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A Small Secret Airstrip In Africa Is the Future of America's Way of War

HughPickens.com writes: Reuters reports that the Pentagon is quietly building up a small airstrip in a remote region of east Africa that is a complex microcosm of how Washington runs military operations overseas — and how America's way of war will probably look for the foreseeable future. Chabelley Airfield is less than 10 miles from the capital of the small African nation of Djibouti but the small airport is the hub for America's drone operations in the nearby hotspots of Somalia and Yemen as part of its war against Islamic militants. "The U.S. military is being pressured into considering the adoption of more of a lily pad basing model in the wake of so much turbulence and warfare across the region," says Dr. Geoffrey Gresh. "Djibouti is a small, relatively safe ally that enables the U.S. special operators to carry out missions effectively across the continent." In September 2013, the Pentagon announced it was moving the pilotless aircraft from its main base at Camp Lemonnier to Chabelley with almost no fanfare. Africom and the Pentagon jealously guard information about their outposts in Africa, making it impossible to ascertain even basic facts — like a simple count — let alone just how many are integral to JSOC operations, drone strikes, and other secret activities. However a map in a Pentagon report indicates that there were 10 MQ-1 Predator drones and four larger, more far-ranging MQ-9 Reapers based at Camp Lemonnier in June 2012 before the move to Chabelley.

The Pentagon does not list Chabelley in its annual Base Structure Report, the only official compendium of American military facilities around the world. "The Chebelley base [is] a reflection of the growing presence of the U.S. military in Africa," says Dr. David Vine, author of 'Base Nation: How U.S. Military Bases Abroad Harm America and the World". "The [U.S.] military has gone to great lengths to disguise and downplay its growing presence in Africa generally in the hopes of avoiding negative attention and protests both in the U.S. and in African countries wary of the colonial-esque presence of foreign troops." American drones fly regular missions from Chabelley, an airstrip the French run with the approval of the Djiboutian government. Washington pays Djibouti for access to Paris' outpost. Part of the reason for this circuitous chain of responsibility could be the fact that the Pentagon's drone missions are often controversial. Critics contend targeted strikes against militants are illegal under American and international law and tantamount to assassination. "The military is easily capable of adapting to change, but they don't like to stop anything they feel is making their lives easier, or is to their benefit. And this certainly is, in their eyes, a very quick, clean way of doing things. It's a very slick, efficient way to conduct the war, without having to have the massive ground invasion mistakes of Iraq and Afghanistan."

139 comments

  1. Why is a political article like this on Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why the heck did a purely-political article like this one end up on the front page of Slashdot?!

    Is it just to stir up argument, to try to get more ad impressions?

    It's hilarious that we see so many good Slashdot comments modded "Troll" or "Flamebait" so often, when it's stories like this that are far worse than those comments ever are.

    And before anyone wastes their time pointing out that this submission is about drones, let me remind you that it isn't. It's about nothing more than the politics around drones. The technology itself is playing second fiddle in this story, well behind the politics.

    Enough with the political articles, Hugh and the editors. We want real stories here, not junk like this!

  2. Slick or sick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Slick and efficient if you don't happen to be someone who lives in the affected countries:

    30 people die for every "terrorist" killed by a drone, and that's with the Pentagon being about as liberal with the term as they were for "Vietcong" during Vietnam - meaning everyone who had potential to be a Vietcong who had a bullet in them was a Vietcong.

    Even assasination doesn't carry that type of collateral damage.

    1. Re:Slick or sick by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      30 people die for every "terrorist" killed by a drone

      Citation?

    2. Re:Slick or sick by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 4, Informative

      There are many articles about the poor ratio of intended targets vs. "collateral damage" or civilian deaths.

      http://mic.com/articles/16949/...

      http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/25/...

      But you know that because you can Google too.

      The US now prefers killing poor people in 3rd world countries with robots. Not very brave or noble. Not very good for our standing in the world. Not good for poor people in 3rd world countries.

      In fact, it isn't good for anyone but defense contractors.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    3. Re:Slick or sick by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      The US now prefers killing poor people in 3rd world countries with robots. Not very brave or noble. Not very good for our standing in the world. Not good for poor people in 3rd world countries.

      In fact, it isn't good for anyone but defense contractors.

      It's also absolutely brilliant for Al Qaeda and friends, even more so than the defence contractors. The US achieves essentially zero through their robot assassination programs for themselves (on the off chance that they do hit something other than women, children, and old people, they're quickly and easily replaced), but creates a hugely visible motivation for recruitment into terrorist organisations to avenge the killings.

      Of course then you need even more drone strikes to deal with that, so perhaps that's the whole plan, the more terrorists your drone strikes recruit, the more drones General Atomics and friends get to sell...

    4. Re:Slick or sick by Frank+Burly · · Score: 1

      The CNN report indicates, at worst, about a 1:3 ratio of civilian deaths to combatant deaths. "TBIJ reports that from June 2004 through mid-September 2012, available data indicate that drone strikes killed 2,562 - 3,325 people in Pakistan, of whom 474 - 881 were civilians, including 176 children. TBIJ reports that these strikes also injured an additional 1,228 - 1,362 individuals," This is bad. We should talk about whether it is worth killing one innocent person for each combatant. But this is a very different conversation than the 30:1 conversation suggested by the AC.

    5. Re:Slick or sick by youngone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the more terrorists your drone strikes recruit, the more drones General Atomics and friends get to sell...

      This is the "military–industrial complex" Eisenhower warned about in action.

    6. Re:Slick or sick by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      Your second citation completely contradicts your claim-

      "TBIJ reports that from June 2004 through mid-September 2012, available data indicate that drone strikes killed 2,562 - 3,325 people in Pakistan, of whom 474 - 881 were civilians, including 176 children. TBIJ reports that these strikes also injured an additional 1,228 - 1,362 individuals," according to the Stanford/NYU study.

      Your first citation takes a claim from the second, that only 2% of people killed are "high value targets" and twists that into "only 2% of people killed are terrorists". That is not at all true. A rank and file ISIS member is definitely a terrorist, but not a high value target. Only management level people earn that distinction.

    7. Re:Slick or sick by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      I bought some badasss UAVs for my nephews and youngest son at Christmas for a hundred quid ($142.50) per kid including some spare parts ans extra batteries. The poor US unmanned bunch pays $40 million US per MQ-1 Predator.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    8. Re:Slick or sick by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Slick and efficient if you don't happen to be someone who lives in the affected countries"

      Yes, it's in the abstract: "It's a very slick, efficient way to conduct the war".

      But wasn't war that little thing the president should announce and get approved by the Congress? When did USA declare war to Somalia and Yemen?

      And killing people not at war with without due process, wasn't assassination, a crime both under USA and international laws?

    9. Re:Slick or sick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do people blindly accept these casualty figures? After a strike the bodies are immediately removed from the scene making identifying and classifying the casualty figures a guessing game? The vast majority of these strikes are carried out in the hinterland but those reporting the casualty figures can release the body count within hours of the strike? Did they have prior knowledge of the strike and were already traveling to where the incident took place? Maybe they just interview people in the general area to create there casualty figures? Pakistan and Afghanistan must conduct the most marriage ceremonies in the world since it seems that a great number of strikes are always reported to have killed a wedding party. Sort of like Gaza being the world leader in the number day care centers scattered across the area since every missile strike is reported as hitting day care centers. Of course Hamas would never lie about there casualty statistics. The organizations reporting the casualty count are never questioned and every thing they publish is taken as the truth. If there are westerners in these organizations how is it they can walk around countries with impunity and no fear of any militant group killing them on site or taking them as hostages? Do they get a free pass because they report whatever these militant organizations want hem to report? And of course the organizations would never have their own political axe to grind with the US. They know there is nothing the US can do to verify the reported body count figures and thus expose these organizations as nothing but propaganda outlets.

