Google To Take 'Apple-Like' Control Over Nexus Phones (droid-life.com)

Soulskill writes: According to a (paywalled) report in The Information, Google CEO Sundar Pichai wants the company to take greater control over development of their Nexus smartphones. When producing Nexus phones, Google has always partnered with manufacturers, like Samsung, LG, and HTC, who actually built the devices. Rather than creating a true revenue stream, Google's main goal has been to provide a reference for what Android can be like without interference from carriers and manufacturers. (For example, many users are frustrated by Samsung's TouchWiz skin, as well as the bloatware resulting from deals with carriers.

But now, Google appears to want more control. The report indicates Google wants to do a better job of competing throughout the market. They want to compete with Apple on the high end, but also seem concerned that manufacturers haven't put enough effort into quality budget phones. The article at Droid-Life argues, "We all know that Nexus phones will never be household items until Google puts some marketing dollars behind them. Will a top-to-bottom approach finally push them to do that?"

Comments

Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Stormwatch]

I would not buy a phone without a microSD slot, and the Nexus line fails by not including such an essential feature.

But, more important than that: Google definitely should put more pressure on manufacturers and carriers to keep the phones' OS updated for longer.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Microlith]

I disagree. Nexus devices are satisfactory but not exceptional. They lack essential features like SD Card slots and don't really feature any nifty "bits" to mess with, but are the only devices guaranteed over the long term to receive regular updates, and that alone makes them better. Everything else is, by far, less than satisfactory due to the emphasis of gimmicks or poorly implemented features while often neglecting or actively harming security.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[YouGotTobeKidding]

IDK... its not that hard to root and install a custom rom on them these days.Maybe 2 minutes work.... even on Sammys its dead simple nowadays. So much so that 'guaranteed' updates is meh... and not worth the trade-offs that have to be made if I purchase a Nexus model.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[ArmoredDragon]

Google has stated that they don't like SD cards because they create problems from a platform reputation perspective. Apparently it's really common that people use shitty SD cards in their devices, which cause apps to frequently crash when they need to read/write to them.

My only concern with Google taking the bottom to top approach is that they might piss off a lot of OEM partners by competing directly with them. Microsoft did that, and they have basically trashed consumer adoption of their own platform as a result.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[youngone]

I disagree with both Microlith and Stormwatch.

Any phone without a micro SD card slot and a removable battery is of no use to me at all, and I will not buy.

The really fortunate thing with the whole Android range is that Microlith, Stormwatch and I can each buy the phone we want, with the features we need, usually at the price we wish to pay as wel..

There are other types of smartphone too, they don't have the same range of different models, but some people seem to like them.

As far as security goes, the manufacturers are hopeless at providing updates, but for the tech-savvy consumer, updates can be installed, with a small amount of messing around and a custom ROM. I know that's not ideal, and to vast majority of people won't be able to do it, but it is an option.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

They lack essential features like SD Card slots and don't really feature any nifty "bits" to mess with

Tweakers and hackers want that stuff, the vast majority of average customers do not. Those features are "essential" to a tiny minority.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Kenshin]

Sure, they might piss off a lot of OEM partners, but what are those partners going to do? Switch to Windows Phone?

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[SumDog]

Google already has tons of control. Their Open Handset Alliance (the program a company is required to sign with in order to distribute GApps) disallows those companies from offering phones with competing eco-systems. (HTC, Samsung, Sony, etc can never offer a phone with the Amazon app store and services). Google even went after carriers who tried to use a different location service (which is still in court).

Android might be open source, but to make it usable, the rest is closed.

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[bill_mcgonigle]

It must be nice to live in an area where Verizon isn' the only option for reliable signal. Meanwhile, those locked bootloaders suck. Too bad the FCC ensures an uncompetitive market and let's them do whatever the hell they want.

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[bill_mcgonigle]

I've had this problem - even with a SanDisk pro-level SD card (buggy controller revision). But if Android offered a proper format/qualify process, it would have saved me all that frustration and placated Google's concern. No, they want to rent people cloud 'services' to make up for a lack of storage.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Dorianny]

I would not buy a phone without a microSD slot, and the Nexus line fails by not including such an essential feature.

But, more important than that: Google definitely should put more pressure on manufacturers and carriers to keep the phones' OS updated for longer.

One persons essential features are another's rarely used amenities. Features such as microSD slots or removable batteries take space and as such they come with the trade-offs of added bulk or smaller battery. Fortunately unlike apple's iPhone family the android ecosystem is open and there are a plethora of devices out there to satisfy most peoples needs and budgets

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[EEPROMS]

with the newer releases of android you can use your SD storage "as ram". To implement this feature in a consumer market a removable SD card would be considered a negative (people bricking their phones when they removed the sd card). Also with services like google driver/dropbox one has little if any reason to remove an SD card any more (I haven't removed mine in well over a year). Also I carry a wireless 480mb portable hardisk (basically large 2.5" SD hardisk with a wifi router in the same case) for those times I want a large data cache on the move.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[mykro76]

the Nexus line fails by not including such an essential feature.

With respect, that's just your opinion. I started out in the beginning with the HTC Magic on which I never used the microSD slot, and have since had a Nexus S, Nexus 4 and now a Nexus 5X - never once missing the lack of a microSD slot. I keep all my data in the cloud which is the Google way. I think Google have made the right choices in their design.

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, they can charge way more than the price of the memory for phones with more built in storage, so it's almost pure profit for them. If they let you expand storage with a card, that cuts into the profit margin.

I think that's the biggest reason SD cards are disappearing from phones. Whatever else they say ("reliability") is an excuse.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

but to make it usable, the rest is closed.

Except that it's the closed source bits which make it unusable, and which have to be surgically removed from the phone to make it nominally useful.

Gapps are the first thing to nuke from an Android phone.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[mjwx]

I would not buy a phone without a microSD slot, and the Nexus line fails by not including such an essential feature.

But, more important than that: Google definitely should put more pressure on manufacturers and carriers to keep the phones' OS updated for longer.

Sample size of one, registered. Micro SD has been superflous for some time now with the most basic of phones coming with no less than 4GB of usable storage space. Its more of a pain to deal with as you have to use FAT file systems for it. My last to Nexus phones (Nexus 5 and Nexus 5x) have supported USB host mode for a while now, so you've got plenty of options for expanded storage.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[squiggleslash]

I bought a $30 Android phone the other week to replace my Galaxy Nexus. I was staggered to find the megabudget phone was actually a much more useful device, having, as it did, an microSD card slot, a battery that could last more than 24 hours (the GN couldn't last seven with standard use, I had to buy an "extended" battery that required a special cover to make it "fit"), and the standard buttons on the outside of the device rather than using up the screen display (and changing place whenever you accidentally change phone orientation...)

Yes, I'm aware time has passed, but the budget phone cost 10% of the cost of the GN (plus another $8 for a 16Gb microSD card), supports more recent phone standards, and its CPU and RAM seem to be comparable/the same.

I'm not saying the Nexus didn't have some nice features, I will miss the better screen (that device also had NFC and HDMI but I never used them), but truth is... I just can't see myself buying Nexus hardware as long as it's form over functionality. I mean, I hated Android for a long time because of that piece of utter #@(! and seriously was considering switching to Windows phone.

Google can take control if they want, but I don't trust the words of execs who justified the shitty battery life of the GN by saying they always carried a spare (I'm serious, go look it up) - I genuinely think they're more concerned about it looking sleek in a TV ad than it being useful.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[ChunderDownunder]

The Nexus line is a hacker series built by hackers for hackers.

Those in the modding community and Slashdot readers are more likely to want those features than Henry HTC or Sally Samsung, no?

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

My first smartphone was a Nexus. It was (at the time) cheap (under $400).

Two years later, it started randomly restarting, and sometimes not recognizing the sim card. These are common problems that require hardhacks to fix. Apparently, the expected life of the phone is only 2 years anyway.

That sucks. I don't want to sink that much money on a gadget that will only last me two years. Microsoft has smart phones for $50. Google needs to get with the program.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[shawn2772]

with the newer releases of android you can use your SD storage "as ram"

Say what?

