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North Korea Claims It Detonated Its First Hydrogen Bomb (nytimes.com)

HughPickens.com writes: North Korea announced it has detonated its first hydrogen bomb, dramatically escalating the nuclear challenge from one of the world's most isolated and dangerous states. "This is the self-defensive measure we have to take to defend our right to live in the face of the nuclear threats and blackmail by the United States and to guarantee the security of the Korean Peninsula," said a North Korean announcer on the state-run network. "With this hydrogen bomb test, we have joined the major nuclear powers." The North's announcement came about an hour after detection devices around the world had picked up a 5.1 seismic event that South Korea said was 30 miles from the Punggye-ri site where the North has conducted nuclear tests in the past.

"North Korea's fourth test — in the context of repeated statements by U.S., Chinese, and South Korean leaders — throws down the gauntlet to the international community to go beyond paper resolutions and find a way to impose real costs on North Korea for pursuing this course of action," says Scott Snyder, a Korea expert at the Council on Foreign Relations. According to the NY Times, the test is bound to figure in the American presidential campaign, where several candidates have already cited the North's nuclear experimentation as evidence of American weakness — though they have not prescribed alternative strategies for choking off the program. The United States did not develop its first thermonuclear weapons — commonly known as hydrogen bombs — until 1952, seven years after the first and only use of nuclear weapons in wartime.

412 comments

  1. Meh. by msauve · · Score: 5, Funny

    They popped a hydrogen filled balloon with a lit cigarette and declared success.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Koreans are human too but the Moon belongs to Nixon.

    2. Re:Meh. by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      I'd like to see the balloon big enough to cause a 5.1 earthquake!

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    3. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get over it already.

    4. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to see the hydrogen bomb small enough to cause a 5.1 earthquake, which is the same magnitude as their 2013 fission bomb test...

    5. Re:Meh. by msauve · · Score: 1

      The North Korean test produced results similar in size to a past test they did of a fission bomb. Other than their claims, which have been known to be exaggerated (unicorns, anyone?) there's nothing to indicate that the latest was in fact a thermonuclear bomb.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    6. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Past test where people such as you claimed they could not do it again.

    7. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But a scientific breakthrough, they did it with cold fusion.

    8. Re:Meh. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'd like to see the hydrogen bomb small enough to cause a 5.1 earthquake

      H-bombs can be designed with small yields. It is basically just a fission core with a lithium deuteride booster. You can make the booster any size you want just by putting in more LiD, which is non-radioactive, non-toxic, and requires no special shielding or handling. Early American designs held the LiD in place with Styrofoam. The hard part is building the fission core, which NK has already done in the past. Going from fission bombs to fusion bombs is not difficult, and every country that has attempted it has succeeded on the first try.

    9. Re:Meh. by DarkOx · · Score: 1, Troll

      There also is not a lot of reason for doubt. Moving for fission to fusion is a big technological leap but DPRK has from Iran.

      Which is another reason why Obama's deal is deeply stupid. He correctly asserts they were month away from a working bomb, and now if the deal holds (I think it will for a time but not the whole time) they are 15 years out. They are getting a bomb either way sure. What is missed is they continue to work with DPRK, so in the mean time:

      1) Iranian nuclear engineers gain experience
      2) Iran gets the benefit of data from live tests that DPRK will share with them
      3) Iran gets access to the economic benefits western trade and access to all those frozen assets in the deal for the near term
      4) (Possibly) DRPK is a short term source for enriched materials when Iran exists the deal

      So basically the Iranians are doing their home work and rather than a few months from now being able to make a show of setting off a simple gun type fission devices, they are laying the ground work to be ready to leap directly to a more or less modern fusion design that will ready to be or already miniaturized and weaponized. They will either wait out the 15 years or move at some unknown and difficult to predict time before that.

      We were better positioned to impede the nuclear ambitions of Iran and DPRK before the deal. The fact that they were close to getting a lump of metal on platform somewhere to go 'boom' was never relevant. The only nukes that matter or warheads of sufficient yield, reliability, that are also of small enough size to be carried on a missile. Until the reach that state they are as a sack of charcoal is to gunpowder.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    10. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      5.1 earthquake?

      That's just fatass Kim Jung Un stepping out of bed in the morning (next to a more beautiful chick than you'll ever lay. How fucked up the world is)

    11. Re:Meh. by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

      They popped a hydrogen filled balloon with a lit cigarette and declared success.

      Must have been quite a balloon to register 5.1 on the Richter scale !

    12. Re:Meh. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I've noticed that the western media goes out of its way to portray North Korea as being a backwards country. For example, national TV is broadcast in high quality wide-screen PAL on the ground and 1080i via satellite. Japanese TV uses a pristine copy of the 1080i broadcast, but the western media like the BBC uses a low quality cropped to 4:3 version.

      I'd love to know why this is. It's very misleading. North Korea has access to modern tech, and a hydrogen bomb is well within their means. The testing is just for show really, they will have done most of the work via computer modeling.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:Meh. by tibit · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I heard of an interesting possibility offered by a BBC analyst today: Of course this could all be posturing with full knowledge of the leadership. But perhaps the development facility is lying to the leadership about it. The leadership is completely crazy and demands things that might not be possible in their circumstances. The bomb makers might have detonated another fission device to buy more time, or simply to keep the disconnected-from-reality leadership placated.

      Going further along this line of thinking: Perhaps the atomic weapon program people are sabotaging their own program. Better this than the crazy leadership bombing Japan or South Korea on a whim. They probably have the talent needed to develop a hydrogen bomb, but these people aren't stupid gullible fools anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if they said "fuck that" and only pretend to have a hydrogen bomb.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    14. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I thought it was only mission complete after raping the prisoners at Abu Graib

      But you are perfectly okay with Arab men raping, beating and killing Arab women as long as they have a Berka on to hide the damage, pain and fear. Oh and their face. RIGHT? Right.

    15. Re:Meh. by bfpierce · · Score: 2

      It's not just the media itself, but the experts they hire and even people in high level positions of our own government don't seem to realize their government has the same computer technology and are in fact connected to the same internet we are.

      There's this belief that because the vast majority of their people are peasant farmers that somehow people in their government and science administration are completely inept.

    16. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      to portray North Korea as being a backwards country

      Because 99% of it is.

      For example, national TV is broadcast in high quality wide-screen PAL on the ground and 1080i via satellite

      Yes, and the less than 1% of the population who have a TV which can display it love the picture quality.

      I'd love to know why this is.

      Because there's only one "game" in the broadcast industry in their country, run by the government, and they get to use as much of the spectrum as they want for their TV.

      It's very misleading. North Korea has access to modern tech

      TV broadcasting and nukes, while both being "modern technology" are completely different kinds of technology. It's like saying "Well, they have indoor air conditioning, so they ought to be able to land a human on the Moon!"

    17. Re: Meh. by gsslay · · Score: 1

      Wow. Talk about false dichotomies.

    18. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sufficient yield, reliability, that are also of small enough size to be carried on a missile.

      Or they can put it in a driverless car.

    19. Re:Meh. by msauve · · Score: 0

      "There also is not a lot of reason for doubt."

      Come back when you're the head of an international commission tasked with figuring these things out.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    20. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Could be worse they could have put a person called Bush on a boat (no aircraft carriers) and delcared misson complete!

      Nah.

      Worst case would be some clown who had no idea what he was doing pulling the US out of Iraq and allowing Al Qaeda in Iraq to grow into an organization that could take over actual territory, say, maybe calling itself something like "The Islamic State", such that it would then have the resources to conduct terrorist attacks like bombing airliners and mass shootings in disparate places such as Paris and Southern California.

      That would be the worst possible outcome.

      Good thing nobody in power in the US is that fucking naive and stupid.

    21. Re:Meh. by crow_t_robot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The shootings in CA and Paris were really of 0 impact especially comparing it against something like 9/11 that happened on Bush's watch. The islamic state has absolutely no power outside of their tiny tribal areas and if you are afraid of them at all and you live in the US then you are a huge pussy.

    22. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We were better positioned to impede the nuclear ambitions of Iran and DPRK before the deal.
      How?

    23. Re:Meh. by pndiku · · Score: 1

      The North Korean test produced results similar in size to a past test they did of a fission bomb. Other than their claims, which have been known to be exaggerated (unicorns, anyone?) there's nothing to indicate that the latest was in fact a thermonuclear bomb.

      So what about the part where the supposed unicorn story was proved to be Western propaganda?

    24. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, that always amused me about the Cold War as well, The Russians are way behind and have laughable technology, um, but we must absolutely tremble in fear so give me your taxes!

    25. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just farted and got a 2.6

    26. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it was supposed to be an H bomb, then it didn't work as planned and the secondary fusion explosion did not happen.

    27. Re:Meh. by msauve · · Score: 1

      So, an English language press release from the KCNA, North Korea's state news agency, is now "western propaganda?"

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    28. Re:Meh. by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Actually no, not it's not. They don't have the technology to develop a H bomb nor did them test one. Thanks for playing...

    29. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Strawman arguments are lies.

    30. Re:Meh. by kheldan · · Score: 2

      Perhaps the atomic weapon program people are sabotaging their own program.

      You know, I'd like to believe that; I'd like to believe that anyone educated enough to design and construct such devices would be resistant to such insanity.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    31. Re:Meh. by chispito · · Score: 1

      I heard of an interesting possibility offered by a BBC analyst today: Of course this could all be posturing with full knowledge of the leadership. But perhaps the development facility is lying to the leadership about it. The leadership is completely crazy and demands things that might not be possible in their circumstances. The bomb makers might have detonated another fission device to buy more time, or simply to keep the disconnected-from-reality leadership placated.

      Going further along this line of thinking: Perhaps the atomic weapon program people are sabotaging their own program. Better this than the crazy leadership bombing Japan or South Korea on a whim. They probably have the talent needed to develop a hydrogen bomb, but these people aren't stupid gullible fools anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if they said "fuck that" and only pretend to have a hydrogen bomb.

      On the other hand, you might do a lot of things to provide for your family, especially given the alternative you see all around you.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    32. Re:Meh. by GrumpySteen · · Score: 5, Funny

      From the article:
      "an estimated explosive yield of six kilotons and a quake with a magnitude of 4.8 were detected Wednesday"

      Hmmm....

      One mole of Hydrogen will produce 241.8 kilojoules of energy when burned.

      A kiloton explosion releases 4.184*10^12 joules, so we're looking at 2.51*10^13 joules for this explosion. That would require 1.04*10^8 moles of hydrogen.

      A mole of hydrogen is 22.4 liters, so that gives us 2.3*10^14 liters of hydrogen. That means the balloon had to be 230 cubic kilometers and, when popped, it would have sucked up all the oxygen in a surrounding area of about 547 cubic kilometers.

      This tells us one absolutely undeniable fact; I'm really fucking bored.

    33. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, so false! We all know there is no rape in Saudi Arabia. If a man has sex with a woman he is not married to, she is guilty of a capital offense and must be stoned to death on the football fields, as it is spoken by the prophet. The man can join in the stoning and eat a nice lamp chop after.

    34. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is basically just a fission core with a lithium deuteride booster.

      Technically that's not a true hydrogen bomb but rather a "boosted" atomic bomb or a fission bomb that's augmented by the inclusion of some fusion materials. However, according to the late physicist Edward Teller, who co-invented the Teller–Ulam design used by all modern thermonuclear devices, these sorts of "boosted" atomic bombs were not true fusion weapons because there is an absolute limit to the power of any device NOT built according to the Teller-Ulam design. That's the key difference. A true Tellar-Ulam design fusion device can be made arbitrarily powerful such that there is no theoretical upper limit on yield device built using the Tellar-Ulam idea. For example, the Soviets detonated a 50 megaton device in 1961, the Tsar Bomba, built using a staged version of the Teller-Ulam design. It would be impossible for a regular "boosted" atomic bomb to achieve even a faction of that yield.

    35. Re:Meh. by Strider- · · Score: 2

      It is basically just a fission core with a lithium deuteride booster.

      Well, no, not really. A boosted weapon is vastly different than a true thermonuclear weapon. In a boosted weapon, you inject a small amount of Tritium into the Plutonium core. The fusion of the tritium causes a burst of fast neutrons, which in turn causes additional fission in the remaining Plutonium and/or Uranium tamper, significantly improving the efficiency of the weapon. This is significantly different than a thermonuclear weapon, which has distinct fission and fusion sections (which uses Lithium Deuteride, as you mentioned).

      However, there is a minimum size for a thermonuclear weapon; The fission part has to be powerful enough to create the conditions necessary for fusion, and to fission the Lithium into Tritium, then the Neutrons generated by the fusion will then generate additional fission in the remaining Plutonium (and Uranium). It's really doubtful that you could have a true thermonuclear explosion that only produced 5 to 6 kilotons; the fission-fusion-fission cycle just can't work at that low energy.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    36. Re:Meh. by Xest · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anyone who knows my history of posting on the whole Iran/nuclear topic knows that I'm about as far from an Iran apologist as you can get, but frankly your post is pretty much entirely bullshit.

      Nuclear technology transfer has been in the exact opposite direction, rather than Iran transferring knowledge and information to Iran, it is in fact North Korea that transferred to Iran (and it's close ally Syria).

      North Korea's nuclear programme stems back much further than both Iran and Syria, and in fact, Iran was still largely under Western influence long after North Korea had already decided to pursue the nuclear weapons route.

      The early North Korean weapons effort was largely kickstarted by the USSR under the form of an initially civilian effort and this gave North Korea the initial technology it needed to start refining Uranium (the same sort of enrichment technology that has been at the heart of the current Iranian nuclear drama). As such, North Korea was doing what Iran is being criticised for 40 years before Iran really started though North Korea never really got anywhere through that time until the 90s when it benefitted from the AQ Khan network. That is, it was our supposed ally (as fucking usual) Pakistan that traded nuclear weapon technology with North Korea and made them a nuclear weapon capable state.

      Whilst there has been ample evidence over the years that Iran has at least dabbled in pursuing nuclear weapons (though personally I think they did more than dabble) we don't necessarily know in much detail what shape that took. We do know however that when Syria's al-Kibar nuclear programme was unveiled by the fact Israel blew the fucking thing up, that it was basically an exact clone of North Korea's programme. Had Iran had it's own indigenous built programme with no outside influence, it would seem odd that Syria's programme looked like North Korea's, not Iran's, when Syria and Iran are far closer partners (to the extent that Iran is currently paying in the blood of it's special forces and top generals to prop up Assad right now).

      Which is why in all likelihood, there's little that North Korea could gain from Iran. North Korea's programme is decades ahead, and whilst Iran was also a beneficiary of the AQ Khan network it still lacked the actual experience and knowledge of enrichment that North Korea had.

      So the idea that Iran is somehow coaching the North Koreans makes absolutely no sense, NK's programme is a year short of 55 years in the making, whereas Iran's is sat at about 15 to 20 years at best, the bulk of which has been spent recreating that which NK already had been handed outright in the 1960s by the soviets.

      For all the criticism I've had of Iran over the years, I'm optimistic about the nuclear deal. The biggest problem I've had with Iran's nuclear programme is simply that it's completely blocked the IAEA from confirming that it isn't producing weapons by outright blocking access to key nuclear facilities, and as such this is why I believe that the only reason Iran would do this is because it did genuinely have something to hide - there's no point suffering crippling economic sanctions just to pretend you're trying to make nukes if you're not. If Iran is now willing to allow full and thorough inspections, then I suspect that's because it's now got nothing to hide any more because it genuinely has given up on it's pursuit of nuclear weapons.

      It's pretty clear that the path Ahmadinejad carved wasn't working for Iran, that Iran was getting weaker, poorer, and increasingly more isolated. The arab spring was the wake up call to Iran's elite that that path simply was not sustainable. Whilst I'm not particularly a fan of Rouhani, because he was still ultimately a vetted option and still under the thumb of Khamenei, he is at least reversing many of Ahmadinejad's bad ideas (like the pursuit of nuclear weapons) precisely because the alternative is collapse of the Iranian political system, and likely a Syria-esque civil war.

      That is why it's both nonsense to sug

    37. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buddy, nobody thinks that the Nuclear deal will stop Iran from getting a bomb. Especially the crafters of the deal.

      Geopolitically speaking, the deal is more about the acknowledgement and validation of Iran as a Nuclear power. It gives Iran's government political validation and more importantly it gives everyone assurance of dialog and information flow. The idea is we'l /get along/ better.

      All deals between countries are at best lip service. When the shoe drops everyone protects their own interests and ignores "agreements" there's no space cop or supernatural daddy to make everyone follow the "rules". These deals are how countries play nice and get along.

      The deal is important because, like it or not, Iran is going to be an an ally in the future. The Saud royal family may very well fall apart and that means there will be a clustefuck of never-before-seen chaos in the region. (Expect more of the executions and rhetoric we saw last week. They're distracting their population from the fact that the country's reserves will be empty in 8-14 months)

      We'll need all the help we can get and Iran is a key player and the defacto center of power for one of Islam's major sects.

    38. Re:Meh. by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Shootings in Paris and California had no impact? Are you serious?

      Yes, they killed fewer people than 9/11. That's actually pretty irrelevant. Pound for pound, they were probably more effective for the amount of resources and time they spent on them.

      The point of all three of those attacks was to show the impunity which terrorists could act with and to get us to do things to turn this into a religious war. In that sense, all three of those attacks had similar impact.

      I'm actually more concerned that a pair of otherwise normal-seeming individuals who are fully vetted before entering the country to come live and have a baby, suddenly just decide to leave their kid with their mom and go off and start shooting people. The 9/11 people were undercover to some degree, but their actions were that of a team made up of single men sent to take care of an operation.

      If random Muslims couples are going to just suddenly show up at work or in public and start shooting people, I'm a little more concerned about that becoming a trend than I ever was about 9/11. And if ISIS can weaponize those sorts of people, I am quite concerned about ISIS.

      I don't want to get drawn into the debate about Bush or Obama. Frankly, it's pretty clear that Bush made the big mistake of going into Iraq, and Obama made the mistakes of taking us out of Iraq, and completely messing up the Syrian situation. The correctness of being in Iraq or not is actually based on the situation at the time. We didn't have to get into Iraq, but once there, we should not have left until it was stable.

    39. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought it was only mission complete after raping the prisoners at Abu Graib

      But you are perfectly okay with Arab men raping, beating and killing Arab women as long as they have a Berka on to hide the damage, pain and fear. Oh and their face. RIGHT? Right.

      Different country, different custom. The world is not dominated by murricans. RIGHT? Right.

    40. Re:Meh. by ClickOnThis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Could be worse they could have put a person called Bush on a boat (no aircraft carriers) and delcared misson complete!

      Nah.

      Worst case would be some clown who had no idea what he was doing pulling the US out of Iraq and allowing Al Qaeda in Iraq to grow into an organization that could take over actual territory, say, maybe calling itself something like "The Islamic State", such that it would then have the resources to conduct terrorist attacks like bombing airliners and mass shootings in disparate places such as Paris and Southern California.

      That would be the worst possible outcome.

      Good thing nobody in power in the US is that fucking naive and stupid.

      Sadly, there was someone in power who was that stupid, and his name was George W. Bush. It was his administration that negotiated the exit-date with Iraq. Obama succeeded at getting a short extension, but ultimately his hands were tied.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    41. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... I'm actually more concerned that a pair of otherwise normal-seeming individuals who are fully vetted before entering the country ...

