Apple Announces New Trade Up With Installments Program (betanews.com)

Mark Wilson writes: Today, Apple launched a new program called Trade Up With Installments, which makes it possible to upgrade to the latest iPhone in a more affordable way. As the name suggests, this is more than a straight trade-in program - upgraders can use the trade-in value of their old handset to reduce on-going monthly costs. This is something that will appeal not only to people with older iPhones who are looking to get their hands on a newer model, but also ex-Android fans. Apple is opening up the program, so Android handsets can be traded in and their value offset against the cost of a new iPhone. Windows Phone handsets are also eligible. Trade Up With Installments is slightly different to the existing iPhone Upgrade Program and trade-in option. After handing over your old handset (be it iOS, Windows Phone or Android powered) for part exchange for a new iPhone, you'll then (assuming you qualify) be extended credit and allowed to pay off the remaining balance over 24 months.

Comments

Can I Just Hand Over An Organ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I want one BAD!

I know, it's been done before!

Re:Can I Just Hand Over An Organ?

[Anonymous Coward]

When pricing for a consumer good requires a plan you'd see at a car dealership, I'm wondering when people will be worried.

I'm more afraid now that the lifetime of my Samsung flip phone is coming up short, with it falling apart slowly over the years. I'll miss my week long battery life. All options given by the carrier are either 2 generation old smart phones with a required data plan upgrade (I'd be fine with just wifi access), $200 upgrade to a decent smart phone (w/ new plan), or bulky as hell flip phone that is also ugly and feels cheap.

Re:Can I Just Hand Over An Organ?

[Anonymous Coward]

When pricing for a consumer good requires a plan you'd see at a car dealership, I'm wondering when people will be worried.

Yeah, because buying on installment plans only happens when people buy cars, am i right?

Re:Can I Just Hand Over An Organ?

[OzPeter]

I want one BAD!

I know, it's been done before!

I'd think that for the price of an Organ you could get a lot more than one iPhone

Re:Can I Just Hand Over An Organ?

[jeffb (2.718)]

Go for Ting or one of the other MVNOs. $6 per month per device, and pay-as-you-go by separate buckets for voice, text and data. Don't use cellular data? You pay nothing for it. But if you really need to (say) check a weather warning when you're out of WiFi range, the first 100MB in a month will cost you $3. If you go back to zero usage the next month, you get charged zero for data the next month.

Yes, you have to pay for your phone up front. There are several low-end or older-gen smartphones for $120 or less. If you're going to be picky about what's "decent" under a limited budget, well, you get what you pay for -- or, under the traditional pay-over-a-two-year-contract "cheap phone" arrangement, much less than you pay for.

Re:Can I Just Hand Over An Organ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I just knew when they appointed a gay CEO that it was only a matter of time before he tried to fuck me.

Re:Can I Just Hand Over An Organ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Au contraire, if you check the local online ads in your locale, you'll likely find dozens available for free. Some will even pay you to take their organs.

Re:Can I Just Hand Over An Organ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was once told that all of my problems in life would be solved if I had the correct Mantra to chant, and that this very helpful and friendly group of people could tell me my personalized Mantra.. for $8000.

Even more helpfully, they offered an installment plan for payment.

Drop it first day

[oic0]

Then pay monthly for 2 years for your paper weight...

Re:Drop it first day

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but how is that different than buying a car and totalling it the first day? Or buying a house and burning it down the first day?

If you aren't going to be responsible with the stuff you buy (and didn't buy insurance to protect your purchase) then that's your own damn fault.

I'm not going to have much sympathy for someone who drops their phone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lhXOgJ8ahA

Re:Drop it first day

[Anonymous Coward]

Gap insurance for iPhones. How you know that they too fucking expensive.

Re:Drop it first day

[Anonymous Coward]

Or pay it off immediately. The iPhone Upgrade Program is nothing more than an interest free 24 month loan used as a method of spreading the cost of the new phone over 24 months with the option of trading in on a new one in 12 months and starting over. It doesn't cost anything more than buying the phone outright and there is no penalty to paying off the 24 month loan early.

This is no different then dropping any other new expensive toy on the first day. Not really sure what you're on about here.

Sprint's iPhone Forever

[Anonymous Coward]

I got suckered into a Sprint iPhone Forever plan. "You can always upgrade to the latest iPhone for no charge."

1. You don't own the phone. You're only leasing it.
2. You're paying way more for the phone over its life, even if the monthly payments are relatively small.
3. You don't qualify for the advertised $5/month, you have to pay $10.
4. The buyout, after paying $400 in leasing fees for the phone is huge!
5. You bill doesn't go down at all, it goes up by a few dollars a month.
6. Rampant "surcharges" still exist.

But, you can have a new iPhone in a year or two. So there's that.

windows phone maybe

[roc97007]

I could see people trading in Windows Phone for an iPhone. Not because the iPhone is more usable (many Windows Phone users would argue this isn't the case) but because of the iPhone's richer ecosystem and brighter future. But trade in an Android for an iPhone? Maybe carrying a high end Android phone colors my judgement, but I don't see why anyone would want to do that. Heck, just being able to open the phone's internal storage and SD card in a browser without having to funnel everything through iTunes is worth sticking with what I have. Not to mention, the fact that it takes an SD card, supports widgets, supports sideloading, has a user replaceable battery, and all the other usual stuff.

