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North Korea Accused of Testing an ICBM With Missile Launch Into Space (examiner.com)
MarkWhittington writes: Reuters reported that North Korea launched a long-range missile that is said to have placed a satellite into space. The launch happened much to the consternation of North Korea's neighbors, South Korea and Japan, as well as the United States. Pyongyang claimed that the missile launch was part of that country's peaceful space program. But, other countries are pretty sure that the launch was a test of an ICBM capable of placing a nuclear weapon on any target in the world, particularly the United States.
The only difference is the payload.
How about a nice game of chess?
It's amazing that NK still has the means to play serious games with the rest of the world. Of course, this test was intended to scare the rest of the world into throwing more money at the madman in charge hoping he stays quite again, for a little while at least. Instead, new ways to provoke an eventual land war will be dreamed up. They won't just go away. China needs to do more to keep NK under control, unless NK's games are tolerated by China for reasons unknown.
They aren't signatories to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. They are parties to the outer space treaty but as long as the US and others have ICBMs I find it hard to argue that ICBMs are covered by that treaty. Makes sense since the weapons don't reside in space nor are designed to target space objects but just pass through space on the way to their targets.
I don't get the US centric bias towards military policy. Basically anyone that becomes capable of attacking the US is automatically an aggressor that needs sanction. What about the US' ability to attack everyone? How about those pricks disarm and reduce their military to 1/10th the size, stop toppling governments because they don't like them etc?
Obviously, the United States should immediately also deploy a missile system capable of delivering a nuclear weapon to North Korea.
That's why if you want to make ICBMs you suddenly sprout a space program.
For what bizarre reason shouldn't North Korea be "allowed" (by whom?!) to have ICBMs when the US - its biggest enemy - also has has them? And why would China "need" to prevent one of its closest allies from protecting itself from a possible american aggression?
North Korea is a sovereign nation and it has the right to have nuclear weapons and ICBMs, so that it will be safe from any possible Iraqi-style american invasion.
...that groups like Daesh, Taliban and the ilk deliver on a good percentage of threats while his NATION hasn't even attempted any of the countless ones they've promised. How many times has he promised to destroy the USA? Has snyone compiled a list of the threats?
China needs to do more to keep NK under control, unless NK's games are tolerated by China for reasons unknown.
The reasons are far from unknown. China is currently grabbing as much territory as they can, anywhere they can:
Baekdu Mountain (North Korea) ...)
Bhutanese enclaves in Tibet (Bhutan)
Demchok, Chumar, Kaurik, Shipki Pass, Jadh, and Lapthal (Taiwan, India)
Hong Kong (Taiwan)
Jiandao (North Korea, South Korea)
Kula Kangri and points West, Haa District (Bhutan)
Macclesfield Bank (Taiwan, Vietnam)
Paracel Islands (Taiwan, Vietnam)
Scarborough Shoal (Taiwan, Philippines)
Senkaku Islands (Taiwan, Japan)
Shaksgam Valley (India)
Arunachal Pradesh (Taiwan, India)
Spratly Islands (Taiwan, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei)
Taiwan (Taiwan)
Eastern Bhutan (Taiwan, Bhutan)
Mainland China, Hainan (Taiwan -- but the PRC has a pretty good claim here 8^)
Western Heixiazi / Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island (Taiwan)
Penghu, Jinmen,Matsu Islands, Pratas Islands (Taiwan)
Songling District, Jiagedaqi District (Mongolia)
Pamir Mountains (Tajikistan)
Yalu River islands (North Korea, South Korea)
Shaksgam Valley (India)
Anything that keeps peoples attention focussed elsewhere is all to the good, as far as China is concerned. The territorial waters claims in the South China Sea, in particular, are important to them in terms of extending their range of control, in order to control fishing rights, since their population is still rising, despite sterilizations after the second child, and similar measures.
When North America gets rid of its 5000 nuclear warheads it will have the moral right to squeal at North Korea. As it stands NK should be applauded for its technological advances. Same goes to Iran.
Because now they cant kill their enemies from arms reach without being hit back!
Who fuckin cares unless we are blowing them up. America is the best county, all you haters here are a bunch of jealous faggots.
Lobbing a nuke on a ballistic trajectory is one thing; building a reliable vehicle to withstand re-entry is quite another.
By the time they've got that figured out they _maybe_ will have also learned to build something more devastating than the firecrackers they've tested thus far. Still capable of considerable damage, of course.