    10. Re:Slick or sick by cold+fjord · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is the "military–industrial complex" Eisenhower warned about in action.

      Not really, no. The MIC that Eisenhower warned about account for about 40% of GDP at the end of WW2. Since then it has fallen to about 4.5% of GDP. If the MIC were all powerful would it have lost that much economic power? No. The simple fact is that both the military and military spending have scaled to the need. There was huge need in WW2, after that it dropped. There have been occasional spikes, such as Viet Nam, and during the 80s, but the overall trend has been decline since the height of WW2. The end of the Cold War brought significant cutbacks as well.

      The US spends twice as much for social welfare spending than it does for military spending.

      The Military-Industrial Complex is mainly a boogeyman for rousing and scaring progressives.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    11. Re:Slick or sick by Alypius · · Score: 1

      Well, no. They're not at all robots, just remotely-piloted aircraft. How would this be different if the aircraft were a F/A-18E instead?

    12. Re:Slick or sick by youngone · · Score: 1

      Also for fighting endless wars.

    13. Re:Slick or sick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... rousing and scaring progressives ...

      Where's the war on illiteracy, on mental illness, on unwanted pregnancies, on homelessness? When has a US president demanded "You're with us, or against us" on any domestic issue?

      No politician claims ending the war means more money for schools, hospitals, daycare centres, or high-density housing. No, they always claim that peace causes unemployment. The American voters have the stupidity to accept that money not funneled into the MIC magically disappears.

    14. Re:Slick or sick by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

      You can Google this too.

      https://theintercept.com/drone...

      Our government says that virtually no civilians are killed by drones, and we know from as far back as Vietnam that the military lies when it comes to casualties and deaths. If they want to make it sound like the war is going well, they boost the number of enemy killed. If they want to make the drone program sound precise, they lie about the civilian casualties. That's their business model.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    15. Re:Slick or sick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      MIC jobs are one of the last holdouts of the middle class. Many of those jobs have to be done in the US. By shifting that money to other areas of the economy, then it goes to a sector that can be outsourced and it does magically disappear, at least from the US.

    16. Re:Slick or sick by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1
      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    17. Re:Slick or sick by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

      The pilots would possibly be endangered. I knew someone here would complain that I used the term robot. UAVs are remote controlled robots.

      In my opinion, and that of many others, killing people overseas when there is no declared war is a war crime. A very, very serious war crime.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    18. Re:Slick or sick by Alypius · · Score: 1

      Heh, sorry, I wasn't complaining; I've encountered a few people who think that UAVs are evil but a manned jet is just peachy. I should have higher expectations for /. As far as pilots being in danger, it's pretty unlikely given who we're currently after. Manned or unmanned, we're out of range of anything they have, with the exception of low-flying aircraft, like the A-10 or helos. The US hasn't declared war since FDR. AUMFs, like them or not, are the "new normal." (That's not an argument in favor of drone strikes; merely saying that declaring war, or even saying the word "war," is politically unpopular.)

    19. Re:Slick or sick by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

      Agreed. The US is no longer occupying the moral high ground. We only attack countries that can't defend themselves, and then when someone tries to strike back with a terrorist attack we act shocked. Personally, I believe that the US is trying to instigate more terror attacks in order to justify our obscene military budget and aggression around the world. It's job security for the military-congressional-defense contractor complex. They should at least be honest and change the name from the "defense dept." to either the "offense dept." or the "war dept.". We aren't defending anything, but we sure are attacking lots of things.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    20. Re:Slick or sick by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      While I agree that drone strikes aren't as surgical as the administration is making them out to be - and should be far better - both articles you cited are misleading. The CNN article, for instance, says that only 1 in 50 people killed is a "high-level" target. That means the ratio of enemy combatants to civilians is probably much better, seeing as high-level targets are often accompanied by lower-level targets. The Mic article references a NYT article that makes the same mistake.

      That isn't to say I support the drone strikes - I do think there's still an unacceptable level of off-target kills. I also think that it's an easy choice for the US to make, as it's much cheaper and easier to stop if they want to, but I think ultimately it hurts both innocent civilians and US interests in the long term.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    21. Re:Slick or sick by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      Where's the war on illiteracy

      You mean the public education system? Or the many literacy programs that public libraries offer?

      on mental illness, on unwanted pregnancies, on homelessness

      How would a "war on mental illness" be fought? Should there be taxpayer-funded clinics for people to get lithium, etc.? As for unwanted pregnancies - ever hear of Planned Parenthood? Sex Ed could be a lot better in many US states, true, but the Feds don't have the authority to force that issue. Homelessness is tough to deal with, true, and we should be doing more.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    22. Re:Slick or sick by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

      The US has a habit of setting bad precedents these days and that is especially true of drone assassinations. Now every country will want a drone fleet, and we have given them all the excuses they need to employ them to "kill terrorists". Of course, like us, they will be the ones who decide what a terrorist is. UK courts just decided that journalists should not be considered terrorists, indicating that we are in a world of hurt when that question even comes up.

      http://www.theguardian.com/com...

      How can the US complain when other countries deploy drones to "kill terrorists"? It can be done much cheaper than our drone program, and with much less high-end technology. You just need a video camera on an RCA big enough to carry an explosive payload. What goes around comes around. But then again, I am sure that is the whole point. The US wants instability, or we wouldn't be forcing regime change all over the place. I can't imagine that the government hasn't figured out that regime change leads to conflict, civil war and refugee crises. In fact, it happens every time.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    23. Re:Slick or sick by youngone · · Score: 1
      If Eisenhower was warning the US about World War II military spending, then why did he make the speech January 17, 1961?

      but the overall trend has been decline since the height of WW2...

      Not according to the Washington Post

      You're awarethat the US has the world's largest military budget aren't you?

      You're wrong.

    24. Re:Slick or sick by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      Where's the war on illiteracy, on mental illness, on unwanted pregnancies, on homelessness?

      It's doing about as well as the war on drugs from what I hear.

    25. Re:Slick or sick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not even wrong. You simply are irrelevant.

      And wrong.

      Since you don't actually have a clue what the political purpose of a military is.

      BTW, do you know the difference between an elementary school and a bomb factory?

      Hey, man, I just fly the drone.

    26. Re:Slick or sick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, how scientific. "We have a number, so we know it's false, because numbers have been false before."

      IOW, you have nothing, but want to sound involved.

  3. Good luck ... by PPH · · Score: 2

    ... basing any assets at remote locations in Africa

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  4. Secret base? by vux984 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Chabelley Airfield is less than 10 miles from the capital of the small African nation of Djibouti"

    So much for the secret base

    1. Re:Secret base? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So much for the secret base

      It was never a secret. Anybody that cares has long known that America runs drone ops out of Djibouti. We also have an artillery range there. When I was a Marine, we made a training stop in Djibouti. The people there were very friendly and very pro-American, which surprised me since I had never before met any friendly pro-American French speakers.