AFAIK, no production Android devices anywhere have any sort of swap to flash or SD enabled. A small number use zramfs to provide swap space; that swaps RAM to compressed RAM. Swapping RAM to SD would be terribly slow.

It's possible that some custom ROMs have done something like this, but Google hasn't.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[fustakrakich]

A removable battery is a necessary safety feature, and the only way to ensure the phone is powered off.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

SD card slots only matter to a fairly small minority of users.

These are consumer devices, and managing auxiliary storage on an android device is way outside the average consumer's depth.

This is partially android's fault for not having a transparent, consistent, auto-magic way for an SD card to transparently add storage for all applications and services. The moment a consumer sees something to the effect of 'would you blah blah sdcard0' or can't find where their photos went they instantly regret not buying an iphone.

Consumers want a device that's easy and cheap and reliable. Card slots add complexity, failure points, cost. If they're not going to use the slot it's actually in their best interest to buy a product without one.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Curtman]

I think he's talking about "Adaptable Storage Devices", not RAM.

For users, âoeAdaptable Storage Devicesâ entails that they can move an appâ(TM)s code plus its private data to external storage without having to turn to third-party tools or OEM hacks. Looking at a technical aspect, the setup will format the external storage to be in league with the internal one and will wrap it in a layer of specific encryption. So to Android, it becomes a part of a greater storage layout. In laymanâ(TM)s terms, Android M will treat an external storage device like an SD card as if it were internal storage, letting users move apps and other data between storage devices.

Android M Offers Support for External Storage Devices

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[RandomFactor]

I recall hearing they also do it to avoid people getting cheap slow *sd cards and complaining about the speed...

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[spire3661]

The removable battery thing stopped being an issue when stupid cheap battery banks became available. I have one custom built by Motorola for the Moto G/X line. Its effectively the same thing as having a removable battery other than being able to remove all power easily. I carried removable batteries for almost a decade, now i just keep the motorola battery handy. Did i mention i paid $10 for it....

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/i...

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

They only stopped mattering if all you care about is swapping a depleted battery for a fresh one. It's still a real issue if you want to temporarily disconnect the phone from *all* batteries.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[just another AC]

Micro SD has been superflous for some time now with the most basic of phones coming with no less than 4GB of usable storage space. Its more of a pain to deal with as you have to use FAT file systems for it.

My last to Nexus phones (Nexus 5 and Nexus 5x) have supported USB host mode for a while now, so you've got plenty of options for expanded storage.

4GB...Yep, 640K should be enough blah blah.

4GB - put your favourite 10 albums on there, and 2 games and suddenly there is no swap space for the phone to run, let alone your photos or videos. Not everyone uses their phone as just a browser/ calling device. For some it is their gameboy, walkman, portable dvd player, ...

And plugging in a usb device is not practical for most uses (especially if you have to charge at the same time).

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing about MicroSD is that internal storage is cheap(ish) to upgrade now, and cloud storages are becoming increasingly bigger for cheaper

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[ChunderDownunder]

The removable battery thing is handy if you're working with a bleeding edge unstable ROM.

Rather than hold the power button down for 10 seconds to force a shutdown, flip off the cover and pull the battery.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

The Nexus line is a hacker series built by hackers for hackers.

Then you dont know what the Nexus line is, we are talking about the Google Nexus devices that are built by HTC, Samsung and LG, they have developer mode disabled by default and most come with locked bootloaders, they also dont come with SD card slots, so no they are not built by hackers or for hackers.

Those in the modding community and Slashdot readers are more likely to want those features than Henry HTC or Sally Samsung, no?

Then they would not be buying Nexus phones as you have been misinformed, many of the Nexus devices are in fact Samsung and HTC phones.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[AbRASiON]

"But, more important than that: Google definitely should put more pressure on manufacturers and carriers to keep the phones' OS updated for longer."

Totally completely agreed. I don't know how to program but god damnit I wish there was a way the fundamental crap underneath could be updated, without needing approval from HTC / Samsung / LG AND then local carriers as well, it's ridiclous.

Apples system is simply better in that regard. My iphone 5s is right up to date, it's an older phone and unlike some claim, it's still performing well to boot. Whereas my Galaxy Note 2? Updates have completely died (admitedly it's a bit of an old phone now, but much newer phones get ignored too)

It'd be nice if the unskinned version of Android was available for all handsets. Even though I actually don't mind TouchWiz, be nice to have that option.
Honestly, in my opinion, Google / Android has done very little positive in the past 18 months. Most of the changes have frankly, been poor / annoying / too similar to apple.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[squiggleslash]

Pretty much every basic phone with 4Gb comes with a micro SD card slot, which you're expected to fill. A 4Gb Android phone is barely usable without one.

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an unfair comparison.

1) an iPhone costs 2x or more than what a NEXUS costs, and yet has an effective life or 2-3 years
2) Microsoft is offering Windows phones for that, because no one will buy them otherwise!

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[niftymitch]

The thing about MicroSD is that internal storage is cheap(ish) to upgrade now, and cloud storages are becoming increasingly bigger for cheaper

Not sufficient.... Cloud storage does mirroring well enough and
works up to the capacity of the phone's storage.

As soon as the content on the cloud gets larger and shared
software management becomes a royal pain. Cloud storage
management just sucks for phones.

The important point about uSD cards is storage is a cash
cow and the cow will kick ya in the head if you put its
udder in too tight a clamp.

Kick some udder phones...

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got an older 5. It is fine, but the cost of the new ones was kind of high, so last time I bought a phone for someone, I got a Motorola. I wanted the Nexus, but the price didn't justify it.

So basically, get the price down. If it means a slightly less fancy model, that is okay. Also, the new nexus models don't all do wireless charging. That is a very nice feature, that I'd hate to lose even after only having it for a month or so. It saves a lot of wear and tear on that connector. Beyond that focus on reliability. The nexus line isn't horrible, but does glitch at times. Resetting a phone should almost never be required. By almost never I mean once a few times a year tops. If the core OS must smack down bad processes then fine, but keep things responsive. I just wish we didn't have to take for granted that in order to keep things secure we must have multiple updates to things a year, particularly to the core OS.

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[perpenso]

No, they want to rent people cloud 'services' to make up for a lack of storage.

15GB of free storage. Unless you are keeping your music or photo or movie collection on an sd-card it seems not a problem.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

Security feature, not safety feature.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[exomondo]

Sure, they might piss off a lot of OEM partners, but what are those partners going to do? Switch to Windows Phone?

Probably go with an incompatible Android fork...likely their own version.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

Define "necessary", certainly a great many users of smartphones, tablets and laptops get along just fine without it.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[exomondo]

These devices are targeted at a large customer base, they aren't intended to be everything to all people. If you need an SD card but this doesn't have an SD card then obviously you aren't its target user.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[MightyYar]

Android does such a poor job of managing SD vs internal card space that I am actually happier without.

And then to compound things, my old Samsung would let the SD card slide out every once in a while - and the phone REALLY hated that, losing settings for things that were stored on the card.

The wake up call for me was when I realized that I never took the SD card out of the phone. Not even for transfer to the computer - I'd just plug in a USB cable. What the heck was I putting up with the hassle of managing the SD card for, then? Now I just buy as much internal storage as is available and move on with life.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[stephanruby]

A removable battery is a necessary safety feature, and the only way to ensure the phone is powered off.

Not for me, it's perfectly safe for me now.

Once I figured out that the Faraday bag over my head needed breathing holes, my black fingers and my daily hypoxiation became a thing of the past.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[MightyYar]

If the government wants to follow me to work, they can go right ahead and knock themselves out.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

Except then they won't get the app store

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[exomondo]

Enable sideloading and/or have their own appstore, it's the same applications so where they come from isn't a big deal.

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Harlequin80]

The problem I run into with phones that lack microSD cards is not consuming media it is creating it. With two small kids my wife takes an insane amount of video on her phone. A nexus series phone would be full in a week. As a result, instead of having a Nexus 6 she has an LG G4 with 128gb sd card in it and there was enough room under the back cover to stick another card in there when the active one gets full.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

The average customer didn't even want a smartphone, until they were told they did.

