Slashdot Mirror


US Budget Bill Passes With CISA Surveillance Intact (npr.org)

An anonymous reader writes: Early on Friday, the U.S. Senate approved the 2,000 page 'omnibus' budget bill that allocated $1.15 trillion in government funding. Later in the day, President Obama signed it into law. Because the budget bill was so important, many other pieces of unrelated legislation were tacked onto it, including the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act, a bill notable for giving the government increased internet surveillance powers. Civil rights activists and tech experts largely consider it a "privacy disaster," and several lawmakers voted against the budget bill solely for CISA's inclusion. Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) said, "Unfortunately, this misguided cyber legislation does little to protect Americans' security, and a great deal more to threaten our privacy than the flawed Senate version. Americans demand real solutions that will protect them from foreign hackers, not knee-jerk responses that allow companies to fork over huge amounts of their customers' private data with only cursory review." Corporations in the U.S. will now have "legal immunity when sharing consumers' private data about hacks and digital breaches." The full omnibus is available online (PDF). The CISA provisions start on page 1,728.

81 of 153 comments (clear)

  1. War on Privacy by pellik · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is privacy such an enemy of the state now that they have to push it through in the budget bill? Why is ramming this through such a high priority for the Senate? Privacy used to be a second class issue. It hurts to watch our interests be so blatantly ignored by our governing body.

    1. Re:War on Privacy by KGIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I believe, if certain Slashdot posters are to be taken as the consensus, it's the Republicans and they want us to die.

      Actually, I think they just don't actually give a shit any more.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    2. Re:War on Privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Politicians don't care what you want because you're not the one giving them campaign money. Until we have real meaningful campaign finance reform we're never going to have politicians that care what we think.

      Politicians claim that they do not give donors special considerations, so we should call their bluff. Instead of a book full of complicated campaign finance laws we just need a simple government agency that processes all campaign contributions and anonymizes them before giving them to the candidate of choice. That way the Koch Bros can still donate millions to whomever they wish, but their candidate will have no way to know where the money came from. The agency simply scrubs the contribution of all identifying information, and disburses the funds in such a way that the particular amount or timing of the contribution can't be used as a code (i.e., "hey Bob, I donated $1,000,001.50 yesterday, so that check is me").

      If politicians really don't give their donors special considerations they will have no reason to object to such a system.

    3. Re:War on Privacy by tlambert · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I believe this bill was making it's way through the legislative process and then the Eric Snowden disclosure happened.

      And? The concurrency of the two unrelated things is rather irrelevant. The Snowden disclosure happened because (A) The government was engaged in illegal activity, and (B) Snowden decided to be a whistleblower.

      Which would have been a protected action, were he an employee, but instead head was a 1099 contractor, like all the Uber drivers.

      How many high profile network break-ins have happened since then?

      Lots. They're generally not announced to the public, unless they involve credit cards or medical records.

      Juniper Networks just announced yesterday a major compromise.

      No, they announced a software patch for a problem that could have been used to compromised the security of VPN communications, but there's no evidence that it was ever used to do so, and some evidence that the change was made to the system by the employee of a government agency to allow them to eavesdrop on VPN conversations.

      OPM was hacked and information for 20Million current and former employees and their spouses and children were compromised.

      The agency should not have been keeping records on their spouses and children, since they were not employees, but even so, the compromised information was mishandled by the OPM. This was not a demonstration of skill on the part of the people who penetrated the system, it was a demonstration of incompetence on the people who were tasked with ensuring the system could not be penetrated.

      This legislation has been needed for years. It is about time congress passed it.

      This legislation was never needed. It's only utility is for making information collection for government agencies an unfunded mandate that has to be paid for by the companies whose systems the information is transiting.

      The purpose of doing this is to make the companies adding strong privacy features to their software, particularly mobile phone and tablet software, among others, responsible for, and punishable for not, revealing said information, on demand, and without warrant.

      In other words, it's an attempt to force companies to include back doors, or face fines when demands for information simply can not be accomodated to the governments satisfaction, for technological and mathematical reasons.

      BTW: You have your dates wrong: the Snowden disclosure occurred in 2013; the bill was first introduced to to the Senate Intelligence Committe over a hear later, in 2013, during the 113th congress.

      It's a really asinine piece of legislation. Paul Ryan (R, WI) should be removed from office over this nasty piece of crap, let alone the way he got it shoved through.

    4. Re: War on Privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      The bill offers immunity to PRISM partners and telcos/ISPs who collaborate with the government to spy on US citizens. Snowden's leaks raised the possibility that citizens would sue the private collaborators for betraying private data to the government without judicial oversight. Now, that can't happen, because in the middle of a 2,000 page amendment to a budget bill the government has promised immunity to those who help the government spy on its citizens without a warrant.

    5. Re:War on Privacy by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      You clearly do not have any idea why OPM had the data it had. It has been discussed here plenty of times so I won't waste time being redundant. It is so much a bigger deal than what you think. Epic does not begin to hint at the implications.