I think a legitimate question would be, what happens with all those traded-in phones every time Apple comes out with some incremental improvement? I would hate to think it just ends up as electronic waste. (I'm not trying to make a point here; I'd really like to know.)

Re:windows phone maybe

[tnk1]

There is probably some resale and refurb for downstream markets, but honestly, it is mostly e-waste. Apple gains no advantage in causing the market to be filled with old versions of their hardware.

Re:windows phone maybe

[timmyf2371]

I think it's definitely a case that your judgement is clouded by the phone you use (or indeed vice versa!) I am an iPhone user and feel negatively towards Android and neutral towards Windows Phone. We each have our opinions on this and the world would be a boring place without diversity. :-)

But I think this programme will attract the users who don't care about the platform they use. For a lot of people, all they know is that their new phone menu is a bit different or the SMS icon is a different colour. Apple is betting that a) this scheme will bring new users to the platform and b) that the customers will become loyal iPhone customers.

Re:windows phone maybe

[DogDude]

FWIW, I use a Windows Phone now, and they couldn't pay me to use an iPhone. Those things are horrid.

Re:windows phone maybe

[roc97007]

> [...] but honestly, it is mostly e-waste. Apple gains no advantage in causing the market to be filled with old versions of their hardware.

Was my thought also. From an e-waste standpoint, it might even be better to sell your old iphone on ebay, or donate it to some charity, rather than trade it in. But the people who line up in the rain waiting for the store to open when a new iphone comes out are probably not thinking in those terms.

Re:windows phone maybe

[vux984]

I could see people trading in Windows Phone for an iPhone

Carriers have run these plans themselves for years already. The trade in credit for your existing phone is universally laughably bad, and its always better to just keep your old phone in case you lose or break your new one -- so you have a working device you can fall back to.

Or you can flip your old phone on craigslist for double to quintuple what its trade in value is.

I think a legitimate question would be, what happens with all those traded-in phones every time Apple comes out with some incremental improvement?

trade in iphones 5s and newer will be refurbished if in good condition, and used as warranty replacements etc.

Androids and windows phones and older iphones are likely sent away to be recycled. Maybe if we're lucky they get donated to some program to give them 3rd world users, or otherwise disadvantaged people-in-need.

Re:windows phone maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

My guess is the non-apple phones go to some place like gazelle and the apple stuff gets recycled/refurbished in their standard eco-friendly way. You can bring in your old computers that are broken and they'll recycle them for you; they started that a ways back. Went from the least-green to most-green in a matter of a few years.

Re:windows phone maybe

[CastrTroy]

I think that Apple is just doing all they can to make buying a $700 phone enticing. In a world where a $100 phone is easily obtained, a $200 phone will fulfill most people's needs, and a $300 phone will get you something that would be good enough for 99.9% of people's needs, asking people to pay $700 for a phone either up front or with installments isn't going to last much longer.

I paid $200 for my current phone, and I have zero problems with the performance or quality of this phone. It's a Windows Phone, so there's the lack of apps, but there's no way I'm going to ever spend $700 on a phone. In 2-3 years I'm sure the $100 phones will be all I need. Eventually a $200 phone will fulfill 99.9% of people's requirements. At that point Apple has to come up with a really compelling story about why people should still be paying $700 for a phone.

Re:windows phone maybe

[roc97007]

The question becomes, if the differences aren't important, are the boutique prices justified?

Re:windows phone maybe

[Nidi62]

There is probably some resale and refurb for downstream markets, but honestly, it is mostly e-waste. Apple gains no advantage in causing the market to be filled with old versions of their hardware.

Developing markets. Think SE Asia and Africa. People in these places might not be able to afford brand new electronic devices, but a lot of used devices get shipped over there for resale. Why sell it once and then destroy it when you can sell it (at a huge profit), "buy" it back (maybe $200 credit towards a new device), then sell it again for a fraction of the original price but which is virtually all additional profit?

Re:windows phone maybe

[roc97007]

I think that Apple is just doing all they can to make buying a $700 phone enticing. In a world where a $100 phone is easily obtained, a $200 phone will fulfill most people's needs, and a $300 phone will get you something that would be good enough for 99.9% of people's needs, asking people to pay $700 for a phone either up front or with installments isn't going to last much longer.

I paid $200 for my current phone, and I have zero problems with the performance or quality of this phone. It's a Windows Phone, so there's the lack of apps, but there's no way I'm going to ever spend $700 on a phone. In 2-3 years I'm sure the $100 phones will be all I need. Eventually a $200 phone will fulfill 99.9% of people's requirements. At that point Apple has to come up with a really compelling story about why people should still be paying $700 for a phone.

That's a really good point. I happen to be carrying a "refurbished" (probably a trade-in) Samsung Note 3, which isn't by any means the latest but is almost embarrassingly more capable than I need. I got it because the price was decent ($250 cash, no monthly payments) despite the stylus which I have yet to use, past just testing whether it works.

On lack of apps, the important thing is not how many thousands of apps are available, but that the apps you need are available. If that's the case, there's no reason not to stick with what you have.

