Slashdot Mirror
Ted Cruz Proposes Reviving SDI To Counter N. Korean Nuclear Threat (blastingnews.com)
MarkWhittington writes: One of the more substantive issues that was discussed during the Republican presidential debate in Detroit concerned the latest threat to come out of North Korea. That country's mad, bad, and dangerous to know leader Kim Jong-Un has ordered his nuclear arsenal prepared and is firing missiles in the vicinity of Japan. The United States and South Korea have started military maneuvers, partly as a result of North Korea's actions. Discussions on deploying the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system in South Korea have also become urgent. Sen Ted Cruz, R-Texas would go one step further. He proposed reviving the idea of space-based missile defenses that were part of the Reagan-era Strategic Defense Initiative.
Spending a bunch of money and making it look like we are making great progress in missile defense so that NK bankrupts itself trying to counter the counter measures? Aren't they already basically bankrupt?
Can't wait till 2016 when two power hungry children are comparing their dongs and members for world domination.
Untenable nuclear war strategies yield, as a byproduct, incredible technology with legitimate (and much more tenable) civilian use. I feel like our space and lazer technology has hit a rut, and something ludicrous like SDI could give it a much-needed jolt in the arm.
>> Reagan-era Strategic Defense Initiative
Why not? The Star Wars movies no longer suck, so the populace is ready to digest the sequel. Personally, I can't wait for green 45-degree lasers travelling a bit under the speed of light.
Personally, I'm uncomfortable with the possibility that we could have the Zodiac Killer with his finger on the nuclear trigger. But that's just me.
And according to this news report, he also ate his own fucking booger on national TV.
http://www.inquisitr.com/28530...
You are welcome on my lawn.
our thermometer is broken? cease fire stand down,, in the moms we trust...
Meanwhile, more and more unstable third world dictatorships and Islamic theocracies are either on the path to developing or already having nuclear weapons.
I support missile defense because I trust American engineers far more than third world lunatics.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
Seems like the ideal weapon to use against DPRK launch targets. Enough destructive power and penetrating ability to use against primary launch sites or bunkers, yet almost undetectable enough against a country like DPRK that you might even get away with plausible deniability and blame target destruction on a mishap.
This actually makes a bit more sense than it did in the 1980s. The technology has improved but more importantly this will be only defending against a small number of missiles. One of the big issues was that it wasn't feasible to scale up a system that could defend against a massive number of advanced missiles with good countermeasures and decoys from the USSR or China. But this would only need to defend against a very small number of missiles without sophisticated countermeasures. Probably not worth the cost but it at least makes more sense than it did in the 1980s.
I'm here all week :-)
Typical slashdotter -
Today:
Ohohoho - Cruz so funny with his backwater thinking and trying to build advanced defense technologies in space which is nothing more than a wet dream. He ate boogers too... I so smart.
Yesterday:
WHY R THERE NO STEM JOBS?!?! WHY NOT GOVERNMENT MAKE STEM JOBS?!? BERNIE SANDERS HELP ME MAK STEM JOBS!!!
Morons.
A small government conservative proposing pork barrel politics to counter a non-realistic threat in order to seem like he is the big man on the international stage solely for the purpose of getting elected.
As has been mentioned a lot of times before Kim thrives on crazy threats, and China needs a relatively stable NK (that doesn't actually carry out stupid shit) in order to maintain a buffer.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
What about just ending sanctions against North Korea?
Let's revive a weapons system viewed by the rest of the world as an attempt to immunize one of the only nuclear powers to refuse to agree to a non first strike treaty from the deterrent effect of mutually assured destruction. Nobody would view that as a design to give the United States the ability to launch a pre-emptive nuclear attack while immunizing them from retaliation. This can only de-escalate nuclear tensions.
All Cruz proposes to do is admit that the research never really stopped, and take a look at deploying what we have. It would certainly be prudent to do SOMETHING to defend against rogue states (Iran, NK).
When everyone knows the actual purpose of SDI (to redistribute wealth by taxing you and giving it to expensive contractors who just happen to be someone-in-government's-brother) it's kind of hard to muster up the energy to go for the zinger. *sigh* "A Subsidy-launched Cruz Missile?" Lame. I want to say I tried, but I didn't.