Chinese buyers have purchased massive amounts of real estate in Vancouver, Canada and to a lesser extent in Toronto, Canada.
The US has a missile defense system to shoot down crappy missiles like North Koreas. If it then chooses it could fire its own nuclear weapons at North Korea which is defenseless to that attack. Oh! No! WahhhH! Merica is safe! Butt hurt! Butt hurt! Stupid dick. Why don't you check into what a hell hold North Korea is, how they threat their political prisoners before you shoot off your stupid mouth. Do you really want a regime like North Korea to endure? If so you aren't simply stupid, you're evil.
I was hoping to see a new North Korean rocket, but it looks like another Unha-3 rocket. And, the first stage exploded, so there won't be a recovered intact stage. I was hoping to see a 6 engine cluster of 50 ton thrust engines....
Error 53.
Amazes me how NK can do cruel and horrible things to people LIKE GASSING FAMILIES TOGETHER and can lob rockets over the USes "friends" but the US can only pathetically look on because one look at China and it shits its pants!
Say what you will about Kim Jong Un and the North Koreans, but their generals have the coolest headgear ever.
http://media.themalaysianinsid...
I would totally wear any one of those hats.
And now that I think about it, "Kim Jong Un & The North Koreans" would be a cool name for a thrash-punk band.
You are welcome on my lawn.
[pirate]The Code is more what you call guidelines, than actual rules...[/pirate] and as goes Pirates of the Caribbean, so goes "international law." There are no sovereign rights. There are only guidelines on what is normally allowed to let slide by interested powers. North Korea is allowed to develop nuclear weapons and ICBMs solely due to the crack they fall through in the current balance of power.
Luke, help me take this mask off
At the same time?
All NK has to do to fuck the planet is loft some high explosive packed around a tonne of sand into a retrograde orbit and blow it up.
Goodbye trillions of dollars of fancy hardware once the debris cascade starts. Asymmetric warfare is a bitch ain't it.
What scares me about NK is that their leadership seems not to care about the NK populace. I'd like to think that the US would consider civilian casualties before a launch against another nuclear power, at the very least the extent of US casualties from a successful retaliation. I'm not convinced that NK care about casualties on either side and since so few NK people will have been involved in any launch decision on the part of NK it's hard to think of the average NK guy in the street as the enemy.
Nullius in verba
Would the arguments in favor of weapons from e.g. the NRA (https://home.nra.org/) also apply in favor of letting NK have weapons on par with their potential enemies?
> the launch was a test of an ICBM capable of placing a nuclear weapon on any target in the world, particularly the United States
Then what? The USA has over over 2500 ICBMs capable capable of placing over 8000 nuclear weapons on any target in the world, particularly the DPRK, which she has been threatening for over 60 years. There are many tens of thousands of american troops lined up on the North Korean border, including tactical nuclear weapon units. How many north korean soldiers are there on the US-Mexico or US-Canada border?
Without the internationalist help of advanced rocketry and radar technology from North Korea, the defences of Iran and Cuba would have collapsed long ago, resulting in their crushing underfoot by the anglo-american imperialist powers, resulting in slavery and genocide. North Korea is not fiddle like the russians, they are not a cunning fake ally, they have morals and keep to their ideology, they don't betray their comrades. I toast them as honourable bad guys. Juche Korea!
Or as you put it... "only about 1.5x the world average of ~2.3% of GDP".
Or... we could look at it like this...
USA spends ALONE as much as 9 (NINE) next biggest world military spenders COMBINED. And then some.
USA = China + Saudi Arabia + Russia + UK + France + Japan + India + Germany + South Korea + 14.7 billion dollars (change).
Or, you can take the other source - where USA spends more, but so does everyone else, thus USA spends "only" as much as the next top 7 spenders. And change.
Also, do note that "% of GDP" is just one of the factors one has to take in consideration when comparing military spending.
Otherwise, one might get a bright idea that Saudi Arabia has the biggest and baddest military force on the planet, from all that cherry picking.
On a side note... a large wealthy household being large still makes them assholes for spending millions on lobster and caviar.
Just like "Oh, but I have 5 kids" is not an excuse for speeding in one's Lamborghini - it actually just makes one a bigger dick.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
On a side note... a large wealthy household being large still makes them assholes for spending millions on lobster and caviar.
I was with you up until this point. Buying lobster and caviar makes one an asshole? What exactly should these large, wealthy, hypothetical households be spending their money on instead?
More fear-mongering to make us quiver in our boots about the threat of another boogey man who will lead us all into doom!
