)
      2) What should it be replaced with.
      3) What is the most efficient (i.e. least traumatic && most effective && least likely to go hideously wrong) way to get from here to there.

      These problems are made worse because corruption in government is becoming endemic world wide. The reason is clear. Easy communications easily intercepted give excessive power to a centralized group of people. What to do about it is much less clear. Public key systems should solve the problem, but how do you get those with whom you wish to communicate to encrypt their communications to you? How to you keep the implementing software and hardware from being penetrated? Etc. But if all communications were encrypted with a public key system, then the concentration of power would be considerably less. So then we come to the secondary basis of power, fast transmission of orders from the central site to remote sites, and messages in return. This one I don't think CAN be solved, and I also don't think it SHOULD be solved. Then we come to the third factor facilitating centralization of power, and that's rapid transportation. Again something that shouldn't be prevented.

      The upshot is there needs to be a drastic redesign of the system causing limitations in the benefit of centralized power. One possibility is requiring all representatives of a population to live in the area being represented and to regularly (twice a week, two 5.5 hour sessions uninterrupted) hold open office hours. Appointments are forbidden. I don't like that approach. I'd rather replace elections by a draft lottery, where the representative are drafter. (I'd allow them to decline the ballot on payment of a hefty fine. Say $20,000 indexed by inflation.) Qualification would be similar to the current requirements for voting. I.e., you have to register, you need to be adult, and you need to be able to read and write. (I *would* require English, as some common language would appear to be necessary.) As I see it this selection method has three benefits:
      1) You don't get the office by being power hungry or a demagogue.
      2) You can't be bribed ahead of time.
      3) You get a good representative sample of the population.
      There's a fourth virtue which is indirect, but is
      4) There's no incentive to create centralizations of power. (You can't "run for re-election", so it's of no benefit to do so for most representatives.)
      I would hope that there would be strictly enforced laws against bribing representatives while they were in office, including against promises of benefits that they would get after leaving office, but that's an "implementation detail".

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    84. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's like saying you have no opinion on civil rights issues because you're of the racial majority...

    85. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by s.petry · · Score: 2

      Your assertion requires ignoring a blatant fact. If even one station had a different viewpoint, it would gain _all_ of the people who didn't agree with the status quot. It's kind of like the people that claim politicians are just stupid. If that was true, there would be occasion where something positive happened instead of a constant and steady stream of "bad luck".

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    86. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but it really was to a normal English speaker who can read at about an 8th grade reading level.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    87. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I invite every man to become a corporation unto himself so he can sue his government for signing this deal.

    88. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .1 percenters are quaking in their boots at your impotent threat.

      They should be. We outnumber them hundreds to one and the USA is awash in guns.

    89. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I understood his sarcasm, you fucking autist.

    90. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The French Revolution has accomplished rather little. First the reign of terror, then Napoleon. Which in turn led to another century of brutal oppression of the population in most of Europe.

      The record for the October Revolution 1917 isn't that much better...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    91. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I've spent about $15,000 so far. I'm only running for the State Senate. I refuse donations of any kind - from businesses or people. I'll pay for the entire campaign on my own, thanks. People are free to contribute their time and money to campaign on my behalf but I will accept no financial donations of any kind. I am beholden to nobody other then the community as a whole and it is my job to understand them, represent them, and learn about the issues to make informed choices as they arise.

      It's time consuming and takes some work. I don't even want to be in office, to be honest. We just aren't accurately represented so someone needs to step up and do the job right. I am in a position to do so. I will do so even though I've far more interesting things to do with my time - such as naval gazing. But, being that I am here and the job needs doing, I'm obligated to give the citizens a chance to elect me if they want. So, it's my civic duty and I'm doing it. We've far too many people who are content to complain instead of actually doing.

      This is not my campaign forum and you certainly can't vote for me so I needn't go into more detail but if you've any specific questions then I might be able to answer them.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    92. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Don't forget cable TV. You'll have to buy your own television (an acquaintance came home with one and it is clear so you can see inside of it) but you can get cable. So, there's that. Many of them still have gyms and you can learn stuff like woodcraft. If you're special you can work in the fab shop and make your own shivs out of recycled steel bunks! If you're at all like the goatse guy you can even carry around your own cell phone. It's probably not a bad retirement plan if they offer wifi and allow you to bring your own device.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    93. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      It's why I don't like the party system. The loyalty always seems to be to the party first and country second. The founders didn't really want a system of political parties but end up with one in a very short time.

    94. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Chris+Johnson · · Score: 1

      Interesting, I mentioned Enron (known for obliterating California when public services were deregulated) and according to Economix, the TPP mandates deregulation of all public services including in the US! Enron nationwide? Ugh

    95. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Chris+Johnson · · Score: 1

      'Citizens United' was fairly recent by historical standards. In the last twenty years or so there's been a LOT of deregulation and it's been thoroughly taken advantage of by big money, who paid for exactly that.

      It's not like this is normal by historical standards. It's more 'gilded age', characteristic of the precursor to a crash and subsequent overhaul of the system, reinstating the rules that used to govern.

    96. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Chris+Johnson · · Score: 1

      Every time things have got this bad, in fact.

    97. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      Yea, brother, and the guides shall be lubricated with the blood of the .1% when the time comes.

      Right before they separate your head from the rest of you.

    98. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I consider it well inside my rights to ignore your laws.

      In less martial words, issuing laws that contravene the consensus of the population is dangerous. Laws are upheld mostly because people consider them good, not because they are being enforce. Look around you and ponder which laws are upheld (in general) and which one are flauntingly broken. Do you see people go on murdering sprees, bank robberies or even do some minor shit like pushing grannies out of the way? No. Why? Not because they're forbidden, but because they go against the "general moral consensus", for a lack of a better term. People in general consider this "wrong". Yes, they are also illegal, but that doesn't matter too much.

      On the other hand, people of all times have broken laws without remorse if those laws were considered unjust. From speeding to copyright to drugs, all covered by laws with fines and punishment that are in no remotely sensibly proportion to the crime involved, laws being ignored and broken routinely by people you would otherwise consider upstanding, moral and law abiding.

      In the case of the US legal system, a means of addressing this issue was built in from the beginning.

      James Madison had to address the opposition of the Anti-Federalists to the proposed Constitution, and two of the key issues were that a) there was no Bill of Rights to serve as the highest law in the land, and b) any Bill of Rights would be incomplete (would leave out rights that would later turn out to be essential). He responded by creating a Bill of Rights, and making it open ended. The 9th Amendment provides for unspecified rights "retained by the people" and the 10th Amendment provides for unspecified rights "reserved to the people". It was such an important issue that it actually appears twice, the only thing to do so. As the highest law in the land, rights arising under the Bill of Rights also supersede the treaty power.

      Thus, government at various levels gets to write laws (including treaties), but those laws are only valid if the people decide the laws do not conflict with rights "retained by" or "reserved to" the people, and it is up to the people to decide what those rights are.

      In such cases, it is not illegal to ignore the laws, but rather it is the laws themselves that are illegal. The freedom to ignore illegal laws is a right protected by the highest law in the land. Further, we can assert the Nuremberg Precedent under the 9th/10th Amendments, and as such all legal professionals and all government officials have an individual and personal responsibility to refuse to enforce illegal laws, executive orders, judicial orders, warrants, and so forth, irregardless of hierarchy (whether civil, including judicial, or military).

      By definition, rights retained by the people are retained by the people: no entity of government, including the Supreme Court, can take such rights away (and attempting to do so would be a violation of the oaths the judges have sworn to uphold the Bill of Rights, disqualifying them from being on the Court).

      In practice, of course, the US legal profession hates this. The profession has worked very hard for much of US history to implement a legal system that has a massive artificial demand for the services of legal professionals. It's not an accident that the US has become the "Land of the Lawsuit", but that is just the tip of the iceberg: the US legal system is a real disaster. This issue plays directly into the problems we have with copyright law, trademark law, patent law, DRM, contract law, and so many other areas of law (including abusive government surveillance).

      The idea that the people (the unwashed masses) have the final say in legal matters is something the lawyers really hate. Worse, from their perspective, the dual rights to ethical practice of law and ethical government are certainly among the rights "retained by the people", but any rational person would have to conclude that much of the practice of law (and the lobbying that goes on to prevent reform) actually violates these rights ...

      Unfortunately the ethics problems are so pervasive now and so tangled throughout the legal system, it is hard to see how to fix them.

    99. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't worry too much about a spelling Nazi who still fails to note the difference between a spelling and grammatical error, to be honest.

    100. Re:Your laws ignore my rights by Reason58 · · Score: 1

      It was extremely clear to me, but English is my first language so that may be why.

  5. One world, many governments, all controlled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    by the .1% for the .1%. Choose to be a slave, or learn how to fight.

    1. Re: One world, many governments, all controlled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like, chooss to be a slave, or die. Fighting is futile: you will achieve nothing and your family will pay for your stupidity. By the way, the .1% won't be needing slaves anymore soon, so your only option is how you want to die: starvation or suicide.

    2. Re: One world, many governments, all controlled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got a hell of a lot of weapons to fight! I got my claws, I got cutlasses, I got guns, I got dynamite, I got a hell of a lot of fight! I'll fight! I'll fight! I will fight! I will fight! I will fight! I will fight!

      Let them hear it in the night! Yes, well fight! Theyre listening. Let the night roar! Let the night roar, because they can hear us, they know we mean it. Well kill them if they come!

      Mao Tse Tung said change must come
      Change must come thru the barrel of a gun
      Not thru talkin' and not through waitin'
      And sittin' around just contemplatin' the facts
      'Cos we know what they are
      So let Mao Tse Tung be your guidin' star
      Pick up a gun and learn how to fight
      All thru the day and all thru the night
      'Til come the day when the last fight's won
      I want you to listen, son
      'Cos Mao Tse Tung said change must come
      Thru the barrel of a gun
      I want you to listen, son
      Change must come
      Change must come thru the barrel of a gun

  6. OK by rawtatoor · · Score: 1

    no problem

  7. It's amazing the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    think they can get away with this.

    1. Re:It's amazing the Republicans... by arbiter1 · · Score: 1

      Um what makes you think the democrap's aint equally involved with this or even the ones pushing this?

    2. Re: It's amazing the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There to stupid to realize how stupid they are.

    3. Re:It's amazing the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know I'm responding to a troll, but really. When Obama is the primary supporter of this....yeah, your trolling is weak, poorly thought out. Overall, check minus. Needs improvement.

    4. Re:It's amazing the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      By and large it's the Democrats who are putting up any sort of effective fight against the TPP.

    5. Re: It's amazing the Republicans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Should be "they're too stupid," but it looks like you're the one that is too stupid.

    6. Re:It's amazing the Republicans... by Chibi+Merrow · · Score: 1

      The USTR that's pushing this is in a Democrat administration.

      --
      Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
      Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
  8. Who are these people? by HairyNevus · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I really got to wonder who these people are who wield the power to write these laws. Not the congressmen, the head of these mega corporations that own the congressmen who pass laws on their behalf, while blatantly shitting down the throats of the rest of us. I mean, I got to know if they honestly have an argument for why they think this is a good thing, even in the face of overwhelming unpopularity. Or, do they just not give a fuck? Are they delusional or nihilist? [whynotboth.jpg]

    --
    You were critically hit for no damage. The bruise will look nice, and maybe the scars will make good party talk.
    1. Re:Who are these people? by caseih · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Robert Reich is certainly right on about the demise of capitalism. Corporations stack the deck so much in their favor that capitalism as we used to have it, as it used to benefit average people, and lift them out of poverty, is pretty much dead. Any attempts to reform the system cause them to scream "socialist wealth redistribution."

      I used to think those that picketed at G7 meetings against globalization were luddites. Now I completely understand. Globalization is more and more just bullying on a national scale.

      Hopefully in Canada we can get the Conservatives out, though I'm not hopeful. Harper wants Canada to be just like the US in all the bad ways. However a conservative minority government is probably the worst case scenario up here--Harper would be absolutely dictatorial in such a government knowing that the electorate are going to punish anyone who brings the government down and brings on another round of elections. Both opposition parties say they won't even bother reading the TPP in the house (which is honestly a lie, but at least they say they oppose it). I dunno. Plus Trudeau is being an idiot refusing to even talk about a coalition with the NDP. But I digress.

    2. Re:Who are these people? by i_ate_god · · Score: 2

      > the electorate are going to punish anyone who brings the government down and brings on another round of elections

      Considering that only 1/3rd of Canadians want Harper, I'm not sure there would be "punishment". Also, I suspect that our current Governor General will not be so feeble and kowtow to Harper's prorogue or dissolution requests if the NDP and Liberals go the coalition route.

      And despite Harper having scared Canadians the last time a coalition was tried, I think the desperation of so many Canadians to see Harper go will force them to settle all their centrist vs left wing differences and be much more open minded to an NDP/Lib coalition. At least... I hope. Our system would work far better if we can accept coalition governments. Heck, if we were really open to coalition governments, maybe we would still have the Reform party.

      --
      I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
    3. Re:Who are these people? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Robert Reich is certainly right on about the demise of capitalism. Corporations stack the deck so much in their favor that capitalism as we used to have it, as it used to benefit average people, and lift them out of poverty, is pretty much dead.

      Unfortunately for future generations, I'm pretty sure the demise of the kind of capitalism we used to have was inevitable. You can go back to the '20s and '30s and find critics of capitalism describing this exact scenario in great detail.

      Like Empire America, the seeds of capitalism's own destruction were sown at it's very birth. It was a good run, though. It's kind of like cocaine. For a while, you're on top of the world, and everything's terrific. You love everyone and you've never been so productive. But eventually, it's going to rot you from the inside and you end up turning tricks and snatching purses.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Who are these people? by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      Well only 1/3 of Canadians want Trudeau or Mulcair as well. I know it makes a really nice fake talking point and all that but be honest when you're trying to spew political agendas.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    5. Re:Who are these people? by Jardine · · Score: 1

      Heck, if we were really open to coalition governments, maybe we would still have the Reform party.

      We do. They just re-branded and absorbed the remains of the PC Party.

    6. Re:Who are these people? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Like Empire America, the seeds of capitalism's own destruction were sown at it's very birth.

      Uh, no. It's socialism, and the crony 'capitalism' it feeds, that we're seeing the end of, Socialism cannot survive in a post-industrial economy, which is why big governments around the world are trying to hard to retard progress.

    7. Re:Who are these people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heck, if we were really open to coalition governments, maybe we would still have the Reform party.

      Not sure if you are serious.