I think the big thing the Fear Party needs to worry about, is becoming too transparent and obvious. Cruz is basically telling Fear Party voters, "Since I know you're a coward, that gives me a way to get you to spend more money." The Bleeding Heart Party has that kind of transparency too but nobody gets insulted by being called a bleeding heart, so it doesn't work against them quite as badly.
Either way, though, I am tired of these basically non-political parties. We need to get the Libertarians and Socialists more into the limelight so somebody out there will give enough of a fuck to bother voting in November. Right now, it looks like conservatives and liberals might not have anyone on their ballots to vote for, and it's not like people are going to write in.
It would be wise to restart the program given the aggression to the DPRK, China, and Russia. Denying them a first strike capability opens up options.
The more we invest in defending against a first strike the more we chip away at MAD... Be careful what you wish for.
The threat is against South Korea and US forces in Japan. Seems like launch phase rather than ballistic phase interception would be best. Star wars wouldn't work. Need Navy or Air Force systems.
When China says go ahead, that's a great idea to militarize space, and we might just build one ourselves. Thanks for opening the door Ted.
I know the GOP is the party of pimping out Zombie Reagan, and they're favorite past-time is cherry picking things about the man to back up what they want to do now, but reviving Star Wars? Really? They're not even trying to pretend they didn't jump the shark now.
A tiny smart bomb, aimed at the Supreme Commander's location could save the lives and well-being of countless deprived citizens of N. Korea. It might be the greatest humanitarian action of this century. It would cost almost nothing to accomplish. Or we could do what we always do and kill citizens and soldiers by the thousands while leaving evil kings and dictators to continue their course. Even if our smart bomb missed the little guy it would give him something to think about and an incentive for him to change his attitude.
...omphaloskepsis often...
...because Republican presidential politics has become all about dick size. Heaven forbid they actually address real issues, that affect real Americans, every day. No. They think we'd rather hear about ways to beat down a noisy, but ultimately inconsequential petty dictator.
Cuckoo eggs always on the menu.
We should just build a wall around NK.
And get MX to pay for it.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
How about we get the rest of the world to agree to begin to deorbit their old sats onto Pyongyang instead of a parking orbit or into the ocean.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
Oh noes! North Korea is building missiles to launch one at us! Yeah, don't be stupid. Missiles are costly and take a ramp up to deploy over years and many tests. There is no threat from North Korea or any other developing nation concerning missiles that won't be seen years in advance.
The actual threat is not missiles, but nuclear weapons themselves. Smuggled in in a shipping container or in the boot of a car. You think it is any accident that people getting radiation treatment for cancer are, fact, setting off radiation detectors as they drive down highways and then getting stopped and searched? The USA is already ahead of the real threat, smuggled warheads, talk of North Korea or other fanatics building missiles just makes good TV for the masses.
Shh.
So, has Senator Cruz not heard of the Missile Defense Agency (MDA)? Still alive and kicking, although they do have their own problems. However, one very big reason for MDA and its presence in Alaska is our good buddies in North Korea.
since we'd have to get past the giant sun beam focusing parasol satellite that NK has in orbit. does homeland security screen for asians with diamonds embedded in them yet?
Shut up. If you're opposed to welfare, you hate poor people.
The system would have to track and successfully destroy 100% of all ballistic missiles, their decoy warheads and their real warheads. It has to work perfectly the first time it is used. And the reason for the 100% is that a single H bomb exploding over NYC would kill 12 million people. 99% of 3000+ warheads leaves 30 1Megaton H bombs exploding over the USA. The casualties would be about 150 million dead.
does not have the ability to deliver its atomic bombs to the USA. They are bluffing. There is a good chance they don't even have atomic weapons.
The space based over the horizon electronic warfare system was perfected and has been in use for some time. They can scan any objects and blow them up or remotely control them using cybernetic warfare.
Ted Cruz is a nut sack out of touch retard.
Better than SDI capabilities are already deployed. DrRobertDuncan .com
Unfortunately it's quite the opposite. As a person who came from extreme poverty, as well as being a student of Economics and Philosophy, I am not blind to the game.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
when there is any chance of they becoming 'collateral' damage due to their enterprises in foreign lands!