    2. Re:Secret base? by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The French have always been pro-America since the war of Independence, but this suffered a massive hit due to the awesome diplomacy skills of your previous President. You did say you're an ex-Marine, so maybe you've only experienced the post George W Bush version of the French?

    3. Re:Secret base? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The population is also 90% Muslim, and they have a somewhat saner "life + 30 years" copyright term. Interesting country.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Secret base? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Anybody that cares has long known...
          We care, and read to catch up. We already know bases exist maybe just not where or its name. Please do not insult those of us who are just finding out. We were not all marines visiting that exact spot.

      >...I had never before met any friendly pro-American French speakers.
          You need to get out more. And I mean not militarily.

    5. Re:Secret base? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'd presumed it wasn't. I was mostly taking a shot at the click bait headline.

    6. Re:Secret base? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      We care, and read to catch up. We already know bases exist maybe just not where or its name.

      So it should be called an "obscure base" or a "little known base" not a "secret base". This is not a secret base.

    7. Re:Secret base? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Oh? I hate to do it but it is inactive Marine Not "was a Marine."

      Yeah, I hate it too. Sometimes, just to piss off some friends, I'll call myself a former Marine. That's always good for a tussle.

      Anyhow, found out why I'm sick. I have pneumonia. It would appear that I have probably had it for some time.

      At any rate... What was your MOS? I spent eight years. The first was 0311 for about half. Then I switched to 3531 which spanned my re-up, per "guarantee" and finished out my tranquil days as 5814 which mostly meant that I often "volunteered" to transport inmates - notice the 3531. I did a /lot/ of training with 5616.

      I had loads of fun, blow up all sorts of shit, and generally made buddies that will last forever. The funny thing is, well, I was able to experience combat and every rotten crotch Mary, apple pie, or fucking idiot with a fake as USMC license plate rack thinks I fought for them. Fucking idiots. I fought because the kid next to me had a whole in his fucking arm and was still returning fire. I fought for the dumb bastard beside me yelling, "Come get me you fags!" I did not like it, no, not one bit.

      Semper Fi and you're not always a dick. That's as nice as I'm prepared to be. If the missus or my housekeeper catch me out here typing then I'm in trouble so I have to make this quick. I'm grateful for the Marines, they paid me to go to school, I had to re-up in order to get my PhD but I had a hell of a good time.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    8. Re:Secret base? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Well, I fucked that one up. The FFL typically speak highly of the USMC - in case you're curious.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  5. Clickbait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Same as the stories about Hillary and Flint, GMO crops, etc., etc.

  6. Jah booty by rmdingler · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The problem is truly with killing folks remotely. With no more thought or remorse than laying waste to a competitor in a video game, lives are erased without getting yuor hands dirty.

    In the past, force multipliers like rifles, grenades, and rockets were used to up the death toll while keeping the participants hands from being as bloodied, and it is unclear this has been for the better.

    A rational young man forced to war by draft or patriotism is much, much more likely to quickly have his fill of it standing close to the death and horror.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:Jah booty by adolf · · Score: 1

      Why do you assume that drone pilots are any more or less remorseful for the killing they do, than any other pilot tasked with killing people?

    2. Re:Jah booty by allawalla · · Score: 1

      On the surface your statement sounds really good, I certainly believe that I would get sick of violence very quickly after seeing it first hand. However, why is it that war has continued for so long, and in fact I would say that the world is more anti-war than at any time in the past, even though are weapons are now much more effective at removing us from the scene? Maybe being present at particularly heinous acts actually numbs us to the reality of the event, and it is only when we can witness the killing from a distance that we can begin to dream of an alternative.

    3. Re:Jah booty by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      We've been killing people remotely for almost 100 years. I don't see a fundamental difference between a B-29 and a Reaper drone.

    4. Re:Jah booty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trouble is, it doesn't really work this way. The military works hard to brainwash soldiers into believing the enemy are a lower form of life and killing them is akin to squishing mice. Witness the atrocities US soldiers performed against the bodies of dead Japanese soldiers and the trophy heads they mailed home for examples. Warning: Graphic photos!

    5. Re: Jah booty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the data says so.

    6. Re:Jah booty by rmdingler · · Score: 2

      We've been killing people remotely for almost 100 years. I don't see a fundamental difference between a B-29 and a Reaper drone.

      One difference I perceive is that you run no personal risk of being shot down from the Controls of the Reaper.

      And look long and hard into the act of flying your B-29 in over cities, much like the one you live in yourself, before releasing the bombs in your wake... even from there, you're more connected to the idea of war being the destruction of another's humanity.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    7. Re:Jah booty by Deadstick · · Score: 1

      On the surface your statement sounds really good, I certainly believe that I would get sick of violence very quickly after seeing it first hand.

      On the first Christmas of WW1, troops came out of the trenches en masse on both sides and shared an observance. The following Christmases, most of them just kept on shooting.

      Some people are sickened; some are hardened.

    8. Re:Jah booty by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      We're animals with extensive symbolic reasoning systems bolted on at the last minute. Our basic natures are brutish and short-sighted as any other animal.

      But. We have the something in us that gets us out there the 1st year, and no haplorhini (nor other mammal) exhibits a similar tendency.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    9. Re:Jah booty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The USA has lost ALL the respect it formerly had in the world.
      From defeating the scheming tyrants in WWII, to being a scheming tyrant, and now MURDERER, ever since 2001.
      FUCK THE USA!

    10. Re:Jah booty by physicsphairy · · Score: 2

      But the people who make the decisions about who is going to be killed already may never set foot on the battlefield. And veterans aren't to my knowledge the major component of war protesters.

      On the other hand remote combat (theoretically) removes much of the incentive for killing. If you are out on the battlefield, killing is how you guarantee your personal survival. Armies have historically dealt with non-violent acts such as desertion with on-site execution of their own men because of their own personal stakes in victory. We even accept "I was afraid for my life" as a justification to kill back at home. But that argument doesn't work if you are safe in an office controlling a robot. With robots you can justify waiting to see if the person reaching for their pocket is going to pull out a gun or a detonator. You can justify non-lethal response even if it is.

      Not saying we will automatically pursue that. But it's a possible future, given the technology.

    11. Re:Jah booty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is truly with killing folks remotely. With no more thought or remorse than laying waste to a competitor in a video game, lives are erased without getting yuor hands dirty.

      In the past, force multipliers like rifles, grenades, and rockets were used to up the death toll while keeping the participants hands from being as bloodied, and it is unclear this has been for the better.

      A rational young man forced to war by draft or patriotism is much, much more likely to quickly have his fill of it standing close to the death and horror.

      yeah, BUFFs, Bears, H-6Ks really allow you to get close to your target and see them.

      Let me point out that the pilots on these drones tend to see their targets MUCH more than do regular bomber pilots.

    12. Re:Jah booty by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, recent studies show that the remote pilots do have PTSD issues....they don't just fly a drone in, launch a missile from 20 miles, and leave. The pilots often work 10-12 hour shifts 6 days a week, and they often follow their targets for weeks if not months before any attacks. After the attack, the drone has to hang out and continue watching, doing an assessment of the damage; ie a body count. The drone team (usually three people) has to count and catalog each dead body. It's highly stressful; these soldiers know damn well it's NOT a video game, they know they are actually killing people. And when they do go home from the office, they can't talk to anyone about the burning bodies of the children they had to tally up that day.