      Fully vetted?!?!?!

      BWAAA HAAA HAA!

      Sorry about that. It's hilarious because it's so pathetic.

      In Obama's DHS, we can't look at the social media postings of radical Islamic loons who want to come to the US.

      Like the ones Tashfeen Malik posted to her Facebook account...

      Fully vetted?

      Obama's fooled you.

    42. Re:Meh. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Um, did you forget that the Iraqi president gave the US no choice?

      I would say that one is on him, he forced the US out of Iraq. Neither Bush or Obama was able to convince him of how bad an idea that was.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    43. Re: Meh. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I don't know, his wife is ok looking, but not all that...

      https://www.google.com/search?...

      Her name is Ri (or Lee) Sol Ju.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    44. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The shootings in CA and Paris were really of 0 impact especially comparing it against something like 9/11 that happened on Bush's watch. The islamic state has absolutely no power outside of their tiny tribal areas and if you are afraid of them at all and you live in the US then you are a huge pussy.

      Two letter: J and V

      Who's the clown who said that?

    45. Re:Meh. by skaralic · · Score: 1

      Maybe we'll see three small nuclear tests, followed by three large nuclear tests and, again, three small ones...---...

    46. Re:Meh. by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Except, they really don't have access to modern military tech. They have access to tech that everyone else gets because it's not weaponized, like TV and broadcast capabilities.

      I personally know the principle behind and the general construction of a Teller-Ulam device, otherwise known as a thermonuclear warhead. Probably a significant portion of the readers of Slashdot do, or could find out very easily. What I cannot do is procure the materials, or tools, or the fabrication processes that make it possible to assemble one to the tolerances required to make it function properly. These are very specialized, easier to track, and not generally public knowledge to the level at which they could make a real go of it.

      In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if, given the fizzles that they have had, they simply handed the Wikipedia entries for these things to scientists and told them to build it. The tests really feel like someone actually tried to build the real thing, but could not get the right precision, fuel, or alloys to make it actually work.

      I agree that there is probably some propaganda angle in presenting NK as a backward country. Although, I think it is often both to demonize, but also to reassure the rest of the population that they aren't at the same level that we are in terms of weapons.

      That said, if left alone long enough, they'll probably eventually succeed by simple trial and error. Everything is eventual.

    47. Re:Meh. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should read the Gizmodo article before dismissing it?

      They go into the reason it is false; the "Unicorn Lair" used in that translation is a bad translation of Kiringul which is a historical city they are claiming to have identified the location of.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    48. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You convenient forget that assets were going to be unfrozen anyway since both of those assets where European banks which had already decided to move forward resuming relations with Iran so it didn't matter if the U.S. chose not to participuate. Either way Iran would benefit from the relationship with DPRK and either way billions of dollars in trade was going to resume. So rather than get nothing out of the deal it was negotiated to wait 15 years before developing a bomb. It makes no sense not to take the deal in the face of sanctions getting lifted anyway.

      I really can't stand this Republican talking point. The only alternative to going with the deal was going to war with Iran immediately which we're not prepared to do politically nor do we have the will to do it.

      It is hard to fathom why anyone would find it a bad thing to have diplomatic relationships with any country. The only reason the U.S. and USSR didn't blow each other up was through back-channel diplomatic relationships where both countries could save face without having to actually launch the apocalypse. Being able to talk to an negotiate with people is not weakness.

    49. Re:Meh. by bobbied · · Score: 1

      I'd like to see the hydrogen bomb small enough to cause a 5.1 earthquake

      H-bombs can be designed with small yields.

      Just not this small. H-Bombs (the common name of boosted nuclear devices) require a fission igniter which has a minimum yield which is bigger than what a 5.1 earthquake suggests was produced here. Where this device may have been designed as a fusion boosted device, it looks like the fission part of the device failed to fully assemble before it detonated, which means the fusion booster part would be blown apart before it could ignite.

      You see, the trick with nuclear weapons is to get the critical mass assembled quick enough to avoid it going prompt critical before you have the mass assembled in the proper geometry to allow as much of the nuclear material to get used up as you can. If the chain reaction starts too soon, the device disassembles itself before the correct geometry is attained and the bomb will "fizzle", and simply blow the booster assembly apart before it can ignite.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    50. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Going from fission bombs to fusion bombs is not difficult, and every country that has attempted it has succeeded on the first try.

      Except, you know, the UK, whose first fusion bomb test had a yield of 300 kt, and it took them 6 months from the first test to actually make it work.

    51. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anybody who upped this is a fucking retard. Bush Jr signed a treaty with Iraq regarding the withdrawal of the US troops. But don't let the reality get in the way of your delusional Obama hate.

    52. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is it false? One President massively overreacted and made the problem worse. More U.S. citizens have died as a result of our dealings than died on 9/11 including the first responders who are still dying. Compare that to the next President who tempered his response and didn't create a whole new branch of government in response to minor attacks.

      The people afraid of a terror attack on U.S. soil have no concept perspective or they would fear driving around city streets a whole lot more. They would want gun control because more people die from accident gunshots than from terrorism on U.S. soil.

    53. Re:Meh. by msauve · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should learn logic. It is true that the NK press release talked about unicorns. Their inability to translate to English makes them look foolish. It's got nothing to do with "western propaganda," as you claimed - anyone can read their own press release and see that they claimed to have found "a lair of the unicorn rode by King Tongmyong."

      Really, you can't make up stuff as good as that.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    54. Re:Meh. by Zeromous · · Score: 1

      Thank you for this post. I found myself both hopeful and nodding in agreement with your assessment.

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    55. Re: Meh. by loufoque · · Score: 1

      ever heard of the concept of sovereignty?

    56. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not a threat to us, so probably not.

    57. Re:Meh. by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      I had wondered this too. Did you notice the control console looked like something out of a 1960s science fiction movie?

    58. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sources please.

    59. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know, his wife is ok looking, but not all that...

      https://www.google.com/search?...

      Her name is Ri (or Lee) Sol Ju.

      Yeah, true, she's not all that, but his assertion still stands.

    60. Re:Meh. by giorgist · · Score: 1

      The complexity of a conspiracy is too hard to maintain. Its a network thing. You have to hope that everybody that has the brain to understand what is happening is in the same wavelength as your self such that now and into the future they will not rat on you. This is too hard so effectively the only lairs can be the ones at the top of the tree.

    61. Re:Meh. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Yeah, no.

      They might have achieved a "boosted" fission device, which can be measured by looking at the overall yield of the device as well as products left behind after detonation to confirm if any fusion happened at all. The US was able to do this relatively shortly after the original Manhattan project (the USSR also did this) but there was a lot of added complexity for very little yield increase.

      The real 'hydrogen bomb' came about from Stanislaus Ulam postulating that you could use the radiation from a fission explosion to compress a fusion fuel load in order to initiate fusion. This idea was quickly picked up on by Edward Teller, and a team was formed to explore it consisting of scientists at Los Alamos and Princeton University. This is how all 'hydrogen bombs' work, though modern designs are a bit more clever than the first experimental devices of the early 1950s that used cryogenic deuterium gas and liquid tritium that needs to be changed out after it half-lifes away; in favor of using lithium-6 deuteride as the fusion fuel, which breaks down into 2T + D during the explosion, which then fuses into He-4 + an extra neutron and releasing ~17MeV worth of energy at the same time.

      If you'd like to read about the many challenges that the original team faced, as well as a pretty good explanation of how it works, I suggest going to one of the physicists involved in the original project: http://www.amazon.com/Building...

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    62. Re:Meh. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      You're probably right when it comes to North Korea, but it's worth mentioning that players in the nuclear weapons game have had variable yield devices for some time now. The US B-61 bomb could be set for 0.3kt to a maximum of 80kt with a dial by the ground operator who loads it into the bomber.

      There's basically no way that North Korea would have a device that sophisticated on their first spin of the wheel though.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    63. Re:Meh. by Strider- · · Score: 1

      You're probably right when it comes to North Korea, but it's worth mentioning that players in the nuclear weapons game have had variable yield devices for some time now. The US B-61 bomb could be set for 0.3kt to a maximum of 80kt with a dial [wikipedia.org] by the ground operator who loads it into the bomber.

      The most likely mechanism for "dial-a-yield" is by varying the amount of tritium injected into the pit prior to detonation, thus dramatically changing the efficiency of the primary and/or changing the geometry of the secondary so that there is either fusion or not.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    64. Re:Meh. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      WTF?

      We don't want of have any allies in the 'Arab world'. Our desired 'endgame' is military stalemate (see the Iran/Iraq wars of the '80s) between the Sunnis and Shia until their remaining oil is irrelevant.

      The Saudis have never been our ally. Both sides have just been smiling at each other while we try to fuck each other over. We know they are at the heart of the ongoing attempted war of Muslim conquest.

      We will own all their grand children's minds via 'MTV middle east'. They will behave in ways that would make the gayest emo kid blush.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    65. Re:Meh. by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

      If they can generate a level-5 seismic event from that, good for them, I guess.

    66. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The approx yield of this test is equal to, or even smaller than the last one, though. So at least until air samples confirm something different, we shouldn't expect this bomb to be anything significantly different. It's entirely possible that it's just a domestic propaganda stunt, though it could also be a test of a more "weaponized" version of their previous A-bombs. Producing a detonation in lab conditions is much different from having a functional warhead small and robust enough to be launched on a missile - that's the capability they are presumably trying to achieve. The 7kt yield is already enough to waste a city, but unlike the US in WW2, North Korea won't be able to just drop it out of a bomber because their bombers (if they have any) would be shot down soon after take-off.

    67. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but ultimately his hands were tied.

      Are you really this dumb? Are you telling me that the same Obama who has used his executive power to circumvent congress at every turn would feel compelled to honor the timeline his predecessor set?
       

    68. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Um, no. The Bush administration developed a timetable, but that involves setting milestones, not setting dates. They also penned a Status of Forces Agreement which had an end date, as all do. We pulled out of Iraq when President Mom Jeans couldn't negotiate a renewal of the Status of Forces Agreement, something so routine that it's generally considered about as close to a rubber stamp process as international relations get. We've maintained them for decades everywhere in the world that we have troops, but he couldn't get it done in one of the two places that actually mattered. Hello ISIS.

    69. Re:Meh. by PPH · · Score: 1

      A mole of hydrogen is 22.4 liters

      ... at STP. Somehow, I doubt that viable fusion weapons design involves tying party balloons full of D2 to the side of the trigger weapon*. In fact, I think all current designs use Lithium instead of D2.

      *OK. So this is North Korea. You could be right.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    70. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell him about the Twinkie.

    71. Re:Meh. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      You haven't addressed his actual question. Sure, the locals might not have TVs that would actually take full benefit of an 1080i broadcast, but we do. If DPRK really broadcast it in 1080i, all Western channels need to do is to rebroadcast that, and everyone can see the high-quality pic. If they have deliberately manipulated the video to look lower quality than it originally was, "why?" is a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

    72. Re:Meh. by nytes · · Score: 1

      To celebrate, Great Leader made balloon animals for his military advisors..

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    73. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's right, Arab rape is much worse than American rape. American rape is hardly rape at all by international standards.

    74. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those are condoms, not balloons!

    75. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He has used fewer EOs than any president in the last half century.

      It's a shame there isn't some sort of global information network to check this sort of thing...

    76. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, just racist.

      They can deny it until the end of time, but the only difference between Obama and our last 10 presidents is the color of his skin and he has been fought on every single issue since the day he was inaugurated. White America has made it clear. No Blacks Allowed.

    77. Re: Meh. by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      He has used fewer EOs than any president in the last half century.

      It's a shame there isn't some sort of global information network to check this sort of thing...

      A shame indeed.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    78. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      she has never actually been to Korea but she likes to parrot what someone told her. but she's just wondering and it's just a question.

      they are eating mud pies and fucking leaf dessert while they might scrabble a fucking kernel of corn off the ground like a fucking chicken but the fucking nitwit she is thinks they have fucking 1080i televisions and electricity to fucking run them - they must all go to bed early which is why their fucking hermit kingdom is in the dark at night - well the lights are on a little bit in the capitol

    79. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      India hasn't succeeded in their own attempts to create a hydrogen bomb. Why should I believe North Korea ?

    80. Re:Meh. by G-forze · · Score: 2

      Well, if the US hadn't disbanded all of Iraq's armed forces, which then were humiliated and unemployed without most of them ever having had anything to do with the Baath party, maybe the insurgence wouldn't have had so many upset men with local knowledge, military training and no other way of feeding their families? That, in my book, is the most severe error that was made. They should have just gotten rid of the uppermost of Saddam's old buddies, then promoted some lower chaps to take their places and put them all to good use, instead of starting an enormous recruitment campaign and trying to re-build the Iraqi army from scratch.

      --
      "There's someone in my head but it's not me." - Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon
    81. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      untrue... AUMF still in force... no presidential order can rescind that. obama has the authority to occupy iraq *now* under US law (which is the only one Obama should be caring about, obviously)

    82. Re:Meh. by thesupraman · · Score: 1

      Ummm, this is so damn retarded that it makes my brain hurt.

      You DO know, I hope, that a hydrogen bomb doesnt burn hydrogen, right?
      The challenge with a 6kt Hbomb is making it that small, not that large.

      Of course the whole thing is almost certainly a pile of BS, the technology to take this step is not simple, and there
      is little evidence that they have a particularly stable nuclear bomb to act as a trigger as yet anyway, so this is most
      likely just more smoke and bluff, but hey.

      It should be quite obvious to anyone who applies more than 2 seconds of critical thinking that this is all defensive anyway.
      The last thing The Great Leader (hmmm..) would want to do is attack someone, because he will be well aware where
      that leads - he just wants to make sure no one comes and takes away his plaything. Thats the last thing he wants.
      He and his cronies wants a damn good reason for people to leave them alone with their victims.

    83. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there's no point suffering crippling economic sanctions just to pretend you're trying to make nukes if you're not.

      History shows that countries with nuclear weapons are much less likely to get attacked than countries without.

      Appearing to have a stronger defense that you actually do can be a deterrent to would-be attackers that have a minimally stronger army that you do.

    84. Re:Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You DO know, I hope, that a hydrogen bomb doesnt burn hydrogen, right?

      It doesn't take a lot of reading to realize that he does. All it would take a click on the "parent" link to realize that he was replying to a claim that NK just filled a balloon with hydrogen and lit it on fire.

    85. Re:Meh. by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Pound for pound, they were probably more effective for the amount of resources and time they spent on them.

      The point of all three of those attacks was to show the impunity which terrorists could act with and to get us to do things to turn this into a religious war.

      I disagree. 9/11 will go down like Pearl Harbour as a pivotal moment that changed history. Many places were bombed in WW2, but Pearl Harbour sent the conflict in a whole new direction. As tragic as the Paris and Ca events were, they haven't really changed the game at all.

    86. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that you waleed you fucking Muslim cunt?
      https://youtu.be/nxNJLkIkYQM

    87. Re:Meh. by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      You DO know, I hope, that I was replying to someone who said that the explosion was from a balloon filled with hydrogen, right?

      It should be painfully obvious that I was bored (said so at the end, inf act) and was just wondering how much hydrogen it would take to make a six kiloton explosion and how big the balloon would have to be to hold that hydrogen. Some of us do pointless math for fun.

    88. Re:Meh. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      The linked article mentions both tritium injection, as well as the use of timing and "external neutron initiators" are the mechanisms used.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    89. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe not if you're American and dont give a shit about Europe. Those attacks have created big change in Europe.

    90. Re: Meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be real fucking dumb if you don't think ISIS is the JV team. A couple of haphazard shootings that are on the scale of something like Columbine are nothing close to the Varsity teams exploits of hijacking a handful of American airliners and destroying some of the most prominent structures in the world while killing over 3000 Americans and drawing the US into TWO 10+ year wars costing trillions. Did Japan or Russia ever slam a 747-sized missile filled with Americans into the goddamned pentagon???

      ISIS IS THE JV TEAM.

    91. Re:Meh. by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      I believe these republican talking points (and "talking points" going back 15-20 years regarding the need for the US to attack Iran, Iraq, Syria etc.) are read on the internet by DPRK's military elites, which are synonymous with political elites in that country.

      Somehow there is extremely aggressive rhetoric coming from the US all the time, but so much of the world is peaceful or safe (Europe, China, Japan etc.) we don't bat an eye. With DPRK's own aggressive/defensive behavior that makes a naturally self-reinforcing loop. It is extremely easy for the regime to "teach" its people about such US behavior and statements. They own the few newspapers, the one TV channel and the radio channel(s) thus media, politics and military are one and the same.

      The "axis of evil" speech alone was enough to rally the korea nation (well the part freed from imperialism in their view) against the american rabid dogs / wolves / bloodthirsty and cruel beasts ready to slaughter the innocent, pure and well-meaning korean people like a fox in the hen house and for that they need to train hard and be ready to fight to the last drop of blood (with a determination reminiscent of Imperial Japan, but don't tell them!)

  2. Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It won't be long before China or Russia sells them a delivery vehicle, if they haven't done so already.

    1. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They don't need a special delivery vehicle for the purpose of inciting fear.
      Hide the bomb in a shipping crate and you can hit any coastal city in the world.

    2. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh fuck off.

      I'm sick of being told by people that I need to be scared because the North Koreans / Mozlems / Commies / Mexicans are $minor_hurdle away from raping my wife, blowing up my house, and stealing my bike.

      I'm SICK of being told to be scared and I won't fucking do it any more.

      If the NKs have a bomb, good on em.

      How about we stop fucking with the world's people and then they'll have no reason to want to blow us up?

      Does anyone actually believe that "they hate us fer aar freedoms" ? Coz I sure as fuck don't any more.

    3. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So, what would NK do with it? The military leaders aren't completely insane like some dictators here and there. Not even the front figures are that insane.
      They have to keep playing war to keep the population timid. Any longer period of peace and the population will not be as willing to make sacrifices for the state.
      The occasional bullet shot at South Korea is mostly symbolic. They do just what they can get away with and SK doesn't retaliate because they don't want to harm the North Korean civilians.

      The real players are China, Russia and South Korea (backed by the US.) here. NK just abuses the situation to keep control of their population.
      No one of them takes any strong stance regarding NK since that would piss off the others.
      If North Korea does something so inconvenient that any one of its neighbors feels that a war might be better then North Korea would be obliterated in a matter of days.
      Having a hydrogen bomb or two with delivery mechanism is not going to change that.

    4. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      Probably they'll hack into Elon Musk's google drive and steal his rocket plans.

    5. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Kjella · · Score: 2

      It won't be long before China or Russia sells them a delivery vehicle, if they haven't done so already.

      They have Seoul with a population of almost 10 million only 35 miles from the border and that's as good a hostage as any. North Korea must have people who know about the outside world and that they'd be obliterated if they attacked anyone. Even China might just roll over them to avoid western forces on their borders if necessary. He's realized that if you only seem "half dangerous" like Iraq, Afghanistan etc. you get invaded. If you are armed to the teeth and batshit crazy maybe you're not. He would, as far as I can tell be the first nuclear force to be invaded.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    6. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They'll still want to kill us simply because of what we represent, regardless of whether or not we "fuck with them."

    7. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Delivery Vehicle? China or Russia?