    6. Re:War on Privacy by nmb3000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is privacy such an enemy of the state now that they have to push it through in the budget bill? Why is ramming this through such a high priority for the Senate? Privacy used to be a second class issue. It hurts to watch our interests be so blatantly ignored by our governing body.

      I agree, which is why I strongly suggest that everyone interested in this take a minute to look at the omnibus vote records from the House and the one for the Senate. If your representatives voted different than you want, take a few minutes to reach out to them. A phone call, email, or even (gasp) a physical letter will let them know what you think.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    7. Re:War on Privacy by erikkemperman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are countless avenues within U.S. gov't that he could have followed

      Really? Name one whistleblower who followed one of those "countless avenues" to any effect, while not having G-men systematically wreck their lives.

      Thomas Drake and friends tried, and suffered for it.

      --
      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    8. Re:War on Privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As some whose entire (fingerprints, history, and the information of my family and friends... they got it all) information is out in the wild from the OPM hack, and someone that had to deal with illegal government requests from Qwest (don't ever refuse if you know what's good for you), I'd like to point out how piss-poor OPM security measures were (it took years of threatening lawsuits just to get "on file" listed in place of SS on SBU forms that travel within and outside my agency) and how this will actually decrease the security of everyone.

      The government has already proven they are incapable of securing anyone's information, and they have now opened the floodgates for everyone's information to be targeted.

      That this was passed under such tenuous conditions should make it clear how nefarious this legislation is. The government has declared its own people enemies of the state.

    9. Re:War on Privacy by richardtallent · · Score: 1

      I read the bill. Disclosure of security threats is completely VOLUNTARY for individuals, private companies, local/state governments, utilities, etc. ("non-Federal entities"). There is no mandate. There are no demands for back doors. There is no provision for unfettered sharing of network traffic, only a mechanism for voluntary sharing of information about detected threats. Even then, they must be careful to strip away any unrelated personal information.

      I'm a BIG believer in personal privacy and 4th Amendment protections, but I'm a little disappointed by the "Chicken Little" rhetoric about this bill compared to what is actually contains.

    10. Re:War on Privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      More Democrats than Republicans voted for this Omnibus (As in, "Everything you want aboard the Omni-bus!") budget bill, in both the House and Senate.

      But don't worry, Slashdot's nerds will always blame the Republicans, as usual.

    11. Re:War on Privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      More Democrats than Republicans voted for this Omnibus

      I'll give you that, now answer me something. Who (from which party) inserted CISA into the budget bill?

    12. Re:War on Privacy by Blue+Stone · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I read a rather insightful comment elsewhere saying that our securocrats have simply redefined privacy.

      Privacy is now defined as 'the state not currently looking at what information they hold on you'.

      Rather chilling, I thought.

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    13. Re:War on Privacy by kheldan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Is privacy such an enemy of the state now that they have to push it through in the budget bill?

      Riders on sweeping bills like the one that keeps the Federal government's doors open are SOP for our government, and has been for a long time now. Very often things literally get sneaked into it, hoping it doesn't get noticed, considering the full text of the bill is thousands of pages. It's 'high priority' for the Senate because otherwise the Federal government literally shuts down due to no funding; people literally get sent home without pay, contractors don't get paid, services to citizens stop, etc.

      ..enemy of the state..

      Yes, apparently, it is, now. Look at how the younger generation views the concept of 'privacy': they 'share' every gods-be-damned little thing on social media platforms, never really giving a single thought to who or how many people are actually able to access and use that data however they wish, and they're convinced that anyone who values 'privacy' and goes out of their way to keep their lives private are either 'too old to understand' or that they're criminals/terrorists/predators and 'have something to hide'. This (in my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, please) is due to the younger generation having been indoctrinated, from birth, to believe 'privacy is bad and selfish', and 'good people share', and Corporate America and our own government is behind it. Three-letter agencies love being able to see everything all the time, and if they had their fondest wishes, I wouldn't at all be surprised if they'd have us required to have cameras and microphones in our homes and in our vehicles, 'for our own safety', naturally, but so far pesky things like the rule of law, the Constitution, and the concept of basic human rights has kept them from doing things like that.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    14. Re:War on Privacy by ClickOnThis · · Score: 4, Informative

      Who (from which party) inserted CISA into the budget bill?

      Apparently, it was House speaker Paul Ryan (R).

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    15. Re:War on Privacy by ClickOnThis · · Score: 2
      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    16. Re:War on Privacy by bruce_the_loon · · Score: 2

      I'm not quite sure where the idea came from, maybe the Brits, but South Africa has a brilliant article in our constitution that a bill dealing with the appropriation of fund or taxation can only deal with that and no other item.

      Somewhere we learned that lesson that the US government doesn't want to have to learn.