      Here's more articles on this, if you don't believe me.

    13. Re: Jah booty by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      See my above post, the "data" says your absolutely wrong Anonymous Coward.

    14. Re:Jah booty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You see this? This is what the US is fighting. They have the long term goal of coming to your country and city, cutting off the heads of your men, turning your women into sex slaves, lootting everything else. They want to rule THE ENTIRE WORLD. Where are you located? I don't want to feel bad when they get there.

    15. Re:Jah booty by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "On the surface your statement sounds really good, I certainly believe that I would get sick of violence very quickly after seeing it first hand. However, why is it that war has continued for so long?"

      Because the youngsters that go to war, generation after generation, is the first time that are youngsters.

    16. Re:Jah booty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when they do go home from the office, they can't talk to anyone about the burning bodies of the children they had to tally up that day.

      I suppose they wouldn't need to worry about such things if they didn't kill children in the first place.

      I'm sorry, but this is not an excuse. Cruise missiles are sent to a target potentially hundreds of miles away, in which time children might enter the target zone during transit and no-one realizes this until it's all over. Drones have cameras, hovering around under direct control from a human operator. Given enough time to observe, they'll know precisely the state of things of their target, who's in the area and what casualties should be expected. This also means children. The ordinance delivered by a drone, compared to a cruise missile, is effectively instant.

      If they still decide to fire when children are a guaranteed casualty then fuck 'em. They hold the trigger, they can refuse. They won't be shot - at worst they'll be court marshaled and someone else will take over to carry out the order. Better on their conscious than to kill kids.

    17. Re:Jah booty by Alypius · · Score: 1

      You should probably read the numerous articles about UAV pilots who have the added stress of compartmentalizing their work. When we're overseas, we get into a "deployment bubble" where, sure, we email and skype back home, but we're largely focused on the job. These guys don't have that and it's pretty rough to fly a mission and then pick up milk on the way home. Also, as I asked another poster, how would this be different if a manned aircraft were used? Or do you not like air power at all?

    18. Re:Jah booty by Alypius · · Score: 1

      ...says the teenager from his bedroom in his parents' Orange County mansion. Ingrate.

    19. Re:Jah booty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've been killing people remotely for almost 100 years. I don't see a fundamental difference between a B-29 and a Reaper drone.

      You are one stupid sack of shit if you cannot discern multiple differences.

      I hope you don't breed, the world doesn't need any more idiots.

    20. Re:Jah booty by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      So what's a fundamental difference, anonymous genius?

    21. Re:Jah booty by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      And look long and hard into the act of flying your B-29 in over cities, much like the one you live in yourself, before releasing the bombs in your wake

      That explains why those bomber crews refused to drop nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. No...wait...they actually killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.

    22. Re:Jah booty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... the burning bodies of the children ...

      Yes, pity those drone operators for committing war crimes. The USA had something to say about "just following orders" in 1946; it's good to see they didn't mean it.

    23. Re:Jah booty by chthon · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but they kept shooting because none of the belligerent parties leaders wanted such observances to be the case in the following years, so they made sure that it was not to be repeated.

    24. Re:Jah booty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You make that a blanket statement, but reality is that deaths face a kind of calculus. If 'daddy' is about to kill dozens, then smiting him at ome with the wife and kids is still (mostly) moral.

    25. Re:Jah booty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So killing drone pilots is fine, is what you're saying?

    26. Re:Jah booty by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      To kill people before drones you had to send people to do it in person. That was risky, they could be killed or captured. It created political problems with sending personnel into other countries, or having bases in helicopter range, or travelling long distances on the ground in hostile territory.

      Drone strikes are relatively risk free for commanders to order. The worst that is likely to happen is you kill a bunch of innocent civilians, who you then classify as a mixture of enemy combatants, supporters of terrorism and collateral damage.

      What is often missed is the risk to civilians of the country using drones. When you wage an asymmetric war like that the only way for the other side to fight back is terrorist attacks against your civilian population.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    27. Re:Jah booty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The morality of aggressive violent acts depends on the motivation. There is such a thing as a just war, as in a legitimate war where violence done reduces the total harm resulting from a conflict.

    28. Re:Jah booty by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      On the first Christmas of WW1, troops came out of the trenches en masse on both sides and shared an observance. The following Christmases, most of them just kept on shooting.

      Some people are sickened; some are hardened.

      And in this case, all were generals that gave specific orders that banned the practice. In their nice, warm chateaus, miles from the front.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  7. Would Africa be better of had it stayed colonized? by swb · · Score: 2, Informative

    It seems like whatever moral victory was obtained in the decolonization process in the 50s and 60s was lost (and then some) in the chaos and kleptocracy that followed.

    Were the British colonies horrible, apartheid-style military dictatorships or were they something perhaps paternalistic but not repressive? Were many of them evolving in terms of local autonomy or civil rights, or just staying repressive?

    I guess I'm trying not to assume their past was rosy, but I wonder how many adults who remember 1950s Rhodesia look back from Mugabe's Zimbabwe and think maybe being Rhodesian wasn't so bad.

    I'd have to guess that access to the UK economy would have been beneficial and that the colonial officials would have made sure the roads and electricity worked.

  8. Re: Why is a political article like this on Slashd by desperados · · Score: 1

    Totally agree. I love technology. For politics and shit there is the everyday news

  9. Good job keeping it secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now we have to move. Again. You'll pay for that.

  10. lel critics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Critics contend targeted strikes against militants are illegal under American and international law and tantamount to assassination.

    Against American citizens? Sure, there's shaky legality there. Tell the IRS that you're not an American citizen and they'll laugh at you. So no, Derpa Derpa Bin Target saying, "I'm not a citizen!" doesn't cut it as an excuse, unless you're a robe-wearing idiot crapping down Lady Justice's mouth.

    For everyone else?

    Yeah, sorry, it's not the 17th century where you'd send a horseman with a very strongly worded protest because Conscript McGee took a potshot at General Butthead. Shit hasn't worked that way for centuries, and there's no going back. Don't want a Hellfire dropped on your head? Don't bring a rusty ass Toyota and an AK-47 up against a superpower.

    So sorry that military action isn't tilting upon the field of chivalry.

  11. Re:Would Africa be better of had it stayed coloniz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I blame Rome. Rome burned out and didn't go deep enough in to Africa.

    Rome laid waste across Western Europe, and "de-tribed" it, knocking down the small units of people bent on killing each other. From this void (when Rome retracted), we got the rise of the nation states, which while still bent on killing each other, it was much more macro than the tribalism that remained in Africa. 10-15 states killing each other is much more manageable (and costly) than 100-200 states do it. So, they tend to Not Do That, and use different sources of power to get their way.

    If Rome pushed on and consolidated Africa, we'd probably have fewer issues with the continent today.

  12. Iraq and Afghanistan are not 'mistakes' by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    The goal is destabilization to scare off competing 'investments' and keep the Russians in a box. Mission accomplished!

    Small, distributed bases make a lot of sense. A lesson I would hope was learned in Pearl Harbor. You know, *eggs in one basket*, etc. And not just for the drones, they blend in a tiny bit better... Could even make them unmanned, with automated fueling spigots and and weapons loading, operating in the dark.

    When does Genesis launch?

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Iraq and Afghanistan are not 'mistakes' by humptheElephant · · Score: 1

      Really? Not a mistake? What is your evidence? How much has it cost the United States? How much has it cost the countries we invaded? What is the long term cost to our country?