Mind you, a few years ago when we were all on the steep end of the curve, there was a reason to pine for the next release or the next iteration of hardware, but not really anymore, for most of us.

Re:windows phone maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

This is only tangentially related but I don't see why the major mobile platform owners don't offer a "transfer" program that transfers apps from one ecosystem to another, possibly for a small fee. I mean, I know plenty of people who'd love to jump ship to Android (recent iPhones have been amazingly bad - see Antennagate, Bendgate, Chipgate, and Batterygate) but they don't want to have to rebuy literally $100s of apps.

If Google just offered a simple "move to Android" incentive program, Apple's user share would plummet even faster than it already is.

Windows Phone is still fucked, of course, but it couldn't hurt for Microsoft to try something similar?

Re:windows phone maybe

[roc97007]

FWIW, I use a Windows Phone now, and they couldn't pay me to use an iPhone. Those things are horrid.

It does seem like the iPhone UI has fallen behind the times. Maybe the company misses Jobs more than even they realize.

Re:windows phone maybe

[FlyHelicopters]

I tend to agree with you...

I paid the premium for the iPhone 6 Plus, even getting 128GB versions of them (bought 2, one for me, one for my wife).

But we plan to live with them for a long time, well beyond the normal two year upgrade. What happens when they no longer perform remains up for debate.

But just like PCs that used to cost thousands and now cost hundreds, the idea of phones still costing $700+ in a few years is likely to be a problem for Apple.

Mac are expensive, but they have their fans, but it is a limited market. The iPhone is nearly 2/3 of all Apple's gross revenue, that won't continue forever at the current prices.

Side note: If Apple would get real with prices, Mac could be 20+% of the PC market if they wanted it. I'd buy one.

Re:windows phone maybe

[roc97007]

This is only tangentially related but I don't see why the major mobile platform owners don't offer a "transfer" program that transfers apps from one ecosystem to another, possibly for a small fee. I mean, I know plenty of people who'd love to jump ship to Android (recent iPhones have been amazingly bad - see Antennagate, Bendgate, Chipgate, and Batterygate) but they don't want to have to rebuy literally $100s of apps.

If Google just offered a simple "move to Android" incentive program, Apple's user share would plummet even faster than it already is.

Windows Phone is still fucked, of course, but it couldn't hurt for Microsoft to try something similar?

I actually have no idea how that works. Back when dinosaurs still ruled the earth, I migrated from Palm to Blackberry, and many of the apps I paid for on Palm could be migrated to Blackberry merely by contacting the app provider and requesting a license key. When migrating to Android, I contacted the few vendors of apps on BB I wanted to keep and in most cases was able to migrate without additional cost. (Required side-loading in some cases.) I can see where contacting each individual vendor separately would not be tenable if you had a lot of apps. I agree, an automatic process would help. The problem I see is that whomever manages the Apple Store and Google Play are probably mortal enemies.

Re:windows phone maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

"high end android phone"

they're the same chinese crap as all the apple phones. you dorks.

Re:windows phone maybe

[dgatwood]

I think that Apple is just doing all they can to make buying a $700 phone enticing.

Except they aren't doing nearly all that they can. One big change they could make that would both improve sales and reduce prices is to add a micro-SD card slot to the iPhone, and then stop selling phones with larger capacity built-in.

Apple tacks on an extra $100 to move from 16 GB to 64 GB, and another $100 to move to 128 GB. I can buy a 64 GB micro-SD card for $30 from Amazon, or a 128 GB card for $45. So Apple is charging about 4x the normal market price for iPhone flash upgrades. And nearly everybody has to pay that first $100 simply because 16 GB is too small for most people, and because they're afraid that they will run out of space, and then will suffer until they replace their phone in three years.

This requirement that users know how much space they're going to use before they buy the phone is a real burden, both on users and on the flash manufacturing industry. It causes people to over-buy (most of those folks would be fine with 32 GB), and worse, causes people to re-buy the flash components every time they replace their devices. They could easily move their photos and other large content to their new phone by moving the flash card were it not soldered to the phone's main board.

If every iPhone came with only 16 GB and stored additional content on the micro-SD card, then there would be only one model of iPhone per form factor, which means less customer confusion, fewer supply chain issues, and fewer problems for the companies selling the products (customers not being able to find the particular model that they want).

The cost of the phone would also drop substantially within a couple of years. Right now, the flash manufacturers are barely able to meet demand. If people weren't over-buying flash initially and then re-buying flash every time they upgrade their phones, within a year or two, the demand would drop substantially, and flash prices would drop substantially, allowing Apple to reduce their manufacturing costs and, eventually, the price of the phones themselves.

That reduction in demand for flash would also have far-reaching impacts on the computer market. Instead of limiting their laptops to 1 TB because of lack of parts availability, Apple could sell laptops with multi-TB flash drives, and people would be able to afford them because of the reduced cost of flash.

Re:windows phone maybe

[Khashishi]

Right. Apple isn't buying back these products because they have some use for them. They are buying them back to take them out of the market and to reel in a new customer.