A phone with an SD card slot that came with appropriate features would be welcomed. Prepare a presentation on the train and use it right away! Work on company docs on an encrypted card, not over the wire! Create a draft wedding album right from your camera for the reception!

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem isn't the format/qualify process. It's the SD cards themselves. Shitty technology that uses a microcontroller to conceal and correct defects inherent in every SD card sold.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

"32GB may not be good enough for everyone but its good enough for me" said the happy Nexus 5x owner. Perhaps you travel more than I do and need more local storage but you are the exception and not the rule. Don't go adding cost to my device for a feature that doesn't provide significant benefit to me.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

I could not care less about microSD slot, and the Nexus line does not fail by not including such non-essential feature.

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, Galaxy Nexus? How old is that, anyway? Three years? Four?

My point is that old hardware will naturally not compare to new. And with the GNexus in particular, the thing started its death spiral when it stopped getting major updates. (Mine became unusable 6 mos - 1 yr after that)

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

Geez you are an idiot that knows nothing.

You should check facts before you post such rubbish.

Submitted from my Nexus 5 (made by LG, bootloader unlocked).

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[serviscope_minor]

the only devices guaranteed over the long term to receive regular updates,

Long? I do not think that means what you think that means.

Take my nice Nexus 4:
Released: Nov 13 2012
EOL: May 2015 (2.5 years later)

That's not a long time in my book. Ubuntu 14.04 on my laptop will in theory (I'll be upgrading to 16 in a few months) will receive updates for 5 years, 3 years beyond when the next version is available (more for the server version). Windows XP support lasted, well it depends precisely how you count it, but it was about 5 years after the last normal sales, 6 years after a new version was available (ignoring vista). That was a long time. And that ignores the fact that a PC is a much more open platform and you can upgrade the OS it comes with, which is why I'm writing this on an 8 year old laptop, using the latest version of Firefox.

2.5 years? That's just not a long time.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[sociocapitalist]

I disagree. Nexus devices are satisfactory but not exceptional. They lack essential features like SD Card slots and don't really feature any nifty "bits" to mess with, but are the only devices guaranteed over the long term to receive regular updates, and that alone makes them better. Everything else is, by far, less than satisfactory due to the emphasis of gimmicks or poorly implemented features while often neglecting or actively harming security.

The SD card is a double edged feature. Get filesystem corruption on the card and your phone starts behaving like a two year old on crack.

Anyone using Android with a micro SD card and who gets random freezes and reboots may want to try removing (or erasing) the SD card and see if that clears things up.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get what all the no SD clamour is about. I never even came close to filling up any of my phones internal memory. And I don't use any cloud services either.

All the use cases for big memory I can think of are not really what I would want to use a phone for.

I do not watch videos on my phone. I've got a beamer for that.
I only really listen to music in my car and usually only fm radio.
The biggest thing I ever had on a phone was osmand for navigation. I can't install the whole world of maps on there but I also don't see the point of doing so.

Some games are quite big but they should be on internal storage anyway because of speed.

In any case my nexus 6 (32GB) reports over 20GiB of free space and I already have everything I need on there.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[trawg]

Nexus devices are satisfactory but not exceptional.

Yeh, this is about right. They are nice, standard reference phones for Android.

But: if my Nexus 4 was upgradable to Marshmallow (the latest Android OS) I probably would be upgrading it to being exceptional.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[bickerdyke]

How do you define EOL? I have a Nexus 4 and recevied a regular OS update a while after May.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[bickerdyke]

SDCard handling in Android has been broken more or less from the beginning. Got worse when the first phones without SDslot mounted part of their internal memory as "external" and I'm not sure if the latest contraptions to fix that fixed anything or just turned it into a different way of broken.

It IS broken when you have GB of free space but can't install anything because some smaller memory partition is full.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[HnT]

Google itself is not doing such an awesome job with updates, see e.g. the Motorola Moto E second generation which does not even get 5.1 let alone 6!

And a microSD card is a nice feature but as long as you cannot seamlessly run apps from it, it's just a sad media store and despite having a microSD slot I could not use my old Moto E anymore just because it ran out of storage and there is nothing you can do about it if you want to stay with vanilla android.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[drinkypoo]

Well, I had a Nexus 4, and it was neither satisfactory nor exceptional. The digitizer went bad, as did the cellular radio, and I had it in a soft case throughout its lifetime and never got it wet nor gave it a hard drop. But I should have known better, because it was made by LG.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[drinkypoo]

Add to that that the N4 has common digitizer failure and it's horribly difficult to repair, and it's not that great a device. In fact, it's kind of a dog's breakfast. It seemed great when it was new...

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[DrXym]

The issue is that manufacturers insist on skinning the phone and filling it with their own apps. Then the network provider insists on skinning the phone and filling it with more apps.

So every time a bug fix rolls along, or Android bumps up a version, there are two additional codebases to merge, test, certify and deploy. The more the handset is customised the more painful the process will be. For every single combination of handset and network.

Best thing to do is buy a SIM free handset. That's all the network crap gone. And favour a handset which runs vanilla android, or at least has good support, and preferably aftermarket support such as cyanogenmod. Then you'll get updates for as long as the hardware is able to run the latest versions of android.

Personally I wouldn't go near anything which didn't meet this criteria.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Stuarticus]

IDK... its not that hard to root and install a custom rom on them these days.Maybe 2 minutes work.... even on Sammys its dead simple nowadays. So much so that 'guaranteed' updates is meh... and not worth the trade-offs that have to be made if I purchase a Nexus model.

Then all you have to do is hope the community maintains a ROM for your device... I'd rather look on a custom ROM as being a last resort, while I've really enjoyed using CyanogenMod I'd rather my device was maintained properly in the first place by the people who sold it to me.

Having been through the process I'd also dispute your "2 minutes work" even for a fairly experienced user the time taken to read the guides and find all the appropriate tools is easily going to be half an hour, plus an outside chance of bricking of your phone if you make any idiot mistakes.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Stuarticus]

I think Google sold Motorola manufacturing pretty quickly after buying it, they just wanted a patent bundle. I was pretty annoyed because my wife got a Motorola phone at that time and I assumed they would start providing Nexus level updates for Motorola products.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

that makes them better, and i think google should hammer vendors over the lack of updates.
heres the nexus $X - fast, secure and top of the line [come on google...]
heres the galaxy note 5 - big, fast and...well its out of date already
just like the droid turbo [my phone, which i love, but which also took fooooorever to get updated]

do something with the phones other companies arent doing and hammer them over it, maybe at least they will get up to speed on the true high end models.

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Forgefather]

This is the best argument that I heard as to why Apple refuses to make a 32 GB version of their iPhones. They know that 8-16 GBs is insufficient so they use it as an incentive to force people to upgrade to the 64 GB version paying a lot more money than the memory is worth.

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

...but how else will I have my 60GB of 10-bit anime to watch when I'm somewhere without signal?

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[AmiMoJo]

I'll accept a reasonably priced large internal memory and no SD card slot. The only reason to bother with an SD card is because some companies rip you off on memory upgrades. SD cards have some disadvantages as well, such as using more power than internal flash memory.

Removable batteries are of course essential, but so is a reasonable size one. 2800mAh is about as low as I'd want to go. It needs to get a full day of heavy use on a single charge.

The current Nexus devices are a bit expensive for memory, and the lack of Qi charging is a real pain in the arse.

As for updates, most are via Play Services now so it doesn't require the manufacturer to do anything. That's why you don't see vast botnets of Android phones - in every case so far, Google as just pushed an update to Play Services that mitigates the vulnerability and adds the ability to detect the exploit when installing apps, even when sideloading.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[SQLGuru]

I listen to / watch many podcasts. Due to the data volumes, I download most of them over wi-fi at home so I can consume the content on the go. An SD card is essential for a consumer like me. Even a 16GB phone is quickly overwhelmed when you've got over 80 active podcast subscriptions. I'm "current", so I only have episodes that were released last night and I'm sitting at almost 8GB of space consumed. Considering that my 16GB phone doesn't have 16GB of space, that's over half of the available space.