    2. Re:Iraq and Afghanistan are not 'mistakes' by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Costs for some, profits for others. The people that profit from war do not consider it a 'mistake'. While you chatter on about politics and 'morality', they are conducting business. And right now, war is very good business, for some.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  13. The lily pad basing model by AHuxley · · Score: 4, Informative

    has been around for years. The US gets "invited" in by some emerging democracy, leader and builds a small camp with a runway.
    Just like in another few nations in the region.
    Just how very "very slick" and "efficient" can be found in the Drone Papers https://theintercept.com/drone...
    The Pentagon's New Generation of Secret Military Bases (Jul. 16, 2012)
    How the Pentagon is quietly transforming its overseas base empire and creating a dangerous new way of war.
    http://www.motherjones.com/pol...
    As for the US 'French" connection? Clinton Email Shows that Oil and Gold Were Behind Regime Change In Libya (01/09/2016)
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/...

    Will the US vision of a remote war work? For that the US needs constant signals intelligence ie people have to walk around with electronics that is "on" and been in use. Shared electronics or electronics thats just been driven around randomly could be another part of the puzzle.
    Another method was to hand out tagging and tracking systems to local "freedom fighters" or US trained "moderates" to then place near people of interest. Such efforts can get used to quickly settle local issues rather than the US expected role for easy leadership decapitation.
    The US is still trying to reduce flight time and get more loitering time.
    Great news for the contractors and mercenaries working hours. Just like the Vietnam war base funding, pacification ideas and search and destroy zones but no complex draft politics back home.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:The lily pad basing model by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Will the US vision of a remote war work?

      It had better, since the Chinese are already well under way doing the same thing.

    2. Re:The lily pad basing model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Will the US vision of a remote war work?

      The better question is 'is this war'. The piece in The Intercept was great, because it points out the huge number of civilian casualties due to the 'precision drone operations', but there are a lot of people who say: 'true, people die, but compare this war to the bombing campaigns in WWII'.

      Well, the bad news is that this is no war, but a kind of illegal policing action, perpetrated 'because we can', and to test new weapons.

      This is the kind of policy that stirs up the emigration waves like the one hitting Europe now.

      Started far, far away by people who are doing it for profit, no question marks.

  14. Not a fan by tsotha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't like this kind of stuff very much. It seems like this administration is willing to get us involved in every conflict on the globe... but not very much involved. Enough to piss all the locals off, but not enough to affect the outcome of whatever is going on. I'd rather see the US adhere to the so-called "Powell Doctrine" (much older than Powell) - stay out of other peoples' business until significant national interests are really at stake. And if you have to go to war you don't do it half-assed.

    1. Re:Not a fan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except it is now a much more entrenched "national interest" to keep arms manufacturers fed massive contracts. Can't do that if you aren't using up your fancy new consumables.

    2. Re:Not a fan by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, it's as politically expedient as it is dubiously effective. Who wants to be weak on defense? Nobody. Who wants to be responsible for dragging us into a quagmire and lots of flag draped coffins? Nobody. It isn't actually clear that you can win much of a war from the air, even when you are willing to use WWII-scale bomber groups and tolerance for massive civilian casualties, much less with a handful of spooks and some model aircraft; but it is a great way of telling voters that you are Really Serious about getting tough on terrorists and ethniclashistan without incurring much real risk.

      I imagine that the people within the defense apparatus who write boring theoretical papers that mostly nobody reads will relatively quickly conclude that this sort of thing is of very limited use unless your problem really is just a few irreplaceable guys or you have competent local buddies willing to provide the ground forces for you; but it's a lot harder to see people becoming disillusioned with the political value of the strategy: almost as good for your hawk credentials as a real war; but markedly lower risk and so ill-defined that it's almost as hard to "lose" in any definite way as it is to "win" in some coherent sense.

    3. Re:Not a fan by Mr.CRC · · Score: 1

      In order to be "weak on defense," there must first be an offense. There isn't one. There hasn't been any "threat" to the US that couldn't be prevented by simply not letting certain people into the country, since the WWII era.

    4. Re:Not a fan by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      I don't like this kind of stuff very much. It seems like this administration is willing to get us involved in every conflict on the globe... but not very much involved.

      That is the result of the nature of the ongoing conflicts. They aren't big tank battles between the armies of two countries, they are gorilla warfare and terrorism. The Powell Doctrine isn't really applicable.

      In some places all that is needed is intelligence assistance to the locals, an occasional drone strike or special forces raid. Tank brigades aren't helpful for that.

      Either tamp down the problem before it takes root when Jihadis start infiltrating, or the problem may become much larger and require substantial assistance. Then it will take far more than what is being used now.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    5. Re:Not a fan by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      That only works when the enemy is a country with a standing army. When it becomes a rag tag bunch of civilians that it is now, the solution is not so simple.

    6. Re:Not a fan by tsotha · · Score: 1

      What are we doing in Africa? Is there some big armada launching from Mauritania to invade Florida? Is there really some big threat there the Africans couldn't handle?

    7. Re:Not a fan by tsotha · · Score: 1

      Isn't it? Why can't we just leave them alone and not allow them inside our borders?

    8. Re:Not a fan by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Isn't it? Why can't we just leave them alone and not allow them inside our borders?

      Who is "them"? The most recent terrorist events (San Bernadino & Paris) were done by local citizens.

    9. Re:Not a fan by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Since when were Colorado Springs and the Malheur reserve not terrorist events?

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    10. Re:Not a fan by tsotha · · Score: 1

      San Bernadino would have been a one-man job if we had a sane immigration policy. No way the wife should have been allowed in the country. Not only did she broadcast her intentions on social media, she didn't even put a real address on her paperwork. Anyway, it's clear our strategy of bombing mud huts in Africa isn't actually working, wouldn't you say?

      The French are screwed. But that's not something we need to consider in US foreign policy.

    11. Re:Not a fan by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      I don't like this kind of stuff very much. It seems like this administration is willing to get us involved in every conflict on the globe... but not very much involved. Enough to piss all the locals off, but not enough to affect the outcome of whatever is going on. I'd rather see the US adhere to the so-called "Powell Doctrine" (much older than Powell) - stay out of other peoples' business until significant national interests are really at stake. And if you have to go to war you don't do it half-assed.

      The target countries specified are part of the larger war being fought against Al-Qaeda and Daesh (IS) :

      Somalia
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...

      Yemen
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      http://www.businessinsider.com...

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    12. Re:Not a fan by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      but not enough to affect the outcome of whatever is going on.

      Rest assured it only seems that way because we don't know what their actual long-term objective is.

    13. Re:Not a fan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That seems pretty out of character for the current administration. In fact that would be feeding the coffers of his political rivals. As wide as the split between parties is, I don't see some mass conspiracy by the Democratic administration to feed dollars to the arms manufacturers who are going to turn around and fund the defense friendly Republican party candidates.

    14. Re:Not a fan by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Oh, I'd be inclined to agree; but as long as you can get north of 50% support for bombing fictional countries when polling, it's a bit of an uphill sell.

      Isn't it cheery how much more time we spend blowing things up abroad now that we have a Department of Defense, unlike our old barbaric ways when we had a Department of War?

