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Fury and Fear In Ohio As IT Jobs Go To India (computerworld.com)
ErichTheRed writes: A company called Cengage Learning now joins the Toys 'R Us, Disney and Southern California Edison IT offshoring club. Apparently, even IT workers in low-cost parts of the country are too expensive and their work is being sent to Cognizant, one of the largest H-1B visa users. As a final insult, the article describes a pretty humiliating termination process was used. Is it time to think about a professional organization before IT goes the way of manufacturing?
Any "American" company or individual that gives away American jobs to foreign countries are traitors to the USA and should be publicly murdered.
You mean "union"? No, thanks. I can take care of myself. I don't need someone to hold my hand.
If by that, you mean "union", then I doubt it. You'd never get enough support from the folks that are still getting paid very well (like me, who lives in Ohio), and aren't being outsourced. There's no business case to do that for anything but level 0 and 1 helpdesk jobs, and not even all of those.
"Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
If they are allowed to do it, then the People want it to be done. Vote or Deal with it.
Yet another company whose stock we can short. Because we all know how well offshoring works.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
any more successful than unions at "saving American jobs"?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
If a "professional organization" means some sort of stupid union, then no. Unions did not prevent outsourcing of US jobs, and cannot. The reality is, if you want substandard work on the cheap, you're always going to get that in India. As my boss says of our products, "(software) products without revenue are built in India, products that make money are built in the US".
We do all the design work in the US, because our 250+ Indian counterparts cannot design anything correctly. They code by trial and error. You'll never have a best-in-class product that way. We just give them menial coding tasks, and even then 1 US engineer is as productive as 3 in India.
- Vincit qui patitur.
Our politicians don't care about the American worker. Our corporations and their willing yes-men lackeys don't care about the American worker.
But the American worker cares about the American worker, and together our shared interests can at least give us a "bargaining stick." Of course we need to be ready to swing the stick if need be to show that it's a real stick and all.
Holy tracking link Batman! Try this one instead:
http://www.computerworld.com/article/3002681/it-outsourcing/fury-and-fear-in-ohio-as-it-jobs-go-to-india.html
When the career path people are looking at the choice between McDonald's or Wendy's, there is going to be an American version of a brain drain.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I think Congress should enact legislation around the matter of doomed workers being forced to train their replacements. That shouldn't be allowed.
More comprehensive legislation preventing employers from moving jobs offshore would do more harm than good. There's no good way of doing that, it would just encourage creativity in matters that don't do the slightest bit of good for anyone except for high-paid lawyers and MBA consultants.
Yeah - in other countries. But don't do all class warfare on them, it's hard being really really rich.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
And here we go...the Race To The Bottom for American jobs. Yippee, thanks Corporate America!
I recommend learning a skill or trade that can't be outsourced. Something that's hands-on, or something that most foreign workers simply can't do very well. (Tech writing and actual physical service work come to mind, but I'm sure there are others.)
This trend won't stop until outsourced workers cost enough to make it economical to hire US workers, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
face facts. use logic. best way to prevent jobs going to non american citizens is to be truly productive and contributing value for money paid, not demanding to be paid more for doing less, than non americans who are deservedly getting these jobs. all other ways including unions are simply welfare leeching on productivity of rest of the world, who has to do the work anyway as always.
One of the major things that Cengage Learning markets is National Geographic Learning for Education. The same National Geographic that just laid off 9% of its workforce after Rupert Murdoch bought them.
Free markets work by encouraging competition. It makes no sense for companies to pay exuberant salaries to U.S. workers when similar results can be had for far less by outsourcing to countries whose citizens expect a standard of living far more meager than Americans. The Prophets promise to trickle upon those who worship at their alters.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Diebold and the human shitstains that run it have already evolved beyond outsourcing to India.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you: INSOURCING to India.
Diebold built a fucking IT headquarters in Hyderabad, filled it with fresh workers, and slowly rotated them over to the US a few at a time so they could get a bit of training. Then, one day, any IT jobs above helpdesk stopped being filled Stateside. Either the positions opened up over there, or the various duties and responsibilities trickled down to the help desk fellows- with no additional pay or job title changes, of course.
I got the fuck out from under that curry ceiling right after they gave me some shiny resume bait extra duties, and never looked back. Got a huge pay boost at my next gig, too, as Diebold also paid way under industry and regional standard ALREADY!
Taking that job during the low point of the recession was the worst mistake I ever made.
How many of them drive cars with foreign name plates? I have a friend who lost his job to someone from India a couple years ago. While we sat at his kitchen table I looked out his front windows at the two Toyota Prii that sat there. I was too polite to say anything.
I don't want to downplay the issue. But... market forces and cheap labor. There are a WHOLE lot of Americans in Vietnam, Korea, China, and South Africa tooling up their auto plants and teaching them to be competitive. Welcome to the real world. H1-B Visas are a red herring, and the sooner IT folks realize it, the better. The bigger problem is all the jobs that are going overseas - but there isn't a fix to that.
Those unions worked great for manufacturing and prevented having those jobs go overseas, didn't they.
A friend of mine who can't get recruiters to leave him alone tells me he makes a point to study weekly, constantly learning. Anyone who is concerned about the level of outsourcing and illegal H1-B usage might keep that in mind.
Will be sealed with the advent of better systems and automation technologies. Most of the jobs that go to India are menial tasks which require no or very little skill .The core stuff still happens in the west. There are extremely few kernel programmers in India. So think these layoffs as having been replaced by a robot.
These decisions are made by accountants and executives looking at spreadsheets. There is no line item for productivity or work ethic.
The logical choice it to not go into STEM or at least not into IT services.
If you are an American, with all the benefits that citizenship entails - education, infrastructure, living conditions, security, stable government, rule of law, material and spiritual abundance - that make you the envy of the rest of the planet... why the hell can you not compete with third-world peasants, struggling against oppressive governments, scarcity of resources, illiterate parents, crime and pollution?
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
Seems like many jobs that are "IT" are not really. I can't find anything that says a single development job was lost.
--why?
