Slashdot Mirror
The War On Campus Sexual Assault Goes Digital
HughPickens.com writes: According to a recent study of 27 schools, about one-quarter of female undergraduates said they had experienced nonconsensual sex or touching since entering college, but most of the students said they did not report it to school officials or support services. Now Natasha Singer reports at the NYT that in an effort to give students additional options — and to provide schools with more concrete data — a nonprofit software start-up in San Francisco called Sexual Health Innovations has developed an online reporting system for campus sexual violence. One of the most interesting features of Callisto is a matching system — in which a student can ask the site to store information about an assault in escrow and forward it to the school only if someone else reports another attack identifying the same assailant. The point is not just to discover possible repeat offenders. In college communities, where many survivors of sexual assault know their assailants, the idea of the information escrow is to reduce students' fears that the first person to make an accusation could face undue repercussions.
"It's this last option that makes Callisto unique," writes Olga Khazan. "Most rapes are committed by repeat offenders, yet most victims know their attackers. Some victims are reluctant to report assaults because they aren't sure whether a crime occurred, or they write it off as a one-time incident. Knowing about other victims might be the final straw that puts an end to their hesitation—or their benefit of the doubt. Callisto's creators claim that if they could stop perpetrators after their second victim, 60 percent of campus rapes could be prevented." This kind of system is based partly on a Michigan Law Review article about "information escrows," or systems that allow for the transmitting of sensitive information in ways that reduce "first-mover disadvantage" also known to economists as the "hungry penguin problem". As game theorist Michael Chwe points out, the fact that each person creates her report independently makes it less likely they'll later be accused of submitting copycat reports, if there are similarities between the incidents.
"It's this last option that makes Callisto unique," writes Olga Khazan. "Most rapes are committed by repeat offenders, yet most victims know their attackers. Some victims are reluctant to report assaults because they aren't sure whether a crime occurred, or they write it off as a one-time incident. Knowing about other victims might be the final straw that puts an end to their hesitation—or their benefit of the doubt. Callisto's creators claim that if they could stop perpetrators after their second victim, 60 percent of campus rapes could be prevented." This kind of system is based partly on a Michigan Law Review article about "information escrows," or systems that allow for the transmitting of sensitive information in ways that reduce "first-mover disadvantage" also known to economists as the "hungry penguin problem". As game theorist Michael Chwe points out, the fact that each person creates her report independently makes it less likely they'll later be accused of submitting copycat reports, if there are similarities between the incidents.
Or will they just assume the guy is guilty?
"Hey, I don't like that guy. Let's all report him through the rape app. We're girls so we'll be believed over him, particularly by the media. The media will even believe us after it's been shown that we were lying because it fits with their narrative."
According to a recent study of 27 schools, about one-quarter of female undergraduates said they had experienced nonconsensual sex or touching since entering college
So basically they asked about touching and sex just so they can put the phrase "nonconsensual sex" and "one-quarter" together?
Those 2 are nowhere near the same level of severity to be reported in that fashion.
I've been touched plenty times nonconsensually, I figured "that's a bit too familiar" (yes I'm a man, yes by women), however I wouldn't place those occurrences nowhere near anything having to do with rape.
I think this is a pretty cool idea (improving the likelihood of reporting rapists and ill-informed post-adolescents). But will it be able to avoid collusion on the part of those reporting? Multiple persons with an ax to grind (or just wanting to "tease" someone) could seemingly file multiple reports triggering the escrow's release. That, in itself, is not the problem. It's the consequences of free (or possibly anonymous) condemnation. I still think anything that improves reporting of (genuine) assault is a good thing. I just worry about how technology has an equal hand in facilitating asshattery.
There are two goods I would like to see from an effort like this: punish the truly criminal and better educate those poisoned with the antique ideals of past generations. I didn't have the best education regarding this (but it was better than most maybe) as a child and must frequently question my thinking regarding other humans. Yes, I'm talking about men. I prefer to be inclusive, but men are the fucking problem here.
I just don't want to ruin someone's life because of poor guidance (by parents, peers, media, educators, etc.). I expect that a small percentage of false-positives is to be expected. But I don't want to provide a means to facilitate it.
Even the most vile transgressor deserves to face their accusers.
"The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once." -me
Notice how "evidence" and "courts" aren't words used anywhere in this.
Write a script to automatically file rape claims against every male in the school. It gets held by the escrow service, so the university can't even see the fact that everyone has a rape claim against them, at least, not until they've asked for the data during an investigation.
Someone eventually escalates some situation or another and the university pulls the data on the person and - Woah, 33 pre-existing rape claims! You're expelled buddy! And then this gets shared with every other university, and you make newspaper headlines, so all google searches of your name turn up rape accusations and, well, good luck ever getting a job or college education for the rest of your life.
And all this, without a single court getting involved.
"Social Justice"? More like modern Salem witch trials.
its like 4chan, for rape.
But seriously, as soon as I saw the ada initiative on there, i knew it was bullshit. Selena Deklemann herself tried to entrap me once as an enemy of feminsts, by trying to cajoule me into going to meet her behind the florist dumpster alone, and after i repeatedly refused accused me of harassing her at Open Source Bridge.
Then there is the matter that the founder of the ada initaitive, which is also listed in there, currently has a federal case open for a false rape claim against her husband, among others that she has made over the years to others, except for the fact that she killed herself over the issue. Schwern vs Plunkett
nonconsensual sex or touching
Whoa... i know you have to pick a range for your checkbox but this is a rather large one, but of course that is the trick, everyone will focus on non-consensual sex when a rather large proportion of that is will be non-consensual touching, magnifying there numbers... why don't you do a study on males with "non-consensual violence and touching" same thing.
*brushes past someone in hallway* interpreted as -> He pushed me he pushed me... waaaaa
It's a shame because studies like these will do very little for the real cases of non-consensual sex by devaluing the more honest studies.
In the article, it mentions female undergraduates, and only females. Guess what, men get raped too. Why is there no insurance for that case? Because every man is an insaitable sexual animal who can't do anything but assault the nearest woman? That's not very gender equal, is it, to automatically assume that the male is automatically the rapist? Isn't this the very definition of sexism, to treat someone differently solely by gender?
That's ignoring the absurdity of not checking this in court or anything either. In some states, rape is a capital crime, punishable by death in the US. If another person and I have a vendetta against someone, can't we just file two reports? Boom, no proof required, no pesky legal checking. Minimum, they'd be ruined for the rest of their whole lives: potentially, they could wind up on death roll (in some places). That'd be indirect murder, clearly a very funny college prank, yes?