And more of the video podcasts are trying to go to 4K (why, I don't know --- 720p for a podcast is a good balance between content, video quality, and file size). One of the podcasts I watch released a 2.3GB file the other day (not included in the 8GB above). So, even with phones going to 32GB and more, the content is expanding to consume all of that new space.

So, while YOU may not want an SD card, I certainly do. But I also realize that not everyone uses their phone the same way. That's why there aren't just one model of each manufacturer's phone.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[serviscope_minor]

They annouced that there would be no more updates, that's how. They relented when they found a major screw up. You won't be getting Android 6 despite the phone being perfectly usable with it.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

As mentioned in other comments, having the SD card slot can cause performance issues. Yeah, if you have a top card and make sure it's not corrupted, you may be fine, but many people don't know better and that creates more headaches for manufactures. Also, with 128GB phones available now, I just don't see the need for them like back when 4GB, 8GB, and 16GB were the standard. If you're recording a lot of high quality video, maybe consider investing in a better product dedicated to that. If you want to keep a ton of MP3s on your device, I can understand, but the trend has been towards streaming services. Manufacturers are going to try to include what's most used/required by their end users, not just throw everything they can on it to satisfy everyone.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like you might enjoy the BlackBerry Priv. It has an SD slot and has gotten monthly updates since release.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[CrankyFool]

That was my experience with a Samsung Galaxy S4. MicroSD slot became somewhat unreliable, which led to unreliable functioning of things like music, because I had my music on the SD card. Sadly, I had assumed this would be rock-solid when I bought the phone, so I went with minimum internal memory.

My replacement is a Nexus 6P with 128GB of internal storage. Much happier. Except for the part where I spent something like $739 or thereabouts for the 6P with Nexus Protect. :)

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[The-Ixian]

What about the 'ol hard reset option of removing the battery?

This is no longer an option on phones without a removable battery.

Also, getting the IEMI or serial number can only be done through software on the device itself now.

It also means that any "slots" (sd cards, hdmi, etc) need to be on the outside of the device which then discourages their use.

I sort of get the aesthetic thing... but if you want that, just get an iPhone... why does everyone have to copy what Apple does?

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[The-Ixian]

I don't buy it.

I think that manufacturers do whatever they can to cut costs and foist things on people as "features"

Then, when people buy the devices it is seen as proof that the consumer wants these things.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[The-Ixian]

exactly.

Why would you NOT want an SD card if it was available? More space is good.

To say (as the GP is suggesting) that people don't want these feature is BS. It is simply the manufacturers determining what people "want" for them and then people not raising a fuss about it because it is "good enough"

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[The-Ixian]

Microsoft did that, and they have basically trashed consumer adoption of their own platform as a result.

You know that Surface is extremely profitable for MS right?

To say that they trashed consumer adoption is simply not true. Quite a lot of people are adopting Surface devices.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[serviscope_minor]

It seemed great when it was new...

Except for the fact it regularly lost contact with the cell network and needed rebooting. I suppose if you're a googler with 24/7 wifi access whereever you happen to be that doesn't matter, though.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[sociocapitalist]

That was my experience with a Samsung Galaxy S4. MicroSD slot became somewhat unreliable, which led to unreliable functioning of things like music, because I had my music on the SD card. Sadly, I had assumed this would be rock-solid when I bought the phone, so I went with minimum internal memory.

My replacement is a Nexus 6P with 128GB of internal storage. Much happier. Except for the part where I spent something like $739 or thereabouts for the 6P with Nexus Protect. :)

For me it hasn't been the slot, just the cards - and generally formatting them resolves the issue.

I refuse to pay that much for a phone just to get that RAM internal which is one reason I won't buy an iPhone.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Coren22]

Surface =/= Windows Phone.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Coren22]

Very likely, it was your SD card failing, and nothing wrong with the phone. Did you try swapping in a new SD card?

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Coren22]

So, people buy an iPhone where they either spend a fortune on storage, or constantly manage the storage as they run out so quick because SD cards are hard?

That is an odd point of view.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[schlagzeug]

That's not my reason for wanting a removable battery. I want it removable so that when the battery stops working I can replace it, instead of having to buy a new phone. Battery bank doesn't help with that.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

why does everyone have to copy what Apple does?

This is just a guess, but maybe because what Apple does is incredibly profitable & successful, and most of the other companies making these phones don't want to invest significant effort into research, development, and design of their own solutions to customer problems?

Sure, you could do your own thing... but if you're trying to compete in the Android world, there's no margins in doing that.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[nnull]

I would like to have all my devices be able to update with the latest android version from Google instead of being bogged down from some crappy manufacturer. I never understood this logic where some different brand Android phones are not able to update to the latest Android version and you remain bogged down with some phone that gets more broken over time because Apps update to support newer versions, and having X app crash all the time because of it.

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[dpidcoe]

Wait, last I knew you're allowed to unlock the bootloader if you own the phone. If you decide to make monthly payments on it instead of buying it outright, then you made your choice to deal with a locked bootloader.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. I purchased a Nexus 4 about 3 years ago now (yikes!) and am still using it as my primary (and only) phone. It doesn't have Marshmallow OS on it, I know that I could put it on but rather not risk it, but it works for what I need it to do. It's "only" 3G and doesn't have an SD slot but 4G and the slot doesn't impress me and/or is even needed. For 95-99% of the time, I'm on WiFi so having 4G or not doesn't matter.

Getting all updates and no built-in crudware (beyond Google's stuff of course) is so nice. :)

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

Nexus devices are satisfactory but not exceptional. They lack essential features like SD Card slots
 
How can something be satisfactory but lacking essentials? I think you need a better understanding of the English language.
 
Slashtards really are dumb.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[spire3661]

When we talk about removable in this context it usually means it can be done without tools by the end user in the field. You are talking about whether its REPLACEABLE, which is a different argument. Most phone's batteries are replaceable by a person familiar with electronics. My Moto G battery isnt removable in this context, but i could easily replace it with a new battery for about $6.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[exomondo]

Unfortunately that's not a reality, even the Nexus phones don't provide that. We saw it with the Nexus S and with the Galaxy Nexus, with the latter you could get the OS update but not the latest version from Google, it was one put together by groups like Cyanogen.

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Anonymous Coward]

Which fact do you believe was not factual? Given you posted "made by LG, bootloader unlocked" I would think you are alluding to this comment:

most come with locked bootloaders

This is a fact (which by definition is correct). The Nexus S, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 4, Nexus 5, Nexus 6, Nexus 7 and Nexus 9 all come with locked bootloaders, in fact there are even articles on that very subject:

http://www.androidcentral.com/...
http://www.droid-life.com/2011...
http://www.androidcentral.com/...
http://www.androidcentral.com/...
http://www.droid-life.com/2014...

Hopefully this helps you to be more informed next time.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[exomondo]

Surface =/= Windows Phone.

His point is that Microsoft did the same thing with Windows and the Surface and that worked out just fine. Nobody was using Windows Phone before they did it on that platform and nobody is using it now so that was likely nothing to do with it.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[sad_]

The solution should be vendor independent and be driven by Google, as they make Android.
Look, i can install linux on any pc i want, the distro does not care and will just update as new packages come out.
The same thing should be done for Android, this is the only way. And it shouldn't even be that hard...

Re: Nexus aren't satisfactory

[steveg]

If the bootloader is locked but is designed to be unlocked because the manufacturer and/or Google has provided a key, that's not the same as a phone that has a locked bootloader and someone had to use a security exploit to break it. The article you linked to on the Nexus 6 shows you how to get to the unlock mechanism built in to the phone. No reverse engineering needed.

I didn't read the rest of your links.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[macs4all]

why does everyone have to copy what Apple does?

Do you really want the answer to that question?

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[Stormwatch]

The typical (not high end) phone's storage still seems to be 16GB or 32GB.