      Can't N. Korea just order something from Amazon and when the UPS truck shows up, hijack it? They'll get their delvery vehicle for the cost of $35 for whatever they bought with Super Saver shipping!

    8. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      +1.

      North Korea doesn't want a war with America or South Korea. They know they would be wiped out in a matter of days. They (the Kim regime) want to keep living like kings, with all the food, women, drugs, and praise anyone could ever dream of.

      Of course they want the status quo, and the only way to keep that is through duping the populace with this perpetual war. They are like a thug who acts badass, but not badass enough to have someone actually react (get arrested or his ass kicked).

    9. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, right. Did you know that you are STILL formally at war with them?

    10. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would they? They have the capacity to launch satellites, do you think they need outside help to build their own warhead capable ICBMs?

    11. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by gtall · · Score: 2

      Before the Norks went to the Great Leader in the Sky, a lot of Sorks would die first because it doesn't take long to light off the Norks missiles which are aimed and ready for screwing S. Korea.

      And after the war, the winning combatants would have to put up with world condemnation for killing so many innocent Norks. Plus, they'd have to fund the rehab of N. Korea.

      And any build up before a war would have to counter the help Putin would give to the Norks, because he would see it as a way of raising the cost. He'd could then argue to his own sheep that what happened to the Norks was being planned for the Russkies.

    12. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean, the world's NOT fair??

    13. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      They are a "thug" who likes instigating trouble to act badass but who would get trounced in an actual fight?

      My god, North Korea is a real-life Internet Troll!

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    14. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about we stop fucking with the world's people and then they'll have no reason to want to blow us up?

      Oh, there is always a reason... Nobody said reasons are rational. e.g. THE pink unicorn told me to eliminate anyone who does not openly profess believing in the exact same breed of that same identical unicorn---if your unicorn is in any way different, or tells you anything different, then you're my sworn enemy and my only goal in life is to kill you. Now, describe to me your unicorn so I can make a decision whether you'll join me in my crusade or become my sworn enemy?

      An incredible number of people will fall for the above...

    15. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And if you want the US to stop fucking with the rest of the world, then maybe the rest of the world should stand up and fight for themselves and stop living the socialist dream where socialistic ideas strip necessary funding from programs such as National Defense apparatus. The rest of the world would be in hell had the US not entered World War 1 and 2. Also if you do feel like we need to stop fucking with the rest of the world then maybe you should petition NATO and the UN to expel the US so we wouldn't be called upon when there is a major issue taking place. Take up arms and defend your borders and stop relying on the US when you get your panties ruffled by terrorists.

    16. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by malditaenvidia · · Score: 1

      North Korea doesn't want a war with America or South Korea. They know they would be wiped out in a matter of days.

      I'm guessing you mean a nuclear war, because invading Best Korea would certainly not take a few days. Don't forget the Korean war and the problematic geography of the country.

    17. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by dcw3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apparently, you believe we enjoy sending our children out to fight (and die) when in your ass is in a sling. The vast majority of us would prefer not to do so. When was the last time America actually saw any benefit from doing so? Did we steal the oil from Iraq, as many accused us of being motivated for? No, but because we screwed up with the Iraq II, nobody wanted to finish up what was started, and we've been left with the void that created ISIS.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    18. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So does this mean we (the free world) have to squish them before they can build a second bomb?

    19. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by adhdengineer · · Score: 1

      they may need outside help to create a ICBM capable warhead tho.

    20. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing you mean a nuclear war, because invading Best Korea would certainly not take a few days.

      Even with conventional weapons, the west could eliminate their navy and air force in very short order.

    21. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

      Unless they forget to get the book 'o matches

    22. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Is that why they've been so quiet? Get real. Here's a list of just the incidents since 2010. The list dating back to the '50s can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      January 27, 2010: North Korea fires artillery shells into the water near Baengnyeong Island and South Korean vessels return fire.[29][30] Three days later, North Korea continued to fire artillery towards the area.[31]
      March 26, 2010: A South Korean naval vessel, the ROKS Cheonan, was allegedly sunk by a North Korean torpedo near Baengnyeong Island in the Yellow Sea. A rescue operation recovered 58 survivors but 46 sailors were killed. On May 20, 2010, a South Korean led international investigation group concluded that the sinking of the warship was in fact the result of a North Korean torpedo attack.[32][33] North Korea denied involvement.[34] The United Nations Security Council made a Presidential Statement condemning the attack but without identifying the attacker.[35]
      October 29, 2010: Two shots are fired from North Korea toward a South Korean post near Hwacheon and South Korean troops fire three shots in return.[36]
      November 23, 2010: North Korea fired artillery at South Korea's Greater Yeonpyeong island in the Yellow Sea and South Korea returned fire. Two South Korean marines and two South Korean civilians were killed, six were seriously wounded, and ten were treated for minor injuries. About seventy South Korean houses were destroyed.[37][38][39] North Korean casualties were unknown, but Lee Hong-gi, the Director of Operations of the South Korean Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS), claimed that as a result of the South Korean retaliation "there may be a considerable number of North Korean casualties".[40]
      October 6, 2012: An 18-year-old North Korean Army private defects to South Korea. He is apparently not detected as he crossed the DMZ and has to knock on an ROK barracks door to draw attention to himself. The soldier later tells investigators that he defected after killing two of his superiors.[41][42]
      September 16, 2013: A 47-year-old man is shot dead by South Korean soldiers while trying to swim across the Tanpocheon Stream near Paju to North Korea.[43]
      February 26, 2014: South Korean defense officials claim that despite warnings a North Korean warship has repeatedly crossed into South Korean waters overnight.[44]
      March 24, 2014: A North Korean drone is found crashed near Paju. The onboard cameras contain pictures of the Blue House and military installations near the DMZ. Another North Korean drone crashes on Baengnyeongdo on March 31.[45][46]
      October 10, 2014: North Korean forces fire anti-aircraft rounds at propaganda balloons launched from Paju. South Korean military return fire after a warning.[47]
      October 19, 2014: A group of North Korean soldiers approach the South Korean border and South Korean soldiers fire warning shots. The North Korean soldiers return fire before retreating. No injuries or property damage result.[48]
      June 15, 2015: A teenaged North Korean soldier walks across the DMZ and defects at a South Korean guard post in north-eastern Hwacheon.[49]
      August 4, 2015: Two South Korean soldiers were wounded after stepping on landmines that had allegedly been laid on the southern side of the DMZ by North Korean forces next to a ROK guard post.[50] Kim Jin Moon of the South Korean-based Korea Institute for Defense Analyses, suggested that the incident was planned by members of the General Bureau of Reconnaissance to prove their loyalty to Kim Jong-un.[51]
      August 9, 2015: Two South Korean soldiers are wounded after stepping on landmines that had allegedly been laid on the southern side of the DMZ by North Korean forces next to a ROK guard post.[52]
      August 20, 2015: As a reaction to the August 4 landmines, South Korea resumed playing propaganda on loudspeakers near the border.[53] In 2004 both sides had agreed to end their loudspeaker broadcasts at each other.[54] North Korea threatened to attack th

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    23. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by malditaenvidia · · Score: 1

      Invading the mainland would be an entirely different story, the mountain ranges make for perfect AA battery locations and a pain to deploy troops through.

    24. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by bfpierce · · Score: 1

      Maybe you're new, but those two things alone have never won ANY wars.

    25. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      We don't have to occupy them. We can just completely disarm them. You are confusing our own genuine national interest with some misguided notion of empire or nation building.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    26. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You naïve fool. Unlike your happy sunshine and ponies world, in the real world, people are hungry and willing to steal whatever they can.

    27. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by bfpierce · · Score: 1

      Yeah that's working out great against ISIS right?

      Do you people even bother to watch current events? NK has over 8 million available troops, they aren't just going to hang out in their own neighborhood and get bombed.

    28. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by dj245 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It won't be long before China or Russia sells them a delivery vehicle, if they haven't done so already.

      They have Seoul with a population of almost 10 million only 35 miles from the border and that's as good a hostage as any. North Korea must have people who know about the outside world and that they'd be obliterated if they attacked anyone. Even China might just roll over them to avoid western forces on their borders if necessary. He's realized that if you only seem "half dangerous" like Iraq, Afghanistan etc. you get invaded. If you are armed to the teeth and batshit crazy maybe you're not. He would, as far as I can tell be the first nuclear force to be invaded.

      Having been to the DPRK, I don't think anyone can really understand it without visiting. 99% of what is written about the country is written by outsiders, and a substantial amount of that is written by South Korea, which is still at war with the North. So propaganda abounds.

      Having said that, I don't completely understand the DPRK either, but many of the things they do make sense from their perspective. Many people there sincerely believe that South Korea and the USA plan to invade their country by force at some point. It isn't an unrealistic idea- the USA has a long history of invading and bombing places that we don't like. Every single year in April there are joint South Korea / USA exercises right off the coast of North Korea. These happen in disputed waters- Look at the Northern Limit Line and how it compares to the land border. If you look at it impartially, it is skewed in favor of the South. This is the part of the ocean where the USA and South Korea do combined exercises every single year in April. The USA and South Korea say these are defensive exercises to practice coordination of forces. I have no doubt that statement is both honest and true.

      The problem is that North Korea sees that we are using landing craft in these exercises. There is one in the very first photo on the Foal Eagle wikipedia page. Hovercraft aren't generally classified as defensive vehicles. They are for making beach landings. I'm sure there are perfectly valid reasons (opening up additional fronts in a defensive war, etc) for having hovercraft in defensive military exercises. But North Korea doesn't see it that way. The US and South Korea escalate the situation every single year with the military exercises. They aren't stupid- they know they would lose a war, and they are quite understandably fearful of one. Paranoia isn't crazy when it has a solid basis in reality and history. Having nuclear weapons is the only card they can possibly play to ensure the survival of their way of life in the event of a real conflict. You may not agree with their way of life, but most people around the world are willing to defend their way of life to the death.

      Poking North Korea annually with a stick hasn't worked. The only realistic action we can expect under the current circumstances is for them to continue sharpening their own sticks. It is time to stop believing that isolationism, military threats, embargoes, and sanctions can work on a country that has resisted for over 60 years. It is time for talk. Talking to them may go absolutely nowhere. I expect the first few talks will accomplish a whole lot of nothing. However, it is my opinion that so long as the US is spending billions propping up the South Korean military, making honest efforts to to end the conflict through discussions is the least we can do.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    29. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by ITRambo · · Score: 1

      I agree with your sentiment but will advise you to spell words correctly, not in Reddit-speak, to be taken seriously Kapish?

    30. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently, you believe we enjoy sending our children out to fight (and die) when in your ass is in a sling. .

      Maybe you don't enjoy it -then stop electing people who do! Get your house in order (literally and figuratively) and stop trying to boss everyone around and be a leader instead. God only knows what good a decent US could do to the world.

    31. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      They'll still want to kill us simply because of what we represent, regardless of whether or not we "fuck with them."

      And yet, it is the United States, which is the only country which has actually used nuclear weapons to kill other people.

    32. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's the problem with "American Exceptionalism". Most Americans that know of it believe it; it was at the utter core of the Monroe Doctrine, and most American Foreign Policy since.
      Tom Brokaw's "The Greatest Generation" is just as bad. Was that time period also the "Greatest Generation" for the Brits? Possibly. For the Germans and Japanese?

      Let's talk about the Brits. They had the World... and they let it go. Not easily and not without pain, largely for the Others. Great Britain has now turned largely Isolationist, since being the World's Policemen just wasn't worth the trouble. Export "Sherlock" instead.

      All of the Russian Models have failed; Strongmen have _always_ run Russia, whatever ideology, and Putin will not die old and beloved. Russia expands and contracts, but it is always self-absorbed and xenophobic, and curiously, when Russia expands, Russian Culture doesn't.

      Japan is _still_ pissed off about losing their last Big Territorial War. They just know well enough not to discuss it in Public.

      The same goes for Germany. What wasn't achieved by the Kaiser, or Hitler, by Military means, is now being done by Merkel. Greece is supposed to be an _Example_- don't screw with German Profits, or their utter control of the EU. _Their_ EU.

      There was supposed to be an "American Century"; about half of the run of normal Empires, but a Shining Beacon for the Future. This was supposed to be done through NATO and the UN, both controlled by wise Americans through the formative stages. Reagan blew that all to Hell. If the US doesn't get its way, it will just go Unilateral, and blow the shit out of some Cuban Airport workers in Grenada.
      Vietnam was bad, but at least it had some International history; France, Japan, France again, then the US.
      Grenada was indefensible. America as Bully. Speak Loudly and whack with a Big Stick.

      Bush I in Kuwait regained credibility; Bush II, in Iraq of all places, utterly destroyed any concept that America knew what it was doing. The American Century: 1945-2002.

      Empires don't usually start or end quickly, they just fade in and out, and new ones then take their place. Exceptionalism... isn't.

      (BTW, I don't believe that the Norks have Nukes, for reasons that I don't, or can't, go in to.)

      Captcha- astatine; how could Slashdot possibly know?

    33. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by gsslay · · Score: 1

      What is it you "represent"? Other than anonymity and cowardry?

    34. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

      ...and drove oil prices down. (Just pointing out the irony.)

      While I am not interested in the US being the world's police force or moral compass, when looking at the alternatives I don't think it is the worst outcome. Other options are Russia, China, Japan, Germany, UK, India, Saudi Arabia, and Iran. Regional power centers don't work very well-- and pretty much every government acts in their own self-interest. Even when you have governments that act in the common good like Sweden, you are still stuck with the issues of internal backlash and the situation eventually becoming abused.

    35. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      North Korea is more like a life action version of 1984.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    36. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hovercraft aren't generally classified as defensive vehicles.

      Seems you've never attempted (or died futilely trying) an amphibious assault through an impenetrable wall of hovercraft full of eels.

    37. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If NKor as much as thinks of pondering about possibly considering the consideration of maybe firing a missile armed with a nuclear warhead in the general direction of the US, I doubt that much of the mainland would remain inhabitable...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    38. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You really think anyone gives half a fuck about NKors? They have no money, the market is pretty much nonexistent. They may be interesting as wage slaves once the Chinese get cocky and actually want wages above a cent an hour, but who needs NKor for that when we have Africa?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    39. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, right. Did you know that you are STILL formally at war with them?

      I assume you are referring to the United States. The US never declared war with North Korea, so it is impossible to be "STILL at war with them." If you review history, what is often referred to as the Korean War was a civil war between North and South Korea, in which the United States engaged militarily under the auspices of the United Nations Security Council support for the South.

      This is not to minimize the sacrifices made by many Americans in the conflict. Only to point out that it wasn't actually a declared a War. The United States has only issued a declaration of war five times (War of 1812, Mexican-American War, Spanish-American War, World War I and World War II"

      And finally, an armistice agreement was signed in 1953, ending the conflict, so even if it was a declared war, it was formally ended sixty-three years ago.

    40. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      The North Korean regime may seem batshit insane, but they're not. They want power, they want luxury, they want to have a good life, but that's it. Li'l Kim ain't no Hitler. He's not into creating a huge war and riding the bomb to hell.

      He plays with the fears of those that actually have anything to lose. Call him bluff and realize that he is far more terrified of losing his power, money and hoes than you are of his bomb.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    41. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Please don't. He's one of the few regimes on this planet that is still entertaining. So few tinpot dictators are left today.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    42. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      How about we stop fucking with the world's people and then they'll have no reason to want to blow us up?

      Does anyone actually believe that "they hate us fer aar freedoms

      Pope Paul VI said it more eloquently: If you want peace, work for justice. Those words, often ignored, are just as true today as they were in 1972.

    43. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not being able to find a less important nation on a map is no sin. I bet you can't name the first thing about dozens of uninportant nations. Expecting the average American citizen to be able to name all the stuff about you is just as unfair.

    44. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by crow_t_robot · · Score: 1

      Are you saying they hate us for our freedoms??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    45. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by crow_t_robot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When was the last time America actually saw any benefit from doing so?

      Uh, American Imperialism in the form of military bases in almost every country in the world is extremely effective in pursuing and forwarding American economic interests. Not sure if you are aware of that.

    46. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Yeah surely they are all sane. You ever wondered why only few rather naive people tried to stop the bad Austrian painter even if failure was clearly visible? This probably happens from time to time in NK too and the trusted advisers and generals die in car accidents.

    47. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who is Kapish? I advise you to spell words correctly, capisce?

    48. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What kind of absolute moron compares WWI and WWII?? There were entirely different situations, oh maybe the names are alike.. So the rest of the world should arm up and all will be well? Open carry for the world huh??

    49. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you mean 'capisce'?

    50. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Learn some history. The US was peripheral to WW1, and happily traded with the Nazis during WW2. The USSR won the war for Europe, but thanks all the same for the financing, lend-lease, etc.

    51. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is fairly quiet.

      They can get away with a couple of deaths each year. As long as the general population of South Korea doesn't fear for their lives but rather think of it like traffic accidents North Korea is relatively safe.
      A few deaths every year is nothing compared to what would happen during a retaliation.

    52. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by swillden · · Score: 1

      Apparently, you believe we enjoy sending our children out to fight (and die) when in your ass is in a sling. The vast majority of us would prefer not to do so.

      Yet we keep electing people who apparently do enjoy it. Sigh.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    53. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're so ignorant you don't even know what NATO is. Let me enlighten you - the Commander in Chief of NATO is the President of the United States. It is a military organization that operates at the behest of the US, and is in essence an aggressive defensive treaty. If you were poor and lived in a place with no rule of law, I think you would piss your pants and hide and your 2nd amendment tooting redneck rhetoric would disappear about as fast as your feigned sense of courage.

    54. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We are invited into countries with open arms by governments that then rely on the US for both funding (we pay for those bases and the personnel inject funds into the local economy) and US military defense. Do you really think Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea would stay independent of China if they did not have US military support that dwarfs their home-funded armies?

      Americans pay for the security of the world without compensation because we believe in a just world where people are independent; free to do what they want. No other country in all of history has ever had a distinct military advantage over all other rivals and not tried to conquer the known world.

      In other words, if you think having limited military bases for the benefit of the host country, paid for by the US, is a form of imperialism you really need to learn some history and look at the atrocities of the many empires through history. Since you write excellent English I suggest you start with the horrific barbarism of the British Empire.

    55. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Copid · · Score: 1

      Having nukes is also a much cheaper way to maintain military deterrence. If you're a country that can barely feed itself, trying to keep up and equip a massive conventional military is a charade you can't keep going forever at scale. Once you have nukes hidden somewhere, you always have a viable military threat, even if you can no longer afford to put on big parades with zillions of troops and tanks on display. It's a very rational plan.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    56. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      The USSR won the war for Europe, but thanks all the same for the financing, lend-lease, etc.

      They would not have done so, had the Western Governments signed a peace deal with Hitler.

      Had the British Empire done a deal in 1940, removing the threat from the West, had Hitler not declared war against the US in 1941, then the USSR likely would have lost.

      In the event, they came close, a few adjustments, some changes to minor details, and they could have lost as it was, Hitler got really close.

    57. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Call him bluff and realize that he is far more terrified of losing his power, money and hoes than you are of his bomb.

      That's not the point. If he is invaded and will lose his "power, money and hoes" either way, will he gracefully surrender? Or will he call on all his subjects to defend their Great Leader to the last man, launching the nukes not because it will change the outcome but for revenge? I don't seem him leaving power gracefully.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    58. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      That's the problem with "American Exceptionalism".