    15. Re:Not a fan by khallow · · Score: 1

      One obvious factor is that Africa will eventually be the sole source of population growth in the world (after around 2060 or so). The more stable it is, the lower the eventual population will be (assuming die-offs don't happen).

    16. Re:Not a fan by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Sorry I don't know what these are. Unfortunately due to the sheer amount of gun violence in the US, most of it fails to make the International news.
      The point still stands though, how would banning all international travel have helped in the cases of San Bernadino and Paris?

    17. Re:Not a fan by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Anyway, it's clear our strategy of bombing mud huts in Africa isn't actually working, wouldn't you say?

      Impossible to say. Since most of our information comes from the news, which is proven to be unreliable, there are simply not enough facts to make that call.
      However one thing I'm sure of, the idea of banning all international travel is a pretty dumb one. It would kill the economy overnight, and people would be starving in the streets before the month is out.

    18. Re:Not a fan by volmtech · · Score: 1

      Give it a rest. Local citizens who where new or first generation immigrants from the Middle East.

    19. Re:Not a fan by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Give it a rest.

      Er, that's not how discussions work sorry...

      Local citizens who where new or first generation immigrants from the Middle East.

      Oh so you want to retro-actively apply it? How far back do you go? The Native Americans will be pleased, you should sign up for one of their support groups.

  15. Call it what it is: Murder. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's a very slick, efficient way to conduct the war, without having to have the massive ground invasion mistakes of Iraq and Afghanistan.

    It's not much of a "war" if your opponent has no way to defend themselves much less retaliate against your attacks.

    Considering we also have a problem with cruelty, being able to determine when we are bombing a hospital and stopping the act, and making little kids fear the sky, I don't think assassination goes quite far enough to describe the US governments use of drones in combat. It's pure murder, caused by people who have gone insane with power, accountable to no one. Who will complain? The dead victims families? Who never saw the attacks coming? Who would take responsibility? A government that places no value on the lives of others during war, and places so much money into their war machine that attempting to get them to back down would require support from the entire world? No one should be able to kill like that. Not an individual, not a government, no one. The US government should be condemned and punished for their actions and the use of these things. I say that as a US Citizen, albeit as an AC, as even I would fear those drones being used on us.

    1. Re:Call it what it is: Murder. by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Killing the enemy is killing, not murder. They decided they wanted to make war on the US and it allies and now they are paying the price.

      Your lines about "people who have gone insane with power" and "accountable to no one" are bullshit.

      You don't like it? Vote for someone else. I'll let you in on a secret - pretty much anyone likely to win will do the same thing. The US isn't going to let them kill American citizens and allies without paying a price.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    2. Re:Call it what it is: Murder. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Note same AC.

      Killing the enemy is killing, not murder.

      The above quote means you are justifying their deaths in someway. If you actually read my comment, you'd see I was referring to innocent bystanders and unintentional civilian targets. People who did NOT decide to make war on the US and it's allies, not "the enemy".

      Given that, I'd like to know how you are justifying the deaths of those innocent civilians.

      Your lines about "people who have gone insane with power" and "accountable to no one" are bullshit.

      OK, let's see you try to identify the origin of a missile strike from a drone so high up in the air you can't see it with the naked eye. Then try and hold accountable the person on the other side of the world who told it to fire on your grandmother, an attacker whom you've never seen. Let's see you do that while also drumming up support to prevent the attacks in the future against an adversary with virtually unlimited funds, no qualms about killing innocent people, and droves of ignorant / arrogant supporters who don't know / care about what is done, or how it's done, so long as terrorism is stopped.

      Still think that you can hold these people accountable? That your cries would not fall on deaf ears? Do you think that these people have any incentive NOT to kill people when there is virtually no chance of being caught and held accountable for their actions? After they've already admitted that they kill "fun sized terrorists" A.K.A. children? (A statement which shows just how much they don't give a fuck.)

      Please tell me how killing children in foreign countries, and getting away with it, is not allowing power to go to your head and being completely accountable for your actions.

      You don't like it? Vote for someone else. I'll let you in on a secret - pretty much anyone likely to win will do the same thing. The US isn't going to let them kill American citizens and allies without paying a price.

      Once again read my comment. Those people did not kill American citizens. Hell, the DoD can't even identify some of the people they've killed. How can you possibly say they've killed Americans if you can't even identify them? No, just because they "look like a terrorist" is not an excuse that justifies killing them. All you will do by that standard is create more justification for attacking the US that the real terrorists will use to their advantage. "Hey, these people killed your parents. Wanna help us kill them and get them out of our country?"

      But yes, I'm well aware of the prospects of changing this issue from within the US in the immediate future. Although I'd like to think that some politician in the US would consider killing innocent people in foreign countries as an abhorrent act that should be addressed. If for nothing else than at least attempting to make the US look like a mature and respectable nation on the world stage, rather than a nation of knee-jerk reactionaries that lash out indiscriminately against anything and anyone like a bunch of savages.

      I'd also like to think that the majority of people in the US would not like the same tech turned on and used against them, in their own backyard. That the people in the US would recognize the fact that not everyone in foreign countries is a terrorist / communist / $BOOGEYMAN_OF_THE_GENERATION and that they should be good worldly neighbors to them. Especially when they've done nothing deserving of retaliation.

    3. Re:Call it what it is: Murder. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By the magical word of "enemy" I shall grant you the power to kill and maim anybody on this planet, without consequences. -- The Murder Fairy

    4. Re:Call it what it is: Murder. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your commentary would be correct if we were in a state of war, which we are not. I mean an actual, declared war, not the current state of rhetorical war.

      Also, we could make the enemies pay a price in peacetime through police action, which we currently do not.

      Targeted assassination is pretty accurate. We kill with no judge, no jury, no verdict, no public disclosure, no oversight (except for claimed 'secret oversight', which does not fulfill the needs of a free and democratic society). We're not fools, a lot of these people are truly bad and need to be dealt with. However by doing it under a veil of secrecy, and claiming that 'we have our reasons, trust us', the result undermines trust. If the Islamic extremists did this (and guess what, they do!), we'd decry their barbarity and say that they have an inward turned and self-justifying morality. We say we are better than them, which places on us an obligation to be, you know, better than them.

      Or do you simply hew to tribalism and the cult of 'us versus them'?

    5. Re:Call it what it is: Murder. by LienRag · · Score: 1

      What is interesting is that China has its own killer drones now....
      The time when inviting the Dalaï-Lama will be cause for exploding suddenly will probably be interesting to watch.

  16. War is PROFITABLE for those in control. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The U.S. government has killed, or caused the death of, an estimated 11,000,000 people since the end of the 2nd world war.

    War is extremely profitable for some corporations: House of Bush, House of Saud by Craig Unger. Bush and Cheney started a war that was profitable for them.

    In some ways, the U.S. government is the most violent government on earth. For example, the U.S. has the largest percentage of its citizens in prison, of any country, in any century. The prison system is hugely profitable for prison corporations.

    ACLU: With only 5% of the world's population, the U.S. has 25% of the world's prison population.

    ThinkProgress: The United States Has The Largest Prison Population In The World -- And It's Growing.