It's astonishing to me how no one thought this through or even put aside their cultural biases to do any research into this whatsoever.
"Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
I once tracked down the "one in four" number. It turns out they include all drunken sex, all cases of not asking permission at each step and pretty much every other bullshit thing they could throw in to inflate the number. And why am I reading this on Slashdot anyway?
Official rates doesn't tell all the truth: in societies where women are repressed, rape cases are likely to go unreported. BTW, it's very unlikely that there are more cases of rape in the US, where there is not a tradition of classifying some women are outcasts, nor anyone there says that outcast women deserve rape.
Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
Seriously - why aren't college rape and sexual assault claims immediately reported to the police? Not campus police, but the local city or state police?
What good is there in keeping a rape or sexual assault claim "in house" to be handled by the college? This is not the job of the college. This is the job of law enforcement and the judicial system. If there's a conviction, then the college can expel the guilty party without any bad publicity.
Do they only count nonconsensual sexual touching, or all nonconsensual touching?
Personally, I've been a "victim" of nonconsensual, NON-sexual touching lots of time. Every time there is some kind of family gathering, and plenty of other cases, like job interviews.
Fricking extroverts and their hand-shaking fetish.
Exactly.
It's not PC to say, but most of these women out themselves in bad situations. Not usually by how they dress, but by the things they do, usually heavy partying, drinking and drugs. If these women stayed away from these situations, they probably wouldn't experience any of this. Of course, it doesn't excuse the perpetrators, but it's just the reality of the situation.
I'd bet my anal virginity that 90+% of these situations involved alcohol being consumed.
Women, you have two choices. Party and risk being in an uncomfortable situation from time to time, or avoid the parties and have an extremely low risk. Again, doesn't make it right, and campuses should try to reduce this unwanted contact, but but we can't deny it's just the way things are. The choice is yours.
This message brought to you by Carl's Jr. Because they pay me every time I say it.
The truth is there are more males being raped in America than females (most in the prison system). Of course, this never gets reported by the media, and if it's ever mentioned, it's only for a cheap laugh.
So feminists, if you're really for equality, when are you gonna stand up for these men?
I can't believe I just read that in the 21st century. It's staggering that you think that. It's not "PC" to say what you did because it's fucking ridiculous. Women know the risks, but that doesn't in any way excuse anyone who thinks it's fine to just go raping people. Women shouldn't have to tame their behaviour because some guys can't handle it. That's the thinking in fundamentalist religious communities where women have strict dress codes.
You are living in the past.
"or touching" does wonders.
An app the collects anonymous accusations with timestamps and holds them in escrow. Na that can never be abused.
Oh yea get some clickfraud people on it and suddenly every male on any campus has a report or 12 all came from unique IP's did their capcha's etc.
This needs to be litigated to death and the idiots that made it be held personally responsible. A massive financial crater to show just how stupid this is, to dissuade others from being this foolish.
No sir I dont like it.
Please explain. Sexual assault among students is almost unheard of in my country..
Sexual assault is evenly distributed around the globe. About 33% of women were sexually assaulted at least one time. These figures are readily available at the WHO website.
In some countries it is 29% in some 32%, but it is an issue of reporting. This figure seems to be geographically independent, and corresponds to Homo Sapiens in general.
I think the women should also take some part of responsibility. They should be stronger. For example, it is close to impossibe to assault these women: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... . It just would be suicidal.
Sexual (and physical) assaults are crimes - but they are not crimes limited to one gender nor are limited to one gender upon another. Ideas like this perpetuate stereotypes while significantly reducing real rights and freedoms.
Statistics have shown that lesbian people (as an example) experience domestic violence at a very similar rate to that of heterosexual women (Waldner-Haygrud, 1997; AVP, 1992). It has been estimated that between 17-45% of lesbians have been the victim of at least one act of violence perpetrated by a female partner (Burke et al, 1999; Lie et al, 1991), and that 30% of lesbians have reported sexual assault / rape by another woman (Renzetti, 1992).
In short, if such a system is to be introduced, it needs to be gender neutral, have significant oversight and be tightly tied to the legal system.
*** Don't be dull.***
the idea of the information escrow is to reduce students' fears that the first person to make an accusation could face undue repercussions.
Is that a realistic fear? And is it currently common for rape to go unreported because of this fear?
Maybe its not PC to say what he said, but look at it this way. I have a 6 year old daughter. I am going to teach her (when she's older of course), "if, in college, you go to a party without any friends and get totally smashed and dress very revealing, your likelihood of something bad happening to you is going to rise dramatically. Use your common sense."
Is it non-PC to tell my daughter that? Should I instead say, "honey, do whatever you want, get drunk, show your cleavage, go to parties where you don't know anyone. Cause you know, nothing that happens is ever your fault."
The sad irony is that Indian men can be accused and convicted of rape if they refuse to marry a woman after they have sex with her. That's the law in India.
Campus tribunals operate without even a pretense of being governed by anything resembling due process for the accused. They typically have no right to an attorney, right to question the accuser, heck sometimes they literally aren't even told what the formal charge is. Then when they lose, they face expulsion. Sure they can "just attend another university," but they have an expulsion on their record that they have to explain. If they are on student loans and no one else picks them up, that is a very costly matter as well.
Women shouldn't have to tame their behaviour because some guys can't handle it
Police officers shouldn't have to wear heavy uncomfortable bullet proof vests because some gun wielding criminals can't handle being good law abiding citizens. That's about as sensical as your statement. It's unrealistic to expect there to be no criminals, just as it is unrealistic to expect there to be no rapists. "They can't handle it" cause that's the stereotypical macho masculine view. That a man should just man up and if he doesn't he's a pussy that can't handle it. Fuck things like mental health or how he grew up or whatever the fuck else right? Being piss drunk makes you an easier target as you can't think/control your bodily normally. By no means does not drinking remove all risk, it just reduces it. It's hysterical that rather than acknowledging that fact, you'd rather refute it by saying we should be living in some utopia where no one does any wrong. Fuck off.
Does the system also immediately notify the male (presumably) so that he can immediately enter evidence of his defense while memory is fresh, he can recall which witnesses were around, and so forth? I'm guessing probably not.
What are you doing America? Your universities and colleges are turning into a Marxists hug boxes. Apps like these will be used by PC feminist girls to hunt down the people they disagree with men and women alike. Though police is soon a reality.
Could we please agree on ceasing the inflationary use of the term "War".
It's getting tiring.