Actually, China is the key to this particular issue - North Korea playing w/ nukes. While I'm not against space based missile programs in principle, I'm not convinced that it's the necessary solution for this particular case.
I agree w/ Charles Krauthammer on the solution to this one. What do you do when you have such a weak hand? Play your trump. The US trump vis a vis China is JAPAN. The Chinese are still obsessed w/ their centuries old domination of the region, and their old enemies. Their main enemy in their mind is Japan. Nothing would make them take notice more than Japan suddenly reasserting its power.
Here is what the proposed solution is. Since WWII, Japan was forcibly de-militarized, and it's not a nuclear power. One thing that the US could do is get together w/ Japan and re-define that treaty, and DROP the requirement that Japan be de-militarized. Nothing would get Beijing's attention more than Japan being re-asserted as a military competitor to China - the way it was in the 1930s. They have their memories of Nanjing, and such a move would really cause a meltdown in Beijing.
So if THAT is done, China will stop at nothing - would even march into North Korea and dethrone Kim to get the US to stop re-arming Japan. But that won't likely be necessary - North Korea survives purely b'cos of China. China doesn't want a unified Korea - that would potentially give South Korea a work force even cheaper than what China can provide. Which is why they tolerate, if not encourage, every one of Kim's antics. But if they suddenly saw the re-emergence of Japan, that would cause a major panic in Beijing, and they'd do everything they could to rein in Pyongyang
They still can't hit a target most of the time, and that's when they *know* when and where the launch will be, and they put a radio tracking beacon on the missile to be hit.
This time, can we please use the correct name - it's Battlestar America, not Star Wars. (Yes, there was an episode of the original Battlebarf where they found a world with two superpowers, and when they pushed The Button, the Galactica zapped all 30,000 nuclear missles....)
Maybe Ted Cruz could lead a rag-tag band of idiots looking for where they came from.... I'd say the seventh planet in the solar system would be about right.
mark
I forgot the sarcasm tags. I'm totally on your side.
Fuck'em.
North Korea has been a giant pustule on the butt of the Earth. Its people are ruined and will never be useful in a work force. So let's do the right thing: a full first strike: "rods from god" + B-52-launched cruise missiles to shut down their 0-hour strike capability and then follow-up as needed with our old nukes (we need to get rid of them anyway).
Let China do clean-up.
Friedman is an idiot.
You know why the Great Recession wasn't the Second Great Depression, even though that actual crash was much worse?
Because of all those public assistance programs kept money flowing in the economy.
That's what safety net programs do: they arrest a crashing economy, slowing its fall, and reducing its impact.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
Pongyang will be ashes even under Obama if Kim launches a nuke.
Friedman is an idiot.
You know why the Great Recession wasn't the Second Great Depression, even though that actual crash was much worse?
Because of all those public assistance programs kept money flowing in the economy.
That's what safety net programs do: they arrest a crashing economy, slowing its fall, and reducing its impact.
Except the government interface is what led to that recession
From your sources:
In FY 2013, we:
- Paid over $850 billion to almost 65 million beneficiaries;
So that's where your 850 billion dollar figure comes from.
Only problem is, your confirmation bias prevented you from actually reading that document.
You know... like actually looking for understanding (what those numbers actually mean) instead of just fishing for BigMcHuge numbers to lean your bias on.
Or you would have noticed this bit:
Old-Age and Survivors Insurance
Created in 1935, the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) program provides retirement and survivors benefits to qualified workers and their families.
In FY 2015, we will pay about $744 billion in OASI benefits to approximately 49 million beneficiaries per month, including 89 percent of the population aged 65 and over.
Disability Insurance
Established in 1956, the Disability Insurance (DI) program provides benefits for workers with disabilities and their families.
In FY 2015, we will pay about $147 billion in DI benefits to approximately 11 million workers with disabilities and their family members per month.
Supplemental Security Income
Established in 1972, the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program provides financial support to adults and children with disabilities and adults who are aged or blind, and have limited income and resources.
In FY 2015, we will pay about $60 billion in Federal benefits and State supplementary payments to approximately 8.5 million recipients per month.
OASI and DI trust funds are collected from payroll taxes.