  17. Re:Would Africa be better of had it stayed coloniz by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    The idea was that internal secret police had to be used to keep independence movements contained. The US did not want to be seen in public supporting such a role in post ww2 Africa. The US liked the idea of supporting new nations that would then be totally dependant on the US and its brands, services with no political issues.
    The UK and some other EU powers tried to stay on for as long as they could under their own local leaders or more direct rule.
    The West was even ready to swap to military dictatorships as long as their NSA and GCHQ stations got to stay in the region.
    eg Silvermine, HMS Vacoas, Heliopolis, Kagnew Ethiopia.
    Keeping a massive secret police was expensive for the UK. Other EU powers had cash flow issues after ww2 into the 1970's.
    The wider media started to note the methods needed to keep independence movements down and what local leaders did under the cover of their colonial masters.

    The cost and optics started to catch up with EU nations selling a freedom loving message into the 1950-70's.
    Local autonomy or token civil rights was not freedom from another nations monarchy, rules, taxation, military.
    Would any nation like to have its leadership, faith, courts ruled from another nation?
    For the West it was often just about trade and mil access at the lowest cost. Full independence and huge new bank loans was cheaper than troops been lost on the ground.

    Re "UK economy would have been.. " The UK did not have the free cash to run, police control parts of Africa and support its own internal post ww2 rebuilding.
    Too many camera crews would have seen the results of UK police or mil actions and told the world after the 1950's.
    The UK role in more Mau Mau Uprising like events would not have made for good TV every night if seen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    Other nations had the same raw materials much cheaper or new advanced materials became more interesting globally.
    Now the US has to go back and do the same deals with local leaders for bases.

    China, even Vietnam had the real smarts when it came to supporting Africa. Help the locals with growing food, building rail, energy, mines, jobs ie not just huge cash loans that the West liked giving nations leadership so much.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  18. summary is way too long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, the summary is way too long.
    What a bunch of text.

    1. Re:summary is way too long by rmdingler · · Score: 1
      Clever bastards!

      Got us to read the whole bloody article...

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

  19. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2, Informative

    "It's hilarious that we see so many good Slashdot comments modded "Troll" or "Flamebait" so often, when it's stories like this that are far worse than those comments ever are."

    Because Troll == 'I strongly disagree' and Flamebait == "Not only do I strongly disagree, but the poster might even be a Republican."

  20. Re: Why is a political article like this on Slashd by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    'cause STAR TREK already did this! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  21. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by justthinkit · · Score: 1

    Because (frequent) submitter runs Peace Corp Online.

    --
    I come here for the love
  22. Why require a land presence at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if they yet have plans to rigged up a custom C130 refit for launching drones aerially and a C130 refit for recovery.

    put C&C on an AWACS or similar aerial refuelable platform and you could just shit out some drones over a problem area 1000 miles away, perform whatever strikes necessary to start, then second refit c130 recovers the now weaponless drones.

    course once the area is softened you could then established a small land based C&C / airstrip installation for long term coverage.

  23. Re:Would Africa be better of had it stayed coloniz by swb · · Score: 2

    It's a curious argument, but Rome did colonize Africa. Most of North Africa was controlled by Rome and largely part of the Roman empire after the fall of Carthage and the Jugurthine war. And the Romans controlled most of the middle East, although beyond Damascus it was frequently challenged by the Parthians.

    And pretty much all of those places are a train wreck now, with plenty of tribal conflicts. In fact, bribing tribal leaders to abandon loyalty to al Qaeda was one of the principal counterinsurgency strategies of the US in Iraq.

    You might make the argument that the Romans didn't really eliminate tribalism, but what they did was Romanize them so that while they may have remained kind of tribal they adopted enough Roman culture that their commonalities outweighed their tribal differences to the point where trade and cooperation made the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

  24. No limit to our reach by mdsolar · · Score: 0

    President Obama pointed out that our military spending is extensive and our enemies can't escape us. Glad our pilots can keep out of return fire.

  25. Re:Would Africa be better of had it stayed coloniz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uhhhrrr. First of all, the colonies in Africa were not just British, everyone in Europe had a go. Not saying it was a proud thing, just stating a fact. Second of all, the arrogance that my country and all the other colonial countries had to Africa was in every sense of the word, repulsive. Imagine you are just going about your business, happily enjoying your life, drinking your milk, etcetera etcetera, and suddenly some shithead decides that isn't good enough, they are going to either abduct you and put you on the other side of the world farming cotton, if you are lucky enough to survive the trip (anglo-american version) or keep you where you are, and brutalise you into farming rubber on pain of having one or more your more favourite extremities hacked off (lesser known, but no less shitty belgian version)

    That is colonialism. Take it at face value, if colonialism was beneficial and paternalistic, then it would not have the shitty reputation it has today, and it has the shitty reputation it has today, because it came with crimes committed so casually that you would rather drink your own shit than admit to them. Never mind the fucking fact that the buses ran on time.

    You may as well be saying "well, so we killed your family... but we gave you a playstation! can you imagine what life was like before the playstation?! do you know where to get a playstation?"

    Yes, Africa is a fucked up place. Can you even imagine for a second, how fucked up it would have been without our help?

    That is how indefensible your point of view is.

  26. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by cold+fjord · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Debunking venerated myths or persons is also unwelcome: viz

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  27. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There should be a new mod category for this: -1, Apostasy.

  28. Re:Would Africa be better of had it stayed coloniz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The British colonies were not horrible apartheid-style military dictatorships, but French, Dutch and a couple of the Italian ones were.

    There was a saying amongst the plantation owners in French Indochina (now Vietnam) that "Under every banana tree there is a lazy man" - It was not referring to the workers taking breaks, but to the bodies that were used as fertilizer.

  29. Re: Would Africa be better of had it stayed coloni by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the argument isn't that colonialism was good, but that just as European powers grew enough of a conscience to treat people decently and maybe clean up their mess, they instead left suddenly. This left nations underprepared and unstable.

  30. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

    LOL! +1, insightful!! :)

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  31. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

    There have always been politics on Slashdot?
    You must be new here.

  32. War is nerdy by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

    It turns out you can be a nerd about warfare, too.

    1. Re:War is nerdy by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      That's true, and also about maps and geography.

      Here's the base, based on the shadows under the tail sections I think those are 3 Reapers on the flight line.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  33. Killing but not necessarily okay by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

    Killing the enemy is killing, not murder. They decided they wanted to make war on the US and it allies and now they are paying the price.

    Your lines about "people who have gone insane with power" and "accountable to no one" are bullshit.

    You don't like it? Vote for someone else. I'll let you in on a secret - pretty much anyone likely to win will do the same thing. The US isn't going to let them kill American citizens and allies without paying a price.

    Yes and no. Killing an enemy in a time of war is by definition not murder, but is killing with legal justification. (I.e. a designated enemy in a time of war, plus usually in self-defense or defense of others if the war is legal, since almost every legal war today is couched in self-defense).

    That does not necessarily mean "They decided they wanted to make war on the US and it allies and now they are paying the price." Because (1) the guy you're killing is almost never the one who made that decision, and (2) sometimes you kill the wrong guy. Someone can be an enemy and be just as honorable as an American soldier, just like an American soldier can be just as dishonorable as someone acting on behalf of a bad guy.

    Dehumanizing the enemy is as old as war.

    I'm not defending ISIS--the shit they've pulled, every decision-maker deserves more than whatever happens to him. But some guy holding an AK who's standing near one of the decision-makers may just not want to get his family shot.