Thank you.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Now if we only found an effective, level-headed way to deal with the agressors: granted, the agression has to stop (better after two reports than never, but one feels even that is two reports too late). Granted, the agressors carry a responsability for their deeds. But starting an irrational witch hunt seems contraproductive (remember "...the children") -- the agressors need help too.
It would certainly be nice(both for victimizations prevented and for people who don't need to be punished) if we found a way to reliably discourage people ahead of time; and prevent recidivism after the fact; but it's a bit much to say that 'aggressors need help too'.
Last I checked, we have an ample supply of humans available, with no shortages expected. Prevention and rehabilitation may be morally desirable; but when you have access to ample spare parts; you can simply discard defective units rather than try to rework them.
But that wouldn't rhyme with "war on men".
These figures are readily available at the WHO website.
Could you provide a link please?
Shitarama! Did I sleep right through Thursday again?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
From TFS:
https://www.aau.edu/uploadedFi...
Overall, 11.7 percent of students across the 27 universities reported experiencing nonconsensual penetration or sexual touching by force or incapacitation since enrolling at the IHE.
Which is about HALF of the fabled 25%.
The magic 25% (i.e. the long parroted and continuously debunked legend of 1 in 4 women being raped) was reached through following fiddling of numbers.
Again, from TFS:
To assess the overall risk of nonconsensual sexual contact, prevalence measures were estimated that combine the two behaviors that constitute sexual contact (penetration and sexual touching) and the four tactics discussed above (physical or threat of physical force; incapacitation; coercion; AAC [Absence of Affirmative Consent]).
Absence of Affirmative Consent being a catch-all category for any kind of "explicit" and "active, ongoing voluntary agreement" of "both partners".
The question that makes 11.7% into "1 in 4 women" being:
Since you have been a student at [University], has someone had contact with you involving penetration or oral sex without your active, ongoing voluntary agreement? Examples include someone:
- initiating sexual activity despite your refusal
- ignoring your cues to stop or slow down
- went ahead without checking in or while you were still deciding
- otherwise failed to obtain your consent
When that question, which no longer talks about rape but about failure to read minds and thus tell if someone is still deciding and a failure to "otherwise obtain consent" (possibly in written form) we get the magical 1 in 4 numbers.
Which would dictate that every family that has at least one female child, also has at least one rape victim (two grandmas + mom + daughter = 1 of them must be have been raped).
But even then more fiddling with numbers is needed to reach the magic 1 in 4 value. Such as limiting the survey response to seniors only.
According to the AAU survey, 16.5 percent of seniors experienced sexual contact involving penetration or sexual touching as a result of physical force or incapacitation. Senior females (26.1%) and those identifying as TGQN (29.5%) are, by far, the most likely to experience this type of victimization.
And if it needs to be more obvious that they get those numbers by padding the set and expanding the time frame...
Students who are relatively new to school may experience higher risk because they are not as familiar with situations that may lead to an incident of sexual assault or misconduct.
Examination of the rates for the current academic year show this pattern holds for undergraduate females.
Among freshmen, 16.9 percent of females reported sexual contact by physical force or incapacitation.
This percentage steadily declines by year in school to a low of 11.1 percent for seniors.
And then there are other issues...
Like defining "penetration" as "when someone's mouth or tongue makes contact with someone else's genitals", without defining whose mouth and whose genitals are in question.
The way question is defined, both giving and receiving oral sex constitutes penetration.
On whom? Well... On both giver and receiver of oral sex, according to such a loose definition.
Or "physical force" being defined as "holding you down with his or her body weight, pinning your arms, hitting or kicking you, or using or threatening to use a weapon against you".
Which equates physical violence and a gun to your head with "being on the bottom".
Or how numbers reported don't really match up.
Like penetration numbers for fem
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
I have a great idea.
We can set up a system. Let's call it a "Criminal Justice System". Catchy, ain't it?
Then, we train and hire people specifically to deal with "aggressors". We can split them up into "Cops","Prosecutors", and "Judges".
I guess we'll need to pass some kind of rule or something that says you can't have sex with someone unless they want the same. And no Groping and stuff.
So, once in place, any women is is raped or assaulted in any way, can file charges. The perp is taken away by the cops, the Prosecutor argues he should be take away for a long time, and the Judge agrees or disagrees. Maybe you can have something like a bunch of random people make that decision too.
There ya go, an effective, level-headed way to deal with the aggressors!
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Here, for example: http://www.who.int/reproductiv...
Very well said!
Just wondering why they don't stick to their charter, i.e. health. Credibility is a precious thing to waste, and if people start doubting WHO, they might engage in risky behavior (not using protection, etc.)
Really? From what I've heard women here may not be formally classified as outcasts, but often suffer from victim-blaming, and may see substantial backlash and condemnation if their attacker is popular or well-connected (athletes, actors, the wealthy, etc.) , which is often the case - as such people seem disproportionately likely to believe they are entitled to whatever they want.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
No, giving the advice to avoid wolf-filled woods is always a good idea. But the fact that you wouldn't feel compelled to give your son the same advice (or at least not with the same urgency) is symptomatic of a deep sickness in our society.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
There are two major aspects to this. The aspect that seems to be en vogue to talk about is the perpetrators of the crime. The other aspect, that people get very upset when it's talked about, is how to avoid being a victim. As this thread shows, some people automatically assume that discussing how someone can avoid being a victim somehow excuses the behavior of the perpetrators. It doesn't. It merely acknowledges that there are circumstances beyond the control of the would-be victim, and that it is in that individual's interest to control those circumstances that they have influence over to avoid being victimized.
When I meet to buy or sell property through the classifieds I am very mindful of the meeting place and the surrounding circumstances. I don't bring more money than I'm prepared to spend. I keep the money separate from the wallet. If what I'm purchasing or selling is small enough to be readily moved I pick locations that are public, visible, and in safe areas. I pick either times of day where it's light outside, or else I pick places that are more likely to be safe even at dusk or early evening. I leave a printout of where I went with the contact info, I tell someone, and depending on what it is or if I cannot satisfy some of these other conditions (like for large things that will be loaded into a vehicle once and only after purchase) I bring someone along. In any meeting place I attempt to maintain awareness of what's going on around me.
I do these things because while it is completely against the law for someone to rob me, I know that there are people in this world that will try to rob me anyway. I could go through life without taking this kind of care and get indignant when I hear of robberies or when I'm robbed, or I can accept the fact that there are bad people, take precautions to not be harmed by them, and move on with my life.