The rote IT jobs that are best suited for labor arbitrage outsourcing are also the ones that should just be automated out of existence anyway or handled auto-magically by your cloud provider. The remaining jobs are the ones where close collaboration with the business makes them far more effective and those are going to be ones that you're going to regret offshoring.
The number of jobs that don't fall into either of those buckets is getting smaller by the day. It's hard to see how this kind of outsourcing has a long term future.
Then again, I'm not a plebian bitch, whining about the 1% on one hand while screaming my head off about redistribution of the 1%'s wealth on the other.
Protip, chucklefucks - you are the 1%. Why aren't you reveling in the fact that poor, downtrodden third-worlders are being raised up with your money?
Where are your unions? I'm not talking about the american maffia organisations calling themselves unions, but unions like you can find in Europe that negotiates fair conditions for workers and work against wage dumping, and sometimes allows lower wages during short periods when company is going bust. Oh, yeah, the american greed killed all that, and now you are paying the price.
I already see the posts coming in saying "No union for me, thanks, I can take care of myself." I honestly used to think that, back when companies were only outsourcing routine tasks and qualified people were still being treated well everywhere. All I can say is, just wait until you're 40 or end up at one of these places offshoring their entire IT department. I am incredibly lucky and (for now) have a great senior-level position doing systems engineering work. However, between age discrimination, the loss of entry-level work, and the relentless drive to offshore anything that costs real money, we run the risk of driving talented people away from IT.
Here's my idea -- form a profession similar to the one engineers have and a related trade guild, not a traditional labor union. Unions will never fly with the Libertarian, lone wolf, I'm-better-than-everyone-in-my-field crowd. It would have to be structured around the professional licensure model, like the AMA. The AMA and related organizations keep doctors employed and making serious money. How do they do this?
- Limiting labor supply by not allowing new medical school slots to be opened
- Paying for laws their members need passed, such as forcing recent health care reform to rely on the insurance model that keeps their reimbursement rates high
- Ensuring quality of profession members by licensing new medical school grads, and training them through residency and fellowship programs
- Requiring continuing education
I would say the biggest benefit to members of the profession would be standardizing basic education. I'm not talking about handing Microsoft or Oracle or Google the reins, I'm talking about making sure people understand the fundamentals of IT and development, not just how to feed code into the magic black box. This would mean evil tradesy things like apprenticeships and OJT for new members, but it would ensure that we wouldn't get the typical MCSE bootcamp or coder academy graduates who only know one way to solve a problem.
The first step beyond getting people to agree would be to basically do what the other professional organizations do -- take up a collection and pay for laws to be passed limiting the ability to offshore work. It's time we admit that the only way to get anything passed in Congress is to pay for it, and lobbyists are the equivalent of handing lawmakers paper bags of money.
To make this fair to employers, they would need to get something too. I would say the best approach would be to promise no union style work rules would be enforced, while quality would be maintained by self-regulation. I think it's horrible that someone can screw up a job so badly they get fired, then just clean up their resume and get another job without any repercussion -- and I've seen this happen many times. If companies could be assured that their job would get done without the need to bring it back onshore to clean it up at consulting rates, they'd be open to this possibility.
If the US stops being the world's consumer of last resort there will be no one to take it's place. The global race to the bottom wage wise can not work, someone has to leech away rent/income away from capital and give it to consumers. It might be better if the redistribution was more equitable globally, but it would be far worse if it wasn't there at all.
http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/11/09/1748237/us-spends-1bn-over-a-decade-trying-to-digitize-immigration-forms-just-1-is-online
No 'professional organization' is going to stop free market forces. Many have tried, all fail eventually. What you're up against is labor arbitrage, brought about by the globalization of the workforce. It first started in blue-collar professions; with advances in technology it has moved to knowledge work as well. Instead of thinking about India being some distant country think of it like the business next door, competing for the business that your employer provides. Why would a customer pay 3x for your employer's output than they would the Indian company? Do you think passing a law that prevents the business next to yours from competing would ever work?
us citizens are the most overworked people. They have long days, work a lot, low wages and very good 'value for the money'. But you americans buy all the US corporate propaganda and sell out your rights because maybe you'll be the one getting rich by a fluke chance somewhere in the future. Egoism, everyone for themselves results in this.
The funniest thing is that taxes are pretty high in the USA, but instead of producing services and regulations helping citizens, it ends up in social services for corporations and deregulation of corporate america and laws that denies rights to citizens.
If no one in the US has a good job to earn money to buy things with, how is anyone in America going to "consume" anything?
No jobs, no money in consumers hands, no demand.
What "rest of the economy" is left after all the good jobs have gone overseas?
--PM
Fine, as long as all C-level pay is drastically cut as well. Unless you truly think most CEOs are dozens to thousands of times more productive than a lowly employee to be getting their hugely inflated salaries.
Sorry, but it's not being greedy to actually want non-stagnant wages when CEOs are making record salaries.
Popular calls for xenophobic scapegoating. Corporate ownership of government officials. Rampant police corruption. Domestic surveillance.
Do I need say it?
(captcha: disobey)
They moved all of these IT jobs to Cognizant, which is a company made up almost entirely of H1bs. Cognizant is blatantly in violation of the H1b laws, and if they are taken down, as they should be, all of the companies that are depending on Cognizant for outsourced labor will be up a creek without a paddle.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
I don't know what the situation was like at that company in particular.
But having worked for and with a few large companies, it's not that hard to imagine why they were offshored - the article mentions the company "needed a more flexible staffing model that could better serve the cyclical nature of our business". I'm pretty sure from seeing other IT departments in action, that they in fact could not handle bursting kinds of workload, nor a cyclical business that ebbed and flowed to a large degree. IT departments are typically extremely rigid, and scared of even the smallest change.
IT as a role in a company must evolve or die off altogether. It must change to a form that truly helps a business instead of shackling it.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Damn; so glad I never got around to sending them that resume'.
... unions and employment protections are for pinko commie socialists?
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak outâ"
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak outâ"
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outâ"
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meâ"and there was no one left to speak for me.
Doctor and Lawyer salaries are through the roof because those are two of very few jobs that can not be outsourced to a third world country. If Blue Cross could ship you to Haiti for a 40c an hour doctor you don't think they would?
