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Australia's Major Parties Vote Against Encryption In Wake of Apple FBI Case (delimiter.com.au)
daria42 writes: If you're counting on Apple to keep your digital information safe, you may want to think again ... at least if you live in Australia. Yesterday the country's two major political parties — Labor and the Coalition — voted down a motion in Federal Parliament calling for strong encryption to be supported in the wake of the FBI's demands that Apple unlock iOS. It appears that implementing comprehensive telephone and email retention in Australia may not have been the end of demands by law enforcement in the country.
Congratulations Australia, you're fucked.
A big part of the issue is that voters demand 'total security' from their governments - Citizens expect to be wrapped in a big, warm security blanket. You can't have total security and total liberty, so the governments dispense with liberty. Voters don't mind because hey, their kids are 'safe.'
You demanded security in place of liberty
Now you accept vulnerability in place of security
And you'll never get the liberty you paid for all this back.
At least stupidity doesn't skip continents.
This is interesting. I live in Australia and I have barely even heard about this vote. It's been a "non-issue" in the news, here. There has been minor coverage of the FBI issue with Apple but extremely minor. You'll note the link in the article, "delimiter" is hardly a mainstream news outlet. The main news outlets here (abc.net.au, etc.) haven't even got this on their front page (at the time of this post).
So basically, both sides of government have managed to keep it pretty much below the radar.
I'm not saying it's totally out of the news (I heard it in a news bulletin that lastest about 4 seconds) but the media is not running with this as an issue. So Joe Public will never care because he's never going to even know he should care.
How do we protect ourselves from a wicked majority?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
You should re-name your country to Murdochville. His declared 'war against labor' (and lions share of the news media) is the reason why Australian politics looks the way it does in 2016.
This has been done so quiet and stealthy. What an embarrassing day to live here in Australia in regards to IT privacy.
A greens senator attempts to grandstand off the back of the FBI vs Apple story in the US to put forward a nothing puff piece that doesn't have any legislation or thought behind it and rather surprisingly the parties in power look at him and so oh go fuck off and waste someone else's time. If they hadn't then this non existent idea would have gone to the house of reps and they would have said "what the hell is this? There is nothing here to vote on, no legislation, no laws, nothing. Why am I looking at this?"
There was absolutely no way this was going to be passed by the senate and should be seen for the political crap that it is.
Note that this isn't an endorsement of mandatory data retention, which I oppose, or support for the FBI over apple. I just abhor political stunts like this that are then held up to mean something when they don't.
The motion called upon the Senate to note that strong digital encryption protects the personal and financial information of millions of people; that encryption is an important tool to prevent identity theft and other crime; that encryption ensures that public interest whistleblowers, journalists and other civil society actors can conduct their activities more securely; and that the Government, through services such as Medicare and Centrelink, and digital platforms such as myGov, depends on encryption to keep client information safe.
The motion also called upon the Senate to note that any decrease in public trust in digital systems and services will present an obstacle to the Government’s agile innovation agenda”.
Secondly, it called upon the Federal Government to “support the continued development and use of strong encryption technologies; resist any push from other governments to weaken encryption on personal devices; and work with law enforcement to develop alternative avenues to obtain information through warrants and targeted surveillance that does not put every Australian at greater risk of identity theft.”
It called on the senate to "support" and "note". Sounds like it was a largely pointless bill in the first place. Not that both major parties wouldn't sell out their voters for a dollar if it was on the table, but whether this particular bill passed or didn't will mean precisely squat to anyone, ever.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
You didn't hear about it because it is a non-issue, not because of people not being interested, but because anything put forward by the greens or the independents in the senate is a non-issue. It's not even about the major parties keeping this below the radar, this is about as news worthy as a greens senator saying "From now on all t-shirts must be blue" and having that voted down.
This is solely and purely a political stunt by the greens to try and get some air time in the run up to the election later this year.
Don't forget the man in a bunch of sheet metal.
I have not only been to Australia, I've gotten drunk and mumbled along (with hearty chorus singing) a song about a dude who stole a sheep. He drowned and now his ghost haunts the area. Oh, it gets better. I swear, I must have heard 50 variations of the song. I like the area and whatnot but I could not possibly live there.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Poor article. They did not vote against strong encryption, they voted against a ridiculous motion that would have foisted costs on the government for no apparent reason. The government already has a body that ensures agencies etc use strong encryption(ASD). This was just a moronic greens party motion looking for publicity.