The nature of the discussion of rape is much of the time in fallacy. In many ways, the motivations of the robber and the rapist are not wholly dissimilar. Both want something. Both are willing to ignore the wants of the victim in order to get it. It's not about power, it's about being callous in taking what one wants against the will of the victim. Both obviously know that it's wrong, but they do it anyway because it's about what they want.
I don't know how effective a system like the one the article describes is going to be. The prosecution of rape is already complicated by the nature of physical evidence and by the difficulty in distinguishing forced sexual contact with consensual sexual contact, becoming increasingly difficult to differentiate as time past the episode passes. Look at accusations against Bill Cosby, somewhere around forty women have accused him of sexually assaulting then, but without physical evidence collected at the time, all Mr. Cosby has to do is invoke his right to not speak with authorities and he will never see the inside of a courtroom. In the case of this escrow idea, if women don't go to the police/hospital to document their attack then justice cannot be served against the attacker. Conviction requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. An accusation without supporting evidence does not meet that standard, even when everything in that accusation is true. I suspect that's why juries are asked to find a defendant either, "guilty," or, "not guilty," rather than, "guilty," or, "innocent." "Not guilty," does not mean innocent. It simply means that it could not be proven.
So that brings us back to the whole point, try to avoid being a victim in the first place. Ideally all bad people would be caught or would stop, but pragmatically, bad people exist and being intelligent about the dangers in the world can prevent or reduce the number of bad things from happening to you.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Some victims are reluctant to report assaults because they aren't sure whether a crime occurred
If as an adult, even a young one on a college campus, you don't KNOW if you were sexual assaulted, than I would argue you were NOT sexually assaulted. You just another special little snow flake that wants to blame someone else for the outcome, even if its nothing more than hurt feelings or shame, for your own poor choices.
Either something happened forcibly and against your will or it did not. You were coerced in some way or not. Its really pretty f'ing simple.
I am going to get accused of victim blaming here but I strongly feel the 'I was to drunk to consent' thing should not fly. If you put a bunch of highly intoxicated people together, someone is going to do something, they in retrospect think was a bad decision. If you are conscience enough to stand and speak you are conscious enough to consent, with proviso you have not been given an intoxicant without your knowledge. Its unfair to expect your 'attacker' to be able to evaluate your sobriety when they are also more than likely highly intoxicated as well.
People simply have to be accountable for their own actions. If you knowing compromise your ability to make good decisions in a situation that isn't entirely safe, that includes only people you know well and trust completely you run the risk of making bad decisions. Including say 'okay' to that sceevy person propositioning you for sex because you don't remember the word 'no' at that moment.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
If it means, "was consensual at the time, and now later I feel bad about it," Then yes, I believe these numbers. If non-consensual is defined by a sane person, then I believe this is hogwash.
"Science is the power of man"
Since this will contain information on people who have not been tried or convicted, or even indicted, I'm curious what protections will be taken to safeguard the data? And, what happens when some idiot decides they all deserve to be made public?
Apologies if the article actually addressed this, I only read the summary.
Just another day in Paradise
You are right to give your daughter that good advice. However, it doesn't follow that we should put any of the blame on victims of rape who dress a certain way or who consume alcohol.
While you can describe an extreme case of irresponsibility, the reality is that most cases don't resemble that. You should read some books by the Roosh V where he describes how he rapes women he meets in bars. Often they are with friends, often he has to pressure them to drink more, and often he takes advantage of their mildly inebriated state by pretending to be a nice guy who is looking out for them, walking them home... Until he starts raping them.
To demonstrate this issue, consider the counterpoint. To be totally blameless and non-responsible in a case of rape, the women must wear a bhurka, and only go out when accompanied by a male relative. Clearly that's ridiculous, but it's the opposite end of the spectrum from your example. The middle is the interesting part, and your advice doesn't really apply there.
It's like telling a pilot not to fly into the ground. Good advice, no doubt, but not very helpful in most common situations.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'm pretty sure he intends to teach his son that rape, murder, etc. are wrong. That's pretty much a given with any responsible parent, I dare say.*
* My apologies to any responsible parents out there teaching their children that rape and murder are cool.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Of marriageable age. Due to gender selection technology and popularity of sons. This imbalance probably aggravates Indias rape problem.
In the US, our society, the male is still expected to be the aggressor. And the girl still often does play somewhat hard to get. In the old days, what was called trying to get to 2nd - 3rd base, can now be called sexual assault, if the girl decides later (after the fact, much later) that's she's mad at the guy or pissed off, for nothing having to do with the mutual groping session.
The PC society and over concern of things of this nature are sending mixed messages to young folks of both sexes.
I'm not talking about overt rape, or violent sexual assault, but instead, redefining what is expected groping for want of a better term....where a girl expects the guy to be an aggressor. Guys often have doubts when and where to try, but know they are expected to. If you don't try some sexual advances, you are doomed to be relinquished to the dreaded "Friend Zone".
*sigh*...what was once known as being a boy, is now termed ADHD and they drug them. What was known (and expected) as males trying for heavy petting, is now borderline (at least) sexual assault.
Common sense on things like this have gone straight out the fucking window....I'm glad I'm not having to grow up in this day in age, with so many mixed messages...and the fear that a normal male with nomal (at least by recent history standards) sexual drives and attempts...can potentially have his life ruined by accusations and permanent exile to the sexual crimes lists out there....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Ah, rereading I think you're right.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Although the numerical balance of genders is even, there may be defacto shortage of marriageable men. Men generally wont marry above their education level. At even degree level, women now outnumber men, sometimes as much as 25%. I read speculation in the New Yorker(?) this encourages the hookup culture.
Goody, another App for an immature generation who cant cant make up their minds or assert what they mean. That didnt seem to be a problem for those growing up in the 20th century. Tech can solve any problem!
Actually there's some evidence contradicting that - though it's probably true of violent rape (as opposed to coerced or exploitative. Though actually coerced is probably lopsided as well since we don't have nearly as many women in positions of power). There's also some evidence suggesting that men under-report rape by much larger margins than women (also domestic abuse). Probably linked to the fact that our culture is steeped in homophobia (in the case of M-M rape) and machismo (in the case of F-M) "She got you drunk and raped you? Really? You expect me to believe you didn't want it?"
But to the main point, yes, rape is (probably) statistically one-sided. Do you really not see a problem with that? Hell, I live in a state with one of the highest rape rates in the country, and my girlfriend avoids walking alone at night out of not-entirely-unreasonable fear. Meanwhile I have enjoyed wandering the streets and parks in the wee hours of the morning for most of my life.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
But this is not only the WHO. It is a major scientific discovery of recent years. I was recently at the conference about violence against women. This is what people talk about.