      The so-called Conservatives are the Conservative-Reform-Alliance party. They just took the name Conservatives when the old PC party imploded years ago hoping all those people that look at the ballot and go "Uh...Conservative....check" would continue to do so. And so far those people have will willingly or unknowingly continued to, while ignoring what the Conservative party actually is.

    8. Re:Who are these people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Call it whatever you want, but every system that man can come up with, be it communism, capitalism, socialism, will eventually corrupt and fail because of a defect that affects a small number of people. The greedy, selfish, power-hungry individuals will climb to the top and then twist the system to benefit themselves at the expense of the majority.

    9. Re:Who are these people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " Now I completely understand. Globalization is more and more just bullying on a national scale."

      Not quite... This is a project of empire.

      The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives

      http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0465027261

      http://www.amazon.com/review/R2NVX3KKHJONPW/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0465027261&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=283155&store=books

      Speech by former National security Advisor of the US about Global domination of the atlantic powers:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4usbR_kKCDs&feature=youtu.be&t=406

      They are getting rid of state sovereignty with trade agreements and basically constructing kangaroo courts for the corporate world.

      Wikileaks

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABDiHspTJww&feature=youtu.be

      They also are using it to try to lockdown the internet because they fear us politically waking up...

      The (mass surveillance) by the NSA/others and abuse by law enforcement is just more part and parcel of state suppression of dissent against corporate interests. They're worried that the more people are going to wake up and corporate centers like the US and canada may be among those who also awaken. See this vid with Zbigniew Brzezinski, former United States National Security Advisor.

      https://youtu.be/Ttv6n7PFniY?t=11

      Brezinski at a press conference

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kmUS--QCYY

      Science on reasoning:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

      The real news:

      http://therealnews.com/t2/

      http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverted-Totalitarianism/dp/069114589X

      http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Government-Surveillance-Security-Single-Superpower/dp/1608463656/

      http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Government-Surveillance-Security-Single-Superpower/dp/1608463656/

      http://www.amazon.com/National-Security-Government-Michael-Glennon/dp/0190206446/

      The Citibank memo

      http://politicalgates.blogspot.ca/2011/12/citigroup-plutonomy-memos-two-bombshell.html

      US distribution of wealth

      https://imgur.com/a/FShfb

      http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

      Protectionism for the rich and big business by state intervention, radical market interference.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349

      Manufacturing consent:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM

      https://vimeo.com/39566117

    10. Re:Who are these people? by Tom · · Score: 5, Insightful

      capitalism as we used to have it, as it used to benefit average people, and lift them out of poverty, is pretty much dead.

      What makes you assume this was ever the purpose and not just a side-effect?

      It is very, very visible here in Germany. In fact, it's so transparent that you would have to be completely blind to not notice it.

      Germany had very strong social systems and a good distribution of wealth. There were poor and rich, but very few very poor and very few crazy rich. Normal people could afford a house and a car on one salary from a regular job. Unemployment money was high enough that you wouldn't lose your home and pensions were so that retiring didn't mean becoming poor. Universal health care? We've had that always and it was adequate. Doctors were so good we exported them to other countries. Basically, a lot of people could actually afford those Mercedes and BMW cars we make.

      After the fall of communism that all changed. Politics intentionally created a new low-cost labour market. Unemployment benefits dropped, lots of social benefits were dismantled, and when you are of working age, you are being bombarded with advertisement telling you to buy into this or that investment scheme because your pension will not allow you a good life anymore. All of that happened in less than 20 years. It started almost exactly after the re-unification, which provided a nice excuse for some measures ("it's so expensive, we need to save money").

      What you learn from that is that all of this has been a front. The reason capitalism in Germany allowed for a good life was not inherent to capitalism. It was added benefits that were included because West Germany was too close to communist East Germany and the western allies needed to make sure the west german people would not look to East Germany and see something better, but the other way around (which, btw., worked).
      Once the threat of people actually desiring communism disappeared, the facade came down. Now we see what capitalism is really about, has always been about. It just stopped pretending.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    11. Re:Who are these people? by faraway · · Score: 2

      Sanders has had a consistent message for over 30 years. I will vote for him. His beliefs are line with mine:

      * He voted against the Iraq war.
      * He voted against the patriot act.
      * He spoke out against warrant less wiretapping.
      * He's spoken against H-1B cheap labor. This important because Americans are being replaced by people from certain countries simply because they are much cheaper labor. Doctors and lawyers have unions to protect them from cheap labor. Why shouldn't the rest of the middle class have them? I would be in favor of H-1B visas if 1) it allowed employees free access to the job market (job mobility) and 2) they were taxed to pay for education and training in America for Americans. Remember, they say the only reason we have to import H-1B people is because we have a shortage in skilled labor. If that is true, then it makes sense to allow business the ability to bring in skilled labor, yet invest in our future instead of the future of people, some of which end up returning the knowledge and insight they gain in our society back to their home country. I love the US.
      * He's against free trade agreements that ship American factory jobs to countries with cheaper labor. This is important because when they move from country A to cheaper country B, you still pay the same amount for that $9.99 t-shirt, instead they pocket the profit and invest it in buying more government influence to further enslave you.
      * He wants to bring education costs back to where they were before (virtually free) by restoring higher marginal taxes (though he has not proposed restoring them to the >90% level they were at before). This will restore the ability of the lower and middle classes to educate themselves and increase our collective competitiveness. It will also educate the electorate again. I'm for reducing the barriers to social mobility. The Nordic European countries have a much higher social mobility rating than the US - meaning if you are born lower or middle class you have a higher chance of making more than your parents did. Fact.
      * He wants to reduce our health care costs and remove our pro-profit health care slavery. Our health care system is ranked 38th in the world, yet spends 2x for a worse patient outcome. To have the chance at an American dream, your health should not be at gating factor and at the whim of a patron. This is slavery.
      * He wants to increase parental leave vacation and family rights. He is pro-family. Starting and having a family does not mean you lose your livelihood. This is slavery.
      * He wants to break up big banks and restore regulation to prevent them from speculating and causing the need to socialize their losses again. In 2008 these "high rollers" nearly destroyed the American and global economy - their house of cards crumpled because we let them be unregulated, and we as citizens had to pay for it. They get their privilege to function from us, we provide them with limited liability and fictitious person-hood. Our society should reap the benefits of it. Not a few moochers at the top. Too big to fail my ass.
      * He wants to protect worker's rights to collective bargaining. We had to fight dearly for them. They gave us what was the 40 hour week. I wonder if the decline in our collective social happiness is due to the decline in unionization, and increase in worker abuse. Police, lawyers, doctors, and in some places, teachers still have and love their unions. It's a concept we should protect.
      * He is for net neutrality. This is important. Net neutrality was guaranteed before because if one independent company tried to degrade network QoS, you could easily move to another provider. From the 20-30 competing Internet providers of the 1990s to now virtually just one or two in most markets: Comcast and AT&T in the Bay Area. Because there are only two of them

    12. Re:Who are these people? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      socialist wealth redistribution

      Often they just say 'wealth redistribution', which is the phrase that annoys me more than any other in political discussions. The people who say it are always implicitly in favour of wealth redistribution in one direction and often opposed to things that slow it, not just things that might reverse it. If I have $1m, and I invest it at a return 1% above the rate of inflation (not so hard when you have $1m), then I make $10K/year just from having money. If I have $10m and I make the same investments, then I'm making $100K/year, which is more than most people who work for a living, again just from starting with capital.

      The average net worth of US senators in 2011 (I couldn't find newer figures) was $14m, for senators it was $7m (before anyone jumps in with partisan claims, the average for Republicans was higher in the Senate, but lower in the House). These people are earning more from their investments than most of their constituents. They're all - on both sides of the aisle - very much in favour of wealth redistribution, as long as that wealth keeps flowing to them.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    13. Re:Who are these people? by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Well, Trudeau already expressed his love for the Bloc, at least the leader of the Bloc. :)

    14. Re:Who are these people? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      But Sanders is also pro-Second Amendment. This will not sit well with people who approve of your list, and vice versa.

    15. Re: Who are these people? by faraway · · Score: 1

      I'm pro second amendment and I'm pro my list.

      Does that surprise you?

    16. Re: Who are these people? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Not my point exactly, because I do know other people like you. But like climate, the gun issue is ideologically attached by most voters to a specific place in the spectrum. So when you're gathering enough supporters to win party primaries, that effect becomes crucial.

    17. Re:Who are these people? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      No pure political or economic model will ever work. In their pure form they will always result in failure on a scale larger than a tribe. I don't care which one you think is best, it will not work in its pure form. No matter how hard you try. Humans are involved and will be the point of failure for each and every one. They simply can't work with a large group or a diverse group - not in the long term. This is why zealots are stupid.

      Of course I like to point out that I'm zealous about being a moderate. I too am human, yes? I'd explain my own personal opinions but I've done so before and it wouldn't be read so I'll save us both the time. Suffice to say, I have all the answers and you don't. Go team, go! *nods* (Actually, that's pretty far from the truth but I include it as my piss poor attempt at humor.)

      Screw it... It's not like I was doing anything better.

      I'm a 'Classic Libertarian,' not to be confused with fans of Rand or Anarcho-Capitalists or even an economic model. I'm more closely aligned with socialists in many ways. The rights belong to the individual, to the society, and way down on the list businesses get a few rights but those are really unimportant when compared with your rights as an individual. Libertarianism is a political ideology and not an economic model. People who confuse the two are generally not that bright. Some confuse it because of the antics of those who've usurped the party.

      Believe it or not, Wikipedia has a pretty damned good article on Libertarians. The first four paragraphs are excellent reading. I can certainly understand why people are confused about the party - the fault is my own and it is also the fault of my peers. We were wooed into allowing anyone to use the moniker and we ended up with some really stupid people speaking on our behalf. I'm slowly doing what I can to correct this. I'm one small voice in a very large crowd.

      Anyhow, I think a blended system with proper checks and balances is ideal. Where the lines are drawn is subject to debate. What shouldn't be subject to debate is the need to eliminate the zealots from the discussion. What shouldn't be allowed is irrational people controlling the conversation. What needs to happen is some serious open and honest discussion about making changes to ensure the rights of the individual are protected. What will happen? Nothing... Nothing good at any rate. Each and every single law is, for better or worse, a restriction on a right. Legislators aren't just going to suddenly decide to stop making laws. They'll make more laws. And each new law will remove somebody's rights - sometimes that's a good thing like taking away a person's right to stop gay people from getting married. Usually, they're not so very good in my opinion but that's a topic for another day and is too much for this type of site.

      Finally, in my disgust, I've simply decided to stick with the "Classic Libertarian" moniker. I am not powerful enough to overcome the damage done but I simply can't tolerate being continually associated with the idiots who self-identify as Libertarians. They're not. They're disgruntled social conservatives, anarcho-capitalists, or aspies who think the world can survive on avarice and have a strange notion that they're capable of doing it on their own or that those at the top have done so without the help of others. *sighs* Feel free to kick them in the nuts. They've got firearms but I'm pretty sure they don't know how to use them so you should be safe. They'll probably just whine anyhow.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    18. Re:Who are these people? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I confess that I didn't read a word of what you said. That's the problem. Why do you type like that? I mean, you have to specifically try it - it's not like it happens by accident. I'm just curious as to what would motivate you to do so. There's nothing wrong with some emphasis, really. However, when I see this sort of stuff I just scroll on by. I can't say that I've ever asked why someone would do this so I'm taking a minute to do so now.

      It's just not something I read - I might have missed something worth reading but my eyeballs just hate it so I skip it. Literally, not one single word was read as far as I know. As soon as I see it my eyes move down the page and the scrolling begins. What's your motive? Care to type it out again (just cut and paste) in regular text? I'll read it then.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  9. vote it down by bzipitidoo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This treaty is an outright declaration of class warfare, with lots of surveillance goodies thrown in to get the enforcement part of government on board.

    The thing to do now in the US is simply vote it down. If it is fast tracked so that Congress can only vote yes or no, then "no" it is. Just in case there's a chance of passage, we should make a lot of noise, make sure our representatives know our will and that it won't be safe to ignore us.

    --
    Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    1. Re:vote it down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ummmm.... it's the fucking US govt pushing this shit. Your representativs are bought and paid for - this document proves it. Not sure what you mean by 'not safe to ignore us', is that a threat of violence? Bizarre.

    2. Re:vote it down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This treaty is an outright declaration of class warfare, with lots of surveillance goodies thrown in to get the enforcement part of government on board.

      The thing to do now in the US is simply vote it down. If it is fast tracked so that Congress can only vote yes or no, then "no" it is. Just in case there's a chance of passage, we should make a lot of noise, make sure our representatives know our will and that it won't be safe to ignore us.

      You speak of this voting mechanism as if that bullshit does anything anymore to effect real change.

      Perhaps it's time to wake the fuck up, or shut the fuck up. The time to speak about or act with our Rights is long gone, which is obvious to everyone but the ignorant.

    3. Re:vote it down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's this "voting" thing? You think Obama is going to have Congress vote on it? He managed to get his Iran deal through without bothering to involve Congress, why should the TPP be any different?

  10. TPP == by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Toilet Paper Partnership? You're gonna need it once you read what they're trying to enforce worldwide...

  11. Obummer lied. Millions died. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Hope and Change. LOL. This is what we get from all the idiots falling for Obummer's bullshit.

    1. Re:Obummer lied. Millions died. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a first term idiot, I approve this message.

    2. Re:Obummer lied. Millions died. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least you weren't a two-termer. You can be forgiven.

    3. Re:Obummer lied. Millions died. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hope and Change. LOL. This is what we get from all the idiots falling for Obummer's bullshit.

      Just in case you were keeping score, all those idiots are still out there. And they didn't get any smarter.

      In fact, they didn't learn a fucking thing. That was obvious when they elected him to a second term.

      Any Hope that Change will happen this time around is as pointless and hopeless as the man who coined that marketing bullshit.

    4. Re:Obummer lied. Millions died. by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      In fact, they didn't learn a fucking thing. That was obvious when they elected him to a second term.

      Yeah, right. You really think Romney would have been a better choice?

      Democracy means nothing when you're only given the choice between arsenic and cyanide.

    5. Re:Obummer lied. Millions died. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The people who wrote the TPP LOVE voters like you. Easily fooled into partisanship with cheap appeals to emotion. You're the reason why the TPP exists, not Obama.

  12. It's all bullshit and it's bad for ya. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's true that this is all bullshit. Speaking like a true politician, how do we know the EFF or Wikileaks has the right document? How do we even know that a true document exists? How do we even know that there even is a real TPP deal?