Re:windows phone maybe

[BronsCon]

This. Though I do have to say iOS seems to beat Android in the tablet realm; possibly just down to how I use a tablet vs how I use my phone. That said, I just got a Yoga Tablet 2 running Win 8.1 (immediately upgraded to Win 10) and the ability to switch between tablet mode and desktop mode while running full desktop applications is a godsend; the 15hr battery life ain't half bad either. Beats the pants off of anything I've seen from iOS or Android.

Re:windows phone maybe

[BronsCon]

The trade in credit for your existing phone is universally laughably bad

Unless you subscribe to T-Mobile's JUMP! plan, wherein they pay the remainder of what you owe on the device as a trade-in. The only downside I've seen is that it basically punishes you for not upgrading as soon as you're eligible, but even at that the trade-in value is more than other programs are offering. By the time the phone is paid in full, its trade-in value would be near zero anyway, but then you own it and can sell it if you so choose.

In fact, Apple's new program is almost identical to JUMP! except that JUMP! includes phone insurance and a handful of other services not included in Apple's offering. Ignoring that (and many here will, especially if they would not use those services in the first place, which is fair), they offer the same utility and the same drawbacks, the primary benefit to JUMP! being that you can choose any phone T-Mobile sells.

For me, the primary benefit of JUMP! was that, at $10/mo per phone, it cost $3.98/mo less than insurance for two phones, and it included the insurance! The guaranteed trade-in value, Lookout Mobile Premium ($9.98/mo for two phones) subscription, and Rhapsody ($9.98/mo for two users) subscriptions are just bonuses at that point; and, since I do use those services, that's a savings of $23.94/mo for me. Of course, JUMP! just went up to $12/mo for the phones I have, but I'm fine with that given that the insurance went up to $14.99/mo, increasing my savings on that to $5.98/mo and my overall savings to $25.94/mo.

If I were to leave T-Mobile for an MVNO, assuming I were willing to give up my unlimited data to do so, having to pay for continued use of Lookout and Rhapsody or both phones would put me right about where I am now, bill-wise. I might save a dollar or two per month, but the loss of insurance and trade-in value makes that not worthwhile.

Re:windows phone maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

I was just thinking, this is a chance for those unfortunates who ended up with an Android to finally get a real phone.

Re:windows phone maybe

[roc97007]

Yeah. Unfortunately, Blackberry isn't doing very well right now.

Re:windows phone maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

*shrug* Obviously not scientific, but I can say from my own personal experience that I know several people who have moved from Android to iPhone for various reasons but I have honestly never met anyone who has gone the other way.

I do know one person who has a personal Android phone and a corporate iPhone and they hate their iPhone. Granted their iPhone is under some serious corporate lockdown so she is constantly griping about the phone being so much more restrictive than Android not understanding that the restriction is due to her company not due to the phone.

Re:windows phone maybe

[roc97007]

> *shrug* Obviously not scientific, but I can say from my own personal experience that I know several people who have moved from Android to iPhone for various reasons but I have honestly never met anyone who has gone the other way.

I think this is partly because it's difficult to migrate off the iPhone. Everything lives in itunes, and the iphone/itunes paring is intentionally difficult to exploit. Apple has every business reason to keep things locked down as much as possible and no reason at all to make it easy to migrate. With the Android phone, on the other hand, I just plug it into the laptop and my files appear in a browser, both the system memory and SD card, which makes migrating stuff to a different phone dead simple. (I have family photos on the current phone that have made the transition from Blackberry Tour to Droid X to Razr HD to Samsung Note. Drag and drop, even across vendors.) I stay with Android because I want to, not because I have to.

Although the hardware and vendor have changed over the years. The first Samsung Galaxys were crap, and during that time I stayed with Motorola. (Whereas, if you had the "You're Holding It Wrong" model of iPhone, you didn't have anywhere else to go.) Now I have a phone (Galaxy Note 3) which has more capability than I can use, and I suspect I'll keep it until it doesn't work anymore. When is the last time you heard an iPhone user say "I'll keep this phone until it doesn't work anymore"? The intention is only to keep it until the next tiny, trendy improvement comes out.

BTW, do you know how long it takes to recharge a Note 3? I timed it -- about 35 seconds. Power off, pop off the back, pop out the battery, push in a new battery, pop the back on, power on.

installment plan...

[The-Ixian]

So instead of a $600 iPhone (that cost a fraction of that to make), I get to pay $1200 over the course of 2 years... what a deal.

This is the kind of predatory crap I expect from a loan shark not from... oh wait, nm.

Re:installment plan...

[93 Escort Wagon]

T-Mobile let's you pay off your iPhone - or Android phone, for that matter - over 24 months at 0% interest. I can't imagine Apple is going to match those terms (the article basically has no details other than the program exists).

IF Apple did offer 0% financing, that'd be compelling simply because you'd get an unlocked phone.

Re:installment plan...

[Anonymous Coward]

The deal is at cost, and includes a replacement warranty for 2 years. Back under the bridge troll!

Re:installment plan...

[luiss]

I don't know why the articles are making this out to be so complicated.

1. Take the price of the phone you want. e.g. iPhone 6s 64GB: $749.00
2. Subtract the value of your trade in to get the amount you are going to pay. e.g. iPhone 5c: $749.00 - $200.00 = 549.00
3. Divide in 24 equal, interest free payments. e.g. $549.00 / 24 = $22.87 a month

You might be forced to pay the entire sales tax upon purchase.