Re:Nexus aren't satisfactory

[YouGotTobeKidding]

Sure in a perfect world the mfg'er would be on top of things. But its not a perfect world. Google basically uses their Nexus consumer base as unpaid guinea pigs for the OS, while others wait too long before jumping on the next google OS. Both have their pros and cons... neither are perfect. I prefer open source roms as {gasp} most legit creators actually care about their reputation and user feedback. As for 2 minutes. Thats how long it took to load 6.01 onto my Sammy Tablet three days before I posted that comment. Load the files on to the external 1800x UHS-ii microSD card (yes its overkill but it was free), reboot the tablet into TeamWin Recovery Project loader, wipe, install, reboot. Enjoy. Not that hard. It really is only a couple minutes 'work'. Hell with TWRP you can even backup and restore so there is almost no downside besides lost time. Seriously the days of bricking a device beyond recovery are mostly in the past. It is possible, but it is harder and you have to be very unlucky. Honestly If you are going to use the lowest common denominator to argue against my personal experience... I have question. Where did I say noobs could do it in 2 minutes? I said it can take about 2 minutes. More importantly why should I assume that a tech site that is for 'geeks' be populated by idiots? I mean seriously if you want to use the lowest common denominator then I could argue that since it takes more than a moment to explain to a noob how to use a smartphone that they should never, ever buy one. YMMV mate

I can think of one way to make them better.

[taxman_10m]

Qwerty slider.

Re:I can think of one way to make them better.

[Stormwatch]

There should be a more optimized key arrangement.

Re:I can think of one way to make them better.

[sexconker]

As much as I hate it, that ship has sailed.
Touch screens suuuuuuuuuuuuuuck for input.

Re:I can think of one way to make them better.

[webmistressrachel]

HTC Touch Pro 2 with custom Android ROM... (replacing WinMo, for the observant amongst you...)

Sliding hardware keyboard + Android + SELinux = Respectable workstation.

Re:I can think of one way to make them better.

[ChunderDownunder]

editing documents on a 3.6" screen sounds more painful than 'Respectable'.

But each to their own. :)

Re:I can think of one way to make them better.

[Anonymous Coward]

So, a BlackBerry Priv then?

Re:I can think of one way to make them better.

[dinfinity]

The (Android) BlackBerry Priv gives us a glimmer of hope.
It's not a proper landscape slider, but at least it's a hardware slider. Let\s hope it will be wildly successful.

Re:I can think of one way to make them better.

[Anonymous Coward]

Touch screens suck for input, but they suck even more for shortcuts. I love being able to set up keyboard shortcuts, and I use them all the time. "S" to launch the stocks app, "M" to call mom. Etc.

Re:I can think of one way to make them better.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I don't need this, therefore no one needs this, because I am the smartest person in the world"

Re:I can think of one way to make them better.

[webmistressrachel]

Yes, you are correct, painful but nonetheless functional. An FTP client completes the suite; if you're good, you will write good code on any terminal, provided the tools and debugging capability are there.

Obviously it's not my terminal of choice, but I still think that my green-screen Amstrad taught me more as a child than consumer devices teach children today. Sometimes minimalism is more appropriate for learning than "wizards" and whizz-bang. The programmers who took GUI for granted in Visual Studio et al, are churning out self-service buggy insecure code now. Thanks, Microsoft.

Nexus 9 had finish issues

[Harlequin80]

I own a Nexus 9 and I think it is a good solid tablet. But mine looks raggedy as hell because the matt finish on the back is only a thin film overlay that has worn off all over the place and in others is lifting like old dead skin. So face up it looks good, face down it looks like a 20 year old tablet that has had a hard life.

The other comment someone else made is around the microSD slot. Particularly for a tablet, which is a pure media consumption device, it should have an SD slot.

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[kamapuaa]

Hey grandpa: use a streaming service!

And personally I find streaming off Plex a lot more convenient than fiddling about the SD cards.

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[mjwx]

I own a Nexus 9 and I think it is a good solid tablet. But mine looks raggedy as hell because the matt finish on the back is only a thin film overlay that has worn off all over the place and in others is lifting like old dead skin. So face up it looks good, face down it looks like a 20 year old tablet that has had a hard life.

It depends on who made it.

After 16 months of daily usage, the case of my Nexus 5 showed little wear. The case on my 2013 Nexus 7 has two chips on the corners due to carelessness (dropping) but apart from that has nothing but a few scuffs. The Nexus 7 was made by Asus and the 5 by LG.

It was the same with my ancient Galaxy Nexus although the front bezel was wearing down to bare plastic after about 4 years, it still looked impressive enough that the car detailer who found it* asked where he could get one. I had to tell him he needed to go back to 2012.

* At that point I was glad to go back to the status of never having lost a phone. Apparently it had fallen out of my pocket and into the Bermuda triangle between the drivers seat and centre console.

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[tsqr]

Hey grandpa: use a streaming service!

And personally I find streaming off Plex a lot more convenient than fiddling about the SD cards.

Hey junior: how convenient is your streaming service when you're on an airplane with no connectivity?

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[spire3661]

Except when it doesnt work, which has happened to me lots of times, even when running multiple, co-located servers. Plex and local storage are not the same thing. Also, im a lifetime member so please dont bring up sync, its junk. I maintain a Plex server for my family, but everything i watch is stored locally on-device if at all possible. Sneakernet > streaming, always. Streaming is a compromise.

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[Curtman]

You could use a OTG SD, or OTG cable and flash drive(s) for those times.

$2

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[just another AC]

Hey grandpa: use a streaming service!

And personally I find streaming off Plex a lot more convenient than fiddling about the SD cards.

Wow, what an enlightened young tech guru. Please can you tell me where you live so I can move there immediately?

You obviously have truly unlimited data plans with absolutely flawless coverage even indoors and underground and a really brilliant streaming service that offers every possible show (including rare movies from decades ago and all my videos of family vacations etc), so I will be able to watch whatever I want whenever I want.

The only reason to want an SD card is because I'm not with the times...

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[Harlequin80]

That's fine. If I am near a network.....

And for travel 5 microsd cards are way less hassle than an OTG cable hanging out of the bottom of my tablet.

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[Harlequin80]

Way way way way less convenient then a hand full of microSD cards. Especially if you want to have the device resting on something in portrait mode.

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[Harlequin80]

Of course it depends on the specific device. I have a couple of nexus 4s and 5s kicking around that look fine. I also have an old nexus 7 that looked fine till my daughter dropped it down the stairs. The nexus 9 though has a particular problem with that coating.

Someone else's nexus 9 they took a photo of - https://lh3.googleusercontent....

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice, but you missed a few points.

By using PLEX they probably have a lot of storage powered on 24x7 to store all that media.
Since they are streaming to a phone i would assume that the PLEX server is also transcoding on the fly to the lower resolution/bandwidth device?
Their ISP must also be very good, many cap upload speeds.

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[Anonymous Coward]

The other comment someone else made is around the microSD slot. Particularly for a tablet, which is a pure media consumption device, it should have an SD slot.

Yeah, no one would by a tablet without a microSD slot!

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[pak9rabid]

Do yourself a favor and get one of these and these. Problem solved. In addition to being a wireless travel router with a big ass (10400mAh) battery that you can use to keep your device(s) charged, it's also effectively a NAS device. Load your thumb drive up with media and stream away to your device. I bought this specifically for streaming media to my tablet(s) while on the plane.

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[dugancent]

Not a chance. I do not want a computer running 24/7 just to serve and transcode video.

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[Coren22]

The earlier Asus Nexus 7s had screen lamination issues which caused the Gorilla Glass on the screen to be extremely fragile. I went through one, and my kids both had theirs shatter. I have never had these kinds of issues with a phone, laptop, or tablet, so it was a bit annoying that my brand new tablet broke and wasn't covered under warranty because they denied the issue.

All manufacturers have issues. I love Asus, but even they have issues as well.

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[tsqr]

You could use a OTG SD, or OTG cable and flash drive(s) for those times.

I have an OTG cable, and it's very useful for transferring files on and off the phone. However, the original complaint concerned "fiddling about the SD cards", which in my experience involves much less fiddling than OTG cables and thumb drives. In my particular anecdotal case, the total extent of "fiddling about the SD cards" reduced to a one-time insertion of the micro SD into its receptacle on the side of the phone.