Welcome to the "Global Economy". You have heard all about it I'm sure, and how great it is. A real Utopia where everyone benefits. Assuming of course you are already extremely wealthy, because the rest of the people are expendable. As long as a company can stay afloat using dirt cheap labor, they will. Zuckerberg won the lottery, nothing more. That is your shot to getting out of the cesspool we are creating by complacently watching the government be run by the same people profiteering.
History is cyclical, we have seen this all before. The same result will come eventually, because people never learn to learn from history.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Shipping costs and more control drive automation in US manufacturing.
We need to look at cutting full time to 32 hours a week to start with a slow slide down to say 20 from that. Just to make automation fit in better while softening the blow of people going on welfare / disability. Also need some kind of basic income system to replace disability / welfare / etc.
Now there is some abuse of disability / welfare but some times the system penalizes work in a way that people are better off not working. Or in other cases the cost of getting to work does not really cover what they make there.
For quite a few years, the salary growth in the US has been capped at more or less 2.5 to 3.5%. The salary growth in Bangalore, India has been about 10%.
This difference is reducing the cost benefit of having offshore employees in India. And it's eroding it very quickly.
Senior (architect level) have a Bangalore:Silicon Valley of about 2:1.
Junior (new grad) have a Bangalore:Silicon Valley ratio of about 5:1.
In probably under 5 years, it will cost about the same for a company to have a Bangalore employee as it is in Silicon Valley. This ignore costs of US employees elsewhere.
I've personally seen an avoidance of junior staff in the US and in Bangalore under the guise of "independent workers". So I'd say that by 2020, we'll be looking less at the India tech hubs as low cost centers for smart staff. Bangalore will probably be as interesting as any other 'mostly interesting' technical locations.
The dollar index is at 99. So, its not surprising to see the pressure to outsource right now.
If you think US has long days, you should check the work culture in India... 60-70 hour weeks are required at a minimum to get promotions, and at 10% inflation, your effective wage reduces year on year without promos
"This was a very difficult decision, as we value all of our nearly 4,000 U.S. employees and their contributions."
Truthfully phrased:
"This was a very simple decision, as we nearly value all of our 4,000 U.S. employees and their contributions."
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I've been down, I've been beat
I've been tossed into the street
Beggin' nickels, beggin' dimes
Just to get my bottle of wine
Some say life she's a lady
Kinda soft, kinda shady
I can tell you life is rich
She's no lady, she's a bitch
They suck my body out
But friend there is no doubt
I'm gonna pay the devil his dues
'Cause I'm sick of being abused
Eat the rich, eat the rich
Don't you know life is a bitch
Eat the rich, eat the rich
Out of the palace and into the ditch
Steal my money, steal my car
Took my woman and my old guitar
Runnin' crazy, runnin' wild
Blind alley in my mind
Just can't fight the temptation
It's become my inspiration
Gonna get myself an axe
Break some heads, break some backs
They suck my body out
But friend there is no doubt
I'm gonna pay the devil his dues
'Cause I'm sick of being abused
Eat the rich, eat the rich
Don't you know life is a bitch
Eat the rich, eat the rich
Out of the palace and into the ditch
Don't stop me
Eat the rich, eat the rich
Don't you know life is a bitch
Eat the rich, eat the rich
Out of the palace and into the ditch
Eat the rich, eat the rich
Don't you know life is a bitch
Eat the rich, eat the rich
Out of the palace and into the ditch
Out of the palace and into the ditch
They suck my body out
This space unintentionally left blank.
> Secondly, they will chase you regardless of your qualifications because they are paid on commission. Third, they are not your friend.
They get paid their commission if and when they provide the best candidate, the one who gets hired. Twice, a call from a recruiter has resulted in a job offer that doubled my take-home pay - that's pretty friendly in my book. Of course my experience may be different from yours because as I said I make it a point to study my field weekly, not to bitch and moan about "the evil HR departments" who won't recommend me for an interview.
You can continue to complain because people as people continue to not hire you, or you can do something different; your choice.
The only way to stop this is to make IT a licensed profession just like with doctors, attorneys, and electricians.
No unionizing is going to stop offshoring. The only thing stopping offshoring would be putting tariffs on imports. This would just raise the cost of everything. Like that iPad at $800? Well, if you wanted to produce it locally it'd probably cost 1000s. And you'd have to get NAFTA and TPP thrown out first.
And how is that fair to people competing with lower costs? Why does John Smith from USA deserve a job more than Juan Perez or Wang Zhang? You don't care about that? Well, people who don't care aren't going to be cared for either.
The unions didn't know when to stop. They got greedy, making us uncompetitive.
You imagine that businesses have two choices, outsource or keep running with all that union labor. No, the second choice is to go out of business. Union labor isn't a viable choice.
We need to look at cutting full time to 32 hours a week
France has a 35 hour work week and an unemployment rate that is double that of the U.S, and also France has a lower labor force participation rate overall (by about 10%).
it's not being greedy to actually want non-stagnant wages
Non-farm business sector real compensation per hour is up 2.7% since 2014, after a long plateau due to the recession and formerly high unemployment rate, which is now down to 5%.
CEO pay is down over 30% (as a ratio with average worker pay) since 2000 though.
I don't get it. I was doing that kind of work in 2002, and it was shitty then already.
What's there left to E-learn? We've got YouTube, Kahn Academy and world-class universities dumping their entire curriculum online and into BitTorrent.
What's left to outsource to India, I'm wondering? Looks like this was a shit company anyway. It's probably gonna fold anytime soon anyway. I wouldn't be surprised.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
There is no good way to lay people off and replace them. It's always humiliating and degrading.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The above scenario will never happen, because there will always be someone making a lot of money
The point being that the jobs that got outsourced are jobs that are no longer creating enough added value to keep them inside a high-wage location, such as Ohio, USA
Even at Silicon Valley there are jobs that have been outsourced, but if we examine what kind of jobs that had been outsourced and which jobs still remain we will find that the jobs still remain (and are still being created) in America are jobs that are heavy on the side of creativity
Data entry jobs, even some of those so-called 'programming' jobs have become so routine it no longer makes any sense to employ people doing this low-value jobs in America
In other words, if you are Americans and still want to work in America, find yourself a niche, a niche which add a lot of value to what you do, a niche that no one outside of America can easily duplicate, and you will get to enjoy your job as long as what you do creates more money to your employer than what they pay you every month
You guys may not like what I am saying, but we need to face the reality somehow --- this world's competitiveness has heat up tremendously. USA and Europe are no longer the only places in the world where innovations happen
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
People here are struggling with dual-income households and working overtime. If France can get by with far less workers and less hours, we should be doing what they are doing.