      --
      Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
    17. Re: War on Privacy by DivineKnight · · Score: 2

      Unlimited access to blackmail. There are still details about citizen's lives that are not collected through these apparatuses, but to be honest, they aren't details that these people are interested in.

    18. Re:War on Privacy by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Actually, quite the opposite is true. I was suggesting people calm down, that they think before responding, that they be careful about what they asked for, and that this was a rare thing with no need to go crazy in response. I was called a troll, an idiot, a traitor, and worse. So, no... I did not want this. I did not want it then. I do not want it now. I still stand by my statements made back then. "This is a statistical anomaly and it sucks but let's not lose our shit and end up doing stupid things just to respond and to be doing something." (That's probably close to verbatim.)

      Anyhow, no... I wasn't even alone in my cautioning. We were called trolls. We were derided. We were called insensitive jerks. We were called terrorists, abettors, and stupid. Why? For suggesting we not do stupid shit like the Patriot Act, DHS, TSA, no-fly lists, etc.... But, here you have it and no, not all of us wanted it then or now. I prefer freedom to false security. Hell, I prefer freedom to complete security. I accept the risks. I was not alone in my posting. A few others dared to speak up. I think more felt that way but didn't dare speak up. I'm not sure that I blame them for not speaking up. We were drowned out by stupid people knee-jerking because they were afraid. They're still cowards.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    19. Re: War on Privacy by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Millennials

      Well there's that too I've noticed, but if you ask them if they worry about people they don't know seeing everything they post about their lives, where they are at particular times, and all the photos of them that are tagged with their names, they look at you like you're nuts; they just don't get it.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    20. Re:War on Privacy by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      That's not quite accurate. Paul Ryan presented the whole budget omibus bill after long negotiations that would ensure enough votes for passage. Lots of passages were likely added to the 2000-page omnibus bill at the request of various people to secure their votes. Who exactly wanted the CISA thing added is unclear, but clearly Paul Ryan was okay with it ending up in the final version.

      But saying he was primarily responsible to requesting it to be put in there on the first place? We don't really know that, and because negotiations before the final draft went on "behind closed doors," it's not likely we could know for sure who wanted it.

    21. Re: War on Privacy by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      Does this law grant exemption from American copyright law? Your private emails and phone calls should qualify, and your ISP (and the government) is clearly making and distributing unauthorized copies. Based on statutory fines alone this should be bigger than the US Federal debt.

    22. Re:War on Privacy by anti-disney · · Score: 1

      Yes it is important and like any other legislation our politicians see as important, if the legislation is rejected by voters they simply attach it to other bills such as budget bills. The US Government has been trying to eliminate privacy for many years. First they wanted to monitor the internet and phone conversations to win the "war on drugs" then it was to catch sex offenders and now it is a "necessary tool" for the war on terror. Even though CISA was rejected by US Citizens our politicians feel that they know better than us and will do whatever they can to pass CISA which is why it ended up being attached to a budget bill. If Congress or the President tries to stop the legislation, they will be accused of not supporting the budget even if the reason is they were opposed to CISA but we all know that both parties strongly support legislation such as CISA.

    23. Re:War on Privacy by anti-disney · · Score: 1

      Qwest is a company that operated in the West and Northwest who was bought out by the crappy company CenturyLink. Shortly after the 9/11 attacks the government asked telco's to voluntarily give phone data to the US Government. Qwest refused and it is believed that one of their CEO's that was charged with an unrelated charge and spent time in federal prison was charged in retaliation for refusing to hand over their customer information after 9/11 like the rest of the telco's did.

    24. Re:War on Privacy by anti-disney · · Score: 1

      Let me add that the Patriot Act was probably just a bunch of inserted bills that prior to 9/11 were unable to pass and had so many last minute add-ons that the paper was still warm from being printed when Congress passed the Patriot Act. Another example is the Affordable Care Act where Congresswoman Feinstein was quoted as saying "we have to pass it before we know what's in it".

  2. Nuremberg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I am disgusted by how many people happily accepted this situation where the government actively works against the public interest, all in the name of security, for your own good.

    All the people responsible for this treachery, and the people working for them, deserve a fair trial.

    1. Re:Nuremberg by WaffleMonster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have you read the act?

      Have you?

      Try that first before equating the United States with Nazi Germany

      I find it interesting when people invoke Godwin in a dismissive tone as if people are crazy for drawing comparisons. Nazi Germany was allowed to occur because of a whole series of events and defects in human character which really do have parallels everywhere.

  3. VPN by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    Get a VPN already, Slashdot offers a lifetime PureVPN membership for 69$, but the offer is only valid for the next 14 hours.

    https://deals.slashdot.org/sal...

    1. Re:VPN by KGIII · · Score: 4, Informative

      I contacted them in the past. They log.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    2. Re:VPN by Blue+Stone · · Score: 1

      If they're in the USA and log, they're effectively agents for the state, now.