BOO!
The NRA has accepted the National Firearms Act of 1934, the Federal Firearms Act of 1968, the National Instant Checks System(NICS) and all of the state level licensing/permit bullshit. Does that mean that N. Korea should accept USA government restrictions on its weapons programs? Your verbiage suggesting that someone (USA?) is "letting" NK develop and acquire weapons is rather telling. As if it's up to the USA government to rule over the world and tell countries what they are allowed to have.
The USA government and media will of course paint NK as the aggressor for its nuke and ICBM tests. Given the USA government's insane foreign policy of bombing, invasion, regime change and global military imperialism however, I don't blame any other country for ramping up its military capabilities.
What would you do as leader of an "Axis of Evil" country?
First, the NRA until relatively recently was NOT a political organization. It's only wing nuts in government that brought them there. Second, the NRA does not condone illegal activity, unlike the Democrat party. Third, the NRA and North Korea have nothing to do with each other.
From what I've seen, even China is getting sick of North Korean antics and have started applying political pressure behind the scenes for them to chill out. Unfortunately, it seems as though NK is ignoring it and going rogue, which is a really bad idea as it's really only the influence that China wields that keeps them from getting steamrolled by any of several other countries or groups.
If anybody here would like to understand the situation in North Korea better, I highly recommend reading Victor Cha's book _The Impossible State: North Korea, Past and Future_. Cha worked for the George W. Bush administration and he's an expert on North Korea. Not to digress, but it would really be helpful is President Obama would make somebody in his staff who pays attention to North Korea read this too. Secretary of State Kerry keeps demanding that China do more. If he'd just read the book or have a staffer summarize it for him, he'd understand why they won't.
Here's the deal. North Korea started the Korean War on their own and Mao and Stalin weren't really happy about it. Stalin refused to get involved although he was willing to for Soviet pilots to serve as the de facto North Korean Air Force during the war. China committed troops only when it looked like MacArthur might actually get up to the border with China and possibly invade China. China paid a real price in blood to save North Korea. Mao's own son was killed in the fighting. So while the old line of North Korea and China being "closer than lips and teeth" is no longer really true, China does feel involved because a lot of her soldiers died in that war and they don't want it to be for nothing.
What Kerry, Obama and others in the US need to understand is what Cha points out in his book. Namely, that China really doesn't like North Korea causing problems but it views all possible outcomes of a post-North Korea version of Korea as really bad for China. China feels stuck in that it knows that North Korea's regime can't last forever, but if it puts too much pressure on them, they may collapse soon and remember, they view all post-DPRNK outcomes as very very bad for China. China fears that a unified Korea will have US soldiers stationed in what is now North Korea, so that means right on its borders. China also fears that once North Korea falls, the border will be overrun with North Koreans (there is an area of China near the border that is majority ethnic Korean, so refugees would likely go there) and China will have a humanitarian disaster on its hands that it will have to spend time and resources to deal with. Additionally, in exchange for their financial support, North Korea is basically selling its rare earths to China at below market prices, so China is financially very vested in maintaining this. A unified Korea is not likely to let China continue to destroy the North Korean countryside to get rare earths at a discount. China doesn't see any possible outcome of a post-North Korea world where things aren't a lot worse for China, so they are caught in rarely using the influence they have. However, outsiders, especially the Obama administration, seem to greatly overestimate what influence China actually has. The reality is that China has more influence than they are willing to use, but not as much as everybody else thinks. The Kim regime will do what it can to survive and if that means going against China, no problem there. China is simply never going to stop providing money and assistance as long as the regime exists, so expecting China to do anything but maintain the status quo is not very likely to happen.
Politicians seem to not care about the citizens of the USA, and the one presidential candidate that does seem concerned with the poor, the homeless, the middle class, the working people of the country -- that guy is shrugged off as a "socialist" and not worthy of consideration.
The USA, as seen from the outside, only seems to care about billionaires, and NOT about the populace. Before you accuse one country of a particular issue, make sure you check the mirror first. Or perhaps listen to news from outside your comfort zone (shortwave radio is a good start) to find out what the rest of the world thinks of you.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
As strange as it is, this does go to show that ICBMs + Nuclear are the equivalent of pulling out a live hand-granade at a meeting.
Guaranteed full attention by everyone present.
There are people who say that the Ukraines biggest mistake was giving up their ICBMs. ... As tough as it is to admit, I think there's some truth in there some where.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca