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More Devs Now Use OS X Than Linux, Says Survey (9to5mac.com)

An anonymous reader writes from an article on 9to5Mac: Stack Overflow reports that more developers now use OS X than Linux as their primary OS, and that if the trend continues, fewer than half of all developers will be using Windows next year. The site says it carried out "the most comprehensive developer survey ever conducted," with more than 56,000 coders across 173 countries taking part.
The survey also mentioned more were still developing for Android than iOS -- 61.9% versus 47.5%. However, almost a third of developers are using Swift, which was also the second most loved language after Rust.

61 of 532 comments (clear)

  1. in an attempt to explain this to others.... by turkeydance · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i said, Windows is equivalent to the incandescent light bulb. Linux approximates the CFL, and OS X could be the LED.

    1. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 2, Insightful

      i said, Windows is equivalent to the incandescent light bulb. Linux approximates the CFL, and OS X could be the LED.

      Or people using Apple products are just full of themselves and think they can program.

    2. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The summery says OS X which is for desktops and laptops IIRC. iOS is for iShiny.

      The summary also says that it is developers that were surveyed. These are people who do not have to use the operating system for which they are developing. So... iOS is the reason that they use OS X.

    3. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I use a Macbook at work and a Dell with Antergos at home. My linux laptop has less problems working. Bluetooth has never worked and wifi drops constantly on the Mac to the point that I'm having to have the whole thing replaced, because changing the wifi card apparently voids the warranty unless you're a "Genius". The OS is okay but I pretty much only use it for Web browsing and the terminal, the two major portions of my job. The only OS I can't do my job fully with without a lot of add-ons? Windows.

      Honestly though have you ever used linux? You sound like someone who heard about it once in the 90's when, to be fair, linux was not ready for prime time.

    4. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      ...decent GPU, better CPU, more storage, civilized set of ports.

      Apple products only cater to a very small set of use cases whereas PCs accommodate any of those plus plenty of other options. Current Apple products aren't at all interesting beyond the novelty form factors. So the idea that you can't get a similarly equipped PC is "cute".

      The single biggest problem with using a Mac is the (limited) hardware.

      It's really a shame that using MacOS in a VM isn't simpler.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    5. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by slashdice · · Score: 2

      Sure, and you can stick your thumb up your ass and jack off for less than it costs to take a girl out for dinner.

      --
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    6. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by maugle · · Score: 5, Funny

      I doubt it, because both developers I know who own Macbooks have installed Linux on them.

    7. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by terjeber · · Score: 3, Insightful

      or, OSX is the most useful implementation of Unix anywhere and at any time in history, from a users point of view.

      As a developer I was raised on SunOS (before it became Solaris). Unix is in my genes. However, both as a developer and outside of work, I use computers for other things than 'vi' and 'make', or 'emacs' and 'ant' or whatever silly thing you could think of. I use it for my images, for editing 4K video from my camera etc. Since Linux on the Desktop is never going to happen, and actual usable applications for non-development on Linux is never going to happen, using an alternative Unix platform seems reasonable. OSX is what Linux could have been if Thorvalds had ever cared about user interfaces. He doesn't and never will, thereby relegating Linux to the dark basement.

      Until OSX came along the best way to develop was using Windows on the workstation and having an automated build system on Linux somewhere. Why Windows? Because Windows beats Linux every single day for desktop usability. It's leaps and bounds ahead of what Linux dreams of in its most orgasm-inducing dreams. Don't believe me? Try some cross-platform stuff. Eclipse for example. I would rather use Eclipse on Windows while having a root canal rather than suffering actual editing on Linux

      You'd have to be a real masochist today to chose a Linux desktop over an OSX desktop for a Unix development experience.

    8. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by BronsCon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that the summary also says that more people develop for Android than for iOS.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    9. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by s4m7 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You'd have to be a real masochist today to chose a Linux desktop over an OSX desktop for a Unix development experience.

      Never understood the OSX superiority complex. It's almost like you guys are overcompensating for something.

      --
      This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
    10. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by fluffernutter · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wow.. even with the glitches I experience from time to time in my Linux desktop it still doesn't quite match the cheese grater to the testicles I feel when I use OSX. Like seriously, force people to mouse to the top of the screen every time they want to use a menu function?? The 80's are embarrassed they never caught on.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    11. Re: in an attempt to explain this to others.... by fistfullast33l · · Score: 2

      I never pay retail. The 2015 13" MBP is available on eBay for right around $975...and normally retails for $1400. I only buy from shops with a 30 day money back guarantee. Haven't had a problem yet and I've bought 4 for my employees in the last year. They're gently used (scratches on bottom for instance) but who cares?

    12. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      OSX is basically a nice mix between Unix to make developers happy and enterprise software (ie, you can run Office which is almost mandatory for most corporations). Linux is nice too but it lacks a lot of stuff that the enterprise wants, or the developer who doesn't want to waste time micromanaging it.
      The Mac Book Pro, though expensive, is very nice to use. Probably some Apple patents around which is why other PC laptops have really clumsy touch pads.

    13. Re: in an attempt to explain this to others.... by tysonedwards · · Score: 2

      That's like saying "if you remove all people who drink alcohol from the study, we'd have no alcoholics".

      --
      Thirty four characters live here.
    14. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by Harlequin80 · · Score: 2

      How long has it been since you used a linux distro? I've been able to do all of what you describe for at least the last 5 years perfectly seamlessly. Certainly more seamlessly than windows manages it.

      As for breaking your wireless card? WTF? You talk about buying decent hardware but you must have bought the most random chipset to have had that problem in the last decade. Recognising your monitor and using lynx? I don't think I could even drive lynx if I needed to..... and I've been running linux as my primary OS since 2008.

    15. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      Give them time. You remember how long it took to accept a second button on the mouse, don't you?

    16. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that the summary also says that more people develop for Android than for iOS.

      Developing for Android does not mean that you don't use OS X. In fact, if you want to target both iOS and Android then the best solution is a Mac. Yes, you can't write for iOS on other platforms, but that will be a small minority.

    17. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by blindseer · · Score: 2

      I've been accused of Apple fanboi-isms and I'm not sure if I in even my "best" (or "worst", depends on where you stand) Apple fanboi days would be as condescending as you.

      I'm taking a programming course at the local university to update my skills. In this class we are to program a "robot" (it has motors and sensors but it's not much more than an RC toy) to do various tasks. We were offered use of the university computers, but those I cannot take home to work on, or bring our own. The instructor gave instructions on how to setup the IDE on our own computer as well as the programming interface we'd need to program the robot. I chose Linux because that was the path of least resistance for me, even though I also have laptops that run MacOSX, and different variants of Windows.

      My lab partner chose to use Windows and she seemed to be able to do things with greater ease than I in some respects and I with greater ease than her. The IDE was easier to install and run on Linux but the programming interface gave me trouble. She had no trouble programming but the IDE acted a bit "odd" for her. Perhaps I'll try this on one of my Macs to see how it works there but that's time I don't feel like spending right now. Point is that every OS has it's pros and cons.

      I've done development on a number of platforms, mostly for the web, through the years (perhaps I should say "decades" now) and I've found it really comes down to choosing a good editor and getting proficient with it. Unfortunately with my contract work I must use whatever computer I am provided for my job and so I have not had the chance to become really good with any editor but I've seen others do amazing things after years figuring out all kinds of "tricks" and building a library of macros that they've made for themselves or copied from others. It seems you've found what works for you, congratulations... I guess.

      Claiming one operating system, one text editor, or one whatever as an "ultimate" of all time is childish. Grow up. I did some web development and some HDL coding on SunOS way back when. Being as you used to develop on SunOS as well then I suspect that you are likely about the same age as I but age alone does not mean one is mature.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    18. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm a developer. I own a Macbook. It's got a nice box. It brings up a bash shell. I can ssh. I don't need to install linux on it to be doing the same things the same way I would be doing on Linux if I wasn't already logged into a Linux box over the network.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    19. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by terjeber · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For the record, I have used Linux since 1993. I also used Minix back then on my home-grown BBS (you wouldn't know, you are too young). I had a short brush with Macs when I went to business school, but didn't own an OSX machine until I got a Macbook Pro a couple of years back. My personal web stuff is all on Linux on AWS. I am not an Apple fan boi by any stretch of the imagination.

      So, what makes OSX infinitely more usable than Linux? Two things, usability and apps. There are no usable apps for regular stuff for Linux. Seriously. Show me an alternative to Photoshop, for example.

      The sad reality is not that OSX folks have a superiority complex, they quite possibly do, the sad thing is that when you point out that OSX beats Linux on everything, Linux users are sooo insecure they have to lash out. Get over your self, get rid of Linux (on your desktop) and be happier.

    20. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by terjeber · · Score: 2

      I don't think it's inherently superior but it is more user friendly.

      I make my living creating stuff using computers as a tool. I don't need to spend time making the tool work. Therefore the tool being more user friendly means that inherently is superior. Now, if writing code was all I did, the difference between Linux and OSX would be much smaller, but that isn't the case. I edit 4K video from my Panasonic camera for example, which is not something I can do on Linux. I import my photos into Lightroom and adjust them in Capture One, some times I edit in Photosop. This simple cannot be done on a Linux box.

    21. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by Bert64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you develop for iOS then you will almost certainly (or must?) be using OSX to do so...
      If you develop for Android you have a choice of platforms.
      If you develop for both you might as well run OSX because the android tools run just as well on there, plus if you're employed as a developer you can justify an expensive mac over whatever bottom of the barrel junk you'd have got otherwise.

      --
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    22. Re: in an attempt to explain this to others.... by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

      I've bought 4 for my employees in the last year. They're gently used (scratches on bottom for instance) but who cares?

      Where I work, everyone is expected to wear pants.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    23. Re: in an attempt to explain this to others.... by MMC+Monster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've had my Linux Mint box freeze sporadically. I thought it was the OS for the longest time but it happened a couple weeks after I did a clean wipe and reinstall.

      Turned out it was a bad stick of memory. Replaced it and things have been golden.

      Did the GP run a low level memory test lately?

      --
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    24. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by Junta · · Score: 2

      I understand the rational (also someone mentioned more efficient use of screen space as multiple windows share a single menu strip instead of repeating a usually identical menu in each window).

      However, his statement was that he preferred the travel distance of the in-window menu strategy. You can't really respond to a preference with "you are wrong because of some design 'law' says you should like the other way".

      Anytime someone calls 'law' in the highly subjective world of UI design, it frustrates me a tad. Maybe it can be a good guideline, but rarely does anything related to human behavior really deserve to rank as a 'law'.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    25. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by terjeber · · Score: 3, Informative

      I really don't know what people mean when they say that OSX is more user friendly.

      You should consider that a limitation of you ability to understand. Seriously.

      this is much much less efficient and therefore less user friendly

      And this is where your misunderstanding comes from. Here's a clue. User friendly: Allows me to easily digest the XAVC 4K footage from my camera, do basic color correction, cut away the junk, create a presentable end result. That's user friendly. Having multiple options for window managers, being exceedingly configurable to the point of me being able to make it fit my life perfectly when developing Java software - user-unfriendly for 99.999992% of the worlds population.

      If you find more UI elements too distracting to do your work then it is pills you need, not a streamlined OS

      I don't sit around masturbating to my own UI configuration every day. I do work that pays. For me to accomplish this I need to run applications that work. I design and develop software, which includes GUI components that are special made so I need a good vector graphics tool to assist in this. Also, I take pictures and make movies in my spare time, and I also use some of those skills when I develop GUI elements for my applications. In order to do that I need applications. A user friendly OS has those applications. Linux does not, and probably never will.

      How do you get by without applications?

    26. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by MrKaos · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For the record, I have used Linux since 1993. I also used Minix back then on my home-grown BBS (you wouldn't know, you are too young).

      I know what you mean, going beyond tuning a solaris kernel with MAXUSERS or ATT unix, Interactive, coding C with vi on a hp700/44 serial terminal. Pretty much everything is a step up from that.

      I had a short brush with Macs when I went to business school, but didn't own an OSX machine until I got a Macbook Pro a couple of years back. My personal web stuff is all on Linux on AWS. I am not an Apple fan boi by any stretch of the imagination.

      I beleive you. I always though that 68000 mac hardware was better than PCs. Apple made less hardware back then, but they used the same stuff that was on the servers so it was rock solid. I loved it.

      So, what makes OSX infinitely more usable than Linux? Two things, usability and apps. There are no usable apps for regular stuff for Linux. Seriously. Show me an alternative to Photoshop, for example.

      I can't show you an alternative to Photoshop, except GIMP, but I haven't used it for a production so I can't speak to usability, I'm told it's very powerful. What I can speak to is Audio production in Linux is hands down where the innovation is occurring. Sure, Mac maybe more usable, but that's a poweruser issue, not an innovation issue. My observations about many Apple applications is that they let you get to a level of good productivity real fast with a fantastic user experience at the expense of sheilding you from the power of the machine and making innovation less accessible. Sure that lets you be creative, but nothing out of the ordinary.

      The usability paradigm in Linux attracts a different type of user. When I commit to an application I want to own the space and not be limited by the type of commercial imperatives that can alter my investment in learning, in that regard open source software is superior because sometimes the users also contribute to the code base. Obviously this does not exclude them from being a MAC user, that is the power of open source though.

      I think people are too scared to explore because of what the constantly changing Windows environment did to them. Apples brilliance was taking people out of that paradigm, who can fault that move. However Apple also missed out on the significant advances in the Power PC CPU architecture, as IBM received a massive cash inflow of development from Microsoft *and* Sony, so they weren't that smart moving to intel. I'm certain Intel would have been aware of their strategic position though, when making that deal.

      I'm curious about what languages you are developing in though, do you mind sharing?

      The sad reality is not that OSX folks have a superiority complex, they quite possibly do, the sad thing is that when you point out that OSX beats Linux on everything, Linux users are sooo insecure they have to lash out. Get over your self, get rid of Linux (on your desktop) and be happier.

      Wow, I would have said it was the other way around, I am just so damn comfortable in Linux that the UI is almost irrelevant. I have all the platforms in the house, including a powerbook for my wife. I thought that since Apple didn't have to pay for the use of an excellent O.S platform they could focus their effort on the UI - they did great job too, however I'm just not fond of how that UI context works, it's same reason I dumped Unity. Mac is more usable, but I feel limited, like the power of the machine is abstracted away from me. You're probably right but does my preference count? I don't care what others use, however is it ok for me to use Linux because I actually like the way it works and I'm happy with it? I am stupid for not using a MAC to code?

      Please don't take offence, I'm not criticizing devs who use Macs either, I'm actually interested what I can learn about if there are things better than what I do. I'm not convinced that it is a

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    27. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      What is the counterpart on OSX?
      Command-Space.

      The command key is the one with either the "fan" on it and/or the letters 'cmd' on it or if you have an old mac: the Apple key.

      And yes, that feature M$ copied from Mac OS X.

      When I use OSX I have to first activate that window before I can do anything with the menu and then I must mouse to the menu.

      You want to tell us you want to issue a "random" menu command in a "random" window on OS X. But yu never do that on Windows?

      Wow. What is the difference in clicking on a window in Windows to "activate" it versus clicking on a window in Mac Os X? I use 'alt'-tab to switch Apps, and usually only work on laptops anyway.

      Furthermore, the OSX menu has minimized it's entries to only those it thinks I want, but I use the menu usually to learn the most important hot keys so I don't have to use the menu at all.
      That is very unlikely. This is a Windows illness. You are mixing something up.

      --
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    28. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by macs4all · · Score: 2

      i said, Windows is equivalent to the incandescent light bulb. Linux approximates the CFL, and OS X could be the LED.

      Or people using Apple products are just full of themselves and think they can program.

      I have nearly 4 decades of embedded developer experience, and the vast majority of that has been using Apple products.

      And why? Because with one computer, I could have my Dev. Tools, plus an entire Desktop Publishing chain for Documentation, and real MS Office for participating in the rest of the "business" stuff.

      And that was even back in the early 90s. Now the Mac is a even a more obvious choice for most Development work.