    Truth is, the US government can neither confirm nor deny such allegations from EFF and Wikileaks. Furthermore... ... we'll probably just say fuck you to the other nations who signed on to this deal and scrap it. We do that with virtually everything else. Make them sign on to bullshit, and we go on about our way as the world power.

    - Sam.

  13. This means War ! by randalware · · Score: 1

    choose your methods of fighting !

    The Committee For Public Safety will now come to order !

    resistance will not be futile, but mandatory.

    --
    This is my opinion based on what little I know and understand of the rumors and lies Thanks, Randal
  14. Did you expect anything logical? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What got passed is what the deep pockets paid for. It's called extortion.

  15. How? by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know about you, but 90% of the things I buy to live (Food, Toiletries, shelter) are owned and made by 13 companies. Unless you can afford really expensive boutique goods how the hell do you boycott? And if you can afford that TPP is good for you...

    Better yet, tell me how to get the churches and their blue collar workers back on track with socialism? How do I remove abortion as a wedge issue? I'm singling that one out since the left dropped guns and the right seems to be losing homosexuality and racism (and the welfare queens) as their wedge issues. It's the last major one I know of that divides our working class. Tell me how the hell to fix our politics...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:How? by symbolic · · Score: 1

      > I don't know about you, but 90% of the things I buy to live (Food, Toiletries, shelter) are owned and made by 13 companies

      Maybe you can't stop buying from all 13, but try one or two. Seriously. I've done it. It's not that hard.

    2. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better yet, tell me how to get the churches and their blue collar workers back on track with socialism?

      Old Russian Proverb: Everything our leaders told us about communism was a lie. Everything they told us about capitalism was the truth.

      How do I remove abortion as a wedge issue?

      Artificial Womb Technology.

    3. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You cannot "fix" our politics. You can only understand how politics works, and adapt to it.

      Your voice as an individual is worthless. The only meaningful contribution you can make, as an individual, is to fund lobbies that support your cause. I suppose you can also do some awareness-raising to get others to fund your lobby, though a lot of that is done by the lobby itself anyway (if it is competent).

      Wealth, inasmuch as it is an abstract measure of how much influence you have over other people, is inseparable from politics. You can no more take the money out of politics than you can take medicine out of health care. They are intrinsically linked. The same goes for corruption and politics. The rich have the influence, so they control the world. Insisting that this is not right will change nothing. Refusing to donate to a lobby because "that isn't how it should work" will only guarantee the failure of your political agenda. Reality does not negotiate.

    4. Re:How? by Tom · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I don't know about you, but 90% of the things I buy to live (Food, Toiletries, shelter) are owned and made by 13 companies. Unless you can afford really expensive boutique goods how the hell do you boycott? And if you can afford that TPP is good for you...

      For food, you can go to local markets and buy it directly from farmers. At least here in Europe you can.

      There are also local products in many categories, but they are often more expensive and sometimes only available in select shops (look for eco shops and sustainable products, that's a first pointer). But again, in this area there is so much scamming from big companies that you have to do research to be sure.

      And that's the problem. We don't want to do that. We don't give enough of a fuck about the stuff we eat or use to care where it actually comes from.

      Tell me how the hell to fix our politics...

      Give back your nerd card. Robert Heinlein wrote a little book in fucking 1946 about this very problem, and little has changed since then:

      https://www.goodreads.com/book...

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    5. Re:How? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      "For food, you can go to local markets and buy it directly from farmers."

      Depends on country. Simple economy of scale means small farms are in a slow process of decline - the farmer with a few traditional chicken enclosures cannot hope to compete with the farm that has ten massive industrial barns and chickens in the millions. Large farms have no interest in selling a tiny fraction of their output direct to consumers - they are not in the retail business.

    6. Re:How? by Tom · · Score: 1

      That is what I mean by saying we don't give enough of a fuck about where things come from.

      Fortunately, over here enough people do, the ecology movement of the 80s took care of that. Markets exist and in fact are thriving. About two years ago, they opened a night market near my home, which so far I've only known from tropical asian countries. It's a much bigger pleasure to go there than to a supermarket.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    7. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...And if you can afford that TPP is good for you..."

      How so? Please elaborate, in more dimensions than an already inflating account balance.

    8. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can in the us as well, including big chin grocery stores as it simply makes more economic sense to source perishables(met, produce, etc.) as locally as possible

    9. Re:How? by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but 90% of the things I buy to live (Food, Toiletries, shelter) are owned and made by 13 companies.

      That makes no sense. There are thousands of home builders and a hundred million home owners. There are hundreds of thousands of people selling you food, from farmers and small restaurants to corporate fast food and prepackaged foods, and food is about 10% of household spending. Toiletries, clothing, and other essentials are a few percent of household spending, and again, you have thousands of companies to choose from.

      A few big corporations have a large market share. That's because they are actually pretty good and pretty cheap. That's why a lot of people buy their stuff. But if you don't like what they provide, or if you want to save some extra money, there are plenty of other sources to get your housing, food, toiletries, and clothing from and save some money.

    10. Re:How? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1, Informative

      I'm singling that one out since the left dropped guns

      What makes you think the Left has dropped guns as an issue? Or did you miss the photo ops as a result of this latest school shooting? Seems to me both Hillary and Obama spent some time calling for "common sense gun laws" (for which read: make guns illegal)....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    11. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do I remove abortion as a wedge issue?

      Start feeding the Evangelicals to the lions again.

    12. Re: How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You can no more take the money out of politics than you can take medicine out of health care."

      Bullshit. All it would take is some crafty laws or a Constitutional Amendment. Not easy, but also not impossible. We just need someone to lead the fight.

    13. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are tons of places in the USA were this still happens. There are farmer markets that pop-up once a week for months at a time during different parts of the year. The problem is they aren't advertised well so they're easy to miss.

      You can also plant a garden. Victory gardens were all the rage during WWII, everyone had one. My tiny raspberry patch gives me 10-20 raspberries a day while in season and takes no effort on my part to maintain. I'll plant cucumbers next as organic ones cost 3x non-organic ones (everyone recommends getting organic if you're going to eat the skin). Sure the produce from your garden doesn't look as good as the ones from market, but they taste better. Don't have the time? Use wireless headphone and listen to the TV/radio/Slashdot with a screen reader while outside.

    14. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe high profile issues should not be "which party do I vote for?". Major issues should be an independent vote. What do the people want? And vote for what you want. Keep it separate from elections.

  16. Role for Jury Nullification by trout007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is why Jury Nullification is so important. Of course that's why many of these laws will be enforced without a trial.

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    1. Re:Role for Jury Nullification by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Jury nullification allows for the views of a community to override the letter of the law. This can be a good or bad thing, depending on the community.

    2. Re:Role for Jury Nullification by fnj · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is only a good thing. It cannot be a bad thing. You cannot convict anyone by jury nullification; only free someone. Better ten guilty men go free than one innocent man hang.

    3. Re:Role for Jury Nullification by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A good part of jury nullification's bad reputation comes from the south during and for a time after the segregation era, which it was used on numerous occasions to let a white murderer go free after killing a black person. With jury nullification, community standards win - even if the community happens to be packed with racists who believe the black victim deserved it for having ideas above his station.

    4. Re:Role for Jury Nullification by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 0

      "You cannot convict anyone by jury nullification; only free someone."

      This is exactly what the OJ jury did.

    5. Re:Role for Jury Nullification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is only a good thing. It cannot be a bad thing. You cannot convict anyone by jury nullification; only free someone.

      But a jury may free someone to continue victimizing people that the jury doesn't care to protect. There is a long history of this, and it increasingly includes people with unpopular views about information and technology.

    6. Re:Role for Jury Nullification by trout007 · · Score: 1

      On the other hand courts are very anti defendant. I was on a jury where it was a she said / she said. None of the testimony from the witnesses matched. The prosecuter presented evidence showing the defendant had a couple prior felonies which was convincing to the other jurors. I asked the judge what the prints were for and when since she looked like she was in her 40's. The judge said we couldn't have that information. It was an aggravated assault and assault charge. We also weren't allowed to know what the potential sentence was.

      I tried to convince everyone to vote not guilty on all accounts because it wasn't clear at all what happened except the plaintiff had a knot on her head. But because of the priors the best I could do was get plain assault. She was a black women so I had to weigh hanging the jury and a retrial which most likely wouldn't have someone like me on it.

      So we found her guilty of simple assault. Turned out the priors were non violent check fraud 20 years ago. But she was sentenced for 10 years. Nobody in that jury room though she would get that kind of sentence. And all of them thought her priors had to be for violent crimes.

      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    7. Re:Role for Jury Nullification by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure about that. How about if a jury nullifies what would have been a solid conviction for a police officer that shot an unarmed person in the back without even giving them any warning - complete with body cam footage of them doing exactly that? Is that a good thing? Is that just?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  17. Check the priorities... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's basically the US exporting his own copyright laws to other countries in the pacific ocean. So things don't change at all for americans: just keep downloading whatever you want as you've done for 20 years and don't give a f...

    You should all be more worried about the Investor-State dispute settlement: companies will have the right to sue governments if they don't like their laws and regulations (environment safety, workers' rights, healthcare, welfare, etc...), and private lawyers will be part-time "judges" who will obviously rule in favor of corporations. That's far more dangerous for democracy and national sovereignty.

    Finally, most importantly, start realizing that the expression "free trade" isn't good at all. It means companies moving production and services where labor costs are lower. It means companies being more powerful than democratically elected parliaments. It means more wealth inequality, plutocracy and oligarchy. I know that it's quite difficult to realize that something that is called "free" can be bad, especially when you're taught the opposite since elementary school, but sooner or later you need waking up.

    1. Re: Check the priorities... by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2

      Free as in without inconvenient restrictions like treating your workers like humans.

  18. Blame It On by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    John F. Kennedy; his Hollywood pimp, Peter Lawford; and Jack Mankiewicz, who left JFK's cabinet to become head of the MPAA. That's just history.

    1. Re:Blame It On by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      John F. Kennedy; his Hollywood pimp, Peter Lawford; and Jack Mankiewicz, who left JFK's cabinet to become head of the MPAA. That's just history.

      I seem to recall a president back in the '80s that had some ties to Hollywood, too. A union organizer and former actor, if memory serves. Wife a former showgirl.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Blame It On by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It has been continuous since JFK; it also existed in a press (and newsreel) agreement during FDR's term to keep his medical condition secret from the American people; an agreement to support the war against our enemies during WWII and, during Eisenhower's administration, to be anti-Communist.

      Johnson lost the press and Hollywood, Nixon did not strengthen ties with them, Ford and Carter were cyphers with regard to the larger culture, and, you are right that Reagan reestablished ties which went back to Mankiewicz. The Bushes tried to ignore Hollywood; Clinton reeastablished ties; the younger Bush courted them without success, but Obama seems to have been made for Hollywood's surface glitz, leading to TIPP. Trump, of course, would be a master of neo-Kennedyism.

    3. Re:Blame It On by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

      o shit if only I had mod points.... I *voted* for that guy too... only 1x tho

      --
      C|N>K
    4. Re:Blame It On by KGIII · · Score: 1

      IIRC Nixon, in his younger days, had a bit to do with the whole 'accuse Hollywood of being full of communists' thing during the McCarthyism days. It's no surprise that the media was unkind to him after that. I seem to recall an interview with Khrushchev's advisors, one of them at any rate, where they shared his disbelief at Nixon going down for a 'fairly trivial' lapse in ethics on behalf of folks who worked for him. I was there, at the time, and probably wasn't as in-tune to it as I am now but I suspect there was a lot of media slant and bias during his administration. I can't imagine that Hollywood ever forgave the man who helped send some of their peers to jail over supposed ties with communism.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  19. Double-edged sword? by Krishnoid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Since this weakens the public domain and strengthens rights for rightsholders, does it comparably strengthen the case for copyleft? How/would this change FOSS promotion and/or adoption strategies?

    1. Re:Double-edged sword? by JakartaDean · · Score: 1

      Copyleft didn't need strengthening. In effect this just takes benefits away from the citizens of the 12 countries involved and gives them to corporations for longer. Your comments are welcome in the circular filing cabinet beneath my desk...

      --
      The subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures (Junius)
    2. Re:Double-edged sword? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Copyleft didn't need strengthening. In effect this just takes benefits away from the citizens of the 12 countries involved and gives them to US Based Megacorps for infinity because a corporation does not die. Life + 75 years in in effect forever.

      There fixied it for you.

  20. Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The base of the Republican party is currently so outraged at the party leaders in Washington, who have been doing Obama's bidding since 2010 (fully-funding his demands for Obamacare, Planned Parenthood, Illegal aliens, etc) and not ever actually fighting him (they have not even sent him a single conservative bill, as evidenced by his lack of vetos) that the GOP establishment is in complete chaos, unable to pick a leader who satisfies both the lobbyists in DC and the voters back home.

    Sorry, but the GOP leaders in D.C. are bought-and-paid-for by the same Wall St. money men who have also spent more money electing (and re-electing) Obama than on any other politician in history. These same people are also the biggest funders of BOTH H->illary Clinton AND Jeb! Bush.

    People who want to end all the corruption need to stop voting for the people Wall St wants. No more Jebs. No more Hillarys or Obamas. If you keep supporting these people for other reasons, then shut yer mouth and stop complaining - you have given other issues a higher priority a selected this path as a side-effect; you need to be honest with yourself. Wall St gets everything it wants by distracting you with other issues they know you care more about like abortion or man-man sex (they have a candidate on each side of those issues to push yer buttons and accomodate you while they get their way). WAKE UP!

    1. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're mad at Obama, you must try to open your eyes. I'm 100% opposed to Republican views (1) and yet I don't think Obama acts too far from what a Republican would do. Maybe they would do with oil what he does with movies, but still it's more money to the USA. And no, this is not a good thing, because I think people will resent losing their rights. Maybe some treaties will be canceled like EU just did about information exchange.

      I'm all in favor of fighting unauthorized copies and massive copyright violation, but I'm afraid "pirates" will make even more money now, just like during the Prohibition. Of course, the ones who will be punished will be the parents.

      As a father, I wonder what would happen to my family if such "partnership" was to happen in my country. I already do what I can, but I guess it's better to make sure I don't have any books for which I didn't get an license. It's all too Bradburian.

      1. Well, there might be something on which I could agree with them.

    2. Re:Ha by FunkSoulBrother · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Man-Man sex and Abortion (and meaningful gun control) are all settled issues barring a constitutional amendment, so I urge anyone not to vote on the basis of these issues, because they aren't changing anytime soon.