      The idea of it was routed in truth however... our ideas and our ideals are in fact superior to most others, at the time the term was coined.

      We have gotten off track a bit since then, but there is some truth to it. The idea of freedom, liberty, "rights", and all that, is in fact exceptional, compared to what much of the world lives under.

      Let's talk about the Brits. They had the World... and they let it go.

      The irony is that Winston Churchill is seen as a great leader, one of the greatest PMs ever. Yet he led the British Empire to utter collapse and largely destroyed it.

      He took on Germany, and won in the short term, but really lost in the long run. The British Empire was not prepared to fight Germany, and should have done a deal in 1940. Let Hitler and Stalin smash each other into pieces for awhile, build up your strength, get America into the war BEFORE you fight back, and so on.

      It is quite possible that Hitler could have won against the USSR, had the British Empire done a deal in 1940. But it is also possible the British Empire would still exist in 2015, had they done so. The world would be a very different place. For all the evils of Hitler (and he had his share), Stalin was no better (worse in many regards), so leaving the USSR intact wasn't really any better than Nazi Germany.

      Japan is _still_ pissed off about losing their last Big Territorial War.

      I don't agree, but your statement is more opinion than fact, so fair enough, you can think that.

      Japan got kicked hard enough to see that their path was wrong, that they would face extinction if they continued. Today they are an ally and peaceful nation. Good for them.

      The same goes for Germany. What wasn't achieved by the Kaiser, or Hitler, by Military means, is now being done by Merkel. Greece is supposed to be an _Example_- don't screw with German Profits, or their utter control of the EU. _Their_ EU.

      Nothing wrong with what Merkel is doing, she isn't sending armies anywhere or mass killing anyone.

      Greece made their bed, now they are sleeping in it. They had the option to leave the Euro and choose not to take it.

      (BTW, I don't believe that the Norks have Nukes, for reasons that I don't, or can't, go in to.)

      Your belief is not required, they do, everyone agrees that they do, even the US Government doesn't deny it. You thinking they don't doesn't account for much.

    59. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      And yet, it is the United States, which is the only country which has actually used nuclear weapons to kill other people.

      And your point?

      So what, would you like to compare death counts among nations? I think you'll find the United States comes out rather well on that account, at least from 1900 onward.

      Or perhaps you would prefer they had not been used and another 2 million had to die via conventional means for another 9 months? Would that be better?

      Frankly, had nuclear weapons been used in Korea in 1950, perhaps the war would have been over quickly, there wouldn't be a separate South/North today, and millions of dead since that war would we alive today.

      As Patton once said, you don't win a war by dying for your country, you win by making the other dumb sonofabitch die for his.

    60. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Koreantoast · · Score: 2

      It is time to stop believing that isolationism, military threats, embargoes, and sanctions can work on a country that has resisted for over 60 years. It is time for talk. Talking to them may go absolutely nowhere. I expect the first few talks will accomplish a whole lot of nothing. However, it is my opinion that so long as the US is spending billions propping up the South Korean military, making honest efforts to to end the conflict through discussions is the least we can do.

      South Korea tried engagement, an effort known as the Sunshine Policy which ultimately failed. They poured billions in development dollars into North Korea and held two summits, but in the end, there was no impact to the quality of life for the North Korean people, no softening of their stance (in fact, they provoked a naval battle with the South, resulting in the deaths of six South Korean sailors), and continued nuclear weapons development. True, there have been flaws in the implementation, and difficulties with the Bush administration, but given the effort over a nearly eight year period, one would have expected some movement. Outside a few photo ops however, there was nothing, and thus, the South Koreans abandoned the effort.

    61. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Poking North Korea annually with a stick hasn't worked.

      No, because if you poke a bully with a stick he just punches you.

      Force generally only works in the extreme, anything else has you looking like a fool.

      Either use maximum force and hit them with everything you've got, or don't bother.

      It is time for talk. Talking to them may go absolutely nowhere.

      That has already been done, there have been talks, more talks, and lots more talks, for years and years...

      The talking has indicated only one thing. At least one side doesn't want true peace. I can't say which side that really is, since I wasn't there, but if both sides wanted peace, there would be peace.

      It takes one to tango, and two to stop. If one side doesn't want peace, they'll find a way to keep the tango going.

    62. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "if both sides wanted peace, there would be peace."

      Peace requires that both sides also trust the other to want peace.

      This is the difference between diplomacy and contract law. In the latter there is (ostensibly) a third party to enforce the terms so you don't necessarily have to establish any additional trust with your counterparty if you have trust in contract law enforcement. In diplomacy there is no one to appeal to who can enforce terms. Third parties can only help you establish trust.

    63. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      The US is more than happy to pull out when asked, just look at Iraq and The Philippines. Of course, it seems like they are begging us to come back and help them with their problems now, but you are welcome to ask us to leave.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    64. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Name the candidate that doesn't that is likely to even be on the ballot.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    65. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      the only way to keep that is through duping the populace with this perpetual war.

      I wonder where they think this leads. If they keep announcing that they have more and more advanced weapons, in order to keep up that trend then eventually they'll need to announce that they have missiles capable of striking the US. At that point they will have declared that they have the capability to attack the US mainland with nuclear weapons (regardless of whether or not that's true, like this announcement). At some point the population is going to start wondering, if NK is in some constant state of war, and has the capability to crush the US like the government claims, then why haven't they done it? Eventually the NK government is going to run out of lies to tell their people, I wonder if they've planned that far ahead. At some point there aren't going to be any new weapons to claim they have or any new capability they claim without their people wondering why they aren't using those things to finally win the non-stop war and re-unite the peninsula.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    66. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. The only 'real player' in this is China. Only China can have any real impact on the situation in NK. Since technically the 'world' (the US + SK + anyone who was involved in the Korean War) is still 'technically' at war with NK that includes China who are NK's 'ally' in the war. So, to end this situation requires only that China remove all support from NK & declare not just an armistice/cease fire but a complete treaty to end the war. If China removed their military support from NK the whole situation would change overnight.

      Ultimately NK needs to be brought properly on to the world stage to help them in developing trade & commerce with other countries, grow their economy etc. Sure they are being run by a mad man/dictator & military dictators but China could go in & have a little 'chat' with them & start changing the whole situation overnight. The 'rest of the world' can do nothing here this is why sanctions & making impotent useless public statements means nothing, if & when China decides that NK isn't useful to them or China wants to REALLY demonstrate their usefulness to the world they'd fix this situation properly.

    67. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I'll just leave this here.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      The Organization of Eastern Caribbean States (OECS), as well as the nations of Barbados and Jamaica, appealed to the United States for assistance.[3] It was later reported that Grenada's governor-general, Paul Scoon, had requested the invasion through secret diplomatic channels. Scoon was well within his rights to take this action under the reserve powers vested in the Crown.[14] On Saturday 22 October 1983, the Deputy High Commissioner in Bridgetown, Barbados visited Grenada and reported that Sir Paul Scoon was well and "did not request military intervention, either directly or indirectly".[15]

      When the lawful government of a country asks for assistance, would you rather we sit back and watch a violent group overthrow the rightful government?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    68. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Are there any plans? I mean, plans to relaunch the hulk that they made such a big deal about recovering? (it's not really a proven relaunchable vehicle until they've relaunched it a few times)

    69. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      That is a good point. I would like to challenge silentcoder to please point to New Mexico on a map and name its capital.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    70. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      All fair points...

    71. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by swillden · · Score: 1

      Name the candidate that doesn't that is likely to even be on the ballot.

      We also decide who will be on the ballot. It's a smaller subset of "we", namely the people who participate in local, state and national party caucuses, but it's still "we". Anyone who wants to can participate.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    72. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is your vision of how that situation ends? There is no finishing up.
      ISIS is merely the newest incarnation of radical groups that have existed long before Bush or Obama.

    73. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      Maybe you're new, but those two things alone have never won ANY wars.

      Depends what the objective is. If you take out their air force, navy, and missile launchers then you effectively prevent their ability wage war on anyone. You don't actually have to invade.

    74. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      I didnt suggest you should be able to point out KZN... just the country. In every other country you learn the location of every other country in primary school. Even now 25 odd years later i could find ethiopia or denmark. You name it. Because other countries actually think its critical to raise children to know how big the world is and not think their nation is the centre off it. Its an attitude difference creating a different type of education.
      More importantly I have no responsibility to know that. Who I vote for will only ever affect my fellow voting countrymen and affect them a tiny fraction as much as who you vote for.
      You have a responsibilty to know about our lives because you end up voting for our future as well. Your choice in a few months will have more influence on my families fortunes for the next 4 years than all the ballots of my entire life combined. You have a responsibility because of that. You can deny that responsibility but it wont go away. Oh and I could point out at least 30 US states and name their capitals. Way more than I challenged you on.
      Final note: there is no auch thing as a "minor" country.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    75. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      I got news for you - what you say no other country has done America has not done either. You have conquered the world and taken all the perks, you just pretend you havent to deny the responsibility. Nobody dares elect a leader unfriendly to American corporations lest you abandon all the principals you just claimed to hold and fund a coup to replace that leader with a puppet military dictator like youve done dozens of times since world war 2

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    76. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      The price of oil didn't drop until this last year, and had zip to do with that. See the chart http://www.macrotrends.net/136...

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    77. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by crow_t_robot · · Score: 1

      Those are clearly outliers and if you think the U.S. is ready to give up strategic positions and economic beachheads in places like Turkey, Germany, etc then you have lost your mind. Maritime pre-positioning and the like scaled way up couldn't come close to replacing those lost positions.

    78. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Who knows, the only way to see would be to ask.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    79. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      And yet, it is the United States, which is the only country which has actually used nuclear weapons to kill other people.

      And your point?

      So what, would you like to compare death counts among nations? I think you'll find the United States comes out rather well on that account, at least from 1900 onward.

      Or perhaps you would prefer they had not been used and another 2 million had to die via conventional means for another 9 months? Would that be better?

      Frankly, had nuclear weapons been used in Korea in 1950, perhaps the war would have been over quickly, there wouldn't be a separate South/North today, and millions of dead since that war would we alive today.

      As Patton once said, you don't win a war by dying for your country, you win by making the other dumb sonofabitch die for his.

      My point was that the poster was worried what North Korea might do at some point in the future if they have nuclear weapons. Lots of countries have nuclear weapons and yet it is the United States that actually deployed them.

      Not only did we deploy them, but we did so against predominantly non-military targets, killing 129,000 civilians or about 1/3 the population. Not included in this total is the untold suffering of hundreds of thousands who survived the initial bombing, but were maimed or otherwise wounded, usually, severely. Nor for the large increase in cancers and other health issues for those two cities that persist, even today.

      Under no reasonable estimate from would 2 million US lives been at risk if the bombs had not been dropped. Truman, himself, stated in his memoirs that he believed the bombings saved upto 500,000 lives. A number of his advisers were opposed to dropping the bombs as the current mentality was that a naval blockade would have been as effective at preserving American soldiers lives without the collateral damage to the civilian population. Estimates of civilian deaths from a siege, mainly from lack of medicine or food were less than 10,000.

      Many historians argue that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not about ending the war with Japan or protecting American lives. The ware was effectively over prior to that, even though there had not been an official surrender, yet. The argument is that it was a show of force to other nations as to what would happen in you messed with the United States, particularly directed at the Soviet Union.

      Again, the point of the post was not to argue the merits of dropping the bombs on Japan. It was simple to point outthe hypocrisy of being against N.Korea using nuclear weapons against their enemies when that is exactly what the US did sixty years earlier.

    80. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I don't know what specific country you think I would struggle to find, but in my school we went through each continent through the course of elementary and middle school (1-5 and 6-8 years) and were required to know where each country was. We also did all 50 US states, and the counties in our own state.

      I never said any country was minor. However I wish Kim Jong Un would keel over and die, since it would be a significant improvement for his people.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    81. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It won't be long before China or Russia sells them a delivery vehicle, if they haven't done so already.

      They have a few dozen submarines. Admittedly, they're antiques, but would probably work fine for a suicide mission. Suicide as in "don't tell the crew we're detonating it as soon as we get close".

    82. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by clovis · · Score: 0

      I got news for you - what you say no other country has done America has not done either. You have conquered the world and taken all the perks, you just pretend you havent to deny the responsibility. Nobody dares elect a leader unfriendly to American corporations lest you abandon all the principals you just claimed to hold and fund a coup to replace that leader with a puppet military dictator like youve done dozens of times since world war 2

      Dozens?
      Give us a list, please, where the USA funded a coup to replace an elected leader with a puppet military dictator.

    83. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by KatchooNJ · · Score: 1

      Hovercraft aren't generally classified as defensive vehicles.

      Seems you've never attempted (or died futilely trying) an amphibious assault through an impenetrable wall of hovercraft full of eels.

      Aaaaand... here come the Hungarians.

      --
      "Never give up, for that is just the time and place when the tide will change." -Harriet Beecher Stowe ^_^
    84. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      They can't do a flight test of an ICBM warhead without everyone getting really pissed about it, let alone retrieving parts from the ocean for examination.
      Basically they can make ICBMs but they can't test them - which maybe means they can't make meaningful ICBMs.

    85. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      If our votes affect you that much than you do live in a 'minor' country. Sucks to be you.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    86. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      What is the ratio of the sizes of their economies?

      N Korea doesn't stand a chance in a war. But it would be ugly for a week or two.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    87. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      N Korean missiles are currently liquid fueled. It does take a while to lite them off. At which time N Korea is guaranteed of one thing. American air superiority.

      Sure the 'panties in a bunch' crowd would be upset, so what?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    88. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only reason North Korea was able to gain a stalemate was the involvement of the Chinese Army.

    89. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having been to the DPRK, I don't think anyone can really understand it without visiting. 99% of what is written about the country is written by outsiders, and a substantial amount of that is written by South Korea, which is still at war with the North. So propaganda abounds.

      And here you are, yet another confused and/or biased outsider writing about the DPRK. Thanks for your special insight.

    90. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Yes, you used the phrase "less important" - I stand by the assertion that there is no such thing.
      Every country is filled with people who have no lesser claim to rights than you do.

      And nothing you won't let them do to you or your government should you allow your government to do them. No matter how much you may hate the specific people involved. I despise the Taliban - but the US had no right to go and kill them. Not unless you are accepting as a matter of course that they had a right to come and kill congressmen. I'm sure you would say they didn't. So then the American government had no right to kill them either. The excuse that they *would* kill Americans otherwise holds no water.
      There are plenty of ways to prevent that without killing them.

      Not to mention that if you always pursued those - there would be far fewer people *wanting* to kill Americans. I'm philosophical about the fact that the government I get to vote for is little more than puppets on the strings of an American government I don't get to vote for (and to a lesser extent the Chinese government). Many people are a lot less philosphical about that than me. Many people think that's a violation worth killing for.
      I don't agree with them - but I don't pretend that they don't exist and I sure don't pretend that their true motivation is anything *other* than that.

      The only real way to protect yourselves is to leave them alone.

      Maybe there is something to be said for being where you are invited (like Japan) - though I wouldn't blame you if you said "We go nowhere at all - even where we are begged to go". But going anywhere uninvited is a recipe for retribution - and those who lack the resources to face you in open war (i.e. pretty much everybody) will use guerilla tactics instead. Only when anybody who isn't white and American uses those they are called terrorists. I'm still unclear why when white Americans do it they are "patriots" or "militias" instead. How those idiots in Oregon right now differs from any other terrorists is utterly beyond me. If anything their crime is significantly worse - they are not only terrorists - they are committing high treason as well.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    91. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Just of the top of my head:
      Nicaraqua, Panama, Brazil.

      There really are dozens, but you can google the rest.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    92. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      No, there is no such thing as a minor country. Every country is equally important because they all consist of the same thing: people - who all have equal claim to basic rights and liberties.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    93. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Not only did we deploy them, but we did so against predominantly non-military targets, killing 129,000 civilians or about 1/3 the population. Not included in this total is the untold suffering of hundreds of thousands who survived the initial bombing, but were maimed or otherwise wounded, usually, severely. Nor for the large increase in cancers and other health issues for those two cities that persist, even today.

      While that is all sad, and I feel for them...

      The United States is not at fault, the leadership of Imperial Japan is, for starting the war in the first place and for not surrendering when it was plainly obvious they had lost.

      Under no reasonable estimate from would 2 million US lives been at risk if the bombs had not been dropped.

      I never said 2 million US lives, I said 2 million lives... That includes Japanese, Russian, Chinese, and others who would have died. Keep in mind that Russia had just invaded, that would have continued and many more in Northern China would have died as well.

      Many historians argue that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not about ending the war with Japan or protecting American lives.

      Yes, many people love to play Monday Morning Quarterback... which is easy to do... on Monday Morning... Those historians weren't around then, weren't fighting then, and hadn't suffered through the war...

      You have to view the events in the time they happened, which is a common mistake made by many people passing judgement over events that happened during another time in another place.

      The irony is that the carpet bombing of Tokyo with napalm killed more people than the nuclear weapons did, yet no one complains about that.

      It was simple to point outthe hypocrisy of being against N.Korea using nuclear weapons against their enemies when that is exactly what the US did sixty years earlier.

      And that point is wrong. The reasons for the use of the weapons are different. Part of the problem comes from people in today's generation who don't want to call a spade what it is... a spade... Right and wrong, moral and immoral... The "everything is relative" concept will be the end of us if we don't buy a clue.

      North Korea is an evil regime, the United States Government is not. We're not all sunny roses and not perfect, but if you put those two against each other, we're the clear and obvious superior nation. The very fact that I can have this conversation with you on a public forum is proof enough of that.

    94. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The US military contribution to WWI was not large, but the increasing numbers of US troops changed the strategic situation dramatically, as Germany had to win fast or lose eventually. That was part of the reasoning behind the Ludendorff offensives in 1918.

      The US did not happily trade with the Nazis during WWII. Earlier US law would have forbidden the US from trading with any belligerent, but Roosevelt changed that to a "cash and carry" plan: anybody could buy weapons from the US if they paid in dollars and took them home in their own ships. There was doubtless trade with the Nazis anyway, but it was unofficial and not a policy of the US.

      To a reasonable approximation the Soviets defeated the German Army. Western armies got to be roughly as effective against the German Army in 1945, when Germany was already defeated. It's about as true to say the Western Allies defeated the Luftwaffe. The West defeated the German Navy and, late in the war, devastated the German economy. The West contributed significantly to the Soviet war effort, for example providing something like 20% of their tanks and a large part of their soft vehicles, as well as aircraft and assorted types of materiel (like waterproof field telephone lines).

      The US did defeat Japan, with help from Australia. That helped a whole lot of people.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    95. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for your reasoned response.

      "The idea of it was routed in truth however... our ideas and our ideals are in fact superior to most others, at the time the term was coined."
      You do realize exactly who coined the Term? He wasn't American. He was Stalin. He was arguing _against_ the concept. He believed in Russian Exceptionalism.

      "Nothing wrong with what Merkel is doing, she isn't sending armies anywhere or mass killing anyone."
      That was my point- a Europe under German control, but without the bloodshed. The EU wasn't even a German concept at first. Germany Won the Long War.