... while corporate wages keep hitting All Time Low
How can the same "cure" that's depressing the economy do anything but continue the same trend?
The long term outlook bleak.
Outsourcing may cut costs in the short term. If done well it will also cut costs in the long term. But hardly any outsourcing job gets done well. If the outsourcing company had developed their system well, then they would have had a system that operates at minimal costs and outsourcing wouldn't even be an issue.
I see the following scenario: Cognizant et all will gain bargaining power over their customers and prices will rise. Wages will go up and prices will rise even more. A fine equilibrium will be reached so that outsourcing will not be reversed. Then cockiness will tip the balance and insourcing threats will introduce a period of mistrust and negotiation. Eventually perhaps the tables will turn.
In short: Companies that take their system development seriously will gain over ones that don't. The former will have strong systems that are kept running by a minimal work force -Like us CS dudes actually think is sensible. Make your choice.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
If you do that, then IT will die off anyway as most of the people in IT are in over their heads in a big way.
http://www.bbc.com/capital/sto...
The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
There is no way you can argue logically with CEOs who are concerned only with a good quarterly report to ensure the golden parachute for them. Only bullets solves something in this situation.
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
isn't an IT company.
I watched an IT (manufacturing and research) company slowly die.
Started with printed circuit boards from Hong Kong,
then they arrived stuffed and flow soldered,
then they arrived machine tested,
then the repairs were done over there,
then new systems were developed in China.
With each cost saving a few more people were made redundant,
until they just had a manager, accountant and secretary.
Go well
Hi Jeb! Except that France is doing better than that, the lower participation is lower retirement and students not having to work. For Americans it seems the worse you are treated the better it is.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/11/07/cheese-eating-job-creators-2/?module=BlogPost-Title&version=Blog%20Main&contentCollection=Opinion&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs®ion=Body
We have a Ford built in Mexico and a Toyota built in Kentucky.
"Egoism, everyone for themselves results in this."
What happened to: E pluribus unim. One for all, all for one?
America forsook its Christian heritage and got in bed with the corporate whores of Babylon.
You reap what you sow.
Now they have flooded the country with all kinds of foreigners who have no understanding
of our American Heritage. Not that it matters because most Americans have little
understanding either. We need another revolution, but it's not going to happen with such
a diverse and uninformed populace. This country's window of recovery is almost shut
and the hand is at the lock.
Duh! We don't have a trickle-down or trickle-up economy anymore; either one would be preferred to the "trickle-out" that we have now as it least moves money in the system. No, our nation is (and has been for quite some time now) been hemorrhaging wealth overseas. Meanwhile, our national debt is growing at warp speeds and when it finally crashes, the nation, "the union" as you know it dissolves. And as for China and everyone else, they can all go fuck themselves as there won't be an dollars to collect on!
Life is not for the lazy.
The job growth, sadly, is in retail and service sector jobs. I gave up on IT altogether after being effected by another layoff. I went ahead and got a CDL and now I drive for a living. Ironically, the joy of tinkering and experimenting with technology has returned.
http://politics.slashdot.org/story/15/08/18/029216/trump-targets-the-abuse-of-h-1b-visas
It's funny how after 20 years of us "IT guys" obliterating entire industries, destroying millions of jobs (and no, no new job is created when the a software replaces a department) now that we are the victim of the same thing (efficiency) we cry out loud like crazy. This is what happens, unfortunately. At some point everything will be a commodity, and the only real value will be the people with real business instincts to make the right decision for the company. Even software development that right now is considered highly creative and safe, yes, it may be, but can also be done from anywhere in the world you have a connection. The only value in the future of software development will be the people who will be able to come up with software that sells. Once they have the idea, there are thousands of technologies, frameworks, pre-made libraries that can help with that. Even now, I am working with a framework and libraries for functionalities that 2 years ago I would have needed to write myself. Now it's all done I just have to execute them. What I could bill 60 hours in the past, I now finish in 10. Yes, it's more efficient, it's also cheaper. Today all I have to do is to come up with an idea, I can probably execute it incredibly fast and cheap with no employees. Is that good, is that bad?
My experience in the tech world has been that most tech people lean libertarian....a kind of "don't bother me and I won't bother you" culture. This culture is reflected in the early days of software and networks where most code and communications protocols weren't designed with security built in.
Unfortunately, this world has ended. The world is a nasty place of people competing for resources and politics is part of that world.
The IT world needs a lobby group - maybe many groups to represent its interests in our government policies and our interactions with the world.
Rough consensus and running code are no longer enough.
Clearly fear mongering. Outsourcing IT is nothing new, it happens here and there and sometime it works and sometimes it fails. IT and manufacturing have nothing to do with each other and in all reality the US has tons of manufacturing jobs. We need better education if we want people to grow up with ambition and a skillset that isn't so easily replaced. We have to invest into out citizens to ensure we have a good workforce. OR, we accept that every country has a 10% demographics that is pretty darn smart and those 10% globally are the people that do a huge majority of the necessary work. The other 90% are just there mostly contributing to their own existence. Once you tap the 10% of your country, you need to get tap the 10% of the rest of the world. That being the case, we problem need to accept that fact that the 10% need to subsidize the 90% in both brainpower and a fair piece of the pie. Income inequality really isn't good for anyone, it just slows down the economy because hording money never increases production or profits. Either way you have to subsidize the dumb people and as we automate more, we have to subsidize more and more people. People won't just go away quietly or be swept under the rug. They will keep reproducing even with the lowest possible standard of living you can image. Adaption is the human superpower, so wage inequality is not going to fix itself. It will take an act of democratic power. The idea that there can always be enough jobs in the country for everyone to be employed is just false and it's getting less and less true every decade.