Re:installment plan...

[Anonymous Coward]

Part of the problem is how ridiculously expensive some of these phones are at retail pricing. All 3 of my Android phones retailed for about $600 by the time I was planning to upgrade. I didn't have the cash to buy it outright, so I just added a monthly fee to cover the cost of the phone to my bill for the next two years. It's a nice scheme for the companies. Not only making people think they need to upgrade every two years (if not sooner) while making some interest off the deal. That way, people can have their nice shiny device and the companies get a steady revenue stream.

It seems that financing phones these days is by far the most popular option. My wife and I both switched over to T-Mobile and we were planning on getting the Lumia 640. At the time they were $150 each (now they are like $50), and we were paying cash. The guy checking us out wanted to do a credit check and let us finance $300 worth of product (interest free at least). He was taken aback when I told him I am paying for the phone outright.

Re:installment plan...

[Kjella]

So instead of a $600 iPhone (that cost a fraction of that to make), I get to pay $1200 over the course of 2 years... what a deal. This is the kind of predatory crap I expect from a loan shark not from... oh wait, nm.

I'm not surprised that Apple is trying to get in on this action as "buy now, pay later" deals are a huge business just like credit cards and once you're hooked... I got a friend of mine who lacks impulse control, maxed loans and maxed credit card debt. But he's a "functional shopoholic" meaning he manages to pay interest every month. And of course complains that he's short on cash, well I'd be too if that much of my paycheck just disappeared on top of my fixed costs. And what it means is that every time he gets a little breathing room he feels he's been frugal for so long the temptation to splurge is so great he ends up right back where he started. It's a negative spiral.

Personally I'm the other way around, if I have some leftover disposable cash I'll make a down payment on my mortgage - no credit card debt - so that next month, I'll have even more disposable cash. That's the positive spiral, once you have a growing surplus it becomes easier and easier not to spend all of it. I realize that most people can't make the huge investments like house and car without loans. But a phone? If I couldn't buy an iPhone outright, I'd just get some cheap-ass Android phone until I could. Because what happens when you bat outside your economic league is it catches up to you, my friend's economy is just getting worse and worse relative to mine. Which of course doesn't help...

rattles around

[Hognoxious]

If a 7" butt plug rattles around, trade it in for a 12.

Sneetches And Their Stars

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought poor people were supposed to buy the iPhone 5C? How am I supposed to know who's poorer than I am if everyone has the latest iPhone?

Re:Sneetches And Their Stars

[Austerity Empowers]

You can look at the watch. Anyone not wearing the gold one is inferior.

Re:Sneetches And Their Stars

[Anonymous Coward]

Word, Kanye. Hope Zuck comes up with that $1B for you real soon!

Was it Apple Credit?

[stackOVFL]

I remember buying a Macintosh Plus in the 80's on some kind of Apple furnished credit. I forget the credit plan it was called though.

Oh great, thanks....

[tekrat]

This comes two months after I just paid a small fortune for a iPhone 6s. It's a good enough phone, but man was it expensive!

Re:A good example of why Android sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

How easy it to stay up to date with iPhone? Easy, just own something like a 4S or newer. iOS 9 runs great on a 4S given its age. Now you can even upgrade easily with this new program if you want something like the latest camera hardware or a little bit more CPU speed. What can Android say to this? What a year or more to maybe get the latest meanwhile enjoy all the bugs and security wholes? Android = fragmentation hell. Unless you wanna pour out all your money for a brand new Nexus device. This is why I own an iPhone.

Hey now, I'm still on security partials. I haven't had time to upgrade.

New iPhone 7S

[Anonymous Coward]

With built in Goatse. Only $99 a month and your soul.

What happened to the paid advertisement?

[wjcofkc]

A very short while ago this was not on the top spot as a new story and was in fact a paid advertisement. It even said "paid post" and was in that brownish orange color. Now it's this. WTF?

Re:What happened to the paid advertisement?

[wjcofkc]

I hate to reply to my self, but when you click on the submitter name "Mark Wilson" he does not exist.

Re:What happened to the paid advertisement?

[Anonymous Coward]

This place has stunk of Apple shilling and adverts for years. The new owners need to make money from a PERL script, expect more of this fake article crap.

Re:What happened to the paid advertisement?

[whipslash]

That's weird. We're investigating.

Re:What happened to the paid advertisement?

[whipslash]

We pushed our code live today to remove videos from Slashdot. We are looking at the changes to see if this caused any glitches. We are definitely not converting paid stories into real stories.

Re:What happened to the paid advertisement?

[whipslash]

Investigating this issue as well

Re:What happened to the paid advertisement?

[wjcofkc]

Please provide the results of your investigation.

Re:What happened to the paid advertisement?

[whipslash]

I will. If you see it again please send a screenshot to feedback@slashdot.org

Interesting....

[MiniMike]

I wonder part of the motivation for this plan is to get all of the older "hackable" iPhone models off the market before Apple is asked to break into another one.

Re:Interesting....

[93 Escort Wagon]

I wonder part of the motivation for this plan is to get all of the older "hackable" iPhone models off the market before Apple is asked to break into another one.