      ****************
      (BTW, I don't believe that the Norks have Nukes, for reasons that I don't, or can't, go in to.)

      "Your belief is not required, they do, everyone agrees that they do, even the US Government doesn't deny it. You thinking they don't doesn't account for much."
      ***************

      A Nuke, in International terms, is a reliable Nuclear Explosive, with a Delivery System. North Korea has had three Fizzles in a row, buried in Mountains. Enough said.

      Again, thank you.
      BTW, buried in all of the Nesting was the comment that I was originally responding to, and should be taken in context; I should have quoted:
      "...350 million people get to vote on the destiny of 7 billion..."
      silentcoder got modded -1. That was unfair.

    96. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      No. Only nations with nukes and their own currency are truly sovereign.

      The rest are all minor countries.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    97. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      At the time it formed, the US was certainly exceptional. It's taken some weird forms, and has slipped a lot. Currently, US citizens don't seem freer than many European citizens.

      The decision to fight Germany until victory was actually made by Chamberlain, and Churchill was picked for PM partly because he was going to carry it out. I see no evidence that Hitler would have made an acceptable peace at any time before defeat. Hitler was willing to consider terms for a British surrender, but I doubt that would have held the Empire together. The surrender terms would probably have made Britain incapable of waging war later.

      As far as I've been able to figure, Germany and Japan murdered people at close to twice the rate of the Soviet Union or China, and they were far more aggressive. The Soviet Union expanded its power that much only because Germany attacked. Communism gained a lot of legitimacy in the rest of Europe because there were German oppressors to oppose, and the Communists were usually the most effective resistance. WWII ended with most of the important parts of Europe, geopolitically, on our side of the line, and there was no fighting in Europe. Destroying Nazi Germany was necessary, and we could live with the Soviet Union.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    98. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to Communist era Romania. Or Bulgaria. Or East Germany. They all looked like perfect police states, small to middle powers, and deeply repressive. Nothing changed there until the population got fed up and overcame individual fear with mass action.

      Yes the North Koreans actions make sense from their viewpoint. The problem is their viewpoint is based upon a fundamentally flawed precept, which is that the US together with SK is going to invade. No, they won't. There's no strategic payoff for doing so.

      Also, one must compare the tone and tenor of official communications and actions. I don't always approve of SK behaviour or broadcast messages. However NK actions and broadcasts are invariably of the over-the-top, veins throbbing in the forehead, "Death to America and South Korea!" variety. NK propaganda virtually defines bombast.

    99. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      When was the last time US was "called upon when there is a major issue taking place" by governments that are actually in charge of the place in question?

    100. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You did read the part before and after that paragraph?

      "...Nonetheless, the invasion was highly criticized by the governments in Canada, Trinidad and Tobago, and the United Kingdom. The United Nations General Assembly condemned it as "a flagrant violation of international law"..."

      Reagan was a Bully, sticking his nose in an area that he had no business being. Unless of course, you believe that the Monroe Doctrine still applies- the Western Hemisphere is the playground of the United States, and they have sole say in who gets to play.

    101. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      If you keep ignoring candidates because they're "not likely to even be on the ballot", guess what? They won't be on the ballot. It's called a self-fulfilling prophecy.

      If you're a registered Republican, vote Rand in the primaries. If you're a registered Democrat, vote Sanders. If it's possible in your state, register as both and vote both.

    102. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The US used two nukes immediately after they were developed, and they caused the Japanese to surrender. Exactly why they surrendered is still not completely known, but one speculation is that it allowed the Japanese to admit defeat while saving a bit of face. The Imperial rescript announcing the surrender to the Japanese people specified the nukes as a primary reason, everything else being developments not necessarily to Japan's advantage.

      The bombs were used on military targets, although with those things there was a tremendous amount of collateral damage. Hiroshima in particular was the headquarters for the Japanese defense of Kyushu, and Nagasaki was a major port with a lot of war industry. We'll never know under what circumstances Japan would have surrendered, but it appears that it was the second nuke that pushed them to it. After the immediate losses, there were about 1900 additional cancer deaths, and no increase in birth defects. The bombs were both airbursts, and left relatively little fallout.

      Truman's advisers were split on whether to use the nukes. The blockade was costing US ships to Japanese air action. The Air Force thought it could force surrender in a few months, which is highly dubious (air attacks had basically destroyed the Japanese economy already). The US was planning to invade, and it would have been extremely bloody, and the Japanese planned to kill Allied prisoners of war in that event.

      The war was not effectively over. Japan was not capable of any significant military action, but it still controlled vast stretches of territory, including western China, Indochina, Malaya, and most of what is now Indonesia, and was ruling those territories in brutal and inept fashion. The millions and millions of people in those areas were dying pretty fast. My estimate is that not using the nukes and delaying surrender by two months would probably have killed more civilians than it saved.

      Different historians say different things, and not every idea somebody publishes gets accepted. Impressing Stalin might have been part of the reasons, but it was aimed at ending the war. If the US had wound up invading, and had heavy casualties, and it was known that Truman had refused to use a very powerful weapon, there would have been a lot of public protest.

      So, there are no circumstances in the world like the ones when the US nuked Japan, and the US hasn't used one in anger for over 70 years, despite being in shooting wars. The US is not going to drop another one.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    103. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There's this friendly country to the South of them, that they really don't need aircraft or ships or missiles to inflict a LOT of damage on.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    104. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by nytes · · Score: 1

      Those are clearly outliers and if you think the U.S. is ready to give up strategic positions and economic beachheads in places like Turkey, Germany, etc then you have lost your mind. Maritime pre-positioning and the like scaled way up couldn't come close to replacing those lost positions.

      You don't think the U.S. would respect German, Turkish, or South Korean sovereignty if they demanded that we leave?

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    105. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by crow_t_robot · · Score: 1

      I believe that if the idea were ever floated that one of these countries would request the U.S. to pack up and leave then the old carrot and stick diplomacy would begin to take place using trade and other levers to turn the screws to make sure this never even materialized as a real demand.

    106. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by clovis · · Score: 0

      Just of the top of my head:
      Nicaraqua, Panama, Brazil.

      There really are dozens, but you can google the rest.

      I already went to google, and no, I didn't get to even a whole dozen of elected governments overthrown by the USA and replaced by a puppet government.
      Your assertion of "dozens" is false.

    107. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Thank you for your reasoned response.

      I try... the line between reason and snark on the Interwebs can be thin sometimes. :)

      You do realize exactly who coined the Term? He wasn't American. He was Stalin. He was arguing _against_ the concept. He believed in Russian Exceptionalism.

      Err... Not really, it predates him by 100 years or so...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      That was my point- a Europe under German control, but without the bloodshed.

      Sure, but the other nations signed up willingly, and can leave willingly.

      Or they can win by having a better economy. No one is forcing Greece to stay in the Euro.

      A Nuke, in International terms, is a reliable Nuclear Explosive, with a Delivery System. North Korea has had three Fizzles in a row, buried in Mountains. Enough said.

      I don't know about you, but I don't think I'll get out of trouble with the government if I have a nuclear warhead and my excuse is, "well, I don't have a missile to deliver it, so I really don't have a nuke".

      While their nukes didn't work as well as they had hoped, they still got a 5 kiloton explosion, give or take. That isn't a fizzle if you're standing even remotely close to it, that is a pretty darn big boom.

      "...350 million people get to vote on the destiny of 7 billion..."

      The irony to that is that the US Government doesn't really get into much with a whole lot of nations. When is the last time we got into Chile's business? Or how about something more remote, like Madagascar, Monaco, or Fiji?

      The reality is that we don't really care what most of the people in the world are doing. If you have oil, or you threaten our interests, then we care.

    108. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by nytes · · Score: 1

      I'm still unclear why when white Americans do it they are "patriots" or "militias" instead. How those idiots in Oregon right now differs from any other terrorists is utterly beyond me. If anything their crime is significantly worse - they are not only terrorists - they are committing high treason as well.

      At the moment, they are a bunch of yahoos starving themselves in a cold building (they forgot to bring food to their occupation). No one's been hurt, yet.

      I wouldn't be surprised, if a single round gets fired by them, that they get charged with domestic terrorism.

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
    109. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      I see no evidence that Hitler would have made an acceptable peace at any time before defeat. Hitler was willing to consider terms for a British surrender, but I doubt that would have held the Empire together. The surrender terms would probably have made Britain incapable of waging war later.

      Then you have read a very different version of history than I have... and WWII is one of my better subjects...

      Hitler offered a deal to the British, he didn't even ask for anything. All he wanted was for Britain to accept Hitler as ruler of mainland Europe, in return, he would stop fighting them and would respect all British Empire territories around the world.

      Hitler didn't want to destroy the British Empire, he knew that if he did, America and Japan would be in a very good position to pickup the pieces, he for sure was not. Russia was his real target, he only invaded France for the same reason that the Kaiser did in 1914, for fear of a 2 front war. He needed to remove France as a threat before attacking Russia. Keep in mind, his terms to France were pretty reasonable. He wanted Northern France for security, but France could keep the South, and could keep their fleet and all overseas territories.

      As far as I've been able to figure, Germany and Japan murdered people at close to twice the rate of the Soviet Union or China, and they were far more aggressive.

      The Soviet Union killed far more people than Germany did. It is possible if you add up both Germany and Japan, their numbers are higher than the USSR, but Stalin was by far the most ruthless murderer in WWII.

      Destroying Nazi Germany was necessary, and we could live with the Soviet Union.

      That is what you've been taught for many years, that is how the history was written. Hitler wanted an alliance with the West, not war. He tried with Chamberlin, his goal was to keep the West out of the war so he could fight Russia. He didn't turn to invade France until after France had declared war on him, and even then not for almost a year.

      Don't get me wrong, Hitler was evil, but don't think that we somehow couldn't have lived with him and destroyed the USSR. We for sure could have.

    110. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      North Korea doesn't want a war with America or South Korea. They know they would be wiped out in a matter of days.

      I'm guessing you mean a nuclear war, because invading Best Korea would certainly not take a few days. Don't forget the Korean war and the problematic geography of the country.

      I remember the Korean war.
      The geography wasn't so much a problem as the 1.3 million Chinese soldiers.

    111. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      You are discussing practical influence. I am discussing philosophy. Which is actually rather more apropos since the topic pf the threat is American exceptionalism versus non-interventionism.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    112. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      That does depend on how you define "overthrow". But I'm sure you feel all warm and fuzzy now because you think its less than I do and yet fail to realize that everything you were taught America stands for, everything you think makes you special was revealed as a complete farce the day it was more than 0.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    113. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Why do they need to fire a round ? An armed occupation is an act of war in and off itself.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    114. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and a substantial amount of that is written by South Korea, which is still at war with the North.

      I think it bears repeating here that the Korean War ended with an armistice and not a formal peace treaty due almost entirely to the stubbornness and recalcitrance of the North Koreans and their unwillingness to admit that their invasion had failed to achieve unification of the Korean peninsula under their control by force. In their minds at least, an armistice was only a temporary setback whereas a peace treaty and a formal end to the war was tantamount to admitting the failure of their original enterprise and a massive lose of face.

    115. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 1

      The word is Capice (or capisci if you're speaking italian properly)..

      --


      He tried to kill me with a forklift!
    116. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      North Korea is an evil regime, the United States Government is not.

      Most people living in a small place called "the rest of the world" would disagree with the second half. You still have a few places on you side, like Europe - and even that is more a case of having the politicians (who we already consider evil) on your side.

    117. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      And that threat is why he wants da bomb. So you do not invade him.

      But a "threat" because he would attack? Please. He knows exactly that he might get a rocket off the ground and with some luck and good fortune might hit something, only to have the whole of NKor go up in a mushroom cloud.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    118. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny comment, considering you spelled "capiche" wrong. It can properly be spelled "capisce", "capiche" or "capische" in English.

    119. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Coren22 · · Score: 0

      That is a good point. I would like to challenge silentcoder to please point to New Mexico on a map and name its capital.

      Please point to that phrase.

      An AC I replied to used that phrase, I did not.

      And nothing you won't let them do to you or your government should you allow your government to do them.

      I have no control over individual choices the government makes. The US is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. We vote for people, not issues, despite what the media says. I can't directly tell anyone what to do or not to do, I can let my rep and senators know my opinion, but they will ignore it.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    120. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Coren22 · · Score: 0

      Exactly, terrorism consists of creating terror. Currently, they are not committing terror, they are holed up in a building. They didn't bomb a building, or shoot a bunch of people.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    121. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      If Hitler offered a peace to Britain, could you provide a reference? I don't have one. There's a speech of his in the Reichstag that some people considered as offering peace, but it reads more like terms of surrender to me. We know that Hitler admired the British Empire, but he was more concerned with the immediate task of making sure the Brits couldn't bother him again.

      I fail to see that any offer that takes the most heavily industrialized and richest part of a country, including its capital and central city, is "pretty reasonable". The French were able to keep their colonies and fleet because Germany couldn't do anything about them. They had limited independence in Vichy France because overrunning it would cause the French troops and ships abroad to turn fully to the Allies. Once this was no longer a bother (read when the West invaded Morocco and Algeria, so they would be Allied anyway), the Germans quickly overran Vichy.

      The competition for "most ruthless murderer" is pretty tight, and I don't care about the winner. However, Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan were murdering people at a much higher rate than the Soviets. The Soviets got their higher total by doing it for longer. If we'd had a way to give the Soviet Union only as much time as Nazi Germany got, the Germans would have murdered lots more people. My best estimates, which are going to be rough, is that Stalin was murdering something like a million people a year, while the Nazis were just shy of double that.

      The fact is that Chamberlain was in favor of using Nazi Germany as a bulwark against Communism, at first, along with lots of other prominent Western politicians. Chamberlain thought he could deal with Hitler to limit his aggressions. He was pretty sure he'd created a stable situation by pressuring the Czechs to give in over the Sudetenland, since Hitler had promised him that was the last territorial move he was making in Europe. Hitler was satisfied with the situation, Germany was between the Commies and the West, and all seemed good.

      It wasn't that long afterwards that Germany took the rest of Czechoslovakia, and Chamberlain started turning against him. It seemed prudent to make an alliance with the Soviet Union, and Britain and France did that in such a lackadaisical manner that Stalin gave up and signed with Hitler. Finally, Hitler attacked Poland, after being warned that that meant war with the West, and Hitler went ahead and conquered the country anyway. Chamberlain declared war, and later made the decision that Britain was not going to make a separate peace with Germany.

      Chamberlain was the sort of British prime minister that Hitler wanted: one that agreed with him about Communism and thought Nazi Germany was serving a good purpose. Chamberlain was willing to let Hitler have Austria, and parts of Czechoslovakia. Britain in 1935 had signed a naval treaty with Germany that removed the Versailles limitations, without consulting France. If anyone was willing to work with Hitler, it was Chamberlain.

      And, yet, before the invasion of France (which had been planned for as soon as possible after Poland, and kept slipping because of the weather), Chamberlain took a hard stand against Hitler. Hitler had managed to convert at least a lukewarm friend into an implacable enemy.

      There was no stopping Hitler's aggression, except by war. The Soviet Union was forced into a war, took what it could get out of it, and then waged no further European wars, and only minor ones with anybody except China. We can live with a threatening country much more easily than with an attacking country.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    122. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      I dont hear you dissagreeing with the conclusion though. Just feeling helpless about achieving it.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    123. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by clovis · · Score: 1

      That does depend on how you define "overthrow". But I'm sure you feel all warm and fuzzy now because you think its less than I do and yet fail to realize that everything you were taught America stands for, everything you think makes you special was revealed as a complete farce the day it was more than 0.

      And now you're reading my mind and also incorrectly. You don't know me and should not attempt to guess what I know, what I was taught, or what I believe.
      I don't really care about feeling warm and fuzzy.
      I care about numbers.

      If you had said "numerous" or even "lots", I would have passed on by.
      However, "Dozens" is a number and although it is kind of vague, it sets a floor that is too large.
      No one would think "two dozen" when told "dozens" - the floor would be three dozen - that's over 36 countries having an elected leader overthrown by the USA and replaced by a military dictator. There are only about 200 countries in the world. Do you really want to defend stating that nearly a fifth of the countries in the world have been overthrown by the USA?

      Numbers matter.

    124. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I don't agree that I have much say in the running of my country. I vote, but frankly as I live in a state that always goes blue, my vote is less than wasted, so I always vote third party as a protest against both the parties.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    125. Re:Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they had a working large-scale bomb, the delivery vehicle matters. Fire it with an ICBM East to South Africa (or wherever needed) and detonate it in low orbit above Kansas. The EMP would cover the lower 48 and cause massive problems. Without directly taking a single life. And, none of the defenses we have are aimed at shooting down missiles trying not to hit us, so it would be the perfect plan, so long as they can get a Tsar Bomba and missile.

    126. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many historians argue that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not about ending the war with Japan or protecting American lives. The ware was effectively over prior to that, even though there had not been an official surrender, yet.

      You are an ignorant bigot. The war was over, to everyone but those fighting in Japan. Japan had surrendered many times. Terms like "no reparations, no change of government, no trials for war crimes" were rejected. Those "surrenders" were akin to a cease fire. We'd have ended up with a Korea-like situation with a Japan everyone's still at war with.

      Hiroshima was a purely military target. It was hit. Of course, with a single large bomb, you won't be surgical about the strike.

      Japan's response was to claim it was a fake. The military communications indicate the military told the civilian leaders that there is no such thing as an atomic bomb, and the destruction in Hiroshima was a large conventional bombing, like Dresden, with some dirty bombs at the end, blowing up nuclear material to fool the Geiger counters into thinking it was nuclear.

      When Japan thought it was conventional bombs, not nukes, they surrendered again, still insisting the military and civilian leaders stay in power and unpunished, and things like China (or parts thereof) staying under Japanese rule. Nagasaki was about the time the witness reports from Hiroshima were coming in, indicating that it was a single bomb. After Japan had more proof that nukes were possible and being used one every few days, they figured they couldn't win. Before the nukes, at least according to the military memos, the civilian government was being told a military victory was possible. Not conquering the world, but defending Japan and launching strikes from there, holding Manchuria, and all that.

      It took the nukes to change their minds. Probably when they expected the next one to hit the government and end the war, something no conventional attack could have done.

      The first ones were small. Total, the two nuclear bombs added up to about 1% of the total explosive energy released in WWII bombing. As bad as we claim they are now, there were almost trivial in the total damage done in WWII.

    127. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM made money tallying dead Jews. That's one of the prime examples of the US trading with the Nazis.

    128. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you count that Eisenhower invaded Vietnam to overthrow the government before the elections could take place? And part of it is that many of the CIA actions are still classified. And can we count the failed ones? We have plenty. We have tried to overthrow Russia, most of the middle east, parts of Africa, and much of South America.

      That the government lies to us about what they did and when doesn't make it untrue.

    129. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      If Hitler offered a peace to Britain, could you provide a reference?

      Not off the top of my head, but I do know that the Germans reached out to the British directly via the embassy in Switzerland and offered peace, which the British turned down.

      Hitler had no interest in fighting the British, he simply wanted them to stop fighting with him, if they did so, he would have left them alone. If you read his book, you'll know that his target was always Russia, since long before he even took power.

      Well, Russia and the Jews, but that is another issue...

      The Soviet Union was forced into a war, took what it could get out of it, and then waged no further European wars, and only minor ones with anybody except China.

      Kinda hard to wage further wars under the threat of nuclear attack. :)

    130. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could it be said that every time US start considering the removal of the bases, Russia starts making disturbing noises? How else could Moscow be able to keep control of the country if there weren't a constant foreign threat to point to, after all..