Why would a spur of the moment motion that has zero substance or effect regardless of whether it passes or not hold any news value whatsoever. The truly sad thing is somehow something like this actually made it here, sad indictment on this site really.
It's a bloke who stole a sheep, note a dude. Get it right at least!
Valid point. Now... Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me?
I get that people like to make up words and call them cultural differences but that song's really keen on taking it to a whole new level. Well, a whole old level - it's kind of old, as I recall. However, the trend seems to be be ongoing.
I ended up visiting a small town out off Prince's Highway. It was Cann River and fun. I went back a second time (there was a lady friend there) and stayed for a couple of weeks and then we rented a "Ute" and drove all the way to the tip of the continent. I want to say it was in a national park? Buggered if I remember. I might have been a little drunk at the time. I remember hearing something about telegraph poles and looking at a bunch of animals including at least one snake that was deadly. We had a good time driving up. We only had four spares so it was kind of interesting but I'd rented a satellite phone for the trip.
Alas, I can not reside in Australia. I just can't do it. She can't leave her parents. She just can't do it. They don't want to move. I don't blame them, I guess. I find the idea of life in Australia to be unacceptable. So, we reached an impasse and our time together was shorter than it might have been. She was pretty cute, so there's that. She's not cute enough to make me change my mind.
Not long after our last parting, she got her ass kicked by a magpie. Seriously, it straight up kicked her ass. She ended up getting stitches and it messed up her face for a little while. We've sort of lost contact but the last time she sent a picture, she'd returned to her formerly cute self in short and good order. Still, I was amused by the ass-kicking handed down by the bird. It seems even the birds are out to kill you in Australia.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Butcher birds and plovers do more damage but less likely to attack unless you get very close to their young ones. Cassowaries have killed but are very rare.
Apple is a purveyor of proprietary software, you cannot audit the software in the first place. Why take Apple's word? Just because they say their products are secure does not mean that it is. They goof up a lot already (icloud). Whose to say they won't goof up again? Further, backroom deals are made between government and megacorps all the time. Apple has enough precedent to show that they are not interested in the well being of society, rather turning a profit is their priority. They have such a market share that that they do as they please and people will buy their products anyway. It would be silly to trust their devices in the first place.
And they expect me to tackle that sort of shit without a firearm if I move there! Ha! It's a trap. It's even a giant island so there's no getting away from it.
Actually, I really do like it there - for the most part. The government would drive me batty but my own government does that just fine. I have an *extensive* collection of firearms. They'd think it was an invasion or something if I tried to move there with all of them. I don't even *know* how many I own. It's a crazy, crazy number and no, I'm not some sort of conspiratorial nutjob who belongs to a militia and wants to overthrow anything. I just like history, mechanical devices, and things that go boom. I'm not willing to give that up, nor to give up my role as protector of history, in order to move to Australia. I've got firearms that go back to the 18th century. I don't want to give that up. Hell, I don't even normally walk around armed. Even if I am armed, it's seldom loaded.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Did anyone expect anything different from the honorary 51st state of America?
I mean have the Australian government ever disagreed or stood up to the USA? If the world stage were like a school then the USA would be a bunch of arsehole bullying jocks and Australia would be a little nerdy kid doing whatever they tell them to in hope that they may get recognition.
As much as I love watching Master Chef Australia, This is why I couldn't move there.
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
If any government can't protect your information then it has failed you.
If you time it right, you can duck and punch a magpie when it attempts to dive-bomb you. I've pulled this off a few times, and in each case the magpie in question has remembered me from then on and not tried to attack me again (they still attacked other people). They aren't particularly quiet in a dive, so if you're actually listening you can hear them on the way down. Most people just don't have any situational awareness.
I've got wild emus on the run, too. You can also scare off most Australian snakes, including the infamous eastern brown snake. The Australian animals you really don't want to fuck with are the eastern grey kangaroo, Sydney funnelweb spider, blue-ringed octopus and saltwater stonefish.