It's insurance that working stiffs pay for themselves and their families.
Not "public assistance". Or welfare.
That's that last bit - SSI. Paid out to eligible "adults and children with disabilities and adults who are aged or blind, and have limited income and resources".
SSA is NOT "public assistance". Or welfare as some like to call it.
But I'm sure you already know that - as you've listed both, separately. From that "better website".
Where only SSI is listed under "welfare".
Now, if you'd bother to look up the SSA budget overview for 2013 (since that is what you're basing your $850 billion numbers on) you'd notice that those same programs were projected as follows:
- about $672 billion in OASI benefits,
- about $143 billion in DI benefits and,
- about $58 billion in Federal and State Supplementation benefits.
"About" $873 billion projected, all together.
I.e. Those $850 billion SSA paid out was mostly INSURANCE. Not "public assistance".
Both you and the GP are off by orders of magnitude cause you don't understand the numbers you're quoting.
Because bias.
But the bit I find the most hilarious is how you've looked at that chart where defense spending is just a notch or two under pensions and came up with that 62% nonsense out of your ass.
Yet at the same time it just doesn't reach from that same source, to your mind, that pensioners don't actually drive around in tanks, maintain bases in foreign countries, stockpile ICBMs in their back yard, fly jets...
You know... express that overwhelming opulence in some way which would rival the feed and care of the world's largest military force.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
All we need to do is park one SSBN off North Korea and let North Korea know
via diplomatic channels that they can expect to become a smoking crater at
the first sign of launch. There is no new expenditure required for such a show
of force.
I'm so fucking sick of idiots like Reagan and Cruz I could puke. These fucktards
couldn't even run a used car lot well, let alone a country.
Look at the advances we've made in active missile intercepts. The project never stopped.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
It seems to me a ground-based system located on or near Hawaii would be cheaper and possibly more effective because it's easier to test & maintain, and can use volume to compensate for accuracy difficulties.
Table-ized A.I.
The proposed technology behind SDI never worked and in the past 30 years, some of the SDI proponents have even admitted it never worked. I don't mean in the "we just didn't try hard enough" way, I mean in the "it could not work, ever, no matter how much time, energy and money we threw at it" way.
X-Ray pumped lasers were the poster boy for this problem. They wanted to create a laser system that had a nuclear weapon in the center. The nuclear explosion creates X-Rays and that was supposed to power the laser. The problem? You've got nanoseconds until the nuclear blast destroys the laser itself. There isn't enough time to do anything meaningful in this window and the entire design means it is a one-shot weapon at best.
IIRC there was only one solitary SDI weapons proposal that had even a ghost of a chance of working. The rest were all science fiction fantasies, used to scare the Soviets and as cover for political pork at home.
Ted Cruz doesn't realize that SDI never really went away. The entire thing has been operational for decades except for the so-called "space-based" laser and missile platforms.
Kriston
The war will pay for itself
and
Honest, I won't shoot my load on your face.
I love when some amateur internet "economist" dismisses a great economist as an idiot and, as proof, holds up public assistance programs as if they are net wealth creators.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
While I don't have any attachment to the particular structuring of the current US welfare schemes, the general idea of giving money to the poor seems like a good idea. Either way the poor need food, shelter, and medical attention. You can either leave them to die, which results in turning them in to beggars and thieves which is good for no one or have some sort of welfare.
THis is about nothing but throwing money at his friends.
Right now, the DOD is focused on railguns and lasers. These will start being deployed over the next couple of years. The naval railgun alone has the ability to fire over 100 miles into the air. And army's new changes to the M1 will allow it to carry a railgun that will shoot over 60 miles into the air. USAF is working on putting lasers into its aircrafts that can shoot down missiles of all sorts.
And yet, cruz wants to give MASSIVE tax breaks to his friends, while increasing the spending on projects that are worthless, but also to his friends.
And ppl wonder why Trump is looking so good in the GOP.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Yeah, Ted, that would be a great idea.. if SDI actually worked. All tests done demonstrated that it didn't work reliably at stopping missiles. Republicans: still offering imaginary solutions to real problems. What do you expect from people that still think the earth is only 6000 years old?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
All NK has to do is put men in it's rockets and call them peaceful astronauts. Who just happen to take a nuclear lunch box with them.