    131. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by clovis · · Score: 1

      Did you count that Eisenhower invaded Vietnam to overthrow the government before the elections could take place? And part of it is that many of the CIA actions are still classified. And can we count the failed ones? We have plenty. We have tried to overthrow Russia, most of the middle east, parts of Africa, and much of South America.

      That the government lies to us about what they did and when doesn't make it untrue.

      Try to remember that this is the assertion that I oppose:
      "fund a coup to replace that leader with a puppet military dictator like youve done dozens of times since world war 2"

      There are not US funded coups of elected leader "dozens of times since world war 2". Dozens? That is simply NOT true.
      Want to prove me wrong? Then post a list of dozens of elected leaders that were overthrown by US funded coups.
      And stop responding with two or three names. A dozen is twelve. Dozens is some multiple of twelve or more.

      As a side issue, Eisenhower did NOT invade Vietnam. That is simply untrue. Did not happen.
      I do count Vietnam although the coup overthrew Diem had NO USA involvement, we (Kennedy administration) knew about it and promised to not interfere. (Diem was the guy that canceled the election you mentioned)
      I was a college student in the 1960/70's, so yeah, the subject of Vietnam did come up from time to time and I, along with everyone I knew, was and am very interested in what happened there.
      As for my being fooled by government lies, you may be surprised to learn this, but the government is no the only source of information here. College professors don't always echo the government's line. The press in the USA back then most certainly did not parrot the government's story either. The local SDS chapter did not echo the government's line. And guess what? It turns out that you can get news from other countries press even back then before the Internet.
      Please don't try to guess what I believe, or what I know, or what side I'm on in these things. You Don't Know Me.

      Once again, the assertion that I object to is the "USA overthrew dozens of elected leaders and replaced them with puppet military dictators since WWII".
      I'm not saying they never happened, I know they did. I was around when they happened.

      But the operative terms here are dozens, elected leaders, puppet governments.

      Wave your hands in the air, babble about secret coups, whatever, but until you produce a list of dozens of overthrown countries, your assertion is false.

    132. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      http://dictionary.reference.co...

      Numbers matter less than the meaning they are intended to convey. Mathematics is a language first and foremost.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    133. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by clovis · · Score: 1

      http://dictionary.reference.co...

      Numbers matter less than the meaning they are intended to convey. Mathematics is a language first and foremost.

      Numbers absolutely do matter.
      So now you claiming it was hyperbole? That you were exaggerating for effect and made up the number dozens.
      OK, I'll buy that you now claim it was a false statement of exaggeration for effect.
      Leave off the numbers next time and just say " lots" or " many times"; because then it would be a true statement.

      And yeah, numbers do matter. This is a tech site, not a safe space for the math-impaired.

    134. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I know what Hitler's priorities were (killing Jews seems to have been the top one), Had Poland turned out differently, either allied with Germany or with France and Britain not declaring war, Germany would have continued East.

      I'll have to dig into that peace offer, what it was, and how sincere it was, from a browser not behind a web filter. Thanks for the details; I think that's enough to get started on.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    135. Re: Just wait until they can deliver it by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      If I may make a suggestion...

      http://www.amazon.com/Diplomac...

      Henry Kissinger wrote a book called Diplomacy that has a decently large section on WWII, and you might find another point of view there.

      Another book:

      http://www.amazon.com/Churchil...

      Buchanan argues citing F.H. Hinsley, John Lukacs, and Alan Clark, Hitler's peace offers to Britain in the summer of 1940 were real, and Churchill was wrong to refuse them.

  3. Glorious leader show us the way by liqu1d · · Score: 3, Funny

    By his divine power he created hydrogen from his bowel and light it setting the world alight in his glorious blaze. Praise the leader and death to the west.

    1. Re:Glorious leader show us the way by lorinc · · Score: 1

      Always remembers me this scene from iron sky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    2. Re:Glorious leader show us the way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oblig Interview

    3. Re:Glorious leader show us the way by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Always remembers me this

      Thanks a lot, it's going to take at least an hour for that twitch on my face to subside.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  4. Remind you of anything? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reminds me of a song from this guy... goo.gl/qXOw3m

  5. I have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > the test is bound to figure in the American presidential campaign, where several candidates have already cited the North's nuclear experimentation as evidence of American weakness ...

    I propose we send those "several candidates" to North Korea to "fix" the situation. They may take a handgun and/or an assault rifle along if they prefer so.

    1. Re: I have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good idea!

      America thrusts it's chest out and struts around every time it perceives a threat. That's not true strength.

    2. Re: I have an idea! by gfxguy · · Score: 2

      They detonate a hydrogen bomb and explicitly say they are doing this because they consider the U.S. an enemy. Are you seriously suggesting that's not threatening enough?

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    3. Re: I have an idea! by dywolf · · Score: 0

      Are you scared of all lil children that make threats they can't back up?

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    4. Re: I have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Both the US and South Korea are STILL formally at war with them. Are you seriously suggesting that neither is their enemy?

    5. Re: I have an idea! by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      Then we all agree... they are a threat. So what's the problem?

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    6. Re: I have an idea! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Each new nation with bombs is one more vector to accidental black market bombs. That alone is sufficient.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    7. Re: I have an idea! by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      "lil" children don't have nuclear weapons. Yet. NK does.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    8. Re: I have an idea! by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      NK does

      h Only in the same sense that Saddam had WMD - no one can tell the glorious leader that they don't and live.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    9. Re: I have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This situation can be fixed easily. To come back to the same number of nations with bombs as before NK had it, another one can just destroy all of its arsenal. The US does not need anyone else or any military intervention for that, we can just destroy all of our own bombs, to do a nation_with_bombs-- and reassure you.

    10. Re: I have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have a pop gun. They have very low yield production, and their bombs don't always work. They are saying they are an enemy of the largest nuclear arsenal and the largest military force in the world. Saddam didn't use any WMDs. If these people do, US policy is to respond in kind. Nobody is going to say anything if we turn the entire country to radioactive glass in retaliation. They are not a threat. They cannot be a threat. If they ever do become a threat, they will shortly cease to exist. Because that's how you deal with threats.

      You're a coward, or an idiot, or both.

  6. Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by dywolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We have sniffer/detector craft for just this reason.
    I wait until we hear confirmation before believing anything NK says.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    1. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by sittingnut · · Score: 2

      seismic activity was confirmed by usgs (a 5.1 magnitude earthquake in the vicinity of a known Pyongyang nuclear site) before nk announcement actually .

      generally speaking while nk uses grandiloquent propagandist language, they don't lie about actual events like this.

    2. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have sniffer/detector craft for just this reason.
      I wait until we hear confirmation before believing anything NK says.

      This. There are unique byproducts that are detectable and typically a unique seismic signature. This announcement was brought to you by the organization that announced the discovery of a unicorn den...

    3. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If true, it's quite frightening. H bombs currently require multiple small A bombs to triggter, and the bomb casing is also typically made out of non-weapons grade uranium which reflects and focuses the A-bomb blasts onto the tritium and deuterium core. The result is far, far more radioactive uranium blown as vapor into the atmosphere than original US bomb designers were willing to admit, and a far larger radioactive fallout zone than the US was willing to admit before The Progressive published H-bomb details back in 1979.

      I remember that article when published: it was quite frightening, and revealed a number of long-published lies about how H-bombs were "cleaner" than A-bombs.

    4. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's quite likely that an underground test will not release any detectable byproducts.

    5. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by thermopile · · Score: 2
      The news reports are saying it was between a magnitude 4.8 and 5.1 on the M scale (kinda like the Richter scale).

      This is remarkably similar to the 2013 test, which was also magnitude 5.1. The USGS has a nice summary plot of the 3 previous tests. All else being equal (namely, the coupling between the test tunnel and the surrounding rock), it looks like this test was about as big of a "pop" as the 2013 test.

      --

      "Diplomacy is something you do until you find a rock." --Richard Pound

    6. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      I remember that article when published: it was quite frightening, and revealed a number of long-published lies about how H-bombs were "cleaner" than A-bombs.

      One H-bomb is dirtier than one A-bomb. But if you realize the same explosive power with (multiple) A-bombs, then you get something dirtier than a single H-bomb. So, for the damage it does, the H-bomb is cleaner.

    7. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by Quantum+gravity · · Score: 3, Informative

      A real hydrogen bomb is much more difficult to produce than an A-bomb. Experts are saying that what NK might have done is mixed a hydrogen isotope with a normal A-bomb. That would technically make it a hydrogen bomb, but not a true fusion bomb that starts a massive fusion reaction.

    8. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by kwiecmmm · · Score: 2

      Early satellite data is saying it was just an atomic bomb, the kind they have tested previously.

      Some experts' very early assessment was that North Korea's device may not have been a true hydrogen bomb, and might instead have been a simpler fission device that had been "boosted."

      NPR Story

    9. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We have sniffer/detector craft for just this reason.
      I wait until we hear confirmation before believing anything NK says.

      Either it was a fission bomb or a fusion bomb. Either way they have detonated a nuclear weapon. In general, the US government only publicly releases classified intelligence like that when it serves the president's foreign policy interests or to serve some other lower level institutional or political interests.

      US foreign policy is pretty much to ignore this fucking lunatic and just sit back and hope he suffers an unfortunate accident when a more rational cabal of tyrannical dictators can take over, so we will pretty much slow play any public release of intelligence and create doubt about what actually happened for weeks and weeks and months even. I don't disagree with that approach, but the "truth" usually suffers a bit when the public is misled on all sides.

      So if you are waiting for US confirmation, then you had better get ready to wait.

    10. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      The reports I was hearing contained a lot of skepticism. There are a lot of claims that it was likely just an A-bomb artificially boosted to make the explosion bigger so it looked like an H-bomb.

      Personally, I don't find that particularly reassuring. Whatever it was, it registered 5.1 on the Richter scale, which is more than enough to ruin the day of a lot of the 25.6 million people in Seoul.

    11. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      seismic activity was confirmed by

      We know they blew something up. What we don't know, is if it was actually a H-Bomb or not.
      Despite what some people are saying, it's not really easy to make a "low yield H-Bomb". Basically an H-Bomb is a regular fission bomb with some extra shit strapped onto it that gives it the extra (power of 10 greater) bang. So the best guess we have right now is that either they just popped a fission bomb and are claiming it's an H-Bomb for political reasons, or they tried popping a H-bomb but it didn't really work properly so they only got a fission bomb out of it.

    12. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by dywolf · · Score: 1

      I don't doubt they've detonated something atomic, they've done that before.
      The question, and my skepticism, is whether it actually was a thermonuclear device.

      Given that the seismic readings are pretty much the same as the last one, i rather doubt it,
      and think it more likely they just repeated the last one.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    13. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Not so... There ARE byproducts of nuclear fission that should be observable.

      Can you say Neutrinos?

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    14. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      You even quoted text that says it "may not" have been an H-bomb, and "might" have been a simpler bomb. So, no, they are not saying that it was a smaller bomb, just that it "might" have been. If you go that NPR story and click on the link to that "expert's early assessment" tweet, you will notice words like "doubt" and "likely". And that NPR article doesn't say anything about satellite data about the current test either, that must have come from a source you didn't link to.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    15. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The previous A-bomb they detonated also generated a 5.1 earthquake. So this is more or less the same device. If there are changes at all, they're more likely operations-related (working toward making it a usable weapon rather than something that takes two years of prep for each boom).

    16. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      seismic activity was confirmed by usgs (a 5.1 magnitude earthquake in the vicinity of a known Pyongyang nuclear site) before nk announcement actually .

      generally speaking while nk uses grandiloquent propagandist language, they don't lie about actual events like this.

      Or, maybe the US bombed Pyongyang and this is a cover story? How would anyone know?

    17. Re:Meh, I'll wait for confirmation by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      A long time ago, there was a magazine (I think called "The Progressive" or something like that) that wrote an article about the mechanics, to try to demystify the things. One comment I saw was that they revealed three officially secret things, two of which were already well known, and one that they got wrong. A nuclear weapon is usually done by imploding a plutonium shell onto a beryllium core. Banging the U-235 together also works, and makes a much simpler bomb, but weapons-grade uranium is very difficult to produce. (What the magazine got wrong is that only one nuclear explosion is used, rather than two.

      Once the fissionables are in a supercritical state, and held together as long as possible, they emit radiation. This radiation is reflected by a surrounding shell onto the fusion stuff, which is usually lithium deuteride but can have tritium instead of some or all of the lithium (small bombs work better with tritium), which is compressed and heated and starts a fusion reaction. This yields a lot of energy, but also a lot of fast neutrons. If that reflection shell is made of U-238, the neutrons will cause a whole lot of those atoms to fission, making the explosion much bigger To make a much cleaner, but about half as powerful, bomb, it can be made of something like tungsten.

      The "neutron bomb" being debated heavily at the time was basically the least powerful fusion bomb they could make, about half a kiloton (although the equivalent of 500 tons of TNT going off is still a pretty big bang), while letting the fast neutrons escape. It was intended as an area anti-tank weapon, but could be fairly easily defeated by an extra light layer of protection.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  7. They couldn't do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Without the complicity of China. The idea that China is a bystander in this is a joke.

    1. Re:They couldn't do it by taiwanjohn · · Score: 2

      Do you really think the Chinese likes having a nuclear-armed, inscrutable wack-job on their doorstep? They put up with NK because they like having a buffer between themselves and SK. I just hope they have some sort of 'kill switch' to eliminate the threat (for their own sake) in case he gets too far out of hand.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    2. Re:They couldn't do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Do you really think China wants a large, unified, free, prosperous democracy on its border? It prefers a derelict.

    3. Re:They couldn't do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They share a 4000 mile border with one. They don't consider them a threat.

      They also built (or are building) a system of bridges to two others, making them a 20 minute drive away.

    4. Re:They couldn't do it by bfpierce · · Score: 1

      Honestly I don't think China has any fucks to give about NK or SK on their borders. Neither of them are serious threats to anything they do.

    5. Re:They couldn't do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? China doesn't have a 4000 mile border with *anyone*. The longest land border, at 4677 km (2906 statute miles) is with Mongolia.

      Hell, the non-Alaska part of the Canada-USA border is a few miles shy of 4000 miles.

      Only Russia-Kazakhstan is a continuous land border of more than 4000 miles (it's 4254 miles).

    6. Re:They couldn't do it by taiwanjohn · · Score: 1

      Except for the fact that South Korea is host to about 28,000 US troops, you're right.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    7. Re:They couldn't do it by Talderas · · Score: 2

      China doesn't have any border with a country that approaches 4,000 miles. The longest is 2,906 miles with Mongolia.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    8. Re:They couldn't do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course they wouldn't LIKE to have that which is why none of us should believe any threat from NK at all. Specifically I have little doubt that China knows EXACTLY what NK's capabilities are or aren't. China & no one else can end the stupidity that is NK overnight (or practically overnight) if they wanted to. China backs NK as their only 'ally'. If China actually went to the NK leaders & ordered them to 'stop this stupidity now' I have no doubt it would end. Ultimately we should be putting pressure on China to end this stupidity not NK. We should be going to the Chinese leaders & make it clear to them that we have 0 interest in attacking anyone, invading anyone or otherwise messing with their sovereign right to exist other than working to provide proper 'rights' & a good life to their citizens.

      China is nominally communist & we do a booming business with them daily without anyone really caring one way or the other, the same can occur with NK, their leaders can maintain their rich life style all they want & we won't bother them provided they stop the stupidity of threatening the world...In any case this is China's mess to clean up, until we put pressure on them to do so this stupidity will continue.

  8. Good for Them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All countries should have equal arsenals of freedom. For our freedoms.

    1. Re:Good for Them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A nuclear armed world is a polite world.

    2. Re:Good for Them! by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

      Try gifting a nuke to the jolly jihadis and u'll know the definition of politeness .

    3. Re:Good for Them! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      This assumes that for all of the actors involved, nuclear obliteration is the worst possible option.

      It might not be a valid assumption.

    4. Re:Good for Them! by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      If you haven't noticed, Pakistan has the bomb, and is a heavily Islamist nation. So far, so good.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  9. Sooner or later... by rmdingler · · Score: 1
    Whether or not this is a factual reporting of North Korean H-bomb development, we are certainly rapidly approaching a time when some of the World's least desirable nations will possess doomsday weapons.

    As evidenced by early interviews with politicians, we are hamstrung in the US by partisan bickering, and cannot be counted on to fix this. The World will need to come together on this, or we're likely to affirm Fermi's Paradox.

    Though it is prudent to remember early reporting is often erroneous, It was reported this morning on CNN that Iranian scientists may have helped this along.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:Sooner or later... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And whose fault is this? Who's been developing the technology and selling it to anyone willing to bankrupt themselves to prevent possible US invasion?

      Give me a P! Give me an A! Give me a K! Give me an I! Give me an S! Give me a T! Give me an A! Give me an N!

      That's right, the friendly host of Osama bin Laden himself after we invaded Afghanistan! You guessed it! Pakistan! They bought themselves a great big "get out of invasion free!" card by letting US forces use Pakistan airfields in the "war on some terrorists", but they've been selling nuclear technology for decades now. Where do you think North Korea *bought* the tools to refine nuclear fuel?

      If you think I'm kidding, checkout https://www.washingtonpost.com... .

    2. Re:Sooner or later... by swb · · Score: 1

      The "rogue states" are decades away from being any kind of a threat as they can barely make a functioning A-bomb let alone a bunch of H-bombs AND delivery system worth a damn.

      Even if they got remotely close to being able to deliver a reliable nuke reliably, they HAVE to know that the use or serious threat of use is pretty much a good way to finalize the history on their civilization as they know it.

      A strike on the US would pretty much be a guarantee of a nuclear response and I'd wager China and Russia would say nothing, with the idea that getting involved might get them on the hit parade as co-conspirators.

      It only starts to get iffy when you get into what-ifs involving low-yield bombs in shipping containers and terrorism subterfuge, but I'm skeptical of those situations because they involve power-mad dictators letting their best toy out of their hands.

    3. Re:Sooner or later... by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      They know that the use of nuclear weapons will certainly illicit a nuclear response, and that's exactly the whole point because it cuts both ways.
      At the moment north korea is vulnerable to being pushed around by other countries, if the US decided to invade there would be very little they could do about it and the leadership knows this.
      On the other hand, if they had nuclear weapons then they could at least retaliate and do some significant damage even if they ultimately still lost, and this threat is enough to discourage other countries from trying to invade.

      Similarly possession of nuclear weapons gives them a stronger bargaining position, and makes it harder for other countries to bully and push them around.

      If they actually intended to attack another country with nuclear weapons they wouldn't be talking about it, they would develop/acquire such weapons in secret and perform a surprise attack as having the element of surprise would be a significant strategic advantage in any military strategy.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    4. Re:Sooner or later... by swb · · Score: 1

      My sense is that the absolute odds of a US first strike nuclear attack outweigh the odds of a US ground invasion.

      I can't even begin to imagine a scenario where the US would even consider a conventional ground war against North Korea. Despite the many weaknesses, DPRK has a huge conventional military force and they are well stocked with the kinds of conventional weapons that can draw real blood, an air force that would have to be paid attention to at least for a few days, and probably a pretty decent air defense network that would take some work to be completely neutralized. In a addition to all the usual Soviet/Chinese military goodies, the North Koreans are probably dug in ways that would make even the Viet Cong jealous.