What so many don't seem to realize about this is what the long view holds. You see, the first world west is consumer exhausted. We have so many products, so many services, so many "me toos", we're over it. It is so hard to sell us anything more. So, the path of least resistance for the global companies is to go where its easier to sell. Of course, you have to create a market first. So, by employing the third world you are creating markets for your products. This can take decades. It has been happening for decades. We are already seeing the "fruits". The next big consumer product markets are India and China. They have swaths of uninformed people who are crazed to have a "better life" which of course according to the west is "more stuff". The craving for "more stuff" is thousands of years old. None of this is new. Our globalist corporate masters are very smart, very shrewd and very patient. They are creating wealth to sustain their legacies of power. Remember, the white man's obsession with finding routes to India was what begun the creation of America. It's time to give back.
So let's see, manufacturing is gone, we were all told to get an education and prepare for the high-tech jobs of the future. Except those are going away too now. The solution is to raise awareness and boycott those companies that boycott the american people. There should be an app for that. People should know how many american workers were humiliated and left without a job to feed their families out of pure greed before they take that Disney park vacation or go to ToysRUs for their Christmas shopping.
I didn't say I've never gotten hired through them. I have, but more often than not, I've been cut loose once they find the "best" candidate (who is frequently the "best" only on paper). They feel no obligation to you, only to the client. The point is it doesn't take too many rounds to see the game stinks even if you can play it well.
Heck, I even got passed up on a job once that I'd been doing well for three years under contract, because HR decided I wasn't qualified. My former co-workers told me the guy they actually hired was a disaster and couldn't do shit.
Recruiter interest is no way to judge your employability.
Feel good, don't it? You can keep telling yourself you'll work at all the companies that survive when this one crashes. Thing is they've been outsourcing and bringing in h1-bs for 20 years, and I don't recall that happening once. What I do recall is several companies put out of business by the outsourcers. I also see wage stagnant for everyone but a few at the top...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
If you're not sure who Cengage is, they're one of the the companies that charges $300 for a college Intro Physics textbook and then locks half the content and all the problems behind a website that requires a one-time-use registration card, so that used textbooks are worthless.
Wonder what Trump and Carly think? If Carly opposes it, she'd have to explain why she presumably supported it while in HP. The Don has said that he's for all immigration that's done legally! Just b'cos he's fond of the wall and wants to end illegal immigration doesn't imply that's he's opposed to legal immigration as well
Dr Ben has talked about the need to get the entire US population productive to match the likes of India & China. Would like to see his proposals
China will invade and take what they are owed.
E pluribus unum means "out of many, one".
*** SMACK*** is the sound of dave420 going down eating his words bitchslapped by apk http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
I take it therefore you're saving up money so you don't need to rely on handouts (from, for example, companies, whose profits you would extract at their expense, relying on their efforts to feed you)?
I take it you built your own car, your own house, your own power generation system, your own road.
I take it you grow your own food, do your own doctoring, look after your kids, and don't rely on someone giving you a job, or sell things to customers who you rely on for your livelihood?
And you refuse the courts and police to protect you and yours from others.
Because if not, you're relying on others for your wellbeing.
No, they get paid when they supply a candidate that gets accepted.
Whether they are any good at actually DOING the job rather than passing the interview is irrelevant.
...even IT workers in low-cost parts of the country are too expensive and their work is being sent to Cognizant, one of the largest H-1B visa users.
So are we not even pretending anymore that H-1B visas are for workers possessing skills not found locally? Because that's what they are supposed to be for. And that's what we have been told over and over when we made the observation that it's really about wage suppression. And yet, it seems to be about wage suppression. I guess we're one more industry that's finding out that unregulated Capitalism is not our friend.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Non-farm business sector real compensation per hour [stlouisfed.org] is up 2.7% since 2014, after a long plateau due to the recession and formerly high unemployment rate, which is now down to 5%.
Oh wow, 2.7%. That's an amazing pay raise especially when you factor in inflation. Oh and according to your Atlantic link's study, by comparison CEO pay is up anywhere from nearly 13% to over 37%. So sorry if I don't furiously masturbate of a pittance of a 2.7% wage increase.
CEO pay is down over 30% [theatlantic.com] (as a ratio with average worker pay) since 2000 though.
And yet it is still up to 273 times the average workers salary per that article. And even being off by 30%, their pay is still at near record highs historically. On the other hand, inflation adjusted wages for everyone else is still stagnant. Am I supposed to shed crocodile tears at the misfortune of CEOs that they are only making slightly less than obscene wages?
You do realize that if a recruiter could find you a job that "doubled my take-home pay" then you were working at "offshore rates" in the first place. Why don't you just admit that you are willing to sell yourself cheap and save us the crap about studying hard.
face facts. use logic. best way to prevent jobs going to non american citizens is to be truly productive and contributing value for money paid.
Is that really how you think these decisions are made? They somehow measure the value and productivity of the worker and decide whether they are getting their money's worth?
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Then explain CEO compensation....
Possibly the most racist in the world (i.e. the Caste system, etc.) so good luck trying to work for an Indian company.
H1B's contractors now cost more than $100K (although the actual person doing the work gets a fraction of that money). The reason is there's a shortage. Supply and demand. That's why companies are pushing to list the H1B caps.
No one looks at how we go into this situation. Around the 2000s the bean counters had a choice between adding more college hires and H1B/Off-shore resources. They cost a similar amount of money, but a H1B resource can be leveraged because they need an employer to sponsor their visa. Thus begins the cycle. No one is hiring the next generation of workers and the hole gets bigger and bigger.
Between 2005 and 2011 I didn't work in a single shop that had programming Interns or college hires (I consult and see a lot of large IT shops). As H1B and offshore rates ratcheted up companies were forced to look at college hiring again. So naturally the first thing congress wants to do is entirely remove H1B caps* (This by the way has bi-partisan support).