      I'm a pretty typical American liberal in the sense that I am pro-choice, pro marriage equality, and fuck if I wouldn't like to round up all the guns and throw them in the sewer. But it's not going to happen, so I would happily vote for someone who opposed all of these things if they were in favor of single payer healthcare or fucking over this Treaty, or something else achievable that I'd like to see fixed.

    3. Re:Ha by 0123456 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you're mad at Obama, you must try to open your eyes. I'm 100% opposed to Republican views (1) and yet I don't think Obama acts too far from what a Republican would do.

      That's because both parties are full of power-crazed psychopaths. The only difference is which lies they tell.

    4. Re:Ha by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm a pretty typical American liberal in the sense that I am pro-choice, pro marriage equality,

      Same here, but I'm also a gun owner (and have been for almost 40 years).

      I'd bet I'm way more liberal than most people here (including you, probably) but I'm not a single-issue voter like a lot of people.

      I vote for whomever I think will do the best job for the country even if it goes against my personal self interests. This time it'll probably be Bernie Sanders regardless of what the media says or how much they smear him.

      Do I agree with everything he says? Of course not, but IMHO he's far better than any of the Republicans and far better than Hillary or Biden or whoever the Democrats dig up next.

      I've never found an apt description for my political flavor, I suppose it'd be something like a "slightly-conservative-liberal" or "almost-social-democrat" or something like that. I sure as shit don't fit into any of the neat little categories they try to make us all fall into.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    5. Re:Ha by skam240 · · Score: 1

      I was literally just reading a neat little story in my local newspaper about the history of the second amendment and the redefining of meaning it's gone through in the last 50 years. There was about 100 period where the courts didnt ignore the "well regulated militia" part and properly saw that the second amendment was meant to protect state militias not mass firearm ownership in general and there were a ton of court cases all the way up to the supreme court that agreed on this interpretation. In the last few decades however, a very focused minorty has managed to get the first part of the second amendment essentially dropped.

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    6. Re:Ha by faraway · · Score: 3, Informative

      Thank God Americans live in a Democratically elected Republic.  We don't have to move elsewhere to return to the prosperity of the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s before we reduced our top marginal tax rate from 90% to 35% and indebted our future generations and destroyed the ability of our middle class to educate itself and collectively bargain for a piece of the pie from their corporate en-slavers.  And like we did in the 1930s and 1940s, we can use our right to vote to do it again.

      And maybe your family can rise out of poverty too and get educated and contribute again.

      It's amazing how much money the liberal states provide the to republican "pull yourself up by your boot straps" welfare states.

      http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/united-states-federal-tax-dollars/
      ---

      Democratic liberal states make money.
      Unlike dollars allotted, tax dollars received show where the money was actually spent. New Jersey receives 61 cents for each tax dollar paid, Nevada 65 cents, Connecticut 69, New Hampshire 7 cents, and Minnesota 72 . Illinois receives 0.75 for each tax dollar they pays, followed by Delaware  At 77 cents and  California at 78 cents per dollar paid.
      --
      Republican welfare states mooch and live off of it.
      The states receiving the most are number five Alabama, which  receives 1.66 per tax dollar paid, number four North Dakota with1.68, West Virginia at 1.76 , Louisiana,1.78, Alaska, 1.84 , Mississippi 2.02  and New Mexico at 2.03, over 100% of every taxdollar paid.
      ---

      The cognitive dissonance of these moochers is amazing.  Against welfare, yet living off of it.  But I don't mind, I'm a city dweller and and taxed adequately, but I also understand that getting ahead is not just an individual act, but a collective one as well.  You people want individual freedom unless it is the decision to choose who you want to marry or what medical procedures you can have.  Then freedom is a bad thing.  The cognitive dissonance amazes me.

      I enjoy the nice roads, clean environment, business friendly and responsive government.  I will gladly pay more to ensure everyone gets a chance at the American dream through hard work and education.

    7. Re:Ha by faraway · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm voting Sanders.  He's had 30 years of consistent messaging.  Finally a third party in the white house.  Checks and balances could be restored between the two branches again.

      The Corporatists in Congress with their < 15% approval rating will have to actually negotiate with a non-Corporatist for once.

      I'm excited at that possibility.

    8. Re:Ha by umghhh · · Score: 1

      You cannot flush them, so throwing them guns in the sewer is not going you any good. Throw them in the active volcano or into the ocean instead. As you said this is not going to happen but at least your options should be meaningful.

    9. Re:Ha by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      but I'm not a single-issue voter like a lot of people.

      But the country's problems ARE single issue, namely that the government at high levels place the desires of corporations above the rights of the people. In fact the government places pretty much everything above the rights of the people. The problem is that this is not a partisan issue, it's not even an isolated American issue.

    10. Re: Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sweden is lovely this time of the year, and best part is the risk of getting randomly shot is about as high as getting hit by lighting....

    11. Re:Ha by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 0

      You make some very insightful posts.

      Alas, it's quite unfortunate that you feel obliged to distract us from the *content* of your message by indulging in *attention-seeking behaviour* through forcing us to read it in a fixed-width font. Especially here, where I'm willing to bet that the majority of readers equate fixed-width with code. And you're not posting code. Maybe you don't realise it, but what you're actually accomplishing with that is to make it obvious that you suffer from low self-esteem, and that's totally unnecessary.

      Why don't you get over yourself, and let your worthy message speak for itself?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    12. Re:Ha by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      The math skills demonstrated in this post demonstrate why America is so far in debt...

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    13. Re:Ha by skam240 · · Score: 1

      Your post amounts to a "not-uh", which is to say not at all insitefull.

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    14. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      --
      Republican welfare states mooch and live off of it.
      The states receiving the most are number five Alabama, which receives 1.66 per tax dollar paid, number four North Dakota with1.68, West Virginia at 1.76 , Louisiana,1.78, Alaska, 1.84 , Mississippi 2.02 and New Mexico at 2.03, over 100% of every taxdollar paid.
      ---

      The cognitive dissonance of these moochers is amazing.

      Ya know ... you should really engage your brain before you insert your foot in your mouth.

      Alabama ... Redstone Arsenal.
      Louisiana ... Michaud facility (NASA).
      New Mexico ... White Sands
      Mississippi ... Keesler AFB
      Alaska ... Elmendorf Joint Base
      North Dakota ... Minot AFB ... home of a B-52 bomber wing.

      These are just a few examples of WHY federal procument tax dollars are higher in these states ... the good citizens there are doing the work of and serving the federal government. So next time you want to enjoy the nice roads, clean environment, etc, think about the people at these facilities who make those things possible for you.

    15. Re:Ha by Hylandr · · Score: 0

      You never studied...

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    16. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      , so I would happily vote for someone who opposed all of these things if they were in favor of single payer healthcare fucking over this Treaty

      A big part of this treaty is large government handouts to pharmaceutical companies. And your answer to that is to want to give government even more power to make such handouts directly, without even law makers or treaty negotiations?

      You are a fucking evil crony capitalist.

    17. It's amazing how much money the liberal states provide the to republican "pull yourself up by your boot straps" welfare states. http://visualeconomics.creditl...

      It's not so amazing once you realize that a lot of that money is for useless crap that, in many cases, the federal government imposes on those states.

      Furthermore, while I disagree with the current system of taxation and government handouts, as long as it is the law of the land, I am certainly going to maximize the amount of money I get out of it.

    18. Yes, the government does screw over the people. And your solution to that is to vote for someone who wants to give the government even more power to screw over the people?

      Sanders wants to institute massive expansions in taxes and government regulation of corporations. Even if Sanders were competent, strong, and honest, how do you think a successor is going to use these expanded powers?

      Trying to fix government by electing a strong leader that fixes government misconduct doesn't work. Nations have tried that approach again and again and it ends in disaster. The only way to address government misconduct is to limit it, by limiting government itself.

    19. Re: Ha by macsimcon · · Score: 1

      Here we go again.

      Private insurance costs 30% to run, Medicare costs 3% to run.

      I understand that you're just a worker bee, but those of us who own our own businesses are tired of overpaying for healthcare for our employees when government could do the same job for one-tenth the cost. In spite of their incompetence, government programs don't need to make a profit like private insurance companies do.

      I fail to understand why dumbshits like you continue to want to hand over your money to private insurance companies which provide fewer benefits year after year, while raising prices 10% year after year. Is it simply that you're too ignorant to know you're being duped?

      Hey libertarian idiots, you really want to shrink the size of government? If you're serious, then allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices again (THANKS Obama...oh wait, I mean Bush), and healthcare cost plummet.

    20. Re: Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the point eitherway. Once the TTP makes it to Sweden he'll be under the same rule of law anyway.

    21. Re:Ha by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm voting Sanders. He's had 30 years of consistent messaging. Finally a third party in the white house.

      Same here, and his record of consistency is one of the reasons. He voted against the war AND against the PATRIOT act.

      -

      I'm excited at that possibility.

      Me too...can't wait for it to happen.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    22. Re:Ha by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      But the country's problems ARE single issue, namely that the government at high levels place the desires of corporations above the rights of the people.

      That is far from the only issue facing this country. It's a significant issue and is at the heart of many problems, but it's not the only issue to be considered.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    23. Re:Ha by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And your solution to that is to vote for someone who wants to give the government even more power to screw over the people?

      Except that all the other candidates ON BOTH SIDES want this exact same thing.

      Anyone who thinks they don't simply hasn't been paying attention.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    24. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a single-issue voter, where my single issue is the long-term future of humanity. And I believe that the only way humanity can thrive is with the greatest number of people possible having maximum knowledge and understanding, and maximum ability to do something about it.

      Essentially, my single-issue is actually composed of maximum government transparency, socialism (progressive taxes including capital gains, social welfare, healthcare, etc), freedom of speech, individual right to privacy, civil rights, public education, and a stop to horrible military ventures for profit.

      Which means there's no chance in hell I would ever vote for any right-wing candidate in America, since they're 100% unequivocally opposed to every one of those points. Most of the left is pretty disgusting most of the time, but they at least hit some points occasionally. I'll be voting for Bernie Sanders, who hits about 90% of it, and if it ends up being Hilary I'll probably just not even bother voting, just like in 2012.

    25. Re: Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't actually know what "well regulated" means.

      You also ignore where militia is defined as all males of military serving age (hint: they don't have to be in the military, they are automatically considered part of the militia).

      You have also ignore the other papers written by those same people that created that amendment, which very explicitly spell out what they mean it to achieve.

      Normal people when they find something unclear, will attempt to clarify. Unfortunately there is no help for people that prefer to hold onto notions out of an unfounded fear.

    26. Re: Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well said. People, forget the damn bush vs bamma, dem vs rep nonsense. It's all a big act that has worked WONDERFULLY to turn the rest of us against each other rather than realize who is really behind the curtain.

      Rather than coming together and raising our voices against the corpratocracy that owns and controls BOTH sides, on any given issue, three comments in, and you've got adults acting like school children in a shoving match with personal childish insults.

      WAKE UP people and realize how bad the TPP is, forget your individual differences and rise up to stop it! And after that's done, go tackle other problems.

    27. Re:Ha by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      The corporate influence problem could be attacked by increasing regulation. OR...it could be attacked by cutting back on the regulations that were put in place to serve corporations. Consider pyrimethamine (Daraprim), a cheap generic medication manufactured and used all over the world. But a sudden price increase in the US is now news, because one company bought out the only US supplier of the drug. If Americans were allowed to get their prescriptions filled on the world market, this would never have happened, because on that world market the drug is not "rarely used" and it's made by many suppliers.

    28. Re: Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's an argument I make to all my conservative crazy friends. Obama has generally for things that if anybody else did then they would not oppose. Sure, there are a few token liberal things that don't inconvenience wall street too much, but as a rule it's been just more corporate friendly crap.

      The predictors of passage of this abomination are probably correct. The Republicans will suddenly forget Obama is (allegedly) the enemy because this serves those who bought and paid for them.

    29. Re: Ha by faraway · · Score: 1

      Zontar, I'm quite unsure of how to change my font from monospace.  This is an old account.. Didn't realize that the font bothers you and makes me seem like I am "seeking attention".

      I will try to change my font so you won't be distracted anymore.

    30. Re: Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice try, but that doesn't account for it. There are a lot of federal installations in liberal states too.

      Give it up and admit that your economic ideology is as bankrupt as those red states would be if the actual productive areas of the nation which are less hampered by ignorance didn't fund them.

    31. Re: Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, the solution to the problem is to have a government that represents the people and not the corporations, who are the ones who really screw over everyone.

      That's one reason your argument is utterly wrong. People like you who espouse it always fail to address the fact that left to their own devices corporations will do worse and worse things. Every single time without fail.

      The only thing that can stop that is government in the hands of the people. That is what corporations fear, therefore that is what they need to be given. The well funded 'small government' libertarian movement is a corporate response to that, taking people like you who likely genuinely believe in freedom and turning you into unwitting and unpaid corporate propaganda shills.

    32. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The cognitive dissonance of these moochers is amazing. Against welfare, yet living off of it."

      Not dissonance, human reasoning is much worse than anticipated.

      Science on reasoning:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

    33. The corporate influence problem could be attacked by increasing regulation OR...it could be attacked by cutting back on the regulations that were put in place to serve corporations.

      It can never be solved by increasing regulation because of regulatory capture. That's what economics tells us, and it's also what happens in practice again and again.

      The only solution is to cut back regulations.

    34. Except that all the other candidates ON BOTH SIDES want this exact same thing.

      That's nonsense. Sanders campaigns for a massive expansion of federal power and spending, far greater than other candidates. He is a self-declared socialist; go look up what that actually means.

      You may be cynical and say that they all end up doing the same thing, but if you look through history, that's not true either: there are substantial differences between presidential candidates.

      Finally, "vote for Sanders, he is no worse than the other guys" is hardly a good proposition.

    35. Re:Ha by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      Without addressing the rest of your post - while it's true that the top marginal tax rate was 90% back then, there were so many exemptions that nobody actually paid that rate.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    36. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > And like we did in the 1930s and 1940s, we can use our right to vote to do it again.

      Yeah, maybe we can kick off WWIII so we can stuff our vaults with imperial wealth like we did after WWII, and then buy ourselves a couple great decades. Woot.

      Oh, and the 70s sucked.

    37. Re:Ha by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Finally, "vote for Sanders, he is no worse than the other guys" is hardly a good proposition.

      That's not what I said, and not what I meant.