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[tsqr]

The travel router is an interesting device, and no doubt a lot of people are fine with bringing along a 1/2 pound device and setting up a personal WiFi network on a commercial airliner. I am not one of those people, and have a bit of difficulty seeing this lashup as a great replacement for a tiny memory card that lives inside my phone or tablet. A 128 GB micro SD holds more music and video than I can possibly listen to and watch on a round trip between Los Angeles and London. And while in-seat USB ports or AC power receptacles aren't ubiquitous, they're becoming more common. I didn't have to take my battery out of my carry-on on my last trip (12 hours in the air each way) to keep my devices charged.

Re:Nexus 9 had finish issues

[pak9rabid]

There's also the added benefit that media can be shared between multiple devices simultaneously, something that cannot be done with a single SD card.

Fuck you Pikachu!

[Anonymous Coward]

You couldn't make a decent phone if you tried

This isn't really about Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, yes Google wants to hurt competitors market share but lets not forget about Microsoft. Lumia is doing terrible a few years on. Microsoft has made headway in the Tablet market and the new Surface Pro is being raved about. I'd say Google would be more worried about Microsoft building a device that is on par with Surface Pro but as a mobile phone.

I read articles like this http://appleinsider.com/articl...

And it is trying to say that iPad Pro outsold Surface Pro. Keep in mind they say "all of Microsoft Tablets" vs "Just the iPad Pro". But this is silly because traditionally only the newest of the newest gets sold in the first place. Maybe Surface 3 sold less but regardless of the fact the numbers they are making a dent and that's a problem. If product improvement keeps happening for the Surface. Apple wont keep up and Google will have more issues.

Re:This isn't really about Apple

[ArmoredDragon]

Well, yes Google wants to hurt competitors market share but lets not forget about Microsoft. Lumia is doing terrible a few years on. Microsoft has made headway in the Tablet market and the new Surface Pro is being raved about. I'd say Google would be more worried about Microsoft building a device that is on par with Surface Pro but as a mobile phone.

That's kind of an apple's and oranges comparison. The Surface Pro (I own an SP4 by the way) is more of an ultraportable laptop than a tablet. Or rather, it doesn't really run the kind of apps you'd want from a tablet. But again, it's wonderful from a portability perspective.

That said, if they tried to push it to a phone, they'd experience the same amount of fail that they've been experiencing this whole time, especially given that their UWP app API is limited and it sucks. Try creating an OpenVPN client for example -- you can't because it's literally impossible to create on a Microsoft phone. That, plus a lot of other apps and features just can't be done on it because Microsoft doesn't implement even half of the API features found in Android/iOS and refuses to allow the use of an NDK to fill those gaps.

And no, Continuum won't resolve the later, even if the phone could run plain old x86 Win32 apps. Nobody wants to carry around a dock with associated adapters, keyboard, and mouse in their pocket just to run desktop apps on a phone grade CPU/GPU on the off chance that they might find a comfortable chair and monitor (or tv) to connect it to wherever they happen to be. It's better when it's all just self contained, like the Surface tablets are.

Re:This isn't really about Apple

[cbhacking]

Well, maybe not using official third-party SDKs, but it's certainly not impossible. OpenVPN relies on the TUN/TAP driver, which I'm not sure anybody has bothered to port to WP8.1/W10M yet, but on a jailbroken phone (yes, they exist) you can do it.

There is also an official API for TLS-based VPNs, which may be usable for OpenVPN, though you'd need to re-write the client to use those APIs instead of using TUN/TAP like it usually does. They only officially allow a few limited partners to use those APIs (they aren't in the public SDK), but in practice you can certainly write an app that uses them.

Whether you could get it published in the store is another question, of course. At least W10M (finally) has dead-easy sideloading right out of the box.

Re:This isn't really about Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

The Surface Pro is foremost a Laptop with a "usable tablet" mode, and doesn't pretend to be anything else. All the Surface Pro has been doing is eroding marketshare away from traditional notebook/laptop manufacturers (eg Lenovo)

The iPad Pro is a new device. It's specifically aimed at the kind of person who may consider a notebook, but doesn't actually need the capabilities of one (eg your average executive at a big corporation) It's also aimed at artists, who up till now had to put up with some really poor alternatives (eg the extremely overpriced Cintiq tablet, or the "nearly-the-same-price as an iPad" Surface Pro with the shitty nTrig digitizer)

If Google wants to stomp over Apple, it needs to do some major surgery on the Android platform and drop all the holdover java cruft from when it was a Blackberry knock-off. This is a must-happen, or it will forever be playing second fiddle to iOS where apps are always processor-native. Android devices have much poorer batterylife owing to a lot of garbage that has to be in the java parts of the UI.

Samsung has shown it's willingness to dump Android in favor of something else(Tizen), and it has the marketing to be able to do it, but it won't because as long as it sells Android hardware it can claim the "ships the most Android phones" title. The average Android user doesn't even own any paid apps, so switching a device is not a huge loss to them. But Samsung isn't going to be able to just swap out the OS and everything becomes awesome because Samsung tends to release hardware with poor firmware/drivers.

Google, really needs to stabilize and do a "one Android" system, an OS build that works on all existing Android hardware and can replace the carrier-specific versions of Android. Good luck with that.

Re:This isn't really about Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Google, really needs to stabilize and do a "one Android" system, an OS build that works on all existing Android hardware and can replace the carrier-specific versions of Android. Good luck with that.

Being a developer of both I can say in the past few months iOS 9.X has caused a few issues that most "didn't expect". But on the flip side the opening of Swift which happened around the same time and was a pleasant thing to happen.

Having said that I am excited to see where Swift will take the cross development of both platforms into the future. I'd say specifically the good thing about Android (but not good for Google) is the fact that a lot of apps are written in Java and makes its byte-code far more portable across platforms and spilling into systems such Ubuntu touch.

And what I'd like to see is a more native uniformity for Android. Because that will make it that much easier to step away from it in the future.

I think this is a trend we are seeing with all the 3 main brands. MS, Google and Apple. Its become "cool" to be open source.

Re:This isn't really about Apple

[ArmoredDragon]

They only officially allow a few limited partners to use those APIs (they aren't in the public SDK), but in practice you can certainly write an app that uses them.

And for what reason do they do this? They say they want developers to come to the platform, yet they make it an even worse version of Apple's walled garden.

Anyways OpenVPN isn't the only case. I don't recall the specific app, but I remember a while back a bunch of Windows Phone fans were raising a shitstorm on some developer's forum because the developer wouldn't add a big feature to the WP version of the app that was present on Android/iOS, and the developer responded that they can't add that feature because the OS doesn't support it.

This didn't satisfy the WP fans though, they kept railing against them anyways saying it was just some kind of excuse to "hold back" the platform (much as they always accuse others of doing, i.e. carriers, Google, etc, both of which are silly considering that Google gets plenty of Nexus device sales without carrier involvement and Google can't "hold back" the platform, especially given that Microsoft provides alternatives for all of Google's services.)

Apple-like control

[Ritz_Just_Ritz]

No more SD slot: check
No user-replaceable battery: check

I'll be sticking with the LG G4 until a better alternative comes along that doesn't do one of the above.

Nothing like being forced into consuming their cloud storage so that they can better mine my personal data to jam even more "targeted ads" down my throat.

No thanks. Wake me up when it's over.

Re:Apple-like control

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing like being forced into consuming their cloud storage so that they can better mine my personal data

I'd tend to agree, but most people don't care, so the approach you hate has no trouble succeeding in the marketplace. It's the reason Google wants to shove gapps everywhere, too, all the better to harvest your data, you see.

This is

[Anonymous Coward]

my 'surprised' face.

A fool and his money....

[WolfgangVL]

Can I replace the battery without breaking out a heat gun and/or buying proprietary screwdrivers?
Does it hold a charge for at least an 8 hour work day+ reasonable commute time?
Can I *REALLY* turn its telemetry data reporting off when it suits me?
Does it fit into my reasonably sized pocket?
Does it cost less than a used car?