Back in my world I make a crap-ton of money with On-Shoring projects. Companies that tried it the 2000s are pulling development back into the US. We cost a lot more than off-shore workers, but the we get so much more done with a significantly higher degree of success.
so totally agree with you , IT is a never ending learning experience , very important to learn something new every day , but also very important to make sure the recruiters know about it
The "talent shortage" is not really a myth, designed to lobby for more H1B visas and offshoring?
They wouldn't lie to us, right? Right?
Of course, they lied.
I came from a place where we trained our replacements from Cognizant years back. Lets just say that the longest tenured employee was laid off given a year of severance for his 20 years of service to the company, was back as a consultant a few months later, and later rehired as an employee because the clowns from Cognizant couldn't figure out what end was up. I don't care how cheap these people were they were worthless. Mind you this was for a large Swiss bank, when I was going on vacation one of the H1B guys asked where I was going, to which I replied Skiing in the Alps, he responded..... no joke is that in Colorado to which I said no Switzerland where this company is headquartered. I was re-purposed and left 6 months later to greener pastures, but is is astounding how ignorant the contract engineers from India are, they really are not well educated. Mind you there are some good people but between the ridiculous business culture(seriously you haven't lived until you've done business in india) and the 1 useful person for every 4 worthless people means it is hard to get things done, couple that with high turnover and you soon realize why this doesn't work. It takes twice as long, costs half as much and is generally a piece of junk when it come back.
Where I am now we are getting rid of our Americans, my American employees know they are going away yet they still do a good job work 50+ hours a week and often support on weekends, the people who are replacing them just say yes to everything and then don't do anything, tell me how that is going to work? Companies need to wise up, yes have some offshore resources they can handle night support and also you can code and QA 24 hours a day, a global team but more often than not it is wholesale replacement and an assault on the US worker. They need the H1B's/L1 visas or else it doesn't work. Without a US presence it is too difficult to get the work done.
Absolutely. I wish I had known this, and knew how to do it, before.
It could be said:
It's not what you know, it's who knows what you know.
It was only fairly recently that I discovered a good way to make it easy for recruiters to discover what my skills are, working with their system.
That put me in a job pretty well matched to my skillset. Since I built skills around what I enjoy, I enjoy my job pretty well. I kind of people I work with now are the types of nerd who read Slashdot, so my boss and his boss might be reading this thread. Did I mention I enjoy my job, and my comments about recruiters refer to how I got into my current position?
"APK doesn't think that DNS servers are worth running and seems to believe that somehow Microsoft Active Directory can run without DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015 @12:58PM (#50811615)
Where'd I say AD will run minus DNS Coren22? I've said AD = internal network DNS dependent as far back as 2007 http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...
(Search this in BOLD there "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers!" referring to OpenDNS suggestions for those using AD stupid in the POSTS BEFORE IT in my security guides for users (geared to stand alone single machines no less), & right there on that page proves it stupid - so even if you posted as myself someplace here on /. "impersonating me", I have your ass NOW, shithead!)
I've also stated MANY TIMES I use remote DNS in OpenDNS @ home (but not @ work on AD networks + exchange/outlook: Free OpenDNS model doesn't work with AD dependent Exchange + Outlook specifically you lying little imbecile).
I also don't hardcode in "every site there is under the sun" is why, so I have to use DNS, but OpenDNS & rarely.
I also RARELY MISS A LOOKUP since I put where I spend a good 95++% of my time online in my favorite sites into hosts @ the TOP of hosts for utmost LOCAL FASTER RESOLUTION SPEEDS and more reliability vs. Open DNS (not OpenDNS) resolvers being abused, Kaminsky redirect poisoned DNS servers (of which 99.999% of ISP DNS are not proofed against to this very day even though a patch exists which OpenDNS uses), rogue DNS servers, and yes ROUTERS with bushwhacked by malware DNS settings (happening a LOT lately).
Hardcodes in hosts are faster than remote DNS, waste less resources than local dns in power, cpu cycles, RAM, & other I/O by FAR considering ALL THE PARTS of such a setup in programs, data, I/O, & power (especially if setup as a separate machine).
APK
P.S.=> You're a disgusting liar... apk
"I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware. Good luck getting that removed." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)
It's safe proven by 57 antivirus programs recently in BOTH its 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
+
Its 32-bit model too https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
&
More "SALT IN YOUR WOUNDS" -> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...
---
MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...
APK
P.S.=> /.'ers say my work is good too:
"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)
"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)
"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)
"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)
... apk
Coren22 says "hosts=bad" (they add security, speed, & reliability) & bitches on admin priv to UPDATE vs. threats
"So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)
& admits using admin priv himself
+
How else can I programmatically update hosts minus it in Windows?
---
"Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)
You FINALLY later admit there's no other way!
FACT:
Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware (best one) DEMANDS you use admin privelege (you saying it's "bad" too?) it can't do its job fully otherwise, like many security tools do!
APK
P.S.=> Lastly - Coren22, there is a CURE for your "outism" due to your retarded by assburgers clearly defective brain (lol) - quit making childish sigs about me & sockpuppet accounts as well as telling lies about me - I'll stop OUTING you... apk
"APK doesn't think that DNS servers are worth running and seems to believe that somehow Microsoft Active Directory can run without DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015 @12:58PM (#50811615)
Where'd I say AD will run minus DNS Coren22? I've said AD = internal network DNS dependent as far back as 2007 http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...
(Search this in BOLD there "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers!" referring to OpenDNS suggestions for those using AD stupid in the POSTS BEFORE IT in my security guides for users (geared to stand alone single machines no less), & right there on that page proves it stupid - so even if you posted as myself someplace here on /. "impersonating me", I have your ass NOW, shithead!)
I've also stated MANY TIMES I use remote DNS in OpenDNS @ home (but not @ work on AD networks + exchange/outlook: Free OpenDNS model doesn't work with AD dependent Exchange + Outlook specifically you lying little imbecile).
I also don't hardcode in "every site there is under the sun" is why, so I have to use DNS, but OpenDNS & rarely.