That's an interesting thought. To be honest, while I prefer to hold onto hardware for as long as it does the job - I've been considering whether I should try getting my wife to upgrade her iPhone 5 for this very reason (since the 5 doesn't have the secure enclave and TouchID). Given the US government's demonstrated inability to keep important information secure, I am assuming criminals will have the master iPhone unlock tool in short order - should Apple lose their court fight.

Why don't you try telling the truth instead?

[Brannon]

Apple is giving you 24 equal, INTEREST-free payments. They aren't charging you 100% interest as you claim, they are charging you 0% interest.

That makes you 100% a liar.

Ooooooh

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Must....have....new....shiny...

Clearly I'm out of touch with reality or fashion or consumer desires.

I'm fascinated by how deeply people covet a new gadget like a phone. Is it a status thing, or do they feel some sort of ego-deflation if they aren't carrying the latest phone/tablet/whatever? Is it a fashion thing, or do people feel like a lower caste when they aren't carrying the newest shiny rectangle?

I mean, if you want to, that's great, more power to ya, but it seems a little neurotic to me. It always astounds me that people will wait in line to buy the newest phone.

Couldn't they just wait a day or two? Do they have to buy one on the first day? Do they feel some kind of shame if the store sells out before they can buy one? I mean, yeah, the iPhone is a cool gadget and a great phone, but the attention paid to it (and other gadgets) seems to border on religious fervor.

Okay, okay, I realize I'm an outlier when it comes to this stuff. For me, when I go to buy a gadget like a phone and I find that I really like it, I'm always tempted to go buy another identical one and put it away on a shelf somewhere because I know that when the current one breaks I'll be unable to buy another one just like it. I just want to find something that works and that I like, and use it for as long as possible.

What's with the "upgradeitis" that so many people appear to be infected with?? Is the new phone or whatever really going to be that much better?

Re:Ooooooh

[iampiti]

Like what happened on PCs, it used to be that the next model was a significant upgrade over the last but that's getting less and less true. We're still at a point where the newer models usually bring something which is nice but it's usually not essential.
What I mean to say is: Yes, for some people having the newest phone is a status thing. I've even seen people admit they have the iPhone because is what cool people have.
Of course I'm not critisizing them, everyone spends their money on whatever they find satisfying. I could keep my Galaxy s4 forever. The hardware is good enough for me.

Re:Ooooooh

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Like what happened on PCs, it used to be that the next model was a significant upgrade over the last but that's getting less and less true.

Yep, we're hitting the long plateau in computing. There's little to be gained in upgrading every year like it has been for the past decade or so.

If I upgraded my PC now I'd get a little more memory, a slightly bigger hard drive (mostly useless space) and a marginally faster processor. The difference would be minimal in terms of the actual perceived experience. Not like going from an XT to an AT to a Pentium.

Re:Ooooooh

[antdude]

Ditto. Older stuff work better and is cheaper like analog hearing aids, Y2K KVMs, VGA, VCRs, etc.

Re:Ooooooh

[turp182]

Here, here!

My wife and I have purchased no less than six Nexus 5 phones, mostly due to her dropping them (immediately after taking off her case twice).

I have another one coming via Swappa right now as my camera and light have stopped working (due to dropping).

We also keep two functional ones with cracked screens around in case our phones fail, we can just swap the SIM can keep going until the replacement phone is purchased.

Not having a home phone makes having a replacement laying around a bit of a necessity (due to the "always connected" nature of current lifestyles).

Oh, and iTunes is terrible. Apple support is actually really good though (live human being in the US available in about 3 minutes yesterday, and with a good approach to my iPad situation).

Re:Ooooooh

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Ditto. Older stuff work better and is cheaper like analog hearing aids, Y2K KVMs, VGA, VCRs, etc.

I like the new stuff, and often it's better than something a few revs/generations back...it's just that when I find something I like I tend to stick with it for a long time.

On the other hand, a lot of the newer stuff is often made so cheaply that it either barely works or it doesn't work for very long.

Re:Ooooooh

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Oh, and iTunes is terrible.

"Terrible" is really too kind.

iTunes is probably the single worst software abortion I've personally ever dealt with. It's the mother lode of shitty, craptastic UI-design concepts, wrapped in a stinking shell of "how-the-fuck-do-I-do-this?" Doing the simplest goddamn things are an exercise in frustration.

It's hard to believe that a company that makes such impressive hardware churns out such execrable software.

Re:Ooooooh

[antdude]

Which newer stuff do you like? I agree on the cheap quality stuff. :( DVRs are awesome, but they're so buggy!

Re:Ooooooh

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Which newer stuff do you like?

Well, I like the advent of things like $50 dashcams, decent phones for $100 or less*, inexpensive GPS devices, stuff like that. I like the fact that capable laptops are available for $300 or so. LED bulbs are down to $4 ~ $6 or so, and good photo scanners are under $50. There's a lot of good, low-cost stuff available. Whether it lasts or not remains to be seen, but a lot of it seems to be of reasonable quality for the money.

I'm not a Luddite, I just find something I like and use it until it breaks or until I feel the need to get something else. I had my home automated decades ago and appreciate all the new medical technology in use. I just don't feel driven to upgrade every time the number on the box changes or every time something new is released.