      Frankly I like Sanders' policies (not all of them) and see him as a hell of a lot better than the other candidates on both sides.
      There are over a million people who've donated to Bernie Sanders, and he isn't taking money from any SuperPACs. Like it or not, you have to respect that so many people like what he's saying enough to send him money.

      Hillary Clinton is a fascist and a war monger. She voted for the war AND for the PATRIOT act. Sanders voted against both of them. That counts for something with me.

      Clinton is a serial liar and a crook, and if she didn't brand herself a "Democrat", you'd swear she was a Republican.

      As for the Republicans, the entire Republican field is nothing but an disorganized array of theocratic, right-wing whackos who are begging to suck the dick of every corporate entity from Boston to Barstow, and they aren't even shy about it.

      They all want to impose their version of Christian sharia on the country, and many of them talk endlessly about how god "guides their decisions", etc etc etc. Santorum would turn this country back 1,000 years. Huckabee would put every non-believer to the sword of he could, and the rest aren't that much better. Is that what you want?

      Don't like Sanders? Then don't vote for him. Spend your vote on whoever you like. I'll be voting for Bernie if I get the chance.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    38. Re:Ha by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      And your solution

      Actually I didn't propose a solution at all. Further more I don't even know a solution which could possibly be proposed compatible within our current system of government.

    39. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'M SOLIDLY WITH YOU!

    40. Re: Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bark Obama is a banana republican, bruised on the outside, yellow inside.

    41. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually I didn't propose a solution at all. Further more I don't even know a solution which could possibly be proposed compatible within our current system of government.

      You said you voted for Sanders because he is "far better" than the alternatives:

      I vote for whomever I think will do the best job for the country even if it goes against my personal self interests. This time it'll probably be Bernie Sanders regardless of what the media says or how much they smear him. ... Of course not, but IMHO he's far better than any of the Republicans and far better than Hillary or Biden or whoever the Democrats dig up next.

      I've never found an apt description for my political flavor, I suppose it'd be something like a "slightly-conservative-liberal" or "almost-social-democrat"

      Fascist-leaning seems to describe you pretty well.

    42. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Frankly I like Sanders' policies (not all of them)

      You mean Sanders' policies like government intervention in the market, health care, retirement, publishing and education for the purpose of ensuring fairness, ensuring that labor gets compensated fairly, that people don't just get wealthier because they have money, that media don't smear politicians and don't lie about established science?

      Sanders could have said: "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." Go look up who actually said it. And then look up the "25 Point Program" and compare it with Sanders' program and notice how at least half the points align.

      Hillary Clinton is a fascist and a war monger.

      Those so-called "policies" sound good to you because you fail to understand that they are empty promises, and that they inevitably lead to economic disaster and worse. I'm afraid Sanders is the fascist, and like all fascists, he rises to power on a program of right wing populism.

    43. Re:Ha by 7-Vodka · · Score: 0

      I'll just leave this right here...

      http://tomwoods.com/d/bernie.p...

      --

      Liberty.

    44. Re:Ha by Chris+Johnson · · Score: 2

      You mean Sanders' policies like government intervention in the market, health care, retirement, publishing and education for the purpose of ensuring fairness, ensuring that labor gets compensated fairly, that people don't just get wealthier because they have money, that media don't smear politicians and don't lie about established science?

      Those so-called "policies" sound good to you because you fail to understand that they are empty promises, and that they inevitably lead to economic disaster and worse. I'm afraid Sanders is the fascist, and like all fascists, he rises to power on a program of right wing populism.

      Why yes, those policies. Most notably, government intervention in the market. At this point, I think it's empirically proven that free markets are a complete disaster in practice and lead to economic disaster and worse. I think Enron is a great poster child for deregulation, and if you don't like that example wait five minutes. As for Sanders being right wing populism, I wonder if you're suffering from wing dyslexia?

      People have a tendency to go, NOOOO you can't intervene in the sacred free market, it's so much more complicated, there will be disaster and badness and it's awful and you must instead remove even MORE regulations and controls and trust in the freeness of the freeing! Because it's so very complicated and you don't understand it ACtually and just shut up and let the smart people tell you how the future will be great if you just happen to do things that will profoundly tilt things to the currently rich and powerful!

      Nope, Don't trust Enron (or Uber, or Twitter) to tell you what economic disaster is. Promises are only empty when you talk yourself out of doing them. Have a listen to Nick Hanauer sometime, he might save your ass, that's a very rich person who is loudly demanding that people get a clue before society inevitably breaks out the guillotines.

      And intervening in the free market is as simple as bringing down a public shooter. Hire people, give them badges and weapons, and make it their job to identify the guy who's killing less-powerful, innocent or unrelated people and remove that guy from that situation. That's civilization. The idea that in a market, which is a human invention, we can't have civilization, is a crazy dumb idea. That's where we need civilization MOST, because it matters how it works.

    45. Re: Ha by Chris+Johnson · · Score: 1

      This. Can we please let certain things on a governmental, national scale EMPLOY economies of scale? There's a bridge in my own home town that needs rebuilding. Because it's not in service, I'm driving across two shitty railroad tracks both ways twice a week going to some meetings.

      I've already lost one car to the cumulative damage caused by this, and I don't see local businesses setting up some sort of piggy bank to repair the bridge because the ones served by the out-of-service bridge are economically harmed by the changed traffic pattern and they're least able to take action, plus the scale of the rebuild is beyond their abilities even if regulation allowed J. Random Store to build a bridge linking a road to an interstate highway, whether or not they had the least idea how to build bridges.

      Not the same issue as the healthcare, but also an infrastructure problem. We need government to do civic projects like this and take on things like national healthcare, or the things will not get done at all. It is wildly more expensive to make a 'market' out of some stuff. Certain people get rich doing it, but generally things just don't get done and we continue to decline towards cold war Soviet-level collapse. I guess communism and capitalism are so very unlike each other that they end up acting exactly the same. Only the names have changed.

    46. Re: Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Also chance of Sweden getting envaded at any time or become a dictatorship are 100% at some point in time. Chance of happening in the USA are zero ever been cause everyone has at least one gun .I personally have two handguns, four rifles and 1000 rounds of ammo . times I been shot in USA zero times shot in middle East twice ... So I think I'll stay here right in the USA .

    47. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      America has been run by republicasns for the most part of the last 30 years, in large part because oif the claim that emocrat policies will " inevitably lead to economic disaster ". Yet these republican neoclassical economical policies HAVE led America into financial ruin. Isn't it a casre of the pot calling the kettle blsck. Obama hasn't been practicing normal democratic economic policies either, so he;'s hardly a good example of democratic economics either. He's invented a new form of US government, in fact., Government by executive order...

    48. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New Jersey ... McGuire AFB, Fort Dix, Lakehurst Naval Station
      New York ... West Point ... home of the United States Military Academy
      Maryland ... Annapolis ... home of the United States Naval Academy
      California ... Edwards Air Force Base ... home of the Air Force Test Center, Materiel Command, and a NASA research center
      California ... San Diego Naval Base ... home to more than 50 naval ships
      Hawaii ... Pearl Harbor .. command center of the US Pacific Fleet

      See? It's easy to cherry pick data points that match your argument. I'll wait for your response where you try to explain that all of the above aren't "real" military installations.

    49. Re:Ha by Calavar · · Score: 2

      Okay then, let's look just at welfare data:

      States with the highest percentage of food stamps recipients:
      1. Mississippi (22%)
      2. New Mexico (21%)
      3. West Virginia (20%)

      Yup, nothing to do with welfare. /sarcasm And before you blame black people and illegal immigrants, in all of these states the majority of welfare benefits go to white people.

    50. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're mad at Obama, you must try to open your eyes. I'm 100% opposed to Republican views (1) and yet I don't think Obama acts too far from what a Republican would do.

      That's because both parties are full of power-crazed psychopaths. The only difference is which lies they tell.

      what you say is like a breath of fresh air! there are so many people that dont get it, dems/reps....same same same!!!! and have been for many years now, and i am 62yrs young. lost uncle in WWll, moms brother. his other brother, and my other uncle was also in WWll. sorry to say, doesnt seem we headed off this road we been on any time soon. others are saying, russia gona invade Isreal, USA, RUSSIA, CHINA, we gona have a nuke war! will it happen, perhaps, there is sure nothing i can do to stop it.

    51. Re:Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and...how the hell did i get to be>>> Anonymous Coward ? there is still so much about pc's and the WWW i dont understand, and perhaps never will.

    52. Re: Ha by baristabrian · · Score: 1

      Hear, hear!

      --
      -- "I'm not in a hurry; I'm in Hawaii." The Homeless Guy
    53. Re: Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This will not interview with me getting the next iPhone? That's what I'm really concerned about.

    54. Re:Ha by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Man-Man sex and Abortion (and meaningful gun control) are all settled issues barring a constitutional amendment, so I urge anyone not to vote on the basis of these issues, because they aren't changing anytime soon.

      Heller was a 5 to 4 decision so your meaningful gun control is just one justice away.

  21. Yes, but you must face a brutal fact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Obama and his people in the Commerce and State departments (which he, as President, appointed and controls) are the ones who have (A) Negotiated this deal, (B) classified it to prevent the public from reading it, and (C) demanded the TPA bill earlier this year to put it on a fast-track to fly through congress without proper Constitutional scrutiny.

    Sadly, "establishment" Republicans in congress (bribed by the same firms that funded Obama's rise to power) ignored their base voters and let him have TPA, and will do everything they can to pass TPP...... but There would BE no TPA or TPP without team Obama writing them and demanding them!

    This is broadly about multinational corporations (and their billionaire owners and investors) freeing themselves of national boundaries and rules - but at the core of it are the multinational entertainment companies and their lobbying groups like the MPAA which are every bit as much of the core of the modern Democrat party as trial lawyers, government employee unions, and gay marriage advocates - separating this from Obama would be like separating George W Bush from the NRA, social conservatives, or defense contractors, etc.

    1. Re: Yes, but you must face a brutal fact by macsimcon · · Score: 1

      As a liberal, the Tea Party Republicans are our best hope of defeating the TPP, because they hate it too.

      And the next Speaker of the House is going to have to have the Tea Party's agenda in order to get elected Speaker.

  22. Well, the good news is by Kevin+Fishburne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I can and will circumvent any technological or legal obstacles they can dream of, and they can all go fuck themselves. At some point they're going to run out of dimwits who don't know how to use encryption, VPN, tor, i2p, freenet, bittorrent, etc., and their entire consumer base will have collapsed with a mighty "ARRR!!!" How's that for an end game, you short-sighted, unimaginative, greedy bitches?

    --
    Buy your next Linux PC at eightvirtues.com
    1. Re:Well, the good news is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Idiot. it criminalizes all that shit. Welcome to your new prison sentence.

    2. Re:Well, the good news is by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      A law that cannot be enforced is worthless. TOR and the like are designed to operate in countries where their use is illegal.

    3. Re:Well, the good news is by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Don't forget retroshare - it's good if you've a couple of friends with plenty to share.

    4. Re:Well, the good news is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd have to just blanket ban all encrypted traffic to be able to prevent the usage of VPNs and i2p in their current forms.

      If that happens, such technologies will just obfuscate their encrypted traffic. Steganography techniques would be used to make encrypted traffic pass DPI monitoring.

    5. Re:Well, the good news is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not if those things are declared illegal, maybe with exceptions for business larger that XYZ. When an IP address becomes enough to personally ID you, when everyone must use trusted certificates and the root certificates are compromised, when....

      Though none of that really matters if you stop using their products. At the end of the day they're still just businesses. Go local, second hand, or go without.

    6. Re:Well, the good news is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'll be able to destroy entire governments. Do you think you're immune? Or do you think you're irrelevant?

    7. Re:Well, the good news is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you'll prove them right, which will give them the ammo to take more drastic steps. Public executions for those scurvy DRM-defying pirates!

  23. TPP Packs by CanEHdian · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I strongly suggest that, in countries that will see their public domains turned back 20 years, electronic distributors of public domain works create a special "TPP Pack" -- a collection of works that are currently in the public domain, but will revert back to copyrighted status. This will give everyone enough time to download these packs before the TPP is ratified.

    And I'm not getting any financial compensation for the fact that works I purchased, with the understanding that they would become public domain within the next two decades, will now not become so, and I'm sure that are those who are seniors and perhaps will never see those works enter the public domain during their remaining lifetime. Speaking of which, once those Generation Typewriter are removed from the voting constituents, perhaps Digital Issues will become more important and we will finally see copyright term reductions. Of course, retroactively, and without compensation as well.

    PS why wasn't this included in the Canadian Government's "TPP summary"?

    --
    When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
    1. Re:TPP Packs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "perhaps Digital Issues will become more important and we will finally see copyright term reductions. Of course, retroactively, and without compensation as well."

      Not a chance in hell.

      Copyright started off at 14 odd years because it was considered to be sufficient time for the slow distribution channels of those times to properly get the products out to all the markets. That was a long time ago. A VERY long time ago. Distribution has gotten faster and faster since then to the point where they can now distribute something worldwide on the same day.

      But copyright terms only get longer and longer. They spent good money on lawyers and lobbyists to get the powers they enjoy today. They won't let them go willingly, and they have more resources than the average person. (And in some cases, more than entire countries.)

  24. To me, the U.S. government seems corrupt. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 5, Informative

    "90% of the things I buy to live (Food, Toiletries, shelter) are owned and made by 13 companies."

    It seems that the U.S. government now only helps rich people become richer. There is no democracy.

    Companies That Control the World's Food (That is the 2nd page of the article.)

    Food Processing's top 100

    1. Re:To me, the U.S. government seems corrupt. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Democracy has always been a farce. George Washington thought he could prevent partisanship by telling people not to do that. Doesn't work. Political parties pushing their particular agendas and lying to voters about them is simply the way democracy works. Democracy works on lies and it should surprise no one that the government lies and disappoints. That's what it's there to do you voter.

    2. Re: To me, the U.S. government seems corrupt. by macsimcon · · Score: 1

      What a bunch of defeatist bullshit.

      It's a specious argument to assert that democracy runs on lies in the U.S.; in European democracies the electorate is both educated and engaged, and does a terrific job reigning in their government abuses compared to the unfettered power we give abusers in the U.S.

      And it wasn't always this way! Under Reagan, Bill Black put tons of bankers in jail for the S&L failures, while Bush and Obama did practically nothing to the bankers who wrecked our economy.

      American democracy doesn't run on lies, but on the ignorance, apathy, and helplessness of the American voter.

  25. Or just be patient. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If you wait a year or two, you can buy anything for dirt cheap.

