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The Reason a Surface Phone Won't Fix Microsoft's Mobile Problem (windows10update.com)
Ammalgam writes: Microsoft's CMO recently admitted that Microsoft was behind in the mobile arena and needed time to build a competitive phone. In the Windows community however, some feel that the Windows Phone platform is out of time. On Windows10Update.com, the author discusses some of the reasons why a "Surface Phone" might not be enough to fundamentally change public perception about Microsoft mobile phones.
What is a "Surface Phone", and how is it different from a "Window 10 Phone", other than the name?
The only reason that the Surface tablets are getting any traction at all, is because they can run native x64 Windows apps. When they tried an ARM version, it failed so badly that Microsoft ended up writing off almost a billion dollars of inventory that nobody would buy, even at loss-leader pricing.
Almost nobody* wants a phone that can run x64 Windows apps, so the same trick is unlikely to work in that space.
* I said almost nobody, because immediately below this comment will be a reply from some corner case or another where someone will want that, but they will be a very small exception to my statement. The massive majority of the market will not want such a product, and will happily continue buying Android or iOS for the foreseeable future.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
The tile interface was fine for tablets, even "cool". However, it's crappy for a smart-phone. Too small a tile and your finger can't properly select it, and too big a tile and it wastes precious screen-space, which is limited on smart-phones.
But even if one did find it "cool" for cool's sake, despite fingering issues, Windows Phone simply doesn't have enough apps for it. They are probably hoping that businesses will use it because it's more compatible with the "MS-Office Cloud". But that market isn't big enough to encourage developers to target Windows Phones, meaning Windows Phones can only do Microsoft stuff. And if they don't make their Office Cloud mobile apps compatible with Android and IOS, then other cloud service providers will eat into their market. But if they do make it sufficiently compatible, they ruin the reason to buy a Windows Phone. Maybe they can somehow find a niche, but it looks like a long-shot.
The ONLY reason anybody wants Microsoft is compatibility with or running their desktop-based stuff.
You hit the nail on the head - it's all about the app ecosystem. What killer Windows phone apps ever made any waves? None. Even BlackBerry got the message about Android apps though far too late to save them. If the developers aren't there, the apps won't be there and the customers won't use your platform.
As long as it comes with a kickstand, I'll buy it.
It's because every two years they decide that the current platform isn't doing well enough and they abandon it.
So eventually people recognize that microsoft won't support them for any significant amount of time.
You might say: "but samsung doesn't update phones after 2 years either."
However, android actually has an established user base with many apps available. (fuck I hate the word app)
So they can get away with that for now.
The OS isn't the problem, Windows 10 is all very well and good for a Windows OS, and on mobile as an OS it's still easier to use than iOS or Android. People don't give a shit about the OS as long as it's not frustrating.
Microsoft has failed because it's burned what few Windows Phone customers its had again and again and again so bad that there's no reason to stick with them. Windows Phone 7? Not upradgeable to 8. Buy a Windows Phone 8? Well the only new phone 3 years later is on a different carrier cause fuck you. Combined with Microsoft's horrid PR it's no wonder they'll never get any traction in mobile. Just look at how many people sit there and complain about Microsoft trying to give them a free upgrade to Windows 10. It's just the best of Win 7 and 8, except it boots faster, yet somehow people are turned off because MS has a PR department run by satanic monkeys.
With the two combined they're not going anywhere, and it is absolutely NOT because the OS is a turn off in any way.
These days I'm supposed to buy 3 computers, phone, tablet, and laptop... That's 3+ CPU, GPU and memory, if phones can perform like my laptop, I would buy docking devices for my phone including VR. Sure it's been tried before, but lots of things concepts, including the smart phone don't explode until the tech reaches that magical point
I was replacing an iPhone, and I liked the size, the screen and the camera.
I still like all those features, but I can't wait until the contract is up so I can get whatever the latest and biggest Nexus phone is at that time.