    1. Re:Killing but not necessarily okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should read Van Steuben some time. War is not about giving the enemy a fair chance. It is about providing an overwhelming force that the enemy has no hope of defeating, as quickly as possible, because the rational enemy will realize it's futile to fight against such a power and surrender, sparing his family, his home, and most of his possessions (those not being taken by the victor). The more quickly it is over, the more life is spared (assuming that there's not mass executions post-combat)

      If people know that signing up for ISIS is a death sentence and they'll never even SEE their enemies, then recruitment will falter. If they think signing up for ISIS means they will get to kill infidels, take over land, and make a difference, they will join in, just to give their life meaning. In the last year, it's mostly been the latter. It's exciting for these kids. They think they're fulfilling old scripture. The most-effective way of combatting ISIS is to make it clear that joining them leads to dying, without the ability to even fight back, for a meaningless cause. There is, in my mind, a stark line between killing ISIS participants (trainees, soldiers, generals, directors) and killing people that are researching/interested in ISIS, but I'm not in charge of the planet's code of ethics. No one on Slashdot is, so it's fair game to debate.

      What sucks is for the dude that gets conscripted because his hometown was taken over and he was too dumb to get out with his family before it happened. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place, but that goes back to point #1. The faster it's over, the less this is apt to happen to anyone else. In his case, he's better off fighting the enemy he can see (the dudes pointing guns at him) than fighting the enemy he can't see (the drone at 30,000 ft, whose operator can be a world away)

  34. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by mvdwege · · Score: 1

    Says the right-wing crybaby whose parent comment is currently at +5

    Witness right-wing fragility in action, people.

    --
    "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  35. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    Why the heck did a purely-political article like this one end up on the front page of Slashdot?!

    Drones?

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  36. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah. We need to get back to classic Slashdot topics like misandry, or whether or not black people have lower IQs.

  37. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You stupid fuck. You didn't even bother to read the entire comment before replying to it! If you had, you would have seen this part of it:

    And before anyone wastes their time pointing out that this submission is about drones, let me remind you that it isn't. It's about nothing more than the politics around drones. The technology itself is playing second fiddle in this story, well behind the politics.

    Boy, does that make you look like a total dumbass!

  38. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't even know why I'm here. Slashdot jumped the sharks years ago. The news is old and stale. More and more click bait.

  39. What? by DarkOx · · Score: 1

    It's a very slick, efficient way to conduct the war, without having to have the massive ground invasion mistakes of Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Have we gone completely schizo now. I thought the narrative was it was the surge and boots on the ground that finally brought some order to those places, or are we only talking about the narrow context of defeating the traditional military forces there?

    Given the great success that Libya, Yemen, Syria, and to a lessor extent Iraq and Afghanistan I am not see much in the form of experiences we want to repeat. This whole air-power only strategy does not seem to be securing the outcomes we want. I think we could argue that its done little but destabilize the region going all the way back to William Cruise-missile Clinton.

    I am of the opinion if we are not willing to put troops on the ground to create a reasonable security situation after we disrupt whatever it is that is going on we probably have no business meddling. If various groups around the world are upset at our presence and don't like our bases nearby I saw we pack up and go home. My suspicions are they will change their tune when they experience what its like to not have us there. The economic impacts of not having US troops and facilities to create demand in their local economies, our not being a deterrent to the ambitions of would be local bad actors, the suddenly greater influence of regional powers like Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc, and finally the influence of other world powers China, Russia; I suspect all of these things would have them begging for us to come back.

    Much like Russia/(old USSR) did ( intentionally or otherwise ) the best thing we could do is retreat from the world stage for awhile. We have enough lead in weapons tech, and plenty of money and economic influence still to re-assert ourselves once are detractors realize how good things were.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  40. open source warfare by funkymonkjay · · Score: 1

    you will know full well that this war machine is coming and you may contribute by providing negative test cases.
    get to work! we expect many bug reports.

  41. Can we please stop calling it a war? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The US is not fighting a war against Islamic militants. Congress has made no declaration of War. Obama is illegally using the military to engage in unlawful world-wide imperial police actions. That is all that it is. Period. Full stop.

  42. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    the poster might even be a Republican

    It's funny, because I would have said "socialist/Democrat" or "SJW". Soylent might actually be on to something with the Disagree mod, but the troll voting blocks would probably ignore it because it doesn't count as a -1.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  43. Re:Would Africa be better of had it stayed coloniz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems like whatever moral victory was obtained in the decolonization process in the 50s and 60s was lost (and then some) in the chaos and kleptocracy that followed.

    Well, the colonialist states - and the newer powers - made the Africans, Arabs and Asians pay dearly for rising up against their rule. At times this was by setting collaborationst regimes against popular movements; at other times (and places) - direct military actions to quell rebellions; at other times - coopting the new governments from the get-go; and for particularly successful and intransigent independence movements, there's still a lot they can do: Trade emargos, funding and arming rebel factions (which are usually, though not always, worse than the bunch in government), influencing neighboring states to be belligerent or escalate border disputes and so on. Finally, in the economic sphere - the relations are usually super-exploitative, especially when it comes to the private sector.

    Now, it's true that African states have had their share of ethnic/racist/tribal violence breaking out, corrupt officials, military dictatorships and what-not. But, you know, that's like accusing a child beat up by his parents and who didn't get a decent education of not succeeding enough in life. It's true that he can't just lay the blame with others, but statistically - these things happen.

    Were the British colonies horrible, apartheid-style military dictatorships or were they something perhaps paternalistic but not repressive?

    The former. Not the latter. Incredibly repressive. If they had been the latter, they would have evolved into non-colonies by mere advancement of the colonized population.

    Were many of them evolving in terms of local autonomy or civil rights, or just staying repressive?

    I'd say fluctuating. But - Europe was evolving as well; what the Belgians could afford to get away with in the 19th century in the Congo (read up on it if you haven't) was no longer acceptable, even to Europeans, in the latter half of the 20th century. The thing is, you can't extricate the changes in Europe, and maybe the US, with the de-colonization in the most of the rest of the world; those weren't independent processes.

    I guess I'm trying not to assume their past was rosy, but I wonder how many adults who remember 1950s Rhodesia look back from Mugabe's Zimbabwe and think maybe being Rhodesian wasn't so bad.

    That is a false dichotomy. I mean, Rhodesia was bad, and Mogabe's rule is bad (although that too is kind of complicated), but there's no reason why the people of Zimbabwe should not enjoy a non-authoritarian, pro-education, pro-dialog, sustainable-development kind of society.

    I'd have to guess that access to the UK economy would have been beneficial and that the colonial officials would have made sure the roads and electricity worked.

    Let's just say that if the UK economy returned some of the benefit it got from the colonies in the form of proper training and fostering of independent development, the roads and the electricity would have worked anyway.

  44. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

    It really depends on who has mod points at the time, I think. I find that a lot of those controversial articles see everyone get modded down, with maybe a few exceptions. People seem to like modding opposing opinions down more than supporting opinions up.

    I also think most Democrats don't get modded down a lot, unless they're really far left. Moderate left seems to fair better than moderate right here, although YMMV.

    --
    Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
  45. Re:Why is a political article like this on Slashdo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Disagree. Everything is political. You sound like Free-Space demanding SJW. You want your tech porn news without having to look at what affects these things actually have on the world. Slashdot is a site for intelligent and tech savvy users who are able to think critically and want to have some real discussion about how our creations and innovations affect the world around us.

    Go to some mainstream news site if you prefer your news simplified with all the sharp edges removed so you can't hurt yourself.