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    3. Re:VPN by Chewbacon · · Score: 1

      Use Private Internet Access and a server in a jurisdiction that doesn't log.

      --
      Chewbacon
      The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
    4. Re:VPN by GrandCow · · Score: 1

      I would jump all over this if they listed anything about not keeping records.

      The VPN I currently use makes a specific note about not keeping any records as a selling point, and they haven't given me any reason to believe otherwise so far.

      --
      "Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try." -Homer Simpson
    5. Re:VPN by GrandCow · · Score: 1

      In the very next sentence after you got that 5 years from, it says you can renew it for free.

      Subscription term is for 5 years. At the conclusion of the 5-year term, customers may renew their subscriptions completely free-of-charge by contacting support@stackcommerce.com.

      --
      "Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try." -Homer Simpson
    6. Re:VPN by Burz · · Score: 3, Informative

      PIA doesn't log IIRC, and they have good deals.

      Here is an email guide to start with (there are no ideally private email providers, but many are better than gmail). Riseup and ProtonMail look interesting.

      A note about using PGP email: This still leaves a trail that is rich in metadata (the who/when/where parts of the messages). Only the what is concealed, leaving much to be desired.

      More interesting are new messaging apps which the EFF has rated. I think Signal, Ostel+Jitsi and RetroShare look the most promising. Ring is a newcomer that uses OpenDHT and promises to be what Skype might have been.

      For just increasing privacy a couple notches while browsing, add the following extensions (Firefox): Privacy Badger, HTTPS Everywhere, Adblock Edge (not sure if AE is really needed with PB). Using a Firefox derivative like IceWeasel or PaleMoon won't likely include ad-based features that might compromise privacy (though Mozilla is said to have removed ads anyway).

      As for browsing with Tor, you cannot beat Qubes OS with the Whonix package. This will help you blend in more and prevent exploits over Tor from accessing any personal data. A system with IOMMU hardware and BIOS is recommended.

      After all these years, I2P is still progressing and growing. It marries technologies like onion routing and DHT and its 'I2P Bote' messenger may be the best in class, IMO. Of course, I2P is meant to route all kinds of traffic and even has bittorrent built-in. I'd also recommend running I2P in a Qubes domain, although it comes with TAILS if you're more comfortable booting with that.

    7. Re:VPN by DivineKnight · · Score: 2

      How about no? I say we rent a bus, park it out front of the capitol, and begin throwing people under it until such time as they rescind this "law."

      Quietly ceding territory has never been a good long term strategy, and freedoms lost due to appeasements are rarely restored with ease.

    8. Re:VPN by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The problem with a VPN is that the US and UK security services have no problem with allowing them. ie discovery of the original ip does not pose any real technical challenge to most advanced nations (5 eye and friends).
      "No logs" becomes moot if the original network or provider ip leaks or is recoverable every session.
      With CISA entire private sector networks can become an part of "collect it all" portal for the US gov/mil at a telco or brand level.
      No more privacy protections, US court limitations, questions by lawyers, internal company legal oversight. Just another new server now splitting every network for the US gov 24/7.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    9. Re:VPN by anti-disney · · Score: 1

      Even if a company doesn't want to reveal logs to the government they could be forced to. For example the company Lavabit had encrypted emails and the NSA wanted a back door installed and the company to hand over the encryption keys. The founder of the company refused and had to shut down his company because he didn't want to violate the privacy of his customers by handing over the keys and installing a back door. Any company that is physically located in the US or within US jurisdiction cannot be trusted.

  4. Why do you allow this travesty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Completely unrelated laws "riding" on other bills... There should be a law against that.

    1. Re: Why do you allow this travesty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Either the senate's rules should be changed to disallow riders, or we should reconsider the line item veto (43 states have it, according to Wikipedia). I think the former makes a ton more sense.

    2. Re:Why do you allow this travesty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This.
      Someone should ride that law onto one of these bills.
      The irony would be incredible.

    3. Re:Why do you allow this travesty? by KGIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We'll have to tack it onto the next budget.

      I wish I were kidding.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    4. Re:Why do you allow this travesty? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Many countries HAVE a law against that.

    5. Re:Why do you allow this travesty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The US tried it, several ways. The problem is that the Congress is given authority to write bills however it wants (with a very few restrictions) by the Constitution. So no law or rule of Congress can prevent Congress from doing whatever it pleases with bills.
      The Line-Item Veto was a different attempt to rein in the Congress, but that too was unconstitutional, because it expanded veto powers beyond the clearly spelled out limits.

      If you want rules like one-topic-per-bill, or line item veto, then it has to be a Constitutional Amendment. And not enough states, much less Congressmen, are willing to lose that much power.

    6. Re:Why do you allow this travesty? by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

      Exactly, these things should be broken down into essential parts and voted upon individually. Like *nix do one thing and do it well.