Yes of course and if only Labor were able to vote to protect us, like they did with supporting the TPP, supporting internet monitoring of all citizens... No, both the major parties are for morons to vote for. Even if you dislike some of the Greens policies, like I do, you really should be voting for them if you have a pinch of intelligence. They are the only party able to help, they did an amazing job when Labor was in power and had to deal with them, the minor parties also did alright in saving us from the doom of Abbott and his 18th century views BUT with the recent changes we will no longer have minor parties get seats from 0.005% of votes (which is a good thing imo) so the only sensible thing is to vote Greens this fed election and have Labor second last and Liberals last.
I made it a point to try to avoid any and all animals and most of the plants. I'm not even afraid of normal animals. I just know that I don't know enough about Australia's flora and fauna to go randomly screwing with it. That's how you get hurt. We put most everything in the tent at night, just to make sure that nothing crawled in it and tried to kill me in the morning.
I'm not going in the water. I'm not going into the "bush" by myself. I just don't know enough and, well, I'd hate to kill the wrong thing. It'd be bad form to get frightened of a koala and beat it to death with a stick. I've since learned that some magpies hold a grudge - they'll attack the same postman every time they see 'em. Why? Because, fuck you - that's why! I saw one video of a postman swinging his bike around trying to fend off a magpie. It's apparently a ritual and happens for a period of time every year and it's the same one that's been trying to kick his ass for years now.
I will point out that a group of crows is called a murder. I have no idea what a group of magpies are. I'm not a small man and I spent 8 years in the Marines. I can hold my own. I'm pretty sure an emu can kick my ass. I'm damned sure of it. I've SEEN an emu. The kangaroo you mention? Yeah... I'm not gonna touch that either. I'm not even gonna go investigate it closely. I don't even know which one that is! (I'm guessing it's the big gray ones - I've seen those, they're bigger in real life than they are on television.) It doesn't matter. I'm not going to touch *any* of them - or get within kicking distance. Hell, I might not even get out of the "Ute."
If you've got to time it right to duck and punch a magpie to get to work, I'm gonna carry a stick. I have no idea how anyone could live in that environment and NOT be aware of the environment. Well, I suspect alcohol helps.
In all seriousness, I had a great time. Great country, great people, and beautiful (and unusual) scenery. I'm told that I've seen more of Oz than most citizens ever will. That's something to appreciate and it's very nice there. As I mentioned below, I later got an invite to live there - extended to me because I'd sold my business and, presumably, they found my snail mail address somewhere. I'm guessing I'd signed up for something because they were aware of my liking municipal bonds. I did not actually ask where they got my contact information from but they were legit.
It's a beautiful country with a neat history. Some bloke actually stomped all over the place, after escaping from a penal colony, and lived with the Aboriginals. He had an interesting tale to tell. The Aboriginal folks have a bunch of neat history and beliefs but I'm half convinced they're just pulling your leg to screw with you. I've seen 'em point to some of their old art and point out a "crocodile." Yeah, it looked more like a turtle crossed with duck.
I think they're just screwing with you - and it serves Oz right. If it were me, I'd call that picture something different every time someone asked. The lady then pointed to a picture of an extremely elongated stick figure and said that was one of her ancestors and she could tell because it looked just like her. She was old, plump, and short. Yeah, they're screwing with you. I bet they just made up the didgeridoo (spelling?) as an experiment to see how many people they could sucker into buying a log. It turns out, quite a few. Yes, yes I *do* own my Official Tourist Hipster Log. It was all too easy, they had shipping right there from the store... *sighs*
Beautiful country, beautiful people. Fantastic history.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Oh the Aborigines definitely have been known to screw with white people. There's a place in Victoria called Wendouree, which comes from the local Aboriginal for "piss off" (as in an impolite way to tell someone to go away). They asked a local Aboriginal woman what the name of the swamp was, and that's what she said. There are other cases where people have asked the local Aborigines what something should be called and they've given an ironic or less-than-flattering name that's been adopted because the people asking don't know enough about the language to know the joke's on them.
There was no debate. None. What so ever. A minor party figure got up and went on a rant and then said "I call upon you to vote on my rant".
The independents also voted for it so that they wouldn't be seen to be part of the major parties.
None of what you have said I disagree with, but it is also not relevant to what occurred.