I also RARELY MISS A LOOKUP since I put where I spend a good 95++% of my time online in my favorite sites into hosts @ the TOP of hosts for utmost LOCAL FASTER RESOLUTION SPEEDS and more reliability vs. Open DNS (not OpenDNS) resolvers being abused, Kaminsky redirect poisoned DNS servers (of which 99.999% of ISP DNS are not proofed against to this very day even though a patch exists which OpenDNS uses), rogue DNS servers, and yes ROUTERS with bushwhacked by malware DNS settings (happening a LOT lately).
Hardcodes in hosts are faster than remote DNS, waste less resources than local dns in power, cpu cycles, RAM, & other I/O by FAR considering ALL THE PARTS of such a setup in programs, data, I/O, & power (especially if setup as a separate machine).
APK
P.S.=> You're a disgusting liar... apk
You shouldn't be worried about H1-Bs, or even contractors for that matter. I've found throughout my career that when my company brings in contractors, the following inevitably occurs
1) The contractors are not told about critical resources, systems, or standards
2) They are given weak instructions, no supervision, and are just 'let loose'
3) They come up with some cool 'toy' that will solve all my problems (without even talking to me first)
4) Their contract ends, and they leave, without providing any documentation on what they did, and even leaving before their tasks are complete or in prod
5) I get to pick up the pieces, and spend the next X weeks cleaning up the mess, checking stuff into SVN/Git that was missing/lost/broken, and generally once again proving beyond a shadow of a doubt to my managers that I actually KNOW my shit, and should never be let go
There has been very few times where this doesn't happen, and those times I look back on and think "There goes another that we should have just hired"
If you've had better experiences, good for you. But I simply pity any company that thinks they can whole-sale replace their IT dept. with contractors/H1-Bs and not immediately have their IT dept. sink into the bowels of mediocrity.
"I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware. Good luck getting that removed." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)
It's safe proven by 57 antivirus programs recently in BOTH its 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
+
Its 32-bit model too https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
&
More "SALT IN YOUR WOUNDS" -> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...
---
MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...
APK
P.S.=> /.'ers say my work is good too:
"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)
"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)
"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)
"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)
... apk
Coren22 says "hosts=bad" (they add security, speed, & reliability) & bitches on admin priv to UPDATE vs. threats
"So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)
& admits using admin priv himself
+
How else can I programmatically update hosts minus it in Windows?
---
"Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)
You FINALLY later admit there's no other way!
FACT:
Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware (best one) DEMANDS you use admin privelege (you saying it's "bad" too?) it can't do its job fully otherwise, like many security tools do!
APK
P.S.=> Lastly - Coren22, there is a CURE for your "outism" due to your retarded by assburgers clearly defective brain (lol) - quit making childish sigs about me & sockpuppet accounts as well as telling lies about me - I'll stop OUTING you "signature boy" troll... apk
I am a first hand witness and can confirm this is what Gov. Kasich (Presidential Candidate) did to Ohioan's.
I live in Ohio, and a vast majority of my neighborors are from India. And those that get into top positions, quickly make sure everybody they hire in subordinate positions are also Indian. Nepotism is at extreme levels and I experienced this myself also.
And so we are clear, there are plenty of Americans capable of those jobs, I worked with a lot of them that got laid off because of Indians coming in and taking them for less money.
I would never vote for Kasich, nor do I recommend you do
Legal immigrants from India are taking the high paying jobs, and illegals from mexico are taking the low paying jobs. What's left for the rest of us?
Yes, but the economy is still harmed.
The US economy. But the Indian economy is boosted. Do you think that we listen to India whine every time we build a new robotic assembly line that puts one of their manual assembly lines out of business? Of course not. This whole 'us and them' argument is kinda bullshit, as we all live on the same planet, and in the end anything that improves productivity globally is probably a good thing.
Now, you may have some other valid problems that need to be solved, such as finding enough work for every person on Earth, or preventing total wealth aggregation by the top 1%, but don't entangle that with globalization.
A really sensible complaint would be, 'We have companies in the US that are taking advantage of our infrastructure, but aren't employing the local taxpayers, or are hiding funds overseas to avoid paying their taxes.'
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Shareholders not demanding value for money ?
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
A small group of Ultra Wealthy who own the means of production, a miniscule middle class that serves them and the rest in abject poverty. As long as the 1% are taken care of the rest of us are left to fend for ourselves...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Like scrum master, project manager, lead developer. When they can't outsource it they try for an h1-b and if that fails they try to make do without. Only when all other options have been exhausted do they consider an American. Usually for 80% of what the same job paid in 2000 but with more responsibility.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Something that I'm not seeing (or apologize if I've missed) is that, given the sad start of our public education system and highschool/college drop out rates, there's some question whether the U.S. labor pool can provide the level of knowledge and experience that other countries' workers can. No plan can work without investing more in our education system to ensure there IS a sufficient labor force to do the job here.
So, would you rather have American workers taking calls for Indian consumers! No thank you - that would be humiliating.
How can this post earn +5 Insightful? Medical Doctors didn't form unions and now they are paying for it dearly.
Doctors get paid whatever insurance companies (and the government) feel like paying them. They are also told how long a person can be in the hospital for a given condition, because beyond that they get $0. Doctors need to see patients by volume to break even. Doctors are rewarded by returning a significant chunk of money in the form of "Malpractice Insurance".
Hospitals create groups to negotiate with the insurance companies, while virtually all services (except for surgery) run at a net loss. Meanwhile, the hospital administrators and insurance companies make bank. Insurance is a scam!
See subject & links where I tried to make peace - says it all w/ proof of it from his trolling "signature boy" mouth http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & here too http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
* :)
(I've discovered that trying to make peace with a mental retard due to assbergers & OUTISM is a difficult thing & largely apparently unachievable...)
APK
P.S.=> You brought it on yourself Coren22, nobody else - you sow the wind? Here comes the whirlwind, & all your sockpuppets, signatures, & fellow trolls can't stop it (lol, you're 'outta bullets' in downmods) - so "the beatings will continue" until you stop your immature childish signature bs... apk
See subject: Says it all & this link, dismantling him point-by-"so-called 'point'" of his publicly http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
* :)
(Coren22, I tried to give you a chance, 3x no less - you're a fool: You mistake mercy for weakness, like cretin brutes in the streets do... you paid the price!)