    7. Re:Why do you allow this travesty? by lgw · · Score: 1

      If you want rules like one-topic-per-bill, or line item veto, then it has to be a Constitutional Amendment. And not enough states, much less Congressmen, are willing to lose that much power.

      The line-item veto gives an insane amount of power to the president's party. Think about how it can be gamed. Imagine this had gone a better way, and CISA was tacked on, then the GOP (this is imaginary) had further amended it to make CISA less crazy and that bill passed. Obama could then line-item veto the specific fixes to CISA leaving the original as the bill, because of the way bills evolve as a series of amendments amending amendments.

      One topic per bill is what we need especially for budget bills. Budget bills should contain only budget items!

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    8. Re:Why do you allow this travesty? by penguinoid · · Score: 2

      They allow it so that they can feign incompetence and that they were "forced" or "tricked" into passing the unpopular law that they've been itching to pass.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    9. Re:Why do you allow this travesty? by davidshewitt · · Score: 1

      There should be a constitutional amendment against it.

    10. Re:Why do you allow this travesty? by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      Well, if you combine this bill with the current preference for anyone on the No-Fly list being denied their 2nd Amendment Rights, that may be sooner than you think. Fairly soon, everyone will be on the list, and surveillance will be everywhere...so we'll end up like Britain.

    11. Re:Why do you allow this travesty? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      What the fuck is wrong with having the bill, and amendments to the bill.

      Vote on the amendments first - e.g. 'motion to strike CISA from this bill'
      Then vote on the amended bill.

      That's how it works in the UK, and it does work. Sure, bad laws get passed, but even worse laws get amended.

  5. Personal information is removed - read page 1740 by VikingNation · · Score: 2

    The act clearly states on page 1740 that personal information needs to be removed from data that is shared. The act also states that any violation of this will require notification of the person if this is not followed. The act also states that privacy and civil liberties factors are included. Before people need to read the and attempt to understand before jumping to conclusions.

  6. Yay for big government by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    These all-in-one compromise bills are what it's best at. The people get the short straw every time. They pay for their own enslavement.

  7. Don't buy USA, Don't use USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So basically any private data can be *sold* to NSA etc. for political, commercial and 'terrorist' surveillance as long as the company self declares it 'for cyber attack analysis'.

    Ask yourselve a simple question, why would a vague minor 'cyber threat' data exchange get pushed through in a budget measure if it was so innocuous? Obviously it was what we thought it was, a cover to legalize all the bulk mass warrantless surveillance shit that is still going on.

    And I say 'Sold', because several companies lobied for it, which suggest to me they've been promised money in exchange for the data. A hidden subsidy into US corps to buy their complicity in the surveillance.

    And the solution? Well don't buy USA made kit. It kinda sucks and don't use USA services where possible. Americans don't have a lot of choice, but the rest of the world has.

    In other news, we find out that UK has its own version of 'Parallel Construction', MI5 GCHQ not only spied on brits they briefed police in secret to arrest people and fake evidence trails. Now we know why they said "we briefed the police if people were innocent to let them go"... to explain all the meetings between spooks and police!

    1. Re:Don't buy USA, Don't use USA by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Nations will just do more in house, protect their own nations networks, tack on national interest clauses when offering once global tenders.
      Having all data hosted in another nation that shares data with another gov in direct competition by default is not best practice.
      Domestic brands and local staff will then get the wealth of their own nations spending regardless of staff skill, cpu costs, processing power, cooling costs.
      Any "cloud" product is now a huge security risk for any other nation's data sets.
      A rediscovery of halls full of loud, hot, slow secure servers at a local level in a lot of nations with lots of cleared staff to tend the slower equipment :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  8. Thank you for including the link to the Bill by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    Many eyes!!!

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  9. yes, the bill is unneeded but not THAT bad. Unless by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Indeed, I wouldn't have voted for CISA, threat information is -already- shared without the immunity of CISA, so it's not needed. But it's also not that bad, if implemented as written. There are a few major companies that provide security services to other companies. Each has thousands of clients, and they already pool the relevant data to see trends.

    Although the new law probably is not required, it also doesn't actually much more than what already happens, and should be happening. It's not that bad, assuming the feds don't stretch the meaning of the words beyond what it's trying to say. The wording could certainly be improved to a) limit the information shared with the government specifically (the security companies aren't interested in your personal identity, political beliefs, etc. The IRS clearly is.) Also b) be very clear it doesn't cover any use of the information for marketing or other purposes. The security people are interested in one thing, keeping users safe. We're not looking to see who bought sex toys, we're wanting to ensure that whatever is purchased with your credit card is actually purchased by the cardholder, not by a Russian carding ring.

  10. Read Uk Spooks admissions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's like the 'meta data is anonymous' claim, its false. There is no way to strip user info from that data, as AOL found when they released their user searches. But in this case its simply cover. Each record is individual and has an id in it to make it a trivial cross join to pull up the details.