    DVDs are just a couple of bucks once they aren't popular anymore. Same for games (hate Steam for the DRM, love it for the two-dollar games that are actually good). MP3s are just a couple of bucks new, in fact.

    Seriously, when stuff is that cheap, I don't care that I must pay for it.

  26. The Economist on TPP and patents by Beeftopia · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Economist is a very pro-business magazine. Here's what they said about patents and the TPP:

    "The cost of the innovation that never takes place because of the flawed patent system is incalculable. Patent protection is spreading, through deals such as the planned Trans-Pacific Partnership, which promises to cover one-third of world trade. The aim should be to fix the system, not make it more pervasive."

    -- The Economist, "Time to fix patents", 8 August 2015

    1. Re:The Economist on TPP and patents by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      The only people surprised by this are the useful idiots who actually believe--get this--that patents encourage innovation.

      I mean, I know it's hard to believe anyone would fall for that crap, but some really do. We even get some posting around here now and again.

    2. Re:The Economist on TPP and patents by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      Patents can actually serve their purpose. Most of the pharmaceutical industry is built around patents - companies spend vast amounts of money on research to get them. They are evil greedy mega-corps, of course, but that doesn't matter: Their drugs still keep people alive regardless of the motivation for their creation.

      Part of the reason patents do more good than harm is their duration - it's long enough to be beneficial, but not so long that the costs outweigh the benefits. Copyright, on the other hand, has an utterly ridiculous duration.

      The biggest problem with patents comes from a poor approvals process - the patent office is basically stamp that lacks the time or resources to actually validate anything, and so relies on the courts to invalidate patents that should never have been improved in the first place. This has lead to a situation, especially in the technology industry, where companies have an incentive to amass as many patents as possible even for the most ridiculously simple of things (rounded corners, slide-to-unlock) in order to use them as a big hammer to smash competitors with legal costs.

    3. Re:The Economist on TPP and patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Economist is a very pro-business magazine.

      The Economist is a very pro-free-market magazine. When government regulation stifles businesses, they support those businesses against the government. When government regulation supports and entrenches businesses against competition, The Economist opposes those businesses (and the government) in favour of opening up the market.

      Patents have fallen into the latter category for a while now. As the article you linked mentions, a century ago The Economist was in favour of abolishing patents outright.

    4. Re:The Economist on TPP and patents by delt0r · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Having worked for big pharma, that is more than enough proof that patents should be abolished. Oh but it cost so much to get a drug to market you say. They don't pay for that, government grants and university "collaborations" do. But who will make our drugs? Well for a start we may actually get drugs that are useful and help, and will even be given only to patients that need them. Secondly we will get rid of the "Shut up and take our fucking pills" pharma medicine. It is like homeopathy. Only with real side effects.

      http://dilbert.com/strip/2009-...

      Burning all the big pharma to the ground would increase the health of the general public.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    5. Re:The Economist on TPP and patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Their drugs still keep people alive regardless of the motivation for their creation."

      But not at any price.

      And it continues...

    6. Re:The Economist on TPP and patents by fnj · · Score: 2

      Patents can actually serve their purpose. Most of the pharmaceutical industry is built around patents - companies spend vast amounts of money on research to get them. They are evil greedy mega-corps, of course, but that doesn't matter: Their drugs still keep people alive regardless of the motivation for their creation.

      But at what cost? To the unfortunate individual, and to society?

      I won't buy that, forgive me, pablum. The capitalist system with patents does indeed get the development money spent - but then it allows somebody to make a selfish profit off people's misfortunes. The most profitable opportunities are pursued, not the most crying needs. It's only an accident if they coincide. An authority could be set up to do the research with only the reward of fair and normal salary, not a reward of striking it rich. Money would not be funneled to the 1%.

  27. Lotta lobbying went on too by Beeftopia · · Score: 1

    Millions spent by 487 organizations to influence TPP outcome

    Kneel before the god of free trade.

    I look forward to discovering the unexpected surprises in this thing.

    1. Re:Lotta lobbying went on too by tsa · · Score: 1

      As if the expected surprises aren't bad enough already.

      --

      -- Cheers!

  28. They ignored the LAW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't start claiming its you vs the law now, this committee was given a limited mandate to negotiate a TRADE agreement, not define laws that violate basic human rights.

    Yet they put clauses that attack journalism and free speech, which many countries (including the US) cannot legally implement. Clauses that define criminal punishment regimes are not trade agreements, and the blanket data exchanges would be a violation of privacy right.

    We need to dump the whole thing, stop secret negotiations, if it can't pass public scrutiny then its not DEMOCRATIC. There is nothing about trade that needs to be secret by its nature and a secret negotiation of a trade agreement is an anathema.

  29. Trump hates this and this will kill jobs and worke by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    Trump hates this and this will kill jobs and workers rights.

    The new min wage can now be say chinas minimum wage

  30. There's no interface for resistance by istartedi · · Score: 1

    Said before and will probably say again, these laws are designed to eliminate interfaces of resistance. What? Well, take segregation for example. There was an obvious point of resistance: sit at a lunch counter, take a bus, get arrested.

    Now take most of these trade agreements. There's no obvious point of resistance for ordinary citizens. Stuff just gets more expensive and/or inferior. Stuff that used to exist disappears. Products come with "features" that spy on you, and there's no alternative. There's no point of resistance, and it's too difficult to build any consensus for boycott like there was with segregated buses.

    It's as if TPTB studied civil disobedience and figured out how to eliminate the traction surfaces where resistance is applied.

    IMHO, it has to get worse before it gets better. At some point, they run out of smooth surfaces. The temptation to oppress in places where resistance is more obvious becomes too great for them, and then we have a flash-point.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:There's no interface for resistance by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      There's one point of resistance: For all the provisions of TTP, the impact on illegal downloading isn't going to be great. Protest by getting those illegal files and sharing them even more, and by teaching others to do the same. Fill USB sticks and leave them in public places. Paste magnet links to good torrents on public boards.

    2. Re:There's no interface for resistance by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You may rest assured that cracking those spying provisions and removing them will be illegal. There's some pretty big area you can resist here.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:There's no interface for resistance by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Hmm... I wonder which FOSS application is going to be first sued out of existence because they eliminate a portion of anticipated market share for some proprietary alternative. It would not surprise me if someone tried. If what I've read is accurate (and it may not be) they might actually have a case.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  31. You still sleep. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You encourage others to become aware of how they are played by their corrupt leaders. I encourage you to study your history, and see the big picture.

    Our situation was not caused by a recent bad crop of politicians. Our situation is part of a cycle that has been repeating since the dawn of recorded history. I see no reason to expect that it should change now.

    In fact, the only thing that has changed is technology level. Likely, that is the only thing that will change in the foreseeable future. If there is any hope of breaking the familiar human cycle of governance, the game-changer will be in our technology. But enough speculation...

    Wealth and power corrupt, by their nature. And they are sought most vigorously by the already-corrupt. The net effect is that all world leaders seek primarily to serve themselves, and secondarily to serve their contemporaries (other aristocrats). They only serve the masses inasmuch as they must in order to further their own agendas. Throw them all out, and whoever you replace them with will be just the same. If they are not just the same, they will either become so, or will be politically outmaneuvered by someone who is just the same, with an obvious net effect.

    You can't change this by shouting "wake up" at ordinary people. Nor can you change this by political action. You can't change this, period. The only thing you can do is apply political force, to ensure that your own agenda is in their best interest. This is done by funding lobbies, and organizing grassroots movements to encourage the poor to vote as a group on the issue. Apart from becoming an aristocrat yourself (no easy task, since they are not at all keen on sharing power), these are the only means available to you.

    Beyond that, all you can do is recognize your place in the cycle, and adapt to it. Failing to do so will just create friction for yourself and others.

    1. Re:You still sleep. by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Not true. There have been many periods of good political order. It has to be started, then it will slowly roll back around to shit, but people can get it started.

  32. Your "laws" (legislation) ignore my rights by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

    Right off the bat, legislation is confused with natural laws, a prime error. Then legislation that contradicts foundational principles in increasing degree is still called "law". In the end, we have chaos and tyranny. Such legislation has no inherent moral authority, but suckers enough people to create hesitation over the resistance and counteraction needed to really put an end to "enforcement" of such (tyrannical) "laws".

  33. Scary by tsa · · Score: 1

    This is seriously scary, the more so because the EU is negotiating this in secret behind closed doors,which is apparently possible for a democratically chosen government.

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re: Scary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The EU Commission is not "democratically elected". Which is as it should be. People don't know what is good for them. We Europeans know that. People need guidance and purpose. That is why a technical oligarchy is the best form of government. Democracy is a delusion and a sham. We wouldn't have the EU - the greatest institution the world has ever known - if it were up to "the people".

  34. Whats it going to take to get Hollywood out? by jonwil · · Score: 1

    Whats it going to take to get governments in this world (USA, EU, Australia, New Zealand etc) that AREN'T being run by Hollywood and the big media companies?

    1. Re:Whats it going to take to get Hollywood out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cretins in government currently answer to money. Take the money away from Hollywood, or somehow take money out of politics. Or, give the cretins more incentive to answer to the people than money could ever provide.

  35. Cheers from the Netherlands by hooiberg · · Score: 1

    The Dutch are all very much against this. However, the Dutch goverment is orgasming in ecstacy that it may be wagging it's tail and sitting on the US's lap even closer. So we are doomed.

    1. Re:Cheers from the Netherlands by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Long live the resistance.

  36. Take advantage of it; copyleft by bug1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Copyleft uses the power of copyright to subvert its common intent.

    By giving copyright holders more powers, maybe we can now do more savage things to corporate violators, like send them jail.

    Perhaps we need an anti-TPP software licence to take advange of this new power.

    The harder they squeeze....

    1. Re:Take advantage of it; copyleft by sconeu · · Score: 2

      Aren't they cute when they're naive?

      Laws are to be used by the $BIGCORPS against ordinary people, not the other way around.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  37. Fuck the TPP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Filesharing and ripping of DVDs and Bluray discs will continue unabated and there is NOTHING any of these assholes in suits can do to stop it. "You can't stop the signal, Mal." It'll go underground, to handing off USB flash drives if nothing else. Tor will be leveraged more and more. They can squeeze tighter and tighter and more of it will slip through their fingers, just like always.

    Of course this all assumes Congress votes for the goddamned thing. Call you congressperson and tell them HELL, NO!

  38. I'm not so sure by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    The US Gov't still does a lot of things to help the poor. Studies show that anti-poverty programs work. The Sentiments your expressing are just playing into the hands of the 1%ers who want to cut those programs without touching their own. Gov't is a dangerous tool like fire and guns. You regulated it and control it, but you don't just cast it aside.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:I'm not so sure by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Studies show that anti-poverty programs work.

      They "work" only in the sense that if you give people enough money, they temporarily don't meet the financial criteria for poverty. But that's not "working" in any useful sense. In reality, the poverty rate in the US was steadily declining until the war on poverty started. Since then, the poverty rate has fluctuated between 10-15%, with no further overall decline. At the same time, means-tested welfare spending has risen sharply (in constant dollars), meaning that these anti-poverty programs require more and more spending just to maintain the status quo, and that spending is largely financed by borrowing and can't be sustained in the long term.

      Anti-poverty programs have been an utter failure. Giving people more and more money doesn't work in meaningfully reducing poverty; all it does is alleviate some of the symptoms of poverty.

    2. Re:I'm not so sure by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      So, what your saying is, "those poors that got given money still aren't as good as me" (it has a redneck accent in my mind).

      The turnover rate of welfare tends to disprove your theories. Give me a citation for decreasing poverty pre-New Deal. You won't find one, there was this thing called the great depression...
      It was preceded by the market crash of 1890... Read some history, I recommend the financial historian Frederick Lewis Allen. The stuff he wrote in the 1930's rings true today. His analysis of 1920, could have been written about 2000.

    3. Re:I'm not so sure by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      The turnover rate of welfare tends to disprove your theories. Give me a citation for decreasing poverty pre-New Deal.

      You're confusing the New Deal with the War on Poverty. I said that the War on Poverty was a failure, and it clearly was, since poverty rates stopped going down just as it got started:

      http://www.heritage.org/resear...

      (The Great Depression itself was the result of failed government policies, and the New Deal hindered rather than helped recovery, but that's another argument.)

      Read some history, I recommend the financial historian Frederick Lewis Allen. The stuff he wrote in the 1930's rings true today.

      A lot of progressive drivel from the 1930's "rings true today" to many people; that doesn't make it right. I suggest you upgrade your reading.

    4. Re:I'm not so sure by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Heritage foundation, that's all I need to know... The stuff I cited is hardly progressive drivel. It rings true because it happened, that it's happenened again is really a foregone conclusion, but you can learn alot by studying what happened that time.

      Or, you an dismiss it because you are way to smart and you have solid conservative leadership. (basically, your a dumbass)

    5. Re:I'm not so sure by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Heritage foundation, that's all I need to know...

      I pointed to that article for two reasons. First, it contains raw data supporting my point: the poverty rate was falling just until the "War on Poverty" started. That's just an economic fact, independent of whatever interpretation the Heritage Foundation puts on it. Second, I wanted to see whether you are a partisan bigot, and your response suggests you are. Thanks for the confirmation.

      The stuff I cited is hardly progressive drivel.

      You stated " Read some history, I recommend the financial historian Frederick Lewis Allen. The stuff he wrote in the 1930's rings true today. His analysis of 1920, could have been written about 2000." Fact is, Allen was the editor of Harper's Magazine and a part time historian. Even if he had been an economist, in 1930, there was neither the data nor the economic theory to even begin to make sense of the New Deal or the Great Depression; what Allen wrote may appeal to you, but other than that, it's irrelevant. Even today, contrary to what you imply, there is no agreement among economists about the causes or consequences of the Great Depression or the New Deal.

    6. Re:I'm not so sure by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      His analysis of the great depression in 1930, stops short. His analysis of it in a later book is decent, although he knows it's incomplete.
      His analysis of the times leading up to the collapse and the runaway 1920's are spot on, and what I"m referring to.

    7. Re:I'm not so sure by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      His analysis of the times leading up to the collapse and the runaway 1920's are spot on, and what I"m referring to.

      We were discussing the efficacy of the War on Poverty. A historian from the 1930's has nothing relevant to say about that. Many of the fiscal and social consequences of welfare programs take many decades and several generations to manifest themselves.