    29. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by tsa · · Score: 2

      2016 will be the year of Linux off the desktop! Woot!

      But seriously, I switched to Mac for the same reason as you. I was sick of using crappy open source software for doing simple things in complicated ways. I gladly paid a few euros for some programs that were much much better than their open source equivalent.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    30. Re:in an attempt to explain this to others.... by macs4all · · Score: 2

      Wasn't MacOS supposed to have been "the desktop Unix" 10 or 15 years ago. Wasn't this supposed to have happened already rather than it just happening now?

      OS X (not MacOS) IS "The Destop Unix", and has been so since 2000. That's SIXTEEN YEARS.

      Welcome to the party; sorry your invitation got lost in the mail...

  2. Developers, developers, developers by xtal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    Slowly control is wrested from the beast.

    Computers are tools, I use the best one for the job. OSX is best for most development tasks. x86 is still cheap power.

    The masses are going to use tablets from now on, and that ship has sailed for MS.

    --
    ..don't panic
  3. for some definition of "developer" by ooloorie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For some definition of "developers" that is probably true. In this case, this is "people who use Stackoverflow and self-select in order to respond to survey questions". Their population is heavily biased towards web developers and JavaScript, and 70% are self-taught. So, the needs of most of those people are modest, and their choices tell you little about the quality of a platform. Many of them could probably develop on ChromeOS.

    1. Re:for some definition of "developer" by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      How much of this self-selection is dependent on browsing habits? Are you ever going to get approached to take this survey if you browse the web in paranoid mode? Is this selection methodology going to bias against the paranoid? How would that kind of bias alter the results?

      It would expect it to favor MacOS and disfavor both Windows and Linux.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:for some definition of "developer" by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 2, Insightful

      that, and I bet they aren't really Scottish, either!

      --

      Obliteracy: Words with explosions

    3. Re: for some definition of "developer" by SquirrelCrack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Let the hate flow through you...

      But seriously. I'm not surprised by this at all. Around 75% of the devs I know use macs, from long time Microsoft folk to embedded systems guys. It has fuckall to do with how serious a coder you are and a lot more to do with the fact that OSX is BSD with a pretty face.

    4. Re:for some definition of "developer" by fluffernutter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Also, Stack Overflow surveys are heavily biased towards people who like to dick around and do surveys instead of focusing on work.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    5. Re:for some definition of "developer" by tgv · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Pray tell, what needs to real programmers have, that an OSX machine cannot possibly provide?

      And we all know that real programmers don't need any OS at all. Seymour Cray could toggle a program from the front panel. He didn't need no tabbed Gnome file browser, or any other piece of Linux software that did a half-assed attempt at imitating Windows or OSX.

    6. Re: for some definition of "developer" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Counter anecdote: most of the developers I know use Windows. Windows is the most popular platform and most software is vertical applications running on it. Visual Studio with .NET is great for developing applications, and for cloud Azure is pretty much the easiest and best integrated environment. On the embedded site most of the tools supplied by manufacturers only run on Windows (some support Linux and even Mac OS, but most don't).

      The GP is probably right, it's all the web developers who hang out on Stack Overflow trying to figure out how to write tricky CSS or stop the user controlling their browser that skew the numbers.

      --
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      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re: for some definition of "developer" by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      OSX is BSD with a pretty face.

      With drivers that actually work, for everything. If I billed myself my normal hourly rate for what it's taken to get linux drivers working for a lot of my machines I'm at the cost of a Mac anyway.

  4. duh by bananaquackmoo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hint: OSX runs is BSD based and runs a terminal.

    1. Re:duh by Moridineas · · Score: 4, Informative

      Hilarious post.

      SystemStarter came from Next (afaik--or at least the crazy earliest versions of OS X) and has been deprecated for something like 12 years (it was started by init, btw). The current initial/cron/systemd type daemon is launchd. Did I mention that launchd is open source and has been ported to FreeBSD? I dont know a ton about systemd, but it seems similar—if more expansive—than launchd.

      If you don't like the BSD-style utilities, you can always install gnu versions. See brew, macports, etc.

      Darwin is open source.