    Read the admission from the UK spooks, on their bulk anonymous surveillance, this is much closer to the truth of the situation:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/16/big_brother_born_ntac_gchq_mi5_mass_surveillance_data_slurpingIntelligence agency staff have stated:

    "These datasets vary in size from hundreds to millions of records. Where possible, Bulk Personal Datasets may be linked together so that analysts can quickly find all the information linked to a selector", such as a telephone number or search query. The information retrieved "may include, but is not limited to, personal information such as an individualâ(TM)s religion, racial or ethnic origin, political views, ... medical condition, sexual orientation, or any legally privileged, journalistic or otherwise confidential information."

  11. Re:Personal information is removed - read page 174 by tlambert · · Score: 2

    The act clearly states on page 1740 that personal information needs to be removed from data that is shared. The act also states that any violation of this will require notification of the person if this is not followed.

    Only information which is (A) personally identifiable, AND (B) not relevant to the investigation. Guess who decides relevance?

    Meanwhile, we also know for a fact that it's rather easy to mine personal identifications out of aggregate "depersonalized" data, since there's a story on Slashdot every couple of weeks where someone has done it in order to get their Masters degree.

  12. Re:Guys - chill by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 2

    So far it appears that personal information will not be strippedout andthereis immunity for any collateral damage the passing of the PI may be responsible for and further useage of the PI for any reason (criminal investigation) by the receiving party is fair game even if unrelated to the original intent or if the PI was included by mistake or whatever. Gleaned my info from techdirt, so you may want to double check it.

  13. My Senator voted against it! by reboot246 · · Score: 1

    In fact, both of my Senators, Sessions and Shelby, AND my Representative voted against. I don't think the CISA part of it was the reason they did, though. They're as much in favor of big government surveillance as most Congresscritters.

    We live in strange times when Republican Senators from Alabama and Bernie Sanders vote the same on anything, albeit for different reasons.

  14. Welcome to the USA! by Chas · · Score: 2

    Land of the free-ish.
    Home of the "fuck you peon scum!"

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  15. relevant mentions of PI in bill ( Post 1 of ?) by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

    Cut and paste line numbers (unfortunately) included.

    1740 section E: . .. include procedures that require a Fed-5
    eral entity, prior to the sharing of a cyber 6
    threat indicatorâ" 7
    (i) to review such cyber threat indi-8
    cator to assess whether such cyber threat 9
    indicator contains any information not di-10
    rectly related to a cybersecurity threat that 11
    such Federal entity knows at the time of 12
    sharing to be personal information of a 13
    specific individual or information that 14
    identifies a specific individual and remove 15
    such information; or 16
    (ii) to implement and utilize a tech-17
    nical capability configured to remove any 18
    information not directly related to a 19
    cybersecurity threat that the Federal entity 20
    knows at the time of sharing to be per-21
    sonal information of a specific individual or 22
    information that identifies a specific indi-23
    vidual; and 24
    (F) include procedures for notifying, in a 1
    timely manner, any United States person whose 2
    personal information is known or determined to 3
    have been shared by a Federal entity in viola-4
    tion of this title.

    1. Re: relevant mentions of PI in bill ( Post 1 of ?) by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

      Yeah they hae that already. And all that info you cite would have to have been captured as a result of some cybersecurity threat. So how would that go down? You included all that info as data in a DDOS campaign against someone?

      I am not arguing, I am asking.

  16. Re:relevant mentions of PI in bill ( Post 2 of ?) by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

    Section 1741 F:

    (F) include procedures for notifying, in a timely manner, any United States person whose
    personal information is known or determined to have been shared by a Federal entity in viola-
    tion of this title.

  17. Re:relevant mentions of PI in bill ( Post 3 of ?) by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

    1746 (2)
    REMOVAL OF CERTAIN PERSONAL INFORMA-9
    TION.â"A non-Federal entity sharing a cyber threat 10
    indicator pursuant to this title shall, prior to such 11
    sharingâ" 12
    (A) review such cyber threat indicator to 13
    assess whether such cyber threat indicator con-14
    tains any information not directly related to a 15
    cybersecurity threat that the non-Federal entity 16
    knows at the time of sharing to be personal in-17
    formation of a specific individual or information 18
    that identifies a specific individual and remove 19
    such information; or 20
    (B) implement and utilize a technical capa-21
    bility configured to remove any information not 22
    directly related to a cybersecurity threat that 23
    the non-Federal entity knows at the time of 24
    sharing to be personal information of a specific 25
    individual or information that identifies a spe-1
    cific individual.