There are so many reasons why SDI can't give 100% protection and even one failure would be economically devastating.
Better to cure the disease than just treat the symptoms.
And for you to do yours. Hint: the world isn't black and white. There are grays too. If you view any issue either positively or negatively you don't understand it at all. An utopia isn't reality as anybody with a sense and ability to see, hear, read what people think and do.
Many people are helped to move from a piss-poor environment to a better one. Not becoming rich (which seems to be what you think is important given the emphasis on wealth distribution?) but being able to eat better, study better and work better. Is that worth nothing? Is that hindering them from improving further to the riches you think are essential? Nope. But the real reasons poor people stay poor are complex socially and politically - this space is limited.
Some people have zero ambition and welfare will not help them, in some cases it can even stop them making the effort otherwise necessary to improve their lives. Those are those that stay poor and will always stay poor. Welfare have nothing to do with it, ambition is the key. Reduce/remove welfare and they will move out into the streets begging for their next meal instead.
And I like someone that thinks economics is something one can be great at. The majority of economic theory isn't connected to reality and that doesn't change whether their cheerleaders are left wing or right wing (or something in between).
Milton Friedman was a fraud
https://unlearningeconomics.wordpress.com/2012/11/27/milton-friedmans-distortions/
His bull is still taught in business school and it leads to poor ethics, destruction of the middle class and outsourcing of critical infrastructure
So your means of undermining someone is to say that the field that they are good at doesn't exist. Despite all evidence to the contrary.
Noted.
"interface"? You are too stupid to have an opinion.
What a fuctard.
Specifically, he worked with the group tasked with evaluating the feasibility of the project. They found it to be completely unrealistic. Reagan went ahead a decided to do it anyway and now it's a political thing. They tried everything, hydrofluoric-acid lasers mounted on 747s, lasers on satellites, intelligent pebbles. Didn't work.
The reality is MIRV, post-boost phase evasive maneuvers, and decoys are all fairly trivial to implement. Even now, these tests you see with 30-60% success rates assume the launch site and trajectory are known before hand.
Reagan was a major disaster! SDI was one of the biggest federal money wasters of all time. Who in their right mind is so ridiculously stupid to propose reviving SDI again? Oh yes, Republican tea party presidential candidates who run on a platform that wants to cut down federal spending. Only shows how moronic Cruz and his tea baggers are. Other than blocking everything (including their own proposals) and shutting down the government they have not accomplished anything. I hope these losers get voted out of office again.
It's not as if Strategic Defense needs to be "revived"; they've made great progress in the last dozen years or so. And frankly, SDI seems especially well designed to counter the NORK threat. The Norks have ... "few" may be too generous... only a few rockets, they may or may not be able to loft their somewhat primitive nuclear weapons with them, and if they tried to aim one at a city, their chances of actually hitting THAT city are somewhat iffy.
But yes, SDI needs to be put back on the front burner, and we need to begin actually deploying it. A launching site in South Korea and a couple in Japan would seem to be sufficient to counter the NORK threat.
The big SDI debate back in the 1980s and early '90s was that the Soviets had SO MANY missiles, we couldn't hope to intercept them ALL, so it was better not to try. This notion was childishly brain-dead even then; nuclear missiles against hardened silos aren't a guaranteed kill, so you'd launch three missiles against each target. Intercept ONE of the three, and the probability of kill goes down a LOT, and would give the Soviet planners a reason to think that a first disarming strike might not be entirely successful. SDI + MAD gives any relatively sane warplanner on either side a reason to hold off.
The NORKS are not "relatively sane", and probably aren't even CLOSE to being sane, but even a small SDI deployment would pull their fangs - especially if the US and Japan make it clear to the Chinese and the Russians that even one nuclear launch would invite a massive response and the annihilation of North Korea. The Chinese especially could order Kim to stand down or be deposed.
Of course, the Chinese are doing a lot of their OWN saber-rattling, so it's not as if we can sit back and do nothing. After 24 years of letting our military forces decay, it's going to take some effort to restore the balance.
Trillions of $ to address a non-threat. That's brilliant republicans! Congrats on staying true to form.