It seems that the level of violence against women is almost the same all over the world, if measured not by existing reports, but by an independent research. The idea now is that it is the nature of the Homo Sapience.
And violence against women is a major health issue and not only of women, of men too. Read this documentary book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
One can certainly hope. But teaching them something is wrong is a very different thing than teaching them it's something to be feared.
One has to ask why is it that our society creates a certain portion of men who feel entitled to assault women. Is it simply an unfortunate biological truth? Is it born of the same social misogyny that lets men make lewd comments to passing women without censure? Is it driven by the powerless and disenfranchised seeking to assert dominance over *someone*? Is it a symptom of a cultural neglect of the mentally ill? Perhaps it's a combination of many factors, in which case working to reduce those factors within our control will likely result in at least incremental improvements, and possibly disproportionate large ones*
* if it takes three out of seven contributing factors to create a rapist, and you eliminate just one factor, then you can naively expect to eliminate 43% of rapists. 7 factors taken 3 at a time = 35 possible combinations, 20 of which will exclude any given factor (and thus be unaffected by its removal), and 15 of which will include it (15/35=43%). Of course that ignores those unfortunates subjected to 4 or more factors, but I'm only illustrating a point here.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
>The numbers may move a bit due to under reporting or cultural influences but certainly not enough to change the giant gap between the genders.
Oh? So you believe that the differences between male and female rape rates are due almost entirely to unfortunate but unavoidable biological factors? Care to list your peer-reviewed sources? Otherwise it's just personal opinion, and deeper investigation on the subject is called for.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
You didn't read the whole comment, did you? My point, which you didn't address, is that while the extreme example is stupid it's not a very helpful one, because in real life most cases are not that extreme.
Ironic that you complain about "SJWs" not listening in their signature.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Sorry for the confusion: spelling is not one of my strengths. I should have written outcaste, i.e., one not belonging to a caste, usually by birth, instead of outcast, one expelled from a society. "Dalit" would have served me better.
Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
In the US, a man can be convicted of rape by looking at a woman funny. All it takes is an accusation and the man goes to jail and is pretty much automatically guilty.
Of course, legally, men can be raped too, but in reality, they are never reported. I am curious if this new system will be available to men, and what they will do when they find out that the numbers of men being raped is roughly equal to the number of women. It just doesn't fit with the narrative of the poor defenseless woman being abused by the strong violent men.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Perhaps you need to look into the research on what motivates rapists. Violent rape for example rarely has much if anything to do with lust.
As for your "causal rapists" - why do you suppose they think they can get away with it? You don't suppose that just might be related to the way our society reacts to rape, could it? After all there is by necessity an essential witness to their crime (neglecting the minority of unconscious victims), why should they think they could get away with it?
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Can't let this comment go. Saying "Women shouldn't have to tame their behaviour because some guys can't handle it" is not indoctrinated propaganda. It's stating a simple fact.
So let's reverse it - "Men shouldn't have to tame their behaviour because some women can't handle it." See how stupid that sounds?
This whole line of discussion ignores the fact that, even when you take reasonable precautions, bad things happen
Most sexual assaults don't happen on college campuses, many don't involve alcohol use by the victim, many victims don't even know the perp, and often the victims end up with such low self-esteem that they end up wondering if perhaps they were in part to blame. Avoidance isn't always (or even usually) possible.
None of the victims I know were sexually assaulted on a college campus. They range from pre-teens to adults going about their regular business to one woman in her 70s in her home. None of these were reported except the last, and that was only after a lot of fear of the consequences to her marriage of reporting it (the guy ran away when her HUGE dog walked into the room and started growling at him). These are emotional, not logical, problems.Saying "you should just report it and not worry" may seem logical, but it's only easy to say if you haven't been there.
This is one reason why such reporting mechanisms won't produce much in the way of results. It doesn't address this issue, which is that it's emotionally hard to bring yourself to report this to the authorities, with everything that comes with it.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
If a man calls the police claiming that his wife assaulted him, the police will haul him off to jail. The same thing happens if the woman calls. This happened to my ex's new husband, but luckily, she tried to hit him right in front of the police, so they hauled her off, but when the man is automatically the guilty party, there is something seriously wrong in society.
The same is true in rape, if both are drunk, it is always the man who is in the wrong, it couldn't possibly be that the innocent woman initiated it, or took advantage of the drunk guy, it is always the narrative of the drunk guy violently rapped the poor defenseless woman.
My advice to my two boys will be, don't get drunk, drink one drink an hour and no more. Don't sleep with a woman unless she is flat sober. It isn't worth the risk.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Hop hop? Is that the new sock hops? Perhaps you mean Hip hop?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Did it ever get past your misogyny that men aren't always the rapists?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
nonconsensual sex or touching
Reminded me of that Mitch Hedberg bit about filling out a form with only Yes or No checkboxes, and one of the questions was "Have you ever tried sugar or PCP?"
Writhe your naked ass to the mindless groove.
about one-quarter of female undergraduates said they had experienced nonconsensual sex or touching since entering college,
So, they lumped in rape victims with women that had their ass grabbed by a drunk frat guy. How am I suppose to take this "one-quarter" stat seriously?
So feminists, if you're really for equality
Don't look at what they say, look at what they do.
Most of the rape victims I know, there was no alcohol involved.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
In the US, our society, the male is still expected to be the aggressor. And the girl still often does play somewhat hard to get. In the old days, what was called trying to get to 2nd - 3rd base, can now be called sexual assault, if the girl decides later (after the fact, much later) that's she's mad at the guy or pissed off, for nothing having to do with the mutual groping session.
Have you ever considered that even before this was commonly regarded as sexual assault it still wasn't okay? Maybe what you call "playing hard to get" was more like "rejecting the advances of". "Trying to get to 2nd - 3rd base" was more like "wearing her down until she gives in".
Sadly, this is a technique used by pick-up artists. The famous "no means no until it means yes", where initial rejection is ignored or taken simply as a sign that more alcohol/pressure is required.
Personally I've never needed to pester girls for sex. I get to know them, go on a few dates and then we both use subtle cues to escalate to sex, without any pressure or doubt that either of us might be uneasy about it. I really don't buy this argument that it's somehow necessary to be aggressive or hard to be completely consensual.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
And we have yet to hear about women who rape their female partners - such as "revenge fist f*cking."
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Obviously - as I argued that position in a post you replied to just minutes before this one.