If the answer to any of these questions is not a triumphant YES!, then I don't see how more control of manufacturing is going to make you more competitive.
Just keep pushing that "pure" experience... less is more.

Re:A fool and his money....

[marcansoft]

Pretty much every Nexus phone has had a battery that is easy to replace, for levels of easy varying from "you can do it with one hand" to "you need a fingernail and a common Philips screwdriver". Sure, the Nexus 5 and 5X batteries aren't officially "user replaceable", but they're about as hard to replace as 4 AA cells in an old toy with a battery lid with screws. It takes more effort to replace the CMOS battery in a random PC than to replace the battery in a Nexus 5 or 5X.

not very Apple-like to give your OS to all OEMs

[raymorris]

The Apple business model for mobile is that to use their software, you must use their hardware, you can only buy media from them and use their media player (iTunes), etc. Google's is, and continues to be, that you can use their OS with any hardware, buy media from any source, and play it with any app. So pretty much the opposite of Apple.

Google plans to have higher quality on their reference design / flagship, the Nexus line. That's cool. Not really related to Apple at all. I suppose Apple doesn't make cheapie crap for the lowest-budget market, such as an $89 tablet, but that's nothing unique to Apple. Heck, even the companies that DO make low-end stuff often don't brand it as theirs, they use a different marque.

Re:not very Apple-like to give your OS to all OEMs

[MightyMartian]

One of the reasons I abandoned iOS for my smart devices is because I was forced to use iTunes for so many things. If I wanted to play videos, I had to convert them to the Apple approved formats, and access to files was a pain in the ass. When I bought my Nexus devices, I could install VLC, play just about any video format, I could copy files on and off the device, build any directory structure I wanted, and in general just have an easier time using my device within my whole computing ecosystem.

Using external storage like MicroSD would be nice, but in general I just move material on and off the devices with a USB cable to my notebook, and for smaller files I have Google Drive or Dropbox.

I'm looking to upgrade my Nexus 7, and it will be with another Android device, hopefully a Nexus, because then I'm not stuck with all the shitware guys like Samsung throw on their devices.

Re:not very Apple-like to give your OS to all OEMs

[drinkypoo]

I'm looking to upgrade my Nexus 7, and it will be with another Android device, hopefully a Nexus, because then I'm not stuck with all the shitware guys like Samsung throw on their devices.

Is that a 1st or a 2nd? If it's a 2nd, I'm not convinced there is actually anything better out there. It is one of the best pieces of hardware in the house. If it's a 1st, well, Tegra 3 is a bit shit... try a Nexus 7 2nd :)

Re:not very Apple-like to give your OS to all OEMs

[fermion]

The reason one uses iPhone is that you use the Apple stack of services. The reason one uses Android is that one uses the Google stack of services. Apple you pay for storage. Google scans your email to sell ads. Google has not updated the office application in years. On an iOS you have office applications from Apple, from MS, from several vendors. Not to mention a pretty good exchange client. You can buy music from anywhere to play on either device. If you are dumb enough to buy copy protected music, that is a personal problem. Video is still locked in, but again, if you buy video that is locked into a device, that again is a personal problem. There is no real reason, other than the preferred supplier of services, to choose one type of phone over the other. However, we do remember that the Nexus One was a failure and those who bought one were left in the lurch, which is one thing Google does. It really has not competency at end user support. In fact, most people don't buy an Android phone, they buy a Samsung, if they can afford one. In fact Apple and Samsung are the only firms making money off phones, and have 40% of the market. Most of the 60% of the market is buying an Android phone because it is free or nearly free, and don't really care who makes it because the don't have the money to pay for a phone or services. Which can work for Google because they are an advertising and marketing company, and the should be able to monetize end user data. Which is to say if they make a Nexus which is free, they could knock out most of the competition. But if they want to pay real money for a phone that is simply going to be used to mine my data, then they can go screw themselves.

Re:not very Apple-like to give your OS to all OEMs

[The-Ixian]

And now they will do both.

Walled garden for those that want that.

Somewhat lower walls for those that don't.

Re:timothy timothy, who the fuck is timothy?

[Chris Mattern]

Why is "timothy" the author of ALL articles on the front page right now?

Bit late to the party, aren't you? Timothy has been the author of every front page article since last Friday.

Uphill Battle

[Dutchmaan]

It's going to take some serious marketing to separate the public's perception of pure android vs. carrier versions... I don't think it's practical to try and have both, unless it's a first step towards attempting to eliminate leverage of the carriers totally, and I don't even think that's possible considering android is basically open source. It would be like Apple having a pure Apple iphone, along with Samsung's iFone, Huwaei's eyeFone+, HTC's iPhon+ - all with their separate flavors of Apple's iOS and specialized functionality, making Apple just a leading player in it's own market. If Google really wants to do this they need deep hardware design and integration to go along with Android, which is where I thought they were heading with Motorola before they got sent down the river.

Drop Dalvik, and then maybe I'll buy

[Anonymous Coward]

Google, drop that Dalvik/Java crap and then you can eat Apple's lunch. That is the #1 thing that is holding Android back. #2 One should not need to pack in a 100MB runtime with their app because the built in Android Browser is broken. #3. Bloody standardize a build of Android that runs on everything.

Like what I'm getting at is that an x86 or ARM build of an app should be able to download the respective executables, and not have to download additional libraries at all. But because of the clusterfark that is Android fragmentation, damn near every App has to ship the entire bloatload of dependencies from the C/C++ runtime to software implementations of h264 and truetype because the apps can not rely on the OS libraries to be up to date. An iOS app does not have this problem. The OS libraries always work and are always up to date unless the user deliberately doesn't update their device (eg jailbroken.) This is why Apps on Android suck. If it's not Dalvik rubbish getting in the way, it's the dependency hell that causes bloat so the average app ends up being 100MB... even for HTML5 apps.

Re:Drop Dalvik, and then maybe I'll buy

[Anonymous Coward]

Google, drop that Dalvik/Java crap and then you can eat Apple's lunch.

Yep. The one thing holding back those droves of apple fans from switching is Android's custom bytecode and runtime. Apple fans care about that kind of stuff, ya know.

Cover up, your ignorance is showing.

Re:Drop Dalvik, and then maybe I'll buy

[oh_my_080980980]

They do when they buy iPhones...moron....

The only device manufacturer that makes money off

[melted]

The only device manufacturer that makes money off Android is Samsung. Good luck "pressuring" those guys to do anything, and without Samsung Android is basically fucked on the high end where all the money is. So I fail to see how this could possibly work.

Didn't google do this already?

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

Didn't they own Motorola and have complete control? Then got rid of that because it made all of the other phone makers feel bad?

What makes a Nexus phone different from an iphone? Neither has an SD card or replaceable battery, yet the Nexus always seems to be about half the price.

I've never had to replace a battery in a phone before it was old and slow and not what I wanted anymore.

I'm rarely out of wifi range AND need direct and immediate access to tons of data, nor have I ever filled up a 32GB phone with what I want to take with me.

Re:Didn't google do this already?

[aaarrrgggh]

Critical mass. Now they can screw over the other manufacturers without repercussion. The others are trapped without Android.

Re:Didn't google do this already?

[Anonymous Coward]

You obviously don't live anywhere with bandwidth caps on both mobile data and home internet connections, like me.

Wattup Soulskill!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ownership comes and goes with their ideas of monetization and world domination, but it's good to see you're still a Soul Man around these parts.

We need more platforms for mobile phones

[Anonymous Coward]

I am alarmed at what is becoming an IOS/Android marketplace while other systems are being phased out. A binary culture of coke or pepsi does not seem progressive. I was hoping for other platforms to emerge and a more technologically diverse ecosystem. Instead we are seeing this IOS/Android duality. It is a pity that the Mozilla OS is getting phased out, as is Blackberry, Windows phone, Ubuntu phone looks like it has little or no traction, Jolla is barely a blip...what does that leave us with? Not much. I am skeptical of monopoly systems. I know, monopolies are supposed to be great for us, it leads to standardization and a consistent experience. But to me, this feels like technological stagnation.