-

* I recently "upgraded to a Samsung Rugby Pro for $99. Great phone for my use, mil-spec rugged, water resistant, etc. It's by no means the fanciest phone available, but it's perfect for me. I don't load any apps or junk on it, it's just for calling and the occasional picture. And I could buy 5 or 6 of them for the price of a new iPhone or Galaxy S-series. What's not to like about that? :)

Re:Ooooooh

[SirMasterboy]

I buy a new phone every year but I don't wait in line or care if I have to wait a couple weeks to get mine.

The reason I do it is because tech gadgets are my hobby and I enjoy using them a lot and like to use the new features. The cost is really not an issue for me at all. I'm not accumulating debt or denying myself something else I need just to get a new phone. Plenty of other people have much more expensive hobbies than mine.

Do I really have a problem? Is it really hard to understand that I just like playing with and utilizing new toys?

Re:Ooooooh

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

The reason I do it is because tech gadgets are my hobby and I enjoy using them a lot and like to use the new features.

That sounds entirely reasonable to me. I think that's great and I'm glad you enjoy that as a hobby.

-

Do I really have a problem? Is it really hard to understand that I just like playing with and utilizing new toys?

No, I don't think you have a problem, but you're also not the kind of person that I was speaking of in general. I was speaking more of the fashionistas who claim they need that new phone or car or shoe or whatever, but can't really explain why.

desperation?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm I smell desperation from the apple camp..
Just admit, abide, and stand aside. ANDROID IS HERE
is this in reaction to the notion that android is #1 in the env..

Is it because, Apple has lost sight of the real value of their own products, their own values, and or their own relevance???

I usually see this from companies whom are about to go out of business, looking for a last-ditch attempt to gain traction..

And based on the latest security spoof against the ifone, I would not be suprised if this is infact an act of desperation?
moving forward why wont apple fix their current state of affairs.

forget penetration, lets talk about stabilization

Re:desperation?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Hmm I smell desperation from the apple camp..
Just admit, abide, and stand aside. ANDROID IS HERE
is this in reaction to the notion that android is #1 in the env..

Fandroids are weird.

Here's how the plan works

[goombah99]

1) you visit the iphone sales man and he offers you a choice of two envelopes which contain a trade in rebate for your phone.

2) he tells you one of the envelopes has a rebate 2 times bigger than the other one.

3) you pick one at random. And before you look inside he says you can switch if you want to.

If you think this though it's clear you should switch. Imagine there's $100 in the envelope. You had a fair choice so with 50-50 odds the other envelop has $50 or $200. The expected value of switching is the weighted odds of the payoff minus the cost of giving up the $100 you have now. That is to say
50%*$50 + 50%*$200 - 100%*$100 = $25

Thus clearly the expected benefit to switching is $25 dollars better than you have now. so you switch.

Now it doesn't really matter what the value in the envelope is. Maybe it wasn't $100. Even so whatever it is, the math says switch cause you gain 25% of whatever is in there. So you don't actually have to look in the envelope to want to switch. It's always a net expected gain to switch.

Now suppose you dind't look but after switching you do look inside and you see the $100. You now do the same math and clearly yyou should switch back for that $25 expected gain.

4) the salesman says sure, you can switch back, but there will be a $24 fee to do that. Even so, it's still a net expected gain of $1. So of course you will pay to switch.

5) you switch, and boo hoo, you see there's a $50 in there. Bad luck. But no worries. The sales man says he has another envelop that has either 25 or $100 in it and for th small fee of 12.50 he will let you try your luck. .....

If you need installments to pay for your phone...

[kervin]

...then strongly consider purchasing a cheaper phone. Maybe go refurb or buy last years model for instance. But don't get sucked into the constant upgrade cycle that marketing leads us to believe is inevitable.

Probably for the same reason...

[Brannon]

that you derive some holier than thou pleasure by pointing and laughing at other people's consumerism.

Presumably you don't indulge in any non-essential spending in any phase of your life, right? You live in a grass hut, drink spring water and you're nourished only by your own sense of self-satisfaction.

Different people choose to spend their money on different things. Just because someone gets a rush of anticipation at some new technical gadget doesn't mean it's ego-driven or caste-based. Just like when you buy whatever douchey shit you're into doesn't mean that you are doing it for elitist reasons.

What does make you an elitist is looking down your nose at everyone else. It also makes you a dick.

Re:Probably for the same reason...

[Anonymous Coward]

Or maybe the guy is concerned about the massive quantities of no-longer-fashionable devices piling up in landfills.

Re:Probably for the same reason...

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

that you derive some holier than thou pleasure by pointing and laughing at other people's consumerism.

Not at all, I merely said that I was kind of baffled by it. Perhaps you should try reading what I wrote without the bias.

What does make you an elitist is looking down your nose at everyone else. It also makes you a dick.

I wasn't looking down my nose at anyone, like I said, I was more baffled by the preoccupation of having the latest and greatest gadget than anything else.

But it sure sounds like you're one of those guys who camps out at the Apple store day in advance in anticipation of the next iphone, so I'm not surprised you took offense. :)

Re:Probably for the same reason...

[Anonymous Coward]

whoa! defensive. It's ok man, enjoy your phone. heh

Mind exploded

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay my brain just went BANG! I'd say that was impossibly wrong reasoning except there doesn't seem to be any flaw at all.