Nevertheless, men seem to account for most of the perpetrators (and if that's not actually the case then we also need to tackle the causes of under-reporting as well, which are almost certainly largely unconnected to the causes of rape)
Moreover that changes very little about my argument - we need to study and address the underlying causes of rape. I offered up some speculative possibilities, only one of which mentions gender, and thought I established that I suspect there are actually many contributing factors. To go further I suspect that *some* of those factors are in fact gender specific, and thus will have to be addressed in a gender-specific manner.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
My apologies. I saw a post that seemed to be screaming the same sexism as the article and didn't realize you had elsewhere indicated otherwise.
I jumped the gun.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Perhaps we are talking past each other. Yes, the numbers are what they are - but they suggest a social endemic that should be addressed, because it's not right that half of our species should have to live in fear and curtail their activities.
The numbers after all aren't magically inviolate, they reflect a social reality - and the shape of society is something we all have a say in, and a responsibility to guide in "good" directions.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
What counts as nonconsensual touching? If someone comes up and puts their arm around your shoulder and then removes it when you either move or ask them to remove is that considered nonconsensual touch? If so, I would imagine it's more like 80-90% of both males and females have experienced nonconsensual touch at college.
Is this limited to just sexual touch? Breasts, crotch, butt? What about a flirtatious pat on the leg? What about a nonflirtatious pat on the back?
Accepted.
May I ask what exactly screamed sexism to you?
I ask because this is a topic that I feel is worthy of being addressed, and has certain unavoidably sexist overtones thanks to the extremely lopsided distribution of reported offenses (similar to police oppression - not all victims are minorities, but it's difficult to discuss the problem without including race). I've often found myself arguing the other side of the coin specifically because some extremists do advocate policies that would oppress all men in order to (maybe) curtail a few bad apples, and such a cure risks being worse than the disease.
The more we can find language to clearly express the problem, the better chance we have of finding solutions that make life better for everyone. Maybe even the would-have-been rapists.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Bunny culture.
One has to ask why is it that our society creates a certain portion of men who feel entitled to assault women.
That was the start. It is the same thing that creates a portion of women who feel they can do it, or men who think they can assault other men, or women who assault other women. By restricting it to one sex attacking the other, it frames the argument that it can't go other ways.
Studies done with controlling for under reporting often show that men are raped at about the same rate as women, within a couple percent. So whenever I see people framing it as men raping women, it bothers me; if the problem is prevalent on both sides, why not address the issue at its root instead of as a male vs female issue.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Second time in a week I accidentally rated a comment, damnit. Undoing all moderations unfortunately.
There are two separate things here.
First, girls and women should be careful to avoid crimes against them. This includes getting too drunk or stoned at parties and locking their car doors, among other good advice.
Second, if a man rapes a woman, it's the man's fault and crime. A woman is not required to take actions to deter crime, so she has no legal liability if she leaves her car doors unlocked and her car is stolen (although the insurance company may not feel responsible).
I'm getting the impression this isn't getting through.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
It's not fact, it's an opinion that makes it out that the problem is that "some guys can't handle it". Thank you for confirming the statement you were trying to invalidate by stating that is fact.
From what I've read, rape tends to be to establish power over someone, rather than getting laid, while a robber is more likely to be in it for the money.
A rape kit (to collect forensic evidence) involves serious intrusion, and some women have said it was as bad as the rape. From what I've read, the kit is to establish who the rapist was, once caught, and so it's of limited use when A rapes B and it's generally known that A had sex with B, and the question is consent.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/...
Not saying that matches the reaction indicated, but at least gives you enough info to dig further.
No, I havent.
Violence against men is a larger health issue for men. It's also far more prevalent than violence against women.
That doesn't resolve the mid-coitus change of mind that requires immediate disentanglement or it's rape. Or sexual assault, in the UK, if it's the man that changed his mind.
TFA:
According to a recent study of 27 schools, about one-quarter of female undergraduates and students who identified as queer or transgender said they had experienced nonconsensual sex or touching since entering college, but most of the students said they did not report it to school officials or support services.
TFS:
According to a recent study of 27 schools, about one-quarter of female undergraduates said they had experienced nonconsensual sex or touching since entering college, but most of the students said they did not report it to school officials or support services.
Don't know where you got that highly specific flavor of transsexual, but it is not in the article, summary OR the study.
Study specifically bundles all transsexuals into a single category in order to have anything that looks like a percentage.
Using responses to this question, students were classified into one of four groups: (1) female, (2) male, (3) transgender, genderqueer or nonconforming, questioning or not listed (TGQN), and (4) decline to state.
Groups were collapsed into TGQN to maintain adequate sample size for generating estimates.
And when those, "when we sum up everything and anything and just call all of it rape" percentages, get converted to real cases they come out to about 20705.93 female, 3484.93 male and 388.64 TGQN cases of unwanted sexual... something.
So... Even with their VERY weird and inflated numbers - trans-numbers are SO LOW that the other category's errors are eating them up.
It is really NOT about "transexual / queer gendered females". Sorry.
But since "transsexual" is a better click-bait than nine times that many males reporting the exact same thing...
Fuck the males. Must be some kinda pansy faggots if they're being afraid of sex or if they are getting raped. Fuckin commie pinko pansies.
Fuck em. They don't deserve to be in the article. What do you mean "lower report rate"?
There should be NO report rate at all if they want to call themselves men.
Do you think John Wayne would report "unwanted sexual activity"? FUCK NO!
He was so manly his girly name became a boy name all on it's own! Scratch that! Not a boy name! A MAN NAME!
JOOOOOHHHHHHNNNNNN!!!
Wait... what was I talking about... ah yes... shitty study and survey.
BTW...
Asking someone repeatedly (though they've said no) to go out, have dinner or drinks - is the same as asking them repeatedly for sex.
D5. Since you have been a student at [University], has a student, or someone employed by or otherwise associated with [University]continued to ask you to go out, get dinner, have drinks or have sex even though you said, "No"?
Yes
Never experienced
Which is all the same as telling crude jokes.
And here I thought my ex-boss was only fucking with our minds and our wallets.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Some subjects the feminists seem curiously quiet about.
http://www.autostraddle.com/wh...
Pushing past a woman in the hallway is not violence as stated. To count, the woman would have to be physically restrained or incapacitated. It's possible that there's false or biased reporting here, but that happens, and should be studied independently.
If I grab a woman and hold her while I feel her ass or boobs, that qualifies. That's going to be a traumatic experience, although it isn't rape. If I make a quick grab at an ass or a boob, that doesn't. Legally, whether there's a difference probably varies by jurisdiction, but one is relevant to the survey and one isn't.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Please give a citation for your first statement. I have heard that it's about power for ever and ever, but no one ever substantiates that claim. That why I question that. Why would it be about power? Power to do what? That's why I said that fundamentally they have a lot in common. Both want something. Both don't care that they're victimizing in order to get it.
As for your other statement, I have no doubt that a rape kit is traumatic. On the other hand, bruises and other tissue damage heals, drugs that might have been introduced into the victim against their knowledge will metabolize-out; evidence will be lost. Which is more traumatic, being seen-to by a doctor, or potentially seeing one's rapist for the next so-many-years with no recourse?
As for this escrow system, reporting to it without reporting to the police does not stop the perpetrator. It does not well-document the perpetrator's actions in a way that can be factually cited. It is no better than the past victims giving personal testimony, and arguably could be worse because it allows the defense to call into question the motives of those who come forward because they did not come forward to the police earlier, and could possibly be excluded as evidence or even could help the defense prevent previous-victim-witnesses from being allowed to testify.
The only way to fight back may be a poor way to do so, but there is no better way at the moment, as anything else becomes word against word or word against the right to say nothing at all.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
The main problem with the whole campus rape situation is that there is a perverse set of incentives at work that `reward' women who claim to be rape victims.
Not sure how many have been on a college campus recently. The amount of feminist propaganda and anti-male posturing is bordering on the comical. There are so many SJWs and other activists who are waiting for any male/female incident to happen, to blow up out of proportion, get on the news and ultimately enhance their own careers. A `victim' who comes out is immediately elevated to the status of feminist heroine. Her opinion is sought. There is often press coverage. There is talk of lawsuits and large financial compensation. A regular woman whom no-one would have looked at twice is suddenly enjoying the sort of fame and prestige usually enjoyed by cheerleaders. Even if her accusations ultimately prove false, she suffers no consequences whatsoever, and in fact her prestige among the feminist crowd actually increases. Look at that woman who is dragging a mattress all around campus, drawing attention to her `raped' status.
https://www.google.com/search?q=lesbian+rape&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Now you have heard of it.
"about one-quarter of female undergraduates said they had experienced nonconsensual sex or touching since entering college" I get non-consensually touched every day. I have one of those things where I don't like being touched. A pat on the back, a grab on the arm, getting bumped into on the bus, I hate it all. Officially that qualifies as "non-consensual sex or touching" even though 0% of it involves sex.
I'm always weary of any research which uses such vague classifications.
Clearly you did not grow up in the United States. The poster you are replying to is discussing the social and media programming of females that grew up in the United States. His words have no meaning for those in India, Iceland, or Ireland. That means that if you grew up in one of those places where females are programmed differently, then you should just be quiet.
You know that "kill all men" was actually invented by the MRAs, right? No, really. A feminist was talking on Twitter about how games where you have to kill only men are somehow okay but when women are introduced that somehow makes them worse, hashtag #killallmen. Some MRAs picked up on it and astroturfed it into a think, and the feminists started using the hashtag ironically to mock them.
I won't even bother with the rest of your clap trap.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
We have lost ourselves in an attempt to be politically correct in this society. Here's what I mean..
A young man sees a a young girl and finds her attractive and approaches her. Not physically restraining her, or drugging her or any other form of persuation other than expressing interest. and by the current ideology of militant feminists he has committed rape. No, I'm not kidding.. as defined by rabid feminists simply by trying to communicate that he is attracted to a female in a perfectly normal way he has made 'unwanted advances' and made her uncomfortable by 'forcing her' to say no, or to say she's not interested.
There is a current trend in some colleges to create 'safe zones' for women.. in essence, a place where no males are allowed to enter. According to some, merely having a biological male in their presence makes them feel as if they are in danger of being raped. The inherent sexism in this is lost on them.. only women need to be protected and shielded and only their rights should be respected. I read yesterday where they are trying to expand that so that it specifically lists 'white people' as well.. because minorities can't feel equal or unpersecuted unless there aren't any white people around. To entertain EITHER of these odious ideas is not only unconstitutional it's madness. Rape should have very clear definitions... talking to someone is NOT rape. LOOKING at someone is not rape. Having consensual sex with someone that is inebriated is NOT rape. It may be poor judgement on both parties involved, but it's NOT rape.
If I sound stupid, it's not me talking....
Real feminists aren't anti-male. They have fathers as well as mothers, sons as well as daughters, brothers as well as sisters, uncles as well as aunts, and are as willing to stand up for equal rights for both men and women. Of course, that doesn't fit in with the new "textus receptus" of the SJWs and extreme feminists, whose radical exclusionary policies do not let men participate because they are "the enemy", and women who want dialog instead of complaining are traitors or have been co-opted or brainwashed.
You can't argue with a cult. And real feminists want everywhere to be considered a "safe space" for both sexes.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Regardless of how it started, it's been adopted by an awful lot of feminists and is still being used by them NOW. Google #killallmen. Look at who is using it and how old the hits are, I double dog dare you!
As for the facts and verifiable statements / actions of feminists you blithely dismiss, I salute you. Not just everyone can take that many solid examples of something and pretend that calling them "clap trap" means they have been refuted.
"From what I've read" does not require a citation. I haven't dug into it myself, and can't say it on my own knowledge.
I don't know what's more traumatic, and I suspect it would vary from woman to woman.
The escrow situation is to encourage reporting. It isn't a "me-too" situation. If Alice gets raped in January, Betty in February, and Carla in March, then Alice might have used the app in January, Betty in February, and Carla might hit the escrow threshold. If Alice and Betty and Carla would have brought the police in, then the app is not really helping. If there's a record of Alice alleging rape in January, and an apparently independent report from Betty in February, then I don't know what the legalities are, but it's got to be better than coming forth just for the trial.
Also, it's entirely possible that there's no proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Alice was raped, or that Betty was raped, or that Carla was raped, and a rape prosecutor has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the man raped a specific woman at a specific time. Rape trials are a difficult way to punish or deter rape, and charging in and considering the man guilty on accusation is certainly no better.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Have you ever considered that even before this was commonly regarded as sexual assault it still wasn't okay? Maybe what you call "playing hard to get" was more like "rejecting the advances of". "Trying to get to 2nd - 3rd base" was more like "wearing her down until she gives in".
Sadly, this is a technique used by pick-up artists.