    2. Re:duh by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm a developer. I do not want to be the sysadmin for my own machine. It wastes too much of my time. Now granted I do have to do it from time to time on my Mac at work, but it's far simpler than trying to deal with fixing problems in Linux. I used to be a Unix sysadmin, later I used Linux a lot, but these days Linux is just too complicated. Even worse if you have xubuntu or kubuntu so that all of the web searches only give you solutions that work for ubuntu.

      And you can get Mac Ports to put other tools on the Mac easily.

      If you're forced to have an enterprise machine by the corporate ideology, would you want Windows with a slow and clumsy Cygwin or a native Unix that can run native tools? No, the enterprise people probably won't let you have Linux unless it's a second machine.

  5. because you can still run linux by johnrpenner · · Score: 4, Informative

    mac hardware lets you run all three major OS's (osx + windows + linux) on a single piece of hardware.

    also — you get all the commandline UNIX-y goodness + the ability to run Microsoft Word + the ability to run Adobe Photoshop right beside your terminal window.

    and it never stops running for some arcane reason after a pkg update.

    1. Re:because you can still run linux by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 2

      One thing that I really like about Mac OS (though I don't know if the other ones support now since it's been a while since I've had to use them) is that you can move files around and the applications still are able to find them.

      For example say I get some new MP3s. I don't want them in my Library folder yet since I don't know if I want to keep them so I have a folder that isn't backed up where I shove temporary stuff. I'll put the files there and import them into iTunes. When in iTunes I'll listen to the songs and if I really like them I'll buy them. If I just like the songs enough to keep them then I'll change the information on the songs to how I like them (consistent numbering, add album cover, etc). In the Finder I can then drag the songs over to my Library folder so they get included with my backups. But iTunes doesn't need to be updated. I can still double click on one of those songs and it will play even though I moved it. The same thing applies if I rename a file or one of the folders that it happens to be in. And I can do this while the iTunes is playing the song without any problems at all.

      I haven't touched Windows since Windows 7 so I don't know if it has changed but I know that it couldn't do that before. Once you get used to making those changes it's hard to go back.

    2. Re: because you can still run linux by ljw1004 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And on a mac laptop, sleep and hibernate and resume always work.

    3. Re:because you can still run linux by afidel · · Score: 5, Interesting

      and it never stops running for some arcane reason after a pkg update.
      No, just wireless, or CIFS, or some other subsystem breaks or performance goes to shit. I was amazed at how many issues the 15 OSX users at my last company managed to encounter (I was the datacenter manager but I got pulled in as senior troubleshooter since we were only a 40 person IT shop). I'm now at a global 5,000 person firm and we have hundreds of OSX users and they definitely create more than their share of tickets, not sure if that's a result of the OS or the userbase but frankly it doesn't matter to me as it still results in more work for me per supported user. I think OSX is an OK OS and have taken on a Macbook Air as my work laptop, partly because it's light and partly to make myself more familiar with OSX so I can better support my users, but people who think OSX is some magical panacea are delusional, it's still a complex OS written by human programmers so it's still going to have its share of bugs.

      --
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    4. Re:because you can still run linux by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Windows is... unsuitable for hardcore development.

      Honestly, this entire thread has mostly devolved into holy war rhetoric. Any three of the major desktop OSes work just fine for development work. Some are better at specific development tasks than others, largely depending on what type of software you're writing.

      Deploying software to Linux-based servers or prefer using traditional OSS tools? Yeah, naturally Linux is probably the way to go, with OS X as a reasonable alternative. iOS development - OS X is nearly a requirement unless you're doing Xamarin or another x-platfrom system - although Windows is now rolling out pretty decent alternative-OS dev support for iOS and Android now too. Native client-side development, or perhaps a C# project? Yeah, you might want to use Visual Studio and Windows. Web development - yeah, probably doesn't matter quite as much... just depends on where your preferred tools are. Game developer? There's not even a question: you're going to be using Windows as your primary development platform.

      When people try to tell me that a particular OS isn't a suitable development platform, I have to roll my eyes a bit (sorry), because obviously they mean "for the specific type of work I do", and they may not even realize it.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    5. Re:because you can still run linux by blindseer · · Score: 2

      "Why anybody would pay extra for Apple hardware to run OSX is a mystery."