    8. Re:I'm not so sure by pnutjam · · Score: 1
      I was referencing the cyclical nature of history. The only people saying the war on poverty failed, are conservative shills. Every other resource says it's been a wash, it hasn't failed, but it hasn't been won. Your point:

      They "work" only in the sense that if you give people enough money, they temporarily don't meet the financial criteria for poverty. But that's not "working" in any useful sense.

      is still wrong. If you've ever been in poverty, I guarantee you'll see the difference between suffering from all the symptoms and having some alleviated.
      There is nothing wrong with the bar for poverty raising over time. Even Conservatives claimed "a rising tide lifts all boats". While trickled own fails in that only crumbs trickle down, even those crumbs are worthwhile to the very poor.

    9. Re:I'm not so sure by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Every other resource says it's been a wash, it hasn't failed, but it hasn't been won.

      You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. And the fact is that the poverty rate was declining steadily before the war on poverty started, and it stopped declining right after the war on poverty started. The clearly means it has failed to achieve what it set out to achieve. That's what "failure" means.

      If you've ever been in poverty, I guarantee you'll see the difference between suffering from all the symptoms and having some alleviated.

      The stated goal of the War on Poverty wasn't to alleviate the effects of poverty, it was to reduce the causes of poverty, singe parenthood, lack of education, drugs, and crime. And it hasn't been achieving that. Observing that fact--and it is a fact--doesn't imply anything per se about policy.

      (Incidentally, I grew up outside the US, with my family income below the American "poverty line".)

      The only people saying the war on poverty failed, are conservative shills.

      You need to look up the term "shill" because you obviously don't understand what it means. I don't pretend to be neutral on economic matters, which is what a "shill" would be, and neither are other economic conservatives, we are outspoken supporters of free markets.

      But that isn't even the issue here, because I haven't even advocated the abolishment of welfare or government assistance. But I do think they need to be reformed. One possibility would be to replace the current mess of benefits with a single, well-defined cash benefit, and impose strong requirements on recipients of that benefit, in terms of getting additional training, accepting jobs, and/or community service.

    10. Re:I'm not so sure by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Your cherry picking a 50 year old declaration of "war on poverty", THe people running this "war" have changed and their priorities have gone from helping white families, to helping all non-gay families, to helping all people, with some stops in between that stripped benefits from "druggies", "sluts", etc.

      The whole article you cite is specious.
      The Heritage Foundation is absolutely a shill;
      The person or group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services (or accept the ideas being marketed). Shills are often employed by professional marketing campaigns.

    11. Re:I'm not so sure by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Your cherry picking a 50 year old declaration of "war on poverty", THe people running this "war" have changed and their priorities

      So you are saying that the goals of the "War on Poverty" have shifted, from helping people to achieve economic independence and reducing the poverty rate, to now making them perpetually dependent on government handouts and not reducing the poverty rate? I actually agree: the priorities of the people running this "war" have changed; helping people achieve economic independence and reducing poverty is evidently not a goal anymore. If only they would admit it.

      However, what hasn't changed is the political promises they make: Democrats and progressives still pretend that achieving economic independence and reducing the poverty rate is their goal. They still make the same promises and propose the same policies as Johnson:

      One thousand dollars invested in salvaging an unemployable youth today can return $40,000 or more in his lifetime. [...] Our chief weapons in a more pinpointed attack will be better schools, and better health, and better homes, and better training, and better job opportunities to help more Americans, especially young Americans, escape from squalor and misery and unemployment rolls where other citizens help to carry them. [...] But whatever the cause, our joint federal-local effort must pursue poverty, pursue it wherever it exists—in city slums and small towns, in sharecropper shacks or in migrant worker camps, on Indian Reservations, among whites as well as Negroes, among the young as well as the aged, in the boom towns and in the depressed areas. Our aim is not only to relieve the symptom of poverty, but to cure it and, above all, to prevent it.

      He then goes on to list a litany of policies that could come from the 2016 presidential platforms of Sanders or Clinton, policies that obviously have failed to achieve their goals. If these politicians were honest about the fact that they define "success" in the war on poverty as perpetual, inter-generational dependence on government benefits, their support would drop precipitously.

      have gone from helping white families, to helping all non-gay families, to helping all people,

      So Johnson was lying when he was saying that he wanted to help "Negroes" or "Indians"? Where exactly were these supposedly racist and homophobic restrictions implemented? I wouldn't be surprised to find racist and homophobic policies advocated by Democrats, but if you could point out such policies as part of the original war on poverty, that would be helpful.

      The Heritage Foundation is absolutely a shill;

      Originally, you said everybody who said that the war on poverty failed of being "conservative shills", accusing everybody who takes a different political view from you of being deceptive and being paid, now you backpedal and imply you only meant that to apply to the Heritage Foundation. Just like you tried to turn a statement about the War on Poverty into an argument about the New Deal, or now make bizarre statements about how the War on Poverty was initially some kind of explicitly racist and homophobic endeavor. You keep changing your position, and you are a dishonest debater. (And, no, the Heritage Foundation also doesn't meet the definition of a "conservative shill", for the simple reason that they don't try to hide their conservatism or their funding sources.)

      The whole article you cite is specious.

      You still haven't pointed out any error in their data, their quotes, or their arguments. What is "specious" is your dismissal of the article and its conclusions based on your political prejudices. Nor, for that matter, have you produced any data or argument of your own.

      So, why don't you at least provide some data supporting your statements that (1) "The turnover rate of welfare tends to disprove your theories." and (2) that the original War on Poverty was intended to be white-only and non-gay.

    12. Re:I'm not so sure by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Your all over the place, the heritage foundation is shilling their policy, pretending it is helpful information, when it is biased information intended to push an agenda. They do not title their report, "People who hate spending money on stopping poverty have done research to show how ineffectual it is". That would be honest.
      I don't have the time to break it down, but my point has more to do with the shifting of administrations. Your claiming that johnson, nixon, ford, carter, bush, clinton, bush, obama, and saint raygun were fighting the same fight. They weren't.
      The civil rights movement happened after the declaration of war on poverty. Gay rights are just now being recognized.
      The "create dependence on government" junk you are spouting is junk. It's creating dependence when you give someone cash assistance that they can only receive for afew years in a lifetime, but not when you use monetary policy to hand out free money to banks to lend? I think the debate over how slowly to raise interest has shown a clear dependency of business.

    13. Re:I'm not so sure by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Your all over the place, the heritage foundation is shilling their policy, pretending it is helpful information, when it is biased information intended to push an agenda.

      I cited the Heritage foundation for their graph on poverty rates, which by themselves show that the War on Poverty has failed to achieve its stated objectives. You have identified no factual errors or biases in that graph. In fact, you can find the same data in many other places. I just cited this paper because it also happens to give you a lot of additional information, but that additional information isn't relevant to the fundamental conclusion that the War on Poverty has failed.

      So far, you have provided no data or facts at all. All you do is engage in ad hominems, fabrications, strawmen, and red herrings.

      The civil rights movement happened after the declaration of war on poverty. Gay rights are just now being recognized.

      Your point being what? You erroneously claimed that welfare priorities "have gone from helping white families, to helping all non-gay families, to helping all people", with no evidence to support that statement. Neither the civil rights movement nor the gay rights movement has anything to do with who welfare was targeted at.

      It's creating dependence when you give someone cash assistance that they can only receive for afew years in a lifetime,

      Yes. One of the strongest predictors of whether someone receives government assistance is whether parents received government assistance. That's true in both the US and Europe, and it's true even when correcting for other factors.

      but not when you use monetary policy to hand out free money to banks to lend?

      Of course it does: handouts to businesses make businesses dependent on such government handouts as well, and it is bad for those businesses and bad for economy.

      (And it's largely the same political groups who are pushing for both individual and corporate welfare.)

    14. Re:I'm not so sure by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      My larger point continues to elude you. I don't object to the data from your graph. I object to the conclusions, which I have refuted. Half-assing something, letting poeple sabotage it, then claiming it is a failure. That is the hall mark of conservatism in America.

    15. Re:I'm not so sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I object to the conclusions, which I have refuted

      "Refuting" something would require data and/or an argument; you have provided neither.

      My larger point continues to elude you.

      It doesn't elude me at all. Your mix of delusions and misrepresentations are tired and old; it's the typical progressive drivel that comes from self-righteous privileged American males like you.

    16. Re:I'm not so sure by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Your original conclusions are not data derived. You have one data point, poverty levels have not decreased. You use this data point to draw out a bunch of conclusions based on your own socioeconomic experience. I don't claim to be right, just that you are wrong. I'm not interested in dueling graphs, only in opening your mind a bit.

      I see I've failed, but I take comfort in knowing I'm not the first.

  39. You seem to forget that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the little midget, Mr 4th Reich, helped create the mess. It was under HIS watch in the Clinton administration, under the banner of "the Cold War is over" that many of the security-of-the-west-based restrictions on international trade and labor collapsed, and the crony capitalism went into overdrive. As the internet bubble of the 90's created a false sense of a booming economy, manufacturers took advantage of the more-open trade rules to export labor in an attempt to match the (often illusory) stock returns of all those suddenly-popular dot-com stocks. Large employers of the middle class who had long posted respectable returns while paying good wages were suddenly seen as "losers" by investors who saw pets.com booming, and with employees as some of their biggest expenses and the sudden availability of slave labor in China, well.... it's now hard for a two-earner family to live with only two kids where it was once possible for a family of six to get by on one income.

    The opening trade rules with China, no-doubt greased by all those fund raisers Hillary Clinton, Al Gore and others in the admin were holding, combined with all that Wall St banker cash flowing into the Clinton machine, generated benefits so obvious that many businesses and industries that had never before paid for lobbyists in DC suddenly started having lobbyists. When you add-in the massive piles of regulations Mr Reich and his pals in the Clinton admin put in place (many with start dates set for after Clinton left office so the negative effects would kick-in after he was gone and the public would misplace the blame) nearly all of which can be evaded if you can buy the right lobbyists and congress critters, this self-serving economics troll should learn to have at least a micron of introspection.

    There's enough blame to go around in the corruptocrats of BOTH parties in DC, but it's particularly obscene when a goose-stepping little socialist troll who usually confines his propaganda to the mush-headed young morons in his classrooms steps out into public to shovel his garbage with the expectation that the general public has forgotten him and just how destructive he and his ilk are. The American economy will likely never return to Reagan era rates of growth as long as the millstones put in place by Herr Reich and his dear leader (and now heaped-higher by Obama) are removed from the national neck.

    You STILL do not get it, even though you say that you do...... Globalization is not really "left" nor "right"; it's a play by the super-rich and powerful to escape all limits and controls. They do not care about any particular economic or political system; they know the leaders of any nation with any system will cater to them. What they want is for all governments everywhere to let them move (along with their power and money) across any border at will with no cost, subjecting them to no controls or limits imposed by the little insignificant people (avg citizens/voters). People on the left are fooled into supporting the globalist agenda when their efforts to push leftist dreams like gay marriage or climate change limits etc bang-up against "small-minded" local or national politics (they are encouraged to see globalism as an override). People on the right are fooled into supporting globalization under the monikers of "economic freedom" and liberty and thinking it will be a limit on the socialists. The people pushing globalism have NONE of these things on their minds; they are only thinking of power and money. The populations who let them rig things ever-more in their favor are being foolish.

    Crony capitalism and massive government are conjoined twins. Socialism (which requires massive govt) and globalization (which is wed to international unelected and unaccountable committees and agencies that will only answer to massive governments and oligarchs) are just frosting on that cake that can be used to encourage the would-be victims of these things to buy into them and have no escape hatch.

    1. Re:You seem to forget that by KGIII · · Score: 1

      My memory is a little fuzzy but I seem to recall that the trend towards globalization and open trade policies was pushed by the left. The reason they pushed it was a feel good process. A rising tide raises all ships and those poor people in third world countries are living on less than a dollar a day and need jobs. This will better their lives and give them opportunities they've never had.

      In hindsight, it just looks like they wanted to rape more people (figuratively). A few people have managed to make a little money but not a whole lot has changed except the standard of living here has gone down.

      That (and below) shouldn't be read as an endorsement for the right. Not at all. It should be read as a condemnation of the left. (If you think those are synonymous then stop here.)

      Sometimes, I still see them (the left) cry this tired battle cry. They try to use shame and call it 'protectionism' or 'nationalism' or the likes. To be honest, I don't know their motives nor who has brainwashed them. What's amusing is that they belittle the right for voting for policies or people who will harm them while pushing for those who'd push jobs overseas and reduce the power of the middle class and absolutely destroy those already impoverished in this country. I have to assume that there's some sort of plan here... I'm just not seeing it.

      (This is not the place to interject a reply with a crazy wingnut conspiracy theory. But I am open to any ideas but try to keep them sane. It's probably not the fault of Jews, Masons, One World Order, Lizard People or Aliens.)

      And, before you ask, I'm pretty far left. I support things like single payer health care, easily accessible education, human rights, equality (true equality, not privileges based on innate traits), reasonable taxes on wealth, seeking non-violent solutions, ending the war on drugs and on terrorism, and other lofty goals. I don't have any problem paying my taxes. I do not like how my taxes are spent. I'd happily pay more if they were spent properly. Instead, I make up the difference by donating to worthy causes - much of the donated total is beyond what can be used to reduce my tax burden. I do so because it is my social contract - I'm contractually obligated to contribute even if that contract isn't written. I'm a member, a signatory, of that contract by my presence and participation in society. I give to charities/worthy causes because it is my duty to do so and to help provide for those who can not.

      Yes, yes I am a Libertarian. Sorry for the confusion. Not all Libertarians are insane - just most of them. *sighs* It's a political ideal, not an economic model. But, I've digressed enough and am tired.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  40. No faith. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All I can say about this whole debacle is that many people in my country, which is affected by this, have lost their faith in the government, both ruling party and opposition, and therefore in democracy.

    Approximately 75% of our population is opposed to the TPPA, yet it has been forced through. Ratification of this law was not given mandate in our last election.

    This is an example of downright evil behaviour by the wealthy elite. Foreign corporations now have more rights than the citizen of our nations and may now sue against the decisions of the majority of the people. We have potentially lost our sovereignty.

    And the copyright provisions are the least of our worries, really who cares about that, it's probably the biggest non-issue of the entire agreement.

  41. ANYBODY would have been better than Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even a person randomly selected from off the street by a clown in a blindfold.

    An average person would find it hard to be as corrupt and destructive as a professional "community organizer" with a law degree who was fixated on corruption, taking more money from Wall St than any politician in world history, and well-connected to political activists who agree with him.