  18. Re:relevant mentions of PI in bill ( Post 3 of ?) by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

    Section 1754:
    (A) shall include guidance on the fol-1
    lowing: 2
    (i) Identification of types of informa-3
    tion that would qualify as a cyber threat 4
    indicator under this title that would be un-5
    likely to include information thatâ" 6
    (I) is not directly related to a 7
    cybersecurity threat; and 8
    (II) is personal information of a 9
    specific individual or information that 10
    identifies a specific individual. 11
    (ii) Identification of types of informa-12
    tion protected under otherwise applicable 13
    privacy laws that are unlikely to be directly 14
    related to a cybersecurity threat. 15
    (iii) Such other matters as the Attor-16
    ney General and the Secretary of Home-17
    land Security consider appropriate for enti-18
    ties sharing cyber threat indicators with 19
    Federal entities under this title.

  19. Re:relevant mentions of PI in bill ( Post 4 of ?) by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

    1756 (3) (longish one)
    consistent with the 12
    need to protect information systems from 13
    cybersecurity threats and mitigate cybersecurity 14
    threatsâ" 15
    (A) limit the effect on privacy and civil lib-16
    erties of activities by the Federal Government 17
    under this title; 18
    (B) limit the receipt, retention, use, and 19
    dissemination of cyber threat indicators con-20
    taining personal information of specific individ-21
    uals or information that identifies specific indi-22
    viduals, including by establishingâ" 23
    (i) a process for the timely destruction 24
    of such information that is known not to 25
    December 16, 2015 (1:04 a.m.)
    U:\2016REPT\OMNI\FinalOmni\CPRT-114-HPRT-RU00-SAHR2029-AMNT1.xml
    1757
    be directly related to uses authorized under 1
    this title; and 2
    (ii) specific limitations on the length 3
    of any period in which a cyber threat indi-4
    cator may be retained; 5
    (C) include requirements to safeguard 6
    cyber threat indicators containing personal in-7
    formation of specific individuals or information 8
    that identifies specific individuals from unau-9
    thorized access or acquisition, including appro-10
    priate sanctions for activities by officers, em-11
    ployees, or agents of the Federal Government in 12
    contravention of such guidelines; 13
    (D) consistent with this title, any other ap-14
    plicable provisions of law, and the fair informa-15
    tion practice principles set forth in appendix A 16
    of the document entitled ââNational Strategy for 17
    Trusted Identities in Cyberspaceâ(TM)â(TM) and pub-18
    lished by the President in April 2011, govern 19
    the retention, use, and dissemination by the 20
    Federal Government of cyber threat indicators 21
    shared with the Federal Government under this 22
    title, including the extent, if any, to which such 23
    cyber threat indicators may be used by the Fed-24
    eral Government; 25
    December 16, 2015 (1:04 a.m.)
    U:\2016REPT\OMNI\FinalOmni\CPRT-114-HPRT-RU00-SAHR2029-AMNT1.xml
    1758
    (E) include procedures for notifying enti-1
    ties and Federal entities if information received 2
    pursuant to this section is known or determined 3
    by a Federal entity receiving such information 4
    not to constitute a cyber threat indicator; 5
    (F) protect the confidentiality of cyber 6
    threat indicators containing personal informa-7
    tion of specific individuals or information that 8
    identifies specific individuals to the greatest ex-9
    tent practicable and require recipients to be in-10
    formed that such indicators may only be used 11
    for purposes authorized under this title; and 12
    (G) include steps that may be needed so 13
    that dissemination of cyber threat indicators is 14
    consistent with the protection of classified and 15
    other sensitive national security information.

  20. Getting blocked by /. now by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

    1768 c (ii)

      in a manner that protects from 1
    unauthorized use or disclosure any cyber 2
    threat indicators that may containâ" 3
    (I) personal information of a spe-4
    cific individual; or 5
    (II) information that identifies a 6
    specific individual; and 7
    (iii) in a manner that protects the 8
    confidentiality of cyber threat indicators 9
    containingâ" 10
    (I) personal information of a spe-11
    cific individual; or 12
    (II) information that identifies a 13
    specific individual.

  21. I need the problem explained to me by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

    OK so there are a few more mentions of PI in the bill reagarding he govt's duty to report to the public the number of times cyberthreat info was shared and how many times PI was shared but it doens't seem to be the privacy disaster it's being made out to be by some. Maybe I need the bill explained to me by someone who understands its implications better.

  22. Re:Personal information is removed - read page 174 by KGIII · · Score: 1

    The night before my divorce was finalized, I had a bachelor party. It was huge and I was very drunk. They tell me that I had a good time.

    Not that this matters. I just figured I'd add it to the list of absurdities that are being posted in this thread. I don't get why people are spinning this as a good thing.

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  23. Re:Guys - chill by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    The majority of network break-ins are as result of companies or governments being asleep behind the wheel. There needs to be monitoring to find when break-ins happen.

    Companies and governments asleep behind the wheel will now wake up and monitor their systems to find when break-ins happen ...because CISA exists?

    I am waiting for a coherent example of who this helps or who in the past this would have helped. Which company has ever gotten in trouble for sharing in good faith information about threats they face with a government agency?

    When break-ins happen companies need to be able to share signatures to look for break-ins on other networks.

    What prevents people from sharing signatures today? Where are all of those lawsuits from use of existing managed security products?

    My guess is there will be procedures that state that personal information not relevant to the break-in will need to be removed or destroyed from the information that is shared.

    I vividly recall picking my nose watching c-span when amendment after amendment to clarify and correct these very issues were systematically defeated.

    There is shit for requirements of filtering information going into the government system. Once in the system filtering requirements (e.g. suggestions) apply only to propagation of information out of the government domain.

  24. I guess watching Star Wars was more important by zkiwi34 · · Score: 1

    To the president that is. That or he liked the whole package, considered it "a job well done."

    1. Re: I guess watching Star Wars was more important by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      Another stellar year for the Party of Purple (Blue + Red).

    2. Re: I guess watching Star Wars was more important by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

      Obama is a life-changing disappointment to me.

  25. Re:Personal information is removed - read page 174 by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    The act clearly states on page 1740 that personal information needs to be removed from data that is shared.

    You misunderstand the context. This is for sharing of data already in possession of the government with non government consumers. The point many people find objectionable /w CISA is summary transport of their data to the government with no legal recourse... This does not address that. It only addresses retransmission outside of the government domain.

    act also states that any violation of this will require notification of the person if this is not followed.

    You mean this:

    "any United States person whose personal information is known or determined to have been shared by a Federal entity"

    This is a continuation of the same misunderstanding above. What matters is the information flowing **INTO** the government.

    The act also states that privacy and civil liberties factors are included.

    The entire point of the bill is wholesale bulk collection without legal recourse. Nobody gets in trouble for sharing data about actual threats with the government.

    Before people need to read the and attempt to understand before jumping to conclusions.

    Good advice.

  26. Re:They have spoken. by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

    No one of any intelligence already does not "trust" the cloud.

    I mean, who trusts their data to a machine that they do not have physical access to, but someone of unknown constitution does? That's like hacker 101.

  27. Re:Personal information is removed - read page 174 by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

    Exactly. I mean, we are demonstrably well past that point. This is more of a question of whether or not you get a reach-around with that mandatory cavity search you're receiving...or, well, whether they use regular lube, or the kind with mint in it (tingles).

  28. Re: Personal information is removed - read page 17 by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

    Whereas I jump to a somewhat similar, but different conclusion: the population is finally apathetic enough about its own existence that we can begin double-blind human testing.

  29. Re:Personal information is removed - read page 174 by KGIII · · Score: 1

    If you scroll up the thread there are a few posts saying that this law is a good law, that it is a long time coming, and things of that nature. In other words, people spinning it as a good thing. It was not in reference to you, hopefully you didn't think it was. If it were in reference to you, I'd have just responded to you. ;-)

    But no, there's a few posts where people seem to think this is a good thing. That it is a law that we should have. I have taken a gander at the text and some other information (linked from the article - I cheated and looked earlier) and I'm not really seeing why this is a requirement. If it's for prosecution then the government gets to get a warrant or the company can already turn it over if they want. They're already able to share data, pretty much without restriction, among themselves with US laws.

    Basically, it looks like it does nothing but add complexity with no real oversight and no real benefit that we'd not already have except maybe some benefit of being given notice and that looks to have a whole host of exclusions but my legalese isn't as refined as it once was.

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  30. Re:Guys - chill by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    Re "procedures that state that personal information not relevant to the break-in will need to be removed or destroyed from the information that is shared."
    "Senate Rejects All CISA Amendments Designed To Protect Privacy, Reiterating That It's A Surveillance Bill" (2015/10/27)
    https://www.techdirt.com/artic...
    "removal of personal information"
    "removed FOIA exemptions"
    ""tightened" the definition of cybersecurity threats"
    "more difficult for Congress to learn whether or not CISA is being used for domestic surveillance"
    All the privacy protection and time limitations laws got removed early on. Its a US gov working with the US private sector free for all. Collect it all, keep it all and presented to nice new gov portals. No real reasons needed, no court oversight, no questions back to the private sector, no questions about what the gov and mil will do with the data. Just a huge flow from the US private sector for the US gov to keep and sort.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  31. Re:Personal information is removed - read page 174 by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    All the privacy protections got removed. Sharing of all data back with the US gov is the entire point. What use is a US gov portal deep into the US private sector with data missing, logs altered, randomized... timestamps or ip's removed or text strings redacted ?
    A protection might stay in place not to leak, talk about, keep in plain text, the data to a 3rd party and store in a correct way until the US gov needs the data.
    ie the data is kept safe for the US gov and not talked about or findable in any way online by a 3rd party.
    Having the US gov get the data and only the US gov is not a privacy protection its just a security clause to ensure "only" the US gov gets the personal domestic information.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  32. Introduce a bill repealing CISA by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

    Ron Wyden should then introduce a bill that repeals CISA...or hope that the Italian lock maker intervenes due to trademark infraction.