      I remember a conversation with some co-workers after a very public announcement of the latest Apple laptop. They were scoffing at it's lack of I/O ports, small screen, high price, or whatever. So I began to ask them some questions, such as how many computers they own, how often they actually use the ports they claim they need, how often they actually carry their laptop from their home. I was able to show them that they simply were not the demographic for which these computers were built.

      I often wonder why people would pay extra to buy hardware that runs Windows when Linux machines can be obtained for less. Then I remember that conversation I had. People will pay extra for things that they value. That Apple laptop I bought (with taxpayer money, BTW, but that's another story) was because it was the most powerful laptop I could buy within budget, and also happened to be the lightest. Some people pay extra for Windows because they value the familiarity of the interface, or what ever else Windows might bring.

      Perhaps you lack the imagination to see what others might value in a computer. Also this....

      "Well, not a mystery, just like it's not really a mystery why people become Scientologists."

      just shows you are not only ignorant but also a prick. Grow up.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  6. Why is this news? by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

    Apple forces people to use OSX for development.. so I'm kind of surprised this is news. Good on Linux that this is even something to talk about.

    Personally, I develop the full application stack and I use OSX for iOS and Linux for everything else. I'm not really sure why Linux feels more efficient, maybe because I grew up with windows.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  7. Re:Shit sample size = shit study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    56K is actually a good size for the survey. The rule of thumb is that if you want to compute relatively accurate statistics from a population of size N, then you should sample a representative subset of N**0.5. The only caveat is that the sampling method should try to avoid biasing.

    At 56 million coders that's about N = 2**26, N**0.5 = 2**13 = 8192. So a survey size of 56K is about 7 times overkill, but it doesn't hurt to have more than necessary.

  8. Move along, nothing to see here... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

    When I did a PC refresh project at a Fortune 500 to replace older Dell workstations with newer Dell workstations, the engineers didn't want a Dell workstation and asked for a MacBook Pro instead. Drove the project manager from Dell up the wall whenever someone made that request.

  9. Duh MacOSX/IOS compatibility by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

    If you need to test a website or write a mobile app only a Mac is allowed by VMware to run all the platforms. So get a Mac and virtualize all. Get Windows or Linux and you miss out on IOS and MacOSX.

    This will probably be the nail for Visual Studio until someone or MS sues. Remember the patch for VMWare Fusion/ Workstation where they forget to turn off the chock_nonApple()? They quickly patched that

  10. Multi-frigging-monitors by iamacat · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you are making money on your development skills, having dual 30 inch displays helps to boost your productivity a bit permanently while only requiring a small investment from you or your employer every several years. OSX supports these setups perfectly by letting you configure arrangement of the monitors and their exact physical layout on the desk, and has a menu bar and dock on every screen, plus multiple monitors can be connected through a single Thunderbolt cable. Windows and Linux don't. If you want power user / developer mindshare this is a must.

    1. Re:Multi-frigging-monitors by flyingfsck · · Score: 2

      Yup, gotta agree on the KDE comment. Other Desktops do support multiple monitors but the only one that does so easily and reliably is KDE. I can walk into a meeting, plug in the projector, open the laptop and it works. Slam the lid, go back to my desk, open it, and it still works. Plug in another screen and it just keeps working.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  11. This Explains the shoddy software being released by chaos4u · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So this is the reason why software has become less intuitive less user friendly and less functional.

    Because developers have crippled them selves with the same broken base that is mac osx.

    where the design mantra is "why do you need that?"

    and thus all the software that trickles out form these devs reinforce the ideology of why do you need that? do it this way instead.

    and if that way dont work for you will tough apple turtle shell pie for you baby, because it only this way or be abandoned and find your on way (good luck with that)

    because there not going to be bothered coding in a functional right click menu or a edit button that performs actual functions.

    because why do you need it ?? use the wizard click next and you have oooo perty you dont need to tweak the settings to create something different

    besides think different was soooo 1990s and now its actually Dont Think, Dont Create, Don't Do Anything because your expected to be a sheep BAAAAAAA BAAAAA go consume content you freaking sheep

    let your media overlords and their barely paid overseas content creation slaves make more content for you to devour... BAAAA BAAAAAAAA

    do as they do not as you do .