APK
P.S.=> I notice you stopped responding there - "Gosh, golly gee - why's that?" (not) - but I expect you'll TRY some more b.s. as that's all "your kind" (trolls) understand - crap like downmodding my posts or ac troll me!
(Which you & your sockpuppets OR fellow trolls have here already NOW TELLING OTHERS TO TROLL ME BY UNIDENTIFIABLE AC POSTS http://slashdot.org/comments.p... as I've torn you ALL up 1 by 1 every time as I have yourself above... you did this, to yourself "signature boy")... apk
See subject & links where I tried to make peace - says it all w/ proof of it from his trolling "signature boy" mouth http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & here too http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
* :)
(I've discovered that trying to make peace with a mental retard due to assbergers & OUTISM is a difficult thing & largely apparently unachievable...)
APK
P.S.=> You brought it on yourself Coren22, nobody else - you sow the wind? Here comes the whirlwind, & all your sockpuppets, signatures, & fellow trolls can't stop it (lol, you're 'outta bullets' in downmods) - so "the beatings will continue" until you stop your immature childish signature bs... apk
See subject: Says it all & this link, dismantling him point-by-"so-called 'point'" of his publicly http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
* :)
(Coren22, I tried to give you a chance, 3x no less - you're a fool: You mistake mercy for weakness, like cretin brutes in the streets do... you paid the price!)
APK
P.S.=> I notice you stopped responding there - "Gosh, golly gee - why's that?" (not) - but I expect you'll TRY some more b.s. as that's all "your kind" (trolls) understand - crap like downmodding my posts or ac troll me!
(Which you & your sockpuppets OR fellow trolls have here already NOW TELLING OTHERS TO TROLL ME BY UNIDENTIFIABLE AC POSTS http://slashdot.org/comments.p... as I've torn you ALL up 1 by 1 every time as I have yourself above... you did this, to yourself "signature boy")... apk
I'm going to tell you something that may be very helpful to you, and which you won't want to hear. Recruiting and on-boarding, then training, a new employee is expensive. Their total cost to hire an IT professional who then needs to be replaced is at least three months of your salary, normally more. Keeping that in mind ...
> I didn't say I've never gotten hired through them. I have, but more often than not, I've been cut loose
If they cut you loose after spending ~ $24,000 recruiting you, on-boarding you, and trying to get you up to speed, but still found it made more sense to try again with another candidate rather than to keep you, that means something. It means your work not as actually as good as your resume and what you told them in the interview. Maybe you used to be really good, you're an expert at Perl 5.2, PHP 4, and MySQL 4 perhaps, but haven't kept up. Maybe you know what you're doing, so you give good interview answers but you're sloppy, so your work isn't as good as knowledge. For some reason, you're not worth the salary they offered you. Maybe you're kinda like me - a genius asshole.
If it happened once, that might be just a bad fit. Twice and maybe you're unlucky. If you keep getting "cut loose" repeatedly, there's a reason. And it's not everybody getting let go, it's you who are the common denominator. It might do you a lot of good to talk to your boss and co-workers and find exactly out what the problem is.
32 hours would be a great improvement. Even 4 days at 9 hours would work better.
France isn't the US, but the French are happier and have better work-life balance I'm sure. Taking a month off in August each year isn't too bad either. With Congress voting to up the retirement age, I should be getting a month off each year now to make up for the extra years I will have to work when I'm 65-70.
And quite honestly, my main goal is to be able to drop out of the workforce because I have enough money and my expenses are so low. That is 'winning' to me. I will be able to work on what I want to work on, on my own schedule.
I have personally seen employers routinely get away with violating EVERY SINGLE ITEM ON THAT LIST.
So much for your unions.
I see, I misunderstood what you were saying. I heard "I've been hired through a recruiter and then the company cut me loose - repeatedly".
> They really don't care about candidates at all, apart from how much they can make off you.
Yeah, I'm sure most are focused on getting their job done, not on you personally. There job is to find someone whom the company will hire. I suppose if someone expected anything different they'd often be disappointed. On the other hand, since they get paid by getting someone hired, they're an ally (not friend) when I'm trying to get hired.
You do understand that will just massively increase labour costs, giving further incentives to outsourcing...
32 hours/wk is a gift. Keep it.
The issue people can't see is productivity will keep increasing, eventually leading to a massive unemployed force.
Massive social programs are indeed inevitable, but that will only work when all countries have them, otherwise a lot of labour will jump to the countries where they don't have to pay for that.
Its the big problem with the democrat / republican polarization. Both sides have some merits, but until they can see the whole picture by accepting both sides valid points, the disfunctionality will just continue, hurting the US economy.
We've seen a perfect example of the free market working in air fares. We all want the cheapest ticket, and will suffer any amount of indignity on the ground and in flight to save a few dollars. If one assumes that off-shore software is poorly designed but cheaper, and if the companies selling that software pass the savings along to the consumer (a big if there), there's reason to believe that customers will put up with shoddy software to save a few bucks, no?
When I was being replace by three offshore workers, I trained them as well as I could.
Then I tried to get a job offshore. Apparently it doesn't work that way. Workers can be exported, but they cannot be imported.
So much for a global economy.
IT people waited too long, that ship has sailed. They kind of deserve it for not bothering to organize 20 years ago.
Tough Luck, We've been having this problem in Europe for the last 3 or 4 years!
Expel Brahmin From Your Country;
http://wh.gov/iyhMK
Casteism
Oh wow, 2.7%. That's an amazing pay raise especially when you factor in inflation.
2.7% is real compensation per hour, i.e. inflation-adjusted.
Strange to see this. Some years when I was in Cognizant, I was part of the team which had to transition from US to India, And it was so painful because The US guys had worked 20-25 years at this job and we were people with less than 8 years exp taking over. And it made it more difficult to get the transition as we were putting them out of work and practically on streets.It was the sickest thing to do as some had health issues and were losing health insurance and you hated yourself.I respected everyone of those US guys for experience and knowledge they had.Also back in India you practically are slave driven with insane hours.
First thing I did was to quit the company back in town and take a job where I didnt cause someone else to lose theirs as far as possible.