    I dislike Romney rather intensely, but he would indeed have been better. Sarah Palin would have been better. John McCain would have probably been as bad as Obama. Seth Rogan would have been better. Jay Leno would have been better. The checkout lady down at my local grocery store would have been a better president, who used the presidency more honestly and responsibly. Even a local kid from the skateboard park would have been more careful and more worried about what he was doing with that power.

    Obama, with many of the actions his supporters either like to ignore or actually foolishly celebrate, went full-on anti-Constitutional and, aided by the liberals on the Supreme Court, has set many precedents that cannot now be easily undone. Any future President of any party will be able to cite the precedents of Obama when he or she completely ignores laws and the congress and does whatever ho or she wants "with a phone and a pen". No Checks. No Balances. Forget all those old civics lessons about co-equal branches of government and forget those old "Schoolhouse Rocks" musical animations.

    The new Obama way we do things in America is with an emperor who spies on everybody without warrants, interprets all laws to mean what he wants and refuses to enforce any he disagrees with, makes international treaties without the Senate, appoints people to positions in government without congressional approval, bans products he dislikes, forces citizens to buy stuff he orders them to buy, orders people to be fined or go to jail if his policies violate their beliefs, throws film makers in jail if they are a convenient excuse for his policy failures, and denounces anybody who disagrees with him as insane or a racist. The left is going to HATE all those precedents if a non-leftist ever takes them and runs with them as ruthlessly as Obama.

    You guys on the left are now reduced to justifying your foolish support for our Maximum Leader and his evil precedents by saying "the other option was worse". You REALLY need to think that through and realize you are admitting you supported total dirtbaggery. The first black American president SHOULD have been recorded in history as a great man (there are some truly honorable black generals, admirals, captains of industry, and even some very decent politicians). Sadly, history will record that the first black American president was an evil divisive racist hack bent on tearing the country down and apart while doing NOTHING to benefit black Americans who have fared worse under him than under either Bush or Reagan.

  42. Nice turn of phrase by mister_playboy · · Score: 1

    Man-Man sex

    I like your phrasing here because it is very accurate. Even the hardcore anti-SSM people don't seem bothered by girl-on-girl. It's the guy-on-guy that enflames their imaginations.

    --
    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    1. Re:Nice turn of phrase by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What on earth compels them so much to stick their noses into other people's buttsex anyway? How would their lives (much less their marriages) be affected by what goes on in other people's bedrooms? In countries that approved gay marriages, life went on, as in, nothing happened, at all.

  43. I found my own way to protest. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

    https://birds-are-nice.me/musi...

    I show how the concept of the public domain has been crushed by demonstrating just how little popular music exists in it.

    I'd call this shameless self-promotion, but I make about £0.03 a month in advertising off that. Factor in that everyone uses ad-blocking here and I might make £0.06 this month if it gets slashdotted. No, I just want to flood the internet with public-domain music in open-standard format.

    1. Re:I found my own way to protest. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your 'protest' is pathetic by the fact that you're supporting the ad industry at the same time. Have some real conviction and give up the "£0.03" if you really want to "flood the internet with public-domain music in open-standard format"

    2. Re:I found my own way to protest. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then perhaps you would do better to make a torrent of the collection, stick a link on your site, and let others help you with the bandwidth requirements.

      That pretty much is a win-win, you still get your message and your ad revenue (as people visit the page to get to the link), but without your bandwidth requirements going through the roof. You could in future even provide higher quality versions, or archival (like FLAC format), with minimal impact on your bandwidth bills.

  44. This will never wash in any democratic country by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Completely hostile to our own people, and utterly ridiculous. It looks like another attempt to extend US law to the civilized world. The United States is now clearly our enemy. We must do everything possible to stop their corrupt corporate dictatorship, subjugating our own government.

    1. Re:This will never wash in any democratic country by StillAnonymous · · Score: 2

      When it comes time for politicians in each country to decide whether to sign or not, then you'll find out which countries really are democratic and which ones have fallen to complete corporate capture.

      This shit is referendum material right off the bat considering its implications. If you don't get that opportunity, it's a sinister foreboding of what's to come.

  45. I agree. Both are happening. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2

    I agree. Both are happening. The corruption and the correct management.

  46. The whole TPP is terrible for any country not US by Spinalcold · · Score: 2

    And Japan. It's not just IP to worry about, it's a whole host of things. Under NAFTA Canada became the most sued country and most of those were to remove our environmental protections. At least we're in an election right now and if we can get the Conservatives out we have at least a HOPE of at least renegotiating it. Then again, a guy I work with just voted (advanced voting) and somehow accidentally checked the wrong box...sometimes I want to give up...

  47. Re:Trump hates this and this will kill jobs and wo by umghhh · · Score: 2

    I do not want to spoil the fun here but China is not party to TTP.

  48. The Government screwed us again?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait, what? I can't believe it, NO!!!!!
    You mean the politicians in charge of the US decided to lie in bed with corporate interests rather than furthering and advancing the rights of the people they were elected to represent?

    Say it ain't so?

    Go take a look at George Carlin's interpretation of what the American Dream is. Wake the fuck up, people, you're being cornholed on a daily basis by these bums!

  49. Read the congressional bill, not leaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The bill itself should be available by the end of this month, has to be publicly available before it can be passed, and is unlikely to be voted on before next year anyway. Cf., http://www.citizen.org/documents/tpp-vote-calendar-october-2-2015.pdf

  50. "It will be not long after ... by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    ... we have written the year 2000, that the world will observe strange things (...) from the West a law which purpose will be to supress all individual thinking ..." - Rudolf Steiner, 1916

    With post 2K Software patents and now this 1984 nightmare of a law package, I'm wondering if this guy actually was on to something.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  51. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  52. Did you know? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you post in fixed-width font, it just makes you look like a moron.

    1. Re:Did you know? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But not as moronic as someone who complains about someone else posting in something other than the default font.

  53. A post-TPP scene of the future by kheldan · · Score: 1

    All of her friends were there, the room decorated with balloons and streamers, an arc of letters proclaiming "Happy Birthday, Jenny!" in purple, her favorite color, the cake chocolate with chocolate frosting, her mother, smiling ear-to-ear at how happy her daughter was to have a room full of people there to honor her on her Special Day. Yet the man in the suit, standing in the corner with his hands at parade rest isn't smiling. Men like him never smiled; they just stand there, expressionless, reactionless, like a Beefeater guard. As everyone starts to sing 'Happy Birthday', the man in the suit notes the time and date, and the exact number of celebrants who are actually singing. All six candles are blown out in one huge breath by little Jenny, to a rousing "Hooray!" from everyone except the man in the suit, cake is cut and shared, presents are opened to the ooohs and aaahs of the children. Some time later, after the children have gone in the other room to play in the manner children play with one another, the man in the suit breaks his discipline and approaches the mother, handing her a clipboard and a pen. "Please sign here, ma'am, to certify your acceptance of the royalties bill. Thank you. We'll expect payment in full within 30 days." Things just weren't the same after the Trans Pacific Partnership agreement went into effect. Even something as simple as singing 'Happy Birthday', which once was put into the public domain, became complicated, as the decision was reversed, the original rights-holder claiming perpetual ownership, and demanding royalties for every 'performance' of the song, even in private venues like little Jenny's birthday party, an event which had to be registered ahead of time, along with a signed statement of intent to perform the song, and a security deposit made against the actual royalties, based on the actual number of participants performing the song on the scheduled date. At least the party wasn't held in a public place, Jenny's mother thinks with a sense of relief; the surcharge in that case would have bankrupted them..

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  54. Europe maybe, not the States :( by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    In the states local markets are few, far between and expensive. It's not about wanting to or not wanting to. It's about how much money you have. 62% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck (look it up). Those extra dollars are the difference between making rent this week and not...

    Also I don't think Heinlein forsaw or could address modern politics, specifically the type created by Karl Rove and Dick Cheney. He mostly focused on economics. That works when you've got a united undercalss. Rove and Cheny did two things. They divided the underclass with wedge issues and and they started using bold lies repeated endlessly to convince folks of those like. Hell, Rove ran a draft dodger against a war hero more than once and one. How the hell do we deal with that?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  55. Irony: Chapter QQ - Imaginary Property by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1
  56. The Debt is a Lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you ever wondered where money comes from? Consider this carefully. Generally, at any given time, there are more dollars in circulation than there were the day before, or the year before, etc. Where did they come from? Who owned them first? Who spent them first?

    I won't give you the answer here because you'll likely not believe it, but I encourage you to look into it.

    If you do, you won't have to wonder why the government is so deeply in debt and getting deeper.

    1. Re: The Debt is a Lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Antone who actually bothers to learn how the money supply is regulated and to understand the difference between money and wealth knows that there is no conspiracy here. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it scary for those who do.

  57. Article Qq.H.2 {Presumptions} by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to the leaked text, in any case of copyright lawsuit or proceedings it is the absence of copyright that has to be proven. Goodie.

    "In civil, criminal, and if applicable, administrative proceedings involving copyright or related rights, each Party [i.e. signatory country] shall provide:

    (b) for a presumption that, in the absence of proof to the contrary, the copyright or related right subsists in such subject matter."

    There's a footnote full of "mays" to it, but we all know how it ends.

    Seriously. You don't have to prove holding the copyright, and the burden of proof is on whatever the other side is?

    W. T. F.

  58. Something both liberals and actual conservatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    both need to learn: that sometimes their different, yet shared, views of freedom and liberty cause them to have more in common than either truly has in common with the bought-by-Wall-St "establishment" monsters in both parties.

    The so-called "moderates" in BOTH parties "run to the left" or "run to the right" in their primaries and make little point of hiding their plans to "run to the middle" in the general and then "be their own man/woman" after being elected. They are spelling it out right in front of you: they will lie to you in the primary, lie to everyone else in the general and then serve Wall St once elected. DUH! These trolls portray themselves as the level-headed "reasonable" ones (that's their campaign tactic) in the hopes you do not notice they have told you explicitly that they do not plan to be trustworthy or to serve you. They simply want to become wealthy and powerful on a career path who's primary qualifications are rhetoric, false smiles, and handshakes - the career involves a few years as a quasi-celebrity with a legal right to do insider trading on Wall St (assisted by "tips" from lobbyists for Wall St) followed by a career as a lobbyist for Wall St.

    Most people would be shocked by the number of congress members and Senators who get elected, move to Washington, and never move back home but instead join or create lobbying firms after they lose reelection (often sharing firms with the very people from the other party they pretended to hate and oppose during their political careers). Toxic levels of corruption.

    You are right that on TPP liberal private sector unions, conservative TEA Partiers, liberal free-speechers, and conservative "obey the actual words of the Constitution!" types are both natural allies AND have the added bonus of being RIGHT (both in the "correct" and in the "moral" sense)

  59. 9-11 has erased the collective memory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People forget that Bush41 hated Reagan and did everything he could to keep Reagan and the Conservatives from winning in 1980. Reagan put him on the ticket as VP to try to heal the party after a bruising 1980 primary - but Bush (and Mitt Romney's dad for that matter) was a pillar of the "establishment" wing of the GOP. When Bush41's son George ran, he did NOT have the backing of conservatives in the GOP who were made super suspicious of him by his dad's phony play at a "third Reagan term" that turned-out to be an establishment GOP resurgence. From 1988-1992 the Bushies packed the GOP leadership with their big-government Republicans (and even today places like Fox News are infested with big government Bushie RINOs rather than actual Conservatives). Bush43 was NOT the choice of Conservatives, he was just the last Republican candidate standing after the usual tidal wave of campaign attacks funded by Wall St supporters of the establishment wing of the party.

    Conservatives really only warmed to Bush43 during the general election because he was the only way to prevent Al Gore from being President - they were very wary of his agenda which was essentially "inject the feds into local schools" (hated by the small-govt conservatives) and "no more nation-building" (intended to be a contrast with Clinton/Gore in places like Somalia and Kosovo, but conservatives were worried it was a soft-on-foreign-policy agenda). Conservatives warmed more to Bush43 after Al Gore tried to drag the election through the courts and all the re-counts in only Democrat districts of Florida with ever-changing-as-needed standards for what constituted a vote ... and MORE supportive when Gore's team went to court to block the absentee ballots of deployed military folks (Gore might as well have physically assaulted Charlton Heston [smile]). Finally, conservative support for Bush43 solidified on 9-11 before all the bodies were even counted when it appeared he might actually have a spine.

    The conservative base of the party, however, never really loved Bush43 and hated many of the non-conservative things he did, like his massive increases in government. The creation of DHS (which concentrated more power in DC), all the warrantless spying (contrary to the plain text of the Constitution), huge new medicaid drug program (Massive and unfunded growth of LBJ social spending) "no child left behind" program (Making local schools the business of the Feds, contrary to the Constitution), Wall St bank bailout (using taxpayer money to bail-out cronies) and initial auto-industry bail-out (more tax money for cronies) are ALL completely contrary to the most-fundamental conservative principles and are what led to the rise of outrage among rank-and-file conservatives and eventual formation of the TEA Party. If you go back and look without partisan goggles, you'll realize that when the TEA Partiers first arose in the eyes of the media who, being mostly Democrats were eager to paint them as rednecks who opposed Obama over his race, their signs and banners and complaints were that the new president was doubling-down on the government growth and crony bailouts of the Bush43 admin - they'd finally had ENOUGH of the crony policies not the particular man.

    The current fight in DC over House Speaker is the result of all those fake conservatives in DC having finally pushed the actual conservatives over the puke-out-the-RINOS threshold. The past decade has firmly-established the fact that RINOS (who campaign as conservatives and then never actually act as Conservatives) are completely worthless and untrustworthy; their actions have the same results as any establishment Democrat would have, thus making them NOT "the lesser of two evils" (from a Conservative perspective).

    and yes, THAT is why Trump is leading and none of the RINOs can take him down by pointing at him and shrieking to the base that "He's not a real Conservative!!!" - the base has realized that there is nothing honest or conservative about the RINOs.

    1. Re:9-11 has erased the collective memory by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      An excellent summary. It's funny how all the establishment both Democrat and Republican are hating on Trump. I don't like him but it makes me want to vote for him because as much as I dislike Trump I despise them.

  60. You elected him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *slow clap* your president ladies and gentlemen *slow clap*

  61. This is no surprise. by TaleSpinner · · Score: 1

    When will we learn that governments cannot be allowed to conspire about anything in secret? You let the government do anything out of public sight and they will fuck the living hell out of voters in order to make every special-interest group ecstatic and fill their campaign coffers.

  62. Re:Trump hates this and this will kill jobs and wo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trump is a psychopathic imbecile. I fully expect he will be elected.