    --
    Music the Paint dancefloor the canvas your body the brush
  12. Ummmm, no you have it wrong by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The GP didn't say they weren't developers, just that they didn't do a good job representing developers as a whole. The claims is that more developers develop on something, the GP points out that it is really more of a particular subset. His opinion is also that the subset in question isn't likely very good.

    It's not a "No true Scotsman," fallacy to say that a subgroup isn't representative of the whole group. For example if you said "All Scottish people are drunks, I mean just look at all of them in this bar," it would not be a fallacy for someone to say "You are in a bar, the people here do not represent all the people in Scotland, this is a small subgroup."

    Further, something like a developer isn't just an arbitrary label. You aren't a developer just because you say you are any more than you are astronaut or a plumber or the like. Someone that fucks around with a tiny bit of JS coding a bit in their free time isn't a developer, just like someone who once changed the drain trap on their sink is a plumber. When you talk about professions, there is the idea that you do it, well, professionally.

  13. real UNIX with full corporate support in the enter by raymorris · · Score: 3, Informative

    OS X is the UNIX that large organizations support their employees using. And btw it's nothing like iOS.

    I used Linux exclusively for about 12 years. I'm even named in the Linux kernel changelog, so you could say I've long been a fan of Linux. When sold my business and took a 9-5 job with a big organization, I was offered a choice - Windows or OS X. The corporate helpdesk, the active directory services, etc didn't do Linux. Knowing that OS X is UNIX (certified UNIX, POSIX, single UNIX), I chose OS X over Windows.
    I don't buy Apple's mobile devices, and didn't much care for the iPad my boss handed me, but that's iOS. Time for me to try OS X.

    I was surprised to find that for day-to-day use, OS X is almost exactly like Linux, on a quality machine, with few to no annoyances. It just works. I can download and compile all my favorite FOSS software the same way I always have - ./configure; make; make install. It's just like a well-polished Linux distribution, and it integrates seamlessly with the corporate network.

    System administration is a little different, but I haven't needed to do much system administration on my Macs, they just work.

    If you like Linux or BSD and you're in an organization that includes Windows desktops, Active Directory, etc, a Mac is a very good fit. Don't let any negative experience with iOS fool you, OS X on a Mac Pro is a powerful UNIX system, and the hardware is well made. (The hardware isn't anything magical, but it's well designed, solid construction, and good performance) .

  14. Re:This Explains the shoddy software being release by Darinbob · · Score: 2

    OSX may be broken, but it can still limp along when Windows is twitching in a ditch and being left behind. Seriously, worst UIs in the world all come from Microsoft. People were using Unix to develop before Gates wrote his first BASIC.

  15. Say What Now? by bjwest · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Stack Overflow reports that more developers now use OS X than Linux as their primary OS, and that if the trend continues, fewer than half of all developers will be using Windows next year.

    Someone care to enlighten me on the logic here? Where does Windows usage become involved in the OS X vs Linux equation. Or, if they're trying to say people are jumping ship from Win to OS X, why mention Linux at all? Either way, there's one too many OS's mentioned in TFS. Didn't read TFA, because TFS does not compute.

    --

    --- Keep the choice with the user..
  16. Re:Shit sample size = shit study by flopsquad · · Score: 2

    The rule of thumb is you can beat your wife as long as the stick you use is no bigger than your thumb.

    While plenty of commentators have denounced such a rule (including at least two 19th century American judges), it does not appear the rule itself has ever actually existed.

    This "regulated spousal abuse" is found nowhere in English (and thus also American) common law. Using any kind of switch, thumb-width or otherwise, to "correct" one's wife has been illegal in the US since at least the Colonial era.

    Not to say abuse didn't occur, but there was no rule on the books about it being OK as long as it was carried out with a thin enough implement.

    OTOH, the "approximation" sense of the phrase has been in use for many centuries.

    --
    Nothing posted to /. has ever been legal advice, including this.