Re:Mind exploded

[Hognoxious]

I think I've heard it before, but with a goat involved somewhere.

Re:Mind exploded

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no point in switching at the start of the exercise without any extra knowledge.

If we have $X in our current envelope, we have a 50% chance of playing with (X, 2X) and a 50% chance of playing with (1/2X, X).

In the first scenario, the profit would be X from switching, and the average amount contained in the envelopes is 3X/2.

In the second scenario, the loss would be X/2, and the average amount in all envelopes would be 3X/4.

Now, let's calculate the expected gain from switching.

Gain = 50% ( +X / (3X/2) ) + 50% ( -(X/2) / (3X/4) ) = 0

Re:Mind exploded

[dougmc]

There is no point in switching at the start of the exercise without any extra knowledge.

He's clearly strongly alluding to the Monty Hall problem/, where there is a significant advantage to switching. In that case, there *is* extra knowledge, but it's obfuscated somewhat --the door that Monty opens is always one of the goats, so he knows where at least one of the goats is.

That said ... I think he screwed it up somehow, because I don't see a point in switching (or in not switching) in the first place either, yet he seems assured that there is one. In the Monty Hall problem there's some extra information provided before you switch ... but not here.

All in all, I see that he's portraying it as a shell game (though the classic Monty Hall game isn't one) but something doesn't add up ...

Never worth it

[kuzb]

Trade-in programs are never worth it. They're always designed in favor of the house - you are much better off just selling your device on ebay, craigslist, or swappa.

Frankly I don't understand why people keep buying iphones. They're not the best devices on the block anymore.

Re:Never worth it

[pauljlucas]

At the time, Verizon's trade-in program was pretty good. I got a new iPhone 6 trading-in a 4s and my new phone only cost me about $100. I think they gave me what I would have gotten for the 4s on eBay (at best) and without having to take the time to meet the prospective buyer, demo the phone (to prove that it works), etc. My time is also valuable.

Apple has some used phones to sell you

[Anonymous Coward]

Only been used in mass murder once, never unlocked.

What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Phone "handset?"

Maybe your definition of 'best' isn't universal.

[Brannon]

If you think about it, that might explain why everyone on Earth doesn't buy exactly the same things you buy and live exactly the same as how you live.

Re:If you need installments to pay for your phone.

[Anonymous Coward]

but megapixels, and regular pixels, and games, and facebook... if i'm not playing candy crush at optimal efficiency and taking 4k hd pictures, i don't want to live on this planet anymore...

If you need to buy a phone on installments...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're doing it wrong. This is the entire problem with America wrapped into one article. I sounds argue I'd your buying a car on installments you're doing it wrong unless you're buying a 3000 dollar car on installments bevies you literally need transportation and don't have a few 1000 dollars. You shouldn't be buying a 45k car over 5 years if your can't afford it out right but something cheaper.

Apple reuses & recycles iPhones for free.

[Brannon]

Anything still working will be resold into secondary markets--everything else is recycled as best as possible.

Re:Apple reuses & recycles iPhones for free.

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Anything still working will be resold into secondary markets--everything else is recycled as best as possible.

No true. The vast majority of electronics ends up in landfills because most of it is nowhere near valuable enough to spend the time and money necessary to recycle it. Most of it just gets dumped.

Jihad John Hearts Apple's Tim Cook

[Anonymous Coward]

JJ has a boner the size of Mecca for Cook.

Ha ha

Re:A good example of why Android sucks

[BronsCon]

I financed my Nexus 6 just fine; does your carrier not offer 0% financing and a fair-value trade-in program?

Monty, Monty Python in the Hall, Is That You?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mythbusters done did it.

Re:A good example of why Android sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

my carrier doesn't offer nexus devices at all, you insensitive clod!

He exists... just in stealth mode I guess...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mark Wilson : Slashdot

Re:He exists... just in stealth mode I guess...

[Anonymous Coward]

He's news editor for BetaNews

Re:A good example of why Android sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have your choice of carriers? I weep for you.

That's nice

[rsilvergun]

now maybe if they could make a phone I could use with more than 2 of the 4 major carriers here in the US I'd be interested. If you're gonna gobble $700+ from me I at least want to be able to change carriers at the drop of a hat, but every time I tried with my kid's iPhone there was always some little feature of this or frequency of that that prevented me from doing so.

brilliant

[Smiddi]

What an easy way for Apple to jack up device prices. Plus they can enter the "credit" market.

Oh Look!

[dimko]

Someone realised that their product will not sell like hot pancakes any more and offers discounts in a way you can't really say it's a discount!

Wrong math

[Anonymous Coward]

Your math is either wrong or unexplained. Why would you take ratios when computing the gain? gain is an absolute amount of dollars

desperate

[sociocapitalist]

Subscriptions were a way for people to pay for phones monthly but such subscriptions are dead for most people (at least here in France where I pay 10 euros a month for 20G of 4G and unlimited calls/sms/mms) which means that Apple needs to find a new way to get people to be able to afford their phones.

In this way apple can continue to charge ridiculous prices by allowing people who can't afford the phone outright (or who go into brain freeze when presented with the full price) to spend more than they should on something that they don't actually need to spend so much on.