It works great, but it's like a two-year forced vacation from downloading apps. It doesn't have SiriusXM or Square apps, for FSM's sake... if I'd known those would never arrive, I'd have passed on the experience.
On topic with the last post on the front page, I think Microsoft's best move is to push in the same direction as Mozilla: web apps that are as good as native apps. Then your platform isn't the important thing.
Then why choose Windows (on your phone)? I think corporate workers would love for their work PC to just be the phone in their pocket. It should be x86-64 and run full-blown desktop application when a monitor, pointer and keyboard are attached. The latest Windows 10 Mobile is close, but it can't run any old x86 code. If my work PC was a Windows phone, I'd definitely find it easier to move in that direction in my personal life.
Web apps for the future, the occasional local app, and make the whole history of Windows on x86 a non-replicable asset for your platform.
Can I pay extra for a pen that attaches to the outside of it?
Can I get pissed when the desktop app has menu itms so damn small I can't read what the hell they say?
Can I try to run Flash and Adobe reader on it for Internet Explorer 11?
Can I have Antivirus software that makes it slow?
Can I get a real slow CPU, like Intel Atom?
Can I get real slow RAM?
Can I get a real slow SSD on that SOC?
Can I get buggy firmware that 5,000 other users have that nobody will fix?
Can I get a battery that lasts as long as my Windows laptop, i.e. 4 hours?
Thank you Microsoft I have my dream phone that has the same problems my awesome desktop has!
At a corporate level, the ability for IT admins to manage everything from AD is killer. For consumers, I suspect Microsoft will finally figure out how to extend XBox games to phones, build some killer ecosystem around major titles like Halo and Minecraft, and go to the bank.
"Offer me apps."
"Yes!"
"Accessories, too, promise me that."
"All that I have and more. Please..."
"Offer me everything I ask for."
"Anything you want..."
*stab*
"I want MeeGo back, you son of a bitch!"
Circumcision is child abuse.
I never really had the use for an tablet and hence don't own one, except a old B&W NOOK ebook ready with Android.
Now, what I would really like is to use
1. [Preferably] Ubuntu on a tablet to run wine and use RosettaStone for language learning
2. Use Windows to run Rosetta Stone.
This may be an option in the future: https://www.codeweavers.com/po...
But currently, what are the options for CHEAP x64 tablets?
I wish I could buy the cheap AMAZON Fire but RosettaStone won't run on it. The Web Version (Android/iOS) does not compare to the computer version.
Any suggestions highly appreciated. I am willing to root the device.
All they need are these features:
A phone that can be fully-managed with Group Policy/Active Directory
A phone that has a fully-functional Outlook client, with ALL the features of desktop Outlook that are practical to cram into a phone
That's IT. Most businesses would jump at the chance for those. Mobile security is a big issue, and there *still* isn't a truly good Exchange client for any phone (though some are close).
The fact that MS hasn't realized this stuff is mystifying. What are they thinking?
All they need are these features:
A phone that can be fully-managed with Group Policy/Active Directory
A phone that has a fully-functional Outlook client, with ALL the features of desktop Outlook that are practical to cram into a phone
That's IT. Most businesses would jump at the chance for those. Mobile security is a big issue, and there *still* isn't a truly good Exchange client for any phone (though some are close).
The fact that MS hasn't realized this stuff is mystifying. What are they thinking?
There's a lot more to the "smartphone market" than business features. I notice nothing on your list that would make the average consumer excited.
Once upon a time BlackBerry ruled business smartphones. Why did that end? Because people wanted to be able to use their non-work smartphone as their work phone. So the phone that was king for consumers (the iPhone) started to displace the Blackberry.
If Microsoft wants to take over the smartphone market, they first have to make a dent in the hearts of the non-business market.
I personally love the UI on my 950, it's just about everything else.
Windows 7 is good for the desktop. Other Microsoft software generally has better options or does okay.
I never want Microsoft software on my phone.
Since when in the last 10 years has windows mobile phones ever been competitive?
All they need are these features:
All they need? Really? Nothing else?
Most businesses would jump at the chance for those.
I wanna see a business jump, no really, please show me
I take many of my tech queues from my tech friends. I have seen exactly zero microsoft mobile devices in their hands. Zero, not few, not one, but zero. I even see the occasional blackberry simply because they just don't care and their company gave it to them. Quite simply it is not what the cool kids are using.
What I do see are about half Windows machines because that is what they use at work, a huge number of Macs because of their Unix flavour, and a goodly number of Linux based laptops. For mobile I see iPhones, Androids, and interesting things like the Oneplus.
Going back to the windows machines I pretty much only see Windows 7.
The next part is how cool is what they are working on; if it is AI, Robotics, or something hardcore then Linux, BSD, and Apple are the only products used To boil this down, Microsoft is not what the cool kids want to use.
Don't run Rosetta stone. It's shit. And wine to run it ? Lol.
Microsoft got exceptionally lucky early on and bullied its way with competitors on the old platform. Their product was always inferior, but their marketing was pathological and appealed to purchasing managers greed instinct. Fast forward. Phones aren't purchased in bulk by purchasing agents, they are purchased individually by end users, and the crap they buy is the crap they end up with. And if its crap, then once the phone is no longer new and not performing, they seek alternatives. Its not like their boss is yelling at them and they have to use crap. So microsoft isn't winning in the phone space. Microsoft wants to apply some kind of lock-in on customers. Given their methods, they would prevent any kind of connection between phones and the PC, but its not like that. Whenever they try to lock out competitors phones on the PC end, people dump their PCs. If they really need a computer, they find a solution (gasp) using a competitors product that does work. Their software is not (and never has been) cross platform. Their PC software doesn't work on any phone. Not just the operating system, but the applications too. Lately, Nokia has announced products running Android (you can't blame them, they have to sell something).
I'd say M$ Missed the phone bus, had they come up with something good in the first place, years ago, they might have had a chance but they keep using a bandaid on a chainsaw wound!
You might start your investigation here: Price Comparison Site. I bet there's a similar site designed for your market/country.
Good luck courting the young and impressionable who have yet to experience the joy of buying a boot-loader locked MS product that stops receiving updates faster than a debutante drops her nickers on prom night. The rest of us want none of your latest batch of snake oil.
Microsoft doesn't need to take over the smartphone market, they just need not become irrelevant. Smartphones, tablets, and phablets are becoming serious contenders in roles where laptops used to reign unchallenged. If Microsoft doesn't at least have a meaningful presence in that space they lose a generation of users.
Targeting the non-business markets is a losing proposition for Microsoft. Apple could take that path because they were able to leverage their significant position in the PMP space. Consumers could replace their RAZR and iPod nano with an iPhone. It wasn't until BYOD policies allowed iPhones that they really got business friendly features.
Microsoft isn't in that sort of position. They've lost the hearts of the non-business market. It's expensive to chase the high end consumer market. Apple makes most of the money and a handful of others move a lot of units. Microsoft faces a losing battle competing there.
Competing in the business market they could have strong offerings where the competition is weak. With AD and Exchange/Outlook functionality they could plug right into existing infrastructure with no impedance mismatch. The Lumia line isn't good competition in the consumer space but could look good to businesses.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Ah yes, I had this stuff once: I installed Exchange support on my old Symbian phone, and the next thing I knew was I had to hack my way in my own phone to remove the option for the company IT department to reformat my phone. Never again on my private device. If the company wants those rights they'll have to provide me the phone too. I now run an Android app that parses outlook webmail and has no entrance for sneaky admins.
Why? I can use outlook mail on my Android device very well, and I'm sure it is also possible on iOS. MS even writes its own Outlook app for these. That it is also possible on windows phone is not a unique feature of windows phone.
Because alternatives exist in app form.
Policies are set on my Android device by a third party program that are enforced by banning the logon of the device on our corporate network if the program doesn't exist. A fully functional (or at least sufficiently functional) outlook client exists in the form of another 3rd party program that provides access to push emails, calender, tasks, etc
If I don't have a sufficient password set to unlock my phone, it doesn't work. If I don't have disk encryption on it doesn't work. If it's rooted it doesn't work. If certain software is present it doesn't work, and all these policies are managed centrally.
So what would your solution bring to the table that the above doesn't? And why would incorporating them into the OS suddenly magically make it a killer device which will take over the smartphone market?
There's a lot more to the "smartphone market" than business features. I notice nothing on your list that would make the average consumer excited.
There was never anything in Windows Phone that would make the average consumer excited. WinCE phones were only ever popular with business, and only because of their relatively high level of integration. You could develop your own software with visual studio and deploy it to your devices without paying Microsoft for the privilege. That is the only reason statistically anyone (that is, above the level of noise) ever gave one tenth of one shit about a Windows phone.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If that locked down android device you describe is your property, you need a different employer. I would never tolerate that garbage on something I pay for. If it's theirs they can do whatever of course.
M$ is censoring it.
It only has "some compatibility" with Windows 10 apps.
It was what, $550? Ya way over my price target.
The release date caused me to not be able to wait for it.
To be frank, they have the concept right. They need a $400 phone with all the keyboard/mouse/screen dongles included. Then I don't need another laptop ever again.
What you're describing is a Lumia with Windows 10 for phones, managed by Intune.
And no, it's not what businesses want. Intune/SCCM is full of proprietary stuff, that doesn't stick to the diversity of a modern information system.
I run Rosetta Stone on an inexpensive Linx 8 tablet with Windows 10. Rosetta Stone wants you to load new languages from CD-ROM but obviously tablets don't have optical drive. You can get round that by plugging in a USB CD-ROM drive or creating an ISO on another computer. Apart from that everything works well. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Linx-i...
"Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace." V.Stone, Microsoft Corporation
Thanks.
How do you do this with the ISO? My windows experience seems like 1000 years old. At that time you could use CD ROM emulators.
How do you do this? Or is windows 10 able to access ISO files?
I just can't get past the Metro look. Maybe it's just me, but when I look at the screen all I see is squares, I have to examine each one to see what app it corresponds to. If I were colorblind, it would be even worse. With iOS or Android, I can glance at a screen full of icons and instantly find what I'm looking for, because the icons are much more distinct from each other. I find it very hard to believe MS did any usability testing and concluded they were giving users what they want.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
I can fix their problems and everyone else's easily: Shut the place down, fire everyone, sell off the assets, and issue an apology in every Human language for being such jerks in the first place. Microsoft is a Cancer that needs to be excised.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Google "mount iso windows 10" and all will be revealed to you my son. Go now, in peace.
> this is a great phone for a company to issue its employees. They are unlikely
> to use it for personal stuff, given its appstore limitations.
With features like that, who needs bugs? Sucks so much they will never use it for anything but work.
Yeah, go Microsoft. Go where Yahoo is going, buzzards that had their day and ride it out for decades at the expense of humanity.
Microsoft is irrelevant even with a 10-times-too-little, 10-years-too-late replacement for Ballmer. The hybrid Mobile/PC OS is DOA, just like Netscape 6.
When they skip versions you know they're dead.
Once I have a surface phone running full blown windows, I can have a dock and run my whole environment from one device.
I can add an app to the tablet of my choice so it can act as a monitor to my phone, or perhaps MS starts selling dumb screens that run the display wirelessly from a phone.
I can have a laptop that is just a screen and keyboard, no brains, that runs wirelessly from my phone. It is all on my phone. I have one device. In that world, Windows wins the same way it has won big in desktop and laptop world.