Re:We need more platforms for mobile phones

[nnull]

It's because no one has the resources to send out people to peak the interest of manufacturers like Apple and Google does. You need an army of lawyers, negotiating teams and massive marketing in order to build something on this grand scale which the other OS's aren't doing very well at.

Built for Android developers not hackers

[perpenso]

Built for hackers? No. Maybe built for Android developers, at least in the past where the price tags were relatively low for an unlocked phone.

There is really only one thing that distinguishes Nexus devices from everything else Android. As a Google device its pretty good about getting software updates. OK, a little less factory bundled software is nice too. These software updates are what makes Nexus an excellent phone/tablet for end users too.

The hardware is fine, the OS is horrible

[Anonymous Coward]

Once they fix Android suddenly quality with go up.

Weird situation with partners

[cerberusss]

This is going to make for a weird situation with other phone makers.

Google essentially controls the source code, and keeps it closed for a couple of months until a release. Phone makers used to have early access. But now these same phone makers will be their direct competitors.

Also, Google isn't exactly the bastion of consistence. Previously, they announced that they'd produce and sell a cheap budget Android mobile phone for India. But they have retracted that also, after backlash from local sellers.

TouchWiz

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno, I used stock Android UI before. It pissed me off by how shit it was.
Not to mention the crap UI was far less functional and took more taps to do things. And the double-bar crap. NOPE.
I get physically sick when I see stock Android. It blows so much ass.
It reeks of "made by Google". If you don't know what that means, your opinion is already invalid.

Why the hate for Touchjizz?
TouchWiz is immensely more useful in every sense of the word, unless you are an app babby.
The windowing system alone makes it worth it. (which base Androids version of is still laughably broken)
The system bar is just so many times more useful than stock.
All these little things here and there.

Re:The only device manufacturer that makes money o

[Stuarticus]

Are you trying to say every other manufacturer is losing money? Why do you think there are a million different android devices on the market, they're all just playing the long game hoping it will pay off one day?

Nexus 5X

[rlp]

I really like my Nexus 5X. Using Project Fi so it uses Sprint or T-Mobile (or WiFi) - whichever has a stronger signal. Security updates from Google every month. And the power management is superb - usually end a day with 30 - 40% battery left.

Removable battery not that important (I carry an external, which I haven't needed), but a micro-sd card would have been nice.

Project Ara

[Chewster]

Makes me wonder about the fate of Project Ara (http://www.projectara.com/). If Google could pull this off, then they'd get what the article states they want: a platform that is customizable, suitable for both low-end and mid-range users, constantly upgradeable, and (firmware willing) easily upgradeable to the latest Android version. But considering the restarts the project has, I'm not sure if it will ever see the light of day. I'm still nursing my Nexus5 along, hoping something will appear that will compel me to upgrade, but there's nothing that jumps out.

It's the updates stupid...

[zerofoo]

Apart from a pure android experience, the only reason to buy a Nexus device is timely updates with long-term support.

Handset vendors and mobile network operators have very little reason to provide such software support - and it hurts the quality of the experience.

An in-house Nexus line is only one step to fixing the larger problem of fragmentation in the marketplace.

Nexus is the shit!!!!

[wkwilley2]

I have the Nexus 6 and coming from a Note 3 that had the removable battery and SD card slot, I was bummed out slightly that I wasn't able to use my SD card, but those feelings of remorse quickly subsided.

These phones are awesome, build quality, touch response, phone speed, signal quality, etc etc.

I have no regrets.

Re:Nexus is the shit!!!!

[kb7oeb]

I made the same move, the camera and screen on the note3 were nicer than the 6 but I hated so much else about that phone.

Re:Nexus is the shit!!!!

[wkwilley2]

The only thing i liked more on the Note 3 was the camera app itself. I don't feel like the Nexus 6 takes worse pictures, it just proves more difficult to use the camera and managing pictures takes some time to get used to.

The nexus 6 has a higher resolution screen, which to me, looks way sharper.....the colors also appear more vivid.

Re:The only device manufacturer that makes money o

[oh_my_080980980]

Yeah because there's no one else making Android devices and Google couldn't make their own....

The challenge for Google...

[erp_consultant]

is to convince people that their phone has the same cachet as the iPhone. Apple has managed to do that and that's what allows them to charge premium prices. From a performance/features standpoint the Nexus is on par with the iPhone. Same things from an Apps standpoint.

What Google needs to do is convince customers that they are getting a luxury item. One that is not only worth the money but is desirable and enviable. Apple customers are not only willing to spend the money, they are happy to do so.

Luxury customers don't care about custom ROMs and SD cards. They care about phones that look, feel, and operate in a premium way. They want chic not geek. Google should focus on build quality and longer battery life. Put in really good speakers and better headphones. Give people a way to customize the phone - like the ability to add an etched monogram or high end leather cover on the back.

Instead of some crappy SD card option just give everyone 64GB as a minimum right off the bat with the option to upgrade to more - at a reasonable price. For people that are really into audio strike a deal with a maker of some good high end headphones (Bose maybe?) and offer it as a package deal for those that want it. Offer a super high end camera option for folks that are really into photography and video. In other words, make it customizable to fit the needs of a diverse customer base.

Not everyone. Steve Jobs said "buy Android"

[raymorris]

> The reason one uses iPhone is that you use the Apple stack of services. The reason one uses Android is that one uses the Google stack of services.

The first part of that may be true in many cases. You buy an Apple device to watch Apple's approved videos on Apple's video player. Steve Jobs said âoewe do believe we have a moral responsibility to keep porn off the iPhone. Folks who want porn can buy and [sic] Android phone.â Steve Jobs isn't wrong about his own company's position - if you don't want Apple dictating your moral choices (and all other choices), you should buy Android.

Android, like Linux, is more flexible - you (and an OEM) can set it up how you want it. With Apple's mobile products, it's simpler - they only do it "the right way". Of course Apple's decides which way is "right".

Apple's approach is SIMPLER. Android's is more FLEXIBLE. It's not about choosing between Apple's way, it's often about choosing between Apple's way and your own way.

* Not Apple's vs Google's, Apple's way vs your way

[raymorris]

I missed a couple of words in my concluding sentence. It should be:

It's not about choosing between Apple's way vs Google's way, it's often about choosing between Apple's way vs your own way.

This post written on a Macbook Pro.

Unbalanced parenthesis !!

[Pieroxy]

I can't read past the first paragraph... Too much LISP maybe?

About fucking time

[ilsaloving]

Google's hands off approach is why I wrote off the Android platform. The last Android device I had was a Galaxy S3, and I had to root it, and replace the OS with cyanogenmod just so that I would have a working phone.

This sort of crap is inexcusable.

Now if only Google will also do what Apple does and support their products for a minimum of 3 years, then maybe I'll start taking Android seriously.

Obligatory xkcd

[Daetrin]

(For example, many users are frustrated by Samsung's TouchWiz skin, as well as the bloatware resulting from deals with carriers.

https://xkcd.com/859/

(An unmatched left parenthesis creates an unresolved tension that will stay with you all day.

Re:Ahh "I read it online, it must be true!"

[nnull]

I don't know why you were marked troll, but pretty much Samsung's new touchwiz is very lightweight on resources now and convenient.

Never a nexus

[Anonymous Coward]

I could never buy a nexus phone because of the lack of micro sdCard and removable battery. So I bought an Iphone

Use a USB thumb drive...

[rHBa]

I've owned several Nexus devices and I've never missed not having an SD card slot. You have to root the device and/or install a custom ROM (e.g Cyanogenmod) but that's pretty simple with the Nexus devices. After that you just plug in a USB thumb drive and it is mounted, ready to copy files on/off.

Re:Ahh "I read it online, it must be true!"

[AbRASiON]

It's how you write it, not what you write. This place, like many will often give a +5 to a long post, almost regardless of the content. I've posted here over a decade with a heap of +5's.

Add some passion and swearing and your opinion is magically invalidated. Regardless I stand by the post entirely.