      I don't doubt for a second the US could best the DPRK in a ground war, but it would be a real slugfest at first and require a substantial application of US forces, probably on a scale larger than Gulf War I. There's just no possible reason for the US to ever consider a ground war against the DPRK outside of the equally unlikely event of the North invading the South.

      So this basically eliminates any practical defensive value -- maybe THEY think it protects them, but really possessing what amounts to zillions of every conventional weapon made by the Reds since 1950 is their real defense against invasion, along with absolutely nothing of value to be worth invading for.

      As for not being pushed around, the DPRK really is immune to being pushed around now, so long as being pushed around means influencing domestic policy or what little foreign policy they have.

      The bottom line problem for them with nukes is there is no way they could ever mount a credible threat to actually USE nukes outside their own border. For DPRK (or Iran), nukes become like a suicide weapon. Any actual use is a one-time thing which will result in a counter-strike. Even seriously threatening use against a valued target (ie, Japan, the US) might actually result in a pre-emptive strike. For these small countries lacking US/Soviet/French/British-style triads (sub launch, air launch, ICBM) nukes really are weapons which present an existential risk to their continued existence as they would get glassed over after a single use.

  10. Thermonuclear? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess I'm dumb, how is a pure fission warhead not thermonuclear? I'm not saying a fission bomb is better, cheaper, more efficient, or more destructive, but wtf?

    1. Re:Thermonuclear? by jandersen · · Score: 3, Informative

      I guess I'm dumb, how is a pure fission warhead not thermonuclear?

      Not dumb, but you could have looked it up on Wikipedia. Never the less:

      - Fission works by splitting the nucleus of large atoms, such as Uranium or Plutonium. This works according to a surprisingly simply principle, called the chain reaction, which gets stronger, the more concentrated the active element is. This means that if you take a large enough mass of the right element and squeeze it together in a small enough volume (and quickly enough), then it will explode.

      - Fusion works the opposite way, by fusing together light nuclei; the perhaps surprising thing is, fusion releases energy when you fuse light nuclei, but not when the nuclei are heavier - I think it is around iron that it changes. Fusion on ly happens at very high temperature and pressure, hence the name "thermonuclear". Incidentally, the process of fusion in a hydrogen bomb is set of by a fission device.

      But look the subjects up - wikipedia is probably a good place to start.

    2. Re:Thermonuclear? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Does not explain why one is called thermonuclear and the other not.

      From the meaning of the words, both reactions are "thermo" and "nuclear".

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    3. Re:Thermonuclear? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      fusion fuses light elements.

      fission splits heavy ones.

      both processes release energy AND neutrons.

      splitting is way easier, especially when there are plenty of neutrons... So the yield in both weapons is mostly from fission, with thermonuclear weapons using neutrons from fusion to cause way more fission to happen (even in non-enriched uranium).

    4. Re:Thermonuclear? by Lemmeoutada+Collecti · · Score: 3, Informative

      A more accurate version of thermonuclear would be thermonuclear triggered. The military just likes to shorten things.

      --

      You can have it fast, accurate, or pretty. Pick any 2.
    5. Re:Thermonuclear? by jandersen · · Score: 2

      Does not explain why one is called thermonuclear and the other not.

      No, I thought about that after I had clicked send - the crucial difference is that in a fission reaction, the explosive reaction starts with "cold" Uranium, plutonium, ..., but in a thermonuclear, the big explosion does not happen until a very high temperature has been reached, hence 'thermonuclear' instead of just 'nuclear'.

    6. Re:Thermonuclear? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Does not explain why one is called thermonuclear and the other not."

      On an A-Bomb, the core functionality (physion chain reaction) comes from "pure" nuclear physics: you just (for a fairly complicated level of "just") put a critical mass of physible elements together, and the rest happens on its own.

      On an H-Bomb, on the other hand, in order for the core functionality (fusion) to work, you first need a stupidly big exothermic reaction to happen since fusion won't happen on its own, therefore the two-staged name: thermo (first stage) nuclear (second stage). In fact, the "stupidly big exothermic reaction" required to trigger the fusion is so "stupidly big" that we can't produce it but with an A-Bomb, but that's conceptually secondary.

    7. Re:Thermonuclear? by amorsen · · Score: 1

      in order for the core functionality (fusion) to work

      There are, as far as I know, no existing bomb which gets more than 50% of its yield from nuclear fusion. H-bombs vary between those who get an insignificant amount of energy but a lot of neutrons from the fusion to those which get quite a large bang from the fusion but even more from fission.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    8. Re:Thermonuclear? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The word "thermonuclear" in "thermonuclear bomb" comes from the term "thermonuclear fusion", which itself is a clarification of "nuclear fusion" (as opposed to "nuclear fission"). It's an unfortunate terminological quirk that by now is firmly entrenched and is a de facto standard. "Fission bomb" and "fusion bomb" would have been more accurate descriptions, but that ship has sailed.

    9. Re:Thermonuclear? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "There are, as far as I know, no existing bomb which gets more than 50% of its yield from nuclear fusion."

      Even if that were true... so what?

      Are you denying that the core functionality of a fusion bomb is the fusion part? Or that, now that you name them, the core functionality of a neutron bomb is neutron production (even if it _is_ a kind of thermonuclear bomb)? Given that current designs are quite complex (i.e. physion-fusion-physion designs) the "thermonuclear" nickname looks even more adequate, since it's more generic.

      On the other hand and up to my knowledge, on Castle Bravo's case, the most powerful USA probe at about 15Mt, less than 1Mt was assigned to physion.

    10. Re:Thermonuclear? by amorsen · · Score: 1

      Are you denying that the core functionality of a fusion bomb is the fusion part?

      Yes, that is what I am denying. I do not think it is fair to say that it is core functionality when it contributes less than 50% of the explosive power.

      Thermonuclear is obviously correct, and neutron bomb is fine too, but fusion bombs just aren't really fusion bombs.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    11. Re:Thermonuclear? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Personally, I think it's old terms we're pretty much stuck with. Thermonuclear is probably a reference to the need to make the fusion materials very hot. Calling them atomic bombs and hydrogen bombs is also not particularly apt. I tend to refer to them as fission and fusion, but with the caveat that fission bombs are often enhanced by fusion, and fusion bombs typically get the majority of their energy from fission.

      Given all that, I suppose "nuclear" and "thermonuclear" are about as good as anything.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  11. Get your bodily fluid checked out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    because it is time. Time to NUKE EM NOW!

    Ever notice how Kim looks like a pigdog.

  12. It's clear now by Coisiche · · Score: 1

    That North Korean astronaut that went to the sun and back in 4 hours [1] recently was obviously going to collect hydrogen for this device.

    [1] Yeah, yeah, I know the story was fabricated rather than being an official NK declaration.

  13. Nukes are obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Precision munitions are better. You only need one small guided bomb to take out O'l Kimmy.

  14. Wake me when Montana is warp-capable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm going back to sleep.

  15. China does not want the refugees if the north goes by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    China does not want the refugees if the north goes down.

    But they also don't want any fall out and the north can shell the shit out of seoul.

  16. An American Policy Failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The whole point of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty was the states that had nukes would not use them against those who did not on the condition they did not make their own in the meantime and that the nuclear powers would disband their nuclear weapons by 1995. Well 1995 came around and the nuclear powers flipped the bird to the rest of the world and said 'SUCKERS!' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    And the rest of the world said "What the fuck ever", "sure thing boss," or "awesome! lets get some too!!!!" Nothing magical about the technology so it was only a matter of time before they caught up. And so now, having blown their chance to rid the world of nukes, America finds everyone else is getting them too, and eventually American troops will be on the receiving end of the weapons as they spread. http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/...

    Now we have a butt-fucking crazy mo-fo, protected by China, with his hands on the most dangerous weapon ever created. This is what happens when you sit back and do nothing and wish the world won't change, even as it changes around you.

    I'd call this a massive fucking foreign policy failure. Nicely played, America.

    1. Re:An American Policy Failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And so now, having blown their chance to rid the world of nukes, America finds

      You're living in a fantasy land. The reason the "big boys" never dumped their nukes is because only a complete and utter Fool would believe that doing so would somehow magically stop or prevent anyone else from building their own. If anything, it would have encouraged places like North Korea to try and build their own even sooner than they did.

    2. Re:An American Policy Failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'd call this a massive fucking foreign policy failure. Nicely played, America."

      And they still go with the double standard, both for the big things and the petty ones.

      Just in this article it says "seven years after the first and only use of nuclear weapons in wartime" and still no one has stated the obvious: no, sir, USA did not used nuclear weapons in wartime only once, it used them TWICE: two different missions, three days apart, on two different cities can't count as "once" but still USA propaganda wants to minimize their country's big fuck up, just like, in USA, is "common culture" that those bombs helped ending the war, when even USA's establishment understood that wasn't the case as early as 1946, see i.e. "U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey" from Truman's Chairman Office.

    3. Re:An American Policy Failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > because only a complete and utter Fool would believe that doing so would somehow magically stop or prevent anyone else from building their own.

      Those utter fools would include all those countries who signed the NPT believing the big boys would keep their word. Are you saying they were fools to trust them?

  17. work with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe instead of antagonizing them, we should work with them to get rid of our common enemy.
    The muslims.

    1. Re:work with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Israel, please settle down.

    2. Re:work with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Israel is the world's enemy you idiot.

  18. The most dangerous country by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The most dangerous country in this days is United States.

    1. Re:The most dangerous country by greenfruitsalad · · Score: 1

      while international policies of usa make it a personification of greed fuelled arrogance, russia/china are much further along that line. but calling it the most dangerous is taking it way too far. the main difference is, usa is still trying to make everything look legal. more dangerous nations are not hindered by that anymore (see russian conflict with ukraine; chinese advances in east/south china sea)

    2. Re:The most dangerous country by mark-t · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is that it's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

      Which does not, by any means, make it a sheep, or any less dangerous than wolves which are obviously wolves. Arguably, in fact, it makes it even more dangerous on account of it.

  19. Re:more dangearous than usa? by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 1, Troll

    Oh fuck OFF. Seriously. What are you, 12 years old?

    --
    "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
  20. Nothing to worry about by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 2

    As soon as North Korea starts getting a little excited and starts sabre rattling and threatening other countries, China will tell them to shut the fuck up or they'll withdraw aid.

    1. Re:Nothing to worry about by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      And if they do, Kim Jong-un will start pointing their shit down to South Korea. He's batshit crazy enough to attempt it.

      I wouldn't downplay the situation.

    2. Re:Nothing to worry about by IWantMoreSpamPlease · · Score: 1

      Of all the comments (so far) you are the only one who seems to understand why NK rattles sabres on a regular basis...for aid.
      Having read parts of their founder's "manifesto" I don't panic every time they light off rounds at SK. They just need to save face while at the same time asking for food.

      If this is a real nuclear device, it might change things a bit, but if NK were to ever *really* decide to invade SK, they won't start with a show of force and theatrics, they'll just do it.

      --
      So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
    3. Re:Nothing to worry about by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Exactly...
      North Korea is a small country that is largely ignored or bullied by other larger nations, they want nuclear weapons because that's the only way they'll be taken seriously.
      If they actually planned to USE nuclear weapons then they would just do so, not talk about it, because the element of surprise is extremely beneficial.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    4. Re:Nothing to worry about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing is, even if you are 99% sure that NK isn't going to follow through on its violent rhetoric, that remaining 1% is a big deal when it concerns an aggressive nuclear detonation.

    5. Re:Nothing to worry about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this is a real nuclear device, it might change things a bit, but if NK were to ever *really* decide to invade SK, they won't start with a show of force and theatrics, they'll just do it.

      Which would result in the US/SK and Chinese army meeting in the middle. Neither side would be a safe place for the NK top after such a stunt.

      The Chinese doesn't exactly like Kim Jong Un. Both sides *tolerate* NK, because either way the opposite sites would react in force to an invasion of NK. Pissing of the people who tolerate them would likely end the days of being tolerated.

  21. Inscrutable, attention whore, wack-job by rmdingler · · Score: 1
    North Korea, and in particular Kim Jong Un, just wants to matter.

    The US elections are going on with no mention, the 24 hour news cycle ignores him until he tops his last incredible act, and then he has to deal with domestic issues...

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  22. They did right after me by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 0

    Oh me too, me too. Finally got that off my todo list. Whew.

  23. Re:more dangearous than usa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Judging by his punctuation I'd say no, not yet.

  24. Re:more dangearous than usa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, ad hominem really helps your side of the argument..

  25. They are still fighting the Korean War by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The sad and scary thing is that North Korea never stopped fighting the Korean War even though everyone else walked away and carried on with their lives. There was no official "end" to the Korean War, just a "time out".

  26. Nuclear Winter - the solution to global warming by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    North Korea is trying to save the planet.

  27. Obama ready to capitulate America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As his tears flow down into a bowl of kimchi and goes for your guns.

  28. Christmas toys. by jwlondon · · Score: 1

    Kim Jong-il knows there has already been a nuclear bomb called "little boy" and "fat man" right?

    1. Re:Christmas toys. by jwlondon · · Score: 1

      ....Looking at the seismographs being published the test was not a fusion or hydrogen device and somewhat smaller the US's first nuclear bomb "little boy" so Kim Jong-il has some way to achieving even that title.

  29. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Watch the K-pop outlets; all those Androgynous South Korean Pop Singers who bravely, (And publicly...), put their careers on hold while serving in the Military... South Korea is also a Police State, although with undoubtably better Kimchi.
    You make a very good point. The "Korean War" never ended, and Dissent, like the UPP, is crushed in South Korea.

  30. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

    these West German youth knew they didn't have any real power, but they knew through song they could fight against their enemies.

    The songs and protests were not directed against their "enemies". They were directed against the Atlanticist government of Helmut Schmidt, and the American deployment of Pershing Missiles in Germany. Rather than "fighting" their enemies, the protestors advocated unilateral disarmament and appeasement.

    Why are South Korean youth so silent when facing a similar threat?

    Perhaps they have more sense.

  31. NK can sell them to the highest bidder by schwit1 · · Score: 1

    NK is short on currency and demand for nukes is high in the middle east.

    1. Re:NK can sell them to the highest bidder by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

      Short on currency? http://www.pcworld.com/article...
      wait till they get better at this !

  32. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by dcw3 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So, you'd prefer the approach Chamberlain took with Hitler, and think Regan did it the wrong way with the U.S.S.R. Maybe you could give an example of how pacifism has successfully worked at disarming a despot?

    --
    Just another day in Paradise
  33. Re:more dangearous than usa? by NominalLoss · · Score: 1

    Nope, just working his day shift out of an office in Kiev.

  34. Re:More H-bombs, less crime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, because he's not an American.

  35. Re: Why are South Korean youth so silent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    South Korea is more free than the USA or UK nowadays.

    Conscription is a necessary evil with a wacko neighbour on your border. And just because they have shitty taste in music doesn't mean anything (not that the US or UK general population have good taste in music either. The number one "artists" don't play instruments or even song anymore).

  36. Re: Why are South Korean youth so silent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    North Korea is a joke. Not a threat.

  37. Re:China does not want the refugees if the north g by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

    and the north can shell the shit out of seoul.

    That's for sure . NK is so full of shit that they don't need shells .

  38. Re:more dangearous than usa? by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

    But dude, you gotta admit the US just ain't got the *hair cut* man !!

  39. Nope. by cirby · · Score: 4, Informative

    If true, it's quite frightening. H bombs currently require multiple small A bombs to triggter, and the bomb casing is also typically made out of non-weapons grade uranium which reflects and focuses the A-bomb blasts onto the tritium and deuterium core.

    First, no, you don't need "multiple small A bombs to trigger" a fusion detonation. You need one. You can make multi-stage weapons like the Tsar Bomba, nobody seems to nowadays.

    Second, you can supposedly make the tamper out of a lot of different materials (even lead) - but even if you decided to use uranium, any country with a big enough program to make an A-bomb would have a crapload of uranium metal sitting around.

    1. Re:Nope. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And last, you don't need a fission bomb, that was just early on. Jumping off of modern tech, Fusion bombs should be a lot easier in fact.

    2. Re:Nope. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And last, you don't need a fission bomb, that was just early on. Jumping off of modern tech, Fusion bombs should be a lot easier in fact.

      Which is pure speculation.

      I'd be interested if you have any actual pointers to support your statement.

    3. Re:Nope. by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      I'm looking at the specs on that Tsar Bomb. Apparently, only one was made and actually tested. From the limited literature available, I've never seen any other design that used only a single A-bomb.

      The uranium used for the tamper was not weapon grade U-235, it was the more stable and more plentiful U-238. But exposing it to an H-bomb sprays it in a very fine gas, with additional isotapes generated by the H-bomb: that's one of the big fallout problems with H-bombs, which was repeatedly understated by the US military after its development.

      I have never seen any credible claim of an H-bomb triggered by anything other than an A-bomb. Have you seen anything to support the idea as practical?

    4. Re:Nope. by cirby · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but which designs do you think use multiple A-bombs to trigger a fusion weapon?

      Every single one ever fielded as a weapon used one (1) fission device to trigger a fusion reaction, which then caused more fission. That's just _how they work_.

      Most of the weapons the US fielded over the last half-century were pretty small, in comparison, due to being more efficient and intended for use in air-launched/dropped weapons and ICBM warheads.

      Now, maybe you got confused by the MIRV concept - where they used multiple fusion weapons in one missile - but no, that "multiple A-bombs to trigger fusion" thing is just wrong. I only mentioned the Tsar Bomba because it used multiple fission cores to boost the overall yield. It was never a useful device, in general.

  40. No they didn't. by goodmanj · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Nuclear weapons create earthquakes, and you can roughly estimate the size of the bomb from the magnitude of the earthquake. In this case, we're looking at a 5.1 magnitude quake:

    http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ear...

    There's an empirical law for calculating the size of an underground nuclear blast from the magnitude of the earthquake.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    This law is a little sketchy (earthquake size depends on how tightly the bomb is packed into the ground), but taking it at face value I calculate a 45 kiloton blast. That's nowhere near a true fusion H-bomb (typically hundreds of kilotons up to megatons): it's consistent with a large fission bomb, a boosted fission weapon, or a failed fusion test, where the fusion secondary failed to ignite.

    1. Re:No they didn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Theoretically a hydrogen bomb can be made with a yield as small as you desire (of course it cannot attenuate the blast of the fission primary)

  41. Dear China. by dmgxmichael · · Score: 2

    This April we are holding our annual war games with South Korea. We expect North Korea to rattle it's sabers and embarrass you again while this exercise is conducted. We propose the following: Approach the leadership of North Korea with helping them conduct a war game of their own. Get a couple hundred divisions of your army into Pyong Yang under those pretenses, then capture or kill Kim and destroy his regime before he even realizes what's happening. Allow the South Korean army to take over the north and in exchange we will completely withdraw all troops from the Korean peninsula.

    1. Re:Dear China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " we will completely withdraw all troops from the Korean peninsula" - this will NEVER happen.
      Since when does the USA voluntary WITHDRAW its presence from a foreign country?
      Apart from West Germany (now completely stable), I can't recall this ever happening in the past.

    2. Re:Dear China. by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Since when does the USA voluntary WITHDRAW its presence from a foreign country?
      Apart from West Germany (now completely stable), I can't recall this ever happening in the past.