I mostly agree, there are two issues though, one touched on in yout last sentence I quoted. If a woman feels that the guy is being an idiot, she should get up and leave. Responsible guys have always been responsive to a "no". I grew up and sowed my share of wild oats. But any time a young lady told me " no thanks", we just settled back and watched the movie or TV. I didn't even sulk or anything.
But now onto to the assholes. Yes, if a guy can't keep his hands to himself, and the woman doesn't want any of that, it's time to go. And while we've all heard the "Fuck or Walk" stories, but I've never heard of one campus assault performed in that manner. It's always been a frat party, or someone invited to the dorm room.
But the problem with all of these matters is that while prudent guys will decide its simply better to LWA, the assholes won't be affected a bit. That's certainly how it worked in the Sexual Harassment wars of the late 80's on campus, and the prudent men decided that their careers were worth more than any sort of interaction with the women in the workforce - which by the way, pissed off most of the women - while the guys who harassed women didn't miss a beat.
Ladies - if a guy assaults you - have him arrested. There's never an excuse for sexual assault. Programs are nice and all, but the power resides in your timely reportage.
Guys? What's your future worth?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Now if we only found an effective, level-headed way to deal with the agressors: granted, the agression has to stop (better after two reports than never, but one feels even that is two reports too late).
It's tough speaking to hormones, but if you avoid putting yourself into the situations the women will not be bothered, and you won't get into trouble.
Sounds draconian, but quite effective.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
No, giving the advice to avoid wolf-filled woods is always a good idea. But the fact that you wouldn't feel compelled to give your son the same advice (or at least not with the same urgency) is symptomatic of a deep sickness in our society.
Actually, the advice is different, but essentially the same. My mother sat with me one day and said "Look at that girl across from you on your date. If you like the idea of looking at her for the rest of your life, or going to jail, or paying child support, have fun. Otherwise keep it in your pants."
As opposed to a sign of societal sickness, the differing advice is based on the consequences. Women do bear most of the consequenses of sexual activity.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
"From what I've read" does not require a citation. I haven't dug into it myself, and can't say it on my own knowledge.
Then you're passing-on unverified information as if it's factual. If it's patently incorrect then it actually furthers harm, especially if people attempt build defenses based on this fallacy.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
fake news proving that Dice has turned slashdot into shit.
Let's put fear into all Canadians and Americans to never have sex with a woman ever again, feminists and muslims win, now they can all have muslim babies, give more vindictive women power to put innocent people away, wohooo, oww right this is already happening, becoming a minority in your own country cause of more abuse of legal system! If they want equal power give men ability to put these women in jail to.
I just can't believe that when a drunk man and a drunk woman decide to have sex that somehow the man becomes predator and the woman is a victim.
Is a woman somehow inferior to a man when it comes to making drunk decisions to the point that she is absolved of all responsibility for her decisions while drunk?
Is a man somehow superior to a woman when it comes to making drunk decisions to the point that he is always held accountable for his decisions while drunk?
When a woman goes to a bar, blacks out, and wakes up naked beside an ugly man does she get to scream rape when she regrets it?
When I go to a bar, black out, and wake up naked beside an ugly woman do I get to scream rape when I regret it?
The answer to all these questions is NO! Neither sex should have any special privileges when it comes to personal responsibility. When you give women the ability to scream rape to absolve themselves of their own stupid decisions then you encourage them to do so.
Have you ever looked looked at a situation like this and thought "how would I feel about this situation if the roles were reversed"? You should for every situation, otherwise you are going to fall for emotional beliefs which have no basis in reality.
You're right, it is a symptom of a deep sickness in our society. Especially since the numbers on rape and sexual assault are symmetrical between men and women. He should certainly be giving his son, if he has one, the same talk. The sickness in our society is that we label men as evil-doers and women as precious, blameless, and innocent. Neither men nor women are inherently evil or innocent, yet when things like this are discussed it is done with the assumption that men are evil ravenous beasts that would rape every woman they meet if only we didn't remind them on a regular basis that it is wrong.
The sickness in this society is that we are all biased and cannot see that we are. We are so concerned about the fact that women get raped that when you as much as mention that men get raped too you are treated as if you said that women don't matter and you hate all women. This is the true sickness in our society.
How does a woman rape a man? Is she spiking the alcohol with viagra? Alcohol, in quantities that removes one's self control also removes one's erection.
What exactly are we talking about here? Grab and take? Or just repeatedly asking? Begging?
If a friend wants $5 to go buy lunch or a beer or something and I don't want to give it.. if he keeps bugging me, asking me for it, "wears me down until I give in" that isn't theft.
By that same logic I don't think repeatedly asking for sex until she gives in is rape. It is annoying. It is behavior that should probably be responded to by cutting ties, not rewarded by sex. But it's not rape.
He didn't say that it did excuse anyone who 'just go[es] raping people'. I really doubt that anyone is ever going to seriously come on and argue that rape is ok. If they do then it's probably either a very imature troll or someone with serious mental issues that probably should be locked away for the safety of society.
Fault is not a zero-sum game. There have been many many cases reported publicly of girls chosing to attend frat parties where the frats were already well known for getting girls drunk and doing things to them. Then they chose to consume large amounts of alcohol and even go upstairs. That certainly puts them at fault for their own situation while in no way lessening the fault of the rapist.
The fact that a victim may be at fault for putting themselves in a bad situation does NOT excuse the perpetrator. They still absolutely belong in jail. Also, it is not nice to point out the victim's fault when the victim is already emotionally suffering from what has been done to them.
However... life is not nice. I think that by pretending that a person is not responsible for the situations that they knowingly walk into is very dangerous. It is a disservice to the next girl who might have learned better. If girls think it is ok to walk into such situations then there will always be predators inviting them in.
I will certainly be teaching my daughter that walking into such a situation is both dangerous and stupid. I won't just point to such stories and say see.. there are bad people that would want to rape you (although I will say that). I will also point to the girl and say see.. if you do these things you put yourself in danger, don't be like her. I love her enough not to pretend that the world is nice and just hand her over to the wolves only to complain about them after they have eaten her.
Alcohol is relatively crude as a "date-rape" drug - often it's spiked with something much more effective if the perpetrator is an premeditated scum-bag rather than an opportunistic one. (also, I can attest that your claim is definitely not true for all men - my equipment works fine even when puking drunk, if a bit sluggishly.) For other forms of rape... well, human biology will very often do its thing even over strenuous objections from the mind. I've heard that can often be one of the most confusing and traumatic aspects for rape victims, especially since biology tends to drag at least some facets of the mind along with it.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.