I enjoy our relatively safe streets, cinemas and schools in Australia. That said, I kind of like the fact that Americans do have guns, kind of good knowing if push came to shove, the citizens their could keep the bastards honest!
https://youtu.be/bg2YX0i3WMU
I'm somewhat out of the loop on this whole thing. We've got a few major countries trying to ban encryption. So does this mean their schools will also stop teaching math? And does this also mean that medical records, banking information, and account passwords/data will all be stored in plain text? I've never really been too concerned about foreign data policies, but if my sensitive data is going to be stored in plain text, I'm going to be extra cautious as to what I register to, and where I go. I honestly don't understand how anybody could think outlawing encryption is a good thing - especially since "bad guys" aren't in the business of following lawes. While everybody following the legal system will be exposed, the "bad guys" will be extra hidden while they continue breaking laws by using encryption.
No. I learned how to fire a rifle at seven. I also learned a lot more about gun safety than the NRA preaches around then and was probably a better shot than most of the 2nd amendment weirdos by the age of ten.
A co-worker made a "Brown Bess" replica with a one inch bore, and it takes cartridges instead of muzzle loading. It's legal.
With the noise they make at night in mating season it's normal to get frightened by a koala :)
With the claws they have it's even a good idea. There is no way I am going to touch a wild koala considering how easy it is to find them in the daytime by just looking for the trees covered in scratches.
Keeping eye contact works or waving your hands above your head until you are a long way from their nest. Normally they give you a warning swoop first and you hear a click above your head unless kids have been throwing stones at them or something - then it's the job of the poor male magpie to drive off the scary intruders by drawing blood. The more of a threat you look like the more chance you'll get dived on, which sucks if kids have been stirring them up making every human a target (instead of cyclists etc).
If people have been feeding the magpies and nobody has been picking on them the magpies don't dive on people but still tend to go after dogs.
Encryption is a very basic foundation technology that is required to run a successful business. It's not the tech industries fault that Neanderthals continue to run law enforcement and politics in Australia, however the jobs will leave.
Oh look Apple fanboys with mod points.
Hold it right there. How could someone possibly ever formulate such a strategy?
Real-life news that a third party (e.g. Apple) is going to be coerced into giving you up, shouldn't have an effect on anything, because you already asked yourself, "what if?"
C'mon, every one of us already knows there is only one party in the universe who can protect your data: you.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
In the U.S. every phone call and email is already monitored by the government. What's the point in encrypting the phone if the government already has access to all information it sends or receives? Are they looking for photos or files created on the mobile device? It seems like there's no point to locking down the device.
I made it a point to try to avoid any and all animals and most of the plants. I'm not even afraid of normal animals. I just know that I don't know enough about Australia's flora and fauna to go randomly screwing with it. That's how you get hurt. We put most everything in the tent at night, just to make sure that nothing crawled in it and tried to kill me in the morning.
From what I know about Australia, everything is more deadly than everything else. In fact, they have a Trap Door Spider that is SO venomous that Steve Irwin (the Crocodile Hunter) who was Austrailian of course, said it was literally the ONLY thing he was truly scared of. And that's saying something!
Yes, Gillard was for the TPP, but the carbon tax is the main reason why the Murdoch empire came out against Labor. The oligarchs are very picky these days: They want total loyalty to their version of capitalism on all the issues.
Highest incidence of alcohol related brain shrinkage in the World, in addition "abo hunting" went on right up to the early 60's.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I can hardly believe, but am willing to stand corrected, that such a large majority of Australians are actually against strong encryption to protect themselves from snooping by, among others, their own government. Is this a sign of a messed-up electoral system (first past the post or first past the post plus)? Or do these governments want to grant themselves these abilities, abusing the democratic process?
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
Snakes and so on - but no lions, tigers or bears so other places are more dangerous. There are crocs but normally only where you expect them and only in the relatively depopulated north of Australia. It's very rare for a croc to walk down the main street of a town and it makes the papers when it does. Both times I heard of in the last decade or so were during floods and the crocs decided to get well above the flood level.
The Australian Government also isn't trying to ban strong encryption or mandate backdoors. They simply don't care and this has no impact on Australians. We still use strong encryption freely and without government interference.
A minor part, the Greens, put up a motion that is rejected, as practically everything they offer up is... This isn't news. It is not unusual for a government to only support their own legislation, unless it is part of a side deal for minor party support. It gives the issue a bit of publicity which is all the Greens were really after and might force government politicians to take a position on strong encryption, if the media take the bait.