      Today, USA still has several dozen Army installations in Germany, all of them in territory that was formerly considered West Germany. Furthermore, there are currently over 37000 American troops deployed in Germany.

      The USA does not voluntarily withdraw its presence from a foreign country, period. Not even from West Germany.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    3. Re:Dear China. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guarantee you that SK wants nothing to do with the North. The only thing that scares them more than a military invasion from the North is a refugee invasion... and it would be huge.

      Oh, and you do realize that a couple hundred divisions is millions of people, right?

    4. Re:Dear China. by DrFalkyn · · Score: 1

      They did from Saudi Arabia
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    5. Re:Dear China. by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Thanks! I find this especially fascinating.

      What the fuck kind of relationship exists between the US and the Saudis? There's been some strange shit going on over there for a very long time now. That they were able to get our military out of there only suggests that the relationship is even more unique than I had previously suspected.

      Thankfully, it seems that the extended period of cheap oil is really killing their economy, and that Saudi rule as we know it won't be sustainable for more than a couple more years. This is evidenced by the major recent cuts to social programs, etc.

      Let's hope the house of Saud collapses and we finally learn what all this has been about.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    6. Re:Dear China. by clovis · · Score: 1

      And the Philippines.

    7. Re:Dear China. by thesupraman · · Score: 1

      Since when was that voluntary?

    8. Re:Dear China. by Amanitin · · Score: 1

      I don't think anyone with a stake wants a snap unification there. It would result in a serious humanitarian crisis and an economical setback for ROK they would not recover from for decades.

    9. Re:Dear China. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      About twenty-five years ago, there were extremely good reasons for having a significant amount of the US Army in Germany, with equipment in place to equip more division when soldiers were flown in. Nobody was confident that the Soviets wouldn't attack into West Germany at pretty much any time. (I suspect that the Soviets didn't trust NATO not to launch an offensive, either.) I don't think Germany is in any danger of conventional attack now.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  42. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why are South Korean youth so silent when facing a similar threat? Why have they not produced any notable protest songs decrying nuclear weapons? Why are they so passive and silent compared to, say, the West German youth who faced a similar threat?

    They are too busy playing StarCraft2... you know, priorities man.

  43. Hi! Please carpet bomb us! *SIGH* by Chas · · Score: 1

    Not-so-lil Kim and his cronies are playing with fire here.
    If they think the US is going to accept their psychotic little cult-of-personality kleptocracy developing nuclear capability and the ability to actually lob one into the US, they're even nuttier than they've been reported to be.

    It's as if they're begging to be carpet-bombed back into the stone age.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  44. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why are South Korean youth so silent when facing a similar threat?

    If you think there's anything "silent" about Korea's feelings towards the rebel government occupying the northern part of their country, then you've got your head up your ass.

  45. I'm hoping that this is a good thing by holophrastic · · Score: 1

    It's long been said that nuclear weapons are the first mechanisms of peace in human history. So I'm willing to say that I hope this is a good thing. I hope that, like everyone else, north korea doesn't wind up using it for anything more than garnering respect for their own sovereignty.

    I do find it upsetting, disappointing, and just plain odd that the U.S.A. would try to stop a country from developing a technology that the U.S.A. developed 65 years ago. It would seem to be a futile effort. Obviously they'll eventually figure it out -- it's documented all over the web, and now in this slashdot discussion myriad times.

    The enemy is always irrational and unpredictable and crazy and dangerous and out to destroy you. Let's hope that the leader of a nation is truthfully none of those in this regard.

    I'm think it's a good thing; I really don't want to be proven wrong.

  46. Its that time again by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

    Christmas is over, and Kim Jong-un didn't get any presents from the west. He knows we're all real busy, so it probably just slipped our minds. So this is his discreet way of reminding us that, even though he's atheist, he still appreciates Christmas gifts.

    North Korea does this every few years. Next there's a lot of diplomacy, we give them lots of food and money, and they promise to never ever, ever, do another nuclear test again. Pinky swear.

  47. Cold fusion? by Crowd+Computing · · Score: 1

    They popped a hydrogen filled balloon with a lit cigarette and declared success.

    So you're saying junior great leader Kim has achieved the Holy Grail of energy research?

  48. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by crow_t_robot · · Score: 2

    Hey, man, if they aren't releasing singles that top the pop charts then OBVIOUSLY they aren't doing anything at all because we all know that's the only way to speak out.

  49. Re:Hi! Please carpet bomb us! *SIGH* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not that simple. North Korea, even without nuclear weapons, is a pretty formidable foe. They have a highly trained, well equipped military, lots of anti-aircraft weapons, a large system of deep underground facilities and other things. There's a reason we haven't finished them off in all this time.

  50. Re:Hi! Please carpet bomb us! *SIGH* by PPH · · Score: 1

    There's a reason we haven't finished them off in all this time.

    I'd like to think that we don't go around 'finishing off' weaker countries just for the heck of it. Because this thinking only justifies Kim's level of paranoia and arms development.

    I'm perfectly happy to stand by while the two Koreas only glare at each other over the DMZ. We are there with our armed forces only to assist in the defense of an ally should it be needed.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  51. Re:More H-bombs, less crime by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    No, because he's not an American.

    If civil rights are "endowed by a creator", then ol' Kim has them just like you and me. Ain't that right?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  52. Re: Why are South Korean youth so silent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Conscription is a necessary evil with a wacko neighbour on your border.

    So you're saying if the US elects Trump Canada should start conscription?

  53. Here's a clean 'hydrogen bomb' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  54. Israel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't it interesting how the Zionist controlled media is always finger pointing at Iran and North Korea, labeling them as "evil"; while stockpiling nuclear weapons, denying them, and blackmailing the world.

    ISRAEL IS THE BIGGEST THREAT TO WORLD PEACE. Wake up and smell the jewish bullshit.

  55. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So, you'd prefer the approach Chamberlain took with Hitler, and think Regan did it the wrong way with the U.S.S.R. Maybe you could give an example of how pacifism has successfully worked at disarming a despot?

    Does Ghandi and company count?

  56. Re:more dangearous than usa? by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 1

    Which country doesn't have a history of genocidal land grab, ethnic cleansings, or "worst form of slavery very late"?

  57. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by dcw3 · · Score: 0

    So, you'd prefer the approach Chamberlain took with Hitler, and think Regan did it the wrong way with the U.S.S.R. Maybe you could give an example of how pacifism has successfully worked at disarming a despot?

    Does Ghandi and company count?

    Yes, but only if the despot is somewhat rational, and gives a shit about their reputation with the rest of the world. It in now way matches the situation with NK.

    --
    Just another day in Paradise
  58. Quite a bit of not quite true stuff in there by mbkennel · · Score: 2


    There is such a thing as boosted fission weapons, which do have fusion fuel---deuterium and tritium, in the core of the fission primary. This is not an "H-Bomb". The fusion fuel provides comparatively insignificant energy output from fusion and contributes almost nothing to the yield---however, it does provide an extra boost of neutrons at close to the moment of maximum criticality, therefore substantially increasing the efficiency of the fission reaction. It is a physical 'neutron gun', and in practice, a key step towards significantly smaller and lighter fission weapons suitable for a mass-constrained ballistic missile warhead.

    The transition from fission weapons to true multi-stage radiation coupled thermonuclear weapons (Teller-Ulam) is indeed quite challenging scientifically, there are far more uncertainties than with the fission weapons. It's all about energy transfer, exotic thermodynamics and fluid mechanics.

    There are still significant undisclosed secrets in this stage as well. The fusion section is not just Li6-D, but a combined assembly of fusion and fission fuel & tampers. A major part of yield in modern thermonuclear weapons is in fission of the secondary, and it is very incorrect to say that they are "clean weapons". A big part of yield (60-80%) is from fission and the amount of fallout is proportional to total fission events & energy.

    A boosted primary core is a practical prerequisite for multi-stage H-bombs, though as it provides a cleaner and more appropriately shapable radiation pulse to drive the secondary.

    I believe it to be more likely that DPRK tested a boosted fission primary and the staff told His Supercritical Eminence that it was a H-bomb. Which is true, from a certain point of view.

  59. My question is.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which video game was North Korea playing when they detonated a hydrogen bomb?

  60. NEIC reports a 5.1M quake there by peter303 · · Score: 1

    But the NEIC did not post a source mechanism yet. Faults and explosions have clearly distinction source mechanisms. An explosions "first motion" on a seismogram is outward in all 360 directions. A fault shows four quadrants of motion- alternating in and out. Usually the NEIC posts a moment tensor solution of its own or from a university within minutes of a new large quake. I just looked.

    P.S. Faulted quakes and explosions have other, more subtle distinguishing characteristics devised to bypass Russian and Isreali test cheating in the past.

  61. Really... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We are not in charge of who gets to do what. America is not the world police.
    Serously, leave other countries alone and we would stop looking like the war mongering asshats we have become.

    When did the USA decide it would tell every other country what, when, where, how, and why they can or can not do something?

    'Merica, land of the we tell you wut.

  62. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 2

    Does Ghandi and company count?

    No, it does not.

    That all happened due to the British Empire being tired, broke, and open to change.

    10 people who did exactly what Ghandi did in the several hundred years before, were all taken outside and shot.

    In any case, it doesn't apply because the British Empire wasn't a despot, it wasn't disarmed, and it still exists today with the same chain of government.

  63. Re: Why are South Korean youth so silent? by tnk1 · · Score: 2

    North Korea is a very serious threat because their leaders have no real restraint and everything to lose if they aren't in control. To Kim Jong Un, the world begins and ends with himself, and he has complete control. If anything comes close to threatening his power externally, he has enough conventional artillery zeroed in on Seoul to demolish it and kill a significant portion of the population. And given his treatment of his uncle, I have no illusions that he would develop a conscience at the last minute about killing people in horrifying ways.

    NK has a shitty, but real, nuclear weapon which they could smuggle somewhere which is enough to hurt a lot of people, and their country is shitty enough that a retaliatory strike of more than one missile at the capital would simply be making rubble bounce. There's really no point to nuking a bunch of huts that make up the rest of the country.

    More to the point, I have serious doubts that we'd even retaliate with nuclear weapons on NK because it would really piss off China and affect SK and Japan to some degree and Kim probably knows that. That means that, effectively, we've probably already written off at least one city somewhere that their weapon could be used on without like and kind retaliation.

    NK isn't going to end the world as we know it... at least with their current capabilities... but it doesn't have to do it alone. Serbia wasn't worth a World War either, but one happened anyway. If NK becomes a problem in the middle of a larger future crisis, there's going to be real trouble.

  64. Can we give them one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we give the gooks a hydrogen bomb? Like, just airdrop it on Pyongyang?

    1. Re:Can we give them one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, we got hydrogen bombs too. They better tread very carefully.

  65. Demonstrably Impotent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really? So the world's response to this is "we can't let this happen"...O really and EXACTLY what is anyone going to do about this? apply more sanctions? (clearly that isn't working, hasn't worked & won't work as long as a mad man is running that country)...it's an entirely impotent response, its not even a useful 'sound bite' because of just how impotent it sounds.

  66. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    Are you trying to tell me this wasn't a protest song? You have shaken my world.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  67. no progress after 7 years of trying every day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    O'Bummer only has 300 days left to TAEK AR GUNZZZ!

    -- this comment brought to you by the committee that really doesn't think delusional yahoos can be trusted with deadly weapons.
    Shoot a kindergartner for Freedumb!

  68. Wrong course of action by Bert64 · · Score: 1

    Several countries around the world have nuclear weapons, why should north korea be denied the same? This is a case of larger countries trying to push smaller ones around out of arrogance.
    While the regime in north korea is not without its flaws, they are also not stupid. They want nuclear weapons to give them a voice at the bargaining table, specifically because they don't like the way larger countries push them around. They're not actually going to use these weapons any more than any other country, because they know the result would be their own destruction.

    Imposing sanctions on them will not stop their nuclear program, all it does is increase their determination because sanctions are far less likely and far less punitive if they have a credible nuclear weapon, just look at russia's actions in ukraine, if a smaller non nuclear armed country annexed part of another it would have resulted in war against them.

    Similarly sanctions hurt the people of north korea far more than the government, cutting the people off from the rest of the world only helps to further strengthen their regime while those in power have their own black market channels to generate their own wealth.

    --
    http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  69. Crazy Logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to the NY Times, the test is bound to figure in the American presidential campaign, where several candidates have already cited the North's nuclear experimentation as evidence of American weakness

    Cause and effect, bitches. Cause and effect. Ah, never mind. The unnamed candidates will never get it even though there is the situation with the second amendment to refer to.

  70. Re:more dangearous than usa? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

    Which country doesn't have a history of genocidal land grab, ethnic cleansings, or "worst form of slavery very late"?

    Tonga!

    Wait, shit, no.

    Greenland!

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  71. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by wyHunter · · Score: 2

    This is what people tend to forget. India was granted independence because the United Kingdom spent a good portion (most?) of its national wealth in WWII. There was also pressure from FDR to grant them independence. And without American loans after the war, Britain would have collapsed.

  72. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

    This couple pictures exemplifies the difference between North and South :

    http://theoatmeal.com/comics/n...

  73. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Because the Soviet propaganda ministry was better at doing it's job in west Germany than the N Korean propaganda ministry is at doing it's job in S Korea.

    Those German's kids are glad their parents protests failed.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  74. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    It should also be noted that independence was never granted to the Japanese backed rebels fighting in India during WWII.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  75. Step back in time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's like the 1950's all over again...

  76. speling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NU-KU-LAR, repeat after me. There.

  77. Re:Hi! Please carpet bomb us! *SIGH* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Kim's level of paranoia" ... is it paranoia if it's true?

    The U.S. killed 25% of North Korea's population.

  78. Re:Hi! Please carpet bomb us! *SIGH* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The West carpet bombed Libya and Libya didn't threaten anyone. Ironically Gaddafi rolled back Libya's nuclear program and ratified the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty... and look what that got him.

  79. Banking by Smiddi · · Score: 1

    Im surprised no one has yet mentioned the Rothchild's or Central bank?

  80. Neutrino count or it didn't happen. by dsmatthews9379 · · Score: 1

    That is the definitive way of remotely sensing the detonation of a nuclear weapon, isn't it?

  81. Re: Why are South Korean youth so silent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, but maybe Mexico should worry.

  82. Re: Why are South Korean youth so silent? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Kim Jong Un isn't insane and doesn't have unlimited power. He has plenty of support at the moment because it suits others in the military and political ranks, but he has to maintain that support and that allows others to influence him.

    The system is insane, but the actors as the top are not.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  83. Re:more dangearous than usa? by sittingnut · · Score: 0

    let me guess you live and love usa country that kills and rapes children. such moral bankruptcy and corruption explains your irrationality when faced with facts

  84. Remember: they HAVE fission weapons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So while this looks like a "dud" as a fusion weapon test, they already have bombs like the ones dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    Of course, Bill Clinton assured us that his 1994 "nuke deal" with North Korea would stop their nuclear weapons development program. That was the deal his "social worker" and Democrat activist friend Wendy Sherman negotiated - since innner-city poverty work is clearly the primary qualification needed for international nuclear weapons deal negotiations. Sadly, this is the same incompetent woman President Obama turned to to negotiate the equally feckless Iran nuclear deal and that Harvard will now allow to indoctrinate young Americans into terminal stupidity. Of course, as with her North Korea nuke deal, this woman was so incompetent that she never even READ the Iran "deal" she brokered. Expect Iranian nuke tests soon, and global nuclear terrorism and blackmail in the decades ahead.

    Leftist lunatics with "social justice" agendas should never be allowed near serious issues. Even most right-wingers are too un-serious and insufficiently suspicious/cautious to be involved in such matters. Such negotiations should only involve people who have been on a battlefield smelling and tasting death with a gritty awareness that such things are REAL and not some damned abstract polysci exercise to slam-dunk an "achievment" or "legacy" during a short political term with no concern for the people who will face the results decades later.

  85. Oooooh, let me guess.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    your last name is Goebbels, or you wear a spare diaper on your head, or you wear a foil hat and spend your time worrying about the queen of England, the Bilderburgs, and the Masons....

    Jew haters are the stupidest slice of humanity. They have a blind-hatred for a tiny slice of the human race with absolutely NO rational reason. They often cite lunatic conspiracy theories and easily proven FALSE "factoids" they got from Jew-hating web cites, or the rantings of a long-dead mass-murdering polygamist child molester as some sort of evidence for their whacky irrational hate. Have you counted the number of Jews in banking or politics and decided that's evidence of something? Did you count the number of Asians in those fields and panic in the same proportion about Asians "running everything"???? What makes you so simplistic, stupid, and bigoted that you think any two Jews even agree on anything, let alone some shadowy scheme to run the planet? Do you similarly think all blacks think the same? All Asians? All Caucasians?

    Doofus!

    If you're the skinhead sort, please go back and study the total insanity of the NAZI pagan beliefs and rituals and then spend a few days contemplating how you could be so STUPID as to actually fall for that garbage which is less-rational than the physics in a saturday morning Road Runner cartoon.

    If you are the foil hat sort, kindly don't stop there - finish wrapping yourself entirely in foil to keep out all the cosmic rays and cell phone and powerline emissions, and then spend a few days contemplating how stupid you look doing an impersonation of a Mexican street taco.

    If you're the sort who keeps a spare diaper on his head, please follow your beliefs to their logical conclusions and blow yourself to smithereens but kindly do it in a nice isolated bit of Arab or African desert where your trip to see 72 virgins wont affect any of the sane people on the planet.

  86. Where is your local VaultTec Rep by ZenMatrix · · Score: 1

    Someone should now start the VaultTec company now, I'd join. I'm saving my bottle caps now

  87. Re:Why are South Korean youth so silent? by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

    10 people who did exactly what Ghandi did in the several hundred years before, were all taken outside and shot.

    Exactly this.

  88. Re:Hi! Please carpet bomb us! *SIGH* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nope, they know they will be tolerated.

    If the US invades, China will counter-attack. If China invades, the US will counter-attack.

    As long as they don't do something really stupid (like firing a nuke at one of their neighbors), they will be safe. If they do piss both sides off, the tolerance will end. The likely result being a new border between SK and China being drawn somewhere in the middle.

  89. Re:China does not want the refugees if the north g by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    A long time ago, a relative went to China. He said that you can tell the North Korean refugees because they're so obviously underfed, so a Chinese family who shelters one will keep him or her inside until they can fatten up the refugee.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  90. MIRV by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    I thought the reason why no one bothered making the big Bertha type of bombs anymore was because it was much more effective to have a bunch of smaller ones in a MIRV type setup... Which is much more dependent on the delivery system. From what tests NK has done, while they may be a nuclear power, their delivery systems are not really on the same level. If your target isn't that far away (i.e. SK), it probably doesn't have to be that far advanced. That said, it could be reasonable that they follow the similar development strategies (i.e. one big bomb) as other nations did long ago, likely for the same reasons (delivery issues... Tsar Bomba was dropped by a bomber plane if I remember correctly, which barely had time to get out of the way, another reason to limit size due to delivery system)...

    Having said that, I seem to recall NK trying to advance their "satellite" launching ability...

  91. Why its difficult to build a hydrogen bomb by NewYork · · Score: 1

    Why its difficult to build a hydrogen bomb?
    http://qz.com/588519/why-its-s...